you could jsut ask. if people know the answer, they'll probably answer
but we can't until we know the question
people sometimes abbreviate "Don't ask to ask, just ask" as "DATAJA"
Cool -- thanks.
I'm swapping motors on my z-axis -- I'm putting a 300oz/in torque motor in place, but I'm getting far less torque than I get with my other cheapie steppers.
I'm very confused, 'cuz the procedure I used to tune the 90oz/in motors isn't having the same effect on the bigger ones.
Any thoughts re: how to get more torque?
are you using the same driver?
if your drives are underpowered, it seems like big motors might work worse than smaller motors
FWIW, it's generating about 40oz/in
tell us about the drives and motors
driver is rated 24-32V@5A
ok, and the motors?
Drive is a non-standard drive. Got it from a vendor on eBay (MDFly). Saw a posting saying it wouldn't work w/EMC, but I got it running just fine last weekend. I have docs if needed.
Motors are Lin Eng, NEMA 23, 284oz/in 3.15V @ ... 3.8A? 'sec, I'll get the spec sheet.
The original motors are 0.7A@30V
1.8 degree, yada yada...
so the originals are 90 oz-in at 0.7A?
Max, if memory serves. I'll need to actually locate the spec sheet -- they came from a surplus place a year ago -- I remember at the time that they matched the driver and power supply nicely.
[00:12:02] <shayter> http://www.alltronics.com/mas_assets/acrobat/28M003.pdf
well, if you rake 90 oz-in / 0.7A, you get about 128.6 oz-in/amp
2.8A/phase, 294oz/in, 2.08N-m
divide 284 oz-in / 2.8 A and you get 105 oz-in/A
so given the same torque setting, you'll get lower torque from the larger motor
err, same current setting
what voltage is your power supply?
also, how do you measure torque?
Ahh -- didn't realize how the calculation was done (haven't found anything specfic in the docs).
for servos, it's called the torque coinstant
I have a torque screwdriver -- I kept dialing in 'til the motor stalls.
that may be close enough :)
So, it's approximate
So, if you look at that spec sheet, the 5718L-01S is better suited?
oh, no idea - I'm not looking at the spec sheet :)
Or even the 5718M-04S ?
Well -- that blows.
Ok -- latency errors/video drivers....
so, what voltage are you running?
well, you should be able to crank up the driver output quite a bit
current output that is
the new motors take 4x the current
That's what I *think* this problem is... But I'm not sure how to go about it. I've been adjusting a couple of settings in stepconf (the XYZ axis menus) but I'm not seeing the increase in torque I'd expect.
nothing you can do on the PC will change the current setting on the driver board
For example -- and lemme explain what I did to actually get the small motors running....
that should be a pot or a resistor
('sec -- launching step-conf)
should I say that again?
There's only a dip switch.
"Half Current" and "Auto"
that's likely for some sort of auto-current-reduction mode
ie, after some time with no steps, it will reduce the current to reduce motor heating
Am I right in assuming that the steppers are driven using PWM? If so, woudl the step time and step space have *any* bearing, or none whatsoever?
I'm not familiar with that particular driver, there are PWM (chopper) and non-PWM drives
well, microstepping would be another setting
that's how I got the other motors to work
I dropped microstepping (increments) to 0.05 -- only then was I able to get solid performance without stalling
But, when I approached it in the same manner with these bigger motors, it just basically stalls out... ie: it'll run with no load with a setting of 1, but if I lower it to 0.05 it won't step at all. The sweet spot seems to be 0.9
But, even then, I can stop it with no effort by pinching the shaft between my thumb and forefinger.
(I'm checking the board's manual for a current adjustment right now)
which model do you have?
they seem to sell several
nonw of which say 5A (5.6, 4.2, 2.5 ...)
You want the manual?
no, I see it
it's a 2.5A driver
Right. Didn't I say 2.8??
Oh -- nope. 5A
you said the drive was 24-32V @ 5A
That's the power supply... 24V@5.8A
I suppose I could put smaller power resistors in there...
ok, I think that board will suck with those motors no matter what you do
first, it's 2.5A peak, sniusoidal output
it's only 1.5A average
I agree with SWP - I have 200 oz-in motors with a 3 amp drive
So .. basically .. get a Gecko?
a gecko would work nicely
the G250/251 or the G540 would be great, if you want it simple :)
Been unemployed for months, but start a new job next week -- maybe I owe myself a present.. ;-)
What's the one that's the bare board?
$70ea, or something--is that the 250?
G250 and 251 are just boards, one has scerw terminals and the other a pin header
yeah -- I'd probably go that route...
the G540 has 4 drivers, some isolated I/O, a charge pump, and is $300 maybe?
$399, I think.
oh, could be
So, basically, you figure that I'm up a creek at this point?
well, you son't get very good performance
if you do have series resistors, get rid of them
Slow doesn't bother me.
if your pinched for coin, the hobbycnc kit (you assemble ) is under $100
these motors can handle anything the drive can put out
google for hobbycnc ;)
there are some issues with the idle current circuit - but can be modded to allow EMC to manage it
Wait -- $64? Serious?
its 4 axis - work upto 325oz-in motors
I use it
price was right for me when I did mine
What about the pro? $15 more and seems to have the idle problem dealt with.
pro has the idle circuit - the EZ does not
I would get the pro and the idle circuit mod is posted on CNCzone.com - I think I put the link on the hardware page in the emc wiki for that driver
Almost makes me wonder if the drivers are pin-for-pin compatible. I'd try swapping the chips first.
EMC is precise - it sends commands faster than the Idle circuit can wake up
Although I guess that may introduce timing issues.
the boards are slightly different
SWP -- series resistors?
Not sure - weak on electronics
[20:29:05]<shayter>I suppose I could put smaller power resistors in there...
if your pinched on cash - its a great option - otherwise head for the geckos
I mean the driver chips vs the Toshiba chips currently in mine.
you don't want idle current reduction on the motors
Ahh -- well there's a pair of power resistors on each of the XYZ axis. A doesn't have -- doesn't need, I'm assuming.
unless they provide full torque (which I think you can with only 0.707*normal current)
those could be current sense
SWP - I like it now that I "fixed" the board - I often walk away from the gantry and come back and the motors are stone cold
I don't have a schemo -- just experience/intuition...
Gotta be current limiting resistors, the 5W jobs.
well, I dunno. I briefly looked at the datasheet for the driver chip, and there's a current sense input (pin 10 I think it was)
Anyhow -- I'll mess w/it. I know the Gecko is the hobbyists Cadillac..
you don't use current limiting resistors for a chopper drive
Maybe this is a ... oh -- might be part of a damping setup...
Who knows -- I'm not gonna reverse engineer it...
I'll have to think about for a bit.
I have a link to a photo of it, if you wanna see what I'm talking about.
yeah, who knows what they did
current limiting resistors and current sense resistors are totally different things
I saw the board on an ebay listing
So -- the performance/latency question I ad.
I was conf'd for 800x600 w/an NVidia card running w/VESA drivers.
the G540 is $299 (just looked it up :) )
[00:43:35] <SWPadnos> http://geckodrive.com/product.aspx?i=14469
Never had a problem, but I got sick of slow screen refresh, and figured I'd let the card do all the work instead of making the CPU break a sweat.
cool -- thx
So, I downloaded and compiled the .. go on ...
for most people, the proprietary nVidia drivers (or ATI or whichever) give much worse realtime latency
Yeah, I discovered that.
I rolled back to VESA, and managed to get the thing to run in 1024x768 mode.
But when I do, EMC won't launch. Fatal error, etc, etc.
I think ... you should say what the error is
Gimme a second -- I need to swap xorg.conf files and reboot the box...
rule #1: when something isn't working, run EMC from a shell so you can see all the output
probably the nvidia driver porked up your GL libraries
nvidia installs bork Mesa openGL in such a way that it's nearly impossible to recover
rule #2: if you ask questions, make sure everyone else can see the all the output (pastebin, etc)
does it bork it or pork it?
box is rebooting
jmka: Yeah -- I'm a sys admin, I normally do -- I just didn't wanna mess w/it at the time (I'd just gotten both X & Y axis running properly, so rolled back to something that "worked")
I'm more of a swedish chef type I think, so I think it's borked
borked borked borked
* shayter ducks the flying frying pans
Ugh -- there's a who kernel dump...
I see a TCL error: X server has no OpenGL GLX extension...
* shayter scratches his head
do "sudo dmesg -c" before running EMC to avoid all the crap from boot being in your dmesg
I've screwed something in the xorg.conf
It's gotta be that.
Lemme launch from the CLI and see what gives... I probably didn't need to bring this up -- it's an X issue, not EMC (I think)
yep, GL libraries are porked up by the nvidia crapo
right, X issue
if someone figures out how to unscrew this problem, it would be nice to put instructions on the wiki
did you install the nvidia restricted drivers Ubuntu package, or from the nvidia site?
well, I have a suggestion which may not work
I installed the restricted, but in order to get 'em to work, I had to switch from the RTAI
and it's probably a lot harder than backing up your data and reinstalling :)
Anyone know how to fix the none functional flash video? I already ran through all of firefox's recommended fixes (mplayer, libraries, preference settings etc...) with no change - THat last link JMK put up just has white space where the video should be.
But, EMC wasn't happy 'bout that, so I rolled back, switched kernels, and then d/l'd the source driver and compiled.
Delete the plugin and reinstall it.
but if you'd like to try, then the idea is to purge anything that says nvidia, and maybe even mesa-openGL (which would remove a lot of stuff), and then install the vesa/mesa drivers again, pus EMC2 and whatever else is missing
that could possibly get rid of enough stuff that the new install would put in the correct files
SHayter - tried that - no luck - will try again though
IIRC, the problem is that nvidia replaces some openGL files with their own versions (like libGL.so.1 or something)
so .. theoretically, I should just be able to force a reinstall of those libs?
like I said, a USB stick and reinstall are probably easier
well, maybe, in theory
but that hasn't worked wright either, if I'm remembering things right
How well does yum work under Ubuntu?
Same as Fedora?
does it work at all?
ubuntu uses apt, not rpm
yeah, I know -- I just spend most of my life in the Redhat fork....
watch out for flying chips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnEZuvgiYoU&NR=1
Well -- it doesn't work very well (in case you were curious)
ugh -- I remember now why I don't like apt. ;-)
has nothing to do with apt, I think
except maybe that nvidia provides redhat RPMs and not Ubuntu debs :)
funny, I spent many years on redhat but really like apt/deb once I finally tried it
yum list *vesa* | grep installed shows just what you think it would. doesn't seem to be a way to do that w/apt.
dpkg -l "*vesa*"
or dpkg -l vesa " grep -e "^ii" (or similar)
but if you installed from nvidia source, the package list won't really matter much
Ugh -- there's STILL a crapload of nvidia stuff installed.
got a memory stick? ;)
* shayter copies his configs and NC files to the network
I really wish my spare monitor hadn't flaked...
Thanks for the help...
I'm bummed about the motors...
I really wanted XY&Z working flawlessly this weekend.
SWP: you think a Gecko w/these motors is the way to go, eh?
check for a current limit setting on that driver
Will do -- 99% certain there isn't one.
you would have gotten the small motors very warm if you were driving1.5A through them
They get hot to the touch alright.
I know a gecko will run them (assuming they're bipolar)
well, hot to the touch is OK (for larger ones at least), sizzling hot isn't ;)
The bigger motors don't even warm up.
no, you can't run them past half current with that driver
Matter of fact, the drivers themselves don't even get warm to the touch -- not even w/the big motors on the line
so you'll never get more than 1.5* 105 = 157.5 oz-in with that driver
(the 105 from the previous calculation)
So it's better to upgrade, otherwise I'm just wasting these babies potential
it seems that way to me
there may be some way of getting your driver to work, but I don't know how, and I don't think I'd waste^Wspend the time finding out
Cool. My b-day is next weekend. Maybe the missus will treat me. ;-)
less than an xbox ;)
And hours more fun!
does anyone know if there are integrators around michigan - and how they can be reached?
Ray Henry is in the UP
does he do alot of retrofits up there?
I'm not sure what he's doing these days
he may know better who's around though
does he have a website or something - or e-mail address?
his email is all over the emc mailing lists
anybody using brushless servo motors?
LOVE! PEACE! TACO GREASE!!
ARE YOU ON DRUGS?
err, I mean, please pass the taco grease
TACO NAZI ---> SWPadnos NO TACOS FOR YOU! NEXT....
SWP: I mighta fixed the library issues -- not sure. I got distracted, but I tried implicitly removing the mesa/vesa glx package. That flagged and removed a crapload of dependencies, which I installed manually following the deletion... The last message I saw was something about Network Manager -- box is off the network right now. ;-)
yeah, you could remove X, but a heck of a lot depends on it ;)
use keystick right?
Valen, not many are using brushless servos, they tend to be quiet expensive
didn't seem to matter ... 'course, a reboot post removal would be bad.
the few I know of are using the standard +/- 10V control interface and encoders
I'm wondering really what the difference between a brushless servo and a stepper motor is when you get down to it ;->
or synthesized encoder feedback actually (from the drive)
the design is pretty similar really, its more a question of speed
pole count is the main difference in the motor
the real difference is how they are controlled
Not entirely -- if these are anything like RC servos in the way they operate, you give a coordinate and it goes there
steppers use constant current and constant flux, and the angle between rotor and stator flux varies with torque
A stepper needs to be pulsed a certain number of steps.
shayter, no, they're usually not run that way
servos maintain the angle at 90 degrees, and vary the flux to vary torque
an "ideal" stepper doesn't vary position with torque
It occurs to me that I could learn a fair amount just lurking here. ;-) Will I get idle kicked if I hang around...
and if they do microstepping the drive waveform looks rather similar to a brushless drive
just slower perhaps
Valen: similar but different
a servo drive controls the angle between rotor and stator flux, a stepper drive sets the stator angle and hopes the rotor follows
yeah i know the difference between closed and open loop controll
shayter, no, I left this machine connected for the last week :)
while I was on a trip
Valen, that's not it
the point i was making however is if you put a scope on the wires into both motors while they were both running at 500Hz it would look pretty much the same
the stepper would probably be doing square wave drive and the brushless DC would be doing trapezoidal say but still
true (although the servo would be spinning damn fast, because the pole count is so different)
thats why i said 500Hz not 500 rpm ;->
what i was thinking was if one of mesa's anything I/O boards could be used to run a brushless servo system
you just need 3 half H bridges per drive channel but then stepper drives already have that
ergo other than RPM Vs Frequency and an encoder whats the difference?
stick an encoder on the stepper and drive it like a servo
valen: We've driven steppers as servos (our SoftDMC will do it), needs 30 KHz or so servo loop rate and a hi-res encoder
at reasonable power levels though step motors make pretty lousy servos, with more complicated drive electronics
(than 3 phase synchronous PM = AC servo)
When you're running latency-test, how much load is (realistically) too much load?
I've got 6 glxgears running, Firefox, Totem (streaming audio from shoutcast, with visualizations), and I'm VNC'd into the box from upstairs (ultimately it'll be headless anyway, so I wanted to test). Before launching Totem, I had a peak jitter of 11983 -- now the peak is 49061
And the test has been running about 40 minutes (give or take)
let it run overnight
damn! this Z has a 4mm pitch, that explains some of the lost motion . i need some better tools, like a dti and some gages. 40mm of it looks like 10 turns, maybe its weird Imperial pitch
what software are you guys using to layout pcb's?
I use eagle
I thought something like that was what I had heard...
eagle is a for pay software but they have a free version with limits that aren't too harsh
and its in apt w00t ;->
I just want to make a couple of custom breakout boards so nothing complicated
eagle is probably your best bet, it has a bit of a learning curve but it has lots of parts
there is a PDF tutorial floating about, ~20 pages i think
what is "apt w00t:->"?
apt as in in the ubuntu apt repositories, w00t as in huzza software be easy to install ;-> as in ;->
Mother Fsckers... GoDaddy just charged me $10 for processing a complaint that the WHOIS info on one of my domains is invalid (phone: 000-000-0000). Like email/snail isn't enough, have to get spammed via phone too. Make me want to get a 1-900 number and put it in there out of spite!
($10 it was godaddy)
No clue who complained, just that goDaddy's legal agreement says they can charge me $10 for processing the complaint.
I wouldn't be surprised.
JymmmEMC: I got a little windburn from riding so long yesterday :)
BigJohnT: kicad is very easy to draw schematics with
(compared to eagle at least)
also i have been playing with jukumagic.googlecode.com
I'll check them both out thanks
kicad also does (or can do) 3d renders of the final product and is open source
(and un restricted)
downloading it now :) thanks
kicad might be OK if you don't have years of using eagle behind me. When I start the kicad schematic editor, my blood boils instantly at stupid things like no apparent way to mouse pan, and the way the cursor keys move the mouse pointer around...
kinda like being a power solidworks user and opening up qcad :)
[13:37:59] <justa> http://www.uniquedaily.com/laser-print-music/
a missing feature in EMC
Ow! I just reread what I said. forgive me for murdering the english language like that.
justa: not missing at all. daisy.ngc is a 4-part harmony for an XYZA stepper mill.
BigJohnT, hehe I like that comment Solidworks is damned good
jepler: doh ^.^
hm, debian sid has a newer kicad than ubuntu intrepid (200808 vs 200711)
Americans have been murdering OUR language for a while :)
archivist: yeah, but I usually do a little better at pronoun agreement within a single sentence.
Melvyl Dewey loved to bork our spelling
it's suddletees like speling that throw us
I do like the unix/linux way of miss speeling
archivist: Yeah? Go make a web page red with your funky spelling!
re locations of emc people just seen an email on the wikipedia project and it seems http://www.openstreetmap.org/
is about ready for prime time we could use the data for our EMC user location thing
that's our engraver!
and it as done with gcode in emc
the bassline is the table/focus axis
well the Eagle is up and running
huh i was just looking at openstreetmap
seems a good toy fenn
I must add missing roads around here
I need to get the old GPS out as it has a serial out to record tracks
want to do augmented reality stuffs with it
* BigJohnT wonders what lib a 50pin connector header might be in eagle
er, maybe not -- that one only goes to 2x20
can you do a search for a part number like HRP50H-ND?
there should be a 'search by picture' function
search by brain waves
I did something and headers showed up :)
you know.. that's not so far off
I heard mattel has some sort of game that uses brain waves to control.
Should be out this year
dunno if you've seen this http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/12/scientists-extract-images-directly-from-brain/
how do I get the list of parts back after a search?
normal thickos that buy games will be disappointed when they dont have the brain power to play
archivist: nah they will just buy brain pumps on ebay
or brain enlargement pills
BigJohnT: remove the search criteria?
did that and nothing... right clicked on the add tool then left clicked and it's back
BigJohnT: eagle isn't very intuitive (at least for me) but once you figure out it's oddities - it works very well.
ok now I'm looking for a 3.5mm spacing terminal block or 10 holes 3.5mm apart
with a 1.2mm hole :)
[14:56:38] <skunkworks> http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/video-mattel-mind-flex-hands-and-heads-on/
that fmri = picture thing is freaky
* archivist stabs Garmin for not supporting Linux
in the eye?
can't you just get NMEA over rs232?
probably doesn't help if you want to do anything more than that
like upload new maps or something
my street pilot is USB
what you trying to do with it?
get tracks, my old GPS is ok and has RS232
odds are the GPS has a generic usb/serial in it
the 1-second heartbeat should be generically usable
tail /var/syslog when you insert it and see if anything pops up
if you have a Linux GPS program (mapping or whatever), it may be as simple as using /dev/ttyUSB0 instead of /dev/ttyS0
BigJohnT: if you're begiining eagle with a 50 pin connection, check the largest pcb you can make... it aint big and you just ate about 1/4 to 1/3 of the real estate. you can draw all you want but you cant output a very big pcb with the free version (75x100mm??? 3x4inch?? unsure )
tomp: these are idc connectors so they are only 2.75" long
thanks for the heads up
50 pin breakout... check awallin's breakouts maybe http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/08/optoisolator-cards-for-mesa-5i20-servocard/
re: gps & linux "Navit is a car navigation system with routing engine. As it is free software, it runs on Linux, it can use the maps from OpenStreetMap"
[15:27:19] <tomp> http://navit.sourceforge.net/
hmmm sounds interesting
[15:27:58] <SWPadnos> http://www.dash.net/
why not just run Linux on the GPS itself? :)
tomp: thanks for the link... I can hack his up for mine :)
and of course: http://www.tomtom.com/
BigJohnT, make sure to count up terminal costs before deciding if you should buy a 7i37T :)
instead of building one
2.21 for the 10pos terminal block and 1.36 for the 50 pin header
the 7i37TA is about $70 as I recall
I just need a few wires connected from the A-F to the 5i20
V-F not A-F LOL
voltage to frequency converter?
or a VFD?
the mesa MI 94V
well nighty night peoples
yes voltage to freq
oh. never heard of it
are the gps in USA aware of your speed and teh speed limits? here the dang things are real backseat drivers, complaining about your speed and how close you are to other cars
I have the only one in the world
my gps has a mute button :)
tomp: how do they know where the other cars are?
fenn: sorry, that feature's npt gps, the speed is gps, the close is some prox system
speed limits are looke dup in some database/link to whereIam
damn seems no NMEA in my Street Pilot i3
[15:38:26] <tomp> http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm
hm, you usually have to enable it with garmin gps:es
anonimasu, not in the manual or menus for this one
was a cheap car boot find
archivist btw, talking of car-boot cheapness, i found another VFD today
hehe good find
and some mitsubishi PLC's - no idea what to do with them tho
yeah the guy with the VFD twisted my arm to give him 2 quid for it
keep in "sfuff that comes in useful" store
yeah i need to read up on the plc's to find out what i can actually use them for, hopefully something to integrate into my cnc
pjm_: what kinda cnc do you have?
coden4life its one i made myself, wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm has some pictures
i've spent this weekend putting all the electronics in a metal cabinet
time I boxed my wiring :)
trying to cut out some of the noise the VFD spits out, quite staggering how back it is
that part is always a dread
rats nest rulz
wiht the scope probe held 0.5" away from the wires to the braking resistor, you can see 0.5v p-p of crud
nice work there pjm_: the reason I asked is you mentioned plc and I thought an ATC would be a nice addition to a machine
thanks, ah i dunno what that is? these plc's i picked up are both mitsubishi, one is an fx1s-30mr-es/ul and the other is a fxo-30mr-es/ul
then you can program them and use you emc to make calls to them and such
the guy i got it all off said it was from a pumping system, for monitor and control. there is a whole box of other crap, relays, switches, detectors, timers etc
ATC automatic tool changer
i need one of them!
sorry industry lingo
pjmcnc: did you get a programming cable for the mits?
the manual tool changer does get a bit tiresome
BigJohnT, no just the units
that is a bummer
last time I looked at a mits for a job they wanted $150 for the program cable and I forget what for the software
wow that is a lot!
pjm.dyndns.org/cam/junk.jpg bottom right of this pic is the units
industrial stuff costs the earth
hahh most of it is c**p
I am jealous you can tap
<£5 for all that stuff
coden4life well the encoder stuff etc was done with a lot of help from the experts in here
cheap for the pile
and the v2.3beta of emc is sweet as you like for tapping
loads of terminal blocks a manual motor starter and lots of other stuff
a power supply
archivist when i get up to warwick with tihs linear bearing, i will put this junk in the car and u can pick through it ;-)
I have some equivalent in "stock"
I turned a (WW2) drill press into a cnc mill/drill I have no spindle reverse
brb food. the best item out of that stuff is the mitsubishi fr-u120s 0.75Kw VFD tho
thanks pjm_: now I have motivation to see about using the 2 relay connections on my controller card to see if I can get a spindle forward and reverse going
* pjm_ back
coden4life yeah that will be excellent if u can get that running
tapping by hand ain't that enjoyable
archivist is there a cnc parts swap forum anywhere for UK folks (not meant to exclude any other folks btw)
coden4life yeah i was making some boxes for a microwave amplifier that needed M2 tapped holes and it was pretty nice to have the machine do them
BigJohnT, hi, presumably these PLC's I have cant be made to do anything useful unless i have this programming s/w etc? I see under a conver there is a connector for RS422 comms, should be fairly simple to convert that to 232
pjm_, I did come across a UK forum but did not join it (commercial behind it)
I just finished a beginners sagcad video tut does anyone have any good english tuts on the subject ... I did a 1" cube with 1/4" corner radius and then how to use the cam button ... simple for the advanced users but I am no expert so I thought it would help the rest of us.
it would just be handy to offer this stuff to fellow emc'ers to help with their machines etc
if you can find the pinout for the programming cable then you need the software... there should be some dos software out there to program them
cnczone might be a place for that kinda thing
melsec or something like that
ah ok thanks, i'll have a look. It'll be another steep learning curve - still not sure what i would use them for at this point in time ;-)
flea bay :)
pjm_, I saw some MCB's up at a computer fair yesterday but I have enough
that is a problem I think a lot of tinkerers have... got it but what to use it for
coden4life - yes exactly, i have 3 big sheds 'full of stuff that will come in handy one day'
i'm sure my missus chucks boxes of it out and i dont even notice
perhaps i'll put the PLC's on ebay and the $ can go towards a 7I43 card
there is a model engineers site which is free and unecumbered cant remember where though, didnt see much cnc
she went into a 'tazmainian devil' type frenzy when she saw me lugging todays haul of c**p down the garden
hide it in the car till dark
i justified it by saying it was only a few quid
and i had to have it at that price
a poor excuse i know
they don't care bout the cost they just see junk
ah if i got rid of my missus, i could fill the house up with c**p too!
and my machines could get moved in the the room formally known as the kitchen
I have one in the basement and the garage wife is asken bout when I am taken the one in the basement to the garage
Im old free and single :)
young married and learning
running out of house need more shed
wife thinks it is bull that I make more $$ and did not go to college and she is a nurse..... I told her to become a machinist we could make $$$ together
and both get laid off together
stay diversified ;-)
skills I have around here are hard to find
how big are the parts you work on?
but I work for a group that will always have work
if they fit on a plane, its only a matter of time before they are done in china
luckily china does not do cheap 1 off
and the guys I work with are not willing to use the new technologies that we keep getting were I jump right in and my employer has no others to turn to ....
and what I make won't be given to other nations to make
it is a matter of national security
even if your not in a war you still need parts
what do you make parts for? (or is it a secret?)
communications.... aircraft........ cabinets (boxes)....... complex geometries
stuff for EW ?
most the prints say they are covered under international arms agreement and cannot leave the US
encrypted comms probably
not anything secret about it but you know how things are... just the cases
we don't assemble
so what goes in em is a mystery
you work for a commercial company, right?
does it have any overseas facilities?
only one facility
if so, its only a matter of time till your bosses start trying to convince the powers that be that the cases aren't really secret, and should be unprotected
that amazes me
cause we are like the third man on the rung
we make it for so and so who makes it for so and so
who puts it all together for uncle sam
* jmkasunich is skeptical
there isn't a business around that isn't trying to figure out how to cut costs
and getting stuff from overseas is a favorite way
big businesses anyway - small ones that have only one facility not so much
but the top rung on your ladder might decide that it can get the parts from elsewhere
ya my first gig... I worked for a seal maker and they had plants all over... the swiss plant is the one I would have like to went to
a to be 18 again ...
back then I was dumb and thought making good $ and running a cnc for someone was just fine.... Now I do the math and realize I could make a killing running 4 to 5 of my own machines ... lol
and usually the capital cost to startup is a killer
EMC gives the small guy a step on the ladder
well I have been a linux user since 96 and that is when I started machining... I like building machines and if I can build a few a year and make a little cash I could get into that.. I know I won't be no Okuma or Tsugami but they started somewhere.
I intend retrofitting a dead commercial cnc with EMC when I can afford one
so if I see a used machine on ebay... with say working motors and good ways .... for cheap (in the UK) and buy it for you would you do the retro
or will it have to be a machine you believe you can do it to
I keep an eye on dead stuff on ebay, there is one in a few days
or are you like me and don't believe in the impossible just improbable
improbable due to lack of motivation
110371217543 looks doable
hell ya it does
only space and transport and some spare cash slows me
no one bid for 280324887839 dunno if you can see it
nope can't see it
still in my watch list, was a mazak but too large for me at home
jst_home_ is now known as jst_home
that looks like a monster of a machine for milling
390041700717 what is the verdict on this one ...
says it was taken outta service
poor thing has been worked to death there seems to be some snake il in the test :)
writing a comp is fun :)
BigJohn: Other than power you only really need 1 wire from V-F to 5I20
(or Parallel port)
dang just missed him
wow your back
so other than +5, gnd which do I use?
Didn'yt actually leave just that this version of Firefox is about as stable as a pig on stilts
that would be funny to see
+ F0 or -FO
my plan for the moment is to hook it to the parallel port card on one computer down here in the beer cave to get the HAL component working
The "B" encoder input needs to be grounded (or tied high)
I guess unconnected would be OK (high) in 5I20 case
ok to use my lab power supply to provide the 0-10vdc for the input?
Sure, you wouldn't hut it by connecting the inputs to 120VAC...
that's good to know
it will take 500V continuous on the inputs without the external divider
(50 --> 1 overload)
The divide by 32 and divide by 16 jumper settings are swapped on the board artwork
but the options are right, F/1 F/16 F/32 F/128
so you have a ~ 1MHz FS, ~30 KHz FS, ~15 KHz FS and ~7KHz FS
so you can select one thats not too fast for your base thread to track
Theres also a blinky LED to show the approximate rate
so if I apply 0-10 volts to the input for testing is it the same as the voltage divider circuit for the 0-300 volts?
ok, just wanted to make sure :)
I actually got a good start on a THC HAL component today
one end of 300v resistor string to Vtorch,
other end of resistor string to THCAD -IN
THCAD +in to plasma "work"
I guess starting and stopping are tricky
stopping is more tricky than starting as you have to "bleed off" the offset as you retract the torch
once you fire the torch off and get within the tolerance of velocity you can start to apply the offset when needed
you have a step motor Z axis?
So you use a PID loop for height with voltage feedback?
no, the plan was to use the velocity*scale to add to the Z motor commanded position but I'm open to suggestions
or something like that
Oh OK, sounds like a way to start
yea, start simple and work from there
So you have a torch height (voltage) setpoint?
basicly my "set voltage" will be converted to number to equal to the velocity feedback from the THCAD and the difference times a scale will be added to the Z position command
that will be a pyVCP item
a dial or spin box
the best thing is my plasma torch is on a floating head so with a drag tip on the torch I can't hurt it :)
So its a "P" loop with gain being your scale
Thats really good for testing, since diving into your work is almost guaranteed first time...
yep there is going to be some "hey, hold my beer and watch this" moments for sure
the floating head has a contact switch that I use to locate the top of the material before each cut...
dang string must have broke
well if that could be a Z axis limit it might be a little less exciting
that is what I was just thinking about
also the Hypertherm has connection points for the tip voltage signal labeled + and - on the main circuit board so they make that easy
Thats convenient, no guessing
For non HF start torches I can assemble a THCAD that has the right resistors for 0-300V
on the main card so its wont need the external divider but the external resistors are safer
especially if they are located at the Plasma supply.
yes it is much safer to have them inside of the plasma torch. btw, the hypertherm 1250 is a non HF start
Good, dont want to be piping the plasma power around on skinny wires,
HF start have very nasty EMI problems, but I think The THCAD would work with them,
just need HV resistors to survive the 20KV or so starting voltage
seems like off the shelf THC's have a hard time coping with HF start plasma torches from what I've read on the Zone
Yah, A-Ds dont really like Tesla coil input :-)
If you have the resistors inside the torch or plasma supply, you can get 300V open circuit
if the THCAD is disconnected but current is limited to 100 uA so theres no shock hazard
that's good to know :)
well after some searching it looks like the 487k resistors are a 0411 size :) learning eagle is fun
Power dissipation of the whole series resistor string is just 30 mW
so they could be shrink tubed
that would make it easy
I see you're having fun
[20:06:52] <alex_joni> http://failblog.org/2009/04/05/serious-safety-fail-2/
HaHa looks like that would deter the sending of _any_ alarms
except for a kid who would in a heartbeat figure out how to do it with out getting caught
use a stick :D
whoa.. this is cool: http://lifehacker.com/5195999/portable-ubuntu-runs-ubuntu-inside-windows
hey, all. quick question. i've got a standard 2.8 version installed on 6.06, but haven't seen an udate message for 2.3
do i need a new install for 2.3? or what?
major rev updates (2.2.x to 2.3.0) aren't automatic
you have to ask it to update to 2.3
was just looking for that. thanks.
[20:23:12] <jmkasunich> http://failblog.org/2009/03/23/parking-fail-11/
was thinking i could get an r/v in that hole faster
good morning.One question for pyvcp. with xemc interface the pyvcp scripts fuction or no?
What is the procedure for upgrading from Dapper to Hardy? I started the update, but it says that it will remove EMC2 (and lots of other stuff). Do I just do the regular Ubuntu upgrade to Hardy, or are there special instructions?
wildrice: you can do the regular update to hardy
but after it finishes, you need to run the emc2 install script
just as if you would on a fresh 8.04 install
wildrice: bear in mind that I only tried the complete upgrade once, but it worked for me
remember to backup your data first
good morning.i prove the xemc interface with pyvcp , but the pyvcp not start with xemc interface. because?
you need to start it yourself from the hal file
loadusr pyvcp ...
the exact commands you can see in the halui_pyvcp sample dir for example
good mornin alex. i start halui_pyvcp example and change the interface in ini file of axis at xemc.with axis the pyvcp started, with xemc no started.
BigJohnT, hey u there old man? haha
Ok, I am going to hit the button. Looks like I will see in a couple of hours. Thanks.
wildrice, don't forget to back up your machine config files too
Just the stuff in the emc2 folder in my home folder, Right?
since it wants to remove emc2
I backed up my entire home folder, but nothing it outside of that.
motioncontrol: what is the error?
SkinnYPuP: removing emc2 won't remove your config files
thanks for the correction alex, didn't know that
no problem, just usefull to know ;)
backing these up is always a lot better than to be sorry afterwards though
using apt-get remove emc2, won't even remove the sample configs from /etc/emc2 (in 2.2.x)
only using apt-get remove --purge emc2 will
alex not are the error.the terminal write : warning:cannot open file; no such file or directory
sounds like a typo
or you don't have xemc compiled
check if sim/xemc.ini starts
I suspect you don't Xaw libs & co installed, and xemc didn't get compiled
Linux pubuntu 22.214.171.124-co-0.7.3 #1 PREEMPT Sat May 24 22:27:30 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
ok i control
alex excuse. i start the config halui_pyvcp and i have change only in halui.ini only the dispay line : axis in xemc.when start the emc the xemc open normaly , but the pyvcp panel no started . i sue the cvs version.You thing i recompile ?
motioncontrol: I need an error message to tell you what's wrong
start emc2 from a terminal, and pastebin the log
[21:22:20] <motioncontrol> http://pastebin.ca/1383070
I am now Gamma-X
nothing else there?
try emc -d
ok i prove
how do you tell eagle what size board your going to use?
BigJohnT: it depends on how much you pay :P
The outside peremeter is the board size
[21:25:17] <motioncontrol> http://pastebin.ca/1383077
it shows about a 3 x 4 board and I want a 1 x 4 board...
any messages in dmesg?
try a sudo dmesg -c (to clear dmesg)
then run emc2 once
you just move the outside perimeter to 1X4
ok i prove
skunkworks: got it thanks
what's up Gamma-X
getting ready for bed haha. I told u about the whole iraq ting right?
yeah im in iraq...
fwiw I get the same thing as motioncontrol when I change [DISPLAY]DISPLAY=xemc in halui_pyvcp/halui.ini
what are you doing over there
Im a contractor. I do media forensics haha
sounds like fun to me
[21:30:39] <motioncontrol> http://pastebin.ca/1383090
yeah its pretty awsome actually haha
gettin a little hotter day by day though.
but that's not the reason that pyvcp doesn't start
pretty cool to see the helicopters flying all over. Lots of gun fire 2.
POSTGUI_HALFILE = pyvcp.hal
ah, that only gets run by AXIS
Only axis supports POSTGUI_HALFILE
I think I might give up on emc and just buy a working cnc machine or a new controller period...
change it to just HALFILE
I don't see any reason that it uses POSTGUI_HALFILE, also fwiw
good morning jepler . i don't use the pyvcp with xemc?
jepler: I think initially it was set up to be part of AXIS
motioncontrol: he just said: change POSTGUI_HALFILE to HALFILE in halui.ini, and it will work
ok i prove
right, having made the two changes shown here I get xemc and pyvcp: http://pastebin.ca/1383094
the "cannot open file ;" message comes from inside Xt, after it tries to open a file with an empty name
ok more thanks now fuction ok
BigJohnT: If you have any hangups just ask. I know I asked a few questions on here. Jepler and cradek have used eagle quite a bit and now I have a pretty good Idea how things work
skunkworks: thanks I seem to have a board layout done and am fumbling around trying to see what is next to say drill the holes...
motioncontrol: the other warning is because you did not specify [DISPLAY]HELP_FILE in your inifile. You can specify any text file you like, and I guess xemc will display it when you click the "Help" button.
BigJohnT: are you going to cnc it?
at least I think so LOL
ok thanks for info jepler i add the help file.in Italy is 00.00 pm i start my sleep.Good day at all.
skunkworks: I might just cnc the holes then use the sharpie method for the traces...
BigJohn: Do you have PCB-gcode installed yet?
not that I know of...
is that part of eagle or something else
It is installed into the egale libs.
You can get a copy at: http://pcbgcode.org/index.php?5
I just installed it a few weeks ago, but it really seems to work well. It does not optimize the tool paths, but there is another package that you can add to do that.
BigJohnT: I haved ^ ... But I currently use the script written by jepler/cradek. http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/
But I use tool length setting with a microswith with is already setup in the one by jepler/cradek
Skunkworks, I will have to give that one a try too. Thanks.
one cool feature of the unpy.net one is that you can use two trace removal tools -- a coarse one and a fine one. a not so great feature is that you have to modify the .ulp (eagle script) to change anything about the output..
[21:54:23] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/top.JPG
ok, I have gcode.ulp in my /eagle/ulp directory
jepler: works great. I have not needed more. there are a few things that I would like to see if I could add. simple things like tool length cancel at the end of the program
how do I use gcode.ulp?
if it can't find it with "run gcode", just type "run" then navigate to gcode.ulp using the file browser
ok, I see a ulp button :)
* BigJohnT slaps his forehead
works now :)
[22:04:24] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/44450
the preview doesn't work for some odd reason (glxgears seems to be working though)
jepler: any ideas what this means? http://pastebin.ca/1383125
I get a whole bunch of html stuff in the top of the.ngc file...
BigJohnT: windows or linux?
[22:13:10] <BigJohnT> http://pastebin.ca/1383130
oh - I think it doesn't work with the latest version of eagle.....
Now that I think about it...
I was going to mention that a few weeks ago'
BigJohnT: your singlesided.gpar is downloaded wrong. it should be only a few lines.
cradek: thanks, I'll do it again
portable_ubuntu might be a really nice way to show off emc2
for windows people who might want to switch
it's using colinux (http://www.colinux.org/)
now I get a start point too close to probe point :(
well, I gotta run bbl
thanks for the help guys
I think it uses g30 to find the tool length probe switch - maybe you need to monkey with that.
good night all
my issue with the latest verion of eagle> It was permission issue with the ulp directory
(just fixed it)
* skunkworks is now a linux guru ;)
I should also add a header for pluging in a fan
I got the board to load in emc but I had to modify all the probe moves...