well that figures
nice weather for the last 3 days, and we get heavy downpour tonight
after they've stripped the siding off my house
Who're they? Mobsters?
we're getting the siding replaced, but that means they take off the old stuff first
just before a weekend
Could RTAI waste a memory plate on my laptop?
what is a mempry plate?
i'm taking it back from guarantee shop
DDR or so, 1024 Mb RAM
oh, a memory "stick"?
or, not mor
I don't see how RTAI could do anything to memory that any other software couldn't do
This laptop I'm using right now can not work in RTAI at all. Have to restart it immediately.
did you compile it yourself?
Anyway, RTAI + Laptop = problems due to the laptop's construction and ideology
SWPadnos: no, bootable CD
yes, but it should still run. it just wouldn't be expected to have good latency
that one was from stock ubuntu repositories
that isn't RTAI
SWPadnos: what a difference?
a big difference
SWPadnos: ok, from EMC2's repositories then
now I don't know the question
it was from EMC2 repositories, after an install-emc2.sh scipt
that was RTAI, and I probably run something else to the latency test.
ok. I thought you were trying to get things working on 9.04, which is why I asked about compiling it yourself
it's very easy to make an RTAI kernel that doesn't work, much harder to make one that does work.
even on a PC?
there should be patched something, with a proper architecture.
there are a lot of settings, and if you get some wrong you're in trouble
sure, I can download and patch the kernel, and build myself some nice RTAI goodness
unless it doesn't work on my hardware
with the settings I chose
Is it true, that there are many used steppers and drives -- so as `we are capable to buy couple of them and arrange a machine'
that probably depends on where you are
or it's cheaper to buy a whole machine and changeleadscrews?
Far from CNC machines, order through the Internets
those aren't an either/or group
you need steppers (or servos), drives, *and* screws
screws can be created here
buying a whole machine vs building one is a personal preference, and probably depends as much on budget and availability of parts
so can motors, I bet
the only problem is material isn't cheap
if you have a $10000 budget and want to get a machine soon, you can buy a Tormach (assuming you need a milling machine with that work envelope)
if you have a $1000 budget and a lot of time, then you'll probably need to buy parts
So, am i right to think `Stepper' = Motor and an electric device, which can be connected to the parallel port immediately?
Are these parts are `complete'? Or buying something in addition to motors, itself, and ordering it from all over the world is a part of the work, anyway?
you need much more power than a parallel port can provide, which is where the driver comes in
and a power supply
and probably some interface electronics (a "breakout board" or BOB) at minimum
and then switches, relays, a spindle drive and motor
and *then* the mechanical parts
I thought I could cycle & machining instead of staying near the mill... ;)
yeah, switches -- so much!
I'm reading info these days. I think many firms here try to use cnc for doors and stuff made of wood.
yes, CNC wood routers are good for that
and they actually pay about a 1 K per month to any worker
is that good there?
new apartments are about 70 K
a family of 4, each earning $1000/month, would be below poverty level here
cars as Toyota Land Cruiser is probably 60-70 K
which is why I ask :)
anyway, it's crisis, so many poor workers have only 999 $, not 1 K ;)
SWPadnos: no place has/sells case mounting hardware
Why shouldn't the graphics card use poprietary ati driver? There's a poblem, xorg.conf is needed to be appended with `disable composite' lines, or something else/
`MDI' = Mode Du Intelligence, or 'Manual ...something... ...something...'?
manual data input?
"May Destroy Investment"
SWPadnos: could be!
manual device interface
no, swpadnos is correct
that is actually what mdi stands for
I preferm toastyde1th's definition
"Must Demonstrate Intelligence"
never have I so loudly yelled "oh jesus christ" as when I am using mdi
toastyde1th: I dont see why you would do that... He's laughing his ass of at you too.
And by 'you' I mean anyone that has/had/will do that
Notice that there wasn't an 'if' in there.
it's a morning, you've an evening
same old story
morning coffee. what a noble act! I would rather with raw bananas interact!
Valen1 is now known as Valen
the mill is safely indoors in one piece!
oh wow, it's midnight :-)
cradek: what did you get? (mill)
a little vmc
mori seiki mv jr
[05:18:34] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UXd9df0-RM
not my machine, but same model in this video
did you get it from HGR?
nope, did you see one there?
no, just curious
I look at their site a lot though
we've bought a lot of 'stuff' from them in the last year
but buyer beware
I figure it's going to need a lot of tlc if it comes from them, but have been pleasantly surprised too
have you used uship.com? it worked great for us. found a nice independent guy with a big truck who was coming this way.
I haven't, but will check them out
I assume you're going to retrofit the machine with emc2?
yes the control boards are missing
I've been out of the loop with emc- I've been totally into heekscnc lately . I'll try and keep up on your progress on this one
this machine has a random carousel where tools move around in pockets. I wrote support for that, but it is still on a branch so far
other than that, I don't think it'll be anything new
are you going to be able to re use the drives and servo motors?
yes I sure hope so
and the ac spindle drive
I hope I hope
the control was yasnac
I don't know much about it yet...
we have some yasnac controls at work- they seem pretty decent
you can find the old manuals on the yasnac website too
there might be a maint manual there
nice, I will try that.
I need docs for at least the amps and vfd. I don't have any yet.
the wiring is not obvious unfortunately
if you don't find them online, email me and I will look at work to see what we have
ok, thank you
we will probably end up retrofitting them someday too
I have a maintenance type manual that had the pull stud dimensions - that was a great help - I ordered tooling already. (yes maybe premature)
is Stuart using that big 5 axis Cinci for production yet?
not QUITE yet
I was there recently and he's finally happy with how his geometric-error compensating kinematics are working
I hope he can post more videos when he's running something really big on it
we measured the distance by which the spindle centerline is beside, instead of through, the center of rotation of B
if I remember right, it's 0.043 inches
seems like a huge error
his kinematics were keeping position at the table to +- .005 while moving B throughout its range
that's very interesting- I love that you can do that without a mechanical fix
also when you swing B, there is a tiny bit of movement in Y - the head and table aren't quite parallel
those were the only two measurements I saw
wow, it's late - I'm off
nice to talk to you
well, I need to go read- good chatting
what is a good place to shop online for vibration absorbers? :-D
what kind of application?
for the outdoor unit of my airco, the vibrations are travelling through the walls
than through the floor into my bed. Can't hear anything when I'm sitting up, but it's driving me crazy when laying down
do you mean the air conditioner compressor?
yes, that one
it should have vibration isolators all ready... is it touching the structure somewhere?
doesn't touch anything
actually it's complexer, originally the outdoor unit was mounted directly on brackets to the wall
it was silent outdoor, but vibrations through wall/floor/bed made that i couldn't sleep
so they put absorbers between the outdoor unit and the brackets
that solved the travelling vibrations, but made the case of the unit vibrate making so much noise that my neighbour started to complain
your neighbor is too close
that's also a problem :-)
I put a sack of sand on top of the unit 2 years ago, that solved all the problems untill it bursted few weeks ago
My idea is to replace the current big/soft dampers with lower ones an put a heavy (concrete) plate between the dampers and the unit
to get enough inertia to hold the case from vibrating
why not just put a sack of quickcrete on top it will harden like a rock after a few rains
what is the script syntax to wait for a key press? Like press any key to close this window...
what scripting language, and what kind of execution (console vs. separate window)?
I'm launching a terminal window from the desktop
so your script runs in a terminal
but the window closes as soon as the script is finished
because I'm using a launcher
check the "leave terminal open after execution" box in the launcher :)
(or uncheck the "close terminal after ...
I don't see that option in 8.04
it should be near the "run in a terminal" option (however that's spelled)
[12:54:24] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/how-to-make-shell-script-wait-for-key-press-to-proceed...-687491/
SWPadnos: your a google guru
"bash wait for keypress" ...
(no quotes though)
* BigJohnT doesn't know anything about bash
now if only I could find out how you're supposed to mount a network interface to a house, I'd be in good shape
(such that you can replace siding around it)
how big is it?
they make dodads for light fixtures that are about 4.5" x 4.5" or so
the NID is pretty small, maybe 10" across and 6" high
and our electric meter is also bolted to the siding, which is annoying
first because I have to open the box to undo the screws (which doesn't make me happy since there's no disconnect)
second because there's a wire in there that goes to nothing, but it's clamped in the same cable clamp as the main power feed
on Dad's house I mounted some treated wood to the OSB then trimmed around it with "J" or whatever it's called
and third because there's no slack in the wires, so I can't move the box far off the house (to remove old siding, put in new siding, or put a panel behind it)
Z-strip (drip edge)?
the same stuff you trim between the siding and the top of the wall where it meets the soffit
oh. that could be J channel
just like you would trim around a window
Z-strip is used above windows
hmmm bash read doesn't work
what is the line from the script?
read -p "press any key" -n1 -s
4000 lines down in man bash I find read :/
yeah, "Shell Builtin Commands" :)
des it blow past the read, wait for you to press return, something else ... ?
(obviously I don't have a machine handy to test with, or I'd answer the question myself)
yea, it just blows by and the terminal closes
two silly things to try: 1) remove the -p "yadda"
(you can echo -n "press any key" above the read to print the prompt)
2) separate the n and 1: read -n 1 ...
also, you may need to insure that the input buffer is flushed before issuing the read command - it's possible that earlier keypresses are being held until they're asked for
this might also be helpful, if you want to do launcher-foo instead :) http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-938925.html
there seems to be something strage after this line "sudo -S make setuid << 1" things like echo are not in red after that line
ssh also does funny things to stdio
what does `-S' option do?\
i'm on a new laptop already.
The -S (stdin) option causes sudo to read the password from the standard input instead of the terminal device.
I moved the read to above the sudo... and it works now
^^ from the manpage
As i said, ubuntu 8.04, being installed from usb stick via a backported usb-creator can not mount any USB flash disks
BigJohnT, yeah. you may need to connect another file descriptor to stdin, then messa roundwith sudo, then read -u <the_saved_fd>
i mean usual ubuntu 8.04, not RTAI kernel, which doesn't support usb by default
it works for me putting the read ahead of the sudo I can see any errors before the terminal closes
BigJohnT: do you have a script to compile emc2? I had one, starting from 'dpkg' in subdirectory, compiling emc2-sim and even wine!
time to run. see you later
going to start clearing the spot for the tower this morning
see you later
i wish i knew how to append the xorg.conf file to disable composite extensions
ilya_: Option "Composite" "Disable" ?
in the "Extensions" section
Poincare: when you use a proprietary ati driver, you need to disable composite extensions in /etc/X11/xorg.conf to see graphics in the AXIS interface
you already tried the composite option?
I had script, which copies my files to /etc/wvdial.conf, /usr/share/stardict/dic, installas *.deb packages, compiles emc2-sim and wine (after successfull proprietary driver installation)
Poincare: as i say, `composite' option doesn't let you see graphics in AXIS's graphics window until you drag the pointer within that window
i tried it and also couldn't play games as GTA SA in ubuntu 8.04
Section "Extensions" | Option "Composite" "disable" | EndSection
then "sudo /etc/init.d./gdm restart"
and "sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf" to edit it in terminal if changes in xorg.conf weren't successfull
5.5 of the `Installing EMC2' guide
* BigJohnT goes to get the chainsaw out and clear the spot for the wireless high speed internet tower :)
internet tower ?
does anyone here use solid edge ? I'd like to find out if it can export in any format that is useable by EMC2
HeeksCNC + Inkscape
.g solid edge
I have access to solid edge, it appears to be excellent CAD/CAE software
SE CNC Converter is a must-have tool to automate extraction of 2D and 3D drawings from proprietary Solid Edge format to CNC Machines compatible files.
I'll have a look at that
Xteven: is it free from charge?
I have some unused traffic and want to see some good pictures of CNC machines. If someone can mention any, please, give a link.
those, revealing switches, cables, and so on. As for beginner.
ilya_: no, it costs money
but my university has some licensing agreement wil siemens PLM (author of solid edge)
and I can get it for free
thats the reason I'm considering it ;)
I can get educational ANSYS, but I have already tried caelinux2008.iso from www.caelinux.org
the SE CNC convertor is free I think, although you need a SE license
and there is also solid edge 2D, which is free
[15:41:23] <Xteven> http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/free2d/index.shtml
"it's absolutely FREE to download and use."
maybe worth checking out
I don't really like 3d-modelling for Finite element analysis except, for some certain cases where it saves time
ok, to see it, i should wait till the end of this card, disconnect and change sim-card
i'm saving link
i have compiled emc2-sim from source with `--enable-documentation' and reading it. Need to finish reading and try to get employed
have to cut the lawn
it's almost a midnight ? =-O
skunkworks: any good CNC-related pictures for beginners?
ilya_ what do u want pictures for, to get an idea of what to build etc?
has a lot of good ideas
pjm: i'm new to CNC and usually browse internet from home via GPRS without any graphics
ahh good idea, i use lynx browser myself
need good interesting pictures right now, everyone of you can point out some good ones
interesting from what perspective? mechanics / electronics / blah?
i'm using firefox with web-developer toolbar, which is capable to upload images without renewing the page, it saves time and efoorts
rather connection to PC
3.24 K/s ===> downloading some dictionaries :)
tap tap tap... is this thing on?
how goes it?
is there a complete hal reference somewhere?
[18:39:23] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
Jymmm: pretty fine
is stepgen.position-scale used for stepgen velocity control as well?
doubt it - doesn't make much sense
so how do i set scale for stepgen velocity contorl :)
oh, I'm wrong
the man page says opposite what I said - in that case, it is usually right
in fact it explicitly has the answer to your question
at that url I gave you earlier, click on stepgen.9
oh, i was reading under http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_rtcomps.html
, it wasn't clear on that point. the manpage seems more complete. thanks again.. :)
i'll try to be more thurogh before asking more questions on the subject :P
I think the man pages are usually best for the hal components
no big deal - there are lots of places to find docs - it's not obvious sometimes.
alex_joni: Did you see my new (surplus for $50) toy? http://www.cidesign.com/product_detail.jsp?productID=60®ion=us
alex_joni: 8 bays of sata hot swap goodness
alex_joni: Of course I've been looking for years, and when I FINALLY find one, the very next day this is advertised... http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=8104962&subid=26353009&type=
It has the OS on the 1st hdd
tom1 is now known as tom3p
Jymmm: what's so special about it?
somebody was looking for a mid power edm supply design? http://cscott.net/Projects/FabClass/final/Schematic/edm-power.pdf
alex_joni: how do you mean?
i didnt think it'd handle finishing frequencies, but would rough ok
PC with 4 sata hdds
alex_joni: It's a NAS box
linux+samba = NAS
it still runs linux probably ;)
alex_joni: rip ut the WHS and toss on FreeNAS as example
I'm tempted to buy try it out with linux just to see how good it is.
alex_joni: The best thing is that they are howswap drives and tray all in a single unit.
I RTFM'ed, but I dont see anything about RAID or growing and max supports 4TB, but for $350 not too shabby.
get a drobo
USB only fsck that
even the new 8 bay drobo is iSCSI only
they have droboshare
NAS for drobo
what are the `switches' between the parallel port and three steppers?
[19:20:25] <alex_joni> http://www.drobo.com/products/droboshare.php
It's still limited to USB speeds
and only 10/100 iirc
ilya1: step motor drives
the power thingies that output the current for the motors to move
motor drivers like gecko
can i buy three steppers and cable to connect them to the power supply and a computer, and try a test run
alex_joni: still limited to usb speeds.
ilya1: sure, they'll just spin of course
alex_joni: and what is a `power supply'?
ilya1: something you connect to power (220V AC) and it outputs power for the motor drivers (usually DC, 40-70V)
alex_joni: ok, so stepper = controlling device + motor itself, and controlling device have two variables: input as a signal and as DC 40-70V, and output as more or less constant in time DC 40-70V
so, all these parts can be easily ordered through internet, right?
ilya1: No, You need motor driver, like gecko or xylotex and you connect the motor to that (if using stepper motors).
You connect the power supply and computer to the motor driver.
Jymmm: and the motor, itself (and checking if they're connectable)
ok, and all these parts seems to be standard.
I just see many self-made microschemas in the internets
What is it for: http://www.cnczone.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/35/cat/1
? Something, dedicated to reliable signals?
Am I right to say "your computer works with RTAI kernel and i recommend add two usual coolers, which red wires are connected subsequentally -- to reduce speed while having a decent air movement"
or RTAI can only overheat those Laptop's CPU's with their IRQ nature?
I.e. "RTAI let no CPU to idle" even when latency isn't needed by any program
that is not true
you have rtai running and linux running
alex_joni: which statement?
rtai is only running a tiny amount of time
when linux is running you can look at the processor load
RTAI + casual Linux
if you are still at <50% that means that you still get some time ofr the CPU to be idle
and? Why does laptop stop to work and needs a restart?
alex_joni: ok, and when it's being used -- laptop with turned off acpi support can not handle this load, right?
Again, why whould I add http://www.cnczone.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/35/cat/1
between my ***not-bad-for-CNC-computer's parallel port*** and actual wire to the machine's steppers
How does cable spreads over three (or more) different engines? Is there any additional device between this cable from a computer and steppers?
you still need to do wiring
that device provides some aditional components (described on that page)
wiring as 1,2,3 --> 1st stepper, 4,5,6 --> 2nd, etc?
something like that
`isolation'? reliability is meant?
isolation means bad currents can't reach and damage your PC
oh, it's wise :)
ok, and i manually connect those wires from pins to steppers, right? Any standard physical interfaces for this sake?
there are lots of solutions
it depends what you want to do
alex_joni: like what?
you always start from the machine specs
then you size the motors
based on that you decide what drivers to use
based on the drivers you look for a breakoutboard
self-made machine with standard components on a mechanical plant
that doesn't mean anything
consider your X axis
the product you showed earlier
that's called a breakout board
2 meters long, 5 mm thick metal to cut
with ... forgot the word
what will you use to cut?
so you want a router (2m x ...) that cuts 5mm metal?
a drill-like tool for cutting & finishing
yeah, could be
that's going to be hard
like a big one, as a bridge with carriage and a spindle
that's called a gantry design
standard parts from sheet metal
[19:53:01] <alex_joni> http://www.gudel.com/common/img/products/linear/monoroll/monoroll-gantry-img01.jpg
you need a lot of stiffness to cut 5mm metal
that means for 2m long, it will be a really heavy machine
is that picture a rack drive ?
so, i can calculate loads and leadscrews myself. choosing motors, drivers, then i try to choose a breakout board. what is it?
ilya1: say you decide for a gecko as the driver
alex_joni: metal, and its shape could bear it
alex_joni: i didn't read about that gecko yet
lets say you decide to buy something like this: http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14461
this would be a breakout board for geckos: http://www.pmdx.com/Images/PMDX-132.jpg
it hadn't loaded yet
this thing divides signals from parallel port to steppers?
alex_joni: thx, that gudel stuff is nice
ilya1: yes, but also does other things
[19:58:19] <alex_joni> http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-132
oh, let's wait a minute, i have only 3 Kbps
ways to connect, isolation, some controls, and probably something else
and now it spins steppers, right?
but it really depends how big motors you need
there are also packages to be found on google
OK, thanks, I'll try to create a memorandum with this all
something like this: http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA34Package.html
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-07-25.txt
packages of what?
what is shiny at left up corner? (http://www.kelinginc.net/sitebuilder/images/NEMA34Package-375x292.jpg)
A power supplier?
so, it turns on power when I and turns off when O, does it?
and good transformator with enough power and probably few coolers
the computer asks for the power to turn on. the breakout insulates the tiny computer request from the big power supply ( and makes it easier to connect), the breakout connects to the driver, the driver switches the big power from the supply to the motor.
tom3p: GUEDEL has very nice, but also very expensive components :)
ok, will load some books from www.listlib.narod.ru as those with formulas related to metal cutting (my skilled speciality), create some documents with LYX, creating an offer and trying to be employed despite the crisis
alex_joni: i'm drooling... how expensive? any examples?
a few k for one axis iirc
tom3p: and the word `breakout', itself, means turning on and off the power when it's needed
tom3p: it's a swiss company
oh i forgot the mandatory markup for 'made in switzerland' ;)
ilya1: no .. breakout comes from the fact that you only connect one cable from PC to that board, the board splits the signals up, and then you gave different cables from that board to the drivers
tube is for rigidity within that square profile
ilya1: that is not an axis to cut metal with
it may be ok for wood, aluminum and plastics
it's probably not strong enough for milling 5mm of steel
cutting with a water jet then, heh
that's no problem
even plasma or oxy-fuel
as you don't have high cutting forces
cutting forces should be determined. For a round instrument, i'll have found it not in a very first book ...
there can be another construction.
well, screws, right?
ball screw is something new for me. I didn't imagine it before.
Though, I usually imagined cars. ladies... houses.
there can be a rail, carriage with stepper, hollow motor and a ball screw. Bridge would have the same.
screw can be made of a suitable pipe with thick walls, 5 MPa or so for sliding contacts for usual carbon steel
no rail, just two pipes, another two pipes and a spindle. It should be in a natural manner. It's easy to remember.
Can you also call any Machine Operator's Manual for particular machines, with tables D ~ Speed?
any good machinist's manual
what does D ~ Speed mean
diameter ~ speed or even forces, although http://www.listlib.narod.ru/mashstroy/aGranovsky.htm
seems offers such formulae
* ilya1 lies and relaxes few minutes.
if you're looking for inches, RPM = SFM * 12 / (D * pi)
[20:59:17] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/01192416516
yay, step/dir driven servo spindle up and running
but 1024 steps per revolution makes for a nasty frequency at max rpm, i'll have to set a prescaler in the drive..