KimK_afk is now known as KimK
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(05:05:34 PM) KimK_afk is now known as KimK
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(05:22:23 PM) dmess: hi all
"2000 lb. weight capacity" isn't nearly enough, is it?
[02:28:38] <JymmmEMC> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33611
the lathe supposedly weights about 2000 lbs
but I don't know how accurate that number is
that crane is another of those things that is great to have once every 2 years, and you are tripping over the rest of the time
two of these... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=543
"For dead loads only; not for lifting"
also, lowering is very tricky
[02:31:24] <jmkasunich> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=996
I suggested that use multiple rod bars
if you are gonna lift, do it right ^^^^
Not lift, just pull
then why two?
the 2nd one is to prevent it from sliding off uncontrolled when it hits the slope of the ramps, to ease it down gently
oh, I see
I'd prybar it onto rollers, then just roll it to the ramp
one come-along, to keep it from going to fast
for $600, I'd get a towtruck with a hoist or something
$600? you mean the gantry?
I was mostly joking about that
I was thinking even gas pipe or fence pipe
jmkasunichWell, if that's whats needed to move manually
I have pieces of 1/2" steel bar I've used before
Yeah, any diameter will do. That's how we used to move safes/vaults
and it looks like he has a couple spots to wedge in a prybar
I have a 4 part block-n-tackle with rope (sailboat gear) which would be enough to control that on a modest ramp, it has an integral cleat, so you can stop any time you want - and far easier to use than a come-along
I bet, just come-alonf are so versitile and cheap enough
we used prybars (mostly my prybar, his was wimpy) to raise it off the pallet, then to lower it down to the trailer deck - not hard, just a bit slow
since he's solo out there, it's the only thing I could think of that was simple and effective enough and one-man operation without costing too much either
for $600 maybe jmkasunich can fly out and help again
he's Just That Nice
where did $600 come from?
the cost of the crane
as I said before, I was joking
maybe I was too
I know you were
I would like to have a crane, but not $600 worth
I want the beam, and two lally columns
bolt the beam to the garage ceiling, and install the lally columns only when needed
I already have a 1 ton chain hoist....
I bought a bigger prybar ;)
hopefully not from harbor freight
what's funny is that they had the "Fat Max" 36" prybar also, but the lever point is in a worse spot than the "normal" one
the $12 one has about a 1.5-2" distance to the bend, the $18 Fat Max has about 4" or more
that means you need a fat Max to stand on it to lift anything
I have a friend with one of these (more or less): http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35915
I thought about making something to extend the height a bit, but then there's the problem of lowering to the ground
and the fact that the legs are too close together
I wouldn't use that
no. it hardly worked for the BP, and that has a much smaller base
any form of overhead lifting depends totally on the presence of solid, well placed lift points
and I'm afraid that machine doesn't really have any
yeah, that's problem #2
sling under the bed would be solid, but I bet the CG is too close to the headstock
anything attached lower down (like slings going under the base) would be very tippy
right. needs to be above the CG
if you get a warm day, you should pry up one end and thru a length of 1/2 rod underneath
move it around and find the lengthwise position of the CG
supposed to be up around 35 or so tomorow :)
maybe even 40
if the CG is under the open space between carriage and headstock, you could probably pull off a lift
the top is mostly air, and I bet the motor is about as heavy as the headstock itself
main sling goes down from hook, under bed from front to back, around back of headstock, under bed from front to back again, and back up to hook
that ensures that the sling can't slide toward the tailstock
that sling MUST be on the headstock side of the CG
then a secondary sling from hook to tailstock end is used to balance the load
adjust length of secondary sling to position hook above CG
I think we lifted the other lathe by hooking that shorter chain to nylon slings on either side, and we adjusted for the CG by shifting which link the lift chain was attached to
poor mans adjustable lift harness
"slings on either side" - I can't visualise that
there is very little on that lathe to hook to
just the bed itself really
this lathe had holes cleverly placed so you could stick a steel rod through
one on each end :)
that helps a lot
yeah, it would
anyway, knowing how to sling it to a hook only helps if you have a hook that can lift the required weight to the required height
I got seriously spoiled at our old workplace lab - we had a 20 ton overhead crane
so I learned how to sling stuff
6000 lb dynamometer and 10000 lb transformer were my biggest lifts
I'd love that, but the 8' ceiling in the garage doesn't really lend itself to that
we brought in riggers to move the 28000 lb chiller
the trailer-to-ground lift could (should) take place outside, then roll it in
this would work well: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360087253848
yes, it must take place outside, given my garage door height :)
once it is on the ground maybe
pallet jack is really no help getting it off the trailer
besides, you could have gotten a much better price last week
only if I had 3 ramps, so all the wheels could be supported
yeah, that's true
and it's probably not worth another drive out there
(though I could borrow a smaller trailer, without a lathe on it, for the trip ;) )
pallet jack on ramps? I sincerely hope you are joking
with a come-along for control
I sincerely hope you are joking
I've used a pallet jack a lot - they are not very good for lateral stability
no, that's true
I like that one because it has 6' long forks
so it can get under the whole thing
even on the flat, I would almost rather move that lathe with rollers and prybars than a pallet jack
and especially not with a pallet jack running the long way
the lathe wants to tip around its long axis
a pallet jack wants to tip around its long axis
hint - don't align the axes
if the lathe is crossways on the jack, at least if it start to tip the jack, one end of the lathe will hit the ground before it goes over
I thought about building a wooden platform that tilts on one side. keep it supported on the outside end with the bottle jacks or my car jack
then use the jacks to lower that end relatively slowly
I only see three safe ways
1) overhead lift with tow-truck or something, pull out trailer, lower, roller into place
2) roller down ramps, with or without 4x6 skids bolted to bottom, controlling with comealong or similar, rear of trailer solidly blocked
3) roller from trailer onto level cribbing, remove cribbing a bit at a time (possibly sped up by using a rented pair of those roll-r-lift things I linked to this morning)
1 is quickest and easiest, if you have access to a suitable magic hook
that would take a big forklift, since you only have end access
most forklifts are rated with the CG no more than 24" in front of the mast
yeah, I'd probably have to Wgyptioan it onto a pallet
yeah, there is that part too
you'd definitely have to egyptian it onto something
I can come-along off the trailer, since I can hook to a lally column in the garage
well, toward the end of the trailer anyway
pulling off isn't the problem, it is controlling the rate of off
if you put it on rollers, you won't need much to move it
pulling it toward the end so a forklift can get under it is what I was thinking of
I'd just lift one end 1/2", thro a rod under, then pry the other end
I need to see what it costs to rent one. there's a rental place about 2 miles from my house
you'd have it moved in the time it takes to set up the come-along
I think I checked into it before, and it was going to cost several hundred $$ to rent one for a half day (with delivery and all that crap)
yeah - the forklift trailer is gonna be heavier than the lathe trailer
[03:16:13] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/brownsharp/scan0219.jpg
and you'd wind up having to do the lift with the lathe trailer in the street probably
yep, the roller method works well, but I'd want to be damned sure the thing will stop when I want it to
we have driveway room, but the slope could be an issue
anybody have an opinion on vmware server 1.x vs 2.x? are they both similarly free (as in beer)?
[03:16:45] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/brownsharp/scan0220.jpg
skunkworks_: da beast!
jepler: dunno, I'm just using whichever one I downloaded a couple years ago
jmkasunich: that's probably 1.x, then
same as I've been using
SWPadnos: be glad you aren't moving skunkworks mill
oh I am, I am
that was moved with 1 inch water pipe :)
SWPadnos: do you have room in the driveway for a forklift and forks to fit between the tail of the trailer and the garage door?
it's about 75 feet long
oh - scale is decieving in pics sometimes
but there is the slope
yeah, I didn't want to step outsidewhen I took the photo, it was 0 degrees out
otoh, jeep plus trailer is at least 30, maybe 35 feet long, so darn near half is gone already
yep, but I can block the road for a little while. it's a dead end street with 10 houses, only 6 of which are beyond mine
so 4 is viable, except for cost of rental
still complex, since you gotta get the forks under the machine, and then back out again
probably egyptian work at both ends of the lift
and there's a place down the street that may have a forklift they'd bring over for beer money
or just beer
if its close enough that they can just drive the forklift on its own wheels, that is MUCH better
trailering the lift just makes things more complex
yep, less than a mile
plus, if they bring it over, you have a skilled driver instead of a newbie
and the guy across the street works for a construction company ...
well, maybe - dunno what that place is like
lots of options, I just need to see what will work
you should check your local rental place(s) for those rol-lift things
I think I missed those
[03:24:43] <jmkasunich> http://www.rolalift.com/features.shtml
Just a sugestion but I have moves a lathe 7000# with fork lift by picking up the head stock end on the forks with the bed strait out in front of the fork lift then chained the tail stock end up to the top of the mast and then tiped the forks back to lift the machine
note the pic of them moving a press
in a crate
jackland, ok, food for thought
this one has stuff I'd have to remove to do that though
there's a chip guard around the entire top
"in a crate" ?
the photo on that page shows a crate around the item being moved
or a frame anyway
I think that is part if the press
anyway, the problem with those on the lathe will be the electrical boxes
can you send a picture?
of the lathe?
[03:27:09] <SWPadnos> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/images/products/21-211-041.jpg
[03:27:38] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/swp-lathe-2765.jpg
skid and back up realy fast!
maybe someone in the air guard will bring a cargo copter over
I've just plugged in for the first time (jusut for fooling around a bit) a 5i22 with a
Oops, darn oversize return key
I've just plugged in for the first time (just for fooling around a bit) a 5i22 with a 7i33 and a 7i37. Any suggestions or advice? I'd like to learn how to play with the DC I/O and the ladder via the 7i37.
Otherwise, I'll just read the fine manual
mesa makes a neat card with LEDs on all the lines. you can plug it between a 5i2x and one of the daughter cards
well, if you have something that can show you the voltage outputs, or if you have a 7i31 card (the one with all the LEDs on it), then you can see some stuff as you experiment
otherwise, it's a bit less exciting when you do stuff and you can't tell
hook up an encoder and set it up as a jog wheel?
that would be a fun hands-on first project
you could hook the encoder to 7i33 or 7i37 if using hm2
Thanks, I'll look into the LED display card, I didn't know about that. (They keep it "in the back room"? I didn't see it on the web page). I can live with not having outputs, or maybe I'll throw 8 LED's on the 7i37?
sure, good idea
I was wondering about whether you could use straight DC I/O for "encoder" (twist knob, not MPG where tick marks might matter)
with hm2 you can put a hardware encoder counter on some of the general purpose inputs
or you could use the software encoder counter, but it could not count nearly as fast.
KimK: reading a dc voltage is not currently supported out of the box as far as i know
you'd need an ADC plugged into GPIO
oh maybe I didn't understand
seb_kuzminsky: Sorry, I didn't explain myself correctly. I meant DC I/O as in general purpose PLC-type I/O. Sorry for the "slang".
huh. the 7i65 looks interesting
KimK: so you want to read two TTL signals in quadrature?
that's supported ;-)
KimK, you can't read those I/Os faster than about 10 kHz (maybe 20), but other than that they're usable for anything
(that generic I/O can be used for)
huh. a 7i29 looks about perfect for a lathe
seb_kuzminsky: Yes, quadrature, but I was afraid that I'd have to use one of the 7i33 servo encoder inputs for a general purpose knob, i.e. feedrate.
the hostmot2 driver/firmware let you select different numbers of PWMs and encoder inputs
so you can have a few extra encoder inputs for spindle/MPG/...
SWPadnos: 10KHz should be fine, as I don't care if I miss a tick mark on a "knob", just on the MPG
you should see how long the read function takes on your system
some PCI chipsets are really stupid, so the generic I/O may take more time than you think it should
SWPadnos: Read? So far I only know about the latency test, etc.
though 10 kHz should be very conservative for a PCI card, come to think of it
you can see how long any thread or function takes by looking at the *.time and *.tmax parameters
halcmd show "*.tmax"
halcmd show "*.time"
halcmd show param "*.time"
... or tmax
that's the number of clock cycles each function takes
OK, I'll be sure to look into that. In the Integrator's Manual? Oh, wait, isn't the Hal Manual separate now?
SWPadnos: Oh hey, it looks liek the lathe is on 2x4's, shoul make it easier to put rods under it
the 2x4 and 2x6 are nailed in around it
to keep the bottom from shifting during travel
oh, well any pry bar points at least?
not really, but it's not totally flush on the bottom either
we managed to move it around a bit with prybars
but it may be more because the wood decking was wet ;)
SWPadnos: We use to use diesel fuel on the 5 ton tow turcks to make it easier to slide cars up
really slick stuff
oh, how nice
I think I'll pass on that
I'm serious, not like it's flamable
I found Bob's card, so I can call and see what he'll charge to bring out the boom tow truck :)
or enviromentally friendly...
SWPadnos: I still think two pull-alongs
I think we paid him $100 to move my BP and my friend's lathe, 25 miles apart, at midnight on a Sunday. so it may be reasomably cheap to get him here :)
you still have to get it in the garage
relatively speaking anyway
I'd have him put it on a couple of 2x6 planks that go into the garage
then roll it on pipes
well, the come-alongs will still help turn it into place =)
or rope and tackle if ya got it
I've got a 2-ton, and so does a friend
and he's got a 2-tom engine hoist (if I can find a place to grab the lathe)
is the lathe even suppose to work?
I'm not sure :)
just curious =)
wha cha gonna do with it?
well, I think I'll try to see if it works ;)
I may need to make some camera mounts, and camera bodies on the mill
err - camera lens mounts
what does camera have to do with a lathe?
lens mounts have to do with a lathe
C mounts are 1-32 thread, and round
you said mill
bodies on the mill
lens mounts on the lathe
HF $300 would have saved you a trip =)
bedtime now though. see you
For the record, EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf, Chapter 6.6.2 Monitor Resolution, has a link to an obsolete Ubuntu page
Goodnight SWP, thanks for the help. Thanks to you too, cradek, seb_kuzminsky. I'll be here awhile yet.
KimK is now known as KimK_brb
KimK_brb is now known as KimK
is it possible to shift a voltage sine curve positively so that the minimum of the curve is zero and the max is 2*amplitude?
crotchet1 is now known as crotchet
maddash: hell yeah. check out http://www.trekinc.com/pdf/6001_Voltage_Level_Shifting.pdf
happy holidays, SWPadnos, cradek, jepler, jmkasunich
^-- JymmmEMC, fenn, logger_emc
maddash: Same to you =)
so instead of crossing at 0v have it cross at 2v and the low side be 0v
instead of +2 and -2 P2P have it be +4 and 0v P2P
sounds reasonable to me =)
MY gf got me a pair of fur lined cowhide work gloves, but I can't type with them =(
But if I ever get stuck in the snow, they'll be awesome to dig myself out =)
cut off the finger tips
they're too nice for that
I'm wearing the fingerless garden gloves right now (in the garage atm)
and the ironic thing is I nought her USB heated gloves for xmas too =)
are you trying to keep her tethered on a leash?
lol, nah they unplug easily
brb, rebooting to 184.108.40.206
ok, I'm trying to understand what the diode is doing exactly....I know it's only effecting half the waveform, but I'm not sure how/what it's actually doing.
The diode in which figure?
the pdf above
Figure 1 ?
Negative voltages are shorted to ground, positive voltages are allowed to accumulate
looks like it's shunting from 0v to negative swing
ok, then what does C1 do in this case? cause a delay?
C1 isolates the zero-impedance-output voltage generator so you can develop a "float"
how is it 'isolating'?
OK, AC coupling. Like on a scope.
Not really isolating, sorry
Hmm, is C2 the load, or part of the circuit?
Ok, if I attached a scope at the point where D1 and C1 meet and removed C2 from the circuit, wouldn't I have a half wave?
Well... with AC input/output C2 is odd, but I guess you could call it a float/bias voltage smoother?
I guess I shouldn't have been out smoke pot during AC theory huh =)
Yes, I guess you would have a half-wave, D1 would short the negative side, and no float? So half-wave, I'd say. So C2 accumulates charge so the float level can come up?
sorta sounds that way
What do you plan to do with the circuit?
OH I get it.... C! "boosts" the voltage level up, and C2 has the actual voltage level
so C1 pushes the bottom peak from -V to 0V
So I guess in theory, if you have another C1 & D1m you could boost it up another 2v, so it'll be +4 to +2 PP
or is that +6 and +2 PP
not me, maddash is doing all this
Yes, like the voltage doublers in figs 7 & 8. Triplers, quadruplers, etc. possible too.
[06:40:49] <skunkworks_> http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=543223&postcount=16
This kid is a little scary imho
I'm not quite sure what he's got going on there. What do you think his problem is?
He needs to give a schematic of how everying is connected..
Hi kimk - I don't think we have met. I am sam.
officially anyways. I see you on here every now and again
I try to hang around here and learn when I can. I went to the 2008 CNC workshop, my first time.
I heard the 2009 workshop dropped off the webpage, hope everything is OK?
oh - that isn't good
I am sure we will find out soon enough
have you been to the fest?
sorry - getting late here and my reading abillity is starting to get worse
I was there also. (usually bugging the emc guys)
No problem. What country/city? I'm from Omaha, Nebraska, USA
oh - close to cradek and jepler
I am in trempealeau WI
How long have you been going to the CNC workshops?
umm - the last 3 of the 4 I think
the workshop site is up - I don't know if he had 2009 info before or not.
[06:58:44] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnc-workshop.com/
kimk: what is your project for emc?
I heard that 2009 was on the wiki page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/
but now just 2008. I didn't see 2009 there myself.
I have done some retrofitting (non-EMC2) in the past and currently am helping a friend with a pair of Kasuga mills (Bandit controls, now dead) and hope to tackle a pair of Cincinnati-Milacron lathes with old paper-tape controls if possible, we'll see.
So I'm very interested in EMC2 in the somewhat larger retrofit mode (professional?) No tabletops, no steppers, no parallel port, lots of I/O for complex tool changers.
yes - emc is great for that too. (I really love emc)
did you take any of rayh's classes?
at the fest
I have a minimum set of the Mesa cards and am just trying them out for the first time tonight. Nothing to report yet, LOL.
heh - I have some mesa hardware I have not gotten around to play with.
Yes, Ray was great, I took several of his classes (most? all?)
well - Then I am sure I saw you.. Atleast setting at the tables :)
Yes, we probably saw each other. Pictures? I tried to go look at the "big video", but: Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 94371840 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 66543557 bytes) in /home/.jared/cncman/www.linuxcnc.org/components/com_cfview/cfview.php on line 106
Sorry if I'm breaking things
you should be more careful ;)
Yes, there he goes, stumbling over the exhibits, tripping on cords, etc.
What can I tell you?
[07:18:35] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop07/DSC_3749.JPG
I am far left
then going around next behind me - SWPadnos, jmkasunich, jepler, and the back of cradeks head.
erm, in that pdf I posted, wtf is the diode doing there?
OK, nice to meet you
I don't have a handy CNC workshop pic though
maddash: not at all. What do you plan to do with that circuit, though?
KimK: integrate a sinusoidal signal with my crappy nipolar differential ADC
skunkworks_: hang on
[07:22:41] <KimK> http://www.trekinc.com/pdf/6001_Voltage_Level_Shifting.pdf
05:39:44 <maddash> maddash: hell yeah. check out http://www.trekinc.com/pdf/6001_Voltage_Level_Shifting.pdf
I'm logging. I don't understand 'hi', maddash. Try /msg logger_emc help
hm, doesn't work
JymmmEMC: diode controls direction of translation
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-24.txt
I was just too lazy to look back ;)
Hey, it's working again
no more '!' parsing?
stupid unipolar adc
most of the emc crew
[07:27:25] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/cncworkshopemc.jpg
whoa; you're all so old
(I am not in the picture...) so thanks ;)
still want the caps
cool, fenn is inorganic: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fenn1.JPG
holy crap, it's 0233
KimK: arizona? you're in AZ?
I am? Surprise to me. Maybe I'd better whois myself? I'm in Omaha.
KimK: isn't your ip (220.127.116.11)?
This thing seems to think so. I haven't looked, actually.
[08:19:52] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/bottom.JPG
[08:20:36] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/top.JPG
cradek: I think there is an issue with the gcode.ulp... The outside cut on the (looking from the top of the board) is in too far on the left and bottom.. It cut thru traces.. So close... :)
Sorry - I mean right and bottom
KimK is now known as KimK_afk
KimK_afk is now known as KimK
The obsolete ubuntu URL mentioned earlier also occurs in the EMC2_Integrator_Manual.pdf , Chapter 31.6.2, Monitor Resolution, p.217 (235 of 247)
KimK is now known as KimK_afk
cradek: no - it almost seems like it isn't offsetting the outside path. (I assume the roughing and dimension tool are the same.. .062"?)
(whatever you set for the roughing tool diameter in the gcode.ulp
now - sleep time.
archivist: do you have any digitized book on making gears?
no, never scanned any YET :)
intending to scan some
any particular info?
yeah, looking for the tooth spacing of a hob
not for any special gear size..
or well as small as possible
a straight hob(that is)
one dir is gear pitch :)
other dir is a dont care
haha I dont care about neither(any will work for me)
most gear cutters here have 12/14 teeth and pitch is whatever the module/ DP is, angle depends on diameter
archivist: I'm thinking that the biggest gear I want to make is 1"
[10:17:10] <anonimasu> http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/NAVY-repairmans-manual-Chapter14.pdf
have a look and tell me what you think :)
I think it looks like it'll help me understand more :)
lacking in the right pictures
are you just looking for one module size to make a bunch of gears
they need to fit with eachother
not with anything existing
ok the range of sizes
eg .4 mod =60teeth at 1" dia approx .6mod=40teeth .8 around 30
cradek_ is now known as cradek
I'm still amazed at this thing... http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_5axis.htm
get building one
give me your cc#
you have your own and local scrap yards
scrap yards, yeah right.
JymmmEMC I can't hel pbut say that that thing is mighty cute
fragalot: I'm not looking at working metal
JymmmEMC: I wish i had the money to make that thing
even if it didn't have 5 axis, it's still pretty sweet :p
estheticallly it looks nice, I did notice stepper motors
I can live with that, tbf
he even added a 6th axis to it
yes, yes he did =)
* fragalot wants money to make or buy one
beeing a student sucks
rent/sell your body
I am doing that, but it's not bringing that much in
main factor is that I don't have much spare time left
I read that as "hobby"
fragalot: your not trying hard enough... you need to find richer older women =)
Hmm, looks like i've just broken something. If I try running any of the sample emc configs, I now just get an error report.
It looks like the rtapi kernel module isn't loading.
I've uploaded a debug report here http://www.sheetcam.com/report.txt
2 is a missing file/dir error from the OS
i just thought of the (most likely) dirtiest, yet cheapest way of making sliders
just screw the slides they use for shelves on, lol...
LesNewell: seems about right
should be far more accurate than anything i could make with normal bearings & profiles
LesNewell: but the dmesg that's included there is strangely short
there should be some notice of starting HAL/RT system
fragalot: it's been tried many many times
do you have enough diskpace?
JymmmEMC: does it work?
LesNewell: try typing dmesg in a terminal, there should be more info there
fragalot: sure, if you consider a straight line that looks like this /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ =)
alex_joni, yup, loads of space.
LesNewell: unfortunately I need to run to start the christmas tour around here, lots of relatives to visit ;)
Have fun :-)
LesNewell: for some reason that dmesg stops at 58.749021
JymmmEMC: it's for simple decorative engraving in SOFT materials,... and the spindle is a dremel, so my standard isn't at an industrial level, my question was.. does it WORK :p
that is during booting..
yeah, thanks.. all the best to all of you ;)
alex_joni: Vampires have Christmas Tours?
LesNewell: try sudo /etc/init.d/realtime start
and see what is there, someone else will surely pick it up from here..
Tried sudo /etc/init.d/realtime start. Got no error messages.
dmesg report is here http://www.sheetcam.com/dmesg.txt
lsmod results are here http://www.sheetcam.com/lsmod.txt
what have you changed since emc last worked?
hm, seems like there should be a lot more to the dmesg
Yuri's cam software must be nuts if the first move in the program is a G3
that's unlikely to ever actually work, since it depends on the initial position
I don't remember changing anything recently.
is he hand jogging to some start pos the going from there
LesNewell: if you run dmesg in a terminal what is the last line you see?
[ 58.749021] eth0: no IPv6 routers present
Im not used to viewing dmesg but am used to seeing "error 2" from stuff moved by people
what version of emc are you trying to run? is it compiled or an installed package?
Originally installed from 8.04 Live CD, updated then built from source
which are you trying to run?
Did a make install.
I have made some changes to RS274NGC but thst shouldn't affect the rtapi stuff should it?
if you had an installed emc package too, you nuked it
the best way to run a cvs checkout is with --enable-run-in-place
apt-get remove --purge emc2; apt-get install emc2
then, reconfigure your cvs tree as --enable-run-in-place and rebuild it
I did use run-in-place before but I had problems with Axis not usingg the correct rs274 library.
ok, we can work on that problem next if you still have it
uninstall - reinstall fixed it. Thanks
I tried that before but didn't use --purge
Oddly enough make install worked before. Oh, well reconfiguring now...
All seems to be working correctly now. I can go back to testing G7/G8. Thanks
I'd like to test this on my lathe. What would be be easiest way to transfer the relevant files across?
O suppose I could copy the whole emc2-trunk folder onto that machine.
that is probably easiest, or if you're brave you could try building a package and installing it
it would 'upgrade' (overwrite) your installed version of course
Is that easy? I'm not that familiar with building packages
it's not hard, but I don't know the state of trunk regarding packages. usually when we make a release branch it takes some time to get it all fixed up and ready.
simplest and least likely to mess up your currently-working lathe would be to copy your trunk checkout
or, use cvs diff to make a patch of your changes, get a cvs checkout on the lathe, and apply your patch
That might be a good idea. I need to make a patch at some point anyway.
cradek: .debs on trunk build fine nowdays, the buildbot checks it every time: http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/buildbot/waterfall
one of these days i'll switch it to build under pbuilder, to verify the Build-Depends, but i gotten around to that in the build farm yet
it's still up to us to try installing and running it, right?
cradek: yes :-/
can you automate the writing of code too? that's what I really want.
cradek, thats called .net /me ducks
Morning and Happy Christmas Eve everybody
hi, same to you
(even those for whom it is neither morning nor xmas eve)
merry Christmas John
got all my shopping done yesterday - a day earlier than normal ;-)
* archivist was out at Asda Walmart at 1 am getting some grub for the closed period
Just tried to build the latest cvs head: make: *** No rule to make target `../configs/Sherline3Axis/emc.nml', needed by `configs'. Stop
you didn't use the right flags when doing "cvs up"
did you use cvs update -dP
you should always use -dP
[16:18:04] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CVS#cvsrc
dammit, I knew it would be a stupid slip on my part...
^^^ how to not need to remember that every time
yep that's what I do
(that should be cvs's default, but it's not)
convert to svn
svn is crap
why is most of the world changing to it then
cradek: what constitutes a dimensioning mill in the gcode.ulp? (if you know off hand).
I think that is what it calls the one that cuts the board outline
if you set the board outline's thickness to match the mill, you can see where it will cut
one of the layers is called "dimension"
Merry Christmas all
There we go... ssl cert good for another 2 years =)
SWPadnos or jepler: around?
I have a question about those short wide servo motors from the CNC workshop
do either of you know how much torque they can make?
[19:35:25] <dmess> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szd7r_Gib4c&NR=1
check this one out
[19:39:58] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBap_0FYYQs
so I got trunk going this morning and I found the 'large coordinate font' in axis -thank you
how can I make the font even larger? thanks
DanielFalck: set screen resolution to 640x480
really really big....
DanielFalck: set screen resolution to 320x200
maybe bigger glasses
I have bifocals now...
120" Screen 3ft from your face!
cradek: I can hard code it here if you can point it out to me
No glasses needed
I'm rooting around in axis.py now
AXIS still works well on an 800x600 screen - JymmmEMC was joking but that will make all the other controls bigger too
coordinate_font = "-*-lucidatypewriter-medium-r-*-*-20-*-*-*-*-*-*-1"
^^ this is an "XLFD" for the larger sized font
ok, jepler, thanks found it
you can try increasing the 20 but it will look like ass
(they are bitmap fonts)
yes, I can make it larger that way
40 does look bad
on my system anyway
right, but it's definitely a lot bigger- that's what I wanted to try out
On my LCD axis is on the small side, probably needs some ini file settings for people to play with
if you don't mind the dot in the middle of the zero, this doesn't look jaggy on my monitor: coordinate_font = "-*-dejavu sans mono-medium-r-*-*-40-*-*-*-*-*-*-1"
there's also vera sans nono, but it has the same terrible zero dot
(if you can't tell 0 from 8, the font sucks no matter what size it is)
coordinate_font = "-*-courier 10 pitch-medium-r-*-*-40-*-*-*-*-*-*-1"
another font that scales OK
dejavu isn't too bad here
that one is good too
this reminds me of a conversation that went something like this: <cradek> I added an option for a large coordinate font! now people will quit bothering us about it! <jepler> uh, so you think one of the TWO font options will make everyone happy? <cradek> SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!
I wouldn't have bothered you about it, if I had been swifter at finding that in axis :)
whole thing needs scaling for touch screen here
I won't put it in the wiki, I promise...
archivist: you can do that somewhat by setting your DPI larger
cradek: that won't scale the toolbar buttons, at least; there may be other things that don't scale that I'm not aware of offhand
I'd be happy to consider a larger icons patch (selectable size or keyed off dpi) if somebody submitted it
probably what we really need is a different gui that works well with touch screens. (but personally I think touch screens are just no good for cnc control)
havnt got the touch screen running yet so Im not doing anything about it yet
I thought I wanted a touch screen, but after 10 minutes of the cursor moving randomly around the screen, I came to my senses
I have used one on a scope at home and done well its ok
I bet the old CRT based ones were OK. like I see used as POS terminals.
the oily-hands problem seems like it would be terrible on a machine
yup I do have a hate for finger marks on a screen
it's especially nice around welding machines
I changed a couple pendants we have for robots (using touch screens)
if you carry it around the welding and get some spatter on it, it stays pressed
so if you try to touch some place else, the cursor will jump between the 2 locations
that's what mine did
it was a piece of crap, so it didn't even need the welder to work badly
but it's a nice little screen
9" or so, 800x600
the problem was that it had a protective foil on top
pretty much same size here
it will eventually be on the mill's head panel
and when a spatter hit it, it melted, which caused the spatter to stay there
cradek: it depends alot on what kind of touch screen you are using too
yes I'm sure some work better than mine
there's reflective type and resistive type(from the top of my head)
don't see how you could fix the grease problem though
I dont want to spoil mine its 17"
and pallet changers ;)
capacitive type as well
and old LED type across the front
resistive seems to be a favourite for rugged applications
capacitive is the stuff they use for the iphone right?
I think so
[20:09:46] <anonimasu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen
dammit - I need surveilence cameras in my basement
that way when I forget where I put something I can just play back the tape
I just spent a day finding a customers pendulum
now I cant find anything because it all got moved to find the pendulum
i need a clacker for a clock can you set me up??
the thing that bonks the bell
that where we get our spares from
Here is a patch lathe diameter mode.
I've uploaded it to www.sheetcam.com/emc/lathe_x.zip
It seems to work for me but YMMV :-)
did you renumber all the errors over 39?
just curious - why not add it at the end?
arch... i dont have a clue what it looked like or how it fits in the clock
Just to keep all the bug msgs together.
ok I see
dmess take pics after xmas and post somewhere
ok.. its a GOOD TIME wall mouted 31 day wind up pendalum clock
dmess we often make an over sized part and file till it works
did you figure out how to make G7 G1 X1 apply to this line, instead of starting at the next one?
im not thinkig its an airloom or anything just sentimenta
dmess ew a Korean ....
i have no clue.. it was a gift from a dear friend
ok I see it in convert_lathe_diameter_mode
dmess some are riveted together
does G7 G10 L1 P1 X1 still write 0.5 to the tool table?
dmess if its what I think it is we dont touch them here
hmm i havent looked too deep it still works fine but just ticks instead of BONGING which i hear the clicks.. ok
I have to admit I didn't test it though.
bend hammer till it works
what do you think about g76 i,j,k being in diameters
i'll have to look if the hammer is still there first
I'm not sure. No matter how you do it, diameter is always a fudge.
need diameter programming for a lathe for SURE
IJK are always incremental so no scale
My Fanuc 20T only uses dia for X.
dmess: we're talking about g76 specifically
LesNewell: but it doesn't have a threading cycle that uses letters other than X for diameter/radius so I think that's not relevant
g76 roughing canned cycle??
True. I'm not that familiar with emc's G76. Reading up on it now...
threading should still be dia.
It would seem sensible that I - thread peak is dia.
Not sure about j and K tho.
nor i... and ive got a lathe and parts
I think all three should be diameter but it's kind of fuzzy
i have worked on machines that make you double the I but then it screws up the incremental linear moves too
make em all dia... and we'll try it
LesNewell: even more fuzzy to me is what should happen with I for absolute center arcs
i dont care as long as know what i got.. i can work with it
'tis the Season
I for arcs is a tricky one. either way will mess with your head...
I think it's standard for incremental I center to be in radius so that's set. but for absolute I center in diameter ...?
maybe we could make jmkasunich decide. he's the one who was foolish enough to add absolute arc centers :-)
I think only X should use diameters
otherwise you need a long list to figure out when various letters are radius or diameter
even in g76?
incremenal i j k are the ONLY way to EXPLICITLY define the center
dmess: that's incorrect
otherwise you will have R issues
I don't follow
with the wrong / long side of the arc being an option
It doesn't matter if i,j,k are inc or abs.
has nothing to do with R
no it just poses simmilar issues
i'm talking programing a G02 X---y---R---
as opposed to G02 x--y--i--k--
I see, I agree R is less explicit than IJK form, but that's not what we were talking about
the 2nd is IMPLICET
Yes. but we were discussing the differences between inc and abs i,j,k
and IJK should remain incremental like the rest of the plant PLEASE
the planet has both styles of IJK, and in EMC you can now choose which you want
the default is still relative, like most or all current controls
ok but i want mine MY way please
feel free to make a patch
im way under that level
no need, since it supports both ways already
this is moot
as i understood
cradek: I think dmess wants it to go away completely :p
dmess, Unless you specifically set absolute I,J,K you'll get what you expact so don't worry about it
hey merry Christmas all....
dmess: you mean you just go g3 x30 y30 R15 and not muck around with IJK?
well the boys dealt with that in the '60s didnt they... when the standard was initially developed
on some machines.. yes... but it helps to sighn the R
=/- was how they did itt... but till you screwed a part nobody told ya
LesNewell: I think I think absolute arc I should continue to be radius
LesNewell: but, I think I think g76 i,j,k should be diameter
I agree that I for arcs should be radius
here's my reasoning about g76
1) the point of diameter mode is that diameter is what you measure with all your tools
2) when I'm monkeying with g76's i,j,k, I am doing things like measuring pitch diameter with wires
3) the number I get when measuring pitch diameter, and also the number in my tables, is diameter
so therefore 4) g76 should be in diameters
Sorta makes sense.
we have to weigh that against the simplicity of "X=diameter; everything else=radius"
and honestly I don't know how to weight it
==31841== No malloc'd blocks -- no leaks are possible.
I'm always so pleased to see this message
Votes anyone? My gut feeling is to keep X only but I could be convinced about G76...
voters will be quizzed about G76 to determine their eligibility
then there's the poll tax
Now that is dangerous ground :-)
if you disqualify those who need to refer to the docs to use G76, I think you'll have zero votes
this is where a graphical display showing the points from the gcode would help
* archivist runs
I'm pretty positive now that it should be diameters
this is where archivist gets to write a new piece of software with no benefit to himself but that he gets to use it too
thinking about working out the measurements is what convinced me
would be a good debugging aid and show dia/radius etc
I've spent a lot of time with machinery's handbook and a calculator, trying to figure out those damn IJK numbers, to get the right PD
and I think diameter makes it less bad
However, you can work out the DOC from the thread angle and pitch. That would be radius.
you mean the usual K = pitch * sqrt(3)/2
what's the question/vote again? rephrase it please...
DanielFalck: should G76's i,j,k numbers be in radius or diameter, when in lathe diameter mode
ok, let me try and remember fanuc code...
link to g76 docs: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G76:-Threading-Canned
I don't think fanuc has a code that's a direct parallel
but if it has any canned threading cycle, it would be interesting to know how it works in diameter mode
I'll see if I can dig something up.
sorry, I'm not a lathe programmer, but I have to look at code sometimes at work
the only fanuc lathe manual I have is 0M (I think) and it has nothing like our G76...
maybe I have the model name wrong
but it's old
I might be wrong, but I thought it was OT
ah, could be
you're right: 0-TC
OT is turn, OM is mill
how about I do some research right now before we take a vote?
looking for examples now
[21:17:59] <cradek> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/10436
I'd love to hear your input (I don't believe in strict voting in these cases)
I wonder if we should change AXIS to say Rad:, Dia: instead of X:, Dia:
cradek: I vote for that idea ;-)
i know the 1 line thd code and the 2 line for most fanux contolles
easy enough to do
it neatly works around the problem of X not really being X
dmess: can you give example code for us?
dmess: even better would be a link to online documentation that has all the gritty details
i'd have to dig for paper copies right now but will get examples in the new yr
going back to my questions in that old thread: X repeats in canned cycles are diameter, right?
Been looking through Machinery's. My head hurts but I'm no further forward :-)
LesNewell: heh I know the feeling
i got it for xmas... 27th Electronic... COOL
and for the var file and tool table, everything will work correctly when switching between modes, because those values are always radius
tool change location in the ini: always radius, only needs documentation
I haven't read this one yet, but it looks promising:
[21:23:29] <DanielFalck> http://www.rose-training.com/tandp/jun03.htm
The only effect is that the X is scaled as it is read from the code. Everything else is radius.
Hmm, That canned cycle works very different. Looks like only X is dia though.
the way they cram stuff together in "P" is pretty sickening
Why?? They do it to M6 as well.
Pxx05xx = 05 x .111 = 0.0556 (a length?)
P01xxxx = 01 = a number of spring passes
I meant, why do they do it. Crazy.
what do they do with M6?
probably some constraint from long ago (amount of memory or motivation)
M6T0101 Tool 1 tool offset 1
you can mix tools and offset with that one
That's what G43 is for isn't it?
I don't want to model anything after fanuc G76 - it's an abomination :-)
the usual two ways of loading T1 with offset #1 are T1M6/G43H1 or T0101
I am not familiar with M6T0101
(in EMC2 you don't have to specify the H word in the former case)
swing turret around and crash tool 1 into stock with offset #1 :)
Wish I had a turret to swing round
whee is it nice
Mind you I can crash a rear post as well as anyone.
Q0080 = maximum pass depth This value programmed without a decimal point.
* cradek tries not to throw up
the stuff on the wiki about lathe tools is werird
please don't emulate that one
DanielFalck: no way
tool number + offset number + station number
Join the Fanuc appreciation club :-)
too easy to make a mistake
DanielFalck: no, I looked at fanuc g76 before writing ours, and decided I could do better, and I didn't care if it was 'nonstandard'
CAMs use g33 anyway - g76 should be as easy as possible for hand-written gcode
no problem with that, they are pretty obtuse
the actual manuals were written pretty poorly (Fanuc converted to english)
I think our constant-area compound infeed is very nice
a big advantage for light machines
cradek: R2.0 then?
for constant area
yes I think that's how it's spelled
haha, someone's spell check changed "degression" to "digression" in these docs
that's, um, wrong
nice - entry and exit taper
date: 2008/11/10 23:58:43; author: bigjohnt; state: Exp; lines: +41 -25
add G90.1 and G91.1 and a bunch of spellos
that's what you get for trusting a computer to spell your words for you
well that was a digression...
BigJohnT: can you add degression to your spell checker please
OH the 2 line G76 from fanuc is GROSS g76 m6xxxyyzzaabbbbcc and sometimes other shit on the 1st line
we used it on chmc2 hardinge's
cradek: so I'm confused about the emc version of I in G76- it says that I is offset from the drive line. We're talking about I,J,K possibly being diameter values right?
you're in the process of changing things, obviously
so the diagrams at the bottom of the description will change too
imho it doesn't make sense fro offsets to be dia.
could I be diameter and not be described as an offset? as in you measure the stock (major diameter) then j and K stay the way they are as offsets? I take it K is double depth
If I is a diameter and not an offset, shouldn't it be X?
In that case dia mode would work.
sorry, I don't have a cnc lathe setup and am showing my ignorance on this
Looking at the G76 description, I was thinking pretty much the same as you.
It always struck me as odd that G76 didn't use X at all.
I like the current description of J, K, R, Q, H, E, and L- they make sense to me
cradek: if I can get my head around the description, when you settle on a final rev, I can help you with drawings interspersed between paragraphs
I'm looking at the drawings at the bottom and scrolling back and forth a lot
[22:42:57] <alex_joni> http://www.dimensions-math.org/Dim_regarder_E_E.htm
<- worth watching
alex_joni: Hey! I got ripped! Where's the 4th dimensaion damnit!
wait till you get to the 8th or so ;)
how many dimensions can emc do vs mach?
I mean it can do enough :D
even if it does the same number, it does them better :P
dmess will tell you that apt can place your end mill into the 8th dimension
on top of some tricky aerospace part
well.. I'm sure the endmill looks different in the 8th dimension
however the 3d projection looks like an endmill
is it ahead of the path or behind it?
ahead of it's time
cradek: thanks. I just assumed it offset the perimeter the same as the traces. I think I will take a look at that and see if it would be easy to do automagically.