SWPadnos: LOL that's pretty funny,... you tell me to stop eating beans and then you say ... oh look dinner! LOL
define attrition: wearing or grinding down by friction ???
sorrow for sin arising from fear of damnation
Ok, I bought a new 20" box fan yesterday. It said it was 3885 CFM. But it doesn't feel like it's as strong as another 2-" box fan that I have. Now, I know that there's CFM, which is just volume of air being moved, But in respect to cooling, does pressure have a significant factor too? I would *think* so (like a good patton 'whole house' fan), but I dont know what that is or would be. Any ideas on how to test?
I was talking to a coworker today who mentioned that he wanted to retrofit a machine with MACH3. So I never really condidered MAC3 because I like the open source and the cool comunity of developers but, Dare I ask? What things does EMC2 do that MACH3 dosn't?
true closed loop - rigid tapping - spring fresh scent
cuts usable threads on a lathe
kinematics machines (5 axis etc)
keeps working even if microsoft doesn't like it or care
SWPadnos: has a really good true one that mach just hides
realtime performance that always gives a usable pulse train (assuming steppers)
jog wheels that feel like they are hooked right to the machine (paraphrased quote from the list)
for a real servo machine with analog amps, there's no comparison - mach just can't do it
cradek: Hey, what are you wrapping in plastic?
for simple xyz stepper machines they're probably more closely matched
Jymmm: my lathe's splash guard
cradek: Ah, ok.... hows it coming?
progress is 0%
too many other things going on
it only take a few minutes
ok maybe an hour
I have to figure out what I need, get it, install it
I'll do it one of these days
famous last words
things to fix, parts to make, day job, ...
cradek: till the day you die... no excuse!
cradek: is your website down?
the more things I haven't gotten done when I die, the more I win
skunkworks: yes, on and off - that's one thing I'm working on
cradek: Well, do oyu have somethng to form it on?
"things to fix" category
works for me.. : )
Jymmm: the lathe shield frame thingy itself
cradek: screw the honeydew list
cradek: Oh, so you actually have a full frame with cross members?
sorta - it's a sliding deal
let me see if I can find a photo somewhere
can you remove it ?
i got no more "honeydewlist"
[01:29:12] <cradek> http://www.cnccontrolsolutions.com/optomizedpictures/HNC205.jpg
I think this is the same machine
I'm sure it is removable somehow
cradek: got any 1/4" x 1 or 2" slats?
where are you? you could come do it :-)
heh - cool.
cradek: sure, no problem.... I'll bring my router for you to mill the new parts, and I'mm form your shield
what does it need?
cradek: I guess you don't have a strip heater, huh?
cradek: Since you already have a form fold to work with.... a strip heater seems easiest to have uniform heat
cradek: But I think it's a two man job.... one to hold the heater, the other to bend and hold the sheet as it softens
Oh this is so wrong... http://www.tapplastics.com/info/video_detail.php?vid=6&format=windowsmedia&
The ground that is
I did my best to convert the emc.ini from emc1 to the stg.ini in emc2, I got the software up and not crashing, how do I work with HAL at this point?
what are you trying to do?
upgrage from emc1 to 2
I installed emc2 and chose my stg card and edited the stg.ini to be like the emc.ini to the best of my ability
the stg.ini file took most every setting the emc.ini had with the exception of a few that didt exist
and one or 2 that the syntax had changed
there are several additional features
and some common things have changed, like INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE
I skiped over what wasnt familiar and left it default
unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the STG configs or hardware
INPUT_SCALE = 50800
that was emc1
I can help with HAL setup, but you have to know what you want to do :)
ok, that's probably still supposed to be the same
Ill give it a shot, what the first step?
OUTPUT_SCALE = 1.000 0.000
the first step would be to tell me what it is you're trying to do ;)
output scale on emc2 was just 1.000
didnt like the second set of numbers
yep, there's no offset in emc2 - that's done differently
at this point set up hal I guess
the sofware runs, I debuged the stg.ini and thats where Im at
I have re-installed emc1 on the other driver several times, and all I have needed is the emc.ini
I guess with hal that is differant
well - as I said, I don't know your hardware at all (either the STG or what you have connected to it), so I don't know how the config has to change ...
yes, it's somewhat different
there's more control over what the I/Os do and where they connect
the last section of the emc.ini is not in the stg.ini
all the IO indexes?
section for main IO controller parameters
right, that's all done in HAL
is the old info useful in setting up hal?
hmmm. I'm sure it is, but I'm not sure exactly how. I don't know if the old index numbers translate to the same io numbers in HAL
I sure hope so, since that would make it a lot easier :)
the old info will tell you how you had things connected (but you'll have to know what those numbers meant in EMC1)
emc1 had HAL ?
I thought that was what all the commotion was about?
the IO connections are in the file stg_io.hal
emc2+hal will almost certainly allow you do do any connections that emc1 could do, but the approach is different
can I paste in a pm... about 15 lines...
SWPadnos: (encore) LOL that's pretty funny,... you tell me to stop eating beans and then you say ... oh look dinner! LOL
heh, yeah - that was a good one (two) huh? :)
15 lines of what? emc1 config info for STG? I certainly won't know what that means
damn... still stinks in here
[02:19:50] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/
BTW, the best way to paste such stuff is something like pastebin.ca, then post the URL here
[02:19:57] <Jymmm> http://codepa.org
[02:20:04] <Jymmm> http://codepad.org
SWPadnos: How can you read anything on pastebin with the color pallete they use?
I have a CRT
SWPadnos: So do I
I'm not blind
Neither am I
[02:21:16] <sed_> http://pastebin.ca/1480272
I studied Latin
SWPadnos: I speak Swahili - top that biotch!
sed_, I don't know which polarity means normal and which is inverted
Jymmm, I just watched Star Trek (TOS) too, top that!
SWPadnos: I'm watching Ice Age 3
SWPadnos: you know, the one that's being released TOMORROW
to a theater near you
sed_, for each physical input pin, there are two "HAL pins" you can use. one is normal, the other is inverted (called, not coincidentally, <the pin name> and <the pin name>-invert)
so is settuip hal just editing the stg_io.hal ?
yeah, for the most part
you may have to think about it a bit if you have a complex E-Stop system or you use classicladder
(that was available in EMC1, wasn't it?)
dont know, didnt set up emc1
I will get the person that built the machine and hack at that file
it looks fairly straight forward
is that all?
it should be, but it depends on how customized the EMC1 install was
hopefully they didn't write any custom software or anything :)
read the HAL manual so you can see how to work with HAL (halcmd for messing with the state of things, halmeter and halscope for testing and monitoring changes ...)
SWPadnos: Oh, I thought you used pastebin.com - that one is icky
no, .ca seems faster and has better uptime
SWPadnos: codepad.org doens't have the sidebar - nicer when not full screen
and it will actually execute code
sed_, I don't know how the MIN and MAX VOLTS_PER_RPM translate into EMC2
the way it should probably be done is to make the output scale such that applying a 1 (the number one, that is) to the DAC pin in HAL results in 1 IPS (or mm/s) velocity on the motors
oh hmmm. that EMCIO section uses a parallel port for I/O
any more recent opinions on the D945GCLF2 Atom 330 Intel 945GC Mini ITX Motherboard for EMC?
the venerable Goal 3 seems to finally be gone off of Newegg
and we had a report of it not working so well earlier today
what usb issues?
devices powering up for a few seconds then dying
sounds like it, but I don't know
no, probably not
geo01005 I think
maybe jmkasunich could confirm
doens't he have one?
he doesn't have a GOAL3
that's me and skunkworks
JMK has the atom
wth is a goal 3?
[02:52:22] <Jymmm> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359
it's an ECS cheapo motherboard
oh, fsck emc
yes, the D945GCLF2 is the one jmkasunich and I have, and maybe even skunkworks too
are you using it with emc?
not at the moment
SWPadnos: 6" x 6" ?
it's pretty small
not small enough to fit in our robots :(
tiny by computer standards, huge by microcontroller standards
With the S-Video , could be a nice TVPC
on board serail header?
it's got an actual serial port too
plus a header-based one
cool bean... good for IR
hmmm. nope, looks like only one
atom 330 = dual?
dual 1.6 GHz I think
dman max ram 2GB
4 rear and 4 onboard USB
yep. well aware of the USB specs ;)
ever find a nice case?
for some values of nice, yes
but my nice case wouldn't be so great for a HTPC
no CD-ROM bay
home theater PC
I never said HT, I said TV
ok, whatever you want
no hdmi on it, just s-video
I figured something attached to a TV should probably play discs in addition to whatever else
hdmi would be nice
I said HT, not HD
netyflix, shut your pie hole
netyflix ok over vga?
vga to hdmi?
my tv has vga
no, new samsung 46"
set up this computer on there
thn you dont nee svideo
i need a one handed kybd
Jymmm: do you watch movies on netflix over internet?
on the tv
I now have DTV on the lan now too
I think I could ruin my life with that service :)
you can pause the movie and even watxh on another computer any time
sounds good, we have blockbuster's netflix clone
it even remembers where you were and asks if you want to continue where you left off or start from the beginning
fsck blockbuster POS
slow ass bastidges
I agree, plus I want to watch on the internet
You'll need either their $100 STB, or a PC/Mac
no linux support
nvm then :)
just install XP as a VM
that's actually how they told MAc users to watch before it was supported directly
eric_unterhause1: FWIW... I've been on the hospital's wifi and watched movies.
good to know, can patients do that?
Many hospitals have free wifi
doctors are still never on time =)
eric_unterhause1: I guess if the patients are conscious and not blind or deaf =)
SWPadnos, Jymmm http://ncix.com/products/?sku=28232&vpn=MI-100&manufacture=Apex
Computer Technology box I used with an atom board
room for 1 5" device(DVD), 1 3.5" device(HD)
Sad that it's $10 less than the mobo and cpu
that link is Cdn$
includes power supply so its not bad, but it is tiny about like a shoe box.. mostly empty
internal PS ?
yes.. a 250w
mounts above the cpu board in the back of the case
ok, $20 more than the mobo.cpu =)
it's a shoeboc
does the optical drive cover spring loaded?
[04:57:27] <LawrenceG> http://ncix.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=33303
was the board.... you can scale to US prices
yes... it flips down when the tray comes out
and a little door opens on the RHS that has audio and 2 USB connections
the rest is on the back on the cpu card
[04:59:48] <Jymmm> http://www.ncixus.com/products/23679/DM-317/Apex%20Computer%20Technology/
ncix has a fathers day special on the box, so I built it up for the neighbours
[05:01:30] <LawrenceG> http://www.ncixus.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=33303
$78US vs $95Cdn
LawrenceG: cool =)
I did run the latency test on it before I gave it away.... just under 20us
for how long?
I think jmkasunich did too
about 20 minutes of bashing on it... it seems very responsive, I couldnt really tell it was only a 1.6ghz processor
much better than a 3ghz P4 my wife is using with ubuntu
the atom looks like a winner... very well integrated and low power
yeah, I like my netbook too
ubuntu 9.04 just installed and ran, no driver fights at all... figuring out how to get the jre plugin into the browser took the most head scratching until I found the right instructions
oh ya... getting skype to work (finding the right audio devices) was also a PITA
a lot of time talking to the test call lady.... can ya hear me now????
Jymmm, goodnight... off to bed
dmess: Sounds like you got a divorce or something?
micges1 is now known as micges_plasma
archivist ebay 270413345930 - just down the road for me, although i think my missus would bury me under it!
oo worth it :)
we went to a couple of dealers on monday (boss looking for a manual Hardinge)
archivist: is your boss staying in business?
he want to work from home
sorta retiring, useless really
I wonder if he read the logs :)
he will surely after we bash.org it ;)
but it sure leaves me in an awkward position
pjm, looks like he wants offers for the bits, sham auction
but still make an offer and see if er indoors will allow you to live
hahh probably unlikely, she moans like a bloody drain about my 'crap' as it is
a man has to have his hobbies :)
yeah exactly, she thinks she is my #1 hobby!
certainly is the most expensive
anyway, i should probably get one of the MESA cards next for my machine, its reaching the limits of the parport speed
I need to go that way soon
pjm: how is the machine running?
just jacket up the column yesterday
need to add XY travel next
skunkworks everything is almost perfect.... just need faster inputs for spindle encoder
plus it might be nice to hand off step generation to the 7i43 card
i need to treat the machine to some new X / Y leadscrews also, just to get rid of the last amounts of slop
as i did notice a small error the other day after touching off, once u set the new touch off position, the motor seems to turn by the backlash amount
but i need to re-test this to make sure it wasnt user error on my part
screw and rails for XY for me, slop and travel limits
Im still having to move the rotaries around the table to get jobs to fit
btw is there a reasonably priced outlet in uk for small (<M3) taps?
skunkworks the rigid tapping is working perfectly, not broken a tap yet
even tho i'm holding them in a chuck!!!
(crappy i know)
pjm: I go with 'what ever works'
i will get around to using proper collets
but until i have a tool length detector etc, i just put up with what i havea
Im using cheapo morse taper collets at the moment
ah the ones that go in the taper then directly clamp the tool, yeah i looked at those on ebay, thougth about getting a metric set
ah ok i will look
buggers claim certain threads in them but Im forever changing 10mm to whit to clamp them
chronos sell on fleabay at about the same price
I got some of my collets from are eurotrade and some are english sizes
tool length and changing is a pain !
know anything about lathe threading?
i.e. if you're in diameter mode (rather than radius), does it affect the i, j, or k values (double them)?
Sorry - no :) chris would be the one to ask I think
I bet a few minutes with a sim config could tell you
or a dti on the tool post cutting air
mshaver: do the docs not say?
mmmm maybe they don't
mshaver: I think this program shows that I is the same regardless of G7/G8: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/arc-diameter.ngc
SWPadnos: yes, but I was hoping someone would "just know"
archivist: no machine here
oh. well of course someone does, but he's (they're) not here :)
back in a bit
[14:38:30] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlD_6p1aV5E
that's a lot of chips considering the apparent lack of motion of the cutter/workpiece
* BJT-Work can't wait for the ups guy to get here with my FX 1800 tomorrow this video card sucks
are you supposed to be on irc at work? Hmmm? ;)
mozmck_work: conviced your boss to go emc?
to a degree, yes.
he wants to get all our stuff working with it as we get time
yeah, I've got my router table at home running emc2 2.3.1 now and am cutting out banjo rim pieces with it.
mozmck_work: do you play banjo?
I will someday after I finish mastering (hahaha) all the other things I already play
cradek: yes, since I was about 13 (20 years ago!)
I play guitar some, and piano
they have a neat sound
yep, especially good ones.
I play guitar/piano too, and maybe fiddle (actually trained in classical violin) - I don't know fiddle technique but would like to learn it.
I like bluegrass/folk more than classical nowadays.
a friend plays mandolin some - we play together often
neat! I like classical and bluegrass. my brothers play mandolin and guitar and fiddle.
someday before long I hope to finish building a couple of mandolins I started
steve martin was on the prarie home companion last weekend playing the banjo - he is really good.
maybe I will let you know when it's time for me to buy a banjo :-)
yes he is
:-) I could probably set you up if I have time. it's an evening and weekend thing nowadays
used to be full time
I let my website go because I don't have time to take on any new work right now.
skunkworks_: he seems good but does he play anything other than foggy mountain breakdown?
I think he used to play professionaly a long time ago
he has a new cd out.. Other than that - I don't know
have you heard Bela Fleck playing classical on the banjo? amazing stuff...
must not watch youtube videos all day at work...
[15:56:21] <skunkworks_> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/www_publicradio/tools/media_player/popup.php?name=phc/2009/06/27/phc_20090627_64&starttime=00:29:15.0&endtime=00:32:45.0
:) I have the cd at home - Perpetual Motion. I better get off and concentrate on programming for now.
heh - I just thought of something. Our big gantry is just a little out of square. I should just fix that in emc.
but then you need to understand the evil maths
I had contemplated that for my 5 axis too....but maffs....
and properly quantifying the errors
yeah measuring it...
drill and bore four holes, measure the diagonals?
I can do some of the measurements but the building is not stable enough
if it's perfectly out of square I think you may only need that measurement
four holes that are supposedly in a square, I mean
I have one of the books on machine measurement and I think the are more errors than 4 holes would show
archivist: I'm not surprised :-)
there are more errors, but if you're pretending it's a constant slope, two holes will get it
otherwise you need to employ shenanigans
er, four holes
or milling a square.
which can be easier to measure
that may test xy but I know my column and spindle are out
yeah there are many unsquares possible
and b to Y etc
you should brainstorm with stuart s
I read his posts often
trying to get it to sink in
very hard without pictures
I put a rotary dti on the A table and went down looking for axis drift, I need to buy a test bar really
but for most I can get away with errors and hide by setting up for the job in hand
are the kins that stuart made available to others?
he posted links iirc
yes, he shares everything related to his EMC projects
I didn't see the links so I didn't know if they were available yet.
see mailing list from him
I have to take the jump to 2.3 soon
what's the difference between emc2 2.2.8 and 2.3 ?
[17:24:46] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
good evening seb.i have the .bit file for spi comunication on 5i20.please have a example of hal file? thenks
motioncontrol: spi support is not in the hostmot2 driver yet
seb_kuzminsky, sick of that question yet ;)
ok . when you thing the development is finisch ?
motioncontrol: no estimate, sorry...
geo01005: heh, heh, hmm, hrrrm ... cough cough
ok thanks no problem i wait
I just got my 5i20 via UPS today, still waiting for the vital systems card.
Could have skipped the vital systems card if we had working SPI in hm2. But oh well, life goes on.
soon, soon. by 2099 at the latest ;-)
hehe sensible date
Oh, I might have my reprap extruder completed by then :)
how do i upgrade to 2.3 ? (it DOES run in hardy?)
see upgrading note as there are some changes that you need to know
thanks archivist and seb_kuzminsky
wow - for 79 dollars mesa has a parallel only 7i43. I never noticed that.
hi all, I need to know if I am going insane. (which is very possible but I need to be sure.)
I ran the sample 5axis demo code on AXIS, but the B axis isn't following the right hand rule.
the rotating axis of the B axis is parallel to the y axis, and the right hand rule is telling me the sample code is rotating the opposit direction. Am I seeing something wrong?
jepler: I have a tracking number :)
hmm .. well there's sure something wrong with the axis plot of 'cone.ngc'
I can't tell my right hand from my left so I can't tell you if it's rotating the wrong way
NewType: it depends whether you think of the tool vector pointing up along the spindle or down toward the work. I don't know which way is "correct". Also, I don't think every machine agrees.
I think it's normal to think of the tool vector pointing up through the spindle (hence normal to the work surface)
(which way is it in the 5axis demo?)
how do I get hal_parport to work with stg_io.hal do I have 2 config file in the stg config folder by those nams or do I add hte parport to the stg_io.hal?
you can do either. you can have multiple hal files. personally I like to have just one because I think it's easier to follow.
so any file .hal will load, so I can have one file in the config folder called skippy.hal?
in the ini file, you list the hal files that should be loaded.
oic, cool so I assume thats the stg.ini
that was weird
I guess I can use /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper-gantry/stepper_parport.hal as an example
I just need it to turn on and off things like coolant that emc1 didnt support with the stg card
once I have it working and tuned I am going to ditch the parell port
cradek: hi! well, it doesn't matter which direction is the cone/tool vector is pointing, right? Right hand rule is still right hand rule.
I am using this convention: http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
<- see figure.
sure it matters
point your thumb up or down - fingers go opposite ways
OK, if that's the case, C is turning the opposite directoin then.
the 5axis sample config is the one comes with AXIS, with the cool 3D picture of a gantry machine.
if it helps, I think it's true that you can configure it any way you want
cradek: but that changes whether the thumb is along + or - of the axis
"point your thumb in the positive direction of an axis"
I'm talking about pointing the thumb along the tool
maybe I'm thinking about it wrong
I make it p as I go along :)
consider B90 C0. does the tool tip point toward -X or +X? the tool vector points the opposite way.
well, I am using figure 1 at http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
I don't see figure numbers
down the old x-
which machine picture is like is your setup?
oh, the upper left one.
the 5 axis gantry router
but the machine is like the lower left?
yep, my machine is the lower left one.
what do you think is the BC orientation of that picture? I think it might be C0 B-45
OH! B+90 C0, it should point -x! Sorry
yes, that picture is C0 B-45.
if you can use tool axis vectors and let the machine sort it out.
but you need a good post that always goes the correct direction to the next point
dmess: I stopped using 5axiskin and fall back on trivalkin.
that can work fine if your cam does pivot length compensation (but you can't use tool lengths - what a pain)
I wasn't able to stop MasterCAM to don
X and Y are different between the cnc-toolkit link and the "5axis" sample config
I wasn't able to stop MasterCAM to not do the tool compensation, so I have to disable the 5axiskin on AXIS
* archivist wonders if I should or should not slavishly follow middle right or carry on calling mine B along X and A on B
fwiw, I disagree with "5Axis Mill"
I think XYZ should rotate with the work
middle left, I have no idea how it should work
it's good these configurations are all possible with emc2 :-)
conventions are only conventions
mine are well mixed :)
NewType: command some X-only moves an d you'll see it
if I use XYZBC geometry and use AXIS's cone direction to configure the machine, then the MasterCAM GCode output would be wrong.
MasterCAM is also using the right hand rule
cradek some machines ive seen have the axes rotating with the work... the operator cant look at the part and tell WTF is gion on
I think "using the right hand rule" is not a sufficient enough description of anything to be useful
NewType: but you could use XYZ-BC or XYZB-C or whatever it would be, and it would be fine?
actually, if I configure my macihne as XYZBC, and ignore the cone, the machine is doing the "correct" orientation.
the cone in axis will be tracing the correct path, but the cone is in a totally wrong direction.
fwiw I had to make this change to have the axis display and vismach display plot the same thing: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commitdiff;h=69ca1cf32c190c83bc20e1cd5f2e39d108b857f8
basically, the cone in axis will be "inside" the part I am machinging, while the actual machine is doing the right thing.
hmmm or is it still wrong?
* jepler scratches his head
* NewType is thinking
MasterCAM is outputting the correct GCode (as far as I can tell).
with trivalkin, I am not doing anything creative, so it should be fine.
fun thing with those diagrams is if A is on B then after 90 degrees its name should change
but you will have an effectively XYZAB machine.
archivist: that depends on where your zeroes are - and interestingly if they are all zero, some don't matter (on XYZBC, when B=0, C doesn't do anything)
on one they show C rotates, so that it points along Y instead of Z sometimes
it's pretty baffling
so, is there a standard solution to X0 Y0 Z0 B90 C0 then?
if I was rotating C mounted on B then I drill a bolt circle
the "canned" and often wrong response is that B is the rotary axis on Y
it isn't that simple, but a lot of machines obey the generic rule.
but as i think some people have mentioned, if you have stacked rotary axes, that can change very quickly if you reorient the axis under it.
I do rotate A along more than one axis
A is the rotary on X, and C is the rotary on Z.
NewType: I don't know that - I think the tool should point along X at B90 C0, but which way? depends which way you think of the tool vector being.
and again, sometimes that goes to hell based on what the tool builder wants the machine to do
because I use a lecel to set 0 A often is set to rotate offset and parallel to z
toastatwork, thats me...
like, there are mills with a C/U axis.
and jig grinders.
and cradek / archivist, doesn't EMC re-orient X/Y/Z to always be along the tool?
I think I wrote the 5axis kinematics so it had the fewest number of "+90" and minus signs in it possible, thinking that must make it right :-)
I think B90 C0 should point to -x direction.
toastatwork: no, XYZ are the workpiece, UVW are along the tool (in one of the kins I wrote anyway)
NewType: what do you mean point? the tool tip?
cradek: yes, tool tip
where is this B axis
on the head or on the table?
I think I might agree
toastatwork: B is on the head
I think it shouldn't matter...
the so call head-head configuration
it shouldn't, you're right - i was confused what the question was
you and me both
like, are you asking where the 0 on the B axis is pointing?
when you issue B90?
all I'm prepared to confirm is that axis is doing something funky
jepler: but wouldn't you rather just argue?
if you have x0 y0 z0 B0 C0, then the tool tip should point down, just like a regular 3 axis
I bet THAT we all agree on
one [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY make the cone do what I expect, and the backplot do what I don't
is this a horizontal?
and another reverses which one does what I expect
in each case where it's doing something 'funny", "funny" seems to be that the C-axis rotation isn't doing anything
and "what I expect" means "axis looks a lot like vismach"
if it's applied last, it can't really do much
rotated cone is still a cone
maybe it's rotating the cone around it's axis
cradek: also, is it possible that W changerd direction since you first wrote cone.ngc?
which you wouldn't see
g1 w100 f2000 (drill)
yes that's wrong
w- should drill
alex_joni: where do you stand in terms of where the tool tip of x0 y0 z0 B90 C0 should point at?
NewType: in a whole different world than you guys :)
* alex_joni is a robots guy
it's X0Y0Z0 Alpha0 Beta0 Gamma0 there
newtype, I can't visualize it, but all our rotaries are counterclockwise from 0, looking from + to -
and I usually don't care where it points to ;)
so if we have a pretend C axis, the spindle, looking down on X and Y (normal graph paper)
toastatwork: so that's the right hand rule!
C90 rotates from parallel to x, to parallel to y
toastatwork: I think I agree to that.
if B is nonzero anyway
assuming all other axes are 0, yes.
cradek: yes, I agree to that too.
i don't think i understand
if B is zero, C is irrelevant, and the tool is upright (along Z)
toastatwork: if you have x0 y0 z0 B0 C0 move to x0 y0 z0 B0 C90, you just rotate the spindle counterclockwise.
newtype yes, exactly
i was imagining a perpindicular bar in the spindle along X
and just rotating C to move it around.
toastatwork: yes, I agree.
to get the rotation rules.
so, where do you put B axis then? :)
paralle to y?
that's where B is on all my machines
others would call my Y X though
so, with right hand rule again, x0 y0 z0 B0 C0 move to x0 y0 z0 B90 C0, the tool tip should point to -x direction, right?
i can't visualize it, so I dunno
if you followed the same rule as the hypothetical C axis, then i agree.
toastatwork: here: look at the lower left: http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
I assume x0 y0 z0 B0 C0 would have the tool pointing downward, like a 3 axis machine would.
yeh, i think i agree
you have a 5 axis machine???
oh?. Humm. ;(
and I guess a trunnion head, but we don't use it much.
toastatwork: do you have axis running?
sry, don't run emc
oh? what do you have then? mach3?
the machine i am running right now is a Fanuc 0M
mitsubishi meldas 64
oh, so it has its own contorller.
and they're tables, not heads
and they're horizontal?
too much for me to try and visualize as a vertical head-head 5 axis machine
I have a 5 axis head-head machine.
tool = HalRotate([tool],c,"joint4",1,0,-1,0)
The B rotation is negated in 5axisgui.py
I configured using the right hand rule.... but AXIS is showing somethign different.
jepler: so it rotates in the wrong directoin then?
I can't say that I've figured this out yet
I'm talking about 5axisgui, which I don't think you're even talking about
i am kind of glad i only have to deal with indexing tables, it sounds hard
to deal with head-head rotaries
5axisgui is this thing: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/5axisgui.png
jepler: do you follow the right-hand-rule?
I follow the order of unthumbed fools
opposable thumbs are overrated
that's certainly how some woodworkers behave
jepler: that picture, according to the setting of the machine axis, is not following the right-hand-rule.
that's why I am confused.
+y is into the picture
* alex_joni googles something
and that's b45c0 or something
which should be, according to the right hand rule, B-45 C0.
NewType: this should maybe help? http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
yep. my machien is the lower left: 5 axis router
+y is into the picture, this should be x0 y0 z0 B-45 C0, right?
x+ into the picture?
nope, x+ is right of the picture.
I ran this 5axis code 20 minutes ago... so I think I remember this right.
not according to rainnea ;)
I mean cnc-toolkit
okok.... let's pick one.
I just need a reference.
I am running AXIS, loading up 5axis right now.
let's use AXIS...
one sec... internet problem... one sec.
now I've got my axis and 5axisgui all screwed up
jepler: git reset --hard :D
alex_joni: maybe git stash
NewType: I am pretty sure about 5axisgui rotating B opposite the right-hand rule
(and I think I see the line of code that causes that)
ok, so x+ is moving the assembly to the right, good!
that's join 0
axis more or less does what 5axisgui shows, but I can't see where *its* inverted direction of rotation comes from yet
join 1, y axis, is moving the assembly into the picture. good.
jepler: maybe the ini?
hmm.. ok.. would have been a wild guess
I suspect nothing fancy in axisrc either ...
so, if I rotate joint 4 to a positive direction....
Megazone: which is 4?
it is the same as http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/5axisgui.png
joint 4 is B
joint 3 is A
XYZABC -> 012345
darn, I want my nick back!
well.. 0123.. map to the moving parts (joints)
so if you have a XYZBC it's still 01234
but since it's AB there shouldn't be any confusion
alex_joni: no, it looks like 5axisgui is set up to do nothing with joint 3 and B ~= joint 4
alex_join: I need 012345 to do all 5 axis, because A axis is a place holder.
ah, ok.. so it's XYZABC actually
Megazone, /nickserv help ghost
or wait for it to time out ;)
alex_joni: I did do the way you think first, but I need to set AXES = 6 in the *.ini file to get the B and C correct.
Megazone: that depends on the kins
if you don't want to rewrite those, then it's easiest like this
Megazone is now known as NewType
well, I used 5axiskin and trivalkin, both give me the wrong B axis rotation.
the kins themselves have little influence over AXIS
they do have influence on vismach though
elevated guesses :P
if I ignore the graphics in AXIS, and just use the correct actual machien motion to set the B axis, then all my GCode is OK.
but I want to know why B is rotating in a different direction.
in 5axis and trivalkin.
becaues it may screw me up in the very short future.
there is also a part 2 to my problem. in the AXIS graphics screen, the tool will go in and out of the tool path, while the actual machine will be moving correctly.
NewType: I'm more or less convinced that you're right, the rotation of B in 5axisgui, 5axiskins and in axis is backwards from the sane (right-hand rule) way
YEAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am right!
NewType: for now, I think you can change the direction of rotation by specifying [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY = XYZC-B in your inifile
OK. let me try that.
is there a way to capture a video of the AXIS graphics screen?
but when I find and fix the problem in axis, your inifile will suddenly be wrong :-/
no easy way
jepler: in [DISPLAY] GEOMETRY? or [TRAJ] GEOMETRY?
[21:35:22] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[DISPLAY]-section
elif ch == 'B':
glRotatef(ry*sign, 0, 1, 0)
try as I might, I can't see the negative number here
OK, it is working.
and surely opengl's rotate follows the right-hand rule :-/
let's try the GCode.
Oh mAN! it is doing the right now!!
oh no... almost....
yeah, now something about the C rotation is wrong
after C rotates 180, the AXIS graphics is wrong.
the actual machine is OK though.
I need to capture the AXIS screen on video for you guys.
duty call. back again later!
good night all
EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY