no no.. i dont knwo pwm cycles. i mean i need that much speed
at the max.....
100 kHz is not a speed when you're talking about PWM
ok let me explain you ... right now i am using NextStep Stepper Drive.. with 256 micro stepping
and it can drive at 200kHz .. i dont need 200khz speed
servos don't have steps like that
but around 100khz step rates..
i know servo dont steps like that
it need 3-6 pwms
SWPadnos: did you get the flux capacitor?
MOSFET or IGBT.. but i was talking abt comparision
SWPadnos: Finally... http://www.geekalerts.com/back-to-the-future-flux-capacitor-replica/
If you missed that, yo missed the others...
NOW we're talkin.... 38,000,000 Candlepower flashlight http://www.geekalerts.com/maxblaster-the-handheld-sunbeam/
Himanshu12: Also look at http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i43ds.pdf
SWPadnos: Amazon sells Electronic components, including surface mount.
jymm, I saw the links, but didn't get one ...
SWPadnos: Well, I din't mean order it
I get that now
hey SWPadnos, andypugh , can you explain me how emc communicate with Pluto servo, i mean by PWM , or Control words or any other methods??
control words which are trasnferred through the parallel port
I thought it used magic?
ok that means choice is right.. i mean i get good pulse rate even if the latency his higher right??
andypugh: That's a really stupid answer. Especially when you know it's voodoo, not magic. Eeeeeeeesh
i tried to reduce latency but the minimum i got was 9000 ...
(I need to talk less, people keep popping in here and because I can't keep my mouth shut they think I know what I am talking about. I am one of the newbiest newbies here)
What PC architecture?
sounds funny but it was latest CORE2DUO 2.2 ghz :))
and you know more funny thing is my old P4 delivers the almost same
I got mine down from 17,000 to 2,500 by using a SMP aware kernel. You should be able to dedicate a whole core to the RT stuff and see a similar improvement
p4 is 1.8 GHZ give me latency 9500-14000 and core 2 duo 9000-1300
there are experimental SMP kernels that could help, and there are other things that may also help (like using ext2 so you don't have kjournald running)
which pC you are using ANDY
and of course, if you can run without X and network drivers, that's even better :)
without X??? are you serious SWPandos??
run x remotel
run x remotely
Himanshu12, if you have any budget at all, I would get the Mesa 7i43 rather than the pluto, the Mesa cards are actually designed for industrial environments, whereas the pluto is a hobby board with no protection whatsoever
sorry not my cup of tea i am in linux enviroment since 1 month only
I have a rather old dual Xeon server
yes, without X or network is best
Have a look at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_With_Custom_Kernel
but that's awfully hard, since you can't use the graphical interfaces
there are text only ones
oh, I forgot to mention that the 7i43 is only about $10 more than the Pluto
You can skip straight from section 1 to section 2.3 and just use the binary builds.
X as in xorg /xwindoes not x axis incase of confusion
WHICH OS u are using andy for 2000 latency and u SWPANDOS??
I made a HAL-only application for an embedded system
let me check 7i43
that machine usually had 200 (yes, two hundred) latency, sometimes spiking to 2000
Ubuntu, live-cd install then the patches in that link. Dedicatiing a whole cpu to the RT is an enormous help
more or less the same CPU as you, and using an Intel ICH7-based motherboard
which is the slowest chipset available when it comes to PCI bus transfers
wht you guys think abt ATOM??
with network, ext3, and X, the latency numbers would get to 16000
i got one small CUTE BOARD 7x7 inch only
Himanshu12: They're nice, so are molecules
Atom 330 is pretty good, but there's a networking bug in kernels prior to 2.6.30
SWPadnos: nice to know
(for most ATOM boards, which are generally based on the ICH7 or 9 or whatever, and with the Realtek network driver)
hey i am interested in that 200 latency .. do you have documentation online??
like I said, I used ext2 instead of ext3, and turned off X and networking
Try the SMP build, I was very pleased
you probably can't do that, so it's not really relevant for you
hmmm you are right....
SMP build you meann lenny??
luckily, it does tell us that with the right changes to certain kernel drivers, "regular" machines might get to that stage eventually
there are SMP builds there, but as the URL says, they're experimental
All I did was download the .deb files in that link and blindly follow the instructions
so don't ask for support ;)
As in this link http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_With_Custom_Kernel
(or at least, try things on the stock RTAI kernel before asking for support)
But only step 6.3 onwards. It took about 10 minutes
Cool, I got a graphing calc for $1 =)
I figured if I messed up I could always just reinstall from the LiveCD
but you know guys i must drop ubuntu coz it gives sexy problem with RTAI, mmy screen get striped horizontally and vertically when i boot with RT kernel
with generic kernel it just works fine...
anyone have experience with EMC on RTAI kernels as host along with XP running in Virtualbox?
generic 8.04 kernel?
i think both kernel version is different..
did you try installing from the 8.04 CD, then installing EMC2 and the RTAI kernel?
yes i do the same..
i downloaded 8.04 cd
than from the install script i installed EMC2 with RTAI
I think there are a couple of driver packages that don't get installed when you install from the EMC2 liveCD, even though we do have EMC2/RTAI compatible builds of them
what motherboard/video chipset?
Too late for me chaps.
silliest quesiton of the day .. how to save this chat??? coz i want to try andy's 2000 latency SMP
I had a problem like that when using an ECS GOAL3 motherboard, but it more or less went away when I reduced the resolution to 1280x1024
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-10-12.txt
SMP won't get you that far on its own
i tried it all .. i mean i stepped down to 1024X768..
and OLD kernel works fine so i thought its kernel stuff and i should not go inside it ;)
SWPadnos one personal question, are you software guy or electronics??
electronics > software (iirc)
hmmmmmm....really goood knowlege.. thanks SWPadnos, thank you very much....
'i tried it all .. i mean i stepped down to 1024X768.. ' does that mean he hasnt tried vga driver?
Spida_ is now known as Spida
* oPless goes to work (!)
makes for an interesting test file in blender format file size is 11mb
export to autocad dfx it only exports 9/11ths of it and results in a 75mb file
unfortunatly not able to manage to do anymore with it as altough i can load and view it in autocad seems if i do anything with it autocad crashes out with out of memory errors
i was trying to ensure that its posible to do a blender to acad to mastercam to nc workflow path with a complex file to see if theres any issues that cause problems
seem to have fund the first issue by the looks of things rather sooner than i was hopeing for
think stl format probably not dxf
maybe ,, but i would normaly post edit the conversion in autocad before loading it into mastercam
the blender to 3ds export only resulted in a 22byte file that failed to manage anything
will try stl
stl results in a 84 byte file and acad wont inport that
anyone here worked much with CLARAty, OpenJAUS or OROCOS robotics software?
L84Supper: not much
some of the robot software applications appear to have been developed by philosophers vs engineers
but maybe it's just the PR
i need to program some PEELs, any suggestions for tool chain? ( dloading ghdl,gtkwave & xilink tools now, seem like overkill for a 12 gate 22cv10 )
tom3p, do you have a suitable programming device?
yes, i make the chips with old JED file now, need to amke a small change
I googled a little, but didn't turn up much
you may need to find some old vendor software and run it in wine or something
hey its a 5 GIG dload ( and i did this before and misplaced the dvd )
to burn?, yeh a windows app
do the Xilinx free tools support old devices like that?
they usually drop old stuff and don't add really new stuff for the web tools
dont know yet ;) ( the 22cv10 is now atmel atf22v10b )
they still make them?
but more than anything eles, i want to know how to do it and read the PSF file ( i could use discrete gates for the thing if neccesary )
read the PSF, i mean, make sense of the PSF
its just text but i'd like to know what the operators were # fred # !ethel ; gimme a clue is # or or and
or noneoftheabove ;)
heh - no idea
well dload is in background and there plenty else to do, thx
current from Lattice as well
and ICT's PLACE but may as well boot windows then
reading PLACE book now
haha ubuntu's menu editor wont run from menu... run it from terminal 'sudo alacarte'
right-click the menu, select "edit menus"
doesnt work, had to sudo
checking, yes, silence, nothing happens, i ran in window to see effect, thats why i did sudo
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/tomp/.config/menus/applications.menu'
no biggee, whats the command line way to pass pwd to 'sudo alacarte' ?
if you ever ran the menu editor as root, then ownership of the file may have been changed to root
which would prevent you from running it as yourself
i can chg perms , i'll try
if you sudo chown tomp:tomp that file (and any others that seem likely), you should be able to run it from the menu agail
hmm got any spare cash ebay 150378572320
well not enough for 2 anyway ,, would be struggling fnding the £69,999.99 plus carrage for the one i need first
yippee found another penny ,, what to do now
dam was just a reflection of the first one
shame they dont have a any offers button
if i could find a way to get this in my 6foot square workshop , then think it would be ideal for me http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bridgeport-turret-milling-machine_W0QQitemZ200393363032QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item2ea8600e58&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
but the dorway to it is only 2foot 6 wide even if i dismantled the macine first i would not be able to get the castings in though the door
removing the door frame would give another 4" but would not be able to remove the wall
think the bed travel may be limited in use also by walls in way of it
would be easyer to get it lowered into the garden then build a shead arround it ,, but think planning may have something to say about having a shead in the front garden
all for the lack of a garrage ,, would go quie well inside a garrage and be worthwile doing a cnc conversion to also
not shure on the weight of those , but often see them on ebay for not a lot of £
anyone know the space requirements for one
hight widht and depth
seriously if i can get one to fit then will go that route
seem to rember they need about 8foot square though but its been many years since i used one
may arranging to view it and taking a tape mesure with me its only about 15 miles away
For anybody curious about my EDM stepper motor dilemma from a week or two ago: I got the new micro stepping driver(driven at 1/256th step) and the .9 degree stepper at it seams to have solved most of my problems.
Rather than the old 1/8th step driver and 1.8 degree motor.
I should mention that that is probably not the typical result with most CNC motion controls. This particular application has very low friction and stiction.
just emailed him asking aobut the size and weight of the machine , will have to mesure up my workshop space properly now
geo01005: 102400 steps per rev?
rather than 1600.
Of course I know the motor probably dosen't move every step now. But it is so small that I can't measure it with the tools I have now.
smaller than detectable sounds good,whats the screw pitch?
there isn't a screw, just a gearbox to a drive wheel.
But the effect pitch is .51 inches/rev.
!5 millionth per step
Yeah, I'm sure that it isn't moving that little.
But it is much better than .0003"
geo01005: Are you using EMC2 to control the EDM?
just the Hal
Is this a wire edm - a coiled wire etc?
can't say much about that.
I guess I should say through wire - uncoil and coil?
I suppose I should just say that it is a manufacturing process that is not a machining process.
Yeah, sorry. I would love to talk about it.
NP I understand. A guy wants me to get a wire EDM working for him and the controls are really really old but the machine is in good shape etc
Sounds like a fun project.
perhaps tom3p is the person to talk to.
Does EMC handle negative velocity requests? I can see persuading the trajectory manager to back off to maintain the gap might be non-trvial
If I get to the point where I have to remove and replace the controls - I'll have to do some searches...
no it dosen't.
I'm not sure how much effort he wants to expend to get it going, but we will see...
tom3p - ok thanks for the hint!
Sounds like there might be a loop inside a loop setup - ala cascaded PID loops to make that work... Pretty deep hal stuff
So wire EDM might be tricky, but sinking should be OK as you can do that with a servo controller block.
yeah, that sounds right.
Bah! I only came donwstairs to pick up a datasheet, and I got sucked in...
Well we'll see how that goes.
andypugh: It happens .... Wear very dark sunglasses to block out the screen .... ;-)
In general..... Are there any pitfalls that should be avoided when doing really odd Hal configurations?
Is there anyway to tell before hand what will and will not work? Such as - you will run out of resources when you do more than X Pid loops etc or have more than X pins..
I think the # of PID loops is documented someplace but there must be more limitations.... or not ?
the pid manpage tells about the limit. you can change the limit with a rebuild.
Hmmmmm.. I'll need to do more reading. :-)
Say I configure a lot of PIDs and stepper controllers etc and link them together via gearing etc.. If I start running out of real time thread time - how does EMC2 let me know? Is there a RT thread overrun message that starts popping up? These PCs nowadays are a lot more robust than they were 10 years ago so perhaps I am overly concerned about resources.
if your realtime threads start taking too long to run, your remedy would be to run them less often. I can't guess how much you can do without running into trouble - it depends on ... well, everything
>>- it depends on ... well, everything
I was afraid that the answer was going to be like that ..... sounds like I need to spend some time doing some configuration and testing
how can he tell the problem occurred? ( how can he link the cause and effect )
good question .....
halcmd show thread will show you the time a realtime thread is taking to run
if the system is unresponsive you might find that the thread is running for most of the given period
hi cradec , i have reported to you a gug in the interpreter , please look at it. thanks
issy: I saw. Sorry I do not know about that.
tom3p: Have you done a through wire edm machine retrofit before?
Dave911: no, repaired ;em. upgrade them to new pumps and generators, but the cnc was always proprietary
i made an old agie stepper move with emc, but there was no process feedback controlling position, it just ran slower than the process.
when bored, make a crapper-sign
[21:08:40] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/p/HTTvBMBUU/
I even filmed it :P
[21:13:50] <AchiestDragon> http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/dscf2317.jpg
did this one day for something to do
concidering its was done on a piece of mdf then vanished i am quite supprised how well its stood up to the weather ,, was rather hoping it would fall appart so cound make better attempt
some have bigger sheds http://www.collection.archivist.info/Dad%27s%20Shed!.JPG
not mine :((
LOL that is what i need!!
its going to be a mute point at the moment if i can actualy get the machine i am looking at in my workshop atm ,, let alone how easy a conversion its going to be to make it cnc
more space for crape
AchiestDragon, buy a dead cnc, less work to do
Bridgeport turret milling machine its about 4foot square i think still wating for him to email back ,, diagnaly in the workshop there should just be enough room for it i think ,
and only got 7foot4" hight thats going to be rather close
4ft sounds low
thats the machine with the bed centered not including its travel
may have to remove the handles from one end to give it a bit more travel in the space i have
* frallzor is planning a mechmate without a place to store it
that is a storageissue =)
but if it fits then the whole workshop is basicaly going to act as a safty cage for it theres not going to be enough room to be in there to opperate it
ie like this sort of size 160367682302 the pallet i recon is about 4foot square so there would be just enough room for that machine
but may be a bit limited by the amount of x travel i can get before the bed handles start to plough through the wall
only realy need about 24" on x so should have just enough clearance
19" would do
hmm anyone know if you can massproduce in emc? :P
say you have a pattern you want to mill
when its done, it move a certain distance on say x, then sets home there, and starts milling again
use a subroutine
cnc-overload for my knowledge :)
and relative movements in the subroutine
g0 some xy, o100 call, g0 next xy, o100 call
i dont know much manualcoding, but I assume g0 is home
no its a move
ass stuff like that in the code itself?
all my cutting of gears is done in a similar manner
can you point me in the right direction if there is somewhere to read about it?
its worth learning some gcode and not relying on cam
I just read the gcode section of the manual, but it helps if you are used to programming
[21:41:29] <frallzor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-6651.html
what swami writes
so add the g-code itself as a sub-routine?
[21:41:44] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#cha:O-Codes
well I havent done any programming so this was pretty much greek to me =)
there are examples that come with emc
some are a bit short on comments to help you though
[21:50:26] <frallzor> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/G_Code_Trick.html
this seems about right and simple
will that format work with emc?
could well be a very poor choice
no g23 as far as I can see, its completely different
gcode has many dialects
*sigh* I hate g-code =)
work coordinate offsets are intended for the exact "mass production" scenario you describe
and G92 can also be used
i would suggest repeating the part in CAM if you don't want to learn g-code..
you have to do everything in CAM if you want to avoid learning any G-code
cam makes you lazy, doing it in gcode can be more efficient
i have just added a post processor to wiki for Camworks, supports wide range of EMC2 functions, i plan to maintain post keep it up to date also.
as an example, I don't think any CAM packages know how to use EMC2 subroutines
camworks post will also output emc2 sub calls took some doing but it works
i'm not advocating the avoidance of manual g-code, i'm just saying that if you really don't want to learn g-code it's probably better to do it in CAM instead of patching in something pre-written into unknown gcode
robh_, cool - can you do arrays and have it use a subroutine for each part?
but of course for ten parts you likely multiply the file size by ten :)
as it is u setup a part say 50 parts on grid plate, and 1 tool routine and it will call that sub each time on part as it goes around the grid plate
(or 9.999, you need a few SUB lines ;) )
so cut down on code, and have a easy to edit program file for 50 parts
if u download the same files u can see some test NGC outputs
yeah i also usually ends up with 9.999 parts, the first one always has some defects in it
I now know of one CAM program that will use EMC2 subroutines ;)
(and yes i know what you meant :P)
rigid tapping also outputs correct, using K as feed
I'm in the US, so 9.999 is just under 10, not one less than 10000
i meant that you get 9 good parts and one that's only 99.9% good
then you lernt for next time ;)
stupid joke, never mind :P
well If i need to learn manual g-code some nice explaining example would be nice =) not just "here is code, use code" =P
[22:29:47] <AchiestDragon> http://www.cnczone.com/
if one wants to do left hand rigid tapping how does G33.1 work? do you just reverse the spindle at the start of cycle?
Hmm, that code all looks rather complicated. I did much the same thing last night with an array of BNC connector cutouts with a subroutine for the shape centred around (0,0) and just shifting the origin with G92 every time. I thought that was what G92 was for?
robh_ You might need a negative pitch and a negative spindle speed.
I tend to be rotating an axis then calling a subroutine
robh_: I think if the spindle is turning left when you do it, it will just work. is that not the case?
iv not tryed it
andypugh, i think negative spindle speed is rejected?
I would always go by what cradek says than by what I guess
ill give it a try cradek see what it trys to do. id expsect it to work same for threading on lathe? left and right thread cutting
On a lathe you would start at the other end rather than reverse the spindle rotation, I think.
Unless you wanted to put the tool in upside down.
depends which side of part ur tool is ;)
when it comes to threads i still opt to use my hand opperated tap and die set
I thought we were talking about tapping?
hehe we was ill give it a go in sim if it works ill add it to the post i just made for camworks
then if i break one i can blame myself not the machine
Aye, we were, robh_ just said it was like threading on a lathe, but I don't think it is.
Safe for work... http://filebin.ca/cvrahh/Noah_and_the_Bunnies.pdf
it's similar except for the reversing part
I was just wondering how the trajectory planner coped with an encoder counting down rather than up.
heh, well either it works or it doesn't (and is a bug)
I remember a bug report a long time ago about spindlesync with M4 not working - don't remember whether I fixed it or not
I was thinking that if it doesn't work then it might work with a negative pitch.
As position is approximately encoder counts x pitch.
Ah, not getting synch at all would be a bit of a show stopper
hell this is going to be a close fit ,,, theres two table sizes for this bridgeport ,,, one is 9" by 49" the other 10" by 86" the small macine would fit in my workshop at a push , but the bigger one is 1 inch too high and 11" too narrow its almost imposible to tell form the pics what size it actualy is
Drill a hole in the floor above to operate the drawbar?
i'm jus home from a 7 hr drive... @ warp speed... thk god all the cops we seen were pre-occupied