#emc | Logs for 2009-02-21

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[00:15:28] <JymmmEMC> topls64: Read this excellent writeup http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?StepMotorWireIdentification
[00:15:33] <LawrenceG> topls64, I have just been playing with a m57-83
[00:16:48] <LawrenceG> topls64, I has 18 ohm coils (very bad for high speed) about 100rpm was all I could get with a 40v drive
[00:18:07] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: WGR614L is what you have?
[00:19:06] <LawrenceG> no wgt634u router
[00:19:28] <JymmmEMC> oh, ok
[00:20:22] <LawrenceG> topls64, looks like your motor is 3.3A in series mode and 6.6a in parallel mode according to the oem750 manual
[00:20:39] <topls64> the wiring and elec spacs aren't the issue. Before connect anything, I want to know what the S means in the part # S51-57
[00:20:46] <topls64> Yes i know
[00:21:18] <LawrenceG> topls64, but measure to make sure the coild resistance is low (like 0.5ohm).... the 750 manual lead me astray on my motor
[00:21:55] <topls64> The S could just be a date code for all I know right now.
[00:22:31] <LawrenceG> is there a number on it like OS21A?
[00:22:51] <topls64> S51-57 and a serial
[00:23:53] <topls64> I'm inclinded to beleave it doesn't really matter what it means
[00:26:22] <JymmmEMC> topls64: http://www.parkermotion.com/manuals/s-sx/s/S_chp4_h.pdf
[00:26:58] <topls64> outstanding
[00:29:34] <LawrenceG> good find jymm
[00:29:52] <JymmmEMC> Thanks, but I just googled it
[00:30:13] <topls64> Spent hours the other day looking for that info. You google better than me. Now someone tell me to hook it up.
[00:30:48] <Guest708> join emc-devel
[00:30:50] <Guest708> heh
[00:31:03] <Guest708> Guest708 is now known as skunkworks_
[00:31:11] <JymmmEMC> topls64: take half the wires and connect to the hot side of 220VAC mains, take the other hald of the wires and connect to neutral side of 220vac mains, hit the switch!
[00:31:26] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC runs like hell!
[00:31:42] <topls64> you don't want my code. Trust me. I only have 120 here in the shop. Sorry,
[00:31:47] <JymmmEMC> Oh, step 1) Get Fire Extinguishers. Step 2) see above
[00:32:09] <topls64> But If I toast the house I get a new one and can stop remodeling.
[00:32:11] <JymmmEMC> topls64: stove or dryer
[00:32:27] <topls64> gas stove and dryer
[00:32:39] <topls64> I'll just open the breaker box.
[00:32:47] <JymmmEMC> topls64: I was jsut gonna say that
[00:32:51] <topls64> or pull the meter
[00:34:12] <topls64> 480 @ work ;)
[00:38:05] <LawrenceG> yay... stepper setup has passed 5 cycles of tort.ngc
[00:38:29] <topls64> thats a fun one ;)
[00:38:49] <skunkworks_> LawrenceG: what was the issue?
[00:39:04] <LawrenceG> a very good test to detect resonance problems, lots of direction changes
[00:39:44] <LawrenceG> skunkworks_, I had the top speed too high and every once and a while it would lock up for a move
[00:39:55] <skunkworks_> ah - nice
[00:39:55] <LawrenceG> (stall)
[00:40:41] <LawrenceG> mounted it stays much cooler as well.... big chunk of AL its bolted too acts as a nice heatsink for the motor
[00:41:11] <LawrenceG> motor is just warm to the touch instead of too hot to hold
[00:42:51] <topls64> good. should be warm-hot not so hot it hurts
[00:44:14] <LawrenceG> yes... kind of what I was looking for.... the parker drives seem to use peak current and the motors specify rms current
[00:46:08] <topls64> really. I'll have to look at mine
[00:47:40] <LawrenceG> as long as one is microstepping the drive it makes a difference, but unless one is really pushing the motor for max, its nice to have a little headroom so the smoke doesnt leak out
[00:48:54] <topls64> I'll have to look. Just setup microstepping the other day. I will invertigate next time I'm working on it. Waht the driver temp on the zaxis too, once you start milling...
[00:50:05] <topls64> Mine would overheat, as the z was locked in position durring milling horizontal stuff. Pulling full current out of the oem650, I assume.
[00:50:58] <LawrenceG> cool.... I just found the manual for the M57-83 motor on the parker site --- These are high inductance motors. Upgrading the motor requires an upgrade of the drive as well. Specs and dimensions can be found in the M Drive User Guide.
[00:51:04] <JymmmEMC> Um, make sure you are using the correct resistor on the OEM650
[00:51:19] <topls64> sure am
[00:51:52] <topls64> at the time it was just sitting on a pile of AL as a sink. Not real efficient
[00:51:58] <JymmmEMC> make sure you have the jumpers/switches set currectly yoo
[00:52:16] <topls64> just started tuning them the other day.
[00:52:30] <topls64> its getting there...
[00:52:36] <JymmmEMC> tuning? OEM650 is stepper driver, what's to tune?
[00:53:14] <topls64> the microstepping, harmonics, the 2 pots on top, etc
[00:53:31] <JymmmEMC> is the drive heatsinked?
[00:53:40] <topls64> is now
[00:53:44] <JymmmEMC> heh
[00:53:59] <topls64> 1*4*14
[00:54:03] <topls64> inches
[00:55:36] <topls64> speaking of the oem series,,, about to connect a 750 to the stepper/slide for my mini edm ;)
[00:56:18] <LawrenceG> I sure like the oem750.... have 5 drives now
[00:57:08] <LawrenceG> I am not sure how they compare to a gecko (other than 1/3 the price on the surplus market)
[00:57:47] <topls64> I have the 750 and a 650 on the mill z, x & y are nice compact CMD-260 s by American Precision Industries (defunct?)
[00:58:38] <topls64> I'm gunna control the 750 with an avr microcontroller; curious to c how that goes.
[01:00:01] <LawrenceG> 3 of my drives had the X option, an extra board that has smarts on it to be a standalone controller
[01:02:25] <topls64> jerk ;)
[01:02:29] <topls64> the indexer
[01:03:13] <LawrenceG> yea... I pulled them out, added 5 mini jumpers and now its a standard oem750 drive
[01:04:05] <LawrenceG> the indexers are of no use for cnc, as one cannot do interaxis co-ordination
[01:04:18] <topls64> true
[01:04:47] <LawrenceG> might be fun for a robot project or similar
[01:04:53] <topls64> my boss was looking fro drive(s) with indexers
[01:05:34] <topls64> for some contraption at work
[01:07:43] <topls64> make an anamatronic christmas display or something. I loike that they use serial for the i/o
[01:13:21] <LawrenceG> yes, that is handy for some projects..... hmmm just had stepgen fault on a following error.... maybe not enough accell headroom... tort.ngc is a workout!
[01:15:34] <LawrenceG> hey guys its happy hour on the west coast
[01:17:06] <topls64> midwest ;(
[01:18:54] <LawrenceG> ok JymmmEMC its up to you and me
[01:23:21] <topls64> chug! chug! chug!
[01:38:05] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: what's that?
[01:42:09] <eric_unterhausen> I wanna buy that cave that's for sale on ebay
[01:43:00] <eric_unterhausen> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330306913609
[01:43:16] <eric_unterhausen> awesome machine shop potential if you could dehumidify it
[01:52:02] <LawrenceG> very cool!
[01:55:06] <topls64> pretty sweet
[01:55:31] <maddash> EMC2 ON GUMSTIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
[01:55:41] <eric_unterhausen> maddash, are you serious?
[01:55:56] <eric_unterhausen> seems doable
[01:56:00] <maddash> serious about the idea? hell yeah
[01:56:08] <maddash> need to port emc to arm, though
[01:56:18] <eric_unterhausen> does rtai work?
[01:56:26] <maddash> lemme google
[01:56:28] <eric_unterhausen> we did discuss this a few weeks back
[01:56:39] <maddash> really?
[01:56:42] <maddash> !log
[01:56:44] <maddash> !bookmark
[01:56:55] <maddash> !mark
[01:57:00] <maddash> geez
[01:57:08] <maddash> what's the #emc archive url ?
[01:57:16] <topls64> that would be great if it can be done. greatly simplifies my current project
[01:57:23] <eric_unterhausen> I don't know if you'd learn anything
[01:57:24] <archivist> logger_emc: bookmark
[01:57:24] <archivist> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-02-21.txt
[01:59:31] <eric_unterhausen> topls64: what do you want to do that would be easier with emc on a gumstix?
[01:59:54] <topls64> I was gunna desktop emc controled via AVR
[02:00:10] <topls64> avr -> oem750-> stepr
[02:00:41] <topls64> avr would also have user io, settings. graphic lcd, pwr supply control
[02:00:46] <maddash> ok, so step one would be to get rtai working on gumstix
[02:01:05] <topls64> if it were to go that route
[02:01:09] <eric_unterhausen> or porting the hal api
[02:01:47] <topls64> I was just about to hookup my new stepper slide to the 750 and have some emc fun
[02:02:32] <topls64> mind you, my c programming abilities are limited
[02:03:01] <topls64> (I am by no means a programmer)
[02:03:14] <eric_unterhausen> this would be a bit of a hurdle then
[02:03:21] <topls64> yup
[02:04:07] <topls64> this may not realate, but my programming buddy want to do spartan3
[02:04:26] <eric_unterhausen> I want to do that myself
[02:04:32] <maddash> gumstix are way more durable/rugged than pcs
[02:04:44] <maddash> in an industrial setting especially
[02:05:05] <eric_unterhausen> I don't see gumstix as being very rugged, the mechanical design is a bit flimsy
[02:05:46] <topls64> would they make a rugged version if they had a demand?
[02:06:13] <eric_unterhausen> doubt it
[02:06:32] <eric_unterhausen> we are putting one in a fairly small robot
[02:06:56] <eric_unterhausen> the grad student working on it had a case made
[02:08:07] <maddash> if gumstix's are flimsy, then a microcontroller version of emc needs to be designed
[02:08:36] <eric_unterhausen> beagle board may be better
[02:10:52] <maddash> beagle board runs on omap, right?
[02:11:14] <eric_unterhausen> yes, must be nearly the same as the new gumstix
[02:11:20] <maddash> sweet
[02:29:22] <maddash> my brother won't play his piano. should his parents whack him?
[02:29:42] <eric_unterhausen> whose idea was the piano?
[02:30:46] <maddash> nvm. he's embarrassed.
[02:46:38] <fenn> beagleboard is definitely overkill
[02:46:55] <fenn> but i'd help (if i knew how)
[02:48:56] <eric_unterhausen> fenn: holding back, as usual
[02:49:28] <fenn> damn, he uncovered my past as an embedded/DSP programmer
[02:50:02] <eric_unterhausen> I dunno if you even need dsp/embedded experience for this
[02:50:59] <fenn> i dont even know asm, how am i supposed to port realtime code
[02:51:10] <eric_unterhausen> realtime is all in c
[02:51:36] <fenn> i recall some fluff about RTDSC instruction only on x86 processsors
[02:51:43] <fenn> being the stumbling block to porting to ARM
[02:53:58] <eric_unterhausen> I dunno, looks like rtai works on arm since 2003?
[03:10:56] <maddash> fenn: overkill?
[03:11:07] <maddash> fenn: overkill how?
[03:11:34] <fenn> costs too much, too many features that aren't relevant
[03:12:39] <fenn> perhaps i'm .. uh.. not-spoiled, the computer i'm on was $65
[03:13:32] <fenn> anyway there are ARM chips for <$20 that should be able to do the job adequately
[03:13:53] <fenn> surely someone makes a board with one of those chips
[03:19:05] <maddash> ooh, really?
[03:19:43] <maddash> the interp code requires some appreciable degree of computing power
[03:21:05] <fenn> why's that?
[03:21:58] <maddash> have you seen it?
[03:23:00] <fenn> this is about right, unfortunately their prices havent changed in five years: http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7200
[03:31:48] <SWPadnos> no FPU on that one either
[03:32:01] <fenn> does any arm9 have an fpu?
[03:32:04] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:32:08] <SWPadnos> Cirrus Logic has some
[03:32:13] <SWPadnos> and I think there are others
[03:32:20] <SWPadnos> they could be ARM11 though, I'm not sure
[03:34:02] <maddash> [sigh]
[03:34:32] <fenn> is FPU absolutely necessary? i thought you could do it in software
[03:36:26] <SWPadnos> doing floating point math in software on a 200MHz CPU probably wouldn't be fast enough to run the TP and PID
[03:36:36] <SWPadnos> let alone anything other than trivkins
[04:00:58] <maddash> it would be really helpful if emc could work in fixed point
[04:04:12] <JymmmEMC> vector graphics have always been floats
[04:06:21] <UncleGemc> I finally got my 1970 something servo running with my parport :)
[04:07:12] <UncleGemc> SWPadnos: might you be around this evening?
[04:07:24] <SWPadnos> in a minute
[04:07:39] <maddash> fixed point!!!!!!
[04:08:59] <UncleGemc> I would be interested in someones hal file for a parport servo setup
[04:12:49] <SWPadnos> take a look at the etch-servo demo config
[04:13:01] <UncleGemc> thats what im using.
[04:13:17] <UncleGemc> however it seems to only run my drive in one direction
[04:13:37] <SWPadnos> I don't think another demo config, if one exists, would help with that
[04:13:54] <UncleGemc> I looked at various demos and none seem to help
[04:14:07] <UncleGemc> I tried the pwmgen up/down and still no luck
[04:14:09] <SWPadnos> a parallel port doesn't have enough I/O bits to run a mill with servos (at least not if you want to get encoder feedback from all 3+ axes)
[04:14:18] <UncleGemc> one axis.
[04:14:30] <SWPadnos> post your hal file on http://pastebin.ca
[04:14:36] <SWPadnos> so we can look at it
[04:15:06] <cradek> did you somehow hook a parport to your +-10v input servo amp?
[04:16:01] <UncleGemc> http://pastebin.ca/1343450
[04:16:04] <UncleGemc> yah
[04:16:29] <cradek> sounds like not a hal problem then
[04:16:32] <UncleGemc> I can get it to drive through mdi and move it .100 with jog
[04:16:38] <UncleGemc> nothing much else
[04:17:04] <SWPadnos> you will need external circuitry to generate negative voltages
[04:17:21] <SWPadnos> and also to scale the parallel port output to a 20V range (or even a 10V range)
[04:17:42] <SWPadnos> without extra hardware, you can only get 0 to 1/2 speed in one direction (0-5V)
[04:17:48] <UncleGemc> I see
[04:17:51] <cradek> even then you will not be successful getting good motion
[04:18:01] <cradek> you need a servo interface to do real servo work
[04:18:07] <UncleGemc> Understandable
[04:18:23] <cradek> the parport is just too slow (and therefore has low pwm resolution)
[04:19:40] <SWPadnos> huh. using PDM or something, it should be possible to use a relatively simple 2x op-amp to get +/-10V
[04:20:34] <cradek> but how many discrete output values can you get at 1kHz?
[04:20:42] <SWPadnos> not too many
[04:20:45] <UncleGemc> I can make something out of spare parts around here to convert the voltage to - I would think
[04:21:05] <cradek> maybe 10ish?
[04:21:11] <SWPadnos> oh, way more than that
[04:21:22] <SWPadnos> more like 50 :)
[04:21:45] <SWPadnos> (assuming 20 uS base thread and 1ms servo thread)
[04:23:55] <cradek> IMO you need a faster pwm frequency than servo cycle frequency
[04:23:59] <UncleGemc> on my setup, I have the pwm set to pin 3 will just that one pin do a positive and negative wave providing I attache external hardware to it?
[04:24:41] <SWPadnos> it's theoretically possible, but as cradek says, it's not going to work very well for a servo
[04:24:48] <SWPadnos> for a spindle, it would be fine
[04:25:13] <cradek> otherwise you need a time constant of many servo cycles, and it probably won't be tunable
[04:25:27] <UncleGemc> yes, but just as before I dont have much plans for a single axis setup, I am just learning with this setup
[04:25:31] <cradek> so I'm back to thinking you might get 10ish levels (+- 5)
[04:25:42] <SWPadnos> sure, that could be
[04:25:46] <SWPadnos> (10 usable levels)
[04:26:01] <cradek> I actually ran my sherline lathe that way - it didn't tune very well but it worked
[04:26:16] <cradek> much better tunability/following with the pluto pwm
[04:26:51] <cradek> yeah for a spindle, .5 sec TC is fine, who cares
[04:26:55] <UncleGemc> will my parport do pwm-up and pwm-down effectively?
[04:27:44] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure whether the PDM mode works as you'd need
[04:27:44] <UncleGemc> pwm-up for forward and then invert the voltage for pwm-down and pin them both out to my sig in on my amp board?
[04:28:08] <SWPadnos> you would need to connect two parallel prot pins, or make a circuit that level shifts and multiplies the voltage
[04:28:12] <SWPadnos> and filters of course
[04:28:39] <SWPadnos> the PWM output is theoretically 0-5V, so you need to shift by -2.5V, then multiply by 4
[04:28:43] <UncleGemc> pdm did make my servo turn and smoothy with the stepconf setup
[04:28:56] <cradek> bbl
[04:28:59] <SWPadnos> (that was for single ended)
[04:29:02] <SWPadnos> if see you cradek
[04:29:05] <SWPadnos> -if
[04:29:45] <SWPadnos> if you use up/down PWM (I think), then you should get pulses on one pin when the value should go down, and pulses on the other pin when the value should go up
[04:30:17] <SWPadnos> since you have two pins switching state, you get a 10V total effective swing
[04:30:41] <SWPadnos> you'd connect the two parallel port pins to the + and - input of an op-amp, configured for 2x gain
[04:30:42] <UncleGemc> up worked, down caused an error, limit switch I belive
[04:30:50] <SWPadnos> that may be a HAL error
[04:31:03] <JymmmEMC> Hello Dave
[04:31:19] <SWPadnos> I'm not going to let you in
[04:31:47] <SWPadnos> UncleGemc, not limit switch, following error limit exceeded or similar
[04:32:36] <SWPadnos> actually, I'm going to go to bed early tonight. gotta start getting up early so I can catch a morning flight on Monday
[04:32:43] <SWPadnos> so good night
[04:32:49] <UncleGemc> alright
[04:32:51] <UncleGemc> thx again
[04:32:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Night
[04:33:00] <UncleGemc> g-night
[05:52:36] <topls64> for steppers, boiled down, low current = more speed?
[05:57:02] <topls64> my notes are m.i.a.
[06:03:34] <topls64> Thing is, I have a 12v/.66A and a 24v/.36 amp. I need speed not torque. OEM750 drive, 24v supply
[09:37:04] <issy> hi all
[09:38:16] <micges> hi
[09:41:51] <micges> issy: this is my GUI: http://imagebin.ca/view/fuWRd0.html
[09:42:47] <issy> nice , have you see mine
[09:43:22] <micges> yes, I saw
[09:44:26] <issy> now i have dedicated keyboard and i am working on the hardware for the motion controler based on 7i43
[09:44:47] <micges> I had to find windows to run it
[09:44:57] <micges> cool
[09:45:19] <micges> I am modifing my GUI to touch screen
[09:45:35] <issy> mine is touch screen
[09:46:32] <micges> mine is now standard keyboard controlled
[09:47:01] <issy> http://imagebin.ca/view/rd33cmw.html
[09:47:11] <micges> maybe after touch screen I will invent some dedicated keyb too
[09:47:28] <issy> 48 keys with touch and 48 leds
[09:47:40] <micges> nice
[09:47:51] <micges> what machines are you building ?
[09:50:30] <micges> we're building lasers and table mills
[09:51:19] <issy> http://imagebin.ca/view/72t-cl.html
[09:52:58] <micges> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Micges
[09:53:17] <micges> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Micges_Laser
[09:53:35] <micges> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Micges_Laser_2
[09:54:24] <issy> elte spindle , 16x80 cilinders
[09:55:36] <issy> i use to work on welded constructions as well in the past , but not any more
[09:55:49] <issy> now on aluminium , is cheaper
[09:56:47] <micges> our machines are very precise and for very hard materials, must use welded steel
[09:57:38] <micges> we have one aluminium contruction, it's making problems all the time
[09:58:23] <issy> well , i was thinking the same , but the welded tubs are more soft than the extruded aluminium
[09:58:39] <issy> and ofcource is depending on the system you are using
[09:59:12] <issy> for machines , i have made my own aluminum system and is more rigid than every welded construction
[10:00:10] <issy> the alu is cros sectiones and more thick
[10:00:49] <micges> maybe we have bad design of alu contruction, we just build it once
[10:00:57] <micges> will se in the future
[10:01:00] <micges> see*
[10:01:49] <issy> probably , the alu is another filosofy , you cannot work with it as the stel
[10:01:51] <issy> l
[10:02:08] <micges> yes
[10:02:17] <issy> what type of lasers you are using?yag or co2
[10:02:21] <micges> co2
[10:02:32] <issy> from?
[10:02:58] <micges> now from usa deutchland, COHERENT
[10:03:12] <micges> but it has many bugs in soft
[10:03:31] <micges> in a year or two we will build own laser construction
[10:03:39] <issy> yes , thats I am asking , we dont work with them anymore
[10:03:56] <issy> for the lasers , i can sugest trumpf
[10:04:12] <micges> 3 people here has 10 years experience with all types of lasers available in Poland
[10:04:59] <micges> what problems you had with coherent may I ask ?
[10:05:29] <issy> it was not working consystently
[10:05:46] <issy> and was creating plasma at the entries
[10:06:04] <micges> err what ?
[10:06:32] <issy> burning the entries
[10:06:41] <micges> in material ?
[10:07:19] <issy> steel 4 mm
[10:07:33] <micges> I see
[10:07:54] <micges> we use them rarely for steel
[10:08:04] <micges> mainly for plywood
[10:08:33] <issy> for plywood the power rising is not a problem
[10:09:00] <micges> yep
[10:09:43] <micges> we had very often turns off of the beam without any warningsd
[10:10:02] <issy> is you guy in pyton?
[10:10:15] <issy> gui
[10:10:22] <micges> yes it's heavly modified AXIS
[10:10:46] <issy> i made myne from scratch in c
[10:11:56] <issy> i wanted to publish it , but i had to modify many of the emc files and now is not compatible with the release of the emc
[10:11:59] <micges> in C it was difficult to make 3d realtime preview
[10:12:30] <issy> not realy , i dont use even opengl
[10:12:45] <micges> I was not familliar with graphics in any way
[10:12:52] <micges> but it was 2 years ago
[10:13:42] <micges> what parts of EMC you modified ?
[10:13:46] <issy> its a mather of libraryes. i use fltk 2.0 for making the gui , now is not a problem to have it on any processor platform
[10:14:45] <issy> the interpreter for the tool change procedures and subroutine calls and to 2 other files to have distance to go
[10:15:24] <issy> now i can call subroutines and interpret them
[10:15:45] <issy> and tool change with g kodes working
[10:16:19] <micges> distance to go will be in 2.3
[10:16:26] <micges> so only tool change left
[10:16:34] <micges> and calls
[10:17:06] <micges> no calls are also in 2.3
[10:17:38] <micges> earlier I had to modified 30 files of EMC to run my GUI
[10:17:51] <issy> is there changes in the hostmot for 3.0?
[10:18:00] <issy> 2.3
[10:18:03] <issy> sorr
[10:18:05] <issy> y
[10:18:26] <micges> after adding new features and removing bugs I had modified two files of oryginal EMC
[10:18:51] <micges> in 2.3 there are lot of changes in hostmot
[10:19:14] <issy> is there something i can see
[10:19:24] <micges> I'm not familliar with them
[10:19:55] <micges> read this: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/debian/changelog?rev=1.57;content-type=text%2Fplain
[10:21:13] <micges> there are new better drivers
[10:25:34] <micges> issy: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HostMot2
[10:26:18] <micges> issy: and this http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[10:26:25] <issy> thanks a lot
[10:26:33] <micges> sure
[10:30:32] <micges> bbl
[10:54:03] <issy> bbl
[13:09:47] <tomp> i think matt shaver was looking into gumstix a couple years ago, when he did the tiny emc install
[13:39:33] <motioncontrol> good morning.i want sottract two float value.exist in emc one component for sottract the floating value?
[13:46:27] <BigJohnT> do you mean subtract?
[13:49:12] <motioncontrol> yes subtract two float number
[13:49:24] <motioncontrol> i see the sum2
[13:49:53] <BigJohnT> hmmm looking
[13:50:10] <motioncontrol> if not exist i modification the sum2 , change the + whith -
[13:50:58] <BigJohnT> I only see sum2 myself...
[13:52:10] <motioncontrol> if i modification the sum2 , is necessary compile emc for fuction new component?
[13:53:31] <BigJohnT> I would think so... why not copy and rename sum2 to sub2 or something then change the new one
[13:54:55] <motioncontrol> ok i prove it.thanks for help
[14:00:37] <tomp> look at this, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HowToWriteNewHalComponent and this attempt http://pastebin.ca/1343672
[14:00:57] <tomp> i didnt test
[14:03:50] <motioncontrol> ok thanks tomp for help i study first and after prove the solution
[14:12:56] <BigJohnT> hi tomp I modified sum2 to this http://pastebin.ca/1343677 why did you use math.h in your example?
[14:13:30] <tomp> it was in the sample in the wiki, and subtract is math
[14:14:23] <BigJohnT> hmmm seems to work for me without math.h :)
[14:15:11] <BigJohnT> I see the example uses advanced math stuff like floor
[14:15:18] <tomp> i thought it was rtapimath, np, what works , works
[14:15:52] <BigJohnT> yea, I was just wondering aloud
[14:17:49] <tomp> in my fuzzy memory, this has come up before, and it was suggested to negate one term and use add ( damifino theres a negate for floats tho ) that technique is common in hal
[14:21:12] <tomp> oh and be prepared to handle negative answers. if you know nothing of the inputs, thats a 50/50 chance.
[14:22:12] <BigJohnT> yep
[14:25:20] <BigJohnT> negative numbers seem to work...
[14:25:58] <tomp> so you can use it to add ;)
[14:36:00] <SWPadnos> you can also scale a number by -1 and then add it (using scale and sum2)
[14:36:46] <BigJohnT> that's sneaky SWPadnos
[14:36:58] <SWPadnos> I thought of it as math :)
[14:37:11] <SWPadnos> a-b = a + (-b) :)
[14:38:04] <BigJohnT> but I run out of toes before I get done :)
[14:38:21] <SWPadnos> for you, a and b must be below 10
[14:38:45] <tomp> "´╗┐negate one term and use add"
[14:39:23] <SWPadnos> yes, that sounds equivalent :)
[14:39:34] <archivist> pull a toe nail for a carry to fingers
[14:42:07] <dareposte> Hello all, I have a question about emc2 for my lathe.. specifically the G7X canned cycles and if they are supported
[14:43:53] <dareposte> just happened to be reading through a CNC programming book and came across a few that I didn't see in the EMC documentation, G70=finish turning autocycle, G71=Rough turning autocycle , G73=Repeat Pattern
[14:44:54] <tomp> how to count to 99 on 10 fingers, http://www.beijingmadeeasy.com/practical-beijing/chinese-finger-counting one hand is 'ones', other hand is tens, jo jo is 99 (two bent index fingers )
[14:46:13] <dareposte> no problem, i can count to 1024 on my 10 fingers
[14:46:15] <dareposte> :)
[14:46:52] <dareposte> over a million if i pull my toes out
[14:47:21] <tomp> dareposte: theres loads on notuniversal gcodes, every cnc maker invents some . ah binary toes eh?
[14:48:05] <dareposte> yeah i would have assumed its not implemented if its not documented, but I couldn't find any documentation for G7 either and it appears to work, so I thought I'd ask
[14:48:48] <dareposte> whoops not G7, i made that up
[14:49:15] <tomp> i was just going to the docs to look up g7
[14:51:11] <dareposte> oh no it is G7, use diameter mode for the lathe
[14:51:44] <dareposte> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode.html
[14:51:55] <SWPadnos> G7 and G8 were recently added
[14:51:58] <dareposte> there's the doc's I use on the web, seems to be the most recent type
[14:52:13] <dareposte> oh cool, maybe I can update the docs for them then
[14:52:19] <dareposte> do you know what G8 does?
[14:52:46] <SWPadnos> they're not in 2.2.8, only in TRUNK, which will be released as 2.3
[14:52:59] <SWPadnos> G7 and G8 switch between radius and diameter mode
[14:53:05] <dareposte> great
[14:53:58] <dareposte> have you heard of the G71-75 cycles? I was reading in a "learn cnc programming" book and they seem like they would be pretty useful
[14:54:29] <SWPadnos> I don't know enough about g-code in general to comment :)
[14:54:32] <dareposte> they may be fanuc specific, I know emc isn't super popular for lathes
[14:55:22] <dareposte> tomp thinks they are non-universal maybe, but I have seen them in several references
[14:55:50] <dareposte> not a big deal since any decent CAM software can do just the same as the codes do, but I don't usually bother with cam yet
[14:57:10] <SWPadnos> the only G7x I see in the manual is G76, threading
[14:57:25] <dareposte> yeah
[14:57:36] <SWPadnos> but I'm not looking in the devel docs. I don't recall exactly how to get there
[14:57:40] <dareposte> i will assume that is all that is currently supported for the moment, it's all I saw
[14:58:02] <dareposte> I seem to remember G74 / z axis peck drilling was being added
[14:58:07] <dareposte> but didn't see it either
[14:58:15] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel//html/
[14:58:35] <SWPadnos> 4.6 and 4.7 describe G7/G8
[14:59:06] <tomp> devel// ??
[14:59:17] <tomp> whazzat?
[14:59:22] <SWPadnos> no biggie, multiple slashesare allowed
[14:59:27] <SWPadnos> slashes are
[14:59:40] <alex_joni> hi all
[14:59:45] <dareposte> hi alex
[14:59:53] <tomp> hello alex
[15:00:13] <dareposte> SWPadnos: thanks, I will update my doc link
[15:00:23] <SWPadnos> that's for the TRUNK version only
[15:00:28] <BigJohnT> hi alex_joni
[15:00:35] <SWPadnos> if you don't compile for yourself, don't update the link
[15:00:49] <dareposte> i DID
[15:01:06] <dareposte> I did compile the head version, which is why I guess M7/8 worked for me
[15:01:18] <SWPadnos> tomp, kind of a funny thing - I got a "you will be dropped from this list due to excessive bounces" message a few days ago (for emc-commit)
[15:01:29] <SWPadnos> dareposte, ok, then update your link ;)
[15:01:52] <dareposte> I don't see the G74 cycle in there though, so I guess i was only daydreaming about that
[15:02:02] <SWPadnos> G73 is there, drill cycle
[15:02:11] <tomp> remember the kingston trio 'zombie wife"? right now bmoviedrivein is showing boris karlov in 'the snake people' and a french guy just bought a zombiw wife, got her all dressed up in white.. weird
[15:02:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:02:40] <tomp> btw i dont get the mail either , must be true!
[15:02:51] <SWPadnos> I remember the Kingston Trio (even though I'm not really that old), but I don't know any of ther songs
[15:03:05] <SWPadnos> there was a link in the email to go and re-enable your account
[15:03:17] <SWPadnos> s/account/subscription/
[15:03:19] <dareposte> SWPadnos: I guess G73 will work for the lathe too then, it reads like it should
[15:03:50] <tomp> in the email, cute! i'll look in old stuff, thx
[15:04:11] <SWPadnos> well, in the one you received, saying you were being dropped from the list
[15:04:31] <tomp> oh, gotcha, thats another box, thx
[15:05:01] <tomp> ( the one thats streaming bmoviedrivein )
[15:07:09] <tomp> uh, dont tune in, its in real bad taste now
[15:07:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:07:18] <SWPadnos> don't worry
[15:07:35] <SWPadnos> actually, I need to prepare for a trip. I'm heading about halfway to your location on Monday
[15:07:58] <tomp> halway is very very wet ;)
[15:08:13] <SWPadnos> not in a direct line ;) (Honolulu)
[15:08:24] <tomp> oh, lucky guy
[15:08:34] <SWPadnos> I agree
[15:09:05] <tomp> come to TimTos about Mar 2, see all the new cheap machines
[15:09:24] <SWPadnos> bummer, tha's when we get back home
[15:09:29] <tomp> the IMTS of Taiwan
[15:09:30] <SWPadnos> that's
[15:09:47] <SWPadnos> that would be cool (but probably a little too expensive just for the fun of it)
[15:16:34] <tomp> dang i dont have that email!.
[15:16:53] <SWPadnos> do you have an SF login?
[15:17:37] <tomp> sourceforge? no
[15:17:48] <SWPadnos> hmm. ok
[15:17:53] <skunkworks> NO!
[15:17:58] <skunkworks> sorry - what is going on? ;)
[15:18:01] <SWPadnos> I think someone re-enabled you, but I'm not positive
[15:18:18] <SWPadnos> I guess I could check, I might be a list admin :)
[15:18:32] <tomp> thx, isnt ther a way to browse the list on the web? ( ican save all that eeprom space :)
[15:18:44] <SWPadnos> there are several
[15:19:06] <SWPadnos> there are the sourceforge archives, and there's a list at gmane
[15:19:59] <SWPadnos> http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.linux.distributions.emc
[15:20:57] <tomp> ah,,thx now at gmane & wondering how to find this stuff
[15:21:05] <SWPadnos> damned if I know :)
[15:21:37] <tomp> damifino thats from a client in ohio, i didnt catch on for quite a while
[15:21:52] <SWPadnos> yep, "damfino"
[15:22:27] <skunkworks> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user
[15:22:57] <SWPadnos> there is a search box at the bottom
[15:23:11] <alex_joni> which works horribly ;)
[15:23:19] <skunkworks> I don't think I am awake yet..
[15:23:20] <SWPadnos> we really should stick these gmane addresses in the footer of all the emails
[15:23:36] <SWPadnos> I haven't had great success with gmane, but ymmv
[15:23:45] <skunkworks> hmm - you can find them from the contact page on linuxcnc
[15:23:57] <SWPadnos> yes, that's true
[15:23:59] <tomp> at the bottom... on an eeepc thats about 3 text lines below ;)
[15:24:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:24:12] <SWPadnos> rotate the screen ;)
[15:24:45] <SWPadnos> that's one of the goals for "Karmic Koala" - to make it work better on netbook screens
[15:26:25] <tomp> i have a hack kit to flip the lcd, view thru a hole in the cover, and overlay a touchscreen, but never got around to it. makes it a teeny tablet.
[15:26:43] <SWPadnos> huh. cool
[15:27:55] <alex_joni> then you can use it as a touchpad for a regular laptop :)
[15:28:18] <SWPadnos> almost. it would be a little small
[15:28:52] <tomp> yeh, a small input device is a good use for it
[15:29:34] <tomp> ok, thx, i now have access to the mail via gmane, and can head back to johns new hal pdf.
[16:15:04] <alex_joni> acemi: hi
[16:15:07] <alex_joni> any luck?
[16:22:13] <acemi> hi acemi, I can't try yet
[16:22:17] <acemi> hi alex_joni
[16:23:30] <alex_joni> heh, ok
[16:51:17] <seb_kuzminsky> hi acemi, i saw your make output the other day and i fixed the hostmot2 driver so it should work without warning with 2.6.27 and up
[16:52:58] <acemi> seb_kuzminsky: I can post the new output after to compile again
[16:53:06] <seb_kuzminsky> ok
[17:19:03] <motioncontrol> Good evening.I want one subtract componebt,but i thing not is in emc.I want modification the sum2 component and rename sub2. the new component to do compile for use it?
[17:36:11] <seb_kuzminsky> motioncontrol: why not just sum with a negative number?
[17:36:38] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: you can set gain to -1, and use sum2
[17:38:11] <motioncontrol> ok very interesting option
[17:38:55] <motioncontrol> i set -1 the gain0 and gain 1 ?
[17:39:04] <alex_joni> gain1 = 1
[17:39:17] <alex_joni> a - b = a + (-1)*b
[17:39:29] <alex_joni> so gain for a is 1, gain for b is -1
[17:41:45] <motioncontrol> ok thanks alex.i want subtract the real velocity spindle encoder with velocity command spindle and use the wcomp for compare the differenz output the subtract and set at 0 or 1 the spindle-at-speed pin
[17:42:32] <alex_joni> sounds good
[17:44:52] <motioncontrol> i write at Chris the classicladder project for correct the classicladder.0.floatou-xx.Because the float not is floatout but integer
[17:45:40] <motioncontrol> i thing the use the solution the moltiplication for 1000 and divide for 1000 after
[17:45:58] <alex_joni> sounds like a bug to me
[17:46:15] <motioncontrol> yes one bug
[17:47:01] <motioncontrol> alex one licenze question.with emc is possible retrofit more maschine or there are the licenze problem?
[17:48:36] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: I don't understand that question
[17:49:25] <alex_joni> you can distribute emc2 freely under the GPL v2 license
[17:49:30] <alex_joni> (just like you do with linux)
[17:49:37] <motioncontrol> if i want use the emc for retrofit or costruction new maschine , there are the licenze problem ?
[17:49:38] <alex_joni> you can install/run it on as many machines as you want
[17:50:00] <alex_joni> no, the only problem is if you want to have your own code compiled together with emc2
[17:50:04] <motioncontrol> ok very interesting this project
[17:50:11] <alex_joni> if your code is not GPL-compatible, then it's not allowed
[17:50:30] <alex_joni> (depending on the way your code and emc2 are linked..)
[17:52:15] <motioncontrol> ok , i thing want use emc for retrofit some maschine
[17:52:19] <alex_joni> bbl
[17:54:02] <motioncontrol> but this maschine is particolar and the customer want the gui interface modification.If in the future i modification the gui interface (exmpla axis or tkemc) and use the emc , there are the problem?
[17:54:31] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: not as long as your modifications fall under the GPL
[17:54:48] <alex_joni> so if someone asks for the code for the modified GUI, you have to make it available
[17:56:24] <motioncontrol> ok i understand
[17:59:23] <motioncontrol> i have one good customer for buid more maschine , and i want propose custum cnc ( emc with gui modification)
[17:59:56] <motioncontrol> but i don't have in this moment the known for modification the gui
[18:00:55] <motioncontrol> i thing is more simple modification tkemc , it is write only in tcl, but axis is write in python and tcl
[18:01:12] <motioncontrol> axis is more beathiful
[18:03:18] <motioncontrol> the labview gui is first experiment for gui modification , but not is more integrated in emc.your thing is more simple modification axis or tkemc?
[18:06:03] <motioncontrol> alex i return after in my city is carneval , and i go my cildren at see the carnival.i read your reply after, not shutdown the pc.thanks for all
[18:09:30] <bglackin> Howdy Folks - I am using an oword routine with local coordinates. While milling, the tool broke off. I need to replace the tool and reset my cutting
[18:09:51] <bglackin> SInce I am in the middle of a loop, is there a way to restart this back at the last part cutout?
[18:16:32] <bglackin> I was cutting 5 identical parts - tool broke early on second one, I discovered problem somewhere in the middle of the third part path (no damage to material at all).
[18:27:43] <acemi> seb_kuzminsky: http://paste.debian.net/28911/ this is the new make result for 2.6.28.2-rtai + gcc 4.3.2
[18:28:10] <acemi> 2 warnings for hostmod2
[18:29:15] <seb_kuzminsky> acemi: which gcc version are you using? 4.3 or 4.4 i bet
[18:29:32] <acemi> gcc 4.3.2
[18:29:52] <seb_kuzminsky> that one catches several warning conditions and error conditions that earlier gcc's miss
[18:29:59] <eric_unterhausen> they need a -turn_snooty_warnings_off switch
[18:30:04] <seb_kuzminsky> i *really* wish we had a gcc 4.3 buildslave
[18:30:12] <seb_kuzminsky> eric_unterhausen: no, older gccs need to be upgraded ;-)
[18:30:18] <seb_kuzminsky> those snooty warnings kick ass
[18:31:31] <eric_unterhausen> what is a pointer qualifier?
[18:32:02] <seb_kuzminsky> it's an annotation attached to a pointer that says what that pointer can and can't do
[18:32:27] <eric_unterhausen> like const?
[18:32:42] <seb_kuzminsky> in the warning acemi pasted, i had said that a pointer qualified as "const" ("unchanging") be assigned to another pointer *not* qualified as const
[18:32:48] <seb_kuzminsky> exactly
[18:33:10] <seb_kuzminsky> so someone says "here, have a pointer but dont change what it's pointing to"
[18:33:32] <seb_kuzminsky> and the recipient saves a copy of that pointer in another pointer variable that *doesnt* have the const qualifier
[18:33:36] <seb_kuzminsky> sound sketchy? yes
[18:34:06] <seb_kuzminsky> in this case it's not actually causing any trouble, but it's nice that the compiler pointed out an inconsistency in how i was thinking about my pointers :-)
[18:34:45] <archivist> and all the coder moan, my sloppy code was alright before
[18:35:07] <eric_unterhausen> that's when you forget to take out the classname:: in your header file
[18:35:11] <eric_unterhausen> dagnabit
[18:35:47] <seb_kuzminsky> there's a big change happening in the way we write code
[18:35:59] <seb_kuzminsky> we're getting better tools for automatic code inspection
[18:36:06] <seb_kuzminsky> gcc 4.3 is a huge step forward
[18:36:22] <seb_kuzminsky> other things like valgrind and prevent are also awesome
[18:36:45] <seb_kuzminsky> but gcc is the most important, because it runs at compile-time, automatically, all the time
[18:37:06] <seb_kuzminsky> the other tools require the coder to do something... set up a special test system, and analyze the results
[18:37:09] <seb_kuzminsky> gcc ftw
[18:37:46] <archivist> porting old code and trying to get the warnings down is an eye opener
[18:37:54] <seb_kuzminsky> it sure is
[18:38:05] <seb_kuzminsky> or applying the new testing tools to old "working" code
[18:38:19] <seb_kuzminsky> i fed emc2 to prevent, and it identified almost 90 defects
[18:38:29] <seb_kuzminsky> segfaults, using uninitialized memory, etc etc
[18:38:37] <seb_kuzminsky> i fixed most of the egregious ones... ;-)
[18:38:51] <seb_kuzminsky> corner cases that our users weren't hitting, but still there
[18:38:52] <seb_kuzminsky> lurking
[18:39:01] <seb_kuzminsky> got to go
[18:39:20] <seb_kuzminsky> acemi: thanks for the gcc 4.3 runs! i want to talk to you about setting up a buildslave some day ;-)
[18:39:37] <acemi> np
[22:28:47] <acemi> alex_joni: did you try rtai-3.7-test or cureent vulcona
[22:29:48] <acemi> http://paste.debian.net/28928/ RTAI Module.symvers
[22:30:29] <acemi> http://paste.debian.net/28929/ EMC modules which gives error
[22:30:52] <acemi> both use the same name
[22:32:20] <acemi> for example there is nano2count in EMC and RTAI. is this normal?
[22:33:53] <robh_> what does dmesg show
[22:34:12] <acemi> http://paste.debian.net/28928/ this is the dmesg output
[22:34:26] <acemi> sorry http://paste.debian.net/28929/
[22:38:04] <SWPadnos> it looks like rtai_lxrt didn't get loaded
[22:38:34] <SWPadnos> 111.0xefa225c0nano2count/usr/src/modules/rtai/base/sched/rtai_lxrtEXPORT_SYMBOL
[22:38:59] <SWPadnos> but I don't see rtai_lxrt in the top 6 lines of the dmesg output
[22:39:38] <alex_joni> we don't want rtai_lxrt
[22:40:18] <SWPadnos> that seems to be the module that provides nano2count though
[22:40:28] <alex_joni> yeah, for userspace RT
[22:40:29] <SWPadnos> unless I don't know what I'm reading (which is likely) :)
[22:40:32] <SWPadnos> ah
[22:42:00] <alex_joni> it should be part of rtai_sched
[22:42:09] <alex_joni> at least that's how it looks here on rtai-3.6.1
[22:43:47] <acemi> rtai_sched is loaded
[22:44:34] <acemi> http://paste.debian.net/28933/
[22:44:40] <alex_joni> acemi: sounds like maybe it got removed from rtai_sched ?
[22:44:58] <alex_joni> acemi: any reason not to use 3.6-cv ?
[22:45:25] <acemi> to use 2.6.28
[22:46:06] <acemi> this is not very urgent problem for me
[22:46:13] <acemi> I only test it
[22:47:16] <acemi> is it possible that RTAI changes the name of this func
[22:47:39] <alex_joni> if I would understand the way Paolo organizes his CVS I would look
[22:47:52] <alex_joni> http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/?cvsroot=rtai <- that is usually puzzling
[22:51:26] <alex_joni> acemi: http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/vulcano/base/sched/sched.c?rev=1.73;cvsroot=rtai;only_with_tag=RTAI_3_7_TEST1
[22:51:34] <alex_joni> I don't see any difference from 3.6-cv
[22:52:33] <alex_joni> acemi: I remembered something.. what does rtai_sched link to?
[22:52:50] <acemi> RTAI latency test use nano2count too, it loads the same rtai modules with EMC but it don't give error
[22:53:40] <acemi> rtai_sched is not a link
[22:53:51] <alex_joni> it was a long time ago :)
[22:53:57] <alex_joni> I just checked and you're right..
[22:54:05] <alex_joni> juve@denny:/usr/realtime-2.6.22-rtai/modules$ less Module.symvers | grep nano2count
[22:54:05] <alex_joni> 0xefa225c0nano2count/home/juve/rtai/base/sched/rtai_schedEXPORT_SYMBOL
[22:54:06] <alex_joni> 0x31d92d62nano2count_cpuid/home/juve/rtai/base/sched/rtai_schedEXPORT_SYMBOL
[23:06:03] <alex_joni> acemi: check /proc/kallsyms for nano2count
[23:07:28] <acemi> when?
[23:07:37] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/1343975
[23:08:20] <acemi> when latency test is running, there is nano2count in it
[23:08:43] <alex_joni> did you see it in /proc/kallsyms ?
[23:08:53] <acemi> yes
[23:09:10] <alex_joni> did you run kern or user latency test?
[23:09:17] <acemi> but when RTAI latency test is running
[23:09:24] <acemi> kern
[23:09:40] <alex_joni> it's there for me even if I'm not running anything
[23:09:50] <alex_joni> I only need to insmod rtai_hal and rtai_sched
[23:10:07] <alex_joni> can you check who provides it when you run the latency test?
[23:13:55] <acemi> 1 min alex_joni
[23:21:08] <acemi> de9ac6e4 T nano2count [rtai_sched]
[23:21:20] <acemi> after insmod rtai_hal and rtai_sched
[23:21:40] <acemi> from /proc/kallsyms
[23:22:02] <alex_joni> acemi: then it should be ok.. no idea why it doesn't :/
[23:24:20] <acemi> ok, I'll send a message if I find a new info
[23:26:49] <alex_joni> acemi: cool
[23:39:10] <seb_kuzminsky> acemi's setup is finding problems that lenny/linux-2.6.22/gcc-4.3.2 isn't... :-/
[23:40:03] <acemi> 2.6.28.2
[23:41:15] <alex_joni> newer kernel and newer rtai
[23:47:34] <robh_> i used kernel 2.6.24 with 3.6.1 rtai and works ok here
[23:48:44] <acemi> 3.6.1 works ok for me too
[23:49:56] <alex_joni> acemi: and 3.6.1 doesn't work with 2.6.28 ?
[23:50:07] <acemi> no
[23:50:19] <acemi> for 2.6.24 or older
[23:51:39] <alex_joni> what doesn't work?
[23:51:52] <alex_joni> (except the patch not beeing there..)
[23:52:06] <acemi> no patch
[23:52:58] <alex_joni> maybe you can try to build 3.6-cv against the kernel you have now
[23:53:10] <alex_joni> (with the patch from 3.7-test1)
[23:54:24] <acemi> I remember that paolo changes something which are not backward compatible
[23:55:47] <acemi> because of some complicts with linux kerne┼č