I have a question about pci parallel cards, can you help
I don't know
Throw it out there - lots of people watching intermittantly
have VSCom parport that cant get to function with emc2
I have listed this problem recently on the emc-users
tried lspci -v
got 4 addresses
1 caused errors in axis, Device or resource busy
the other three cause no errors but there is no output
hal config works with built in parport
just change address in line loadrt hal_parport cfg
after looking around on the wiki found that probe_parport
I am puzzled by how it says "Serial controller .... "
looks for one type of pnp port
as am i
but comparing th lspci before install of pci to after install
did you try loading probe_parport?
that is the only difference
no, that's bad advice, sorry
I think that's only for PnP parports
yes there is loadrt probe_parport in the hal finle
what are the chips on the card? I think the kernel doesn't think it's a parallel port.
the only chip I see has VSCom on it
|dareposte|: well, it depends there are lots of carbide variations
|dareposte|: honed edges and small radii and different rake's.. and chip forming...
baden0001: do you know the model number?
pci-010l is printed onto the card
I have to run, I hope you get it figured out
fenn_ is now known as fenn
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
question: if I'm trying to make a radius in my lathe, do i use a G3 or a G2, and do I have to program G18 first?
depends, and yes
so if i'm going towards the chuck, and my tool is on the near side of the z axis, then i would use G2 for cw?
assuming G18 is the xz plane
Z is positive away from the spindle, right?
are you making a fillet or a rounded corner?
yes and a rounded corner
just confused a bit by the center format arc
then i think you want to go counterclockwise (g3)
i dont know what you mean 'near side of the z axis'
if i start at the tip of the piece, and work to the left
i,j are incremental relative to the current position
i hate i,j format for hand written code
oh wait, i hate g-code in general
yeah i'm sufficiently confused
i was thinking i could take a few arc passes to get to the right diameter without taking a huge cut, but it seems too difficult to figure out
maybe rough it out with some turning passes to get it close, then take one arc pass
you could add a diameter offset to the start and endpoints
how on earth would i go about doing that?
sounds clever, i like it
G1X123+#<_offset> ; g2 X456+#<_offset>
put that in a function and change _offset between function calls
gotta figure out g-code functions i guess
in fancy cam software they usually take the maximum step cut and then knock off the corners and then take a finish pass with the true arc
i doubt that's optimal though; professional cam software is not a shining example of the triumph of mathematics
i need a windows backplotter
or to install linux on my laptop
reading the directions... it seems like this should make a quarter circle
g0 x0 z0
g2 x5 z-5 k-5
with radius 5mm
am i even remotely close?
sounds close to me
hm wonder why it's not working
I guess you might want G3
you might want g2 x5. z-5. k-5.
the decimals make no difference to emc2
I think it's g2 z5 x-5 i-5
if you're doing a fillet vs. a rounded corner
and it's the G18 plane
arc directions appear backwards with lathes because the Y+ direction is away from you instead of toward you as it should be
(as in, coming out of the screen)
oh yeah that worked
what's Y on a lathe?
centerline adjustment, if the machine has it
there isn't a Y axis, but in the coordinate system as presented, it would stick out the back of the monitor instead of out the front
to maintain a right-handed coordinate system
except it ran backwards
then start at the other end and use G3 ;)
but he's not moving in Y
yeah that worked SWPadnos
i did g3 z-5 x5 k-5
and it did what i wanted
although it is clearly making a clockwise arc
positive X is towards the operator or away?
as it draws it in Axis
for me its towards operator
liek I said, the motion seems backwards because Y (if it existed) would be pointing away from you
it's like looking from the bottom of the XY plane
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
makes sense sort of
assuming you are viewing axis from the positive Y direction?
oh wow that is definitely going to crash for sure
* fenn suggests putting a potato in the lathe chuck
then at least you can deep fry the chips
i conveniently just bought some
i am trying to put a 4mm radius on a part
and i'm pretty sure my wimpy lathe won't do it in one go
what size insert?
so i gotta step it before i turn it, or figure out a way to do what was suggested earlier of working in on the radius
dunno about the insert, i forgot already
i think its a tpg222
or something to that effect
its a small triangle with no hole in it, standard insert
I am building a Sim on this computer using the Compiling (CVS Versions) directions from the wiki
I followed all the commands there and went to MAKE and got
./configure --enable-run-in-place --enable-simulator
err - wrong paste
configure: error: Required library 'readline' missing.
Actually - that occurred during the .configure command - any suggestions on how to proceed?
did you do `apt-get build-dep emc2` ?
I think I went through this recently, and have forgotten everything
Hmmm.... reading http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Pure_Simulator
- bottom of page "Compiling"
hmm the wiki seems to be rather incomplete
it says "The CVS versions of emc2 can be built in pure simulator mode, requiring no kernel patches, kernel modules, or root access. G-code files can be previewed or backplotted, and non-hardware-driver HAL components can be used, all running under a debugger if desired. "
I took that to mean I could skip the steps above
but you need a couple of libraries
Perhaps I misinterpreted that?
I believe so
I compiled the sim because I'm using 8.10 64bit AMD
you can install and do those things, but you still need many of the dependencies
what version of Linux are you compiling on?
BMG: this is what i would do http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_with_EMC2_and_RTAI_kernel_already_installed
otherwise you have to get all the different -dev packages manually
THis comp is 8.04 and it is not a RT version - its in my office - machine is downstairs
not using it to run the router
it doesn't matter if it's rtai or not
i guess that wiki sub-heading could be phrased better
Alright - back to square one - I will redo from the page you referenced
you should be able to dollow only the sections about "preparing to compile" and "simulator only"
follow, not dollow
you could also just install the sim packages
since you're on Ubuntu 8.04 and everything
oh hey: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Simulator_Build_On_Ubuntu_8_04_Hardy_Heron
SWPadnos: yeah but how do you know that list of packages is correct?
we should find out soon ;)
if you get an error in ./configure, search for the missing dep in synaptic
that page is too damn long
too many options on where and how and on what to install
makes my head hurt, "math is hard"
case if emc2 AND debian: blah blah blah; if emc2 AND ubuntu NOT RTAI: blah blah blah
SWP - that looks suspiciously like http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Pure_Simulator
Same libraries - just in a single line
build-essential was missing
BMG: you should follow EMC2_Pure_Simulator and if it doesn't work, fix it :)
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
if you have the EMC2 source, there's a file called debian/control.in, which has the list of dependencies
it's not trivial to read, but if you stare at it for a few minutes, it should become clear(er)
configure should whine about what is missing
then apt-get install <whatever>-dev
or apt-cache search <whatever>
it does, but it seems to only do it for one thing at a time
no, because you could be compiling on red hat, for instance
Staring has not gotten me very far yet...
fenn and SWPadnos: thanks for your help, the part turned out great
Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0),@KERNEL_DEPENDS@,@KERNEL_HEADERS@,@EXTRA_BUILD@,g++,make,libc6-dev,tcl8.4-dev,tk8.4-dev,libgtk2.0-dev,libncurses-dev,gettext,libxaw7-dev,libreadline5-dev,lyx-qt | lyx,python,tetex-bin,python-dev,libglu1-mesa-dev,libgl1-mesa-dev,libgnomeprintui2.2-dev,bwidget,tetex-extra,xsltproc,groff
you can get rid of the @KERNEL_DEPENDS (and anything else with @)
things that are separated by | means this or that (so you only need lyx-qt or lyx, not both)
you actually dont need either
that'll shave off 400mb of downloads
I don't know - lyx may be needed to generate manpages
I appear to be spiralling backwards
no that's done with groff
I will tackle this tomorrow eve
BMG, note "libreadline5-dev" in that list?
configure told you that you don't have readline installed
so you need to install libreadline5-dev, and then configure will tell you the next thing that's missing
or you can install more or less every package in that list, and configure (and the build) should complete
glackins@glackins-desktop:~$ apt-get install libreadline5-dev
E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13 Permission denied)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
these packages: g++,make,libc6-dev,tcl8.4-dev,tk8.4-dev,libgtk2.0-dev,libncurses-dev,gettext,libxaw7-dev,libreadline5-dev,lyx-qt,python,tetex-bin,python-dev,libglu1-mesa-dev,libgl1-mesa-dev,libgnomeprintui2.2-dev,bwidget,tetex-extra,xsltproc,groff
sudo apt-get ...
only the admin can install stuff ;)
night night ;)
glackins@glackins-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get libreadline5-dev
[sudo] password for glackins:
E: Invalid operation libreadline5-dev
I see it
sudo apt-get install stuff ;)
silly mistakes when tired
only other config error was configure: WARNING: Xaw lib missing
oh yeay, there it is
yep - installing
configure: error: Required header Python.h missing. Install it, or specify --disable-python to skip the parts of emc2 that depend on Python
Its looking for Python 2.5 - I tried to add and it said I have it - how do I check the version?
of what I have
I tried sudo apt-get install python.h as well and it could not be found - any other suggestions?
did that - no effect
ran it again and its installing - must have had a typo
what might be easiest would be to run synaptic
err - nevermind that, my buffer had scrolled
got it installed - now a open GL error on configure
take the list of packages I pasted in here, replace the commas with spaces, and install all of them
anything that is already installed will not be re-installed
Guest264 is now known as skunkworks_
doing it now - looks like the wiki could use an update
damn. should I have more cheese and crackers, or go to the store to get some sausage or chocolate covered donuts?
how bout cheese filled chocolate covered sausages
crud - Its installing every language package
hmmm. I don't think I've seen those
dont install the lyx and tetex packages
then up-arrow and edit the install line
or not, whatever
* fenn goes to be
how bout tetex-extra
I guess it'll be the donuts: http://entenmanns.gwbakeries.com/op-prod.cfm/prodId/7203000018/catId/5
wow your donuts have their own website
lets see if sudo apt-get install g++ make libc6-dev tcl8.4-dev tk8.4-dev libgtk2.0-dev libncurses-dev gettext libxaw7-dev libreadline5-dev python python-dev libglu1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libgnomeprintui2.2-dev bwidget xsltproc groff works
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
should, if you leave out "works" :)
I want "works" to work
# It seems that ./configure completed successfully. #
apt-get hold the anchovies
grrr - wrong window
Make is making it so far...
why do isp's always insist on asymmetrical lines :(
it takes ages to upload anything
I'ms ure they'd be happy if you chose to pay 10x as much for SDSL
they'd probably be happy if i just paid for it
10x more is like a rent check
i have to assume it's artificially limited, because the DL speed uses the same wires as the UL speed
no, it's also power and RF emissions limited
the transmitting equipment at the telco is probably FCC class A, but the stuff sold to consumers needs to be class B
well that's disappointing
i always imagined some mean guy sitting at the switchboard, throttling my uploads
the mean guy is at the FCC I guess :)
I'm sure there are other considerations, but it's not all ISP malice
SWPadnos: Here's what you did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77FmvLvMplg
by helping with the radius
I was going to deny everything :)
i made a decent sized pile of chips today
not sure why youtube always makes the video so crappy
so they can charge you more for the good version?
err, I meant to save bandwidth
that's cool. you could make a knob with that part :)
it's supposed to be a weight
part of a 3-piece set
for competition archers I believe
not sure how to get rid of that little nub on the front though :(
i guess my tool's radius is too big for facing
or i should go past x=0
to x=-2 or something
the corner radius is 1/32"=0.8mm
is the tool "vertically" aligned withthe spindle axis?
yeah very close
i think maybe i could go 2 radiuses past the centerline to get rid of it
were you using tool offsets when you did the facing move?
yeah, or one plus a little
no i just have it as tool 1 for turning and facing
but yes i was using tool offsets for tool 1
huh. I guess I'd expect it to "just work", but I really have no experience with g-code ...
aside from hacking through it a few lines at a time
cradek helped me with the tool offsets
i think there is a radius compensation feature but I haven't attempted to use it yet
i just now got a tool on there where i actually know the radius :)
are you using a lathe-style tool table?
that's happy-making, I just got my lathe to turn with the vfd
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
ren_encee is now known as renesis
k its me
okay so the 6-8ipm stepper desyncing went away when i turn ustepping off or set to half set
readjusting gibs and mount blacks and etc etc did nothing
k thats it
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
I'm thinking with my direct drive servo setup, using long mag motors for the drives
20A @ 130 volts or so peak
using the big 175V mesa 2Kw controller
and i'm wondering what to use for the power supply
Part of me is leaning towards 12 smallish lead acid batteries and hacking up a ~200W charger for it that is ok with running while under load
IE just a CC/CV charger that will stick half an amp in until the voltage reaches ~80% charge on the lead acids then it'll just sit there
a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
pjm_, good morning, is your spindles encoder on the parport as well as speed control
its all on parports
i've optimised the machine control down to just 2 parports now
excluding the jog wheel pendant of course
I might have a go on doing speed and tapping etc if I can find enough scrapbox shrapnel
the spindle encoder has differential outputs, i made an opto board to convert that back into single ended ttl, made no difference at all, so now i'm connecting the spindle encoder direct
archivist yes do that!!! it will be cool. I tried tapping an M8 hole but my motor ran out of omph, so I need to find a new motor and replace my existing one
I have a couple of encoders to try or Ill make a disk to suit the pully
i built a 32 and 64ppr encoder just to play with, but it resulted in non smooth operation, then again that was with the v2.2.8
but the new v3.2beta is perfect
John Stevenson is coming around on Friday I wonder if I can get it screw cutting by then
ah is that the guy from the emc list?
i should have replied too, perhaps he can stop here for a cuppa on the way back!
had some stories on the phone yesterday
he only lives 20 miles from me
ah that is handy
there was also a guy from redruth
i think i read that correctly anyway
i think mach3 people should all be converted
he can talk to Les in Bidiford
now I hear more about mach3 yes :)
its a nightmare from what i have read, i looked closely at it when i started on the cnc project about this time last year
seems geckos are not blameless also
ah i've never used those
they are sposed to be ok
btw, bloody breaking resistor!!!
u cannot believe how much c**p is emitted from the connecting wires, more than a few V p-p when u hold the scope probe within an inch of the cables
and with the resistor connected, you can see impulse noise all over the 5v supply for the logic
so i spent an hour in a de-coupling frenzy last night
everything is using screened cables, all bonded to a single earth point
except the mains input to the VFD from the line filter
common mode currents
that isnt screened, and neither is the braking resistor connections
so next step was to replace the braking resistor cable with some screened mains cable
and see if that fixes it, I'm hopeful that it will
archivist i have a handful if encoders around if u are stuck for something
all but the 18000ppr one is available ;-)
I should be ok here with what I have (except the will need belt drive) or I make a special
archivist btw i updated the http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
page with some photos of the updated machine including the box for the rats nest
I still have the open rats
hehh mine needed to get in a box because i was worried bits of swarf could get on it
and let out that precious magic smoke
yup I worry about the PC vent holes and swarf
just cading up a scalar feed for 32GHz, so should be able knock one out before lunchtime ;-)
bah /me has to work
pjmcnc, pjm_ : cool stuff
anyone have any ideas http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,0/func,view/catid,18/id,55/lang,en/#55
my P4 works ok
thanks for looking archivist
but he has not got real time loaded
do you think the install got borked?
- this is what i love about EMC, it facilitates ideas to lumps of metal in a short time
this might be a clue "Module rtai_hal is in use"
ah already running emc
pjm_, yup some stuff is nice and easy
pjm_, what type of ally
pjm_: nice piece of metal :)
archivist no idea, some off cuts me dad give me from a job
looks reasonable, not the sticky pure stuff
its probably aircraft spec stuff since he makes a lot of parts for airbus
hehe proper ally
that feed was made using a 1/16th cutter, with pretty slow feed
yeah proper! dont bind up the cutter
let me ask
its '6082 HE30' what ever that means!
the ally that is
not a common alloy but I bet a good one
6061 is the most common and it is gummy and sticky when you cut it
yeah for some reason i have a nice pile of offcuts of this stuff, random sizes, but very suitable for the small stuff i make
this part is the feedhorn for a 32GHz receiver system i've got prototyped on the bench
[12:10:45] <archivist> http://www.aircraftmaterialsuk.com/data/aluminium/6082.html
* justa can't wait to get time next to re-doing his appartment to start proper work on a CNC of his own *whine*
archivist: 160v 20a - no smoke.
the servos are pretty much 1:1 - so we where measuring 20ft-lbs of torque
I have a box full of servos headed my way
nice! what from?
some giant knee mill with a huge circle around it for a tool changer
man - the mill would have been neat to have :)
I can get it if I want it but no room at the moment and it is safe where it is
your toy is big enough skunkworks
we are thinking 2:1 reduction to the 3tpi ball screws. That will give aprox 200ipm
who wants to calculate the force? (at 20ft-lbs torque at the motor)
that is about what my bp is
alex_joni I remember sometime ago I ran across a program I think you generated to write g code to mill a pocket. If it was yours where can I access it?
archivist thanks Iguess thats where I saw it!
BigJohnT: I doubt that line is a clue
I was guessing :O
it happens on shutdown, when it tries to remove stuff
the segfault is the important stuff, but hard to figure out, especially since he changed PCs
so what do people think of my evil plan to run 150 volts worth of lead acid batteries as the power supply to 2x of the 2Kw mesa controllers
with a ~300W CC/CV charger sitting there to keep the batteries topped up
what is your mains supply voltage? 110v ?
if so u could just rectify that
that's bad advice. you would end up with no isolation if you did that.
ah yes via a suitable big isolation transformer of course, like one of those yellow 'power tools' ones
I thought about a "bad boy" supply but even then you cant suck 8Kw out of the wall
(bad boy = non isolated)
hehhe, yeah 8kw is rather a lot of power
what do people use as supplies in the real world for these 150Vdc controllers?
8kw is a max torque on all axes simultaniously
so i figure thats the place to aim
probably 'real world' is 415vac 3-phase
on the up side its looking like 400 inches per minute traverse speeds lol
mmm still need a power supply though
Might have a guy who is able to get hold of the 15 batterys i need from some mobile phone towers for cheap cheap
big ones too
I am going to be using a 6kw 3phase transformer for my servos. :) outputs 125v ac from 220v
what servos you running?
and how big a forklift did you use to move the thing ;->
[14:02:07] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC_0242.JPG
ahh that one
I'm planning mag motors
the transformer isn't too heavy. 2 people can carry it.
[14:03:00] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/diodes.JPG
[14:03:15] <Valen> http://www.magmotor.com/brushed/brushed.html
skunkworks: the old auto spark condensor is a nice touch
heh - it was out of some sort of tig welder
factory I assume
your colour prices you have on offer are quite compeditive too
old school project
where is the condenser in the photo?
screwed to the right diode
oh right duh, helps to look at the right photo
i was looking at the motor pic
hence the "wtf"?
you must have a pretty massive shop lol to have that machine in it
ahh man that sucks, tasmania is getting fiber to the home starting its rollout in july, the rest of the country needs to wait till 2010
what we are replacing with emc2 http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/rearcontrller.JPG
rofl holy crap
is that the computer or the controller?
I can see there are some shiny new caps in amongst it all so was it running fairly recently?
that needs a proper restoration skunkworks
archivist: be careful -- he offered to send it to me when I said that
within the last few years.
Or at least get the flashy lights working and stick the EMC box behind a wall somewhere
I think it would be neat to reuse the thumbwheels :-)
cradek, I was winding him up like that a year ago but Im safely too far away
skunkworks: ... woah....
[14:19:41] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C740zS9R9kk&feature=channel
yikes, I think this guy is tapping with a keyless drill chuck
but it looks like it works!
skunkworks: any ringcore memory in there ?
cradek, thats pjm in here
pjm_: doesn't the chuck loosen? or is it not the kind I think?
* justa saves skunkworks's picture and captions it with 'Don't worry, we have a backup system ready'
what you using for the spindle on that thing?
ouch, here's milling with the same chuck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlCFMTn36w&NR=1
something grindy there
oh yeah full credit for not putting irritating music over all the cool machine noises
I like to be nearer spindle bearings too
cradek, yeah i know its poor practice to hold everything in a chuck ;-) but i'm only working with soft ally
for steel i put the cutters in a proper collet holder etc
what is the spindle drive your using?
how do those tapped threads come out? It looks like you are able to run it fast.
as for the chuck loosening, never had it happen yet, its a alberecht one, apparently quite nice
the threads are really nice, certainly as good as a properly hand tapped thread
yes those are nice. but I'm surprised it doesn't open when you reverse the spindle
i.e. no slop in them etc, i tried a m3 thread gauge in the tapped hole and the appropriate go/no go ends did as they were sposed to
cool, very neat to hear that.
i tried m3 tapping at 1000rpm and it worked fine too
rather quick too i'd imagine ;->
but for safety i usually run it at 500 or 750
are you using 2.2 or 2.3?
the 2.3 beta 2
I measured the power used by my little mill last night. driver box on but not enabled: 5W. amplifiers enabled: 20W (3 nominally 5W motors--it's a small mill). amplifiers + spindle turning: 45W. shop-vac for chip removal: 700W.
it is so good as to be amazing!! the v2.2.8 has a strange speed ringing on the Z axis during the start of the tapping cycle
pjmcnc so what are you using for the spindle drive to get the controll?
where as 2.3 just works perfectly
pjmcnc: yes I redid that initial sync part
pjmcnc: glad to hear it is working well for you
Valen, sorry, i was gonna answer that, the actual drive is an ABB motor, not very big, about 350watts
and its driven with a VFD yakasawa or similar
its 1:1 toothed belt drive
from motor to spindle
and the 360ppr encoder is on top of the motor
the VFD takes the servo speed inputs?
yeah i'm using it with a 0 to 6KHz pulse train as opposed to pwm / dc
as the machine is completely stepper driven so no analogue stuff
funky, I was debating taking control of the the spindle on our conversion
its a 2HP AC motor
through a gearbox though
so probably loads of backlash
doesn't matter, if you can put the encoder on the actual spindle
i'm gonna look for a bigger motor, as i just won a higher power VFD, so can go to something rated 0.75Kw
the rest of it Is going to be direct drive servo
so there should be no backlash in the rest of the system
I spose its less important for the spindle because your not generally going to need to do a 2 axis cordinated movement with that
pjmcnc do you have the pics from your build in a non youtube format?
yes there is some on the emc wiki
it'd probably be really helpfull on our build
one sec i'll get u the url
cradek, anything i should watch out for with our build you think?
the spindle is generally the "independent variable" when it's involved in coordinated movement
[14:37:33] <pjmcnc> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
CSS being one possible exception
constant surface speed, on a lathe
Valen, but the most current pictures as of yesterday are uploaded into the wiki article
the spindle speeds up as you get closer to the centerline
less important there to get perfect cordination between axes though unless you are cutting a thread
even that should be ok with backlash though
I guess I was agreeing with you, in different words :)
you couldn't do the rigid threading pjm was doing without taking that backlash into account
I was trying to work out if there was a circumstance where backlash in the spindle would matter
the encoder should be on the spindle itself, so backlash shouldn't be a problem
hmm.. you shouldnt have backslash between encoder and spindle..
on the X-Y it matters if you try to do a circle, you get flat spots even if the encoder is on the shaft
well i imagine you would anyway as the Y say goes from +ve drive to -ve
what servos are you looking at upgrading to pjm?
Valen, whatever i can find for next to nothing at the local scrap yard!
lol made of win
although i know of a bridgeport interact that is gonna be scrapped in the next 6 months
and the owner said i can have 'parts' off of it
so the plan is to completly strip it down to nothing, and take away the 'parts'
early interracts are stepper
ahh really, this has a heidenhain tnc155
still it will have some nice parts to play with
how long do you think it would take to get working from the point at which you had all the parts?
assuming it was being retrofitted onto an existing mill
or how long does it take to configure EMC for a novice ;->
pjmcnc, I have been looking at a few interracts on fleabay, dunno if I shall buy yet though
Valen, that depends on what you want to do
i played with emc on and off for a few weeks just with steppers on the bench
a simple config can be made to work almost instantly
4 axis servo drive
XYZ and a rotary table
so nothing to exciting there
and hopefully running G-Code out of solidworks
pjm do you write your G-Code by hand or use a cad program?
or anybody for that matter using CAD to get their G-Code
if you've never tuned a servo (ever), and you want to use servos, then you will have a harder time configuring than someone with stepper motors
Setting up a PID loop isn't too scary to me
similarly, if you get an old Bridgeport with limit and home switches, power lube, coolant, motorized spindle speed control, and half a dozen air-operated things, you'll need to spend a little more time than someone with a sherline
its telling EMC about the mesa card, and how to tell stuff to do things lol, I haven't started looking much beyond the hardware yet
getting the mesa card working will be the least of your efforts ;)
it's deciding what to do with all that I/O, and making the ladders and things to do it, that will take time
It looks like the whole "pins" thing should make configuration somewhat easy
Valen, for simple pockets etc, i write it in gedit, for complex stuff i use cambam on my windows laptop
SWPadnos what do you mean by ladders?
classicladder, the internal PLC
ahh, like i said i havent looked too much into EMC itself yet
where do you use the ladder logic?
if you need that (which complex estop or other sequencing does), it's just more things to do :)
in my retrofit I spent much longer figuring out what I had, what to keep, mounting stuff, and wiring it up than on software configuration
estop, brake sequencing, some panel stuff, lube timing ...
ok that sounds good, another guy is doing all the mechanical stuff ;->
wires and connectors take most of the time
We like ring terminals for most of our power stuff, anything better/worse?
.. it's such a come-down to look through Youtube CNC-videos and bump into a lovely homebuilt 100Watt laser-table doing marvelously nice things on glass (of all things).. and then have the first comment to the video be "Cool! Do you think this can shoot through a human's skull ?'
do you need the lader logic stuff for a simple "stop everything" estop?
justa got a link for that laser?
Valen, no, you shouldn't
there's an estop HAL component that may work for some setups
cool, I'd like to add coolant control etc but I'd like to get it cutting first
Valen: ok.. the comment reads "could this cut through a mans skull? "... Not even 'cool'
lol i just wanted to see the actual laser work
Valen: it looks like a rather nicely built setup although he comments 'it's cheaper and faster to just get one from China'
probably not going to get one that big from china for a sensible price though
I wonder if he made the lasing tube himself
wouldnt think so
must be using a fiber optic laser
I am looking at putting an IR laser on the mill to use for rapid prototyping type things
melting the wax powder type things
40W IR lasers come up on ebay for sane prices from time to time
~$100 or so
I wonder if that would work on the glass too
Valen: You have a link to one of these "IR lasers on ebay" ?
dpss lasers seem to be rather affordable on ebay from time to time, indeed
though I have no idea as to how much 'extra stuff' is needed around them to get proper beam-delivery/cooling etc.. ofcourse a decent PSU will be required.. And, as to the quality/durability of secondhand DPSS.
hmm - did I do that right - 40ft-lbs of torque is 480 in-lbs. (480*2*Pi*.9(eff of ball screw))/.333 thread pitch - that is 8143 pounds per square inch?
you trying to end up with pounds?
Isn't it 40 ft-lbs * 144 == in-lbs ?
(I'm asking here)
no - it is linear inches - a bar.
ok, carry on...
units '40ft*lbf*(2*pi/rev)/(.333in/rev)' lbf
psi is the force per unit area of the screw
.333 seems like a weird thread pitch though
3 threads per inch
skunkworks Is that like a crooked straight line? lol
every line is straight as seen in the proper coordinate system
and all numbers are 1 with the appropriate substitution
fenn: without the leadscrew efficency - that is what I get
that means I can theortically lift 9056lbs - isn't it.
'a shitload of force'
dgarr: so .. that's _you_ on youtube doing those lovely wooden lathing/engraving that i've been drooling over and has been encouraging me to want to build my own CNC ?
me -- with great thannks to emc developers!
It's utterly lovely work :)
what is the program that displays the probed points?
also i'm confused why axis displays in 3d - did you write a custom kinematics module?
fenn: it can do that now, for all combinations of stacked rotaries
since when? what is this feature called?
I don't know the answer to either of those :-)
program is some tcl stuff i use for my design application
feature is ini: [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY
i thought that was just whether to rotate the cone or not
* fenn tries setting GEOMETRY = CXYZAB
one of the top features of 2.3xxx !
right, that explains why i couldnt find it in the manual
it's not very impressive with XYZABCUVW
thanks for the nice demo
dgarr: how do you get the copper to conform to the shape you're probing?
(very cool demo)
yes -- copper tape -- craft store (or ebay)
looks like you could use some path optimization there ;)
very cool stuff though
since it's cylindrical coord, i use all inverse time codes, not optimised at all :P
oh, I was just noticing that there was a fair amount of rapid movement between the separate "glyphs"
or contours I guess :)
how does the G-code generator sort the disconnected contours?
gimp->filters->render->pattern->sinus, then potrace --> svg, then parse svg
ok, so the SVG file could have things in more or less any order
potrace doesn't optimize as far as i know
it might be relatively easy to sort the entities by XY location, after the conversion to SVG
there might even be a utility that does that (or some sub-feature of another program or something)
not that it matters - what matters is the results, and yours are excellent
so far i haven't cared since there are many hand turning steps and other stuff that takes time
yep. shouldn't be an issue. I just happened to notice is all :)
dgarr: sorry if i asked this before and forgot; what are the white pieces made from? some sort of resin?
cast resin -- polyurethane or polyester
do you use talc as a filler?
i have not used fillers (to date)
why do they look white then?
an off-white color is natural for some, i think clear is avail in polyurethane, and most can be dyed
i wonder if i would like this as much if i knew how it was done :) http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/phpv1/01-PoemBoxes/P1030910.jpg?1239125000
it's a good question -- i have to remind folks how much hand turning is involved in preparation and fitting and how OT machines have always worked at the state of the art (even 400 years ago)
i thought this was neat; reminds me of your pots for some reason http://www.rab3d.com/chess_set.html
SWPadnos: seen the drobo pro?
[17:40:28] <alex_joni> http://www.drobo.com/products/drobopro/
Where can one find a list of math functions and their definitions that are permissable in ngc files such as sin, LT, NE etc?
and around there (up and down)
skunkworks the servos are fanuc about 4" in diameter and about 12" inches long
Nice - what is on the nameplate? (are they dc-brushed?)
yes, I think so... I just glanced at one then had to do a bunch of plasma parts
they have two mil type connectors one with 12 or so pins and one with 4
he told me this morning I could have the whole mill if I wanted it
the controls are missing
and the drives
any pictures? A machine with toolchanger would be cool to play with - You need more projects :)
LOL, gotta get my tractor back together and get the THC component done first
I'll get some pics this evening
nothing wrong with a queue of projects
no, but I need to expand my shop first :)
LawrenceG: 160v 20a - no smoke.
stalling it with a torque wrench - 20ft-lbs. :)
i daresay you could drive a car with it
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BigJohnT: definatly looks brushed.
I cannot really read the tag though
is that good ?
good for diy ;)
anything cheap/free is good
[20:13:22] <BigJohnT> http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/servo/
are the brushes contained in the 4 stickmeouts at 90 degrees from each other?
how do I tell if it is resolver or encoder?
what is the whole number
take it appart? or find some specs on it
let me go out and write it down...
I would think the rear cap would come off pretty easy
BigJohnT: connectors for those plugs will cost more than the servo would sell for
there is "some" variety http://www.cnc-shopping.co.uk/fanuc-motor-c-24_28.html?osCsid=f339d775f4a1e5edb8bcf6d351355761
[20:19:17] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/FANUC-MODEL-5N-DC-SERVO-MOTOR-A06B-0614_W0QQitemZ360083900288QQihZ023QQcategoryZ97184QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262?_trksid=p1713.m153.l1262
might just be a tach
fenn: I hope the connectors are still on the machine somewhere
BigJohnT, if you have a A06B-0614-B031 ish number most sites seem to have those as a preference
hook 24v into it and see the rpm. run 1 amp into it and measure the torque. should be able to figure it out. (internet isn't being much help)
heh it turned up this http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8513
skunkworks there are 4 power pins it looks like
is it two pairs or something like that?
I should sell them in germany they go for 2199 euro each
no clue. You would have to ohm it out. We have on that has 2 pins for motor and 2 for temp.
short any 2 out and see if it turns harder.
you will be able to tell
from the smoke?
heh - how fast can you turn it over by hand? ;)
unless you short a motor terminal to a temperature sensor terminal, which shouldn't make much difference
you can also just short them all together, which should make it harder to turn
oh, I understand what your trying to tell me now :)
the larger connector can probably support both tach and encoder, you'll have to find the pinout or take it apart to figure out what you have
ok, there is 17 pins on the large one
there are two screws in the back that I assume will allow the cover to come off
lots of pictures. :)
well I have to go capture the cat and take him to the vet to get a couple of teeth pulled... I think I'll let my wife pick him up :)
talk to you guys later
they look like nice servos
ah, missed him
if it's a resolver you can measure it
should get some resistance (3 pairs)
the one's I've seen are around 20-100 ohms or so
for ref, sin and cos
good night all