which part of the drive would be connected to ground?
sorry, I asked this before but wasn't paying attention, is there a feature list for the next version of emc? 2.3? I can download
seen on dxf2gcode translated page under features... G41 and G42 Fräsradienkorrektur possible with enema
how do I set the default directory for when emc2 starts up?
Guest492: I believe there is an entry in the .ini file for that - read the manual
I recommend against dlink routers unless you have a large budget and your time is worthless to you
eric_u: was that just a random comment about dlink routers?
yeah, right after I was disconnected and had to go down and cool the stupid thing off
it overheats at 73 degrees F, and starts rebooting repeatedly
eric_u: Well, don't mount it near the furnace =)
my kids turned up the heat
we have radiant ceiling heat, and it was on the top shelf
so that I get good reception from the second floor
eric_u: is it in a place that it gets air, or is it cramped between other electronics?
sitting by itself on the top shelf
I think the only solution is to put it in a bigger box with a fan
well, put it low and get an ext antenna
put it in the refrigerator?
put a bag of ice on it
the antennas are expensive enough, I'm thinking about buying a different brand
more condensation =)
eric_u: $10 ?
can you get one at bestbuy for that?
I've boycotted BestBuy for 6 years now
actually, the antenna is not a bad idea, I can put it in the basement
circuit city is the alternative, and they are far, far worse
nah look online, then pickup in store
you're mocking me aren't you :)
No, not at all
target doesn't have
yes, they do
well, target may not have in store, but walmart does
target maybe online only
I have a cantenna, but then my wife and daughter wouldn't be able to use the wireless
and your point is?
not ready to escalate things that far just yet
cantenna from the basement might work
eric_u: I have mine mounted vertically.... with vents towards the top
I've tried that, they messed up the vents too
fine, rip off the cover on it then
best buy was a dead loss on this one
[02:11:39] <JymmmEMC> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5131175
circuit city is evil, their site even tries to have a popup window
not sold in stores
ship to store for free
plus that's the wrong connector, pretty sure
[02:12:35] <JymmmEMC> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10264017
that's a $5 antenna
[02:13:06] <JymmmEMC> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10205432
did you see the question on the second link?
is this a tv antenna?
ans: were you born w/o teeth?
I'll be damn... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9894194&findingMethod=rr
is that the entire gps, or just an antenna
That's a special GPS.... never expected to find it at walmart
looks like it goes to pigtails
is one of them a serial line?
what is it used for?
It can be MADE to be used for Type 1 time soruce
I was thinking about that, but I forget why I wanted one
Specifically "provides a pulse-per-second logic-level output with a rising edge aligned to within 1 microsecond of UTC time"
do they keep good time when they can't see a satellite?
No GPS does that
though, some simulate that. But that's not the reason for using that specific gps
do they keep good time when they can only see one satellite?
It's the "pulse per socind" output that you need
starting to look less attractive
All a GPS is, is a fancy clock. nothing more.
so that gps has a direct time output
the serial ones usually output a data stream that includes your location and the time code
But, when/if you want an Type ! Time source, you need the PPS output, which most don't have
most of them have an arm processor on there crunching numbers
and they may tweak a control line like RTS or something every second (or send a byte every second, I don't recall)
I need a cable run from my basement to my attic
This is only for use with a real time server.
eric_u: just run cat5 and toss up a 2nd AP
wonder if that's reverse sma
if I could run cat 5, I'd have a wired network
if you can run coax, you can run cat5
there is no direct route from the basement to the second floor
well, I was going to run coax to an antenna on the first floor
eric_u: What, you don't have walls on the outside of your house?
you dont have attic vents?
disinclined to do that, but it's an idea
how long does cat 5 last outdoors?
Get a couple of these and make them AP's http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3910279
can you do that?
sure, it's what I do
they even have instruction son the website to do that
if I had one of those, I could pack the dlink and a rotten fish, and send it back to tiawan
put in your zip and get it by xmas
I figure it would be prudent to leave my zip code off of the package with the rotten fish and the router, someone in Taiwan might take offense at getting a package with a dlink router in it.
eric_u: I've already fwd the log to them so, they already know who you are and where you live
eric_u: Heh, I can also see that you have never worked around asians before =)
alert homeland security, someones shipping a dlink router
I can curse in Hindi
Um, wrong ocean =)
they are Asian
but what did you mean?
Hindi == Eastern Indian, no?
or am I thinking Hindu
most Indians have some passing knowledge of Hindi
Hindu is a religion
Hindi is the language
WEll Hindi would be Indian Ocean, Tawaian would be PAcific Ocean
and Saudi Arabia is in Southwest Asia
Taiwan is in East Asia
India is halfway inbetween
last I checked
do you run your wrt54g as a wired ap?
Walmart goes opensource http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8087395&findingMethod=rr
It's wired to my dlink, but that's it
ok so it's not a repeater
It's an AP
which dlink do you have?
a 8yo one
I could have bought 2 of those wrt54g routers for what I paid for my dlink, and they probably would have been a lot better
I *think* this is the right article... http://www3.nohold.net/noHoldCust56/Prod_6/KnowledgePortal/KPScripts/amsviewer.asp?docid=5e0c8b1fedea4e7db1644b842a4a65db_KB4184_EN_070208_v1.xml&amsstatsid=4946934
not exactly sure why you would use the same ssid
BAsically... [internet] ---[dsl/cable]-----[router/wifi/dhcp]-------[linksys setup to ONLY be an AP, but ip assigment is still from other router, not this one]
You use the SAME SSID, but different RF channel
That way when you move between the two AP's you still have coverage.
exactly, but the ap strips that info off
SAME SSID, different channels
[Router1 SSID=A, Channel=2] [Router2 SSID=A Channel=5]
Same SSID, SAame authentication, Different channels.
pretty sure windows will switch networks to whichever is strongest if you let it
it could be your neighbor's as long as he is using the same key as you
It works for me =)
there probably is a way to set up linux to do that, but that guy at hp with the faq doesn't know how to do it last I checked
your were bitchin bout dlink, wth does hp have todo with this?
the linux wireless faq is at hp
the router has no problem with linux, it just is heat sensitive
for $40/ea your done and have whole house coverage
I like your coax idea better, then I can put the dlink in the basement where it will never overheat
your coax idea, my cat5 idea
you were the one that posted the link to the coax before anyone mentioned coax :)
to extend the existing antenna so the router is away from the heat
I figure that should work
since heat rises and you have ceiling radiant heat and wonder why it's over heating
those big antennas are just a little antenna at the end of a big piece of plastic
It was much easier to toss up a 2nd AP
I didn't wonder why, I just figure they should make it to survive normal household temperatures
not near a heat source
it overheats at 73 degrees no matter what its distance to a heat source is
then replace it
and let dlink win?
your the one with high blood pressure over a $40 POS
Me on the other hand, have full strenght anywhere in the house =)
they'll be having beers at dlink headquarters, can't have that over $10 worth of coax
and for $30 more you could have a nice shiny new toy to play ith
specially if I can get kevin to make me one out of the junk in his basement
I've had 4 routers, all 4 have had heat related problems
keep your house cooler ;-)
would you talk to the kids for me?
actually, there is no a/c so I still have problems in the summer
the router in the basement/remote antenna idea solves that problem too
any good pcb mill ideas out there?
eric_u: Yeah, a ethernet router with wifi
this dertsap guy has no self-knowledge whatsoever
that thread is a train-wreck of massive proportions, I gotta quit reading it
just take a birthday candle to your router.... that'll prevent you from reading anymore
heck, just breath on it should be enough =)
I know, I've thought of that
but I'd miss you
weren't you working on a cnc router at one point?
Hello to everyone from a new EMC2 user.
got onto this problem, if anyone could spare an advice on how to solve it, it would be appreciated
hi Memocjro - you don't have to ask to ask, just ask
installed the Ubuntu 8.04&EMC2 Live CD , everything went excellent, but after a day or two Ubuntu proposed some updates, i have installed all updates, but now when i try to run EMC2 it stops with an error
[04:48:57] <Memocjro> http://pastebin.com/mc8b8e67
after that i am only able to use my mouse, my keyboard alphanumeric keys are not responding, keyboard is still working, as numlock and caps lock are turning the leds on the keyboard on and off
i do not have any hardware to run with EMC2, i only used it to run some simulations for SCARA robot
puzzling - I have not seen this error before
how much ram is in the machine?
Memory: 1029276k/1048128k available
1gb of ram
is 1G right?
i checked and double checked, i am runing the rtai version of the kernel
I'm not sure what to suggest. I see that you are running the right kernel. I wonder if you have some bad ram or other hardware.
but for some reason it cannot be loaded
[ 1079.346276] EIP is at snd_card_saa7134_capture_open+0xf/0x101 [saa7134_alsa]
did you add or change a sound card or sound card setting?
that is a tvtunner
but that was present before the updates also
the only change i made to the system was those updates
there are several "oopses" here, the first one is related to that tv card. after that there are problems with realtime. have you rebooted after running the updates?
yes, ubuntu update application recommended reboot and so i did
can you remove the tv card and see if emc works?
another strategy would be to run the simulated realtime and the normal ubuntu kernel
i cannot do anything that involves removing the lid of the computer as i loose the waranty
did you try to run a TV or sound related application before EMC? Maybe there is a pattern like that.
i think i tried to play some radio station with Rythmbox
try rebooting and then not doing that
seems like you have a problem related to that...?
did that also, this error i'm not seeing for the first time : ( it's been more than a week of trial and error, same error, only tonight i said to try it out on irc
sorry, I don't know how to help except to suggest you run the sim version
uninstall the emc2 package, then change sources.list to emc2.2-sim instead of emc2.2, then install the emc2-sim package
then you do not need to runthe rtai kernel
it's ok, if needed i might even go back to reinstalling from EMC live cd, and just ignore the updates for a while, maybe installing one after another, and see where it goes bad
that's a good idea too
be sure to reboot between each update (just to be sure)
will do that too
hope you get it going, Memocjro
thank you, goodnight
I think I just figured out why my last computer got very unreliable: about 10 bad caps
I want one of those printers that puts your rss feeds on toilet paper
I used an old dot matrix to print on tp, VERY light pressure and a good ribbon worked out pretty well.
Don't ask what I printed :).
Mission Successful, drive breakout now controls spindle through the SSR!
cool, good night
cradek: seems we were able to "fix" that by preventing saa7134 from loading
we = me & Memocjro
saa7134 didn't quite detect the card properly, and my guess is it did bad things with ipipe / rtai
micgesEMC: fwiw I used configs/sim and when I commanded f12 and make a move along X I see 0.2 in axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
here its like I said
velocity is sended good
but on joint-vel-cmd and on ddt from pos its different
jepler: try running program, jogging vels are ok
this was an MDI move
same in program
so I don't know
I have correct vels in sim too
that tends to indicate the difference is in your ini files, if sim/axis.ini works as expected and your inifile doesn't
perhaps I'm saying only what is obvious
every max vel in ini is 80 and still the same
micgesEMC: maybe the lines you look at are too short for it to reach full speed?
that doesn't mean much without knowing your machine specifics
what accel time you have, etc
I am testing in TRUNK. I modified axis_mm.ini as shown here, based on what micges has said about his configuration: http://pastebin.ca/1292220
then I ran the following program: g21 / g0x0y0z0 / g1x140f500 / m2
during the long move, I get 32770 float RO 8.333333 axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
this is running on a not-quite-new CVS TRUNK version in sim
try with this: http://www.pastebin.ca/1292221
woo whoo - friday.
I mean Friday!!
micgesEMC: yes, after modifying that inifile to run on my system I get a different result than earlier -- in my case, 7.936508 axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
I'm in a different time zone cause it is Saturday for me
quote of the morning.. 'I installed a chrismas screen saver and now I am getting popups and virus warnings'
jepler: try making the TRAJ max_accel same or larger as the axis max_accel
I wonder if that's related
alex_joni: I can't do that now, I have to go to work to do my actual job that I get paid for
micges might try it though, if you think it's worth tryin
jepler: many thanks, I'll test further
jepler: hmm.. thought you might have today off :)
* alex_joni is also close to leaving work
* archivist grumbles about work tomorrow as well
alex_joni: the same
micgesEMC: some setting in there must be the culprit
hmm.. your base_period is quite large
same for servo and traj
base is not used
then I have no clue :)
try starting with sim and see if the problem is there
sim is ok
then change all? values till you find one that causes the problem
I'm doing it
thanks for help
(not much help :/)
ok I have clue: when I change servo-period from 1000.000 to 500.000 I have : f500 fb-vel=379
* alex_joni looks in cradek's direction :)
when I change servo-period from 1000.000 to 2.000.000 I have : f500 fb-vel=477
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-23.txt
KimK is now known as KimK_afk
yay, winter vacation starts officially now :)
could anyone give me a brief introduction to MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT ?
as i am a bit confused about what these tow values mean
setting a MIN_LIMIT = -300 and MAX_LIMIT = 300 for an angular axis should mean that that axis is able to move 300 degrees left and 300 right?
well, as strange it might sound, it doesnt :(
I have much larger values on my A axis
Memocjro: that's not enough information for someone to help...
i have modified the limits for the scara.ini
when displaying the limits from View -> Machine Limits, there is this red box drawn
i don't know how to explain more exactly,
i had setup x to -300, 300; y to -300, 300 and z to 25, 300 (Min, Max)
that made a box with square base
modifying x to -900, 900 (min, max) made a box with a rectangular base, widen up on x axis
also if angular, value >360 doesn't make too much sense
but i was always off machine limits
angles > 360 do make sense
but not necessarily on your machine :)
consider a spiral being cut with X and A motion, where you want 10 turns of the part
you program A3600 X<whatever>
as for your problem, you may be running into an issue between "joints" and "axes"
a SCARA has 3 joints: R, theta, Z (IIRC)
AXIS will show the limits as a rectangle based on the numbers in the AXIS_0, AXIS_1, and AXIS_2 sections of the ini
err - a parallelopiped actually
this will be wrong, since the SCARA robot actually has a portion of a cylinder as its work volume
if you are using the SCARA kinematics, then you don't program the angle directly
you program XYZ, and kinematics converts to RTZ
(T=theta, sorry - no greek chars on my keyboard :) )
i am at beginning right now, what i am trying to do is to move that EMC2 AXIS text in such way that i can be able to turn in the machine and machine to follow that,
unfortunately, I don't know too mouch about configuring non-trivial kinematics machines
alex_joni may be the best expert here
I think the scara kins also let you set the joint lenghts from hal..
SWPadnos: I'll try to clear things up with Memocjro
however we both find it a tad bit easier to talk romanian, so it'll be private (not to spam this channel ;)
[16:31:11] <cradek> http://www.stirlingsouth.com/richard/math.htm
are you going to send answers in?
no of course not
but they are challenging, which is fun
it took me two tries (on separate days) to get #3. that's as far as I am.
hmm.. something is borken for touch-off
can someone confirm ?
running scara as the config
home all, then switch to world, jog to anywhere and touch off
yes, #3 can't be done in my head
I see the AXIS display gets updated (the program gets moved), but the readout stays the same
(well, neither can 1 or 2, but I can get the proper equation in my head)
XYZ don't change to 0 (or whatever touchoff value was used)
alex_joni: is display set to relative?
are you in world mode?
yes, it's in world mode
ok, switching to relative updates the numbers
I still get an "exceeds machine limits" error though :/
hmm.. any g0 z<x> movement (in MDI) brings that error
I can jog up/down just fine
[17:27:52] <JymmmEMC> http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_11291623?source=rss_emailed
cradek: without actually trying them on paper, they seem kinda easy
wow - leslie's email should be on the wiki
get on the mailing lists JymmmEMC then you would know
it wouldn't do much good in the manual, since it's about installation of Linux
SWPadnos: hows the unloading coming along?
exactly as planned
SWPadnos: Ah, so it's as if you left it a few days ago
but but it only wants a home for christmas
I did move the trailer to a better spot in the driveway though
it has one
in the driveway
no no, it's cold and freezeing, it wants a warm spot in the garage with electricity and everything
SWPandos: what did you buy?
the garage isn't heated
john_f, an HNC lathe
yep. one day it
ti'll be off the trailer :)
Now you need to make a heated space in your garage like I did
[19:05:13] <SWPadnos> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/images/products/21-211-041.jpg
complete with bar feeder and air chuck :)
Of course I don't put cars in there. That is not what a garage if for :)
sadly, half of mine has to be for that, lr my wife would kill me
man, they sure cut prices: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=80-242-045&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
I think that one was 600 or more a week ago
is that totaly manual?
I broke my laptop
and i broke it good
Nice. too bad I have too many projects right now
I have: no /usr, no /etc/, no /home and no swap.
fragalot, well, if you're going to do something, do it right!
apparently, I don't even have the harddisk I just booted it from.
sounds like you have no /hard disk
So, I really want to ask a Q about EMC2. If I want more than 4 axis do I need 2 5I20s or can I use a 5I23?
isn't the 5i23 basically a 5i20 with a larger FPGA? (still 3 connectors)
you should be able to mix and match, if that's the question
but it is not mentioned in the integrator manual
you could probably use one 5i22 also, since it has 4 connectors
ok. I think the driver supports it, but I haven't looked at the code to confirm that
pretty sure you could use two 7i33
don't you get 4 axis out of one 7i33?
5I22 is kind of $$
doesn't the new firmware allow this flexabillity?
Like cradek said.
john_f: there are a lot of features in the new "hostmot2" that haven't been fully explained in the manual
Do I get this info from Mesa?
the 5i23 is supported
with the new driver, you can set two headers as servos (4 each) and one header as general I/O, for instance
at least there are bitfiles for it
hold on, let me find you a link to what passes for our documentation
[19:15:31] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[19:15:33] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hm2_pci.9.html
"The supported boards are: the 5i20, 5i22, and 5i23 (all on PCI); and the 4i65 and 4i68 (on PC-104/Plus)."
also, for the 5i20 there are firmware images that allow up to 12 servos (PWM+encoder) or 8 PWM and 4 stepgens
having only one header for general-purpose I/O may be a problematic limitation, though
yeah, you'd have to split the cable or something to get access to any pins on the servo header(s) that you want to use as generic IO
then here are files describing the pinouts of the 8- and 12-servo setups of the 5i20: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/firmware/5i20/SVST8_4.PIN?rev=1.1 http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/firmware/5i20/SV12.PIN?rev=1.1
OK then the 5I20 should drive 5 servos, + a spindle encoder input + encoder handwheel input?
yes, it could do all that and still leave the whole third connector free, for instance to put one of the 8O+16I isolated I/O boards
question is how many more then axis do you need? can't you use unused encoders and pwm as 'general i/o'.. or doesn't that work?
skunkworks: well, kinda
5 axes of servos = 5 encoder inputs. add spindle and MPG and you have 7
I think the PWMs and encoders get enabled separately, so you'd be able to say you want 5 PWM and 7 encoder
MPG = handwheel
manual pulse generator
skunkworks: the pins have to be in the right place on the isolated I/O board depending on the direction you need
unless you use an opto-22 module rack, in which case you should be able to do any I/O pattern you like
I haven't tested that yet though, so don't take that as the gospel :)
OK I will need to map out my I/O and see how it looks
the extra pins on the servo/encoder connectors should also be usable as I/O, but you'll need to mess with cabling/breakouts to make that work
wow - I think this computer is finally clean..
no - I didn't install linux instead
you just nuked it then?
actually, I wonder... if you nuke a harddisk via /dev/urandom, is it possible that the random data forms a supervirus?
no - just multible utilities
if i wanted to mirror the linuxcnc hardy archive
but not all of it
what would be the right way to go about that?
rsync + crontab ???
no idea what rsnapshot is, but get the idea
fragalot: Sure, it's possible, not very likely though
apt-get install rsnapshot
and you'll see
no thanks =)
it's basicly rsync + crontab
just that you have a config file
to define what dirs you want, and how often
and it does the rest
(remote/local copy, etc)
one of the nice things is that it uses hardlinks for incremental backups
I'm going to start using standard distro + subversion from now on.
I do daily "backups"
but only different things get saved, all the old stuff gets hardlinked
you look at rdiff-backup ?
nope, rsnapshot fit my needs, didn't look further
it's rsync + incrmental and keeps track of changes so you can rollback at any point you like
[20:34:04] <alex_joni> http://www.rsnapshot.org/
wow, I got my Christmas shopping done a day early this year :)
oh hmm. maybe I should get a giant-screen TV
too bad the lathe is still on the trailer
got a plan yet SWPadnos
what did you get for you BigJohnT
BigJohnT, the plan right now is to think about it a bit more ;)
good plan SWPadnos
archivist: I didn't get nothing I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage
SWPadnos: I say toss a strap around the lathe attached to a tree. Then rev up the RPM's on the jeep and pop the clutch!
then they all moved away from be on the bench there
SWPadnos: Fine, nuetral then pop into first
if you get a long strap it'll surely work
so that you get up to speed before it's tight
if only I had a strong tree near the drveway
put a strap around your house
and if it's a giant bungee, it'll snatch it waaaay back into the garage
what's a couple more years?
SWPadnos, local hire shop and get some shear legs and a hoist
heh.. too much looney tunes
I'm thinking of buying a chainfall
don't forget the swing set
swings for fat kids
SWPadnos: I still say some round rod and a couple of come-alongs.
that's the other idea
I don't know which one I'll use, but I do know I'm not going to decide when it's 10 degrees out
flat the tires and slide it off
I could use an engine hoist to pull up the tongue - make a tilting trailer out oif it ;)
dont worry, it'll tilt all on it's own
tilting the trailer is easy - just unhook it from the truck and push the lathe back
I'd have to get the control off first I think
yea but you want it to stay in that position when the lathe comes off :)
SWPadnos: Actually... You might want to put a floor jack on the backend so you can tilt it down slowly
true - upending the lathe on te ground isn't the desired effect
and CHOCK THE TIRES!!!!
I did that
I mean when you start to unload it
yeah. I imagine I'll use wedges at that point
floor jacks don't let you move something downward in a controlled fashion
yeah sorta kinda
I just got a nice pair of fur lined work gloves for Christmas, but I'm on Calif SWPadnos or I'd give ya a hand
cradek, jepler, You even spiral in cutting holes in the gcode.ulp. Awesome!
skunkworks: we got tired of not having drills for those larger holes
cradek: MY 4 ton jack does... just gotta open it sloooooowly
I see Leslie Newell sure likes the MPG response with EMC
realtime response is nice
wonder why his 8.04 didn't generate the correct charge pump code :?
still looked right to me
hmmmm or is user-enable-out the strobe?
user-request-enable is the strobe
someone should test it
the guy who is having trouble should test it
it seemed to work correctly with the G540, but there's a fault input (which makes things a little different)
you can't troubleshoot read hardware without a DMM, and you can't troubleshoot hal without a halmeter
speaking of troubleshooting: http://cgi.ebay.com/Hardinge-Troubleshooting-Guide-Super-Precision-HNC_W0QQitemZ300228512204QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
* archivist likes a real scope as well
cradek, do you have manuals for your lathe?
I have that one
a lot of it is control-specific
what is the copyright status of things like that
doesn't home? check wire 136 for 12v, etc etc.
charge pump works for me on 8.04...
good question. I did notice that it's a copy
looks like if there is NOT a notice in it, it's PD now
I should look thru my van norman manuals for notices and dates
if there is a notice, it's PD in 2070 or so, amazingly enough
this web page is great for this kind of question
if it is legal, I'd like to scan them and publish online, so people don't have to pay some ebay dude $60 or more
you might make him find honest work then
but he'd probably just find different dishonest work
SWPadnos: I have full schematics for the control too
or continue milking the people who don't know how to operate google
that would probably be useful
the wiring in the lathe housing would be even better
* jmkasunich goes back out to hopefully finish xmas shopping
SWPadnos: it's all nicely numbered
SWPadnos: I ran very little new wiring
SWPadnos: compared to the mazak it should be easy, looks like a lot less wire
no massive blue bundles
I didn't do the mazak ;)
only little black bundles in this one
if all the wires are blue you cant fail to connect to a blue wire you cant faile!
cradek: on that copyright thing - what is "life of the author", if the author is unknown - manuals are made by a collection of anonymous tech writers and drafters at some company
we wired a boat with red wire that way
jmkasunich: surely the copyright holder? whoever it says on the copyright statement
"corporate authorship" is listed differently
hm, I see what you mean: "without notice" + "death of author" = ?
The author would be the company
some corporates have a nice attitude to copying old manuals
archivist: the company I'm interested in (Van Norman) is sort of gone
then no problem
what is left (mostly drawings and parts) was bought by a company that earns money by overcharging for parts and manuals
I have a letter from one saying its ok philips
jmkasunich Van Norman what? Industrial, Mfg, company?
they won't be sympathetic
Van Norman Company, Springfield 7, Mass, USA on the cover of one manual
did they buy copyrights
Van Norman Machine Company on another
archivist: who knows
I assume so
it amuses me HP cd sellers on fleabay, just go to the website and download
I bought out a one man business who copied manuals so I have a "few"
jmkasunichHeh, yourwebsite seems to have the most info on the company actually
yeah, so if I put manuals there, all but the most google impaired could find them
however, manual sellers (if they own the copyrights) would also find them, and then lawyers would find me
jmkasunich But, it appears that the company still exists (in part), which typical be the holder of copyrights
selling parts and manuals for those machines (and others) is a small but steady gravy train for them
if the manuals are public domain, I'd gladly derail the train
if they're not, they'd gladly derail me
* anonimasu nods
I tend these days to wait for an email then copy and place in a subdir known to the person
my index is on the web
so unless you find and ask you dont know I do copies
JymmmEMC: Kwik-way doesn't have the milling machine manuals
jmkasunich Doens't physically have them or legally have them?
[21:13:19] <jmkasunich> http://www.repair-parts-inc.com/about.htm
kwik-way bought the automotive tool part of van norman - cylinder boring, brake lathes, etc
RPI bought the milling machine part
jmkasunich "...We furnish not only parts and machines but tooling, training, manuals,..."
which site is that on? KW, or RPI?
[21:15:38] <JymmmEMC> http://www.repair-parts-inc.com/index.htm
I already said that sell manuals
But they don't have them?
and I say that on my website too
I'm sure when they bought the remains of Van Norman, they got manuals as well as part drawings
if the copyrights have expired, and the manuals are in the public domain, then anyone, including them, can sell copies for whatever the market will pay
jmkasunich, just put a list of what you have, respond if you get any requests, just dont leave downloads open if worried
AND I can put copies online for free (which will make the market pay less)
Ok, then RPI would be the copyright holder/"author" in this case. It's 75 years AFTER the death of author, but the author lives on so to speak I believe
jmkasunich: there's a solution to this, it's called torrents :)
JymmmEMC: if published without a copyright notice in 1923 thru 1977, then they are in public domain, doesn't matter how long the "author" lives
1978 to 1 March 1989 Created after 1977 and published with notice 70 years after death of author, or if work of corporate authorship, 95 years from publication
lol, most of what I have is pre 1978
they stopped making machines in 1981, and for the last few years were just limping along
even back to 1923, it's 95 years
if published with notice
so I simply have to check for notices
and by the looks of the ebay manual it has (c) on it
so far I haven't seen any - looked at a couple
what ebay manual?
the one swp posted?
Yeah it looks like it
that is hardinge silly
I don't see any (c) on the cover, though there are a few places where there's likely a (tm)
[21:21:44] <JymmmEMC> http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/site_media/item_images/vannormlayout.jpg
jmkasunich: you might be ok, if RPI is selling them. They make their money on parts and machines. It might actually be a service to them for you to have them available.
I have a couple different #12 manuals (or copies of manuals)
DanielFalck: hard to say, and I really don't feel like asking (and drawing attention to myself)
[21:22:47] <JymmmEMC> http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/manuals/van-norman/
I've bought a gear hobber from them and they are a bunch of old guys who used to work for Barber Colman
if PD, I'll someday get off my lazy ass and scan them
if not, well....
maybe I will ask
actually, what I really want to talk to is some old guy who worked for VN
damned hard work
I recently came across a #16 with a quill, which conventional wisdom says they never made
I wish sane was a bit better for multiple scans
I'm wondering if somebody did a head transplant
[21:25:05] <DanielFalck> http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/manuals/leblond/
[21:25:16] <JymmmEMC> http://www.machineryvalues.com/xdetails.cfm/QN/132489
LeBlond still sells these
I just bought one at work for $80
We sold a machine to a friend and wanted to make sure he had the proper manual for it
much cheaper on that site
heh - no quill :)
what is the center control with detents on the knee?
oh, some kind of mechanical power feed - bizarre
looks like it could be an auto-feed rate setting
[21:28:37] <JymmmEMC> http://www.beautomotivemachine.com/servlet/Categories?category=Automotive+Machine+Shop+Equipment+Manuals%3AVan+Norman+Manuals
wonder what all it can feed
that would be nice for deep drilling
cradek: which machine?
[21:30:12] <cradek> http://www.machineryvalues.com/xdetails.cfm/QN/132489
the 16 has power feed on table only (X)
the bigger ones have power feed on all axes
ok, this is a 16
I don't see how it works...
[21:31:13] <JymmmEMC> http://stores.ebay.ca/Automotive-Machine-and-Equipment_Auto-Machine-Shop-Manuals_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ5QQftidZ2QQtZkm
I was just talking to Chuck at RPI, formerly worked for Van Norman
the mill at HGR was sold to Ford in Cleveland in 1956
cradek: what don't you see?
damn... they still have the records that far back
how does it move X?
unless they're spinning the nut, I don't see how it's done
small motor inside the knee, multi-speed transmission in the knee, splined shaft parallel to the Y leadscrew, splined sleeve in the saddle, with a worm on its OD, and a worm gear around the X screw (along with clutches and reversing gears in the saddle)
the splined shaft is visible in the 2nd pic on that site, under the table on the right of the knee
a shaft sticks out of the knee at the back, drives the spined shaft thru a right angle gear of some sort, worm or crossed spiral or something
the splined shaft comes forward from there
sounds complex :)
amazing how many gears it takes to replace a servomotor
yeah. wires are a much more flexible means of power delivery
till the flexing breaks them
on mine, the feed speed gearbox hangs off the back instead of being in the knee
but the final part of the drivetrain is similar
the spined shaft is replaced by a shaft with u-joints and keyed so it can stretch about 4" as the knee goes up and down
then worm driving worm gear, driving reversing gears, dog clutches, and keyed to the X screw
[21:44:22] <jmkasunich> http://www.quantums.info/vannorm/page11.jpg
SWPadnos: click on the photo... http://www.liliputing.com/2008/08/lenovo-ideapad-s10-hits-the-fcc-photos-lots-and-lots-of-photos.html
our brown and sharp has one heck of a gear box in it.. No clue how it works. You have a crank to change the spindle rpm and feeds. you each turn shifts to a different gear.
is that the one with 16 gears?
those old machines were flat out amazing
JymmmEMC, uh - ok ...
don't know - have not looked at it in a while. - no the K&T is the 16 gears in the spindle (4 bit shift rails) ;)
the brown and sharp is like a bridgeport on sterioids
lots of steroids I bet
is this a vertical?
the ones where the frame looks sort of like a giant thick C
Ive used a 2A was a nice beast
yes - vertical
you can see just a little bit - upper right http://www.electronicsam.com/images/shaper.JPG
* skunkworks should take a few pictures.
I made a ring light here but it was too dim
and LED colour messed with the web cam
interesting use for a ring light
was trying to make a centering /setup for gear cutting
I started making a motor mount for the rotary table today
mill-drill on steroids: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=42-608-012&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
I bet that is stiffer than a bport
that looks stiff
the head looks like a clone of a bridgeport head
I saw it at HGR the other day, but didn't look too closely
you are an expert of emc2
SWPadnos: rumor has it you can rent these: http://www.rolalift.com/index.shtml
Dodo: just ask your question, if someone knows the answer they will speak up
I have started some INI file but the rispons in every line is no command found
please attempt to run EMC in a shell (command line), and then copy the command and the messages to http://pastebin.ca
jmkasunich: can I tempt you again? http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=06-277-103&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
then post the link here
if I decide not to buy the van norman
it is hard to judge size in those pics
* jmkasunich not made of money
it's only a couple bucks :)
for complete fun buy HGR
that is my version of a pipe dream
right now I'm not on college so y can't run the files
archivist needs to come over here with a truck (and a boat to get the truck back home)
but i can send you the files that im trying to run
without an actual error, it's hard to find out what was wrong with your system
Dodo: if "every" command is failing, the problem is probably not the files
Dodo: did you send those to the mailing list too?
they seem fine, the error must be someplace else
jmkasunich: cool stuff: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=10-534-056&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=4&searchNAP=
jepler told you what to do - run it, and then post the actual erro messages
alex_joni: what for?
you say that the files are ok
jmkasunich: A axis
that mean that i'm doing something wrong
Dodo: might not be you.. but something is wrong
might be your computer, or the way EMC is installed....
i run the script on 2 computers and it is the same
how did you install EMC?
i didn't it came with the linux
you mean, you got a .iso file from linuxcnc.org, and installed that on your computer?
no the profesor gave me the cd with linux operation system and there was also EMC incorporated
EMC2 to be precise
so, the professor probably got the .iso from linuxcnc.org and burned the disk
or it's a BDI ...
anyway we can't help you right now
SWPadnos: he said emc2
there is some emc2 on the bdi disk :)
we don't know: 1) exactly what you are running 2) exactly what command you issued 3) exactly what happened when you did it
we are not good a guessing
the last time we went in to a big guessing game it turned out that the files were corrupt, I think because a windows computer was used to download them or something
i entered the directory on the computer like this : $emc2 CD HOme/robi/emc2
this is the basic directory of emc2
than i soecified the file i want to run like this configs/servo/servo.ini
and finali this comand show me every line of the hal file like this stepgen.update-freq servo-thread command not found
you aren't supposed to execute the hal file from the shell
which it sounds like you did
no i run the ini file
you don't run the ini file either
you run emc, and select the ini file you want to use
or you run emc and specify the ini file to use
ok than what do i have to do to run a custom configuration written in hal
are you trying to run EMC, or just some other HAL-only thing?
if you want to test loading of a hal file, you may be able to use halrun
man halrun for the options
what do you understand by "custom configuration written in hal" ?
i have a motor with gecko driver and it is working with the wizard
but because i wile have to do some more comlicated things after i have to do the same thing with hal and ini files
i made thee files but now i don't now haw to power the motor with it
do you expect to use G-code and therefore EMC2, or do you only need the functionality that HAL can provide (hardware drivers, other components ...)?
and no interface
I need the interface
axis to bee precise
ok, so you want to use all of emc2
there are some sample configs included with emc2
you might want to look at those, and see what is different from yours
I have the configuration that is working or should work but i think that i dont now how to run it
i have an example made by someone else that worked but i cant find the way to run it
i trye that aut it isn't working that means that something elese is wrong
can i send you my so you can trye to run it
Dodo: if the problem is that you can't run known good files, then sending us your files doesn't help
you need to learn how to run known good files, and then move on to running your own files
hey JymmmEMC, can you pick this up and ship it to me? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250344637582
ok but how
if you aren't at the EMC computer right now, there isn't much else to do
is the EMC computer connected to the internet?
what do you mean by internal
this thing that we are talking on ;-)
sorry i read something else
no? that is unfortunate :-(
yes i know
if it was connected, then you could be on IRC while you are actually trying to do things
tell your professor to get some ethernet cable ;-)
but i have another computer by that has internet
soo i could do it
that is better than nothing
but it is really good to be able to copy/paste error messages and such things
the problem is that now it is time of vacations
so i cant do anithing the next 2 weaks
than you anyway now i now where to find help
yes download the live cd and practice
you are welcome
Dodo: if you have a PC at home, download the livecd and do it on your pc
have a nice vacation and a happy christmas
you don't need to install it, just run it from cd
happy christmas and a New Year full of money and love
Live linux you mean
i have it at home
no the live cd from http://www.linuxcnc.org
yes that one
it has emc2 set up
so i could run the cd and try to run the ini file from the terminal
is that wat you are saying
i will trye that eee you in a few thays
Hi all.... happy almost chrismas
SWPadnos: I could, but how to ship it?
SWPadnos: 770 lbs and I found it NEW for $589
770 lbs of WHAT??? if i may ask??
SWPadnos: Sorry, capacity is 770 lbs, shipping weight is 268, net weight is 248lbs
the capacity is 2200 pounds
ahh so from under a buck a pound to over 2 bucks a pound ;)
ok $849.99 new
mill?? lathe?? grinder?? granite table??
[23:37:03] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250344637582
good night all
oh hey - $40 shipping is not bad
time to go eat though. see you later
SWPadnos: yeah, maybe it might outweight the cost diff