good night all
huh, I crashed irssi
how'd you do that? typing dirty words?
no, resizing it too small I think
maybe I should sell my mill and lathe... they haven't been turned on in ages.
good morning. i have open point on my machine retrofit.the spindle have two gear velocity mode.i have scaled pwgen and scale gain for the firtst change velocity.BUt i have change the gear when the velocyty command is upper 800 rpm/min.what is the mode for canche scale pwmgen and scale gain is classc ladder ?
SWPadnos/anyone which mesa board do you suggest
I need to talk to someone :P anyone?
bit early in the day
just hang around and an answer may come
I was just llokin to bs a little
I was curious if anyone happens to be running a Glentek Servo setup
also you could ask that on the mailing list as that gets to more users
Good call thx
What kind of system are you running?
Is it a machine or just free running drives?
4 axis mill, I cut gears
the mill is home brew
[10:27:09] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/
Im running an old Index Werke
JustinXJS2__ is now known as JustinXJS2
Pretty slick setup you got there
snuffleufugus: it's best to just ask your question, then wait for someone to answer
not knowing what you're gonna ask, might cause some people to not say anything at all
I used the Oscilloscope built into EMC to fix my encoders for my existing cnc system and it seems the more I learn about EMC the more interested i am in doing a conversion
Understood. I am not yet accustomed to the etiquite sp?
fair nuff ;)
so .. what did you want to know?
I am running a Glentek servo system and just dont know what mea boards are required to drive it.
bleh keyboard input fail in one of the PC's
did you get the last few messages before logging into your win box?
snuffleufugus: how do these drives get commanded?
analog? (-10/10V ?)
that is what it seems
good morning :)
snuffleufugus: you can easily measure that
feedback is encoders I guess
other box is still up, just using a kvm switch
any tight budget? :D
Well, Im about certain it uses 10-,10+
any IO specs?
motioncontrol: did you read about mux2?
no i don't undertsand
a mux is basicly a component with 3 inputs
I would have to switch computers to get the required information but Im really uncertain on what you mean by IO specs
normaly i use plc for i/o sequenze
one input (called selct) changes the output from the mux from input1 to input2
motioncontrol: so when the select is 0, output=input1
and when select = 1, output=input2
select in your case is spindle-rpm > 800, input1 = scale for lowgear, input2 = scale for highgear
ok the boolean combinator
output goes to where you want to set scale
snuffleufugus: number of inputs/outputs
limit switches, coolant, mist, spindle control
it's a very important design decision
do you want to have spindle control? if yes, what kind?
pwm out? analog out?
encoder on it for feedback?
atleast 8 i/o spindle not required
gear driven machine.
I just need to trip air solenoid
all functions required are controlled by simple air cylinders so just triggering them is all that is required
ok i prove this mux2 combinator.
probably a good choice would be something like the mesa 7i43, which is around 80$
but it easily adds up once you add opto's for isolation, and a board to convert the pwm+dir it outputs to -10/10V
great, I was looking for prices on the site and somehow missed them
yeah the pwm+direction to -10/+10 do you have a price estimation on that?
i looked at it but have no clue on cost
looks like I have it werkin again
a 7i33 is the board from mesa
[10:45:35] <alex_joni> http://www.mesanet.com/prices.html
although I would today get the 7i33T
that one has screw terminals on it
alex another question in pre 2.3 cvs version i see the new pin in emc : classicladder.0.floatin-00 , this is not the s32in varuable(%iW0). who are float in classicladder?
I recall looking through them and stopping at which i believe to be that one
motioncontrol: I don't know
Im using BitchX right now so I cant really hop over the a browser
Otherwise I would be more certain.
snuffleufugus: I would probably get a 7i33T (4 axis Analog servo amp interface - terminal strip I/O) and a 7i37T (16 in 8 out isolated driver terminal I/O)
these are 79$ each
thats not bad at all
way cheaper than any old card for my cnc
I have two cnc systems with all the trimmings but the one main board is out and I have no interest in buying another
you're still at around 240$ now, and there are lots of things missing still
relays, wiring, etc
ok alex thanks i close for dinner , after i prove your council. good dinner at all. by
Well, ?I have everything else I think
snuffleufugus: oh, that's surely not true :P
murphy still gets to have his saying
I wonder if my problem was the kvm switch itself
archivist: some kvm's don't pass on DRI info to the VGA card
What more might I need? I mean I have the entire system other than the mainboard, can't I just use all my old hardware and replace the processing unit with a PC and the mesa boards?
snuffleufugus: probably so
you need a PC with good realtime latency
and that has a parport for the 7i43
alex_joni, been getting kb funnies for a few days
I have a lot of learning to do.
snuffleufugus: you seem on the right track
lurk here and the mailing list
Thanks, I spent about 3-4 days working on my old cnc (never used a cnc before) and fixed one drive and figured out the problem with the other one with SWPadnos
snuffleufugus: some parports have issues with EPP, and have problems talking to the 7i43
it's a bit rare for onboard though, but known to happen I think
just ask mesa they'll know, and are very friendly
Finding a suitable set of IO shouldnt be the toughest part tho
if you can afford it, a 5i20 or 5i23 (pci) is probably the better choice
5i20 is 199$ on their website
I suppose after a few more jobs (meaning i need to make a couple few more thousand parts) maybe i can pick up a couple cards and convert my old system
btw, there are other choices besides mesa
If all works as planned I would like to attend some local auctions and hopefully grab a couple more junk cnc systems with any luck Ill find a good buy
check the wiki page, they are all there
does the wiki page have example of peoples systems????
Maybe I will find a similar layout to my own system
there are some
[11:01:12] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies
I will have to look later, I am on BitchX, but ty
no X available?
well, it'll still be there later :P
Im new to linux as well.
I like it much more than windows. I just am a newb.
gotta start somewhere I spose.
I must go, thank you for your help
jmkasunich, what make is your dog? looks like a cool dog
good morning i have problem with mux2output. net mux2.0.out hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale , error is pin not exist.which write in hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale ?
motioncontrol: it seems hm2_*.*.pwmgen.*.scale is a parameter and cannot be linked like I said
the only way to do what you want is use an additional scale component, and put the mux on the *.value pin
the net command is wrong - you don't specify a net name
cradek: still .. scale is a param and can't be linked
alex in hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale value 3000 and i have 9,5 volt 3000 rpm/min my spindle in first gear.i thin change this value for the second gear
you would set the hm2 pwmgen scale to a value like 1.0 (or maybe whatever gives you 1.0 = 1V), and use a separate scale component to perform the scaling from RPM to volts. mux.0.out => scale.0.gain
this is my spindle hal file. http://www.pastebin.ca/1330795
jepler you thing the hm2 pwgen scale is value 1 and i change the scale.0.gain ?
that's what I'm suggesting
ok thanks i restart and i prove this fuction. at after.
BigJohnT_ is now known as BJT-Hardy
[16:16:26] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73146
Good morning :) - we slept late...
you a lucky guy
just means we have to make our own breakfast..
it's dang near lunch time :)
weekends we run our own schedules ;)
Hi all, I'm interested controlling a CNC hot wire foam cutter to start with, and I'm trying to figure out if/how easily emc can be set up to cut a tapered profile using two symmetrical two axis towers. Can anyone help me out?
isn't there something on the wiki about that?
[16:30:50] <eric_unterhausen> http://email@example.com/msg02925.html
it takes cnczone forever to load with all those ads on dialup
thanks for the link, it does tell me that this capability was to be added for version 2.2, however I have yet to find information on this feature being used/working
yea, I need to get it set up on that computer too :)
I was just hoping someone might be on who has experience with this feature, or could point me to information on it
there have been discussions about this in the past
EMC2 has no specific support for XY UV machines, but it can certainly control the motors for you
there are a couple of questions that have been posed, but I don't recall seeing the answers
one that comes to mind is that there are at least two ways of controlling such a machine
1) XY UV are all independent joints
2) G-code that specifies UV positions are specifying an offset from XY
good morning all. anyone know about laser cutters? piping the laser with fibre optics?
in the first case, it's a pretty easy EMC2 config, you just have to look up the right incantation to make EMC2 use XY UV but no ZABC (which would normally be between XY and UV)
rather and mirrors, etc.
in the second, you need to combine two joints together when doing motor commands, and separate out their feedback to the motion controller
(not as easy :) )
Roguish, you'd want some nice clear fiber :)
got a prospective client that has several top end Amada laser cutter. wants a couple of small laser cutters.
for hot wire don't you need to have all 4 axis as independent? same as wire edm...
not sure the type of laser, though, maybe CO2.
well, I guess I have alot more reading to do, how indepth do you think the first option would be. I'm not sure if I'm up to the challenge on trail blazing on something like this
someone did it, there are videos on youtube
what software will you use to draw your parts?
seems to me that's the trick, and I know there are tons of hotwire sites on the web
[16:50:26] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVuPHD1LpL8
I've been using profili to generate profile templates to cut foam manually (airfoils)
I don't remember the specific way tou set up XYUV, it may be as simple as using COORDINATES=X Y U V in the ini file
DrRoboto: do you cut only one side of the airfoil at a time?
do you mean top vs bottem?
if so yes
I used to cut them by hand and made templates for the ends with reversible lead in and lead out pins
cut top, flip over, flip pins, cut bottom...
I like to do two templates, one for the upper airfoil, and one for the lower, each with lead in and out
I'm thining of doing some wind turbine blades after I get my cutter running
kinda my excuse for the investment, lol
cool, how big?
no idea yet, depends on the biggest I'm allowed to have under local rules
the power company here allows for private green generators up to 100kw, definately not that big though
you use vacuum bag to apply the fiberglass or other covering?
I believe cyclestart (CNCzone nick) uses emc to control foam cutters - Not sure of the configurations he has though.
no, next project is a nice vacuum pump though, here http://www.joewoodworker.com/docs/ProjectEVS.pdf
that will take a while on dialup :(
I've been using tape and sometimes non vacummed glass
I'll see if I can find a shot
[17:04:22] <DrRoboto> http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/downloads.htm
it's just a diy vacuum pump with reservoirs
easily expandable for lager projects I might do
SWPadnos: looks like a couple of changes in the .hal file as well
sure, axis.6 and axis.7, for example
registered on cnczone, looking up cyclestart
DrRoboto: nice pump, I just ripped out a compressor from a fridge and used the suction side to create a vacuum for $0
what kind of vacuum can you pull witht he fridge pump?
about 30-31 inches if I remember correctly
enough to evacuate an air conditioner system
I was under the impression fridge units couldn't provide that much vacuum, I'll have to reconsider that pump
it was as good as a commerical pump but it was free :)
and just from an average fridge?
It may not be suitable for use every day like a HVAC tech might use them but it will create as much vacuum
nice, can't wait for my gargage, I'm moving at the end of this month, finally done with apartments
finally be able to do some of this stuff
* BigJohnT wanders off to take a nap
i have again the problem whith spindle. the scale fuction non ok. please help me.
i write m3 s10 and the pwmgen. value is 10. i write m3 s100 and pwmgen.value is 100.
SWPadnos: is this 'automatic height following' something that can be done in emc2? http://www.kernlasers.com/metal_cutting.htm
Roguish: it can be done, check the THC work from dallur plasma sample config
that's what i was thinking.
alex i have the problem again whith my spindle, because i don,t can regolation the velocyty.Can please control the errror in my hal spindle file :http://www.pastebin.ca/1330847
i have the problem again whith my spindle, because i don,t can regolation the velocyty.Can please control the errror in my hal spindle file :http://www.pastebin.ca/1330847
net Scmd motion.spindle-speed-out => hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.value
that's what this line does: makes pwmgen.03.value be the same as the value made by emc on motion.spindle-speed-out
you change the relationship between that and pwm duty cycle or voltage if using an analog daughtercard using the .scale parameter
ok i prove thanks jepler
motioncontrol: is it clear to you what you want to achieve?
alex i don't understand
motioncontrol: do you have a plan?
what is it you want to do?
you said you have a gearchanger .. and that you need 2 different scales
yes my spindle have 2 gear canche.inizial my pwmscale =3000 and the spindle turn ok.now my pwmgen 1s 10.0 (ten volt) and i provle scale.0.gain value change, but the spindle load max number rpm because my hal spindle file is no correct.the my problem for two gear change i resolv after now i resol first the my non correct scale fuction
motioncontrol: try less information once at a time, I didn't understand anything
lets start with spindle speed
ok alex step by step
one moment i write
what is your spindle speed for gear 1
0..800 rpm ?
0-800 rpm first gear 800- 3000 second gear
ok, perfect so far
what is the motor rpm for gear 1? 0..800 rpm motor = 0..800 rpm spindle?
yes gear 1/1 first gear
ok, good so far
now lets move to gear 2
what is motor rpm for 800..3000 rpm spindle?
ok.. so you need 266.66 .. 1000 rpm motor
ok, lets take gear 1 now
what voltage do you need to output to have 100 rpm at the motor?
the motor at 3000 rpm want 10 volt
ok.. at 1000 rpm 10/3 volt?
3,333 at 1000 rpm
ok, so scale is 10/3000
ok alex . the problem is in my hal spindle file : i change the scale but the motor speed no change
0.00333 if my math is right
hang on, we're not there yet
first we need a plan, then we change things in the hal file
yes i chanhe the scale.0.gain , restart emc , but not fuction.i thing the some connection error in my hal spindle configuration
you have one example the spindle file fuction ok
motioncontrol: you need to understand how this works, to make it work
first we need to decide what gear it needs to be based on the commanded spindle speed
the commanded spindle speed comes from motion.spindle-speed-out
motioncontrol: let me know when something is ok, so I can go further
ok alex i understand , i prove tomorrow in my studio , because now not have the hardware with me.Thanks for all.You can go in Italy?
heh, no.. not at the moment
but so far I only talked about 10% of what you need to do
the spindle speed needs to be compared (if it's between 0 and 800, then we have lowgear, if it's larger we have high gear)
does the spindle turn backwards if you command -3v ?
my first thing is retrofit my maschine , after if Jesus want, i want study emc2 and if comunity want create the external tool for grafical halui comunication
my drives is +/- 10 volt
forward and revers automatically
so you need low gear for -800 .. 800 rpm
and high gear outside of that interval.. right?
alex excuse please wait.First the calculation , you can control my hal file, because the error not is the value , but the scale.0.gain non fuction ok.can poste my complete hal file on pastebin?
ok one moment i poste it
schematic representation of how to set DAC/pwmgen output based on a gear choice and rpm command using mux and scale: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/geared-spindle.png
in this hal file not is present two gear , but only one gear.The spindle velocity in one gera no correct .http://www.pastebin.ca/1330886
good example jepler
motioncontrol: you have hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale set to 10
yes because i have 10 for all axis
10 is 10 volt
10 means multiply by 10
if motion commands 100 rpm, scale multiplies by 10, and the pwmgen is asked for 1000%
it will probably always output 10V
except when emc2 spindle speed is 0
yes the spindle load the max velocity
m3 s10 the dac is 10 volt
m3 s100 the dac is 10 volt
m3 s1 and the dac is 10volt
because you multiply the S1 by scale (10)
no scale value at varius s spindle command
i thing at some connection pin is error
it's supposed to do that, you told it to do that
do you understand what scale does?
if you have S10 (10) as the input, and that gets multiplied by 10 (the scale value), the output will be 100
but since the DAC can only do 10V, it will be 10V
if you would have set scale to be 0.1 then the output would have been S10 x 0.1 = 1V
yes , tommorrow i rewrite my hal file , but first i go in church
that probably will give an error, because you need to put a value after setp pinname
type = 1
line 424 at http://www.pastebin.ca/1330886
my error copy in pastebin type = 1
the ddt fuction whath is?
ok alex thenks for your help and thanks at jepler for example, very very thanks for your patience
ok alex when you want go in italy for work my project (2 week), please call me and you stay in my family
heh, interesting offer, but I'm too busy at the moment.. sorry
what part of italy are you?
south of ITALY, sun and mare
you can me help retrofit 10 machine with emc
i change the control at on my maschines .In this moment i have fanuc- siemens and selca cnc.
uh oh jepler is moving in on my code projects again! :)
the hal schematic
ok no problem i wait
i guess that was just done in qcad
Alex: looks like HM2 PWM/DAC output is divided by scale:
(float rw) scale: Scaling factor to convert 'value' from arbitrary units
to duty cycle: dc = value / scale. Duty cycle has an effective range
of -1.0 to +1.0 inclusive.
so if you wanted +-3000 RPM to give +- 10V
you would set hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.03.scale
to 3000 ( at least thats what it look like to me)
did you look at 2.2.8 docs?
[19:02:23] <pcw> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/docs/man/man9/hostmot2.9?rev=18.104.22.168;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup
Thats trunk I guess
doubt if its changed
22.214.171.124 is a branch
so that's for 2.2.8
guess you're right..
scaled_value = *hm2->pwmgen.instance[i].hal.pin.value / hm2->pwmgen.instance[i].hal.param.scale;
Are spindles normally run open-loop like this?
fenn: I laboriously drew it in qcad :-P
(not that I would want to suggest such thing to motioncontrol)
(* i mean closed loop)
pcw: they're so slow and heavy they're hard to tune. with many drivers, index reset messes up the pid error input too
pcw: also if there is more than one gear, you can only tune for one (I tried it...)
can't you use different PID settings based on gear?
Sure th dynamics are different with different gear ratios
alex_joni: probably could, yes - but ick
yeah, I know..
no real benefit to all the complexity, IMO
maybe try to tune with as most common params as possible
and only have 1-2 that differ and get selected by mux'es
(I know that ick)
I tried this because I have varispeed on the lathe spindle. I thought it would be neat to be able to move them and have the speed stay correct. but it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth
for one thing, it would freak when I threaded, because the position would reset on index
might or might not be better now, with velocity estimate in the driver (if it's index-safe)
velocity should now be index independent
(Sebastian uses latch on index instead of clear on index now)
as long as velocity estimate is fed to PID and not ddt(position)
velocity estimate should always be supperior than ddt(position)
Yep, especially at low speeds
where ddt(pos) is crunchy
BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
The_Ball: he's a mix (rescue, got him when he was about 1 year old)
golden retriever, chow, sheppard?
half chiwawa, half great dane (don't ask)
a stepladder was involved in that
good night all
good night alex_joni