Valen? to get 'step response' ( measure ture acc time ) on a servo, you just need a battery and a switch.
Be careful, you have no CNC, and maybe no estop or limits.
Bullock wrote for many years on servo setup http://www.ctc-control.com/customer/elearning/servotut/pid.asp
and this is good too http://www.me.berkeley.edu/ME107B_feedback/labdesc.pdf
but the test you want... its just jack the max Vcmd into a live amp and loaded joint and watch the tacho!
oh yeah, its nice if the switch goes from 8V to a shorted input ( you can see any drift/offset in the amp )
and, if you observe the time to accel in AXIS you will be watching the 'closed loop' response.
Valen: ^^ scroll back or look at irc logs
hmm it was something like that
ahh there it be
something like that
[00:37:02] <Valen> http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/
google won ;->
give me a play back Jordi
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-09-17.txt
yea! skunkworks to the rescue
hey - I do what I can! :)
so - carbon filled teflon piston rings are good to 500deg F
wouldnt work too good in my car
looking for non lubricated application
was there anything in paticular I was sposed to be looking at in the logs?
YEA! the wing is back together and I'm not bleeding and I found the two lost bits that fell in the middle
building a plane?
so a 2 wheeled truck then ;->
BJT_Shop: another one?!
no I put some armrests on for the wife and a volume control for the passenger headset
BJT_Shop: not built into the helmet?
oh, headrest. nm
no and I like the stereo a bit on the loud side
BJT_Shop: WHAT DID YOU SAY ?!?!?!?!?!?!
BJT_Shop: (that's me yelling over your stereo)
* BJT_Shop is a veteran cosmic rocker
now I gotta get it cleaned up for the weekend we are going a charity ride
Too early for toys for tots - isnt it?
yea, this is ms for kids I think
or something like that
I forget at the moment
must be sometimers
fundraising for the endangerment of the wet tshirt
I'm in favor of no shirt
Well, that is just implied.
and usually ends that way
good night all
tomp is now known as tom3p
EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
jst_home_ is now known as jst_home
Hello, is there a way to display tools in different color in the axis preview ?
say. Green for tool one, blue for tool two, etc. Or maybe just different line styles ? Like dash, dash-dotted etc
that needs an overhaul so shape also matches
hello archivist. Did you answer to my question ? I did not understand what you mean
hows it going?
I hate waiting for the post for spares
the Z drive failed in the starturn
ah yes u mentioned the other day, what went pop?
I changed the L298 and its still borked, must be the L297
i put my mesa cards onto a ally plate yesterday ready to start getting my head around them
i cant wait to try them with the spindle encoder running at full bollock
i have a pair of DRO slides too, 0.5thou resolution, so I'm also thinking if its possible to use those on X/Y axis to give better positioning
im quoting on a job that means I should do the spindle encoder on the mill
but no moneyz for the mesanet card
i got mine 2nd hand from a mate in the US
only paid him 1$ for them too
lucky bar steward
i had to buy them for him originally though
so it still cost some
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
Does anybody know if it is possible to have the display show different tools in different colors or line styles ?
I don't think you can
Hello jthornton, too bad
do you happen to know where the responsible code is ?
hey archivist hows stuff
night off tonight ;->
drinking lolly water and watching junkyard wars
going to get the X-Y table running nicley tomorrow hopefully so it can start cutting bits for the Z
upping the power I had to add a derivative term to the PID loop to keep the control nice
it is 0.015 or so but when it was running at 12v any D term seemed to make it run very rough
hmm I should probably start making up a wiki page on our setup
A few more servo setup cases helps
its the little things like the current limit that throw you
there any designs you know floating about for general purpose I/O connections to mesa stuff?
pjm what sort of accuracy are you hitting now?
well its pretty good, 2 to 3 thou of slop on the X and Y
but replacement ballscrews +bearings could probably fix that
know what that is in mm?
you using acme?
that's still pretty good really
btw did u look at http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/08/optoisolator-cards-for-mesa-5i20-servocard/
re the Mesa IO
is that what your parts come out at or what you can flop the mill about to?
that looks like the stuff ;->
yeah thats what the mill slops around at
if u push hard on the table whilst measing something with a clock
so you using ballscrews now?
you could try our 2nd ballnut approach
ah yes i forgot to answer, dunno what type, i salvaged them out of some machine
we are still just playing with things but pushing as hard as the both of us can we get ~.01mm or so
[12:51:34] <pjm> http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/cnc_built_photos_etc/xaxisleadscrew.jpg
that is a foto of the screw whilst I was building the machine
looks like there is plenty of room to stick another nut in if you wanted to try it,
but yeah a 2nd ball nut assy might be the answer
it was a royal pain in the arse populating the last ball nut again with new balls
we were going to use valve springs but wound up with belville nuts and some screw thread arrangement
i thoguht they were captive, so took out the lead screw, all of a sudden they were all over the floor
it will signifigantly increase the friction in the table
rofl, Dad did the same thing
yeah it was amusing
then i had the balls ache of refitting it all
I'm sure it was more amusing to me than either of you
he lost a few of them too
now we have a spare hundred
ended up slopping lithium grease in there, and sticking the balls back into it
I think he did it with a cardboard tube with a hole in it
then slid the whole thing over the end of the shaft
what you using for servos?
its a stepper machine
one day i'll make it proper
ey if you have a decent scale servo upgrade seems ok ;->
yeah well i did wonder about using scales
I figure with our .001mm scales its like having 5000 counts per revolution
perhaps i'll fit them first and see if its possible to use them for feedback with the steppers
I do wonder if encoders on the motors (high speed ones) will help with the accuracy
re the mesa cards, i cheated and bought some of the terminal block IO cards from mesa
I hear you can't, From what i've heard you can only use scales to give a ferror trip with steppers?
yeah that would make sense
that is a start though
it'll help you calibrate your screw as well
yeah thats a good idea, i could some how use them to cal any non linearity out
(we just got cheap screws of ebay)
mine came out of some glass etching machine that was used to write txt on reed switch envelopes
they wouldnt let me have the laser that went with it though ;-(
i'd imagine they are pretty high spec
that would have been nice ;->
yeah they are not bad lead screws, they certainly seem to do the job nicely
did you make the table or is it a conversion?
the Z axis uses an imperial lead screw with 2 of these plastic nut things that u can adjust the slop out
better than what our mill came with lol
the table was from the scrap yard, originally with handwheels and really crappy screws
it had an acme screw, and the nut had a slot cut in it so you could crush half the nut down
basically just made it harder to turn without actually affecting backlash at all
[13:00:07] <pjm> http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/cnc_built_photos_etc/zmount3.jpg
u can see the red 'nut' for the Z lead screw, there is another one of these at the bottom of the Z
yeah that is what was on this XY table
we are replacing the built in Z axis with this monstorous contraption dad is desiging
anyway my immediate task is to get my machine controlled by the mesa cards rather than parport stepgen
your going mesa + steppers?
i thought i'd do a phased move, first to mesa control of everything
then add the linear scales & play with that
then think about servo
heh we just jumped in the deeeeeeep end
i want to get my closed loop spindle stuff sorted too
ah i am a cheapskate so want to do everything for nothing!
yeah we need to do that too, I'm still wondering how to go about it though
ey our motors cost us $80 or so delivered (for all 3)
and thats new
500W scooter motors ;->
i've had some lucky finds that have really helped with my machine build
only down side is they want a few more amps than the 7i40's can put out
plus i have a paying job i'm running on it, so the proceeds from that will go to buy upgrades
nice, what you making?
if its not too intrusive to ask
only some PSU boxes for a friend of mine, it has various cut outs that need doing
so i made a quick change fixture
ah i even have a foto! http://pjm.dyndns.org/fix.jpg
its only injection moulded plastic, so all the cutouts are being done with a 1mm fc3
dad loves over the center clamps
wants to use them for everything
me too, i found a few in my boxes of crap, it was the first time i'd used them and they seem pretty neat
he was blow forming plastic for motor bike screens,
they would get this bit of plastic out of the oven at ~300C
put it onto a felt table that had a small air hole in it
stick a hunk of plywood with the middle cut out into a paticular shape
on top of the hot plastic
then pull on about 4000 clamps all of which were bastard tight, then blow air into the table and inflate the bubble
how was the bubble properly sized? a known volume of air or something else?
the clamps were his improvement, before that they just had a set of ~8 vice grips that they tried to get on
initally the owner of the shop would just say "thats it" and turn the air off,
he knew by eye (roughly) the size of all the different bubbles for ~300 different bikes
they all had their own wooden bit too
that sounds like a nice project to automate
dad made up a system with an IR beam and reciever, a pole with a measuring tape on it and a solenoid
so they could just set the beam to the right height and blow the bubble, It'd then turn the air off and on to keep it at the right height as it cooled
yeah a good idea
btw this double ball nut system sounds interesting, I'll have to see if I can find another suitable ballnut
it was all mounted to a steel bar (the IR setup)
problem is i dont have the spec of the stuff in there because it was all c**p off the scrap yard
only problem was the coldness of the bar would actually cause a dimple in the bubble at the top and for a few bubbles they actually cut a 3rd screen from that bit
ah yes i see
IE 2x type A screens, one from either end, and another type X screen cut from the gap
you wouldn't think it would bother it
It was pretty rare though and i think he just put some big spacers in
linearmotionproducts on ebay seems to have loads of good stuff at super cheap prices
we got all the nuts and screws for our system for ~$500 Au I think
ah right i will check them out, it would be certainly an excellant idea if i could simple fit 2 more nuts to my existing system
it would save a lot of effort in replacing all the screws etc
basically it would need a complete refit of the table
do you have angular contact bearings on the end of the screws?
on one end rather
yeah on the stepper end
and normal ball races on the non motor end
yeah thats all we have
i've put a clock on the end of the lead screw and cannot see it moving length wise
so its pretty sturdy
dear lord you want to be careful searching for stuff on ebay
[13:18:56] <Valen> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LOT-OF-4-18K-GOLD-PLATED-BALL-NOSE-RINGS-SCREWS-18G_W0QQitemZ290341356206QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4399b182ae&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
yeah this is the guy
[13:19:52] <Valen> http://myworld.ebay.com.au/linearmotionbearings2008/
i'll have a look
actually that seller has some pretty good value stuff
A question about installing a second parallel port - in this case a Netmos 9805 single LPT port in a PCI slot.
I am trying to figure out how to use this port. This card normally requires a driver being loaded in Windows. How is this handled in Ubuntu?
yeah like really lots lol
I read the integrators manual and got to page 94 and found "loadrt probe_parport" which appears to allow the PC to discover Plug and play hardware....
I get an error back after the command: bash: loadrt: command not found
Obviously I am doing at least one thing wrong here - does anyone know what I should do next ?? Thanks
odds are just sticking it in will let linux see it
the loadrt stuff needs to go into a HAL file somewhere, that bit i'm not too sure of
are you on the machine now?
no i'm on my laptop
The PC is in the other room from me ...
ah not me ;-)
sorry - I'm jumping in here I guess
no prob, i have gone thru this pain with multiple parports
How do I know if linux sees it - sorry linux newbie
the way i did it was to modprobe parport_pc
then dmesg to see if it was probed properly
if so, lspci -vv
to check the addresses
then rmmod the parport pc and add the addresses into your emc config
odds are you dont need to do the modprobe
just do the lspci first
So I do this from the terminal screen correct?
applications accessories terminal
first up just do lspci and see if you see anything that looks right
Yep, that is where I was before - I'll go check this and report back in a minute .. Thanks!
the manufacturer etc might come up as something completley different to whats on the actual card
is the machine on the internet?
Yes, the PC is plugged into my router
ah yes i had to do the modprobe with one of my cards to initialise it
if thats the case your best off getting on here from there
it'll make your life easier ;->
i currently have 5 parports in my machine, hopefully not much longer!
pjm that is really not nice ;->
what mesa card are you looking at?
LOL yeah it is nasty, but at the time was all i could have!
Well, this PC is about to go into my truck and then visit the shop where my lathe is for some tests ... I have a lot PCs .. ;-)
i have bought a 7i43 + a couple of IO cards
I'll be right back
does 8.04 have the add remove button in applications?
not sure without firing it up!
I was thinking of getting Dave911 to install xchat
my emc box is the only ubuntu linux box i have here, the rest are slackware
everything I have is ubuntu ;->
i am a fanboy
hahh i'll not say anything nasty about it then!
there is one windows machine in the house for the missus to play games on
i should reinstall a proper OS on this laptop, all it is for is multiple ssh sessions and xchat
its a crappy old thinkpad, about P3 450 or something
I've been burnt for red-hat style distros, because people keep asking me to get new hardware working on 5 year old versions of stuff
I use ubuntu here mostly now
I hear nice things about slackware though
its alright if u dont like bloat
I thought it was good for that (in terms of servers)
i hear that if u install a gui on it u then get a lot of helpers
yeah i use it for servers, its quick and generally secure
i haev some boxen at work with hundreds of days uptime running slack
oh I do have a debian VM or 2 running a mail server or 2, mainly due to version differences between ubuntu and debian
i must update my email some time, i'm still using pine
I use thunderbird
for some reason I hate evolution
does that need a gui ?
if so i'd have to replace my CGA monitor
I have 2x 24" 1080p monitors
they might be 23"
very nice indeed
tax time was good to me ;->
brb just need to pop up to the post office
I used to have a 17" and a 19"
have the fun
or a pie
damn I could so go a pie but its 11:40PM here
Hi guys - I'm back - I ran the lspci -vv command and linux sees the PCI Netmos card
But it shows a number of I/O ports - starting at 1000
try 'em all
Ironically the command does not show the onboard LPT port that is at 378
that is normal. it only shows pci cards.
Say - since I am a linux newbie - is there a place where these commands are described??
* pjm back
get a pie?
hahh no, i had to post off my expenses to work
Like "lspci -vv"
the command is lspci
commands are generally described in man pages
the -vv is an option to tell it to be more verbose
most commands have an associated man page
yeah if you run 'man lspci' you'll see all the options for that command
-vvv is more
you can also do things like lspci | more and it'll give you the info a page at a time
less is better than more
hah is it?
I prefer more than less
>> lspci | more
Very dos like - I can handle that .. ;-)
Yes I can see how you can get into info overload with some of these verbose options..
Well I really meant to say a much more basic question - how did you know to use the lspci command?
* archivist bets parts of less being folded into more
but yeah now that i have tried less i think i like it more ;-.
I think I may need Linux for dummies or something similar
or just play around with it for a while
if you hit a problem google it ;->
Dave911, man lspci in a terminal window
archivist, he was asking how we knew to use the lspci command
OK... google - I don't know how I lived without that before ..
and its in the emc manual
I'm 26 don't call me old *sob* i already have grey hairs
ey does that mean i can be a young greybeard?
I have been grey since highschool.
What is the best way to "try" - a lpt port? Hey at least you have hair!
I think theres less of that than there was
plug a printer into it?
I'm thinking attach stepper driver - go back to step conf - add port - reassign pins etc?
although in linux thats probably a bad idea
Dave911 next time your on that machine in the terminal window put in "sudo apt-get install xchat" (no quotes)
>> plug a printer into it? >although in linux thats probably a bad idea
Whew that was close - I was going to look really silly if that was the answer.. :-)
then in applications internet you should have an irc client, so you can talk to us
when it asks for a password its your login password
Oh i don't know if its mentioned in the docs but you can set it to auto login as well, just to make life a little easier
Auto logon - that is an excellent idea.... I'll stick the IRC chat client on the computer - good idea ..
twas invaluable to me
one of the first jobs now is install xchat and browser and setup networking
we were thinking about running wireless, but I pushed for wired
After I loaded this new PC off the Hardy Heron live CD - I had it plugged into the net and it told me that I should do some updates.. should I do the updates - or is that a bad idea??
somewhat glad i did
they are generally a good idea
especially if you havent used it and changed the setup much
there could be quite a large amount of them so watch for that if your bandwidth is tight
The Hardy Heron install is about 24 hours old - I have a pretty big internet hose so bandwidth is not a problem - I just didn't want to update something and screw something up
also your ISP might provide a mirror of the ubuntu stuff, If you use that normally its unmetered and way faster than using the ubuntu servers
nah you shouldn't have a problem installing updates until you start doing more funky stuff
(custom video drivers, or emc versions etc)
The browser and networking was hot as soon as I loaded the live cd - Ubuntu is pretty impressive! I think I am hooked!
oh if you can use an up to date linux hardware support is way better than windows
except for wireless cards ;->
most of those suck ass
What is the best way to do wireless with Ubuntu?
run cat 5 ;->
basically before you buy a card, look for ones that work out of the box
I like the cat 5 solution also ---- when I forget to plug it in - I call that wireless .. ;-)
then go and try to find the exact same model
lots of times changing between a V2 and V3 of the same Ma311 or whatever will kill it
sometimes its nice
>>look for ones that work out of the box
Via google - etc?
I had a MA111 USB wifi adaptor that I got all settled in to bash into getting working, plugged it in, and then network manager popped up asking me which wireless network i'd like to steal
i mean login to
yeah, look for results in the forums etc
or use the words "out of the box"
but yeah, do homework before buying stuff like that or you can wind up with a real pain in the ass
I just did a quick search on the MA111 USB adapter and found references for it via the Linux questions page
heh yeah 2.4 kernels are some years old
about the wifi stuff: Be very careful with model numbers because vendors change chipsets but call the thing the same name
Perhaps an easier way would be just to grab a wireless router and let it setup a DHCP server and then plug into that?? I think I have one of those lying around here someplace ..
that stuff is now out of the box
if you have wifi adaptors floating about stick them in the box and try it
wifi support has been getting better of late
dunno how much of that will be in 8.04 but it shouldn't be too bad
Looks to me like everything Linux and EMC2 has improved greatly over the last few years ... I'm really impressed.
EMC2 is certainly awesome
Does anyone know right off hand if a Netmos 9805 PCI card is a 5 volt port card?
PCI bus voltage?
Heck if I know ... This is the Intel 945 Mini Itx Dual core atom board ... I forget the model number
Dave911: I use one of these on my mill: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130330592506
if your using the parallel port you might think about compiling your own EMC and linux kernel
it has an ethernet plug on the back. linux doesn't even know that it has a wireless connection.
I did that on ours, by default the kernel that ships with emc only uses one cpu
I've got one of those Net11 units - they are nice - but if I unplug it my daughters will be mad at me as it connects their PC to the net :-)
if you do it you can get really spectacular latency numbers
Dave911 the datasheet for the netmos 9805 says its a 5v device with 5v IO http://asemglobal.com/pdf/Nm9805.pdf
get another one - they're cheap - so much easier than messing with crappy usb wireless adapters
compiling kernels and emc and the like isn't for the faint of heart though
OK, I'll grab another one off I guess - I doubt that still make those now..
if you have any spare wifi devices stick them in the machine, you could well be plesantly suprised
yeah I wouldn't know how to pick out a new-modern equivalent to this simple device
they do exist
consumer network stuff is getting crappier and crappier as they try to add features they think people want
I put some into a display somewhere
but yeah, they were a bit crappy
I am not buying any linksys stuff anymore
>>consumer network stuff is getting crappier and crappier
tired of their crap overheating and dying
I agree. I think the quality of PC hardware in general is going downhill
gigabyte motherboards are really good nowdays
the all solid capacitors etc
really quite bulletproof
intel core2 series stuff also nice
I've had a number of PC power supply failures - I replace them and the replacements last half the lenght of the ones I replaced! :-(
buy heavy ones
seriously, i purchase them by weight
and check to make sure there are no steel weights in them
I have seen that done
Steel weights ?? That is crazy.
also don't cheap out on them, I get the heaviest $50 psu in the shop
best latency I have gotten is with the goal3 boards so far. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/goal3screenshot.png
thats not bad
I had some problems with Gigabyte MBs before - and I have stuck with Asus for a while. But I bought a bunch of supermicro boards for a customers and they are really nice - but not cheap
for some reason I dislike supermicro
don't know what it is
I have used a lot of supermicro motherboards for servers.
skunkworks, my SMP machine was hitting ~3000 while runing with the nvidia binary driver and pushing 14kfps or something in glxgears
I bought 3 supermicro cases recently for a customer with 645 watt power supplies - nice and heavy cases - like the old days
might have just been the job i was doing that put me off
I saw a working 7 year old supermicro MB on ebay for sale the other day - it was a running dual cpu model that was a running take out -- pretty impressive I thought
I have about 12 systems I assembled with supermicro boards 3 years ago and none have failed.
ey pjm how much did the vfd and encoder cost?
yep - I have never had a supermicro board fail.
I had a gigabyte solid cap board fail
but that was after a mouse had nested on it
I just retired one that I built pre2000
(with all the associated peeing and crapping everywhere)
Valen - what is a SMP machine?
simetric multi processing
coffee killed one gigabyte board
IE multiple CPU's
>IE multiple CPU's
Ahh... I thought it was a brand I was not familar with..
oh yeah archivist, mysql question for you, in the 5 series can you get it to send heartbeat packets for replication
Mice can do tremendous damage
Valen, slave sucks
atm i have a nasty hack involving a cron job a spare table and a now() statement
I have multi-master replication setup
multimaster requires expertise
well it is all working currently, and i know there is an actual heartbeat option in 6
Valen the VFD was £5 initially, plus £50 when i accidentially blew up the module
6 is retired
its just the firewall at the other end drops the connection after a few minutes
and the 360ppr encoder was something like 8£ off ebay
damn, I need better scrap yards lol
Valen most of it is written up at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
yeah thats what i was looking at
somebody posted it on the list
ah really, today?
the rigid tapping on the mill is as smooth as
never broken a tap yet
17/09/09 3:30 sam sokolik
person who posted pjm's wiki page
PJM - Thanks for the lookup on the 9805 card!
Does anyone have experience with the GS2 (Automation direct) driver for EMC2?
I always post his video... ;)
think it would work to have something like a hall pickup on the spindle for rigid tapping?
IE 1 PPR
having some difficulty working out where to put an encoder on our mill
I'd like it to be on the spindle so it doesn't get confused with all the backlash in the gear train
>>IE 1 PPR
problem is the spindle moves a whole bunch
Is that possible?
evidently not ;->
i did make an encoder disk to fit around the spindle on my mill before doing it properly
how would you tell which way the spindle is turning with 1ppr?
PULSE PULSE ... PULSE ..... PULSE PULSE ... PULSE
emc2 is good but not magic :-)
>>emc2 is good but not magic :-)
The bubble has burst ..... ;-)
What about just doing threading with 1PPR?
that can work ok if your spindle speed is very stable
better on a powerful lathe than a light one
So do you just feed the index pulse input and leave off the encoder A and B pulse inputs?
yes the software encoder component has a single-input mode (counter mode) and interpolated position output - you use those
but a real encoder is always better
The manual also says you can just use the Index and A pulse for threading and not go quadrature - obviously direction will not be known then also
right, that's the same as what I just said, but less detail of how to hook it up in hal
If you aren't doing rigid tapping and no noise issues from the encoder then quadrature really shouldn't matter a far as accuracy ? correct?
I have a lot more reading to do in the integrator manual - but is the details for the spindle encoder setup (single pulse, index plus A, index plus A and B) in the Hal section?
I don't understand the question
an encoder with many counts per revolution lets the Z axis track the spindle position. With one count per revolution, you must guess where it is between pulses - the best guess is to assume it is moving a constant speed - this is sometimes fairly valid if the lathe is powerful - sometimes grossly wrong if the lathe spindle is less powerful
if you have a desktop lathe and hear the spindle slow down when you thread, you will get drunken (wandering) threads with 1ppr
with an encoder you will still get good threads.
Sorry.... My quest is for max spindle speed while threading with an existing spindle encoder. I believe if I hook up just the index and only channel A and I don't have noise issues that I will be able to go fast but still maintain max resolution for the software. If I go quadrature I need to half the spindle speed to be able to catch all of the edges of the Quad signal
it is not a noise/interference problem at all
you are right - index plus single pulse (counter mode) will let you turn a certain encoder twice as fast for a certain base period, before you start losing count
Cool - thanks for verifying my thinking....
This lathe probably won't be able to do rigid tapping as the spindle is very large and the spindle drive motor is 30 kw - so reversing it quickly is not likely.. ;-)
it should not matter the speed of the reversing process if u have a nice encoder that lets EMC2 track the speed properly
I see your point but I might run out of tap threads before I can reverse the spindle - it is just very large to stop and reverse - lots of momemtum
yes with emc2 the tap will always go a little deeper than you ask for - how deep depends on how fast you're going and how your spindle accelerates
when in doubt just go slower
this is the tradeoff for being able to tap with any old spindle motor
>> when in doubt just go slower
Good point - I need to change my thinking about that then.....
>>this is the tradeoff for being able to tap with any old spindle motor
That is a good tradeoff!
I need to go talk to another guy about a different lathe retrofit today. Probably a very large CNC lathe. This thing will likely have 1980's vintage servo drives with resolvers perhaps..
skunkworks_; did you hear from MarkPictor lately ?
yeah I like it too - and it's not hard to compensate for
Anything I should watch out for? I know that someone - Jon Elson sells resolver to encoder boards..
piasdom: no - I have not.
yep I use his resolver boards on my lathe
except mine is 70s not 80s
70's ... whoa - how did that work out - any pitfalls?
nope, works great
skunkworks_; last i heard...he had ordered the pcb and would get it(or them) to me
So if the feed drives and the spindle drive is ok - then that should be practical with resolver assuming the machine isn't junk..
skunkworks_; i asked you awhile back about the landing(what i call the landing).....
skunkworks_; whay i needed to know was the width of the endmill needed and the hole sizes
yep it works for me. is his lathe currently working? if so I doubt it'll be overly hard to retrofit.
with the resolvers I get 1/204800 inch resolution on my lathe
I use pointed mills. (that mills a .008" to .010" isolation)
This shop owner is looking for a used lathe that can swing a 30+ inch diameter disk and he wants it to basically function but all of the lathes he is looking at have really old fanuc controls on them. Antique stuff.
skunkworks_; i have a .01" pointed
So we are going to talk today about doing a retrofit on it after he buys it.
[15:09:09] <skunkworks_> http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm
He is looking at some 30,000 lb lathes that are going for as little as $15K - less than 50 cents per pound!
30" is quite a swing
Machine prices are really in the dumper in the midwest
rust-belt area yes
Yes - the one lathe he has spotted can do 37" but he only needs 30"
what tolerance is his 30" job?
something so old might be very worn
The lathes he is looking at are in NJ but there is a lot of stuff near Detroit that they are being sold really cheap
Dave911: where are you located?
Near Fort Wayne, IN
[15:12:23] <piasdom> http://www.engraving-machines-plus.com/U-Marq-Carbide-Cutter_p_44.html
tolerance - I'm not positive but I think in the .010 range is ok for the contouring portions. They are using a hydraulic tracer on a large manual lathe right now.
>>something so old might be very worn
Besides the drive condition - the physical wear is my next biggest concern. It would not be hard to spend $15 and buy a worn out machine.
>> Wi here.
WI near lacrosse
Geez - that is pretty close consider the size of the WEB ;-)
stones throw? ;)
skunkworks_; the tool i use has about a 20 degrees angle /w a .01" flat..would that work ?
Hey if Palin can see Russia from Alaska _ I think a stones throw is about right! ;-) (Sorry to mention Palin ;-) )
give it a try.
As usual you guys have been AWESOME - I really appreciate the help and sure hope I can help you guys in the future also! Thanks
I'm off to do some testing and find my added LPT port! :-)
good evening.A question about the system with gantry axis.Is possible with emc control 2 axis sincronized?
yes, but *I* dont know how.
Jymm, ok thanks.i have on a maschine 2 axis vertical , meccanical connection with the table on 2 axis, and i want move with master slave system
cradek thats some mighty fine resolvin you got on that lathe
using TkEmc and emc 2.3.0 I tried the S for resume and didn't get a response; is this broken or did I do something wrong?
resume with the mouse works just fine. :-)
P & S work just fine under 2.2.5 on my other machine
[18:26:35] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89856
"Up to now, I have been searching mainly in SE Michigan. This area has a few things going for it. It is easy to get to for most of the previous attendees"
I wonder why he thinks this is true
they are days away from each other - the old location was much nearer the middle of the country.
heh, it's a long ways from texas...
it's a long way from almost everywhere except ... uh, near there
yes I do realize that is a content-free statement
in IL we had people drive from CA and VT with about equal suffering :-)
I like kansas :-)
yep that was nice for us
but heck, I might go to MI
BJT-Work_ is now known as BJT-Work
I have a big lake between.. ;)
puddle. the atlantic is bigger!
hm, 'which state' is kind of irrelevant for you attending isn't it?
yup which country bugs me :)
I wonder if we should do something during/alongside one of the UK model engineering shows
there are a lot of you uk emc users. you should some day get your shit together and meet up.
I've heard talk of it for years now...
I have met one, spoken to a secone emailed a third....
can't you all just get on a bus and meet in an hour or two? your country is so very small... :-)
actually had a mach user to work and invited Ian W. Wright in an email tonight
but seriously - I bet you'd get a bunch of other EUers too, if you arranged something
I went to Inverness the other week to fetch the lathe... noticed an emcer up there when I got back!
must have snatched my toy from under his nose :)
[19:29:14] <BJT-Work> http://cgi.ebay.com/1988-HARDINGE-CHNC-1-CNC-LATHE-w-SEIMENS-10T_W0QQitemZ200380373053QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?hash=item2ea799d83d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
does this look like a good candidate for an EMC conversion?
that's my lathe with 16C instead of 5C and in a fancier box
has collet closer
you can take those little covers off and there are allens in the ends of the ballscrews. take an indicator and make sure they feel right and do not have backlash.
anyone know those people?
feedback looks ok
I do not see anything obvious that looks wrong
thanks for looking
does not look freshly painted. looks like it's not heavily used.
you must use cutting oil, not water based coolant with these lathes
been used paints ok for 20 years work
special type of cutting oil?
I use soy based stuff - it smells like french fries
Will the profile made by Stepconfig work directly with the other gui fronts?
it goes everywhere so it may as well smell nice :-)
Skullworks: I think so
the X "accordion" cover looks shot
dang it is all most to New York City
be aware you can only do about 6" diameter on this, and that's pushing it - it's meant for small work
well obviously I guess, since it's a collet machine
I'm usually doing things that fit in a 5c collet :)
also beware - might have resolvers
but that's a minor problem now that pico makes those cool little convertors
did yours have resolvers?
yes still has
not much room for encoders unless you also take out the tachs and put them directly on the screws
but then you can't use the original amps
wonder what "needs a board" means
is the collet closer built into the spindle?
it's the thing on the back of the head - it pulls on a long tube
it does come out/off
it's run by air
what kind of footprint do think it has
you want room to the left for the bar to stick out (looks like that panel comes off - nice)
* BJT-Work gets a tape measure out to see if I have room here :)
heh, don't trust me if it's that close
it is tall too - 5.5-6' with the door closed I bet - maybe 7.5+ with it open
we have 10' ceilings in here
it's just a little deeper than my Samson manual lathe
I see that in the pictures now the door opens up like a clam shell
I see the track the door runs in now
hmm 16c goes up to 1 5/8 diameter
yeah that sounds pretty darn big to me
[19:56:11] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtas5hNyrfI
Does a chuck mount with a D1-6 type of mounting
I don't know about the 16C one. mine (5c) is just threaded.
its hard to tell from the pictures... I guess a call is in order
he said it was threaded
as far as he knows the controller is the only thing that does not work and it has not been repainted
so for $5500 delivered to my door does that seem like a fair price?
funny as far as MI goes... When I was into the stealth/3000gt scene - they always wanted to hold it in MI. Because it was the center of the US... ??
how many miles for that $1500? seems like plenty of $
also, frankly $4k seems like the high end for a non-working machine
I was just guessing at the freight
would you be able to go check it out?
I like the panel with the jogwheel and the little shelf - I bet the shelf drains back into the cutting oil sump - very handy
that would be an option
shipping is $1000
so a total of %k
1.5k? to retrofit
That part I have not done much research on :/
really depends on how much is already there for you to use
if you need a 7.5hp vfd, $1k
could you run that off of a rotary phase converter?
sure if it's big enough
we have a 15hp rotary phase converter in the shop
on how big a breaker?
this says 45 FLA = amps?
yeah you'd be fine
we run my 7.5 hp lathe and the 2.5 hp manual mill at the same time
wonder if this has the 1/2 or 3/8 turret
I bet 1/2, that blue tool looks too big for 3/8
the top way surface has been polished/sanded/cleaned by hand - it may have been rusty looking or something
you can see right against the cross-slide what it used to look like
they did not move it back and forth to polish underneath
that's a little worrying - I bet it's not remotely flat now
ouch that is scary
yeah I'd sure rather see it in its original condition, even if it's ugly
the polishing wasnt done by a clockmaker/engineer, would have kept the grain in line
or been smarter than to do it :-)
but, grain from a polish does show and its damned hard to take a significant amount of metal off
could well give a worse impression than its real condition
unless some power tool was used I bet it's just fine for normal use still
but I'd still go check it out - at least move the cross slide around and see if it gets loose anywhere
these don't have one shot oil - you have to oil both ballscrews - if it's not done, they might need work like mine did
so I'd want to know that too - you will be able to tell if you just take your set of allen wrenches along
I had to get this little starturn blind, by the looks after I got the rust off, it did almost no work
luckily the seller left the coating of rust on
gave me a far better impression of when it was last used
tail stock oil had dried and it had to be hit to get it moving, no sign of use only of staining from the time it was still
anybody online familiar with how EMC handles tool offsets?
is tool 2 supposed to have the variable updated in the tool file after this command
I answered this yesterday but you were not patient enough to see my answer! this will load the length of tool 2 from the tool table. (H2)
no, g43 does not change the tool table. it uses the number that's in the tool table as the new tool length offset.
is this a mill or lathe?
so what does that line do?
it offsets Z by the length of tool 2 in the tool table, then moves Z to the new 0.7874
so the G00 is associated with the .7874 and the G43 is associated with the H2?
the order of words in a line of gcode have no affect
[21:08:09] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_overview.html#sec:Order-of-Execution
there are two tiny exceptions to that: N and O must be at the start of their line
Ok, that makes sense
if you look here, you can see that the G43 [step 14] applies the tool offset before the G0 causes a motion [step 20]
So no gcode will umpdate the tool table file? It has to be edited?
G10 can update the tool table
[21:10:06] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode.html
this is the best document for quickly finding what G codes are available and what they do
you also have it on your applications / cnc menu
one other question if I may
I thought it would set the realtive = to the actual but it doesn't so I'm not sure what it does
machine realtive to machine actual
you have two different kinds of work offsets, G92 and G5x (set by G10 L2). G92.1 resets only the G92 offset.
G92.1 and then G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 will clear both offsets [or, you can clear them using the Machine menu / zero coordinate system]
how can I cancel machine realtive or make realative = actual
I have to run, others can help if you have more questions.
yes thanks cradek
? clear them using the machine menu/ zero coordinate system. Did he mean touch off all axis independently?
thats one way yes
is there a one button clear?
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away