I found a list in magma but its way out of date
Neo_The_User, I don't know that there is a comprehensive list of "what doesn't work"
so there is a chance that 18.104.22.168 will work fine?
there are a few kernels/RTAI versions that had specific problems, and so were labeled "stay away"
there's a chance
is there a patch for it?
not in magma
and I have an ext4 filesystem so.. I can't settle for old kernels
I don't think you have to use magma
wasn't that just the 3.2 series name or something?
SWPadnos: HDTV's.... is 120Hz that much better than 60Hz?
jymm, no idea
jymm: for your eyes, no
I haven't seen any problems with my 60 Hz one
your eyes can't pick up differences like that IIRC
the only place where it would be significantly better is that a 120Hz screen is guaranteed to be able to play 24 and 30 FPS content at an even multiple of the original
so there's no 3:2 pulldown for movies
ah good point
I'm think about getting one of these... http://www.walmart.com/Vizio-32-1080p-LCD-Java/ip/10778775
also, if you ever want to use a 3d video or game that supports it, the 120Hz rate is necessary so you get the full 60 Hz in both eyes
the Vizio TVs are really good, that's what I bought
Ok, that's what I heard.
they're mde in CA as well
glad you were able to confim
CAnada or CAlif ?
you can actually buy locally made Blu-ray players (Oppo) and TVs (Vizio)
and the Oppo is the best on the market, bar none
Hmmm 3yr walmart warranty $45
The current blu ray players are terrible. The PS3 is the most stable player
Costco has the same model for $429.99
Neo_The_User, that was true, until the Oppo BDP-83 came out
never heard of it
[00:22:35] <SWPadnos> http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/
plays every kind of disc that fits in it (possibly excepting CD-V), and does an excellent job with all of them
You think an extended warranty on this is a good thing?
SWPadnos: does it play ISO's?
has the best DVD upscaling available, and also the best Blu-ray native playback
err - no, I don't think so
but you can plug in a USB storage device and play mp3/mp4 files from it
and I don't believe it will stream via ethernet at the moment either
I don't know about the warrantee
I'd get it at Costco - I think they sell extended warranties as well, and I'd trust them better
I ask, becasue I have nfc on the lifespan of LCD TV's
I hear mixed horor stories.
the CCFL can get dim over time, but that usually takes several years to get to half brightness
and you can just turn up the brightness when that happens, so I'd expect an LCD to last quite a long time
SWPadnos: I mean MTBF
the only thing that isn't completely solid state is the CCFL supply/tube
so I'd expect it to last a long time
I haven't seen a single LCD screen die, even going back to my (well beaten) laptop that I bought in 2001
and a home TV would be expected to last a bit longer, since they theoretically don't get moved around as much
dead/frozen pixels, driver, etc
it even mirrors the mfg warranty for in-home service
I'd check the warrantee though, it may not cover dead pixels
oh hmmm - the ones at Costco aren't 1080p
really? that's surprising
alex_joni: >>>this is amusing: "I was under the impression that Mach was first developed by Canada's goverment or the first 80% and released to the public...then finished by Artsoft...so emc may share the same core but did not actually write it"
I was told that Art got the NIST source code as did some other people when it was released. Art is an old time hacker. He is a very clever guy but he has no formal programming training that I know of. He wanted to create a CNC controller so he could cut jewelry and jewelry molds with it. He wanted to run it on Windows. That was how it started. It then grew, other people heard about his...
...work, he gave away some copies and then started charging for them, and it evolved. I think it started with Master5, then Mach2 and Mach3. The real gem of Mach3 is the LPT driver. Everything else is a Windows App that tortures windows into functioning as a CNC controller. I don't believe the Canadian Gov had anything to do with the origins of Mach3. It was truly Art's baby.
the cheap ones aren't - they have them of course
NIST -> ARt -> Mach
SWPadnos: Ah, Well, I think a trip to walmart this evening s in order =)
I think Ray is the one who originally handed Art the disk :)
>>I think Ray is the one who originally handed Art the disk :)
I bet that Art remembers who he got it from! ;-)
heh, could be
did you read the silly thread those comments came from?
Yes, typical hearsay crap.. Notice that no one has actually tried to load and run the sw... :-(
I was going to post a somewhat more informed reply, but I'm not a member
and it wasn't worth signing up
It really has nothing to do with EMC2, it really has to do with people fear of Linux.
yeah, tell me about it
it's funny - I think someone posted on Slashdot (in an Android discussion, which turned into an iphone vs android discussion ...) that people find macs easier to use because they think they're easier to use, so they don't get scared if something doesn't work, and they figure it out
Ubuntu is so "windows compatible" in functionality it is crazy....
and there was an interesting poece on NPR over the weekend (I think), where they talked about the "race gap" or "gender gap" in school testing more or less disappearing when they rephrase the description of the test
it seems that a lot of it (Linux related) is initial (mis)perception
My wife is a college prof and she talks about stuff like that a lot... aim the test at a certain audience and they can do and the fringes of the audience do not..
when you think something is skewed against you, you give up earlier, since there must be no way to win
I think it is primarily a US things with Windows. I was trying to sell a industrial PC made by Siemens on Ebay - I got a guy from India who was interested but he had not desire to buy the included software. He said they only use Linux in India. While I'm sure that is a generalization, it is apparently much more prevalent over there than here..
I think there are sectors everywhere that use Linux a lot, but it's not really in the news
unless it's something like Home Depot switching from Windows to Linux (and then back)
I was just reading that on Hollywood, Linux is it - all the production houses use it for basically all their servers, most of their computing, and lots of their workstations
but they all have macs in the front office
I think that Linux is being used by the military.. but I don't know the ratio of Windows to Linux boxes..
backend = Linux, frontend = windows
Doesn't that sort of mirror the rest of the US - most of the web = Linux, most desktops = Windows
yeah, I think that's a common mode
does anybody know where --with-realtime=<path> is supposed to link to? i linked it to the kernel source and didn't work
that's an EMC2 build thing
oh - duh
did you build RTAI after building the ADEOS/ipipe enabled kernel?
No I patched my kernel with the -tip tree from igno molnar
that won't work
unless you've added an RTAPI layer to EMC2 that supports that type of kernel
I didn't modify the source from hand, no
you would have had to write it yourself, actually
now I see where all the work has to go into RTAI support :)
i needed to make some bash scripts more gui, like get a data file for the command. 'zenity' is very cool for this.
Anyone in here, who is alive?
no, im quite dead i think
I'm new in this LinuxCNC thing
But I've got a 6DOF robot, which I want to do some Inverse Kinematics with
Is that possible with LinuxCNC?
i dont know at all :) all ive done with emc is running my small first mill i built :P
mindThomas: emc has kinematics for serial and parraller robots
It is possible to control robots with emc
I've got this robot
[06:45:39] <mindThomas> http://www.arexx.com.cn/EnProductShow.asp?ID=123
And it's controlled with Serial commands
mindThomas: via serial port?
its a serial port connector on the card so i guess it should be rs232 serial port yes :P
but what do i know :)
but I'm using a laptop, so I've got a USB to RS232 (FTDII)
But isn't it difficult to set ENC2 up to control my robot with World Based cordiates (XYZABC - which is inverse kinematics)
that part is called kinematics, translate world coordinates to motors coordianates
emc has one called genserkins (general serial robots kinematics)
MrSunshine_: I missed that on pic, I've focused on counting DOF on robot ;)
micges_work, heh =)
mindThomas: what commands you sending via serial port? gcode? position?
it's a 6DOF robot
Which I've got from the university I'm on
It's a school project I'm working on, so it would be great if you could help me
the serial commands are strange NON-Standard commands
but isnt the USB -> Serial a problem for emc ?
Please see page 15 in this PDF: http://www.arexx.com.cn/uploadfiles/6servo_robot_arm_eng.pdf
heh another chinese supa program ;)
(I've ripped all control programs from chinese machines and put there emc ;)
and (suprisely) they're works better :D
mindThomas: I think you can put emc instead of this control program but for some details you must wait for alex_joni and ask him(he is out at the moment)
must back to work, bbl
When will alex_joni join?
probably evening (he has got 10:15 time now)
I've got 9:16
where you from?
I'm from Poland
and you ?
* alex_joni is around now
mindThomas: you can do forward/inverse kins in emc2 for that robot
mindThomas: you would have to rip out the electronics from the robot, and directly drive the motors (using step controllers) from emc2 to make it work
sorry for the late reply
The robot is using Servo's
ok, then servo controllers
emc2 isn't suited communicating with "smart" hardware using serial protocols
[07:56:52] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign
I'm using a laptop
gah i want moneys now! :)
Why MrSunshine :)
mindThomas: then emc2 won't work
Do you need to use a parallel port?
first of all, you need a proper PC for realtime
laptops are crappy for that
mindThomas, to buy steppers controller and powersupply for my mill =)
(because of all the 'smarts' inside: cpu speed throttling, etc)
cpu speed throttling can be disabled? :)
ohh, but I can make another RS232 board myself
to always go max ? :)
cpu speed throttling, on a laptop?
is that what you are talking about?
but isnt that in stationary pcs also ? :)
alex_joni? also when it is plugged into a power supply?
MrSunshine_: not completely
thermal design is also a problem
I've seen laptops which cause a huge latency spike when the CPU cooler turned on
which is something you couldn't change
but these are just 2 examples of things that can happen.. there are virtually dozens inside a laptop
you might be lucky and it works, or you might not
this is only for educational purposes
mindThomas: that's irrelevant
the robot should only grab a thing and move it around
it doesn't have to be fast
a non-working system isn't any good for educational purposes
even for educational purposes
move it around in world coords?
I see 3 possible ways to fix it.. just a moment
1. fix emc2 to make it work with a serial connection to a smart controller
2. change your hardware so that emc2 interfaces directly with the motor controller and reads the feedback
3. write a custom app that sends position to the robot and makes it move where it should
1 - you need extensive knowledge of emc2, and probably 3-4 months of work (the outcome is not sure, it might not be possible)
2 - you need hardware: PC + control board + motor drives (some you might build, some you might buy)
3 - probably the simplest, but needs some coding
I've got alot of programming, so I know programming in both Visual C++ and C for microcontrollers such as AVR and PIC
The servo's on the robot i've got doesn't give any feedback
as Servo's are positioning to the correct place, they don't have to give any information back, like the steppers
well isnt just like 1uS off going to put it in the wrong position ?
and then the next 1uS next time
etc and that piles up
thats why you have feedback
steppers also "need" feedback to correctly be able to position time after time .. specialy at load
1uS, what are you talking about?
so steppers arent a sure deal :)
mindThomas, or ms or whatever
as you pulse to the servo for a given time and it moves a given distance
but with the RS232 board I have
you just send the specific position
and the board takes care of the correct pulsing, not the computer :)
mindThomas: then you might hack emc2 .. maybe
you use a sim-only configuration
and take the current joint positions and send them through serial
and hope for the best
(you can do this by writing a HAL userspace component)
it might probably be fastest/easiest in python
mindThomas: I was also thinking about this solution
I haven't dealt with Python before
In school we normally doesn't use Linux
therefor I don't know much about Linux programming
I just saw ENC2 used in youtube video
and then I thought that might be the thing I was looking for
is it worth replacing the bearings in a Black & Decker? this one is bullshit
i stoped buying b&d stuff years back because of the rather weak build quality ,, probablay better to replace the lot with a better make
that meddings woulda done me :)
at the local car boot sale they ofen sell the nikita and such ex contracter drills etc ,, used with the bearings near end of life ,, now they would be worth replacing and reparing for home use
a b&d one used in the same environment as they where would not last a week
if I can find one of them with no hammer action and a 44mm collar, I'll be happy
I do have an ancient 140W B&D but it won't fit in this press
on the ones i have seen the hanner action is selectable
yeah and momma selects it until it all turns to cheese
the bosh one i have had that for over 20 years ,, the chuck bearings are just starting to go in it
this is the drill she & my sis "poke holes in walls" with (with my HSS bits often as not)
argh I thought I was winning when I got this drill stand instead of a proper press. the stand is lovely but now I gotta look for a drill
mindThomas: is it the emc GUI you want for your robot? with all the jog buttons and DRO type stuff?
bosh, nikita? What are these brands?
bosch & makita. if it's readable it's good :)
damn I wish this ancient B&D had a 44mm collar, the bearings are lovely
ah yes, makita, not nikita, as in kruschev
I have a bosch angle grinder that is ancient
seems that complaning about people picking on others about spelling and typos just provokes them
do do it more
fuck it can see that its done on perpouse godbye
fuck it can see that its done on perpouse goodbye even since you cant stand errors and when you make some then dont expect to be treat any better than you have done
ok that guy REALY needs anger management
quick question - how do I determine max velocity and max acceleration with a hm2 configuration? stepconf can do it but only for parports it seems
are you asking how to determine what the motors can do, so that you can enter the correct values into your ini file?
or now to tell what the limits are set to, from the ini file and stepgen parameters?
I'm trying to figure what the motors can do in a hm2 stepper setup, so I can fill in the ini file with realistic values instead of looking into my crystal ball
the motors/drives will be the limiting factor, so thisis a mechanical question
what drivers are you using?
these are mechapro.de HPStep 4xmicrostepping, can do 4.5 amps, currently at 3 amps or so
maybe excising the max velocity/accel test from stepconf is a way to do it
yes, that's one way to do it
so the hm2 stepper folks are all guessing, right :-?
it's likely that the mesa stepgen can generate steps faster than the driver can handle them, and way faster than the motor can turn
yes, it can
you can set up a bare HAL test environment, similar to what the stepgen test does
err - stepconf
yes, that looks like my night shift project
I believe stepconf uses a limit2 block for accel / vel limiting, and a siggen to output a square wave
ok, will dive into da code
the limits can be tweaked while the system is running
I don't know if there's a standalone HAL file, but there ought to be one, with a pyvcp panel to set the limits
hm, another way to more reliably detect step loss would be a probe - touch off, move away slowly to safe distance, accelerate/move back fast and then probe again to see wether the values match
couldn't you just tweak the settings in axis in the Show HAL Configuration window then write down the best settings and change your ini
you don't need that much information
you'll hear if a stepper stalls
and that's what you want to get to - use a relatively low max velocity and increase acceleration until the steppers stall
then back off some amount (maybe as low as 50% of the stall accel)
good point - we're back to my "aural probe concept"
once you have the accel set, you can increase the velocity until you hear the steppers stall at full speed
doing that, you need to have moves long enough to get up to full speed (whatever that is at the time)
yes, your ears are good at detecting problems :)
ok, I'll give it a stab - thanks a lot
jthornton, yes and no - the TP only loads accel/vel limits at startup, so you can't change that with "Show HAL"
ok, didn't know that part
mhaberler, if you look at the stepconf source, there is a function called "test_axis", which contains the text you would want to start with in a bare HAL setup
it's at line 1492 in the current git version
the line "halrun.write (""" ... is the beginning
hmmm. then again, that would need a lot of massaging to get it to work for mesa, so maybe starting from scratch might be better
mhaberler: you can tune your mesa setup from pcconf if you have dev
mhaberler: are these plots from a hm2 stepper system? http://mah.priv.at/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/emc-syncmove/45ppr-accel300-dampened-oscillation.png?revision=1.1&root=CVS&view=markup
I'm asking because I don't understand why you have this kind of ferror
it has nothing to do with threading. it seems like a step generator setting?
I mean I bet you see these kinds of ferrors for all moves.
the threading issue is whether the purple line is straight - and it looks straight to me
last night (US) there was lots of discussion on #emc-devel about this issue - you might want to read those logs
re: mindThomas and the 6dof robot..
the pics and the command format "# 5 P500 # 6 P800 # 4 P1000 # 3 P1200 # 2 P1500 # 1 2500"...
they show the robot is a tiny 6dof using rc servo motors. and the controller is (i think) a serial ascii command to pwm channel thingy.
he's not using any feedback right now, he's not using cartesian now.
if he uses SIM to get the current joint positions, how would the joint posn's be transferred to the serial device? thru HAL?
( feedback is all visual, delay between motions is entirely up to operator, not repeatable, not cnc, just ideal math output translated to pwm channel)
haha "exterminate!" http://arexx.com.cn/UploadFiles/20081120152918134.jpg
heh - the Daleks have arrived
and their 'lathe' looks suspiciously mill - like (stepper to band drives) http://www.arexx.com.cn/UploadFiles/2008226135012398.jpg
cradek - yes, a 5i20/hm2 stepper config
the manual on the arm ( in chinese) shows that there's a simpler hand pendant with just jointNmore, jointNless buttons. http://www.arexx.com.cn/uploadfiles/RP6_RobotArm_manual.pdf
tom3p: re mindThomas, positions could be transfered via userspace serial port hal driver
micges_work: are there any serial drivers for hal ?
tom3p: nope but it's easy to write
the modbus drivers use serial
thanks - located pncconf, will give it a stab
remember - it's a work in progress :)
now here's a handy device: http://thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1268&ID=1895
haha portable tiny hard drives... 'whats that in your pocket or...'
just happy to see you
hmm, 2 drive raid , hot swappable, yes, handy
and the ability to copy from external drive to external drive
and connect via esata, so it's faster
micges_work: would the 'serport' driver ( it exists ) be a starting place?
that one doesn't actually move any data around, it only uses the control lines as I/O
jepler had made a simple serial IO thing, but I don't know if the code still exists
how cheap could one make a gantry style mill do you think?
I think it talked to an AVR based board, the serial protocol was named "DPP", for "Dumbest Possible Protocol"
excluding the electrics side of things
+-1mm or so would be fine
$50 in wood and fasteners
The missus is thinking of doing some fancy doors
get some nice thick oak
I was going to use 24mm (inch) MDF
got any URL's on anybody who has done "cheapest possible gantry mills"?
you can get a lot done with pipe and drawer slides, but you'll definitely need to think about what you want to cut with it, and how fast
tom3p: you need serial driver for sth?
MDF and a wet week is fine
micges_work: i wondered how to do it, i now see it ends up with inb or outb to a file device. just wondering how.
yes, if driver is in rt
if it is in userspace it is few lines of python code
especially for a write-only system
(like sending positions to a controller)
thx , i found some of the jepler arduino serial python code, uses python-serial ( only reads )
nope, got write too arduino.analog-out-## and thats pwm, i think midThomas has hope.
BJT-Work is now known as JT-Work
mhaberler: john k points out that interpolated position could be added to hm2. but if you have a mesa you can use a high resolution encoder and be done - do you have one?
does irssi wrap long lines for you?
[14:09:49] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/irssi.png
last time I tried position-interpolated on the sw encoder it helped a lot
if there's no software fix I'll throw hardware at it and get me a higher res encoder - just read up on the #emc-devel discussion yesterday and begin to understand where this behaviour comes from -starts to make sense
looks we dont need quadrature dividers, but quadrature multipliers ;-)
jymm, cool :)
SWPadnos: Yeah, I thought so.
i love the airport security conversation
Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
this is interesting: http://www.austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Linear-Encoders
do they sell the strips/rings?
[16:13:38] <alex_joni> http://www.siko.de/produkte/magline/magnetbaender/details/mb100/
tom3p: I don't think so..
but there are others that do
is that only the chips ?
is a strip neeed for a Linear-Encoder to work?
rats, old cassete tape isnt strong enuf field
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
Any ideas how to split a -1, 0, +1 signal into three individual bits in HAL?
signal for what?
classicladder can easily manipulate s32 values like that (although this sounds like an odd hal signal - what is it?)
|--[%IW0 < 0]---(%Q0)---| etc etc
It's the abs-hat0y-position joypad value. It comes into HAL as -1 for left, +1 for right and 0 for centre. I was intending using it to drive spindle on, spindle off, spindle faster, spindle slower
if it's a float, wcomp might be the right choice. It has "out" (between), "over" and "under" outputs. You'd set min -.5 and max .5 or something
is it s32 or float?
wcomp looks about ideal. I hadn't read down the list as far as w
I am not sure what it is, as the real CNC machine that I am VNC-ing to doesn't have it plugged in. Time to plug it in, I guess.
Unfortunately it won't load the components without the hardware
Actually, that might prove bothersome. Is there a way to ignore a HALFILE that fails? It might be annoying if EMC will only boot if it can find the Joysick device in the USB port.
I don't think you can do it from the emc run script, but halrun -k will "k"eep going even if it wncounters errors
err, halcmd -k
So, no try-catch in HAL then?
OK, So I might want two different .ini files then.
Does anyone know what determines the step size of the spindle increase/decrease buttons?
OK, no problem
M4 Sxxx works when I care.
I have a python question... is the bwidget part of Tkinter or is it a TCL addon or a simple python lib? My program runs fine on my emc2 machine but fails on windows. thanks
I think bwidget is a separate package
thanks cradek... thats too bad, now I have to choose between convenience and portability
[20:28:44] <cradek> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bwidget
has anyone tried kexec-acpi-shutdown.sh ?
is there a shortcut to adding multiple functions to a thread?
some components have a special "run all of them" function name
I am thinking that loadrt mult2 count = 100 and then addf.0 servo-thread ... addf.100 servo-thread would be tedious
Not that I plan on doing that
yeah I don't think mult2 has it
would take 100 hal commands to add them
supplementary question, why does the joypad-pendant example used sum2 with a gain of -1 instead of mult2 with an in0 of -1?
(To reverse an axis)
does it save a floating point operation perhaps?
always worthwhile in a program that is destined to run on ARM one day
posh ARM have fpu these days, but I'm thinking NDS territory
but on x86 mult is just as quick as add these days
Thing is, 'tis all FP anyway, so seems daft
sum2 is in0 * gain0 + in1 * gain1 + offset
mult2 is in0 * in1
If the aim is to negate a number, then the latter seems more logical.
(And subtracting from zero probably even more so)
andypugh: maybe that is leftover from some magic
Though I am not sure if FP subtraction is quicker than multiolication
Indeed, perhaps he was using gain at some point.
the idea these days is to write what appears logical, and let the compiler worry about the code
This is in HAL
[21:33:45] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
if gain is hard coded to -1, maybe that makes some sense
No, needs a setp instruction, which works equally well for mult2
Does anyone know of a USB gamepad with decent analog range? My cheapy sticks at 127 counts for about the first 20 degrees of left movement, then goes to 0 in the next 10, then does nothing for the next 15.
No amount of meddling with gain curves is going to help that. The right-travel is better, but still hits full scale with lots of travel left.
andypugh, that could be a deliberate "dead zone" inserted by the driver
No, this is raw counts.
And it is not symmetrical, at all.
Going right the counts drop as soon as the stick moves.
you can make a table to make it linear
I am assuming that the broken driver CD it came with was for software config, not firmware cal
it's not firmware usually
I can't linearise if the raw counts don't change.
the logitech on that wiki page is good. I have one, but cheapo PSX ones in a SuperJoy adaptor are just as good
Yeah, I am looking at the rumblepads if they have a better analogue performance, but reviews on that aspect are mixed.
(Though I wonder if the bad reviewer had forgotten to press the "mode" button, as I did?
I get a good sweep, and any dead zone is only one inserted to stop jitter
<thinks: is the mode button status programmable>
Cordless or wired?
Hmm, I wonder if I can make new buttons with meaningful logos on them :-)
probably easier to make a whole pendant with big square buttons
Not USB it isn't.
Wiimote is wireless & one-handed
USB isn't that scary. you can do it with a PIC
No, _you_ can do it with a PIC.
make the pendant big enough to fit the logitech pcb
Now that would work, good thinking.
I wish NDS had usb, both kinds
there's a new Samsung touchscreen phone that's almost as cheap as a DS
nds = nintendo. bothkinds = host + device (A+B)
Ooh! that reminds me, I nearly paid £55 for an Apple mouse today. The new one is cordless and has no buttons. The whole top is touch-sensitive and responds to gestures in an iphone-like way
usb2go does both kinds, and p2p through the 5 pin mini usb
a touch sensitive mouse sounds awful - you can't rest your hand on it?
As I am sick of dismantling my Mighty Mouse scroll-ball to remove fluff to persuade it to work again....
I got coffee in my mouse button yesterday, and it's still cruchy, so I could be sold on no buttons right now
No, it just uses the touch-sensitive-ness to work out what button you pressed, it still has a whole-body click
The current mouse is the same, no physical buttons, the whole top moves, and it looks at where you presses to work out what you meant. The new one lets you swipe up-down-left-right to scroll too
I need to get my ball mouse out again. I got a pixelling job and balls are still best for that
gotta grow my thumbnail
I think you will find they have all been cannibalised by cnc-geeks
OK, elaborate on the thumbnail thing?
I never thought of that. these serial mice are now rare and precious. good job I got a few
ball mice work great for 1/2 hour, then you need to scrape the rollers with a hard flexible tool
I used to do graphics pixel-by pixel by writing lines of basic code. It never occurred to me to write a drawing package :-)
'Course we had fewer pixels back then
i typed them in in hex :)
that was posh. graph paper and a sector editor
Yeah, makes sense for sprites, I was doing loading screens
I typed the loading/title screen for MM in hex
but for the animated sprites, I did write a special editor with a key for each frame
a technique that only works for 4 frames, because you only have 4 fingers on your left hand
The MM loading screen inspired me to consider making a number plate out of black and yellow scotchlite and black and yellow gloss that would show a different number under flash photography
xbox controller would be better for conversion, as the buttons always wear out first
so one with dodgy buttons but good sticks is easy to obtain
and it has 2 more analog inputs
I just remembered that worldofspectrum gives me a credit for a game I didn't write, because I signed the loading screen :-)
that's a credit
the last commercial thing I did has 66 names on it, including somebody's dog
[22:04:58] <andypugh> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekpub.cgi?regexp=^Andy+Pugh$
Yeah, we were different ends of the market. I played your games to death, I doubt you ever saw mine.
and I'm not seeing them now :( mouse button seized up entirely
right, time to break out ye olde ballmouse
Sounds like the time to splash out on the new Apple one and tell me how it works in practice.
time to splash out some soapy water in my main mouse. I don't have a mouse mat
I'd forgotton about them
I bought a nice gloss-white computer desk from Ikea, that didn't work at all with an optical mouse...
maybe if I spent more than £4 on my optical mice they'd be good enough for pixelling too
tape a piece of paper to the desk
white works great too
I find it doesn't. wood/denim/couch arm great tho
I do use £4 mice tho :)
I guess I buy $20 mice instead of $10 ones
This new $75 Apple mouse apparently uses laser-tracking...
there are plenty of $30 laser mice around
[22:20:32] <andypugh> http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
the buttons in this one look like proper little microswitches
not really fit for heavy use tho, but they'd do for an 8"x8" plastic mahine
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
You still looking to build a machine Matt?
construction is under way
I've got a solid drilling machine now for putting the bold holes in the ends of my timbers
with cross-dowels, so it's all adjustable at the end
2 pairs of shelf sliders. one pair as they would be in a shelf, and the other pair opposing them and at right angles to provide lateral stiffness
OK, because Frallor (or whatever he is called) was trying to move his aluminium and steel one on to a new home. I think that money was likely to be involved too, though.
AchiestDragon offered me his, but very day I'd spent on frame-making tools
I'm done spending on the frame. all new money is on motors & controller
And I cant see a way to make a decent Z axis without some metalworking tools
I see now why all machines have the motors on the outside. for speedy cannabalism :)
the printer trade could have gone that way. "How fast is it?", "How fast do you want it to be, Sir?"
I saw a really interesting printer at Systime Computers a long time ago. It had a hammer for every character position, and a continuous loop of characters spinning at high speed undereath. When the right character was under the right hammer, bang. It was optimised with more than one of the common characters, and could fire all the hammers as the same time if necessary.
that's a classic line printer, as in LPT1:
Yes, though technically a band printer in this case
(Guess who is reading the wiki page?)
I'm wondering if the solenoids off a print head are any use. tiny chisels?
Which reminds me of something else I have been idly pondering. You are looking to make woodcarvings I believe? I wonder if anyone has tried doing that with a Puma robot, an air chisel and actual chisel bits?
andypugh: we had a few of those - the paper flew out of them
You would get a much more authentic finish than routing.
Aye, the speed was what impressed me.
and you good do walls with a puma
and block of marble
However, I suspect that you would need to have a vision system to see when the grain was running in.
your G code would probably ignore that, or make assumptions based on regular grain direction
so keep the chisel sharp
[22:55:20] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp0_on_fire
it would be better guided than a hand-held chisel probably
More to it than sharp chisels, in my limited experience. But I have only ever tried carving oak.
oak I will rout :)
Hi I am getting closer to being done with my retrofit. I have a relay contact that indicates that the spindle is running. I was wondering how to hook that up so that the program will pause until the spindle running input goes "True".
john_f_, there's an "at-speed" input to the motion controller
or get one of those angled saw heads for dremels, and put a rotating axis on (I want this for glasscutting anyway)
you can feed it with whatever you want
OK I wasn't sure if that was a good use for that inptu. I will do it.
you may want to AND it with an actual check for the spindle being close to the correct speed :)
the wcomp (window comparator) component can be useful there
don't have an encoder on the spindle yet
is there an output from the VFD?
you can also use a time delay in HAL - just wait 5 seconds or something after the "spindle on" input goes true
Will do that in the future when I get a VFD right now it is just the BP variable speed head
I suppose for a steerable saw, it would be better to make it belt driven and have the motor rotate with the blade, rather than use a crown gear
does "rotate about Z axis" have a usual name?
rotation around Z is usually the C axis
MattyMatt: Sounds more rugged
yeah the spindle would be supported both sides
for the more modestly size machine, piezo chisels can carve stone
not very predictable tho, apparently. it's good for breaking up boulders
Actually, I wouldn't have a bearing each side, as that means you can't cut hard against a shoulder
Probably bearings each side of the belt, but have the blade dished and cantilevered.
ah lasers are getting cheaper every year :)
[23:08:59] <andypugh> http://toolmonger.com/2007/07/16/chainsaw-carve-with-your-angle-grinder/
nice, but I don't have ready access to freshly felled trees
except in the park. there's 90 yo oaks just ready to harvest
I am sure that it would carve less recently felled trees. We found a chainsaw quite handy for mortice and tenon joints rebuilding my dad's house.
by rights they should, and plant fresh ones before these ones rot
90 years is reasonably young for an Oak though.
these ones all give the impression they'll be hollow in 20 years, or they'll need props under the branches
the straight ones look like fine timber tho, the kind everyone moans they can't get when they've got a simple cathedral roof to renovate
I can suggest this on IRC :) I wouldn't dream of saying it locally. I'd get lynched
We found our wood locally, in fact my dad remembered the trees as saplings when he was little.
All felled and sawn on site by a portable sawmill. This is the actual wood being cut. http://www.bodgesoc.org/wood2.jpg
I call my table saw a sawmill. 14" blade
so far I've only used half of it (for thicknessing)
tomp is now known as tom3p
it has opened the possibility of squariing telephone poles. they are the cheapest massive timbers I can get readily
woohoo, Alexey Starikovskiy wrote: ... a K45... with 2 to 8 uS latency thats a 99$ barebones box ( u add cpu, mem,hd ). i tested before and it was crap.
i gotta find out how he got 2 to 8 microsecs latency! i was just packing it off to a niece and spent a day loading it with cutsey apps. ( she gets the ugly tower now ;)
i was just packing it off to a niece and spent a day loading it with cutsey apps. ( she gets the ugly tower now ;)
uh arent telephone poles stinky? creosote preservative?
I'm not sure why even a RT kernel is used for emc. A dos program could poll in better than 2 to 8 us
Are you confusing speed with accuracy?
just what he wrote in the mail list
I was asking MattyMatt
the whole polling loop could poll more often than that
Yeah, but the thing about the RT stuff is that your thread absolutely will be polled every cycle, nothing else can interfere.
You can have really slow systems that are real-time.
e.g. on a 266Mhz bus, you could do 266 memory ops in the loop and still poll every us
Spectrum was real-time, or the screen display wouldn't have worked :-)
more so the zx80
No, that was a good example of not real time. Every time you pressed a key it suspended the real-time thread and blanked the screen
so the answer to RTOS is not a fancy kernel, but to devote a cpu to every parameter
or at least one per axis
broadcast a sync signal perhaps
To an extent, yes. That is what the FPGA boards do, but you still ideally want to guarantee that they will be serviced regularly, if not necessarily frequently.
The thing is that if you are running a 25uS base thread everything in that thread is guaranteed to be polled every 25uS. The OS isn't going to wander off and check for MSN updates or whatever and forget to run the thread.
I had a really quite effective cam and crank signal emulator out of the parallel port of my laptop running a 100kHz loop in an excel macro of all things (Matlab managed 6Hz). It was fine except every few seconds Windows would steal the CPU and break the pulse train.
i need a CF to IDE adaptor before I install emc ubuntu
I'm down to one working pata drive, and I decided not to buy any more
better to spend the money on mobos with sata
I have never had a hard drive failure.
I had 3 in one night :p
Not even when I was using a 6 year old computer.
andypugh: Feel VERY VERY VERY lucky.
I only own 2, to three in a night would be tricky.
One in the EMC machine, one in this iMac
this was/is a crappy asus mobo. it has done it before. that drive only works for 10 minutes after an hour in the freezer now
I think I have only owned 6 hard drives in my life. There goes my geek-cred.
when the mobo hits 80C it's supposed to shut down, but what it does is somehow screw any drives in the machine
I so want to scrap that mobo, asap
Mine it for parts, with a blow-torch :-)
and that will free my one remaining good pata drive for cnc, but I'd rather have CF
Yeah, you don't need much storage space on the CNC machine, so solid state sounds sensible.
Assuming that is what you mean.
there's better parts on a 486 board
yeah that's what I mean
16GB of CF is cheap and reliable
and better for real time stuff, as you don't have Smart Drive delays