damm, I just busted my ass on the ice OW that smarts
i have a piece of 6061 Al that's 6" x 6" x 0.750", and i want to make it into 6x6x.400
should i use a face mill?
or a fly cutter?
whichever you have
fly cutter and face mill are the same animal
file it is then :-/
cradek: no they aren't
flycutter has one cutting edge, facemill has many
but they work the same
flycutter is only suitable for wimpy cuts, a facemill can remove material
seb_kuzminsky: what tooling do you have (and what kind of mill)?
* seb_kuzminsky clicks the "Order" button by the face mill
i have a little 150-pound benchtop mill (Sieg X2)
out of curiosity, how expensive is the facemill?
and how big?
and the starter's kit of milling cutters, nothing really appropriate
so i'm tooling up!
it's gonna take you a while to remove that much metal with an X2, regardless of what cutter you use
[01:53:32] <seb_kuzminsky> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1952&category=
that is 27 in^3 of aluminum
thats not a face mill
12 or so CI
oops, I took .75 as the material to remove
half of that ;-)
oh yeah, it even doesnt say face mill on it
* seb_kuzminsky unclicks
thats a face mill: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/facemil1.jpg
[01:55:01] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/facemil3.jpg
a bit much for an X2
looks like it outweighs my vise ;-)
lol, that's more than my Y travel
for this 6x6 job, is your goal simply to remove the material, or do you need a very good finish, etc?
Fly cutter that I have --> http://www.cleavelandtool.com/catalog/webFC53.jpg
i dont need super finish, or great tolerances
but from Sears
for the best finish you normally would use a flycutter or facemill wide enough to do it in one pass so there is no possibility of a ridge
I would go buy a .5" piece of aluminum
scarry shit too!
that "flycutter" is for making holes in sheet metal (or non-metals), not for facing stuff
jmkasunich: the grumpy old machinist guy at work said to get a facemill with carbide inserts
jmkasunich: Yeah, I get scared shitless just using it in wood/plastic... I'll be damn if I try it on metal
failing that, I would just use an end mill
it's a hole saw
seb_kuzminsky: grumpy is right
SWPadnos: you're a holesaw! =)
watch it! :)
I have no experience with X2 sized machines tho, dunno how big of a facemill it could swing
SWPadnos: DRILL YOU! And the spindle you spun in on!
x2 flycutter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koYGLVGkRsI
the X2 facemill capacity is listed as 1" in the specs
I like the K-Tool face mill, but it is 1.5"
(and not cheap)
[02:00:49] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIJNvh22qx4
eric_unterhausen: that's a tormach, not an x2
chinese steel is chinese steel
eric_unterhausen: the tormach is 1100 lbs of chinese steel
X2 is quite a bit less than that
[02:02:30] <jmkasunich> http://www.ktoolinc.com/octa/octa-mills/octa-mill.html
ktool sells smakker face mills
thx, i'll check it out
be sitting when you ask for pricing - the 1.5" one is about $175
is the x2 like the one that Jon Elson carries around for demos?
but they _are_ nice cutters
with the sheet metal column?
seb_kuzminsky: how much does your X2 weigh (roughly)?
1/2" thick sheet metal column
about 150 lbs
[02:05:25] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.siegind.com/Products/br-x2-lathe.htm
you might want the OC-875 octamill for that machine
* seb_kuzminsky doesnt know why sieg put "lathe" in the url
can it accept tooling with 3/4" shanks?
1100 pounds of bench mill, that is a heck of a bench
yes, it's got a standard r8 spindle
jmkasunich: yes the -875 or -1000 should work
I have the OC-1575, thats the one in the vids
note the number of inserts, 2, in the 875, 3 in the 1000
You can make your PCNC 1100 more effective by adding a CNC Stand, because machining on your knees is pretty tiring
mine has 2
how do the inserts work? i've never used insert-based tooling
three means more $ for inserts, but it might cut a bit smoother
you buy the right kind of replacements and swap them when they get dull?
after turning to use all the edges i guess
sounds easier than grinding the flutes :-)
they are making wood jointer/planers with indexable tooling nowadays, that's a lot of inserts
I got a tour of a Ford engine plant many years ago (pre-1991, don't recall exactly)
that octa-mill would go in a 3/4" collet i guess
they had a machine that broached the top and bottom of the engine blocks
what's the tradeoff between that and getting one with an r8 shank?
basically a giant moving wall of carbide cutters
is the octamill available with R8?
it would be cool to put a joint at the bottom of the X2 column
i dont see one
seb_kuzminsky: so its a moot point, eh?
an r8 version should have less runout and fewer headaches
that broach at Ford completely machined the top of a block in one stroke - both head surfaces (V8), and both intake manifold surfaces (in the valley)
jmkasunich: there are other vendors, here's one: http://stegmantoolcompany.thomasnet.com/viewitems/ide-inserts-indexable-tooling-indexable-face-mills/ace-milling-cutter-rh-cut-with-r8-and-weldon-shank?&forward=1
maybe 15-20 seconds
jmkasunich: that sounds pretty impressive... did you get to see it running?
they were doing production while we walked thru
one stroke, top machined, then it flips the block and moves it to the lower half of the moving wall of cutters, and puts a new block at the top
next stroke machines the entire bottom of the first block and the top of the next one
must have been several thousand inserts
each insert takes off a couple thousands, then the next insert takes a couple more, etc?
and they replace them all at the end of the shift?
[02:14:40] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/N2DRVSH?PACACHE=000000083864253
I dunno how often
what's the difference between all the different kinds of inserts?
seb_kuzminsky: it boggles the mind
I don't come close to understanding them all
"the good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from"
I have personal experience with the octomill (high positive rake), can't speak about others
what's the diff between an indexable face mill and an indexable end mill?
(unified diff if you please)
* jmkasunich watching engine blocks
thanks for the pointers guys
dunno if this is the "accepted" definition, but it seems to me that face mills make wide but shallow cuts, endmills tend to be narrower and deeper
facemill, 1" wide x 1/8" deep, or 4" wide x 1/4" deep, etc
endmills can generally cut with the end or the side, whereas facemills can only cut with the "face"
HOLY SHIT! That's one hell of a fly cutter in that video!!!
for a small machine I'd make or buy a fly cutter that takes a 1/4 or 3/8 lathe bit. just grind up the shape you want. do you have a bench grinder?
Jymm you mean the facemills near the end?
an endmill also depends on its shape to affect the shape of the milled hole, but a facemill or flycutter depends on the fact that a spinning thing will inscribe a circle that's in a perfectly flat plane (vibration notwithstanding)
I still maintain that flycutters and facemills are the same, except for the number of teeth in the cut
a small machine has enough trouble making one chip at a time
jmkasunich: Where they are facing off the the top of the cylender head
by that logic, endmills and facemills are the same too
cradek, yeah, and maybe some stiffness differences
if you have enough teeth that you can keep one in the cut at all times, it is smoother
jmkasunich: except for diameter and centercutting ability, they are the same
the machine can actually settle down and start cutting, instead of cut, coast, cut, coast
jmkasunich: true but on a small machine I bet a flycut finish might still be better
jmkasunich, yeah, I guess so
if only because sharp HSS is better than almost any insert for low power
finish could be better, but gawd it would take forever
it only has to be faster than finding some 1/2 plate :-)
on the van norman, the difference between just starting a cut (intermittent cutting) and bedded in and working (many teeth) is dramatic
yes, on the bridgeport too
emphasized by the gear noise during the intermittent part
but his machine is more like a sherline than a bridgeport
on the VN, the only limit I've seen so far with the facemill is spindle HP
the 1.5HP VFD will trip on overload before the machine gets unhappy
heh - after 12 cubic inches, the HSS won't be sharp anymore
a flycutter is variable diameter too! might be handy.
seb_kuzminsky: the budget approach is a flycutter, but not like that weird hole-saw thing
more like this:
[02:27:33] <jmkasunich> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=225-3030&PMPXNO=947281&PARTPG=INLMK3
if you have a bench grinder and know how to use it...
but it will be slow - you gotta keep surface speed down to at most a couple hundred SFPM, which isn't much in RPM as the diameter goes up
as RPM goes down, feed has to drop, since cut-per-tooth wants to remain constant
and you wind up crawling
the carbide tools let you keep the speed up
it all depends on your budget I guess
the $20 flycutter will get you there, but will take quite a while, with several stops to regrinde
I bet the K-tool will remove metal 10x faster
heh, the octomill costs the same as the enco flycutter, a bench grinder, and a big pile of tool bits
I'm not surprised
made in the USA, and designed for production use
that's not nothing...
the right decision depends on a lot of things
how often do you expect to have to make things flat
whether you just want to get this job done, or if you really are "tooling up" and want to spend some extra $$ to get the good stuff
its a shame you can't try things first
it's cheaper to buy good tools the first time around, than to buy cheap crap *then* buy the good stuff ;-)
is your X2 CNC'ed already?
yeah, that would be a risk of buying a face mill
my x2 is in all its virgin manual glory still
making the parts for a cnc conversion is "on the todo list"
that makes things even more confusing
on the one hand, you have literally hours and hours of cranking ahead of you if you flycut
so taking off 6x6x.5 in .010 increments will give me strong fore-arms ;-)
on the other, the facemill will want proper feed per tooth - you won't be cranking nearly as long, but you will have to do it at roughly the right speed
given the manual machine, you seriously should go get a piece of aluminum the right size
maybe i should go raid the scrap pile at work
how important is the 0.400", would 3/8" work?
seb_kuzminsky: come on by, I'll cut you a piece
6 x 6 x 3/8 6061-T651 plate is $23.67 at metal express
cradek: the roadtrip might be cheaper than jmk's facemill ;-)
I think I even have some weird Al plate close to .400
seb_kuzminsky: and more fun
seb_kuzminsky: how much was the facemill? 1" or 7/8" ?
the target is actually 3/8 so i should just buy that
(and how did you get an answer so soon - I had to call a dealer)
just poking around the comparables (near as i could tell) on MSC
not a fair comparison, i know
I bet it isn't quite that bad, I was quoted $175 for the 1.5"
but still, I bet it would be $150
plus inserts, are they expensive?
anyway.... 3/8 x 6" flat bar (not the same as plate) is $12.74 for a 6" piece
I think it includes the inserts
what's flat bar vs plate?
they are $10-15 each when you need to replace them, but in home shop use that should be after multiple years
flatbar is extruded, the corners are a bit rounded, and the sides may not be extremely flat
plate is much flatter, and they can cut it to whatever size you want
ok i'm convinced: scrounge or buy the right size raw material & save up for good tooling later
metal express isn't local for you, but their website can be educational
[02:42:31] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalexpress.net
click products, then aluminum
right, i see it
that does seem like a good price
wonder if their $5 "handling" charge includes shipping? prolly not
no, shipping depends on weight and distance
are you closer to chicago or dallas?
i would guess dallas
i'm near denver, co
I know, but my geography sucks
mine too, but google's is pretty good ;-)
I would call your "local" office - their prices do not track the web, and my experience is that they are cheaper
even if it is going to be shipped
"local" meaning nearest?
I sometimes have them ship, and sometimes pick up, depending on weight mostly
thanks for setting me straight again
another supplier - I haven't dealt with them: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=60&step=2&top_cat=60
looks like metalmart is cheaper for the bar
$9.60 for a 6" piece (cut to order), or $14.43 for a foot
and $19.80 for 6x6 plate
I might have to give them a try next time
wow, the new MillSetup wiki page mshaver made is going to be useful to folks I bet
a lot of useful concepts all together
can anyone tell me the diameter of a RPGT 1204MOT-ME07 insert?
with 7 inserts?
RPGT I get, but for IC diameter it isn't 1 (eighths) or 12 (eighths) so I'm lost already
20 degree rake, 0.003 width, 15 degree angle
whatever that means
.003 width of what?
(and where did you find this?)
oh wait, diameter is 0.472, s (whatever that is) is .187
[03:17:08] <SWPadnos> http://legacy.secotools.com/upload/north_america/usa/pdf/Milling%20inserts%20265-323.pdf
.472, of course
darn, I'd rather it be smaller
so it's not in eighths like the other shapes
got a link to that wiki? or is it in linuxcnc wiki?
THanks Seb - I was having trouble finding it
matt shaver posted the link to the emc-users mailing list, that's where i got it
sorry, I didn't mean to be coy, I figured since you mentioned the wiki it was only one click away for you
also you could find it by searching for "millsetup" on the wiki (though searching for "mill setup" with a space doesnt find it...)
oh - bout 20 or so - gave me a reason to look at some other topics
I like to use the recently-changed search
downloaded the spreadsheet to do the stepper calcs - paint is drying - tomorrow I dive back in to setup
i compulsively hit "reload" on the RecentChanges page every morning
Nice primer - bookmarking that
yeah that's a nice "quick start" kind of overview, much appreciated
yes it tackles offsets heads-on
I think people try to avoid learning about them
I did an offset once and never could figure out how to clear it - kept gettng interrupted everytime I tried to research it )
finally hand edited the var fileto clear it
I still think we should rot13 the var file
use rot26, it's twice as secure
gnna have to resolve this calc sheet to tell me how fast I can go rather than tell it how fast I want to go
doh - I guess I could use the solver function - nice open spreadsheets
[04:16:59] <skunkworksemc> http://imagebin.ca/view/beYceh.html
skunkworksemc: that's just amazing.
We could send this to mars.. Mission critical ;)
thats what - 3 days I think
skunkworks: what's the hardware that's running on?
It is a ecs goal3+ motherboard with a amd athlon 64 processor 3200+
model name: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+
I've had good luck with my athlon too (in the lathe)
I've never seen the latency error since getting the right video card in there
heh - this is a no-name ati chipset pci-e video card.
I have not played with enough amd machines to have a feeling for them. This one is awesome.
time for bed - night.
you turn the athlon to improve it? :D
cradek: you have pci millenium?
yes I think all my emc machines have ended up with a matrox of some kind
I gotta dig out some of my 486 machines with those video cards in them
hm, 486 != pci, are you sure?
would you believe 66 MHz pentium?
recently I dug up parts and assembled a 486 scsi system so I could install this, the first Linux distribution I ever used: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/yggdrasil-beta.jpg
yes it's a photo of the monitor, I couldn't hook the coax ethernet to anything nowadays
fenn: did you do the hexapod vismach? I had no idea the hexapod kins worked that well
Mmmm Yggdrasil CD's
* JymmmEMC waves his 8Bit ISA SCSI card at cradek
...with fdd control built in
it's your all-in-one i/o solution
Yeah, now I just want *ALL* I/O to be ethernet... No firewire, no usb, no vgs,rgb,dvi,hdmi, serial, parallel, scsi,sata, etc... All ethernet IPv6. Then you can give an Ip address to the toaster AND the toilet, and address anything you want directly
Oh, and PoE if you can do that with gigabit (not sure)
And, every device should have it's drivers built in. No more dl'ing or installing drivers, let the system pull the drivers from the device directly
If you were a gamer, you could have a bunch of random monitors on the network, and address and control anyone of them over the net. that be so cool!
Plug a hdd into the net, PoE and instant NAS.
no more freakin walworts!
no pairs free on GigE to do PoE
because i know my toilet needs to be on twitter
That's what I thought... http://18.104.22.168/search?q=cache:Te5IfLoYO8sJ:www.i-tech.com.au/products/12473_LINKSYS_SRW2008P_Gigabit_PoE_8_Port.aspx+gigabit+poe&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
toastyde1th: if you're on twitter, you have other issues!
you can learn stuff from making ethernet cables yourself ;)
like, for instance, that you should buy them whenever possible
instead of screaming at an inanimate object for ten minutes
or just learn how to crimp cables properly
crimping cables is easy
it's getting the stupid wires in the little slots and having them stay there that is the crappy part
JymmmEMC, you can do PoE with gigabit, it uses phantom power over the signal pairs, well their all active pairs on gigabit
is ';' acceptable as a comment in gcode ?
I don't remember correctly and in docs there is no info
comments are silly syntax
yes but someone added alternative syntax
silly because (print......) is not a comment
(LOG,...) (LOGOPEN,..) (DEBUG,..) and so on
I know them, maybe silly but they working great ;)
I hate click a window on each msg
in 2.3 you don't have to click
in a 2 months
but is has it messages IN the wrong area
on pyvcp panel ?
needs a scrollable box
needed for debugging gcode (for us hand crafters of code)
by hand? what are you making then ?
on what machines ?
4 axis mill
clock gears, helicals gears and escape wheels
[09:53:43] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/user/davethearchivist
I need 5 axis
and you making program for THIS by hand ?
yes, dont know any other way yet
did you searching any cam for this ?
I have looked at some but they are 3 axis
and they all seem to assume an end mill not the shaped tools I use
hole in market I see
Im tending to produce standardised gcode to handle multiple standard forms
yeah i've just got up!
so it is for me
archivist i managed to get my VFD running completly from EMC2 last night, even the motor speed is right!!
good, time I did mine
it is excellent indeed
i'm using stepgen to generate a pulse train that drives the vfd
so it is giving a 0 to 6KHz output for 0 to 6000 rpm
I have a 0-10 volt in in the VFD so should be easy enough
ah yes i thought about using a 0-10V
with the pwm out but cant decide if it would be better than pulse train
six f one half a dozen of the other
archivist: one nice idea would be to have another tab besides preview and DRO which holds the error log
something like that alex_joni
that's one of the very few features I like in mini
or an additional panel/box
additional should probably be a file
nah needs to be live on screen, file as well would be ok
if your (print...s) are in a subroutine there can be a lot
"tail -f" ftw :D
or well.. a GUI analog to that
one is watching the machine and the prints at the same time
some times Im re cutting previous work
archivist, for crafting 5-axis g-code this might help: http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/
I haven't tried it myself, but when I finish my trunnion table I will give it a go
shame its not open source
i hadn't looked into it, i wasn't aware it wasn't
"The CNC Tookit is currently free for non-commercial use, but please consider purchasing it or making a donation if you find it useful. "
bah and needs a signup to yahoo to download!!!
Claudi1: ask away..
hello, yesterday i asked how to increase the m66 motion digital in and chris or jeff told me that the only thing that i can do is to edit and recompile the source code for the modmot.ko module, well i'm very new on linux so i was wondering if any of you could give me a little help
Claudi1: how many do you need?
i think 16 would be enough
Claudi1: ok, you need to get the source for emc2 first
hang on for a link
yes i got it already
[12:36:51] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_6_06_or_8_04_from_source
how did you get it? using cvs? or download?
i donwloaded with cvs
what version did you get?
i found the source files and the ones that have the digital i/o number but the problem is to compile that because i never used C compilers in linux so i need a simple solution if it exists
and i was thinking in recompile only the motmod module and then reeplace it in the modules dir i don't know if that would work
do you have a terminal open?
i'll open one
Claudi1: type "sudo apt-get build-dep emc2"
this will take a while for download..
Claudi1: then you'll need "sudo apt-get install build-essential"
then paragraph 2.4 from here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Building_emc2_realtime
I cannot help myself.. http://imagebin.ca/view/oVW-cLN8.html
* archivist thinks its the same picture each time
alex, what shall i do when all of this get installed ?
jepler_ is now known as jepler
or better i tell you when the installation finish
ok alex, im ready
did you run the compile as instructed in paragraph 2.4 from the page I linked?
no, wait i'll do it
i have a doubt, in wich src dir i have to make this ?
in the one of the donwloaded cvs emc ?
get a clean compile before any modification
i have it
Claudi1: yes, in the src of the downloaded 2.2.8
thanks, is compiling it now
i've already tried to compile the source of the emc but when i executed ./configure... it said that tcl lib were not available or something like that.. now that hasn,t ocurred, is that because i installed the two packages that you told me ?
ok i've done all the commands in the 2.4 paragraph
Claudi1: you can now run emc2 from the fresh compiled sources
check 2.7 there
ok, it worked
Claudi1: if that works, then try changing the source of emc2/src/emc/motion/cmcmotcfg.h to have the number of EMCMOT_MAX_DIO and MAX_AIO that you need
then go to src/ folder and run "make"
after that you can run emc2 again (the same way) and you should see the increased number of motion inputs
before i do that i have to close the emc2 that i have executed ?
before you run it again, yes
(you can edit the file and recompile while it's still running, that doesn't hurt)
ok ill try to change the digital i/o and i tell you what happens
it may be that some of the following definitions must also be changed:
src/emc/nml_intf/emc_nml.hh:#define EMC_AUX_MAX_DOUT 4// digital out bytes
src/emc/nml_intf/emc_nml.hh:#define EMC_AUX_MAX_DIN 4// digital in bytes
src/emc/nml_intf/emcglb.h:#define EMC_MAX_DIO 4
src/emc/nml_intf/emcglb.h:#define EMC_MAX_AIO 4
ok, it worked and also i tried to link the new motion digital ins to the parport pins and it worked, thank you very much, now one more thing
what step should i follow to install the emc definitly with the changes applied ?
Claudi1: hmm.. that's a bit trickier
one (very simple) thing to do is simply copying the file emc2/rtlib/motmod.ko to /usr/realtime-*/modules/emc2
rename the old file, and copy the new one there
you need "sudo" or root access to be able to do this
and where is the motmod.ko module that i edited?
but when emc2 will upgrade your changed file will be overwritten
I just typed that.. emc2/rtlib/motmod.ko
thanks i found it, so i have to do everything in the console.. i want to know, can i compile this to a .deb file to install it whenever i need it ?
because we have many machines to apply this config
how many? :)
now 2 thar are working manually
and we have to automate them
Claudi1: the next version of emc2 (2.3.0) will already have this fix
one is a cam grinder and the other one is a cilindrical grinder
but it will be a bit before it's release
probably ~2 months
yes, but i just wanted to try because may be we could automate the machines before the new version comes out
so it depends on you if you want to build a deb now or not
ok, guess the answer is "lets build a deb ;)"
to build a debian package with a change you made is several steps: run "dch -n" and type a message that describes the change you made. then run "debian/configure -r". then run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us". This will create some .deb packages in the directory above the "emc2" directory.
dch is from the package "devscripts", if you don't have it yet
and he probably needs fakeroot too
sudo apt-get install fakeroot devscripts
yes probably so
i red in a forum or something about a package that generates the deb installer with the command check install
Claudi1: yes, that's common to use if the program has no support for debian
but emc2 has support for building debian packages, so you shouldn't use checkinstall
go to the top source dir (say emc2)
then run the commands jepler just pasted
ok, ill do it
i have a problem with the fakeroot thing
everything else worked
alex already wrote the answer
well, that generated a tar.gz file so it would work
i am very much obliged to you guys for this, it really helped me thanks
a tar.gz doesn't really help
you need to see a .deb
can i use the command checkinstall ?
no, the command you used above should have built 2 deb files
what was the last message?
Sin información para convertir los archivos de formato gif a png.
Defina un convertidor en las preferencias.
make: *** [../docs/src/Master_User.pdf] Error 1
make: se sale del directorio `/home/marsaglia/emc2.2.8/src'
make: *** [build-stamp] Error 2
dpkg-buildpackage: fallo: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
sudo apt-get install imagemagick
then run the dpkg-buildpackage again
thanks again alex, let me try and i tell you
again a tar.gz file
Claudi1: it's normal if it builds the tar.gz
it should also build a deb
probably another error like above
could be that i don't have some .deb package for building?
i checked again, now the .deb was created
thanks for everything, i have to go, we'll talk later
"< cradek> did you do the hexapod vismach?" yeah it's fun isnt it? i like how it bounces off the end of travel (z=0) but notice how the struts don't point exactly at the cardan joints.. thats the bug in vismach::Track i'm trying to fix
the formula i originally used for finding a/b angle coordinates was wrong
another noob machining question...
i'm thinking about how to make this:
[15:58:02] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.hossmachine.info/images/belt%20conversion%20motor%20plate.jpg
it's the one on the far left here:
[15:58:17] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.hossmachine.info/images/belt%20conversion%206_800x600.jpg
should i make the big (2.7" diameter) hole with a boring bar in the mill?
start by drilling up to the biggest drill bit i have
then expand in steps using a boring head & bar?
blue the plate and scribe the circle with a compass
then drive your end mill around in a mostly-circular way to get the bulk of the material out
then switch to the boring head to make it round again
otherwise you'll be boring for a year
that makes sense, thanks
or, use a rotary table and end mill
that's the better way, surely
* archivist uses rotary table some times for that sort of work
but you can sure rough a circle manually if you don't have a rotary.
is a rotary table still useful after the cnc conversion? i guess i could cnc the rotary and use it as a 4th axis
sure is I use the rotary a lot
not too useful unless you want to do cylindrical stuff
you probably don't have the Z travel to use much of a vertical rotary though
seb_kuzminsky hi, i just made a motor mount almost the same; http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/3ph_motor_mount_ali1.jpg
that looks nice pjm_ !
get an angle plate and put the rotary on that
pjm_: I bet it wouldn't have so many nice round corners if you had to cut it manually :-)
seb_kuzminsky thanks, it was done with a 5mm FC3 cutter only
i dread to think how long it would take on a manual mill
very nicely done
i'll tell you in about a few years ;-)
I don't see flats on the arc reversals. your machine must be tight.
thanks! well it was EMC2 that did all the hard work, i just drank cups of tea and watched it ;-)
does it even have to be a circle? could just be a square hole i bet
cradek there is a lot of slop in the axis ;-( about 0.002" on X and 0.003" on Y
i bet you're right: http://www.hossmachine.info/images/IMG_0291_800x600.jpg
a pulley goes under that plate
motors have a circular register
yeah I think the circle is part of the mount. the screws look small.
seb_kuzminsky my machine is a home made contraption
here's the mating surface on the motor: http://www.hossmachine.info/images/IMG_0288_800x600.jpg
seb_kuzminsky some pics of it http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
x2 head at least right?
seb_kuzminsky: is that slot for pivoting around the .250 hole?
seb_kuzminsky it was a mini-mill head from 'little machine shop'
cradek: yes, for swinging the motor back to tighten the drive belt
hm, would be much better as an arc then
it's designed to be made without cnc (or a rotary, i guess)
yeah, very hard to do manually
maybe i'll ask pjm_ for his drawing after i finally get mine cnc-converted, and upgrade the spindle motor mount then :-D
seb_kuzminsky all the stuff is in http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam
ftw! thanks :-)
[16:09:24] <pjm_> http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/3ph_motor_mount.jpg
is the actual screenshot from the cam soft
help yourself to anything in there! (usual caveats apply - i'm not an engineer)
how you like cambam?
well its easy, and a dummy like me can use it ;-)
to be honest i've not tried any others, it was the first one in the list when i was googling
it did have some annoyances, but I discovered that was down to user error
i.e. I didnt know about 'post processors'
anyway, having corrected the user-error, it is now excellent! and I use it for everything i need to make
seb_kuzminsky: if you're creative you can pivot on the hole and drive the rotation with a long handle attached firmly to the workpiece
preferably you could set up some kind of mounting that doesn't let the cutter lift the workpiece
also, be sure to use 2 or 3 flute end mill for slotting (cutting on both sides of the mill at once), never 4
(sorry if I tell you stuff you already know - I don't know how much machining you have done before)
cradek: just curious, why never a 4 flute cutter for slotting?
* jst_home_ has not done a lot of machining before
2 flute slot drill can plunge
it cuts in the center
4 flute usually does as well, what happens though is there's very little chip clearance in a 4 flute
toastatwork: as, that makes sense
so once you're slotting, the chips tend to clog the flutes, or worse, get stuck in front of the tooth
and then the tooth squeezes the chip instead of cutting something, and it breaks
and yeah, most of my 4 flute end mills cut in the center
* jst_home_ has to run
cutting previous chips cause poor finish
I think it's because 2/3 flute mills are either cutting the front or the sides, never both at once. a 4 flute will be pushed sideways by cutting in front, but there is a tooth to dig in to the side of the cut when that happens
if you try both you will see that 2 flute works much much better than 4 when slotting.
2 flute is also pushed sideways
all endmills are
only use 4 flute when side milling and cutting less than half the cutter width
toastatwork: yes, but there is no flute to dig in to the side wall and mess it up when that happens
i slot all the time with 4 flute
the difference has been chip evacuation
when you have a high volume coolant flood, there's no difference between 2/4 flute slotting
how large diameter of mills are you talking?
1/8th, usually, but sometimes up to 1-1/2"
you slot with 1/8 4 flute? hmm, I wouldn't expect that to work very well. what material and how deep?
(I like 3 flute the best of all, but unfortunately there aren't plentiful cheap imported ones)
I slot with 1/8 4 flute but DOC ain't much :) and gotta have a sharp one... except for 6061 I use a 2 flute carbide one
cradek aluminum and stainless steel
less often, mild carbon
depth is .070-.125
but if the coolant dies off, the endmill only has a couple seconds before the chips pile up and snap it
airblast has worked too, on machines that don't have the coolant volume
but i don't have all that much experience with airblast
that's something I've been wanting to try for aluminum
I have a lot of air available now
not sure if in the end it would be any less of a mess to clean up :-)
it's a huge mess to clean up if you don't have an enclosure
Im only going to about .04 deep and in brass without the luxury of coolant, I have to puff the chips, not snapped one yet
but if you can even make like an mdf cap for your machine, it makes a huge difference
I just have air on the mill
the airblast does, that is, not the cap
archivist: brass is sure nice to cut
this was interesting, thanks, I didn't think there would be debate about that.
slotting, number of flutes
cradek, brass can be nice but there are some less nice varieties
cast brass we get is a bit sticky
try quenching it?
brass and heat treatment and quenching brings up another can of worms
Not exactly on topic: Does anybody know a source for ready made spacer plates for stepper motors (NEMA 34 in this case)? What I mean is a plate that has flat, parallel sides, through holes for the 4 mounting screws, a hole in the center to clear the shaft, a bore on one side to accept the spigot on the face of the motor, and a matching spigot on the other side that mimics the one on the motor to fit in the bore on the original moto
well, of course worms are going to be a bit sticky
mshaver, you got cut off after "fit in the bore on the original moto"
mshaver, they come off your mill or lathe :)
I thikn maybe we only missed one "r" though
* archivist missed an or
fit in the bore on the original motor mount. Thickness needed is about 1/4". What I need to do is replace rigid shaft couplings with flexible ones, but the flexible couplings are longer and I need to move the motor farther away axially from the end of the ball screw to accommodate the extra length of the flexible coupling. Of course, I'm in a vomiting hurry to do this...
there's a character limit?
thick 1/4" tall standoffs
per line, there is
all of us, but you
how many do you need?
if you have a multiline entry option, you can enter more stuff, but it will be throttled (per line)
mshaver: can't you just use short cylinder standoffs on each screw?
1 or 2 now, 10-20 sooner or later
like the "unthreaded spacers" from hardware stores
all you really need is a piece of reasonably heavy tube that's cut to length
though a plate does look better
Re: spacers: It would work, but leave a gap between the original motor mount and the face of the motor, into which chip & stuff could get.
duct tape! :)
those would sure be easier to make, but you lose the location by the motor stickout
the tube idea I like
square tube about NEMA34 size :)
but cradek is right, you lose the location boss from the botor face
tube can have the register machined
that would be seriously thick walled tube
well, I could get thick wall tube and bore one end to fit the motor spigot and the other to fit in the bore of the original mount
nah just the right size tube
I'm thinking a round tube
mshaver, I haven't found any on google, and it seems all the suggestions here are on how to fabricate them easier :)
yeah round tube would be better
the screws on the outside could have sleeves over them
spacers and tape to hide the ga[
which avoids the question of whether they're available to buy
getting four sleeves and one tube the same length sounds harder than making it from plate
no just one tube and long screws
archivist: I actually thought of spacers and a ring of giant heat shrink tubing
mshaver, or tin plate and a clamp
yeah if you could get by with the screws being exposed, it's easy
* archivist has some nude screws
and if you use clear heat shrink (or packing tape) you get to see the motor spinning around
oo CNC porn, pics plz
cradek: yes, the sleeves I was thinking of would be just decorative. Shorter by .010"-.020" than the actual spacer.
easy to fit the coupling in the gap prior to putting the cover on
I can probably do without the screw covers ;)
Thanks for the suggestions! Many brains make, uh, easy thinking?
nobody answered your question :-)
no answer was, in a way, an answer
and it's a new product idea for someone!
bench grinder, meet motor shaft
you might search for "transition plates"
that's a term I just found while searching
but they're generally for adapting NEMAxxx to NEMAyyy
(which is what I need, so if you have any adapters for NEMA34 mounts -> NEMA42 motors, let me know :) )
cradek: I thought of that, but if someone wanted a replacement motor in the future... Also, I'm afraid of heating the rotor and its magnets.
yeah, not sure how serious I was, but the solution does come to mind
SWPadnos: I've made those before.
oh look, all the critical dimensions in one PDF: http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/in/tl-in002_-en-p.pdf
SWPadnos: printing that for the guy who'll have to make something up to impress upon him the seriousness of the task.
I imagine the big issue for fabrication is concentricity of the locating boss/well
seems like you could just mill the female one and invert it over a male attached to the table to do the other side
yep, if you're doing it on a mill
thats why I think tube wins as that can be done correctly on a lathe
I was thinking of lathe setups
once you get the center bored out, you have a good locating hole anyway, so tube vs. plate should be a non-issue
archivist: that's true but it really wants to be square :-/
male spigot is part of parting off
* archivist grumbles at a fail to connect to http://literature.rockwellautomation.com
I think I'll take the rest of the day off :)
BigJohnT, ask the boss first if you can have time off
I'm the boss today
Im off for a few days next week
talk to you guys later :)
uh oh - looks like I lost internet at home.
i just lost internet at home too - comcast cable in boulder colorado
Guest575 is now known as skunkworks
cradek: thanks for the machining suggestions above, i learned something today :-)
good evening.some day before i poste one question for use the hm2_pci driver with two card in one pc, but i have now the problem.when i load the m5i20 old driver the emc load ok, but whit hm2_pci driver emc is in error.
you can hel me
well i can try - first i need to know what error you're getting
ok i have connection pc development at intertent and is possible test immediately i copy in pastebin the error, one moment
[18:52:10] <motioncontrol> http://pastebin.ca/1329248
is that with 2.2.8?
yes with 2.2.8
i have compile with debian
and rtai 3.6
ok that's a bug in the hostmot2 driver in 2.2.8, there are two ways to fix it
either upgrade to trunk (check out trunk via cvs, and compile it)
or change your config so you enable at least one encoder
the encoder's pins would still be available to you as input gpio pins, you just can't switch them to be outputs
i dont't know this step
change num_encoders=0 to num_encoders=1
for the second card
in your hal file
ok i reboot because the raltime not unload
updating to TRUNK is probably the better approach though, there are several fixes there, including this one
which upgrade to trunk?
your cvs checkout
cvs up -dpA in your checkout directory
motioncontrol: did you compile from source? or install the .deb debian package?
it's on lenny SMP, I'm betting compiled :)
i want compile the source
we want you to, too ;-)
SWPadnos: oh yeah good point
one moment i traslate
ok i want compile because i want create the addon with labview in emc
* seb_kuzminsky coughs
* SWPadnos dislikes labview a lot
labview is a little like our HAL, right? i havent really played with it
i working whit labview and i create in c and labview one cnc control with interpreter iso and i/O profibus(www.flexmotioncnc.com)
i dont' understand cvs procedure , excuse but i know linux only one mounth
HAL and LabView have a similar dataflow / module connection concept, but they're vastly different
existing HAL modules offer a tiny subset of what LabView offers
LabView realtime doesn't work anywhere near as well as HAL realtime
ok i want use labview for read and write in halui interface
you thing is possible?
do you have LabView for Linux?
yes i have lab 8.2 for linux
then it's probably possible
ok SW when i start the progect if you want you can collaboration with me
no thanks :)
I really don't like LabView, and I don't have any version for Linux
in fact, the latest version I have is 8.0.1
ok no problem .SWPadnos i dont't understank trunk procedure
so I wouldn't even be able to load any examples you made, and you wouldn't be able to save them so I could
[19:11:37] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
very long procedure.not exist one ftp on the ultimate source debug?
getting the source is only one part of the process
you also need to compile it, and for that you need to have certain things installed on your system
motioncontrol: didnt you already compile 2.2.8 from source?
most of the procedure there is about installing CVS, compilers, and other dependencies
which only needs to be done once
excuse for my ignorance. i have compile the sorce emc2.2.8 with no problem.i want the new source the emc2 with new fixed and i compile egual at emc2.2.8
i have download 2.2.8 pakage and i have compile it
the cvs is the new version the emc?
the code in CVS is the current development code
so it's the latest you can get
ok exist the site or ftp for dowload the ultimate code?
motioncontrol: yes, it's the cvs site that SWPadnos gave you
that has the absolute latest version of the code
if you go to http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/
you can download a tarball of the emc2 code
go to the emc2/ module, and there will be a tarball link at the bottom of the page
ok very thank i dowload tar file and i dearchive it and compile it.this version have the utimate fixed ?
it is the latest
there may still be bugs
got to go. good luck
thanks for all and good work
ok i restart and i have modification the encoder line at ! for second card and start all ok
one thing to be aware of is that some hostmot2 things in HAL are different in 2.2.8 and Trunk
specifically, the name of the hm2 gpios changed between 2.2.8 and trunk
seb excuse in cvs site i not see the tar archive but the tree structure the emc .
in 2.2.8 the names include the connector and the io number (from the mesa manual), but in trunk they just have the io number
so if you have any hal files that work with the gpios, those might need to be updated (just remove the connector name from the gpio hal names)
i thing no problem the name connector because the pin is progressive input and after output.i dont't know the step for change the name pin
seb which change the name pin associate
i dont't have dowload cvs version.i have modification my emc2.2.8 version for start 2 card with hm2_pci driver.i have modification line encoder at 1 for second card
seems like i better get to work on a graphical hal configurator before people start making sub-optimal solutions
fenn: what specifically?
there are a lot of different middle grounds between stepconf and "well, I guess you'd better write 600 lines of hal files in your text editor, then". I thin kthat's what fenn is talking about.
something like a circuit layout tool
probably steal some code from liquidpcb.org
good evening. i dont't see on the http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/
, the cvs version compress in ter file.which dowload all directory ?
excuse i rewrite .tar file
you did not look very hard. it is at the bottom of the page.
"Download this directory in tarball"
fenn: I wanted to try that out but I wasn't able to get it to build on hardy. cmake couldn't find some file related to freetype. Were you able to build it? what system?
fenn: seems like that's an enduring vision for a hal configurator. It would be neat.
excuse my ignorance
fenn: as someone who programmed for many years before learning to read an electronics schematic, let me assure you that schematics appear totally impenetrable to a newbie.
motioncontrol: sorry, I didn't intend to be mean
this will have lots of words in english, not circuit symbols
schematics are much easier to read then any code
schematics make sense, code barely does
no problem my ignoranse is true, because i known linux and emc only 1 mounth
like this but less pictures http://www.webteacher.ws/img/aviary/peacock.jpg
and more wires :)
maddash is now known as Guest26053
ds3: I assure you it's totally a matter of what you're familiar with. I'm not saying that code is easy; I'm saying that at a certain point in learning about electronics, code made a lot more sense than schematics to me
there's a lot of 'idiomatic circuits' in schematics
things like pullup resistor, or RC filter
nobody bothers explaining them and you're just like "why are there capacitors and resistors everywhere!"
ok i have dowload the cvs version recompile on debian 2.6.22 kernel and rtai 3.6 and load the firmware on 2 m5i20 card. fuction all ok very tanks
excuse my english : very thanks
even programming started out with "schematics" (flow charts and such)
huh, never heard of "funopen" before. doesn't look like linux actually has funopen :( http://www.digipedia.pl/man/fwopen.3.html
I guess I'll have to switch to bsd