i didn't realize that was a link
Judedude - Paste the full lin next time - people notice it faster )
where is the wiki page about setting up parports?
[00:04:29] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos
judedude: regarding the networking - you want to get the CNC router going - we can help you do that a lot better if you are talking to us FROM the CNC router, than if you are jogging back and forth between house and garage
why didn't I think to search for netmos when I wanted to set up a parallel port?
All right both computers are in the house now so I won't be leaving.
certainly the wiki could have a better table of contents
judedude: did you try 1450 as the address of the port?
no i used a400 as directed by the setup inst.
the fact that lspci reports the ports in descending order is disturbing to me
I'll send that to the bin as well.
judedude: line 31 and following in the lspci pastebin are the addresses you should try
where do you get a400 from?
the instructions, can't you read?
doesn't say a400 anywhere on the wiki page, so i guess he must have some other instructions
they are in route
anyway i think 1450 is the address you want
someone was on here recently with parport problems
I think the fact that they are in descending order may throw a monkey wrench in the wiki page instructions
I can try 1450. Should the original parport be disabled ?
well if 1450 doesn't work, try 1448, 1440 1430 1458 1460
well my cd doesn't seem to want to read the disk so the instruction i used will take a bit more time.
are you transferring stuff from one computer to another with CDs?
1430 isn't going to work, that one can be skipped
somebody send that man a piece of cat5
I need some too
I have 1000' of cat 5, and I can't find it
I have 100' but i am not using it until I make the router go.
yeah, stick to your principles!
* jmkasunich sighs
a linux computer is only half a computer without a net connection
all the software comes from the internet
all the documentation is on the internet
that guy jmkasunich is just an evil hacker who wants to steal all your porn
all the user support is on the internet
all the updates are on the internet
there's no time to sharpen this axe! Look at all the wood I have to cut!
It has a net connection now. Just not in the garage.
getting a network to the garage can be a bit of a travail
router and motors and drives and breakout box are in the garage, right?
do you have any way to test the parport with the computer in the house?
so the CNC computer is now networked, and you can test it in the house
so talk to us from that computer
here is the command I used per the instructions /sbin/modprobe parport_pc io=0x3f8,a400 irq=4,18
we've asked several times what instructions?
parport_pc is NOT emc2's parallel port driver
I for one have absolutely no idea what you are trying to do
if you'd post the URL for whatever instructions you are reading it would help get us on the same page
Be patient the CN computer that is net worked wont read the cd in the drive where the instruction live.
I'm very confused
are you reading instructions from the web somewhere? or a local file on the CNC computer? or a local file on the computer you are talking to us from right now?
The instructions are on a disk that cam with the parport. I am not sure why my cd drive doesn't work. Perhaps a well placed explosive will fix things.
don't worry about those instructions
oh, instructions for the parport?
like eric says, they can probably be thrown in the trash... 95% chance they were written for windows anyway
how do I get the pdf file to you guys.
this is a pdf that came with the parport?
yep. Its under the linux installation.
here it is http://filebin.ca/qjpuwg/LinuxInstallationGuide.pdf
btw, I wasn't even sure there was such a thing as filebin - I just guessed and googled, then ctrl-C the link from my browser and ctrl-V it here
"use the internet, luke" ;-)
eric do I need to undo what I did using the instruction ?
judedude: ok, now I understand what you did
Like I said anyone have a gernade.
their example using a400 is because their lspci (fig 2) has a400
your lspci has a different address
you don't have to undo since you didn't affect the actual port
the entire modprobe parport_pc thing is for installing the port as a regular printer port
it would just be rmmod parport_pc anyway
you don't need/want that, you want to use it for EMC2
so you will use our driver, not parport_pc
OK I am a bit fuzzy with the whole Linux driver thing. Do I need to do anything more than try the address listed like 1460.
somewhere in your config files you have a line that looks something like 'loadrt parport cfg="blahblahblah" '
you want to substitute 1460 for blahblahblah
if 1460 doesn't work, try the other addresses that lspci showed you
And where does this loadrt live.
in a hal file that is part of your emc2 configuration
exactly where depends on you
I can use the wizzard to fix ?
did you start with on of our sample configs, and copy it to another directory?
or did you start with stepconf (the wizard)?
Nope created using the wizzard.
did the wizard ask you for a port address?
I've never used it for real, and only played with it a long time ago....
yes it does i changed it to a400 before
ok, then you _should_ be able to run the wizard again and change that address
is there a way to check the port aside from emc
parports are very simple
that is good and bad
good in that simple means easily used for non-standard stuff (otherwise all it could do is print)
but bad because there is no 'intelligence' out there, so nothing that the software can say "hello, are you there?" to
lspci says it works
lspci shows about 5 addresses, I dunno how to figure out the correct one
other than trying it
the wiki page says use the third address for the on-board
but since then, something has changed
eric super cnc sluth
1450 it is
eric where did you find this on the page ?
you mean in your lspci?
the wiki page. isee it on lspci
[00:50:21] <eric_unterhausen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos
1450 only generated 2 errors. limit 0 and limit 2. should hve been all three
how are you testing?
nothing hooked up?
yes i know need to network in the garage
What about the section on the read and write does this need to be done also ?
you're talking about the wizard?
no. I read the wiki page a bit further. Also in the example it shows 0x preceeding the 4 digit address. I didn't use that I think i should.
Well this explains a lot.
should have mentioned that
who was to know that I am so green
Welcome to the green crew - fortunately there are good skippers driving our ship.
Testing using the first address shows the step and direction work.
I have 5v on pin 10, 11, 12 and 13.
that sounds right to me, they are all inputs, correct?
OK I think things are in a position where they can be tested tomorrow. SO eric I don't need to rediredt the read and write
what does the read and write say?
This stuff addf parport.1.read base-thread 1
that should be ok
addf parport.1.write base-thread -1
Very good thanks for all your help !! I'll let you know tomorrow if it works as expected.
the addf lines shouldn't need changedf
does emc do gang tooling?
it seems like tool offsets could do it
is that where there are multiple spindles?
no, gang tooling is a lathe thing
instead of a turret, you have a very long X axis with T slots
and you attach all the tools in a line on the X axis tooling plate
sure, emc can do that
you just specify the appropriate tool offsets
any lathe can, all you need to do is change how you call you toold
instead of T0101, T0202, it's T0101, t0102, t0103
or i guess H words in emc
then the next time you call the machine to move, it'll be using the next tool.
although if you wind up buying a turning center, i'd recommend not using the turret-available offsets (offsets 1-8, or 1-12 or whateveR)
i'm looking pretty hard at that turning center still
i found out my truck won't tow it home, the trailer weighs 3000 lbs + 4500lbs for the center
only rated to tow 5000 lbs
gotta beg borrow or steal a bigger truck i guess
with electric trailer brakes
also t01 m01 is the mill method/emc method for changing tools, any turning center you buy will not use that syntax
not sure how i feel about towing 7500 lbs behind a 4000 lb vehicle :)
live dangerously, i guess
my dad has a new tundra which can supposedly tow 10k, but no electric brake controller
i did talk to a rigger though
see if they will fetch it for me
and a friend that has a diesel duelly with the brake controller, if i can talk him out of his truck for a week
otherwise i may be forced to scale back my plans slightly
or at least find a smaller turning center
but as turning centers go, 5000 lbs is pretty small it seems!
4000-5000 lbs is what i'd expect a 16x40 manual lathe to weigh in at
a good one, anyway
i was just looking at them actually
"tool room" lathe
yeah, ignore that term.
it used to mean something, it doesn't anymore.
with imports, "tool room" means "not rugged enough for production"
it used to mean "higher quality"
i have a 12x36 manual lathe collecting dust
i would like to find a foundry that can do a one off casting for me
without ripping a new one in the price dept
tool room was an actual specification of minimum accuracy
nowdays just get a 10ee or a hlv-h
also good luck with that casting thing
what's a 10ee
the two most accurate manual lathes
monarch 10ee, hardinge hlv-h
they're both 10x20 machines
i saw several hardinge's about that size
one with a collet closer
only 1000 lbs though
the hardinge lathes are very light machines
they're accurate, not big
the monarch machines ARE heavy, though
they don't have the fancy threading thing that the hlv has though
oh if i got one it would get cnc controls for sure
these hardintg'es look like they are missing their carriage though
the DV-59 and DSM-59 don't have carriages
what do they do then?
it was a dv-69
here's a spindle off an old hardinge for $39.00
they're second op lathes, they have stuff that bolts to the bedway and stays put
most have a turret
then there's a lever slide for cutof and chamfering, etc
if you set up a turret lathe/first op to do the front end of a part, you can use the second op machine to finish the stuff on the other end
so just a tailstock and assorted specialty tools then
once you get past 5 parts to about 50-300, depending on what you need, is when they come in handy
i use one to deburr this part i cut out on a mill.
here's a 10EE for 1250
$1299 i mean
i'd be skeptical of a 10ee for $1299.
from 1943 it says :)
yeah, they're all very old machines.
about 10 years older than my dad
i'd be concerend about any 10ee under 3-4k, and any hlv-h under 7-8k
it would also be a waste to put them under cnc control
(obviously in my opinion, anyway)
i'm just not much for spinning hand wheels
[02:02:08] <dareposte> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=21-359-020&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
but i bet as soon as you took out the carriage to make it cnc, you would probably lose a lot of the advantage that the a hardinge has
wow, that machine kinda looks like a wreck
but it's probably just dirty
most of them are
what do you mean by taking out the carriage
add screws and servos
take out the lead screws
yes, that would ruin a lot of the advantage since you'd be putting in far less accurate screws
it's pretty easy to hit .0005 without trying on an HLV-H
i'm wondering if a used import would be a good seed for a casting
there are expensive imports that use a mori seiki pattern, those are good
but they also cost 8000-9000 for a 15/16 x 40/50 machine
seriously the import castings on some of the bigger lathes don't seem too bad
right, on the bigger lathes
i'm thinking a 13x40
i can almost guarantee you that anything under a 16x## has a flimsy casting
in an import, absolutely
i'm not convinced yet
however, it's still a lathe and people do lots of good work on those machines.
go to like, grizzly, and look at the size difference between a 14x40 and a 16x40
for one, the spindle centerline to bed distance is higher than the width of the bed
on the 14"
i see what you mean there
the weight difference is enormous
2000-2500 lbs vs. 4000-6000
and the spindle in a 16" lathe is gigantic - it'll be like a D-6, versus a D-3 or D-4
the 16" lathes use a pattern originally designed by mori seiki, a particular manual lathe which is one of the best and most accurate larger, late model manual lathes
i need to find some good educational materials on spindle sizing
the A vs D series
[02:10:23] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=80-372-012&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
obviously the quality of an import will depend on the spit and polishj applied
but the base casting and all the components are very rigid on the 16"
i'd like a 10ee =(
dareposte: what do you want to know about them
just get a feel for them
understand the differences, because apparently they are important
toastydeath: I wish I had room for a 10EE
A is a bolt on, D is camlock
they're almost identical otherwise
so D is better?
I live close to HGR, I've seen literally 10 or more come and go at prices I could afford
D is quicker to change, A is more rigid
A is found on production machines, D is found on toolroom/engine lathes
so the spindle i'm familiar with is a threaded nose
they're both very similarly dimensioned, with the same short taper
it takes a back plate, and the chuck goes on the back plate
the A and D series sound like they don't need a back plate
it depends on the chuck.
just direct bolt/cam lock on
some chucks are intergally A or D taper, others are blank backs and you can fit either one.
so what does the 4/6/1-4 type numbers stand for
like a D1-4
i'm pretty sure i've seen that spec'd before
D1 refers to the camlock pattern, 4 is the size
D means a camlock, 1st pattern, size 4
is the size in inches?
or just an arbitrary size based on teh number of marbles that would fit in it if it was hollow or something
it's roughly four inches, but it's not exact - you have to look at the spindle nose charts.
I don't think there's a D2 spindle, if there is it's fairly rare
A1/A2 is when you have to watch out, A2 chucks will bolt on to an A1 spindle, but A1 chucks will not bolt to an A2 spindle
confusing, i just need to go to a machinery dealer and browse all day some time
there's a list out there somewhere, maybe on lathes.co.uk
it has all the dimensions for L, A, and D series tapers
so maybe an import casting from a 16x40 would be okay?
yeah, if it looks monsterous, with three levers in a row on the headstock.
and has the D-6 spindle
the spindle taper really is the quick way to tell how big an import lathe is.
D-6, D-8, you are probably looking at a very solid machine at the least.
[02:18:14] <dareposte> http://grizzly.com/products/16-x-40-3-Phase-Gunsmith-Metal-Lathe/G0509G
no, not that one.
only a D1-6 spindle
[02:19:16] <toastydeath> http://www.grizzly.com/products/16-x-60-3-Phase-Metal-Lathe/G0494
you caught me totally off guard with that "gunsmith" lathe, i haven't seen that import model before
so i guess the spindle isn't such a good indicator as i thought it was
[02:20:56] <toastydeath> http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/18-x-60-Precision-Machine-Shop-Lathe/G5962
that 16x60 is one i'd feel pretty good about buying
7.5 hp, 11 3/4" bed width to a 8" spindle/bed CL
good speed range, too
although it doesn't look like it comes with anything, so i'd probably go for the other one that comes with a ton of stuff
and is cheaper, to boot
"freight cost includes a $7.50 fuel surcharge" lol
hey its actually free shipping though
its a D1-8 spindle?
see i really don't need all that gearing and crap though
i wonder if I could just get a bare casting brought in
if i did something like that I'd put an ac servo on the spindle, and strip the rest out for screws and servos
or a machined casting
with the ways and carriage on it
you need to look around for an old cnc lathe
with no control.
is really what you're looking for.
with a big tool changer
they made, those, you know, and they are on ebay
just have to look through all the "lathe" listings =/
maybe an old slant bed
[02:35:03] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=05-599-001&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
okuma, leblond, and mazak all made flat bed lathes with toolchangers
[02:35:08] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=20-933-010&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
back in like the 60's
[02:35:23] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=80-287-001&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
[02:35:29] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=80-400-002&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
jmkasunich to the rescue
um 15000 lbs lol
that first one
i actually looked at it
2nd one is 13k lbs
interesting, they are sorted by price, weight seems to go the other way
last one is 11K
yeah the bigger they get the less someone wants them
for the current market at least
jmkasunich: have you ever seen a sandblasting cabinet there?
eric_unterhausen: never looked
there is so much stuff.....
yeah they had a big blasting cabinet there, looked like a gigantic one
and a saw i wanted too
dareposte: you were there? or just looking at the website?
i'm going up there on tuesday/wednesday though
with a 3000lb trailer
6 hour drive from here
dareposte: what did they call it on the website?
bead blasting i think
dareposte: where are you coming from?
you know they are open on saturdays now, right?
no i didn't
only the third saturday of the month i thought
sandblasting sand is way overpriced
every saturday in 2009
the best sand i've found for that is the kiddy play sand, fine mesh
8 am to 1pm
if you decide to come on a sat, let me know
I mean at HGR
that muratech is up there i'm going to look at
i'm concerned about the cylinder ways though
i'm going to print the pictures and take them to work tomorrow and see if any of the powertrain guys know its history
i determined it is an old toyota production machine, and came out of my facility
scrapped in november 2008
"scrapped" to the auction that is
jmkasunich: I may delay my trip to saturday then
I have the problem of finding a vehicle to tow the trailer I found, and a piece of machine on it
only problem is the 1pm closing time
my sister lives in columbus
you'd have to get up very very early
its about half way i think
maybe go up and stay at her house on friday night, and get up there early on saturday
how about this one?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370167397899
two turrets, too
do it if you can
okuma, good brand
that is a big big machine
There will be a loading fee of $750 to load onto buyers furnished truck.
yeah, so that brings the total up to .. um... $1000
no seriously i'll throw $1000 at it see if i win
I hate fresh paint
i might crap my pants if i did though
This machine powers up sometimes but then shuts itself off after a few seconds. The amount of time the machine stays on varies from time to time. Machine was bought at an auction and painted by previous owner. Machine is sold as is, where is. No exceptions!!
fresh paint covers up problems
hahah you probably don't want to buy a machine with any problems
you want to buy a machine with control problems
that's what this one sounds like it has
you're ripping the control out
well i could
or fix it
get a lowball price because the control is broken, then replace it with emc
does emc support dual turret lathes?
i.e. all the synch codes
but it would run at least one
mirror turning, synch codes
you could run both, you'd just be missing some stuff
would it actually run both?
i'm pretty sure - doesn't emc have 9 axes controllable
that machine looks like it's a bit shorter than the other one i was looking at
that's only a four axis machine
you could make one xz and one uw, but you'd get coordinated motion which isn't really what you want
so i could be drilling and turning at the same time
you need synch codes to have both turrets running at the same time
yeah speed would be off i guess
you could 'simply' run two emcs on two computers
you'd be able to run one, then the other
cradek: that still requires synch codes
you could hook some IO between them to coordinate
which may be something simple to implement
ladder would do it
a suitably creative person could make it work - but I can't imagine programming it
interlocks are no big deal
programming dual turret lathes works just like cradek said, actually
maybe in emc they are, but if you can get joint data and tool offsets into classic ladder it should be easy enough
there are two motion controllers accessable from the same console
and there's a series of M codes (m300, 301, 302, etc) that work as stops
it would be neat if you could run both emcs on the same computer (like to different mesa cards)
but I don't think that's currently possible
so whenever one control hits the m300, it waits for the other one to also hit the m300
then they both take off again
like m00, except the controls are the ones triggering the move again
also one control runs a G code that reverses the coordinate system, like mirroring on the mill, to make programming easier
I have several 'wait for hal pin to go true and then continue' interfaces from ladder on my lathe - it's not hard
i'm more worried about actually winning it at this point
otherwise, to turn a 2" diameter, one has to turn at 2" and the other at -2"
why would you need to do mirror turning anyway
so you can command both to turn 2"
seems like twice as much chance for error
no, it means half the chance
i could see having one rough and one finish
since both turrets run the same bit of code.
like right behind each other
it's also more accurate, because the forces are balanced and the part doesn't deflect
helpful on skinny parts or for very accurate diameters
the feed rate can be twice as high
at 9500 lbs, with a 3000 lbs trailer, i would for sure need a big truck to tow it home
ahh that does make sense then
for thin parts
a dodge ram 2500 could tow it home I think
does your trailer have brakes?
but my truck doesn't have a hookup for it
i'm borrowing a trailer from a machinery mover
its a welded machinery trailer
so i need to find a truck to tow the trailer now
you're borrowing a truck with brake hookups too I hope :-)
my vehicle weighs only 4000 lbs fully loaded :) yeah i'm borrowing a truck
just havent' figured out whose yet
this one is in missouri
i bid $1k on it
at that price i could take it and sell it to the steel scrap yard and just about break even :)
looks like a fanuc controller on it
we'll see in about 18 hours I guess if I need to start hunting a bigger truck
dareposte: do you own a shop (a business), or are you a hobbyist with a very large garage? ;-)
hobbyist with not large enough garage
we'll get some entertainment from the photos of him disassembling the garage door
and cutting some of the garage wall face away
you know what works really really well for polishing stainless steel parts?
garage wall fragments?
a vibratory polisher, 5lb of rice, and some turtlewax chrome polish
garage wall is a close second
dareposte: do you own a shop (a business), or are you a hobbyist with a very large garage? ;-)
we got the x/y on our laser engraver moving under control of emc :)
i actually live in an apartment
but you are looking at multi-thousand pound lathes?
i own a house in lexington, but its rented out until april
i worked in japan for a few months and rented it out on a year lease
so the plan is to get the multi thousand pound machine, boot the tenant, and move back in there
my 9x20 is up here with me
i run jobs on it
small lots, usually no more than 50 or so
"hobbyist for money" sort of
maybe aspiring business owner
I sometimes do the same (not aspiring owner tho, want to keep the day job)
bigger stuff i have contracted out to some of my acquaintences with real machines
if i get it
my lathe is working on a paying job right now
way to go
were you the one working on the test jig?
[04:20:27] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/cim-boring-guide-rod-holes-2793.jpg
yeah that is impressive
i am seriously envious
its doing the last hole now
i only make fittings, fasteners, adapters, etc
envoius of a shoptask?
of your ability to turn that piece
no matter what machine
i think i actually have some model of that machine
in storage now
did it come with a big weird milling head too?
maybe like a 9x36" lathe with a milling head
another part of the jig: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/worm02.jpg
pretty lightweight, maybe 1000 lbs
wow nice gears
nicea ll around
[04:23:20] <jmkasunich> http://www.shoptask.com/17%2020%20GOLD%20ON%20BENCH.jpg
did you make that whole thing on the lathe?
yeah mine was very very similar to that, but bed is a lot longer
cut the gear teeth on my van norman mill
the milling head was so bad i took it off and scrapped it out
milling is very mediocre
yours looks much sturdier than mine
but overall the design is almost carbon copy
although now that its CNC'ed I'm getting a bit more respect for it
the key is high speed - it can't take heavy cuts, but it can do nice feeds if you spin a carbide cutter pretty quick
[04:25:15] <dareposte> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44142
worm gear gashing: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/worm07.jpg
and hobbing: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/worm09.jpg
thats a nice setup
i like it
i only have a spin indexer
I really like the van norman
I just wish it didn't have to live in the garage
no heat, rust problems in the spring
i found that CLP is good for that
used to use it on my guns, but it works great for chucks and tooling too
another job I did for a friend: http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/manifolds-2008-04-15.html
was that from a forging or something?
rumor has it he is doing another 48 pieces
i've done a bit of aluminum and zinc casting on my porch, but it was a bit dangerous for a wood deck
he had the castings done at a foundry
it was also very expensive - I was shocked at what he paid for tooling
the nice thing about learning to cast is... if you screw it up just remelt it
not at all like machining is
i built a little furnace for aluminum, fitted it with a PID controller, and melted down a bunch of scrap alloy wheels
cast both the mounts for my x-axis screws using it
turned out medium okay
i found a good place to get the right stuff to make foundry sand right here in town
turns out they are the major dealer for the region, go figure
you're gonna be making a huge jump from 3-in-1 and 9x20 lathe to a 2 ton machine
yeah i know
actually 5 ton
I think I'd be scared
not scared, slightly aroused maybe
where are you going to put it? garage?
do you have heat?
if i get one before april it will go in a friends barn
and then move it later?
yeah in april
i don't have a heated garage
do you realize how much of a "project" it is to move a machine that size?
i know enough to get people who know
i am pretty good friends with some machinery riggers
with a big-ass forklift
ah, that makes a world of difference
how much power do you have in your garage? do you have three-phase?
no three phase
i have a standard house feed
what, 200 amp i think
some of the machines you are looking at have 7.5HP spindle motors
that is about 30A at 240V just for the spindle
and the machine will certainly be wired for three phase
through a phase converter
maybe 80% efficient
i figured a 50A breaker would be able to run it
you certainly think big
its not beyond the realm of residential power... maybe pushes the limits a bit
power, weight, the whole thing
how cold does it get down there?
unheated garage will be a problem in winter
yeah it will have to be heated
no biggie though
all it takes is money and time, right?
the goal is to not have it at the house for too long though
in 1-2 years the plan is to have product development done, and move to a real facility for production
oh, you have a specific product you want to make? I thought you were just gonna be a job-shop
i have a specific product i want to make
maybe do some contract work to fund product development and testing
so that determines the size of the machine, etc
the end goal is definitely not going to be as a job shop, there are tons of people better at that than I am
I guess it also explains why lathe and not mill (most shops start with a mill) but if your product is round....
my degree is in mechanical engineering, so i know very little about machining
its a big giant learning experience
but i think in polar coordinates, which is nice sometimes
fun isn't it
yeah it's a blast
learning what can be done, and how to do it
I'm an electrical engineer, but my dad was a machinist for 40+ years so I was exposed at a young age
my dad was a doctor, so he had nothing to do with metalworking
although i did get free stitches all the time, so it was nice
nice would be not needing stitches all the time
i never thought of it that way
hmm, this is discomforting - hole is roughed out, ready for final pass to bring it to size - but it is 0.0025 bigger than the last one was at this point
have you been measuring tool deflection to this point?
tool wear would make it smaller
the last one and this one were cut using exactly the same path, so deflection should be constant
also, the last few cuts are fairly light (0.010 on the diameter, 0.005 radius)
built up edge?
what are you turning?
didn't see one, but that is a possibility
yeah maybe a possibility
touch it with a stone maybe?
i get built-up edge really bad on my tools turning 6061
no BUE under a 10x loupe
is the machine warm
I've been using a squirt of WD-40 between passes to keep the chips from sticking and avoid BUE
we have one machine that grows .005
toastydeath: not really
as it warms up
I think I'll adjust the final pass based on what I measured
rather be under than over
I could do the last pass in two steps, and measure again between, but that doesn't thrill me either
target is 1.0015 +/- 0.0005 ish
whats the ID
program roughs to 0.960, then I do one pass at 0.980, one at 0.990, then stop and measure, then the final pass
my 0.990 is 0.9925
BREAK OUT THE DIAMOND TOOLING
i'd say go for it
if your next pass is the same size
i mean same depth of cut
last two passes were 0.020 and 0.010 (on the diameter)
next one is 0.0115 (close enough to 0.010 IMO)
if I correct for the oversize I have right now, next pass will be 0.01025
that's what i'd do
same feed and everything?
well, we'll know in a few minutes
jmkasunich: your website is nice
those castings look like crap though for coming from a foundry
the parting line is like a parting ridge
yeah, they aren't pretty
if you put those in a vibratory tumbler with ceramic chips, it would take all that flash off
before machining, right?
aluminum maybe not so good after
i don't debur any of my parts
just throw them in my tumbler with ceramics
I don't have such a thing, nor does my buddy, but I'll mention it to him, maybe he knows someone
little triangle things
the find and eat sharp edges
vibratory tumblers are very nice to have
i just have a little 5 lb one i got for polishing my rifle brass, but soon learned that by filling it with other media it could do lots of fun things
paid $80 for it or so
corn cobs are good for cleaning brass or oil off parts
ceramic triangles will deburr steel or aluminum parts
thats a tabletop size thing isn't it?
5 lb hoper
* jmkasunich is very limited for space
those castings are probably too big to fit in mine
but the parts i make are usually small
and they fit
is that why you are getting a huge lathe ;-)
the huge lathe is for huge parts
small lathe for small parts
hmm, the Van Norman 16S at HGR is sold
thats probably a good thing - if it stayed there much longer it might have wound up in my garage
yah good thing
i have some rong-fu knockoff mill
nothing like one of those, but it will make brackets and mounting plates
heh, hit my 1.0015 right on the nose
back it off a half thou and run it again, i bet it comes out right on
maybe a full thou if your boring bar is smallish
oh yeah you were shooting for 1.0015
i love that feeling
[05:12:03] <dareposte> http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/frankford_casetumbler.pdf
there's my case tumbler I use
in case you ever feel the need to clean, polish, or deburr small parts in it
i'll post a pic of the parts once they come out, before and after
gotta run out to the garage to press bushings into these parts - then time to walk dog and get some sleep
sys2 is now known as MrSunshine
can i find a list of the default pins for emc somewhere?
[07:03:29] <JymmmEMC> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_emc2hal.html
anybody know what a 5020L control is? who makes it?
[07:44:09] <JymmmEMC> http://mesanet.com
[07:45:29] <JymmmEMC> http://mesanet.com/parallelcardinfo.html
those mesa cards are cool but i dont' think that's what i'm looking at here
its on an okuma
i assume some commercial controller
OSP ring any bells?
maybe okuma's own control
okuma does produce their own controls
with their own gcode
that isn't gcode
the control doesn't use gcode.
is what i'm saying, if it's an okuma.
just like mazatrol doesn't use gcode, but some mazatrol specific shenanigan
it looks like gcode with letters and numbers, but if you walk up to it and try to program it, you'll drive the stupid thing into the chuck
so if i win it, then i should make it run on emc
that depends on if the control is functional or not
if the control is running, i'd use the okuma control
the control's not running
they're supposed to be really trick dealies, i've always wanted to use one
oh, then yeah, emc.
it powers on then shuts down
so i'd have to fix it or fit a new one
[07:58:16] <dareposte> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&item=370167397899
i'd call okuma and see if they'd help me, and i'd spend a few bucks fixing it
if it was expensive to fix, i'd go with emc.
that's sort of the plan
first win it, then strip that nasty paint off and make it right
while i am fixing the controller
see what's hidden under the fresh paint, and fix it too
but yeah, esp. since it's a dual turret machine, do your best to fix the control (within reason)
i would be fine just parking a turret
or taking it off
* toastydeath shrug
but yeah it would be nice to have them both work
i'm not sure i understand all the benefit of it yet
but it would be nice if the parts were interchangeable for spares
the benifits of a second turret?
i mean besides the obvious extra 8 tools
2x the tool capacity and reduced cycle time
and higher accuracy on longer parts
(using balanced turning
yeah that all makes sense
apparently they can't operate on separate parts of the piece
like one turning a taper, the other making a shoulder
oh, they're not a true dual turret machine
that's a bummer
then really what you're looking at is just 2x tool capacity.
i'm not sure about that though, are you
about the mirror vs. separate ops
i haven't found a manual for it yet
i dunno, you're the one who told me they can't do seperate ops
i was going off that
that's the way I understand it
this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8fcGJ9tpuE
shows both turrets moving individually
that's what i would expect in a more modern cnc
compared to say, a 1960's machine.
since the ebay thing lists two different X axis and Z axis travels
that would lead me to believe the turrets are independant, and can do independant ops
yeah I saw that too, not sure they have a clue though
what leads you to say that
just get that feeling talking to the guy
e-mailed him about a couple of things
well you'd have to look at it
what makes you think they're joined
i'll look at it when they load it on the truck
someone else said that they would do mirror ops
who was it, i lost my chat transcripts
yeah i'm not sure
if i win it then i guess i'll figure it out
also it was said that emc could control it, just as another axis
so if the controller is crapped out beyond reasonable repair, then that would be the next strategy
the issue is not that emc can't control it
or pick the one that seems to be in best shape and turn the other off
it's how it controls it
but yeah, you'll be fine either way i suppose
it's a lathe, and the hardware works, so worst case you just wind up with one turret.
not so sure all the hardware works though
not even sure that all the hardware is *there*
thats what i mean when i say these guys don't really have a clue
i wanted to know what servo controllers it had in it, or if it still had them in it
depending how it runs up in the last few hours it might wind up being a steal
it would strike me as odd for that machine to be missing any parts.
it came from auction, someone got it, painted it, and re-sold it
and now this guy has it on ebay for a few ben's
it wouldn't strike me as too odd for much of anything with it
but it looks like the ways, the screws, the spindle, and the castings are all there, so that's what I bid on
with a 7.5kw spindle motor for sure
what's that about 10 hp
no, you're right
i went the wrong direction
hope its an ac servo on the spindle
i'd imagine it probably is
i'm trying to figure out what size breaker it would need
you probably have another 5 hp in servos
i'd guess 12 kw or so
oh uh, just so you know, you are going to have trouble running this on anything but a vfd
the waveform from an RPC is too dirty and causes problems with the servo and spindle drivers
well that's a big honkin' vfd
a 15hp rotary isn't so bad
how do you know about this problem?
it's well documented by people who have tried to run CNCs at home
practicalmachinist occasionaly has a thread about the subject
i may wind up putting it out in a shop somewhere then, where they have 3 phase
they want the voltages and phase seperation to all be very close in tolerance to one another
otherwise the machine alarms out all the time
[08:21:13] <dareposte> http://cgi.ebay.com/20-HP,-VFD,-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-AC-MOTOR-SPEED-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ140305672503QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090307?IMSfp=TL090307185017r4663
[08:21:15] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/YASKAWA-15-HP-VFD-AC-DRIVE-CIMR-E7U47P5-480-VOLT-13-KVA_W0QQitemZ200276999626QQcmdZViewItem
does that mean it puts out 480, or it takes in 480
both it says
you'll want to run a RPC to one of those boxes
damn that sucks
all the inefficiencies of an rpc, plus the cost of a vfd
well, you can use a cheap RPC
if you give it three phase input
otherwise you need a vfd that can take one phase and make it three, and that is more money.
i'd rather do that to keep the power draw more reasonable
if i could
[08:24:05] <dareposte> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Variable+Torque+VFD/L300P-150LFU2.html
you think all the servos need 480?
depends on what the machine is wired for.
probably not 480.
but make sure you verify that the vfd you buy can take single phase, because all the ones you've sent me want 3 phase input
this one takes 240 single in, puts 240 three phase out
[08:25:35] <dareposte> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/PC1-150.html?osCsid=b34b68a15841541f918a77c57e833501
yeah that's the one.
not too bad on the price
squeeze it in on a 50A breaker too
assuming it would power the beast
might shut down all the digital tv reception in the neighborhood :D
it would certainly dim the lights a bit
i would guess it's probably fairly rare to have all the motors pulling full load at the same time
it's rare to even have one motor pulling full load
spindle is the big one i guess
i'm making medium sized parts, nothing that big
especially in that size machine, i'd be shocked if you had any sustained draw above 25%
unless you specifically look to really hammer material off
it would be nice to take more than a 0.3mm pass for a change :)
yeah, that's not a problem
hey it draws the same power as a hot-tub does!
my neighbors have a hot tub, so i should be able to have one of these things
probably weighs about the same as a loaded hot tub too
yep it does, a hot tub weighs 10000 lbs
full of water
so when the neighborhood association complains i have my defense
i'll have my attorney put it in writing and formalize the argument
its probably quieter than that hot tub full of screaming kids too
sometimes it'll get loud.
hope not too often
speed down, feed up
how fast is that spindle?
i don't have the ebay open anymore
then you need to start getting used to going the other direction
i think it was 5500 or 6000
if you have headroom, like a 6k rpm lathe spindle turning at 2k, you can usually eliminate chatter by going the other direction just as quickly
don't think the sheet metal would contain it?
i thought you meant running away when i heard that sound
before it threw the part at me
standing to one side usually works just as well
plus the doors, in my experience, are really good at stopping parts
so you're saying speed up, and slow the feed down?
never heard that before
because it doesn't make sense on manual lathes.
chatter is a self-excited vibration, with the cut depth acting as the gain, and the feed rate acting as a damper
the spindle rpm and flute configuration obviously varies the frequency
in many instances of chatter, by going faster, you get over a hump of frequencies where the gain (cut depth) must be very shallow because of a lack of dynamic rigidity at that frequency
those spikes of resonance in the frame occur in harmonics
so just get out of the harmonic resonance and it shoudl stop
speed up, slow down, damp more
yeah, unless the whole thing is just too flimsy
which does happen with long workpieces - then you just have to go slow.
but if you're turning and it looks pretty rigid, and it's just chattering, then you should go faster.
how much do you think that okuma would take off the radius on a pass
depends on the starting radius
maybe a 2" 1018
i.e. doing some envelope math?
i was wondering where on earth you would look that up
i do seem to recall something in machinery handbook about spindle hp, speed, feed, and depth of cut
at the time it was not important but now it might be interesting reading
it's a good thing to do
it looks like you'd be able to do 8" per minute at .100 DOC
(radial depth of cut)
at two inches
or rather, from two inches starting diameter
seems a little slow on the feed doesn't it?
not for 1018?
no i did the math wrong
that's 200 mm/min
.1 off the radius isn't too bad
about 10x more than i get to take right now
so at 500 SFM, that comes out to a feed rate of .008"/rev and an RPM of 955
and obviously that's for an 8" length of material
deeper cut, faster feed rate for shorter parts.
i'm getting excited already
ebay even sent me a $2 off coupon
must be a sign
they probably know better than to send me a 10% off one
i gotta get a couple hours sleep
this time change has me all out of wack
its only supposed to be 3am right now
anyone have a link for sharpening a hand scraper?
hand scraper for metal?
yes, the kind with a carbide blade
the only thing I can find is on wood scrapers
I've done it on a kool carb lapper before- hold it at about 5 to 7 degrees and make a very large arc on the face
what is a kool carb lapper?
slow moving lapping wheel
that might be the wrong name
hmmm don't have one of those...
[14:02:07] <BJT-Work> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIvxXMDeCIc
the curve radius seems small there
the end radius?
see him rock vertically when grinding
a new scraper from Eclipse is of a much greater radius
near straight but not quite
probably also depends on use
good morning all. anyone awake out there know about high voltage wire????
I need to put some load resistors on a drive and the bus is about 95v DC. I'm chicken of regular 600v wire. any suggestions?
that's 950v DC
95v is not very high
that's a big difference
950 is pretty high
ah, the pros from dover are here!!! hurray!
don't look at me
you're not in DOver ;)
(neither am I)
950v will need thicker insulation
Roguish, what kind of current are you talking about?
[14:35:24] <Roguish> http://cgi.ebay.com/3m-20KV-white-High-Voltage-Wire-Cable-Stranded-tesla-HV_W0QQitemZ150326785225QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Connectors_Switches_Wire?hash=item150326785225&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
you probably don't need 20kV wire. something 3k or higher should be fine
I don't really know the current. It's regen power from a 10HP, 480v drive
so 950V includes the regen voltage bump?
yeah, i believe so.
Anything rated 450v should be able to handle spikes up to 750v If I remember correctly, let me try to find some specs
what resistor value will you be using?
(that will tell the current rating)
good morning machinists
so 20A peak
bs6007 has that 450/750 thing
18g recommended wire size, I want something like 16 or even14g.
Roguish: does it need to flex or can it be solid core?
roguish: try something that conforms to IEC 60502 for insulation
roguish: IEC 60228 for the copper strands
Roguish: should be rated to 1kV
[14:43:48] <SWPadnos> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=W2716B-100-ND
unless you want it in a different color :)
looks great. thanks.
henry ford color too!!
there are many others, but I limited my search to what was in stock only
they have thicker gauges if you want to special-order
i'd founc some earlier, but way more expensive.
thanks again. off to the day j o b.
Hello - how is the laser coming?
we got the steppers moving
[15:52:31] <Optic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H96ZtMXXBAo
it's still far from ideal, but the motor drivers work
and emc can control it
we're going to have to figure out how to do constant speed
and what the right numbers are
emc did a wonderful amount of Just Working once we got close to the right timing values for stepping
Optic: I think that's where the PPI might come into play.
Optic: It's been a while, so I don't remember the details
do you have a link I could read about it?
Optic: Sorry no, closest thing it that GCC sample page, but you can't dl the Corel file w/o being a member
which wuldn't help too much either.
Optic: Most places, including China imported lasers keep that private. I've even seen dongles being used.
Optic: What I do recall is that constant laser is only used for cutting, not engaving
we'll have to play with it a bit
and that's not always true, becasue when I inspect the samples I had created, I can see the pulse marks on cuts.
i imagine if the system slows down it will make bigger lines
Sure, makes sense.
would G64 be the right thing?
I don't know g-code like the other guys here.
apparently that is constant velocity mode
Assuming vector here... But when it gets to a segment, it's constant speed during the whole segment isn't it?
i think so
especially once everything is calibrated
but emc does accelleration and decelleration
based upon settings iirc
You know PS at all?
i would imagine the original controller could have done things like overshoot the movement on both ends and turn the laser on for only part of the move
I know of it, i've never done any coding in it
ah, well you could probably do the same thing in raw g-code too
gcode is as "easy" as ps
hardware first, software second :)
gcode seems pretty stright ahead
Get some corigated card board scraps, then create a crap load of 1" squares in gcode, changeing the speed, velocity, etc cut and engrave a happy face on all of them and start seeing what the results look like
yeah, that's a good idea
cut out the swuares and examine the cut edges
I think you need to look at emulating PPI somehow, I say that as every laser engraver has this feature
what does it stand for again?
make you can emulate it using spinde speed as PPI (Pulses Per Inch)
emc can do feed per spindle revolution
It's basically changeing the laser from 100% duty cycle, to 90%, 75%, etc
(so to speak)
well we can pulse the laser very quickly
Yes, I know =)
we could do a pulse per step
But use EMC's PWM control ability to adjust the PPI
400 PPI is not uncommon, but I'll let you do the math =)
i will definately look into it
Neither is 1200 PPI
Mind you 1200 PPI would take longer
but better reolution in the final product
does EMC's pwm work on the parallel port?
think of it as a DOT-MATRIX printer if you will
Yes, as spindle control
So as I see it you want: CUT = 100% On, Off, and PPI from x to y range
that makes sense
Air-assist could be coolant
if you decide to add that feature
this device isn't designed at all for cutting
we'd need to make a new bed, some sort material retention, etc
Eh, anything honeycomb and black will do
MUST be black though
So the laser doens't bounce back at the material
so nobody gets blinded by reflections
well, the device is enclosed and the lens has a short focal length
Optic: It WILL spark if it hits reflective material
Optic: that doens't matter
but having a non-reflective-to-ir surface would be good :)
besides, you can buy cutting bed material off ebay
not always cheap
maybe $150 or so for the size you have
but you dont have to use the whole table either
I think this is bullshit, but... http://cgi.ebay.com/Laser-Links-Vector-Cutting-Table-Engraver-Engraving_W0QQitemZ150317553705QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0
It's not black, and it's frickin chainmail
there are a lot of things that absorb IR
that aren't black
It's not about absorbing IR, it's also about not ruinng the backside of the material you are workign with, thus air assist
[16:28:32] <JymmmEMC> http://jindiaokj.diytrade.com/sdp/533200/4/pd-2798956/2826349-0.html#normal_img
THAT's te honeycomb I was talking about, but black is still better, though it does wear off with use.
It's very lightweight aluminum, so maybe you can find an alternative. I have seen some use the 1/2" grid florencent light covers that are chrome plated, but they also caught on fire too and damaged the laser
so use ALL metal, not plated plastics =)
a friend pointed me to a blog where the author used hacksaw blades quite nicely
[16:32:39] <Optic> http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/table.html
missed it by $100