back from paintball, i have a welt where no man should ever have a welt
good night all
gnite alex, sorry toasty, have mama kiss your booboo, might be fun
and its goodnite from me
SWPadnos: could you pastebin "hal show" for the SpaceNavigator?, also which model is it? thanks
I've put it away for now, remind me later (after I get back from my trip)
which would mean the 27th or later :)
is there a # of guest limit to an irc channel??
probably 2^31-1 or something
oh really.. so 180-200 should be no problem
"/list #ubuntu" for a good time :)
1372 users right now
dgarr, from memory, it had 3 axes with 4 items each, plus two buttons and the light
there were count and position values for each axis, and they had names like input.0.rel-rx-counts and input.0.rel-x-counts
I'm not sure what the difference between "rel-rx" and "rel-x" is
oh hmm. maybe I can pastebin it - it's still in the scrollback buffer
REL_RX and REL_X are two axis names that are reported by the linux input layer
[00:42:43] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/1396143
whats the differance between a cat and a group??
dmess, is that a joke/riddle?
jepler, I still don't know what the difference is ;)
other than the 'r'
my wife want to host an anual general meeting on irc
I don't know what a group is in that context
i guess thats the differance.. i have to add ppl to a group as opposed to them just joining the chat
so i guess im better with a chat.. only the live captioner gonna be typing anyway
SWPadnos: I don't think it means much. It just means your device has in its USB HID descriptor that there is a relative axis with 0x3 as its unique index. The HID standard says 0x3 is "RX", and 0x0 is "X".
but if you've got a bunch of doohickes on your device, and they don't really fit what the HID standard describes, you just pick a number and go with it
ok. next time I'll look more closely at how the numbers track
hmmm. OK, it's probably rotation X vs. movement in X
it's a 6-axis device, you can rotate or push the knob in any direction
I should have made a panel or something, since halscope needs care and feeding for scale/trigger ...
Hey, this is pretty good, Runs on gasoline, LPG, or Natural gas... http://cgi.ebay.com/Honda-EU2000i-Inverter-Generator-w-Triple-Fuel-System_W0QQitemZ230337249416QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Generators?hash=item230337249416&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
My new boat... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/Mooney231/Misc/BassMan.jpg
My new camper... http://www.lilligren.com/Redneck/images/redneck_limo_camper.jpg
Martyn is now known as Guest13559
Martyn- is now known as Martyn
several hours of scoping this board out, got down to just the cpu, the clock osc, and the power on reset.
cpu run was intermittant. scope showed it not running ( addr lines dead ), then it was running then not.??
if i push real hard on the probe it runs... awk!! bad socket!
damn i can hear & feel the chip pop out a hair after insertion! dang!
rip of these crap sockets and put on turned pins!
this is why surface mount is good
no can do
I'd hate to buy a bga with 1000 pins
ball seat more better than flat spring seat
lots of consumer bga equipment that works if you push on the chip...
well i built a new board but can find all the phoenix connector for the big devices, dang sunday afternoo taicchung, i give up, will fix back in usa
tpmp : This is why ZIF sockets and similar for TSOP components is also good
haha we used to repair amigas, the 1st step was to take it from the cusotmer, slam it on the counter, hand it back as]n say try it now ;)
just a bad quip socket
I joined a cricket fantasy league
I may not be a hard core techie, but I do know what causes the machines I fix to be broken in the first place
as in british baseball or small insect?
ever since SMT started showing up in machines, and ROHS has caused the loss of lead in solder, vibration has become the #1 enemy
cricket with balls :)
hmm, so leaded solder 'gives' ?
and ROHS compliant solder has a tendendy to 1) form nickel whiskers (BAD!) and 2) Crack .. (very very BAD)
ive noticed it's 'harder'
I keep a little kit with lead-based solder and a portable butane soldering iron along with my circuit tester and logic probe
it's amazing how many "logic board" failures come down to an SMT solid state capacitor having a cracked lead, or a single pin on a TSOP or QFP component having lifted
theres a special soft lo temp solder i use to take smt's off
the nickel whiskers will become an issue in another 5-10 years
the longest ones I've seen so far are still less than a 10th of a mm
tomp : I just use copper desoldering ribbon, and a microvac along with a heat pad on the butane soldering iron
I can take off and replace all but the tiniest capacitors and resistors. They don't tend to go bad though
is the vac device teflon or such?
And when I redo TSOP or TQFP components, I take them completely off, then put them completely back. That way I can just bridge all the pins when putting them on, and do cleanup to free all the pins
a perfect soldering job each time
tomp : It's ceramic
Like I said, I'm no techie :)
At least, not as good as some of the younger guys that work this field .. but I think I do pretty well for being a year short of 50
oh, ok (???) replacing smts gets you at least a junior woodchuck techie badge
I think I've even almost figured out how to get this stupid ip webcam working.
i'm 60 this one, and i cant see some of this stuff
ah, i'm getting outta here, gnit all
tomp : I know the feeling. I got my first pair of work bifocals recently, and I still have to use a jeweller's eyepiece to do some of this work
assargadon_ is now known as assargadon
[10:14:56] <tomp> http://www.plt.rwth-aachen.de/acplt_technologien/acpltks/
Open Source Communication System for Process Control from Aachen Technical University
in english http://www.plt.rwth-aachen.de/acplt_technologies/acpltks/?id=159&L=1
can you recomend a good motherboard for EMC?
I'm interested in the answer too
there are some results in the wiki?
can you recomend a good motherboard for EMC?
will you recomend a good motherboard for EMC?
is the D945GCLF2D ok?
can you describe "good for ECM"
I have 4 computers running EMC and to me they are all good
will work well with soft microstepping, and a 5i23 board.
[13:13:54] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
I think that is two different things software step generation and a 5i23 you would not do both I don't think
ashaw: for a 5i23 most anything would be ok
i thought the 5i23 used soft stepping.
ashaw: well something that doesn't have serious RT issues
no, the 5i23 uses stepgens embedded in the FPGA
D945GCLF2D looks cool on that list.
ashaw: the D102GGC2 you don't want for example
155ms delays can hurt even if you're using a 5i23 + stepgens
D945GCLF2 150ms delay?
because the servo thread runs once every 1 msec
ashaw: I said D102GGC2, not D945GCLF2
bottom of that page
i am looking at the D945GCLF2.
that one looks ok (judging by that table)
but even so, latency doesn't depend only on the motherboard
you can stick a graphics card in it, which messes realtime
or get another revision with some changed chips on it
not in that one.
(unlikely but possible)
or a networks card
i mean to graphics.
only one PCI slot
anyways, what I'm saying is that you can never be 100% certain it's perfect
it's best to try it out, and jugde for yourself
if you're thinking about buying a PC, grab a LiveCD and go to the store to try it out
are you planning on adding extra programming to the fpga on the 5i23?
building from components.
if you're ordering online, that judging by a page like that is your best bet :)
* BigJohnT wonders why you would pick a 5i23 over a 5i20
400k FPGA vs. 200k FPGA
although I bet it wouldn't matter in ashaw's case
you have to add programming to it to need it
BigJohnT: maybe add lots of stepgens :)
6 axis CNC. servo.
ashaw: the 5i20 is probably fine for that too
also, might like to play with the fpga on it.
also for future proofing. only $30 extra
if you needed 8 stepgens, 8 pwm's, and 8 encoders you need the 5i23
* BigJohnT looks at the chart in the manual
ashaw: he means this one http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//drivers_hostmot2.html#r1_8
don't you normally use the pwm + encoder for servos?
BigJohnT: yes you do
that is what i thought.
no stepgens though
stepgens for steppers
BigJohnT: What year is it?
It looks like you Email thinks it is 2004
LOL I had to spin it back to use an old program
forgot to wind it back up
Makes sense. My reader said that there was an unread message. I had to scroll back quite a distance to find it.
sorry about that
np. Thought it was funny.
awww. now there won't be anything to talk about on the user list
hope I didn't open up a time warp worm hole...
some of us with advanced threading mail readers didn't even notice the problem :)
logger_emc bookmark please
I think you need a colon or comma after "logger_emc"
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-04-19.txt
SWPadnos: You mean you don't use the elm client?
crice, not since college
maybe not even then, I might have been using pine
on the hopping fast Personal Iris computers with - get this - 25 MHz CPUs !!
The Glory Days!
a couple in the back even had 33 MHz CPUs - those were always hard to get
lol I'm looking at phones now with 500Mhz cpus
too slow ;)
the Irises did have good graphics though, 1280x1024, 100 bits per pixel
2x 24-bit pixels+24-bit depth, plus 2 bits of overlay and 2 bits of underlay
My video card has 800Mb of ram, not sure what that works out at per pixel ;->
You guys were lucky. I only had punch cards and pen plotters.
but it's not a direct mapping
metrically speaking ;->
I'm not sure how big the actual frame buffer is
good enough for 2x 1080P screens i think
depends on the resolution you choose
I believe the frame buffer memory is seperate from main memory
but since you can probably drive dual monitors at 2560x1600 each, that's a lot of pixels
no, probably not
assuming you mean "main video card memory"
I figured it might be to avoid any latency issues when tracing a frame
I think that texture manipulation and pixel plotting is granular enough that they can interleave the framebuffer reads pretty well
it probably reads an entire line into the CRTC (or equivalent)
then shifts it out while other things are happening
what card do you have anyway? The closest to 800M I know of are 768M or 896M :)
i was rounding
i have nfi how much memory is in this thing
did they even make the 8800 in 512?
well i have one in my computer
it's got a 384 bit bus, so it should be 384 or 768M
yes, that is what i thought
Graphics Processor: GeForce 8800 GT
but whatever, it's still more than a supercomputer had 20 years ago
VBIOS Version: 62.92.16.00.04
oh, GT, not GTX
Memory: 512 MB
the GTX is different
hmmm this is somewhat different to what i thaught it was
Bus Type: PCI Express 4X
somebody swapped it on you
got kids? (who play video games...)
I have a missus
who also has an 8800
I was pretty sure i got the slightly upgraded one
yes the GT makes sence
eh it plays urban terror ok
what phones are you guys using?
looking at new phones for myself and my dad
i have an iPhone
I've been looking for a new one lately. I've got a Motorola Razr V3c at the moment
iPhone here too.
I like the idea of the iPhone, but i hate all the limits of the app store
iPhone 3g, it is ok.
I'd really like an android based phone
I'm looking to get something that runs on Linux though, so some HTC thing, or the OpenMoko might be it for me
but they don't have a GPS
it is not that hard.
well they have one but not an offline GPS
do you need 3g data?
openmoko is pretty limited hardware wise
I'm currently looking at a HTC touch pro for me
qwerty keyboard, windows mobile
yep, those are probably good
though I hate WinMo
same, but at least you can do stuff with it
I have an OpenMoko NEO1973, which I'm about to trade in for a FreeRunner
if you want a portable linux device, have you seen the pandora?
I'll see how well it works
how well does the openmoko one work?
well, I haven't been able to test out the phone functions, since this one doesn't work in the US :)
the screen is pehnomenal
it's full VGA, 640x480
some time soon, I'll change to a provider that uses GSM, so I'll actually be able to see how well the thing works
they fix the 1 day battery life issue?
dunno, I don't carry it around
I think it's been improved though
and you can run android on it
I'd like debian ;->
or a couple of more specific distros
still no linux mapping software though
[14:40:53] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian
well, take a look at dash, maybe some of that code can be used on the stock openmoko
[14:41:26] <SWPadnos> http://www.dash.net/
theres andnav for android based phones but it uses openstreetmap whilst nifty it doesn't look good enough for "mission critical" navigation in australia yet
I want one that works completley off line
tomtom is it then
no internet use at all, its still stupidly expensive here
no tomtom for anything other than wimo or symbian
hmmm. I suppose I should start packing. bbl
that i have seen
if #100 = 10, and i want to move to -10, how do i say g1 X-#100 w/o 'bad format err' ? g1 x[#100*-1] works but is way ugly
no unary minus?
Hey whats is "motion.distance-to-go" used for?
tomp, no, no unary minus
but you could use X[0-#100]
gcose is fugly
I have that sort of bracketed horror all over my code
well, I think you have to remember where it all started
machines that took a serial stream of characters and had to figure out what to do with the least memory possible
true...a long time ago
yea, and what we have today is more or less compatible with that
I do wonder sometimes if the language could do with a syntax update
sure, something like STEP ;)
not looked at STEP
I gather it's actually a language that describes the geometry, not the tool path
so the control can be smarter about choosing how to make the geometry happen (in theory anyway)
SWPadnos: thx 0-fred is prettier
not sure about the machine deciding, because sometimes order matters due to residual strength and rigidity of the item
yeh. i'm all for dumb controllers and smart cam
then the controller can be faster
some times I work ate the margins of the material and need to either support or control the cut
the escape wheel I started on on Friday being an example, second attempt will be tomorrow
the first one was for experiance
yep, that can have problems when the sheets stress is released by a cut opening to outside
we got that a lot in wedm
I think the idea is that the CAM runs at least in part on the machine
the idea behind STEP?
the machine "knows" its capabilities, and the part fie describes the shape of the part, maybe finish, material, etc.
my understanding (which may be entirely wrong) is that it's meant to allow the machine to make smarter decisions, and to alleviate the issues with things like tool offsets
but does the machine know the materiel
archivists point is the machine would need to know the stability of the stock during the cut
(do I offset the path and not use G41/G42, or do I use G41/G42, do I manually fillet inside corners ...)
sure, it can't know everything :)
but you could say "this is titanium" and have the machine choose feeds/speeds based on that
whether you could also have it take lighter cuts when doing e.g. vanes, that's another question
the machine should learn from each job...
heh that will take some writing BigJohnT
read all about it http://www.steptools.com/library/stepnc/
its arguable, IMO i want to state exactly what path i want ( and take responsibity for that decision ), and the control should give me exactly that path.
on that note, I think I'll actually pack now, since I'm getting on a plane in a couple of hours
have a good trip
be safe, load up on C now
* BigJohnT ponders the best way to cope with integral wind up...
haha, dont integrate ( what was that louisiana governer's name?)
Huey P. Long?
newer ( tho i like the stories of huey, wasnt he the modekl in o brother where art thou ?)
I don't remember
jess foolishness, np
bugger ISO wants CHF 252,00 for a pdf copy of STEP-NC... what we need donations for :)
With STEP-NC, a CNC system is given a full description of the part and the manufacturing process.
This description allows the CNC to perform complete safety checking before it begins to make the part,
and it allows the CNC to optimize the manufacturing process for its current operating conditions.
quote from SWPadnos site
, so the CNC can precalc this ( likely has to ture the entire program to do these checks ), so, i got no bitch, but its a large burden on the cnc.
the cnc doenst get to work until after these checks so why cant the step stuff be done prior to the cnc?
wether gcode is used or not is no problem to me, but putting too much on the cnc is not good or wise.
probably the assumption every thing can have a multi core cpu these days
yep seems like all the preplanning should be done on a pre processor
some preplanning is required dont give large jobs to small machines etc
dotn give mill work to the grinder ;)
i'd like to see something side by side, gcode & step. this company behind SWPadnos's link, shows the circle diamond square test program ( an old emc test program, meant to show accuracy of the machine tool ). that would be interesting to see and compare.
[16:05:43] <tomp> http://www.steptools.com/products/stmachine/
shows the cds result form
cds circle diamond square
no ones done it, but the gcode interp could be substituted by dialogs, step, svg... gcode never makes it as far as the drive ;)
I use this "loadusr -W pyvcp Index_pyvcp.xml" in my hal file and seems as though -W does not wait long enough as I get pin does not exist
hmmm "As part of an ST-Machine purchase, we will configure the ST-Machine Explorer and STEP-NC COM DLL for your particular control. " if we group buy one, they'll write the step to emc cnversion ;)
are you using the post gui hal file for your pins?
if I move the line to a diff hal that gets loaded before this one no problem
tomp, there is a small amount of open source on there as well
you might have to use -Wn but I'm not sure http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//hal_basic_hal.html#r1_1_3
the name is the same?
i'll try it
is there a problem with loading it from a different file
not realy just wondering why
now I am too :)
it may have something to do with it is a pyvcp file instead of a component...
-W may only work on components
is the -W waiting for pyvcp to become ready or the component?
I don't know...
-W waits for the componnet to become ready
-Wn means "wait for a component with this name"
does it work on pyvcp panels?
instead of a component with the same HAL name as the file loaded
but since you can name a panel anything (with -c maybe?), you may also have to tell halcmd to look for something other than "pyvcp"
then alSMT_ might have a different problem
i'm loading more than one panel
and that may be it
so loadusr -Wn mypanel pyvcp -c mypanel the_panel.xml
that's why you have to be able to name panels arbitrarily
you use a separate loadusr for each one
I do us a dif loadusr
good thing SWPadnos took a break from packing
I've got this raincoat draped over my arm right now ;)
that line I put in above tells halcmd to wait for something called "mypanel" to become ready
the pyvcp -c mypanel part makes pyvcp name itself "mypanel"
and the xml file is just whatever you want to load
I need to add a paragrah on that in the pyvcp section...
after my nap
good luck with it :)
I never seem to have a problem with napping
have a safe trip SWPadnos
but alSMT_ does this ( loadusr -Wn nameofpanel pyvcp -c titleofpanel panelfile.xml ) and does not get the pins he expects
* BigJohnT wanders off to take a nap
they should be the same
ok, same name
SWPadnos: that worked thanks
? thought thats what you did before
no -Wn and -c
this is what work "loadusr -Wn Index_pyvcp pyvcp Index_pyvcp.xml"
cool, good work SWPadnos, i'll buy you the large packo pretzels on the plane ( the ones with 14 mini pretzels, not just 10 )
pyvcp names itself for the file name by default
or you can tell it to be something different, like "plasma_info" with -c
regardless of the name of the xml file
tomp, thanks :)
maybe I'll upgrade to first class so I can have a cookie too
is it fest already
if you go anywhere that you canuse KLM, they're good prices and great service ( trying to be the leader i guess )
is it soup yet?
hmmm. are they part of the Star Alliance?
i thin so
hmmm. I thought so too, but it doesn't look it
no, they're not, there was a prior alliance of NWA and KLM, but KLM is not part of star alliance
SWPadnos, still getting time for some good answers!
alSMT_: did you get your panels working ok?
pyvcp jog wheel
should I put a example on the wiki
Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.3.0 | http://www.linuxcnc.org
| Channel logged by logger_emc
jepler has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.3.0 | http://www.linuxcnc.org
| Channel logged by logger_emc
BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
cool! I'll update!
alex_joni, that question from ian wright I assume he needs a kinematics module to do that (as I do)
archivist: nope, jepler just replied
he only wants the display to change
and AXIS from 2.3 can do that
ew... /me needs it too
well.. it's fresher than fresh
big decision upgrade before or after I finish the job im in the middle of....
archivist: after! after!
I think that possibly too
but I want to play
what does "distance to go" display the longest axis distance?
SWPadnos: Though, the rest of the website is wacked out =)
alSMT_: it displays the cartesian distance (sqrt(dx*dx + dy*dy + dz*dz) on a 3-axis machine)
he left 5 minutes after asking
JymmmEMC: I'm sure jepler saw that :)
but since logger_emc is around, alSMT_ might read the log later
I hate to even think what took JymmmEMC to that web site
[22:02:23] <alex_joni> http://benheck.com/04-05-2009/commodore-64-original-hardware-laptop#more-496
[23:51:46] <tomp> http://reactivision.sourceforge.net/
"computer vision framework for the fast and robust tracking of fiducial markers attached onto physical objects, as well as for multi-touch finger tracking"
can you put a fiducial marker on a lab rats ass & have emc give it a shot?
and -- cooler than bar codes -- http://code.google.com/p/fidgen/
custom fiduclai markers (tattoo this on the back of your neck :)