so I decided to build a sim only install of EMC on Ubuntu 8.10 AMD64
It built, but the preview in axis fails to work properly
mostly you see the background of the window, the preview pane seems to be rendered behind that
make sure desktop effects are disabled
that must be it
ubuntu screwed all non-fullscreen opengl applications in the name of progress
fortunately you can disable it
that worked thx
all of a sudden one of the things I've been looking at on ebay has been going for a lot more money
JymmmEMC: you ever try to track something from DealExtreme?
eric_unterhausen: why? order tkaing longer than expected?
did you check your order status?
yes, it has left hongkong
ok, takes about 7 days
it seems usps will track it, in the sense they tell you that they delivered it?
how long has it been since it left HK?
lol, ther's a big pond inbetween... give it 7 days
going to the Us I assume
what did they send it on, a piper cub?
unless you paid for air
free shipping is boat?
I would figure it would sit in docs for more than 7 days
Nah, too much crap on docks
full of unsold cars
Might sit in US Customs for a while though, depending on what you ordered
Give it 7 days
will probably be 5 days, but give em 7
They are very good about keeping ppl updated and the like.
upc code has been removed == free after rebate?
mic6 is much nicer than 6061
the chips break themselves
what is mic6?
sometimes called jig and tooling plate
wonder what series it really is
we have machines 6061, 2024, and 7075
seems like 2024 and 7075 are not as gummy
yeah, 2024 and 7075 machine nicely too, but they are more expensive
6061 does all sorts of strange things in fatigue
at metal express, 3/4" plate, 12" x 12"
6061 = $91
some grad students were fatiguing some, and they thought something was wrong until I pointed out that they were breaking 6061
mic6 = $80
it's flatter too, correct?
2024 not in stock (call for quote)
7075 also not in stock
i bet they don't get much call for it
the mic6 is nicely finished?
we have some
at least we have something called "tooling plate"
I believe that's the stuff
cradek: did you say that about fatigue, or aluminum pricing?
that does seem strange
yeah, I didn't expect it to be less than 6061, expected about the same
there is probably a reason for it though
with 2024 and 7075 quite a bit more
6061 isn't usually that cheap
ok, 6061 _plate_ was $91
cheap stuff is 5053 or somesuch
but 6061 extruded, 3/4 x 12 x 12" long, is $55
mic6 from mcmaster is cheaper
as long as you want the sizes they sell
they have the size you bought
I just used 12 x 12 as an example
the pieces I bought are 3.5 x 3.25 x 1.25 thick
it is good to remember mcmaster tho - they usually _are_ cheaper if you can use their stock sizes
* jmkasunich debates: start the next operation, or get a decent night's sleep for a change
I always do neither
jmkasunich: sleep tonight, then you'll have the weekend to work
anyone up for a question?
Question: I have just installed ubuntu 8.04 i386 version, and also installed emc via "emc2-install.sh" method.
Everything seemed to load, but when I select the rtai app (2.6.24-16-rtai) from boot menu - the screen turns white and comp locks up.
The Generic kernal (2.6.24-23-generic) works fine. Cannot run EMC without the real time kernal.
does ctrl-alt-backspace get you to a command prompt?
nope - it just kicked me out to the login screen. lol
so the comp was not locked up then
sorry, it shouldn't let you log in
did you mean to try this when I load the real time kernal?
when you get the white screen
what should it do>?and why?
you seem to have an x problem
X11, the graphics system for linux
I was talking to archivist yesterday - he said that I needed to put emc into simulator mode.??
that's not going to help you run a machine
you see - emc loaded- but It wont let me run it without the real time kernal loaded
but I do not have it hooked up to a machine - and no IO or moton control boards inj comp yet either
if you just want to learn about running emc, then sim is good enough
you select a sim config from the menu
so your saying I can just run emc with th ereal time kernal without anything hooked up - just a com?
i cannot getthe sim menu
you can run a stepper machine config in real time without a machine
when I try to start emc from app menu - it says it needs the rtai loaded
no, that doesn't work
let's go back to the rtai kernel, when you boot that, get white screen, hit ctrl-alt-backspace, can you log in?
or does the computer reboot?
I havent tryed that - I talking to you from the computer now. Can you give me a few minutes and i'll be back?
if it does give me a login - then i should be fine correct?
no, you need to manually reconfigure x
there is a program that does it, you have to hit enter a batch of times
so hit enter a buch of times - if i get loged in?
then hit enter
it doesn't hurt anything afaik
sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
thanks ill try that
How goes the homing?
Guest793 is now known as skunkworks_
didn't get a chance to work on it last night
but this weekend, it will home :)
we also need to calibrate the steps-per-inch
we're finishing up the firmware in the controller too... amplifier enable, charge pump, e-stop
JymmmEMC is now known as Red70sShow
Red70sShow is now known as JymmmEMC
fenn_ is now known as fenn
JymmmEMC is now known as MrAsshole
MrAsshole is now known as JymmmEMC
does anyone feel like answering some possibly dumb gcode questions?
you could ask them and find out for sure :)
how are non-circular curves typically transformed into gcode arcs?
with CAM software
short line segments
I mean mathematically
jepler wrote a program that uses biarcs to segment splines (I think)
I'm not sure where it is, but that could be a starting point
the python one? yeah I'm looking at that
this seems to be more of a math question though :)
was this used? http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S001044850400003X
there is some stuff in ttt the truetype tracer as well that cuts a spline to small segments
gentlmen, would it be bad form to make a torrent of the ubuntu606+emc iso? Mostly for my own convenience, but I will of course understand if you want to keep a handle on downloads
torrent away if you like
as far as I'm concerned
thank you sir
we are liking the software up in Toronto ;)
brilliant idea on making a live CD with an install option, by the way
note that the bandwidth we have available is pretty high, in the 10TB/month range, so don't feel like you need a tracker to ease the load on our hosting
that said, go ahead anyway :)
cool; I was more concerned about horning in on someone else's ability to control their software distribution... ya know, throw off yer hit counters ;)
one day I'll figure out how to read those HTML logs ;)
apolgies btw to anyone who is a madam and not a sir; that was presumptuous of me! :)
you insensitive clod!
* the_goat stumbles into the only all-female linux cnc channel
that sounds fun
I'd have to send my wife in though
(and she's not interested)
[19:24:10] <skunkworks_> http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w231/Spruft/P1010039-1.jpg
[19:24:38] <skunkworks_> http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18483&start=330
anybody using the 5i20 board from mesa?
i seem to remember a few people were
A few people here.. cradek for sure
Mine is still in the anti-static bag
i was curious what they are using for the 50 pin connectors, or where they are sourcing the parts
a 50 pin multiconductor cable is a bit of a beast
so i'm guessing its customary to run the cable to an auxiliary panel, and terminate it there as needed
instead of running everything into the PC
digikey has connectors
breakouts are a pain - they're way more expensive than it seems they should be
there's a company that sells them for around $35 each I think, but I don't remember the name
I think the next higher price is in the $100 range, from Phoenix Contact or Weidmuller or the like
well a terminal strip would work just as well
just curious what's been done
sure, now to find a terminal strip, a 50-pin cable/connector, and a PCB, and to wire it all up ...
do you have a mesa board?
PCB-mount screw terminals are actually $0.50 or so each
I have several ;)
i was thinking a din rail mount stacked terminal
I also have opto-22 boards that can connect to them, and a number of DIN rail mount breakouts
I don't recall if the $35 boards are DIN-mount
the Phoenix and Weidmuller ones are
it seems like it would be pretty necessary, just to avoid having to splice and run a mess of tangled wires
Mesa also sells -T versions of a few of their daughtercards, which have terminal strip headers on them instead of pin headers
they also sell the mating connectors
yes, I agree
it's not only reliability, it's also time
soldering 100 or 150 connections per board (unless you just hand the terminals off a cable) is a nightmare
i was thinking something like this: http://web6.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Terminal_Blocks/Standard_DIN-Rail_Terminal_Blocks_(order_by_Block_Type)/Mini_Terminal_Blocks_-a-_Accessories/10_AWG_(EURO_4-z-15)/DN-M10B
that's per connector actually, on the breakout board
well, you could do that, but you'll have a really bad time of it if you use a flat 50-pin cable to go to one side
what about shielding for the 50 pins
there are 2-stack terminal blocks as well, which may be better in this application (only marginally though)
its probably worth it for a breakout board
you shouldn't need it, if you use twisted pair cable ($$$)
i like soldering though :)
i've used some 40-pin cable that is sort of rolled up in shielding like a burrito, then the whole burrito is shielded with a coax-type braid
oh that is glorious
you can get the Phoenix or Weidmuller ones on eBay from time to time as well
in the $15-35 range
which are DIN mount
so you run the 50 pin out of the PC and into a satellite box with the drives / IO / etc
uh - sort of
I don't have a CNC set up here yet, though I have used the 5i22 in a commercial project
terminate it in that breakout board, and point to point wire in the panel
sure, except that you probably need level shifting and/or optoisolation
probably put the VFD outside the box to keep it from getting too noisy
so you'd use a 7i37 for that (the 16-in/8-out I/O board)
i have a bunch of optoisolaters
which means you can spend the extra $30 on the 7i37-T and terminal strips, and not deal with an extra 50-pin cable
got a bag of a few hundred
don't remember, but i'm using them on my current setup and htey work well
ICs or something like an OPTO-22 module?
i do have several opto22 SCRs
oh, so you'll have to make boards with power, pull-ups/pull-downs, connectors, terminals, and the optos
or SSRs i guess they call them
SSR != SCR :)
yeah my optos are self biasing though
just a current limiting resistor on the input and output
only if there's a supply somewhere
there are pull-ups available on the 5i2x pins, but I don't know the current source/sink capability
you should test your optos before building up your boards
according to their datasheet
my optos only need 5ma on the input
and they have a ctr of about 85%
plenty to drive an SSR
well, if they work then great. if not - not so great ;)
they work fine with a parallel port output
the mesa output seems a bit more robust than the parport ones
it actually looks like you owuldn't need to optoisolate them at all, unless you need the level shifting too
just don't cross any wires ;0(
i've seen enough magic smoke
I'm kind of bummed. I was watching a vouple of ebay lots of the AC output opto-22 modules, and I missed bidding on both
they ended up going for about $1 each, which is a steal
and of course there haven't been any more anywhere near that price since
the ones that plug into their module racks
those are pricey arent' they
$10-$15 each usually
the nice thing about that system is that you can mix and match inputs, outputs, and AC/DC on each bit
so you're not stuck with 16 in and 8 out (at least not with the hostmot2 driver)
well i'm probably going to use some massive steppers on this one, so i may not even need a mesa 5i20
steppers are just so much cheaper to buy and integrate than servos, i'm really not seeing the upside to servos at all for this
maybe a spindle servo
there are several Phoenix breakouts on eBay (these happen to be in my watch list): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260301183909 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140271044443 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270225273470
servos have a few advantages: 1) real feedback, 2) "reserve power", 3) much higher speeds and dynamic range
steppers go plenty fast though
there are also disadvantages, namely that you need to use a feedback device like an encoder
you don't have to gear them down so much to get good power out of them either
Mariss of Geckodrive has this rule of thumb: if your power needs are <200W, use steppers. above 300W, use servos. between 200 and 300W, you get to figure it out :)
yes you do actually
the real feedback is nice, but you can put a 400ppr encoder on there and half step steppers to make sure you don't miss steps, then its not too bad
stepper torque increases with lower speeds
almost on both counts :)
1) if you're going to put a feedback device on a stepper, then you have eliminated the main disadvantage of a servo
which to me is the main disadvantage
i'm talking ac servos btw
2) the only thing you can do with a stepper and an encoder is fault, you can't use the feedback to make the machine work better
haven't looked at the dc servos, although they seem to be popular
oh, AC servos are still pretty expensive
i was wanting to put 750-1000 watts on the x, and a little more on the z
3) technically stepper torque decreases as you increase speed - it never goes above the holding torque (so it doesn't increase once you get below the corner frequency)
you pretty much need servos then, if you need 1HP +
or are you talking oz-in?
no i'm talking hp
about 1 hp
maybe 3/4 would be okay
i'm shooting for a maximum thrust of about 3000 lbs
how large a motor are you thinking of using? (NEMA frame size)
hadn't picked yet
42 then :)
larger steppers can't go faster than about 600-1000 RPM, and that's with zero torque delivered to the load
[21:50:21] <dareposte> http://servo-motor.ws/manuals/L010533%20-%20Estun%20EMJ%2080mm.pdf
um. that's not a stepper ... :)
that's what i was looking at for ac servos
what kind of cost are those?
not bad. and the drive?
ebay special maybe
otherwise $800-$1000 for a drive
i think they would work with the rutex drives though
gotta be careful there, AC servos often only work well with a matching drive
they have different schemes for commutation and different optimal drive waveforms
the anaheim drives are $500-$800 depending on the servo size
for a 1hp drive about $500
that's a pretty good deal
then cables are another $150 probably :)
it seems like 750w servo systems tend to be in that price range though
$800-$1200 for a budget type unit
i'm not sure how it would interface to EMC though
analog or PWM for the command, encoder feedback for feedback
yeah i'm not sure if their drives support that though, i woudl think so but i haven't verified
you either split the encoder signals to EMC and the drive, or some drives will output quadrature back to a controller
but i guess the point is you can get some monster steppers and drives for cheaper than that
well, look very carefully at the torque curves before you plunk down any money
large motors have a much much lower corner frequency, and once you pass the corner frequency the torque drops
[21:58:00] <dareposte> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H2160-62-8AT.pdf
that's pulses per second, not RPM ...
looks like they would be decent to about 600 rpm
half-stepping, so 400 steps/rev
ooh 300 rpm then
missed the half stepping
2:1 gearing and 5TPI xcrew?
actually direct drive
and 10TPI screw? :)
gives 0.001" per full step
then something is screwy in your calculations (or mine) :)
300 rev/min * 0.2 in/rev = 60 in/min
maybe dc servos would be worth looking into
the problem is the biggest dc servos that seem to be readily available are only 226 in-oz
at $200 each, I'd think you could find bigger ones
(the cost of those steppers)
those are nema 34 dc servos, peak torque is in teh 1200 in-oz range
but i'm not sure about sizing them based on that
you size based on the continuous torque
but you get an extra boost during acceleration if it's needed, which steppers can't do
you typically need a much higher torque rating for a stepper because of that (and the decreasing torque of a stepper vs. speed)
bbiab - wife just got home
so i figure with my 0.200" lead screw, desiring a 2500-3000lb thrust load, i'd like to have about 700 in-oz of torque if it's geared down 2:1
i'm not sure if that's overkill or not though for a typical 16-18x40 lathe
gotta go, i'm supposed to go set up some wireless router today
dareposte: I just used the 7i33 and 7i37 cards. I didn't need any separate breakouts.