I am using a hobbyCNC board and I receive an error when I configured ny limit switches as N.C per the getting started guide v2.2. I receive an error when I start EMC. Am I connecting the home and limit wrong ?
sometimes programmers need to back away from the keyboard and keep their "neat" features to themselves
there is some button you can press by mistake that makes firefox bigger than the screen
judedude: can you share the error message with us?
I did not write it down but I believe it said Error: Home 0 node. This goes away if I select invert on the configuration menu.
I ment to say unselect the invert box.
oops - sorry
maybe your limit switches are normally open?
I check them with a meter and they tested normally closed. I also checked the pin #10 to grnd and there is not mush voltage there 24mv.
when homed or when not homed?
not homed. The EMC does not recognize the switch when I select home. So not homed.
The pins are pulled up with a 10K resistor on the board but that shouldn't affect it.
How do I know if the parallel port is working correctly ? Is there a quick way to test it ?
I am not sure what the problem is since you don't have the error message, but the solution is the same: troubleshoot. run halmeter, select the axis's home switch pin, and poke the switch
if it doesn't change from FALSE to TRUE when you poke the switch, it won't home right
if it's inverted, change the invert flag
if it doesn't change at all, fix your wiring/pullups
I remember looking at that and it said false. SO if I poke it and it doesnt change the parallel port is dead ?
or your wiring is wrong, or you picked the wrong pin, or your pullups aren't right, etc etc
I am sure the wiring is correct and I did choose the correct pin. In fact I switched pins and none seem to work.
any interest in converting hal_input params to pins? http://filebin.ca/sguybq/diff.hal_input.py
dgarr: if you need that I'll happily commit it for you (but after the 2.3 branch)
i thought it would be consistent with other conversions params to pins. it would be considered new functionality or insufficiently tested for 2.3?
it is consistent - but it's not a bugfix and we're in bugfix-only mode
we've busted several components by changing params to pins (but they were in C - I'm sure this is safer)
ok -- after 2.3 would be fine with me
ok, don't let me forget
i'll try to remember. i'm still trying to find ways to make joypad work with hal_input in pre2.3 (it worked with hal-input-1.13)
Hi & *ping*
I´m new to EMC² and run a small desktop mill with stepper motors. My question may be odd, but i´ve read about the hostmot interface and asking myself if the hostmot is able to be some kind of configurable buffer which takes a series of commands and executes them itself, without the need for an RT-API.
Mesa Electronics does have an FPGA configuration that includes a soft processor (they call it softDMC), and you may be able to make a buffer for that
i read something about a watchdog setup which may lead to have it executing the next 5 steps or so
but the hostmot2 specifically uses the host for motion (hence host-mot)
the watchdog trips if EMC2 stops updating the card for a long time (I don't know how long that is)
yeah i´ve read about this option
there have been cases where the PC has crashed, but the realtime kernel kept executing G-code
you couldn't stop it, but it worked great :)
hehe... thats a statement :-)
I've seen something similar when testing a Mesa card for other purposes. the latency is quite a bit better with the kernel crashed than with it running normally
the end-switches and emergency stops are handled by EMC² (given they are not hardwired)
(crashed hard enough that it didn't respond to pings)
you should never say "emergency" unless the switches are hard-wired
the PC was crashed badly, so badly that it wouldn't respond to a ping from another machine
JMK put on a demo with a encoder where linux crashed
but the RT system was still running, outputting square waves I could see on my scope
ok... wrong wording. but it won´t move without proper signal from these switches
(handled in RT-kernel?)
ok, if the switches prevent motion external to the PC, then I'm happy calling them "emergency" stop switches :)
of course... and they need to be NO
ok, back to the buffer thing.. chances are bad i get to FPGA development very soon, so i wonder how the card itself is doing a ramping of the steppers
when it needs the watchdog to execute any steps
or did i get something wrong with the hostmot kind of controlling the steppers
EMC does all the calculating. the mesa card only provides a high speed step generator and encoder counter (and PWM and more I/O)
if emc crashes such that it no longer updates the step frequency registers and the watchdog, then the Mesa card will stop generating steps some time later - like a few milliseconds
ok, the latency itself, thats understandable
sure. you have to wait a while before you can tell that the PC is "too late"
there are no plans in getting the Mesa to do some internal calculation? or is it outside of the scope of EMC?
emc doesn't work that way
there are no plans I know of, and it's not really the way EMC is designed
it´s not a problem, i just try to understand if i can get some improvement for speed or host load
vs. the parallel interface solution
get a better computer?
controlling the mill by e.g. usb is also a nice advance
the hardware here is not a problem... i try to understand if i can seperate the mill (a bit) from the PC.
the PCI Mesa cards are a significant advantage over a parallel port
if the PC CPU is relieved of the very high speed step generation/PWM generation, and encoder counting, then you can use almost any computer made in the last 10 years to run EMC
is a GUI/running X a must for EMC?
you only need a 1ms realtime thread, which is very easy on anything even approaching modern hardware
it's not a must, but it makes some things a lot easier
there are the diagnostic programs like halmeter and halscope, which only run in X
also, the text mode user interfaces aren't as well maintained as the GUI ones (like AXIS)
of course... just playing a bit with ideas... like getting EMC to run on hardware without screen and keyboard...
controlled over network or so
sure, that's easy :)
you can theoretically have a headless PC with no X, but it's not trivial to figure out exactly which libraries are required to run an X client program
VNC is one option
or remote X, or an NML-connected UI, or emcrsh
EMC eas designed from the beginning with networking in mind
yeah... that was my intention
one of the first incarnations used a VME backplane with separate computers for IO and motion control, so they had to be able to talk to each other "remotely"
hmm... i saw it is quite simple to add new switches and actuators to the EMC functionality, is this still possible with the Mesa-Setup?
.. like using it´s GPIOs?
or does it require the FPGA program to be modified?
if you don't need the speed of the FPGA, you can use the GPIO any way you want in software
so you can do tool changers and that kind of thing using GPIO
cool! (ok, oversized for what i am using right now... but interesting, for suction or such)
but what do you mean with "if you don´t need the speed of the FPGA"? It runs slower once you i would use GPIO or that the FPGA load will increase?
i can´t imagine the load of three steppers will outperform the 50MHz clock
it's highly unlikely
i think i will order one of those boards.. not only for milling, let´s see what nice stuff i can do with it and maybe i get to FPGA-programming then.
they're very nice boards to grow into :)
I did a project where I used a 5i22 and some custom HAL components to make a power supply controller
of course... and they are quite affordable... with the Euro-Dollar conversion
plus some custom analog boards to plug into it
yeah, they are. even in dollars, they're in the same price range as hobby-class stuff
I've got to run. have fun experimenting :)
and thanks for letting me bug you :-)
anybody have a suggestion for what style of indexable lathe tool holder to get?
there seems to be a dizzying array
with no general consensus on any of it!!
probably because it doesn't really matter?
so the cheaper the better then?
for the inserts i mean
there is geometry after geometry for the actual insert, and a ton of different holders for each type
sandvik seems to be well regarded
so i know that rake angles are important
back rake in particular
clearance angles maybe self explanatory and important so long as they don't interfere
what about lead angle?
and can you put neutral or positive rake inserts in a "N" type tool?
what is your material, feed and speed?
aluminum, brass, steel, a bit of everything
i'd prefer to use a slightly positive rake angle just to keep the cutting forces down, my lathe is pretty small
and under powered
sort of like the moped of lathes
it'll get you there eventually
you can probably minimize the number of inserts you need, but brass needs negative rake, aluminum and steel positive
so would it be correct to state that the rake angle is set by the insert, and not by the holder?
unless you get one of the face centered cubic brasses
mostly aluminum and steel, with the occasional bushing or whatnot
I'm pretty sure that is the case, but I never really looked too hard
I took a manufacturing course before they invented these tools
i took one, but they focused only on grinding your own
didn't really get into practical production
well, it is the same principle
we did cnc with paper tape
i should probably clarify... they had us grind one type of bit, the classic HSS with the classic angles
talked a bit about rake angles and clearance, but didn't elaborate much on that part of the course
that's more than we did, but I did make a nice threaded shaft
we didn't actually make anything, just turned the ground bit in for evaluation
we also made an ashtray out of cast aluminum
yeah, and we cast the blanks for the next class to machine
we hobbed a gear
back when you could still smoke without getting sued for it
It was a fairly nice Virginia Tech ashtray
my stepmother smoked at the time
casting is fun too
but i guess i didn't get so much out of it as i should have, not even knowing what to ask
the instructor was a pretty knowledgeable machinist
probably could have milked him for tons of info if i had known a bit more
I slept through an exam, flunked the course so I took the lab twice. I got really good at that stuff
it was a manufacturing processes course
i would like to go back and take it again now
I had an A in the lab, but it isn't a separate course
oh that bite
usually the labs are what take up all the time
that one I didn't mind
so i'm looking through a kennemetal catalog, and it **appears** that they have different tool holders for negative and positive rake tool holders
that make sense, doesn't it?
not sure... that would make it seem as if the insert does not set the rake angle, only the tool holder
dareposte: the toolholders done by clearance angle, not rake
but then why have N and P inserts
twp clearance angles, actually
one angle is the amount of clearance the toolholder itself puts on the tool by angling the pocket up and down
the second angle is the natrual clearance of the insert itself that the toolholder is expecting
so a P tool holder should be able to take N inserts then...
obviously, all that affects rake
i don't know, i never bothered to memorize all the numbers
positive rake insert needs more clearance, so it stands to reason it could take a negative rake insert
supposing all else is equal with supporting the insert
toastydeath: how do you select the insert and tool?
eric_unterhause1: what do you mean
say you have a job, and need to select the insert and tool you are going to use
eric_unterhause1: i look at the job, and look at the available inserts/inserts in the catalog
they'll tell you what the application is in the book
and a little bit of experience
so what i'm looking for is a general purpose indexable holder that takes cheap inserts, and will work for turning steel and aluminum. ideally it could both face and turn without a tool change
why are you using inserts, first of all
what is wrong with using brazed carbide and hss?
nothing is wrong with them, they work great
i would like to try inserts though just to see how they do
eric_unterhause1: i know that was kind of a bad answer, but machinery's handbook has a general list of rake/clearance angles for different tasks
there you can find an overview of all the tool angles and what they do, and then manufacturers do a bunch of additional stuff to the inserts not in machinery's handbook, and they'll explain it in the catalog
i can look it up in there then
dareposte: that was not to you.
that's why i prefaced it with eric_unterhause1
well it applied to me too anyway
I was just curious how you did it
oh, "feelings" is the general answer.
that was my guess
what about "wedge" vs "clamp" vs "screw lock" vs "lever"
for retaining them
"this negative rake, honed edge insert with a thick coating is not going to be good for finish turning aluminum"
dareposte: doesn't really matter
i've not had an insert come out on me under normal circumstances
inserts often require you take more than a .030" cut, by the way
how do you do a finish pass then
or is that your finish pass..
finish at .050
or, use a different tool with a finishing insert
so if you miss it by a thou then you're done for
heck miss it by .010 and you're done
it takes a lot of work to back the machine up
and dust it off a couple times
and the finish might suck.
on sufficiently rigid machines it does well but it will way over cut
over cut as in like dig in?
on less rigid machines, it will get nasty.
what about on flimsy machines
there are inserts you can find, inexpensive ones, that will do what you want
but i can't figure out why you'd want to use an iffy insert like that in place of properly ground hss or carbide tooling
i agree that the practical reason for it is not so compelling
i don't know if kennametal has anything off the top of my head, but you're looking for a slightly positive rake tool (5-7 degrees maybe?) with 3-5 of clearance, triangular insert
and something that is not coated too thick, and something that doesn't have a honed edge
you might look at general turning/finishing inserts for steel
3-5 clearance is on the leading edge?
uh, the side of the insert
i suggest getting more of a general/finishing insert for steel because you're not going to do the crazy things on your machine that you can do in aluminum
what about lead angle then, just to suit what I want to do?
well part of the reason for starting to learn about these things is the urge to get a bigger machine
if you get triangular inserts, look for a lead angle of like, uh, 30 degrees?
that way you can turn and face on the same tool.
and shoulder, etc
so that doesn't make a terrible difference for finish or something?
lead angle mostly affects where the cutting force goes.
i think that would be great, but didn't know the compromises
with a negative lead, the tool will pull the work towards it
positive lead, the tool will push the work away
90 or 0, depending on how you look at it, will mean all the force is going right into the headstock of the lathe
oh that does make sense
so clear now that you said that
lead angle makes more difference in boring operations
so positive rake would sort of counteract a lead angle, by reducing the overall cutting force
and if my Z axis stepper is undersized, then a lead angle would ideally be better then no lead angle :)
no, because the amount of force the z axis is applying is fairly constant.
if you're applying 60 lbs (just say) in Z, as the lead angle changes, the resultant force is something more than 60, but it does not change that you are applying 60 lbs.
deflection increases, but the force the motor sees should be about the same.
[05:38:05] <dareposte> http://cgi.ebay.com/BRIDGEPORT-Romi-EZPATH-CNC-Manual-LATHE-HYDRAULIC_W0QQitemZ29030026624well
very good to konw
thanks for the education
[05:38:42] <dareposte> http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/29/0d/dbe2_12.JPG
<--- what I was thinking of
if you can afford a romi, go for it
maybe a used one
all the used ones i've seen are in the 10k usd ballpark
personally, if I was to buy a CNC lathe?
i would get a plain-jane turning center.
yeah i've got about $15-$20k to get one and tool it
i would not muck around with hybrid machines because they are more money, and less tool
so i was thinking $10-$12 for the lathe, the rest for tooling kit
anything specific you'd recommend to watch for?
i would expect a beat up turning center from a reputable maker for 5-6k to beat the snot out of a 15k hybrid
i would look for ikeagi, okuma, mori seki
so a turning center vs. a cnc "hybrid".... whats the down side
some hybrids have cutsie conversational controls.
that aren't that useful to begin with, so it's not much of a loss
the turning centers always have the full enclosure, so i can't see inside
the chucks tend to be A taper, not D taper
that's a plus, dude
yeah i know
make SURE. make SURE. make SURE.
but not when you're so ignorant as i am
if you get a turning center.
to get one.
where the door.
toward the spindle, TOWARD it.
not away from it.
so the chips fall in?
what about a sliding door
the door does slide.
so why does it matter then?
if the door slides open away from the spindle (Z+) the chuck will spray coolant and chips all over you and everything nearby
[05:44:42] <dareposte> http://i7.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/36/f8/01ae_12.JPG
if it opens toward the chuck you have a way easier and safer time setting the machine
just like that machine there.
oh i see
so you don't necessarily stop the spindle when you open the door
or the flood apparently
you do stop the flood
unless you're on a big lathe and the door is big enough to block it all, but anything under 15" swing will probably not have that
but it'll spit a substantial amount of coolant at you for about two minutes
other downsides, make sure you get a lot of tooling with the machine if you can
there are a few different turret designs and the toolholders that bolt on are not interchangable between those designs
but if you have a mill, it's pretty easy to make a toolholder.
just a block of steel with some holes in it.
[05:48:46] <dareposte> http://i24.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/35/dd/4da7_12.JPG
<--- there's that beat-to-death okuma you were talking about earlier... $6k
re: mill, perfect
hahah, yeah that is pretty beat up, you'd wnat to see it under power if possible
check the control, and make sure you can find parts for the control
you mean retrofit emc?
oh, or do that i guess
i'd hate losing all the turning cycles though
if you're going to use mastercam or something to do your toolpath, then there's no problem
but i hate, hate, hate having to program every stupid pass to rough something out
i'd rather call g71, program the contour, and walk away
yeah i noticed that emc didn't have that
i'd love to see it there too
[05:51:30] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/OKUMA-CNC-LATHE-LC30-W-12-CHUCK-must-move-it-VIDEO_W0QQitemZ150328130385QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?hash=item150328130385&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318
yeah i saw that one
its a beast
and the door opens the wrong way
no, it has two doors.
big lathes have two doors, and they roll along the length of the machine
why is a D spindle better than an A spindle
a spindle takes about 20 minutes to change a chuck.
they are powered, however
which doesn't really help you much
D mount is all camlock, couple half twists of an allen key and the whole shenanigan is off
that video the lathe sounds a little sick... lots of weird throbbing vibrations
a mount, you have to undo bolts
and despite sounding easy, it is not
so the camlock spindles are desirable that way
good to know
but personally, i'd take an a spindle because they're more rigid
i'd want a collet chuck and a closer on it for what i'm wanting to do
should be able to fit one to either i would think?
turning centers have power chucks and collets
i'm not sure that okuma would fit in a "residential" garage
if you can find a shot of the front of a turning center, there's usually a pedal on the floor
that opens and closes the chuck.
but only power chucks, which may not be useful to you
not pneumo, hydraulic
there's a big hydraulic drawtube in the spindle of most turning centers.
screw an adapter onto it to fit whatever collet nose you slapped on, and it'll open and close your collets or power chucks for you.
[05:58:45] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/Okuma-LS-N-CNC-lathe-Fagor-8025-control_W0QQitemZ170307882634QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?hash=item170307882634&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318
i would personally like to have one of these style lathes, a flatbed turning center
with a manual 4 jaw chuck on it
so a turning center, with auto chuck
that would be great
i hate busting my knuckles on my chuck
auto chucks need soft jaws
a lot of soft jaws.
which, if you are doing production and it kind of sounds like you are planning on it, isn't so bad
but for dinky one of stuff, it's a consumable
yeah that's the end goal
basically there's so much cheap machinery on the market at the moment, i'd like to pick one up and put it to use
i would think a used one would probably hold value reasonably well too
which makes it better than buying a new car or house
or just about anything these days...
if you keep it well, it will hold a pretty decent amount of value.
and plus the tooling
if you get a package deal and wind up getting out, you can part it and probably make money
a lot of these almost would cost more to get delivered and rigged in than what they're selling for
i've never looked at rigging costs for one
i should, i suppose, or just ask my boss
a decent sized fork would probably move one
i wouldn't think they weigh more than 5-6 tons
for the big ones
they all have strap points
and a little diagram
"forklift this way"
the big ones usually weigh 6 tons
or a little more.
not so bad
definitely not going to move it around often though
yeah, you'd have to re-level it
also probably won't set it on a wood joisted floor like my current one is
no, that would be bad juju
a 6" slab should hold it though
i'd get a smaller one anyway
maybe 6000 lbs range
the haas SL-40 says it weighs 25,000 lbs
can i recommend not getting a haas
any reason in particular?
their site is convenient for ballparking specs though, pretty nice layout
haas, haas is like a first time amateur's entry into a professional art gallery
it is art, and it is okay
their controls are flashy, but lack depth - the subtle controls and feel you get on a more mainstream control are not there
features to keep the machine under fine control during setup are just plain old missing
features such as...?
how the machine holds, feed/rapid overrides
they're all buttons, that are a little hard to press
on a fanuc/yasnac/whatever you can turn the feed knob to 0, and the machine will freeze.
so you can hit feed start and take a gander at the distance to go
not so much on a haas
many controls will also freeze rapids with feed at zero
[06:22:11] <|dareposte|> http://www.romiusa.com/gl240.htm
<--- there's a romi stripped of it's armor, they look so simple like that
so no matter what, you can get a complete idea of what's going on before it goes anywhere
also the offsets are inconsistent - some are positive, some are negative for the EXACT same machine position
thta's a cool machine there
no pricing though
if i had to bet, i'd say 50k.
cheaper than an escalade
it looks like it runs on linear guides
and infinitely more functional!
i wouldn't have thought
linear guides are cool until you crash the machine and the machine puts a +.003" bulge in your turned parts
from then on out
what gives there?
i'd do linear guides if i was using mastercam
and had vericut or something
the guides are bolted?
plus they're prone to brinneling
the linears i've worked with you could use to beat the casting to death
yeah the bolted connection would be a weak point i guess
those linears look small too in the picture
we have a hardinge, pretty good make
took a good whack i forget how
but it flips up three thou as you come in to the chuck
the guides shifted
you can get those re-set
or change them out
or get a box way machine since i don't need 2500 ipm rapids
i'm okay with 500 ipm
yeah or that
i know i'd wreck one
and aren't boxes cheaper too
my machinist friend at work was telling me about one he got, some asian one that is a good name
if that's possible
tracks or trax or something
haven't looked into it yet
almost all top-end machine tools come from japan
sounds like a machine model, not a brand, but i could be wrong
i think it was further south than japan
(that's a hybrid control)
yeah his is a hybrid
he's mostly a traditional machinist
maintenance crib guy
are generally considered superior in that market
but he bought one and has been making parts out of his barn with it for years
they are not fancy machines or particularly high accuracy, but they're far more solid than a lot of stuff that's out there
[06:30:58] <|dareposte|> http://www.southwesternindustries.com/swi/prod_lathes1.shtml
that might be them
missing a few things i'd want though
a tool turret for starters
anybody still make a good box way machine?
ALL of the high end manufactuers make box way machines
and they still hand scrape the wayseats
for visual effect?
no, because it's the right way to get the job done
i've seen some where they would do that so it would hold oil
instead of machining the surfaces and shimming it
and thus reducing contact and rigidity
i figured they would surface grind the ways
they note how much has to come off, and scrape it
they do grind the ways, because they're hardened
oh the way seats
missed that part
yeah the ways are just strips that bolt onto the seats
but to be fair, the ways of the grinder they use to make those ARE scraped.
why couldn't they just grind the way seats too then?
it makes alignment easier
no such thing as a gantry grinder?
there is a gantry grinder
they use it to grind the ways once they're installed.
it helps to have as accurate a starting point as you can
you seem to know a lot about this
i rly like machining.
i attempted to hand scrape a straight edge once
hahah how far'd you get
i got one side straight
to within a half thousandth
the other side i could never get parallel though
so i guess they are both straight, but not parallel
it was just a piece of 1/8" cold roll, so not a lot of surface to scrape
maybe 8" long
and i scraped the skinny edge
fighting flex too
mostly wanted to see how it was done, and understand the principles
maybe some day i'd like to get a casting made and fab a machine from scratch
i think i would opt for grinding if possible though
scraping is nice because it's as accurate as you care to make it.
not limited by the inherent accuracy of the grinder
i can appreciate that, and also that it is one of the roots of precision tools
it might not be so bad with a good sized scraper
and a lot of practice
that last part there
i had a scraper made for scraping bearings in, which is apparently still done somewhat frequently
seems to be the crux
but it was slightly larger than a kitchen knife
maybe the size of a big wood chisel
yeah, the scaper i've got has a carbide insert
makes it much easier
[06:43:50] <|dareposte|> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=4839433&PMAKA=240-3363
i think that's the one i got
not really a true one like what you would use for scraping ways, but it served my purpose
carbide would be nice
i also cheated and i have a lot of books
plus, i have dudes who scrape
what did you scrape with it?
and can be like "you're failing at everything"
some aluminum blocks
what do they scrape at work?
i didn't realize it was actually used much any more
nothing, but one of the owners has a side business doing large machine repair
and a huge part of their thing is scraping
so he is a really good scrapehand
oh yeah that's neat
i never really got very far because aluminum is really not good for scraping
and i should have like, flycut the blocks
instead, i filed them down
they're nowhere near flat
i was doing the autogeneration thing
i started out scraping the wide end of a 2" wide cold roll, welded into a T with another piece
take 3 parts that are not flat, and make them flat by checking them continually against each other
yeah i thought about that
but i already had a surface plate
on this picture... http://www.romiusa.com/images/content/ROMI_GL240Insert.jpg
... is that the spindle motor down at the very bottom left?
strange place for it
dunno, maybe they have a model with a transmission
so that ledge hanging off the front is just to hold the tailstock then
the "bed" is that back set of linear rails
the what where?
man such a simple design
some steel, a couple precision bearings, servo motor
cast iron, really
don't want steel in a machine frame
not so sure about that
our production grinders are all steel weldments
as well as the boring and honing machines
the more steel you use in a machine, the higher the tendency to chatter.
i've heard that before, but i have since seen otherwise
since steel doesn't have any internal damping properties, it just transmits whatever vibration right along
i took a trip through our powertrain building and it was pretty amazing
i'm not saying it isn't used, but i've spoken with internationally recognized machine designers and they all agree on CI
maybe cost prohibitive for one-offs then
dunno, could very well have enough damping somewhere else in the machine that it just doesn't matter
but every 4 and 6 cylinder we make is faced and bored on those things
also boring is not exactly the most tedius operation
so it could be that there's just no need to use CI
since it's difficult to work with otherwise
don't need it, don't use it
i've never heard where all the 'absorbed' energy actually goes though
or is it just not conducted through the frame so well
it loses energy as the vibrations try to pass through the graphite flakes
stays isolated at the point of cause
as least that's my understanding of it
loses energy to heat?
it's easy to prove that it's damping, just ring a rod of steel, then a rod of ci
but my understanding of the exact mechanism is really basic as you can see
intuitively it certainly is apparent
and it does depend on the graphite
because wrought iron rings just like steel
i don't know if high concentrations of boron nitride would produce damping steel, but that would be a really cool thing to see
since it forms all the same structures as carbon
but carbon is so cheap...
just to see if it works, you know
what's it normally used for
high speed machining hard steel
since diamond can't cut steel at those temperatures
i think i found a tool holder to try
[07:08:04] <|dareposte|> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2148795&PMT4NO=59478392
not sure if i can face with that though
it has 0 degree lead angle
if you can find an insert with rake on it, you'll be good.
TPG it says
those are common enough
[07:11:16] <|dareposte|> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=16846516&PMT4NO=0
was the other candidate
which maybe would actually be better
the right hand version of that though, not the LH
you only get 2 edges
those are, in my opinion, better tools, but the TPG style insert gives you three edges per insert
yeah can you flip them over though
if you use positive rake, that is
you have to have a negative rake toolholder, with an insert designed to have positive rake in that holder
i had a set of 1/2" TTMG indexables, but they were crap
then you can flip it and get more
that's a bit bizaare
a negative holder, with a positive insert?
it's pretty standard, but the inserts tend to be more expensive
i guess for finishing or something
for all kinds of things
it's very common to find a 5 degree negative holder, with an insert that is 12-30 degrees positive on the chipbreaker geometry
so the 5 comes out of that insert, and you get the effective rake
but they're like 10 bucks a pop in a lot of cases.
better stay away from those then
so i would probably want one with a relief angle then
or i'm going to rub it with positive rake insert
so the TNMG, i think the N=0 degree relief angle
if you take a no relief insert, you have to get a negative toolholder or it rubs
which means you have to buy a more expensive insert to get back to positive rake.
if you get an insert with like 5 or 7 degrees of clearance, you can buy a flat top insert with no geometry on the top of the thing, and use a positive rake holder
those inserts can be found cheaper, 3-4 bucks
but you get fewer edges
which comes back to tpg being the cheapest per edge
why is ray tracing important in CAD?
girlmeteor is now known as ibuffy
girlmeteor: if you're going to be doing high quality rendering for customers or something, ray tracing gives you a very realistic result
solidworks has some stupid raytracing thing that we used to model our products for our pamphlets, and it came out pretty darn nice
doedsn't it simulate actual light rays hitting it, and make for cool specular reflections and what not?
like shrek-type rendering
so for CAD, it's not important. mostly marketing tool
or product concept communications
depends on who's using the cad package, if it's an engineer nobody cares, but an artist or designer might
wouldn't they use a modeler then
dunno but solidworks has a really robust modeling thing.
we used it, it worked
yeah no doubt
you're probably completely right though
i think the artists use 3dsmax though
even the big "artistic" yachts are designed in those types, because parametrically defining them would be near impossible
but with those mesh tools you can get sufficiently close to dimension, but still nudge and bump to make it look nicer
solidworks is the cat's meow as far as i'm concerned
we have to use inventor at work and it kills me
haha screw inventor
literally every day i lose a little more of my life just from using that crappy software
it's like autodesk went, "oh my god, we're no longer relevent to mechanical engineering"
i may as well smoke a pack a day
and freaked out
it can't even open an iges file
and if you do somehow get it to open, you can't manipulate or measure it
so if we get a huge point cloud back from measurement, we have to go borrow their machine to view it
but naturally they also want to use it for more measurements
funny thing, those cmms
the cmms make their own reports, so those aren't the problem. its the dang laser scanners that generate so much data
and of course I/S thinks all you need is a 3 year old laptop with no video ram to do your job
i wish we had cool stuff
we have one manual cmm that isn't very good, and a 30" comparator.
comparators are cool
we dont have any of those in my shop
we do have two 12 foot or so dual-arm cmms, a manual measurement table the same size, and a dozen portables
what do you measure
at first yeah, but its always the same
learning to use it was like hiking everest, but once you're done its not so much fun
"it's awfully chilly up here"
i was intrigued by the "probe" function on emc
in what sense
that it was there..
wouldn't have expected a cnc controller to be able to do that
g31 on most fanuc controls!
of course it doesn't know anything, so like, you'll be programming a whole lot of macro stuff
of course they call it something retarded and non-obvious
so only those of us who read manuals for fun *cough* stumble across it
what can you do in macros?
in emc, a whole lot but i don't know anything about it
fanuc macro A is a bunch of G codes to do math and store variables, that's about it
i just discovered incremental positioning, but macros would be even better
fanuc macro b is like BASIC on your machine control
looping, branching, etc
that's a start
but emc doesn't do that, and macro b costs money if it's not already on the control
if we could get python or perl interpreters integrated in that would be very worthwhile
emc has it's own thingamabob that works really well from what i hear
it would be nice to have an actually extendable machine controller with an object language
instead of gcode
yeah that would be nice
although not standard, so probably doomed to failure
or niche adoption
my vision is objects like toolpaths, tools, coordinate systems, machining methods
so you can just apply them to each other and whatnot
it's nice to dream
that would be cool
well like, imagine the tools had all the correct speed and feed information defined for materials
that you defined earlier
and a machining method, like square roughing or something
you could apply the square roughing method, with tool one, to toolpath 1, in coordinate system 2, or whatever
and link it all to a part object that defined all the operations, the material, the tool types required, etc
so apparently there are different grades of carbide
maybe that would explain my past poor performance with TTM inserts
what would happen if i used C2 carbide on normal steel
i don't know
i don't know the C categories, because they're only like, application guides
they're not a linear progression of any sort, like by rupture strength or whatever
there's another scale, PMK/NHS or N<something>S
which is stainless, cast iron, steel / nonferrous, hard turning, and special
then they give you a number from 10-50
lower is tougher with higher rupture strength for roughing/interrupted cutting at slower speed, and higher is more brittle but with very high hot temps
i find that more useful than the C scale, most manufactuers do as well
so they put it right on the label
of the insert box
thanks for the education
np, thanks for listening to rambling
where do you guys work that require to know this software?
not required, just fun for me
for emc anyway
alex_joni: illuminated by light pollution: http://www.flickr.com/photos/natelipkowitz/3262341887/
fenn: I wanted to say "nice", but I'm not sure it's actually nice ;)
the photo is cool though
i should make a mini version of that romi, out of welded steel and concrete
[12:03:55] <fenn> http://www.romiusa.com/images/content/ROMI_GL240Insert.jpg
some FEM analysis is probably warranted
you should make a left and a right one
for my bilaterally symmetric machine shop
half the shop makes left handed threads
and all the magnets are backwards
[12:49:05] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=576710&postcount=244
hmmm I think I know where 2 or three large servos are...
finally not a pic of the pcb :) when's production of boards ?
I owe, I owe it's off to work I go
heh - hooked to an actual machine - go figure ;)
* fenn mutters about documentation
Good morning fenn
skunkworks: indeed a crazy idea
skunkworks_: where are you at project-wise with the k&t?
the last thing we did was tear the old electronics out and started dissasembling.
but it has been a few months. when dad retires - things will pick up.
skunkworks_: is that your design he's using?
(I didn't read the whole thread)
cradek: I really don't think so - just the general idea ;)
but it's named after you anyway?
I don't get it either...
I think it's amazing that you guys have made functional servo amps
I still think it is a cool way of doing closed loop.
the scematic he posted is not available anymore - but he used a different driver ic that got rid of the flip-flop. plus a little different current limit scheme
[14:50:57] <BJT-Work> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=576326#post576326
that's kinda what I thought
I'd do a lot of surfing and reading before resorting to posting "I suck"
must be a bad day for him
skunkworks_: i think you should use a revision control system
fenn: I have a hard time being organized.
just ask my wife.
heh maybe your wife should use a revision control system then :P
wives do try to revise and update their fellas
* skunkworks_ wonders what revision he is up to...
get earplugs ready and go ask wife
i'm having issues getting my eth0 to assign the ip and ping the lan
i'm a windows guy, but i'm not a dumbass
can anyone point me to the correct config files?
or setup script?
for samba file sharing
try networking on the administration menu
if that doesn't help, try asking on the #ubuntu channel
the only linuxcnc-ubuntu specific advice is that if the device doesn't appear *at all*, install linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-12-rtai and see whether that makes a difference.
otherwise, any ubuntu advice on configuring network cards should apply
linux-ubuntu-modules mostly applies to wireless cards
[17:59:14] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/binary-i386/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-16-rtai_2.6.24-16.22.linuxcnc.2_i386.deb
setting up your IP is a separate issue from sharing via samba
sudo ifconfig eth0 up <your IP>
Hmm. I seem to have a lot of ideas lately (bad ones mostly or just not well thought thou). anyway several of the machines at work don't have good coolant level indicators. so I thought that's something that would require lite effort and give good results.
Using a small microprocessor I could read a ultrasonic proximity sensor or perhaps something simpler like a potentiometer with an arm attached to a float and then present the value on a 3 digit 7-segment display or perhaps just a bar display.
and then it could email your blackberry when the coolant level is low?
nah, thats overkill really.
that is the most amazing thing i have ever heard
earlier today i was talking with someone about how they hate the buzzer on the washing machine, and somehow we settled on emailing you as the simplest solution
think about it: you could do your laundry anywhere in the world and know when it's finished
toastatwork. the idea is very simple but its something that could be implemented and actually do some good.
it would certainly save a few endmills
back to work i go
Kohlswa7578 is now known as Kohlswa
hey, it's hot here!
no, Las Vegas
it was about 0 when I left this morning
0 fahrenheit or celsius
SWPadnos: Have you ever thought of becoming a flight attendant? With as much as you fly, might as well get paid for it!
Anybody online right now who has built a EDM power supply?
geo01005 i didnt know what one was, but found this excellent write up http://pico-systems.com/edm.html
I'm reading that right now :)
yeah its quite interesting, handy as it says, for getting broken things out of holes
That one is a way simplified EDM power supply...
Just a DC power supply with a current limit resistor.