#emc | Logs for 2009-11-04

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[00:00:25] <Bluntz_> I bet a laser could be used
[00:00:40] <andypugh> No, I touch-off there the same. Normally I just park the tool tip to the right of the work and measure the gap with the calipers.
[00:01:22] <andypugh> You could use a G38 probe command and a touch sensor tool.
[00:01:38] <Bluntz_> kewl autosense
[00:01:53] <Bluntz_> yea thats what I wanna build
[00:02:53] <andypugh> I thik (though I haven't tried it) that you could write a custom G-code that combined a G38 probe with a G10 L2 P(whatever) to do it all automagically.
[00:03:26] <Bluntz_> not me
[00:03:29] <Bluntz_> haha
[00:03:51] <Bluntz_> I can sure snap bits tho
[00:04:04] <andypugh> Well, I did that this evening.
[00:04:52] <Bluntz_> what is your mill andy a lathe?
[00:05:04] <andypugh> Both.
[00:05:09] <Bluntz_> ahh sweet
[00:05:46] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/user/blyndpew#p/a/u/1/95B8PDlnajk
[00:09:30] <Bluntz_> thats so kool
[00:10:11] <andypugh> If I was doing it again I would start with something higher-quality and second-hand
[00:10:46] <Bluntz_> did you build it all?
[00:11:08] <andypugh> No, I bought most of it.
[00:11:31] <andypugh> It was a manual combination machine that I retrofitted for CNC
[00:11:48] <jt-plasma> I wish Peter was here
[00:11:55] <Guest746> hello: I'm trying to run latency test using the linuxcnc 8.04 live cd (not installing) and get the attached error message: (is there any way to make emc2 work on my hardware?)
[00:12:04] <Bluntz_> ok that explains the accuracy
[00:12:24] <andypugh> http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/CX23A-750_Multi-Purpose_Lathe_Milling_Machine.html
[00:12:34] <andypugh> Is the original manual machine
[00:12:56] <andypugh> (Though I paid a fair deal less than that)
[00:12:59] <Bluntz_> I havnt found a cross slide vise worth buying yet
[00:13:54] <Bluntz_> and I was thinking of doing just what youve done
[00:14:09] <Bluntz_> looking for an older mill
[00:14:23] <Bluntz_> maybe a bridgeport
[00:14:38] <andypugh> I bought quite a nice one on eBay, but find myself mainly using that rather nasty one in the video. (Though it is much improved with a better retaining plate and a bit of judicous slide-scraping)
[00:14:45] <archivist_emc> old bridgeport cnc :)
[00:15:06] <Bluntz_> hehe
[00:15:08] <Valen> what RPM is the spindle running at?
[00:15:34] <jt-plasma> like archivist_emc said get the goodies with your mill
[00:15:43] <Valen> you might get better tracking if you take the handle off the spindle drive too
[00:15:43] <andypugh> In the video? Probably too slow for the drill bits, and the feed could have been a lot quicker too.
[00:16:47] <andypugh> I tried removing the handles and it made no difference (except that I then couldn't move them by hand)
[00:17:00] <Valen> interesting
[00:17:03] <archivist_emc> guest use a pastebin
[00:17:13] <andypugh> Guest746: www.pastebin.ca
[00:20:03] <andypugh> Guest746: You can paste your error message there and then we can see it. Pasting more than a few lines here directly gets you booted by the server.
[00:20:31] <Guest746> <param name="nick" value="anleu1??"
[00:25:26] <Guest746> hello everyone, I tried installing 8.04 with emc2 from the linuxcnc live cd; but cannot get emc to run.
[00:26:15] <andypugh> Can you get it to run if booted from the CD?
[00:26:28] <Valen> define "cannot get emc to run"
[00:27:13] <Guest746> when using the cd as live cd, i run latency-test from the terminal I get the following error list http://pastebin.ca/1655751
[00:28:11] <Guest746> is there any way to get emc running with my hardware configuration?
[00:29:23] <Bluntz_> axis runs better on my geforce than my ati
[00:31:43] <andypugh> Guest746: Booting off the CD it really ought to Just Work
[00:32:30] <celeron55> that looks like you're not running the realtime kernel
[00:32:42] <celeron55> i think
[00:34:08] <Guest746> I mean I get error messages when I try runningn emc2 from the menu; I can paste that error list too
[00:34:31] <andypugh> You will get errors, you are not running the right kernel
[00:34:58] <andypugh> Boot from CD and it should work
[00:35:08] <Guest746> how can I fix that? i tough the live cd had the right kernel!
[00:35:33] <celeron55> so you just booted it with all the default settings?
[00:36:00] <Guest746> yes
[00:36:36] <Guest746> I booted from the cd
[00:36:38] <andypugh> What does uname -r say?
[00:37:02] <andypugh> (I think that is the command to list the kernel version)
[00:38:47] <Guest746> I had to change hard drives and boot into windows to enter this; but I'm writing this now
[00:39:50] <andypugh> You should be able to IRC from inside Ubuntu
[00:40:14] <Guest746> I get a random case of keyboard quiting on me, thats another issue
[00:41:06] <Guest746> so andypugh, you mean typing "myname -r"?
[00:41:20] <andypugh> Actually, you probably have got the right kernel, but the realtime kernel modules are not loading
[00:41:42] <andypugh> No, the command is "uname -r"
[00:41:58] <Guest746> on system monitor it shows the kernel as "2.6.24-16 rtai"
[00:42:06] <andypugh> OK, that is correct
[00:42:52] <andypugh> I think the problem is the segmentation fault when it tries to load the kernel module
[00:43:26] <Guest746> I guess rtai is not compatible with my hardware then?
[00:44:15] <andypugh> What is your hardware?
[00:45:26] <Guest746> athlon 64 3500+, 1gig pc3200 ram, ide drives, ps2 keyboard/mouse, nvidia geforce 5500, soundblaster pci card, generic pci modem board
[00:46:00] <celeron55> type "dmesg" in a terminal
[00:46:35] <celeron55> it should give some related info somewhere at the bottom
[00:46:56] <Guest746> i will once I get back to linux, what should I look for?
[00:47:02] <andypugh> Read this..
[00:47:03] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Nvidia_Card_configuration_issues
[00:47:47] <celeron55> looks promising
[00:48:31] <celeron55> not so trivial when using the live-cd, though
[00:49:13] <andypugh> Yeah, I wouldn't have thought that they would put an incompatible driver on the Live-CD
[00:49:20] <Guest746> ok, thanks a lot for your help! I will change drives and try your suggestions
[00:49:40] <celeron55> you have to replace it in the file, and after that, restart the X server and after that unload the nvidia module... i guess
[00:50:06] <celeron55> which is "rmmod nvidia"
[00:50:30] <celeron55> and the X server should restart with ctrl+alt+backspace
[00:51:15] <celeron55> if not, umm... well, it probably will
[00:51:31] <Bluntz_> then startx
[00:51:54] <celeron55> well, it depends if it's configured to restart automatically
[00:52:09] <celeron55> also, some version of ubuntu has ctrl+alt+backspace disabled
[00:52:11] <Bluntz_> if u get dropped to cmd
[00:52:55] <celeron55> which means you'll have to kill it with "sudo killall Xorg" or something
[00:53:53] <celeron55> the other way to do it is to just install it on the hd and then doing what the page says (and rebooting the machine after that)
[00:53:57] <andypugh> I tried it on my liveCD installed VM and ctrl-alt-backspace restarted it.
[00:54:40] <Bluntz_> theres a few nvidia setup tools
[00:54:53] <Valen> celeron55 its later than that
[00:55:29] <Guest746> would that explain the problem I have with the keyboard quittin suddenly?
[00:55:37] <Bluntz_> I used envy in the past
[00:55:44] <andypugh> Right, the day I find myself trying to give linux advice is the day I am up too late. Goodnight.
[00:55:56] <Guest746> thanks a lot!!
[00:56:29] <Valen> lol
[00:57:05] <celeron55> so 1) edit 'Driver "nvidia"' to 'Driver "nv"' in /etc/X11/xorg.conf (as super-user), 2) ctrl+alt+backspace, 3) sudo rmmod nvidia
[00:58:56] <celeron55> (or nvidia->vesa)
[00:59:03] <Bluntz_> nv
[00:59:32] <Bluntz_> make sure it runs glxgears
[00:59:38] <celeron55> well, vesa will always work but is slow, nv is faster and works 99% of time :P
[00:59:49] <Valen> I wonder if he would be better served dropping to a console then modprobing rtai
[01:00:08] <Valen> he could at least see the fault then if is causing a panic of some kind
[01:00:29] <Valen> the nvidia binary driver typically causes latency spikes not non functional machines
[01:01:07] <skunkworks> don't ever get foam in a can on your fingers.
[01:02:42] <Valen> its not a good idea
[01:03:56] <Guest746> I will try all of this and get back to this channel with a report
[01:04:24] <Guest746> how do I get a name and not "Guest746"?
[01:04:25] <Valen> see if you can get on here from there
[01:04:31] <Valen> type /nick foo
[01:04:34] <tom3p> skunkworks: when sealing around door frames, dont get it in your hair!
[01:06:05] <skunkworks> eww - you win
[01:06:48] <skunkworks> I had to puncture the side of the can to get it to come out. hard getting the hole 'just right'
[01:06:56] <skunkworks> don't try this at home.
[01:07:53] <tom3p> no, you win
[01:08:32] <Bluntz_> lmao
[01:09:33] <Valen> lol that is not cool
[01:11:00] <Bluntz_> <skunkworks> I had to puncture the side of the can to get it to come out. hard getting the hole 'just right'...you might be a red if..
[01:11:27] <Bluntz_> hehe
[01:12:49] <skunkworks> well those stupid cans stop working if they are old - even though they have never been used.
[01:12:58] <Bluntz_> i have a 30 gallon kiln based around this entire princible
[01:17:21] <Bluntz_> I wanna try used cooking oil
[01:18:41] <tom3p> french fried raku
[01:18:59] <Bluntz_> I melt alum in it
[01:19:46] <tom3p> fenn does green casting, he's on here sometimes
[01:20:26] <tom3p> ive done lost wax, but thats tiny stuff
[01:20:26] <Bluntz_> kewl
[01:21:20] <tom3p> how is the kiln based on punctured foam cans?
[01:21:22] <Bluntz_> Im just makin bars and 1x4x16
[01:21:57] <Bluntz_> 30 gallon trashcan
[01:22:35] <Bluntz_> oh
[01:22:51] <Bluntz_> its fired by a puntured gas line
[01:23:25] <Bluntz_> pushed thru a short piece of tailpipe
[01:23:33] <Bluntz_> lmao
[01:24:10] <Bluntz_> brb
[01:24:25] <tom3p> trashcan and tail pipe stand up to temps that melt alum?
[01:24:34] <tom3p> bbl8r
[01:29:33] <Bluntz_> sure
[01:29:58] <Bluntz_> with 5 inches of mudliner
[01:30:44] <Bluntz_> perlite vermiculite and bentonite about 25 bucs at the nursery
[01:33:19] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:35:33] <Bluntz_> oh and some portland too, mix well..
[01:36:31] <Bluntz_> melts lawnmowers chainsaws that old lawn furnature from the 70's
[01:37:23] <Bluntz_> lighting is a lil tricky ..blows the lid off if you get too much charge
[01:40:01] <Bluntz_> fun at partys..0o
[01:44:29] <Valen> lol
[02:03:17] <Dave911> >>>its fired by a punctured gas line
[02:03:19] <Dave911> You're neighbors?? ;-)
[02:03:28] <Dave911> Cheap too?
[02:14:45] <Bluntz_> outrageously cheap
[02:18:48] <Bluntz_> bbq regulator with short piece of 3/8 copper line crimped and puntured
[02:19:47] <Bluntz_> first attempt failed to get the hole right...lmao
[02:22:38] <Bluntz_> I use an old hair drier pointed up the tailpipe to charge
[02:23:39] <Bluntz_> dont try this at home folks
[02:24:20] <Bluntz_> exploding 2000+ degree furnace liner is no joke
[02:26:17] <Bluntz_> now if I could control the foundry ops with emc that would be keen
[02:26:42] <Bluntz_> follow a part from cast to lathe
[02:28:18] <kanzure> Bluntz_: :)
[02:28:24] <Bluntz_> or even better use the melt in a feedline to
[02:28:34] <kanzure> Bluntz_: i would like that as well
[02:28:41] <Bluntz_> pour a part up
[02:28:47] <kanzure> for this reason i've been working on this project:
[02:28:53] <kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb
[02:29:05] <kanzure> not quite for "following" but rather generating the steps from cast to lathe and then some
[02:29:16] <kanzure> (practically the same thing if you're starting fresh)
[02:29:26] <Bluntz_> nice
[02:31:03] <Bluntz_> a molten metal printhead wood be problematic for sure
[02:35:18] <Bluntz_> ok how do I install it?
[02:42:56] <kanzure> Bluntz_: are you on linux?
[02:43:29] <Bluntz_> yup
[02:44:03] <Bluntz_> installed git
[02:44:50] <Bluntz_> 804 lts
[02:46:05] <kanzure> the main dependency of skdb is pythonocc, we have detailed instructions here: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc
[02:46:50] <kanzure> soon we will have a .deb or .egg or something but right now i'm willing to walk you through if you have any difficulties
[02:47:37] <tom3p> kanzure: is there an example widget that is specified/detailed/fulfilled by this system?
[02:47:59] <kanzure> tom3p: screws: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/screw/
[02:48:02] <kanzure> also legos
[02:48:11] <kanzure> legos: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/lego/
[02:48:51] <kanzure> if anyone knows how to make a helix in opencascade we can add parametric CAD models for screws but as it is OCC's helix function doesn't work
[02:51:50] <kanzure> making skdb dependent on OCC might have been a mistake :)
[02:52:28] <Bluntz_> you think?
[02:52:31] <Bluntz_> lol
[02:52:57] <Bluntz_> 1.5 gb build
[02:53:01] <Bluntz_> lmao
[02:53:03] <kanzure> i have this strong urge to just yank it out and write my own cad kernel.. but i know this will take a long time, and i am too eager
[02:53:54] <kanzure> Bluntz_: yeah pythonocc uses swig to generate all sorts of wrappers to occ. i think this is what takes up the bulk of that space. possibly also occ source code and other things that can be deleted.
[02:54:48] <tom3p> git clone git://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git skdb ???
[02:54:50] <Bluntz_> its a rather big investment for a beta
[02:54:53] <kanzure> tom3p: yep
[02:55:05] <kanzure> Bluntz_: skdb works without opencascade installed i think
[02:55:06] <tom3p> tom3p holds nose & jumps in
[02:55:14] <Bluntz_> hehe
[02:55:20] <kanzure> tom3p: if that doesn't work try git clone http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git master
[02:55:36] <kanzure> * kanzure doesn't remember if he configured the git protocol or not
[02:56:41] <tom3p> rats, this box aint got no git, installing that 1st
[02:57:13] <kanzure> does anyone here have any ISO, ASME, ASMUG, etc. standards/specs of machine elements? this would be immensely helpful
[02:57:54] <kanzure> i can't get a hold of ISO 10303-214 as it is, much less anyhing more useful than the machinery's handbook
[02:58:18] <tom3p> i'm not clear on the idea, but you're certainly touching the ideas of some technologyforthepeople groups and openmanufacturingflow stuff
[02:58:36] <kanzure> if you're on ubuntu, and you use apt-get, then you basically have the idea down.
[02:59:04] <kanzure> except i want to "apt-get" myself some hardware and have it show up in the shop
[02:59:10] <tom3p> yeh thats the xfer tool, but the knowledge base and its application isnt clear yet
[02:59:16] <kanzure> either through my physical excersions or others
[02:59:21] <kanzure> *others (like machines)
[02:59:29] <kanzure> well the application is figuring out how to build things
[02:59:42] <kanzure> when you start a project you're always wondering if you have this or that, or how you can approach doing x
[02:59:49] <kanzure> different routes for building the same thing. etc.
[03:00:32] <tom3p> well wherte does this come in... its easiest to make round metal stuff... where does 'smart' or 'craftsman' enter this?
[03:01:00] <tom3p> kids playinmg with cad, create stuff that cannot be built
[03:01:06] <kanzure> yeah that happens all the time
[03:01:15] <kanzure> so fenn put some thought into this.. i don't know why he's not in here
[03:01:26] <tom3p> they need some leadership/tutor/journeyman
[03:01:31] <kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/processes.yaml
[03:01:32] <kanzure> yes i agree
[03:01:46] <kanzure> but one idea in the mean time is to make a representation of what a machine can manufacture
[03:01:52] <kanzure> for instance, a band saw cannot be operated at 90 degrees
[03:01:58] <tom3p> good stuff, im interested
[03:02:00] <kanzure> also, bits have wear and tear
[03:02:21] <kanzure> ideally you should ask what you can build with your hardware already... but people want to randomly make stuff too
[03:02:24] <kanzure> like kids with their cad models
[03:02:43] <kanzure> soo the idea is to maybe use the "representation" of what you can manufacture
[03:02:51] <kanzure> and then see if you can get it close to what the input is
[03:02:57] <kanzure> if so, then you have a recipe/build-plan for making that part
[03:03:01] <kanzure> using only what you already have
[03:03:10] <tom3p> i was surprised by a post earlier from cradek, some buyblueprints site, it had plans for some mechanisms and jigs.
[03:03:15] <toastydeath_> cool
[03:03:48] <kanzure> this representation of what a machine can manufacture has been started in that processes.yaml file but there's more work to be done
[03:04:13] <tom3p> yaml is... yet another ???
[03:04:20] <kanzure> * kanzure nods.
[03:04:22] <tom3p> markup language
[03:04:28] <tom3p> ok some xml ish
[03:04:29] <kanzure> it's a simple language meant for human readability
[03:05:05] <kanzure> also meant for humans to edit by hand if they wanted to
[03:05:18] <kanzure> so just press enter and add a '?' or '-' to start a new item in a list, or do something else, etc.
[03:06:15] <Bluntz_> sweet
[03:08:43] <fenn> logger_emc: bookmark
[03:08:43] <fenn> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-11-04.txt
[03:14:23] <tom3p> git clone http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git skdb Initialized empty Git repository in /home/tomp/skdb/.git/ /usr/bin/git-clone: 374: curl: not found
[03:14:35] <kanzure> sudo apt-get install curl
[03:14:42] <kanzure> also since when does git depend on curl?
[03:15:30] <tom3p> working now
[03:16:08] <tom3p> whoa quite a few files
[03:17:38] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/1655943
[03:19:56] <skunkworks> I find the last part very hard to believe. sounds like xp would work better than linux ;)
[03:22:03] <SWPadnos> it might, under the right circumstances
[03:22:26] <SWPadnos> if it lets you more or less turn off multitasking, then it should be possible to make it work very well for your task
[03:23:47] <skunkworks> It is more likely that the os 'is' just the gui and motion is done on the external hardware.
[03:24:05] <SWPadnos> seems that way
[03:24:10] <skunkworks> atleast more beleivable
[03:24:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:24:32] <skunkworks> oh well - time for bed. Night
[03:24:44] <tom3p> kanzure: python ./packages/lego/demo.py ... ImportError: No module named skdb
[03:24:46] <SWPadnos> forget to switch the clocks back? :)
[03:25:01] <skunkworks> early day.. :)
[03:25:21] <kanzure> tom3p: you need to do something like this: export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/home/tomp/
[03:25:29] <kanzure> if skdb is still in /home/tomp/
[03:25:43] <ybit> almost gave away my alt nick
[03:25:53] <ybit> was *this close* saying what kanzure just said :)
[03:26:28] <kanzure> oh please, we all know it's akafubu
[03:26:34] <ybit> lol
[03:27:16] <ybit> last time i give you ssh access to the puters ;)
[03:28:01] <kanzure> it's the first nick i whois'd and you're in all the channels i'm in, so i figured it's you
[03:29:23] <kanzure> tom3p: that help?
[03:29:25] <tom3p> kanzure: export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/home/tomp/skdb/core python ./packages/lego/demo.py ImportError: No module named yaml are there more deps?
[03:29:48] <kanzure> tom3p: yes, sorry. sudo apt-get install python-yaml
[03:29:55] <kanzure> hm.. why don't we have a list of dependencies.
[03:30:23] <tom3p> yaml aint a package as far as apt-get thinks
[03:30:37] <kanzure> sudo easy_install pyyaml
[03:31:19] <tom3p> yeah, after sudo apt-get install easy-install maybe
[03:31:34] <kanzure> i kinda assumed it came with python
[03:31:55] <kanzure> also you'll need python-igraph or python-cgraph. i forget which one it's called.
[03:32:02] <kanzure> god this sucks. i'm so sorry
[03:32:39] <tom3p> easy-install isnt a pkg either... np, i'll just watch the site, the packaging will get sorted
[03:32:52] <kanzure> it's python setuptools
[03:33:04] <kanzure> apt-cache search setuptool
[03:33:32] <kanzure> anyway, yeah, btw i can be motivated to fix all this faster if you yell at me about this on a frequent basis :p
[03:34:04] <ybit> i thought i had written down python-yaml somewhere as a dep.
[03:36:27] <tom3p> hahah i installed all those suggested, by apt-cache search, and easy-install aint in there, sorry, im buggerin up my system, gonna clean it before i loose track of all the crap thats been gotten
[03:36:58] <tom3p> i'll just monitor the site for now
[03:37:15] <kanzure> easy_install is in python-setuptools. but anyway, yeah. sorry this didn't work out
[03:37:22] <kanzure> it'll be resolved soon :)
[03:40:19] <tom3p> python-setuptools is already the newest version easy-install isnt in there
[03:40:31] <tom3p> just fyi
[03:40:36] <kanzure> O.o
[03:40:55] <tom3p> you'll get it
[03:40:59] <kanzure> kanzure@pikachu:~$ apt-file search easy_install
[03:40:59] <kanzure> python-setuptools: /usr/bin/easy_install
[03:41:25] <kanzure> version: Version: 0.6c9-2
[03:41:35] <kanzure> what about you? version is shown with apt-cache show python-setuptools
[03:42:21] <tom3p> hahahaha apt-file not found.... noooooooooooooO!!!! not for me
[03:42:52] <kanzure> sudo apt-get install apt-file; sudo apt-file update
[03:42:54] <tom3p> already cleaning up, no mas!
[03:42:54] <kanzure> apt-file is really really nifty
[07:01:39] <toastydeath_> toastydeath_ is now known as toastydeath
[07:34:52] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[07:59:13] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[10:45:27] <piasdom_> g'mornin all
[12:59:17] <Valen> could I use HAL to basically run a servo loop with python providing the motion targets?
[12:59:53] <Valen> think basically of replacing gcode with some other doovey that'd provide motion targets at ~100-200hz or so
[13:00:05] <Valen> then have HAL try to hit those targets?
[13:00:09] <Valen> or am I way off base
[13:08:15] <micges_work> Valen: you can do this but I can't tell you if it will work
[13:08:41] <Valen> I'm thinking of using EMC to drive weird things like telescopes and well other weird things
[13:09:09] <archivist> iirc there was a telescope using enc
[13:09:14] <archivist> emc
[13:10:42] <SWPadnos> Valen, that would work just fine
[13:11:10] <SWPadnos> just import hal in your python program, and make some HAL pins that you'll use to output the positions
[13:11:20] <Valen> that could be handy
[13:11:39] <SWPadnos> the PID blocks (and limiters, if you want to limit accel) would respond exactly as they do now for the motion controller
[13:12:05] <Valen> neato ;->
[13:12:17] <Valen> now I just need to rember the cool thing I wanted to do with it lol
[13:12:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:12:57] <Valen> hmm, might go talk to my uni, I could probably swing a PHD out of unfucking their telescope
[13:13:07] <Valen> then i can be Dr Anderson
[13:13:19] <SWPadnos> you're in Australia, right?
[13:13:23] <Valen> yeah
[13:13:31] <SWPadnos> let me know if you need an assistant :)
[13:13:41] <SWPadnos> err - co-unfucker
[13:13:44] <Valen> last I heard they had all these super magical encoders and motors etc on it but they had terrible trouble getting it to drive and track
[13:13:51] <Valen> lol where are you again?
[13:14:04] <SWPadnos> Vermont
[13:14:12] <Valen> only thing is they want squillions in fees to do it
[13:14:37] <Valen> lol so why do you want to come to the sun burnt country? ;->
[13:15:02] <SWPadnos> Winter is starting
[13:15:18] <SWPadnos> plus, I've never been there
[13:15:22] <Valen> it was 40C (104f) here yesterday
[13:15:29] <Valen> and it hasnt really started summer yet
[13:15:31] <SWPadnos> it was 40F here yesterday
[13:15:40] <SWPadnos> and going lower
[13:15:49] <Valen> put a jumper on ;->
[13:15:57] <SWPadnos> maybe I could count it as a medical expense - need more vitamin D :)
[13:16:21] <Valen> hah, last blood test i had said i was defficent
[13:16:36] <Valen> friends of mine have been to USA and say the sun is totally different there
[13:16:38] <SWPadnos> you need to get outside more
[13:16:42] <SWPadnos> I'm sure
[13:16:53] <Valen> like go outside for 2 hours in the middle of the day and you get a light tan
[13:16:53] <SWPadnos> less of a crisping thing, more of a slow bake
[13:17:18] <SWPadnos> oh, isn't the ozone hole over AU somewhere?
[13:17:27] <Valen> I tan pretty easily but i can get burnt in about 15 minutes in the middle of the day
[13:17:34] <Valen> yeah, most of it lol
[13:18:23] <Valen> i have a "dark" complexion usually
[13:18:49] <SWPadnos> I used to tan quite dark (as a kid), but I'm zombie pale these days
[13:18:51] <Valen> so its kinda hard lol, I have been trying to get out more but i don't want to die of skin cancer lol
[13:19:01] <Valen> heh about the same
[13:19:09] <Valen> still i'm getting some colour
[13:19:23] <Valen> its not so bad after 4:00pm ;->
[13:19:46] <Valen> then you just need to worry about the spiders, snakes and drop bears
[13:20:29] <SWPadnos> sure - nothing big
[13:20:43] <Valen> lol was funny, was doing some stuff with a guy in new zeland (probably something like canda > usa to you guys)
[13:20:57] <SWPadnos> that is one thing that you get when your area freezes for a fwe months a year - no big nasty poisonous things around
[13:21:07] <Valen> guys missus wanted to come here but he was freaked by snakes and spiders
[13:21:16] <Valen> its not so bad really
[13:21:24] <Valen> if you leave shoes outside check them
[13:21:36] <Valen> kick shit out of a log before you pick it up
[13:21:53] <Valen> or master the art of the quick flick
[13:23:13] <Valen> snakes arent more afraid of you than you are of them but they wont come after you
[13:23:17] <SWPadnos> I guess we have similar problems, but not as bad. ticks may land on your head and give you Lyme Disease
[13:23:43] <Valen> we get paralisis ticks here too but i don't think we have Lyme Disease yet
[13:23:54] <Valen> got a buttload off the dogs after we went out in the bush once
[13:24:00] <Valen> would have been 100+
[13:24:03] <Valen> per dog
[13:24:05] <SWPadnos> actually, we may go to Australia next year - I've got lots of miles and points, so we can fly and stay for free
[13:24:14] <SWPadnos> huh
[13:24:31] <Valen> cool I'll have to show you the shed if you come through sydney
[13:24:48] <SWPadnos> we surely would, since that's the common entry point for United flights :)
[13:24:56] <Valen> ticks, they go after dogs
[13:25:30] <Valen> neither of us got any, (which is surprising considering what we were doing there *cough hack*)
[13:25:56] <SWPadnos> ahem
[13:27:11] <Valen> we got probably 80 or so small ticks (i think you call them deer ticks?) off each of them and 10-20 paralysis ticks (the ones that kill you eventually)
[13:27:31] <SWPadnos> yeah, sounds lovely
[13:28:40] <Valen> pretty rare though, i mean i've never been bitten by a spider or anything like that
[13:28:44] <Valen> seen a few snakes
[13:28:59] <Valen> massive red belly black snake on our daily walk once
[13:29:10] <Valen> would have been 5 or 6 feet long
[13:29:17] <Valen> sunning itself on the tar
[13:29:22] <SWPadnos> heh. here, it's "cool" to run across a snake - none of them bite or have venom, so they're cute and interesting
[13:29:49] <Valen> oh it was cool here to, called the dogs back put them on the lead and waited till it went into the bushes
[13:30:29] <Valen> I'm no taxonimist but full marks to the guy who described that one. I've never seen one before but i am damn sure thats what it was ;->
[13:30:46] <Valen> (they are also really really poisonous and somewhat aggressive)
[13:31:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:31:22] <SWPadnos> and they only exist in the eastern parts of Australia - nive
[13:31:24] <SWPadnos> nice
[13:31:39] <Valen> (thats only where like 90% of the population is ;->)
[13:32:47] <SWPadnos> what are the temperatures there in July?
[13:32:55] <Valen> depends where you are
[13:33:10] <SWPadnos> say Sydney - I'd expect it to be warmer in Cairns :)
[13:33:16] <Valen> western sydney (where i am) varies somewhat
[13:33:39] <Valen> minimums of around 0C are common
[13:33:53] <Valen> but not for long
[13:34:09] <Valen> -2 - -4 some days
[13:34:26] <Valen> dont do queensland in summer ;->
[13:34:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:34:38] <SWPadnos> our summer or yours?
[13:34:41] <Valen> its like 4 billion degrees and 900% humidity
[13:34:45] <Valen> ours
[13:34:49] <SWPadnos> ah, sunny :)
[13:35:01] <Valen> its the humidity thats the problem
[13:35:09] <Valen> its just groady
[13:35:20] <Valen> do QLD in spring
[13:35:27] <Valen> well its good for us in spring anyway
[13:35:37] <Valen> temps are nice, air is cool
[13:35:44] <Valen> humidity is low
[13:35:58] <Valen> sit on the beach eating fish and chips reading a book
[13:36:48] <SWPadnos> I've been thinking of doing an "exotic" trip for Christmas this year, like somewhere in the pacific rim, but Australia could be good too
[13:37:11] <SWPadnos> when it gets to -20C here, my wife starts thinking about warmer climates :)
[13:37:16] <Valen> lol
[13:37:28] <Valen> sydney in mid summer is probably not an ideal change ;->
[13:37:34] <SWPadnos> no
[13:37:49] <Valen> its sitting in front of the computer with shorts on and not much else with the fan on full blast ;->
[13:37:52] <SWPadnos> but the flight is long enough that we might adjust ;)
[13:38:35] <Valen> its not too bad if your in the city mostly
[13:39:02] <Valen> where i am is 50-70km from the ocean and at the base of the mountains
[13:39:10] <Valen> or hills if your from another country ;->
[13:39:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:39:39] <SWPadnos> 4400 feet here
[13:39:44] <SWPadnos> (mountains that is)
[13:40:09] <Valen> oh we get close to that I think
[13:41:08] <Valen> I have climed the tallest mountain in australia
[13:41:45] <Valen> ok so i walked up it
[13:42:33] <Valen> huh well waddya know turns out mountains are smaller than i thaught
[13:42:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:42:48] <SWPadnos> what's the threshold?
[13:42:54] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain
[13:43:04] <Valen> seems to depend on what you feel like calling it
[13:44:00] <SWPadnos> figures
[13:44:38] <Valen> in that case we have mountains dammit
[13:44:47] <Valen> you a diver?
[13:44:58] <SWPadnos> no, but I'd like to be
[13:45:18] <SWPadnos> I've gone on a dive off Grand Turk Island - that was very cool
[13:45:29] <SWPadnos> and the Great Barrier Reef is on my list
[13:45:39] <Valen> i havent done much but the reef is on mine too ;->
[13:45:59] <Valen> I have done some shore dives from merimbula (near where my mum lives) that were nice
[13:46:05] <SWPadnos> my wife has a fear of diving, based on an unfortunate incident when we were snorkeling
[13:46:14] <Valen> ahh sucky :-<
[13:46:17] <Valen> what happened?
[13:46:37] <SWPadnos> oh, we just went too far out of her confort zone, and I had to help get her back to shore
[13:46:49] <Valen> yeah thats no fun
[13:47:04] <SWPadnos> she wasn't all that confortable breathing with her face in the water in the first place, and that made it worse
[13:47:33] <Valen> if snorkaling isn't her cup of tea scuba probably isnt going to float her boat either
[13:47:33] <SWPadnos> plus there's the Darth Vader sound in her ear, which exacerbates a mild claustrophobia :)
[13:47:37] <SWPadnos> no
[13:47:51] <SWPadnos> she did go along to Grand Turk, but didn't go down on the 30-foot dive
[13:48:04] <Valen> a blue groper eating a spinky anemony out of your hand might help ;->
[13:48:06] <SWPadnos> she did the instruction part like a trooper though, gotta give her credit for that
[13:48:42] <Valen> I have almost no fear of the water, I don't actually remeber learning to swim and i did squads for years
[13:49:04] <Valen> only bad experience I can rember was getting stuck under a lilo that somebody was laying on at a pool party
[13:49:09] <Valen> that was bad ;->
[13:49:24] <SWPadnos> yeah, there used to be a "beach bus" when I was a kid - they'd basically drive us out to the beach for 4 hours or so per day during the summer
[13:49:34] <Valen> that would have been cool
[13:49:36] <SWPadnos> so learning to swim and getting tan were pretty easy
[13:49:48] <Valen> we used to stay with my grandad in merimbula
[13:49:49] <SWPadnos> (free even - it was a school bus and a volunteer driver)
[13:50:03] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merimbula
[13:50:29] <Valen> you cant actually see the main beach there though
[13:51:10] <SWPadnos> oh, that looks like a good spot :)
[13:51:15] <Valen> massive tides there
[13:51:23] <Valen> if you go in the channel
[13:51:35] <Valen> at peak flow I could just barely make headway
[13:51:38] <Valen> it was great fun
[13:51:47] <SWPadnos> good exercise at least
[13:51:53] <Valen> I used to do a 30 second 50 meter time
[13:51:59] <Valen> went to state for swimming
[13:52:40] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I think I'd be closer to 50 seconds for 30 meters
[13:52:59] <Valen> I think i can do a 35 second now, once lol
[13:53:12] <Valen> south coast is nice in places
[13:53:45] <Valen> I might be able to hook you up with some accommodation down that way if the times work out right
[13:53:51] <SWPadnos> cool
[13:54:04] <SWPadnos> though it would be cool in the (northern hemisphere) summer
[13:54:06] <SWPadnos> :)
[13:54:16] <Valen> (IE you can probably stay at my mums place if I'm there too, she has 3 spare bedrooms)
[13:54:22] <SWPadnos> nice
[13:54:29] <Valen> nah its still pretty hot
[13:54:32] <SWPadnos> thanks
[13:54:34] <SWPadnos> oh, good :)
[13:54:43] <Valen> melbourne is cool
[13:54:55] <Valen> your missus would like there probably, aparently lots of shopping
[13:54:59] <SWPadnos> the hard thing is that my wife works in schools, so she's stuck with the school vacation schedule
[13:55:11] <SWPadnos> and it's silly to leave Vermont in the summer, when she has 6 weeks off
[13:55:15] <Valen> yeah your Xmas break is really short isnt it?
[13:55:23] <Valen> we have 6 weeks over xmas
[13:55:30] <SWPadnos> she's got 11 days I think
[13:55:35] <Valen> ouch
[13:55:41] <SWPadnos> and if she takes off a couple more, it would be 16 days
[13:55:50] <SWPadnos> (due to the extra weekend)
[13:56:08] <SWPadnos> but she has to make up any time she takes off that way, which is a pain
[13:56:11] <Valen> only real downside it thats peak tourist season, everythings packed
[13:56:15] <SWPadnos> yeah
[13:56:44] <SWPadnos> I was thinking it would be cool to go to Singapore / Tokyo / Honk Kong - places that traditionally didn't give a damn about Christmas :)
[13:57:00] <Valen> lol
[13:57:28] <Valen> I think i really want to go to the cayman islands
[13:57:34] <SWPadnos> don't bother
[13:57:36] <Valen> or after watching burn notice, miami
[13:57:49] <Valen> orly why is that?
[13:57:50] <SWPadnos> again, don't bother, at least not for more than a few days
[13:58:09] <SWPadnos> well, Cayman is supposed to be good for diving, though I didn't do any when we were there
[13:58:24] <SWPadnos> we went to Grand Cayman on a cruise, and had the worst time
[13:58:32] <Valen> ?
[13:58:42] <SWPadnos> we just wanted to bike around a bit, so we found a place that rented out bikes
[13:59:12] <SWPadnos> the people were completely apathetic, and rented us crappy old 1-speed bikes, which I later learned mine had no brakes
[13:59:33] <Valen> oh yeah, my 2nd dream life is to run a fly dive on the barrier reef out of surfers or so, but with the "dive" part being a submarine
[13:59:44] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:59:52] <SWPadnos> luckily, I was able to avoid getting killed, so we went back to the rental place, and they were completely indifferent to the fact that (a) they had rented out crap and (b) it had almost gotten me klilled
[14:00:17] <Valen> sounds like most tourist places lol not a cayman specific thing
[14:00:22] <SWPadnos> plus, it was a hot, dry, dusty day, and the island is a flat wasteland (at least the part we weere at)
[14:00:24] <SWPadnos> yeah
[14:00:38] <Valen> I just like the look of the beaches
[14:00:40] <SWPadnos> Cayman does have interesting submarine dives though
[14:00:46] <SWPadnos> Grand Turk
[14:00:52] <SWPadnos> better beaches
[14:01:07] <SWPadnos> or, take a cruise ship that goes to Half Moon Cay
[14:01:09] <Valen> actual underwater type submarines or the "semi submersables" aka a boat with a glass bottom
[14:01:16] <SWPadnos> that's easily the best beach I've seen
[14:01:19] <SWPadnos> actual submarines
[14:01:25] <Valen> funky
[14:01:31] <SWPadnos> we went on one of those in Hawai'i
[14:01:36] <Valen> nobody runs them in aus
[14:01:41] <SWPadnos> but they have *real* subs at Cayman
[14:02:03] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, it costs about $1/foot of depth, if I remember correctly :)
[14:02:08] <Valen> I was also thinking, underwater hotel, acrylic rooms
[14:02:20] <Valen> thats pretty cheap really
[14:02:20] <SWPadnos> there was an 800 foot dive for $800, and a 3000 foot dive for a few $k
[14:02:33] <Valen> 800ft is really quite deep
[14:02:36] <SWPadnos> that second one only has room for one or two people, it's a bubble craft
[14:02:46] <Valen> yeah, that would be pretty cool
[14:02:47] <SWPadnos> they scoot down the continental shelf with spotlights on
[14:02:49] <SWPadnos> yeah
[14:02:58] <Valen> I was thinking of running in the 20-30 meter range
[14:03:00] <Valen> tops
[14:03:01] <SWPadnos> that sub was (a) out of order and (b) waaaaay too expensive
[14:03:09] <SWPadnos> oh, that's what we did in Honolulu
[14:03:13] <Valen> so you can still use natural light
[14:03:15] <SWPadnos> saw a shark or two
[14:03:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[14:03:21] <SWPadnos> 120 feet I think it was
[14:04:06] <Valen> Would you stay in a "private room" aka acrylic tube 10 meters or so under water with a nice view of the reef
[14:04:20] <SWPadnos> as a hotel?
[14:04:33] <Valen> yeah,
[14:04:35] <SWPadnos> or for lunch>
[14:04:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:04:39] <Valen> hotel
[14:04:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm, maybe
[14:04:47] <SWPadnos> depends on the size
[14:04:54] <Valen> wouldn't be large
[14:05:04] <SWPadnos> a big acrylic/polycarbonate dome would be cool
[14:05:09] <Valen> lol so probably standard hotel room size
[14:05:17] <SWPadnos> big meaning ~6m across at least
[14:05:20] <Valen> yeah that might be the way to go
[14:05:28] <Valen> yeah thats the ballpark I had in mind
[14:05:49] <SWPadnos> that would be at least as popular as teh ice hotels I bet
[14:05:59] <Valen> I liked the idea of the tube, floating in the middle of the water column
[14:06:09] <Valen> give the fish something to watch
[14:06:18] <SWPadnos> yeah, but there are privbacy issues :)
[14:06:22] <SWPadnos> privacy
[14:06:35] <Valen> thats the best bit, the GBR is stonking huge
[14:06:53] <Valen> the "rooms" would all be hidden from each other by a decent amount of reef
[14:06:53] <SWPadnos> oh - like a houseboat kind of thing?
[14:07:05] <Valen> yeah but mored to the bottom
[14:07:15] <SWPadnos> ie, not connected to other domes/tubes, so you surface to get in/out?
[14:07:22] <Valen> yeah
[14:07:40] <Valen> that whole "only 2 people on earth" feeling
[14:07:44] <SWPadnos> sure
[14:07:47] <SWPadnos> that would be cool
[14:07:54] <Valen> thats what I thought
[14:08:10] <Valen> free quasi-futuristic silver jumpsuits for all guests ;->
[14:08:21] <SWPadnos> nah, who needs clothes :)
[14:08:24] <Valen> room service consists of a spear gun and a gril
[14:08:36] <Valen> well you do, at least until the driver leaves ;->
[14:08:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:08:58] <Valen> wonder how much you could charge for that
[14:09:00] <SWPadnos> that's the thing though - I'd want to have control over when we come and go
[14:09:11] <Valen> book a taxi
[14:09:23] <Valen> water taxi could come pick you up
[14:09:27] <SWPadnos> come and go from the underwater room
[14:09:34] <Valen> hit the button to surface
[14:09:42] <SWPadnos> ok, that's what I was thinking
[14:10:00] <SWPadnos> just surface to a set of piers, and walk to the main hotel building(s)
[14:10:26] <Valen> nah, you wouldnt get permission to build a hotel there
[14:10:38] <Valen> its a national park
[14:11:02] <Valen> I was thinking these would be more along the line of mountain huts
[14:11:14] <SWPadnos> ok, "sea cabins"
[14:11:19] <Valen> thats the ticket
[14:11:25] <SWPadnos> at the "sea lodge"
[14:11:31] <Valen> exacterly
[14:11:53] <SWPadnos> so you have a few kayaks or canoes out there, for people to paddle themselves back to shore (or a more central water taxi platform)
[14:12:04] <SWPadnos> (since it's hard to walk)
[14:12:28] <Valen> the reef is generally an hour or more off shore for most of its length
[14:12:33] <Valen> (in a quick boat)
[14:12:53] <Valen> My idea was to run a sea plane service
[14:12:53] <SWPadnos> ok, main water taxi platform for sure
[14:13:13] <Valen> or the water taxi if you want to save some $ at the expense of some time
[14:13:22] <Valen> but yeah thats the idea
[14:13:49] <Valen> call reception, book a trip to shore (or a dive site, whatever)
[14:14:14] <Valen> either make your own way there or somebody will come over to pick you up
[14:14:53] <Valen> this is 5 star service style of thing, not for those trying to save every penny
[14:15:00] <SWPadnos> right - "make your own way" is the part I was thinking of
[14:15:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:15:17] <SWPadnos> yeah, I'd imagine $500-1000/night actually
[14:15:29] <Valen> (i mean an acrylic casting that big is probably in the $200k per attempt range)
[14:15:38] <Valen> yeah that sort of ballpark
[14:15:50] <SWPadnos> but you need good stuff for that - restaurants/food service, larger accomodations, nice stuff in the "room", etc
[14:16:14] <SWPadnos> and making it non-distorting is a PITA
[14:16:34] <SWPadnos> though it would be interesting to do things like putting magnifying glasses in some areas
[14:17:19] <Valen> you can make it non distorting from certain positions
[14:17:52] <SWPadnos> well, I was thinking of ripples or other curing problems, not so much having a giant round window that doesn't distort (an impossible proposition, I think)
[14:18:14] <Valen> you need fully enclosed moulding and a special cure cycle
[14:18:38] <SWPadnos> and a bigass polisher, most likely
[14:19:09] <Valen> mmm its not that nice to polish
[14:19:17] <Valen> http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=-36.898,149.901&z=15&t=H&marker0=-36.898,149.901,Merimbula,%20New%20South%20Wales
[14:19:22] <Valen> merimbula
[14:19:28] <Valen> looks like that was done at high tide
[14:20:00] <Valen> all the "light blue bits" of sand are under about a meter of water
[14:20:10] <Valen> probably less actually, its about knee deep
[14:20:24] <Valen> I used to polish scratches out of motorcycle screens, it sucked
[14:20:44] <SWPadnos> I can imagine
[14:20:55] <Valen> its really easy to burn it
[14:21:12] <Valen> but still, nice MDF mould made by a bigass gantry CnC
[14:21:17] <Valen> conductive paint
[14:21:22] <Valen> nickle plate
[14:21:23] <Valen> polish
[14:21:26] <Valen> pour
[14:21:27] <Valen> cast
[14:21:33] <Valen> oven
[14:21:34] <Valen> pull
[14:21:36] <Valen> cross fingers
[14:21:45] <Valen> fill defects
[14:22:09] <Valen> I learnt to fly at that airport too
[14:22:17] <SWPadnos> ah - here's a relatively good photo of Half Moon Cay: http://z.about.com/d/cruises/1/0/G/X/4/Half_Moon_Cay_14.JPG
[14:22:27] <SWPadnos> the beach anyway
[14:22:32] <Valen> yeah thats why I wanted to go there ;->
[14:22:42] <SWPadnos> not Grand Cayman
[14:22:47] <Valen> is the water that colour?
[14:22:50] <SWPadnos> that's a cruise line owned island
[14:22:52] <SWPadnos> yes
[14:23:59] <Valen> mmmm shiny
[14:25:29] <Valen> http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=-37.16859,150.00020&z=14&t=H&marker0=-36.89800%2C149.90100%2CMerimbula%2C%20New%20South%20Wales was about where we got the tick infestation I think
[14:25:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:26:01] <Valen> pretty close to the middle of nowhere really
[14:26:12] <Valen> well its past eden anyway
[14:26:15] <Valen> place is a hole
[14:27:17] <SWPadnos> looks like a nice hole
[14:27:28] <Valen> eden, yeah kinda I spose
[14:27:29] <SWPadnos> ~120 miles south of Sydney?
[14:27:38] <SWPadnos> I mean the tick spot
[14:27:45] <Valen> ahh yeah that was
[14:28:00] <Valen> its about 600km to drive the way we go
[14:28:03] <Valen> through canberra
[14:28:08] <Valen> or 450 down the coast
[14:28:12] <Valen> both take the same time
[14:29:24] <Valen> upside of the coast road is there is a seafood place about halfway ulladulla i think it is
[14:29:44] <Valen> you order 24 hours in advance and for ~$30 per head you get a hot and cold seafood lunch
[14:29:57] <Valen> they bring out the cold stuff and you go well that was a nice meal
[14:30:10] <Valen> then they bring out the hot stuff and you go "holy crap where am i going to fit that"
[14:31:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:31:21] <SWPadnos> my kind of place
[14:31:44] <Valen> you sit on a deck built out over the water
[14:31:55] <Valen> so you can look down and see all the fish swimming under there
[14:39:59] <Valen> if your after the middle of nowhere
[14:40:00] <Valen> http://maps.google.com.au/maps?cid=14384243669535985671&q=Launch+Area+9+LA9&sll=-30.882043,136.463671&sspn=0.056867,0.132093&hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=Launch+Area+9+LA9&hnear=&ll=-30.885505,136.459894&spn=0.056865,0.132093&t=h&z=14
[14:40:04] <Valen> I lost a rocket there
[14:41:19] <SWPadnos> I'm more of a forest nowhere guy, not desert nowhere
[14:41:26] <Valen> a line roughly west of the buildings
[14:41:36] <Valen> oh thats not actually the desert
[14:41:48] <SWPadnos> it's desert enough for me :)
[14:42:02] <Valen> desert starts where it changes colour north west a bit
[14:42:28] <Valen> typical though, it pissed down rain for 24 hours before the launch
[14:42:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:43:04] <Valen> bogged 2 utes up to the axles looking for the damn thing
[14:43:37] <Valen> one guy bogged a land cruser patroll troop carrier solid when he took it 4 meters off the track to get it closer to the portaloo
[14:43:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:43:47] <Valen> he copped it good for that for weeks lol
[14:50:03] <Valen> Have you seen the show eureka?
[14:50:09] <SWPadnos> nope
[14:50:42] <Valen> ahh, its pretty cool, I was thinking if i ever went to canada I'd like to visit the "main street" of the show
[14:59:01] <tom3p> jetsons meet jaques cousteau http://weburbanist.com/2008/02/20/17-extreme-houseboats-and-houseboat-designs-luxury-marine-habitats-to-humble-floating-homes/
[15:00:17] <Valen> trippy
[15:00:36] <Valen> needs a bed downstairs not a seat
[16:13:32] <Dave911> SWPadnos: >>just import hal in your python program, and make some HAL pins that you'll use to output the positions
[16:13:34] <Dave911> Is it feasible to drive Hal motion via Classic ladder directly? That is on my todo list to try, but I thought you might already know. If that was possible could a PyVCP screen be used to tied Hal to a GUI along with classic ladder driving the motion for a cheap and easy motion controller with MMI?
[16:14:51] <SWPadnos> I think the math functions available in classicladder are limited, but conceptually you can run motors from anything that ouputs a floating point number in HAL
[16:39:50] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[16:45:27] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[17:27:09] <Dave911> SWPadnos: > math functions available ..... Geez, I didn't think of that. I was thinking that I might have a pin availability problem but I didn't think about the math in the ladder as being a limitation. Hmm..
[17:27:11] <Dave911> Do you know of any existing Python programs (that I can learn from) that manipulate the Hal pins directly like that? Any help is greatly appreciated!
[17:29:33] <alex_joni> http://computerpowertest.com/
[17:31:03] <jthornton_> LOL
[17:58:57] <tom3p> Dave911: maybe of interest... not emc, just hal and a joypad , has inputs and outputs ( no motion but you gotta begin somewhere ) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?A_New_Approach_For_Using_Joypads_With_EMC2
[18:00:48] <kanzure> a joystick interface? :)
[18:01:13] <Jymmm> A gamepad actually.
[18:02:06] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=s94&q=logitech+gamepad&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=10005068471467454283&ei=esHxSu-nFYSQtgPR_rX4AQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCsQ8wIwBw#ps-sellers
[18:02:46] <tom3p> it demonstrates analog and digtal inputs, a pyvcp panel can demonstrate digital outputs, an led wired to parport can demonstrate 'analog' ( pwm ) output
[18:03:54] <tom3p> goodwill, 2$ bucks last week ( you're gonna hack it up anyway )
[18:07:31] <Guest483> Hi there
[18:07:34] <Guest483> Anyone active?
[18:08:00] <skunkworks> ask away
[18:08:18] <Guest483> Thought i'd jump in and look for some general information before jumping off the cliff.
[18:08:33] <Guest483> I have (and am buolding a second) 3 Axis CNC router/Mill.
[18:09:01] <Guest483> A friend of mine is looking to do for a B and C axis (I have heard axis with all kinda of names, so hopefully those names make sense)
[18:09:07] <Guest483> I'm wondering,
[18:09:32] <Guest483> Is there an established process for producing the gCode for to run 5 axis?
[18:10:01] <Guest483> meaning, I have a Sphere model and i want to cut it with my 5 axis machine (well, a Sphere on a small trunk/stump"
[18:10:12] <Guest483> How would one go about produsing gCode for 5 axis?
[18:10:17] <archivist> I hand write the gcode for mine, but that because its simple gear cutting
[18:10:28] <Guest483> I know how to go 3 axis (I use Vectric software (VCarve Pro)
[18:11:02] <Guest483> I have seen some videos of a "new feature" for EMC2
[18:11:10] <Guest483> and the videos show it cutting a sphere with 5 axis,
[18:11:39] <Guest483> I'm guessing EMC2 is control software, not so much the gcode producing part.
[18:11:54] <archivist> its the control
[18:11:55] <pjm> evening all
[18:12:00] <archivist> allo
[18:12:18] <tom3p> the gcode for the sphere demo was hand edited, not cam generated
[18:13:20] <tom3p> gcode generation is separate from emc, but emc can execute multi axis code
[18:13:27] <archivist> some is surprisingly easy to write once you get you head around the moves
[18:14:05] <Guest483> is anyone aware of soemthing for producing 5 axis gcodes?
[18:14:29] <archivist> not free and or cheap
[18:15:05] <Guest483> ok,
[18:15:14] <Guest483> what are the optuions that arn't free....or cheap?
[18:16:42] <jt-plasma> OneCNC is one
[18:16:51] <archivist> I got quoted £60000 at a machine tool expo a while ago
[18:17:18] <jt-plasma> I think 5 axis OneCNC is about 4 or 5k dollars
[18:18:07] <alex_joni> is this still english? http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Tubes
[18:18:29] <tom3p> cnctoolkit free complex windows based http://www.youtube.com/user/cnctoolkit
[18:19:47] <tom3p> nutating head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noylo54h8UE
[18:20:27] <Dave911> tom3p: Thanks... I thought I went through the entire wiki but there always seems to be more! I'll take a look at that.
[18:21:18] <tom3p> trunnion tables run with emc (5 axis ) in holland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjPCEpZybXs
[18:22:37] <tom3p> not sure that was emc, the 'synthetic' z axis feature isnt in emc ( tilting planes )
[18:23:33] <tom3p> i thought jan vangilsen was using emc ( for this project )
[18:23:42] <skunkworks> yes it is - when you write kins for it...
[18:23:59] <tom3p> then making gold is there too
[18:25:13] <alex_joni> tom3p: no, that wasn't emc, it was emc2 ;)
[18:25:21] <skunkworks> ;_
[18:25:23] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:26:34] <tom3p> belgium, not holland
[18:27:24] <tom3p> alex_joni: it looks like he's translating the z axis, rotation is not about cartesian, it's normal to an arbitrary plane. is that a branch?
[18:28:12] <tom3p> yes i mean emc2, emc is pretty dead, paul doesnt even come in anymore
[18:29:45] <alex_joni> tom3p: no, that's based on kinematics
[18:29:55] <alex_joni> so if you code it up for your machine, it works like that
[18:31:22] <tom3p> ok, did jan post his kins ?
[18:31:43] <motioncontrol> Good evening.Some people have expireance with ethercat on emc2 ?
[18:32:24] <tom3p> alex_joni: sorry, did jan post his kins?
[18:33:49] <alex_joni> no, I don't think so
[18:38:36] <motioncontrol> alex_joni, good evening.Excuse have experience with ethercat ? Have some help?
[18:39:05] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: no experience, but I know some people used some ethercat hardware with emc2
[18:39:14] <alex_joni> I do know they wrote some custom code to make it work though
[18:39:25] <alex_joni> and they only used I/O - not motion commands
[18:43:01] <motioncontrol> alex_joni, please can know this people. i want read in emc2 only I/O with ethercat.thanks
[18:49:47] <tom3p> motioncontrol: i dont know the people, but this may help http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/emc2_ethercat.tar.gz.tar
[18:51:45] <motioncontrol> tom3p, yes thanks i read it.Tommorrow order the master and the slave interface for inizial startup.
[18:51:58] <alex_joni> http://www.cncecke.de/forum/showthread.php?t=39803
[18:52:12] <tom3p> and links to hardware and projects http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11098.html
[18:54:20] <motioncontrol> ok more thanks for info.a question . i send at souceforge the request for implementation tool lenght compensation along y axis. for read the status have some help?
[18:56:06] <cradek> I don't think anybody is working on that feature. I would be happy to review a patch you submit, if you want to do the work on this feature.
[18:58:04] <motioncontrol> cradek, good evening .yes i thing this improvement is very important for more flexible system.
[18:59:01] <motioncontrol> cradek, i thing a pin or some metode for compensation the lenght tool along y axis.
[18:59:22] <cradek> it would need to be added to the tool table.
[19:00:23] <motioncontrol> cradek, yes i thing is important create a new table for lengh compensation in x,yand z axis
[19:02:24] <motioncontrol> cradek, i want assign at you this feture, i assignment at you in sourceforce or not important?
[19:03:19] <archivist> motioncontrol, assign to yourself
[19:04:13] <cradek> motioncontrol: If you are willing to pay for me to do this work, send me an email.
[19:07:26] <Jymmm> Yeah, cradek is like the Happy Hooker of EMC.... Easy, just not cheap.
[19:13:20] <Jymmm> motioncontrol: If there is a feature that you want to see in EMC, you are more than welcome to create it yourself and submit it to the repository.
[19:15:45] <motioncontrol> Jymmm, ok i study , i don't have idea the correct use the sourceforge.But i improvement it.
[20:16:25] <gene_h> Gene, from the comfort of his dens heat.
[20:17:33] <gene_h> The A axis is not being displayed except in the angular degrees text box. Since I updated to 2.3.4-1
[20:18:16] <gene_h> How can I make it display by an apparent rotation of the workpiece about the z axis?
[20:19:24] <SWPadnos> look at the GEOMETRY= line in your ini file
[20:19:50] <cradek> what was your previous version gene_h?
[20:20:21] <SWPadnos> if you have an actual A axis (rotation around a line parallel to the X axis), then I think you need to specify GEOMETRY=XAYZ (but I'm not sure of that)
[20:20:59] <gene_h> 2.2.8 _>2.3.3->2.3.4-1
[20:21:18] <gene_h> And I don't have such a line in the ini file at all.
[20:21:55] <SWPadnos> take a look at the sample condigs, and maybe even the manual, and add it to the DISPLAY section :)
[20:22:44] <gene_h> I want the whole display to rotate on the z axis, carrying previous work done with it. I just printed the new user pdf too.
[20:22:50] <MrSunshine_> any chemists here that know about how thick one can electroplate stuff? :)
[20:23:08] <SWPadnos> rotation about Z would be the C axis
[20:26:36] <gene_h> I changed the COORDINATES = X Y Z A to COORDINATES = X Y Z C and it crashes and exits, and I must not have printed it all, what else to do need to get these references?
[20:34:14] <Dave911> Mr. Sunshine: Why do you think there would be a limit?
[20:34:16] <Dave911> I know that to make very pure electrical copper they plate it out into rods and I think they start with a fine wire... etc... So I am not sure there is a chemical limit, perhaps a physical - what's practical limit.
[20:36:25] <SWPadnos> it depends on what you're plating to what
[20:36:29] <skunkworks> do you have a c axis?
[20:36:54] <SWPadnos> copper refining plates copper onto copper, so they can go to any thickness they want (more or less)
[20:37:41] <gene_h> Found it, in integrators manual, pages 29-30. Now to see if I can make it work... Thanks
[20:43:00] <andypugh> 7i43: 200k or 400k version?
[20:43:51] <andypugh> Also, does anyone in the UK want to combine shipping on a Mesa product?
[20:51:33] <gene_h> SWPadnos: I have tried just about all combo's of XYZA, AXYZ etc, but the backtrace is statioinary while the tool rotates about the x axis.
[20:52:10] <SWPadnos> A motion will never be around the Z axis, by definition
[20:52:19] <SWPadnos> motion around the Z axis is called C
[20:52:57] <gene_h> Ok, then how do I specify the 3rd axis as the C axis?
[20:53:55] <gene_h> Is that in the COORDINATES line?
[20:55:13] <andypugh> I believe so. You might need to claim to have 6 axes
[20:55:32] <andypugh> I vaguely recall some discussion on the mailing list, let me look.
[20:56:57] <andypugh> in the [TRAJ] stanza, set:
[20:56:58] <andypugh> AXES = 6
[20:56:59] <andypugh> COORDINATES = X Y Z A B C
[20:57:12] <andypugh> add empty stanzas for A,B:
[20:57:12] <andypugh> [AXIS_3]
[20:57:12] <andypugh> [AXIS_4]
[20:57:24] <andypugh> create new stanza for C
[20:57:24] <andypugh> [AXIS_5]
[20:57:24] <andypugh> TYPE = ANGULAR
[20:57:35] <SWPadnos> I think that's not the way to do it, actually
[20:57:41] <andypugh> once it's running, you may want to experiment with the GEOMETRY setting in the DISPLAY stanza:
[20:57:42] <andypugh> [DISPLAY]
[20:57:42] <andypugh> GEOMETRY = CXYZ
[20:57:56] <SWPadnos> you do need COORDINATES=XYZC, but I don't know what happens to the AXES
[20:57:58] <SWPadnos> line
[20:57:59] <andypugh> OOps, just copy-pasting from a rely to the same question.
[20:58:21] <SWPadnos> depending on how old the reply is, it may not be appropriate any more :)
[20:58:41] <andypugh> 26th September...
[20:59:38] <SWPadnos> ok, I see the email, but I'm still not sure I agree that it's the correct way to do things
[20:59:41] <SWPadnos> it may work though
[20:59:59] <gene_h> Ok, I'll try the blanks, filled in is an exit eventually.
[21:00:02] <gene_h> BRB
[21:04:49] <gene_h> And that is gonna need a lot of editing in the .hal file. :)
[21:06:05] <andypugh> To make it work, perhaps, but to see if the visualisation is working you can probably just edit the ini file?
[21:07:49] <gene_h> I can't even get it to run now. I fixed the 2 AXIS_3 to AXIS_5 in the hal file but now it just gets stuck in an error loop for about 5 seconds, then quits & cleans up
[21:08:46] <andypugh> dmesg?
[21:10:17] <gene_h> Ahh, ahem, AXES=4 needed to be AXES=6
[21:10:39] <gene_h> And its running, now to see if it runs like I want, BRB
[21:11:16] <SWPadnos> heh - just leave the stepper box off and run the GUI remote from inside the house :)
[21:11:38] <andypugh> That's what I have been doing recently
[21:11:52] <SWPadnos> much nicer in the comfy office chair
[21:12:20] <archivist_emc> this chair needs an upgrade
[21:14:59] <gene_h> Thats what I am doing, and so does this chair!! BUT, even at feed override=2%, joint 5 following errors. Now what?
[21:17:10] <SWPadnos> did you loop back axis.5.motor-pos-cmd to axis.5.motor-pos-feedback?
[21:18:21] <gene_h> duh
[21:20:36] <gene_h> Do I need to change that whole .3 stanza to using .5's?
[21:21:10] <SWPadnos> seems like it, escept for the stepgen numbers
[21:21:26] <SWPadnos> and other HAL things - only the axis.3* should change to axis.5*
[21:21:56] <SWPadnos> s/axis\.3/axis\.5/g
[21:22:53] <SWPadnos> or, more completely, cat old.hal | sed 's/axis\.3/axis\.5/g' > new.hal (I think)
[21:27:17] <skunkworks> now you're just showing off! ;)
[21:27:27] <SWPadnos> only if it works :)
[21:30:36] <gene_h> hehe, but it doesn't. A short program to drill a hole every 90 degrees as the table turns, only show z going up & down, no display rotation.
[21:31:22] <gene_h> Now is when I fool with that order of XYZC in GEOMETRY?
[21:35:37] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:35:39] <gene_h> Its running with all that cross coupled stuff in the .hal file, but how do I dis-associate the tool xis from the tool, and connect it to the displayed image?
[21:35:53] <SWPadnos> ZCXY
[21:36:09] <SWPadnos> err, what?
[21:36:49] <SWPadnos> you replace all the ini value lookups with AXIS_5 instead of AXIS_3
[21:37:51] <SWPadnos> and all the axis.3 connections get replaced with axis.5 (which I gather you've already done)
[21:39:34] <gene_h> Yes and yes. Now it shows the table rotation as the bit moving around in a circle. This will do I think, but rotating the display backtrace would be nicer. :)
[21:39:49] <gene_h> On the xy plane that is.
[21:40:01] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I follow
[21:40:40] <SWPadnos> if you do a loop that moves X1 / X0 / G91C15 (repeat), you should see a bunch of thin spokes
[21:40:56] <SWPadnos> (of course switching to G90, or using X1 / X-1 instead)
[21:41:08] <gene_h> Next Q, on the backtrace, if I have a tool loaded from the tooltable, should it be showing the whole width of the tool as it moves, its just a line centered on the bit ATM?
[21:41:45] <SWPadnos> I believe the tool image is sized relative to the loaded tool parameters
[21:41:50] <SWPadnos> but I'm not sure it's to scale :)
[21:42:00] <gene_h> Neither am I :)
[21:42:54] <gene_h> I have to go be social to the missus, might be back after getting us fed. Thanks a bunch everybody.
[21:43:38] <SWPadnos> see you
[21:45:10] <skunkworks> ?35.256/11.752
[21:45:12] <skunkworks> 2
[21:45:16] <skunkworks> heh
[21:45:19] <skunkworks> oops
[21:45:32] <SWPadnos> looks closer to 3 to me
[21:47:27] <gene_h> What is the keypad key to move the C axis?
[21:47:37] <gene_h> I have about 10 minutes
[21:53:47] <SWPadnos> c, then +/-
[21:53:58] <Jymmm> C++
[21:54:05] <SWPadnos> I don't think there are direct keys for BCUVW
[21:54:53] <archivist_emc> gene_h see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/12642
[21:55:33] <archivist_emc> I used <> for B
[22:11:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Bottom row of kybd
[22:17:20] <Jymmm> I try to not let it effect me... But the stupidity of people never ceases to amaze and torment me.
[22:19:38] <cradek> Jymmm: 'affect'
[22:19:41] <cradek> :-)
[22:20:26] <archivist_emc> just an affliction :)
[22:31:32] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[22:38:50] <jthornton_> dangit I can find 3 standoffs of one lenght and 2 of another lenght with the proper size screws for the THC card and a handful that use screws that are too big
[22:39:00] <jthornton_> can someone e mail me 4?
[22:47:39] <jthornton_> length... gomhrtd ,idy nr d;pe ypfsu
[22:51:39] <jthornton_> oh boy the new cooler master case has 3 extra ones...
[23:52:01] <gene_h> archivist_emc: you link is bookmarked, thanks