#emc | Logs for 2008-12-30

[00:35:04] <DanielFalck> were does "[TRAJ]NO_FORCE_HOMING=1" go to let an Axis sim setup work without homing? Is it the Axis.ini file?
[00:35:36] <DanielFalck> I did a recent cvs (this last week) and don't see that one in the ini
[00:37:10] <LawrenceG> DanielFalck, I think it goes in whatever machine .ini file you are using
[00:37:13] <jepler> DanielFalck: in this case if it's not listed, it's assumed to be 0
[00:37:22] <jepler> yes, if you want it, put it in yourmachine.ini
[00:38:14] <LawrenceG> Hi Jeff.. whats cookin?
[00:39:34] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: how many miles are you from the US?
[00:39:59] <LawrenceG> about 100 as the crow flies
[00:40:33] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: what city?
[00:41:17] <LawrenceG> Parksville BC is the closest bus depot
[00:41:52] <LawrenceG> Nanaimo is about 1/2 hour away
[00:43:17] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Well, try the US side instead - closest city?
[00:43:46] <LawrenceG> Bellingham then Seattle
[00:49:23] <DanielFalck> re no home stuff- it worked
[00:49:36] <DanielFalck> [TRAJ]NO_FORCE_HOMING
[00:49:55] <DanielFalck> [TRAJ] on a separate line
[00:50:21] <DanielFalck> thanks- I'm using sim at my desktop here
[00:52:06] <cradek> the other (easier?) think you can do is set homing velocity to zero, so home doesn't cause any motion or search for switches
[00:52:17] <cradek> then you can still home
[00:53:36] <cradek> for sim it doesn't matter, but for a machine with no switches there's a huge benefit to homing (so you get soft limits)
[00:54:23] <DanielFalck> oh yea
[00:56:12] <DanielFalck> I'm using axis to backplot gcode and I launch it from gedit- a lot, so not homing is convenient.
[00:56:28] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: $135USD to Bellington WA
[00:56:37] <JymmmEMC> Bellingham WA
[00:56:54] <DanielFalck> I figured out how to alter tool 0 to look a bit different- that was fun
[00:58:49] <DanielFalck> I guess I could put a flag in the tool table to try to show different types of tools
[00:59:36] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, thanks, but will have to pass.... how new are the batteries.... maybe ebay them without batteries to get shipping reasonable... but new batteries are kind of pricey... I just bought a single for my alarm panel
[01:01:59] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: I have batteries, but was including the existing ones in the price.
[01:02:31] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Still, the shipping is price of $130 was two 80lb pkgs
[01:02:48] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: gimme your zip?
[01:04:34] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.ca/view/M6s1ai.html picture of this morning
[01:05:58] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, dont worry about it, I have a 12v UPS which runs nicely off a large battery
[01:17:27] <maddash> SWPadnos: are you there?
[01:20:24] <maddash> SWPadnos: i thought that I had finally rid myself of the rabbit uc forever when i discovered the pic32 line of ucs. turns out that my new project requires 256K of sram (the pic32 only has 32k of ram and can't interface with external memory very well), and the rabbit's pretty much my only choice. the project also requires i2c, so I thought I'd check out the rabbit's i2c lib (i2c.lib): http://www.sonoma.edu/users/b/bloomal/Labs
[01:21:50] <maddash> (sorry i have to vent) fucking rabbit. FPOS. whoever designed this garbage should be shot in the gut.
[01:58:15] <jmkasunich> arrgh
[01:58:40] <jmkasunich> press fit - 0.376 dia hole on a 0.375 shaft
[01:58:48] <jmkasunich> got it half way on, and now it won't budge
[02:00:32] <DanielFalck> the hole was .001 larger than the shaft?
[02:01:04] <jmkasunich> oops
[02:01:14] <jmkasunich> 0.375 hole, 0.376 shaft
[02:01:54] <DanielFalck> ah ok...
[02:02:11] <jmkasunich> the sleeve can be re-made rather easily, the shaft not so
[02:02:17] <KimK> famous saying(?) "Take a Dutchman as he means, not as he says", LOL
[02:02:21] <jmkasunich> I'm about to start turning the sleeve down till I can get it off
[02:02:26] <jmkasunich> grr
[02:02:28] <DanielFalck> is it a through hole?
[02:03:09] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:03:18] <KimK> can you apply heat (lots! i.e. oxy/acet) to swell the hub while cooling the shaft (boiling water, maybe?)
[02:03:39] <jmkasunich> but the sleeve is about 1/4" from a much larger shoulder, so I can't really grab it to pull off
[02:03:59] <jmkasunich> KimK: I already tried propane torch, got it blue (about 500 degrees F)
[02:04:08] <jmkasunich> can't really do much to keep the shaft from heating up
[02:04:18] <jmkasunich> if I had heated it before I put it on, that would have worked great
[02:04:22] <KimK> maybe propane & ice?
[02:04:45] <jmkasunich> can't cool the shaft
[02:05:00] <jmkasunich> the sleeve is 3/4" long, only 1/4" to go
[02:05:06] <KimK> OK. Guess it's turning then.
[02:05:16] <jmkasunich> so I have 1/4" of exposed shaft, and the shaft end is 1/4" down the hole
[02:05:39] <jmkasunich> no way to cool a 1/2" length of shaft from one end and the 1/4" that is exposed
[02:06:00] <DanielFalck> drip liquid propane on it?
[02:06:06] <jmkasunich> lol
[02:06:20] <DanielFalck> turn the propane tank upside down?
[02:06:29] <KimK> How about don't cool it and heat hub till orange (soft)?
[02:06:40] <jmkasunich> that will heat the shaft to orange too
[02:06:52] <KimK> so tap gently
[02:06:56] <jmkasunich> they are simply too well joined to heat only one (or cool only one) at this point
[02:07:00] <DanielFalck> sorry
[02:07:01] <eric_u> my roomie in college was a grad student in Chemistry -- we tried to get a bike stem out by freezing in liquid nitrogen
[02:07:12] <DanielFalck> turn it off
[02:07:17] <eric_u> didn't work, but it was a lotta fun
[02:07:25] <jmkasunich> eric_u: ;-)
[02:11:39] <KimK> You might be interested to know that that is how they keep railroad wheels on railroad axles. The hole (approx 5.0", 5.5", 6.0, 6.5", others?) is 1/64" (~0.016", 0.4mm) too small for the shaft. Cold press too, no heating or cooling.
[02:12:38] <eric_u> there is a lot of that on aircraft engines too, bearings are a interference fit on the shafts
[02:12:39] <KimK> Oops, those are the bearing journal sizes, the wheel lands are a little bigger (inch or two?)
[02:19:43] <jmkasunich> well, turning worked
[02:19:56] <jmkasunich> there is no way anything else was gonna work
[02:20:08] <KimK> sorry you had to give up your hub
[02:20:21] <jmkasunich> I turned it till about 0.005 of sleeve was left, then slit the sleeve with the corner of a triangle file, expecting it to pop off, or at worst peel off
[02:20:37] <jmkasunich> there was an area about 1/8" square that was cold-welded on
[02:21:07] <jmkasunich> even with the rest peeled off, I had to turn that last piece off - no detectable joint between it and the shaft
[02:21:22] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich <-- dumbass - I tried to press it without oil
[02:21:51] <KimK> how much torque does thing handle? what does it do?
[02:22:16] <jmkasunich> very little torque at all, the fit just needs to be enough to keep it from falling off
[02:22:48] <jmkasunich> a couple tenths of interference would do, but trying to hit it that close is really tough
[02:22:59] <KimK> OK. So I guess .001" is too tight then.
[02:23:27] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/worm03.jpg
[02:23:37] <jmkasunich> the part in question is the top one in the pic
[02:24:05] <jmkasunich> the sleeve to the left of the gear provides a surface for a needle bearing to run on to handle radial load
[02:24:41] <jmkasunich> the screw is threaded into the gear and pinned, then turned down to accept the sleeve
[02:29:08] <KimK> Yes, I can see why you didn't want to botch up the shaft. Wise choice. Sorry about the gear. How long did it take to make the gear?
[02:29:34] <jmkasunich> haven't made the gear itself yet - just a gear blank so far
[02:29:45] <jmkasunich> (the pic is from one of these contraptions I made several years ago)
[02:30:18] <jmkasunich> but still - there is a fair amount of time in the gear blank and screw, and I don't have enough bronze to make another blank
[02:30:42] <KimK> Sorry, that must predate me here. Contraptions?
[02:31:03] <jmkasunich> its a test jig I make as a side job
[02:31:13] <KimK> OK
[02:31:18] <jmkasunich> used in labs to test "crack isolation membranes"
[02:31:49] <jmkasunich> if you want to lay ceramic or stone tile on a concrete floor, you put the membrane down first, so when the floor cracks and moves, it won't crack the tile
[02:32:43] <KimK> Interesting, I didn't know they did that. Thanks.
[02:35:49] <KimK> Say, with all the manufacturing capacity available in-channel, does anyone know of any buyers that are looking to have things made? Especially by CNC? A friend of mine has a small CNC shop and is looking for work. Maybe a common complaint these days?
[02:50:17] <toastydeath> small cnc shops, from the chatter at my shop, are the ones having problems right now
[02:50:33] <eric_u> who isn't having problems?
[02:50:40] <toastydeath> bigger shops in my area
[02:50:46] <toastydeath> all hiring
[02:51:22] <toastydeath> our shop couldn't keep one guy on because we're slow, and he was under 90 days
[02:51:38] <eric_u> you're in a small shop?
[02:51:41] <toastydeath> dude got a job right down the street no sweat to one of the places we occasionally outlet work to
[02:51:48] <toastydeath> no, but we do our product and no one else's
[02:52:11] <toastydeath> so when sales is slow, even though we have a decent number of machines, we get thin on work
[02:52:27] <eric_u> so people aren't buying air bearings
[02:52:41] <toastydeath> generally not in the first quarter, no, but it picks up in 2nd and 3rd
[02:52:51] <toastydeath> then we crush to make it out by the end of the year, then it slows down again
[02:53:05] <toastydeath> but with the economy, it's just a little slower this time of year than normal
[02:53:07] <eric_u> isn't that always the way
[02:54:57] <toastydeath> most of our customers are overseas and in industries that haven't been hit, but are slowing production just in case
[02:55:50] <eric_u> I wish I lived in York PA, there are houses selling for $14K
[02:55:53] <eric_u> I could buy a shop
[02:56:04] <toastydeath> wow
[02:56:56] <eric_u> there are probably cheap houses around here, but they are too far away
[02:57:02] <eric_u> the locals are a batch of theives
[04:05:15] <JymmmEMC> Well, just got upgraded!
[04:23:52] <jtr> JymmmEMC - now new and improved!
[04:25:06] <KimK> Upgraded to 8.04? Everything seem OK so far? What's your machine and interface?
[04:25:19] <JymmmEMC> LOL, sorry I meant my internet
[04:25:49] <KimK> Ah, well that's good too
[04:27:20] <JymmmEMC> Right now I have ADSL 3M down, 512K up. In January moving to AT&T U-Verse and will be 18M down, 1.5M up
[04:54:35] <Sliptoni1> This should be a simple question but I sure can't find the answer; How do I configure the default location where emc2 opens files? I don't want to use the default ~/emc2/nc_files.
[04:59:27] <cradek> in the ini file
[04:59:57] <cradek> PROGRAM_PREFIX = ../../nc_files
[05:00:35] <Sliptoni1> Is that the machine config .ini file or the axisrc?
[05:02:50] <Sliptoni1> Got it. Thanks cradek.
[05:15:48] <eric_u> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70620 How do you change an x driver so that it doesn't stick across reboots?
[05:16:51] <eric_u> actually want it to stick across reboots, I'm just wondering how Heinz did it
[05:30:21] <Sliptoni1> Look into the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file for the 'Device' section. There may be a 'Driver' parameter. The newer (8.04) and later generic config doesn't always specify the driver but you could try adding it to force it.
[05:30:56] <Sliptoni1> Also check the /etc/modules and make sure the old driver isn't getting loaded there.
[06:15:15] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, you still awake?
[06:16:20] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: no
[06:16:41] <JymmmEMC> =)
[06:17:08] <JymmmEMC> leave a message at the beep........
[06:17:23] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: whats up?
[06:17:28] <LawrenceG> hey.... I am cursing dvd's.... I want to back up my home directory, but file structure seems to be limited to 6 levels deep.... which mine fails
[06:17:55] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: nix or win?
[06:18:00] <LawrenceG> nix
[06:18:28] <JymmmEMC> are you burning ISO or UDF ?
[06:18:36] <LawrenceG> I could tar it up, but that makes for horrible backups
[06:19:23] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: are you burning ISO or UDF ?
[06:19:38] <JymmmEMC> or shouldI say 'creating'
[06:19:39] <LawrenceG> good question
[06:20:13] <LawrenceG> gnomebaker dvd data disk is all I have found so far
[06:20:36] <JymmmEMC> I doubt it's a level limitation as much as /home/lawernce/cnc stuff/emc/source code/configuration/machine1/really long file name goes here.txt
[06:21:00] <JymmmEMC> ISO is limited by length of full path name size
[06:21:06] <JymmmEMC> UDF not as much
[06:21:10] <LawrenceG> yea.. it says it fails on level 7 and that only 6 are allowed
[06:21:19] <JymmmEMC> using what?
[06:21:47] <LawrenceG> I'll get the error message....
[06:21:54] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: what proggy?
[06:22:02] <LawrenceG> gnomebaker
[06:22:37] <LawrenceG> I: -input-charset not specified, using utf-8 (detected in locale settings)
[06:22:37] <LawrenceG> genisoimage: Directories too deep for 'lg/.macromedia/Flash_Player/macromedia.com/support/flashplayer/sys/#bin.clearspring.com' (7) max is 6.
[06:22:43] <JymmmEMC> I've only burned under win, using nero. but I think you can use mkisofs to create an iso file that you can burn
[06:23:32] <JymmmEMC> you mgight see if there is a mkudffs that cna do the same thing.
[06:24:15] <LawrenceG> I even nuked flash and emc as they failed depth tests.... next one to fail was one of the .gconf directories.... I will see what alternatives I can find
[06:24:58] <JymmmEMC> http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Feisty/CDDVDBurning#How_to_burn_files.2Ffolders_into_CD.2FDVD
[06:25:14] <JymmmEMC> How to create Image (ISO) files from folders Read #General Notes mkisofs -r -o file.iso /location_of_folder/
[06:25:29] <JymmmEMC> -r is recursive I belive
[06:25:37] <LawrenceG> the CD/DVD creator seems to go into an infinite loop.... I dont think it handles 3.4gb of data properly (2gb limit)
[06:27:15] <JymmmEMC> take a look at that page I linke you too, some good info in there (in general)
[06:27:36] <JymmmEMC> bbiab... freezing out here - hard to type, need to warm hands up
[06:27:43] <LawrenceG> cheersd
[06:46:53] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, thanks.... something is cooking :}
[07:19:11] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: ok, im back for a few... how ya doin?
[07:33:37] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, , I think we gotter
[07:34:24] <LawrenceG> k3b seems to work and also burnt one using cmd line stuff building an iso then burning the image
[07:34:48] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: cool beans. ISO's are great things
[07:35:19] <JymmmEMC> did you create the iso using mkisofs by chance?
[07:36:30] <LawrenceG> yes... k3b had some interesting questions about following links and also whether to use long file names that violate jolliet (windows wondt like the dvd)
[07:36:55] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, as M$ isn't case sensative
[07:38:24] <LawrenceG> anyway... I feel happier with a backup... I hate depending on a single piece of hardware... I have had 1 experience with a bad p/s that took out everything including the disk
[07:38:43] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: check out rdiff-backup
[07:39:05] <JymmmEMC> Like rsync with version control
[07:39:32] <JymmmEMC> or just use rsync if you don't need the version control
[07:39:47] <LawrenceG> on my last box, I actually had a spare box that I would only turn on to do backups using rsync
[07:40:21] <LawrenceG> dvds are nice for offsite backup, but they dont get done as often
[07:40:28] <JymmmEMC> I really want a NAS box, but awefully expensive for what I want.
[07:41:09] <JymmmEMC> Well, use rsync + mkosifs to automat it and nag you to burn the ISO's
[07:41:21] <LawrenceG> external sata drive is nice as well... faster than network
[07:41:41] <JymmmEMC> true, I have a 1TB here ext
[07:41:49] <JymmmEMC> via firewire
[07:42:27] <LawrenceG> its time for bed... thanks for your help... catch ya tomorrow or next year!
[07:42:56] <JymmmEMC> G'Night, tomorrow perhapse. glad I was able to help (for once) =)
[07:43:29] <LawrenceG> cheers
[07:53:27] <bob999__> bob999__ is now known as KimK
[08:54:23] <DanielFalck> http://imagebin.org/34596
[08:56:55] <DanielFalck> time for bed
[11:22:52] <LesNewell> Are there any GPL / LGPL experts here?
[11:23:02] <fragalot> Define "expert"
[11:23:21] <LesNewell> If I write a LGPL program, can it call a GPL library (in a dynamic lib)?
[11:23:59] <LesNewell> Also would it then be legal fro the LGPL app to call a closed source library with the GPL lib also loaded?
[11:24:31] <LesNewell> The two libs wouldn't be aware of each other's existence but theoretically they would be in the same address space.
[11:24:55] <fragalot> that's a mighty fine question, to which I do not have an answer :/
[11:25:08] <LesNewell> My brain is melting...
[11:25:37] <fragalot> :p
[11:26:33] <LesNewell> The reason for this is that I am writing a GUI that can be connected to pretty much any motion control system.
[11:27:06] <LesNewell> For instance it could run under Windows and talk to Mach or EMC (via emcrsh)
[11:27:21] <LesNewell> Or even both at the same time :-0
[11:28:07] <fragalot> :o
[11:28:18] <fragalot> Personally, I'd say GO FOR IT, :/
[11:29:12] <LesNewell> It is a fully customizable GUI so you can place your own controls, have multiple pages etc.
[11:29:36] <LesNewell> Comms with the motion control is done through plugins.
[11:30:20] <LesNewell> Currently I have basic control over EMC using emcrsh.
[11:30:39] <LesNewell> Hopefully in the next few days, I'll have it actually controlling hardware, rather than just simulation.
[11:30:57] <fragalot> sounds great
[11:31:23] <LesNewell> Thanks. I am a bit worried about the licensing issues though...
[11:33:06] <fragalot> dno, perhaps ask in #gnu ? :p
[11:33:24] <LesNewell> I might do that. Thanks.
[11:45:22] <LesNewell> Looking at gnu.org, I have found something slightly worrying:
[11:45:24] <LesNewell> If the program is written by US federal government employees in the course of their employment, it is in the public domain, which means it is not copyrighted. Since the GNU GPL is based on copyright, such a program cannot be released under the GNU GPL
[11:45:51] <LesNewell> The original EMC was released by NIST as public domain.
[11:46:20] <LesNewell> Was it legal for the GPL to be applied to the original emc code?
[11:47:56] <archivist> my view is original code has the original license, new code has whatever the writer/s wishes
[11:48:49] <fragalot> tbh, if you leave the licenses like they are, include them with the libs they belong to, and your own app,... Can't really go wrong
[11:49:14] <fragalot> if you don't claim you've written them, i don't really see a lawsuit pending,.. especially if yours will be freeware too
[12:06:04] <LesNewell> I'm just trying to figure out the worst-case scenario. I expect to release my code under LGPL.
[12:06:45] <LesNewell> From what I understand so far, if I distribute my app with both closed and LGPL plugins it will be in violation.
[12:07:12] <LesNewell> However if someone else distributes the closed plugins that would be legal.
[12:07:16] <LesNewell> AARGGH
[12:08:57] <archivist> isnt gpl3 supposed to sort the sillyness out
[12:12:06] <LesNewell> Most EMC code is GPL2. You cannot mix GPL2 and GPL3 in one app.
[12:12:08] <maddash> maddash is now known as jubjub
[12:14:08] <fragalot> LesNewell: as i suggested earlier, join #gnu and ask.
[12:14:13] <fragalot> it's why that channel is arround
[12:25:35] <LesNewell> They aren't all that sure either :-)
[12:27:20] <archivist> seems a hotbed of techies in the Devon Cornwall area judging by ebay toys
[12:36:20] <LesNewell> LOL. yup, MarchantDice are just down the road - great for ballscrews, slides etc.
[12:42:34] <fragalot> lucky
[12:43:50] <archivist> I currently looking for electronics test gear and find a few sellers from the area
[12:49:21] <LesNewell> You can never have enough test gear :-)
[12:49:41] <archivist> :)
[12:49:50] <archivist> I has a habit
[12:51:02] <LesNewell> I can kick the habit any time.
[12:51:07] <LesNewell> Honest.
[12:51:22] <archivist> whenever you run out of money?
[12:54:41] <LesNewell> Something like that :-)
[12:55:12] <LesNewell> There seems to be a fair number of UK guys here.
[12:57:54] <archivist> a few, they dont all lurk in channel full time though
[12:58:41] <fragalot> nah, only during the day
[12:58:49] <fragalot> some at night, but most need sleep
[12:59:11] <archivist> sleep! wimps
[12:59:20] <fragalot> old age..
[13:54:11] <skunkworks_> I pulled out an old motherboard - slot 1 500mhz. ran the latency test and glxgears all night. this morning latency was 13000 :)
[13:55:07] <skunkworks_> took 3 tries to find working memory to atleast get me to 320mb
[13:55:46] <skunkworks_> I installed dapper. the old drive that I found to use with it actually had bdi on it.. (didn't boot though)
[13:56:22] <skunkworks_> actually I don't know that.. I gave up after it was at the splash screen for a few minutes.
[13:58:23] <LesNewell> If you really want to beat on that motherboard, try glblur.
[13:58:41] <LesNewell> If you haven't got hardware opengl your mouse may get a bit erratic...
[14:02:32] <skunkworks_> heh - on this machine glxgears is really slow..
[14:02:45] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark
[14:02:45] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-30.txt
[14:04:01] <LesNewell_> Maybe not such a good idea. Makes my 1.5GHz Dell cough.
[14:04:31] <LesNewell_> My latency's worse than yours :-(
[14:11:31] <skunkworks_> what kind of numbers are we talking?
[14:13:27] <archivist> 17500 on my 800 meg athlon for glblur
[14:16:01] <LesNewell_> dammit- XChat for Windows keeps crashing on me.
[14:28:24] <LesNewell_> Just tried running EMC in a virtual box under Windows - latency's a bit high :-)
[14:28:53] <archivist> windows!!!! get linux installed over the top of windows that fixes it
[14:29:28] <archivist> 12300 on a P4 with glblur
[14:29:46] <LesNewell_> lol. Much as I hate to admit it, I find it quicker to develop code with VS2005
[14:30:12] <LesNewell_> I love the debugger.
[14:41:53] <skunkworks_> I will have to try glblur
[14:53:38] <LesNewell_> VirtualBox latency 1161419446 and counting
[14:53:57] <LesNewell_> Do you think it will run my steppers at 100kHz pulse rate? :-)
[14:54:20] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:54:36] <skunkworks_> you should probably go back to mach... ;)
[15:02:46] <LesNewell_> Er - not if I can help it. I need something reliable.
[15:10:59] <skunkworks_> archivist: there is a guy on cnczone looking at doing gear hobbing..
[15:11:25] <archivist> where?
[15:11:42] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70544
[15:11:47] <skunkworks_> using 2 rotories?
[15:12:08] <skunkworks_> I don't really understand what he is trying to do.. (as you can see from my uninformed post)
[15:15:37] <archivist> bevel with flycutter is not hobbing
[15:16:41] <archivist> dunno why he want to ignore Z thats silly
[15:17:04] <archivist> unless he is too tight to get another drive
[15:21:19] <archivist> but he is attempting to generate, that will be fun! and not sure of maths and correctness with a bevel
[15:22:42] <alex_joni> LesNewell_: that's the proper attitude ;)
[15:23:54] <LesNewell_> It was the last straw when it stuffed a cutter into my chuck on my lathe fro no apparent reason.
[15:24:06] <alex_joni> ouch :/
[15:24:13] <alex_joni> did you run winamp?
[15:24:19] <LesNewell_> 10HP spindle motor + 1HP serbo = big mess :-(
[15:24:23] <alex_joni> I hear that messes things really good up
[15:24:25] <skunkworks_> so far all my crashes have been from me ;)
[15:24:26] <LesNewell_> er - servo
[15:24:36] <alex_joni> g340's ?
[15:25:07] <LesNewell_> Rutex servo drives - they just keep trying in a crash.
[15:25:23] <Vortex> LesNewell_: you was using mach?
[15:25:28] <alex_joni> how are they driven?
[15:25:39] <LesNewell_> I was using Mach.
[15:26:00] <alex_joni> step/dir or some servo int?
[15:26:05] <Vortex> I had heard lot of similar stories
[15:26:06] <skunkworks_> the must be step/dir
[15:26:15] <alex_joni> e.g. analog, serial, eth, ...
[15:26:21] <LesNewell_> step/dir. They have a HUGE following error limit.
[15:26:27] <skunkworks_> heh
[15:26:30] <alex_joni> I see
[15:26:43] <alex_joni> you might want to try a hardware board sometimes..
[15:26:49] <alex_joni> I hear it makes a huge difference :D
[15:27:20] <alex_joni> you basicly have lots of advantages (besides the extra cost ;)
[15:27:23] <LesNewell_> Got EMC on the lathe now. Love the MPG response. Not so keen on the available GUIs
[15:27:41] <alex_joni> well.. that's the fun part in emc2 :)
[15:27:48] <alex_joni> you can always write your own
[15:27:58] <Vortex> #lapitor
[15:28:07] <Vortex> fuck
[15:28:17] <Vortex> wrong window sorry
[15:28:21] <LesNewell_> Funny you should say that - look in the logs fro an earlier discussion :-)
[15:28:44] <alex_joni> my connection is crappy atm.. I can barely type
[15:28:50] <alex_joni> logger_emc: bookmark
[15:28:50] <alex_joni> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-30.txt
[15:28:51] <LesNewell_> Been looking on the Mesa site - Drool...
[15:29:26] <alex_joni> I have an unused 5i20 + a couple breakouts from them
[15:29:31] <alex_joni> nice stuff ;)
[15:30:20] <LesNewell_> Their 2kw drive loks tasty as well.
[15:32:18] <alex_joni> was the discussion today?
[15:32:35] <LesNewell_> Yup. A couple of hours ago.
[15:33:06] <alex_joni> ok, so only the GPL2 vs. GPL3 vs LGPL part?
[15:34:00] <LesNewell_> Yes. It is a problem for me 'cos the front end is pretty universal. It could even be used as a front end for Mach.
[15:35:03] <alex_joni> I understand that
[15:37:22] <alex_joni> LesNewell_: we had a guy from FSF contact us a while ago, he was (if my memory serves me right) a licensing engineer
[15:37:34] <alex_joni> I'll try to look up his email addy, and send it to you if you want
[15:40:34] <LesNewell_> Thanks. I am in the process of ripping my plugin system apart to use sockets instead.
[15:40:43] <LesNewell_> That way I'll be completely covered.
[15:41:06] <alex_joni> guess what
[15:41:14] <alex_joni> I just found an email from you from 20 dec. 2005 ;)
[15:41:26] <alex_joni> I didn't remember that we had contact that far back :)
[15:41:39] <LesNewell_> What was that about?
[15:42:13] <alex_joni> the emc1 interpreter
[15:42:28] <LesNewell_> Oh yes. That was fro the GRex project.
[15:43:28] <LesNewell_> This new GUI fro emc is based on work for the GRex
[15:44:55] <alex_joni> got a screenshot?
[15:45:13] <LesNewell_> Coming up if I can get GIMP to play ball.
[15:46:38] <LesNewell_> http://www.sheetcam.com/emc/shot.png
[15:46:50] <LesNewell_> This is only a testing layout.
[15:46:57] <LesNewell_> It has a built-in layout editor.
[15:47:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni watches bytes dribble in
[15:47:33] <LesNewell_> The screenshot shows it running on my Windows office comp and talking to emcrsh running on my house comp.
[15:47:59] <alex_joni> I always wondered what the attraction for coloured buttons was
[15:48:25] <LesNewell_> If you don't like the bling, it is easy to change the graphics through config files.
[15:48:44] <LesNewell_> I was just testing the theme code.
[15:48:55] <alex_joni> good to know, but it still makes me wonder :D
[15:49:20] <LesNewell_> Das blinkenlights - impresses the yokels.
[15:52:22] <alex_joni> I only like towel.blinkenlights.nl ;)
[15:53:17] <LesNewell_> alex_joni: Broken link
[15:54:15] <LesNewell_> I like http://blinkenlights.net/
[15:54:50] <LesNewell_> Defintiely thinking big :-)
[15:55:22] <LesNewell_> If your're into electro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWL1QOXAcgM
[16:02:46] <alex_joni> LesNewell_: you need to connect using telnet
[16:02:53] <alex_joni> telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
[16:03:36] <alex_joni> btw, I finally found the email I was after:
[16:03:45] <alex_joni> Licensing Compliance Engineer, Free Software Foundation
[16:04:01] <alex_joni> seems it's from 2006 ;) so not sure he still works tehre, but I can send you his email addy
[16:04:28] <LesNewell_> Thanks. It would be handy.
[16:04:57] <LesNewell_> towel.blinkenlights.nl is good :-)
[16:05:05] <alex_joni> is your fastmail addy still valid?
[16:05:38] <LesNewell_> Should be.
[16:05:47] <alex_joni> sent
[16:05:49] <alex_joni> bbl
[16:05:50] <LesNewell_> thx
[16:18:31] <alex_joni> back,(with firewood even)
[16:50:00] <skunkworks_> 'Speaking of Mach3: The price is going to increase on January 1st. You might want to order it before then.'
[16:50:41] <archivist> * archivist doesnt bother
[16:50:47] <seb_kuzminsky> emc2's price will double on Jan 1
[16:50:57] <LesNewell_> 0 * 2 =0
[16:50:59] <archivist> * archivist buys more
[16:52:59] <JymmmEMC> alex_jon Just curious, do you have anything like AQMD/EPA out there?
[16:53:50] <alex_joni> AQMD/EPA?
[16:54:12] <alex_joni> my google skills are rather limited
[16:54:36] <alex_joni> air quality?
[16:54:56] <seb_kuzminsky> alex_jon1: EPA is the Environmental Protection Agency
[16:55:08] <seb_kuzminsky> they bust you for pollution crime
[16:55:19] <alex_joni> sure there is
[16:55:21] <JymmmEMC> alex_jon what seb_kuzminsky said
[16:55:44] <alex_joni> and I'm quite confident the restrictions are more harsh than in the US
[16:55:45] <JymmmEMC> alex_jon do they restrict fireplace usage on certain days?
[16:56:02] <LesNewell_> There are air quality laws in some towns here. Depends where you live.
[16:56:31] <seb_kuzminsky> epa is federal, local laws may be stricter
[16:56:35] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: home use fireplaces? nope
[16:57:21] <JymmmEMC> alex_jon K. Here, on bad days they do. 1st notice is a warning. 2nd is a $500 USD fine, 3rd is $1000
[16:57:40] <JymmmEMC> and they have ppl driving around checking chimneys
[16:57:50] <alex_joni> there are houses here that only have wood heating
[16:58:01] <alex_joni> I'd say the majority rural population
[16:58:12] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, and wood is MUCH cheaper than gas/electric
[16:58:47] <skunkworks_> hey - turbocnc v5 will run in windows.... http://www.dakeng.com/turbocnc5.html
[16:59:24] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: yay?
[16:59:30] <jmkasunich> the "here" that JymmmEMC is talking about is california
[16:59:45] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: figured as much :)
[17:00:19] <jmkasunich> chimney checkers - I know of places in the US where chimney checkers might get shot
[17:00:59] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich I wish that was here... Some ppl especially elderly can't afford to heat their place otherwise
[17:01:14] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: um yah.. Sounds like it is just 4.01 with a gui.
[17:01:31] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: hmm.. no coloured buttons, but they couldn't help with simple text displays
[17:01:50] <alex_joni> had to use those "nifty" LED displays
[17:02:26] <JymmmEMC> Well, they have a 3D view too it seems
[17:05:24] <JymmmEMC> I don't think I would even bother with TCNC5
[17:05:35] <JymmmEMC> But I actually like MS-DOS too =)
[17:06:28] <alex_joni> I'm not sure it's 3D
[17:06:49] <JymmmEMC> well, a visual then =)
[17:46:13] <eric_u> my new motherboard has a com port, but it is just a header, no db9 connector. kinda sad
[17:47:44] <JanVanGilsen> Hi, I added some minor ticks to the meter widget http://imagebin.org/34611
[17:47:59] <JanVanGilsen> someone who wants to commit it?
[17:52:13] <jmkasunich> put a patch on pastebin, I'll review and commit
[17:52:30] <JanVanGilsen> http://pastebin.com/m32c6e8e0
[17:53:01] <jmkasunich> what file does that go in?
[17:53:22] <JanVanGilsen> pyvcp_widgets.py
[17:53:55] <JanVanGilsen> line 14 -> 20 make the minor ticks
[17:54:46] <jmkasunich> you mean lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py?
[17:55:14] <JanVanGilsen> indeed
[17:57:05] <jmkasunich> this would be easier if you posted an actual patch
[17:57:46] <JanVanGilsen> if i'd knew how ...
[17:57:55] <jmkasunich> is your code supposed to replace the "draw_ticks(self,cpr)" at line 271?
[17:59:21] <jmkasunich> oh, I bet it is the draw_ticks(self) at line 345
[17:59:47] <jmkasunich> are you working on a cvs checkout?
[17:59:48] <JanVanGilsen> indeed
[17:59:52] <JanVanGilsen> yes
[18:00:15] <jmkasunich> cvs diff -u will show the differences between your modified checkout and the original
[18:00:44] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure if that is exactly a patch, but it is certainly close - if you can pastebin that it would help
[18:05:41] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich wiats
[18:05:47] <jmkasunich> waits even
[18:06:02] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: vacation been productive?
[18:06:04] <cradek> jmkasunich: the thing from cvs diff -u is exactly a patch, which is nice
[18:06:24] <jmkasunich> cradek: thanks - I wasn't sure if any additional diff options were needed
[18:06:30] <cradek> nope
[18:07:09] <jmkasunich> there are some long expressions in that function, I don't feel like going crosseyed comparing original vs. modified, so I'm waiting for the patch
[18:07:24] <jmkasunich> I think the only changes are the code tacked onto the end tho
[18:07:33] <JanVanGilsen> http://pastebin.com/m383ed75e
[18:08:00] <jmkasunich> JanVanGilsen: thanks
[18:08:40] <cradek> I only get the first 14 lines - it is cut off
[18:09:16] <jmkasunich> hmm, true - there should be a couple lines of unmodified context at the end
[18:09:50] <jmkasunich> interesting that the original pastebin cut off at the exact same place
[18:12:36] <jmkasunich> JanVanGilsen: this is what my cvs diff looks like: http://pastebin.com/d19c3f69a
[18:13:24] <jmkasunich> why doesn't your diff show the last couple lines? did you not paste them?
[18:16:08] <JanVanGilsen> http://pastebin.com/m4b4fae6b
[18:16:14] <skunkworks_> heh - when you jog turbocnc5 the dro says 'moving' instead of displaying the position.
[18:16:37] <JanVanGilsen> i didnn't paste them
[18:17:00] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ hugs emc2
[18:18:00] <jmkasunich> thanks JanVanGilsen - changes committed
[18:18:58] <LesNewell_> skunkworks_: yech
[18:19:33] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: you actually tried that? ewww
[18:19:45] <skunkworks_> heh - it didn't trip the virus software...
[18:21:31] <JanVanGilsen> hehe thank you for committing :)
[18:21:37] <alex_joni> might be a manual virus :)
[18:22:37] <jmkasunich> a CNC virus - it machines copies of itself
[18:22:42] <archivist> nah its a dos attack
[18:24:09] <alex_joni> ah, now I know what DOS stands for ;)
[18:33:04] <LesNewell_> By the way, what was the final conclusion with my lathe diameter patch?
[18:34:47] <jmkasunich> I wasn't following that closely
[18:35:03] <jmkasunich> I thought there was some uncertainty about things like canned cycles?
[18:35:17] <LesNewell_> I sorta lost track myself.
[18:35:49] <LesNewell_> As far as I can remember we couldn't get any agreement on what happened with the threading canned cycle.
[18:37:30] <Guest289> hello all, Jerry here, I have a test system on my laptop, just setting it up (not hooked to anything), and I can't start the code, I keep getting a joint 1 on limit. I have the limits switches as inverted so as to not have them
[18:38:07] <Guest289> the laptop is being used to test axis mods, not to run a machine.
[18:39:34] <Guest289> just realized there is no parallel port on this machine so maybe I don't have to invert the joint 1 limit?
[18:40:41] <LesNewell_> wyoudn't you be best off using one of the sim configs then?
[18:41:50] <Guest289> I guess I could, but had just copied the config from my running machine over since it had the filters, etc mods in the ini. I am going to try to not invert joint 1, didn't try that
[18:42:28] <jmkasunich> Guest289: use halcmd or halmeter to look at the limit signals
[18:42:52] <jmkasunich> if your computer has no parport, but you are running the parport driver, you are going to be reading garbage
[18:43:19] <Guest289> is there a way to tell emc to just ignore the limit switches? I don't have them on my mill either
[18:43:21] <jmkasunich> and you are going to be writing "step pulses" to some I/O address where the is (hopefully) no hardware
[18:43:42] <jmkasunich> if you really don't have them, then don't connect them in your hal file
[18:43:44] <Guest289> working now with joint 1 in non-invert
[18:44:06] <jmkasunich> (if your hal file was generated by stepconf, then I don't know - doesn't it let you choose that?)
[18:44:36] <Guest289> you can choose to invert or not invert but I didn't see a place for ignore or don't have...
[18:44:51] <jmkasunich> ok
[18:45:10] <jmkasunich> I haven't used stepconf enough to know what all its options are
[18:45:30] <jmkasunich> don't you get to decide what is on each parport pin?
[18:45:31] <Guest289> also, does the mdi command when run in a terminal window work? I am getting an emcstatusbuffer invalid error
[18:46:27] <Guest289> in stepconf you can make the limits 'unused' I guess I should have seen that
[18:46:44] <jmkasunich> dunno what you are saying - if you are doing something in a terminal shell, copy the exact command and the exact response and paste it here (or at pastebin.ca if it is more than a few lines long)
[18:48:04] <Guest289> the exact command is -> mdi /path/to/emc.nml
[18:48:19] <Guest289> I then get the MDI> prompt and just press enter to get the status
[18:48:19] <jmkasunich> with EMC already running?
[18:48:24] <Guest289> yes, emc is running
[18:48:58] <jmkasunich> I'm afraid someone else will have to help, I have no experience with the command line mdi (didn't even know it existed to be honest)
[18:49:12] <Guest289> pressing enter gives me a traceback with the final line being -> emc.error: emcStatusBuffer invalid
[18:49:27] <Guest289> you are supposed to get status
[18:51:24] <Guest289> another question, i can't get this java based app to start in firefox under ubuntu, it keeps asking for a plug-in, I've downloaded and installed them all...
[18:59:21] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/photography/01230658670
[19:01:53] <archivist> alex_jon1, I should have been out taking pictures today, got a new to me Canon
[19:08:47] <skunkworks_> huh - I thought the busybox prompt was the pollirq issue. I think I might be wrong.
[19:09:21] <skunkworks_> * irqpoll
[19:13:25] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: be my guest and suggest that ;)
[19:13:39] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: what Canon?
[19:15:40] <archivist> alex_joni a 300D I got given a dead one, tried to repair (not very hard) but went and got one on ebay yesterday,
[19:16:23] <alex_joni> sweet.. guess it's not very pricey these days..
[19:16:35] <archivist> £143
[19:16:57] <alex_joni> that's about 200 eur?
[19:16:59] <archivist> at xmas the price was higer had to wait till just after :)
[19:17:17] <alex_joni> did you get a kit or only the body?
[19:17:18] <archivist> about dunno what the rates are atm
[19:17:42] <archivist> includes lens and box of bits etc
[19:18:03] <alex_joni> cool. wonder what the current price on a 1000D is
[19:18:13] <archivist> I had film EOS so have a long zoom to fit as well
[19:18:55] <archivist> dunno wasnt looking at that model
[19:19:28] <alex_joni> it's the last from the rebel series
[19:19:52] <alex_joni> hmm.. about double than that
[19:20:02] <alex_joni> ~400 EUR
[19:21:42] <archivist> seem to be 350-400 £ here
[19:24:00] <alex_joni> good night all
[19:24:55] <jepler> good night alex_joni
[19:25:03] <archivist> see ya
[19:36:03] <micges> hello all
[19:38:06] <micges> cradek: when I'm running this config http://www.pastebin.ca/1292221 , I have different axis x velocity than commanded
[19:38:29] <micges> when I'm F500 I have 417 on ddt
[19:38:48] <micges> can you take a look ?
[19:48:20] <seb_kuzminsky> micges: that ini has MAX_VELOCITY=80 for all axes... how are you getting 417 i wonder?
[19:49:15] <micges> I've tried for 3h with alex fix it but with no result
[19:49:52] <seb_kuzminsky> how can you get a vel 5x higher than your specified max vel? something smells fishy
[19:50:02] <micges> look at http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-23.txt
[19:50:07] <SWPadnos> 417 is mm/m, not mm/s like the ini
[19:50:12] <micges> at 13:38
[19:50:21] <seb_kuzminsky> awesome
[19:50:27] <SWPadnos> it happens to be a ratio of 50:60 (417 is 5/6 of 500)
[19:50:35] <SWPadnos> (dunno if that matters)
[19:51:27] <micges> SWPadnos: I see that you look at the conversation , any idea why changing servo-period changes fb velocity ?
[19:51:57] <SWPadnos> could be something weird with ddt
[19:52:03] <SWPadnos> shouldn't be, but could be
[19:52:35] <micges> I have 417 on axis.0 hal, and ddt
[19:52:44] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:52:56] <SWPadnos> what hardware?
[19:53:09] <SWPadnos> your PID parameters look far different from any I'v eseen
[19:53:11] <jepler> yeah it must be due to european 50Hz AC power
[19:53:19] <SWPadnos> I of 35000 is insanely high
[19:53:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:53:26] <seb_kuzminsky> his gains are in metric
[19:53:30] <seb_kuzminsky> ;-)
[19:53:32] <SWPadnos> :P
[19:53:33] <micges> heh
[19:53:40] <micges> yes metric only
[19:54:04] <seb_kuzminsky> micges: what's your hardware? are you stepping out the parport?
[19:54:12] <micges> hw is 3x baldor servo driven by analog vel signal
[19:54:18] <SWPadnos> not with that base period
[19:54:27] <seb_kuzminsky> what's making the analog vel signal?
[19:54:30] <micges> io card simmilar to mesa or so
[19:54:38] <seb_kuzminsky> but not a mesa?
[19:54:48] <micges> connected with pc thru LPT
[19:54:54] <SWPadnos> ok, so it's got encoder inputs and analog output?
[19:54:57] <SWPadnos> PPMC?
[19:54:59] <SWPadnos> custom?
[19:55:00] <seb_kuzminsky> pluto?
[19:55:06] <micges> own production
[19:55:08] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:55:30] <seb_kuzminsky> have you scoped the analog vel-control signals coming out of your controller going to the baldor amps?
[19:55:31] <SWPadnos> you should get a following error if the hardware refuses to keep up, so that shouldn't be the problem
[19:55:41] <micges> processor + io pins + enc counters + some stuff
[19:56:08] <SWPadnos> well, I don't know what the problem is, and I have to think about moving the lathe now. good luck :)
[19:56:20] <seb_kuzminsky> good luck with your new lathe SWPadnos :-)
[19:56:22] <jepler> you should reduce the configuration to one that can be run as a simulator; that would help us actually look at the behavior on our own systems
[19:56:25] <SWPadnos> thanks
[19:56:31] <archivist> still on the trailer?
[19:56:40] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:56:50] <micges> current vel from status is 500
[19:56:50] <SWPadnos> should get it lifted off today
[19:57:12] <SWPadnos> pure X move (no Y/Z)?
[19:57:20] <micges> yes
[19:57:26] <SWPadnos> ok (just checking :) )
[19:57:27] <micges> on sim it is also
[19:57:30] <seb_kuzminsky> micges: and what voltage is your board sending to the baldor?
[19:57:37] <micges> +- 20v
[19:57:44] <micges> sorry +- 10 v
[19:58:05] <jepler> see, that's why you should reduce it to showing the problem is on sim -- that proves that it's not due to your hardware interface or to you drives, none of which we have
[19:58:12] <jepler> then we can skip this whole discussion
[19:59:48] <seb_kuzminsky> no micges i was asking: when you command a 500 mm/m move and the ddt of x-pos-feedback says 417 mm/m, what voltage is your board actually outputting?
[20:00:53] <micges> don't know
[20:01:21] <micges> when I saw same problem on sim I have not measured it
[20:01:56] <seb_kuzminsky> oh so you *have* a sim config that shows the problem?
[20:03:21] <micges> on that config http://www.pastebin.ca/1292221 when you run it with sim configuration will se the problem
[20:03:34] <micges> sim_mm
[20:06:02] <jepler> no, we can't run that file because it refers to hal files that we don't have (core.hal)
[20:07:04] <micges> jepler: copy only params from traj, emcmot, axis_n to sim and run
[20:10:38] <seb_kuzminsky> micges: replace the traj, emcmot, and axis_? parts in sim/axis_mm.ini with the ones from your pastebin?
[20:10:55] <micges> yes
[20:12:34] <jepler> ok, so what part is *different* from axis_mm.ini? I don't see this behavior you describe with axis_mm.ini, so knowing that you should concentrate on the differences
[20:14:34] <jepler> you know which parts, when moved around, cause the problem to happen
[20:14:39] <jepler> now narrow it down to as small a part as you can
[20:14:50] <micges> ok
[20:15:25] <micges> base period to 150000
[20:16:00] <micges> all traj section and all params from axis_0
[20:16:02] <seb_kuzminsky> noob alert here... i started emc2 with the axis_mm config with micges changes, it wont let me move because it's not homed...
[20:16:15] <seb_kuzminsky> when i try to home it it just takes off
[20:16:35] <micges> set search latch vel to 0
[20:16:36] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: remove all the HOME_ lines from [AXIS] to get "homing does nothing" behavior
[20:16:42] <seb_kuzminsky> thx
[20:17:30] <micges> jepler: didn't know that default behavoiur is home does nothing, thanks
[20:17:32] <jepler> ah in fact it is the relationship between BASE_PERIOD and SERVO_PERIOD
[20:18:02] <micges> I have base to 150000- it does nothing
[20:18:11] <micges> I have servo to 1000000
[20:18:46] <micges> I have pid-thread additionally set to 300000 (2x base thread)
[20:18:50] <seb_kuzminsky> micges: i did what you said, and "g0 x100 f500" gives me a reported vel of 4800 (80 * 60)
[20:19:00] <seb_kuzminsky> so i dont see it
[20:19:13] <seb_kuzminsky> that's with axis_mm with those sections from your .ini
[20:19:30] <micges> wait
[20:19:55] <jepler> change BASE_PERIOD in sim_mm.ini to 150000 and you'll see this behavior that micges reports
[20:20:20] <jepler> I get 476.19048 = 500 * 1000000 / 1050000
[20:20:35] <jepler> because the motion planner actually gets a period of 1.05ms, a multiple of 150us
[20:21:34] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm using axis_mm, the [EMCMOT]BASE_PERIOD is 150000
[20:21:39] <seb_kuzminsky> SERVO_PERIOD = 1000000
[20:21:41] <micges> jepler: on my config:
[20:21:42] <micges> 13:38:35 <micgesEMC> ok I have clue: when I change servo-period from 1000.000 to 500.000 I have : f500 fb-vel=379
[20:21:42] <micges> 13:39:40 <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks in cradek's direction :)
[20:21:42] <micges> 13:40:27 <micgesEMC> when I change servo-period from 1000.000 to 2.000.000 I have : f500 fb-vel=477
[20:21:52] <seb_kuzminsky> TRAJ_PERIOD = 10,000,000 (without ,'s)
[20:23:06] <jepler> if you don't run anything in BASE_PERIOD, set it the same as SERVO_PERIOD, or set it to 0
[20:23:33] <micges> I must have pid-thread at 3,3 khz
[20:23:36] <jepler> in a "real" system you'll still see some error but not quite as large because the requested period and the actual period will not quite be the same
[20:23:44] <micges> float function thread
[20:23:46] <jepler> ok, then make SERVO_PERIOD an exact multiple of BASE_PERIOD
[20:24:01] <jepler> I misunderstood "I have base to 150000- it does nothing"
[20:24:23] <micges> that was only way to run it
[20:26:13] <jepler> OK, what I'm saying is that the fix to your inifile is to make sure SERVO_PERIOD is an exact integer multiple of BASE_PERIOD, and TRAJ_PERIOD is an exact integer multiple of SERVO_PERIOD
[20:26:32] <jepler> you'll still have some small error due to not getting the exact BASE_PERIOD you requested, but it will be much smaller than the 5% error you get now
[20:26:47] <seb_kuzminsky> i've got BASE_PERIOD=0, SERVO_PERIOD=666,000, TRAJ_PERIOD=10,000,000 and no problem visible
[20:28:00] <seb_kuzminsky> are you guys seeing the problem by tweaking configs/sim/axis_mm.ini? or something else?
[20:28:27] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: yes. I saw a problem when I changed BASE_PERIOD to 150000 in axis_mm.ini and observed Xvel in halmeter
[20:29:00] <seb_kuzminsky> ah, i was looking at the "Vel:" display in axis
[20:29:19] <jepler> running this program: G21 / G0X0Y0Z0 / G4P1 / G1X200F[10*60] / G4P1 / G0X0Y0Z0 / M2
[20:29:30] <jepler> I expected to see 10 for Xvel in halmeter but saw 9.5xx
[20:30:51] <seb_kuzminsky> i ran this: "g0 x100 f500", axis' Vel said 4800 (expected), and halmeter Xvel said 80 (expected, i think)
[20:31:16] <micges> seb: g1 not g0
[20:31:20] <jepler> use g1 so it goes at the requested feed rate
[20:31:31] <seb_kuzminsky> sorry
[20:31:31] <MrSipan> can someone recommend me a small cnc machine for jewelry/rings/goldsmith work? Thanks!
[20:32:35] <seb_kuzminsky> ok with jeff's program Xvel is 10 and axis vel is 600
[20:32:53] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: if you were seeing the bug with your G0 Xvel would be about 76.19 instead of 80
[20:33:21] <SWPadnos> seb_kuzminsky, do you currently have SERVO_PERIOD = (not an integer multiple of BASE_PERIOD)?
[20:33:35] <seb_kuzminsky> BASE_PERIOD=0, SERVO_PERIOD=666,000
[20:33:39] <jepler> -BASE_PERIOD = 1000000
[20:33:39] <jepler> +BASE_PERIOD = 150000
[20:33:41] <SWPadnos> 0?
[20:33:51] <micges> jepler: I can see solution for it, but can't see reason ?
[20:33:52] <jepler> this is the change I am suggesting to see the buggy behavior
[20:34:25] <seb_kuzminsky> SWPadnos: yes 0
[20:34:51] <SWPadnos> do you get a base thread with that? (it's obviously not possible to have one with 0 period)
[20:34:58] <jepler> micges: because emc/motion/motion.c does calculations about servo_base_ratio based on the inifile PERIODs, not the actual periods of the threads
[20:35:18] <seb_kuzminsky> SWPadnos: i have only a servo thread
[20:35:37] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:35:37] <seb_kuzminsky> jeff suggested it since base doesnt do anything in this config i think
[20:35:50] <SWPadnos> yes. he was trying to point out a way of seeing the problem
[20:36:04] <SWPadnos> which is to have base and servo periods which are not integer-related :)
[20:36:25] <seb_kuzminsky> but i'm not seeing the problem
[20:36:44] <micges> base = 150000 and servo 1000000 and you will see
[20:36:52] <jepler> BASE_PERIOD=0 was a workaround I was suggesting because I thought (incorrectly) that micges had no useful work in his base thread
[20:38:30] <seb_kuzminsky> now i've set BASE_PERIOD to 150,000 and SERVO_PERIOD to 1,000,000, but i still dont see the problem
[20:38:39] <seb_kuzminsky> actual servo thread period is 1,050,000
[20:38:52] <seb_kuzminsky> (from halcmd show thread)
[20:39:03] <seb_kuzminsky> only thread is servo-thread
[20:39:28] <seb_kuzminsky> uh this is trunk, from the past day or so
[20:39:49] <seb_kuzminsky> brb coffee
[20:42:00] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/goal3.jpg
[20:42:17] <skunkworks_> right now - latency is 5534
[20:42:31] <jepler> I've verified that I see the problem with no other config file changes than the one I showed above
[20:42:32] <skunkworks_> running for 20 minutes or so...
[20:42:45] <jepler> I have some local changes to axis.tcl and axis.py, but that's it
[20:46:19] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: i just tried sim/axis_mm.ini with your one-line change, and i *still* dont see the problem here
[20:46:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm running in a VM, maybe that's relevant?
[20:47:08] <seb_kuzminsky> oh wait
[20:47:22] <seb_kuzminsky> axis' Vel: says 600, but halmeter Xvel says -9.5 here too
[20:47:36] <seb_kuzminsky> 9.52381
[20:47:44] <seb_kuzminsky> ok that's confusing
[20:48:43] <seb_kuzminsky> where does axis' "Vel:" come from? Not from XYZvel, that shows the same as Xvel
[20:48:51] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: the motion controller calculates it
[20:49:42] <seb_kuzminsky> so it's commanded rather than actual velocity?
[20:50:00] <micges> jepler: seting servo to integer multiply of base solve the problem
[20:50:31] <jepler> the motion controller thinks it's working at a rate of 1ms (and sets the stat buffer velocity according to that) but it's really running at 1.05ms
[20:50:53] <jepler> ddt doesn't have that "bug"; it finds the correct velocity based on the actual period not the requested period
[20:50:55] <micges> this is very dangerous (very hide) aspect of emc
[20:51:32] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: ah ok
[20:52:21] <seb_kuzminsky> is there a reason the motion controller can
[20:52:28] <seb_kuzminsky> can't sense the period?
[20:52:42] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: it looks like old emc1 code that was insufficiently modernized
[20:53:00] <seb_kuzminsky> gotcha, that makes sense
[20:53:11] <jepler> micges: most people wouldn't notice a 5% difference in speed from requested, but I accept without argument that in your case it is important.
[20:53:39] <micges> I have 417 with 500 commanded
[20:53:46] <micges> Its more than 5%
[20:54:19] <seb_kuzminsky> but you can easily get the diff down to the 5% range, right? by tweaking your thread periods?
[20:55:03] <micges> seb_kuzminsky: It can be fixed by correcting base/servo multiply
[20:55:22] <seb_kuzminsky> a reasonable workaround until the underlying problem gets fixed
[20:56:54] <micges> when you add to hal file thils line : loadrt threads name1=pid-thread period1=300000 you'll see more difference
[20:58:21] <micges> jepler, seb_kuzminsky, SWPadnos: thanks for show direction to bypass(workaround) problem, this was very importand bug I have
[20:58:47] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, all i did was get in the way ;-)
[20:58:58] <seb_kuzminsky> but i learned something too so thanks guys :-)
[21:00:30] <jepler> ah yes -- a 300us thread makes the next interval not below 1ms actually 1.2ms, giving 500/1.2=416.67 speed measured by ddt
[21:06:39] <skunkworks_> isn't that a feature by design? (I mean - it can be made to work without much of an issue doing the right multibles?)
[21:07:07] <jepler> skunkworks_: it should either give a sane configuration or error
[21:07:51] <skunkworks_> ah
[21:08:47] <skunkworks_> 5773 latency - those goal boards are pretty nice.
[21:09:29] <skunkworks_> I don't know the issue with this one.. I plugged a pci-e card in and now it seems to be running stable. (windows and ubuntu would just crash)
[21:11:26] <skunkworks_> chester88: are you ChrisM?
[21:11:40] <chester88> That depends....lol
[21:11:49] <chester88> Chris Morley
[21:11:53] <skunkworks_> heh - just puting a name with a name ;)
[21:12:02] <chester88> k
[21:12:14] <skunkworks_> I am samco on cnczone.
[21:12:31] <chester88> oh ok...lol we all have so many names!
[21:12:38] <jepler> I try to stick to just one name
[21:12:54] <chester88> less bullets to dodge..lol
[21:12:56] <skunkworks_> I put 2 and 2 togather when you mentioned you worked on classic ladder
[21:12:57] <jepler> though occasionally i'm forced to go as JeffEpler
[21:13:04] <chester88> I see
[21:14:06] <maddash> my name is reason
[21:14:10] <chester88> Hey Jeff I was just reading the irc of a few days ago I guess just after you gave your critique ...lol
[21:14:49] <jepler> chester88: I forget exactly what I said, but please don't remind me
[21:14:50] <chester88> I didn't mean to step on your toes with stepconf
[21:14:58] <chester88> :)
[21:15:00] <jepler> chester88: oh, I need to learn to be a little less sensitive
[21:16:18] <chester88> well i understand. when people change CL with out explaining . Sometimes ...lol But its all for the greater good.
[21:16:20] <micges> thanks, good night all
[21:16:34] <jepler> micges: ask me tomorrow, I may have a patch concerning this issue
[21:17:12] <micges> ok
[21:17:44] <chester88> Jeff I have questions pertaining to my patch... where to put a 'preset' ladder folder and what to call it?
[21:18:29] <jepler> micges: in case you look at the logs, http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/sane-periods.patch
[21:19:02] <jepler> chester88: the other items I copy come from configs/common
[21:19:12] <jepler> emc.nml for instance
[21:19:20] <jepler> so I think that's "where"
[21:19:32] <chester88> K
[21:19:40] <jepler> "what" is probably "a name without spaces that uses the standard extension of a classicladder file"
[21:20:21] <chester88> I'm talking about a folder that holds the three sample ladder programs.
[21:21:06] <jepler> common/ladder/empty.clp or common/empty.clp both seeme equally OK to me, but the former is better if you think someday there'll be 20 instead of 3.
[21:21:36] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, It would appear one of our US client servers have fallen off the edge of the discwo^H^H^H^H^H^Hinternet and all but vanished! We're looking into the issue now and hope to have it back soon. Affected users ~3K. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for flying freenode!
[21:23:06] <chester88> could be I guess. Ok looking in the future a bit what if we build the same idea with pyvcp. would a separate folder be the way to go or just one to hold all preselectable options?
[21:24:34] <jepler> if you're going to show a directory listing then having a subdirectory is probably the way to go
[21:24:44] <jepler> less clutter for the user to see
[21:24:49] <jepler> (though filtering on extension would help too)
[21:25:30] <jepler> but if it's 2 or 3 with radiobuttons like in your CL mockup, I don't see that a subdirectory is needed either
[21:27:46] <chester88> Well I'll start small first to see if it is workable.
[21:29:37] <jepler> MrSipan: I think people are using both sherlines (e.g., sherline 8440) and proxxon (e.g., "proxxon mf 70 cnc package") for 3-axis jewelry type work. However, I don't have direct experience with either machine.
[21:30:24] <MrSipan> jepler: I appreciate it. Thanks.
[21:31:01] <chester88> So the big question id my patch close enough to be committed to trunk or do you want it completely working. This is why i need advice about the directory, I can get CL to load from a directory but need one committed, if I commit the patch.
[21:31:44] <jepler> chester88: for TRUNK, stuff that's not fully working is still OK, though real soon now I'm going to declare that no more new features can go in until we release 2.3 and start on 2.4...
[21:32:05] <chester88> How soon?
[21:32:13] <jepler> chester88: as soon as I find the guts to do it
[21:32:17] <chester88> lol
[21:32:19] <skunkworks_> heh
[21:34:26] <chester88> ok i will commit it soon then :) before you make up your mind
[21:34:36] <jepler> chester88: good man, but that means you're committed to finishing it
[21:34:42] <chester88> yep
[21:35:00] <jepler> heck, if you're not careful you'll become the stepconf maintainer
[21:35:13] <chester88> lol
[21:35:34] <archivist> * archivist sends feature requests to chester88
[21:35:36] <chester88> you can manage me!
[21:35:41] <chester88> lol noooo
[21:36:00] <chester88> gotta go bbl
[21:40:15] <jepler> see yo uch
[21:40:17] <jepler> see you chester88
[22:55:41] <geo01005> I need some help with a particular issue. I would like to synconize a joints velocity with the curent velocity of the tool tip. I'm not sure what signals I should used to make this happen.
[23:03:43] <jepler> for xyz cartesian machines you can compute the tool tip velocity by taking the ddt of each axis and then taking sqrt(dx*dx + dy*dy + dz*dz). you can see this in several of the "sim" configurations, where a signal called XYZvel is computed
[23:05:12] <jepler> for a noncartesian machine or a machine with rotational axes you would have to do this yourself (i.e., in a custom HAL component). you can use the axis.0.joint-pos-cmd and so forth as inputs to your component
[23:05:52] <jepler> once you have the velocity number you can do various things with it, like feed it into a stepgen in velocity-control mode; or feed it into a PID command with an encoder.velocity-fb as the PID feedback value
[23:07:57] <geo01005> I sort of figured thats is how it might be done. So I'm running an all servo system, 7i43, where would I impliment the tool tip calculation? right in the hal file where the PID is setup?
[23:08:32] <jepler> yes, it'll go in a hal file
[23:09:26] <jepler> have a look at core_sim.hal (in /etc/emc2/sample-configs/sim) to see how Xvel, Yvel, and Zvel are calculated by ddts, and then XYvel and XYZvel by hypots
[23:10:14] <jepler> there are related "loadrt"s and "addf"s above
[23:10:25] <geo01005> Great, I'll have to try to make that happend in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for your help. (by the way I'm looking at the sim hal files and I think I understand now)
[23:10:45] <jepler> can you tell me a little bit more about what you're doing? I'm curious..
[23:15:25] <geo01005> You might be aware of the EMC RepStap group that is using EMC to do rapid prototyping. I'm working on a extruder design that uses a servo motor and extrudes hot plastic at the rate the tool tip is moving.
[23:15:39] <seb_kuzminsky> geo01005: cool!
[23:15:46] <seb_kuzminsky> or, i guess: hot!
[23:15:53] <chester88> Hey I didn't know that-Thought that would be cool!
[23:16:40] <jepler> geo01005: ah, that makes sense.
[23:16:48] <cradek> there is a motion.current-vel output pin. it will give a better velocity output than a bunch of ddt blocks.
[23:17:07] <jepler> cradek: oh hey, thanks for being mr. obvious
[23:17:21] <cradek> you're welcome, caller
[23:17:50] <jepler> geo01005: you should listen to cradek, not to me.
[23:18:40] <geo01005> I don't think I have a motion.current-vel output pin, is there?
[23:19:06] <chester88> Jeff : Question about trunk stepconf. when I run it and display parallel port screen, it prints a lot of text about pins to the terminal and doesn't have defaults for output pins. Is this right for trunk or did I screw something up?
[23:19:32] <jepler> chester88: yeah, I think I left some debugging stuff in there. if you can locate it, feel free to rip it out..
[23:19:55] <chester88> ok Thanks. I will look
[23:20:06] <jepler> oh, looks like in 2.2 it's a parameter not a pin, so you can't hook it to a signal
[23:20:12] <cradek> dang
[23:21:02] <cradek> in trunk it's a pin.
[23:22:34] <seb_kuzminsky> geo01005: you reprap folks like to live on the edge anyway, so just go to Trunk ;-)
[23:23:57] <chester88> geo1005 do you have a website about the work with EMC and Restap?
[23:24:30] <seb_kuzminsky> reprap.org
[23:24:38] <geo01005> There is not a specific site, if you go to www.reprap.org you will find information about the repstrap project
[23:25:12] <geo01005> It's ok, I'm already running Trunk for the 7i43 card to work right
[23:25:28] <seb_kuzminsky> the 7i43 should work fine in 2.2.8, no?
[23:26:30] <geo01005> I couldn't get the bit file to load to the FPGA correctly without changing to the Trunk.
[23:26:31] <chester88> geo1005 yes been there. No mention of EMC use that I saw. How will you create G code for objects?
[23:27:13] <seb_kuzminsky> geo01005: that's very odd... it didnt work in 2.2.8, but it did work in trunk?
[23:27:27] <seb_kuzminsky> the 7i43 driver in those two is nearly identical
[23:27:49] <geo01005> http://dev.www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/EmcRepStrap
[23:28:23] <geo01005> There is a work in progress called Skeinforge that creates the g-code.
[23:29:59] <geo01005> I'm not sure what the problem was in 2.2.8. I had to load the FPGA config onto the epprom from my windows box. When I changed to the trunk version it just started working right...
[23:30:14] <geo01005> Well Got to run.. Thanks for the help
[23:30:18] <jepler> see you geo01005