SWPadnos: what limit is that?
I don't know
zero I thought
chucks flying around?
chucks flying bad
I was going to watch Chuck tonight
I renamed one of the Indians Chuck, it has a twisted logic to it that he can't deny
Chuck Woolery used to host "Wheel Of Fortune"
don't remember that
the Pre-Sajak days
that was when vanna white thought she should be host
there were pre-sajak days?
about a decade maybe
maybe more actually
I don't know. I think she was on the old show for a while, but not the whole run (but I'm not sure about that)
[00:52:52] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_Fortune_(US_daytime_game_show)
no, only about 6 years of Chuck
heh. I was going to check imdb
I found what I wanted the other day on wikipedia, and they said that it was an orphan and should be deleted
(the article talks about "turners" too)
The original show concept was not meant to have a hostess, as a mechanical puzzle board was constructed for the pilot. However, Susan Stafford was brought in because time ran out before the motorized board could be completed
(and yet here we are, decades later, and there's still eye-candy tapping LCD screens or whatever the hell it is)
eye caqndy sells much better than mechanical things
that is a matter of knowing your audience
Hi, how do I fix this: checking for glib... configure: error: no -- required until somebody makes modbus optional
john_f, have you compiled with that machine before?
ok. then apt-get build-dep emc2
if you haven't already
actually, just make sure you've gone through the correct steps at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
probably section 2
OK thanks I will look at that again
hey, are you going to ESC this year?
No, I don't think I could drive to Chicago without the CEO approval.
plus it's in San Jose again ;)
Are you going?
Presenting an EMC topic?
nope, not this time
I may do something next year though
cool. maybe by next year they will let us go again
I think it's going to be a lot smaller this year. I just got an email saying that all the Friday sessions were being moved to other times
they cut it down to 4 days instead of 5
yes I have been called by ESC people to go
I'm just wondering if I'll get 20% of my payment back, since they reduced the length and the price
I wouldn't count on it. 0 stray cats were added???
yep, that's normal, though strange ;)
it has to do with making manpages I believe
crap. I think I'm getting a cold
which normally wouldn't matter, but since I gave blood today, it makes it annoying
ask for it back and see if they'll give it to you
"hey, i'm getting sick, do you really want that blood? No? Can i have it back?"
well, it's not all that appetizint. I think I'd let them take care of it
OK I couldn't get emc to run in in "sim" mode reading on I think I needed to make clean right?
did you source scripts/emc-environment?
yes but it said that it was only useful in run in place?
oh, did you use "make install"?
(I'm not suggesting that, by the way)
no just make
$ ./configure --enable-run-in-place --enable-simulator
ok, so you're using run-in-place
so you need to source emc-environment so that the proper paths are set up for you
I mean just -- enable simulator i did not -- run in place
do you have an installed EMC on this computer?
then I'd do it again, using run-in-place
"it" being compile
I don't care about the current install. I just want to run in sim mode
you could install the sim packages instead of the RT ones
with no rati
i think i need some gang tooling
[03:21:54] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYqN90gHOZM
check out cnc swiss screw machines
or cnc swiss lathes
if you like this kind of thing
look at the depth of cut on that first roughing pass
i thought he was about to crash it
probably leaded brass or something though
copy turning insert
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
and with a 5-10 hp lathe, you too can do those kind of cuts
the okuma you were looking at could do those cuts no problem
yeah i didn't get it though
sort of a mixed blessing probably
talk about a big project
man those swiss screw machines you weren't kidding
this one has the hex come out of the spindle some how
yep, that's what's meant by swiss
[03:29:20] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPAK5I1HJAw
the spindle is actually behind what you're looking at
and is the Z axis.
the thing that you can see is just the guide bushing
i guess with all that live tooling it's easier to move the spindle than the tools
it's more accurate
all the cutting forces are right up on the bushing, it's hard to make a swiss chatter
here's a 12 axis machine!
[03:31:28] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcDN_YB5EQc
fenn_ is now known as fenn
i like the sub spindle
[03:32:40] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-h_1e0h3r0
no real parts in it though, just cutting air
i can't even tell what it's doing
try to wrap your head around programming that
just program each tool position like any other lathe
yeah but the spindles too
its indexing around with a spindle turret or something
yeah, the carrier
i'm sold for gang tooling now
i thought it was great to drill from the cross slide, but this is even better
i got a spindle encoder in the mail today
only 100 ppr though
enough for rigid tapping and better threading though
i have a big section of hsr-15 linear rail that is starting to look like an extended cross slide
[03:42:02] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymTidgzzqEU&feature=related
funny voice-over - no accent at all, but horrible grammer
i like the pirates music
i can't focus on the machine, keep thinking of rum
and keira knightley
I knew I heard that somewhere before, but couldn't remember where
i've seen that movie more times than i care to count
wow the 3d sim even shows chips flying
what shuld i grease delrin with ?
it says it need initial greasing or what the word is, but cant find with what :)
huh ? :)
im talking in the application, aparently something called crisco is used while cutting delrin ? :)
not that I'm an expert in tribology or anything, but you didn't state the application
its a linear guide in my cnc machine, metal against delrin
i think its delrin, or its some kind of mix of delrin and other plastics ... if i remember right from when i bought it
aparently someone has used silicone spray for it also
gah, what are the best driving options for a mill ?
kogwheels or whatever its called?
(from motor to lead screw)
those with strips betwene them :P
[10:36:21] <MrSunshine_> http://www.bengtssons-maskin.se/uploads/texter50_large.jpg
I drive direct
thing is that the mill i want to convert is quite heavy to move :)
toothed belt should be ok if setup without play
expensive tho ... about 700sek for just that, another 780 sek for new motors, and like 600 - 700 sek for new driver
btw, 1.85N is that a strong stepper or?
1.85N without a radius means not a lot
what do you mean with radius ?
to drive a lead screw on a mill :P
measure the torque needed to drive the mill leadscrew
how would i do that? :/
bar and weight
so a 1kg weight i attach on it and slide it out until it starts moving the axel ?
something like that
but that bar will have weight also :P
cant make a bar that has no weight
bar should be balanced, equal length both sides
ahh true :)
or disk/pulley and add weight to a bucket on string
can i test motors this way also, take a stepper, connect it and see how much force it takes to move it? :)
cool, should test the motors i have on the little mill =)
dunno how to get a bar stuck on a round axis tho
but what i can read about measuring newton i have to know a speed also ?
iirc there is help on the wiki with calculations you need
what wiki ? :)
emc knowledge base?
lol n o wonder my machine jumps steps, it cant even run when i have just pressed on the shaft on the motor :P
(balanced and axial force ...)
you need MORE POWER :)
if i turn down the speed to 20% its vertualy unstoppable :P
but then it moves like 2cm/min :P
MrSunshine: are you running a servo system?
MrSunshine_: are you running a servo system?
well, anyone it seems I have some issues on how to adjust my pots. Currently my motor hums often and does not accurately go where I tell it to. for example if I manually tell it to go .010 it may only go .008 and then vibrate back and forth a 2 thousands. Im using a tach btw. How do i tweak this properly?
Also, does the fact that I have no friction or load on this be a cause for its humming. also I am using a 1000 line encoder directly attached to the motor.
UncleGemc: how many encoder counts is .002 in your system? In emc, one usually configures pid.#.deadband (which is given in distance units like mm or in, not in counts) to be somewhere in the range of 1-5 counts in order to fix this kind of behavior, but that means that the steady-state error can be as big as deadband
deadband is the default .002
Should I make it .000?
yes, an unloaded motor is often more difficult to tune, and there's little point in tuning it anway -- the tuning when it is actually driving a load around will be entirely different
no, I'm suggesting that to get rid of steady-state oscillation that you have to increase deadband
how would I get rid of steady-state osc?
hmm, can i single step motors in emc ?
im not even sure ive got the wires right .. when running it with the pin on it looks to behave a bit strage
ok according to how (providing I am reading this correctly) it doesnt show the count of deadband as being defined it only comments the count should be over 1
lol how = hal
UncleGemc: pid deadband is in position units (i.e., mm or in according to your inifile)
ohhh I see
My mind is latent...
UncleGemc: so if you can't, through other tuning, stop an oscillation of +-.002mm, then your last resort is to increase deadband to be bigger than the steady state oscillation
What is the steady state osc? is that basically the motor being told to ping-pong between a range?
MrSunshine: in the AXIS GUI, you can configure the units available for incremental jog so that one is exactly the size of a motor step. Or, in MDI you can use an incremental move that is exactly the size of a motor step
jepler: any pointers to how i do it? :)
MrSunshine: [DISPLAY]INCREMENTS, documented: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_axis.html#r1_3_5
MrSunshine: G91 is incremental distance mode, documented: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
so i take lead screw pitch divded by steps right ?=
0.8 / 48 .. bad motors i know :=
jepler: thank you I have a better understanding of I got going on now. It appears if I give the motor some friction is keeps it from doing that inertia bounce problem I been having. It seems when there is a small load or some friction the humming and vibration basically stop.
UncleGemc: yes, I think that's fairly typical
UncleGemc: without a load, the motor will accelerate much faster, so that even a small command voltage can move it a fair distance in 1ms
MrSunshine: it would be 1/(inifile SCALE value for that motor)
hmm, using 1 stepping i get 48 either way, but the motor turns diferent ways if i switch two cables :P
got ya :)
5° here today... windier than heck.
seems that however i connect the stepper it does exactly the same thing .. only thing that changes is the direction
so how do i then know if ive connected it right? :P
i know the coils goes to the right, but the wire eonnection on the place they connect i dont know :)
my bipolar stepper motor
trying to figure out if ive connected it wrong :)
but however i switch the cables it still jumps the same :P
only diferent directions
[13:15:38] <BJT-Work> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?StepMotorWireIdentification
Does anyone know how ot setup EMC to work on Lab volt 5400 mill with serial (not parallel) port?
Guest943: emc2 does not support any serial-interface systems
it can drive your step signals if you modify the controller
but isnt that abuot unipolar motors BJT-Work?
looks like that to me .. "connect wire 1 and it should be hard to turn"
sorry it is all I could find
no .. a biplar with only one connected wont be that :P
there might be more info on the gecko web site...
sigh i cant find anything :7
[13:29:25] <BJT-Work> http://www.stepperworld.com/Tutorials/pgBipolarTutorial.htm
Hmmm, I wonder if I could use car batteries instead of gellcells in this UPS
hmm, i need a kernel update to get my wireless stuff working ... but no rtai kernel for that :/
what can i do ? :)
MrSunshine: your best bet is to get a different NIC that works with the kernel you have
download the packages, stick them on a thumb drive, and install them with dpkg (or roght-click them and select "install with gdebi")
but it depends on which wireless adapter you have. I have had bad luck with a Fritz! USB device
jepler: well i cant afford to just go around buying new computer hwardware every time a kernel changes :P
SWPadnos: What the heack is a Fritz! USB device?
Fritz! is a brand that's relatively popular in Germany
guess it sucks to be .DE
I had never heard of them either, until my nephew presented that as his network connection ;)
Broadcom and Atheros seem to be the most common supported these days
I had the Fritz! device working with ndiswrapper for a while, but it didn't survive an update or reboot or something
don't you have to re-configure it after each kernel update?
hard to tell when you can't search the web
oh please, that's not your only compute
when I'm at my ex-brother-in-law's house in Germany ...
Here, let me download the interwebs to a floppy for you
must be one of those NeXT optical floppies
now this is funny
I'm on the Nokia site looking at phones, and the first question they ask is "What key features are most important to you?"
"making phone calls" isn't a choice
SWPadnos: Well, isn't that kinda like "What traits do you want to have in a wife?" and looking for the "having sex" as an answer
having sex isn't a trait ;)
(it's a treat :) )
well, hopefully it's implied
SWPadnos: Hey, you think using car batteries instead of gelcells would work? Or would the voltage difference (12v vs 13.8) cause issues?
in a UPS
car batteries are 12V
they get charged at ~14V
car are 13.8
no, the batteries are 12
the alternator puts out a little extra so the battery will charge in less than infinite time
hmmm, not that I dont believe you, but are you sure?
pretty darned sure
go to your car, don't start it, and check the voltage at the battery terminals
then start it and do the same
Ok, either way, whatcha think?
could work, but not the right form factor ;)
Hey, after yesterday it should be...
IIRC, gel-cels have excellent performance relative to memory and energy density (for non-"high tech" batteries)
I knew the existing batteries were bad, so went to remove them. Cracked the cover as they were too swelled to remove from the front. To my surprise one of the gellcells swelled 1.5"
I had to take the whole UPS apart to get them out safely (face shield in place). They got hot enough to nelt/fuse together
So now I have 8 7.2Ah gellcells in one big stack sitting on the garage floor wrapped in plastic bags to take to the recycling place.
only one tiny dime sized spot corroded the metal slightly
just on the surface
but instead of going through that again, I thought maybe car batteries might be better
apparently there's less acid in a gel-cell
Would need 4 of them to recreate the 24V+24V = 48V
SWPadnos: Or very well sealed
[17:19:23] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA
I'm logging. I don't understand 'bbokmark', skunkworks_. Try /msg logger_emc help
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-03-11.txt
SWPadnos: What I'd really like is to be able to use the batteries as a 12V source too as well as UPS. My car battery died couple of weeks ago, couldn't start my car with a charger boost or with the gf's car (honda). It really bugged me
Oh, speaking of which... It was like 7pm when I found out. I called 3 Sears and they couldn't do it that same day. I usually goto Sears for battery as no matter where you are there's usually a sears.
open until 8:30 here :)
Called 3 Pep-Boys too, they couldn't replace a battery either. So, I lost a day of work over a frickin battery. The GF suggested to call AA to jump my car so I could hit the Sears the next morning.
you couldn't do it yourself?
Well, what I found out is that AAA sells and installs batteries. and warranties them for 3 years exchange + 3yrs pro-rated. So, you can get a new battery or warranty on-site at 3am
skunkworks_: Like I said, I use Sears for the nation wide warranty
Plus they have the tools to check the entire electrical system
Ironically, so does AAA I found out.
And AAA warranty is covered in US/CA/MX too
It was $136
You just can't beat that "peace of mind", especially after all the grief of calling around and nobody could help me that evening.
If you're not a AAA member they will still sell to you, but I think less the discount.
$136 seems to be about double what Costco charges, but the prices may have gone up recently
The retail price of the battery for my car was $89, excluding tax, core charge, and installation.
at Sears that is
I figure that the extra $50 for coming to me to install it, plus the NA warranty is worth it.
yey, now im on wireless, was a blocking drive4r :/
ssb .. cant get it to not load at boot either
Hell, Sears Auto closes at 8pm now.
they are cutting back hours
Just wait till businesses start closing at sunset to save on the electric bill =)
SWPadnos: Heh, do you have to wait in line forever at costco to get a battery replaced?
no. I buy the battery, take it home, and install it myself
since all you need is a wrench and maybe a brush
SWPadnos: Eh, My grease monkey days are over.
SWPadnos: Though the tester they had was pretty cool
Especially made for AAA
Lil hand held device with a keypad and LCD on it. You connected it to the battery terminals and clampon amp meter. It would test the electrical system for you
you put in the CCA, then would run you thru diagnoxstics
hi alex_joni, I want to ask something about your tripod
how does it find home position?
what power on the steppers do you all use ? .. the Nm markings on them :)
we are probably all using different
fun to see what power levels people are in :)
1.85 newton meters means a 0.1kg force at 1.85 meters from the axel of the motor right ?
Nm isn't a power rating, it's a torque rating
ye, thats what i mean )
actually, it's 1.85 Newtons at 1 meter, or 1 Newton at 1.85 meters (or any other combination that comes out to 1.85 :) )
1N is 1 kg*m/s^2
you are right about a newton being approximately 0.1kg mass at 1 meter in earth's gravity
err, a newton meter
82$ for 3 1.85 Nm Steppers, good or bad price? :)
MrSunshine__: for 3 new ones? probably not a bad price
they're $39 each from Automation direct, so getting them for $82 instead of $117 seems like it's a good price
they are totaly new where i can buy them
[22:19:55] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/nEedX0C5.jpg
john is now known as Guest28306
Question: I have just installed ubuntu 8.04 i386 version, and also installed emc via "emc2-install.sh" method. verything seemed to load but when I select the rtai app from boot menu - the screen turns white and comp locks up
the generic version kernal works fine
Question: I have just installed ubuntu 8.04 i386 version, and also installed emc via "emc2-install.sh" method.
Everything seemed to load, but when I select the rtai app (2.6.24-16-rtai) from boot menu - the screen turns white and comp locks up.
The Generic kernal (2.6.24-23-generic) works fine. Cannot run EMC without the real time kernal.
it can run in simulator mode
but needs the realtime to actually control something
How can I run it in simulator mode? I dont have any motion cards or IO cards in comp yet either.
Do I need those to run in real time?
most use the Live CD where its all setup, no installing needed
I tried that , but the sytem seemed unstable..very unstable. I talked with alex_joni and another guy yesterday
fix the stability problems
nope - I have tried installing from live cd several times same thing? Dont understand why.
cd integrity fine - checksum fine...
this seems to be the only way (I know of) to get it installed
How can I run it in simulator mode?
* archivist gives up on the wiki and impatient users
skunkworks: send somma that over heah
BJT-Work, manual has NO index entry for simulator
user manual that is
* fenn looks woefully at the 216MB remaining on his dying 40GB disk
get some USB sticks
evening all, would there be a spindle encoder expert on hand to have a quick look at my hal and give me some pointers as to what doesnt work?!
put it on pastebin.ca and paste the link here
its on my server at http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/spindle.txt
is that all? you have to add the encoder functions to a thread
i've added a 360ppr encoder, hooked up the A,B and index signals, checked them out on the scope and they are all behaving
fenn yeah i have the encoder function added already since i'm using it elsewhere, so there are enough instances
i took that hal stuff mostly from the devel- stuff on spindle encoders, but changed the encoder mode to quadrature
pjm_, what is the encoder.1.position when you rotate one turn?
let me check
if it's anything other than 1, you need to fix the sxcale (you probably need 1440 anyway, if you have a 360 CPR encoder in quadrature)
so, pjm_ what's the problem?
ah!! yes of course, let me just bang my head on a wall. I had the scale set to 360, not 1440!
the count is ~4 for 1 rev
ok, let us know when the bleeding stops :)
hahh ok it is a wooden wall so no blood
ok that is better, one rev of the spindle now = 1 in the hal-meter monitoring spindle-position
so i have a machine with a stepper-adjustable table hight
but it won't be adjusted during jobs
can I use an auxillary axis for that some how, so I can drive it from emc?
how about W?
which is defined as "a linear axis parallel to the Z axis"
that would work
so I just set AXIS=4
COORDINATES=X Y Z W?
you can also set an ini option called TOOL_LENGTH_IS_ALONG_W or similar, and it will use W for tool length compensation
yes, that's about it
you also need to add an [AXIS_3] section to the ini file
and the HAL files
pjmcnc: rigid tapping success?
skunkworks, just testing ;-)
found a nice soft bit of plastic
cool! it worked ;-) thanks for the pointers!
hahh well i will make one tommorow, its 23:28 here and i'm gonna get a nagging as is off 'er indoors
i've worked out in denmark all week and came straight home and fitted this encoder
that was - not the best choice
hahh oh well
great just screwed in a M6 bolt and it fits perfectly, no slop
ok i will make a short video tommorow of it drilling then tapping a few holes in a bit of perspex
with the livecd, can I start axis from the command line by just typing axis?
then select axis from the menu
once you have done that, emc -l (that's lowercase L) will start the "last config"
also, if you know the path to the ini file you want to use, you can specify it on the command line
cool, i'm debugging my ini files and wanted to see the stdout :)
ah. very useful :)
emcTrajSetAxes failing: axes=4 axismask=107
oh hmm. you may need to call the AXIS_3 section AXIS_8 instead
since W is normally the ninth axis (called 8 when you start at 0)
same error, is there a way to get more details?
you can set the debug level higher
set it to FFFFFFFF to see every little thing EMC does
(more or less)