that should result in a build error
yeah, i would have thought so too
but it managed to build just fine
with some message like "error: unknown identifier >>>>>>>"
well, as long as it's working now :)
that's true, so it must not have been a merge error
yeah, haha, it's working now which is good
it's for my lathe, i've been running emc on my mill for a while, so i decided to take my lathe off turbocnc and try emc on it
any particular reason why you're using RIP instead of installing the latest?
oh, run in place?
i'm using named o-word subs
i think that is only in the repository but not in the general release
no, it's released
you have to manually tell synaptic to look at the 2.3 repositories though
that makes my life a lot easier then
[00:04:53] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.3
i have 2.3 installed on the same machine
i just thought it didn't support the named subs yet
2.3 from the synaptic
the machine started off life as a 2.2 live cd install
and i followed the instructions on updating to 2.3 to update it to 2.3
it does, there's just a bugfix (from earlier today) that fixes a problem when there are certain tests on named variables in code blocks that never execute
cool, thanks for the info
It appears that the controller on the mill I purchased was not as described.
But I may be able to salvage the linear encoder card.
I just need to figure out rail voltages, power up the card and find the TTL outputs.
The big question is how many output wires for each encoder are they complmentary?
jimbo: they are either A,B and Z if single ended
or A, /A, B, /B and Z, /Z if differential
[06:07:01] <WalterN> http://www.eos.info/en/products/metal-laser-sintering/materials.html
how much do those machines run new anyway?
Are the A, /A 1 pr of wires or two?
in general, a /a should be a pair of wires
what kind of controller is it?
cant afford it right now... hopefully later
cad and more cda
doing kinematic stuff with alibre motion
[11:42:41] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/12/meteorite_strike/
wow. now there's a "winamp weirdness": Weird Al "Pretty Fly for a Rabbi", followed by Yanni "Aria"
one of my wifes friends from highschool loves yanni. Just went to see him
that would be cool
on a good stereo, the track "Acroyali / Standing In Motion" from "Live At The Acropolis" is an amazing thing to behold
even better with (more or less) HD video :)
there's a massive drum solo in that one
there's another one (I don't remember which one) that I played for my sister, and she was amazed by the orchestra, specifically the violin section
there were about 50 people playing violin, but as she said "oh my god, they sound like one instrument"
eric_unterhausen: Heidenhain TNC 145
does it have Heidenhain encoders?
Yes it does
the good news is they only have a limited number of pinouts for their encoders
the bad news is they are ~
are they microvolt, or current?
not sure 3 different ones model 701, LS 803 D and LS 903 all .005um. looks like I can get some EXE 610 for about $400-$450 for 3.
yeah, you have to luck into those things or they are expensive
The other option is there is a TNC 355 on EBAY starting at $1000 with servos and drives...
Either way it is ugly....
I take it you can't identify the conversion circuitry inside your control
Yes i can identify it. it is a single card. already on the bench. the 5 volt digital supply is easy i just don't
know if the board also has +- voltages for the opamps.
if your old control works, measure it in place
how many axis can EMC2 interpolate at the same time?
that's the "world coordinates": XYZABCUVW
if you have more actuators, you can handle more or less as many as you need in HAL
jimbo: plus in the future - you could rigid tap. ;)
* skunkworks586 just thinks it is cool.
hm.. the ancient heidenhain does rigitd tapping already I think.. :)
OK Ok Ok I get it.....
phfff - whatever. ;)
Really? then the encoder is already there?
* eric_unterhausen thing skunkworks586 is easily amused :)
Then you could now :)
the ~ to ttl is a single board uses a Rathion chip and some LM339's some other digital logic.
if the PS dident smoke the card I can reuse it after I scope it out
I would look at the PS first
I am going to tickle the violtage regs on the PS board and see where they regulate
if there are no +/- voltages, your answer is easy
just look first :)
I am tempted to buy a heidenhain rotary encoder for my big mill.. and hook up the tapping function..
I will look at the chips first.
yeah, they make some that are so big you could wrap it around your spindle
Time to go to work will chat later...
the coolest picture ever: http://failblog.org/2009/06/12/livestock-transportation-fail/
that seems to be working though - it's not really a fail :)
looks like it's working
school system robo-called us yesterday to say they had swine flu outbreak and they weren't going to do anything about it
so - no days off? ;)
someone needs to point the list to the bbs metric discussion.
what is a bbs metric discussion?
it's basicly a BS discussion
start a discussion about the metric system among Americans and you get a batch of opinions that make you wish you hadn't
someone with a real internet service provider try this link for me: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1445
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at www.dealextreme.com. Though the site seems valid, the browser was unable to establish a connection.
eric_unterhause1: same here
that's gonna be bad for business
would it be hard to add a time series plot widget to pyvcp?
sort of like a scope view of a signal.
I don't know that there is such a widget in tk or whatever the underlying toolkit is
which means that you would have to write that first, and then make pyvcp understand it
I would think you would have to make a new widget using canvas, but I'm not very familiar with tk.
in addition, you would need some sort of shared memory buffer, like scope has, with an RT capture component (you could possibly use scope_rt)
other issues: you can't just make a pin that gets the data, since the sample rate would (presumably) need to be consistent and faster than the UI updates. This means that specifying HAL pins in the xml file is kind of useless. the UI widget would need to be capable of attaching to the RT capture component, modifying what it looks at, etc.
and would ideally function correctly if the UI initializes before the RT component is loaded (ie, show nothing or something like that)
but then connect automagically when the RT component/memory buffer becomes available
I was thinking of a time series plot that would plot say tempurature over a long period of time, like an hour. So I'm not sure that the sample rate would be a big deal.
Probably not really worth it though...
Probably better to display/ Analyze data like that outside of the RT interface.
ok, something like that, which has non-deterministic sample rate/spacing, would be easier
Hi, this is the first time i enter to the channel, i know here is not a gecko driver channel haha, but i was wondering if you could tell me how much pulses do i have to send to the gecko 202 driver to make my motor go forward one step? or where i cand find it. Thanks
when updating does it look at files to see if they have been edited? I made some changes to Tkemc.tcl so I could see the next line to be executed and I updated and it replaced that file?
or was there some changes made to tkemc?
I thought someone was working on a 'recorder' widget
I remember seeing it added to pyvcp pannel
hmm adding stiffening......WIN!!!!
skunkworks586, Interesting, was this recently?
last 6 months.
It would be nice to have a HMI/SCADA hal interface to use the hal for non-machining processes.
I don't know if anybody else would have any interest in that though.
it was JanVanGilsen
I don't know if he ever finished it.
(and the imagebin is probably gone_
eric_unterhausen: Deal Extreme is getting their ass DDOSed
but i think we both know this is the one you should be using https://www2.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11809
I have a small project (3 axis table top, servo motors with pluto-p) and not being a software literate, I could use some help with the config files.
I've been googling the web and cnczone etc. forums for some time and thought to try this next.
good thinking ;)
where are you stuck?
My problem is that my servo driver has PWM input and I'm not able to figure out the pluto config to output PWM on one channel so that 50% would be zero movement, and more/less would control the servo.
So that there is no need for direction control besides that.
you need to set the offset to 50%
The driver is www.granitedevices.fi VSD-A (now obsolete, but otherwise quite nice)
and the gain accordingly
but I'm not sure it's right
Did I understood correctly that the pwm.M.offset (was it float) is something like "0.5000+E00", or is 0.5 enough for that syntax?
So that 1 = 100%.
0.5 is enough
setp pluto-servo.pwm.xx.offset 0.5
then when pwm.xx.value is 0, the output will correspond to 50% .. at least that's my interpretation of the manpage
but jepler might know better ;)
I'l try that one first
you probably want pwmdir set to 1 too
hmm.. let me think a bit about this
the output before the pluto-servo.pwm.xx.value is coming from a pid.. right?
if that value is negative, the pluto pwmgen will either set the direction bit, or use the other output to output pwm
so what I said before is not ok
you need to scale & offset the output from PID
with PID we're talking about the power-integrator-derivator feedback?
if PID outputs -10..10, then you need to add 10, and you get 0..20, after that you can scale the pluto-servo.pwm.xx.scale
ej_: let me describe shortly how it works
sounds good :)
the motion controller commands a new position
this position goes into the PID component (PID stands for Proportional, Integrative, Derivative)
the PID component has an output connected to the DAC (or PWM in your case)
the PWM sets a voltage which drives the motor controller
the motor moves, and an encoder on the motor moves in sync
the encoder is read by the pluto encoder counter
the position determined from the encoder counter is fed back to the PID component
now PID knows where it should be (command from motion controller), and where it is (feedback from encoder)
and it sets the output accrodingly
(minus the spelling errors ;)
Should there be anything special that I need to take care of since my servo drive has it's own PID, and I got the impression that the PID in ecm2 will always be used?
what mode do you have it set to? velocity?
position if I remember correctly
I think you need to let us know how you have the encoder hooked up. is it to the drive or the pluto - or both?
It will be to both (this may be too premilinary stuff, I haven't yet hooked the machine to emc2/pluto yet, mostly becauase the driver side is hard for me)
Im' currently trying to figure out how the thing can be done in the first place
[18:48:43] <skunkworks586> http://www.granitedevices.fi/assets/files/vsd-a_004.pdf
page 9 sort of shows it as pwm+/pwm-
"Positive and negative terminals of optoisolators are brought to connector. In most cases negative (-) pins are connected to control source ground."
I'm assuming that the - pin is the ground pin thus making the drive taking single pwm instead of two channels
oh - I see it - sorry
#$%@# i crashed a machine about four times today doing the same damn thing
page 17 has more info about this (pwn input, not crashing machines)
I'll try the 0.5 offset and scaling first, it sounds like it could be possible
ej: I see to 'good' ways of setting up this amp. Good/easiest (other than step/dir - don't do it! ;)) set the amp in current mode and just run the encoder back to the pluto. best - set the amp to velocity mode - this will be better/more stable but will require you to somehow run the encoder to the amp and pluto - or have 2 differnt encoders.
I assume postion mode is only for quad/step-dir inputs.
or spi - but we won't go there.
no we won't :)
the encoder connection to both amp and pluto is not a problem
and a direct connection should work anyway, because the system has a single ground (in theory...) and both have input-only pins reading the signals
so for the config file
pluto-servo.pwm.M.scale NN so that the full pwn is scaled to one pin
here I'm assuming 0.5 ratio at the moment
It's getting late so I'll leave (for now). Thanks a lot! I got good hints how to progress and set up the machine
good night all
The power supply was not of much use other than the caps giving general voltage if 16 volt on +- rails.
looking at the chips and filter caps on the board I find that digital ground and the analog - on the opamos are the same there is a seperat + rail for the v+ side of the opamps
and then you have digital 5+
it looks like thay are running the opamps on a single voltage rail instead of +-
How do I make my own Homing sequecy
put HOME_SEQUENCE entries in the [AXIS_#] sections of your ini file
start at 0, and go up from there, without skipping any numbers
if you can move more than one axis at a time, give those the same number
for example, to home Z first, then X and Y at the same time, set [AXIS_2]HOME_SEQUENCE to 0 and set it to 1 for both AXIS_0 and AXIS_1
I dont mean this
I have Portal machine that has 2 servos in Y axis
Some videos and pictures
I nees to syncronise Two servos
ah. that's a bit more complex. there are discussions of possible ways of doing that in the IRC logs, and there may be a wiki page as well
go to linuxcnc.org and search for things like gantry homing, slaved home, etc.
Sequency will be like this: Find home switch, find index for bought servos, calculata pulses between index pulses, make correction
(I'm not sure what the best search words will be, and I don't know recall what sugestions from IRC have actually been implemented)
noting to find
i have looked
is homing sequency implemented in EMC code
dual-motor setups need some HAL configuration to work
[20:13:31] <Vortex2> http://picasaweb.google.com/JSSKangas/Porttaalikone#5329442158317563234
I wrote new servosync code to monitor that servos make same movement
and is servos has too much difference its shuts off system
[20:17:08] <Vortex2> http://www.youtube.com/jsskangas
in HAL or with some feature of the servo drives?
I wrote it in HAL
Acsuallu it a new HAL component
these are analog velocity control servo drives?
do you have home switches on both synchronized motors?
there is still one proplem in homing
I just realized that I desperately need to eat. I'll be back in a little while to read what the problem is
When home switch is found it backs up to index pulse, when it find index and home offset is 0 sevo make realy nasty sound
some times causing following error
I need to haba beer
do you have it set to go to a position after homing?
haw a beer
home offset is =
btw, what's the loud noise your machine makes when you jog it? is it the rails?
or it might be the camera amplifying the sound :)
there is no homing
wait a sec
i neet to take avideo
oh, I mean when you just jog it around
[20:26:11] <anonimasu> http://picasaweb.google.com/JSSKangas/Porttaalikone#5329442158317563234
<- that video
That thing in monsterously huge
Im building 3 of them
its a bug in homing
i fugured it out
Vortex2: You have a high lead ball screw... So after you hit the first motor's limit switch and the first motor find it's index position, does the second motor make the same motion the first motor makes?
after finding first index pulse it continues moving and looks for other servos index pulse
So it doesn't make the noise anymore?
then calculates pulses between those two indexis and extaract it from desired
and makes correcion
it mekes that sound
im uploading video
but no i know reason for that
so you didn't figure it out?
here is reason
its takes me a few minutes to write
Bug is that when you find your home place and axis position is still showing example 100,45. Now when its zeroes its axis position axis is showing zero but servo tread is still in 100,45 position, this offset causes PID loop to give full velosity to go this 0 positon.
sounds like your threads are not in the right order.
that could be it
should be read inputs - do calcs - write outputs.
YES its like that
yes i know
in this case, you may need to look at the ordering of the calculations
Othesvice i woul not be asking
can you post the output of "halcmd show all" on pastebin?
sorry i need to go to garrage for that
also grab the ini/hal files, while you're at it :)
I think chris had the same issue with his lathe initally.
except for the dual axis thing
well - right. ;)
now im in garage
ok - http://pastebin.ca
hal, ini, and halcmd show output
I said threads.. I probably meant functions.
Well we have success of sorts powered up the card with +5 volts fior the digital and +-5 for the analog. tied onto one of the XOR gates and hooked up to a freq counter. We get signal when I move the scale. good day
[20:57:31] <Vortex2> http://pastebin.ca/1458232
pid calcs are at the end..
I should stop while I am not ahead.
does the index enable get activated on the slave encoder channel?
if so, the two index marks probably won't be lined up perfectly, and you'll get a jump in that feedback position when the second servo hits its index
no problem is in single servo axis
[21:02:30] <Vortex2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLb42UDFXNM
here is video
should the ServoSync function be before the do-pid-calcs?
its moving Z-axis up 600mm/min when it fids home switch it backs up to first index pule
it only monitors that servos stay sync
if not it give emcy stop
I thought it also subtracted a small offset from the slave motor position ...
first index pulse, when it zeroes axis position that sound happens
emc is only zeroing one of the motors, not both
that is done in the hm2 hardware, and will not be synchronized between the two motors
(and the second motor doesn't have the index reset enabled anyway)
err - I meant the encoder positions
dont worry about two motor set up
oh, it's happening on the single servo axis as well?
this error happens in single motor axis Z
whatc the video
Z is movin
only 1 motor
oh. here I am thinking it's all about two-axis sync :)
it looked like Y was also moving (the slaved setup)
that sound comes from Z axis
and it only happens when home position differes from 0
when i do moming again when home plase is allready 0 it dont make that sound
you should capture a halscope trace with the motor-pos-cmd, encoder feedback, and axis.2.home-state
and trigger on the axis.2.homed parameter
but if its not 0 and EMC has to change it to 0 then this realy rabid move that makes that sound happens
I did it
without seeing what emc is doing, and what it thinks it's seeing, there's no way to tell what's happening
it gives full velocity for really short time
that is the sound
is this an up to date 5i2o bitfile?
Where are you from
im from Finlans
it's getting late for you though :)
no dont worry im used to it
need more beer
here more pictures
[21:14:02] <Vortex2> http://picasaweb.google.com/JSSKangas/
this is who am i
which dog are you? :)
[21:15:15] <Vortex2> http://picasaweb.google.com/JSSKangas/Koiruus#5299013192169556114
picture after huntting trip
its american akita
SWPadnos: do you have eny idea how to solve this proplem
not without scope traces
i can take those tomorrow
ok. check back, if anyone else reads back, they may have more suggestions
I think it could be that when finished homing it zeroes axis wanted position but not curreent position in same time
it zeroes wanted position
I don't think that happens
and after short periot it zeroes current position
there could be an issue where the desired position isn't calculated correctly, since the encoder index reset occirs in hardware (and may be nonzero when the motion controller finally reads it)
what is your homing speed and the encoder resolution?
also, what version of emc2 are you running?
that's not an EMC2 version, that's an OS version
this proplem does notoccur when home ple is 0 before starting home sequency
Did seb just check in a fix for a similar problem? Axis didn't zero until encoder moves?
yes, I believe so
Ok now that I have a working scope, and a square wave. How may pairs of wires am i looking for?
after first homing, i move axis away from home position and make homing again
the proplem dont occur
That makes sense because nothing changes the second time.
this tell me that one slolution could be that this zeroing is current and wanted place hapeens different time
and because of thiss geat difference it give short time to full velocity
it gives smetimes following errors
machine moves are X800mm Y1000mm Z500mm
rapid moves are 15000mm/min
max feed is 10000mm/min
it has 4 and 5 axis too
but not yet implemented
here is video of 4th axis
[21:30:16] <Vortex2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iME2wTebTNk
what are the homing speeds?
and the encoder resolution
and the EMC2 version :)
2048 counts/mm and 600 mm/min for the index search
help -> about (I think)
no index search is 60mm/min
need to go to garage again
emc versio I mena
ok now i have to go to sleep
SWPadnos: see ypu tomorrow
does Quadratic encoding use 4 or 6 leads?
any open office speadsheet guru's on this evening?
jimbo: quadrature encoders can use as few as 4 wires (power, gnd, A, B) or as many as 8 (power, gnd, A, A', B, B', Z, Z'). It depends on whether the encoder has an index (Z) and whether it has differential outputs (A', etc).
BigJohnT: I can try to help, but I'm hardly a guru
I'm trying to insert a row and make the formula not change... I did B$8 for absolute but it still increments :/
Use $B$8 to keep both row and column fixed, $B8 to keep column fixed, and B$8 to keep row fixed
maybe you need $B$8 or $B8 for the behavior you're looking for?
if you['re inserting above row 8, the reference will change, since the referenced cell also changes location
when you insert a row the B$8 changes to B$9
what are you doing to copy/replicate your formula -- dragging the corner of the cell where you entered the formula?
I have not tried $B8
it is below
I have a row of formulas on the top row and I want to insert a row and push the data down so the latest data is in the second row
$B8 increments as well
I agree, that's what it does
I even tried putting the formulas on another sheet but they increment there as well
you need to find someone much more guru than me for your answer .. sorry
np, thanks for trying
I even put the formulas on a locked sheet and they increment
I guess it does not honor the $ for absolute :(
* BigJohnT heads up to fry some fish
jepler: will it work with a,a', b,b'
jimbo: yes, that is one combination that makes sense
Z is mandatory for a spindle when threading or tapping, and is nice for more accurate homing
but for positioning, A B or A A' B B' are enough
Well I have a,a' and b,b' its' a start
Jepler does Z,Z' only trigger at the ends of the scale?
jimbo: with a rotary encoder, it triggers once per revolution
I am not sure how this translates to a linear scale
it may be uncommon or simply not exist at all
"on the LN series linear encoder, a Z index signal is generated every 1/2 inch" -- some web page
It looks like mine only has a,a' b,b'. I am able to use the card out of my controller for access to my linear scales.
So back to the original questions. Will a single MESA 5i22 and a 7i33T control 3 Axis and the quadrature encoding?