yep divide by 128
sorry the fish is gone now
pan fried bluegill better than potato chips
dang lumpy internet
still better than down in MX
was annoying to go to google and end up at google.com.mx Hola!
that would be weird
didnt it have a thing at top asking if you wanted to change, and cancel revret to .en ?
and there some pref yo can set , i keep a 'google us not ataiwan' link in my bookmarks
[00:51:08] <tomp> http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=eN
is always english
in soviet russia, english is always in YOU
buy russian war bonds!
or you could just buy stocks in the defense contractors supplying both sides of the conflict
"if theres one thing i wouldnt be twice, zombies is both of 'em" closing comment of last bmoviedrivein movie
off to work , i hear its easter! sheesh
here's what i want to know
what retarded 77 year old woman intervenes in a swordfight
and is it REALLY the fighter's fault if she dies?
i say, no, it is not.
it's sad that when your brain starts to fail that weird stuff seems real to you
[02:20:08] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/vise-on-2-4-6-blocks-2800.jpg
a bit more rigid than my former setup
jmkasunich, cool... I need a couple of those blocks
jmkasunich: those are the ones on sale at enco this month?
jepler: I got those from a local supplier (via ebay)
pretty much the same thing tho
[02:46:22] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250368868606
in case anybody else needs some, they've listed more:
[02:50:03] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-SET-2-4-6-BLOCKS-NEW-GAGE-BLOCKS-TOOLING-NEW_W0QQitemZ380116000796QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item380116000796&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
dunno how price + shipping compares with the enco sale and a free shipping code
2-4-6 blocks are way more useful than 1-2-3's
toastydeath: I imagine that depends on the kind of stuff you work on
if you have a sherline, a 2-4-6 on the table might make the mill tip over
even on small stuff i like the larger blocks
the guy who runs the grinders made a set of really big parallels
they're like 4x24
flat and parallel to .0002"
I was at HGR today, and saw some even bigger "parallels"
except they're enormous and hard to move
they're 4 wide x 6 tall, you see
what kind of large parallels?
dunno if they are actually accurate enough for setup, but there were two pieces of ground steel, 4" x 4" x 4'
could you tell if they were blancard or straight ground
hopefully they'd be accurate enough for setup then
as long as you have a crane handy
jmkasunich: neat, that looks like just what you needed.
anybody using dapper right now?
does youtube work for you?
the link has a player that is for 8.04 and later only
jmkasunich: wow, the holes in that are the same spacing as your T slots - that's amazing.
not exactly the same
but 3/8" studs in 5/8" holes gives you some wiggle room
I need to get some bolts that are the right length
the nuts extend above the bed of the vise
that's no good
for today's job that was actually an advantage - remove collet block, flip 180 to mill other side, slide against nut to set axial position
but most of the time - no good
my old vise risers were 4 pieces of 2" round, with holes drilled in the middle for the studs
I had bolts the right length, with low heads
what's this project?
specifically tonight? the nut that goes on the back of the spindle and compresses the bearing preload spring
ah, making a square nut?
round, with 2 flats
i had to make 80 tpi locknuts this week
I made a very nice hex nut a while back - only one I've ever done
100 of them
more work than you'd think
what kind of locknut?
3x more work than I needed ;-)
i dunno, it was like a .340 bore or something with a 80 tpi thread, .190" wide, .540 across flats
they go on these ball-ended screws we use for levelling jacks on the bearings
oh, not 0-80, they were large-80
i didn't know there was anything that legitimately had an 80 tpi thread
I was thinking that was a pretty small tap.
yeah 0-80 is NF I think
NF or NC :-)
jmkasunich: what's 0 NF?
dunno, I just know 0-80 is C
but the threads were such a pain in the ass
the boring bar wears so fast
chip gets in the way, poof, bad thread
oh also the bar feed decided to clamp on itself
nope, 0-80 is UNF, there is no 0 UNC (MH Ed. 28)
and try to machine a .190 locknut out of 6" of hardened steel bar pusher rod
the part is .190 long
1-64 is the smallest UNC
oh, that was to cradek, sry
toastydeath: sounds like a nasty job
it wasn't too bad, i'm just irritated that the bar magazine destroyed itself
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
good morning.i have one problem with parallel port. when i use the stepper_mm.ini config file and start emc the terminal see the error: hal_parport.ko : -1 device or resourse busy.i use the live cd because this problem ?
Has anyone built emc2 with Debian Lenny?
motioncontrol: i would believe half the error message "hal_parport.ko : -1 device or resourse busy", meaning theres some problem withthe parport, but not necc that it is busy.
motioncontrol: see if you can see the device in halscope or halmeter ( 1st verify that emc thinks it exists )
maybe this link , http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Parallel_port_no_longer_works_in_EMC_2_0_1_or_later_hal_parport_Device_or_resource_busy
and on same page point 9, testing par port
hmm, you wont be able to test with hal unitl its loaded, so check dmesg fro discovery of the port and for failures of kernel driver to install (.ko)
and pont 5 suggests a 'loadrt probe_parport' before the line loading hal_parport in your hal file. fro 'some' systems
hmm,i wonder if i >can< make relay sockets for orcad
some connections aren't on edge,
they're on a row inside the edge ( eg: 4 formC )
ok thanks tomp i control your help
Hi. I have some question about milling. I have a drawing with polygons. Now I want to countersink it. But I think that the thickness of the cutter is important. Is it correct that I must redraw the polygons in the cad-program and take note of the cutter-radius? I always must redraw it when I use another cutter??? Sorry for my bad english? my german is much better? hoffentlich ;-)
can you explain what you mean by countersink in other words?
very difficult... do you not understand what I mean?
sorry no, I do not understand what kind of milling you mean
do you have a picture of what you are doing?
This machine: http://www.cnc-step.com/S-1000_Fraesmaschine_CNC_STEP_1.jpg
that does not match the question
I use Win-PCNC and I yesterday I installed ubuntu with emc2. Now I want to make some test with this machine and I have draw something with Autocad.
I have draw it 1:1. OK?
ok you are drawing some lines/arcs in autocad
the cutter works along this lines?
that depends on how you go from lines/arcs in autocad to gcode
I think you will need to explain each step for us to understand what you are doing
[14:48:10] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
I don't understand if you already have some part machined and you want to do an additional operation to refine the part, or if you are asking how to get your autocad drawing into gcode
The problem is, that the cutter works along the lines. The cutter has a radius. It's very difficult to describe it...
yes in general if you go to a larger radius cutter, you need to offset the path outward
or, the other option is to use cutter diameter compensation in the gcode
yes you understand me
in autocad if you use a polyline for a closed cutter path, you can use the OFFSET command
ok but i must redraw it for each cutter. If a cutter gets broken I want to use a larger cutter.
sorry I want = I have to
or, the other option is to use cutter diameter compensation in the gcode <- How can I do that... Are there some tutorials?
are you using emc 2.2 or 2.3
[15:00:33] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_tool_compensation.html#sec:Cutter-Radius-Compensation
here are the 2.3 instructions
if you are not using 2.3 you probably want to upgrade to the 2.3 beta before learning cutter radius compensation. It is much easier to use now in 2.3.
here are instructions for updating from 2.2 to 2.3: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.3
I do not have the version 2.3
I have to go now, I hope you can get it working, ask more questions if not, and someone will help
thank you for your help
world news that's based on a guy who lives (or lived) a few miles from me
anyone have a copy of axis.py for 2.2.2?
cvs.linuxcnc.org sure does
I installed a web site editor and realized I have no idea what to do with it :)
If I had not looked outside I would not know it is snowing.
[ 4223.280858] 66: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay: check dmesg for details.
[ 4223.280920] In recent history there were
[ 4223.280924] 558163, 545503, 565277, 546100, and 504211
[ 4223.280929] elapsed clocks between calls to the motion controller.
[ 4223.280956] This time, there were 622030 which is so anomalously
[ 4223.280962] large that it probably signifies a problem with your
[ 4223.280967] realtime configuration. For the rest of this run of
[ 4223.280973] EMC, this message will be suppressed.
did you look up realtime delay in the wiki?
this didn't show on 2.2.8
it did if you had an unexpected real time delay
just went to beta and here it is
what kind of system?
i'm using a base period of 40000
any cd in the drive?
if you are talking to me no
what about a usb key drive?
same computer as before?
does the videocard share main memory?
do you still have the 2.2.8 installed?
I can get back but ?
I get this on my system too, latency test results are mediocre, but nothing like 1/2 second delays
then I run emc, and I get 1/2 second delay
i'm running classicladder also could this be a problem?
I have a theory that it's related to the startup, but I'm too lazy to figure out how to test that
has something changed since you ran 2.2.8?
let me try a diff configuration i have
need a hal pin called "overrun"
why would this not show up with 2.2.8
if you told me why it shows up, I could answer that
what was your max latency on the latency test?
i have'nt ran it since year in half she ran fine on 2.2.8
what's the CPU speed?
it looks like it might be 1.2GHz
I wonder how it was working on 2.2.8
it's a little slow, but that shouldn't be the problem
I'm looking at the servo period clocks (~500k) and trying to fit that into a 40000 base period
before having enough coffee to realize that it's off by an order og magnitude :)
alSMT_, there aren't many changes to that code in 2.3 beta2 (relative to 2.2.8)
so there's either a change in RTAI (which I don't think is true - I don't believe there's a kernel change for 2.3), a change somewhere else in HAL, or another change (drivers, etc.) that's causing it
2.3 changes the kernel?
which X driver are you using? (VESA or i810)
no, I just said the opposite of that :)
ok, if that driver has changed, that could do it
redin' comprenshen problem
you might try VESA, though it will slow things down a bit :)
the driver shouldn't have changed?
too bad there's no such thing as a hardware debugger any more
if you've kept the system up to date, it could have
eric_unterhause1, there is, but they're $250k now
how do I ck witch driver is being used?
you can look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log
search for "Driver", and you'll see all the loaded drivers
or look for i810 or VESA
I am attempting to use a Mesa Electronic's 7i43 board and would like some clarification of how to address a gpio pin in hal.
One version of the man hostmot2 tells me it should be hm2_7i43.0.gpio.IONum, another tells me it should be hm2_7i43.0.gpio.PortName.PinNum.
I've posted the error output of the startup of EMC on Pastebin M3e0d3bed.
Goslowjimbo, comment out the lines in your HAL file that try to connect to GPIO pins, then run EMC2
while ENC2 is running, run halmeter from the Machine menu (I think), and look at the pin list
or, you can run halcmd and use "show pin hm2_7i43" (without the quotes)
The only line I've edited is the 3rd from the last, trying to link an Estop signal to physical pin 41 as an output.
are you asking what the names are, or how to figure out which pin has what name?
you can easily see the names by using halcmd while EMC2 is running
I believe I am asking how to figure out which pin has what name.
well that's a harder problem (for me :) )
I believe the hostmot driver puts a full pin list in dmesg, so if you run EMC (even if it fails), you can use "dmesg | less" to look at the available pins
I believe there are also pinout files in the firmware directory, but I can't tell you where that is on an installed system
The Dmesg is what I put on Pastebin. It has 2 listing for each pin. I don't know what the IONum or PinNum is on that listing.
is that pastebin.ca, pastebin.com, or somewhere else?
which firmware are you using?
this directory has the pin files for all the 7i43 firmware: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/firmware/7i43/
I posted it a few hours ago on .com (i thought). Can't find it now.
I'm using the latest revision as of a month ago.
look in the directory I just posted, find the PIN file for the firmware you're using (there are several), and look at the list of pins in that file
it clearly tells you which connector pin maps to what I/O or other function
there are several different firmwares you can use with the 7i43, so "the latest" doesn't tell me much :)
bbl - gotta go change some tires
I'll have to go back to the machine to determine exactly. I have both the Ubuntu 8.04 live distibution and a CVS version on the same machine.
is it a problem for me to change the TRAJ_PERIOD =10300000 and the SERVO_PERIOD = 1030000 in the ini file
Does anyone know how to make the step pulse stay high for longer then 50000ns?
is it a problem for me to change the TRAJ_PERIOD =10200000 and the SERVO_PERIOD = 1020000 in the ini file when I change these my error message go away
I don't think you'll be happy with that
why is that
these days, TRAJ_PERIOD mighta s well be the same as SERVO_PERIOD
so they can both be 1020000
will this be trouble?
I don't think it will matter much having a 1.02 ms servo period instead of 1.0ms
don't think so
steppers or servos though?
ok, no PID then
note that this doesn't solve the problem, it only makes it so EMC won't give you messages about it
doesn't that mess up his steppers?
and it's 10ms isn't it?
the real problem is that there's a timing issue from time to time, and it happens to be very close to the threshold for EMC to warn you about it
no, TRAJ_PERIOD is more or less unused these days, but it was generally 10x the servo period
it used to bo 10ms TRAJ, 1ms SERVO, and as fast as possible BASE
that is the only thing I changed in the ini file
this is a bit like putting blinders on a horse - it doesn't make the distractions go away, it just makes the horse not see them ...
my latency test came out the same as before
ok, that's good to know
SWPadnos: do you know which file keeps track of the real-time delay?
or do I have to be a big boy and find it for myself
* SWPadnos looked it up earlier ;)
bbl - food time
I just want to change it to spit out a dialog box every 1000 times it happens
I thought there was a HAL pin with the number, but I didn't look for it
maybe add that instead
oh hey, there it is (maybe)
so I can have a halmeter?
i have a hal question :)
when I ran latency test I noticed that my servo period was above the 1.0ms
we have our laser engraver set up to turn the laser on when Z is negative
eric_unterhause1, yex, motion.servo.overruns
it's a param
I'd like to enforce the positiveness of Z before the start of a job
now I'm really leaving. see you
or jog z to +0.001 or something when the user hits "stop"
is that kind of thing possible?
hi. I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers to do a closed loop spindle RPM control. I have an encoder on the spindle hooked up to a scale to output actual spindle RPM which is connected to the motion.spindle-speed-in. The spindle speed is controlled by a pwmgen channel, but since the pwm duty cycle is not linear to the actual spindle speed, I'm trying to figure out a way to have the HAL dynamically adjust the pwm
why is it not linear?
guest3673456: could you try a PDM output?
pulse density modulation
i have a sieg X1 which has a potentiometer to control the speed. I replaced the potentiometer with a board i made which uses the pwm signal from the parallel port to charge a capacitor to create the reference voltage so I don't think it's linear, I think it follows the RC curve
often you get something fairly linear but with an offset
the output is from emc, right?
should be mostly linear
pwmgen has scale/offset to let you adjust this
the speed control works with commands like m3 s4000 but the rpm's don't match
and i was hoping to find a way to hook it up for EMC to self adjust the RPM based on feedback between the spindle in speed and spindle out speed
sounds like cradek has your solution
@dareposte: yes, the pwm signal is from emc through pwmgen out a parallel pin port
you are wanting a feedback loop then?
yes, i would like to figure out how to setup a feedback loop
he wants a non-linear scale
he wants to use the spindle encoder to feedback to like a PID loop or something
yeah, exactly, so it wouldn't matter if the speed control pwm was linear or not
the easiest way would be to do what cradek said, use the offset/scale to get it close
you can definitely do it with pid
when I tried that, it didn't tune very well, because the spindle is so slow to respond
but no reason not to try it
i would prefer to use the pid loop so the machine could maintain spindle speed when cutting
i think i understand how to setup the pid loop
except for the output
the output would be a positive or negative number which is related to the difference in the actual speed and expected speed?
no, the output of pid would be the pwm to drive the motor
the output should be the corrected speed for pwmgen
if the pid loops sees your motor is too fast, it will reduce the pwm speed
pid takes "desired", "actual" and gives you an output that tries to drive the difference ("error") to zero
(the difference to last time will be negative, but the actual output is the lower speed)
let me try hooking it up to a pid component and see what it spits out with the default settings. I'm a little confused as to what the output would be if say the command=4000rpm and the feedback says 4000rpm, but let me hook it up and see waht it spits out for the output
if command=4000rpm, and feedback=4000rpm, the output will be 4000rpm
and the PID will be stable
(that means the output doesn't change)
but you need to scale the output to fit the pwmgen
i think i understand
i want to try that too, guest
let me know how it goes
i have a single index pulse on my spindle, and a PDM driven analog speed controller
my rpm's are pretty close to what i request, but it would be nice to have it linked that way with a feedback loop
yeah me too!!! interesting pointers above, my spindle has a 360ppr quadrature encoder, and a pulse train frequency driven VFD - problem is I know nowt about PID loops!
do your rpms match pretty close?
so with gcode, is there a major cost to doing math?
I'm not paying attention to you guys, I have to get the mill running lalalalalala
i could do scaling in my code generator, or I could leave variables at the top of the code and a multiplication on every line
which is best practice?
dareposte they are within perhaps 1% so if I command 1000, the encoder shows 995 rpm
plenty close for government work
Optic, the amount of time it takes to do the math is insignificant compared to the time it takes to interpret the ASCII G-code into usable numbers
hehh ah but it would be nice to maintain speed during cuts that may be just a little too heavy etc
so i might as well leave the math in the g-code and allow easy tweaking
i got it hooked up to the pid, but i think i need to setup the parameters. I can see the commanded rpm and the feedback rpm, but output is at zero. I'm reading the man page for the pid to see what i need to tweak
i'm going to be amazed if emc can compensate for the crappiness of my speed board. It's just an optocoupler i had lying around and a few resistors and a capacitor.
the good thing about that is it's constant at least
guest3673456: there's an enable for pid too iirc
and you need to add the function to a thread
got the function added to the servo-thread already. I missed the enable pin.
also can you have comment-only lines in gcode?
just put them in ( )'s
hmm, it kind of works
guest3673456: you now need to tune the PID
so it stops oscillating, or whatever it's doing :)
it seems to have steady stated at pid.command=1001 pid.output = 679 pid.feedback=323
that sounds wrong
you need to get scales right, for this to make sense
would it matter what my output scale is? I'm thinking that if the feedback value is under the command value it would keep on increasing output to compensate until the feedback and the command do match
unless it saturates
my pwm scale is 4000rpm
and my feedback and command are both from 0 - 4000rpm
how did you enter pwm scale 4000 ?
setp pwmgen.0.scale 4000
I don't think that's right
hmm, i interpeted the pwmgen as when pwmgen.0.value == pwmgen.0.scale then duty cycle = 100%
the higher the duty cycle the higher the voltage my board puts out to increase spindle speed
hmm.. you're right
it's ok I guess :)
so at 100% duty cycle, the spindle runs at 4000 rpm?
i could be wrong though, this is my first experience really messing around with the hal
at 100% duty cycle i measured the spindle at about 3800rpm
you can enter 3800 then :)
does your feedback also indicate 3800 at 100% duty cycle?
let me crank up the commanded speed all the way and see waht it says
pid.0.command = 4001 pid.0.feedback=~ 1780 pid.0.output = ~2220
pid.0.error = ~2220
sounds like it's still compensating..
P is probably way small
hmm, pid.0.Pgain = 1
let me try messing around with the tuning params to see if i can get it to compensate better
i don't want to waste everyone's time on stuff I can read about myself :-)
guest3673456: no harm in asking..
am I weird for naming each of my two uc stepgen modules?
the x-axis is Leona, and the other is Zack
I think I'll call the TP Bob
Bob sounds like a good name
solid and all
actually, Bob fits because of the clunkiness
i like to call my x and y stepper axises lurch and hissy :-)
I'd settle for pugsley and wednesday
so, I herd you leik milling, so put a tp in your tp so you can interp while you interp
i think i'm getting closer... I bumped the pid.0.PGain from 1 to 10 and now i'm within 300rpm of error
alex_joni: wow -- that's got to be the article with the highest "citation needed" density
guest3673456: also add some FF1
that way the spindle will start changing speed when you command a new speed, not after some error builds up
I'd put FF1 =1 for testing
ah, i think i'
i'm beginning to understand
i think i'm steady stated with feedback != commanded because my Igain is too low
the Pgain gets me into the ballpark
and the lgain and Dgain fine tune it
my IGain and DGain are zero by default so there is actually no learning feedback
haha, that was scary, i changed my IGain from 0 to 1 and the mill went from 500rpm to full speed
long time accumulating errors :D
* alex_joni is off to bed
good night all
night, thanks for all you help!
guest3673456: it was probably nothing ;)
i owe you a virtual beer somewhere :-)
I don't drink any..
not even virtual one ;)
virtual root bear :-)
better, but still yucky :D
make it a virtual iced tea
whee, my fuel pump repair works great
of course, I should have taken a picture before I put it back together.
fuel pump for your car?
yes, made some new check valves for the fuel pump in my '52
the original design was flawed - it used rubber valves
that sounds pretty cool. is it hard to make a check valve?
the problem was it had to be flat so a ball valve couldn't fit. I just made reed valves out of brass - simplest possible design
guest3673456 btw is it possible you could perhaps post your hal file etc to the wiki once u have the spindle speed pid stuff sorted, as an example for others (me included) to look at and learn?
Running a threading code and the encoder count is not resetting every time during the threading cycle. What should I look for?
@pjm: not a problem. I think I almost got it working. I'll post the hal file after I got it working
great! thanks a lot
i will apply the same control to my mill soon
Do you have a speed control board already?
ugg, i should really change my name
guest3673456 is now known as FlyingElectron
well i use a parpin from the PC and the stepgen in velocity mode
so i have a 0 to 6GHz square wave that feeds the VFD
sorry i mean 6KHz...
the pid loop actually did the trick
spindle rpm goes into the pid feedback
target rpm goes into the pid commanded value
currently i have displayed on axis the commanded speed and the actual speed
is it hard to get axis to display the rpms? It wasn't obvious how to get it to show it
its pretty simple i recall, let me have a quick pick thru the files here
[22:02:16] <pjm__> http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/pjm_emc2_configs_230109/configs/my-mill/rpm_display.txt
- this is what i added to panel.xml
to give u a commanded rpm and a bargraph of the actual speed
then in my custom_postgui.hal i added net spindle-speed-ppr-filtered pyvcp.rpm
look right at the bottom of http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/pjm_emc2_configs_230109/configs/my-mill/custom.hal
- it has the rpm conversion, a low pass filter to take the jitter out of the displayed rpm etc
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
what kind of mpg are you using
i bought one from the little machine shop
ah no it wasnt there, let me find it
[22:19:40] <pjm__> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=158
this is the item
i should have added it far sooner than i did, it is tedious to say the least without one
is it a good unit
i put another quadrature encoder on the Z axis control box too, currently its configured for a spindle speed override, but i'll eventually have its use selectable between spindle, feed override, and Z position
have a spare encoder im not using,may try to display my rpms
I added the info about how to do closed loop spindle speed control to the wiki along with the HAL file code that is needed
[22:32:28] <FlyingElectron> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Closed_Loop_Spindle_Speed_Control
ah great!! i will read and digest
i will try that tommorow
tight time to hit the hay, gn all
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
what's the equation relating a capacitor's capacitance and it's rolling average period?!?!?!