I keep trying to type 'explode' to 'ripup' in eagle. I think I did to much autocad when I was younger.
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[Global Notice] Hi all. One of our sponsors appears to have had a network connectivity issue. We're working with them to get the issue resolved.
Can anyone give any tips on lowering latency? I have an older K8N, 1.8GHz, 512MB, AGP Radeon 8500 LE 128MB, if I run glxgears I get a 7000 latency number, I can do just about anything else and it will stay the same, if I play a video with glxgears running the latency number shoots up to 240,000
Should I think about trying a different hardware configuration or is the machine OK?
if you're pretty sure that you won't be playing videos while machining, this machine will probably work fine
yeah, it will be dedicated
that sounds like a problem waiting to happen to me, but what do I know?
but you should make sure that other things won't screw it up - leave the latency test running overnight (or longer), with various programs running (firefox, openoffice, glxgears ...)
yeah, see what open office does to the latency
eric_unterhausen, yeah it does, because the first time you go to a flash site while machining, that video spike comes in and boom
well, I have an old dual socket-A machine with a couple 1.8MPs, think that may bring better luck?
no way to know
you tell us :)
you may be able to fix the latency problem, that sounds so severe as to be fixable
if it's really flash, there is a flash blocker
well, whichever - the point in that the actual cause of the problem is unknown, it just manifested itself playing a video
so you're right, it's a problem waiting to happen
I dont know, I will check, I think it was an ogg video, found it on the machine
are you using the open source driver?
I don't wanna be right when it feels so good to be wrong
I think so? I dont know a lot about linux, I am just using the default install
I have a matrox and a couple nvidia cards laying around, are they worth a shot?
if you installed from the EMC2 liveCD, and didn't manually install other packages (called something like linux-restricted-modules), then you're probably using the best one for realtime
yes, fresh install from the liveCD
matrox have been mostly good, I think only one person has said that a Matrox card didn't fix their video-related latency proble
think mine is a g650 or something like that
been a while since I have seen it
P650, that is it
I don't know if there's a driver included with Linux for that
there is a driver you can get from the Matrox website (somewhere)
ok, I can find it
hehe, yes, I hope anyway
I think they may actually have it under Linux drivers now, but I'm not sure
can I change the card to the matrox and boot GUI without the machine crashing?
if you do a web search for Matrox parhelia linux driver. you should find out how to get the code, patch whatever, compile, etc. etc.
should be able to - it should use VESA if it doesn't know any better
what are the irseekbot people thinking?
wouldn't you get a clue after a few dozen k-lines?
what is that?
i assumed a k-line was being kicked
21:35:36 -!- IRSeekBot3 [n=IRSeekLo@irseek/log-bot/IRSeekBot] has quit [K-lined]
have you heard of irseekbot3 before, or just noticed it here over and over again?
well, k-line is a "kill line", it forbids that ip address (?) from connecting at all, let alone joining a channel
oh I've seen it go by a few times today, but it was more than a year ago that they first came to the attention of the freenode admins
[03:47:21] <jepler> http://blog.freenode.net/?p=62
thread on ubuntu forums about it too
your link says they use tor mostly
that was a year ago though
so the tor block must still be in effect
thanks for the tips eric_unterhausen and SWPadnos, max jitter at 23000 now
does that sound acceptable?
i think some guidelines were in email list this morning, that 60K was bad, 30k was acceptable, so you're in th the good enuf range afik, you may have a limnit to max step rate that slows you down firther thasn you like or it may be fine. but your'e good to go at 23k
sorry make tht last nite for usa
no worries, thanks for the tip
Do you know a value to shoot for?
scan thee irclogs for acomment from jmk
the value depends on a few thingd, since you ask, its time to study :)
ok, I have a lot to learn :)
If I install using the live CD onto a dual CPU machine will it take advantage of the second CPU?
as far as i know, the dual not a benefit for rtai/latency, and a 'fix' is to give the 2nd cpu a 'do nothing' task, then its okydoky... you best ask around
having a dual cpu doesnt kill you
I may give it a try, I would really like to get to the setup phase, I think it will take a while to get my controllers working... with so much to do I guess it wouldnt hurt to try the dual machine out
23000 is ok
disabled onboard audio and pulled the wireless NIC and now max jitter is 9k, I am set, thanks for the help
who was working on 3D laser scanner? any open source projects?
ah cute one on instructables, but relies on rotating the object
JustinXJS2: the CD and the precompiled versions of emc for i386 systems will only use one CPU. You have to "recompile" kernel, rtai, and emc2 to enable SMP (multi-CPU/multi-core support), and that's not a fun way to spend your first weeks with emc2.
Guest938 is now known as skunkworks_
some nice edge detection using still digital phots ( precursor to 3d scanning ) ... old siggraph paper http://groups.csail.mit.edu/graphics/pubs/siggraph2004_nprcamera.pdf
tomp see 'graphics gems' series of books code is online
ooh thx, i have that url somewhere.. btw great src for line interserction/linecircleline/intersection of 2 circles....
Im missing one book of the set
i bought hardcovers back in the 80s, was 50+ USD$ back then, i didnt buy the whole series. I picked up what was to become #1, then #2 came out & I decided to visit college libraries ( i'm cheap )
I missed out on 4
then the bar stewards decided on a journal I coudnt afford
ooh, exactly what i was lloking for http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=a1YqJmuSCg0
uni birmingham, architectutral preservation
yeah books are really expensive
30 miles down the road from here brum uni
hmm, the word Leica Scanner makes me think expensive
beautiful work tho
make a scanner based on EMC as the controller
sort of like this only for optical http://emcar.sourceforge.net/
more axis and moooore maffs
the emc antenna array system?
yes rotate laser heads instead
gotcha, but hard to do with an ancient temple like vihar priah ( it comes with a mountain on its bottom ;)
piffle, carry toys up mountain
other method is fly a chopper around taking pics
hehe outside my budget :) we used a rubber mold to save some carvings great stuff add water , slop over carving, wait, peel off mold
[13:57:55] <tomp> http://www.orientalarchitecture.com/cambodia/statewide/preah-vihear_gallery.php?p=preah-vihear01.jpg
with a cheapo laser/ulrasonic ranger, and a few hundred pics and some software
How do I know the difference between the 5i23 firmwares. There is SV12.BIT, SVST4_8.BIT and SVST8_4.BIT?
doh, that makes a lot more sense when I read it back, sv=servo st=stepper
archivist, yeh, now looking at laser level's ( line projector ) and multiple pix... DAVID freeware
[14:12:45] <tomp> http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
1st i watched Leo LaPorte do a show on it
The_Ball: I think there may be "PIN" files for each BIT file. If there are, the PIN files describe the capabilities of each firmware in more detail. 'dpkg -L emc2 | grep PIN' should tell you where they're installed.
still gotta study, i need to eliminate the 2 boards behind it
anyone here use that david scanner thing? wonder how well the results are
but I think you've guessed the essential: SV12 is for (up to) 12 servos, SVST4_8 is for 4 servos and 8 steppers, and so on
urf! windows only no source (DAVID)
thats the bad part, if it had source and the scanner was driven by emc
ok, the installer didn't like wine
The_Ball: looks like they're installed as ./usr/share/doc/emc2/hostmot2/5i23/SVST4_8.PIN.gz and so on. You can use "zless" in a terminal to view them.
(oops, kill leading ".")
"The scanner is written in python, with a Tk gui." http://www.splinescan.co.uk/faq.php
ah, new machine, new ubuntu install and new emc with new configs, it's very nice to see a led on the 7i33 board light up when i enable the machine
jepler, I symlinked from the emc2-head checkout to /lib/firmware/hm2
tomp: you use that splinescan thing? or you just find it?
jepler, doh now I see what you mean, obviously time for bed or more caffine, i'll opt for the first one
killar, just read about it
i'm thinkin that a regular flatbed scanner could do bas-relief to 3D for milliing-replicating. the light source could be shifted for 3 scans (preceding, on, and trailing) to get the heights. then large areas could be pieced like bricks. but limited depth :(
put a grid on the scanner surface
I guess that wouldn't work with a line camera
how does Seoul Semi get 120v LEDs?
eric_unterhausen: I have seen LED-based light fixtures for 120VAC that incorporate a large number of LEDs. I assumed that in series connection their combined forward voltage was around 120*sqrt(2)V but I don't know that for certain
that works, but this is one emitter on a star
eric_unterhausen: interesting -- link?
must have a really small power conversion circuit
for AC or DC current?
ac I think
just a sec
I once saw an interesting linear DC-from-mains-AC regulator that has since been discontinued
there are lots of really cheap ones
the datasheet described how a main transistor only conducts during a small part of the AC waveform (up to 14V or something) producing an unregulated DC supply that was then regulated down to 5V by a standard linear regulator
[15:07:11] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.zled.com/en/product/prd/acriche.asp
mouser has them
hmph, you still burn 1W in a ballast resistor for the 4W lamps
when running latency-test it says not to run emc2, does that mean not turning the mill(power to the controller card) also ?
it means "don't start the emc software"
what hosting service does linuxcnc.org use?
why, is it broken again?
it doesn't appear broken here
sort of broken
remember to use my referral code if you want to sign up - it helps me pay for the service
seems like the problem is on my end
where's the code?
well, I guess I should find it, shouldn't I? :)
SWPadnos: Mmmmmm fiber!
SWPadnos: 18Mbps of sheer goodness!
well, one day California will slide into the ocean, and I'll have faster internet access than you :P
SWPadnos: This may be true, but until that time... Neener neener neeeeeeeeener
SWPadnos: But I do have a quetion for ya regarding routers, or more specificaly 250+ concurrent sessions, any suggestions or things to be aware of?
SWPadnos: From what I've gathered so far I need to make sure the buffer is somewhat decent
unless your router is also doing other things (like firewalling or whatever), the number of connections should be irrelevant
SWPadnos: Well, one router I was trying didn't like anything above 200 sessions
what size out going pipe and any blocked ports
are you talking about something that does NAT?
archivist: at the time, 3Mbps/768Kbps, a hole was poked for passthru
ok, that's a different story then
I thought you were talking about a simple router/switch
oh you mean something in this genre? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124010
nost routers I've seen only deal with a single class C subnet, so you'll be limited to 253 clients - they may not plan for loads of differnet connections due to that inherent limitation
I'm sure they cut every corner they can
use dd-wrt, and solder some extra memory in there :)
SWPadnos: I picked up a 8port gig (unmanaged) switch, just due to having bigger buffers.
jepler: I have a WRT54GL already, but not sure if that's the way to go or not. But haven't fully tested it eihter.
SWPadnos: I did install OpenWRT on it, but that was White Russian, not Kamakazi
ok. I'm getting more coffee now
(I have no idea what you just said :) )
SWPadnos: dd-wrt is an offspring from OpenWrt. WhiteRussian is the previous version, Kamakazi is the current and still under development version.
if you're running linux, you can tune the number of statefull connections that are tracked. It's described here: http://support.imagestream.com/Resolving_ip_conntrack_table_full_Errors.html
though the /proc/sys filename is different in my linux2.6 desktop
you can also control the size of ARP tables, see 'sysctls' section of arp(7) http://linux.die.net/man/7/arp
jepler: I *think* I can track that via iptables, but the thing is I'm not sure if the issue (at the time) was related to the FW/OS or more specifically HW (switch chipset).
or other dumb switch/nic
Well, can't be the nic, as worked fine when connected to other network
wow. good hosting deal today, $4.44/month with a 4-year contract, unlimited bandwidth/storage
and works fine when connected currently to dumb gigabit switch
[17:16:18] <SWPadnos> http://www.dreamhost.com/hosting.html
actually, unlimited + 50GB! :)
if the ethernet ports of the wrt54gl appear as a single NIC to openwrt, then the ARP limitation would depend on the hardware. if not, it would depend on linux. I don't have a wrt54gl so I don't know the answer to this
the number of stateful connections would depend on the os doing the firewall+nat
$214 for 48 months
(me saying all this and I know nothing about networks :-P)
yes, it's a good deal, isn't it
jepler: Actually all five ports on the WRT54GL under OpenWRT are VLANS
so they must show up as separate NICs
jepler: It's just that 4 of them are LAN VLAN
plus the WIFI is bridge into the LAN VLAN, plus one other iface being the CPU
SWPadnos: Yeah, I haven't tested heavily under OpenWRT yet, need to buy another one.
[17:23:17] <jepler> http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/NetworkInterfaces
I bought a WRT610N (dual radios, abgn, gigbit switch, usb storage [mini-nas]), but it doens't support jumbo frames, and OpenWRt support is still WIP =(
who was the Belgian telecom guy that offered to email me an ethernet cable?
from the diagrams on that page, it looks like it's something outside of linux that is in charge of getting a packet from one port of et0 to another
eric_unterhausen: email.. cable?
hey, Belgians have some great tech
jepler: Just FYI... #openwrt if ever needed, BartMan007 is the one of the developers
so it might have some limitation on number of MAC addresses or the like that you can't fix in linux
jepler: Yeah, just trying to find some nice HW without spenidng $2000+ for a router
They do have OpenWRt running under a Cisco 3600 though =)
I should probably stop by penn state surplus more often, they junk out some pretty good equipment
haha, "Xandros didn't so much tame the beast [i.e., Debian] as lobotomize it and give it a Mickey Mouse hat to conceal the bandages"
someone was on here whining about ubuntu stealing from debian
perhaps he doesn't understand what "free software" is
or that ubuntu is BASED upon debian, among others
no, debian was an injured party
I guess BSD is too
apparently Ubuntu doesn't give anything back to debian
luckily, there's no requirement to
OMG Linux was stolen by debian!!!! OMG OMG OMG lol
also, they don't write Ubuntu GNU/Linux, they just write "Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu Linux".
it might be somewhat presumptuous "your distribution stinks, take this part of ours"
also, luckily the principles of free software mean that debian could incorporate ubuntu improvements without permission from ubuntu
that was my position in the discussion
last time I installed debian, I gave up because I didn't want to do that much work
You know, I like debian, and somewhat ubuntu. But there are a couple of things that makes me consider shopping around (CentOS is current canidate).
too much annoyance for me
and punching the monitor when frustrated is no longer a good idea
centos would certainly be on my short list
but I think that when I get fed up with ubuntu I'll go to debian
ubuntu has WAY TOO MANY intentional dependancies, debian gets a bit dated, plus I've been seeing that the pkg'ing of certain things from debian is not all it's cracked up to be.
I would say that long term support is a requirement, but I just installed the 8.10 on this computer and it's not the LTS version
jepler: I have debian on my server in the DC, but I tell you that most of the customers in there and even here at work are running CentOS, just due to it's stability.
Centos is the RH clone?
tempting if the support is good enough
eric_unterhausen: We have 15 VM's running on it =)
I guess if I had a server it would be an obvious choice
jymm: your buddies at deal extreme were off line for a long time today
what jepler said
there was one day you kept posting links to a usb to ide converter from them
sure, I bought one tests great even under nix, passing on the info
it can be a nice website for certain import electronics
particularly if you envy most glorious engrish instructional manual
it's a place that's cheap enough if it doens't work, you don't care especially with free shipping
I need one of those, which was it?
though they will replace things for you too
it's the place to go for leds, strange thing is the best ones are U.S. made
eric_unterhausen: this one comes with a nice engrish manual: http://www2.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8422
I can't recommend the item itself, the battery life is too short and it takes too long to charge again
jepler: Heh, actually an 802.11 one might be cool...
just setup some strem on the network and you have music 24/7
the kids each got an ipod touch, the 802.11 is pretty neat
deal extreme sells several varieties of "clicky switch"
um wtf? http://www.dreamhost.com/domains.html
dreamhost is run by a kid?
then who's craig y. ?
they have photos of kids for their ads and stuff. I think you can read about that history somewhere
their tone in general is somewhat more irreverent than most businesses
haha, rofl. cool.
assuming that irreverence correlated with eliteness
'they treat me like an adult'
good evening.i want search the home axis (exmple x axis) whit logic the classicladder.Example classicladder.0.in-00 and (another condition) and %IB0.But %IB0 not is present in pin interface.The pin interface the classicladder are only digital imput, digitital output and s32in and s32out.I don't see the variable bit or byte(example merker on siemens), for after connection in hal for example axis.0.home.please help me
motioncontrol: classicladder.0.in-00 => %I0
[19:14:30] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/ladder_classic_ladder.html#r1_7_1
cradek but %I0 is on my m5i20 bit 0 digital input or is one memory
motioncontrol: HAL inputs to classicladder are %I0, internal classicladder memory bits are %B0
ok the internal memory %iB0 not is present in hal?
does %IB0 even mean anything in classicladder?
when I try to use it in a coil, it says "Error: Unknown variable"
motioncontrol: %B0 is internal memory, not present in HAL
this is the problem
what is the problem?
example home axis x for exsternal condition
one moment i write
if i want read one digital imput and in and contition in logic for my system i have one timer and when the timer is finish i want start the home on x axis?
eample push x home, wait timer, start ref axes x
x home digital imput, timer in classicladder
you can use the hal debounce component, or write some classicladder for that
you will need to connect the output to halui.joint.0.home
I don't know about how to get classicladder to act like a debounce - you'll have to look at the documentation to find that out
if i want start the x home axis for exsternal digital imput, what is the line in hal file?
is the name of the pin which causes the X axis to perform the homing sequence
gpio.p3.in_15 => axis.0.home ? is correct?
you are missing some words
because "axis.0.home" is not the name of a HAL pin
read documentation and use "halcmd show" to determine the correct names of pins
gpio.p3.in_15 => halui.joint.0.home ?
halui may not be enabled in your specific configuration. read the documentation to see how to enable it: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_halui.html
* fasting slaps motioncontrol around a bit with a large trout
excuse jepler i don't read , have one problem with mirc, i'm motioncontrol
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-01-22.txt
fasting: you can read the logs of what you missed. I said at most a single thing.
cradek: which is correct: "there are a gaggle of geese on the pond" or "there is a gaggle of geese on the pond"?
gaggle is singular, though it represents multiple geese
it's like "there is a group of humans nearby"
or "a bunch of people is outside with torches and pitchforks"
"a bunch of people are outside"
"people" is a very special case
it may be acceptable to use either in "there is/are a bunch of people outside"
don't try to use your ear for "people" in other cases
there is got to be a bunch of exceptions to that rule
(oops, there "is" isn't trying to agree with "bunch")
there has not got to don't the great Ronald Reagan
a bunch of exceptions to that rule are going to turn up
"how many peoples are in the country?" "there is only one people."
it is english after all
I ask all this because of the geese on the pond.
and also some ducks
there could be multiple gaggles there though
you wouldn't know unless you ask them if they're all together
"there is a bunch of gaggles"
Would it be reasonable to configure a control panel Pause and Continue as a toggle function and can it be readily implmented?
if you use a toggle switch with center off and momentary up/momentary down, it would work great
you would only need to hook those two momentaries to the halui inputs for pause and resume
Yep a momentary toggle would do it, but i was thinking of a momentary push button
it would also interact fine with the gui. you could pause at the gui and resume with the switch for instance.
oh, you mean one button for both? I thought you meant "toggle switch"
yes you could, but it would take some HAL or ladder logic
I was inking that one could use a flip flop function
you have to spell "when running, hook the input to halui.pause" and "when paused, hook the input to halui.resume" in ladder
yeah, something like that
I think the toggle would be nicer, personally
I don't like buttons that do more than one thing based on some state that I may or may not immediately see
though "running" is usually a fairly obvious state
with machine motion and all
SWPadnos: not at all. max vel = 0, feed override = 0%, feed hold, adaptive feed = 0%, ......
it's possible that it won't be visible
but I'll agree with "usually" I guess :-)
grudgingly of course
btw, jogwheel hooked to halui.maxvel is the best thing since a freight train
I sure like the features I write (haha)
crap.. I need a new laptop battery
18 minutes left - 56%
any idea why my EMC starts (loads on) and soft limit at -5.909, -8.292?
it means it always goes past the soft limit
manually, at least
you may have a g54 offset, you may have a g92 offset, you may have the machine position being reloaded from a file if your configuration is set up that way
Issuing EMC_TRAJ_SET_MAX_VELOCITY -- (+207,+20, +9,1.200000,)
have a look at this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
particularly "so you're lost, what should you do"
btw, i have for cost of postage, an 8" touch screen add on if anyone wants it
* shrdlu- looks
free touch screen?
touch screen add-on
you need an 8" screen to go with it
(which I have)
i.e. u put it over a screen
cradek do u want this?
but I don't want to take it if I'm not sure I will use it
thats what I said originally
and its sat here for a year
i've just treated my cnc to a new PC for EMC. gone from a p3-700 to a P4 2.4GHz - there is however a nvidia in the P4 and i've seen the warnings about these. Am I best ditching it and getting a matrox or something
i've had the latency test running today and its peaked at 11080
pjm_: you could try the vesa video driver. it might be fine.
11080 is perfectly fine. did you test latency while running glx?
Hmmm, I wonder how emc would do on a mac?
well i ran a few of the '3d' screensavers just to see
and it made no difference to the latency figure
sounds fine then
the only snag is that this new box has no ISA slot for my dual port parallel card, so I'm back to a single parport for the steppers until ebay comes to the rescue
jymm: if you mean the kind of mac that's just an expensive white PC, it would do OK if you could figure out how to install ubuntu on it and put an emc-supported hardware interface in
* alex_joni hides
jymm: if you mean "a macbook air running os x to talk to a device that doesn't even exist yet over 802.11n wireless" the answer is that the real developers have better things to do
In the hal component "and2" athe syntax is given as and2[Count=N]... What is N?
how does one determine what it should be?
depends how many and2 components you need
if you need only one then you don't need count=N
if you need 8 x and2 -> count = 8
I want to and 3 signals
then you need 2 and2
(signal1 and2 signal2) and2 signal3
or use an bigger and, and set the unused pins to 1
hmm.. no bigger and
but you can use logic
'logic' and 'lut5' both provide ways to directly AND 3 pins into a single output.
man 9 logic
all I want to do is to create a a signal "all homed" to lite an indicator
good night all
loadrt logic personality=259
never heard of that
this gives a 3-input AND -- logic.0.in-00, -01, -02 as inputs and logic.0.and as output
remember to addf logic.0
to which thread?
to the appropriate one
probably servo-thread, if the purpose is to turn on an indicator for the user to look at
if you're wondering what personality=259 means, you can read in the logic manpage an explanation that only a programmer could love. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/logic.9.html
3 + 256 = 259. 3 = # of inputs, 256 = function "and"
woo, that worked, thanks cradek