Is there any reason to have a seperate ENA pin for each of the servo amps from EMC
jimbo655: IIRC, the ENA outputs all come on at the same time, so there doesn't seem to be much point to using more than one.
the motion controller turns on all of its enable outputs at the same time
in HAL, you can take one of those outputs and connect it to multiple physical outputs
if for some reason they should be separated
otherwise, you can connect them together - EMC dosen't disable some motors while running others, since they still have to hold position if they're not moving
a 10ft break sure make bending aluminum flashing easy.
anyone have a 3.5" socket I can borrow?
I don't think so.
is it for the wheels on your formula 1 car?
Thats one hell of a nut your trying to crack :)
for the bearing preload?
yeah I need to replace the seal behind the bearings on one side - all the oil poured out
is it really rusty?
I don't know what I'm doing, but clearly a 3.5" socket is the next tool I need
chisle and hammer?
the rusty part is already done, this part was bathed in oil until recently and is nice and clean
I don't know how tight it is - nothing I have can turn it at all - I'll look for a socket tomorrow.
wonder if sears has anything that big. I know the import 3/4 drive sets don;t go that big
[02:16:39] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Proto-3-1-2-Aluminum-Alloy-Axle-Bearing-Nut-Socket_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a15Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4a9893d747QQitemZ320387405639QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools
Jymmm: not exposed, unfortunately
skunkworks: you rock
bizarre, I wonder how tight this is
it is the bearing preload right? it was held with a keeper?
of some sort.
there are two nuts with a locker that bends over the inner one, and has a key to keep it from turning. then there's a second nut that tightens on top of the locker.
dang, I should have taken a picture.
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
wheel bearing nuts should not be that tight, ignoring the possibility that they may be rusted in place
there is no rust inside
ah - so it could be tight. (second nut could be quite tight)
if rusted, you might need something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_rdc=1&item=370209275275
[02:23:39] <Jymmm> http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/images/uploads/7080_1749_large.jpg
you could try a chisle - no really.
seems like the top one could be arbitrarily tight, since it just locks the inner one in place
the nuts are setting the preload on a bearing and so should not be that tight
steve_stallings: it is double-nutted.
dang, I need a picture. the two nuts lock together, involving a keyed washer, to keep both from rotating and changing the preload
the second nut doesn't usually need to be that tight either because it is held at a given rotation by either a cotter pin or a bent tab on a setting ring
sounds like I should just make a socket to try, before doing anything drastic
the fun part will probably be getting the seals out and back in without damaging them
[02:26:35] <Jymmm> http://www.4x4wire.com/rover/maintenance/front_axle/wheel_bearings/locknut.jpg
steve_stallings: yeah I'm a little worried about that, but with care I bet I can do it
given that I have not notice you being a member of the "bigger hammer" brigade, you are probably ok 8-)
[02:30:14] <cradek> http://www.meritorhvs.com/MeritorHVS_Images/product/PreSet-by-ArvinMeritor-bus-foundation-brakes.gif
this is *something* like the design I have
two nuts on the front of the front bearing
axle pokes through and bolts to the front
brakes bolt on the back of the hub/wheel somehow - I haven't got it that far apart yet
brake disc, I mean
those tires and rims will be heavy, think about not jacking things way up in the air, and have some help or a gizmo for moving the tire off the hub
yeah unfortunately to get it on my (biggest) jack stands, it's almost 2" off the ground. I will put something under it before I hope to pull it off.
a car wheel is 80? lb so these may well be 250?
no idea, but yeah, heavy
that aluminum socket on ebay isn't very expensive, even at the buy-it-now price
the actual "goes on the nut" part will be plenty strong, even in aluminum
the square hole for the drive is the weak link
I almost bought it, but I can make one, and have it tomorrow, for $0
I like Jymmm's idea of using a pipe wrench
you have a chunk of metal that big?
I could not make the square
you don't need the square ;-)
oh I'm sure I do :-)
nope, screw the square
round OD, hex ID, cross drill for a piece of 1/2" rod
if I make it, I can make the OD exactly right, to fit inside the hub
then it will be almost impossible for it to do anything but turn the nut
mcmaster has them for only $200
I also need 1-1/8 and 1-1/4 impact sockets, but that ought to be easy to find even locally (I hope)
even sears might have those
my little set only goes to 1"
when you make the big socket, you might consider putting a 1-1/4" male hex on it (where the square hole would normally go)
for a lug nut wrench?
for the 1-1/4" socket
that way you can use a regular ratchet, torque wrench, whatever
I'm hoping that marking the nut will let me get the preload reset correctly - I have no idea what it should be
with the wheel off the ground, tighten until there is drag, the back off one locking tab increment, or so he says based on light duty stuff......
can you find a shop manual on your chassis? a hundred bucks now may save you much more later
I have a service book, but I think it's engine only
grin.... the coach mfg usually sells the chassis manual, then tells you to go buy the engine and transmission manual elsewhere
thanks for the advice, everyone
so many people here are "good at stuff"
jimbo655: looks like I just need +/- 15V and +5
cradek: That's not a left-hand thread, is it?
jtr_: nope, I checked
figured you did, but I had to ask. I've seen that kind of arrangement before (never that big), but don't recall how they locked the outside nut, unless it was a tab that bent up.
jtr_ is now known as jtr
I did not see any lock for the outside one, except that it might be very tight against the locking ring and inner nut
sometimes there is a tabbed washer between the two nuts, the washer will be keyed to the axel, then there are tabs bent down on the first nut and up on the second
steve_stallings: that's exactly what it is, but I didn't see a bend up to the top one - maybe I just missed it.
or the last mechanic didn't do it 8-)
In a past life I worked as a tractor mechanic (over the road and farm). Tighten to no play and back off one flat. I remember the tab only on the outside nut.
on this thing, I think the last mechanic is almost always the factory...
are the bearings going to pull right out, or is that an ordeal?
they will slip out without much problem
this is easy and simple but VERY heavy and awkward
oh good. then I probably have it made.
without a jack to handle this you will need three men and a boy to take it off and put it back on
the put back on is more critical
the seal is already damaged or you would not be removing it
it is easy to damage the seal on reassembly
good luck with it. I'm out for the night.
I think I will take the wheel off the hub (?) to do it
(I don't know the terminology)
this will then become a two man operation
without the wheel I don't think it will be terribly heavy - less than 100 lb
maybe much less - I'm not sure how much the casting is hollow in the back
I hope it comes off the brake disk easily - I guess that stays on - not sure how that works.
If you have some hold down straps you can use them as a sling to assist in lifting
you may have to adjust (loosen) the brakes to allow the hub to slip off the shoes
lugs seem to bolt the disk to the back of the hub
then I have no idea - you will have to see just what is there
yeah how hard can it be? :-)
famous last words
are you sure the rears are disk?
yes it's very plain that they are disk
ok, rather modern chassis
when you remove the caliper have some wire or rope to suspend it without stressing the brake hose
I'm hoping to leave the caliper and disk in place by unbolting the hub/disk interface - we'll see
the caliper looks _quite_ rusted in place
probably not rusted in place
I will take pictures tomorrow - trying to describe it is no fun
probably a couple of bolts is all that holds the caliper on
you will need to depress the pistons a bit to slide the caliper off the disk, the block them so they do not ooze back out
goodnight folks, thanks again
I'll take pictures and keep you informed!
I'm getting an error message when I start up emc
it's something about can;t read varval
can't read varval
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
cradek, 260434821898 some hardinge tooling your side of the pond
dunno if it fits yours
whats this bus I read in the logs
our homemade RV based on an old bus
I have a truck at home :)
BJT-Laptop_ is now known as BJT-Laptop
hmm denim purse...that makes mine somewhat rag trade
cradek: you around?
off and on (network troubles)
I have made spindle nut wrenches using heavy wall tubing indexed on three sides
you need the hole hex
good idea, thanks
large pipe wrench will turn it
i have used a oil filter wrench too but if its real tight no good ( all depends on filter wrench type )
this one is inside the hub, so it really needs a socket shape - pretty thin wall too
large tube at the max dia mill three sides inside
it can be pipe if you find one close
many butchers have used a coal chisel to turn the nut
you only mill three sides of the hex out and you get the socket shape leaving .1 to .15 to catch the nut "socket shape - pretty thin wall too"
cradek: do you understand what I said about the max dia of the wheel hub hole for pipe, then mill the flats for the hex on three sides inside?
chog is now known as chog_afk
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-06-25.txt
hmm - that is interesting
[17:45:56] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzY-OqckqpI&feature=channel
sort of looks like he is threading using the spindle as a rotory axis.
maybe not - I don't know
no, I don't think so
he does switch between spindle mode and axis mode though, which is cool
it just seems odd that the spindle stopped between each pass
I didn't notice that
it did stop between the turning and milling cycles (doing the flats)
Hi, what's going on?
Not much. How is your mesa project coming?
Got the axes done, although not allowing full speed yet. Now working on spindle speed, tool changer, etc.
How's your project, I mean how are your projects, LOL?
And any news on cradek's bus since last night?
I have only been really working on the garage. Someone let me borrow a 10ft metal brake to do my flashing. works great.
should be siding soon. Garage doors are also ordered and should be in in a few weeks.
How tall are the doors? I'll bet nice and tall.
only 8ft :)
a little farther than this http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/enclosed.JPG
OK, thanks. I forgot to tell you that Dave has got a mill with those big Gettys DC motors and SCR drives that might be another test candidate for your new IGBT(?) drives when they're ready. Let me know what you think.
Hi cradek what news on your bus? I was reading the log last night, very interesting, a big project. Make your socket yet?
for screw cutting from a shoulder, how much lead is needed
Just one revolution, if you cut away from the shoulder? (guessing)
depends on spindle speed and Z-axis accel
the lathe I just went to see turns the other way tools behind
dunno if I should get it, or fight for hardinge
SWPadnos: Yeah, that sounds right. So slow down and get one-lost-thread best case?
an older one of these http://www.denford.com/Novaturn.html
KimK, I don't know what the practical answer is, only the theoretical/technical one :)
Well, you're doing better than me, I'm just guessing, LOL
pc missing so a good upgrade candidate
archivist, the only issue I can think of is whether there's a display option in AXIS to match a lathe with tools in the back
there's a hack somewhere to do it
heh then one of use whould have one :(
G2/G3 arcs also are reversed from a normal lathe, which means they're correct compared to a mill
(in the preview anyway)
[19:03:01] <jepler> http://mid.gmane.org/20080916131626.GB3375@unpythonic.net
has the tool changer and seem very little wear
jepler, does that also flip the profile display?
was that already an option?
SWPadnos: yes, it flips it. no, it wasn't an option
archivist: hauling home a lathe is a big project (ask SWP!) and you're likely to live with it for a while, so make sure it's one you want. Then again, a lathe in the hand is worth two at HGR, or something like that.
KimK, there are a few here that may go home when we close....choices
but I know a few who would want 220436113495
Ah, a closing. Sorry to hear that.
Burton is home
OK. How many people put out of work?
one me, boss intends to work from home
or do I beg this http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010226.JPG
and add emc
Oh, well, OK then.
as I dont know if a swiss type sliding head has been tackled yet
* BJT-Laptop heads out to play in the sand
But that's a full mechanical now, right? No place to attach servos or steppers?
I don't see any tooling on it either, so it's not currently set up for a specific product? (As in salable product?)
archivist looks archaic.. how old is it? 1950s?
the tooling works against springs so simple push needed
50's 60's maybe yes
Well we can't have archaic an eat it too...
sure we can :)
OK, just my opinion, but unless you have a specific small part that is in high demand, I'd go CNC. But the mechanical can run *huge* quantities fast, and with little effort, so if you're selling a small turned item (standoffs?) that sells, say in bags of 100, go with the mechanical (and their customer list!)
cnc on top of those mechanics, means fast millions and no set up cost
Well, no setup cost the *second* time, anyway, LOL
job setup cost makes them uneconomic as they were, EMC could make one cheap and useful
Well, it would be interesting. If you want to try it, I guess you're in the right place (here).
It should be operable, but both the programming and display might be "unconventional". For example, you might have several tools in use at once.
So the T number will probably not help you.
nope as one would be using another axis
But with 9 axes (sorry, joints) it should be doable.
G-code can only do coordinated motion
I can see need for 6 with 3 left for live tooling/whatever
so if you would want to move different tools around independently, it would be a challenge
mostly one would use another slide as just another tool
so one or two axes at a time
Yes, they might move independently (slower, but sometimes necessary) or together (faster, when possible).
I'm saying that independent motion is not a part of G-code
so that would be a challenge to implement
Sure it is
likely different tool forms in each slide
independent but not simultaneous is of course possible
Well, it would be odd to say G1 X2 V3 or something, but OK.
Can the A,B,C um, joints be non-rotary?
(Might need more linear axes)
in theory, yes
in practica, I don't think so
there are joint type settings in the ini file (linear vs. rotary), but the axes ABC (in world coordinates) are only rotary
If it's just the display, might have to accept that the display just won't work.
no, that's part of G-code
But if you didn't need "world translation", just 3 more linear joints?
G-code operates in world mode only
kinematics translate between that and joints
if you have an ABC word plus any other word (XYZUVW), then you will get an inverse-time move such that all joints finish motion at the same time
axes actually, not joints (since we're in world coordinates :) )
In a G1 move? I thought that happened (coordinated motion) with any two axes, i.e. X & Y ?
G1X1Y1Z1A1B1C1U1V1W1 is valid (assuming a feed rate has been previously programmed)
and in that case, there is a specifig way the time is calculated, which I don't remember exactly
(but it's in the G-code manual)
Oh, I thought you meant (earlier) that unless you mentioned A, B, or C, you would not get coordinated motion.
something like taking the hypoteneuse of XYZ and using that as the distance to use when calculating time based on F
it's just the amount of time it takes that is calculated differently with combined rotary/linear moves
OK. But back to archivist, he can only count on 6 (independent, unrelated) joints from EMC2, right?
if you do separate moves, you can control any axis
what, only 3. Yikes.
if you do a sequence like A1 / X3 / U-1 ..., you can do whatever you want
you can move all axes at the same time, and they will all take the same amount of time to make their moves
but, they will not have independent speeds in that mode
so they're not truly being controlled independently
this type of lathe thats ok as the cut is by feeding the stock out the collet
oh, that you can do all day :)
KimK was talking about controlling the tool positions also
which would be possible as a setup step in HAL - no G-code required
I dont see any real problems,
Well, I think that's OK if a multiple axis move all finishes together. archivist ?
only one can be done at a time as the tool holders are next to the collet
Oh, well, if you never have a situation where that comes up, then never mind, LOL
but for full possibilities watch a citizen sliding head video
that has a back head and live tooling
and a price to match
[20:01:22] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z06Kg4PhB8
hmm I WANT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weJQS0WkqdY&NR=1
4000 Volt motor
shreds one car every 10 seconds
[20:10:17] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HM2x0MosOs&feature=related
auto piloted manless parachute
Heh, and engraves too!
The sliding lathe head was pretty cool, never saw a lathe thread before
seen one of the citizens in the flesh at a show, very nice toys
You need a CNC just for the head alone.
hmm has rayh done his HXL-S, how big are they
I'm back to working on the init string for classicladder, and if I put the init string in up to and including numPhysOuputs=200 it works fine (emc2 starts up); but if I put the whole init string in, it errors out (emc2 won't start). Any suggestions? The original problem I'm trying to solve is that some of the upper value I'm using are not showing up in the symbol table.
I'll go set up to try the init string with all default values, brb.
Interesting, all default values gives "classicladder_rt: Unknown parameter `numPhysOuputs'" in tail | dmesg
back in a bit
Full-length init string with all-default-values doesn't work either.
how long is the string?
halcmd has a command length limit of 1024 characters
or twice that maybe
Length as needed to list every item shown in the Integrator's Manual. Line length 259. I have a partial init string that works, with a line length of 160.
Another problem I'm having (when I go back to the init string that works) is that I'm trying to add a numerical value to classic ladder. This spindle drive always needs 0 to +10, but if I do M4, I get 0 to -10 and drive stays off. I'm trying to do an ABS value in CL.
But getting classicladder.0.S32out-00 does not exist
back in a bit
Geo01005: where is the description of you're raw read and write to access the A/D converter?
Sorry, capitalized. geo01005
Goslowjimbo, I think the only docs I have on it are the comments in the comp file.
I also wrote the hm2 spi section on the wiki, but I don't think that will help much.
How is your project comming?
Trying to do the programming. Just talked to pcw, jepler, and seb_k on emc_dev to get some help.
pcw gave me a significant boost.
Gonna go code. Bye
Oh, and SWPadnos.
really bye now.
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
It looks like the original wiring of the limit limit switches was 110 volt. Probably had an interlock that shut down the servo motor. Should I try to retain this or just tie the limits into EMC2?
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
Man, both Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson are dead
I know she was battling cancer for a while
FF had cancer, MJ had a heart attack
he's about my age
she was 62
[23:15:25] <Jymmm> http://www.examiner.com/x-14650-Entertainment-Examiner~y2009m6d25-Breaking-News-Farrah-Fawcett-has-died
ok, older than me ;)
[23:15:47] <Jymmm> http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_1_0_t&usg=AFQjCNHiC6Z_oYxmU-n6GYEr9L7Xer2rcA&cid=1380173249&ei=AP9DSvicE4mC7QPLgtSkAQ&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alternativehealthjournal.com%2Farticle%2Fmichael_jackson_dead_at_50%2F3629
wow. and wikipedia is already updated
that's kinda creepy
SWPadnos: Imagine looking yourself up in wikipedia to find your obituary.
"the electronic account of my death is a bit prema- urnk"
SWPadnos: Oh, wanted to ask you if you know of any (electronic) way to measure the pressure that's placed againest the ballmount on my machine?
I think you'd have to attach a strain gauge somehow
Maybe even skew and asium too
Dang, Ed McMahon died on the 23rd
so the idea is to see how the ballnut would like to move as the axis is driven towards or away from it?
SWPadnos: Well, we suspect that's the problem (ballnut mount), but instead of continuing the trail-and-error saga, make some actual tests to get some real numbers
trouble is it's at the motor end, so I think it makes sense to measure there
rather than at the slightly more accessible other end
what is at the motor end?
the problem occurs when the gantry is closer to the motor end, IIRC
oh, well it stalls about 1/3rd in, so not all tht close
In other words.... we have clearnace to play with 9(at least 5")
It's just a matter of figuring out HOW to measure it. I can always remove the top easily enough.
I'm not so concerned about clearance, it's more that the motor has to float along with the bearing mount
yeah, I was thinking about that - much easier to see if the MDF is gone
Why does the motor have to "float" ?
it's belt driven for one
there are two kinds of measurements you can make
hmmm, good point :)
I wonder if that's a problem actually
But even if it wasn't, what do you mean by float here?
if the bearings are shit, it could be
replaced the bearings already.
[23:34:03] <Goslowjimbo> http://pastebin.com/m3f65fb18
trying to create a component, but getting error on non-existent line number.
you're missing a close }
and I think you may need a CR after the last line with stuff on it
Now I get warnings about rtapi and HAL functions undefined. Do I need a couple of include statements, or is this normal?
if it's linker errors, then I think it's normal
if it's compiler errors, then it's not normal
[23:44:26] <Goslowjimbo> http://pastebin.com/d501170e2
yep, those are OK
is it acceptable to just tie your limits into the IO ports on the computer or do I need a hard disconnect with the servo drive as well?
* Jymmm is back! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! EEEEeeeeeeeek
SWPadnos: Ok man, so how can we measure any of this, and with what?