any PCB millers out there? cradek, jepler, skunkworks?
looking for recommended spindle speed
Just uploaded a video of some plasma cutting with EMC if anyone is interested: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-252012548542272059
jmkasunich: 50 kazillion RPM =)
yeah, I was afraid of that
Dallur1 that is a large table
whats you cutting tool??
jmkasunich: But, since it's copper... wouldn't you use similr speeds like aluminum to prevent buildup?
itty bitty carbides
drills and mills
and your cutting fiberboard i presume
jmkasunich: 2.5m x 6.5m
I made it for cutting 2x6m platers for my boat
err plates for my boat
Dallur1 hows the boat progressing?
oh you talking the machine, I thought you meant the pcb =)
I was thinking... That's a DMAN BIG ASS PCB
BigJohnT: Well, probably going to turn it next weekend
[00:07:46] <jmkasunich> http://www.precisebits.com/applications/pcbtools.htm
those cutters ^^^^^
FYI do not change cutter while in the machine... it will drop out of your hand and become SWARF
20K to 100K RPM - that is a big range
well ok only 30% of the time
I have a 400W 18000 RPM motor, and am trying to design a belt drive from motor to spindle
400W at 18KRPM is 1.87 lb-in
i'd use it direct
that is rather slow for those cutters
I watched a guy build a 40' shrimp boat in his back yard... he got 90% complete before they caught him...
I was thinking 2:1
Dallur1: what you have a junk yard?
Dallur1: what you have, a junk yard?
BigJohnT: what do you mean :"caught him"?
he got the 3rd shift crane operator to set the steel over the fence into his truck...
it's illegal to build boats now? (or was he doing it with someone else's steel?)
he was stealing the steel from the shipyard where I worked
JymmmEMC: nope, it's the place I rent to build the boat, the guy buys all this crap and it just rusts outside
magnet crane would set it over the fence into his truck
Dallur1: Ah, ok.
BigJohnT: Did they repo the boat?
dont worry the chines will end up with the steel sooner than later
Oh, for you guys in the boonies that are still on dialup... If you have cell service you can get a data card from (like) AT&T for $60/mo
it disappeared for sure
and my dial up is $19 a month
...and they have routers now that you can use to share the 3G bandwidth on your LAN
Dallur1 are you the chap on the left or the right in the video?
BigJohnT: im the chubby one with the black hair
BigJohnT: most of the time I'm the one operating the table
but you both have helmets on :)
CTHD AVI+Sub's.... hawt damn!
BigJohnT: that's me
Dallur1 this is me http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/hunting/P1010063.jpg
I'm the one with the orange cap
BigJohnT: Joos one ugly sucker with a hole in your belly!
bad hair day for sure
Damn, didn't type fast enough =)
yeah, no doubt
you trying to kill it, or butcher it all at the same time?
single shot... one shot one kill
shoot them in the neck so you don't have to wander about looking for them
Ah, I've only gone deer hunting once.
Found bear cubs, and we got the hell outta there =)
where there is cubs there is momma and she ain't happy your there
Exactly. And by the looks of where the cubs were, we were probably between them and Momma.
I have to be careful I don't shoot a cow where I hunt
Dallur1 I like this one http://dallur.com/index.php?id=44&tx_lzgallery_pi1[showUid]=7&tx_lzgallery_pi1[old]=5x5x1&tx_lzgallery_pi1[pic]=6&tx_lzgallery_pi1[colrows]=1x1
Nice that they let you. I suspect many wouldn't even let hunters on their land with all the fscksup out there
yes that is true
BigJohnT: I got bet I could not fit that on my head, it fit, it stuck I won, yet lost
well time to head up out of the beer cave
talk to you guys later
* JymmmEMC watches CTHD and rips more DVD's =)
haha! pic16f84's bought from microchip online dublin, ireland, shipped from chacherngsao, thailand, arrived in taiching, taiwan in 4 calendar days ! pretty good stuff this internet.
nooooo are they still making those cursed things?
the 16f84 specifically - I think that's the one hobbyists started using 10 years ago and didn't have the sense to stop using :-)
cradek: PCB milling - what speed do you use? "as fast as it will go" ?
and .001 inch per rev (two flutes)
I've once again got the bug to build a PCB mill
each time that happens I get closer to actually doing it
iirc, the manufacturer says spin the isolation tools at least 20krpm
they definitely cut cleaner at 20k than 10k
the website is rather vague - they say "20K to 100K" when referring to an entire product line, nothing more specific
I have an 18K motor, and I'd really rather not do direct drive (obstructing the back end of the spindle is a pain - drawbar, etc wants to be there)
so I'm investigating belt technologies
MXL timing belts are adequate for the power I have, but the chart tops out at 20K, and the tables at 12K rpm
doubling (or more) the speed would be nice
what's a reasonable feed rate on that thing?
you're accel limited I'm sure
think = the shoptask?
I'm not planning shoptask
too much lash, too much slop
I'm thinking dedicated machine, about 8x12
if you can get 40ipm 40krpm it'd be slick
IPM shouldn't be a problem
oh, actually one place where IPM will be limited - Z
without rounding corners too much...
how fast do you feed when drilling?
for axis drives on X and Y I'm thinking the ametek motors, with 2500 PPR 10K count encoders
[01:33:31] <cradek> http://unpythonic.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/singlesided.gpar?rev=1.4
with direct drive 5tpi screws I'd have 50K counts per inch, and 240 ipm max speed
looks like I drill at 8
I'm thinking smaller motor for Z, since it will most likely be on the Y carriage
Z travel will only be 1-1/2 to 2" so rapids aren't important
you'll only move .050 anyway
accel is the issue
I have several possibilities for Z that will let me do 20 ipm with >20K count/inch resolution
hm, maybe almost .100 for drilling
you buy tools with depth rings>?
no, I probe them for length
well, last I made pcbs - it's been a while
seems like the biggest Z travel is for toolchanging
maybe you could have a way to move the spindle out from above the table somehow?
you don't have to go up, necessarily
although an inch or so of travel would improve versatility
you don't need much TLO either
yes you might use up a lot of an inch for TLO flexibility
or work that is thicker than 0.062
I'm thinking of a quill for Z - piece of 1-1/4 or 1-1/2" round steel sliding in bushings
Y carriage will be a THK SR-45 car
I have a 14" length of track for that car, it is about 4" long, so 10" travel
I have a ballscrew about that long as well
the main stumbling block (as always) is motor-to-spindle drive, toolholding, and Z screw location
the two main choices for high speed belt drive are fine pitch timing belts, and small flat belts
Gates has tech data for timing belts, but the stop at 20K RPM
tech data for flat belts is defying my google skills
seems like rpm of a belt means little
limiting factor for belts is surface speed (quoted in feet per minute usually)
I can imagine a speed vs radius of bend tradeoff
fenn: gates quotes 6500 fpm surface speed
with small pulleys that would allow over 20K, probably 30K
but there will be other effects - flex = losses = heat, above a certain speed that may be the limit
also, centrifugal force at high speeds tends to stretch the belt away from the pulley
I found a machine design article that says flat belts can hit 10K fpm surface speeds
if I aim for 8K sfm, and 18K motor RPM, that gives a motor pulley of 1.7" diameter
motor torque is 1.9 in-lb
so I need 2.2 lb difference in tension between loose and tight sides of the belt
heh, you learn the strangest things on the internet
they make urethane belts (mostly for conveyer use) that contain copper fibers
reason? because when used on a food packaging line, a broken belt that falls into the product will be detected by the metal detectors and that product rejected - plain belts would be missed and might be shipped with the food
I need some help
I'm re-compiling 2.6.22 with rtai-3.6-cv
i've already gotten to the stage where i compile rtai
sudo make gives an erro: '/usr/include/limits.h:125:25: error: limits.h: No such file...'
maddash: we work with a specific version in a specific environment, we just have no experiencde outside of that, and many (like me) just repeat a series of incantations and cross our fingers. go outside that, and you're better off asking on an rtai channel.
if this <is< std for emc, then you dont have the basics installed, so review the instructions on wiki, which worked for me last nite
you may need more dev packages, try $ sudo apt-get build-dep emc2
maddash: also see: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
wtf, i'm following the lenny install instructions
[04:48:59] <maddash> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_RTAI
uh, dapper and hardy are explained here , i dont know about lenny http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
starting at 2.1.2
wow, thers a lot there about lenny, sorry, no experience on lenny
wtf wtf wtf it's a problem with libc6-dev
yeh that lib is picky and has loads of deps withit, in that brick stacking game, its near the bottom!
there's a line, "# include_next <limits.h>"
if I comment it oiut, the error goes away, but ten there's a 'LONG_MAX' undefined error
i cant even check where it is on mine now, using xp for cad and vista cant see linux partitions, sorry. you DO need that header file, and it comes in one of those preliminary apt-gets
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