[01:39:43] <Jymmm> http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/15/quadrillion.dollar.glitch/index.html
I was playing around with that 15" touch screen eee pc. Not bad at all. very responsive, I was even able to move the cursor using a piece of paper instead of my finger.
I placed a card on the sceen and was able to move the cursor too, so it could be covered n a thin layer for shop use.
we got the limit switch prblem solved, we had to isolate the limit switches with relays in order to get them to work with our stg card
no explination why it worked in emc1
now we want to get the index bit working with our encoders
what do we look for in hal scope or whatever, to see the index bit as the encoder goes by it?
you can't directly see it under normal circumstances
in fact, I think with the STG card, you can't directly see it at all
what you can do to test it is to disconnect the encoder "index-enable" pin from the motion controller and manually set that pin to 1
if you then move the motor (by hand or via a slow MDI/jog move), you should see the position output slowly ramp up (or down), and then it will suddenly jump to zero, in the same serov period as the index-enable gets set to 0
the index-enable getting set to 0 is the indication that the hardware saw the index pulse and that the driver noticed it
we are not seeing the index pulse, across the entire scale (they are every 2 inches across the 18" scale)
we are not sure what the index pin is on the stg
can you see it with a physical meter/scope?
I don't know where to connect it either
we will check with our o scope..
still unsure how the stg gets the info
there's got to be an index input pin on the card, probably somewhere close to the A and B encoder inputs
probably called C, Z, or I
tomp is now known as tom3p
hang on let me get the stg manual..
SWPadnos: You forgot abc..xyz =)
SWPadnos: I picked up one of each 8gig + 24 10/100
but can't find any rack mont screws, it 2 stores too
they've got to be some standard thread
I don't know which one, but I'm sure it's standard
thread yes, head no
1-/32 3/4"long WIDE head
they're just wide pan-head screws
well hd/lowes dont carry them
they don't carry a lot of fasteners
and forget about metric
have to hit MR Metric for those
philips, slotted, or tamper-resistant?
and would you prefer stainless or is zinc or oxide-coated OK?
MrMetric has EVERYTHING metric
10-32 isn't metric
anything that doesn't strip the head
let me know if they have a 19x1.0mm tap next time you're there :)
(don't buy it though, I finally found one online)
[02:00:33] <Jymmm> http://www.mrmetric.com/
[02:00:44] <SWPadnos> http://www.mcmaster.com/#91770a831/
$12 + $50 shipping =)
shipping will be $3 or so, max
there may be a minimum order fee though, so get me a J445 while you're at it ;)
yeah, they're quite reasonable
and they have several warehouses and ship from the closest that has the item in stock
oh right. they don't carry it
the flex collet I was talking about earlier ($65)
sed_, it looks like index 1 is P3-20 (+ side) and P3-30 (- side)
with similar markings for the others (I#- and I#+, where # is the encoder number from 0 to 7)
yes they are hooked up to those pins, we were reading the the stg manual there is some bit that needs to be set to turn index on
that should be done by the driver
if you use halcmd show, you should see encoder index-enable pins
(like stg.0.encoder.00-index-enable or similar)
oh hmm. those are listed as "todo" in the comments
that would explain much, thanks
ah. luckily the comment is wrong
the pin does exist in the code :)
some of SWPadnos's advice was wrong. Do NOT poke index-enable while EMC is running and controlling the index. A position reset when EMC isn't expecting it will cause a serious runaway.
oh - good point
manually turning the motor while EMC is in machine off would still work though
when the homing process asks for index, it expects the reset and does the right thing
yes that is exactly what you want to do
we just killed the machine we have to figure out what file we fubard..
may I suggest cvs or git for keeping track of changes you make to config files? :)
er, "while EMC is running and controlling the _axis_" is what I meant above
hmm. the STG sample config should probably use -1 on line 11 (where it adds the write function)
will an accelerometer tell me usefull info when the velocity change is from 1"/min to 2"/min in 200mS? (i'm not sure that such devices work at such low values)
with loads of filtering, maybe
iffy huh? I'm trying to detect when an edm breaks thru one surface, to stop it before it hits a rear wall only .087" away (all blind )
and there's actually back pressure before the break-through?
yes but the volume is miniscule with a .009 dia hole and <100 psi
a strain gauge may be just about as useful as an accelerometer
so, the pressure diff is... negligible, the central hole in the tube electrode governs the pressure
why the accel then?
accells because it begins cutting air till the back wall is hit & buyer doesnt like back wall strike on their turbines
there's a burst of speed just before the crash ;)
ok - that's why I asked about back pressure - I figured there was some resistance to motion, and for EDM that didn't make much sense :)
how might a strain gauge work here?
look at the PID output - if it drops (relatively) sharply, you've just broken through
measuring applied force to the cutting "head"
if you're actually using EMC on this, you can also be tricky and look at the difference between commanded and actual position, and see if the delta position from last cycle to this cycle is much greater than that
you just need to be clever about where you put the difference calcs in the thread execution order
yeah, i began divying the user's command into .005" chucks & watching how long each took
using a fiinite step size allowed the time calc to be fast
oh - I'd just look at actual_pos-last_pos relative to cmd-pos-actual_pos
after the motion controller has run, so cmd-pos is the expected "next_pos"
oh, and maybe gate the result with an aux output (set with M6x or M5x or something) - a "be careful" output
haha, yes, the operators now stare at a dro, with a finger over a 'stop' button. i want to automate it.
I'd assume that motion is quite smooth for a while before the break-through?
guys if it shows up in halscope did it come from emc?
i just opened the head covers and showed them the leadscrew coupling... watch that, when it spins, hit the button, while it creeps, dont worry
or does it track the hardware that emc2 is controlling
renesis, that depends on what "it" is
still depends on what you're looking at
well anyway, that weirsd oscillation shows up in halscope
I must have missed something
ive been getting these weird stepper oscillations
step & dir are outputs, i'd guess they came from emc. if 'it' was an input, emc isnt the cause, only an observer
well it came from emc or halscope reads hardware registers and theres some like catostrophic emi on my mobo
if you've hooked up inputs on the parport to some signal you've called step & dir, then emc is again an observer
no these are outputs for stepgen
ok. if you're looking at step and dir from stepgen, then that is from emc
you should also look at the position input, to be sure that the position command isn't wobbling
like, my steppers will oscillate typewriter style, hopping forward a couple steps at a time, maybe 8-10 total steps
always regular intervals like chirping, then itll return to original position every step all at once
look at the position command into stepgen
it did it for 10min while i was paused during a test cycle, and the negative signs flashed in axis coordinate display while X and Y were zero'd
like it was hopping from -0.0000 to 0.0000
swpadnos: k next time it happens
that could be, but I'd be surprised if stepgen would ever move more than one step back and forth
does this stepper setup have any position feedback?
yeah the bug in changelog i read is just one step
no its open loop
what version of EMC2?
and i dont think i have any feedback config stuff
i went to the website (maybe the wiki?) to download the new script for ubuntu
i ran it and it looked like it checked a bunch of stuff online and told me i was up to date
it won't work if you already have emc2 repositories in your sources.list
you need to follow the other instructions to change the repos to point to 2.3 instead of 2.2
thats in /etc, i should remove emc servers?
no. change the two locations where it says "emc2.2" to say "emc2.3"
there will be a few other changes you need to make in your ini files, detailed on the wiki
[02:46:09] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.3
then follow these: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
hey can halscope do analog stuff?
if you have hardware with analog inputs, yes
but it can only sample at the fastest thread rate - it won't download a buffer fron a high speed capture card and show it to you
the only immediate application im thinking of is temp related
prob dont need more than 100Hz
oh sure. if you have a card that can read the sensor, and there's a HAL driver for it (not too likely - there aren't many supported options for analog input), then you can look at it with halscope
i think jepler? did some analog with an arduino
yep. and STG has analog input as well
plus my exceedingly expensive add-ons for the Mesa cards :)
[02:57:03] <tom3p> http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294
its user space but that may be ok
got emc working, but both our o-scopes are dead.....
emc, scope, scoep - pick any two :)
or pick any one, as the case may be
sed_: whats wrong with your scopes?
i have a tek 2230 its like, old =(
one turned on, then display went black
europeans would say 'ko' , i never understood that one
the other one has display but probe wont work...
Heh went to the drag strip last night
somebody had a van with a supercharged V8 in it
must have been his first night with it
by his last run he was laying down a 10.5
jepler: do you have enlarged photos of that spindle you got? I'm iterested in seeing how it locks the tooling in.
[03:22:23] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sys/1272247599.html
how come in the stg.ini we can use ROTORY for our rotory 4th axis???
for type of axis
Maybe it should be ROTARY?
my puter is not happy with me :-< there be something hinkey with the disk system
I'm getting "interface errors", and it can't write to disk any more
oh well its rebooted see if that fixes it
not yet lol too busy
its not a file system problem, something in the hardware is stuffing up
hear ya, recently had to replace a mb that rebooted whenever the hell it felt like it
sucky, probably the caps on it
its spelled correctly in the ini file.. it was a comment out example... heh
huh, don't know then...
okay i put 2.3.2 i think the problem is gone
can someone tell me if status,Err is something i need to fix ? http://pastebin.com/d4533b020
piasdom: status=Err is something you need to fix
but in this case there is no status=Err
status is 'ii' which means installed
so status,Err is not the same as status=err ?
the first 3 lines in your pastebin are simply for reference, what status a package could have
where did you see "status,Err" ?
third line at end
piasdom: that's only reference
alex_joni;i answered before i saw your reply about the first three lines....thanks again
Hi all, good news. I have started testing the 5 axis machine with and without kinematics. I think I can get both to work now. At least it looks right on the screen and when cutting in air.
The bad news is that when I am cutting for real, twice already, the machine will turn itself off in the middle of the cut.
I don't know what trips it off. The software start button is in the off position, and it stops in the middle of the GCode. And both times it stops around the same time. I didn't see at which line it stop the first time. I watched it stop the second time.
on the estop switch?
more shielding of the wire then.
normally open or closed? and if open what size pull up
make sure the shield is only connected at one end of the cable (the "source" end)
I think it is normally open, and with a 10K pull up.
NO is bad for estop
gound loops being another problem SWPadnos is mentioning
it should be NC, so that a broken wire will estop the machine
and a 300 ohms to pull it up
are any mesasges shown when the machine stops?
I will double check it then. because another person is wired that for me.
limit switches will also stop the program, but should show a message (I don't think that estop shows a message)
there is no estop message on the screen. so I was puzzled.
I don't think estop prints a message, so unfortunately that doesn't tell us much
limit switch trip will produce a message. but that wasn't the case.
right, estop doesn't produce a message on the screen.
let's go with the electrical noise... and NC for estop.
let me attack that first.
because I do suspect it is the estop switch
when you're cutting air, do you run the spindle?
ah. when I cut in air, it was fine. when I cut for real, it stops
and I suspect that's where the noise comes from.
is there some nice visualsetup for emc thats optimal for touchscreens?
I'm trying to confirm that the only difference between cuttin air and not cutting air is that the workpiece is in the vise (or whatever) - so spindle and servo loads are the only difference
frallzor, no, not really
a touchscreen-friendly UI has been discussed a bit, but never actually made AFAIK
I just wanted to get a 2nd opinion on this. because I replaced the older Dual PIII machien with this new single CPU P4. and it is my first time cutting for real... I just hope it wasn't somethign like the screensaver or something.
oh crap. I have to leave. bbl
right, and when I have the spindle on, it seems to trip.
vfd electrical noise
I am so very very very close. :)
thanks. back later tomorrow.
frallzor, I heard the tk version of the control has been used with a touch screen
what is the tk version?
I have the modded version somewhere
nice thnx, care to tell what to do with it too? :)
no, I have not had time to play
as tkemc but upped to 5 axis and is used on a touch screen if Im correct
I dont even know how to get the tkemc =)
edit some ini I guess but I dont know squat about linux and finding =)
can you connect a pin from a realtime component to a pin from a userspace component?
frallor: still there ?
mozmck_work: yes definitely. consider halui's outputs (userspace) hooked to a mesa card's pins to control some indicator lights
ok. I figured but thought I'd ask. A guy on the linuxcnc forum needs a component to switch relays via serial port.
yep if it's not timing-critical that can be done entirely in userspace
I think I can write him one pretty quickly.
there is a nice python serial library
and there is a nice python hal interface!
yes, I've seen that! the serial interface is just called serial right?
s = serial.Serial("/dev/ttyUSB0", 9600, rtscts=0)
^ from a little program I use
yeah, I saw something like that in another file
in ubuntu the package is python-serial
ok. if I can get a little time I'll try and write it.
piasdom im here now =)
frallzor:do you know where your emc2 directory is located ? (mine is in my home dir)
i know where 2 are
one is just setting and one is something more it seems
what about it?
frallzor:does one have config folder ?
hold 1 sec, logging in =)
configs folder with setups in
look for the ini file
hmm not the right one then
no inis, just stepconfs
or its right?
ah nm, found it
think it needs to be ini file
display changed to tkemc?
in there is a list (axis,mini,tkemc)
take the # off the one you want
and add it to the one that didn't have one
no commented things like that
just a Dispelay = axis that is the closest
change that to tkemc?
under that type display = tkemc
or you can change the one you have
did it your way
start emc...if that is the correct file then tkemc will start
but i left axis in the ini
comment out the first display line
can you use stepconf and select the file ?
[18:19:09] <frallzor> http://pastebin.ca/1497217
what about this
supposedly modded for this purpose
does tk work ?
I assume its some file I need to paste it into
seems to be working
correctly ? :):)
how to tell? :P
run your machine and measure distances
not up and running yet =)
see if all axis work
just doing what I can electronicswise
well you got tk
It looks like that pastebin is tkemc. Is it one someone modified and pasted for you?
that ini file is not the one i'm use to
axis seems to be working properly
frallzor: select the whole thing from the box at the bottom that says "Update Paste Below"
then copy it to your text editor and save it as "tkemc"
do you have an ini file that looks like this ? http://pastebin.ca/1497329
I'm not sure offhand where this file should go, but you'll need to make it executable and replace your current tkemc with this one.
frallzor;can you use stepconf ?
in stepconf select that file
im getting overwhelmed now :P
piasdom: you can select any file for the display?
I dont know what to do now :P which file
mozmck: the file i want him to select is an ini file...not for display
stepconffile for my stuff?
do you remember the file name ?
you are talking about the stepconf right?
its open now
in stepconf you get a choice of files that are in the emc dir
i opened the stepconf for my stuff
do you see the file ?
then go thru stepconf
I have a stepconf configured =)
you'll have to select "edit existing file"
ah the advanced configuration components options
what to select? =)
that's up to you and the machine ya'll get
I know how to setup those things
where did you find the ini in the pastebin you linked?
doing stepconf killed tk in my file
then you selected a different file then you edited
stepconf will overwrite any ini file you edit
yes so I have to redo it again then
add the tkemc
go see if tk is still
as they say in here...if it works-don't fix it :)
you'll just have to wait for the machine
are you the swede btw? =P
nah i think this tkemc look will work ok on touchscreen as it is =)
what version of emc do you have?
i don't use tk so i'm not familar /w it
let me look at mine brb
oh ya, didn't like it because i have to have too many win opened :)
do you NEED to use tk for the touchscreen ?
ppl seem to prefer tk for that use
so ill try this =)
you'll need to run stepconf again to match your machine
just remember to change ini
ah will finally get a nice housing for my electronics tomorrow, great
Spida_ is now known as Spida
anyone know a nice site with some nice info about how to choose the best spindle speed and match a nice feed
frallzor, sandvik docs (pdfs)
ahh good old sandvik
what kind of tooling?
think its all carbide
it's important to know for sure
modern tooling has speed and feed data in the catalog
many end mills are not carbide
4 hss 4 carbide it seems
cutting what material?
cibatool and aluminium
you can cut aluminum with HSS up to about 300 sfm with coolant
200 is more common
im swedish :P
with carbide, double or triple the speed
i don't want to be a big stick in the mud, but you can go way faster than that in aluminum
frallzor: the answers vary :-)
with carbide, in aluminum, the speed is only limited by the machine
you should experiment
yeah with carbide, most machines just run out of spindle speed unless the tool is very big
mostly so it doesnt break my mills
i usually keep things at 600-700 sfm in aluminum with HSS
and for carbide, i top the machine out no matter what the tool is
what size of tools?
frallzor: what's your max spindle speed?
you'll be fine at 6000 rpm.
those tools are tiny. crank it all the way up and don't worry
you have flood coolant I hope
... be happy
and 2 flute end mills I hope
when I do cut I have bottle ready for it =)
no fancy auto-coolant =)
yup 2 flute
I bet you need more than an occasional squirt if you're doing 400 sfm (6mm cutter at 6000 rpm)
dry is fine
I dont think so, I played around with it manually when I got it, nothing odd when I cut 5mm except that I milled too much at a time
no issues that had to do with the lack of coolant afaik
coolant in aluminum comes into play when you're slotting, for chip clearance, and for things like spinning a 5" facemill at 8000 rpm
the boiling coolant keeps the chip from welding up
but you can do it dry with a zrn coating, or with a polished insert/endmill
hm, I'd defentively use air..
frallzor: btw, dormer had nice cutting data in their "selector" program
dormer is nice, some of my mills are dormer =)
im not so extremely happy with their hss endmills, they dont seem to last for me long enonugh
though, im still trying to work out if I should get rid of coolant and use air instead..
hilsch vortex tube!
bill2or3: I have a cad drawing of the orfice and stuff.. somewhere :)
i wouldn't get rid of coolant, just add air
you can get micro cracks if the coolant misses
my machine isnt enclosed and it's a huge f-mess
then yeah, air i guess.
hilsch vortex tube would be even better..
I think that I re-cut chips and that breaks my edges
I end up with spraying like 3 meters from the machine with flood coolant on, if I want to get rid of chips
yeah, you need a coolant deluge if you're trying to clear chips on a vertical mill
maybe I should flip the head around and flip the axes around :]
just kidding though, a hilsch vortex tube would be optimal
you wouldn't have a chip problem if you did that!
* anonimasu draws up a hilsch vortex tube
[22:11:25] <anonimasu> http://www.visi.com/~darus/hilsch/
tom1 is now known as tom3p
anonimasu: whats the benefit of using a vortex tube (cool device, btw)? getting more cooling capacity due to colder air?
blowing the chips out and keeping part temp down
while not providing the same brutal thermal shock coolant does
it does not, however, change the temperature of the cut at the tool tip
so why not just have an air nozzle?
oh, keeping part temperature down
just plain air blast will cover 85% of what a vortex tube does
the problem with removing coolant entirely is that heavy roughing tools tend to be made of tough, but heat sensitive materials
so coolant is necssary for those
unless the machine is too light, in which case who cares, i suppose
the air based coolers are cool ;) did you ever notice you can blow hot or cold air at will? the air at hi prsr thru pursed lips is cooller than the air with your mouth open. its the pressure drop (robert palmer)
even cooler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUxWmDgSXP4
pressure drop by the specials