#emc | Logs for 2009-10-20

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[00:18:58] <jt-plasma> Hmm, you should never wait that long to clean the coolant tank on the band saw... nasty stuff
[00:31:43] <eric_unterhausen> how long is too long?
[00:35:10] <jt-plasma> I don't remember it was so long ago
[00:35:28] <jt-plasma> when I bought the band saw... about a year ago maybe
[00:36:45] <jt-plasma> 7075 sure does cut nice :)
[01:04:48] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/nBzMhv9T.jpg
[01:04:59] <skunkworks> took a hike tonight
[01:09:25] <cradek> is it beautiful there too?
[01:09:35] <skunkworks> :)
[01:09:44] <jt-plasma> skunkworks: nice
[01:09:57] <skunkworks> it is cool having a park in your back yard.
[01:10:06] <cradek> I love these nice late-summer days
[01:11:17] <skunkworks> granted we are way out of shape... And it is quite a hike but well worth it.
[01:14:16] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[01:17:54] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/b0hZuG.jpg
[01:19:47] <jt-plasma> above the high water mark for sure there
[01:22:52] <skunkworks> a few hundred feet
[01:49:58] <MattyMatt> do any drivers use split rail psu?
[01:50:18] <SWPadnos> how do you mean?
[01:50:35] <MattyMatt> +36V & -36V, like a high quality audio amp
[01:51:13] <SWPadnos> some AC servo drives do that internally, but they often take in AC directly and rectify it to get the +/- rails
[01:53:34] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking for a bipolar stepper. it occured to me when I saw the full bridge in the L6219 chip and remembered a hifi nut telling me the MOD used his prefered kind of audio amp as a motor controller
[01:56:36] <SWPadnos> most audio amps are linear and woefully inefficient (class A amps anyway), so although it might work (for smaller motors), it's probably not an ideal application
[02:02:55] <MattyMatt> the balanced feed to the motors would keep RFI down, I'm thinking
[02:03:50] <MattyMatt> ah, too much thinking, not enough soldering :) these L6219 chips will keep me going until I buy a damned driver board :)
[02:04:48] <jymm> * jymm gives SWPadnos the old AB amp punch =)
[02:05:06] <SWPadnos> I have Pioneer and Onkyo, thank you very much
[02:06:00] <MattyMatt> I have a big black sony A/B sitting doing nowt. idle psu.....
[02:07:38] <MattyMatt> I'll wait until I blow a channel or two before I do that :)
[02:08:13] <jymm> SWPadnos: I like Onkyo gear
[02:08:22] <SWPadnos> yeah, it's pretty good
[02:08:51] <SWPadnos> I got a cheapo home theater system for upstairs, so my wife would stop complaining about not being able to hear the TV (and DVDs)
[02:09:21] <SWPadnos> it turned out to be the Consumer Reports top pick for cheapo home-theater-in-a-box systems :)
[02:09:55] <jymm> Onkyo has been around for 60+ years, just low key for soem reason
[02:10:06] <MattyMatt> stereo amps are old hat now then :)
[02:10:08] <SWPadnos> they've had good gear for a long tim
[02:10:10] <SWPadnos> e
[02:10:11] <MattyMatt> grist for the mill
[02:10:27] <SWPadnos> yeah, if you only have two channels, you're at least 6 short
[02:11:09] <MattyMatt> stereo is enough for one bipolar motor tho %)
[02:11:27] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma listens to Eric Johnston's Cliffs of Dover
[02:11:31] <MattyMatt> ah stoppit stoppit no you cant
[02:11:31] <SWPadnos> you/d like to think that
[02:11:38] <SWPadnos> Johnson
[02:11:41] <SWPadnos> awesome tune
[02:12:23] <jt-plasma> yea it is
[02:12:53] <MattyMatt> only immediate drawback is removing the DC offset filter on the input to get it down to 0Hz
[02:13:11] <SWPadnos> the other issue would be clipping
[02:13:16] <MattyMatt> a lot easier when the amp comes in a kit with schematics
[02:14:26] <MattyMatt> any transistor amp has flat-topped clipping when you saturate it
[02:15:31] <SWPadnos> my point being that for a motor, you want to fully saturate for short periods of time (chopping), you don't want to apply continuous power that's directly proportional to the input
[02:15:51] <SWPadnos> well, it would be nice, but the losses are staggering for analog amps made for audio
[02:21:20] <MattyMatt> hmm yeah, I hadn't thought of that :) the audio amp might smooth PWM better than a power chopper
[02:21:47] <MattyMatt> this has to be tried, but not with my sony. I'll talk to the hifi nut about it again
[02:27:19] <jt-plasma> say goodnight Gracie
[02:27:25] <jt-plasma> goodnight all
[02:27:31] <skunkworks> good night Gracie
[02:28:00] <Valen> good night Gracie
[02:28:40] <skunkworks> (on WI public radio they play 'old time radio' every saturday and sunday night.. Sometimes they play the old burns and allen
[02:28:42] <MattyMatt> I like that kind of serendipity, like when someone discovered a 4001 cmos chip is a good signal amplifier when tickled at the threshold
[02:29:04] <MattyMatt> goodnight jt-plasma
[03:25:09] <ds3> hmmm
[03:34:59] <Dave911> >>Cliffs of Dover
[03:35:01] <Dave911> If you want to see some mind blowing guitar do a search on Youtube for Cliffs of Dover.. !
[03:36:02] <Dave911> What are you guys using for CAM software with EMC2 ??
[03:36:11] <MattyMatt> 4.43am here :) momma, want some mind blowing guitar?
[03:36:41] <Dave911> Always..!
[03:37:14] <Dave911> So either you are up early or up way too late.. ;-)
[03:37:36] <MattyMatt> uuuhm. early yeah. I slept till 1am
[03:38:04] <Dave911> On the nightshift ..? ;-)
[03:38:11] <Valen> we are currently writing it by hand but we are going to try and start using mastercam
[03:38:21] <MattyMatt> I'm just planning on using blender scripts to generate g code
[03:38:38] <Valen> I wasn't aware such a beast existed?
[03:38:58] <Dave911> Blender scripts??
[03:39:05] <MattyMatt> blender exists. I profess to be a programmer
[03:39:24] <MattyMatt> it's all x y & z
[03:39:32] <Valen> I know blender exists but something to do blender > g-code I haven't heard before
[03:39:40] <Dave911> That explains the odd hours .. ;-)
[03:41:10] <Dave911> Valen: Are you finding Mastercam to be sufficient friendly? I once tried it and it was very DOS like, and I would say user hostile.
[03:42:05] <Valen> dunno yet, My dad is looking at that side of things
[03:42:12] <Valen> He is trying mastercam X2
[03:42:18] <Valen> it seems fairly pointy clicky
[03:42:49] <Dave911> The version I tried was well before X2.
[03:43:44] <MattyMatt> blender's drawbacks are those that make it generally unfriendly for all engineering. it has no dimensioning and no concept of a primitive e.g. cylinder
[03:44:37] <MattyMatt> it has got some new curve types recently, and physics sim
[03:46:08] <MattyMatt> it's great fun making a brick arch bridge and loading it to destruction
[03:49:27] <MattyMatt> simulating a milling pass through a mesh will involve heavy use of the existing intersect script
[03:50:34] <Valen> physics sim is cool
[03:50:54] <Valen> Its kinda sucky nobody has made engineering mods for it
[03:51:12] <Valen> detailed moddeling of any real world environment would be challenging without it
[03:51:54] <MattyMatt> it has become a movie making tool thse days. it started life as a game asset modeller
[03:52:25] <Valen> even making games though
[03:52:48] <Valen> i dunno I did some 3d stuff a while ago for making the pretty pictures, I couldn't do it without dimensions lol
[03:53:26] <MattyMatt> it has other annoyances in that respect, in that you have no direct access to the index of a vertex in a mesh, which is a pain when your engine makes assumptions
[03:55:20] <MattyMatt> I have my own texture making tool, which I'll use as a basis for converting bump-maps to meshes to gcode etc, for routing 2.5D stuff
[04:02:02] <MattyMatt> someone just needs to invent a file format that defines objects as materials with a list of operations done on them. then blender just needs to import and export them
[04:09:10] <L84Supper> Blender exports to STL
[04:10:48] <L84Supper> Meshalb gets you to and from Mesh and STL
[04:11:29] <MattyMatt> STL looks like a pure surface facet format.
[04:12:21] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking of something that preserves info like "this hole was bored with an 8mm drill"
[04:12:45] <MattyMatt> "to such & such a tolerannce"
[04:12:54] <Valen> I think thats called an integrated cad/cam program
[04:13:02] <L84Supper> heh
[04:14:27] <L84Supper> what about the format for HeeksCAD?
[04:15:58] <MattyMatt> or the whole program :) that looks nice
[04:16:20] <L84Supper> or HeeksCNC
[04:17:00] <MattyMatt> 'pon my soul. that's all my software sorted
[04:17:34] <L84Supper> MattyMatt : what are you working on?
[04:17:37] <MattyMatt> I hope he doesn't use C++
[04:17:44] <L84Supper> sorry
[04:17:54] <MattyMatt> I'm still crafting my mk1 routing table
[04:17:58] <L84Supper> http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/
[04:19:55] <MattyMatt> ah well. I'm learning to adapt to C++, as long as he doesn't use templates
[04:21:26] <L84Supper> I haven't tried the whole chain from HeeksCAD to CNC to EMC
[04:22:05] <MattyMatt> it looks like I will as my very first cut
[04:22:55] <L84Supper> I can see some CNC machines coming from China using this approach
[04:23:30] <L84Supper> same for 3D printers or SLA
[04:23:35] <MattyMatt> do they do 3d scanning too? that's the missing link
[04:24:19] <L84Supper> 3d scan creates a point cloud
[04:24:25] <MattyMatt> I'll try that with my table while I'm saving for motors for the gantry
[04:25:00] <L84Supper> you just need to convert the cloud to mesh or whatever
[04:25:00] <MattyMatt> or a bump map, and the mesh can be made from that
[04:26:15] <MattyMatt> point cloud is easier to remove noise from probably
[04:26:32] <L84Supper> there are lots of point cloud to mesh or wire frame conversion tools
[04:26:54] <MattyMatt> yep I expected so
[04:29:18] <L84Supper> meshlab has it now
[04:29:19] <MattyMatt> bump maps are important for my plan. they are easy to view and manipulate by laypeople (my family, a bunch of art students)
[04:29:46] <MattyMatt> and I use them in my games, of course
[04:31:08] <MattyMatt> I see cnc as becoming more consumer oriented in future. a plastic device that produces items from a catalog
[04:32:27] <MattyMatt> "the replicator wheezed and rattled and produced...another replicator"
[04:32:37] <L84Supper> 3D Object Converter is another one to look at
[04:32:39] <MattyMatt> was that Clarke or Asimov? :)
[04:35:41] <L84Supper> it would be nice, unfortunately the monkeys running the derivative markets are trying to push us back to the stone age
[04:36:22] <L84Supper> well maybe not that far back
[04:38:00] <MattyMatt> if everyone had cnc, the cost of electricity and scrap plastic would be raised to keep us all in poverty
[04:38:22] <MattyMatt> it's an ago-old problem
[04:38:54] <MattyMatt> windmill tax
[04:42:28] <MattyMatt> aha. if I can nail a long pole to my wood, I can run it smoothly through my table saw without pausing to switch to push stick. that's leaving marks
[04:43:47] <MattyMatt> I had visions of a sliding clamp, but KISS
[04:46:00] <L84Supper> 3 axis mill for wood?
[04:46:11] <MattyMatt> yep. made from wood
[04:47:18] <MattyMatt> i might try some light metal dremeling too, but I'm aiming for art quality with the mk1
[04:47:40] <MattyMatt> 0.1mm accuracy will be plenty
[04:47:53] <L84Supper> does the tolerance change based on the temp and humidity of the room it's in?
[04:48:42] <L84Supper> natural wood or a composite?
[04:49:03] <MattyMatt> I expect it will, but probably not enough for me to realign it every morning
[04:49:21] <MattyMatt> some old natural wood, and some new ply
[04:50:11] <L84Supper> would pressure treating the wood with a polymer resin be cheating?
[04:50:24] <MattyMatt> marine ply?
[04:50:52] <MattyMatt> I'm not worried about cheating, I'm worried about cheap
[04:51:49] <MattyMatt> I've got an old linear drive from ebay for the X axis.
[04:51:50] <L84Supper> I was just thinking about sealing the pores and gaps between the wood fibers so that it would be more stable over the deltas of temp and humidity
[04:52:10] <MattyMatt> it'll get 3 coats of polyurethane
[04:52:24] <MattyMatt> like all my woodwork :)
[04:52:26] <Valen> We are having difficulties with the Z axis of our mill
[04:52:41] <Valen> the ballscrew is "bent" and we were using that to run the linear scale
[04:52:47] <Valen> bad idea ;->
[04:54:18] <MattyMatt> running the ballscrew in reverse?
[04:55:01] <MattyMatt> this one has 10mm pitch. it seems to work just as well as a linear->rotary converter
[04:55:24] <Valen> nah we are using an optical linear scale to measure positon
[04:55:36] <Valen> problem is the scale reader is mounted to the ballnut
[04:55:42] <Valen> so its jumping up and down a fair bit
[04:55:49] <Valen> have to see how badly it affects things
[04:56:01] <Valen> the other axies have the scale mounted direct to the slide
[04:56:17] <L84Supper> I've seen some very strong and stable wood dust composites and some made from paper
[04:56:47] <MattyMatt> is MDF more stable than ply?
[04:57:07] <MattyMatt> I fail to see the appeal of MDF myself
[04:57:18] <L84Supper> I'm not sure of the resin : sawdust , so it may not qualify as "wood"
[04:58:05] <L84Supper> MDF is porous and not water resistant
[04:59:24] <MattyMatt> marine ply seems to be the best commonly available stuff, but it won't absorb glue
[05:00:11] <MattyMatt> I expect epoxy would stick if it's roughened up
[05:01:30] <L84Supper> sure or find out what polymer they use on the surface and find a suitable adhesive
[05:01:33] <MattyMatt> ah my machine will live in the house, so once it's built it should settle in quite quickly
[05:03:21] <L84Supper> phenol-formaldehyde resin
[05:04:05] <MattyMatt> that's what they use in ordinary ply, so maybe marine ply is just more of it
[05:06:55] <L84Supper> Urea-formaldehyde resins are used for indoor plywood
[05:07:05] <MattyMatt> yeah I'll have to look for a local source of marine ply
[05:07:22] <MattyMatt> but for now, I'm chopping up a desk I made
[05:07:46] <L84Supper> http://www.gp.com/chemical/wood.html
[05:12:34] <MattyMatt> that's nice to know if I ever go hi-tech, but I'll switch to steel by then
[05:13:10] <MattyMatt> it's probably cheaper than wood, once you've tooled up
[05:13:36] <L84Supper> it would be interesting to see how accurate a wood table could be made
[05:14:25] <MattyMatt> there's one in UK which uses melamine faces (genuine Formica I think) as the slides
[05:14:42] <L84Supper> I recall some audio gear co in the 80's claiming <0.001" tolerance on their enclosures
[05:15:56] <MattyMatt> I need to rig a disc sander to get flat ends
[05:16:35] <MattyMatt> 3" beams on a 4" sanding disc is the best I can manage I think. not ideal
[05:17:48] <L84Supper> it's starting to sound like a Leonardo da Vinci machine
[05:18:15] <MattyMatt> naah, it'll be quite neat
[05:18:44] <MattyMatt> except these beams do stick out the front where the original plans had fresh air
[05:19:53] <L84Supper> a friend of mine made all the wood models for this exhibit http://www.msichicago.org/scrapbook/scrapbook_exhibits/leonardo/models/index.html
[05:21:15] <L84Supper> some of the gears were fun to cut
[05:25:39] <MattyMatt> I thought the Romans had trip hammers
[05:27:29] <MattyMatt> I might make a wooden clock, just for the fun of cutting gears
[05:28:45] <MattyMatt> with a brass case, just to be perverse
[05:33:31] <MattyMatt> aha the traffic is driving boldly. it'll soon be time to fire up the sawmill
[05:34:08] <MattyMatt> I'll let the neighbours get to work first
[05:36:03] <L84Supper> maybe a steampunk mill run by EMC ... does GTK have a steampunk theme?
[05:37:06] <MattyMatt> I can't do steampunk. the X motion looks too aluminium
[05:38:06] <L84Supper> is it actually aluminum?
[05:38:50] <MattyMatt> yes, some unscratchable coating on it tho. I tried to scribe it when measuring the pitch
[05:39:31] <L84Supper> probably anodized
[05:39:49] <L84Supper> about 3 materials short of diamond for hardness
[05:40:39] <MattyMatt> it's a lovely thing. slide and ballscrew combined in a dustproof unit
[05:41:34] <MattyMatt> the slot has a spring steel cover, that must curve inside the slider
[05:41:36] <L84Supper> sure, ball screw linear actuator, I'm trying to sync a few up myself currently with EMC
[05:44:28] <MattyMatt> with servos? I hoped this one would have an encoder but no
[05:45:29] <L84Supper> yeah servos, +- 2 micron repeatability
[05:45:31] <MattyMatt> 10mm pitch will be a mismatch with my Y axis 1.25. at least it's a multiple
[05:47:29] <MattyMatt> bah, I'll probably save this actuator for the mk2. I'd need to gear it down with the motors I'm using
[05:49:15] <MattyMatt> or I'll dual screw it with one motor. direct drive the allthread and slave drive the ballscrew
[05:49:17] <L84Supper> night time for me
[05:50:02] <MattyMatt> good morning
[06:21:17] <Guest553> x
[06:21:45] <Guest553> Hello, is anyone there?
[06:22:06] <MattyMatt> i'm getting there
[06:26:17] <micges_work> good morning
[06:32:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was there, but came back
[06:42:18] <MattyMatt> I've been there, but it was rubbish
[06:42:58] <MattyMatt> ah, what larks
[07:38:43] <mIreland> Matt Ireland has been triumphantly wanging knurled 1/8NPT plugs off of a 1/2" al bar. Thanks all who suggested keeping the part chute, i have seen the light.
[07:38:54] <mIreland> anybody out there?
[07:39:09] <archivist> no
[07:39:26] <archivist> Im in there
[09:43:30] <AchiestDragon> hmmm bug in ubunto
[09:44:51] <AchiestDragon> wifi connect problem ,,, will connect but ,, if i connect ,,, later power machine down , power back up and try to reconnect it fails ,,, have to manulay power the router off and on before it will reconnect
[09:45:20] <AchiestDragon> only happens on the ubunto version same machine with eather suse or windows theres no problem
[09:45:26] <archivist> blame wifi, I use real wire
[09:45:40] <AchiestDragon> only happens in ubuntoo
[09:46:32] <AchiestDragon> real wire would be a slight problem as no free ports in router to plug the laptop into
[09:50:50] <AchiestDragon> cant see why it should only affect ubunto and not other linux distros ,,, but bug is reproducable every time
[10:26:05] <alex_joni> http://machinarium.net/demo/ <- cool one
[10:33:19] <jthornton> glad I'm not on dial up any more that would have taken an hour to d/l :)
[11:28:16] <Valen> probably the wifi firmware isnt re-initalisasing after a warm boot or something and redoing the router triggers it to do stuff
[11:43:47] <Guest591> hi
[11:52:17] <AchiestDragon> Valen: but it is not a problem other than in ubunto,,, the same machine, wifi connection and conditions is not a problem under any other os other than the ubunto/emc one
[11:52:38] <MrSunshine> ubonto ?
[11:52:44] <MrSunshine> what is that?
[11:53:01] <AchiestDragon> ubunto
[11:53:18] <MrSunshine> ubuntu ?
[11:54:13] <AchiestDragon> look if you just want to take the piss out of my spelling then stick your first attempt at it up your fucking ass ,, sad pethetic git
[11:54:27] <MrSunshine> haha
[11:54:34] <MrSunshine> wtf =)
[11:55:02] <AchiestDragon> go on you piss off then not me
[11:55:18] <AchiestDragon> aragant asshole
[11:55:27] <MrSunshine> AchiestDragon, you fucking defensive "git", i was asking what ubunto was ... i even searched for it on google incase there was a ubuntu flavor named that ... but sure, get all your rage out at once and go fuck yourself .. please
[11:55:46] <archivist> kids
[11:56:24] <jthornton> LOL
[11:56:35] <MrSunshine> damn that person should go to anger management :P
[12:13:15] <AchiestDragon> wonce biten 2 times shy wen they continue you just aotomaticaly fight back ,,, if that was not your reason then sorry ,, if it was then i have no mercy anymore
[12:22:19] <AchiestDragon> 40 years of it it becomes automatic
[12:23:58] <AchiestDragon> one of the resons im on disabilaty now , just cant handle it
[13:10:29] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:22:41] <L84Supper> "good thing you didn't mention anything about the dirty knife"
[13:25:03] <AchiestDragon> in irc guess the best would be a flying anvil screensaver
[13:50:31] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[13:55:21] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:58:14] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[14:01:30] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:05:28] <cradek> archivist: thanks for the photos of the show
[14:12:28] <archivist> np
[14:23:43] <MrSunshine> AchiestDragon, well you shouldnt just take fight as soon as someone asks somehting .... there was no harm ment.
[14:24:33] <AchiestDragon> maybe not ,, but from my past experiences there usualy was
[14:26:37] <MrSunshine> well you cant base your view of new people from old experiences
[14:27:07] <MrSunshine> ive been very agressive against "spelling cops" before also .. but it usaly shows quite soon if they are bad people or not ... do not judge right away
[14:27:22] <MrSunshine> as ive had a hard time both reading and writing
[14:29:24] <cradek> bore gauge calibrating standards are sure expensive ... wish I could think of something else I might already have that has a round hole with a known size
[14:29:33] <cradek> I'm wanting to calibrate my probe
[14:30:10] <AchiestDragon> when you see a stick , if youve been conditioned that there going to end up pokeing you with it , then you dont always see that the person with the stick is going to be any diferent ,, and dilsexia is not something that you can just get over eather
[14:30:56] <cradek> for centering I think if I probe a hole and turn the spindle 180 degrees and reprobe, I will know the amount it's off center (half the measured offset)
[14:32:01] <archivist> bore measuring has been done very accurately with air pressure
[14:32:48] <cradek> hm I could just ream a hole with a new reamer and be fairly confident
[14:33:46] <archivist> its been a pain here especially with tiny holes
[14:34:20] <cradek> yeah for this, any size is fine
[14:34:23] <MrSunshine> AchiestDragon, still, dont judge people online directly ... my "spelling cop" thing as you took it was just a simple questions .. what is "ubunto" if its a new flavour of unbuntu like kbuntu or whatever they are named, or a fork or whatever
[14:34:26] <cradek> well over 10mm or so (probe is 6mm)
[14:34:38] <MrSunshine> and you just jumped at my throught directly
[14:34:40] <cradek> MrSunshine: move on! move on!
[14:35:46] <archivist> 10mm barn door, use digital vernier
[14:35:47] <MrSunshine> =)
[14:36:22] <cradek> archivist: you don't understand - I want a known round hole of a known size
[14:36:29] <archivist> depends on accuracy you want
[14:36:34] <cradek> you can't measure roundness with calipers
[14:37:22] <cradek> I want .0001 inch
[14:37:52] <cradek> dowel pins have known size but I think they are not particularly round
[14:39:36] <archivist> the 5 sided out of round is countered by a 3 point measuring tool
[14:39:53] <cradek> yep, which I don't have
[14:40:20] <archivist> rotating a single point probe is as good or bad as the spindle
[14:41:46] <cradek> http://precisionballs.com/CMM/CMM-7Page1.php
[14:41:55] <cradek> would be very nice, but more than I want to spend
[14:42:23] <cradek> and any old bore standard seems to be > $60
[14:42:59] <frallzor> hello boygirls
[14:44:39] <archivist> make one close enough by stealing from a new ball race
[14:47:57] <MrSunshine> man i want money now so i can buy the motors and stuff i need for the mill =)
[14:48:17] <MrSunshine> abou 1400 USD it will end up at at the end :P
[14:48:19] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[14:48:26] <MrSunshine> that is the mill, milling bits, motors, driver, powersupply
[14:56:07] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[15:11:31] <tom3p> xemet's G5.2 G5.3 are not in Gcode guide, are they gone? (nurbs)... oh "The development version currently (6/20/2009) has the nurbs patch added."... nevermind
[15:12:12] <cradek> it's in there - doesn't seem to work fully right
[15:27:51] <jymm> Morning
[15:30:16] <tom3p> i looked at the gcode of butterfly.. its a begin(G5.2)...list of poles... end of list(g5.3).
[15:30:21] <tom3p> ´╗┐carves a line from beg to end with those 'attractors'. nice.
[15:30:22] <tom3p> ´╗┐ doesnt go thru the intermediates.
[15:31:33] <tom3p> (edited the gcode so AXIS went back to the points & i could see the diff)
[15:33:03] <tom3p> the explanatory pdf is a web page saying Move along, nothing to see here.. :-/
[15:34:29] <frallzor> MrSunshine
[15:34:31] <frallzor> =P
[15:53:39] <tom3p> probing to nurb http://www.seer.ufu.br/index.php/cieng/article/viewFile/655/593 and 5axis motion control http://www.cadanda.com/V2No6_13.pdf
[15:55:44] <archivist> I should give that last link a challenge, make me an escape wheel
[15:59:31] <Valen> AchiestDragon: what I meant was something in ubuntu isn't prodding the firmware in the adaptor right to get it out of whatever mode its in.
[16:00:53] <Valen> see if there is an updated driver available if its running something like madwifi
[16:01:03] <Valen> check for backports etc if your still using 8.04
[16:03:20] <tom3p> archivist: the stuff is from brigham young uni. good ideas about how to move fro visual design to cnc, but the most anti-union propaganda i ever read.
[16:28:10] <frallzor> so, noone dead today?
[16:49:23] <MrSunshine> what, pleople here dying ?
[17:11:36] <maximilian_h> Hey, does somebody know where in axis I can catch the window destroy so that I can add a "Are you really sure ?" message ?
[17:12:10] <tom3p> are you sure you want to destroy it? ;)
[17:12:19] <maximilian_h> Because for the second time now I wanted to resize the windows and accidentally closed it :(
[17:13:17] <maximilian_h> Are you sure you want to wipe your hdd ? :) I know I sound like an idiot, but things like that happen
[17:14:10] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[17:14:20] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[17:19:10] <micges> maximilian_h: in ~/.axisrc you must add 'root_window.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW", your_custom_function_at_exit)
[17:24:59] <micges> maximilian_h: like this: http://www.pastebin.ca/1633156
[17:25:09] <micges> (not tested)
[17:25:22] <MrSunshine> why is it that emc needs a "realtime" kernel but mach3 runs on windows? :)
[17:25:45] <MrSunshine> without any realtime midifications? :)
[17:27:15] <frallzor> magic
[17:28:03] <jymm> He's created/tweeked a VDM driver with higher than normal run level.
[17:28:25] <MrSunshine> hmm
[17:30:45] <MrSunshine> i dont get it realy :) what is needed of the OS to be able to run cnc software? :)
[17:31:08] <SWPadnos> any OS can run CNC software
[17:31:23] <SWPadnos> but different OSes will have different capabilities
[17:31:47] <SWPadnos> and may require certain kinds of add-on hardware to do certain things
[17:33:01] <MrSunshine> but why is the realtime thing needed then ? :)
[17:33:06] <MrSunshine> or "needed"
[17:33:23] <MrSunshine> lets say, if i set realtime priority to something in my OS all of the other stuff just halts ...
[17:33:41] <SWPadnos> I don't have the time to explain it to you, but there's plenty of information on the web for you to read :)
[17:33:48] <SWPadnos> then you can come back with more specific questions
[17:33:59] <MrSunshine> meh =)
[17:34:03] <MrSunshine> dont know what to look for realy :)
[17:34:24] <SWPadnos> it's trivial to write code that will run a CNC, and will be as realtime as you want, on any x86 processor before the Pentium (or Pentium 2)
[17:34:39] <SWPadnos> but letting anything else run at the same time introduces significant difficulty
[17:35:02] <SWPadnos> and having disk, betwork, or video driver support is pretty hard
[17:36:07] <MrSunshine> but computers should be fast enough to handle all that at almost the same time imo :P
[17:36:19] <SWPadnos> you clearly don't know all the parameters ;)
[17:36:37] <SWPadnos> (neither do I, but I know enough to know that what I want and what's possible aren't the same thing)
[17:36:38] <MrSunshine> nop =)
[17:37:01] <skunkworks_> 'the computer can play high def video - surely it should be able to run a simple cnc...'
[17:37:20] <maximilian_h> Hey Micges, thanks for your pointer
[17:37:21] <MrSunshine> feels like that :P
[17:37:33] <maximilian_h> I will try that tomorrow then
[17:37:37] <MrSunshine> skunkworks, and thats while showing HD movie and doing other stuff by the side :P
[17:39:05] <skunkworks_> MrSunshine: try this with mach... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/pent4-26ghz1.png
[17:39:35] <SWPadnos> just try playing an MP3 while Mach is running
[17:39:39] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ points MrSunshine to the task bar..
[17:39:54] <MrSunshine> skunkworks_, heh =)
[17:39:57] <SWPadnos> actually, starting Mach while Winamp is running (but not playing anything) caused my system to get very whacky
[17:40:30] <SWPadnos> all timers got totally screwed up - menus that would normally pop up in 2 seconds would take 10-20 seconds
[17:40:47] <SWPadnos> I don't think I ever waited long enough for a tooltip to pop up
[17:41:15] <micges> skunkworks_: you need more monitors/virtual desktops ;)
[17:41:20] <SWPadnos> and I had to reboot after I managed to shut fown Mach, since something (I don't know what) was left screwed up)
[17:41:54] <MrSunshine> hehe =)
[17:41:55] <SWPadnos> s/fown/down/
[17:43:19] <L84Supper> anyone ever have a latency issue with a VIA vt8237r PATA driver? random latency jump to ~120uS from ~10uS anywhere from 10-300min.
[17:43:31] <MrSunshine> say an OS like BeOS then, its superb in playing movies and sounds simultaniously
[17:43:46] <MrSunshine> on a very old computer you could run 3d apps, movies, sounds etc and nothing lagged
[17:43:46] <skunkworks_> micges: heh - yes. It acutally was a test to make sure there was no problems when ubuntu started using virtual memory.
[17:43:48] <SWPadnos> google for "latency" and then come back and ask questions
[17:43:56] <MrSunshine> while in windows it wold have lagged already at the start of the movie :P
[17:44:01] <L84Supper> QNX was always the real time champ
[17:44:17] <micges> but it's expensive
[17:46:27] <L84Supper> yeah, unless you're embedding it into 50K devices
[17:47:59] <micges> yep that's different
[17:49:57] <skunkworks_> L84Supper: what makes you think it is a the pata driver?
[17:51:27] <L84Supper> skunkworks : I've been disabling hardware one by one
[17:51:57] <SWPadnos> are you running ext3 or ext2?
[17:52:02] <SWPadnos> (or something else)
[17:52:30] <L84Supper> using the emc 8.04 install as is
[17:52:37] <SWPadnos> ok, so probably exy3
[17:52:47] <SWPadnos> take a look at whether kjournald is causing problems
[17:52:53] <L84Supper> pretty sure we didn't change it
[17:53:16] <SWPadnos> I switched one set of systems to ext2, which eliminated a problem that I saw was at least triggered by kjournald
[17:53:30] <L84Supper> yeah, will try to turn that off, I have noticed the jump at the same drive the drive chatters
[17:53:37] <SWPadnos> it could have been the driver though, and we were using PATA, but with an Intel ICH7 chipset
[17:54:16] <L84Supper> tried two different cn700 C7 vt8237r boards, same problem
[17:54:44] <L84Supper> only using it to control two servos for position
[17:56:43] <L84Supper> the graphics libs in 8.04 are so old it was a lot of work to get openchrome working
[17:58:02] <L84Supper> gpu performance shot way up with no effect to the occasional latency jump
[17:58:24] <SWPadnos> err - what did that mean? :)
[17:58:39] <SWPadnos> you got better rendering with no impact on latency?
[17:58:43] <L84Supper> yeah
[17:58:47] <SWPadnos> ah, ok :)
[17:59:01] <SWPadnos> (I wasn't sure if GPU usage had shot up for some reason)
[18:00:23] <cradek> does your pata drive have dma active?
[18:00:29] <L84Supper> GLXgears (a bad benchmark I know) went from ~100 - 4000
[18:00:44] <L84Supper> yes, DMA is on
[18:01:40] <L84Supper> I can copy and move large files without an issue but then 10-50 min later when doing nothing it will jump to ~120uS
[18:02:47] <L84Supper> starting firefox and flash will make it jump from 8uS to 12uS
[18:09:57] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYxd_urjS5s
[18:11:37] <L84Supper> skunkworks : how is that Harbor Freight Mill?
[18:12:41] <skunkworks_> no clue
[18:12:47] <skunkworks_> (I don't have one)
[18:14:11] <LawrenceG> looks like a nice conversion... big servo motors... I would have expected higher speeds, but there could be leadscrew issues f the pitch is too fine
[18:24:03] <cradek> I agree it looks a little slow - I expected to see geckos, but it has pico pwm servo amps
[18:24:21] <MrSunshine> i shall run emc from linux using vmware to run windows that uses vmware to run ubuntu/emc
[18:24:24] <MrSunshine> just to do it
[18:24:26] <MrSunshine> :P
[18:24:55] <frallzor> sounds silly
[18:25:02] <MrSunshine> aye it is
[18:25:11] <MrSunshine> but how many have done that in their lifetime ?
[18:25:43] <frallzor> probably more than one =P
[18:25:54] <tom3p> his screws are from cncfusion.com, i tried the 'deluxecncfusion.com' in his post then saw the missing space was needed
[18:27:02] <L84Supper> I'm just running two compumotor size 23 brushless servos ~10in-lb with some parker ball screw actuators
[18:28:50] <tom3p> i wonder which ballscrew kit was used that gave .002" blash
[18:29:47] <cradek> ouch
[18:30:00] <L84Supper> 120uS is about 12 microns of travel at the expected velocity
[18:48:21] <alex_joni> this is cool: http://www.roaring-design.no/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/egg1-600x401.jpg
[18:54:42] <skunkworks_> heh :)
[20:29:42] <Neo_The_User> Hi all. I am going to get EMC working in ArchLinux for AMD64 and i686 computers. I was wondering if anybody was interested and if there is anything I need to know, besides building the package and patching the kernel
[20:31:56] <SWPadnos> it's not terribly simple to do, but you more or less have the process right
[20:32:22] <Neo_The_User> right. Just curious about any licensing issues or anything
[20:32:51] <SWPadnos> patch kernel with RTAI, select the right RTAI options (not always so easy), build ADEOS enabled kernel package, build RTAI package for that kernel, build EMC2 package for that RTAI/kernel, done :)
[20:33:05] <SWPadnos> no, it's all GPL2 or LGPL2, AFAIK
[20:33:25] <SWPadnos> if you'd like to maintain packages for Arch, we'll be happy to host them on linuxcnc.org as well
[20:33:44] <Neo_The_User> yeah i was considering contributing to the project
[20:34:26] <SWPadnos> excellent
[20:35:12] <Neo_The_User> :) Be back in a minute
[20:35:48] <SWPadnos> if you want to do SMP or 64-bit builds, you may also want to take a look at the .config files for the kernels at http://www.linuxcnc.org/experimental/
[20:38:13] <L84Supper> SWPandos : he's in disrto building mode
[20:41:12] <L84Supper> turned off journaling, jitter down to 90uS, ubuntu hangs, reboot, FS corrupted, moving to Arch...
[20:44:18] <skunkworks_> you have done the normal stuff? not using on-board video? Usb memory sticks sometimes cause problems.. Smi?
[20:44:49] <frallzor> jesus tittiefucking christ, its so boring checking a BOM
[20:48:22] <SWPadnos> L84Supper, I suppose I should have mentioned that I set that system to mounr / read-only
[20:48:26] <SWPadnos> mount
[20:53:58] <andypugh> I am setting up a joypad as a pendant. What do you think of the idea of using the buttons that are built into the analogue joysticks to multiply the jog speed by a factor?
[20:55:12] <andypugh> In other news, my 7mA mains filter also trips the (30mA) RCD. So I think I will give up on them.
[20:55:28] <SWPadnos> buttons for up/down are OK, using an analog joystick input as the actual override value is a no-no
[20:56:01] <SWPadnos> oh - here I was thinking you were talking about FO or something
[20:56:30] <skunkworks_> heh
[20:56:31] <skunkworks_> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=186785&highlight=emc2
[20:56:32] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure you can do that for jog speed - I don't think there are any "hi/lo" HAL inputs to the motion controller/GUI
[20:57:36] <andypugh> I was thinking about using a system of multipliers in HAL to set the final jog speed.
[20:57:51] <andypugh> (This is assuming that you can do analogue jogging)
[20:58:09] <SWPadnos> if you're talking about using a jog wheel, then you can do that
[20:58:24] <SWPadnos> if you're talking about having buttons (like the keyboard) to jog, then I don't think so
[20:58:25] <andypugh> No, I am talking about an analogue joystick.
[20:58:49] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. I think there is an analog jog input to halui now
[20:59:08] <SWPadnos> or at least a sample HAL setup of how to accomplish the equivalent
[20:59:32] <andypugh> I was thinking about having the default jog very slow with the joystick, and then a seperate accellerator button.
[21:00:04] <cradek> a thing you hold down (with the other hand) to go fast instead of the default slow speed sounds good to me
[21:01:00] <andypugh> That's the idea, but then I noticed that there is a button built in to each joystick (push down fairly hard) and thought about using that as the accellerator
[21:01:55] <cradek> if you push the same thing that you jog with, I wouldn't
[21:02:17] <cradek> but try it and see if you like it - you'll know if it feels controllable or not
[21:02:35] <andypugh> I am fairly sure you could spoof it with linking a button for each axis jog, and then an analogue value linked to the jog-speed slider.
[21:03:24] <andypugh> I don't think there is any danger of pressing the button aspect by accident, it is pretty stiff. I suspect that most people don't realise that button is even there.
[21:04:26] <andypugh> I am then thinking of having spindle speed up-down on the digital joybuttons, so that just leaves the other 10 buttons to find uses for.
[21:04:48] <cradek> Unless you are an accomplished C programmer you will end up with an open loop system. ... Emc2 has the ability to work in true closed loop but the setup process is anything but trivial. C programming experience is necessary if you want anything more than a default configuration.
[21:04:59] <cradek> (what a bunch of hooey)
[21:05:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:05:35] <SWPadnos> I also liked the part about Mach being designed to work with a wide variety of hardware interfaces
[21:05:51] <SWPadnos> whereas you need a PhD to get EMC to work with anything at all
[21:05:56] <andypugh> Where are you reading this guff from?
[21:06:03] <SWPadnos> the link skunkworks posted
[21:06:35] <andypugh> Yeah, I got EMC working. Oh, wait :-)
[21:08:02] <skunkworks_> yah - you have to be a c programmer.
[21:08:17] <cradek> "Mach continues to be stepper based because that is what customers want."
[21:08:23] <andypugh> I can only assume that he is enough of not-a-c-programmer to think that HAL == C
[21:08:39] <L84Supper> SWPandos : yes it was set to RO
[21:13:32] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[21:27:39] <gtom_> hello, need some info about emcmodule.cc
[21:33:46] <andypugh> gtom_: This is probably the right place, but a lot of people only pop in here to check stuff every hour or so.
[21:34:51] <gtom_> ok, will post my question here...
[21:35:16] <gtom_> i wrote a freepascal GUI interface for emc
[21:35:50] <gtom_> its running, i can communicate with emc, jog axes, read the position etc...
[21:35:53] <alex_joni> gtom_: #emc-devel might be a better place
[21:35:56] <alex_joni> hallo, btw
[21:36:02] <gtom_> hello... :-)
[21:36:32] <gtom_> my work is on the way... :-9
[21:36:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni waits for the question ;)
[21:37:16] <gtom_> well, in emcmodule.cc there is a py interf calling >status.motion.axis[i].input
[21:37:30] <gtom_> & the same for output...
[21:37:59] <gtom_> what is the motion input&output???
[21:38:09] <alex_joni> good question ;)
[21:38:29] <gtom_> means you dont know it???
[21:38:33] <gtom_> :-)
[21:39:17] <alex_joni> not by heart.. lookig it up now
[21:40:09] <gtom_> will get another coffee...
[21:40:54] <alex_joni> double input; // current input position
[21:41:06] <alex_joni> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/nml_intf/emc_nml.hh;h=52b75bf642448dc8d94c02ab303b33f0612b101d;hb=HEAD#l471
[21:42:19] <alex_joni> status.motion.axis[i] is a class of type EMC_AXIS_STAT, part of MOTION_STAT, part of EMC_STAT
[21:42:48] <alex_joni> and input, output are some fields.. where the description is not _that_ clear what it means
[21:43:40] <gtom_> was looking for the code where axis generates the preview...
[21:43:42] <alex_joni> but you can see in src/emc/task/taskintf.cc where it gets updated with data from motion
[21:43:47] <alex_joni> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/task/taskintf.cc;h=1806414d12030be1a9007cd2935a7aefca716af3;hb=HEAD#l574
[21:44:05] <alex_joni> you'll see that input is stat[axis].input = joint->pos_fb
[21:44:10] <alex_joni> and output = pos_cmd
[21:44:29] <alex_joni> pos_fb = position feedback (e.g. where the joint really is right now)
[21:44:43] <alex_joni> and pos_cmd = position command (where emc2 commanded the joint to be)
[21:45:07] <alex_joni> gtom_: the preview is generated by AXIS using the internal (linked) interpreter
[21:45:33] <alex_joni> src/emc/rs274ngc/gcodemodule.cc
[21:45:52] <gtom_> ok, i'll take a look
[21:45:55] <alex_joni> that is something you can't connect to through NML
[21:46:25] <alex_joni> it's basicly a file with stubs for CANON commands
[21:46:32] <gtom_> has to be implemented using another "c" interface???
[21:46:45] <alex_joni> it works like this usually: task gets a command to open a file
[21:46:49] <alex_joni> it opens it and reads a line
[21:47:03] <alex_joni> the line gets sent to interpreter which converts it to canonical commands
[21:47:14] <alex_joni> the canonical commands are then called from emccanon.cc
[21:47:32] <alex_joni> those then get transformed to commands that get to task
[21:47:37] <alex_joni> and from there to motion or IO
[21:47:51] <alex_joni> in AXIS's case, there is another interpreter which reads the file
[21:48:10] <alex_joni> and the canonical commands get back to AXIS which draws the preview accordingly
[21:48:35] <gtom_> thank you i understand that now..
[21:48:41] <alex_joni> say you have a G1 in the file, instead of converting that to a linear_motion that gets to the motion controller, it gets converted to a call to AXIS that draws a line
[21:49:29] <alex_joni> maybe you can use the sai for this purpose too
[21:49:35] <alex_joni> sai = stand alone interpreter
[21:50:00] <gtom_> but this ist depending on the machine state, isnt ist??
[21:50:17] <gtom_> sry "it"
[21:50:20] <alex_joni> sai = stand alone interpreterwell.. interpreting a file is not really dependent on machine state
[21:50:32] <gtom_> but the output???
[21:50:37] <alex_joni> programs = auto
[21:50:50] <alex_joni> sorry.. which output do you means?
[21:50:52] <alex_joni> mean?
[21:51:27] <gtom_> the machine-position, offsets etc...
[21:51:56] <alex_joni> these are kept internally by the canonical interface
[21:52:22] <alex_joni> so the interpreter that AXIS links always knows where the tooltip will be when reaching a certain line
[21:53:30] <gtom_> so i need a 2nd interpreter, pass a file to this interpreter and catch the output... ?
[21:53:42] <alex_joni> soemthing like that
[21:53:52] <alex_joni> best would be to /join #emc-devel
[21:54:00] <alex_joni> and maybe wait for jepler's input
[21:54:19] <alex_joni> he did write this for AXIS, so maybe he has some advice how to do it 'right'
[21:54:44] <gtom_> yea.. will do that later, first i want to get the pascal stuff working...
[21:55:06] <alex_joni> would be easier to pick up an existing interface..
[21:55:22] <gtom_> thats what i made... :-)
[21:55:23] <alex_joni> like the python interface.. I'm sure there are easy-to-use python toolkits out there
[21:56:21] <gtom_> i like the delphi stuff... :-)
[21:56:37] <L84Supper> 98uS latency with ubuntu 8.04 and ext2
[21:58:32] <gtom_> thanks, bye... girlfrend is calling... :-)
[21:58:40] <alex_joni> gtom_: see you
[22:00:11] <andypugh> That seems high
[22:00:21] <andypugh> SMI?
[22:00:37] <alex_joni> andypugh: SMI is msec
[22:00:41] <alex_joni> not usec
[22:01:00] <andypugh> 98uS is getting close to msec
[22:01:16] <andypugh> Well, not that close
[22:01:34] <andypugh> My SMI issue was giving 200,000nS
[22:01:41] <andypugh> Every 64 secodns
[22:02:20] <alex_joni> right
[22:02:43] <andypugh> So mine was only twice his.
[22:02:50] <andypugh> (I think, it's late)
[22:04:22] <alex_joni> right.. same here
[22:04:23] <andypugh> It has been a while, but if L84Supper is seeing 98,000 on the screen in the latency test every minute or so, I would try the SMI patch.
[22:04:24] <L84Supper> usually steady around 12uS, then anywhere from 5 min to 9 hrs it jumps to >100uS
[22:04:26] <alex_joni> 1acm ;)
[22:04:58] <L84Supper> that's the odd part it's entirely random
[22:05:02] <alex_joni> L84Supper: sometimes it helps to stress the system, see when it happens
[22:05:08] <alex_joni> maybe a cooler turning on
[22:05:22] <alex_joni> (try switching all 'smart' things off from the BIOS)
[22:05:35] <alex_joni> like temp-related cooler speeds & such
[22:05:45] <andypugh> Have you tried the SMP kernel? I went from 25uS to 2.5uS by doing that and giving RTAI a core of its own to play with. But I still had 200,000 every 64 seconds till I put the smi patch in.
[22:06:07] <alex_joni> andypugh: got a scope?
[22:06:16] <alex_joni> a real one I mean..
[22:06:26] <andypugh> Yes, but I found it in a skip...
[22:06:42] <L84Supper> I have a coreboot image for this c7+cn700 board I may try to be certain of no SMI, everything in factory BIOS is off, I even tried disabling network, USB emulation etc one by one
[22:07:02] <alex_joni> doesn't matter.. I'd be interested to see how steady the parport output would be when using < 10 usec BASE_PERIOD
[22:07:03] <andypugh> Why do you ask?
[22:07:09] <jymm> alex_joni: http://www.predatorriflescopes.com/predator_rifle_scope.jpg
[22:07:17] <alex_joni> one of those days when you have too much time to spare
[22:07:32] <L84Supper> apm and acpi is also off
[22:07:36] <andypugh> Ah, I can't actually run 2.5uS base period.
[22:07:46] <alex_joni> a couple years ago I ran an emc2 at 6uS base period
[22:08:12] <alex_joni> one core only, but I had no hardware on it.. so I'm not sure how much jitter there was
[22:08:19] <alex_joni> maybe it was 6.5 usec
[22:08:43] <andypugh> I run 25uS as otherwise I get "Unexpected realtime delays"
[22:09:09] <alex_joni> hmmm..
[22:09:15] <andypugh> I can actually run 13uS but don't seem to gain anything other than flakiness.
[22:09:31] <alex_joni> right
[22:09:48] <L84Supper> I can stress the system at 100% for several minutes without a problem, then when at idle suddenly 125us
[22:09:52] <alex_joni> in that case.. latency-test should give you 13 :P
[22:10:02] <andypugh> 2.5uS latecy + 1.5uS step + 1.5uS space + 5uS Hold.....
[22:10:45] <alex_joni> step length and step space are given in base periods
[22:10:51] <alex_joni> if you're not double stepping
[22:11:02] <alex_joni> well.. given in ns, but rounded to base periods
[22:11:17] <andypugh> I know you can set step/space/hold to be multiple periods, but haven't bothered to edit the stepconf-created file
[22:11:56] <L84Supper> I'm only going to run two servos off the EPP 7i43, 120uS is about 12 microns of travel at the expected velocity
[22:12:23] <andypugh> Yeah, I was going to say that you can probably afford a missed step every 5 minutes
[22:12:44] <andypugh> But was scared of being branded a heretic
[22:13:18] <skunkworks_> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1217097&postcount=25
[22:13:19] <L84Supper> we should have the emc2 ARCH support later tonight or tomorrow
[22:13:24] <skunkworks_> boy - I ramble
[22:13:33] <andypugh> Is it possible that the latency test isn't too smart where a SMP systems are concerned?
[22:13:38] <alex_joni> for servos and 7i43 you'll be probably fine
[22:13:53] <alex_joni> L84Supper: you won't have a base thread running that fast for a servo machine
[22:14:09] <alex_joni> only the motion controller at the servo update rate
[22:14:12] <alex_joni> about 1msec
[22:14:26] <alex_joni> so 100us might still be "acceptable" for that
[22:15:26] <L84Supper> ok, what I was assuming
[22:16:41] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: like the thread title
[22:17:47] <L84Supper> the RTAI kernel in 8.04 is a bit old and VIA tends to be really behind on patches
[22:19:24] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: scary huh? ;)
[22:22:27] <L84Supper> has anyone looked at qt for EMC2?
[22:22:42] <alex_joni> this is amusing: "I was under the impression that Mach was first developed by Canada's goverment or the first 80% and released to the public...then finished by Artsoft...so emc may share the same core but did not actually write it"
[22:22:46] <alex_joni> L84Supper: yup
[22:22:51] <andypugh> I am finding the linuxcnc wiki a little too informative. There are at least 4 pages telling you how to jog with a joypad, all slightly different. I suspect that most of them are superceded, but I am not sure how to tell which...
[22:23:14] <alex_joni> andypugh: there should be one which uses halui and jog vel
[22:23:43] <andypugh> Yeah, spoofing it with sim-encoder is not required any more?
[22:24:12] <alex_joni> nah
[22:24:14] <alex_joni> andypugh: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[22:24:34] <andypugh> That was the one I was just about to read
[22:25:03] <alex_joni> (bottom of the pages you can see the dates too)
[22:25:06] <alex_joni> that helps sometimes
[22:25:13] <alex_joni> the link I posted is feb 2009
[22:25:20] <alex_joni> the sim-encoder one is 2007
[22:25:42] <andypugh> Would it make sense to purge the outmoded pages?
[22:25:58] <andypugh> Or is that not the Wiki-Way?
[22:26:04] <alex_joni> not sure purge..
[22:26:19] <alex_joni> maybe add a note ontop to suggest using another more 'recent' way to do it
[22:26:26] <andypugh> Maybe add a link to the latest at the top..
[22:27:03] <alex_joni> off to bed for me.. 2am coming up
[22:27:22] <alex_joni> andypugh: feel free to do it the wiki way (e.g. fix something that doesn't feel right..)
[22:44:45] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:57:48] <Neo_The_User> Does anybody know what kernels won't work with the RTAI patches?
[23:58:07] <Neo_The_User> I know 2.6.24 and 2.6.10 work fine