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[00:38:36] <L84Supper> is anyone besides Jon Elson working on the ARM port?
[00:41:15] <tom3p> Jon said "I am sending off a brand-new beagle board and accessories to Torsten Koschorrek" (of rtai crew) ... is a beagle arm?
[00:42:08] <L84Supper> yes, the beagleboard is an ARM Cortex8 by TI OMAP
[00:42:38] <L84Supper> http://beagleboard.org/
[00:44:33] <L84Supper> has Jon made his ARM tree public yet?
[00:44:37] <tom3p> i heard it mentioned for a couple years now, never google it before, it looks nice
[00:44:58] <tom3p> branch? dunno
[00:45:26] <L84Supper> the ARM soc's are showing up in new netbooks
[00:46:05] <L84Supper> I was planning on working on an ARM port soon, glad he beat me to it :)
[00:48:05] <L84Supper> for under $200 you'll be able to get an ARM + 10.1" LCD, flash and 1GB DDR netbook
[00:48:58] <L84Supper> the problem is having a fast interface to tie an fpga and IO card to
[00:50:05] <L84Supper> USB2.0, SD, 10/100 ethernet will be the only ports and IO
[00:53:54] <L84Supper> huh, there is a low latency patch for SDIO now, I wonder what the delays are?
[00:56:23] <L84Supper> "it's down to 132 us" on a 200MHz ARM926, unfortunately a bit slow for EMC
[01:04:03] <gtom> anybody interested in a emc/freepascal project
[01:05:46] <tom3p> L84Supper: beagle board has parallel data on the expansion bus connector
[01:06:31] <tom3p> gtom: everybody here is interested in all things emc :) ( i dont know pascal outside of := )
[01:06:49] <gtom> well, just finished the headers...
[01:07:52] <tom3p> http://www.freepascal.org/
[01:08:18] <gtom> it would be a "Delphi" like IDE to develop emc- software...
[01:37:24] <tom3p> jon says he's looking at the GPIO, and wants to speed it up ( GPIO is on the expansion connector )
[01:39:50] <ds3> tom3p: I really think he should use something else
[01:40:21] <ds3> something else as in another method of generating the signals not another board
[02:03:37] <mIreland> good evening all. My machine now works, I am down to sorting out programming.
[02:06:20] <mIreland> I am confused about how position is displayed. When I select 'zero coordinate' system my numbers don't change. I would expect position to change when different fixture offsets are selected
[02:07:21] <mIreland> when I type g92x0z0 things zero as I would expect. (it is a lathe)
[02:09:04] <mIreland> When i click 'touch off' the numbers dont change either. I expected either the displayed position to change or the tool table to be updated.
[02:11:40] <mIreland> These are likely to be operator errors and I will sort them all out in time. but I have a trickier question. I have 4 drills in a bank in one position of my turret. I will need to apply different offsets to each, but the turret has 8 positions only.
[02:12:16] <mIreland> Is there a way for me to define 11 tools, with 4 at a single turret position?
[02:20:05] <pcw_home> CricketChirp.ogg
[02:25:51] <toastyde1th> mireland: not easily, you have to put the values into the tool table by hand in EMC
[02:34:08] <mIreland> No problem. I seem to be editing .tbl by hand anyway. Is there a way to assign differing xz offsets on a single turret position?
[02:36:22] <mIreland> Otherwise I need to evaluate expressions in my gcode and add env variables for my 3 extra positions in my ini file. but i really really want to do it in the .tbl file and i suspect it isn't too hard.
[02:42:12] <L84Supper> tom3p : yes on the beagleboard , unfortunately not available on the ARM netbooks
[02:43:27] <L84Supper> there are some other ARM cortex8 boards coming out that will have the high speed IO available
[02:44:05] <mIreland> What is the easiest way to bump zero around by small amounts?
[02:55:25] <toastyde1th> EMC uses D and H offsets, right?
[02:56:33] <toastyde1th> mireland: how I do that on a different control isd just have an unused offset location, like 13 or 14 on my turrert (which don't exist)
[02:56:40] <toastyde1th> and when I have say, tool 2 up
[02:56:47] <toastyde1th> I call the offsets for tool 13, or 14
[02:59:19] <mIreland> good i'll try it, that sounds a lot like what i expected.
[03:02:44] <toastyde1th> i don't use emc or i'd tell you exactly how to do it
[03:02:45] <toastyde1th> sorry
[03:05:12] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[03:05:53] <cradek> yes the procedure would be to load tool 2 (T1 M6) and then apply the offsets for tool 13 (G43 H13) or tool 14 (G43 H14) etc
[03:06:41] <cradek> if you use cutter compensation you can use just G41 (use diameter from tool 2) or G41 D14 (use diameter from tool 14)
[03:06:50] <cradek> arg, let me fix that
[03:06:57] <cradek> yes the procedure would be to load tool 2 (T2 M6) and then apply the offsets for tool 13 (G43 H13) or tool 14 (G43 H14) etc
[03:07:57] <cradek> if when you touch off or change coordinate systems your readout doesn't change, you probably "view/machine position" set. change it to "view/relative position"
[03:08:30] <cradek> this is shown in the status bar - mine says Position: Relative Actual
[04:34:09] <mIreland> Thanks, I've begun to make it work. it's just a matter of playing but with extra pucker factor. I've gotten unexpected results here and there, so I'm trying to establish best practices.
[04:37:04] <mIreland> In particular, i was using g92x0z1 to bump part zero around. then i reloaded the file with changes and found zero had reverted. this is okay, i just have to expect it.
[05:21:08] <mIreland> I'm playing with g2 move. I'm finding that the interpreter fails to read k value properly on my second pass.
[05:22:45] <mIreland> arc fails; radii not equal. center clearly reads the k value from previous pass, not the value of the current instruction.
[05:24:03] <mIreland> placing i, k before x, z does not fix it...
[05:25:23] <mIreland> cant clear i,k on a line by themselves...
[05:26:32] <mIreland> cant enter a j value in xz plane...
[05:34:03] <mIreland> weird, it works now. circle moves are picky; when they fail they report funny.
[05:50:01] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking of putting transistors on the output of these L6219, to take the current handling off-chip. they will have new reverse-current-dumping diodes. My question is, will these new diodes cause any kind of horrible feedback loop with the ones in the on-chip stage?
[05:54:27] <MattyMatt> answer #1, suck it and see
[06:10:14] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt is a subscriber to Empirical Electronics magazine
[06:11:03] <MattyMatt> I put my finger in a light socket once, to see if it was live. it was
[06:18:13] <MattyMatt> and a question about chopper drives, do they only chop the pulses at low speeds, and revert to modulating the width of the normal pulses at high speeds? or do they pwm a constant hi freq on top of the normal pulses?
[06:21:04] <MattyMatt> or is the pwm freq a fixed multiple of the stepping freq?
[06:28:22] <MattyMatt> that last one requires a degree of prediction. it would have to assume the next step will occur at the same interval as the previous one
[06:29:16] <celeron55_> i guess the switching speed is so high it can just pwm switch normally at any speed
[06:31:01] <MattyMatt> and I suppose a constant freq only jams one radio band, one that was a multiple of stepping freq would sweep across the whole LW and MW bands
[06:33:37] <celeron55_> i have been using one stepper driver IC from a printer and the maximum frequency for it was something like 500kHz
[06:33:43] <celeron55_> for the switching
[06:34:35] <micges_work> good morning
[06:34:45] <MattyMatt> indeed it is
[06:35:33] <MattyMatt> 500khz is doable in software
[06:36:20] <MattyMatt> call it 4Mhz to give 8 duty cycles per 500khz pulse
[06:38:46] <MattyMatt> are printer ports still limited to 2Mhz generally?
[06:39:40] <MattyMatt> I could test the principle with 4 pins amplified directly
[07:24:47] <Woife> hallo
[07:26:08] <Woife> hello?
[07:28:18] <MattyMatt> hollo
[07:32:28] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[08:29:58] <pjm> good morning
[08:34:23] <micges_work> morning
[08:38:32] <Vq> morgen
[08:38:48] <micges_work> dzien dobry
[11:14:57] <micges_work1> micges_work1 is now known as micges
[11:21:13] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[11:22:45] <Loetmichel> moin
[11:23:02] <MarkusBec> hi
[11:26:07] <Loetmichel> hat jenamd einen tip wie ich mit dem aktuellen Livecd-install (also ubuntu 8.04 emc2) einen attansic gbit controller eines Asus p5b-MX/wifi-ap an den start bekomme?
[11:27:34] <Loetmichel> wifi brauchen wir nicht, aber da das ien miniatx ist, und nur 2 PCI hat wär ne pci-netzwerkkarte eher suboptimal... schon wegen 2tem LPTport
[11:27:54] <Loetmichel> ups#
[11:28:30] <Loetmichel> sorry, here is englisch langugage spoken?
[11:28:41] <micges> yes this is english channel
[11:28:42] <Loetmichel> lets do it again in english
[11:29:00] <Loetmichel> Hello!
[11:29:57] <micges> hi
[11:30:07] <Loetmichel> Anyone here who can tell me how to activate the attansic gbit controller of a Asus p5b-MX/wifi-ap-mainboard?
[11:30:36] <Loetmichel> installed is the actual liveCD from liunuxcnc-org, e.g. ubuntu 8.04
[11:31:25] <Loetmichel> I am not deep enough into linux to modify the kernel or such things on my own
[11:32:26] <micges> try finding driver and compile it(much easier than rebuilding kernel)
[11:32:56] <micges> what does command 'lspci -v' says?
[11:33:05] <Loetmichel> have done that: driver is only aviable in binary for the latest kernel
[11:33:22] <Loetmichel> just a moment, wring machine running beside me
[11:33:37] <Traveler> hi
[11:33:52] <Traveler> Traveler is now known as Guest6786
[11:34:20] <Guest6786> hi
[11:34:43] <Loetmichel> booting
[11:36:18] <Loetmichel> * Loetmichel shoud get some ginseng... installed the box last week, had just to try 5 times to get User/PW right ;-)
[11:36:22] <Loetmichel> +l
[11:39:57] <Loetmichel> here the lspci from the gbitcontroller
[11:39:58] <Loetmichel> 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Attansic Technology Corp. L1 Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (rev b0)
[11:39:58] <Loetmichel> Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 8226
[11:39:58] <Loetmichel> Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 5
[11:41:34] <micges> Loetmichel: people that can help you still sleeping
[11:42:16] <micges> maybe they can help you
[11:42:29] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[11:43:02] <Loetmichel> over here in germany the clock says 13:43
[11:43:33] <Loetmichel> if I assume america its about 6to9 hours back...
[11:44:10] <micges> yes
[11:44:17] <jthornton> 6:41 am here
[11:44:19] <Loetmichel> ok, 4 o'clock in the mornign is a bit early to answer stupid questions ;-)
[11:44:35] <jthornton> 5:41 eastern time
[11:44:42] <jthornton> oop 7:41
[11:46:27] <Loetmichel> * Loetmichel says waaaay to easy "yes" if someone asks me ti help him
[11:47:24] <Loetmichel> now I am suck with a relatuve new computer to istall emc2 and get the Haase Cut2000 running tomorrow
[11:47:29] <Loetmichel> stuck
[11:47:44] <Loetmichel> <- sorting his fingers out ;)
[11:49:16] <AchiestDragon> almost 1pm here
[11:49:42] <Loetmichel> haase cut 2000:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4414
[11:50:20] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: so you are in GB ore france?
[11:50:30] <AchiestDragon> gb
[11:51:50] <jthornton> nice router
[11:52:19] <micges> yes very nice
[11:52:46] <Loetmichel> isn mine
[11:53:08] <Loetmichel> my own is this one:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4718
[11:53:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3547
[11:53:48] <Loetmichel> and I have build one for my ex-boss:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935
[11:53:56] <Loetmichel> ... little bit bigger ;-)
[11:54:14] <AchiestDragon> yea nice , regarding the network would say quickest solution woulf be to eather use a pcmcia/pci or other network card that has support as a temp solution if your limited on time
[11:54:29] <Loetmichel> my own has 200mm*110mm*110mm working range
[11:55:05] <Loetmichel> the one for the ex-company has 1500mm*1020mm*160mm working range ;-)
[11:55:32] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: thats how I use it at the moment, plugged in a rtl8139
[11:56:03] <Loetmichel> but I kind of hoped to have a pci free for a second LPT
[11:56:48] <AchiestDragon> usb to eathernet rj48 or wifi adaptor
[11:58:34] <Loetmichel> wifi adaptor is onboard
[11:58:44] <Loetmichel> but also not useable ;-)
[11:59:36] <AchiestDragon> yea but if the onbord one is not supported then better disabling it until theres support for it or you could be spending months trying to get it working
[12:00:52] <Loetmichel> dont want to ;-)
[12:01:10] <Loetmichel> it isnt a problem, i dont have to use a second lpt
[12:02:01] <Loetmichel> i can use the interneal lpt, the haase has no spindle speed contol or something to run out of I/o
[12:02:44] <Loetmichel> I just wanted do have a backup for the cheap onboard-iochips... have them seen dying for no spechial reason to often
[12:02:51] <Loetmichel> special
[12:06:38] <AchiestDragon> cheap usualy equates to not well built ,, i dont use asus mobos
[12:09:45] <AchiestDragon> the via ones are not too bad not had relyabilaty problems with them i have a couple of there miniitx boards and the gigabyte ones are good also use those in servers , although tend to like prebuilt dell systems
[12:10:37] <AchiestDragon> not had any problems with the del systems when it comes to driver support in linux with the del systems eather
[12:12:23] <AchiestDragon> just that dell tend to use custom boards that are not itx/atx form factor and may use diferent powersupplies that also have none standard connections
[12:19:28] <AchiestDragon> the dell workstations and servers they sell with a linux o/s option so you can usualy garantee that it supported
[12:20:34] <AchiestDragon> if new is not your thing then theres usualy lots secondhand on ebay at good prices
[12:21:25] <AchiestDragon> is it to be used on a machine that is going to be running 24/7
[12:23:25] <AchiestDragon> if so then you would need a pc designed to run 24/7 also so a server type ,,, trying to run a asus board 24/7 will give you failures as there ment for a 50% duty cycle ie 12hours in every 24 average
[12:24:02] <celeron55_> i tend to run laptops 24/7
[12:24:21] <celeron55_> had surprisingly little problems so far
[12:24:45] <AchiestDragon> Uptime: 15 days, 23 hours and 9 minutes
[12:25:04] <celeron55_> i have had 148 days and 109 days uptimes on this laptop
[12:25:08] <AchiestDragon> should be more but had to do a restart for a kernel update
[12:25:23] <AchiestDragon> usualy get it to 60days before a restart
[12:25:28] <celeron55_> and this is the worst you can get... heats too much etc
[12:27:01] <AchiestDragon> this is a dual 2.8ghx gigabyte mobo ,, not had a problem with the system but 24/7 use of it tend to find it eats a psu every couple of years
[12:28:57] <AchiestDragon> but better than a mobo replacement every 12 to 18 months
[12:29:51] <celeron55_> maybe you will end up with a long lasting psu after breaking a few
[12:30:42] <celeron55_> though i guess the new ones aren't even meant to work longer than a few years
[12:31:52] <celeron55_> same with every consumer thing... that's why i like to get everything second hand... cheaper also 8)
[12:31:55] <AchiestDragon> i did try one of those suposabaly top qualaty psu's that you see , but there only higher rated and with better fans there still not 100% rated for 24/7 use so only last the same time as the cheap ones
[12:32:47] <AchiestDragon> only the high end server ones are 100% rated but usualy there fan noise is like beeing sat next to a vacume cleaner
[12:34:11] <celeron55_> how about underclocking and slowing fan speed?
[12:34:25] <AchiestDragon> on the subject of vacume cleaners , also remeber the 12 month service power down and clean all the dust buildup from the mobo and heatsinks and airways
[12:34:43] <AchiestDragon> and fans
[12:34:53] <Loetmichel> celeron55_: here ar runnung: a stone old celeron 700
[12:34:59] <Loetmichel> as a fileserver
[12:35:29] <Loetmichel> running
[12:35:36] <celeron55_> if you need something that's silent and will last very long, just get some old pentium II / celeron machine 8)
[12:35:46] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.dyndns.org/phpSysInfo/ <- lied, is a 450Mhz pIII
[12:36:17] <Loetmichel> and a athlon 64x2 as my worplace-machine
[12:36:50] <Loetmichel> and a atholxp2400 as a "linux-learning" machine at my feet
[12:36:54] <Loetmichel> all 24/7
[12:37:39] <AchiestDragon> running dual xeon cpus ,, cpu temp sould be about 49c ,, when the airflow starts to get clogged with dust that rasies to about 52C , about due a cleen then ,,, if you dont then the first you know its it just reaches the point where it has no cooling
[12:37:50] <Loetmichel> ans some celerons/athons for my CNC, and a sepron64 as my wifes working machine, beside her ibm t6X from her company
[12:37:54] <Loetmichel> and so on
[12:38:10] <AchiestDragon> then you got the chip at over 80c and it ends up broken rather fast
[12:38:17] <Loetmichel> * Loetmichel has about 200 Eur every month electrical bill ;-)
[12:38:55] <celeron55_> i run two computers 24/7, this hp pavilion dv2400 laptop with turion64x2 and a 3GHz pentium 4 machine as a server
[12:39:11] <Loetmichel> lied again: 200 Eur every THREE months
[12:39:38] <AchiestDragon> its not just the cpu though ,, the dust also build up on the other chips even without a heatsink they still need the ariflow so the same can happen ,, resulting in a dead mobo or i/o card
[12:40:31] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: thats the reason why I put some compresed air through my computers at least once a jear
[12:40:34] <Loetmichel> year
[12:41:34] <AchiestDragon> £1 per day electric for each of the twin xeon systems i have here if running 24/7 only use this one 24/7 the others when i need to use them
[12:42:39] <Loetmichel> hmmm, got a athlonXP 1700+ with 512mb on a K7S5A out of some corner here... should that be a better machine for a tripleboot Ubuntu/emc2;dos/pcnc;winXP/mach3 ?
[12:42:57] <celeron55_> laptops are quite good in that sense because the air usually doesn't flow through many places
[12:44:56] <AchiestDragon> for cnc use would sujesst something like
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dell-PowerEdge-600SC-Server-P4-2-4GHz-512MB-RAM_W0QQitemZ250511419098QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Networking_SM?hash=item3a53a4e6da
[12:46:02] <AchiestDragon> they go for peanuts and good for 24/7 use ,, may have to upgrade ram and drives but ceaper than geting a new mobo alone ,, theres usualy a glut of them on ebay
[12:47:34] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: no option
[12:47:55] <Loetmichel> I have to have it ready for configuration at saturday morning
[12:48:22] <Loetmichel> so I can use whats here ore use the one I got from my friend to install emc
[12:48:23] <AchiestDragon> and the problem is just that you cant support the onbord wifi right ?
[12:48:38] <Loetmichel> onboard wifi isnt the problem
[12:48:48] <Loetmichel> the onboard gbit network is
[12:49:14] <Loetmichel> my friend HAS no wifi in the wortkshop
[12:49:18] <Loetmichel> workshop
[12:49:59] <Loetmichel> AND I thoght 'til now that a dualcore cpu isnt the best to do for a EMC2-machine
[12:50:05] <Loetmichel> is that wrong?
[12:50:32] <celeron55_> dos on a athlon xp might make 100% cpu use all the time
[12:50:55] <AchiestDragon> if the onboard network chip set is not supported then you have 3 options ,, 1 write the driver for it from scratch , 2 find a way to rewite the current driver and backport it , 3 use a replacment /second network card that is supported
[12:50:59] <celeron55_> so put some good cooling on it 8)
[12:51:16] <AchiestDragon> first 2 i would say that you are not going to manage by saturday
[12:52:57] <AchiestDragon> athlon xp's i find tend to crash at intervels if used 24/7 i stoped using athlon chips for that reason
[12:54:15] <Loetmichel> celeron55_: it HAS good cooling
[12:54:20] <Loetmichel> just a moment
[12:55:49] <AchiestDragon> good cooling as in overclocking type , if not overclocked then you will find thats not good enough for 24/7 use ,, although better than 12hours in 24 use
[12:57:18] <AchiestDragon> the std fans are about 3700rpm ,,, most over clocking ones will go to 5500 rpm i have server fans here that do 8500rpm but you do know there on
[12:59:00] <AchiestDragon> overclocking and other fans that they say are low noise dont have the airflow to properly cool ,, just enough to mean in the 12 hours use the buildup of heat is still within opperating tolarances
[13:00:14] <AchiestDragon> a week later and you may find that its close to the limits ,, only takes one hot day or dust buildup that degrades the cooling they provide and you end up with like you say a i/o chip on the mobo fail
[13:00:43] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: i have used AMD chips since the x486
[13:00:56] <Loetmichel> I am perfectly happy with the cooling
[13:01:03] <Loetmichel> even under dos
[13:01:09] <Loetmichel> and 24/7
[13:01:51] <AchiestDragon> i used to also ,, but after having 6 diferent systems suffer the same problems i stoped using them
[13:02:05] <Loetmichel> the rpm isnt the problem, the thoughput is
[13:02:30] <AchiestDragon> yea ,, dust build up slows the throughput
[13:03:02] <AchiestDragon> after 12 months the dust buildup on a fan can reduce the thoughput to 50% of what it should be
[13:03:07] <Loetmichel> better ise a 80mm oder even 120mm fan with a funnel in the coller, will cool the CPu effectively and silently
[13:03:44] <Loetmichel> or go for the warter route like me:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4044
[13:03:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4050
[13:03:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4047
[13:04:08] <Loetmichel> that was an Athlon XP 2600, too
[13:04:18] <Loetmichel> and NEVER above 46°C
[13:04:30] <AchiestDragon> 50% is not just the fan but also the dust buildup on the heatsink vains that reduce cooling also ,,, the cpu though is not the part that usualy fails because of cooling
[13:04:54] <Loetmichel> *bah*
[13:05:14] <Loetmichel> * Loetmichel hast to fine tune his fingers... much errors today ;-)
[13:05:33] <Loetmichel> typing errors, that is
[13:05:36] <AchiestDragon> its the other parts you need to look at ,, the total arflow over the mobo ie that small chip in the lower corner that is slowly cooking because of lack of airflow
[13:06:18] <Loetmichel> the 120mm fan in the PSU was sufficient to cool the entiere Mainboard
[13:06:54] <AchiestDragon> its only arflow is slight and is the result of what the fan on the cpu actualy manages to cool it by slight turbulance in the case
[13:06:57] <Loetmichel> ... but i havent blown the dust out for a long time on the photos
[13:10:15] <AchiestDragon> [13:02] <Loetmichel> I just wanted do have a backup for the cheap onboard-iochips... have them seen dying for no spechial reason to often
[13:10:25] <AchiestDragon> thats usualy why
[13:10:42] <Loetmichel> ah, I see
[13:11:08] <Loetmichel> no, the usual cause of dead IO-chips I observed ist Static discharge
[13:11:20] <Loetmichel> oer some ohter power from outside
[13:11:46] <AchiestDragon> opto isolators on the i/o interface then
[13:12:35] <AchiestDragon> and observe the static handleling precautions
[13:13:14] <AchiestDragon> and solve any earth gnd loops
[13:15:23] <Loetmichel> I am an Electronican
[13:15:31] <Loetmichel> I KNow these
[13:17:59] <Loetmichel> but we have in germany a word: "Der schuster traegt die schlechtesten Schuhe"... in english something like: "The cobbler has the worst shoes"
[13:18:04] <Loetmichel> You Know?
[13:18:06] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:18:18] <AchiestDragon> then you know that static caused porblems are dew to pad practice
[13:18:23] <AchiestDragon> pad / bad
[13:18:45] <Loetmichel> yes
[13:19:05] <Loetmichel> but most time i get called if something goes wrong.
[13:19:27] <Loetmichel> you wouldnt belive waht i have seen on "bad practice"
[13:19:34] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:20:07] <AchiestDragon> tips are avoid synthetic cloaths ,, tuch known earth points before handeling (before and after moving) , and you should be fine
[13:20:33] <Loetmichel> I know
[13:20:45] <AchiestDragon> places that are a problem are offices with synthetic carpets
[13:20:52] <Loetmichel> not in germany
[13:21:39] <Loetmichel> 'cause there is a Regulation that offices with electronics (computers) HAVE to have antistatic carpets
[13:22:21] <AchiestDragon> yea now ,, but before had some bad places in the past
[13:22:32] <Loetmichel> especially @ work, where i have to supervise 6 people building military Computers ;-)
[13:23:00] <Loetmichel> look here:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8854
[13:23:07] <AchiestDragon> walking accross the office you could get a nice static zap on tuching something at the other side
[13:23:59] <Loetmichel> the floor and the browb sheets are antistatic, AND coupled to the ground via 2Mohm
[13:24:11] <Loetmichel> brown
[13:25:11] <Loetmichel> the sheets taped to the wooden tables
[13:26:10] <AchiestDragon> :) like the big white vertual space objects
[13:26:31] <Loetmichel> the sign on the top left corner reads "ESD-sensitive area, wear wriststraps and protective clothing/shoes"
[13:27:09] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon; ther were some military equipment, not for all eyes ;-)
[13:28:10] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[13:28:48] <Loetmichel> the guy on the photo is btw my apprentice
[13:28:50] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:29:14] <AchiestDragon> most consumer chips are static protected to 100,000v so its not normaly as big an issue now ,,, other than gasfets and some other parts used in sattelite lmb's and rf amps that are ultra sencative
[13:30:14] <AchiestDragon> with some of those removing them and handeling them with antistatic protection may not always be good enough
[13:30:49] <Loetmichel> *bah* I shoug get some "freshen up" lessons in english grammatics...
[13:30:54] <Loetmichel> grammar
[13:30:55] <Dave911> I'm looking for a set of CNC Controller Manuals for a GE Mark Century 2000 CNC system - If anyone has or knows of a set - I have a customer who is willing to pay for them. If you have the setup manuals for a Warner Swassey lathe with the Mark Century controls - all the better :-) I know the Mark Century is a popular controller to replace since it is so old (1984 vintage) so I am...
[13:30:57] <Dave911> ...hoping that someone has a set they would like to sell. The lathe was suppose to come with manuals but all they got was some of the wiring diagrams. You can contact me off list at Dave (at) ColeControls(dot)com
[13:31:24] <AchiestDragon> some precautions you do need to observe as its still verry easy to get more than 100,000v of static buildup on you
[13:31:39] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: hold ist
[13:31:43] <Loetmichel> hold it
[13:32:26] <Loetmichel> if ypu get more than about 10-20kV on Your body wqou are weating extremly thick rubber shoes
[13:32:47] <Loetmichel> AND are standing on a perfect isolation sheet ;-)
[13:33:20] <celeron55_> or hovering in the air? :P
[13:33:42] <Loetmichel> and MOST cmos devices are good for about 1kv to 2kv, and about 1 joule pulse
[13:34:01] <Loetmichel> if You go above that the tend to break
[13:34:03] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:34:24] <Loetmichel> celeron55_: DRY air ;-)
[13:34:55] <Loetmichel> * Loetmichel has drawn about 30cm spark to my finger from a Cascade of a big tube TV
[13:34:56] <SWPadnos> with no air flow
[13:35:05] <SWPadnos> (which also causes static buildup)
[13:35:27] <Loetmichel> and thats only about 18kV @ 8mA
[13:35:38] <Loetmichel> (which also hurts a bit ;-)
[13:35:40] <AchiestDragon> or walking though the nice company entrance on there ultra static nylon carpet for 20 yards to the office carring the box containing the replacment cpu card for there data genaral minicomputer in its antistatic bag
[13:36:37] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: *brizz* *st. elmos fire* -> turn around, by new replacement cpus ;-)
[13:37:41] <AchiestDragon> that your replacing because the md of the place decided that to conserve power he turned of the air con in the computer room on friday night , and it cooked over the w/e
[13:38:04] <Loetmichel> I have developed a habit to touch my lathe every time I get up from my desk chair... 'cause the chair was cheap. and INST antistatic
[13:38:26] <Loetmichel> *Bzit* "ouch, dry aur today"
[13:39:42] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: great, sounds like my old boss... "yes, i have heard dte server beeping the whole day... but it still was running, so I done nothing"
[13:40:58] <Loetmichel> .... -> the time i was called and there: no cpufan (bearings blockend) (that caused the beeping) no case fan (plug off) no PSU fan ( dunno how long, looked like a solid dust brick)
[13:41:05] <AchiestDragon> £28,000 it cost them for a £3 saving in electric over that weekend
[13:41:22] <Loetmichel> -> cpu tast, mainboard toast, ram toas, Harddisks toast, PSU toast
[13:42:08] <Loetmichel> what is MD?
[13:42:53] <AchiestDragon> managing director
[13:43:23] <AchiestDragon> he was most miffed as he could not sack anyone for the mistake other than himself
[13:43:24] <Loetmichel> ah
[13:43:59] <Loetmichel> * Loetmichel knows such stunts from some janitors which thought to be clever
[13:44:11] <Loetmichel> switching off the server A/C
[13:45:05] <Loetmichel> ore the power ti the central company filesever... in the middle of the database cleanup-run ;-)
[13:45:30] <AchiestDragon> got called out to that at 9am monday morning ,, got there was first to walk into server room that day , and found the air con off ,,, had to break seals on windows in order to get temp down without causing condensation to buld up
[13:46:28] <Loetmichel> jeah, know this kind of stuff
[13:47:37] <Loetmichel> but back to topic: the computer I have found here is a Athlon XP 1700+ with 512 MB ram and a Elitegroup K7s5A mainboard. the disk is a samsung spinpoint 40gb
[13:47:40] <AchiestDragon> then 1 day spent checking it out ,, replaced the cpu card and got it working ,,, the md did try to clame for the seals on the windows as it was a sealed room with a haylon flooding fire system , but my md did say if it was not done he would of been looking at a £600,000 bill for a new system
[13:48:05] <Loetmichel> do you think the computer is sufficient for EMC2 ?
[13:48:11] <AchiestDragon> bbl got got get kildet from school
[13:48:41] <tom3p> its best to ask the computer , run the live cd and the latency test.
[13:49:11] <Loetmichel> <- doing it at the moment
[13:51:31] <Loetmichel> OUCH
[13:51:58] <Loetmichel> max jitter 4204571ns in servo thread
[13:55:16] <Loetmichel> that ist to much, or not?
[14:02:54] <cradek> too much
[14:03:43] <cradek> you should probably have jitter 20000ns or less if using software generated step pulses
[14:04:02] <Loetmichel> I thoght so...
[14:04:04] <cradek> maybe a little more is ok with servos, but not much
[14:04:31] <cradek> you have 4 msec which is 4 servo cycles
[14:04:46] <Loetmichel> maybe the CDrom ist the best one, the big jitter came @ loading open office
[14:05:05] <Loetmichel> s/ist/isnt
[14:05:53] <cradek> usually jitter problems are because of video or SMI or other BIOS settings
[14:06:03] <cradek> usually not CDrom or disk related
[14:07:02] <undrill> why would you be loading openoffice when doing the test?
[14:07:11] <Loetmichel> to stress the computer?
[14:07:23] <cradek> yes that is what you should do
[14:07:57] <cradek> what kind of video card does it have?
[14:07:57] <undrill> oh, that's right. It's a while since I've done that
[14:08:12] <undrill> I was picturing someone running openoffice on a cnc box
[14:09:31] <cradek> that would be strange, but the realtime system deals with that just fine
[14:09:50] <cradek> it is a good test. other useful tests are causing network activity and running GL programs
[14:09:56] <Loetmichel> undrill: i have no problem imagine that: someone producing som parts and writing the Bill at the same time ;-)
[14:10:39] <Loetmichel> cradek: had running glxgears and was surfing and downloading updates in parallel ;-)
[14:11:23] <AchiestDragon> a good one would be also using firefox and watching some tv on demand ,, ie cncing your part and catching up on the tv program you missed last night
[14:11:59] <Loetmichel> AchiestDragon: jeah ;-)
[14:15:30] <AchiestDragon> alhtough i would say that running emc2 , listening to one of the streaming internet radio and browsing though ebay (using firefox with flash enabled ) and irc at the same time would be something that would be a expected load on a machine
[14:45:24] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[14:52:08] <Loetmichel> max jitter 24459ns servo and 32548ns base thread
[14:52:10] <Loetmichel> BETTER
[14:52:20] <cradek> what did you change?
[14:52:57] <Loetmichel> ok, desision made: i'l go with the new computer... IF my friend kills the plt, he hast to by a new board -> SEP
[14:53:07] <Loetmichel> cradek: the whole machine ;-)
[14:53:12] <cradek> ha
[14:54:04] <Loetmichel> my friend has given me a C2d 2,8Ghz / 2gb ram with a asus P5B-MX mainboard
[14:54:17] <Loetmichel> to install EMC2
[14:54:54] <Loetmichel> and tomorrow i will go to his workshop, config and test the computer with his Hasse Cut 2000
[14:55:26] <Loetmichel> but the internal Gbit-Network dosent run unter ubuntu 8,04
[14:55:45] <Loetmichel> so i teste an old mchine which was sitting here in some corner...
[14:56:07] <Loetmichel> but the Athon XP 1700+ wasn fast enough...
[14:56:20] <Loetmichel> [15:51:47] <Loetmichel> OUCH
[14:56:20] <Loetmichel> [15:52:15] <Loetmichel> max jitter 4204571ns in servo thread
[14:57:03] <Loetmichel> so I tested the machine from my friend , with a plugged in (pci)RTL8192
[14:57:39] <Loetmichel> running like a charm, BUT no pci left 'cause the other pci on the microatx-board is defective
[14:58:06] <Loetmichel> so if the internal LPT: developes some fault: change board...
[14:58:20] <Loetmichel> but that is not my problem, its his ;-)
[19:35:37] <mIreland> good morning folks. I've been making progress so fast I've been dreaming about it. today i am looking at changing my control panel and ladder logic.
[19:38:53] <mIreland> So far I have found that it is pretty straightforward. my toolchanger is tuning up nicely. but i've hit a snag while adding an M code for my partoff slide.
[19:42:08] <mIreland> I believe I have found how to resolve it; there was no M oneshot block in my ladders... but i mention it partly because it made my machine act weird, as in, spindle twitching when i hit the button.
[19:46:07] <MattyMatt> sounds good. this is a lathe, right? so the toolchanger is a rotating turret?
[19:52:03] <mIreland> yes thats rite.
[19:53:33] <mIreland> I'm currently trying to sort out the best way to make a buttonsuch that pressing it again unsets the pin. rite now I have 2 buttons for collet, for instance,
[19:54:14] <MattyMatt> still not looked at EMC, I'm afraid
[19:54:49] <mIreland> this is more classicladder and xml and hal
[19:55:03] <MattyMatt> and now I'm worried I may not have a spare PC powerful enoug
[19:55:13] <mIreland> useful in their own right without emc... peeple make up DROs and such
[19:56:31] <archivist> one of mine runs on an 800 meg athlon
[19:56:51] <mIreland> pwerfl enuf for what? seriously, for 85$ i got atom board(practically a whole system).
[19:56:53] <SWPadnos> mIreland, you want a physical monemtary button to turn into a toggle?
[19:56:58] <SWPadnos> momentary
[19:57:11] <cradek> --|^|--| |--(R)--, --|^|--|/|--(S)--
[19:57:26] <cradek> B O O
[19:57:36] <mIreland> processing....
[19:57:41] <cradek> err you get the picture (B is button, O is output)
[19:57:51] <mIreland> ah yes
[19:57:57] <cradek> on rising edge of button signal, reset output if it was on, set it if it was off
[19:58:23] <SWPadnos> or
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/man/man9/toggle.9.html
[19:58:49] <cradek> yep either way
[19:59:25] <cradek> if you did it in ladder you might use just one --|^|-- and go down and over to the two cases
[19:59:28] <cradek> brb
[20:00:20] <MattyMatt> wow, classicladder looks cool. like a poor man's vhdl :)
[20:02:58] <MattyMatt> I was going to use a dedicated 500Mhz Celeron board in the pedestal of my machine. would that be enough to run it? it will NOT be running firefox
[20:04:44] <archivist> I run firefox no problem
[20:05:20] <archivist> note firefox is in user space, not the realtime threads
[20:05:46] <archivist> the video card is the thing to watch
[20:06:01] <archivist> and especially its driver
[20:06:35] <MattyMatt> I have an mga400, which without drivers behaves itself perfectly as a VGA
[20:07:11] <MattyMatt> no AGP slot on first choice mobo, that has SiS video with shared memory
[20:07:53] <archivist> shared memory video can be a problem
[20:08:33] <MattyMatt> so I'll try and use the matrox
[20:10:09] <archivist> Matrox is used by a few people, not heard anything bad
[20:10:43] <MattyMatt> it was the preferred kind, in its day, for industrial work I believe
[20:11:14] <archivist> yes was well respected
[20:11:16] <cradek> all my emc machines have matrox video
[20:12:00] <archivist> I have some Matrox cards saved up
[20:12:18] <MattyMatt> for a video wall? :)
[20:12:39] <cradek> yes classicladder is cool - I did my mill's tool changer logic in no time using it
[20:13:38] <AchiestDragon> all but one pc here has a matrox card in
[20:14:20] <AchiestDragon> have a matrox g200 4 head pci card that i will be putting on ebay when i get arrund to taking a pic of it
[20:17:30] <celeron55_> running firefox on a 500MHz machine is no problem if you have enough ram
[20:17:51] <celeron55_> oops... had scrolled a bit up
[20:18:01] <celeron55_> well, anyway 8)
[20:18:38] <celeron55_> and also it shouldn't affect the realtime performance as archivist said... i was thinking of whether it's practical to use it or not
[20:18:47] <MattyMatt> momma's soaked up all my spare PC133, although I did find a 512MB stick in an Athlon 1.3 at the dump, but that's staying in that machine
[20:19:09] <andypugh> How quaint
[20:21:07] <MattyMatt> a machine of that age seems more appropriate for the ancient art of printer port IO :)
[20:21:21] <MattyMatt> my 486's usually had 2x LPT
[20:21:30] <mIreland> so if i understood rite, a simple thing like set and reset toggle can be done in 2 lines of HAL config or in one forked rung under classicladder.
[20:24:51] <AchiestDragon> yea maplin used to do a 8255 based isa card kit give you 24 lines of i/o for about £48 pci versions are like £200 if you can find one
[20:25:23] <MattyMatt> I have an ISA IO card
[20:25:41] <MattyMatt> that's another reason to use one of these 500Mhz machines
[20:25:49] <AchiestDragon> have a p4 system that still has a couple of isa bus sockets
[20:26:54] <alex_joni> http://system76.com/article_info.php?articles_id=9
[20:27:02] <MattyMatt> oh yeah, I got a MDA/CGA card too :) I could disable the onboard SiS on that one with no AGP
[20:27:39] <MattyMatt> I would have loved that pci mga200 for this machine 10 years ago
[20:53:03] <andypugh> Is there linux for Z80? I see that they still make them, and up to 20MHz now...
[20:54:22] <celeron55_> linux doesn't run on 8-bit processors
[20:54:48] <andypugh> How rubbish!
[20:55:37] <archivist> make it so!
[20:55:39] <AchiestDragon> min is a 68000 with the pmmu
[20:56:25] <AchiestDragon> theres a version that would let you run without the pmmu but its limitedf
[20:56:57] <alex_joni> uclinux
[20:57:47] <AchiestDragon> cp/m is now opensource and gem also
[20:58:32] <AchiestDragon> theres been a freeware cp/m since 1988 long before linux
[20:58:55] <archivist> * archivist waits for mpm
[20:59:43] <AchiestDragon> mp/m will be also ,, one of the things that digital reserch did after getting crushed by M$ in the market place
[21:00:13] <AchiestDragon> was to make most of there older software avalable as public domain
[21:00:19] <archivist> I have an mpm system at home
[21:02:43] <AchiestDragon> had a nice array of cpm systems many years back
[21:04:38] <AchiestDragon> http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/pc-s1986a.jpg
[21:05:05] <AchiestDragon> &
http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/pc-s1986b.jpg
[21:05:35] <andypugh> That back in the days of making your own photograpic emulsions out of animal parts?
[21:05:37] <AchiestDragon> bad pics digital photos of old photos
[21:07:20] <AchiestDragon> 38 cpu array but only 8 of those machines had hdds ,,, mfm 5mb ones at that
[21:08:46] <AchiestDragon> a mix of 2mhz and 4mhz z80a/b's just at the time the pc was starting to take off
[21:11:27] <AchiestDragon> took pic just before i decomissioned them so was a bit miffed that the pic came back blured when it got processed
[21:11:58] <fenn> what did you do with all that processing power?
[21:13:07] <AchiestDragon> spent most of the time getting them to comunicate properly ,, but they where ok at autorouting pcbs when running right
[21:16:10] <AchiestDragon> not realy a viable solution in the end though
[21:18:28] <AchiestDragon> simple rs232 teminal connection would limit apps to text only but you could run seperate tasks on each and swich between them
[21:18:57] <AchiestDragon> with limited sucess in practice
[21:19:47] <andypugh> What are they? 380Z's?
[21:19:57] <AchiestDragon> shelton signets
[21:20:33] <andypugh> A brand I feel is lost to history?
[21:20:40] <AchiestDragon> at that time the 68000 had come out and a couple of 68000 8mhz machines would leave the whole array standing
[21:20:43] <AchiestDragon> yea
[21:21:52] <celeron55_> those are quite cool-looking 8)
[21:22:32] <AchiestDragon> yea the kool looks are all it realy had going for them at the time though
[21:23:07] <andypugh> It's worked for Apple :-)
[21:23:25] <AchiestDragon> but a few years earlyer they where a quite good machine for a cp/m box
[21:27:52] <AchiestDragon> i got myself a pdp11/23 after , was about the time i started working doing field service to computervison equipment (rebagdged data genaral nova3 and eclipce series minicomputers with hi res graphics used for cad)
[21:30:46] <AchiestDragon> by the time of the i386 seems that the pc started to be used more for processing rather than just beeing used as a teminal
[21:48:53] <AchiestDragon> would not mind an array of these boards though
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/merrick/merrick1.html
[21:52:09] <andypugh> Well, it looks pretty, but I wouldn't know where to start on getting it to do anything.
[21:53:54] <AchiestDragon> 100 * 3.5Mgate fpga array cards ,, just reading the spec actualy seems to have quite a low interconnect , seen better but not in the the same price bracket
[21:55:49] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[21:56:04] <AchiestDragon> you could put 4 200mhz arm softcores in each to create a 400 cpu array on each card
[21:59:31] <andypugh> Anyone know a very cheap way to convert 4x CAN messages to analogue voltages?
[22:00:18] <AchiestDragon> a microcontroler with a can interface and dac outputs
[22:00:46] <AchiestDragon> amtel may have one in there AVR series
[22:00:57] <andypugh> Hmm, that has the problem if requiring programming talent. :-)
[22:02:22] <AchiestDragon> does it need to be can bus
[22:02:34] <AchiestDragon> i2c or spi would be better
[22:02:50] <andypugh> "CAN" is a rubbish search term on Google
[22:03:25] <AchiestDragon> theres a number of i2c or spi dac chips arround that will do that
[22:03:29] <andypugh> i2c or spi would be worse in this case, the application is snooping vehicle CAN-bus data
[22:04:07] <frallzor> g'day girls
[22:04:56] <andypugh> Hi
[22:05:08] <andypugh> (not actually a girl)
[22:05:29] <frallzor> girl enough for me
[22:05:40] <andypugh> Eek!
[22:05:53] <frallzor> catch my drift? ehh ehh ehhhh?
[22:06:50] <AchiestDragon> its getting hard to tell if there actual girls these days
[22:08:31] <AchiestDragon> but whatever tickles your goat i guess
[22:08:52] <andypugh> Hmm, an interesting CAM application. EMC2, Puma robots, and Scalpels.
[22:09:14] <frallzor> he didnt like the topic
[22:09:34] <andypugh> Can't say I blame him, bit at least it was on-topic
[22:10:16] <frallzor> so, what is going on in here thats not about genitals?
[22:11:08] <andypugh> Very little
[22:11:19] <frallzor> :(
[22:11:33] <frallzor> * frallzor ordered his first parts today for his mechmate
[22:11:43] <frallzor> *happieness*
[22:11:45] <andypugh> Excellent
[22:12:12] <frallzor> now I just ned 5 months for the rest :P
[22:12:17] <frallzor> *need
[22:12:41] <andypugh> Why 5 months?
[22:12:46] <frallzor> le cash
[22:12:53] <frallzor> student :P
[22:13:13] <andypugh> Ah
[22:13:18] <andypugh> Where?
[22:13:28] <frallzor> Malmoe Sweden
[22:13:53] <andypugh> <Checks google maps>
[22:14:20] <frallzor> 3rd largest city in Sweden, cant miss it :P
[22:14:23] <andypugh> Ah, the warm bit?
[22:14:42] <frallzor> yes
[22:14:57] <alex_joni> frallzor: malmo is nice
[22:15:01] <andypugh> I spent 3 weeks in Jokkmokk last january
[22:15:14] <frallzor> yuk
[22:15:18] <andypugh> (And I don't mean the IKEA table)
[22:15:37] <alex_joni> I was 3 times in Lund in the last few years
[22:15:50] <frallzor> lund rocks
[22:16:02] <alex_joni> yeah, great city
[22:16:12] <alex_joni> and great university
[22:16:35] <frallzor> DaViruz is swedish too, but he lives in the northern parts
[22:16:42] <frallzor> no mans land so to speak
[22:17:09] <andypugh> Lulea was OK, but I found Jokkmokk pleasant but quiet. In fact I don't think I saw anyone apart from resturaunt and hotel staff for the whole trip.
[22:17:22] <frallzor> its like that up there
[22:17:27] <DaViruz> i've been to lund, it's not as great as you might think
[22:17:31] <frallzor> they avoid all human contact
[22:18:05] <frallzor> the stupid reindeer ppl sucks too
[22:18:21] <frallzor> just complain about stuff and play with the reindeers
[22:18:47] <andypugh> I might be going again this winter. My main problem is that they really don't know what "vegetarian" means.
[22:19:07] <andypugh> 3 weeks is too long to live on Margarita pizza
[22:19:18] <frallzor> try asking for bark
[22:19:22] <frallzor> they might understand that
[22:19:48] <andypugh> Yeah, but like the spanish season everything with ham, they can't help adding smoked reindeer
[22:22:15] <frallzor> Rigol-skopet verkar ju nice
[22:22:18] <frallzor> välbyggt =)
[22:22:58] <frallzor> oops wrong channel :P
[22:29:03] <andypugh> The Mechmate looks very rigid.
[22:29:32] <andypugh> Is it one motor per axis? (Which would explain the layout choice)
[22:32:00] <frallzor> 1 per axis yes
[22:32:08] <frallzor> but X can be done with 2
[22:32:14] <frallzor> think ill go that way
[22:33:16] <frallzor> seems like a great machine to have in a shop
[22:33:55] <frallzor> http://truecnc.com/ then there is this "company" ripping the design off
[22:34:07] <alex_joni> night all
[22:34:09] <frallzor> didnt even pay the creator for the license to use it =)
[22:36:58] <andypugh> Hmmm
[22:37:17] <andypugh> Their "Comparison" page doesn't mention the Mechmate
[22:37:30] <frallzor> pretty fun :P
[22:39:03] <frallzor> their price is crazy too
[22:39:03] <andypugh> OK, time to leave
[22:47:51] <frallzor> hello girls
[23:47:16] <mIreland> haha victory is mine! i have created a user defined M code for my cutoff slide and run it in a program! I made it smart enough to cut out on spindle stop, collet open, slide limit switch *and* press of control panel button, just in case.
[23:47:38] <mIreland> fun timing issues.
