hi everybody, i have a little doubt, can i connect a yaskawa servo drive (the ones that work with pulses) for using it as a spindle drive?
pulses as in steps for positioning? or PWM ?
well the servos that i'm talking work like the steppers with pulses and direction
if i'm not wrong
but yes, i want to use the servo as a spindle with pwm
is that possible? or i have to use a spindle drive designed for that?
because i need quickly response in acceleration and desacceleration
you can get both outputs from emc2 (either step/dir or pwm)
depends on the steprate you need, but maybe you need additional hardware too
this servos come with the driver for sending pulses to them
i don't know if that is enough
but you are telling me that i can use a servo motor as a spindle with emc right?
I don't see a problem in doing that
and i have to use the servo with pulses not with pwm right?
I don't know what modes your servo supports
with emc2 you can drive a servo in more than one way: step/dir (pretty stupid), pwm, analog, etc
step/dir is not a good interface for a spindle.. but it should work
right, so i better use the pwm for spindle control
but if my servo uses pulses, it won't work with pwm signals right?
but if you have a yaskawa servo + drive, somehow I doubt it can only do step/dir
i didn't buy it yet, i'm looking for the info because i'll but it in the next few days to star the trials, i will ask to my seller if the driver supports pwm input
not BUT Buy i mean
leito14: usually there is a more complex process to decide what you need for your machine
what are the other motors/drivers, how do you plan to make everything work
do you need many I/Os, or is the parport enough
well, im planning to add more parports with pci interfaces, and the plan is to use servos with pulses and pwm for the critical timing works
if you want to use servos, then the best solution would be to get some hardware to read encoders, and set analog output to control the motors
there are _many_ advantages against running an open-loop system (like step/dir servo)
but it's 2:30 am here, so I'm off to bed ;)
good night all
good night alex
thank you very much
sure, keep typing .. someone else will surely chime in ;)
what is the yaskawa model number?
they have the position drives which work off of step/dir
and analog input as well as a batch of proprietary nonsense
let me see the model
but as far as I can tell, each drive does only one thing
I'm thinking that is in the proprietary nonsense category
what i'm planning to do is to use the servo as a spindle with pwm and an aditional encoder to send the position to the emc
so i have to get a driver with pwm input, i think
sorry for the model number is the only thing that i've found
I was looking for the SGMAH manuals and came up short
i was reading a sellers webpage so the info is not too specific
but do you think that the servo suports a driver with pwm input? i mean is a possibility to use a servo in pwm mode right?
I don't think that Yaskawa is at all flexible
if you are generating an analog signal of the correct voltages for an analog input, then yes
I have seen a lot of cheap yaskawa stuff on ebay because there is no data for it
and I didn't feel like wasting my time reverse engineering it
well, the other option is to use a dc motor with H bridge and encoder and then i can send the pwm with emc
but i need to get a brushless motor to make it work as i want
i need a low inertia motor
thanks for your help :)
sorry I didn't have any good news
don't worry i'll keep looking for
the SGMAH motors are compatible with the SGDH drives, aren't they?
yeah, the motors are fairly common
and SGDH drives can use step/dir, up/down, analog, and maybe quadrature control
I think those are different part numbers though
why do they have different part numbers then?
it's settable parameters for the SGDH drives I have
like SGDH-A5BE vs. SGDH-04AE?
like -xxAS vs -xxAP
hmmm. I don't recall seeing any -AS or -AP number
lemme check the manual
this is for the drives, not the motors?
I don't really know about those, older
SGDH are still being sold. there are SGDA that are an older version
there may be others also, like the Legend series and whatnot, that have those suffixes
you're right, I'm thinking about sgd and sgda
I didn't remember those suffixes (and I just looked at a label again to confirm :) )
can you download the configuration software?
hmmm. I don't remember
I think you can get SigmaWinLite
I have SigmaWin and YTerm (for talking to their motion controllers)
the downloads page has the sdgah with the same downloads as the sgdh, but not in the same place
and the manual doesnt mention the ah
yeah, never heard of that one
that was the part number he gave
although that's a motor part number
SGMAH, not SGDAH
too much confusion...
I never really did learn the motor part numbers, just the drives
(because we got several motors in a defunct robot, and I needed to get the matching drives)
these are a lot more like the drives I was thinking were rebadged yaskawas
I think Omron uses the same design
rob is now known as Guest19691
looks like some of the panasonics too
I think the omron is a known rebadge
one day I
I'll be able to makea a demo/testbed with 3 Yaskawa motors
I finally found an SGDH-02BE - 200W, 100V - to match the 200W motor
so I have 3 motors and matching drives, 2x50W and a 200W
and they all run off 100VAC, which is nice for portability
and they have absolute encoders, so they're good for expanding EMCs capabilities too ;)
I had similar thoughts, but I haven't managed to find enough drives
I finally found the last one
after buying a 50W drive at Yaskawa prices, I decided I could wait for the right one to come along on ebay
those sgdh drives go for big bucks, I'll wait for summer
"vendor price" is in the $750 range
and the motors are about the same, unless you want the absolute encoder or brake options
strangely, they only vary by $50-100 based on size (going between 50 and 200W - I'm sure the 400W-2kW ones are much more)
I have some tiny ones, hoping to put them in a robort
how tiny is tiny here? (physically)
4" long and less than 2" around
I know they make a 30W, and I think I've seen a 10W drive (SGDH-A1BE)
30w I think
Yaskawa or something else?
sgm something something 30 blah blah
ok. that's in the same size ballpark as the 50W ones (though mine have big gears on them)
DO I hear 100W... 100W... going once.... going twice.... SOLD to the hollow legged man for $1
hey, can it's possible to use a DC motor with a home made H bridge and a Encoder to get the position? i mean this would work fine for sycronized works?
( i can't get out of my head that doubt)
this is actually the kind of question that answers itself in a way
some have done it
some have probably failed
you may end up with a system that works, but it won't be the same thing as a "real" servo
several people have had success with treadmill motors
but it really depends on the motor (and the person) I guess
well the thing is that i don't know if there are servos with pwm input drive
but if i can get a pwm servo drive that would be perfect
PWM like RC servo positioners use or PWM that approximates an analog voltage?
where are you getting your pwm?
mmm i need pwm for spindle control i don't know what's the best choice
but i need good acceleration and desaceleration in the spindle that's why i'm thinking in a servo
it would be best to use analog velocity control for the spindle
you can use a PWM to generate the analog voltage (with suitable buffering)
this will work well for a spindle because you rarely want rapid speed changes on a spindle, so the filtering time constant can be very long compared to the rate the software updates the PWM output
can i show a video to see what i need to do?
you can link to one, but to be honest I don't expect to watch it (I really should be doing other things tonight)
others might though
ok no problem, it's a landis camshaft grinder, the spindle changes the speed fast to modify the surface speed and it's very fast so i need to control the spindle like that
interesting. analog will likely be your best bet then
so what kind of servo motor i have to get to make this?
I have no idea really. you need to figure out how much power you need and how fast the thing needs to accelerate
once you know that, you can select a servo and drive that meets your needs
sorry, what i mean is, i need an AC or DC servo?
once you have selected one, we can tell you how to get EMC2 to run it :)
well, I don't know
but the certaing thing is that i need a driver with pwm input right?
if you're getting a servo, then inertia and torque will be the things that matter, not whether it's AC or DC
no, not PWM input. analog input
there are two uses of PWM, and I think one of them is better than the other
you can either use the actual pulse width to set the speed (bad)
or you can use the average voltage to set the speed, by filtering the PWM output (good)
when you say "PWM input", it's hard to know which one they mean if they tell you the drive has it
but, to control an analog input drive what kind of output i need in the emc ?
analog output :)
there are several ways of getting that
is there any document or something to see that?
mesa is one (with the 7i33 daughtercard)
oh, so i need a control card
not a controller card, an interface card
i mean, i can't do that with the parport
there's a list on the wiki. one sec
you can generate PWM on the parport
but you won't get very fast speed updates, or you won't have many possible speeds
so the only way to control analog output is with a interface card
[02:41:03] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
some interface card is a good idea for just about any high speed, high accuracy system
i'll send an email to the people of mesa electronics to see if they can tell me what card i need to do what i want
you need to define what you want before they can do that :)
yes, well i know what i want, but i don't know surely what i need in matter of hardware
leito14: have you seen http://www.mesanet.com/motioncardinfo.html
yet? I'm a fan of the 5i20 5i22 5i23 series.
let me see
In a large enough machine, even the 5i21 would be good, lots of potential I/O there
yes that card would work, the only doubt that ihave is how to set the outputs for spindle control in the emc2 to work in analog mode like SWPadnos said
emc2 is very flexible and configurable. you should take a look at the parts of the manual that describe how to work with HAL (the hardware interface layer)
in a nutshell, emc2 has a motion controller that asks for a specific spindle speed. you connect that (in software) to whatever piece of software and/or hardware actually runs the spindle
i will take a look again, i only saw how to use the spindle with pwm
it makes no difference what it is, as long as you're using hardware that has an EMC2 driver
and you can use analog, step/dir, PWM, and whatever else is supported, at the same time
so the emc sends the signal to the board and the board generates the analog signal
leito14: There's a lot of stuff in the wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/
. Search for nothing (empty) and you'll get a list of every subject. Try http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control
there aren't "modes" for emc2 - you don't have to switch between "step/dir" mode and "true servo" mode
you use whatever combination of software and interface hardware is needed for your motors/drives
right, im gonna take a look to that info about analog spindle
thank you very much for your help both of you :)
you're welcome. definitely come back if you have more specific questions
(those are easier to answer ;) )
thanks for your understanding i will try to be more specific
no problem. I know it's hard when just about everything is new
leito14: I can talk about the 5i22 since I know it best. It has four "anything I/O" ports and by default it starts assigning servos from the top 4 at a time and steppers from the bottom 6 at a time. Anything unused is general purpose I/O (GPIO)
yes, and i'm a little desperate because is for our factory so it's critical to do this since the economical situation is critical and we're not a big factory
well i will read the 5i22 manual on the web and if i have more doubts i will tell you :)
Many others know the 5i20
i'm sure that you'll be able to help me
well, i have to go now, good night and thanks for your help again :)
leito14: goodnight, drop in anytime
I have a freshly installed ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj07.
Is it ok to allow Ubuntu's "Update Manager" to install the 300+ updates?
(Including the linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai ?
I ask only because there are firm cautions to not install ubuntu-8.10, and all the
updates to 8.04 seem to get the system "close to" an "8.10"
"update" is distinct from "upgrade"
unless you specifically tell it to, 8.04 won't ask you if you want to upgrade to a later version, unless that version is also LTS (long term support)
the next of which will be 10.04, I believe
I'm used to Debian where bumping from one version to the next is pretty
obvious. Etch to Lenny, 3.x to 4.x. But I'm getting the impression that (at least
it's similarly obvious on Ubuntu
for emc2's usage) bumping from 8.04 to 8.10 is a big deal.
the update manager will have a big button above the package list, that says "New version available : "x.xxx", do you want to upgrade?
if you don't hit that button, you'll only get updates that are applicable for the current OS version
Ah, so I don't have to carefully watch kernel image version numbers? Great.
no, but make sure you do notice if it ever says "Upgrade" instead of "Update"
Ok, then "upDATE" versus "upGRADE" is the key I'll watch for. Thanks.
it isn't quite as obvious as "dist-upgrade"
I wonder where I put the key to the trailer hitch pin lock
I was a little unnerved / uncertain when I was offered "rtai-modules-2.6.24-16-rtai".
Shoudn't the next LTS be 9.10? (Every 18 months?)
that's OK. I think ours is the only RTAI kernel you'll see in the repos you have by default
KimK, no, I don't think so
they support normal distros for 18 months
OK, I could be wrong
LTS for 3 years on the desktop and 5 on server
and they have a new LTS every two years
(6.06 was delayed by 2 months, it should have been 6.04)
Oh, 2 years? OK. Thanks.
SwPadnos, thanks again. After reading pdf files for 2 days, it's time to cut up a parallel cable and get to soldering.
Regnad: Might look into a cheap breakout board, saves a ton of time
I tried both ways
darepost: Unfortunately, I have more time on my hands right now than money...
wound up using a $25 breakout board with screw terminals, and highly encouraged
in that case, by all means chop up a parallel cable
... and the little money I have I'm targeting for hardware from the scrapyard (-JUST- missed getting my mits
on a very fine factory robot with 10' rails. <sigh>.
we are all the time scrapping out kawasakis up here
big monster robots though, i doubt they would fit in my garage or i'd probably have bought one back from the scrap yard
It was 4000 pounds of custom pharmecutical dispensing machinery. I managed to get
a handful of pneumatics, but thats about it.
what are you building? sorry I came in a bit late
However, the guy that beat me to it seems to be a mechanical engineer without a lot of software background.
And I just might be able to make myself indispensible to him on this linuxcnc business.
it's a heap to wade through for the non software inclined, that's for sure
No firm plans at this point... I'd like to cut modeling wax, and the long term goal is slicing up wood.
like a giant CNC buzz saw?
that is so awesome
i NEED one
When I get tired of bits & bytes, I -need- the smell of sawdust to calm me down ;-)
I turned a piece of hardwood a friend gave my on my lathe, and it did smell good. carbide eats it up
I gotta git... I've been putting off dinner for hours now and am starting to sink.
good luck, and see u around
I actually dropped in to give thanks to all the developers who are on here, I just earned my first official dollar using EMC as the controller
so anybody on here, thanks for the great software
JymmmEMC is now known as MrAsshole
MrAsshole is now known as JymmmEMC
[11:48:44] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP0sqRMzkwo
any known problems with ubuntu and files > 4G? nautilus mc and co all fail saying file too large on 3 different very large (>20g & empty ) partitions.
i'm in #ubuntu now asking
what are you doing? what is the partition type?
fdisk -l ( <--- that's an L )
fdisk -l yields nothing, sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda shows they are 83 linux, thats all the info, stock ubuntu 8.04 from live cd here
sudo fdisk -l
that says /dev/sdc1 is fat32, thats not the partition i'm talking about, they are all 83 linux
what are you doing?
i've made a ddvd image from a toc & and a bin using ubuntu's Brasero, then since Brasero cant burn a toc & bin, made an iso with toc2cue, then bchunk. that createa 4.2g file that ubuntu cant move around.
i need to move the file to WXP cuz Brasero supplied with 8.04 sux and fails to recognize any large media ( now bug)
known bug by Braser devs
so, to move it, have to use linux ( linux can see NTFS as you said but not vs:vs )
hell, i'm gonna burn the iso file to a dvd as a FILE, then read FILE on XP, then burn IMAGE on XP
aha! braser coulnt burn th file as a file either
"File /meia/ddisk-4/blah.iso is larger than 4Gib-1
there IS some goofy file size limit
"there is no way to represent this file size"
ok cdrecord sez 4458053632 read & written, 2176784 sectors, no bitches closing it. (i hope i hope i hope ...)
bye 4 now
ok, crecord burned the 4.2g iso img create by bchunk, and no complaints/errs. XP sees it ok, a thourough file compare not done yet. file sizes and tree ok tho. and there is a 4g limit on iso (depending on sector size)
heh, the cadcamedmdro newsletter has a 'wired edm' for sale
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
A quick AXIS question: Checking the "Override Limits" box in the manual tab causes an EMC_AXIS_OVERRIDE_LIMITS message to be sent. How does AXIS decide to clear the "Override limits" checkbox? What status item is it watching?
I think you can only set it when you're on a limit
so I guess it clears it when you jogged off the limit
task does it -- you get one jog only
OK, I'll try that. I know it seems obvious, but strangley, with a hal file I made, it is cleared instantly.
if you are not on any limit, it will not operate
it *should* be greyed out in AXIS
I still think there's a bug lurking where it doesn't always grey out
you mean grayed out when not on a limit?
ok, I'll look at that, Thanks!
scstemp is now known as steve_stallings
[19:03:14] <alex_joni> http://www.visp-sports.com/web-obd-4.jpg
alex_joni: they surely wouldnt notice if just *one* pallet went missing...
alex_joni: my emc started to run with 22.214.171.124 + rtai 3.7 + gcc 4.3.2 after I added the RTAI's Module.symvers into the kernel's Module.symvers and recompiled it
but I don't know what is the correct way to do this
maybe some changes in emc Makefile
there is $(KDIR)/Module.symvers in src/Makefile.modinc.in. is this the kernel dir or RTAI dir?
acemi: didn't depmod rebuild the Module.symvers?
seb_kuzminsky: I'd settle for waaay less :)
after to compile RTAI, I didn't run depmod manually
maybe that would make it work (installing the rtai-modules deb probably does that for you)
BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[Global Notice] Hi all, I'm about to take services down for an upgrade, this means that for the duration of the downtime the network will be without our friends NickServ, ChanServ and so forth -- the upgrade shouldn't take long, but feel free to cross fingers and toes for luck regardless! I'm sorry for the inconvenience and hope you have a nice Sunday!
[Global Notice] Hi again everyone, that went a lot smoother than the LHC, and as with the hadron collider no black holes have appeared! Normal Services may now commence (ok, that was a poor joke, even for me)! Apologies for the inconvenience, thank you for using freenode and have a good evening.
good night all
on page24 of EMC integrator manual, the link for FixingSMIIssues does not link properly
good night alex_joni
rob which manual 2.2.x or 2.3?
i just chcked latest on webby and it same as my compiled
it adds || to end of link
also, the max jitter info just above link, says that is 17894ns but there is no value in screen shot showing that value, where does it come from? might over looked something
yea, I've been updating the images a lot lately
aah ri, the docs are looking real good now must say
* BigJohnT now has the bore solvent off his hands and can go look :)
some info on what to do with latency test resolt if you dont use stepper config might be nice
I think that is in another section...
I can't belive how fouled this barrel is... I'm still getting the lead out
BigJohnT: what kind of barrel?
rob: I gott'er fixed... took two tries :/ thanks
jmkasunich: Dan Wesson .357
thx, ill update my cvs
rob: I added a link to the stepper tuning chapter
* BigJohnT heads up out of the beer cave to light a fire to cook meat on :)
say goodnight Gracie
yay, got my car fixed finally
6? hours of work to replace a microswitch
where was the switch?
in the door latch/lock/solenoid
for a long time it was in the can't-tell-the-door-is-open state, which was only a minor pain (set off the alarm with me sitting in it, no dome light)
but lately it was randomly-sensing-open-or-closed which was much worse
(the constant OH NO YOU ARE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD WITH THE DOOR OPEN alarms)
I'm glad my truck has a bare minimum of that stuff
the radio did not drown it out - believe me I tried
yeah it's SO complex
the window motor has 30 wires going to it (really)
my window motor has one hand going to it
I really like electric locks and windows... when they work
the dealer would have replaced the entire assembly because they would not have JB-welded a new switch to it... probably $500 repair or more. I spent $4.99 on it.
and 6 hours - at whatever you value that time
right, I value that time a lot less than $495.01
I first read 6? as 67
O thought that was a bit excessive
not even this car is that bad
to replace the headlight bulbs, you have to take off everything in front of the front wheels.
my minivan was more or less the same way
every repair has been like that so far.
what make? (so I can avoid it)
and the cost of the lens assembly was around $350 also
Plymouth - you can't help but avoid it :)
SWPadnos: this was to replace the bulbs, not the lenses
just to rub it in - the time to install my $72 taillight was about 15 mins
I bet your thermostat is on top, too
one of hte bulbs was easy to replace. the other required removal of the battery and power distribution center
so I only replaced one
my car has reached its "things starting to go wrong" age
never had occasion to look for the t-stat
I really think the basic pickup is the last stand of the simple, affordable car
I think it's hard to find a normal-cab pickup now
they are all stretched monstrosities
they're out there, but you have to look hard (or order)
the monstrosities are more profitable, so that's what they make
I was just wondering where the slack goes when people stop buying new cars. mechanics or auto parts stores? someone must be doing better than average.
the "I need a new car every X years" thing represents total waste - that expense doesn't go elsewhere when people hold onto cars longer, it just goes away
(most of it anyway - I agree there will be some increase in maintenence expenses)
yeah maybe maintenance is so small compared to unnecessary new cars that it's unnoticeable
I doubt he's here, he's on vacation
may be you can help?
hard to say
I've got russian translation of axis updated, I've tried to send it to jepler, with no feedback (vacation?)
he will get it when he gets back (tuesday, I think?)
it will be in plenty of time for the 2.3 release, thank you for doing it
you worked from cvs trunk right?
there are a lot of new strings that will be in 2.3 I bet.
one more issue: I believe there is a typo in interpret.py arc_feed() -- offsets for second and third planes are just copied from first case -- seems to be wrong...