andypugh that works too :)
really they make this paste that breaks down solder strength
you put it on flow it in and it breaks the joint
Mercury? That would eork..
I donno what it is just its a paste or flux or something you put on the joint work in and parts pop off
somehow it breaks the joint
I can see that, probably another metal that makes a very brittle alloy with tin/lead
something like that yeah
boards usually most $ of a circuit so anything to preserve the board
Straightforward enough metallurgy
a point hard to drive home to some people
they think the part
and it is like no the board is the most important part!
screw the parts!
yeah in rework you have to be a real butcher sometimes
Hmm, query from me related to a query from my sister. What is the right surface speed for silver or gold?
I try to teach the one lead iseasier method
She wants me to machine a 1" silver ball and a 1" gold heart.
heh that is a good one
go with like a brass speed and take it from there
surface speeds are dependant on machine and work so it all just general
andypugh te real question is how you'll pan your machine :)
I mean gold and silver!
can't just sweep that into the dustbin
No, I think I would be posting the swarf back along with the parts
ah yeah still it can be challenging to catch everything
I find heavy aluminum foil helpful in some setups
shop I used to work in we'd turn big centers and this one guy he had a thing for making the biggest chip he could
one day he was down a hallway with one with a big grin on his face
Well, silver is relatively cheap. Gold less so, and only going up. Gold production is on the downwards slope
I swear this chip was over 100 feet long!
still even silver can't just round file it
Potentially dangerous that
yeah he did it with a hook
he was no dummy
Having lost his hand? Was he a pirate?
no he held the hook good one though
[00:10:16] <andypugh> http://www.atp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/BarbedWire.jpg
Might explain why my sister wants me to machine precious metals, she is a manufacturing jeweller
but yes that was my point some chips can be lethal and would tear up an aluminum foil setup
I suspect that gold would turn like lead. Badly.
andypugh heh ever read about how they invented barbed wire?
it is orange osage bush or something
Probably calls for super high-rake HSS tools
but during western expansion no one had time to grow the bushes
sure thats not just bent wire?
instead of heated tweezers, use a hot air nozzle (small one!) and a regular tweezer
ds3 yeah there are tons of rework tools
Heard of The Great Wall of China?
[00:13:00] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hedge_of_India
andypugh yeah i think the beginning of that predates barbed wire but a few years
but yeah for years people used prickly bushes
the guy who invented barbed wire got filthy rich!
he was in the right place at the right time with the right thing for sure
I am sure I have been in the right place at the right time. I have so far failed to come up with the right idea though.
andypugh you ain't the only one
andypugh I've had some great ideas just never the resources to make anything of them
Anyhow, Late here
I'm staying up for the Leonids
machine wax, cast the gold
millions of jewelers can't be wrong
yeah but they have those nice spin casters too
for a reason :-)
I was reading about my hero Henry Bessemer and him casting roses
andyou could see the veins in the pedals
he was casting in iron of course
man what I wouldn't give to possess that casting!
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-11-17.txt
jst_home_ is now known as jst_home
vacuum casting removes bubbles too
and prevents oxidation, a bonus with alu
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/,
wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
anyone ever do a dual boot emc machine with another linux install? I have a second hard drive I'm putting it on
depending on which boot loader u use, it should be a piece of cake to make it dual boot
livid is now known as alxm
tom3p: I'm baffled by this gwiz program. I ran it under the PDB debugger and it found a couple of indentation errors ?? I corrected those and ran it again with the debugger, it looks like it runs but the screen never pops up. If I run it from the terminal it says segmentation error??
I did get a reply from Ken >>Sorry I can't really help. :-(
OK, I found the line that is causing the segmentation error ....
anyonw know of NEMA size 23 DC brush servos?
I assume you already have the driver, or you wouldn't be so specific about it being brush motors?
I'm just scared of brushless :)
brushes scare me
well if there are economic brushless drives
I use stepper motors
man those new current sense resistors I got I threw them in a driver today they're hawt!
I switched to servos, and I'm not going back to steppers.
really smoothed out my drive
I can't decide whether http://www.dmm-tech.com/index.html
are Nema23 or not
I can't read the webpage
they should fire the 13 year old that does their web design :)
Looking at it, they are about Nema23 size, but the spigot is shown as 50mm not 37mm
awallin hard to tell but from the pictures and the scale of everything it looks like double stack 23 to me
the shaft looks a bit big on them though
they giving you one meaty shaft I'm sure :)
if I got small dc brush motors I could think about building a H-bridge drive myself
How about the model aircraft motors?
(I don't know if they can be reversed)
yeah next driver I build will be a bipolar H for a 34 stepper I have
an Astrosyn L297
thing looks like it could jack up a car to me
awallin what kind of a machine are you running?
right now a mill with m5i20 interface card, jon elson pwm amps, and dc brush servos
I'm now making plans for a lathe.
awallin bed swing?
you mean the lathe X-axis, about 150mm
maybe you could fit a 200mm diam part there, I don't know
its this half-way built project
[22:00:17] <awallin> http://www.loisteputki.liitin.net/TLP/sorvimyytavana3.jpg
[22:00:25] <awallin> http://www.loisteputki.liitin.net/TLP/sorvimyytavana2.jpg
I meant what bed length and what over bed height to spindle
awallin is that a weld fillet?
the frame and the spindle box are DIY from steel plates
the ATC is not ready yet
oh yes now I'm seeing more welds
there's a long thread on cnczone with the details of the build
anymore building machines I just bolt everything together makes for less of a mess to deal with when i want to modify
plus welding can lead to distortions
but now the guy got a 1990 japanese pro cnc-lathe and is running his own business, no time to build this small lathe to completion...
Is that a concrete bed? (And if not, I wonder how well one would work?)
it's all steel
andypugh its been done
awallin: lol i know they guy that has made it
the lathe you're talking about
ok, cool, I went there today for a visit. everything looked OK, lot's to do ofcourse to complete it
Aye, I am fairly sure the big horizontal borer at David Brown's is effectively a concrete bed. the headstock. tailstock and table are bolted seperately to the concrete floor.
andypugh pouring a concrete base for my mill has crossed my mind more than once
pretty much everytime chatter breaks an endmill the thought comes up :)
(When I say big, I mean BIG. You could bore a small house on it.
celeron55: you know any other reasons why the lathe-build was abandoned?
pfred1, use a dti, see where your flex is
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
archivist_emc oh it is only an RF-32 so it is flexing everywhere
a glorified drill press
awallin: i think it was just because of lack of time and interest
column stiffening is worth some effort
archivist_emc but i made the base out of 3" heavy channel and it could be sturdier
here's a 15-page thread about that lathe-build: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27031
its interesting what I wonder is how they aligned the headstock to the ways
the base was milled flat in one setup on a large mill I think. both the surfaces under the z-rails and under the spindle-box
ah having a large mill explains much
I hope it was ground afterwards
awallin: btw, i'm also the designer of the t-työstö logo :P
celeron55: OK. I visited his shop also where he has the big cnc-lathe and 2-3 manual machines. building parts for Porches...
tried to sell me his Porche also
porsche thats what a Volkswagon with an oil cooler and leather interior?
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
I was going to go try to get the mill running, got side-tracked making a guitar with my son.
eric_unterhausen making the neck?
no, I bought the neck
I have made necks though
this is a long-abandoned project, I though he might like to help finish it
like was the necks you made fretted
I always thought that was like brain surgery fretting
it really isn't that hard
well I never tried it just read about it
most guitars are made with templates though
read enough to decide never to try
I've only done it freehand
the best things i make are usually template projects
you can be pretty rough on a template and tune it up and whatnot then the final run comes out smooth
well making a neck I must say I am impressed good job!
like did your neck have a truss rod?
what'd you use for the fingerboard and did you inlay it?
I used bubinga, no inlays
yeah I've read various tricks to inlay
inlaying is fun, just didn't do it
seens some poor executions of it too
I have pearl dots
I'd imagine dot inlay is pretty simplistic
drill and stuff
right, dots are standard, can get a drill bit that fits perfectly
I've done some marquetry -- inlay with wood
still and all shaping the neck and stuff pretty ambitious
that was fun
heck just getting the head backset would need a nice bandsaw I'd imagine
blame gibson -- I had one of their guitars that broke and they wouldn't fix it
neck making must be much akin to carving
I have a Gibson Special myself
if it ever broke I'm pretty sure I'd cry
the only question is for how long?
they went through some bad times in the '70s and early '80s
mine is an early 70s
I had some no name guitar i broke the neck on
my gibson acoustic was the biggest piece of junk ever produced by them
rock and roll
now they are making great acoustics
Gibson typically is a brand associated with the highest quality
so your junky one might just be very collectible
if it wasn't too popular and was only limited production
Gibsons worth the most of mass market instruments
I've thought about that, but it's a horrible reason to be collectible
I think they made tons of them anyway
rarity associated with a name
is the best reason to be collectible
who cares what it actually is?
anyhow you soune to me like you're a skilled wood craftsman
I've done a fair bit of woodworking myself and I've always felt making a neck was beyond my capabilities
it'd be an interesting challenge bragging rights if it came out good
I think a lot of them have been made using a spindle sander
I'd probably tackle the shaped parts with a spokeshave
if I ever set out to do it
rough with draw knives
yeah I'm a blade man
you can rough out the fret board with a hand plane
I'd do the mate part on the bottom on my mill
you know the shape that goes int othe body?
I'm sure it has a name but I don't know it
that seems to be a critical aspect of the part
traditionally a dovetail, but now it's usually just a rectangular tab
hmm I've usually seen radiused shapes
almost all acoustics now have bolt on necks
well you still need the neck to key to the body
Gibsons are glued well mine is
I wish it wasn't
you have an electric?
Yes An SG Special
yeah, I think that probably has to be glued
oh you're making acoustics?
most electrics are screwed
Gbsons are the oddball gluing
acoustic is what I like to build, but I'm making an electric with my son
yeah OK I was going to say
like mad luther skills!
yes one of those
luthiers practice lutherie
yeah you don't usually meet people making acoustics
luthiery I know some about!
I've been trying to talk my son into building an acoustic, maybe I should work on my daughter
lots of specialized tools there
planes the size of your thumbnail and whatnot
I've done a good bit of guitar repair, but I built banjos for several years.
mozmck from what I've read it seems banjos are a unique subest buildwise
I have an acoustic guitar I'm supposed to be building.
but the neck is marginally more difficult
They are different. I use a metal lathe to turn the wood rim and resonator. I mostly built reproduction necks for folks.
i.e. not all banjo body building translates to other musical instrument making
mozmck hehe nice!
that's right. you don't have to worry as much about tuning air chamber.
turning wood on a metal lathe
I had temporary insanity and wanted to build a banjo, but I got over it
mozmck do you use a live tool? like a rotary cutter?
I still want to build a resonator guitar though
nope, just a hand ground bit like I would use for metal. have to keep it very sharp though.
I fancied building a Hurdy-Gurdy, but the idea has receded to the back of my list.
mozmck I saw this one guy had this massive i mean hue lathe and he was making large wooden bowls on it
eric, me too. I have the forms to build one, but haven't done it yet. I've started a couple mandolins as well.
andypugh, I saw one of those yesterday and was intrigued
mozmck and he said the turning tools on the wall were just there for show now he did all his work slow turned with a router
mozmck like super slow RPM the lathe just held the part
mozmck, I tried to build a mando, but I got stuck on carving the plates
interesting. that would certainly take the wood off faster.
mozmck he could work more delicate wood too
oh his crap was impeccible he was pro
I should give the plates to my sister, she paints old violins
a banjo rim has to be fit to the metal parts pretty closely and would very difficult to do well with a wood lathe.
he was doing sutff no way you could do it traditional turning
we spent most of the afternoon making a router template for the pickups
too bad my mill isn't working yet
pfed1: that's neat. I made a jig to cut the radius (42") on the banjo resonator on the metal lathe.
mozmck yeah wood isnt metal you can get away with some different things with it
eric_unterhausen what you make your template out of?
a swing arm that mounted in the tailpiece and another that mounts on the back of the spindle and comes around the front
eric_unterhausen you rich I just use hardboard for templates if not a scrap of thin plywood
it was sitting around
eric_unterhausen yeah I'd have left it sit for a better project ;)
but I haven't found the polycarbonate from lowes to be all that expensive
eric_unterhausen it can't be as cheap as hardboard is see through though so that is worth something
eric, the plates on a mando do seem a challenge, but I've found that a lot of things aren't as bad as they seem once you get started.
mozmck, I made the typical beginner's mistake and carved them too thin
mozmck yes it is that starting that many of us don't get to
they say that's the most common error
I did some heel carving and pearl engraving on several necks
guy asked me if I could do it and I said I thought I could :)
I was also trying to make the top out of lumberyard spruce, it's not hard enough
never had before, but they turned out good.
eric_unterhausen you have the double thickness calipers?
eric_unterhausen you know he type you clamp on the work read the other side?
i figured I could fake it on something that small
yeah. I bought some spruce from a guy that sells it just for mandos and violins.
heh gotta deal with the eskimos
I think I have red spruce - can't remember
for my talent level, I figured I'd get some off of ebay
I read some article about eskimos clear cutting for musical instruments
seems like it was only $15 or $20 for a really nice set.
I doubt they have to clear cut
no that is just how they do it
I'm sure they're in no danger of running out of trees
I think their biggest problem is accessibility and labor force
don't tell the tree huggers, they might run out of stuff to fuss about!
well yes that was the slant of the article i read but come on we got trees
we're not about ot run out any time too soon
I've been where logging goes on and let me tell you you can't cut trees down fast enough
I've heard there more trees now than there were 200 years ago. Don't know that for sure though.
they do grow back quickly.
mozmck bigger trees take up more room
so yes that is one of those deceptive stats
by weight we may in fact have less but still no worries
political more than anything I think...
by nature overages forests are meant to burn
if you can't get to them in time to cut them down
least that is what happens
and forest over 70 years old is just a fire hazard
ancient indians knew this
heh, yeah they have figured out that stopping cutting and burning causes all kinds of problems.
the'd regularly burn the forests
because if you don't then look out!
our forest policy is lunacy
I have heard the forest service does this now some.
well they don't do near enough
Hmm, I suspect that forest over 70 years old isn't a fire hazard in places with rain
zero burn policy is a fail
andypugh the fuel keeps piling up eventually it goes
We have forests with trees 500 years old that seem to have not burned.
the thing is a heavily fueled forest fire is powerful
andypugh well that is the thing there are forest fires then there are FOREST fires
andypugh, from what I've read the underbrush can burn without harming the trees
andypugh a tree can live through a mild fire
[23:55:09] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherwood_Forest
but if you have a runaway it destroys everything
There is at least one tree 1000 years old.
we got trees 6,600 years old here
And I honestly can't remeber the last time there were reports of a forest fire in the UK
well we get them here
millions of acres a year
actually england burnt their forests during the irst industrial revolution
charcoal for iron production
Yes, I know you do. I was arguing with the applicability of your blanket statement.
that or ship rigging
Aye, we burned a lot of it, and cut the rest down for ships.
that is what I've read
But that which remains seems to be fairly non-flammable
once England was one huge forest
yeah aybe your orests aren't as connected?
helps you with the law of averages
spreads out the risk
Nah, that's not true. Agricola said that it was, but if you have seen the countryside in Italy you would see that it only looks that way.
here forests can be in 3 different states
(to a roman)
well we have a serious problem with forest fires