made it home!
jmk-wvm: Thus the time-lapse video =)
L84Supper_ is now known as L84Supper
tomp is now known as tom3p
skunkworks: welcome home
we're still here
Seb: you out there?
Is Seb K around?
i had a hypertraumatic experience with tomcat/java servlet technology today
* maddash shudders
I hope to never re-experience that. thank god for python.
* archivist is a happy bunny today, found a book at home "Machine Tool Reconditioning" by connelly, amazon prices are silly
skunkworks350 is now known as skunkworks_
hello; i am using emc2 2.3.1 . my driver requires the enable lines to be in a low state for my motors to move. is there a way in emc2 to keep the enable lines high untill emc sends a signal for the motors to move ?
you need to keep enabled to stop random movement
[14:49:52] <EbiDK|AWAY> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81836
I want a CNC PCB router, should I build or buy(new or second-hand)? My budget is 250 EUR + shipping. I need it to be able to work on 160x100mm prints, 320x200mm would be nice too. It needs to be precise enough to do prints for SMD work.
i see, thanks archivist.
BTW, this might be fun for other electronics people on here: http://www.instructables.com/contest/led09/
aarongr11: emc provides a pin for when motors should hold position (the "machine on") state. the HAL pins are called axis.#.amp-enable-out (# = 0, 1, ..). You can make this signal "active low" on the parport by setting the corresponding "invert". If you can use stepconf, this is the output signal called "amplifier enable"
(the "amplifier enable" for all axes turn on and off at the same time, so it's just fine to use axis.0.amp-enable-out and apply it to a single enable for all your axes)
so at least you can turn your amplifiers off when in estop or machine off modes, but for the reason archivist mentions you wouldn't want to turn the X axis amplifier off just because the ongoing motion is only in Y or Z
I have mine enabled at power on
ahh ok, i'll try that then. thanks for the advice guys.
good morning.i want use with emc 2.3.0 for override axis control a rotative switch.i thing a mux component .it's unique solution or is possible use the gray conversion?
We dont need no stinking encoders... http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MMA7261QT.pdf
seb_kuzminsky: So no work was done on SPI during the fest?
Good morning my the way :)
It was good to meet seb_kuzminsky and lerman_.
I missed Lerman__ at last years fest.
skunkworks suckup ;)
* archivist just misses all the fun
oh - you are just jealous ;)
I would have loved to have been there.
stuart has quite a lot of machines
good morning.i want use with emc 2.3.0 for override axis control a rotative switch.i thing a mux component .it's unique solution or is possible use the gray conversion?
geo01005: yeah, no spi stuff :-(
i hope to work on it at home some time in the next few weeks
hi skunkworks :-)
seb_kusminsky: Looks like you still have some other things ahead of SPI on the HM2 TODO list?
ugh, the todo list
i think i'll ignore the todo list and hack on spi ;-)
Sounds good to me.
I haven't have much time to work on my reprap lately.
good morning seb.i have acquire of mesa a 5i20 card and 7i64 and 7i46 spi interface.Peter speeck me the development for spi bus.the project is compl,ete?
hi motioncontrol, the spi work is not yet started, but it's the next thing i'm planning to do
ok thenak seb, i thing is good solution for maschine with more i/o.I have the hardware for prove the system.
aha, a volunteer tester! :-)
bka.... Beta Bitch =)
Seb: Made any headway on your mill conversion?
ugh, no :-(
i saw Jon Elson's servo X2 at Fest and it made me all excited to work on mine again
Is yours an X2?
yes. i will free
X2 == Mini Mill ???
Jymmm: yes, http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991
Oh, that thing.... ew
seb also got to jog around the mill jmk was working on..
heh, that pretty much made my trip :-)
and then seeing cradek bust out the facemilling program about as fast as he could type...
yes - scary
seb_kuzminsky: did you see http://jmkasunich.com/pics/pcbmill-table-2937.jpg
i'd have never thought to use g91 incremental mode, but it's so the right way to do that job
that looks great
This look insteresting... can do quad encoders and (R/C) servos... http://www.mil.ufl.edu/~chrisarnold/components/microcontrollerBoard/AVR/avrlib/
Heh... connect a GPS to the spindle and you have total position reference
We dont need no stinking encoders!
see ya. travel time
who was that masked man?????????
So will there be any summary of what happened at the fest?
Seb: You know I will be willing to beta test the SPI code as well.
well - I walked around and looked at things. (That is what I do) So it was a success for me
Did you take your servo amp?
steves_logging brought a 4 brush servo that I played with. (hooked into my servo amp set at 5 amps)
So people would walk by and try to spin the shaft ;)
Anything happen with lathe roughing cycles, or mill pocketing cycles?
Why must CNC machines be so expensive....
cheap if you self build
archivist: Not according to cnczone.com.
[17:33:24] <EbiDK|AWAY> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=618220
uh, 500-750 isn't bad
compared to the 60,000 dollar machine i'm sitting next to
so i guess it depends on your frame of reference
toastatwork: Yeah I know, but my budget is something like 250 EUR and I need it to be able to do 160x100mm PCBs for SMD components
well, i don't know what to tell you?
you could bargain hunt and try to piece together parts that are thrown out or something
i think someone in here got a machine working for around that?
more, but around that
Of course it's cheap compared to getting the PCBs made at http://www.olimex.com/pcb/index.html
(roughly 34 EUR per board for me) but I don't have lots of money available till sometime late next year
[17:37:29] <Jymmm> http://www.batchpcb.com/index.php/Faq
well, you may just wind up having to wait if you really can't afford building the machine
dont buy it all at once
Jymmm: Ooh nice, thanks.
the big thing is it has to have 0 backlash - expecially for surface mount.
archivist: How'd I use it if I don't have it all anyway? :p
i think he's suggesting that you piece it together a little at a time
as you have funds
I started cutting with only 1 axis under cnc
added more as I could
last couple of weeks I finally got to 5 axis
wth did you make with one axis?
first proper work was X Y and A Z being hand worked
toastatwork: Yeah but that's no fun, might as well save up over time and buy it when I can afford it then.
you can be building and learning
I'm already learning at a course, that's why I have access to machines so I could build my own.
I get some materials from the local scrap yard
used an old lathe for parts and an old tool setting machine for parts
new rotary for B and borrowed new rotary for A
archivist: any recent pictures?
time I did another page
but Im chopping and changing daily
damn thing is not big enough
we are actually making some new bearings that would make a really cool A axis
like a trunnion
except fully/near fully supported down the length, instead of just at the ends
most of what stuart does is 5 axis. It was awesome to see them all in 1 place
Im using the 5th axis mainly to set a fixed angle for A, 5 never run at the same time ....yet
BTW, can you get desktop mills for working in aluminum and what's the price range I'd be looking at?
manual or cnc
i'm probably sticking my foot in my mouth but turnkey cnc, desktop form factor, is a couple thousand
Would be nice to have one so if it's not too crazy expensive I might save for one at some point
if you're willing to build it yourself from a manual base, the manual mill is 500 plus the 200-300 in gear you'll need to get it to cnc.
and anyone who says otherwise is right, because I've never built one
toastatwork: What currency?
i have not seen a turnkey cnc package for under 3000
but i do not spend a huge amount of time looking
I should get me a job when I'm done with this course :p would make buying stuff like this much easier
I'm on unemployment benefit and it's also the unemployment people that's paying for the course so they can get some CNC operators :p
my work will let me use any machine that's open
but it takes some time to get them to let you program
If you are only interested in PCB routing have you considered a machine with a wood frame?
geo01005: Will that be sturdy enough?
Depends on how you build it, and what wood you use.
[18:11:44] <geo01005> http://www.cncroutersource.com/cnc-router-plans.html
EbiDK|AWAY: did you look at www.sherline.com yet ?
You could also use a two position Z axis to reduce the cost till you can afford better. Use a solenoid to push the Z axis down...
I have seen that design on some commercial PCB routers.
EbiDK|AWAY: Hello ! I'm also in the process of building a *very* low cost machine , for the same application (PCB) . I used a small window as the frame, and two old ink-printers linear-moving guides
I just had to buy the mini-dremel
all the rest is harvested
BTW, for PCB milling, what is the smallest tool you can find ? I couldn't find one smaller than 0.25mm
piasdom: Yeah, decided it was too expensive but it sounds like my budget is just too small. I'd need the CNC version of this one: http://www.sherline.com/5400pg.htm
EbiDK|AWAY: that's the one i have(CNC)
obinou: Haven't looked into tools yet.
I think for pcb (and only that) , wood should do it, if you choose a good steady wood and a make solid fixitures
to avoid vibrations (my dremel generate very few vibration)
[18:24:04] <geo01005> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1765
I also have doubts about the stepper motors : they are low-cost 7.5degree
and I drive them in 1/8steps
[18:27:44] <EbiDK|AWAY> http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/
What do you guys think of this one?
oh ! and I use drawers slides for the axis: I found some with no lateral jitter
skunkworks, pics quick and dirty http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_05_27_cnc/
EbiDK|AWAY: cool but overkill for pcb milling I'd say
did you did see this line? The base kit is supplied as a mechanical machine kit only. No motors, electronics, spindle or software is included.
Yeah I saw
yes, the bill wil jump the $1000 with that
(NEMA23 motors are expensive, and since they are powerful you need an expensive control card, too)
compared to what?
to nothing: the need is just pcb milling
I was wondering what you consider expensive, since you can drive 3 or 4 axes of average NEMA23 motors with a $100 (or less) driver board
the demo shown is wood milling, at least 2mm deep, full speed. In this case, I can see it's necessary.
yes but 3x NEMA23 motors ?
(plus, I was just making adapter plates to mount my NEMA42 motors to NEMA34 mounts, so NEMA23 doesn't sound "powerful" to me :) )
sure, NEMA23 are tiny
you hit the $200
I use NEMA11 motors :-)
I didn't know they went down that far
I've heard of NEMA17
28x28mm cube ;-)
yeah, sounds it
that might be able to drive the speed adjustment wheel on my Bridgeport
but maybe not
add gearing then it can
you get max. 12Ncm
yeah, probably os
I guess a VFD is a better plan then :)
that's the tradeoff I choose, too
I'm going slooooow ;-)
I have the VFD, and should probably wire it up some day
though the vari-speed head isn't ideal for VFD use
EbiDK|AWAY, btw home brew at its finest http://jmkasunich.com/pics/pcbmill-table-2937.jpg
I think he is using "whats available"
and it is intended for pcb milling
good evening.exist in emc2 the component for convert binary to gray code?
motioncontrol: no there isn't such component
micges: did you have a chance to try out the hm2 stepgen fixes i did at Fest?
nope still wait for machine..
ok.. i think you'll like it :-)
especially velocity mode :)
why do you want velocity mode?
are you using steppers & encoders?
for controlling thc
you'll run a pid loop trying to keep torch voltage at some setpoint, with the output of the pid being the stepgen vel cmd?
will be first plasma
let me know how it works :-)
3 oxygen builded already, last one one mesa
m5i20 or hm2?
last one is that on which bugs show up
ah heh :-/
one question.i have the tool magazine , moved at motor with analog drives and one encoder for position tool.is possible connect the encoder on digital imput on m5i20 , load the encoder component and positioning the magazin tool with a pid component?
I've asked PCW for firmware
motioncontrol: that sounds like it would work
motioncontrol: or you could use the encoder feature of the 5i20 firmware and skip the software encoder counter
all machines on emc2
neat micges :-)
micges: is that twice the same interface here? http://www.uni-kat.pl/images/galeria/sprzedaz/maszyna2.html
micges: all machines?
did you put emc2 on the Haas lathe? :P
oh two machines are not retroffitet yet :)
seb: that is buggy machine: http://www.uni-kat.pl/images/galeria/plazma/plazma03_800_536px.jpg
alex_joni: yes thats two panels
machine is huge
how did you do it?
remote X session?
or VNC of some sort?
or did you use 2 x AXIS?
vga splitter and two sets of usb inputs (keyb and mice) switchable
good evening. excuse for repeat the question but i don't understand.i have on my maschine the tool magazini with encoder for position and the motor for movement with analog drive.can i control the tool magazine ?
one question the pid.c component can call in hal file ?
Having problems to get emc2 to work over a recompilled kernel
"failed to map shmem" error on emc
I think most of the people that could help you with that issue are traveling right now.
can I ask why you didn't use the livecd distribution?
one question please for my magazine tool.can i control the movement the motor magazine with analog drive , with encoder comp and pid component?
Please can i control the tool magazine?
A live cd would probably work, but it doesn't fit my needs. I have non-debian things in my computer that should run along with emc.
thanks anyway, skunkworks
rbertoche: are you trying to find out how to install EMC2?
rbertoche: ah, ok. shared memory problem
rbertoche: you may need to increase your shared memory limit
just solved my erratic/stalling stepper problem
changed everything to sheilded wire, and it went away
noise getting back to driver inputs
shared memory limit is about 20mb right now
simple fix, and probably shoulda started that way, but i'm still amped that it was an easy fix
rbertoche: ok, that should be enough :)
rbertoche: another thing that could cause that is a mismatch between the shared memory IDs (specified in the ini file)
I did not change it
I'd have to start looking at the source to see other possible causes
what ini file?
Guest335, can also be something electronics engineers call noise immunity where the interface voltages are too close to spec
when you start EMC2, you specify an ini file. that's the one
good work, guest335
since my z driver is right next to part of my power supply, should i try and sheild the drive itself somehow?
actually i usually don't
archivist, do you think i should drop the voltage from my i/o board to 3.5 volts instead of 5?
specify an ini file
Guest335, maybe depends which direction the noise is , scope helps so you can see the problem
rbertoche: how are you starting EMC2, and when do you see the shared memory error?
(bbias - gotta get more coffee)
my drives require a resistor if the voltage is over 5v
Guest335: for the logic, or as current limiting to the motors?
what model are the drivers
<SWPLinux> : Well, I simply run "emc" over some console or gui program
from a terminal? from some GUI "Run Command" dialog? ...
does the config picker show up when you run it?
I'm just trying to figure out where in the startup process the error shows up, and how you see it
It happens after selecting an exemple machine to run.
ok, so you get the config picker, choose something like sim/axis, and you get the error
Something like that. I dont see how to create my own machine, though
rbertoche: nothing relevant in dmesg?
alex_joni: I see where the error is printed (rtai_ulapi.c, line 454-ish), and I only see a few places where the function is called
but I don't know what's happened lately to the way the shared memory key is determined (SHMEM_KEY is no longer in the configs)
my guess would be missing udev rules for /dev/rtai_shm
rbertoche: try creating /dev/rtai_shm by hand and see if that works
oh, that's a good guess
we had this for 6.06: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-6.06/etc/udev/rules.d/emc2.rules?rev=1.2
it depends on the rtai version
the 3.6.x we use on 8.04 handles udev just fine (finally)
can't speak for 3.7.x though
* alex_joni is off for tonight
How to create it? leave it blank? don't know what to write on it.( oh, too late.)
Running from i didn't get this error, but got insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime/modules/emc2/motmod.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module univstep_load.hal:7: exit value: 1 univstep_load.hal:7: insmod failed, returned -1
do you have a Pico Systems board?
if not, the driver can't load
?? I don't want it to load. Emc needs it to run?
you selected that config, I presume
Where? don't think so
in the config picker
no, I didn't. The config picker is where you select which machine you want to run?
How can I create a new machine from there? something seems wrong, i can't find it
since you compiled yourself, the config picker probably won't prompt you to make a copy of the config you select
what hardware do you plan to use? (parallel port, Mesa, Pico, STG ...)
I don't want to make a copy, I want to set a new machine
you make a new machine by starting from scratch, or by copying an existing config that's close to what you want and modifying it
or, if you plan to use software step generation on the parallel port, you can use the program "stepconf"
that will create a config based on values you enter into a wizard-like UI
stepconf won't open eithwr
what is the error?
well, someone else will have to continue this. I've got to get on a plane
good luck with it
some problem with opening it from a ln, it does run, but the machine ...
too late again.
... but the machine generated from it won't run either
Actually, this computer won't run any machine for real. It doesn't have a parallel port or IO board.
But the software in it is the same that the real cnc will have
Leaving, gonna check it later