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Valen1 is now known as Valen
machined swarf http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/djcpd/PD/2009/2009_08_13/verge/P1010320.JPG
wow they are damn small parts, what are they for?
one needed the reast are one original and ....practice
at that scale one needs to perfect the process
or nery snuff
ah btw, i dont spose u know where i can get some of these rubber bellow type things that u could use for a swarf guard over slideways etc
there is a one off maker in the uk
I need them as well, have brochure
i thought about getting some of that accordian type rubber stuff and making it fit ;-)
they fold it to order
ah right interesting
now you want me to remember where my copy of the brochure is
hahh well perhaps next time u see it, ping me here
my machine doesnt have guards at the moment, but i want to fit them before the end of the year
somebody has a how to out ther on how to make propper bellows type stuff
out of plastic type material
heat and one of two possible folds
ahh ok thanks Valen i'll have a google on making it
The one I saw the guy did it by scoring and folding
camera bellows have the same fold
they used a patent somebody did on "the optimal bellows folding pattern" or somesuch
somebody did a whole bunch of maths to prove this paticular one was the "best"
guy even had a (windows) template generator for it
and oddly the older fold for cameras is used in machine tool
[10:50:06] <Valen> http://www.franksworkshop.com.au/CNC/Bellows/Bellows.htm
this is the one
ah thanks !
clear is so funky for it ;->
when I looked at the model engineer show in Harogate, costs were too high and sheet sizes seemed too small
Is somebody there who knows his way around axis ?
ask the real question
I am trying to convert a machine with multiple spindles in this one machine and this breaks the live plotter preview
some i am trying to surpress a g0 move from showing
in the g-code
everything between hide and show won't be displayed
but the comment (AXIS,hide) or (AXIS,show) do not help, because the position is still updated
it's not updated by AXIS
yes, it does not get displayed, but the position still get's updated
the position is updated by emc2
are you aware of some way that i can change the current behaviour so that this display does not show the position change ?
can you describe what the g0 does?
this i quite some old machine, it has 5 spindles with different tools in each one. All tools are used, there is no tool changer. The offset from one tool/spindle to the next is 100mm. Of course this setup looks horrible on the live plotter
so i am trying to surpress the display of the g0 moves that move from one tool to the next
Alex ? Are you still there ?
maximilian_h: sorry, war grade nicht am PC ;)
How come you speak German ?
* alex_joni learned it ;)
Is it work the effort ? We seem to all speak English well enough ;)
I'm not sure you can do that
I was afraid you'd say that :(
keep the G0 from not beeing displayed/updated
but there are other things you can do
how is the G0 done?
only in one direction?
what ? I am grateful for any ideas
you could make the toolchange apply the offset to the current position
this would be done only in HAL, as a hack
when you select tool 2, it will add an offset to the current Z position (both comand and feedback, so emc2 still thinks it's in the same spot)
the offset won't help ( I think ) i already tried using the different coordinate systems G54, G55 etc
but the stepgen that actually drives the motor will be moved by the offset
not an offset in g-code
say you have the current Z position at 100
for Tool 3 you need 200
emc2 thinks it's at 100, but you add 100mm in HAL before the stepgen
i only need the change in x and y ? The z is this machine is just tool on/off
X & Y then
using servos, not stepgen
so how do i configure that ?
first you need to read and get acustomed to HAL
but basicly it works like this
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-08-13.txt
(you can reread it later this way ;)
the output from emc2 comes from the motion controller
axis.*.motor-pos-cmd (or similar)
that goes to PID
from there to your servo
yes, ok until here
from your encoder it comes back to your hardware for counting
Iok on that
and it gets scaled, and linked to axis.*.motor-pos-fb
ok, i do have it like this in my hal config
you need to add an component between axis.*.motor-pos-cmd and pid
sum2 or something like that
so you can add the offset you like
if you add 0, then it sits at the position emc2 thinks
if you add an non-zero offset, the motor should move to emc2 + offset
but you need to add the same offset for the feedback
(else emc2 sees the motor is not where it should be)
yes, or the pid would go nuts
gotta run.. hopefully someone else will pick up from here
you';ll need a mux, which you use based on the selected tool
and some more HAL conenctions based on tool-prepare and tool-change
thanks, i'll try your idea immediately
tool-change to select the mux (which outputs the offsets) which get added to the position, and substracted from feedback
if you only do it like this you'll have a jump in position
and PID will move at max vel/acc
maybe you want an additional limit2,3 component after the mux to limit the velocity needed
now I'm really gone
thanks a lot
for offseting position you want to use component offset
is this is a comp component ?
wait let me have a look at its doc
it offsets command and feedback position at once
Do you happen to have an example ?
could you please share it with me or give me a pointer as where to look ?
[12:41:47] <micges_work> http://www.pastebin.ca/1527969
An then i could set offset.0.offset from your example with halcmd in a custom M command
thanks a 1000 times ! :) I'll try that out immediately.
you can also alias the pin name instead of using a signal
alias offset.0.offset offsetX
then you use setp instead of sets
Oh good, i was not aware of having the feature to alias in hal
it's relatively new
then again, it could go away, but signals will always remain :)
If it works now that i am having a productive day
ok bye. And thanks again
this is a neat idea.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jGBE-Xcg4&feature=channel
seems like a simple matter of kins ;)
Valen1 is now known as Valen
just made my first EMC2 cuts!
what machine u using, a conversion or something home made?
home made. well, company made I should say
ah cool none the less
u should write it up and put it on the wiki to give inspiration to others!
I would love to post some video/pics
but the fact that we are developing a machine tool is still kind of sensitive
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
hi Jeff, see response in devel
[16:15:26] <mikegg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSTX2Kqkw8
here's a quick one from my phone
short but sweet
that spindle is bitchin
Ive only seen 60k spindles hissing
* skunkworks_ thinks about milling circuit boards at 100ipm :)
Valen1 is now known as Valen
we are getting closer to first motion
probably in a week or two
Which file in the source contains definitions of the kinematics? I just want to be more friendly with the program.
good_kid: trivkins.c and others in src/emc/kinematics
thanks. I'm actually good at theoretical mechanics and in kinematics (because of the university).
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
need to restart
good evening.I have install the live cd 8.04 and emc2 on dell pc with dual celeron at 2ghz. i have problem with rtai.The message when emc2 start is rtai exceted time.For clear the problem i have upper time base at 150000. i use the servo axis on mesa card. this time is good for servo?
motioncontrol: 150,000 ns is a very short time for the servo thread, i think the current default is 1,000,000 ns (1 ms)
arg. how do I tie M03/M05 to hm2_5i20.0.gpio.047.out ?
it's not "net motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i20.0.gpio.047.out
mikegg: is hm2_5i20.0.gpio.047.is_output true?
isnt the first argument to "net" the name of the signal? so shouldnt it be something like "net spindle-is-on motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i20.0.gpio.047.out"
[18:20:38] <BJT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html
BJT-Work: i misread your nick at a glance and thought it said Bjork ;-)
I hope BJT-Work can sing better than the other one
I can't carry a tune in a bucket
but I think I've been called a jork before :)
anyone know of a nice site of software thatll help you figure out speed and proper feed for a certain material and tool?
frallzor, titex used to do a very nice free bit of software, put in cutter type material or just material and it would tell u cutter type to use, feed rpm etc etc dont know if they still do one
want to guess on 300mm/min, acrylic and 6mm endmill? =)
what speed to use?
on the spindle that is
u cuting bits out of a sheet? or other
10mm sheet im cutting out from
so yes, bits from a sheet
sorry had to pop out side, try few thos 2500rpm high feed 400mm or higher, realy depends on kinda of acrylic, cutter (carbide, HSS) machine too, plastic wanna tend to keep rpm low, feedup abit to stop it sticking and melting
played with my new kress too, those low 10000rpm was no good :P
[20:06:30] <frallzor> http://www.badog.biz/catalog/images/1050.jpg
didt fancy trying one of them chinise spindles u see on ebay then, 22krpm with VFD
need help on changing my x axis direction
stepper motor system?
ok so u can just invert the 'direction' pin
in emc2 ?
yeah in the hal
so for my setup for example i have;
the wizard works nice too =)
setp parport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
net zdir => parport.0.pin-07-out
you can do it from wizard ?
the dir yes
simple invert-box you check =)
Sweet, Thank you :)
just load the right config and you are all set
yeah, i have a x2 mill and it outputs a mirror image
Guest993 the other alternative is to swap the phases of the stepper motor around
and i got to change X axis :)
so just to ask how/ you wire bi-polor would i change A# and A
well its easy in either h/w or software
just to know
u get the 2 A wires and swap them with the 2 B wires
so like A# = B# and A = B ?
just don't want to burn anything out :)
Guest993 yep that is right wiht the wiring
Thank you very much sir :)
just swap over the AA and BB
emc2 is the Bomb :)
worth just metering out each coil and clearly marking the wires before u mod anything
or u can just invert the pin in the hal file
I will do in the hal / stepconfig
ah yes i'm assuming he has tweaked the config!
if u made your config with stepconfig and have not manually edited the resulting files, u can do the tweaks with stepconf
i saw just didn't know i inverted all
and it did the last night
did not know :(
i do now :)
what kind of cnc do you run (pjm)
well it really is worth getting to grips with emc2, it is absolutly wicked
this is my machine http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
yeah i love the layout
being able to home brew a 5axis is nice
its a home built thing that i generally use to make microwave radio parts
very nice i have a g540 4axis
x2 mill cnc fusion conversion
that is nice
well yeah its not bad, i'm still fiddling with the setup of it, probably gonna upgrade the controller with a mesa 7i43 card
which will finally be able to read my spindle encoder when running at 6K rpm ++
is that a homebrew mesa card ?
no its an off the shelf card
[21:49:52] <pjm> http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html
7i43 is parport attach and 5i20 is pci
how much hp from that motor ??
its a 240vac 3phase
and has a variable frequency drive for speed control
i see that very nice
it was very cheap!
what base is that you x2 is on (pjm) ?
or custom ?
custom made out of whatever i could find around ;-)
and are those servos ?
no plain old steppers
pjm: have you described it anywhere on the www?
[21:53:11] <Guest993> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
Guest993: Oh, eah (digly-digly!!!)
did you mean Quagmire? =)
brb changing screenname to wireballz
frallzor: actually, yes
(pjm) that a sweet setup
thanks, it is a nice machine to use too
can you mill stainless with it ?
just asking because it has some meat to it :)
pjm: What feed rate would you program for drilling/milling if you would?
yeah its not too bad in terms of strength
(pjm) what time is it over there where you live ?
jerk depends on material, drill size etc
its 22:58 local here
pjm: stainless steel, 3 mm drill, 1 mm thick metal sheet?
I am in CA
pjm: Western Siberia, 5:00 a.m.
wow here pst 2:59PM
Wireballz: tomorrow, at 5:00 a.m. I will typing to you
what is the temp over there
the temp is about 18C currently outside
it's summer, warm temperature, sun/rain, wet soil
it is summer after all ;-)
like 100F here
pjm: oh yeah!
haha, `wget -r -c http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=122'
no, doesn't work for only one webpage...
this was fun, from #ubuntu-offtopic, www.ikanobori.jp/garbage/likelog.txt -- I sometimes read it and getting a nice mood
i've not really tried stainless so far, mostly steel, ally and plastics
oh and some bits of wood and PCB's
printed circut boards
jerk is now known as good_kid
hmm I just played with dormer product selector to find out speeds for plexi milling, does 3000rpm spindlespeed and feedrate 419mm/min with a 6mm tool seems right when milling plexi?
it's soft and very viscous, Mythbusters use plexi as a bulletproof
if you use too much rpm it will melt and gum an plug the flutes turning it into an 8mm plastic dowel pin wich goes click VERY soon after.
fyi Mythbusters use Lexan as bulletproof
and Lexan Is b/proof
if you have enogh feedrate it wont do bad afaik
no... the sfm... melts it instead of cutting it.. i had a 60 K spindle and changed to the reg spindle to make good parts...
dmes1: how about feed rates for thick rubber? The faster the better?
i drilled .029" holes in nickle-bronze last week at 1800 rpm and 1.6 ipm.... we tried 5 colid carbide tools @ 8000 and didnt get 1 hole
what is `ipm'?
well I assume you need more feedrate than allmost all machined can do =)
rubber... freeze it the night before ... do the set up and in the am go fast.. get it while its frozen
inches per minute
dmes1: nice advice.
or if you have access to liquid nitrogen.. dip in there for a while
I used to do everything by hand. These days, have a time and read some books. It seems they have nothing useful. Scientific data and maths, applied to routine tasks.
right gn all, getting late here
dmes1: no, this is not needed at all.
I attended the shool of hard knocks... lessons learned are never forgoten
Night (pjm) thanks again :)
"Scientific data and maths, applied to routine tasks".
I calculate that stuff in school, for milling and lathe, its useful.
frallzor: which formulae do you use?
I dont have those in my head, I use a book called Karlebo
the engineers bible
frallzor: I also have few `bibles' from few gods, on Russian.
frallzor: i think those numbers for frames made of ingot steel are too useless for relatively soft frames of many machines
*too big = useless
I have no idea what you are talking about
its all about cutting speed for a particular material... then you apply some not-so-common sense about the rigidity af your tooling and set up to guess-timate an appropriate feed.
I used dormers software to guess-timate
in feed per tooth
I trust it =)
frallzor: i have few books for mechanical engineering, `engineering bibles', of different authors. They contain formulae, where the speed of the cut is derived from the power of the corresponding machine's motor. I want to use the smallest values from there.
iscar...kenna....seco... they all have recommended speeds and feeds... but trust ME they are rarely optimized... i can tell how a cutter is cutting by the hair on the back of my neck
yes.. you want the lowest cutting speed the material can be effectively cut on your machine
wait a minute
unfortunatly all our parts go thru nital etch... so too fast and it burned... they find
dmes1: then, I will advance in speed
are you tearing material away??
dmes1: no, i will advance towards those tables' values
give me an example for 4140 steel...
or russian equivilant... Ti 5553??
dmes1: which SigmaB does the 4140 steel have?
not off the top of my head.. but try 300M @ 200 ksi
kips per square inch 1 kip=1000 pounds /2.2= kg
where are you located good_kid
here: Western Siberia, a chair
a chair in the Western Siberia
that one behind the computer
>600 MPa of Sigma_t steel, for 6 mm drill -- .2 .15 and .1
hmmm had a job offer in north eastern Siberia last summer....was too long away from the family... 2 yr installation of 4-6 machines
<60 MPa of Sigma_t steel, for 6 mm drill -- .2 .15 and .1
same but for a cast iron with sigma_t<160 MPa -- .3 .15 .1
sounds about correct for feed what surface speed is the 6mm drill spinning
yes 2 years
it's another table, mm/revolution ~ m/min -- for Steel, with multiplying coefficients
these are LARGE profilers from Cincinatti milicron... the place thats building your SJ100 wide body... I make the landing gear.. by the way. ;)
for .2 V=28,33,38,35,37 m/min
dont look off the scale at all
any info on Ti 5553???
What is SJ100. And if it's my, where the hell are my money, dividents, or at least something? Amn't I the general director, by the way?!!
Ti 5553? It's a reference book for young mechanical engineer from Springfield, state Alabama. (In translation to English :)
No, this book has no such alloy.
material titanium 5553 is an alloy developed in Russia
dmes1: it's a
it's a book from the year-1973
this is a newly certifed-in-the-west alloy that was developed and is in abundance in northern Russia i hear
there is a formula, N=F(V), and that's all.
dmes1: there're many deposit fields at the North Siberia.
are they all close to the surface to make mining easy??
This Ti alloy is probably special in a particular way: certain known advantages + less amount of disadvantages.
yes it is a full alpha alloy if i recall
excellent stress/strain characteristics and awesome stress corrosion
I don't really remember the Titan's properties. It's light-weight while providing the **same** uh... forgot the word
whats the highest factor on your surface speed table.. sorry if you lost the page already.. ;)
dmes1: but... it's only good in phisycal-as-for-aerocosmonautics meaning. In mechanics, it's just very lightweigh, like an aluminum, but endures long-term pulcing loads as the steel
dmes1: it's a scanned book, and linux ubuntu. it always opens up the same page
dmes1: what? I meant the properties in comparison with other alloys
The cast material from the fluidity molds was
HIP’ed, and selected pieces were chemically
itanium alloy 5553 (Ti-5Al-5V-5Mo-3Cr)
for 0.05 mm/rev for 2 mm drill made of a cutting steel with coolant = 46 m/min
sound good to me
hihs speed steel driil
dmes1: i just wanted to say, one book about materials i read before said Ti is good when you need to reduce weight. Alloys colour up advantages while reducing faults
for .08 mm/rev and 2 mm drill -- 32 m/min, for .10 mm/rev and 2-4-6 mm drills -- 26, 42, and 49 m/min
still works for me..
seems you have a machinist bible there too...
Cr-Ni steel reduces this values by multiplying them to .75 for 55 MPa for sigma_t, .57 for .57, .45 for 95, and .40 for 105 MPa
dmes1: it's "Dnilevsky2.djvu" at "www.listlib.narod.ru", page 57, or just page 484
we work at stuff over 200 MPa at my work... after heat treat....
but my russian isnt soo good.. vitaly is not working with me any more.... he once said i would have made a good russian.. ;)
how many letters in your alphabet??
[23:27:37] <good_kid> http://www.listlib.narod.ru/mashstroy/aDanilevski.htm
man.. we have 26... but you look like you have some cool ones... LOL
dmes1: Sigma_t = temporary load. it's like 60 kg/mm2 = 600 N/(10E-6) = 600 MPa, sorry for wrong numbers
kg per square millimeter, old book
im bilingual... i know metric too and do the math in my head if need be
dmes1: i sometimes forget about the necessary maths
200 MPa = 20 kg/mm2
metric is the easy one.... the bna system is where stuff nees memory
So, ok those coefficients modify the value from 0.4 up to 1.2
dmes1: like "what's bigger, 7/8 or 5/6?"
i was a physics junkie thru high school... you never forget what you use or love
-- "my !@#$% is begger!"
d,ei know maths and theoretical mechanics
how old are ya??
ok challenge?? you up to it??
I'm usually a good_kid, but sometimes I'm a jerk.
dmes1: what do you mean?
im an ass-half all the time because my twin brother would need to be here so i could be an ass-whole...
can you write the equations to find the center of rotation of a point.. and code it to a macro
I tell people on IRC i go in the shower.
ahhh thats good for athletes foot... no sweat
no programming. I only solved those momentary centers of the speed and acceleretion
with a book.
you can use all the books you need .. i didi
I meant I'm solving wwith a book, usually.
listlib.narod.ru ~ 4.5 Gb, I have copied that website once.
"center of the masses" for segments and simple figures, we called this "graphical calculations works", 5 or more a semester
it must be algebraic... not guestimated.
so, by the way, page 484 says those numbers for V are multiplied further for duraluminum = 2.5, for bronze = 0.75, for "latun'" (Cu+? alloy)= 3.5
dmes1: I can download the textbook.
dmes1: it's something like... for i=1 to i=n Epsilon = (sum of V_i * r_i)/(V_i*r_I + ... + V_n*r_n)
I would take the book and see if it's relly needed.
r is a vector
We did it for plane figures.
latun is an alloy of Cu and... Ah, I should have known!!!
brb, yeah... awfull! formulas...
Or rather r= for i=1 to i=n Epsilon = (sum of V_i * r_i)/(V_i + ... + V_n)
Cu+ about 40 % of Zn = Latun'
V (m/min) =values * K2 * K1
i've had my mother transcribe math from latin scripts... just so i could see if it it worked.... it's never easy but maths are a labor of love... you iether love them or hate them. I hated math till i was 18 and realized ITS ALL MATH.... everything can be broken down to an equation.. if you think in the simplest components
hell i have the math for my EX leaving... and had i done it 10 years ago.. i'd be much further ahead