#emc | Logs for 2009-07-31

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[02:02:50] <Gamma-X> Hello all
[02:09:12] <Gamma-X> there a reason why a table would take off on a command and not stop till it hit limit or I hit e stop?
[02:09:48] <cradek> a servo system can easily run away if the feedback is not working
[02:10:20] <cradek> there are probably other reasons too
[02:10:27] <Gamma-X> feedback as in?
[02:10:40] <cradek> position feedback, such as the encoder
[02:11:12] <Gamma-X> I still have my linear scales hooked up! haha
[02:11:24] <cradek> what troubleshooting have you done?
[02:12:06] <Gamma-X> I did everything possible! haha im not near the machine right now, I just wanted to see if there is anything I can read up on so when I get back to the states A can work on it.
[02:12:50] <Gamma-X> or if I should just upgrade to sumtin like an ajax kit. Ive had this mill for over a year now and its just sitting there collecting rust...
[02:12:51] <cradek> if you had done everything possible you would know the cause :-)
[02:13:28] <Gamma-X> I wish I could pay someone to fix this haha. I just cant get it right!
[02:13:38] <cradek> where is it?
[02:13:45] <Gamma-X> Newyork...
[02:13:49] <cradek> if you're serious, you can surely find someone
[02:13:49] <Gamma-X> long island to be exact
[02:14:00] <Gamma-X> I wonder what the going rate is...
[02:14:39] <cradek> no idea in new york
[02:14:58] <Gamma-X> whats the best way of finding someone knowledgable on that?
[02:15:12] <cradek> ask on emc-users, probably
[02:15:45] <cradek> I think you should expect to pay for travel and lodging, and an hourly rate on top of that
[02:17:26] <Gamma-X> Thats fine
[02:17:27] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, if you're willing to spend the $2500+ on an Ajax kit, I think you could probably spend a little on some encoders
[02:17:49] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, Hey! Any of you old guys remember me? lol
[02:17:51] <SWPadnos> I don't recall exactly what your hardware is, but if I remember correctly, you're using the scale feedback only (for EMC anyway)
[02:17:53] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:17:55] <SWPadnos> :)
[02:18:00] <Gamma-X> haha
[02:18:10] <Gamma-X> nice to see you gents have some memory left!
[02:18:12] <SWPadnos> you're near the smokestacks of that big power plant on Long Island
[02:18:15] <cradek> with tachs and velocity mode amps?
[02:18:16] <Gamma-X> haha! just kidding
[02:18:26] <Gamma-X> cradek, yup
[02:18:36] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, that is correct! How you been?
[02:18:38] <cradek> seems like that ought to work fine
[02:18:40] <SWPadnos> OK, you?
[02:19:21] <Gamma-X> Not bad... Im over in iraq... Coming home to li for a 2 week vacation in september. Taking the internet girlfriend to providence RI one of the weekends.... Lifes interesting right now haha
[02:19:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:19:35] <SWPadnos> I bet
[02:19:43] <SWPadnos> good thing I'm too old for that
[02:19:57] <SWPadnos> (unless they suddenly need a lot of 45G, then I'm up a creek still)
[02:19:59] <Gamma-X> and you make a boat load of money 2 haha
[02:20:13] <Gamma-X> lol I doubt it...
[02:21:00] <cradek> bush2 quietly raised the max age limit for the draft...
[02:21:32] <SWPadnos> I'm a National Guard veteran, which means I'm in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) until I'm like 65
[02:21:34] <cradek> I think it's now 42
[02:21:51] <Gamma-X> damn SWPadnos ! haha
[02:22:01] <cradek> hell even I'm not that old yet :-)
[02:22:14] <skunkworks> scary
[02:22:15] <SWPadnos> which is funny, because when I was in basic training, they told us about how the evil terrible awful Russians could call you back until you were 55!
[02:22:36] <Gamma-X> U know I was thinkin about the encoders... just could never decide on some...
[02:22:37] <SWPadnos> (then later that day they told usthat the fine benevolent democratic US of A could do it until you're 65)
[02:24:53] <Gamma-X> how would you fit an encoder onto this? http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-Servo-motor-Drive-Anilam-Crusader-M-SEM_W0QQitemZ150361840768QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2302439c80&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[02:25:42] <cradek> if you have tachs and scales I think you may not need more encoders
[02:26:11] <Gamma-X> it doest output when I move the table manually. Once initiated it takes off.
[02:26:12] <SWPadnos> with the G&L, didn't we still have a velocity loop in EMC?
[02:26:23] <SWPadnos> hmmm.. no, that was dual position loops
[02:26:25] <cradek> we had two position loops
[02:26:46] <cradek> Gamma-X: sounds like you should troubleshoot :-)
[02:26:52] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:27:46] <Gamma-X> since the linear scales are so old would it be worth upgrading them?
[02:27:52] <SWPadnos> I'd mount the encoder in the end enclosure that's meant for it
[02:27:59] <cradek> what?
[02:28:11] <cradek> don't go madly and randomly replacing parts because they are old
[02:28:22] <cradek> when you have no clue what's even wrong
[02:28:35] <Gamma-X> I have bits and pieces in my head of what was wrong haha
[02:28:37] <cradek> use that cash to pay someone who can figure out what the deal is
[02:29:19] <Gamma-X> I could for the life of me not find any encoder end caps or encoders that were made to go on there.
[02:30:11] <SWPadnos> (I agree with cradek, but on the subject of encoders ...) my motors have tachs and encoders in the case - all the signals come out the single MIL circular connector
[02:30:27] <cradek> my mill is like that too
[02:30:41] <cradek> well one of them...
[02:30:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:30:49] <SWPadnos> 14-pin circular connectors?
[02:31:06] <SWPadnos> MS3100 series, pin pattern 24-7
[02:31:08] <SWPadnos> ?
[02:31:20] <cradek> it's round and has some pins...
[02:31:26] <SWPadnos> ok, that sounds similar ;)
[02:31:52] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:32:20] <SWPadnos> if you have the same ones as me, you can just barely make a 3/4" flexible liquid-tight conduit fit in the sealed backshell
[02:32:31] <SWPadnos> for servo hoses :)
[02:32:32] <Gamma-X> I believe I have mt30r4's
[02:32:59] <Gamma-X> sem mt30r4
[02:33:18] <cradek> so far, I smartly only use machines that came as cnc, so I don't have to deal with that kind of stuff
[02:33:26] <SWPadnos> wuss
[02:33:35] <cradek> smart wuss
[02:33:41] <SWPadnos> then again, you have machines you can use
[02:37:08] <cradek> well I wsa too polite to say that
[02:37:12] <cradek> was
[02:37:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:40:13] <Gamma-X> since id be buying new encoders, should I just replace the servos all together?
[02:40:46] <SWPadnos> as cradek said, don't replace anything unless you know you need to
[02:41:02] <SWPadnos> unless you just want to replace the whole new machine, since that should
[02:41:06] <SWPadnos> "just work"
[02:41:41] <cradek> my car isn't working right - should I replace the power steering pump? it's like ten years old.
[02:42:02] <cradek> or maybe get new brakes?
[02:42:19] <SWPadnos> I'd go for the exhaust manifold
[02:42:57] <SWPadnos> oh, and I'm sure the cigarette lighter is rusty - you should definitely replace that
[02:43:16] <cradek> Gamma-X: I'm not making fun of you - but that's what this sounds like to me. Of course in this case you'd ask what my car is doing wrong, or if I couldn't tell, to take it to someone who could...
[02:43:42] <cradek> otherwise I'd be throwing away money with only a very slight chance of fixing my car
[02:43:53] <Gamma-X> http://cgi.ebay.com/SEM-PM-DC-SERVO-Motor-140V-MTS30M4-59-with-Tach-NIB_W0QQitemZ320394312828QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a98fd3c7c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 if you look at this end cap it has a encoder with endcap, I need four of those lol.
[02:44:02] <Gamma-X> yeah I hear u guys...
[02:44:07] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, how much u charge?
[02:44:25] <SWPadnos> $75/hour + expenses
[02:44:39] <SWPadnos> but I'm booked solid through the end of September
[02:44:43] <Gamma-X> dammnn,
[02:44:45] <SWPadnos> at least
[02:45:00] <Gamma-X> u gunna be on the island anytime?
[02:45:21] <Gamma-X> you could stop buy and have a good meal
[02:45:24] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I think I'll be at Radio City or some place similar in mid-September
[02:45:41] <Gamma-X> thats when I pass the grey goose & tonic to you and we walk outside to check out my machine! lol
[02:45:50] <cradek> IMO, if he's nearby, paying for an hour or four at that rate would be a very good investment
[02:45:52] <Gamma-X> radio city? why haha
[02:45:53] <SWPadnos> lucky for me I don't drink :)
[02:46:05] <Gamma-X> ill bring back some cubans?
[02:46:05] <SWPadnos> MTV Music Video awards
[02:46:10] <SWPadnos> or the Emmys or something
[02:46:29] <Gamma-X> your going to an award show? lol
[02:46:30] <Gamma-X> for what
[02:47:20] <SWPadnos> for this: http://www.mtv.com/photos/?fid=1611667&view=thumb
[02:47:24] <SWPadnos> (if it ever loads)
[02:47:33] <SWPadnos> yep, that's the one
[02:49:06] <Gamma-X> for fashion 360? lol
[02:49:15] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'm the guy that makes it work
[02:49:41] <Gamma-X> u make fashion 360 work? I dont get it lol
[02:50:22] <SWPadnos> I'm the one at the computer making sure all the frames from the cameras get downloaded and processed, using the scripts I wrote and the computers I built
[02:50:42] <Gamma-X> ahhhhh... wow haha
[02:50:52] <Gamma-X> wow thats pretty insane lol
[02:50:59] <SWPadnos> somewhat
[02:51:12] <Gamma-X> got any free tickets ;D
[02:51:15] <SWPadnos> it'll be insaner later on, if I ever get back to work on it :)
[02:51:41] <SWPadnos> no, I never even saw the inside of the place for the movie awards, and I was there for 3 days
[02:52:18] <Gamma-X> jease!
[02:53:14] <Gamma-X> the show is over though... it already happened lol
[02:53:43] <SWPadnos> that one did. the upcoming several awards shows haven't yet
[02:53:48] <SWPadnos> nor the concerts
[02:54:04] <SWPadnos> so I'll just get back to designing the new camera control board now. see you
[02:54:31] <Gamma-X> ahhh cool. SWPadnos if your willing to stop by while ur in the area please let me know.
[02:54:49] <SWPadnos> I'd be willing, but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to on that trip
[02:55:11] <SWPadnos> I think we're supposed to be in LA, NY, Dallas, and Atlanta on four consecutive weekends
[02:55:27] <SWPadnos> or maybe it's Houston
[02:56:00] <SWPadnos> anyway, it'll be a bit tight. and I might decide to say hi to my father in Brooklyn instead of helping you with your CNC (you understand :) )
[02:56:18] <Gamma-X> absolutely.
[02:56:25] <SWPadnos> winter is good though - less to do, and better reasons to stay indoors
[02:56:39] <Gamma-X> Even if you dont have time to fix the machine, A home cooked meal would be available.
[02:56:46] <SWPadnos> heh. thanks
[02:56:54] <Gamma-X> anytime.
[02:57:02] <SWPadnos> I'll let you know - just pop back on here some time in a month or so :)
[02:57:10] <Gamma-X> hey my dads like 50 sumthing so you guys can chat lol
[02:57:18] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, will do. Thanks, and good talkin to you.
[02:58:01] <SWPadnos> har hra
[02:58:02] <SWPadnos> har
[02:58:11] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:58:20] <SWPadnos> I'm not even 41 yet
[02:59:17] <Gamma-X> seriously?
[02:59:34] <SWPadnos> I've got a week or so befre that happens ;)
[03:00:00] <Gamma-X> damn your young as hell.
[08:06:22] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[08:56:25] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[10:26:57] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[11:01:27] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[11:50:03] <jerk> How is program for lathe created? Is it some kind of a pocket operation?
[12:11:41] <cradek> what kind of operation do you want to do with the lathe program?
[12:22:44] <jerk> ´╗┐Can I create a lathe program with HeeksCNC as `New Pocket operation' for closet contour in XZ plane?
[12:23:02] <jerk> Can I mill a shaft with lathe?
[12:34:12] <SWPadnos> wow. you can actually buy a 1.9 mil (0.05mm) end mill
[12:34:39] <jerk> What does it made of?
[12:34:46] <SWPadnos> .0157" flute length :)
[12:34:49] <SWPadnos> cobalt steel
[12:34:51] <archivist> small stuph
[12:35:04] <jerk> And will it work? Or is it a lame joke?
[12:35:13] <SWPadnos> it will work, in the right machine
[12:35:22] <SWPadnos> they're expensive though, $14.64 each
[12:35:45] <jerk> and what could be depth of the metal it can mill?
[12:35:58] <SWPadnos> .0157
[12:36:16] <SWPadnos> http://www.mcmaster.com/#8904a11/=2zfesx
[12:40:08] <jerk> SWPadnos: am I right to think the table of diameters, ctutting depth and feedrates can be found for each machine in machine's manual?
[12:40:21] <SWPadnos> no, probably not
[12:41:01] <SWPadnos> there should be maximums and minimums, but nothing that tells you what speeds/feeds to use for vatious materials
[12:41:04] <jerk> SWPadnos: where can I find one? To imagine it right.
[12:41:15] <archivist> runnout on cheaper machines will but tiny end mills
[12:41:22] <archivist> but bust
[12:41:35] <SWPadnos> there may be some information online, but there are a lot of variables
[12:41:48] <SWPadnos> you may need to buy a book, such as "Machinery's Handbook"
[12:41:59] <jerk> slow feedrate is a load, anyway
[12:42:15] <jerk> Are there any free versions?
[12:42:35] <SWPadnos> I haven't really seen much
[12:43:04] <SWPadnos> I did find a spindle HP vs. material cutting rate chart at some point, but haven't been able to find it sines
[12:43:06] <SWPadnos> since
[12:43:26] <archivist> cincinnatti milling manual SWPadnos
[12:43:37] <jerk> i have a scientific book, such a scolar book
[12:43:47] <archivist> and also Sandvik site has values
[12:44:03] <SWPadnos> ok. I guess some manuals will have some starting information
[12:44:17] <SWPadnos> all the cutter manufacturers tell you how much better their stuff is
[12:44:33] <SWPadnos> but it doesn't tell you how fast a particular machine can cut, at what depth
[12:44:47] <SWPadnos> only "our end mills are 3x faster than the competition
[12:44:48] <SWPadnos> "
[12:45:10] <jerk> SWPadnos: really? So I will start from low speeds
[12:45:35] <SWPadnos> that's what I've found anyway - though I haven't had any coffee, so you shouldn't listen to me yet
[12:50:53] <jepler> I used a .010" stub end mill for circuit board trace isolation milling. It gave a number of decent circuit boards, but then it broke. I've since gone back to using 60-degree vee bits for trace isolation milling.
[12:51:16] <jepler> I can barely imagine one 1/5 the diameter
[12:54:07] <jerk> jepler: Do you treat the isolation as closed contours?
[12:55:56] <jepler> jerk: yes, the export from eagle gives a series of closed contours
[12:56:25] <jepler> the computation of the offset from the remaining copper to the tool center is performed in eagle
[12:57:20] <jerk> eagle is some shareware 2D CAD program, right?
[12:57:31] <jepler> yeah, specifically for circuit boards
[12:58:38] <cradek> SWPadnos: I think I've read an in^3/minute per hp, and that seems intuitively like what I get
[12:58:58] <jerk> HeeksCNC can treat closed contours, but it *probably* doesn't understand how to treat between two contours, when that inner one is an island
[12:59:03] <SWPadnos> it varies depending on the material, of course
[12:59:30] <cradek> possibly, but I bet material is more of a tooling issue than a hp issue
[13:00:21] <SWPadnos> there was a table somewhere ...
[13:00:41] <cradek> e.g. you slow down for hss on steel not because you're running out of hp, but because the tool will burn up otherwise
[13:00:48] <SWPadnos> Aluminum is lower than steel (in HP/CI/min^3)
[13:01:08] <SWPadnos> many machines are probably limited by tooling or spindle/axis speed before horsepower
[13:01:20] <cradek> yeah that was what I was trying to say
[13:01:42] <archivist> rigidity bites
[13:01:54] <cradek> I saw some amazing stuff at IMTS, where they were cutting huge blocks of steel, dry, with carbide at breakneck speeds
[13:02:40] <SWPadnos> I guess one way to look at it is that if spindle HP really didn't make a difference, everyone would have 1/4 HP spindles ;)
[13:03:03] <archivist> the importance of dry cutting is to avoid thermal shock to the carbide and thus cracking it
[13:03:59] <cradek> yep
[13:04:20] <jerk> anyway, the safer it is the better
[13:04:32] <cradek> I think the coatings need the heat to work, too
[13:08:32] <jerk> What are the limits by z axis for 3-axis machines? Something like -150 to +5? Or what?
[13:09:13] <archivist> rephase
[13:09:21] <archivist> rephrase
[13:10:16] <jerk> what are limits of Z axis for ~/configs/sim/axis.ini which remind common machines?
[13:10:31] <jepler> the dimensions of sim/axis.ini are not related to any particular real machine
[13:10:37] <jerk> i wrote +2 to -4 mm
[13:10:45] <jerk> jepler: i meant real machine
[13:11:11] <jerk> is it like +5 mm to -200 mm in case i want to cut wood?
[13:11:31] <cradek> machines come in all sizes
[13:11:44] <cradek> what size you need depends on what kind of work you want to do
[13:12:03] <jepler> Is this your question: For a machine with 205mm Z travel, what should [AXIS_2] MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT be set to?
[13:12:14] <jerk> cradek: steel sheets, but also aluminum blocks and some thin wood pieces
[13:12:34] <cradek> it's neat to see the different sizes of machine and different kinds of work in youtube videos - maybe you can get some idea from those
[13:12:38] <jepler> many people choose for Z0 to be at or near the top of travel, so that in the machine coordinate system most or all Z coordinates are negative. But you can do whatever you like.
[13:12:48] <jerk> jepler: no. "For common machines, what can be a Z travel?"
[13:13:00] <jepler> how big is a box?
[13:13:13] <jerk> jepler: right.
[13:13:35] <jerk> jepler: whatever, i haven't seen any machine yet.
[13:13:58] <jerk> i'm imaging.
[13:14:23] <jepler> my own machine is rather small. its Z travel is about 75mm. There exist machines with 1m+ Z travel.
[13:14:26] <jepler> bbl
[13:15:08] <jerk> like those decorating machines
[13:16:24] <jerk> I've just rethought that HeeksCNC probably needs closed contours to be milled, and no any iner contours withing this closed ones.
[13:19:57] <jerk> Anyway, do i need a variety of Z-levels for a lathe program? Or there's something rather more simple?
[13:21:35] <jerk> *inner withing these closed ones.
[13:21:58] <jerk> brb
[13:28:03] <jerk> Trying to start /sim/lathe.ini "File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/vcpparse.py", line 24, in <module> | import xml.dom.ext |ImportError: No module named ext"
[13:28:14] <jerk> and it doesn't run
[13:48:20] <cradek> you're missing a package related to python/xml
[15:28:03] <ilya_> cradek: python/xmlckage? Can it be `http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/python-xml'?
[15:40:15] <jepler> yes -- if you install from a package on hardy, you will get python2.5-xml
[15:40:21] <jepler> presumably jerk did something different than that
[15:55:09] <ilya_> presumably? why different?
[16:00:17] <jimbo655> Are you able to marry the custom pyVCP panel to the bottom of Axis instead of the side?
[16:00:32] <jepler> jimbo655: no, there's only one choice for attachment location
[16:00:49] <jimbo655> Bummer.....
[16:09:56] <ilya_> seb_kuzminsky: you're probably Russian
[16:10:19] <seb_kuzminsky> ilya_: no, but my ancestors were
[16:10:40] <seb_kuzminsky> back in the way back when
[16:11:45] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: got my mesa stuff, I'll get to start wiring this weekend. maybe something will move by the end of the weekend!
[16:11:54] <seb_kuzminsky> woo!
[16:12:09] <seb_kuzminsky> 5i23?
[16:12:21] <cradek> no, two 5i20s that SWPadnos had spare
[16:12:32] <seb_kuzminsky> oh cool
[16:12:42] <cradek> he apparently has big piles of stuff he bought but doesn't want :-)
[16:12:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:12:51] <seb_kuzminsky> a good guy to know ;-)
[16:12:59] <cradek> I don't know yet whether I'll need to use both of them
[16:13:01] <archivist> * archivist listens :)
[16:13:10] <cradek> haha
[16:13:11] <SWPadnos> I do upgrade often, even before I've used the outdated stuff :)
[16:13:14] <cradek> SWPadnos: sorry :-)
[16:13:29] <SWPadnos> as long as everyone pays retail price, I'm happy :)
[16:13:40] <archivist> noo, should be free
[16:13:45] <SWPadnos> how do you like the opto22 boards
[16:13:51] <cradek> I haven't seen them yet
[16:13:53] <SWPadnos> (or have you not seen it yet)
[16:13:55] <SWPadnos> ah
[16:14:19] <cradek> I am going to make two layers of mounting on the door of the big electrical box - there is a place to put hinges
[16:14:45] <cradek> so I should have maybe 4 sq ft+ for the motherboard and opto boards
[16:14:51] <cradek> I hope that's enough
[16:16:30] <archivist> youtube vid on sunday night?
[16:17:04] <cradek> archivist: I said *something* moving :-)
[16:17:20] <archivist> :)
[16:18:09] <archivist> we will let you off IRC questions Sat Sun so you can finish the job
[16:34:24] <geo01005> is Chris Morley on here?
[16:34:43] <cradek> no
[16:35:37] <geo01005> Ok, I wasn't sure if he had a handle the I didn't recognize on here.
[16:39:22] <ilya_> If i have compiled emc2-sim, then installed pyhton-xml.deb, should I recompile to get new modules to be in effect?
[16:39:40] <ilya_> no, it's ok
[16:40:49] <ilya_> 5.5 of `Installing EMC' should be changed, packet `python-xml' should be added (and python-central, but it is in its dependencies)
[16:48:33] <jepler> 5.5 in what document?
[16:49:27] <ilya_> jepler: wiki, `Installing EMC', i have edited it few days before
[16:49:29] <jepler> if you mean http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Compiling_EMC2_in_a_simulator_mode_on_Ubuntu_or_Kubuntu_8_04_or_9_04 then please update it yourself. Follow the BasicSteps so you can edit pages. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[16:52:03] <ilya_> jepler: In a daylight, 1 USD = 3 Mb of my GPRS traffic. I'm sometimes using ADSL connection, but not often.
[17:15:14] <ilya_> GTK+ >=2.10 -- which package for hardy can it be? I want to compile GCam program
[17:17:47] <ilya_> In a lathe mode, feedrates should be calculated as derivation from spindle speed (for example, 1000 rpm)?
[17:22:51] <ilya_> for example, for cutting at 0.2 mm/r with 1000 rpm of the spindle, we add G21 for mm and F200 for feedrate, right?
[17:49:53] <ilya_> ilya_ is now known as jerk
[17:50:10] <jerk> jerk is now known as ilya__
[17:59:53] <jacky_bro> ilya__: why did you left from english ?
[17:59:56] <jacky_bro> can i pm you
[18:01:19] <ilya__> ypu can (I'm reducing traffic for my non-cheap GPRS internet access, and working)
[18:04:26] <GammaX> hey guys
[18:06:47] <ilya__> here we go
[18:32:29] <cradek> ilya__: to cut at 0.2mm/rev on a lathe, program G21 G95 F0.2
[18:32:53] <cradek> ilya__: memorize or print this table (small web page) http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode.html
[18:33:13] <cradek> ^ 12 KB
[18:33:23] <ilya__> cradek: ok, so lathe's feedrate is "an another"?
[18:33:38] <cradek> there are several different ways to specify feed rate
[18:33:49] <ilya__> ok
[18:33:56] <cradek> if you want a certain feed per revolution, you can use feed per revolution mode (G95)
[18:35:35] <ilya__> yeah, exactly, should read gcode_main.html before ask
[18:36:05] <cradek> I think if you have and know only one page of documentation that should be it
[18:36:34] <cradek> I use it all the time!
[18:37:40] <ilya__> cradek: yeah, yeah.
[19:11:26] <seb_kuzminsky> grr, why did enco have to go down right when i was getting all fixed to buy a bunch of stuff
[19:12:15] <skunkworks815> have you not been leading a pure life? hmmmmm?
[19:12:27] <seb_kuzminsky> true, but HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT
[19:12:56] <skunkworks815> it is up here... http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM
[19:13:05] <skunkworks815> or is it order processing?
[19:13:16] <seb_kuzminsky> wait what?
[19:13:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i just clicked on it and got "Internal Server Error"
[19:13:45] <seb_kuzminsky> "cannot read script output pipe"
[19:14:33] <seb_kuzminsky> hmm
[19:14:46] <skunkworks815> uh oh.
[19:14:59] <skunkworks815> your hacked too.. boy. what did you do?
[19:15:45] <seb_kuzminsky> it must be punishment for all the bugs in the hm2 driver
[19:16:28] <skunkworks815> :)
[19:16:47] <seb_kuzminsky> is there a proxy i dont know about?
[19:19:05] <seb_kuzminsky> hm it happens in firefox but no in links (on the same machine)
[19:20:59] <skunkworks815> seb_kuzminsky: I don't think you have to worry anymore. Someone is developing a driver for mach that works with mesa hardware. No need for emc anymore. :o
[19:21:17] <seb_kuzminsky> a challenger appears!
[19:22:20] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: what does www.use-enco.com resolve to, for you?
[19:22:41] <seb_kuzminsky> 209.186.115.54?
[19:22:46] <seb_kuzminsky> or 12.40.224.110?
[19:22:52] <skunkworks815> 12.40.224.110
[19:24:12] <skunkworks815> both ip addresses work in the browser here.
[19:26:32] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: enco free shipping, ESP689
[19:26:39] <seb_kuzminsky> thx cradek
[19:26:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i cleared all my use-enco.com cookies and now it works
[19:27:03] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe it choked on some bad cookie
[19:27:29] <cradek> ooh, last week I had a code for 20% off everything
[19:29:59] <skunkworks815> I have 30 or 40 9gb scsi drives. should I make a 270gb drive?
[19:30:11] <seb_kuzminsky> no
[19:30:18] <skunkworks815> ;)
[19:32:59] <skunkworks815> I could probably only make a 252gb drive anyway with the hardware I have..
[19:33:22] <seb_kuzminsky> you should make a raid1x30 9gb drive
[19:36:11] <seb_kuzminsky> i've been listening to these guys all day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29zGEh56-KY
[19:41:09] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: ESP689 only works for > $99, but WEBJF9 works for > $25
[19:41:35] <cradek> aha
[19:41:48] <cradek> their silly practice of sending different deals to different people is ... silly
[19:42:04] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah the interweb sort of makes that a bit silly
[19:42:13] <cradek> yeah, silly even
[19:42:42] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm thinking about trying indexable carbide for turning tools
[19:42:50] <seb_kuzminsky> but i'm getting confused by all the options
[19:43:09] <cradek> get the dirt cheap set of five tools all taking the same triangular insert
[19:43:15] <cradek> even harbor freight has them
[19:43:32] <seb_kuzminsky> heh that's what got me interested - seems like a cheap way to try it out
[19:43:40] <cradek> (although, HSS works better for aluminum)
[19:43:51] <seb_kuzminsky> but then i made the mistake of trying to learn something about it
[19:43:58] <cradek> yeah I feel your pain
[19:44:24] <seb_kuzminsky> shouldnt turning tools have clearance under the cutting edge? and doesnt that cheap set of five not provide that?
[19:44:30] <cradek> I use those cheapy triangles a lot
[19:44:40] <seb_kuzminsky> TTPG?
[19:44:42] <cradek> there is a bit of clearance, because the work is round
[19:44:46] <seb_kuzminsky> right...
[19:45:41] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: this one? http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=250-1400&PMPXNO=948949&PARTPG=INLMK3
[19:46:16] <cradek> yep
[19:46:28] <cradek> does your lathe take 3/8 tools?
[19:46:32] <seb_kuzminsky> yes
[19:46:44] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm using the A2Z CNC QCTP, which tops out at 3/8
[19:47:04] <seb_kuzminsky> i've been using 5/16 on my hand-ground HSS tools so far
[19:47:07] <cradek> ok, as long as it will go low enough to get the top of the 3/8 tool on center
[19:47:22] <seb_kuzminsky> the docs claim it does :-}
[19:47:49] <seb_kuzminsky> but you think i should stay with HSS for cutting Al?
[19:48:12] <cradek> no coolant, right?
[19:48:15] <seb_kuzminsky> right
[19:48:45] <cradek> I think the carbide will be a bit more likely to give you a built up edge
[19:49:07] <seb_kuzminsky> my "coolant" is squirting WD-40 on it as it cuts
[19:49:08] <cradek> but it'll work fine - it's worth a couple dozen dollars to try, IMO
[19:49:28] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky clicks "buy"
[19:50:06] <seb_kuzminsky> do you use indexable tooling for the mill?
[19:50:23] <cradek> nope
[19:50:46] <cradek> I cut 90% aluminum and zero or negative rake carbide works very badly for that
[19:51:09] <cradek> I have an indexable face mill with (expensive) positive rake inserts and it works only passably
[19:51:28] <cradek> I use a lot of import M2AL end mills - they seem to last a long time
[19:51:37] <seb_kuzminsky> cool, i'll look into that
[19:54:29] <seb_kuzminsky> those TT 221 inserts have about a 7 degree rake? i can't find "TT" at http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm#shape
[19:54:57] <seb_kuzminsky> is it TCMx?
[19:55:45] <cradek> I'm guessing you'll get something like TCMT
[19:56:20] <cradek> it's nice that they have six cutting points
[19:56:39] <seb_kuzminsky> the xCxx means 7 degree rake, i think that means it'll work fine in a 0-degree-rake holder, but you only get to use one side of the insert
[19:56:43] <cradek> oh, sold separately, hm
[19:56:57] <seb_kuzminsky> three cutting points per insert as i understand it
[19:57:07] <cradek> you are right
[19:57:55] <cradek> right center? http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=170&PMITEM=340-1200
[19:58:42] <cradek> I think you want 22x (IC 1/4)
[19:59:26] <cradek> no idea whether you want C2 or C5.
[19:59:47] <cradek> I'd get 221 instead of 222 if doing small work
[20:01:00] <skunkworks815> cradek: how is the lathe running? did you end up getting lexan?
[20:02:43] <seb_kuzminsky> the 222's are 2/3 the price of the 221's
[20:04:29] <seb_kuzminsky> wont the larger corner radius of the 222 (.032 vs .015) give slightly better finish?
[20:13:32] <seb_kuzminsky> should i use TiN carbide or uncoated on Al?
[20:20:54] <seb_kuzminsky> the net of a million lies says: TiN lasts longer but gives worse finish, uncoated wears faster but gives better finish
[20:23:26] <SWPadnos> According to McMaster, TiN and TiCN are OK for Aluminum, but TiAlN/AlTiN are not recommended for Aluiminum
[20:24:03] <seb_kuzminsky> ugh
[20:25:08] <seb_kuzminsky> enco just says TiN, any idea what's the default flavor?
[20:25:21] <SWPadnos> they're different
[20:25:26] <seb_kuzminsky> i guess TiN is without anything else, or it'd say
[20:25:32] <SWPadnos> if it says TiN, it's TiN - not TiCN or AlTiN
[20:25:36] <SWPadnos> right :)
[20:25:46] <SWPadnos> are they purple?
[20:25:56] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, the first cool breeze of sanity in the insert jungle
[20:25:59] <seb_kuzminsky> gold-ish
[20:26:27] <SWPadnos> try searching with mcmaster, they actually have an excellent search engine
[20:26:34] <SWPadnos> (better than DigiKey IMO)
[20:26:45] <SWPadnos> (different, but still better)
[20:26:49] <Jymmm> Cubic zirconia tooling!!!
[20:26:59] <SWPadnos> For Fine Fake Machining!
[20:27:18] <seb_kuzminsky> when i checked mcmaster a year or so ago they seemed way more expensive than enco
[20:27:28] <SWPadnos> they could be
[20:28:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: CZ hardness is 8, Diamond is 10.
[20:29:12] <SWPadnos> but isn't Moh's scale kind of like the Richter scale - some large multiplier per number?
[20:29:24] <Jymmm> a steel file is 6.5
[20:29:30] <SWPadnos> hmm
[20:29:47] <Jymmm> Tungsten carbide is 9
[20:30:11] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness
[20:30:16] <Jymmm> near bottom
[20:31:38] <SWPadnos> well. I don't like CZ because it has no cleavage
[20:32:13] <SWPadnos> but I didn't realize it was that hard
[20:32:14] <Jymmm> NanoDiamonds iterestingly harder than diamond http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggregated_diamond_nanorod
[20:32:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: "The last mill you'll ever need" lol
[20:33:01] <SWPadnos> yeah :)
[20:34:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Heh, could you imagine a CZ gun
[20:34:46] <SWPadnos> I was killed by a fake bullet
[20:35:22] <seb_kuzminsky> Jymmm: cz makes excellent guns: http://cz-usa.com/
[20:35:31] <seb_kuzminsky> ;-)
[20:36:09] <Jymmm> Jsut one more thing for the TSA to put on the ban list.... all jewelry
[20:37:19] <Jymmm> I can see it now... if a group of ppl have enough CZ jewelry on, they could construct a weapon in the lavaetory... blha blah blah"
[20:37:56] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: seen this? http://ts.fujitsu.com/home/products/notebooks/amilo_graphic_booster.html
[20:39:18] <seb_kuzminsky> alex_joni: 8x pci express, nice :-)
[20:41:29] <alex_joni> seems you can hook up 3 external displays with it
[20:41:30] <SWPadnos> huh. funny
[20:42:16] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: thought you might be intrigued at least
[20:42:46] <SWPadnos> somewhat, but not a lot. it's cool but I don't see it as practical for anything I'm doing
[20:44:18] <alex_joni> only to connect an external (e.g. big resolution) monitor to a laptop
[20:44:25] <alex_joni> although I read it only works on special laptops
[20:44:31] <alex_joni> with XGP connectors
[20:44:43] <SWPadnos> yeah, it seems to be a Fujitsu-only (ish) accessory
[20:45:58] <alex_joni> for now..
[20:46:05] <alex_joni> the XGP thingie is an ATI thingie
[20:46:41] <alex_joni> http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/xgp_technology_brief.pdf
[20:52:41] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: Teh 2nd from the bottom video is pretty funny http://cz-usa.com/
[20:53:48] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: Oh *I* have never even heard of them.
[20:55:34] <seb_kuzminsky> Jymmm: heh
[21:37:08] <malem-cnc> anyone familiar with rcs/cms system?
[21:39:00] <malem-cnc> I'm looking for a way to implement the observr pattern
[21:39:57] <malem-cnc> so, what I'd need is a way to register some callback function when memory is written
[21:46:10] <alex_joni> malem-cnc: rcs as in rcslib?
[21:46:18] <malem-cnc> yes
[21:46:36] <alex_joni> using a NML channel, or simply shared memory access?
[21:47:05] <malem-cnc> whatever way that save the code from having to poll the state
[21:47:46] <malem-cnc> all the NML channels only have update() methods
[21:47:58] <alex_joni> right
[21:48:23] <alex_joni> but the client (reader) can do a loop and use peek() to check if new messages are there
[21:48:43] <malem-cnc> what I want is to register a callback function that "listens" for writes
[21:49:27] <malem-cnc> yes, but its a bad practice, and especially on a timing critical application
[21:49:44] <alex_joni> right, probably so
[21:50:25] <malem-cnc> so, where would you put code that listens for all writes?
[21:50:26] <alex_joni> you probably need to take a stab at the rcs sources
[21:50:40] <alex_joni> I'd look for a variable "check_if_read"
[21:51:08] <alex_joni> hmm.. no, the flag is called "was_read"
[21:51:36] <alex_joni> "If queuing is not enabled then a flag is kept in every CMS buffer called was_read. Every time a write is performed on the buffer the flag is set to 0."
[21:52:19] <malem-cnc> REMOTE_CMS_CHECK_IF_READ_REQUEST_TYPE
[21:53:58] <malem-cnc> 52 matches for was_read
[21:54:35] <malem-cnc> the problem is that this field still assumes a poll based query
[21:54:49] <alex_joni> CMS_STATUS CMS::write_raw(void *user_data)
[21:54:56] <malem-cnc> so I can poll and do nothing if was_read is false
[21:54:58] <alex_joni> in cms/cms_in.cc
[21:55:15] <alex_joni> you can probably (somehow) add your callback there
[21:55:38] <alex_joni> the write_raw gets called when a new function gets written to the unbuffered channel
[21:55:49] <alex_joni> and queue_write_raw gets called for buffered channels
[21:57:08] <malem-cnc> good! that's pretty much it!
[21:57:41] <malem-cnc> do you think the board would accept a patch here?
[21:58:10] <alex_joni> depends how it looks :D
[21:58:21] <alex_joni> and how it (might) break other things
[21:58:45] <malem-cnc> well, it would look like the rest of the code around it
[21:59:18] <Jymmm> spaghetti?
[21:59:23] <malem-cnc> It wouldn't break anything, the only risk would be from the client
[21:59:34] <alex_joni> malem-cnc: try it out ;)
[21:59:47] <malem-cnc> exactly, with THIS_IS_MY_CLASS stlye
[22:00:20] <alex_joni> if it looks ok-ish, and doesn't break other cases.. I don't see much of a problem in adding it
[22:00:28] <malem-cnc> I could write nice looking code, but it would contravent Dev coding guidelines
[22:00:34] <alex_joni> what do you need it for?
[22:00:54] <malem-cnc> I'm working on a new gui
[22:01:17] <malem-cnc> And I'm allergic to ugly code and bad practices
[22:02:08] <malem-cnc> and a poll based model is one of the stars among bad practices
[22:03:05] <malem-cnc> thank you, I'll test it out tomorrow
[22:07:37] <malem-cnc> last question
[22:07:42] <malem-cnc> still there?
[22:07:57] <SWPadnos> ask anyway :)
[22:08:08] <malem-cnc> okay!
[22:08:43] <malem-cnc> when write_raw gets called, does it returns before writing anything
[22:08:57] <malem-cnc> (is there some form of delay?
[22:09:52] <malem-cnc> iow : handle_to_global_data->write
[22:10:07] <malem-cnc> is it effective immediately?
[22:10:57] <malem-cnc> it looks as though
[22:11:20] <malem-cnc> memcpy(to, _from, _write_size);PHYSMEM_HANDLE::write(void *_from, long _write_size)
[22:15:20] <malem-cnc> my last problem would be with queued_write_raw()
[22:15:56] <malem-cnc> when/where that queue is unqueued
[22:16:14] <SWPadnos> I can check the RCS handbook, but not right now
[22:16:56] <malem-cnc> I'll do it myself, thank you, at least I feel close to my goal
[22:16:58] <SWPadnos> then again, the code is probably a better place to look, since it was drastically cut down somewhere between RCS and NML
[22:16:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:17:04] <SWPadnos> do you have the book?
[22:17:39] <malem-cnc> well I have this
[22:17:41] <malem-cnc> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/
[22:18:18] <malem-cnc> but I don't think emc is in synch with it
[22:18:37] <SWPadnos> no, it isn't
[22:18:49] <SWPadnos> the NML library is a much reduced version of RCSLIB
[22:19:09] <malem-cnc> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html
[22:19:12] <malem-cnc> no?
[22:20:13] <SWPadnos> I know the code was changed a lot about 4 or 5 years ago, but I don't know if it was just "cleanup" or if there was real (unused) functionality removed
[22:20:23] <SWPadnos> maybe 6 years ago
[22:21:15] <malem-cnc> I wondered why emc doesnt use / package the standard lib
[22:21:38] <malem-cnc> such kind of branching is generally considered a bad idea
[22:21:52] <malem-cnc> but, they must have there reasons
[22:22:01] <SWPadnos> I think there's been divergence in the 10 years since RCS and EMC diverged
[22:22:15] <SWPadnos> I don't know that it would be all that helpful to "merge" the two branches now
[22:22:21] <malem-cnc> ok, I see
[22:22:24] <malem-cnc> anyway
[22:22:38] <SWPadnos> THe RCS handbook is this: http://www.abebooks.com/search/isbn/0471435651
[22:22:45] <SWPadnos> apparently it's gotten relatively expensive
[22:22:46] <malem-cnc> I'll post my question on the mailing list
[22:23:02] <malem-cnc> if you can give me furtheer details, I'll be happy
[22:23:18] <SWPadnos> that's a good idea, but I will tell you that most of us are happy to not know much about RCS/NML :)
[22:23:43] <SWPadnos> so there may not be a whole heck of a lot of expert knowledge available
[22:23:55] <SWPadnos> (I hope I'm wrong about that, but I have this hunch :) )
[22:24:29] <malem-cnc> I see, well it doesnt looks like the most elegant library around, I can't blame
[22:24:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:24:55] <SWPadnos> yeah.
[22:25:20] <malem-cnc> thanks, bye
[22:25:21] <SWPadnos> a lot of RCS and I think some layers of EMC were written when C++ was young and relatively unknown, so they're not shining examples of what could be done with the language
[22:25:23] <SWPadnos> see you
[22:25:54] <malem-cnc> not, rather shining example of what not to do :P
[22:26:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:26:04] <SWPadnos> I was trying to be nice ;)
[22:26:43] <malem-cnc> well, such king of code is very common, "C with classes"
[22:26:45] <malem-cnc> :P
[22:26:54] <SWPadnos> yeah
[22:27:01] <SWPadnos> I do the same sometimes
[22:27:11] <SWPadnos> well, most of the time when I'm using C++
[22:27:11] <malem-cnc> I would have done the very same If I was bord 10 year earlier
[22:27:15] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:28:18] <malem-cnc> And when kids in school will laugh at my code in 10 years, I'll be reassured
[22:28:28] <malem-cnc> ciao!
[22:28:35] <SWPadnos> au revoir
[22:38:10] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: iirc only cruft was removed from rcslib to make libnml
[22:38:16] <alex_joni> like multi-platform support, etc
[22:38:25] <SWPadnos> that could well be
[22:38:41] <SWPadnos> I would imagine that functions that aren't used anywhere could also be considered "cruft" though
[22:38:50] <SWPadnos> it sort of depends
[22:48:45] <alex_joni> a diff would show that, if someone would be motivated enough :D