#emc | Logs for 2008-12-31

[03:23:39] <jepler> man, looking at backup software documentation I get a sense for how people looking at emc2 for the first time feel.
[03:23:49] <jepler> "why won't you just tell me WHAT TO TYPE so I can back up my files / run my cnc machine"
[03:23:57] <jepler> "I don't want to read 100 pages of this dreck"
[03:24:10] <jepler> "why aren't any of your default configuration files right for my system? my system isn't at all odd!"
[03:24:18] <jepler> "what are these crazy terms you keep mentioning"
[03:24:45] <JymmmEMC> jepler: lol, what are you reading?
[03:24:53] <jepler> "my tape drive is about 10 inches across, 5 inches tall, and a foot deep"
[03:25:04] <jepler> JymmmEMC: documentation for "bacula"
[03:25:21] <JymmmEMC> jepler: The tape drive is a DLT =)
[03:25:39] <JymmmEMC> Now, 5" wide... Colorado =)
[03:25:48] <jepler> I'm pretty sure at this point that I'll just use dump and a shell script :-/
[03:26:19] <JymmmEMC> jepler: I wasn't too fond of it when I looked, take a peek at rdiff-backup. It's rsync + version control
[03:26:35] <dgar1> i just setup rsnapshot -- not bad
[03:27:33] <JymmmEMC> jepler: http://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/non-gnu/rdiff-backup/
[03:28:19] <jepler> my requirements are roughly: 1. honors ext2 nodump flag, including at highest level 2. has incremental backups 3. spans multiple tapes with one backup
[03:28:39] <jepler> #1 excludes amanda and bacula, #2 excludes most of these rsync-type systems, and #3 excludes amanda again
[03:28:48] <JymmmEMC> tapes? they went out in the 90's.... 1890's that is
[03:29:14] <jepler> whatever you say, JymmmEMC
[03:29:46] <cradek> jepler: you are wrong that #1 excludes amanda
[03:30:10] <cradek> however I think you are right that #3 excludes amanda
[03:30:12] <jepler> cradek: that's true, it only requires a recompile
[03:30:36] <cradek> I don't think it even requires that - let me see if I can find the magic
[03:30:40] <jepler> I found a shitty hack for amanda that treated the tape drive as a human-powered tape library, but it didn't quite work..
[03:30:51] <jepler> this was 3 years ago, maybe I should look again
[03:30:55] <cradek> um, my backup host is off and unplugged...
[03:31:05] <SWPadnos> strange that nobody noticed ...
[03:31:49] <jepler> "amanda-2.4.5-span_split_V7.2_2.4.5.gz: This patch by John Stange adds the ability to span DLEs over more than one tape. "
[03:32:00] <jepler> I wonder if this is something different than what I tried
[03:32:10] <cradek> what's a DLE?
[03:33:23] <SWPadnos> Damned Long E-archives
[03:33:46] <jepler> cradek: no idea
[03:34:12] <eric_u> do you need any dc300 tapes?
[03:34:55] <eric_u> that makes every backup damned long
[03:36:25] <cradek> jepler: you're right, it is a rebuild (configure option I think)
[03:36:30] <jepler> this sounds like what I recall -- it splits a dump into files of a given size, and then those files can go on multiple tapes
[03:36:38] <jepler> you still have to pretend you have a tape changer as well
[03:36:50] <SWPadnos> and you need a lot of free space on your hard drives
[03:37:12] <cradek> that makes sense. there was a similar workaround for old ext2 file size limit, I bet that was reused
[03:38:27] <eric_u> I just realized I have a fairly easy path to get ethernet from the basement to the second floor, does not require recompile
[03:47:10] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh, hey... getting fiber installed mid jan
[03:47:19] <SWPadnos> prick
[03:47:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: lol
[03:47:40] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: 18Mbps/1.5Mbps
[03:47:44] <SWPadnos> I saw that earlier - going from faxst to even faster
[03:47:49] <SWPadnos> -x
[03:48:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, the 6Mbps/768Kbos didn't work out... too far from CO. HAd to downgrade
[03:48:32] <SWPadnos> bummer
[03:49:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: AT&T put in fiber, BUT... they force you to get TV to get it (bastards), so getting it for a month, then just keeping the iNet
[03:50:42] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'm still leary of VoIP, not sure if I should keep that or not.
[03:51:49] <SWPadnos> if you have a good battery backup, it could be OK
[03:52:24] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: It comes with a battery, they say it's good for 2 to 4 hours. But they can't tell me if I can add an additional battery or not.
[03:52:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I have two cases of 12VDC@7.5Ah batteries here
[03:52:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:54:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I still have to see if they are still good. I read yesterday storing gel-cells for a long time degrades the battery if never kept charged.
[03:54:29] <cradek> SWPadnos: did I see that you got your lathe inside?
[03:54:35] <SWPadnos> not quite
[03:54:42] <SWPadnos> you saw that I was going to do it today
[03:54:45] <cradek> down to ground level?
[03:54:53] <SWPadnos> but then it got cold, dark, and windy
[03:54:58] <SWPadnos> nope, still on the trailer
[03:55:02] <cradek> darn.
[03:55:15] <SWPadnos> we had guests for the last few days, and they stayed for brunch
[03:55:22] <SWPadnos> when sunset is at 4:00, that's not good for unloading :)
[03:55:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: shoulda put em to work =)
[03:55:31] <SWPadnos> yeah
[03:55:36] <cradek> spring will be here soon...
[03:55:55] <SWPadnos> yep. we had one already. maybe another is coming in the next couple of weeks
[03:56:06] <cradek> that would be nice.
[03:56:08] <SWPadnos> at least I now have time to move things around in the garage a little better
[03:56:14] <cradek> I enjoyed this one. I got LOTS of outside work done.
[03:56:40] <SWPadnos> of course, all the new years fun will be on one of the coldest days so far - something like a few dgrees above to a few below, plus wind chill
[05:04:18] <eric_u> fedora has its weaknesses, but the Ubuntu installer is pathetic in comparison to the fedora installer
[05:04:36] <eric_u> it's open source, they should just use the fedora installer
[05:05:53] <JymmmEMC> CentOS
[05:06:05] <eric_u> never heard of it
[05:06:39] <JymmmEMC> Really?!
[05:06:54] <JymmmEMC> CentOS is renamed RH
[05:07:51] <JymmmEMC> Many many ppl use CentOS of their server's in the DC. http://www.centos.org/
[05:08:11] <eric_u> how about desktop?
[05:08:17] <JymmmEMC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentOS
[05:11:18] <jtr> EMC used to use the red hat distro - then red hat decided that if anyone who wanted to redistribute it had to remove all red hat branding.
[05:12:21] <eric_u> I think ubuntu is a good idea, I just can't believe that a commercial company would have a worse installer than the one that comes with fedora
[05:14:35] <eric_u> a person that wasn't familiar with linux windows would have given up, because they chose 640x480 resolution, and their installer puts up dialog boxes that can't be resized to that small
[05:14:50] <eric_u> so you can't see the "next" buttons
[05:18:42] <jtr> Until a couple of days ago, my distro experience was limited to whatever emc was using. It is kinda ugly that the installer doesn't take screen size into account.
[05:19:12] <jtr> past my bedtime here. good night.
[05:19:52] <eric_u> it's really pathetically bad programming, I could almost forgive them for not using the vesa driver at some reasonable resolution if they just checked the resolution they were running at
[05:21:44] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: What, it installed at 800x600?
[05:21:55] <eric_u> 640x480
[05:22:12] <JymmmEMC> So, CTRL+ALT+NUM_PLUS
[05:22:19] <eric_u> if it had chosen to run at 800x600, it probably would work
[05:22:33] <eric_u> what does that do?
[05:22:47] <JymmmEMC> So you choosed 640x480 and are complaining?
[05:23:00] <eric_u> no, I have no choice as far as I can tell?
[05:23:28] <JymmmEMC> Sure you do, unless you opted not to set it yourself.
[05:23:43] <eric_u> wasn't very obvious
[05:25:29] <eric_u> if I boot into the live cd, I can't change the resolution either, 640x480 is the only choice
[05:26:01] <JymmmEMC> So, CTRL+ALT+NUM_PLUS
[05:28:46] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=454217
[05:29:03] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution
[05:33:08] <eric_u> I have 850 gigabytes of free space, and the installer wants to put the ubuntu installation in the 100 GB windows partition
[05:34:05] <JymmmEMC> then use guided
[05:34:18] <eric_u> guided wants to delete the windows installation
[05:34:26] <JymmmEMC> tell it no
[05:34:43] <eric_u> no means manual install
[05:35:13] <JymmmEMC> I'm not sitting at an install window and don't have them memorized. There is the option to use both, just
[05:38:02] <eric_u> do I just need one partition for the install, or do I need a boot install as well?
[05:38:10] <eric_u> partition
[05:38:25] <JymmmEMC> you need at least a / and a swap partition
[05:39:04] <eric_u> thx
[05:39:09] <JymmmEMC> you can create a /boot partition if you like. doens't have to be very big, maybe 30MB
[05:39:13] <JymmmEMC> iirc
[05:39:24] <JymmmEMC> kiss... / and swap
[05:52:49] <eric_u> that seems to have worked
[06:59:53] <eric_u> I always wondered why the reprap guys didn't use emc
[07:00:03] <maddash> why?
[07:00:15] <eric_u> just seemed like they had to recreate it
[10:16:10] <christel> [Global Notice] As Chatham Island, NZ enters 2009 I'd like to wish each and every one of our users a very happy New Year! As normal #freenode-newyears is open and you're welcome to join us there! We may send the occasional wallop over the next day, however, this will be the only global notice. If you wish to see further messages from staff please set yourself +w.
[10:40:47] <Memocjro> Hello
[10:42:21] <Memocjro> Anyone might have any ideea what this message might mean? "Loop detected in dependency graph" ?
[10:43:05] <Memocjro> Downloaded the emc2 sources from CVS and tried to open the project in Anjuta IDE
[10:44:10] <Memocjro> and it says that "Failed to parse project (the project has opened, but there will be no project view) /home/memo/develop/emc2/src: Loop detected in dependency graph"
[11:43:23] <jtr> Memocjro: as a guess, it sounds like there is a case of "a" depends on "b", "b" depends on "c", but "c" depends on "a".
[12:54:24] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/31/amd_open_source_3d_code/ whee
[13:36:32] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/goal3screenshot.png
[13:36:39] <skunkworks_> over night
[13:37:21] <fragalot> nice
[13:37:44] <fragalot> 435GB disk space, bit of overkill for a cnc machine isn't it?
[13:37:46] <fragalot> :p
[13:38:28] <fragalot> As one poster on Slashdot waxed enthusiastically, such power would be "useful for cracking WEP/WPA keys."
[13:38:31] <fragalot> lol
[13:42:17] <skunkworks_> heh - I didn't even notice that.. I just grabbed whatever sata drive I had laying around here..
[13:45:10] <skunkworks_> jepler: thought you might relate.. ;) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=545547#post545547
[13:46:14] <JanVanGilsen> Hi, I'm tweaking the meter widget a bit by adding colored regions: http://imagebin.org/34673
[13:47:12] <micges> JanVanGilsen: cool
[13:47:45] <JanVanGilsen> But I need some help in fiuring out how to read the "region"-child in this piece of xml: http://pastebin.com/m78decad6
[13:48:13] <JanVanGilsen> atm i't hard-coded =)
[14:08:19] <jepler> JanVanGilsen: I think the current setup only allows for a single level of tags
[14:09:00] <jepler> JanVanGilsen: if you use <region>(8,10,"red")</region> I think you'll get a python tuple .. not ideal for the user who is writing the xml file, but at least it'll let you move forward
[14:09:05] <Memocjro> * Memocjro pops out a bottle of red wine and cheers to all EMC2 users in the world
[14:17:07] <JanVanGilsen> jepler: would it be posible to define 2 regions with tuples?
[14:18:06] <JanVanGilsen> e.g. <region>(5,8,"green")</region><region>(8,10,"red")</region>
[14:18:56] <jepler> JanVanGilsen: I forget whether repeated tags are allowed or not ..
[14:19:33] <jepler> it may give only the last one, or something like that
[14:20:52] <jepler> Memocjr1: thanks, happy new year
[14:20:54] <Memocjr1> Memocjr1 is now known as Memocjro
[14:21:37] <JanVanGilsen> mmm, thats not what i'm looking for...
[14:39:06] <micges> happy new year to all
[15:20:36] <skunkworks_> heh - looks like the first generation 30gb zunes have just locked up.. http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/7mmjo/epic_fail_every_1st_generation_30_gigabyte_zune/
[15:23:21] <jepler> there's a .. y2009 bug?
[15:23:47] <skunkworks_> I guess..
[15:24:44] <jepler> well, on page 34 the "elite zuner" "support team" promises: "This will be resolved as soon as Microsoft heres of this."
[15:25:45] <skunkworks_> heh
[16:19:40] <eric_u> who knew there were so many puns
[16:22:13] <eric_u> I'm smellin' class action lawsuit
[16:27:50] <eric_u> turns out there is a solution, unfortunately involves screwdrivers, pickaxes and hammers
[16:30:34] <SWPadnos> don't forget the torches
[16:30:54] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: did you see the goal test?
[16:31:03] <eric_u> I like the guy who's laughing about having his zune stolen a month ago
[16:31:08] <SWPadnos> I didn't look at the screenshot, but I saw the number
[16:31:36] <skunkworks_> This was the flakey motherboard.. seems to be running with the pci-e video card just fine.. Go figure.
[16:31:43] <SWPadnos> the one I have set up is pretty similar
[16:31:45] <skunkworks_> Ran all night with no issue and nice low latency
[16:31:47] <SWPadnos> cool
[16:31:58] <skunkworks_> I added it to the wiki
[16:31:58] <SWPadnos> tey're on sale again at NewEgg
[16:32:04] <SWPadnos> they're
[16:32:05] <skunkworks_> really? link?
[16:32:09] <SWPadnos> uh
[16:32:21] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ could find it he supposes
[16:32:37] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135227
[16:32:53] <SWPadnos> and the sempron version: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135060
[16:33:20] <JymmmEMC> whats the main diff?
[16:33:26] <skunkworks_> hmm - no heatsink?
[16:33:35] <SWPadnos> the second one has no memory and a sempron CPU
[16:33:44] <SWPadnos> the first one has 512M memory and an Athlon 64
[16:33:49] <SWPadnos> for an extra $15
[16:33:54] <SWPadnos> (after rebate)
[16:34:56] <JymmmEMC> MAx ram 2gb =(
[16:35:08] <eric_u> DDR =(
[16:35:10] <SWPadnos> yeah, you don't want one as a high end workstation
[16:35:17] <skunkworks_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[16:35:28] <skunkworks_> bottom - I think that explains it..
[16:35:36] <jmkasunich> am I reading that right? mobo, cpu, and memory for $75?
[16:35:42] <skunkworks_> yes
[16:35:44] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:35:54] <SWPadnos> and they do very well with RTAI
[16:36:16] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/goal3screenshot.png\
[16:36:17] <jmkasunich> am I blind, I don't see how much memory
[16:36:21] <SWPadnos> 512M
[16:36:24] <jmkasunich> skunkworks saw the screenshop
[16:36:25] <jmkasunich> t
[16:36:33] <jmkasunich> enough for EMC
[16:37:15] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, on the specifications tab, under memory, it says max mem 2G (DDR 333 512M include)
[16:37:16] <skunkworks_> the onboard video also seems to work fine - but it is a poor implimentation at best. Higher res/color depths causes onscreen noise.
[16:37:21] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich thinks about getting out credit card - the shoptask computer gets the "realtime delay" message every once in a while
[16:37:24] <SWPadnos> massive noise
[16:37:58] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: duh, I stopped reading that line when I saw "max supported", thought it was just the mobo limit
[16:38:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:38:39] <skunkworks_> so - also buy a cheap pci-e video card ;)
[16:39:17] <jmkasunich> since the existing board is a P2 or P3, I don't think I'll have performance issues ;-)
[16:39:19] <SWPadnos> I haven't stuck a mesa card in mine yet, have you?
[16:39:28] <skunkworks_> no
[16:39:40] <SWPadnos> the onboard video has massive display corruption at high resolution, it's not about performance
[16:39:59] <SWPadnos> if you kick it down to 1024x768 or maybe 1280x1024, it gets bearable
[16:40:05] <jmkasunich> how high resolution? I have a 15" LCD, 1024 x 768
[16:40:16] <SWPadnos> that should be OK, but you'll still see issues
[16:40:26] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: do you still have the link explaining it?
[16:40:38] <jmkasunich> so the trick becomes, finding a cheap vid card/driver combo that doesn't mess up the latency
[16:40:47] <SWPadnos> it's a shared memory architecture, but it looks like they gave the CPU priority instead of the GPU (which gives you icky display but good latency)
[16:40:59] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, no, not at the moment
[16:42:05] <skunkworks_> ^ those numbers are using a Ati radeon HD 4650 off brand. (visiontek)
[16:42:46] <jmkasunich> oh, I thought you were using the onboad
[16:42:48] <SWPadnos> and ATI just released a bunch of code and docs for an open source driver
[16:42:50] <SWPadnos> (yay)
[16:43:06] <jmkasunich> yeah, I just saw that, and decided my next vid would be ATI
[16:43:21] <SWPadnos> using onboard makes things weird. if you stick a $20-50 card in, you get better performance and latency
[16:43:38] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: this was onboard.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/athlon64-3200ECSGoal3.png
[16:43:46] <skunkworks_> :)
[16:44:08] <SWPadnos> (note latency, not screen disturbances)
[16:44:21] <skunkworks_> yes - screenshots look fine..
[16:45:54] <jmkasunich> screenshots are made by the CPU reading the framebuffer
[16:46:01] <SWPadnos> right
[16:46:30] <jmkasunich> its a shame there is no AGP slot, I'd jsut reuse the matrox I have in there now
[16:46:34] <SWPadnos> I think the issue is something like the memory controller not knowing that the data is wrong, and handing it off to the CRTC anyway
[16:48:49] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich You don't have any MCA video cards, do you?
[16:49:44] <SWPadnos> har har
[16:50:08] <eric_u> isn't that orange slot an AGP
[16:50:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I had to ask, ya never know.
[16:50:16] <SWPadnos> no
[16:50:19] <SWPadnos> PCIe and PCI
[16:50:19] <eric_u> pcie
[16:50:45] <eric_u> that's a little better than the machine I'm using right now
[16:51:32] <eric_u> looks like you could get the desoldering iron out and put an agp slot in between the pci-e and the pci slot
[16:54:47] <JymmmEMC> I think this is it... http://www.ecsusa.com/ECSWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=575&CategoryID=1&DetailName=Feature&MenuID=48&LanID=9
[16:55:38] <eric_u> can't be, it has a pci slot where the agp slot isn't
[16:56:47] <biqut2> hello
[16:57:21] <eric_u> hi
[16:58:44] <biqut2> I have a quick question, i am building a cnc router and need to know if anyone has ever used the product at stepgenie.com and how does it perform with emc2
[16:59:18] <jmkasunich> that is a unipolar driver
[16:59:44] <archivist> most in here would recommend bipolar
[16:59:54] <jmkasunich> bipolar chopper to be precise
[17:00:15] <archivist> yup
[17:00:36] <biqut2> oh ok so if i go with the one at http://www.xylotex.com/ i should be ok then right?
[17:00:38] <archivist> more torque and speed
[17:00:41] <jmkasunich> unipolar will give low top speed (this is general stepper motor issues, has nothing to do with EMC)
[17:01:11] <jmkasunich> biqut2: you don't seem to have done much homework
[17:01:23] <SWPadnos> Xylotex or Geckodrive should give you much better performance, unless you already have unipolar motors
[17:01:29] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC would highly recommend AVOIDING xylotex
[17:01:34] <jmkasunich> you start with a machine, then you choose motors that are sized to fit the machine, then you choose drives that are sized to fit the motors
[17:01:56] <biqut2> i have on the software side but when it comes to the stepper motors im kinda clueless
[17:02:08] <jmkasunich> well, lets start at the beginning
[17:02:17] <jmkasunich> what kind and size of machine are you trying to control?
[17:02:56] <jmkasunich> a 30 lb engraving machine and a 2000 lb bridgeport mill can both be run by steppers ;-)
[17:03:50] <biqut2> it is a gantry cnc router, cutting area of 12x12x5 inches. I have already built the machine and designed it to use nema 23 motors and it will be useing a trim router as the spindle
[17:04:05] <jmkasunich> ok, so NEMA23 size
[17:04:21] <jmkasunich> given the small work envelope, you don't need blazing speed
[17:04:33] <JymmmEMC> Get one of these instead of Xylotex... http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469
[17:04:42] <jmkasunich> if the machine was 8 feet wide you'd grow old waiting for it if it only had say 30 ipm rapids
[17:05:07] <jmkasunich> biqut2: do you have motors already?
[17:05:20] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: what do you have against xylotex?
[17:06:03] <biqut2> no, all i need at this point is the motors and the controllers for them and i was leaning toward slower motors with more torque
[17:06:08] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich You mean other than that rants/raves over the last two years that it HAS to be the driver that is causing all the issues that I've been having?
[17:06:38] <jmkasunich> I don't even want to start on all the issues you've been having
[17:06:52] <jmkasunich> I don't blame the drives for that
[17:06:53] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Or that I had to RMA it because it blew out one axis due to thermal issues?
[17:07:11] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich or that it doesn't have mid-band compensation?
[17:07:26] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: ok, forget I asked
[17:07:29] <JymmmEMC> =)
[17:07:30] <jmkasunich> please
[17:08:07] <jmkasunich> biqut2: what screw pitch? do you have any pulleys between motors and screws, or is it 1 to 1?
[17:08:12] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Ok, last one... limit of 35V including BEMF.
[17:08:28] <jepler> My router has a working area of about 6x8x3, NEMA-17 motors (2A 4.4 ohm), xylotex driver board. I am happy with the xylotex board. http://media.unpythonic.net/axis-files/01188441458/img_7045-medium.jpg
[17:09:33] <JymmmEMC> jepler: your nema17, did you get them from xylotex by chance?
[17:09:33] <jmkasunich> jepler: what kind of rapid speed do you get?
[17:09:47] <jmkasunich> I bet the motors came with the machine?
[17:10:40] <jmkasunich> looks like we scared biqut2 away :-(
[17:10:53] <jepler> jmkasunich: 72ipm on the old 20TPI triangular screws direct drive, 90ipm with the new acme 16TPI screws
[17:11:31] <biqut2> no im still here
[17:11:39] <biqut2> just getting ready for work
[17:11:43] <jmkasunich> biqut2: what screw pitch? do you have any pulleys between motors and screws, or is it 1 to 1?
[17:11:56] <jmkasunich> if you don't have time to talk, come back later when you do
[17:12:01] <jepler> yes, the motors came with the machine. the seller said that the machine was capable of 70ipm rapids
[17:12:06] <biqut2> its 1 to 1 and 20 tpi
[17:12:23] <jmkasunich> but the short answer to your original short question is, you'll probably be dissapointed with the step genie
[17:13:17] <jmkasunich> I dunno what your budget is - the genie is cheap, but it doesn't include the power stage nor the motors
[17:13:29] <jmkasunich> both of those are more expensive than the control electronics
[17:13:31] <eric_u> really not that cheap
[17:13:52] <jmkasunich> in fact, EMC2 can do in software what that chip does, and give you four outputs that would go direct to the FETs
[17:14:16] <jmkasunich> you'd need two parallel ports to run 3 axes tho, since that config uses more pins per motor
[17:14:40] <biqut2> ok then ill go with xylotex because $310 for the entire kit is a great deal
[17:15:33] <biqut2> i do like that 4 axis gecko drive though but at $300 i can get a driv. and all three motors from .xylotex
[17:15:41] <jmkasunich> http://www.kelinginc.net/SMotorstock.html is a pretty good source for motors
[17:15:50] <jmkasunich> and gecko makes good drives
[17:16:12] <JymmmEMC> biqut2: Xylotex doens't have mid-band compensation
[17:16:17] <jmkasunich> if you want to look at getting the pieces separately
[17:17:01] <jmkasunich> biqut2: keling has 425 oz-in NEMA23 motors for $49 each, so three would be $150
[17:17:38] <jepler> .. comapred to 169oz-in in the xylotex kit
[17:17:40] <JymmmEMC> biqut2: *IF* you do get the Xlyotex driver, be sure to have LOTS of cooling.
[17:17:59] <JymmmEMC> s/169/269/
[17:18:14] <jepler> JymmmEMC: oops, yes
[17:18:20] <jepler> still, a significant difference
[17:18:38] <biqut2> well i will look at getting the geck drive and those 425 oz motors because that is exactly the power i am looking for and tho whole thing would end up costing just over $450 and I can live with that
[17:18:51] <jmkasunich> gecko G254 http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14472
[17:19:00] <JymmmEMC> I'd go with the 425 oz in motors if you must, because they rated specs don't seem to exactly match it's performance.
[17:19:01] <jmkasunich> oops, I can't type
[17:19:03] <jmkasunich> G250
[17:19:24] <jmkasunich> at $61 each, that would be $183, + $150 for motors is $333
[17:19:41] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Plus all the wiring, connectors, etc
[17:19:52] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70712
[17:20:15] <jepler> I don't own any geckodrives, but one trade-off with them is that they don't have selectable microstepping. That means you have to generate more step pulses in the PC, and that can become a limiting factor for your rapid speeds
[17:20:34] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Since when?
[17:20:45] <SWPadnos> the G250/G251 are 10x only
[17:20:53] <JymmmEMC> Ah!
[17:20:56] <SWPadnos> the G210 and G212 have selections (1/2/5/10)
[17:20:57] <BigJohnT> as is the G203v
[17:21:01] <SWPadnos> as does the G340
[17:21:01] <jmkasunich> as are the standard G201/202/203
[17:21:04] <JymmmEMC> Well, most are using 8x anyway, no?
[17:21:07] <SWPadnos> right, the G203 also
[17:21:13] <BigJohnT> 10x
[17:21:13] <SWPadnos> no, they don't have 8x ;)
[17:21:16] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: no geckos use 8x
[17:21:21] <SWPadnos> gotta run. bbl
[17:21:33] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, I know. I mean ppl are not suing half or quarter
[17:21:38] <JymmmEMC> using
[17:22:02] <jmkasunich> xylotex (and others who have 8x) are typically using chips from allegro or such, and they provide what the chip provides, which is 8x, or 1x/2x/4x/8x
[17:22:03] <JymmmEMC> 10x not so bad
[17:22:12] <jepler> so if you can generate 30000 steps per second that'll get you 225 in/min rapids with 20TPI direct-drive halfstepping, but only 45 in/min rapids with 1/10 microstepping (I think)
[17:22:34] <jmkasunich> gecko uses their own design, they go 10x, and they have optional step multipliers that give you 1x, 2x, 5x
[17:22:57] <BigJohnT> I can drive my G203v's to the best rpm of the steppers with no problem since the paraport reset thingy is used
[17:23:15] <JymmmEMC> if he has a 12" x 12" table, dont think he's gonna need all that fast rapids
[17:23:45] <jmkasunich> it looks like the xylotex kit is offering a no-charge upgrade to 425 oz-in
[17:23:51] <jmkasunich> http://www.xylotex.com/3AxSysKit-425.htm
[17:24:13] <jmkasunich> that price is hard to beat if you don't have a well stocked junk box
[17:24:29] <jepler> "You will be able to get more low-speed torque using these motors compared to the 269 oz.in. motors. However, these motors have a higher inductance. This means a limited top-end speed."
[17:24:31] <jmkasunich> the gecko version would still need a power supply, and various bits and pieces (connectors, wire, etc)
[17:24:34] <jepler> so it's yet another trade-off
[17:24:39] <jmkasunich> yep
[17:24:46] <jepler> always with the trade-offs
[17:24:58] <BigJohnT> also the power supply is only 24 volts
[17:25:16] <JymmmEMC> But you can always reuse the gecko for any other project, or even make a box that you can use elsewhere, even for testing.
[17:25:27] <jmkasunich> biqut2: read http://www.xylotex.com/425ozin.htm
[17:25:58] <JymmmEMC> gecko also have opto isolation, and VFD, no breakout board needed
[17:26:07] <JymmmEMC> the gecko kit
[17:26:32] <JymmmEMC> always trade offs =)
[17:26:46] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: what gecko are you talking about? the 540?
[17:27:01] <JymmmEMC> the 4 in 1
[17:27:03] <jmkasunich> three 250's cost $183, the $540 costs $300
[17:27:34] <biqut2> well i want the flexibility so i am glad i talked to you guys, i am going to go with the G540 and buy the motors seperately
[17:27:46] <jmkasunich> paying $117 extra for a fancy breakout board seems a bit much
[17:27:49] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich SWPadnos and I were looking at breakout boards, we never did find one that was decent. I seriously doubt that Marriss would put crao in his
[17:28:31] <jmkasunich> biqut2: in spite of what I just said, I think you'll be happy with the G540 - I'm just a cheapskate
[17:28:31] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Not really, if you want to control spindel, dust/flood, etc it's already there
[17:28:35] <jmkasunich> Mariss makes good stuff
[17:28:51] <BigJohnT> and stands behind it 100%
[17:29:08] <jmkasunich> keling has lower torque (probably faster) motors too
[17:29:14] <BigJohnT> I had a drive go bad and they repaired it and shipped it back in a couple of days
[17:29:19] <jmkasunich> 270 oz-in are $39
[17:29:39] <jmkasunich> in fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the xilinx kit motors are from keling
[17:29:50] <jepler> oh, the G540 needs a separate DC power supply; it's not included like the xylotex kit
[17:29:51] <JymmmEMC> biqut2: JUST FYI... Marriss has an unwritten policy that if you blow up your drive, if you are honest and tell him that you screwed up, he will replace it at no charge one time only.
[17:30:18] <jmkasunich> if it was your fault, and you admit it
[17:30:34] <jmkasunich> if it was his fault (defective) he'll replace it more than once if needed
[17:30:34] <JymmmEMC> yep =)
[17:31:58] <biqut2> well i really like the fact that the 540 is opto isolated and the breakout board and everything is in one unit, plus i plan on running a slave on the x axis for now and upgrading to a 4 axis machine later
[17:32:15] <jmkasunich> oh - then that seems like a perfect choice
[17:32:26] <JymmmEMC> biqut2: It also has 50V limit instead of 35V
[17:32:31] <jmkasunich> you will need to buy/build the DC supply
[17:32:41] <jmkasunich> thats where the well stocked junkbox comes in ;-)
[17:33:24] <BigJohnT> the 540 is the same as 4 251's plus Optoisolated and comes with the connetors
[17:33:30] <biqut2> yeah i noticed that as well. i have everything i need to build my own PSU, actually i have a benchtop power supply as well
[17:33:40] <JymmmEMC> The hardest part in building a PS is finding a xfmr - logistics, my Nemesis
[17:33:45] <jmkasunich> then it sounds like you are good to go
[17:34:36] <biqut2> yeah, you helped out alot. answered all my question about the steppers (my weak point)
[17:34:40] <JymmmEMC> biqut2: I have the 3 axis xylotex plus their 260 oz in motors, Marriss told me those motors can do 50V fwiw,
[17:35:01] <JymmmEMC> err 269
[17:35:12] <BigJohnT> I like the Automation Direct steppers
[17:35:37] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: Have you seen the torque curve for them... AWESOME!
[17:35:41] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: link? how do they compare pricewise with keling?
[17:35:54] <BigJohnT> yes I have... one second on the link
[17:36:09] <BigJohnT> dial up you know...
[17:36:18] <JymmmEMC> <JAW DROP>
[17:36:37] <BigJohnT> JymmmEMC: I used them on my plasma table
[17:36:54] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: you have cell svc in your area?
[17:37:27] <BigJohnT> I have cell nothing in my area... I turn it off when I leave the pavement and head into the woods
[17:37:38] <BigJohnT> http://web3.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motion_Control/Stepper_Systems/Motors_-z-_Cables
[17:38:12] <BigJohnT> I used the 276 oz-in on my plasma table
[17:38:29] <jmkasunich> their 276 oz-in is competitive with keling's 269, but the 434 is 2x the price of the keling 425
[17:38:37] <jmkasunich> guess you gotta shop carefully
[17:39:03] <JymmmEMC> and NEMA34
[17:39:10] <jmkasunich> oh, duh
[17:39:12] <BigJohnT> yep and figure the whole package out before you buy
[17:39:17] <jmkasunich> I thought the whole table was nema 23
[17:39:51] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: My bad, I thought automation direct was the one in Watsonville.
[17:40:13] <BigJohnT> near Atlanta somewhere
[17:41:03] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: yeah, I found out. There is another company local and the motors I have has an almost perfect horzontal torque curve - strange but very cool
[17:42:09] <JymmmEMC> When I questioned Xylotex's 269 for a torque curve chart, I big flogged and beaten for asking for such a thing.
[17:42:18] <JymmmEMC> s/big/got/
[17:42:41] <JymmmEMC> ...and that such a thing doesn't exist.
[17:42:51] <BigJohnT> the amusing thing is the steppers are rated standing still and not doing any work
[17:43:04] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: which?
[17:43:18] <BigJohnT> all of them use holding torque
[17:43:22] <JymmmEMC> ah
[17:43:27] <BigJohnT> that means 0 rpm
[17:43:38] <BigJohnT> useless information
[17:43:53] <JymmmEMC> Is the irc log searchable?
[17:43:59] <jmkasunich> yes
[17:44:06] <jmkasunich> logger_emc: bookmark
[17:44:06] <jmkasunich> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-31.txt
[17:44:13] <JymmmEMC> ty
[17:44:20] <jmkasunich> that is today's log
[17:44:36] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich I want to search over the last 18 months
[17:44:39] <BigJohnT> there is a spreadsheet on the wiki site that has all the calculations needed to pick a power supply/motor combo
[17:44:40] <jmkasunich> if you want to search all of history, use google, and specify the first part of the URL along with your keywords
[17:44:49] <JymmmEMC> duh, thanks
[17:45:50] <jmkasunich> heh - build your awesome gaming right with a "sparkle" video card ;-)
[17:46:22] <jepler> jmkasunich: gaming "rig"?
[17:46:27] <jmkasunich> yeah
[17:46:38] <jmkasunich> I can't type
[17:47:00] <JymmmEMC> Ah... http://www.applied-motion.com/products/stepper/motors/size23.php
[17:49:40] <BigJohnT> seems like I read somewhere that the "round" steppers did not have the power or speed or something that the "square" ones do
[17:50:02] <jmkasunich> that is a bit of a generalization, but it is mostly true
[17:50:12] <jmkasunich> round ~= old, square ~= new ;-)
[17:50:39] <BigJohnT> ok I knew it was something but I slept since then :)
[17:51:06] <JymmmEMC> Where can I post a PDF file?
[17:51:59] <BigJohnT> well that almost worked :/
[17:52:20] <BigJohnT> filebin
[17:52:33] <BigJohnT> http://filebin.ca/
[17:52:56] <JymmmEMC> ty
[17:54:45] <JymmmEMC> P/N: 4023-828D, Page 129, http://filebin.ca/vkodvx
[17:55:35] <JymmmEMC> 3MB
[17:56:11] <jmkasunich> weird
[17:56:37] <JymmmEMC> I'm tellin ya.... almost flat across the board.
[17:56:38] <jmkasunich> 40 rev/sec = 2400 RPM, pretty fast
[17:58:11] <JymmmEMC> Oh btw, that PDF seems hard to come by, so if you want to keep a copy for your library you might consider it.
[17:59:02] <jmkasunich> hmm, the rebate on the goal3 combo expires today
[17:59:18] <jmkasunich> of course there will probably be a new one tomorrow
[17:59:47] <JymmmEMC> whats the return policy on it?
[18:00:10] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, a couple points about the G540: it has 4 drivers, it has optoisolation for the remaining few I/Os, it has a charge pump detect circuit, and it has an isolated analog output for spindle control
[18:00:49] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: well, the 4th driver is just a waste of money on a three axis machine (unless you anticipate a 4th axis, which I guess biqut2 does)
[18:00:52] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Limited 30 day return policy on both of them
[18:01:08] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: why would that matter?
[18:01:12] <eric_u> too bad marriss didn't hit his original price point on those drives
[18:01:34] <SWPadnos> it also comes with the connectors to attach the steppers, and it uses a single power supply, and the case is a heatsink sufficient for full power operation at 40C ambient
[18:01:42] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich in case it didn't work out for you or they toss up a better one tomorrow... http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#2
[18:01:50] <eric_u> maybe all the hobby vendors told him they would hire a hit man if he did
[18:01:55] <skunkworks_> couldn't you just pull the driver off the motherboard for the 4th axis.. (if you wanted the outputs?)
[18:01:56] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos or skunkworks the goal3 compo - does it come with a cpu sink? does it need one?
[18:02:06] <SWPadnos> it has a heatsink attached
[18:02:14] <eric_u> reviews say no
[18:02:17] <biqut2> and with a 4th axis you hove the option of running a slave on one axis rather than ussing a belt system
[18:02:19] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: when I bought mine - they came with the heatsink
[18:02:21] <JymmmEMC> heatsink yes, fan no
[18:02:31] <eric_u> strange
[18:02:38] <skunkworks_> (and fan)
[18:02:49] <jmkasunich> I just got lost
[18:02:53] <SWPadnos> I don't know if mine has a fan, but it has sufficient cooling tfor the installed CPU
[18:02:54] <JymmmEMC> could always call and ask
[18:03:03] <SWPadnos> anyway. bbl - happy new year
[18:03:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: HNY
[18:03:12] <jmkasunich> I think goal3 and 540 answers just got mixed up
[18:03:36] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich BTW, I could NOT find that model# on ESC website
[18:03:54] <eric_u> ecs does oem stuff
[18:04:19] <jmkasunich> if it runs our distro, I really don't care if it is on the website
[18:04:32] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich BIOS update
[18:04:32] <jmkasunich> I'm certainly not interested in downloading windows drivers for it
[18:04:46] <jmkasunich> if it works, why upgrade?
[18:05:11] <JymmmEMC> Comments mention not being able to boot from USB without BIOS upgrade
[18:05:20] <jmkasunich> don't care
[18:05:35] <jmkasunich> I'll attach a cdrom drive to load the os, then boot from hard disk after that
[18:05:53] <jmkasunich> just like I did with the much older board that is in there now
[18:06:53] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: this is the exact combo I bought (right from my invoice) on 9/13 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135091
[18:07:35] <jmkasunich> ok, yours specifically mentions fan, the one they are selling now doesn't
[18:08:38] <skunkworks_> I think SWPadnos bought them more recently.. Might be worth a call as JymmmEMC says
[18:08:51] <jmkasunich> not really
[18:09:09] <jmkasunich> the pics clearly do NOT show a fan, and the pics of the one you bought clearly DO show a fan
[18:09:16] <eric_u> too bad an l297 costs so much
[18:09:19] <jmkasunich> (fan/sink)
[18:13:31] <skunkworks_> well - that sucks
[18:13:55] <skunkworks_> I paid 79.99 with heatsink and fan.
[18:13:56] <jmkasunich> looks like they have a sink/fan combo that should work for $8
[18:14:10] <jmkasunich> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200042
[18:14:13] <skunkworks_> so - almost the same price
[18:15:34] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich This is the only ref for info/downloads I could find... http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?detailid=405&CategoryID=1&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=1&LanID=0
[18:16:02] <JymmmEMC> it looks like it's rebranded pcchips board
[18:16:51] <jmkasunich> I saw somewhere that PCCHIPS and ECS are the same company
[18:17:37] <JymmmEMC> could be, the design of the website looks alot like ESC's.
[18:17:42] <jmkasunich> hmm, I hope that board doesn't need a new power supply
[18:18:20] <JymmmEMC> 24p + 4p
[18:18:21] <skunkworks_> jmk - it probably does
[18:18:25] <skunkworks_> +4
[18:18:31] <jmkasunich> yeah, the existing one has 20 pins
[18:18:44] <JymmmEMC> pg9 of the manual
[18:19:09] <jmkasunich> I should just stick with my original plan - get the 5i20 in there for hardware step generation, then the RT is much less critical
[18:19:10] <skunkworks_> It also requires the extra 4 pin plug.
[18:19:25] <skunkworks_> heh
[18:19:46] <skunkworks_> it is starting to nickle and dime you to death..
[18:19:51] <jmkasunich> yep
[18:20:05] <jmkasunich> and I'm gonna do the 5i20 anyway
[18:21:27] <skunkworks_> although you can get powersupplies for about the same price as the heatsink/fan.. :)
[18:21:47] <skunkworks_> High quality of cource.
[18:21:49] <skunkworks_> ;)
[18:22:59] <skunkworks_> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817373011
[18:24:01] <jmkasunich> heh
[18:24:30] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks that's 20+4, not 24+4
[18:25:21] <skunkworks_> it has all the plugs needed for the above motherboard..
[18:25:24] <JymmmEMC> Heh, it be really funny if my IdeaPad plus this http://www.cooldrives.com/1ppaspex34.html could run emc
[18:29:53] <skunkworks_> it needs the 20+4 and the 4 pin cpu power connector.
[18:31:21] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks I just saw in the manual that it said 24 not 20 pin main connector, and also has the 4pin as well.
[18:32:27] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Now, if thats to be able to use 20+4 OR just 24 solo, I don't know.
[18:33:36] <skunkworks_> doesn't matter. (some powersupplys don't let you disconnect the +4 - so it is strictly 24)
[18:33:37] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks The IdeaPad is the last computer I will buy that has the 2GB limitation (1.5GB in this case).
[18:34:50] <skunkworks_> have you run the latency test on the ideapad?
[18:34:59] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Did you say that you might be using a P2 currently?
[18:35:12] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks No, I'm dl;ing the Live ISO as we speak
[18:35:14] <jmkasunich> yeah
[18:35:15] <eric_u> I used to think it was funny that windows had a 2gb limit
[18:35:18] <jmkasunich> lemme go look
[18:35:29] <skunkworks_> I know alex_jon1 had gotten a pccard printer port to work.. But I don't think it was triveal.
[18:35:42] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks on a Atom cpu?
[18:35:54] <skunkworks_> I don't think so.
[18:36:02] <skunkworks_> what ever flavor of laptop he had
[18:36:09] <jmkasunich> cpu is hidden under the power supply, can't tell if it is a P2 or P3
[18:36:13] <jmkasunich> definitely slot1 tho
[18:36:18] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks This lil thing rocks, espe only on 512M ram
[18:36:36] <skunkworks_> Our gantry is running a pentium III at the moment - slot 1.
[18:37:01] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich I have some Intel Server mobos P3 1GHz dual cpu
[18:37:32] <jmkasunich> the only reason I was a bit interested in that combo was that it was cheap and had good latency
[18:37:42] <jmkasunich> I really have no need to upgrade the computer
[18:37:44] <eric_u> jmkasunich, what is your latency?
[18:38:21] <jmkasunich> normally pretty good (I've been using the machine for a year now)
[18:38:26] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich These support up to 8GB ram
[18:38:44] <jmkasunich> but every once in a while I get a RT warning
[18:38:56] <eric_u> I get an RT warning every time on startup
[18:38:57] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: why would I want that much memory in a machine controller?
[18:39:17] <eric_u> my system has a hard disk that is only a little larger than that
[18:39:52] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich no swapping
[18:39:54] <jmkasunich> I think the disk might be 10G
[18:40:06] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: you smoking something again?
[18:40:16] <jmkasunich> this is a machine controller - the only thing I ever run on it is emc
[18:40:32] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich If you dont realize the benefits of more ram in a system, there' snot much I could say.
[18:40:42] <jmkasunich> I believe it has 256M (of rambus memory ;-) and it works fine
[18:41:06] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: if you don't get "if it works don't fix it", then there's not much I could say either
[18:41:34] <eric_u> the world is run by lsi11 systems
[18:41:45] <jmkasunich> besides, the default kernels only provide about 3G of usable memory, even if you have more
[18:41:54] <skunkworks_> heh - I have 2 rambus motherboards here. And 4 sticks of 128mb of ram..
[18:42:15] <jmkasunich> my main dev box (which runs the compile farm VMs) has 4G in it, and I decided after farting around all day to live with the kernel that only uses 3.2G
[18:42:29] <jmkasunich> eric_u: lsill?
[18:43:50] <eric_u> probably more than you might wish
[18:45:53] <JymmmEMC> AIC-7896 Ultra1 SCSI
[18:45:57] <JymmmEMC> Ultra 2
[18:46:58] <jmkasunich> oh, LSI-11 ;-)
[18:46:59] <eric_u> my new computer has 8 gig, so I'm going to 64bit
[18:47:20] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: is that the max it can do?
[18:47:31] <skunkworks_> heh - this is great.. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=545660#post545660
[18:47:35] <eric_u> no, but I figured 80 bucks was nice
[18:47:53] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: whats the max out of curiosity?
[18:48:01] <eric_u> we have a system at work that has 128 GB ram
[18:49:18] <eric_u> at some point, it's just overkill
[18:49:31] <eric_u> we also got a cheaper one with 32gb
[18:50:42] <eric_u> JymmmEMC: mine will take 16gb max
[18:50:50] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: k
[18:52:52] <eric_u> skunkworks: that stinks, 15 hours down the drain
[18:53:37] <eric_u> I'm sure the comment by keith orr will make everything so much better
[18:55:22] <skunkworks_> may arm hurts when I do this... Then don't do that..
[18:55:39] <eric_u> well, he said he had done it before
[18:56:44] <eric_u> expect a pissed off guy named Rick to show up somewhere on the list
[18:59:26] <eric_u> skunkworks_: do you troll the mach boards looking for trouble? :)
[19:00:49] <eric_u> I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often, I gave up on windows for control after losing a $2500 extensometer
[19:02:51] <skunkworks_> eric_u: I don't think I post in that forum.. :)
[19:05:10] <eric_u> probably a good policy
[19:06:43] <eric_u> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63772 "what causes the occasional runaway mill?"
[19:11:26] <eric_u> reading that forum makes me think it may be a good thing that all the newbies start with Mach
[19:11:38] <eric_u> I suspect that makes me a bad person
[19:18:19] <eric_u> skunkworks_: that guy with the proxxon that is milling smd boards is doing some pretty impressive stuff
[19:23:12] <skunkworks_> eric_u: the thread I posted in?
[19:23:16] <eric_u> yes
[19:23:40] <eric_u> the mount he is using for the proxxon looks really nice
[19:23:56] <skunkworks_> I will have to look.
[19:24:12] <eric_u> you can only see the bottom part of it though
[19:25:26] <skunkworks_> he has a widgetmaster machine.. I like the looks of them.
[19:25:35] <eric_u> expensive
[19:25:45] <skunkworks_> yes
[19:26:12] <eric_u> you're using a sears version of the rotozip?
[19:26:16] <skunkworks_> yes
[19:26:27] <skunkworks_> works well.
[19:27:48] <JymmmEMC> sears rebarnds everything =) My sears reouter is really Bosch
[19:27:50] <eric_u> someone on cnczone is using the dremel flex shaft tool, I think I might try that
[19:28:09] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: it has a bit of roundout fwiw
[19:28:21] <JymmmEMC> or at least mine does
[19:28:24] <eric_u> now that sears is really kmart, I can't force myself to go in there
[19:28:39] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Heh
[19:28:50] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: come on kmart aint that bad
[19:29:03] <JymmmEMC> =)
[19:29:14] <eric_u> selling the company to a bankrupt company, what could go wrong?
[19:29:31] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: what makes you think kmart is BK?
[19:29:37] <eric_u> it was
[19:31:09] <eric_u> somebody found the break in the string, and BigJohnT_ is back online
[19:31:36] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Ah, I didn't realize that
[19:32:35] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: funny thing is they filed ch11 in 2002, and recovered from ch11 in 2003. Sound like it was a pure financial thing
[19:39:59] <eric_u> bummer, I found my stash of rj45 connectors, so now I have to make an ethernet cable
[19:41:29] <eric_u> skunkworks_: where do you buy your bits?
[19:42:10] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Got Cabletester =)
[19:42:29] <eric_u> JymmmEMC: it's called a computer and a switch
[19:42:44] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: I guess the answer is no =)
[19:43:27] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: is that a gigabait switch and pc with gigabit nic?
[19:43:31] <eric_u> yeah, I mean, no
[19:43:55] <eric_u> JymmmEMC: 100mb switch, gb nic
[19:44:26] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Ah, so can be lazy about it =)
[19:44:43] <eric_u> what would I do differently if I wasn't being lazy about it?
[19:45:13] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: make sure that all 8 were crimped properly and no breaks in the cable
[19:45:28] <eric_u> doesn't seem too hard
[19:46:12] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Well, no it's not. But you should see some of the runs that I've seen others do in the datacenter.... scarry!
[19:46:28] <eric_u> I'm hoping no scars
[19:46:34] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: even BigJohnT's string was better
[19:46:43] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Scars?!
[19:46:47] <eric_u> string just broke
[19:47:05] <eric_u> you said the runs were scarry
[19:47:30] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: crimped like crap, no stress relief on the RJ45's etc
[19:48:01] <JymmmEMC> I'm surprised some even had a link light
[19:48:20] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: runs == cross connects
[19:52:58] <eric_u> this isn't going well so far, my crimper doesn't strip the wire worth a pfffft
[19:56:43] <eric_u> I always figured that the strange way that ethernet is wired is because some guy at DEC made a mistake and they just kept it that way rather than redo the boards
[19:57:20] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: strip the wire, or strip the outter casing?
[19:57:21] <Poincare> ah, the science of network cables crimping :-) make sure you have the RIGHT connectors for your cable
[19:58:08] <eric_u> JymmmEMC: outer casing of course
[19:58:12] <Poincare> don't just use any connectors on any cable...
[20:00:14] <eric_u> Poincare: too late for subtlety
[20:00:25] <eric_u> brute force and bailing wire only
[20:00:42] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: just use a box knife
[20:01:58] <Poincare> what length of cable do you need? i'll make one an you can pick it up in 2 minutes
[20:02:22] <JymmmEMC> 2 minutes.... Is that guarnteed to work =)
[20:03:01] <JymmmEMC> hey, where's the latency test on livecd?
[20:03:02] <eric_u> Poincare: then email it?
[20:03:16] <Poincare> that will work... my failure rate is about 0.05%
[20:04:58] <Poincare> eric_u: if it's short enough to fit in an attachment i can mail it, else i'll have to ftp it to you
[20:04:59] <JymmmEMC> Poincare: cool, come over here I already have the cat5 and rj45's I need 8 runs =)
[20:05:02] <eric_u> you're mocking me, aren't you?
[20:05:08] <JymmmEMC> Poincare: I'll supply the beer
[20:05:31] <eric_u> said in my best buzz lightyear voice
[20:05:51] <Poincare> JymmmEMC: I'd rather use my cables and connectors...
[20:06:17] <Poincare> JymmmEMC: where dou you live?
[20:06:47] <JymmmEMC> Poincare: SF BAy Area
[20:07:05] <Poincare> SF = San Francisco?
[20:07:08] <eric_u> dang, blue/white went where the orange is supposed to go
[20:07:46] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: just hope the other end is the same =)
[20:08:39] <eric_u> that will never happen, curse those lazy DEC bastages
[20:09:01] <skunkworks_> JymmmEMC: just run latency-test from terminal
[20:09:25] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks thanks, found it
[20:09:34] <JymmmEMC> max jitter 366709
[20:09:39] <skunkworks_> eric_u: http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm
[20:09:44] <skunkworks_> ewww
[20:10:02] <skunkworks_> I also use their 1/16" bit for clearing.
[20:11:23] <skunkworks_> JymmmEMC: you still need the twisted pairs paired correctly.. (even if they are the same on both ends..)
[20:11:25] <skunkworks_> :)
[20:12:03] <skunkworks_> (mainly you just need 1,2 and 3,6 twisted... ;)
[20:13:34] <eric_u> I've always been somewhat suspicious about the actual need for the proper twistedness
[20:13:35] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks DO YOU DONT - that's only if you don't want any crosstalk ;)
[20:14:04] <eric_u> maybe on this 30' cable, but on a 5' cable, it can't be that significant
[20:14:53] <Poincare> eric_u: the twist IS important, even on a 5' cable
[20:15:08] <JymmmEMC> See, ppl love the gui latency-test, but it returns inconsistancy with this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
[20:15:10] <Poincare> certainly if you want to use gbit
[20:17:11] <JymmmEMC> Poincare: oh come on, where's the fun in that with no crosstalk =)
[20:18:31] <eric_u> Poincare: do your friends know about this obsession with ethernet cabling?
[20:18:44] <eric_u> :)
[20:18:46] <Poincare> it isn't funny anymore if it's the 99th problem, caused by a wannabe installer, you have to fix :-)
[20:19:25] <Poincare> eric_u: it's an obsession for 'transmission lines', and they know about it
[20:19:36] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ hugs his tecktronic network analizer..
[20:19:46] <JymmmEMC> Poincare: Thus why I have a cable tester, though I wish I had a ring tester too
[20:20:00] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks will it ring the cable?
[20:21:07] <skunkworks_> JymmmEMC: http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/CableIQ+Qualification+Tester/Overview.htm
[20:21:42] <skunkworks_> and http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/flukenetworks/network-testers/linkrunner-pro.htm
[20:21:46] <Poincare> JymmmEMC: if 'SF' is San Francisco, it would set a new record, furthest i had to go for some cables was Las Vegas (comming from Belgium)
[20:22:08] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Heh, that's the one I was just thinking about... it wouldn't ring RG58 0 nfc why though.
[20:22:15] <JymmmEMC> Poincare: =)
[20:22:43] <JymmmEMC> Poincare: I'm assuming that's UK, no bigger the weather is probably the same here as there right now.
[20:22:51] <eric_u> Poincare: that's a big step down in beer quality
[20:22:52] <JymmmEMC> biggy
[20:23:26] <Poincare> pitty that I don't like beer...
[20:23:27] <JymmmEMC> well, we got zillions of micro brewerys around here
[20:23:38] <JymmmEMC> and zillions of winerys too
[20:23:56] <eric_u> Poincare: sacrilege :)
[20:24:01] <JymmmEMC> ok, ovl max latency is 16584nS
[20:24:25] <eric_u> on what system?
[20:24:36] <JymmmEMC> IdeaPad
[20:24:42] <eric_u> not too bad
[20:24:44] <JymmmEMC> IdeaPad S10 w/ 512M
[20:24:53] <eric_u> does it have a parport?
[20:25:12] <eric_u> ok, crimped the second connector, now taking bets
[20:25:20] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Nope, but it does have a expresscard 34 slot =)
[20:25:50] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Hello, it don't even have a cd/dvd drive =)
[20:26:56] <skunkworks_> JymmmEMC: what changed?
[20:27:26] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks using the cli test and not the gui
[20:27:56] <skunkworks_> hmm - what happens when you run glxgears?
[20:28:07] <JymmmEMC> it is running
[20:28:30] <JymmmEMC> I haven't stopped glxgears since the last results
[20:32:05] <jepler> anyone care to suggest an AGP video card with DVI out, good latency, and open source dirvers?
[20:32:40] <jepler> cradek: didn't you discover that G400 has bad latency in 8.04 with the direct rendering driver?
[20:32:53] <jepler> cradek: did you have to turn off all opengl acceleration, or just direct rendering?
[20:33:36] <JymmmEMC> jepler: do you know the diff between the gui latency test and the cli one?
[20:34:00] <jepler> JymmmEMC: the text one is a part of rtai, the graphical one is part of emc
[20:34:46] <cradek> jepler: that is right. to fix it I changed cards around until I found one that does not do direct rendering (millenium II)
[20:34:52] <JymmmEMC> jepler: which one is more accurate? As I'm seeing big differences. Or which one should be trusted more
[20:35:11] <cradek> I could not figure out how to turn off direct rendering but nothing else.
[20:36:12] <jepler> JymmmEMC: the graphical one is running under conditions more like those when you run emc
[20:37:21] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Ok, thanks
[20:37:29] <JymmmEMC> we have sound!
[20:38:06] <JymmmEMC> heh, we have wired network!
[20:42:56] <eric_u> my wife wants to go downtown to see the ice sculptures
[20:43:13] <eric_u> I said, those aren't ice sculptures, those are people
[20:44:21] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: goto the freezer, break some ice cubes and tell her they're ice scultures
[20:44:33] <JymmmEMC> with artistic license
[20:44:44] <JymmmEMC> alex_jon ping
[20:49:36] <eric_u> I guess it would help if I inserted the wires far enough into the connector to make contact
[20:51:03] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: If you don't do it on a daily basis, you get a lil rusty
[20:56:42] <Poincare> eric_u: the offer still stands :-)
[20:56:59] <Poincare> by this time you could have picked it up twice
[21:00:08] <eric_u> starting to look like an attractive offer
[21:00:08] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[21:03:06] <eric_u> making progress, we have continuity
[21:06:09] <eric_unterhausen> yay
[21:06:53] <skunkworks_> heh
[21:37:23] <skunkworks_> heh - it made it to yahoo news
[21:37:24] <skunkworks_> http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/20081231/tc_nf/63809
[21:46:56] <JymmmEMC> are there any good stud finders that are less prone to false readings?
[21:48:12] <skunkworks_> I use a maganet out of a hd and look for nails..
[21:48:38] <skunkworks_> best I have found.. (doesn't work for lath and plaster though) ;)
[21:48:58] <JymmmEMC> looks like that's what I'm goign to have to do here
[21:49:29] <JymmmEMC> even measuring 16" on center is giving wacky results.
[21:49:43] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC grabs magnet and will return..
[21:59:49] <skunkworks_> heh - if I use the printer port to count my 2540 line encoders.. The max I could safely run is 300 rpm ;)
[22:03:35] <alex_joni> greetings from 2009 ;)
[22:04:49] <skunkworks_> Hey alex - happy new year
[22:05:24] <skunkworks_> we are still 8 hours away
[22:11:20] <skunkworks_> does anyone use linux software to rip mpeg videos into dvd format and burn..
[22:11:36] <JymmmEMC> ffmpeg
[22:12:25] <JymmmEMC> but most STB's read SVCD format
[22:12:37] <skunkworks_> JymmmEMC: did the maganet work?
[22:12:58] <skunkworks_> Thanks
[22:13:12] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Yes, thank you. now if the mfg would only make the length == to std 16" on center
[22:13:46] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks I played with making a SVCD once,
[22:14:03] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks why to dvd if I may ask?
[22:14:40] <skunkworks_> I have some videos ripped from tapes (home videos and such) that I want to burn to dvd.
[22:14:57] <skunkworks_> the few programs that I tried (free for windows) sucked
[22:15:09] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks you said nix, does it matter?
[22:15:23] <skunkworks_> nix?
[22:15:55] <skunkworks_> If svcd works - I will try that.
[22:17:14] <JymmmEMC> nix == linux or unix
[22:17:41] <skunkworks_> duh - yes - because I couldn't find any decent free software that worked in windows.. :)
[22:17:44] <eric_unterhausen> irc on a 46" tv is not exactly a perfect solution
[22:19:01] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks search google for avi2dvd
[22:19:26] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Yes, I know it's a mp4 that you said you have.
[22:19:44] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks you will probably need Handbrake too
[22:19:54] <JymmmEMC> mp4 to avi to dvd
[22:20:58] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks FYI.... transcoding is a time comsuming process, dont expect it done in 5 minutes
[22:21:02] <skunkworks_> ah - ok.. I will take a look. one of my many projects for this weekend
[22:21:33] <skunkworks_> yes - I know. (that is what ticked me off with some of the software I tried. - took a long time to creat junk)
[22:21:44] <skunkworks_> :)
[22:22:22] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks what were these videos created with?
[23:03:42] <eric_u1> I have some Moore high speed spindles, but so far all I've done with them is drop them on my head
[23:11:23] <JymmmEMC> ouch