there a reason why a table would take off on a command and not stop till it hit limit or I hit e stop?
a servo system can easily run away if the feedback is not working
there are probably other reasons too
feedback as in?
position feedback, such as the encoder
I still have my linear scales hooked up! haha
what troubleshooting have you done?
I did everything possible! haha im not near the machine right now, I just wanted to see if there is anything I can read up on so when I get back to the states A can work on it.
or if I should just upgrade to sumtin like an ajax kit. Ive had this mill for over a year now and its just sitting there collecting rust...
if you had done everything possible you would know the cause :-)
I wish I could pay someone to fix this haha. I just cant get it right!
where is it?
if you're serious, you can surely find someone
long island to be exact
I wonder what the going rate is...
no idea in new york
whats the best way of finding someone knowledgable on that?
ask on emc-users, probably
I think you should expect to pay for travel and lodging, and an hourly rate on top of that
Gamma-X, if you're willing to spend the $2500+ on an Ajax kit, I think you could probably spend a little on some encoders
SWPadnos, Hey! Any of you old guys remember me? lol
I don't recall exactly what your hardware is, but if I remember correctly, you're using the scale feedback only (for EMC anyway)
nice to see you gents have some memory left!
you're near the smokestacks of that big power plant on Long Island
with tachs and velocity mode amps?
haha! just kidding
SWPadnos, that is correct! How you been?
seems like that ought to work fine
Not bad... Im over in iraq... Coming home to li for a 2 week vacation in september. Taking the internet girlfriend to providence RI one of the weekends.... Lifes interesting right now haha
good thing I'm too old for that
(unless they suddenly need a lot of 45G, then I'm up a creek still)
and you make a boat load of money 2 haha
lol I doubt it...
bush2 quietly raised the max age limit for the draft...
I'm a National Guard veteran, which means I'm in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) until I'm like 65
I think it's now 42
damn SWPadnos ! haha
hell even I'm not that old yet :-)
which is funny, because when I was in basic training, they told us about how the evil terrible awful Russians could call you back until you were 55!
U know I was thinkin about the encoders... just could never decide on some...
(then later that day they told usthat the fine benevolent democratic US of A could do it until you're 65)
how would you fit an encoder onto this? http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-Servo-motor-Drive-Anilam-Crusader-M-SEM_W0QQitemZ150361840768QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2302439c80&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
if you have tachs and scales I think you may not need more encoders
it doest output when I move the table manually. Once initiated it takes off.
with the G&L, didn't we still have a velocity loop in EMC?
hmmm.. no, that was dual position loops
we had two position loops
Gamma-X: sounds like you should troubleshoot :-)
since the linear scales are so old would it be worth upgrading them?
I'd mount the encoder in the end enclosure that's meant for it
don't go madly and randomly replacing parts because they are old
when you have no clue what's even wrong
I have bits and pieces in my head of what was wrong haha
use that cash to pay someone who can figure out what the deal is
I could for the life of me not find any encoder end caps or encoders that were made to go on there.
(I agree with cradek, but on the subject of encoders ...) my motors have tachs and encoders in the case - all the signals come out the single MIL circular connector
my mill is like that too
well one of them...
14-pin circular connectors?
MS3100 series, pin pattern 24-7
it's round and has some pins...
ok, that sounds similar ;)
if you have the same ones as me, you can just barely make a 3/4" flexible liquid-tight conduit fit in the sealed backshell
for servo hoses :)
I believe I have mt30r4's
so far, I smartly only use machines that came as cnc, so I don't have to deal with that kind of stuff
then again, you have machines you can use
well I wsa too polite to say that
since id be buying new encoders, should I just replace the servos all together?
as cradek said, don't replace anything unless you know you need to
unless you just want to replace the whole new machine, since that should
my car isn't working right - should I replace the power steering pump? it's like ten years old.
or maybe get new brakes?
I'd go for the exhaust manifold
oh, and I'm sure the cigarette lighter is rusty - you should definitely replace that
Gamma-X: I'm not making fun of you - but that's what this sounds like to me. Of course in this case you'd ask what my car is doing wrong, or if I couldn't tell, to take it to someone who could...
otherwise I'd be throwing away money with only a very slight chance of fixing my car
[02:43:53] <Gamma-X> http://cgi.ebay.com/SEM-PM-DC-SERVO-Motor-140V-MTS30M4-59-with-Tach-NIB_W0QQitemZ320394312828QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a98fd3c7c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
if you look at this end cap it has a encoder with endcap, I need four of those lol.
yeah I hear u guys...
SWPadnos, how much u charge?
$75/hour + expenses
but I'm booked solid through the end of September
u gunna be on the island anytime?
you could stop buy and have a good meal
hmmm. I think I'll be at Radio City or some place similar in mid-September
thats when I pass the grey goose & tonic to you and we walk outside to check out my machine! lol
IMO, if he's nearby, paying for an hour or four at that rate would be a very good investment
radio city? why haha
lucky for me I don't drink :)
ill bring back some cubans?
MTV Music Video awards
or the Emmys or something
your going to an award show? lol
for this: http://www.mtv.com/photos/?fid=1611667&view=thumb
(if it ever loads)
yep, that's the one
for fashion 360? lol
yeah. I'm the guy that makes it work
u make fashion 360 work? I dont get it lol
I'm the one at the computer making sure all the frames from the cameras get downloaded and processed, using the scripts I wrote and the computers I built
ahhhhh... wow haha
wow thats pretty insane lol
got any free tickets ;D
it'll be insaner later on, if I ever get back to work on it :)
no, I never even saw the inside of the place for the movie awards, and I was there for 3 days
the show is over though... it already happened lol
that one did. the upcoming several awards shows haven't yet
nor the concerts
so I'll just get back to designing the new camera control board now. see you
ahhh cool. SWPadnos if your willing to stop by while ur in the area please let me know.
I'd be willing, but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to on that trip
I think we're supposed to be in LA, NY, Dallas, and Atlanta on four consecutive weekends
or maybe it's Houston
anyway, it'll be a bit tight. and I might decide to say hi to my father in Brooklyn instead of helping you with your CNC (you understand :) )
winter is good though - less to do, and better reasons to stay indoors
Even if you dont have time to fix the machine, A home cooked meal would be available.
I'll let you know - just pop back on here some time in a month or so :)
hey my dads like 50 sumthing so you guys can chat lol
SWPadnos, will do. Thanks, and good talkin to you.
I'm not even 41 yet
I've got a week or so befre that happens ;)
damn your young as hell.
Valen1 is now known as Valen
Valen1 is now known as Valen
Valen1 is now known as Valen
EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
How is program for lathe created? Is it some kind of a pocket operation?
what kind of operation do you want to do with the lathe program?
Can I create a lathe program with HeeksCNC as `New Pocket operation' for closet contour in XZ plane?
Can I mill a shaft with lathe?
wow. you can actually buy a 1.9 mil (0.05mm) end mill
What does it made of?
.0157" flute length :)
And will it work? Or is it a lame joke?
it will work, in the right machine
they're expensive though, $14.64 each
and what could be depth of the metal it can mill?
[12:36:16] <SWPadnos> http://www.mcmaster.com/#8904a11/=2zfesx
SWPadnos: am I right to think the table of diameters, ctutting depth and feedrates can be found for each machine in machine's manual?
no, probably not
there should be maximums and minimums, but nothing that tells you what speeds/feeds to use for vatious materials
SWPadnos: where can I find one? To imagine it right.
runnout on cheaper machines will but tiny end mills
there may be some information online, but there are a lot of variables
you may need to buy a book, such as "Machinery's Handbook"
slow feedrate is a load, anyway
Are there any free versions?
I haven't really seen much
I did find a spindle HP vs. material cutting rate chart at some point, but haven't been able to find it sines
cincinnatti milling manual SWPadnos
i have a scientific book, such a scolar book
and also Sandvik site has values
ok. I guess some manuals will have some starting information
all the cutter manufacturers tell you how much better their stuff is
but it doesn't tell you how fast a particular machine can cut, at what depth
only "our end mills are 3x faster than the competition
SWPadnos: really? So I will start from low speeds
that's what I've found anyway - though I haven't had any coffee, so you shouldn't listen to me yet
I used a .010" stub end mill for circuit board trace isolation milling. It gave a number of decent circuit boards, but then it broke. I've since gone back to using 60-degree vee bits for trace isolation milling.
I can barely imagine one 1/5 the diameter
jepler: Do you treat the isolation as closed contours?
jerk: yes, the export from eagle gives a series of closed contours
the computation of the offset from the remaining copper to the tool center is performed in eagle
eagle is some shareware 2D CAD program, right?
yeah, specifically for circuit boards
SWPadnos: I think I've read an in^3/minute per hp, and that seems intuitively like what I get
HeeksCNC can treat closed contours, but it *probably* doesn't understand how to treat between two contours, when that inner one is an island
it varies depending on the material, of course
possibly, but I bet material is more of a tooling issue than a hp issue
there was a table somewhere ...
e.g. you slow down for hss on steel not because you're running out of hp, but because the tool will burn up otherwise
Aluminum is lower than steel (in HP/CI/min^3)
many machines are probably limited by tooling or spindle/axis speed before horsepower
yeah that was what I was trying to say
I saw some amazing stuff at IMTS, where they were cutting huge blocks of steel, dry, with carbide at breakneck speeds
I guess one way to look at it is that if spindle HP really didn't make a difference, everyone would have 1/4 HP spindles ;)
the importance of dry cutting is to avoid thermal shock to the carbide and thus cracking it
anyway, the safer it is the better
I think the coatings need the heat to work, too
What are the limits by z axis for 3-axis machines? Something like -150 to +5? Or what?
what are limits of Z axis for ~/configs/sim/axis.ini which remind common machines?
the dimensions of sim/axis.ini are not related to any particular real machine
i wrote +2 to -4 mm
jepler: i meant real machine
is it like +5 mm to -200 mm in case i want to cut wood?
machines come in all sizes
what size you need depends on what kind of work you want to do
Is this your question: For a machine with 205mm Z travel, what should [AXIS_2] MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT be set to?
cradek: steel sheets, but also aluminum blocks and some thin wood pieces
it's neat to see the different sizes of machine and different kinds of work in youtube videos - maybe you can get some idea from those
many people choose for Z0 to be at or near the top of travel, so that in the machine coordinate system most or all Z coordinates are negative. But you can do whatever you like.
jepler: no. "For common machines, what can be a Z travel?"
how big is a box?
jepler: whatever, i haven't seen any machine yet.
my own machine is rather small. its Z travel is about 75mm. There exist machines with 1m+ Z travel.
like those decorating machines
I've just rethought that HeeksCNC probably needs closed contours to be milled, and no any iner contours withing this closed ones.
Anyway, do i need a variety of Z-levels for a lathe program? Or there's something rather more simple?
*inner withing these closed ones.
Trying to start /sim/lathe.ini "File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/vcpparse.py", line 24, in <module> | import xml.dom.ext |ImportError: No module named ext"
and it doesn't run
you're missing a package related to python/xml
cradek: python/xmlckage? Can it be `http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/python-xml'?
yes -- if you install from a package on hardy, you will get python2.5-xml
presumably jerk did something different than that
presumably? why different?
Are you able to marry the custom pyVCP panel to the bottom of Axis instead of the side?
jimbo655: no, there's only one choice for attachment location
seb_kuzminsky: you're probably Russian
ilya_: no, but my ancestors were
back in the way back when
seb_kuzminsky: got my mesa stuff, I'll get to start wiring this weekend. maybe something will move by the end of the weekend!
no, two 5i20s that SWPadnos had spare
he apparently has big piles of stuff he bought but doesn't want :-)
a good guy to know ;-)
I don't know yet whether I'll need to use both of them
* archivist listens :)
I do upgrade often, even before I've used the outdated stuff :)
SWPadnos: sorry :-)
as long as everyone pays retail price, I'm happy :)
noo, should be free
how do you like the opto22 boards
I haven't seen them yet
(or have you not seen it yet)
I am going to make two layers of mounting on the door of the big electrical box - there is a place to put hinges
so I should have maybe 4 sq ft+ for the motherboard and opto boards
I hope that's enough
youtube vid on sunday night?
archivist: I said *something* moving :-)
we will let you off IRC questions Sat Sun so you can finish the job
is Chris Morley on here?
Ok, I wasn't sure if he had a handle the I didn't recognize on here.
If i have compiled emc2-sim, then installed pyhton-xml.deb, should I recompile to get new modules to be in effect?
no, it's ok
5.5 of `Installing EMC' should be changed, packet `python-xml' should be added (and python-central, but it is in its dependencies)
5.5 in what document?
jepler: wiki, `Installing EMC', i have edited it few days before
if you mean http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Compiling_EMC2_in_a_simulator_mode_on_Ubuntu_or_Kubuntu_8_04_or_9_04
then please update it yourself. Follow the BasicSteps so you can edit pages. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
jepler: In a daylight, 1 USD = 3 Mb of my GPRS traffic. I'm sometimes using ADSL connection, but not often.
GTK+ >=2.10 -- which package for hardy can it be? I want to compile GCam program
In a lathe mode, feedrates should be calculated as derivation from spindle speed (for example, 1000 rpm)?
for example, for cutting at 0.2 mm/r with 1000 rpm of the spindle, we add G21 for mm and F200 for feedrate, right?
ilya_ is now known as jerk
jerk is now known as ilya__
ilya__: why did you left from english ?
can i pm you
ypu can (I'm reducing traffic for my non-cheap GPRS internet access, and working)
here we go
ilya__: to cut at 0.2mm/rev on a lathe, program G21 G95 F0.2
ilya__: memorize or print this table (small web page) http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode.html
^ 12 KB
cradek: ok, so lathe's feedrate is "an another"?
there are several different ways to specify feed rate
if you want a certain feed per revolution, you can use feed per revolution mode (G95)
yeah, exactly, should read gcode_main.html before ask
I think if you have and know only one page of documentation that should be it
I use it all the time!
cradek: yeah, yeah.
grr, why did enco have to go down right when i was getting all fixed to buy a bunch of stuff
have you not been leading a pure life? hmmmmm?
true, but HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT
it is up here... http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM
or is it order processing?
i just clicked on it and got "Internal Server Error"
"cannot read script output pipe"
your hacked too.. boy. what did you do?
it must be punishment for all the bugs in the hm2 driver
is there a proxy i dont know about?
hm it happens in firefox but no in links (on the same machine)
seb_kuzminsky: I don't think you have to worry anymore. Someone is developing a driver for mach that works with mesa hardware. No need for emc anymore. :o
a challenger appears!
skunkworks: what does www.use-enco.com resolve to, for you?
both ip addresses work in the browser here.
seb_kuzminsky: enco free shipping, ESP689
i cleared all my use-enco.com cookies and now it works
maybe it choked on some bad cookie
ooh, last week I had a code for 20% off everything
I have 30 or 40 9gb scsi drives. should I make a 270gb drive?
I could probably only make a 252gb drive anyway with the hardware I have..
you should make a raid1x30 9gb drive
i've been listening to these guys all day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29zGEh56-KY
cradek: ESP689 only works for > $99, but WEBJF9 works for > $25
their silly practice of sending different deals to different people is ... silly
yeah the interweb sort of makes that a bit silly
yeah, silly even
i'm thinking about trying indexable carbide for turning tools
but i'm getting confused by all the options
get the dirt cheap set of five tools all taking the same triangular insert
even harbor freight has them
heh that's what got me interested - seems like a cheap way to try it out
(although, HSS works better for aluminum)
but then i made the mistake of trying to learn something about it
yeah I feel your pain
shouldnt turning tools have clearance under the cutting edge? and doesnt that cheap set of five not provide that?
I use those cheapy triangles a lot
there is a bit of clearance, because the work is round
cradek: this one? http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=250-1400&PMPXNO=948949&PARTPG=INLMK3
does your lathe take 3/8 tools?
i'm using the A2Z CNC QCTP, which tops out at 3/8
i've been using 5/16 on my hand-ground HSS tools so far
ok, as long as it will go low enough to get the top of the 3/8 tool on center
the docs claim it does :-}
but you think i should stay with HSS for cutting Al?
no coolant, right?
I think the carbide will be a bit more likely to give you a built up edge
my "coolant" is squirting WD-40 on it as it cuts
but it'll work fine - it's worth a couple dozen dollars to try, IMO
* seb_kuzminsky clicks "buy"
do you use indexable tooling for the mill?
I cut 90% aluminum and zero or negative rake carbide works very badly for that
I have an indexable face mill with (expensive) positive rake inserts and it works only passably
I use a lot of import M2AL end mills - they seem to last a long time
cool, i'll look into that
those TT 221 inserts have about a 7 degree rake? i can't find "TT" at http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm#shape
is it TCMx?
I'm guessing you'll get something like TCMT
it's nice that they have six cutting points
the xCxx means 7 degree rake, i think that means it'll work fine in a 0-degree-rake holder, but you only get to use one side of the insert
oh, sold separately, hm
three cutting points per insert as i understand it
you are right
right center? http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=170&PMITEM=340-1200
I think you want 22x (IC 1/4)
no idea whether you want C2 or C5.
I'd get 221 instead of 222 if doing small work
cradek: how is the lathe running? did you end up getting lexan?
the 222's are 2/3 the price of the 221's
wont the larger corner radius of the 222 (.032 vs .015) give slightly better finish?
should i use TiN carbide or uncoated on Al?
the net of a million lies says: TiN lasts longer but gives worse finish, uncoated wears faster but gives better finish
According to McMaster, TiN and TiCN are OK for Aluminum, but TiAlN/AlTiN are not recommended for Aluiminum
enco just says TiN, any idea what's the default flavor?
i guess TiN is without anything else, or it'd say
if it says TiN, it's TiN - not TiCN or AlTiN
are they purple?
wow, the first cool breeze of sanity in the insert jungle
try searching with mcmaster, they actually have an excellent search engine
(better than DigiKey IMO)
(different, but still better)
Cubic zirconia tooling!!!
For Fine Fake Machining!
when i checked mcmaster a year or so ago they seemed way more expensive than enco
they could be
SWPadnos: CZ hardness is 8, Diamond is 10.
but isn't Moh's scale kind of like the Richter scale - some large multiplier per number?
a steel file is 6.5
Tungsten carbide is 9
[20:30:11] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness
well. I don't like CZ because it has no cleavage
but I didn't realize it was that hard
NanoDiamonds iterestingly harder than diamond http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggregated_diamond_nanorod
SWPadnos: "The last mill you'll ever need" lol
SWPadnos: Heh, could you imagine a CZ gun
I was killed by a fake bullet
Jymmm: cz makes excellent guns: http://cz-usa.com/
Jsut one more thing for the TSA to put on the ban list.... all jewelry
I can see it now... if a group of ppl have enough CZ jewelry on, they could construct a weapon in the lavaetory... blha blah blah"
SWPadnos: seen this? http://ts.fujitsu.com/home/products/notebooks/amilo_graphic_booster.html
alex_joni: 8x pci express, nice :-)
seems you can hook up 3 external displays with it
SWPadnos: thought you might be intrigued at least
somewhat, but not a lot. it's cool but I don't see it as practical for anything I'm doing
only to connect an external (e.g. big resolution) monitor to a laptop
although I read it only works on special laptops
with XGP connectors
yeah, it seems to be a Fujitsu-only (ish) accessory
the XGP thingie is an ATI thingie
[20:46:41] <alex_joni> http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/xgp_technology_brief.pdf
seb_kuzminsky: Teh 2nd from the bottom video is pretty funny http://cz-usa.com/
seb_kuzminsky: Oh *I* have never even heard of them.
anyone familiar with rcs/cms system?
I'm looking for a way to implement the observr pattern
so, what I'd need is a way to register some callback function when memory is written
malem-cnc: rcs as in rcslib?
using a NML channel, or simply shared memory access?
whatever way that save the code from having to poll the state
all the NML channels only have update() methods
but the client (reader) can do a loop and use peek() to check if new messages are there
what I want is to register a callback function that "listens" for writes
yes, but its a bad practice, and especially on a timing critical application
right, probably so
so, where would you put code that listens for all writes?
you probably need to take a stab at the rcs sources
I'd look for a variable "check_if_read"
hmm.. no, the flag is called "was_read"
"If queuing is not enabled then a flag is kept in every CMS buffer called was_read. Every time a write is performed on the buffer the flag is set to 0."
52 matches for was_read
the problem is that this field still assumes a poll based query
CMS_STATUS CMS::write_raw(void *user_data)
so I can poll and do nothing if was_read is false
you can probably (somehow) add your callback there
the write_raw gets called when a new function gets written to the unbuffered channel
and queue_write_raw gets called for buffered channels
good! that's pretty much it!
do you think the board would accept a patch here?
depends how it looks :D
and how it (might) break other things
well, it would look like the rest of the code around it
It wouldn't break anything, the only risk would be from the client
malem-cnc: try it out ;)
exactly, with THIS_IS_MY_CLASS stlye
if it looks ok-ish, and doesn't break other cases.. I don't see much of a problem in adding it
I could write nice looking code, but it would contravent Dev coding guidelines
what do you need it for?
I'm working on a new gui
And I'm allergic to ugly code and bad practices
and a poll based model is one of the stars among bad practices
thank you, I'll test it out tomorrow
ask anyway :)
when write_raw gets called, does it returns before writing anything
(is there some form of delay?
iow : handle_to_global_data->write
is it effective immediately?
it looks as though
memcpy(to, _from, _write_size);PHYSMEM_HANDLE::write(void *_from, long _write_size)
my last problem would be with queued_write_raw()
when/where that queue is unqueued
I can check the RCS handbook, but not right now
I'll do it myself, thank you, at least I feel close to my goal
then again, the code is probably a better place to look, since it was drastically cut down somewhere between RCS and NML
do you have the book?
well I have this
[22:17:41] <malem-cnc> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/
but I don't think emc is in synch with it
no, it isn't
the NML library is a much reduced version of RCSLIB
[22:19:09] <malem-cnc> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html
I know the code was changed a lot about 4 or 5 years ago, but I don't know if it was just "cleanup" or if there was real (unused) functionality removed
maybe 6 years ago
I wondered why emc doesnt use / package the standard lib
such kind of branching is generally considered a bad idea
but, they must have there reasons
I think there's been divergence in the 10 years since RCS and EMC diverged
I don't know that it would be all that helpful to "merge" the two branches now
ok, I see
THe RCS handbook is this: http://www.abebooks.com/search/isbn/0471435651
apparently it's gotten relatively expensive
I'll post my question on the mailing list
if you can give me furtheer details, I'll be happy
that's a good idea, but I will tell you that most of us are happy to not know much about RCS/NML :)
so there may not be a whole heck of a lot of expert knowledge available
(I hope I'm wrong about that, but I have this hunch :) )
I see, well it doesnt looks like the most elegant library around, I can't blame
a lot of RCS and I think some layers of EMC were written when C++ was young and relatively unknown, so they're not shining examples of what could be done with the language
not, rather shining example of what not to do :P
I was trying to be nice ;)
well, such king of code is very common, "C with classes"
I do the same sometimes
well, most of the time when I'm using C++
I would have done the very same If I was bord 10 year earlier
And when kids in school will laugh at my code in 10 years, I'll be reassured
SWPadnos: iirc only cruft was removed from rcslib to make libnml
like multi-platform support, etc
that could well be
I would imagine that functions that aren't used anywhere could also be considered "cruft" though
it sort of depends
a diff would show that, if someone would be motivated enough :D