#emc | Logs for 2009-09-01

[00:00:43] <Dave911> What makes for a really bad PC to run EMC2 on?? I grabbed a Celeron 1.2 ghz PC I got for free, loaded it up and it fails the latency test really bad! The latency is like 2,000,000 or so. How can it be that bad?
[00:02:00] <Dave911> I went back and made sure the ACPI stuff was turned on in the bios - it was not, so I turned it off. No improvement.
[00:02:48] <Dave911> Whoops - I meant I checked to make sure it was turned off - and it was not - I turned it off - no improvement
[00:06:55] <Mire> Can an EEEpc be made to run a machine? no parport so maybe not... I sure like solid state for my shop tho. plus my EEE's kbd just died. Can it be done?
[01:48:35] <dan_the_welder> hello peeps.
[01:50:08] <dan_the_welder> how do I find out what my paraport address is?
[01:51:50] <dan_the_welder> I have looked in device manager and it does not say.
[01:52:19] <dan_the_welder> I am having a suspicion that no signals are going out the paraport at all.
[01:57:19] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[02:09:03] <toastydeath> does anyone use getting things done
[02:13:22] <dan_the_welder> I've decided that I'd rather not get things done.
[02:14:07] <dan_the_welder> at least not in the sense of the "OMG ten million trivial things are super super important"
[02:14:47] <dan_the_welder> but thats just me. Sort of like the slow food movement but applied to getting things done.
[02:20:19] <toastydeath> i guess i meant the time management philosophy
[02:20:38] <toastydeath> the actual book itself
[02:26:19] <dan_the_welder> yeah I know, sorry for being so flippant
[02:28:29] <dan_the_welder> My time management is a disaster and I looked at that GTD stuff and I just don't think it will save me.
[02:32:25] <dan_the_welder> so anyone know how to confirm that paraport is loaded and working?
[02:32:55] <dan_the_welder> I have tried two different cables and two breakout boards.
[02:33:26] <Mire> lsmod lists all loaded kernel modules. u kno that i bet.
[02:35:08] <Mire> I got a breakout board with leds that twiddle when its alive. That's how I solved this last time.
[02:36:41] <dan_the_welder> I show paraport and hal_paraport
[02:37:10] <Valen> why do you think it isnt working?
[02:37:18] <dan_the_welder> I have a logic probe but I am not logical
[02:37:55] <dan_the_welder> not getting clean direction change from low to high just pulsing on both set and direction
[02:38:04] <dan_the_welder> step and direction
[02:39:10] <Valen> can you influence that with emc?
[02:39:25] <Valen> ie you can tell it to pulse and not to pulse by telling it to move etc?
[02:39:56] <dan_the_welder> i am running the emc demo code and watching axis and holding the logic probe
[02:40:17] <Valen> but when you stop the demo the pulsing stops?
[02:41:04] <dan_the_welder> no
[02:41:08] <Mire> sounds like it's doin something. Do you get signals on all the pins you expect? try one that should be steady and se if it is.
[02:44:43] <dan_the_welder> well step is steady and diection is steady they stay low
[02:45:05] <dan_the_welder> no pulsing when the cable is connected,
[02:50:23] <Mire> Pulsing was at the connector on the pc, but not thru cable? noise. You have a configuration issue.
[02:52:00] <Mire> lspci lists all devices on pci bus. maybe there is a clue there?
[02:54:58] <dan_the_welder> I just connected the bob and the whole shebang to a known working computer and it goes along like it's supposed to
[02:55:07] <dan_the_welder> so yes, bad config
[02:55:18] <Mire> Any of you experienced guys can jump in and save me anytime. I found this forum 3 hrs ago and am not qualified to tell anybody anything! I have not one doubt that any of you could hack past this blindfolded with just your pinkie fingers
[02:56:52] <Mire> are you running a liveCD, Dan?
[02:57:06] <dan_the_welder> no installed, just upgraded to 2.3
[02:58:23] <Mire> hey, what part of the Earth are you in?
[02:58:29] <dan_the_welder> florida
[02:58:33] <dan_the_welder> and you?
[02:59:39] <Mire> suckramento Killafornia :) the weather's great.
[02:59:55] <dan_the_welder> same here, just cooling off for fall
[03:00:03] <dan_the_welder> good time to get back to cnc
[03:02:38] <Mire> sounds like uv been at this longer than me. I'm finally getting around to upgrading my chucker. I play w linux but Ive never seen an EMC system run; I'm going on faith and the good will of other machinists who cant help themselves either! What are you going to run?
[03:03:14] <dan_the_welder> I have a harbor freight mill that already runs and a gantry router that I built
[03:03:40] <dan_the_welder> right now I am messing with a teach mover robot arm
[03:03:58] <dan_the_welder> I have one axis working and it's god like'
[03:04:15] <dan_the_welder> up (soooo beautiful) down (amazing)
[03:04:36] <Valen> lol I'm hoping to get there soon
[03:04:49] <Valen> dad's putting the mill back togther with the ballscrews
[03:05:01] <dan_the_welder> What kind of mill?
[03:05:12] <Valen> 3 axis medium sized steel mill
[03:05:25] <Valen> 1000x300x400 travel jobby
[03:05:37] <Valen> we are using linear scales as the encoders
[03:06:03] <dan_the_welder> cool. Mine is a stepper open loop
[03:06:11] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[03:06:17] <dan_the_welder> both are stepper open loop
[03:06:26] <Mire> Very nice. I've a Bridgeport knockoff I may wire with controls but I *love* manual work so no rush. My Chucker, on the other hand is ready for the plunge.
[03:07:05] <dan_the_welder> killer. I have a tiny lathe I started before it got hot and I got stupid.
[03:07:15] <tom3p> Mire: i had bad latency with EEEPC 701 , not suited to EMC
[03:07:50] <dan_the_welder> sweet, what kind of processors do those have?
[03:08:53] <Mire> thanx tom. no parport a showstopper as well? mine's a 900A... Intel Atom processor
[03:09:25] <tom3p> uh, it was >not< good for emc ( the 'sweet' throwes me ) and i forget the processor, no longer have it
[03:10:21] <Valen> celeron 600
[03:12:07] <dan_the_welder> interesting.
[03:12:55] <dan_the_welder> I am fond of other peoples junk computers. and "sweet" that you can run EMC on an EEEPC.
[03:13:21] <Mire> ? Oh you've tried it. That will save me some time.
[03:13:41] <dan_the_welder> by fond I mean all my friends now donate their junk to me.
[03:13:43] <Valen> multi processing seems to give good benifits
[03:14:25] <dan_the_welder> I have not tried EMC on EEpc I thought tom3p did!
[03:17:19] <Mire> I've been testing EMC on my EEEpc just to get familiar with it. I have no expectation that it will work for actual use, but it would be nice if it did. I'm so new at this I don't know how to determine if the latency is in bounds or not. Tom tested on his 701 and found it lacking.
[03:18:27] <dan_the_welder> ah cool. I wonder if emc will work on an ARM processor like this http://www.mini-box.com/ARM-Systems
[03:22:11] <tom3p> to find out how well emc runs on a pc. run the livecd. and while running the livecd run the supplied latency tests. then read the wiki for the numbers that determine suitable/unsuitable ( not a simple answer :(
[03:28:31] <Mire> My 900a has always been capable and it sure does run the software but I need a PCI slot so I can stop worrying about eeepc. boys and girls it's been fun. I'll be back.
[04:08:04] <dan_the_welder> I am trying to follow the instructions in the troublshooting wiki and I am getting a permission denied when I try to rmmod pcspkr.
[04:08:08] <dan_the_welder> any thoughts?
[04:08:20] <eric_unterhausen> sudo rmmod pcspkr?
[04:08:47] <eric_unterhausen> if it says you aren't a sudoer, life is hard
[04:09:02] <dan_the_welder> life IS hard
[04:09:30] <eric_unterhausen> life is hard and then someone dumps a cold 5 gallon bucket of water over your head when you are welding
[04:10:00] <dan_the_welder> that worked but the instruction above that "su- echo install pcspkr bababaaadaanf" gives permission denied
[04:10:18] <dan_the_welder> wet welders are unhappy welders
[04:10:32] <eric_unterhausen> I had a friend that used to do that to his fellow welders
[04:10:47] <eric_unterhausen> apparently it's really funny
[04:11:01] <dan_the_welder> hmm. I'd be pissed
[04:11:21] <dan_the_welder> there is that whole electrocution thing to worry about.
[04:11:41] <eric_unterhausen> the worry only lasts less than a minute
[04:11:48] <eric_unterhausen> what was the sudo echo nonsense?
[04:12:02] <dan_the_welder> from the troubleshooting page in the wiki
[04:12:11] <eric_unterhausen> do you have a link?
[04:13:04] <dan_the_welder> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[04:14:41] <eric_unterhausen> boy, that's a linux hacker way of doing things if I ever saw one
[04:15:34] <dan_the_welder> got a better idea? I mean I learned all this command line bizness to use EMC.
[04:15:53] <dan_the_welder> boy was I pissed when there was not a GUI for everything
[04:16:01] <dan_the_welder> I got over it.
[04:16:22] <eric_unterhausen> I'm not good at command line nonsense
[04:17:02] <eric_unterhausen> they are just writing something to /etc/modprobe.d/rtai directory
[04:18:36] <eric_unterhausen> you can just rmmod pcspkr for now
[04:20:08] <dan_the_welder> did it.
[04:20:17] <dan_the_welder> kinda done for tonight I think
[04:21:22] <eric_unterhausen> what kind of machine are you trying to fix?
[04:22:07] <dan_the_welder> teachmover robot arm
[04:23:03] <eric_unterhausen> I have one of those
[04:23:18] <eric_unterhausen> do you want to send it commands over the serial?
[04:23:43] <eric_unterhausen> or were you going to replace the electronics
[04:23:55] <dan_the_welder> threw out the guts and am using discrete drives
[04:24:17] <dan_the_welder> put it on a 4 foot rail so it can go back and forth too.
[04:24:54] <dan_the_welder> I got one drive hooked up and I am moving one axis at a time around with emc. it's pretty rad.
[04:25:11] <eric_unterhausen> why troubleshoot then?
[04:25:58] <dan_the_welder> the PC i was using won't work. so I grabbed another with a good config from my router.
[04:26:16] <eric_unterhausen> and then?
[04:26:29] <dan_the_welder> it works!
[04:26:49] <eric_unterhausen> so the intention is to troubleshoot until we can change that ?
[04:27:35] <dan_the_welder> just trying to fuigue out what is wrong with the pc I want to use with the teachmover
[04:28:01] <eric_unterhausen> how does it not work?
[04:28:24] <dan_the_welder> I don't think I am getting ANY signal out the parallel port.
[04:29:58] <eric_unterhausen> is it enabled in the bios (he says ducking)
[04:30:09] <dan_the_welder> interesting
[04:30:16] <dan_the_welder> did not even think of that
[04:33:05] <dan_the_welder> it's on and the address was there. rebooting now
[04:33:25] <dan_the_welder> so have you got your teachmover going?
[04:33:41] <eric_unterhausen> I can make it move using the serial port
[04:33:58] <eric_unterhausen> but I'm not really that interested in it since a batch of the gears are stripped
[04:34:08] <dan_the_welder> that sucks.
[04:34:19] <dan_the_welder> in the steppers or in the arm
[04:34:31] <eric_unterhausen> in the arm, between the axles and the gears
[04:35:05] <dan_the_welder> wrist?
[04:35:20] <eric_unterhausen> no, down by the steppers
[04:35:41] <dan_the_welder> unh. no spare parts out there in the world?
[04:36:06] <eric_unterhausen> I bought it for $50 of my boss' money, not a big priority
[04:36:15] <dan_the_welder> ha ha awesome.
[04:37:16] <dan_the_welder> mine is actually a "Service Arm" teach/mini mover knock off with chain drive. pretty cute. I am gonna teach it to weld........eventually
[04:37:43] <eric_unterhausen> I have an actual welding robot, in pieces
[04:37:49] <eric_unterhausen> GE P50
[04:38:01] <dan_the_welder> a friend found it in the trash. some art student was using it and threw it out, he gave it to me.
[04:39:34] <dan_the_welder> I was lusting after one of those p50's on Ebay but the freight is a killer to florida.
[04:39:52] <dan_the_welder> are you gonna fix it?
[04:40:07] <eric_unterhausen> no
[04:40:19] <eric_unterhausen> for one thing, they are dangerous
[04:40:35] <eric_unterhausen> and the electronics got hit by a flood
[04:40:51] <eric_unterhausen> I have very little money in it, bought it when the university threw it out
[04:41:02] <dan_the_welder> dangerous because of the flood damage?
[04:41:18] <eric_unterhausen> no, because it will move fast enough to put a hole in your head
[04:41:38] <dan_the_welder> gad I wish FSU would surplus a robot for me.
[04:42:00] <dan_the_welder> ha ha oh well, better stay away from cars, they are deadly too.
[04:42:02] <eric_unterhausen> I think it may be too late for that, the robot arm research business is pretty dead in the U.S.
[04:42:11] <dan_the_welder> really?
[04:42:25] <eric_unterhausen> maybe some industrial engineers
[04:43:06] <dan_the_welder> tons of college engineers on youtube doing stuff with arms.
[04:43:06] <eric_unterhausen> most engineering research is funded by the military
[04:43:31] <dan_the_welder> Industry is so much more fun
[04:43:47] <dan_the_welder> gonna make my trash robot make me dollars
[04:43:53] <eric_unterhausen> industry is spending all their time trying to ship manufacturing to China
[04:44:18] <dan_the_welder> those people are stupid and when it comes around they will be screwed
[04:45:09] <dan_the_welder> they go to china crafty americans buy the equipment, mini industrial resurgance in the US of neo-techno cottage industry
[04:45:32] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, when the Chinese make everything, it will turn out that they don't need the overpriced management types
[04:46:07] <dan_the_welder> exactly. they are shooting themselves in the head and it's obvious to everyone but them.
[04:46:11] <eric_unterhausen> Penn State sold a robot with hydraulic actuators
[04:46:22] <dan_the_welder> thats archaic
[04:46:34] <eric_unterhausen> a little
[04:46:39] <eric_unterhausen> I'm sure they are still out there
[04:47:18] <eric_unterhausen> I could have made it work if I could talk the electric company into running three phase to my house
[04:47:35] <dan_the_welder> oh yeah. I kinda went nuts about robots, read all I could, spent retarded amount of time on ebay and other surplus sites.
[04:47:46] <dan_the_welder> I got three phase but not 460
[04:48:01] <dan_the_welder> most of the snazzy welding bots are 460 volt
[04:48:19] <eric_unterhausen> the p50 was only 230
[04:48:26] <dan_the_welder> so add another 3 grand for a transformer.
[04:48:43] <dan_the_welder> hmmm.
[04:49:13] <eric_unterhausen> It was rated at 40 amps
[04:49:16] <dan_the_welder> if freight rates ever come down I'll snag one.
[04:49:27] <dan_the_welder> 40 amps doable.
[04:49:29] <eric_unterhausen> probably could have been rigged for single phase too
[04:50:32] <dan_the_welder> my main fear of a used "proper" industrial robot is that it would cost a jillion dollars for a replacement board if something ever happened.
[04:50:42] <dan_the_welder> all proprietary
[04:50:46] <eric_unterhausen> yup
[04:50:59] <dan_the_welder> EMC is more fun.
[04:51:02] <eric_unterhausen> the electronics in my 'bot is totally worthless for anything but that 'bot
[04:51:14] <dan_the_welder> exactly
[04:51:15] <eric_unterhausen> somebody has a puma
[04:51:22] <dan_the_welder> hot
[04:51:54] <dan_the_welder> shit, EMC will control a robot.
[04:52:27] <dan_the_welder> I am going to program a teaching mode once I get this thing working
[04:53:36] <dan_the_welder> couple of joysticks and a foot pedal, bada bing.
[04:53:46] <dan_the_welder> TIG bot 2009
[05:41:59] <ilya> The to-and-fro season...
[07:50:51] <ilya> Can I create an O-call, for a Lathe, *in absolute coordinates*, and then move coordinate systems with g92, each time about 0.5 mm in x-direction eachtime, withing another routine?
[07:51:16] <ilya> (Answer, I'll have read logs or turn on laptop again.)
[08:05:48] <ilya> Is the "g64.1 p0.05" command ambigous? Change to "g64 ;.1 p0.05" lets parser to omit this line; this is a code for Lathe.
[08:15:13] <micges_work> G64.1 Pn is to enable motion blending at 0.05 and disable linking colinear vectors toghether
[08:16:17] <micges_work> g64 is to set maximum velocity mode
[08:21:04] <ilya> OK, wait... An intimate moment... first arc... :)
[08:21:40] <micges_work> you want to be alone now ?:)
[08:21:45] <micges_work> ok
[08:31:26] <ilya> oh yeah. about 40 minutes figuring out "g03 z68. x36. k4. i0." I'm a SteveMaster!
[08:32:17] <ilya> EMC2 is happy (I know, though, ...men don't ask.)
[08:37:55] <ilya> G41 doesn't run without g41/g42 and g90. I tried g91, and g64.1 P_number_ didn't work. (Or it's a complete nonsense.)
[08:45:16] <ilya> It's almost 5 p.m. afternoon... micges_work how much time is there?
[08:49:19] <micges_work> 11am
[08:50:43] <ilya> micges_work: East coast of the USA/Canada?
[08:51:48] <micges_work> Poland
[08:51:52] <micges_work> europe
[08:54:18] <ilya> Can I gradually move my o-routine with g92 x- offsets towards less x-coordinate starting from the derived from the diameter x-coordinate?
[08:56:40] <ilya> Anyway, I can try
[09:12:52] <Valen> what you think of http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HEAVY-DUTY-SHELVING_W0QQitemZ170376407263QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Business_Industrial_Retail_Shop_Fitting_Supplies?hash=item27ab39a8df&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[09:12:55] <Valen> for my shed?
[09:12:59] <micges> micges is now known as micges_plasma
[09:16:57] <archivist> I thought they were too lightweight till I saw the support beam under the shelf, wood is nice on machine parts
[09:17:28] <Valen> Is it square section or angle?
[09:17:37] <Valen> looks like square
[09:18:01] <archivist> square/rectangle
[09:18:05] <Valen> (we be getting a new shed, 3.4mx5.4m to get all my crap out of the house as the missus says)
[09:18:48] <archivist> heh, neva, /me remains old free and single and keeps the good stuff indoors
[09:19:31] <ilya> should i set 'g92 x60' then program g92.1, and only then g92.3 to actually use the offset?
[09:20:21] <ilya> archivist: good point, but /what about kids/? Why no one thinks about the kids these days?
[09:20:45] <archivist> kids are horrible
[09:21:01] <ilya> archivist: I'm a kid. I'm *only* 24! Send me some pocket money, if you're single.
[09:21:09] <ilya> I'm good.
[09:21:11] <ilya> :)
[09:21:13] <ilya> see?
[09:23:19] <Valen> I'll still have my computer room inside
[09:25:07] <Valen> well dad thinks the shelves are worth it
[09:25:20] <Valen> probably on par with the steel cost at $200
[09:25:33] <ilya> archivist: what if you meet beautiful lady and your kids are smart as you and beautiful as your lady?
[09:25:45] <Valen> bugger the kids
[09:25:54] <Valen> actually bugger the lady, you get in less trouble for that
[09:28:05] <Valen> oooh the bid snipering has begun
[09:28:20] <Valen> i'ma hold out to 20 seconds left
[09:28:51] <Valen> 40 seconds
[09:29:00] <archivist> I won a cnc lathe, I have to go and collect
[09:29:48] <Valen> $184
[09:30:17] <Valen> I am now the proud owner of some shelving
[09:30:47] <ilya> can I call o-routines /withing other o-routines/?
[09:31:22] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:31:32] <Valen> zup, like my shelves?
[09:31:42] <ilya> peace V,
[09:34:10] <Valen> oooh I'll have to paint them, I'm thinking hot pink ;->
[09:47:55] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:43:27] <i-pink> hii
[11:43:47] <i-pink> ?
[11:43:56] <i-pink> someone here?
[11:44:00] <archivist> yes
[11:44:07] <i-pink> ha ok
[11:45:08] <Valen> no
[11:45:11] <i-pink> i install the emc2, but i dont know what is the supported file
[11:46:30] <archivist> gcode is a text format, the extention used is .ngc
[11:47:16] <i-pink> if i sketch part in google sketcup how i am convert it to ngc?
[11:47:57] <i-pink> or if i draw part in varicad how i convert it to varicad?
[11:49:14] <Valen> you typically need a good cad program to generate gcode directly
[11:49:54] <archivist> cad to ngc conversion is whats known as cam
[11:50:27] <Valen> oh yeah, mounting motors on our mill tomorrow
[11:50:34] <Valen> dad has been practising his G-Code
[11:50:34] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[11:51:28] <i-pink> i have cnc with 3 axis
[11:52:49] <i-pink> what is the preferred draw program for linux?
[11:55:57] <jthornton> I use qcad
[11:57:45] <i-pink> qcad is free?
[11:58:45] <DaViruz> there is a free version and a commercial version, the only difference is that the commercial version has polyline support
[11:59:07] <DaViruz> functional difference that is
[12:00:59] <i-pink> what is polyline support??
[12:02:17] <Valen> support for polylines
[12:13:20] <i-pink> what is polylines??
[12:15:24] <i-pink> Valen ^
[12:23:42] <micges_plasma> i-pink: http://www.autocadcentral.com/Tutorials/Lesson%205/lesson5.htm
[12:25:15] <micges_plasma> when you save that file as dxf and open in qcad without polylines support then you will see nothing
[14:02:09] <Guest340> hello
[14:02:19] <Guest340> please one doubt
[14:02:35] <Guest340> is possible em c run wit this driver:
[14:02:45] <Guest340> http://www.netmotion.com/htm_files/mc_controllers.htm
[14:02:53] <Guest340> is control wit a usb
[14:05:17] <archivist> EMC is a closed loop system, USB currently has too much latency to be used so is not supported
[14:06:55] <cradek> Guest340: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[14:08:35] <Guest340> in future no run?
[14:08:51] <Guest340> i belive mach 3 run wit this
[14:09:12] <cradek> Guest340: this page explains why that is bad hardware for use with EMC2: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign
[14:09:15] <Guest340> some pc no ave a parpor
[14:09:19] <cradek> it also explains how to identify good hardware
[14:09:26] <Guest340> ok
[14:09:38] <Guest340> very tanks for you ressponse
[14:09:45] <cradek> welcome
[14:09:46] <Guest340> :(
[14:09:53] <Guest340> tanks
[14:10:46] <Valen> archivist I was under the impression the mesa USB stuff was supported?
[14:10:53] <SWPadnos> nope
[14:11:29] <SWPadnos> their 7I43 board, which has a USB+parallel port option, is supported only using the parallel port
[14:11:33] <SWPadnos> their other cards are PCI
[14:11:43] <Jymm> I doubt USB wil ever be supported
[14:11:58] <Jymm> ethernet however...
[14:12:11] <Valen> ethernet would be worse than usb in terms of latency
[14:12:14] <Valen> and jitter
[14:12:16] <archivist> I think some "volunteer" has to get the right logic analyser and do some serious work I see no impediment to success
[14:12:34] <Valen> I wouldn't use it anyway lol
[14:12:39] <Valen> PCI all the way ;->
[14:12:43] <Jymm> Valen: Oh, is that why the big boys use it?
[14:12:52] <SWPadnos> either is technically feasible, but there are features that couldn't be used in such a system, such as anything that requires feedback to determine the motion profile (like threading and tapping ...)
[14:12:59] <Valen> I was refering to USB
[14:13:18] <archivist> USB has a determined speed mode
[14:13:31] <Valen> I believe the "big boys" ones use the bit hanging off the end of the bus to actually close the servo loop
[14:13:38] <SWPadnos> it's still useless for feedback-based motion
[14:13:54] <archivist> SWPadnos, its a bidirectional mode!
[14:13:54] <Valen> archivist, it doesn't help with jitter and the like
[14:14:20] <SWPadnos> it's meant for streaming video/audio, so there are no latency guarantees
[14:14:26] <Valen> the usb spec is designed around moving large lumps of data, it cares nothing for timing critical stuff
[14:14:32] <SWPadnos> actually, there are no delivery guarantees with the isochronous mode (AFAIK)
[14:14:48] <SWPadnos> isochronous specifically says that error packets will be dropped
[14:15:29] <archivist> I think the mode will work and be guaranteed it we kill the new device stuff
[14:16:00] <SWPadnos> could be
[14:16:09] <SWPadnos> gotta get back to work. see you
[14:16:53] <archivist> Im on my technically last day at work
[14:19:23] <Guest340> usb no suport in futere usb?
[14:19:26] <Valen> retiring or whar?
[14:19:39] <Jymm> archivist: TRASH THE PLACE!!! GRAB THE TORCH BURN IT ALL!!!
[14:20:05] <Guest340> it for me?
[14:20:06] <Valen> Rule 1
[14:20:08] <Valen> http://store.schlockmercenary.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=T-R01
[14:20:33] <archivist> Valen, I got redundancy , boss has sold site he wants to work at home
[14:20:49] <Valen> what (was) your day job?
[14:21:02] <archivist> clockmaker
[14:21:22] <Valen> I thought that was your hobby lol
[14:21:23] <archivist> previous lives are electronics and programming
[14:21:32] <Guest340> ok
[14:21:47] <Valen> If you don't mind my asking how old are you?
[14:21:51] <archivist> 57
[14:21:52] <Jymm> archivist: Don't forget pole danser
[14:21:59] <Jymm> dancer
[14:22:05] <Guest340> emc no suport usb then
[14:22:07] <Valen> time to retire anyway ;->
[14:22:11] <archivist> send me one jymm
[14:22:50] <archivist> self supporting and free gratis
[14:23:07] <Jymm> * Jymm sends archivist a 70yo pole dancer
[14:23:20] <archivist> thats just nasty
[14:23:25] <Jymm> ROTF
[14:23:33] <Valen> ouch, did you pee in his beer or something?
[14:23:45] <archivist> I will now
[14:28:33] <Guest340> one doubt
[14:28:46] <Guest340> usb more speed tan parport, yes?
[14:29:04] <Guest340> how usb have a slow latency?
[14:29:13] <Valen> yes but less reliable in terms of timing
[14:29:15] <archivist> yes BUT usb currently has unavoidable delays
[14:29:28] <Valen> latency is the time between when an action is commanded and when it is taken
[14:29:38] <Valen> with USB that is large
[14:29:43] <Valen> with the parallel port it is small
[14:31:05] <Guest340> ok
[14:31:19] <Guest340> sory for my inglish
[14:31:22] <Guest340> :)
[14:31:27] <Valen> its ok
[14:31:32] <Guest340> I froim Brazil
[14:31:47] <Jymm> Guest340: it's English, not inglish
[14:31:55] <Guest340> :)
[14:32:16] <Valen> no, i think he was correct ;-P
[14:32:20] <Jymm> Guest340: and it's thanks, not tanks.
[14:32:53] <Guest340> thanks for englis leson
[14:32:59] <Phil31> hi all, i'm back from a long time without use my CNC. i have some trouble with my config file from older EMC2 version. i set up a new computer with the last EMC2. please some can help me ?
[14:33:20] <Jymm> Guest340: tanks --> http://www.aandmelectronics.com/images-abtA14/LAND_Type-96_Tanks_lg.jpg
[14:33:42] <archivist> Phil31, see the wiki and release notes
[14:34:10] <Phil31> ok i will try to find that ..
[14:34:41] <archivist> there are some important changes 2.2 to 2.3
[14:34:57] <Phil31> in the config file ?
[14:37:08] <Phil31> please you have a link about that ? my english is not perfect !... ;=)
[14:38:08] <Jymm> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[14:38:23] <Jymm> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.3
[14:39:10] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
[14:41:24] <Phil31> yes ty i found the update script http://axis.unpy.net/01163899959
[14:41:30] <Phil31> is it safe ?
[14:46:40] <Phil31> well it seem that after this script ( 2.0 to 2.1 ) i need again transcript in 2.3 ..? is there a better way ? start a new config ? but i'm not sure to know how do that ! :(
[14:47:36] <archivist> how did you make your first, is it a stepper system
[14:47:45] <Phil31> yes
[14:48:09] <archivist> then probably start anew with stepconf
[14:48:50] <archivist> keep a copy of old configs for reference
[14:49:59] <Phil31> how i do ? i start from the "stepper_mm" config file ? make a local home copy of this file and move my older parameters in the local copy ..?
[14:51:37] <Phil31> i modify only the stepper_mm.ini file ?
[15:00:14] <Phil31> the units seem differents for the new version .. :(
[15:02:31] <ilya> I have arranged a couple of routines, and used "g92 x-" offset of coordinate systems. How can I use "normal" coordinates again? Shall I "g00 x-" to a known coordinate and use "g92 x-" command to arrange a normal, or just genuine, coordinate system offset? It's a g-code for a Lathe.
[15:02:59] <ilya> Phil31: Try "Shift+!" to switch between imperial and metric systems.
[15:05:53] <Phil31> ty ilya, but it's not a problem in EMC2 .. i try to create a new config file from an older config file !..
[15:05:59] <cradek> ilya: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode.html
[15:06:18] <ilya> Anyway, guys and probably ladies, /and I applause to any lady here which actually know more than me/, I need your help today. It is a very small (about 30-40 lines) g-code with couple of instance of the pairs of o-words. I have only about 8MB to spend withing next 12-15 hours.
[15:06:19] <ilya> cradek: nope, help needed.
[15:06:58] <cradek> see g92, g92.1, g92.2, g92.3
[15:07:12] <ilya> cradek: ok, wait
[15:07:15] <Phil31> in my older config file, i had : INPUT_SCALE = -32.0 0
[15:07:28] <ilya> cradek: I tried g92.1
[15:07:29] <Phil31> what for the new SCALE value ?
[15:07:59] <ilya> Phil31: about -4.0 in ~/configs/sim/axis.ini
[15:08:03] <cradek> ilya: yes, g92.1 is what you want to remove the g92 offset
[15:08:39] <archivist> Phil31, why would you think that needs changing... its your machine only you know about it
[15:08:46] <Phil31> ilya : i use stepper_mm.ini finle
[15:09:21] <Phil31> i have 2 value in the INPUT_SCALE parameters, i copy same on the new SCALE parameter ?
[15:09:43] <Phil31> but in the new sample file, there is only 1 value !..?
[15:11:33] <ilya> cradek: I already tried that, but the rest of the drawing, i.e. the last finely-roughing path starts just from zero X-coordinate. I also doubt I used something OK. Can I upload this file and ask you to revise it? But not for everyone, this detail is secret of Russian government.
[15:12:20] <cradek> no sorry, I don't want to work on secret gcode
[15:13:22] <ilya> cradek: are you behind the computer, anyway--for me to ask some questions to you?
[15:14:00] <archivist> this is an open channel no secrets
[15:14:17] <ilya> archivist: it's just for my work.
[15:14:27] <archivist> if you have secrets keep them and you do the work
[15:15:21] <ilya> 45 lines of code, two pairs of o-words. Profile in absolute coordinates, and while<>endwhile for roughing (moving X- with g92)
[15:16:03] <ilya> I should ask my governemnt. I'm calling to Vvladimir P.
[15:23:10] <ilya> "g7/ g00 z0 x50 / g92 x0" sets up new coordinate system at (ZX) 0,25 [Yeah?]
[15:23:39] <Phil31> i have modify "standard_pinout.hal" and "stepper_mm.ini" .. is it all ?
[15:26:23] <Phil31> damned, i have again an error !.. can i send the log fie here ?
[15:28:00] <Phil31> something is wrong on these lines :
[15:28:02] <Phil31> net Xhome parport.0.pin-13-in => axis.0.home-sw-in
[15:28:02] <Phil31> net Yhome parport.0.pin-12-in => axis.0.home-sw-in
[15:28:02] <Phil31> net Zhome parport.0.pin-11-in => axis.0.home-sw-in
[15:28:07] <Phil31> ?
[15:28:32] <Phil31> need do "axis.0" the "axis.1" ...?
[15:29:12] <Phil31> yeaa it's working now ;)
[15:29:48] <Phil31> i'm back on my machine !.. cool, thanks you guys !
[15:30:12] <archivist> we just had to make you think a bit :)
[15:30:27] <Phil31> will try to back online later to let you know it's rocksss ! ;)
[15:30:46] <Phil31> see you soon, thanks
[15:50:25] <Dave911> Valen>latency is the time between when an action is commanded and when it is taken
[15:50:27] <Dave911> with USB that is large
[15:50:29] <Dave911> with the parallel port it is small
[15:50:30] <Dave911> Is the general consensus that doing motion control on a board such as the Mesa USB interface board via EMC2 - is not worthwhile due to the latency?
[15:50:32] <Dave911> Mach3 has some fairly successful implementations of a USB driver board, the smooth stepper, via USB but then Windows is not a Real time OS and they just live within that realm and try and keep the
[15:50:34] <Dave911> real time response control on the Smooth stepper.
[15:50:36] <Dave911> Users love USB because it is a plug and go situation - no IP addresses etc.
[15:53:14] <cradek> pci and parport do not have IP addresses and are just as plug-and-go
[15:53:36] <Jymm> No, they have Base addresses instead
[15:53:57] <Dave911> ilya>45 lines of code, two pairs of o-words. Profile in absolute coordinates, and while<>endwhile for roughing (moving X- with g92)
[15:53:59] <Dave911> I should ask my governemnt. I'm calling to Vvladimir P.
[15:54:01] <Dave911> Seriously, how secret can 45 lines of Gcode be?? You can't write encryption algorithms in Gcode.. :-)
[15:54:17] <Jymm> Dave911: Yes, you can.
[15:55:06] <Dave911> But if you don't have any PCI slots and you don't have a LPT port (both mature tech.) what is the option other than ethernet?
[15:55:17] <cradek> getting a real computer
[15:55:31] <Jymm> Dave911: hammer and chisel
[15:55:50] <cradek> I understand people want USB, but it does not fit with EMC's architecture and would be a lot of work. Meanwhile, we have really great alternatives.
[15:56:37] <cradek> someone suitably interested might be able to convert EMC into a motion-queueing system with realtime response on some external device, but they would lose a lot of what makes EMC better than those other systems
[15:56:43] <Dave911> >>we have really great alternatives.
[15:56:45] <Dave911> I agree. I just wanted to hear some perspectives ....
[15:57:30] <Dave911> >>would lose a lot of what makes EMC better than those other systems
[15:57:32] <Dave911> How so... I'm just getting into EMC2
[15:58:37] <cradek> closed loop control to the PC. realtime fault monitoring. index homing, lathe threading, rigid tapping, realtime adaptive feed - NO MATTER what hardware interface you are using - they all have all the functionality
[16:01:19] <fenn> you know, if someone (whoever that might be) ported EMC2 to ARM, this USB debate would be so dead
[16:01:47] <fenn> because you could just add a USB device port to the ARM thingy and receive NML over USB
[16:02:10] <Dave911> >>NO MATTER what hardware interface you are using - they all have all the functionality
[16:02:12] <Dave911> Ahh.. excellent point. That is one thing that Mach3 struggles with due to the various hardware supported..
[16:02:14] <Dave911> >>getting a real computer
[16:02:15] <Dave911> A lot of the newer PC hardware is now coming less LPT ports, PCI ports, etc I just paid $4500 for 12 motherboards that are brand new and I had to scramble to get them since they just went obsolete - they were some of the last manufactured boards with ISA slots that didn't cost > $750 each.
[16:02:31] <cradek> Dave911: you'd also lose the ability to do realtime arbitrary control, such as running a tool changer with classic ladder
[16:02:50] <Dave911> >>index homing, lathe threading, rigid tapping, realtime adaptive feed
[16:02:52] <Dave911> And I really like this feature set.... :-)
[16:03:23] <cradek> yes if you put it in external devices, you trust vendors to write your most important code, and it's probably not going to be open source so you can fix it either
[16:03:25] <ilya> Dave911: "secret", because I can not reveal it here as is, and have to change it and ask here.
[16:04:00] <fenn> beagleboard?
[16:04:15] <Dave911> >>"secret", because I can not reveal it here as is
[16:04:17] <Dave911> Makes sense..
[16:05:07] <Dave911> Is Mesa considering making boards with the one of the newer PC buses?? I sure hope so as I see your point.
[16:05:22] <cradek> I think they have pci express cards already
[16:05:54] <Dave911> Ohh...... sorry I am behind in my catalog reading apparently.. ;-)
[16:06:00] <ilya> Does "g7/ g00 z0 x50 / g92 x0" commands set up a new coordinate system at (Z,X) 0,25?
[16:06:05] <ilya> Am I right to try to parser the gode ("g-code"="gode")?
[16:08:17] <Dave911> Thanks for the insight.... so far all is making sense. I'm waiting on a new motherboard to arrive so I can give EMC2 another shot at the LPT port. The computer I picked has latencies of 2,000,000 plus and the allowable entry only goes to 50K. I'm amazed that a motherboard can fail the test that effectively.. :-)
[16:09:03] <cradek> yeah, ouch
[16:09:11] <cradek> what video card does it have?
[16:09:22] <cradek> (video cards are usually the killer)
[16:11:02] <Dave911> I think it is a Trident AGP 4x card. I might be able to swap video cards and try it again..
[16:12:16] <cradek> I've had a pretty much 100% success rate with P3 and P4 motherboards and matrox video cards
[16:12:42] <cradek> I had to pull a scsi raid controller out of an old server class P3 to give it good latency, but that's the only tweak I remember having to make
[16:12:52] <Dave911> How about Nvidia cards?
[16:13:07] <cradek> it seems they aren't a great choice
[16:13:17] <cradek> you may be able to use them with the vesa video driver though
[16:13:35] <cradek> the nvidia binary driver is a known problem
[16:13:41] <cradek> so definitely avoid that
[16:15:06] <Dave911> OK.. since we are on this video track... What about ATI cards... I know I have some of those around here.
[16:15:29] <cradek> I think they are usually ok - again avoid the binary drivers - try the free ati driver or the vesa driver
[16:16:06] <cradek> if you have a pile of stuff, it's easy to test, plug in video card and boot cd, run latency test - no need to install or anything.
[16:17:37] <skunkworks_> cradek: how did it go with the screws?
[16:17:37] <Dave911> >>it's easy to test, plug in video card and boot cd, run latency test - no need to install or anything.>>
[16:17:39] <Dave911> Cool, that was my next question :-) Thanks, I think I will go look for some video cards now and give it a shot.....
[16:18:17] <ilya> cradek: Asus P4xxx series, any?
[16:19:32] <skunkworks_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[16:23:57] <cradek> skunkworks_: new balls ordered this morning
[16:24:54] <cradek> skunkworks_: the balls are all badly pitted, but not broken. The screw looks perfect (? how ?) and of course I can't see inside the nuts
[16:25:07] <cradek> seems like my chances of fixing it are very good
[16:33:07] <skunkworks_> sweet
[16:33:41] <Dave911> >>>>>>I think I will go look for some video cards now and give it a shot.....
[16:33:43] <Dave911> a report back ... I had another video card - with the same chipset supposidly - different board design - put it in and the latency problem is gone! Latency is now under 10,000 no matter what I do.
[16:33:44] <Dave911> Wow, like night and day! I would not have thought that was possible. So testing continues with this PC - no need to wait for another motherboard (I needed the other one anyway... )
[16:33:46] <Dave911> I'm happy.. :-) THANKS!
[16:34:01] <cradek> yay!
[16:34:10] <cradek> cheap easy fixes are nice
[16:34:36] <Dave911> I love them.... I really appreciate the tip!
[16:35:45] <cradek> welcome
[16:36:39] <Phil31> hi guys, i'm back again ! ;)
[16:37:10] <Phil31> i have a dead motor ! :( need to change it, but i don't kow how to choose a new one !..?
[16:37:48] <Phil31> some help to decide wich torque i need ..? i justknow that is NEMA 34 size
[16:37:52] <bill2or3> uhm, replace it with the same kind?
[16:38:11] <Phil31> i had search on ebay, not same same available
[16:38:36] <bill2or3> what make/model motor is it?
[16:38:40] <archivist> sure its the motor and not the driver
[16:38:44] <Phil31> and i'm not sure if the "original" was good part !.. i have buy this personal machine
[16:38:53] <Phil31> "home machine "
[16:39:26] <bill2or3> none of the motors are labeled?
[16:39:32] <Phil31> yes i change the axes control and the problem is same. the Y axe loose some pitch ..
[16:40:43] <Phil31> this is a PH296-03-A5 from VEXTA .. but again, i'm not sure that was a good choice .. it's maybe the only motor available when the old propriatary build the machine
[16:40:48] <archivist> if you mean gogging reduce max speed and acceleration see if ok
[16:41:08] <obinou> SWPadnos: concerning USB : And what if the timing would be assured *after* the usb : for exemple, using a microcontroler
[16:41:33] <Phil31> i have the same motors on X and Y and same config in the file. the X axe work great and the Y axe loos some pitch .
[16:42:21] <obinou> in my idea the pcwould send a stream of movements to do, with a time reference, and the Uc would ensure that the commands are sent to the motor simultaneously
[16:42:40] <archivist> Phil31, if the mass and friction is different then the setup should be different
[16:42:43] <cradek> obinou: that is how some other systems work, but it is not the design of EMC
[16:43:00] <SWPadnos> obinou, that would be great, until you need to base those motions on feedback
[16:43:01] <obinou> I know
[16:43:06] <cradek> obinou: read the earlier conversation for more details including all the features of EMC you would lose with this alternate design
[16:43:12] <SWPadnos> such as when threading, tapping, or doing any other type of "electronic gearing"
[16:43:22] <Phil31> archivist : ok i will try anothers settig, but i'm olmost sure that it is the motor ..
[16:43:26] <obinou> that's what i'm doing now, the reading
[16:43:43] <archivist> Phil31, steppers are fussy if driven too fast
[16:44:27] <Phil31> archivist : my actuals tests are slow speed ... i can stop the Y axe with my hand and not the X axe
[16:44:40] <obinou> The thing is, I've quite already designed the motor driver around i2c chips - but emc has a lot of feature I still want, like visualization, and g-code parsing
[16:45:14] <Dave911> OK, a newbie question....
[16:45:16] <Dave911> Is it possible to do threading and rigid tapping with an all LPT based system... no motion boards and the spindle is driven with step and direction??
[16:45:25] <archivist> Phil31, current setting too low?
[16:45:34] <cradek> Dave911: yes
[16:46:03] <Phil31> archivist dont think, it was same last time ( 1 year about )
[16:46:12] <cradek> Dave911: you just need a spindle encoder that is low enough resolution that the parport can keep up with its signal
[16:47:14] <archivist> Phil31, I suspect a driver, motors dont normally fail that way unless you have a bearing seizing up and needing maintenance
[16:47:49] <archivist> Phil31, check your screws ans slides as well
[16:47:54] <Dave911> >>you just need a spindle encoder that is low enough resolution that the parport can keep up with its signal
[16:47:55] <Dave911> OK, so feedback from the spindle is still needed to sync. I thought perhaps it was all open loop on the spindle as well.. obviously not so..
[16:47:56] <Dave911> What is a good guess for low enough resolution on the spindle encoder??
[16:48:22] <Phil31> no bearing // when i change the X driver ( wich work great on X axe ) to Y axe, the problem is again here !
[16:48:29] <cradek> Dave911: don't guess, calculate
[16:48:46] <Dave911> Is that in the Wiki someplace?
[16:48:49] <cradek> Dave911: consider your base period rate and the rpm where you want to thread, then calculate a safe resolution
[16:48:56] <Phil31> the X axe in my machine is the weighter
[16:49:37] <Dave911> So the base period has to be less than 50% of the fastest encoder pulse needed to detect or something similar??
[16:49:40] <archivist> Y screw in nut and its bearings
[16:49:57] <cradek> Dave911: yes
[16:50:40] <Phil31> well cant send some pictures, but i can try to remove the X motor and try on Y axe .. i'm pretty sure that it will work ..
[16:50:59] <Dave911> Cool... I need to do more manual reading and testing I think. So far so good. Thanks for the lightning fast help!!!!
[16:51:22] <Phil31> if it's working, that's my Y motor is out .. right ?
[16:52:10] <obinou> cradek: do you knwo if anybody tried to compile emc2 on ARM ? I see that you were talking about that this afternoon
[16:52:16] <obinou> that was my intend
[16:52:31] <cradek> was not me
[16:52:33] <obinou> (For the budget allocated I cannot use a pc)
[16:53:00] <obinou> right it was fenn
[16:53:25] <obinou> and the motor command is i2c anyway , so event less pc-ish
[16:54:30] <obinou> (sorry about wrongfully attributing comments to you cradek)
[17:07:42] <Phil31> archivist : now the test is done, i have put the X motor on the Y axe, all work great !
[17:08:43] <Phil31> ohhh fuckkk !... i found !! .. the belt is no more glued to the motor shaft !!!!
[17:11:26] <bill2or3> the belt, or the pulley?
[17:18:43] <Mire> Good morning folks. Is anybody in here near Sacramento?
[17:21:42] <archivist> Mire, if you join and login the web site there is a user map
[17:25:55] <Mire> thanks!
[17:29:23] <ilya> Can I change offsets with while endwhile?
[17:30:02] <ilya> I'm trying, but I can not change x-coordinate for new coord. system to be used in the previous o-loop?
[17:35:24] <Mire> yikes! usrmap says I'm the only geek of this sort for hundreds of miles.
[17:36:10] <archivist> there is a percentage not flying a flag
[17:36:19] <archivist> the shy type
[17:37:00] <Mire> Kirk Wallace isn't far. He's done a Hardinge HNC retrofit, and that's what I'm here to learn how to do.
[17:39:11] <Mire> I am also the shy type so I understand. I am self taught in linux so I'm always worried I look foolish.
[17:39:57] <archivist> you would be surprised just how many are self taught
[17:40:36] <archivist> as this is such a mixture of trades probably most of us
[17:41:25] <BJT-Work> I graduated from the school of hard knocks :)
[17:41:53] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work goes to run a DOS program
[17:42:00] <Mire> Wonderful! I'm in exactly the right company.
[17:43:19] <archivist> Im a clockmaker who was a programmer and electronics engineer but trained in radio and TV repair
[17:43:31] <Phil31> archivist sorry as out. the pulley of course ! sorry bad english !
[17:43:45] <Valen> most linux is self taught
[17:43:55] <Mire> cradek helped me a lot last nite. I now have a fizzling clue what hardware I require, but I know the HNC has been retrofitted many times, many ways.
[17:43:56] <Phil31> well what suggestion to choose a new motor ? what about the torque ?
[17:43:58] <Valen> there isnt much in the way of "official" training
[17:44:44] <archivist> Mire, cradek is the other user to have got his hardinge running
[17:44:59] <cradek> Mire: it's got to be nice that you have a fully working machine to start with
[17:45:13] <Valen> what are you guys using for motor power wires?
[17:45:22] <archivist> wire!!
[17:45:23] <cradek> mshaver has also done one, but long ago I think
[17:45:41] <Phil31> lol
[17:45:59] <Valen> hey archivist, got a present for you
[17:46:01] <Valen> for(( : : )); do; dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 seek=$(( $RANDOM % 1073741824));sleep 60;done
[17:46:12] <Valen> run that as root and it'll make a pretty picture
[17:46:47] <archivist> thats nasty to my disk
[17:46:49] <Mire> Neato. Is that as destructive as it looks?
[17:46:57] <Valen> havent tested it yet
[17:47:12] <Valen> been meaning to fire it up in a VM and get it propperly tuned ;->
[17:47:43] <archivist> sleep 60 might be a bit slow
[17:47:45] <cradek> Valen: that kind of thing is stupid, and not funny
[17:48:18] <Phil31> please how choose the torque i need for my motor ?
[17:48:40] <archivist> Phil31, measurement is best
[17:49:21] <Phil31> ok , how ? what to measure ?
[17:49:38] <Valen> archivist liked it ;-P
[17:49:53] <archivist> measure the torque to rotate your shaft
[17:50:04] <Phil31> how ?
[17:50:23] <archivist> lever and weight or pulley and weight
[17:50:34] <Mire> me 2. any machine tool can mill it's own table. linux boxes can mill their own fs.
[17:50:36] <Valen> torque wrench perhaps
[17:50:43] <Valen> lol
[17:50:44] <Phil31> old schol method ;)
[17:51:01] <Valen> old school is string and a bucket of bolts ;->
[17:51:11] <Valen> thats how we test our motors
[17:51:15] <anonimasu> hm..
[17:51:24] <anonimasu> or you can do the math for acceleration and cutting forces and stuff
[17:51:55] <archivist> maths!! we are engineers, we have bukkets
[17:52:21] <Phil31> lol ! ok thanks guys it's all for today !... have a nice day, see you soon
[17:52:50] <Valen> there is always taking a wild guess and doubling it
[17:53:23] <archivist> or just fix that pulley back on its shaft
[17:53:26] <Phil31> valen : yes but but from how much start to double !..?
[17:53:39] <Phil31> archivist : sure i will do tonight ;)
[17:53:53] <Valen> My reason for asking wrt wire was which wire, something that will take the repeated bending without snapping
[17:54:13] <archivist> are, better question!
[17:54:17] <Phil31> bye bye
[17:54:21] <archivist> ah even
[17:54:31] <archivist> Phil31, lurk and learn
[17:54:39] <Phil31> ;)
[17:54:54] <Valen> I was also hoping to find something shielded to try and contain the noise
[17:55:14] <archivist> Valen, had experience of the fail modes during printer making career
[17:55:21] <Valen> but http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/diyMains/ is 8$ a foot
[17:55:29] <Valen> so any tips?
[17:55:43] <Valen> Or just use cheap crap and replace it often
[17:55:54] <archivist> sod belden and audio snake oil
[17:56:24] <archivist> force it bend radius to be large
[17:56:25] <Valen> oh i don't give a crap about all that, I was mainly looking for a shielded power cable, oddly enough people don't seem to see the need for such a beast
[17:56:28] <archivist> its
[17:56:55] <Valen> I'm thinking I will just use standard mains extension cord atm
[17:57:03] <Valen> dirt cheap and pretty bendy
[17:57:09] <Valen> if it fails i'll just replace it
[17:57:14] <archivist> the container can both deal with screening and bend radius
[17:57:17] <anonimasu> search for miltronic..
[17:57:28] <anonimasu> if you can find them they have that kind of stuff
[17:57:31] <Valen> container?
[17:57:50] <archivist> that spiral stuff
[17:58:01] <anonimasu> oh.. shielded flexible power cables
[17:58:05] <archivist> flexible conduit
[17:58:22] <Valen> I wasn't going to bother
[17:58:23] <anonimasu> everyplace for automation sells that
[17:58:33] <Valen> I was hoping to get it all in one cable
[17:58:58] <archivist> its al about the bend radius for life though
[17:59:21] <Valen> yeah I hear you
[17:59:33] <Valen> I might look at those fancy cable trays
[17:59:47] <archivist> IDC ribbon lasted 20 minutes, the correct flat flexy lasted forever
[18:00:19] <Valen> that flexible pcb stuff?
[18:00:28] <archivist> get the radius right and you can use cheaper cable
[18:00:43] <archivist> yes was gore cable
[18:01:26] <archivist> because its thin the radius is smaller, it lasts longer
[18:02:28] <archivist> and in the case of gore they are careful with the cover to get the copper in the middle
[18:03:18] <Valen> http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4682022
[18:03:22] <Valen> something like that?
[18:03:52] <Valen> see any problem with household extension cord for the mean time?
[18:04:05] <archivist> that will hate flexing too much, will need a large radius
[18:04:06] <Valen> (running 40v in a 240v extension cord)
[18:04:25] <Valen> I'm thinking we'll just drop it to the floor
[18:04:38] <Valen> or near to it
[18:04:46] <Valen> so it'll mostly be hanging
[18:05:52] <archivist> allow it to come to its own shape, may be ok but that is really not designed for flexing
[18:06:16] <Valen> well they are somewhat i mean it bends a fair bit when i'm doing the vaccuming lol
[18:06:28] <Valen> and thats with a fair whack of current flowing to boot lol
[18:07:08] <archivist> the armour should help with that type
[18:07:37] <archivist> simply too stiff for tight bends
[18:08:02] <archivist> joining is is always a fight
[18:08:51] <anonimasu> yeah, indeed
[18:09:12] <archivist> getting the armour well earthed in the glands is key to making it stiff near the joints
[18:09:14] <anonimasu> the industrial way of joining is to fix them at the end and then do whatever you need with the rest
[18:09:29] <anonimasu> like for inside the cable chains
[18:10:19] <Valen> I think I'll just go with hacking up an extension cord until the design is somewhat more stable
[18:10:29] <anonimasu> btw..
[18:10:30] <Valen> then I'll put the good stuff in
[18:10:43] <anonimasu> lapp is a brand of wiring you should look for
[18:10:52] <anonimasu> actually "lapp usa"
[18:11:38] <Valen> know anywhere that sells slip on cable braid in steel?
[18:11:51] <anonimasu> dont go there.
[18:11:57] <anonimasu> if you have anything moving
[18:12:32] <anonimasu> http://www.olflex.com/index.htm
[18:12:32] <Valen> I was planning on using it as a shield to my uberdodgy cables
[18:12:42] <anonimasu> it eats right through the cables
[18:12:43] <Valen> any paticular reason not to?
[18:12:46] <Valen> ahh
[18:12:48] <anonimasu> very very fast
[18:12:51] <Valen> with the sucking there
[18:13:09] <anonimasu> check that site :)
[18:13:12] <Valen> bugger it all i'll just make my own damn cables ;->
[18:13:17] <anonimasu> but they arent $free, but they are good
[18:13:26] <anonimasu> we use them for canbus and stuff at work and power
[18:15:10] <anonimasu> :)
[18:15:39] <anonimasu> if you need a meter it costs about 10 eur or so..
[18:16:36] <Valen> http://www.lappusa.com/Spec_Template.asp?nGroupID=2035 is what i need i think
[18:16:57] <Valen> 0026249
[18:17:07] <Valen> oh well well past my bed time
[18:17:09] <Valen> thanks guys
[18:50:36] <skunkworks_> Dave911: printer port rigid tapping -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C740zS9R9kk
[18:51:57] <cradek> wow 2.3 is better at that :-)
[18:52:19] <cradek> but I don't recommend an albrect drill chuck for tapping - use one with a key
[18:54:57] <Dave911> Thanks for the video..... :-)
[18:55:18] <Dave911> Is there a block or line limit on the length of a Gcode file in EMC2 ??
[18:55:30] <cradek> no practical limit
[18:56:19] <Dave911> My PC locked up solid in the middle of a long run - the Gcode file is 5 megs long. The line where it stuck is in the middle of a bunch of very simple G1 moves.
[18:56:23] <skunkworks_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
[18:56:31] <Dave911> It could be hardware related
[18:59:49] <Dave911> Thanks for the link...
[19:00:34] <Dave911> I'll try running the file again, this may not be repeatable plus I was brushing up on the PC as it ran
[19:05:31] <pjm> hehh yeah a drill chuck is a bad idea for tapping bigtime
[19:14:29] <cradek> I use a keyed chuck all the time
[19:14:40] <cradek> collets would be better but the chuck is fine
[19:14:58] <archivist> we have a new keyless here and it seems amazing
[19:15:02] <cradek> but using an albrecht in reverse is bad - I can't believe it works for him
[19:15:18] <cradek> archivist: aren't they slick? I really like mine.
[19:15:35] <archivist> we have it on a drill press
[19:15:54] <archivist> never seen it slip yet
[19:16:02] <Mire> reverse is bad for an Albrecht chuck? or switching directions?
[19:16:15] <pjm> yeah the albrecht was only used for a quick test, with M3 taps, and even with the fast fwd/stop/reverse i never saw it come loose
[19:16:15] <cradek> reverse
[19:16:16] <archivist> old key chucks just dont grip
[19:16:28] <cradek> they will loosen
[19:16:50] <pjm> i have a set of collets for future use now
[19:17:24] <archivist> Im setting up with ER16 colletts as well
[19:17:35] <cradek> archivist: yep they don't slip, and you can open and close them with one hand and no key - except for the reversing thing they're unbeatable
[19:18:00] <cradek> I bet they eventually pay for themselves by not ruining drills :-)
[19:18:26] <archivist> the one on my battery drill does slip
[19:18:50] <archivist> but is uber cheap sh
[19:22:31] <Mire> cradek: this Mesa 5i20 is reprogrammable. did you have to reprogram it or does a factory configuration suffice?
[19:25:17] <cradek> part of what the EMC driver does to initialize the card is program it with the appropriate firmware
[19:31:02] <numen> hi
[19:32:54] <micges> hi
[20:06:10] <mikegg> gmail = broken ?
[20:06:18] <archivist> yup
[20:06:20] <archivist> http://www.google.com/appsstatus#rm=1&di=1&hl=en
[20:06:29] <mikegg> ack
[20:07:01] <mikegg> is it just web-based or is IMAP down as well?
[20:07:31] <archivist> someone in another chan got an imap mail
[20:23:22] <ntosme2> imap definitely is working
[20:23:57] <ntosme2> oops, I meant pop
[20:24:07] <ntosme2> but imap should be working
[20:25:55] <mikegg> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_comp.html
[20:26:35] <mikegg> ...the example for sincos. If I did that right, what should I look for in hal configuration
[20:26:39] <mikegg> ?
[20:28:06] <mikegg> seems like a pin ought to show up. or is it a function that I have to call
[21:30:26] <jepler> mikegg: after you 'comp --install' it, you would add a loadrt line to your hal files to actually use it.
[21:30:35] <jepler> 'loadrt sincos count=1' or whatever
[21:30:56] <jepler> then you'd see pins like sincos.0.theta and so on in halcmd show
[21:31:15] <mikegg> cool. thank!
[21:31:54] <mikegg> just realized I never did an apt-get emc-dev
[21:32:03] <mikegg> so just getting warmed up with comp
[21:36:22] <PasstScho> hi
[21:36:48] <mikegg> ahahh, that did it
[21:37:03] <mikegg> thanks again jepler
[21:38:23] <PasstScho> i have a question about the rs232 port... i'd like to use one rs232 port with classicladder & modbus - is it possible to use the rs232-pins not used by classicladder/modbus with serport?
[21:39:03] <PasstScho> i'd like to use 3 pins of a rs232 port for modbus and 2 others for a jog wheel
[21:41:51] <jepler> I believe that you cannot use serport when linux is using the port as a regular serial port
[21:42:18] <jepler> even if you could I suspect it would not work properly for output pins, as linux and emc would take turns overwriting each others' desired output values
[21:42:32] <jepler> bbl
[21:43:16] <PasstScho> it would have been a quite beautiful solution for a complete jog-wheel if buttons and wheel could be connected to one serport :)
[21:44:24] <ilya> What wrong am I do with http://ilya12345123.narod.ru/example1.ngc ?? Why couldn't I assign few subsequent paths for roughing? This code is for lathe.
[23:01:47] <ilya> Why does "o101 repeat [5] / G91 / G0 x-1. / G90 / g92 x0. / o100 call / o101 endrepeat" cause huge displacements at "g0 x-1." command
[23:02:42] <ilya> How else can I move coord.system 5 times and set g92 value before I call for o100 ??