#emc | Logs for 2009-08-05

[01:27:05] <tom3p> the config max5-triv.ini specifically says "does not provide proper multi-axis behavior.", does max5-kins.ini do so?
[03:13:52] <danpat> anyone got any advice on getting a gecko driver vs some other? I'm a bit budget conscious, so I'm looking for cheap+good. I've been using a MC433 controller from http://www.soc-machines.com/, but it is very fiddly to get the output current set right and I've burned out the mosfets driving the motors.
[03:14:00] <danpat> I'm hoping to get something a little more robust
[03:15:16] <SWPadnos> low budget like $40/axis or like $100/axis?
[03:15:33] <SWPadnos> and how much is added quality (robustness) worth?
[03:16:10] <danpat> well, $300 USD for the G540 is pushing it, I'd prefer something cheaper
[03:16:45] <Jymmm> danpat: Well, how much are you spending in asprin and tequilia?
[03:17:27] <SWPadnos> personally I'd say the G540 is the best thing out there for price/performance, but I don't use one every day
[03:17:33] <danpat> jymmm: not much yet, but I suspect it's about to start. Everything was working swimmingly until I ran test job that took 15 minutes to complete. That was too much for the MC433 board.
[03:18:03] <Jymmm> danpat: What are you using it on?
[03:18:53] <danpat> I've built a 3-axis router for woodwork, gantry style using 125oz NEMA23 steppers
[03:19:16] <Jymmm> danpat: Get the G540, you won't regret it.
[03:19:52] <danpat> I get the feeling that this is going to be one of those contiunous-upgrade projects :-P
[03:19:55] <cradek> for wood you need to move fast
[03:20:25] <cradek> having a powerful driver may be very important for your application
[03:20:26] <Jymmm> danpat: The thing is, with the G540, you can always use it on another project if you "upgrade" so to speak.
[03:20:35] <danpat> cradek: why?
[03:20:47] <cradek> for metal work, it's about the speed of rapids - who cares - but for you, you need to cut fast
[03:21:03] <cradek> so you don't burn the work and dull your router bits
[03:21:19] <danpat> ah. well, no wood cuts yet, just foam
[03:21:21] <cradek> run your router along a piece of work and note how fast you naturally know to move it
[03:21:41] <cradek> oh ok, you said woodwork
[03:21:46] <danpat> yes, wood eventually
[03:22:00] <Jymmm> danpat: Teh G540 also has midband compensation, optically isolated, and has a built in breakout board.
[03:22:12] <danpat> jymmm: what's midband compensation?
[03:22:28] <Jymmm> danpat: Helps prevent the steppers from stalling
[03:22:35] <cradek> I bet you move a router 1-2 inches a second (60-120 ipm)
[03:22:57] <cradek> that's pretty darn fast for many stepper machines
[03:23:00] <SWPadnos> at least
[03:23:12] <SWPadnos> in foam it should be even faster I bet
[03:23:16] <cradek> yes
[03:23:19] <Jymmm> Much faster
[03:23:28] <SWPadnos> like 400 IPM or something
[03:23:44] <danpat> cradek: my rig needs a bit of rigidity work before I can more it too fast. unfortunately, I'm using cheapo threaded rod from Home Hardware and the whole thing shakes violently at certain resonant motor speeds (most of them fast)
[03:24:14] <Jymmm> That MC433 is a UNIPLOAR driver
[03:24:21] <danpat> yes
[03:24:27] <cradek> yeah that's not ideal
[03:24:39] <cradek> but I'm surprised that it seems to be a chopper
[03:24:40] <danpat> the motors I have are 6 wire, I'd wire them in bipolar mode with the G540
[03:24:42] <Jymmm> Only has full and half stepping - ewww
[03:25:14] <Jymmm> I know where his vibration is coming from =)
[03:26:10] <Jymmm> danpat: G540 has 10 microstepping
[03:26:30] <danpat> the major vibration is not the motors, it's the slightly bent threaded rods bouncing around in the loosely mounted skateboard bearings :-P
[03:27:00] <danpat> until this point, the whole rig has cost about $200 to build, so I suppose it's about time I sunk some decent change into it
[03:27:09] <SWPadnos> ugh. must reboot
[03:27:10] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[09:27:34] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[15:24:13] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[15:55:14] <frallzor> anyone in here that has bought something from cnc-plus.de? =)
[16:27:39] <geo01005> hmm, I'm wondering why the fonts in pyvcp don't look the best.
[16:28:01] <geo01005> no anti aliasing?
[16:29:23] <cradek> it will improve in a couple years when we are using the newer tk that is on ubuntu 9+
[16:29:37] <cradek> AXIS etc looks a lot better
[16:30:08] <geo01005> so nothing to do about it without recompiling tk?
[16:31:04] <cradek> nope
[16:31:22] <cradek> well I bet some fonts are less bad than others - you could experiment
[16:31:51] <cradek> I think you want to get it to use a traditional X bitmap font
[16:34:18] <geo01005> Something like this? -*-Times-Bold-R-*--*-120-*-*-*-*-ISO8859-1
[16:36:56] <cradek> -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--20-200-75-75-c-100-iso8859-1
[16:37:04] <cradek> this is "10x20" which is a good old bitmap font
[16:37:29] <cradek> I found that listed in /usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi/misc/fonts.alias
[16:37:56] <cradek> (beware I don't know exactly how you specify a font in pyvcp)
[16:59:54] <GammaX> cradek, whats easier... using hal scope or a real scope... this is based on someone never using a scope ever..
[17:00:27] <cradek> as far as operating the knobs - if you know how to use one, the other will seem familiar
[17:01:11] <SWPadnos> a real scope can't show you HAL internal signals, and HALscope can't show you things that happen too fast (or anything analog, without special hardware)
[17:01:23] <SWPadnos> so they're for different things
[17:02:00] <cradek> true, I bet the "answer" to your question is "easier for what?" :-)
[17:02:21] <GammaX> tuning my machine lol Basicly pid..
[17:02:40] <GammaX> and adjusting the servo cards correctly as there older west amps I believe
[17:02:52] <GammaX> SWPadnos, I know I know.... wait till I get home! lol
[17:09:55] <Jymmm> Does anyone know if Denatured alcohol leaves a/any toxic residue once evaporated?
[17:11:48] <archivist> Jymmm, alcohol is used in very fine scraping because a small amout is left behind
[17:12:14] <Jymmm> archivist: Not alcohol, Denatured Alcohol
[17:13:19] <DaViruz> swedish denaturated alcohol "called red ethanol" leaves nothing toxic behind
[17:13:27] <DaViruz> however the denaturating agent is extremely foul tasting
[17:13:53] <Jymmm> Yeah, and depending on what it is, it can be toxic
[17:14:12] <Jymmm> or make you vomit
[17:14:46] <Jymmm> I'd really just like to find some Food Grade Ethanol, but can't find any place locally
[17:14:55] <DaViruz> which was my point, it's hard to know what denaturating agent is used in your particular blend :)
[17:15:14] <Jymmm> MSDS/CAS ftw!!!!
[17:15:19] <Jymmm> ;)
[17:15:21] <LawrenceG> everclear from Minnesota
[17:15:45] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: that would work, but lets try ozarks
[17:15:48] <LawrenceG> 95% ummmm gooood
[17:16:32] <LawrenceG> I just bought a bottle.... had to import it from Alberta as they dont sell it in BC
[17:16:32] <GammaX> SWPadnos, would you recomend doing this before or after messing with the machine? http://www.cmcsystems.com/techtips_westamp.html
[17:19:37] <Jymmm> Hey I found some... anyone have a 50,000 gallon tanker truck I could borrow to pick it up?
[17:20:03] <Jymmm> sorry, make that 28,500 gallons
[17:20:04] <LawrenceG> I'll take a few gallons if you deliver
[17:20:18] <Jymmm> But I need a locomotive for that
[17:20:38] <Jymmm> (I'm not kidding) http://www.bigriverresources.com/ethanol.php
[17:21:00] <LawrenceG> I better buy some coke shares... you are going to need a lot of mix!
[17:21:55] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: wth you talkin bout... this is to fill up the swimming pool!
[17:23:01] <DaViruz> you won't be needing any chlorine
[19:50:01] <jymm> Where is everybody? lately
[19:50:33] <skunkworks_> some people actually have a live. (I don't)
[19:50:40] <skunkworks_> life even
[19:50:51] <jymm> Well, I doubt that.
[19:52:04] <frallzor> back to work? =)
[19:56:53] <skunkworks_> what - that I don't have a life - or that other people do?
[19:56:58] <skunkworks_> ;)
[19:57:16] <jymm> That THEY have a life
[19:57:57] <frallzor> I am a proper yound lad, im still doing cnc! doing my gantrybuild
[19:57:58] <jymm> Damn, you're the second person in 24h to expect me mocking them
[19:59:06] <skunkworks_> 'you're macking me - arn't you?' Buzz Lightyear
[19:59:30] <skunkworks_> jeeze aren't
[20:23:16] <jepler> skunkworks_: macking?
[20:26:09] <jymm> jepler: smack talk
[20:27:24] <skunkworks_> boy - I have some problems.
[20:30:16] <Gamma-X> whos blog has them making a bus as an rv?
[20:32:22] <archivist> cradek ? http://geektrap.com/bill/01205761106
[20:36:12] <cradek> yeah?
[20:38:37] <archivist> see Gamma-X above
[20:39:22] <Gamma-X> cradek, you making a bus?
[20:39:51] <cradek> oh
[20:39:56] <cradek> I only read the line with my name in it
[20:39:57] <archivist> making thats pushing the boat out a bit far
[20:40:16] <cradek> not making - it's done
[20:41:46] <Gamma-X> i read ur blog while at work today
[20:41:57] <Gamma-X> the bus looks insanely awsome and well designed. Good job.
[20:42:08] <Gamma-X> drive it out to ny sometime and fix my emc rig haha
[20:42:25] <Gamma-X> i can supply an extension cord to the bus!
[20:43:28] <cradek> haha
[20:43:36] <cradek> it'd cost you a bit in diesel for that trip
[20:43:54] <Gamma-X> true!
[20:44:13] <Gamma-X> I gotta find someone in ny that knows what there doing with emc... I cant wait for SWPadnos lol
[20:44:13] <cradek> I lived in it for a week last emc fest - it was very pleasant
[20:44:28] <Gamma-X> looks like a hotel on wheels...
[20:44:38] <cradek> that's exactly what it is
[20:44:40] <Gamma-X> Wish I had that in highschool!
[20:45:05] <Gamma-X> Coulda nick named it the bang bus! haha
[20:49:12] <Gamma-X> Anyway! anyone know of a good benchtop multimeter... I would like something good for smt repair that I can install probe tweezers on.
[20:55:14] <sed__> is there a reason why EMC2 would give and error using I and J for radius cuts where EMC1 didnt?
[21:07:22] <jymm> cradek: THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! for using an instant hot water heater!
[21:12:43] <mikeggg> is there a scaling factor for the outputs on a m5i20 ?
[21:16:12] <mikeggg> the 5 VDC out on the drive enable is not enough to drive my relay
[21:24:07] <geo01005_home_> I don't think that you would want to drive a relay coil directly with a 5i20.
[21:25:55] <mikeggg> what should I drive with it?
[21:26:23] <seb_kuzminsky> mikeggg: drive a big power transistor that drives the relay
[21:27:17] <geo01005_home_> what are you driving with the relay?
[21:27:43] <mikeggg> my servo amps have a not-enabled pin. when you ground it, it disables the drive
[21:28:23] <mikeggg> bought some cheap mechanical relays thinking the 5v signal from a 7i33TA would switch the amp on and off
[21:29:27] <skunkworks_> make sure to use a snubbing diode also across the relay coil
[21:29:43] <mikeggg> not sure what that means
[21:29:58] <mikeggg> i know what a diode does...
[21:30:15] <geo01005_home_> the Back EMF from the coil could kill your mesa board.
[21:30:23] <mikeggg> okay
[21:30:26] <mikeggg> roger
[21:30:34] <jymm> cradek: What is this "Solid State Kooler" he talks about?
[21:31:01] <seb_kuzminsky> mikeggg: the hm2 firmware for the 5i20 has a not-enable output for the pwmgens
[21:31:11] <geo01005_home_> http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/relay.htm
[21:31:34] <seb_kuzminsky> are you trying to connect that to the not-enable input on your servo amp?
[21:32:24] <mikeggg> well, not sure i'm using the hm2 firmware
[21:33:01] <mikeggg> loadrt hal_m5i20 <- that is at the begining of my hal file
[21:33:06] <seb_kuzminsky> ah
[21:33:12] <seb_kuzminsky> no, that's not hostmot2
[21:33:15] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll shut up now
[21:33:24] <mikeggg> should I be using hm2?
[21:33:31] <mikeggg> not sure what the differences are
[21:34:30] <mikeggg> but yes, I am trying to connect the not-enable output of the 5i20 to my servo amps...somehow
[21:35:48] <seb_kuzminsky> do you know if the servo amp sources current when you ground its not-enable pin? if it's not too much, you might be able to just connect it to the 5i20 (assuming that not-enable in its high state is un-groundy enough to register on the servo amp)
[21:36:03] <seb_kuzminsky> (And yes, "un-groundy" is a word. I just made it up.)
[21:36:49] <SWPadnos> it was un-wordish before
[21:36:52] <mikeggg> no, I don't know
[21:38:02] <mikeggg> in any case, the signal ground that makes the not-enable pin work, is not the same as the case ground...
[21:38:06] <mikeggg> however that works
[21:38:47] <mikeggg> argh hot soldering iron is hot
[21:39:11] <jymm> mikeggg: and/or DUH!
[21:42:46] <geo01005_home_> if they don't have the same ground voltage then I would suggest using an optoisolator.
[21:43:22] <mikeggg> well, have a 7i37 on order that I think will do the trick
[21:45:05] <SWPadnos> mikeggg, you should use the hostmot2 driver. The older m5i20 driver will be removed at some point as it has been replaced by hostmot2
[21:46:14] <mikeggg> ok, cool.
[21:46:50] <mikeggg> I thought I should be using it, just wasn't sure why
[21:47:17] <geo01005_home_> it is more awesome :)
[21:47:37] <mikeggg> good, we are running low on awesomeness]\
[21:47:44] <jymm> SWPadnos: Have you seen the gecko lately? It has a ethernet iface now
[21:47:58] <SWPadnos> the G100 always has
[21:48:06] <SWPadnos> it's on the Rabbit module
[21:48:32] <jymm> SWPadnos: Ah, so when will that be incorporated into emc =)
[21:48:35] <geo01005_home_> if you want to use an optoisolator and don't want to make your own board sparkfun started selling these: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9118
[21:49:03] <SWPadnos> jymm, not before Rabbit decides to release open-source compilers, or GCC starts supporting the Rabbit CPU
[21:49:14] <jymm> SWPadnos: gotcha
[21:49:44] <SWPadnos> a few of us have them, I think I'm the only one with the development environment
[21:50:13] <SWPadnos> note that RTNet would also need to be supported, both in HAL and on the Rabbit
[21:50:26] <geo01005_home_> * geo01005_home_ remember looking over the logs for hours reading about rtnet.
[21:50:31] <jymm> SWPadnos: Well, not worth it if the dev kit isn't open source
[21:50:41] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:51:00] <SWPadnos> I think the compiler can be run under wine, but you can't download to the devices that way
[21:51:38] <jymm> oh joy
[22:04:34] <Gamma-X> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIfo_-d82Co
[22:12:33] <Gamma-X> great intro on oscilloscopes above
[23:18:40] <toastatwork> does anyone know how to solve a two-equation simultanious equation using linear algebra/a matrix instead of using substitution
[23:19:10] <toastatwork> oh, i think i figured out what i'm doing wrong
[23:31:47] <geo01005_home> figure it out?
[23:51:59] <Gamma-X> anyone recomend this to me? it closes in a few hours and I need to pass out http://cgi.ebay.com/Agilent-U1604A-Oscilloscope-MultiMeter-40-MHz-2-chs_W0QQitemZ270435523436QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef7369b6c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14