#emc | Logs for 2009-02-08

[01:05:09] <alex_joni> good night all
[01:28:13] <cradek> huh, I crashed irssi
[01:29:10] <jmkasunich> how'd you do that? typing dirty words?
[01:43:24] <cradek> no, resizing it too small I think
[03:42:05] <a-l-p-h-a> maybe I should sell my mill and lathe... they haven't been turned on in ages.
[07:47:04] <motioncontrol> good morning. i have open point on my machine retrofit.the spindle have two gear velocity mode.i have scaled pwgen and scale gain for the firtst change velocity.BUt i have change the gear when the velocyty command is upper 800 rpm/min.what is the mode for canche scale pwmgen and scale gain is classc ladder ?
[09:21:32] <snuffleufugus> SWPadnos/anyone which mesa board do you suggest
[09:25:51] <snuffleufugus> Anyone around?
[09:45:43] <snuffleufugus> I need to talk to someone :P anyone?
[10:04:24] <archivist> bit early in the day
[10:04:49] <archivist> just hang around and an answer may come
[10:19:16] <snuffleufugus> I was just llokin to bs a little
[10:19:23] <snuffleufugus> *looking*
[10:20:03] <snuffleufugus> I was curious if anyone happens to be running a Glentek Servo setup
[10:20:36] <snuffleufugus> Or Baldor
[10:21:23] <archivist> also you could ask that on the mailing list as that gets to more users
[10:22:22] <snuffleufugus> Good call thx
[10:22:43] <snuffleufugus> What kind of system are you running?
[10:23:54] <archivist> a stepper
[10:24:23] <snuffleufugus> Is it a machine or just free running drives?
[10:24:45] <archivist> 4 axis mill, I cut gears
[10:24:56] <snuffleufugus> awesome
[10:25:17] <archivist> the mill is home brew
[10:25:26] <snuffleufugus> even cooler
[10:25:26] <archivist> and ugly
[10:25:30] <snuffleufugus> :)
[10:27:09] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/
[10:27:21] <snuffleufugus> Im running an old Index Werke
[10:27:31] <snuffleufugus> ok
[10:28:24] <JustinXJS2__> JustinXJS2__ is now known as JustinXJS2
[10:31:38] <snuffleufugus> Pretty slick setup you got there
[10:32:25] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: it's best to just ask your question, then wait for someone to answer
[10:32:41] <alex_joni> not knowing what you're gonna ask, might cause some people to not say anything at all
[10:32:44] <snuffleufugus> I used the Oscilloscope built into EMC to fix my encoders for my existing cnc system and it seems the more I learn about EMC the more interested i am in doing a conversion
[10:33:41] <snuffleufugus> Understood. I am not yet accustomed to the etiquite sp?
[10:33:55] <alex_joni> fair nuff ;)
[10:34:00] <snuffleufugus> :)
[10:34:19] <alex_joni> so .. what did you want to know?
[10:35:00] <snuffleufugus> I am running a Glentek servo system and just dont know what mea boards are required to drive it.
[10:35:07] <snuffleufugus> mesa*
[10:35:17] <archivist_win> bleh keyboard input fail in one of the PC's
[10:35:23] <snuffleufugus> ahh
[10:35:26] <snuffleufugus> sucks
[10:35:51] <snuffleufugus> did you get the last few messages before logging into your win box?
[10:36:33] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: how do these drives get commanded?
[10:36:41] <alex_joni> analog? (-10/10V ?)
[10:36:46] <motioncontrol> good morning
[10:36:49] <snuffleufugus> that is what it seems
[10:36:54] <snuffleufugus> good morning :)
[10:36:59] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: you can easily measure that
[10:37:05] <alex_joni> feedback is encoders I guess
[10:37:09] <snuffleufugus> yes
[10:37:09] <archivist_win> other box is still up, just using a kvm switch
[10:37:13] <snuffleufugus> o
[10:37:26] <alex_joni> any tight budget? :D
[10:37:34] <snuffleufugus> Well, Im about certain it uses 10-,10+
[10:37:38] <snuffleufugus> quite
[10:37:50] <alex_joni> any IO specs?
[10:38:07] <alex_joni> morning motioncontrol
[10:38:13] <motioncontrol> ciao alex
[10:38:15] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: did you read about mux2?
[10:38:27] <motioncontrol> no i don't undertsand
[10:38:34] <alex_joni> a mux is basicly a component with 3 inputs
[10:38:40] <snuffleufugus> I would have to switch computers to get the required information but Im really uncertain on what you mean by IO specs
[10:38:42] <motioncontrol> normaly i use plc for i/o sequenze
[10:38:52] <alex_joni> one input (called selct) changes the output from the mux from input1 to input2
[10:39:04] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: so when the select is 0, output=input1
[10:39:13] <alex_joni> and when select = 1, output=input2
[10:39:38] <alex_joni> select in your case is spindle-rpm > 800, input1 = scale for lowgear, input2 = scale for highgear
[10:39:42] <motioncontrol> ok the boolean combinator
[10:39:57] <alex_joni> output goes to where you want to set scale
[10:40:06] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: number of inputs/outputs
[10:40:20] <alex_joni> limit switches, coolant, mist, spindle control
[10:40:24] <alex_joni> toolchanger?
[10:40:25] <snuffleufugus> ohhhh
[10:40:40] <alex_joni> it's a very important design decision
[10:41:04] <alex_joni> do you want to have spindle control? if yes, what kind?
[10:41:10] <alex_joni> pwm out? analog out?
[10:41:15] <alex_joni> encoder on it for feedback?
[10:41:53] <snuffleufugus> atleast 8 i/o spindle not required
[10:41:58] <snuffleufugus> gear driven machine.
[10:42:06] <snuffleufugus> no toolchanger
[10:42:20] <snuffleufugus> I just need to trip air solenoid
[10:42:21] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[10:42:30] <snuffleufugus> ty
[10:43:28] <snuffleufugus> all functions required are controlled by simple air cylinders so just triggering them is all that is required
[10:43:30] <motioncontrol> ok i prove this mux2 combinator.
[10:43:43] <alex_joni> probably a good choice would be something like the mesa 7i43, which is around 80$
[10:44:12] <alex_joni> but it easily adds up once you add opto's for isolation, and a board to convert the pwm+dir it outputs to -10/10V
[10:44:20] <snuffleufugus> great, I was looking for prices on the site and somehow missed them
[10:45:03] <snuffleufugus> yeah the pwm+direction to -10/+10 do you have a price estimation on that?
[10:45:20] <snuffleufugus> i looked at it but have no clue on cost
[10:45:21] <archivist> looks like I have it werkin again
[10:45:24] <alex_joni> a 7i33 is the board from mesa
[10:45:35] <alex_joni> http://www.mesanet.com/prices.html
[10:45:52] <alex_joni> although I would today get the 7i33T
[10:46:02] <alex_joni> that one has screw terminals on it
[10:46:16] <motioncontrol> alex another question in pre 2.3 cvs version i see the new pin in emc : classicladder.0.floatin-00 , this is not the s32in varuable(%iW0). who are float in classicladder?
[10:46:40] <snuffleufugus> I recall looking through them and stopping at which i believe to be that one
[10:46:52] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: I don't know
[10:47:08] <snuffleufugus> Im using BitchX right now so I cant really hop over the a browser
[10:47:21] <snuffleufugus> Otherwise I would be more certain.
[10:47:37] <snuffleufugus> to*
[10:47:47] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: I would probably get a 7i33T (4 axis Analog servo amp interface - terminal strip I/O) and a 7i37T (16 in 8 out isolated driver terminal I/O)
[10:47:51] <alex_joni> these are 79$ each
[10:48:04] <snuffleufugus> thats not bad at all
[10:48:19] <snuffleufugus> way cheaper than any old card for my cnc
[10:48:49] <snuffleufugus> I have two cnc systems with all the trimmings but the one main board is out and I have no interest in buying another
[10:48:51] <alex_joni> you're still at around 240$ now, and there are lots of things missing still
[10:49:01] <alex_joni> relays, wiring, etc
[10:49:14] <motioncontrol> ok alex thanks i close for dinner , after i prove your council. good dinner at all. by
[10:49:16] <snuffleufugus> Well, ?I have everything else I think
[10:49:32] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: oh, that's surely not true :P
[10:49:41] <snuffleufugus> shucks
[10:49:42] <alex_joni> murphy still gets to have his saying
[10:49:54] <alex_joni> kidding..
[10:51:02] <archivist> I wonder if my problem was the kvm switch itself
[10:51:21] <alex_joni> archivist: some kvm's don't pass on DRI info to the VGA card
[10:51:21] <snuffleufugus> What more might I need? I mean I have the entire system other than the mainboard, can't I just use all my old hardware and replace the processing unit with a PC and the mesa boards?
[10:51:31] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: probably so
[10:51:43] <alex_joni> you need a PC with good realtime latency
[10:52:01] <alex_joni> and that has a parport for the 7i43
[10:52:01] <archivist> alex_joni, been getting kb funnies for a few days
[10:52:20] <snuffleufugus> I have a lot of learning to do.
[10:52:38] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: you seem on the right track
[10:52:58] <archivist> lurk here and the mailing list
[10:53:36] <snuffleufugus> Thanks, I spent about 3-4 days working on my old cnc (never used a cnc before) and fixed one drive and figured out the problem with the other one with SWPadnos
[10:53:44] <snuffleufugus> :)
[10:53:47] <snuffleufugus> will do.
[10:54:02] <alex_joni> cool
[10:55:05] <alex_joni> snuffleufugus: some parports have issues with EPP, and have problems talking to the 7i43
[10:55:21] <alex_joni> it's a bit rare for onboard though, but known to happen I think
[10:55:30] <alex_joni> just ask mesa they'll know, and are very friendly
[10:55:37] <snuffleufugus> magnificient
[10:56:06] <snuffleufugus> Finding a suitable set of IO shouldnt be the toughest part tho
[10:56:26] <alex_joni> if you can afford it, a 5i20 or 5i23 (pci) is probably the better choice
[10:56:45] <alex_joni> 5i20 is 199$ on their website
[10:58:04] <snuffleufugus> I suppose after a few more jobs (meaning i need to make a couple few more thousand parts) maybe i can pick up a couple cards and convert my old system
[10:59:31] <alex_joni> btw, there are other choices besides mesa
[10:59:33] <snuffleufugus> If all works as planned I would like to attend some local auctions and hopefully grab a couple more junk cnc systems with any luck Ill find a good buy
[10:59:36] <alex_joni> check the wiki page, they are all there
[11:00:10] <snuffleufugus> does the wiki page have example of peoples systems????
[11:00:45] <snuffleufugus> Maybe I will find a similar layout to my own system
[11:01:00] <alex_joni> there are some
[11:01:12] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies
[11:01:31] <snuffleufugus> I will have to look later, I am on BitchX, but ty
[11:01:44] <alex_joni> no X available?
[11:01:49] <snuffleufugus> Not currently
[11:01:53] <alex_joni> ah, ok
[11:02:07] <alex_joni> well, it'll still be there later :P
[11:02:12] <snuffleufugus> true
[11:02:14] <snuffleufugus> :)
[11:02:36] <snuffleufugus> Im new to linux as well.
[11:02:57] <snuffleufugus> I like it much more than windows. I just am a newb.
[11:03:24] <snuffleufugus> gotta start somewhere I spose.
[11:08:48] <snuffleufugus> I must go, thank you for your help
[13:08:09] <The_Ball> jmkasunich, what make is your dog? looks like a cool dog
[15:46:10] <motioncontrol> good morning i have problem with mux2output. net mux2.0.out hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale , error is pin not exist.which write in hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale ?
[15:48:13] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: it seems hm2_*.*.pwmgen.*.scale is a parameter and cannot be linked like I said
[15:48:44] <alex_joni> the only way to do what you want is use an additional scale component, and put the mux on the *.value pin
[15:48:45] <cradek> the net command is wrong - you don't specify a net name
[15:49:00] <alex_joni> cradek: still .. scale is a param and can't be linked
[15:50:56] <motioncontrol> alex in hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale value 3000 and i have 9,5 volt 3000 rpm/min my spindle in first gear.i thin change this value for the second gear
[15:55:08] <jepler> you would set the hm2 pwmgen scale to a value like 1.0 (or maybe whatever gives you 1.0 = 1V), and use a separate scale component to perform the scaling from RPM to volts. mux.0.out => scale.0.gain
[15:55:36] <motioncontrol> this is my spindle hal file. http://www.pastebin.ca/1330795
[15:59:40] <motioncontrol> jepler you thing the hm2 pwgen scale is value 1 and i change the scale.0.gain ?
[16:00:16] <jepler> that's what I'm suggesting
[16:01:40] <motioncontrol> ok thanks i restart and i prove this fuction. at after.
[16:15:47] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BJT-Hardy
[16:16:26] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73146
[16:16:49] <skunkworks> Good morning :) - we slept late...
[16:17:27] <BJT-Hardy> you a lucky guy
[16:18:54] <skunkworks> heh
[16:19:07] <skunkworks> just means we have to make our own breakfast..
[16:19:39] <BJT-Hardy> it's dang near lunch time :)
[16:21:41] <skunkworks> weekends we run our own schedules ;)
[16:28:56] <DrRoboto> Hi all, I'm interested controlling a CNC hot wire foam cutter to start with, and I'm trying to figure out if/how easily emc can be set up to cut a tapered profile using two symmetrical two axis towers. Can anyone help me out?
[16:30:43] <BJT-Hardy> isn't there something on the wiki about that?
[16:30:50] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02925.html
[16:35:51] <BigJohnT> it takes cnczone forever to load with all those ads on dialup
[16:36:04] <eric_unterhausen> adblocker
[16:38:19] <DrRoboto> thanks for the link, it does tell me that this capability was to be added for version 2.2, however I have yet to find information on this feature being used/working
[16:38:45] <BigJohnT> yea, I need to get it set up on that computer too :)
[16:40:14] <DrRoboto> I was just hoping someone might be on who has experience with this feature, or could point me to information on it
[16:41:22] <SWPadnos> there have been discussions about this in the past
[16:41:48] <SWPadnos> EMC2 has no specific support for XY UV machines, but it can certainly control the motors for you
[16:42:05] <SWPadnos> there are a couple of questions that have been posed, but I don't recall seeing the answers
[16:42:22] <SWPadnos> one that comes to mind is that there are at least two ways of controlling such a machine
[16:42:38] <SWPadnos> 1) XY UV are all independent joints
[16:43:09] <SWPadnos> 2) G-code that specifies UV positions are specifying an offset from XY
[16:44:08] <Roguish> good morning all. anyone know about laser cutters? piping the laser with fibre optics?
[16:44:13] <SWPadnos> in the first case, it's a pretty easy EMC2 config, you just have to look up the right incantation to make EMC2 use XY UV but no ZABC (which would normally be between XY and UV)
[16:44:24] <Roguish> rather and mirrors, etc.
[16:45:10] <SWPadnos> in the second, you need to combine two joints together when doing motor commands, and separate out their feedback to the motion controller
[16:45:15] <SWPadnos> (not as easy :) )
[16:45:37] <SWPadnos> Roguish, you'd want some nice clear fiber :)
[16:46:21] <Roguish> got a prospective client that has several top end Amada laser cutter. wants a couple of small laser cutters.
[16:46:22] <BigJohnT> for hot wire don't you need to have all 4 axis as independent? same as wire edm...
[16:46:51] <Roguish> not sure the type of laser, though, maybe CO2.
[16:48:19] <DrRoboto> well, I guess I have alot more reading to do, how indepth do you think the first option would be. I'm not sure if I'm up to the challenge on trail blazing on something like this
[16:48:47] <eric_unterhausen> someone did it, there are videos on youtube
[16:49:36] <eric_unterhausen> what software will you use to draw your parts?
[16:50:06] <eric_unterhausen> seems to me that's the trick, and I know there are tons of hotwire sites on the web
[16:50:26] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVuPHD1LpL8
[16:52:45] <DrRoboto> I've been using profili to generate profile templates to cut foam manually (airfoils)
[16:55:03] <SWPadnos> I don't remember the specific way tou set up XYUV, it may be as simple as using COORDINATES=X Y U V in the ini file
[16:55:05] <BigJohnT> DrRoboto: do you cut only one side of the airfoil at a time?
[16:55:50] <DrRoboto> do you mean top vs bottem?
[16:55:54] <DrRoboto> if so yes
[16:55:56] <BigJohnT> yes
[16:56:31] <BigJohnT> I used to cut them by hand and made templates for the ends with reversible lead in and lead out pins
[16:56:52] <BigJohnT> cut top, flip over, flip pins, cut bottom...
[16:57:50] <DrRoboto> I like to do two templates, one for the upper airfoil, and one for the lower, each with lead in and out
[16:58:38] <DrRoboto> I'm thining of doing some wind turbine blades after I get my cutter running
[16:58:46] <DrRoboto> kinda my excuse for the investment, lol
[17:00:18] <BigJohnT> cool, how big?
[17:00:44] <DrRoboto> no idea yet, depends on the biggest I'm allowed to have under local rules
[17:01:21] <DrRoboto> the power company here allows for private green generators up to 100kw, definately not that big though
[17:01:43] <BigJohnT> you use vacuum bag to apply the fiberglass or other covering?
[17:02:41] <glackins_> I believe cyclestart (CNCzone nick) uses emc to control foam cutters - Not sure of the configurations he has though.
[17:03:16] <DrRoboto> no, next project is a nice vacuum pump though, here http://www.joewoodworker.com/docs/ProjectEVS.pdf
[17:03:55] <BigJohnT> that will take a while on dialup :(
[17:04:00] <DrRoboto> I've been using tape and sometimes non vacummed glass
[17:04:03] <DrRoboto> lol
[17:04:10] <DrRoboto> I'll see if I can find a shot
[17:04:22] <DrRoboto> http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/downloads.htm
[17:04:36] <DrRoboto> it's just a diy vacuum pump with reservoirs
[17:04:54] <DrRoboto> easily expandable for lager projects I might do
[17:07:02] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: looks like a couple of changes in the .hal file as well
[17:07:22] <SWPadnos> sure, axis.6 and axis.7, for example
[17:08:18] <DrRoboto> registered on cnczone, looking up cyclestart
[17:09:17] <BigJohnT> DrRoboto: nice pump, I just ripped out a compressor from a fridge and used the suction side to create a vacuum for $0
[17:12:18] <DrRoboto> what kind of vacuum can you pull witht he fridge pump?
[17:12:57] <BigJohnT> about 30-31 inches if I remember correctly
[17:13:21] <BigJohnT> enough to evacuate an air conditioner system
[17:14:20] <DrRoboto> I was under the impression fridge units couldn't provide that much vacuum, I'll have to reconsider that pump
[17:17:16] <BigJohnT> it was as good as a commerical pump but it was free :)
[17:17:27] <DrRoboto> and just from an average fridge?
[17:18:02] <BigJohnT> It may not be suitable for use every day like a HVAC tech might use them but it will create as much vacuum
[17:18:10] <BigJohnT> yep AFIK
[17:18:16] <BigJohnT> AFAIK
[17:19:57] <DrRoboto> nice, can't wait for my gargage, I'm moving at the end of this month, finally done with apartments
[17:20:34] <DrRoboto> finally be able to do some of this stuff
[17:22:47] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT wanders off to take a nap
[17:26:44] <motioncontrol> i have again the problem whith spindle. the scale fuction non ok. please help me.
[17:29:03] <motioncontrol> i write m3 s10 and the pwmgen. value is 10. i write m3 s100 and pwmgen.value is 100.
[17:29:11] <Roguish> SWPadnos: is this 'automatic height following' something that can be done in emc2? http://www.kernlasers.com/metal_cutting.htm
[17:32:19] <alex_joni> Roguish: it can be done, check the THC work from dallur plasma sample config
[17:32:41] <Roguish> that's what i was thinking.
[17:34:29] <motioncontrol> alex i have the problem again whith my spindle, because i don,t can regolation the velocyty.Can please control the errror in my hal spindle file :http://www.pastebin.ca/1330847
[17:46:16] <motioncontrol> i have the problem again whith my spindle, because i don,t can regolation the velocyty.Can please control the errror in my hal spindle file :http://www.pastebin.ca/1330847
[17:50:38] <jepler> #
[17:50:39] <jepler> net Scmd motion.spindle-speed-out => hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.value
[17:50:52] <jepler> that's what this line does: makes pwmgen.03.value be the same as the value made by emc on motion.spindle-speed-out
[17:51:59] <jepler> you change the relationship between that and pwm duty cycle or voltage if using an analog daughtercard using the .scale parameter
[17:54:58] <motioncontrol> ok i prove thanks jepler
[17:56:12] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: is it clear to you what you want to achieve?
[17:58:20] <motioncontrol> alex i don't understand
[18:00:58] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: do you have a plan?
[18:01:09] <alex_joni> what is it you want to do?
[18:01:56] <alex_joni> you said you have a gearchanger .. and that you need 2 different scales
[18:04:45] <motioncontrol> yes my spindle have 2 gear canche.inizial my pwmscale =3000 and the spindle turn ok.now my pwmgen 1s 10.0 (ten volt) and i provle scale.0.gain value change, but the spindle load max number rpm because my hal spindle file is no correct.the my problem for two gear change i resolv after now i resol first the my non correct scale fuction
[18:05:17] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: try less information once at a time, I didn't understand anything
[18:05:27] <alex_joni> lets start with spindle speed
[18:05:39] <motioncontrol> ok alex step by step
[18:05:48] <motioncontrol> one moment i write
[18:05:49] <alex_joni> what is your spindle speed for gear 1
[18:06:03] <motioncontrol> 800 rpm
[18:06:12] <alex_joni> 0..800 rpm ?
[18:06:36] <motioncontrol> 0-800 rpm first gear 800- 3000 second gear
[18:06:43] <alex_joni> ok, perfect so far
[18:07:06] <alex_joni> what is the motor rpm for gear 1? 0..800 rpm motor = 0..800 rpm spindle?
[18:07:51] <motioncontrol> yes gear 1/1 first gear
[18:07:56] <alex_joni> ok, good so far
[18:08:02] <alex_joni> now lets move to gear 2
[18:08:19] <alex_joni> what is motor rpm for 800..3000 rpm spindle?
[18:08:52] <motioncontrol> gear 1/3
[18:09:28] <alex_joni> ok.. so you need 266.66 .. 1000 rpm motor
[18:09:45] <alex_joni> ok, lets take gear 1 now
[18:09:46] <motioncontrol> yes
[18:09:59] <alex_joni> what voltage do you need to output to have 100 rpm at the motor?
[18:10:35] <motioncontrol> the motor at 3000 rpm want 10 volt
[18:10:56] <alex_joni> ok.. at 1000 rpm 10/3 volt?
[18:11:24] <motioncontrol> 3,333 at 1000 rpm
[18:11:49] <alex_joni> ok, so scale is 10/3000
[18:13:03] <alex_joni> right?
[18:14:04] <motioncontrol> ok alex . the problem is in my hal spindle file : i change the scale but the motor speed no change
[18:14:07] <alex_joni> 0.00333 if my math is right
[18:14:12] <alex_joni> hang on, we're not there yet
[18:14:28] <alex_joni> first we need a plan, then we change things in the hal file
[18:15:42] <motioncontrol> yes i chanhe the scale.0.gain , restart emc , but not fuction.i thing the some connection error in my hal spindle configuration
[18:16:23] <motioncontrol> you have one example the spindle file fuction ok
[18:17:08] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: you need to understand how this works, to make it work
[18:18:01] <alex_joni> first we need to decide what gear it needs to be based on the commanded spindle speed
[18:18:13] <alex_joni> the commanded spindle speed comes from motion.spindle-speed-out
[18:18:55] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: let me know when something is ok, so I can go further
[18:21:27] <motioncontrol> ok alex i understand , i prove tomorrow in my studio , because now not have the hardware with me.Thanks for all.You can go in Italy?
[18:21:42] <alex_joni> heh, no.. not at the moment
[18:22:01] <alex_joni> but so far I only talked about 10% of what you need to do
[18:23:43] <alex_joni> the spindle speed needs to be compared (if it's between 0 and 800, then we have lowgear, if it's larger we have high gear)
[18:24:00] <alex_joni> does the spindle turn backwards if you command -3v ?
[18:24:35] <motioncontrol> my first thing is retrofit my maschine , after if Jesus want, i want study emc2 and if comunity want create the external tool for grafical halui comunication
[18:25:39] <motioncontrol> my drives is +/- 10 volt
[18:26:06] <motioncontrol> forward and revers automatically
[18:26:10] <alex_joni> ok.. good
[18:26:19] <alex_joni> so you need low gear for -800 .. 800 rpm
[18:26:42] <alex_joni> and high gear outside of that interval.. right?
[18:28:38] <motioncontrol> alex excuse please wait.First the calculation , you can control my hal file, because the error not is the value , but the scale.0.gain non fuction ok.can poste my complete hal file on pastebin?
[18:28:50] <alex_joni> yes
[18:29:02] <motioncontrol> ok one moment i poste it
[18:29:27] <jepler> schematic representation of how to set DAC/pwmgen output based on a gear choice and rpm command using mux and scale: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/geared-spindle.png
[18:30:21] <jepler> bbl
[18:31:49] <motioncontrol> in this hal file not is present two gear , but only one gear.The spindle velocity in one gera no correct .http://www.pastebin.ca/1330886
[18:33:15] <motioncontrol> good example jepler
[18:34:02] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: you have hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale set to 10
[18:34:25] <motioncontrol> yes because i have 10 for all axis
[18:34:30] <motioncontrol> 10 is 10 volt
[18:34:37] <alex_joni> 10 means multiply by 10
[18:34:58] <alex_joni> if motion commands 100 rpm, scale multiplies by 10, and the pwmgen is asked for 1000%
[18:35:07] <alex_joni> it will probably always output 10V
[18:35:24] <alex_joni> except when emc2 spindle speed is 0
[18:35:43] <motioncontrol> yes the spindle load the max velocity
[18:35:56] <motioncontrol> m3 s10 the dac is 10 volt
[18:36:09] <motioncontrol> m3 s100 the dac is 10 volt
[18:36:11] <alex_joni> m3 s1 and the dac is 10volt
[18:36:24] <alex_joni> because you multiply the S1 by scale (10)
[18:36:29] <motioncontrol> no scale value at varius s spindle command
[18:37:18] <motioncontrol> i thing at some connection pin is error
[18:37:23] <alex_joni> it's supposed to do that, you told it to do that
[18:37:30] <alex_joni> do you understand what scale does?
[18:37:38] <alex_joni> it multiplies
[18:38:03] <alex_joni> if you have S10 (10) as the input, and that gets multiplied by 10 (the scale value), the output will be 100
[18:38:13] <alex_joni> but since the DAC can only do 10V, it will be 10V
[18:38:37] <alex_joni> if you would have set scale to be 0.1 then the output would have been S10 x 0.1 = 1V
[18:39:03] <motioncontrol> yes , tommorrow i rewrite my hal file , but first i go in church
[18:39:27] <alex_joni> setp hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.output-type
[18:39:43] <alex_joni> that probably will give an error, because you need to put a value after setp pinname
[18:39:53] <motioncontrol> type = 1
[18:39:53] <alex_joni> line 424 at http://www.pastebin.ca/1330886
[18:40:28] <motioncontrol> my error copy in pastebin type = 1
[18:40:34] <alex_joni> ok
[18:41:05] <motioncontrol> the ddt fuction whath is?
[18:41:54] <alex_joni> derivative
[18:43:09] <motioncontrol> ok alex thenks for your help and thanks at jepler for example, very very thanks for your patience
[18:46:21] <motioncontrol> ok alex when you want go in italy for work my project (2 week), please call me and you stay in my family
[18:48:28] <alex_joni> heh, interesting offer, but I'm too busy at the moment.. sorry
[18:48:34] <alex_joni> what part of italy are you?
[18:48:55] <motioncontrol> south of ITALY, sun and mare
[18:49:24] <motioncontrol> you can me help retrofit 10 machine with emc
[18:50:41] <motioncontrol> i change the control at on my maschines .In this moment i have fanuc- siemens and selca cnc.
[18:52:55] <fenn> uh oh jepler is moving in on my code projects again! :)
[18:53:05] <alex_joni> fenn: ?
[18:53:19] <fenn> the hal schematic
[18:53:47] <alex_joni> ah
[18:54:04] <motioncontrol> ok no problem i wait
[18:54:37] <fenn> i guess that was just done in qcad
[18:56:28] <pcw> Alex: looks like HM2 PWM/DAC output is divided by scale:
[18:56:30] <pcw> (float rw) scale: Scaling factor to convert 'value' from arbitrary units
[18:56:31] <pcw> to duty cycle: dc = value / scale. Duty cycle has an effective range
[18:56:33] <pcw> of -1.0 to +1.0 inclusive.
[18:58:46] <pcw> so if you wanted +-3000 RPM to give +- 10V
[18:58:47] <pcw> you would set hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale
[18:58:49] <pcw> to 3000 ( at least thats what it look like to me)
[18:59:51] <alex_joni> did you look at 2.2.8 docs?
[19:02:23] <pcw> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/docs/man/man9/hostmot2.9?rev=;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup
[19:03:11] <pcw> Thats trunk I guess
[19:03:23] <pcw> doubt if its changed
[19:04:22] <alex_joni> is a branch
[19:04:26] <alex_joni> so that's for 2.2.8
[19:05:47] <alex_joni> guess you're right..
[19:05:55] <alex_joni> scaled_value = *hm2->pwmgen.instance[i].hal.pin.value / hm2->pwmgen.instance[i].hal.param.scale;
[19:07:36] <pcw> Are spindles normally run open-loop like this?
[19:07:41] <jepler> fenn: I laboriously drew it in qcad :-P
[19:07:52] <cradek> pcw: yeah
[19:08:27] <pcw> (not that I would want to suggest such thing to motioncontrol)
[19:08:58] <pcw> (* i mean closed loop)
[19:09:30] <cradek> pcw: they're so slow and heavy they're hard to tune. with many drivers, index reset messes up the pid error input too
[19:09:51] <pcw> OK
[19:10:10] <cradek> pcw: also if there is more than one gear, you can only tune for one (I tried it...)
[19:11:06] <alex_joni> can't you use different PID settings based on gear?
[19:11:07] <pcw> Sure th dynamics are different with different gear ratios
[19:11:24] <cradek> alex_joni: probably could, yes - but ick
[19:11:32] <alex_joni> yeah, I know..
[19:11:43] <cradek> no real benefit to all the complexity, IMO
[19:11:52] <alex_joni> maybe try to tune with as most common params as possible
[19:12:44] <alex_joni> and only have 1-2 that differ and get selected by mux'es
[19:12:48] <alex_joni> (I know that ick)
[19:15:34] <cradek> I tried this because I have varispeed on the lathe spindle. I thought it would be neat to be able to move them and have the speed stay correct. but it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth
[19:15:46] <cradek> for one thing, it would freak when I threaded, because the position would reset on index
[19:16:04] <cradek> might or might not be better now, with velocity estimate in the driver (if it's index-safe)
[19:16:36] <pcw> velocity should now be index independent
[19:17:06] <pcw> (Sebastian uses latch on index instead of clear on index now)
[19:18:48] <pcw> as long as velocity estimate is fed to PID and not ddt(position)
[19:19:25] <alex_joni> velocity estimate should always be supperior than ddt(position)
[19:20:37] <pcw> Yep, especially at low speeds
[19:20:39] <pcw> where ddt(pos) is crunchy
[21:05:25] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[21:15:43] <jmkasunich> The_Ball: je
[21:15:45] <jmkasunich> oops
[21:16:02] <jmkasunich> The_Ball: he's a mix (rescue, got him when he was about 1 year old)
[21:16:13] <jmkasunich> golden retriever, chow, sheppard?
[22:26:23] <JymmmEMC> half chiwawa, half great dane (don't ask)
[22:38:19] <jmkasunich> a stepladder was involved in that
[22:41:32] <The_Ball> haha
[22:59:54] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:00:24] <BigJohnT> good night alex_joni