#emc | Logs for 2008-12-23

[00:36:02] <eric_u> which part of the drive would be connected to ground?
[00:59:42] <Guest492> sorry, I asked this before but wasn't paying attention, is there a feature list for the next version of emc? 2.3? I can download
[01:01:43] <LawrenceG> seen on dxf2gcode translated page under features... G41 and G42 Fräsradienkorrektur possible with enema
[01:05:16] <Guest492> duh das?
[01:31:45] <Guest492> how do I set the default directory for when emc2 starts up?
[01:44:08] <jmkasunich> Guest492: I believe there is an entry in the .ini file for that - read the manual
[01:49:16] <eric_u> I recommend against dlink routers unless you have a large budget and your time is worthless to you
[02:01:21] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: was that just a random comment about dlink routers?
[02:01:50] <eric_u> yeah, right after I was disconnected and had to go down and cool the stupid thing off
[02:02:16] <eric_u> it overheats at 73 degrees F, and starts rebooting repeatedly
[02:02:28] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Well, don't mount it near the furnace =)
[02:02:37] <eric_u> my kids turned up the heat
[02:02:54] <eric_u> we have radiant ceiling heat, and it was on the top shelf
[02:03:07] <eric_u> so that I get good reception from the second floor
[02:03:08] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: is it in a place that it gets air, or is it cramped between other electronics?
[02:03:22] <eric_u> sitting by itself on the top shelf
[02:03:43] <eric_u> I think the only solution is to put it in a bigger box with a fan
[02:03:49] <JymmmEMC> well, put it low and get an ext antenna
[02:03:59] <DanielFalck> put it in the refrigerator?
[02:04:07] <JymmmEMC> condensation
[02:04:13] <DanielFalck> put a bag of ice on it
[02:04:20] <eric_u> the antennas are expensive enough, I'm thinking about buying a different brand
[02:04:21] <JymmmEMC> more condensation =)
[02:04:27] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: $10 ?
[02:04:35] <DanielFalck> firehose?
[02:04:48] <JymmmEMC> fire hydrant?
[02:04:56] <JymmmEMC> water bill!!!
[02:04:59] <eric_u> can you get one at bestbuy for that?
[02:05:15] <JymmmEMC> I've boycotted BestBuy for 6 years now
[02:05:17] <eric_u> actually, the antenna is not a bad idea, I can put it in the basement
[02:05:31] <eric_u> circuit city is the alternative, and they are far, far worse
[02:05:46] <JymmmEMC> nah look online, then pickup in store
[02:05:53] <eric_u> where?
[02:05:59] <JymmmEMC> circuitcity.com
[02:06:10] <JymmmEMC> frys
[02:06:18] <JymmmEMC> walmart
[02:06:20] <JymmmEMC> kmart
[02:06:21] <JymmmEMC> sears
[02:06:23] <eric_u> you're mocking me aren't you :)
[02:06:24] <JymmmEMC> target
[02:06:29] <JymmmEMC> No, not at all
[02:06:30] <eric_u> target doesn't have
[02:06:32] <DanielFalck> craigslist
[02:06:35] <JymmmEMC> yes, they do
[02:06:54] <JymmmEMC> well, target may not have in store, but walmart does
[02:07:04] <JymmmEMC> target maybe online only
[02:07:12] <eric_u> I have a cantenna, but then my wife and daughter wouldn't be able to use the wireless
[02:07:35] <JymmmEMC> and your point is?
[02:07:49] <eric_u> not ready to escalate things that far just yet
[02:08:08] <eric_u> cantenna from the basement might work
[02:08:41] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: I have mine mounted vertically.... with vents towards the top
[02:08:58] <eric_u> I've tried that, they messed up the vents too
[02:09:07] <JymmmEMC> who's they?
[02:09:15] <eric_u> dlink
[02:09:31] <JymmmEMC> fine, rip off the cover on it then
[02:10:13] <eric_u> best buy was a dead loss on this one
[02:11:39] <JymmmEMC> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5131175
[02:11:40] <eric_u> circuit city is evil, their site even tries to have a popup window
[02:12:00] <eric_u> not sold in stores
[02:12:12] <JymmmEMC> ship to store for free
[02:12:21] <eric_u> plus that's the wrong connector, pretty sure
[02:12:35] <JymmmEMC> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10264017
[02:12:36] <eric_u> that's a $5 antenna
[02:13:06] <JymmmEMC> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10205432
[02:13:44] <eric_u> did you see the question on the second link?
[02:13:49] <eric_u> is this a tv antenna?
[02:14:10] <JymmmEMC> fiik
[02:14:26] <eric_u> ans: were you born w/o teeth?
[02:15:15] <JymmmEMC> I'll be damn... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9894194&findingMethod=rr
[02:15:58] <eric_u> is that the entire gps, or just an antenna
[02:16:26] <JymmmEMC> That's a special GPS.... never expected to find it at walmart
[02:16:38] <eric_u> looks like it goes to pigtails
[02:16:43] <JymmmEMC> It does
[02:16:52] <eric_u> is one of them a serial line?
[02:17:03] <JymmmEMC> yes
[02:17:27] <eric_u> what is it used for?
[02:17:56] <JymmmEMC> It can be MADE to be used for Type 1 time soruce
[02:17:58] <JymmmEMC> source
[02:18:32] <eric_u> I was thinking about that, but I forget why I wanted one
[02:19:00] <JymmmEMC> Specifically "provides a pulse-per-second logic-level output with a rising edge aligned to within 1 microsecond of UTC time"
[02:19:07] <eric_u> do they keep good time when they can't see a satellite?
[02:19:21] <JymmmEMC> No GPS does that
[02:19:58] <JymmmEMC> though, some simulate that. But that's not the reason for using that specific gps
[02:20:05] <eric_u> do they keep good time when they can only see one satellite?
[02:20:13] <JymmmEMC> It's the "pulse per socind" output that you need
[02:20:16] <JymmmEMC> no
[02:20:41] <eric_u> starting to look less attractive
[02:20:50] <JymmmEMC> All a GPS is, is a fancy clock. nothing more.
[02:20:52] <eric_u> so that gps has a direct time output
[02:21:21] <SWPadnos> the serial ones usually output a data stream that includes your location and the time code
[02:21:21] <JymmmEMC> But, when/if you want an Type ! Time source, you need the PPS output, which most don't have
[02:21:44] <eric_u> most of them have an arm processor on there crunching numbers
[02:21:45] <SWPadnos> and they may tweak a control line like RTS or something every second (or send a byte every second, I don't recall)
[02:22:31] <eric_u> I need a cable run from my basement to my attic
[02:22:38] <JymmmEMC> This is only for use with a real time server.
[02:22:49] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2680539
[02:23:26] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: just run cat5 and toss up a 2nd AP
[02:23:27] <eric_u> wonder if that's reverse sma
[02:23:42] <eric_u> if I could run cat 5, I'd have a wired network
[02:23:56] <JymmmEMC> if you can run coax, you can run cat5
[02:23:59] <eric_u> there is no direct route from the basement to the second floor
[02:24:20] <eric_u> well, I was going to run coax to an antenna on the first floor
[02:24:40] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: What, you don't have walls on the outside of your house?
[02:24:53] <JymmmEMC> you dont have attic vents?
[02:25:25] <eric_u> disinclined to do that, but it's an idea
[02:25:51] <eric_u> how long does cat 5 last outdoors?
[02:26:02] <JymmmEMC> Get a couple of these and make them AP's http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3910279
[02:26:25] <eric_u> can you do that?
[02:26:32] <JymmmEMC> sure, it's what I do
[02:26:43] <JymmmEMC> they even have instruction son the website to do that
[02:26:54] <eric_u> if I had one of those, I could pack the dlink and a rotten fish, and send it back to tiawan
[02:27:56] <JymmmEMC> put in your zip and get it by xmas
[02:29:23] <eric_u> I figure it would be prudent to leave my zip code off of the package with the rotten fish and the router, someone in Taiwan might take offense at getting a package with a dlink router in it.
[02:30:36] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: I've already fwd the log to them so, they already know who you are and where you live
[02:31:03] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Heh, I can also see that you have never worked around asians before =)
[02:31:05] <eric_u> alert homeland security, someones shipping a dlink router
[02:31:25] <eric_u> I can curse in Hindi
[02:31:44] <JymmmEMC> Um, wrong ocean =)
[02:31:57] <eric_u> they are Asian
[02:32:50] <eric_u> but what did you mean?
[02:33:05] <JymmmEMC> Hindi == Eastern Indian, no?
[02:33:24] <JymmmEMC> or am I thinking Hindu
[02:33:34] <eric_u> most Indians have some passing knowledge of Hindi
[02:33:41] <eric_u> Hindu is a religion
[02:34:01] <eric_u> Hindi is the language
[02:34:02] <JymmmEMC> WEll Hindi would be Indian Ocean, Tawaian would be PAcific Ocean
[02:34:22] <eric_u> and Saudi Arabia is in Southwest Asia
[02:34:33] <eric_u> Taiwan is in East Asia
[02:34:40] <eric_u> India is halfway inbetween
[02:34:44] <eric_u> last I checked
[02:36:12] <eric_u> do you run your wrt54g as a wired ap?
[02:36:50] <eric_u> Walmart goes opensource http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8087395&findingMethod=rr
[02:38:19] <JymmmEMC> It's wired to my dlink, but that's it
[02:38:36] <eric_u> ok so it's not a repeater
[02:38:44] <JymmmEMC> It's an AP
[02:40:01] <eric_u> which dlink do you have?
[02:40:18] <JymmmEMC> a 8yo one
[02:40:56] <eric_u> I could have bought 2 of those wrt54g routers for what I paid for my dlink, and they probably would have been a lot better
[02:45:16] <JymmmEMC> I *think* this is the right article... http://www3.nohold.net/noHoldCust56/Prod_6/KnowledgePortal/KPScripts/amsviewer.asp?docid=5e0c8b1fedea4e7db1644b842a4a65db_KB4184_EN_070208_v1.xml&amsstatsid=4946934
[02:47:16] <eric_u> not exactly sure why you would use the same ssid
[02:47:29] <JymmmEMC> BAsically... [internet] ---[dsl/cable]-----[router/wifi/dhcp]-------[linksys setup to ONLY be an AP, but ip assigment is still from other router, not this one]
[02:47:46] <JymmmEMC> You use the SAME SSID, but different RF channel
[02:48:04] <JymmmEMC> That way when you move between the two AP's you still have coverage.
[02:48:08] <eric_u> exactly, but the ap strips that info off
[02:48:18] <JymmmEMC> Um, no.
[02:48:28] <JymmmEMC> SAME SSID, different channels
[02:49:17] <JymmmEMC> [Router1 SSID=A, Channel=2] [Router2 SSID=A Channel=5]
[02:49:44] <JymmmEMC> Same SSID, SAame authentication, Different channels.
[02:50:30] <eric_u> pretty sure windows will switch networks to whichever is strongest if you let it
[02:50:56] <eric_u> it could be your neighbor's as long as he is using the same key as you
[02:50:57] <JymmmEMC> It works for me =)
[02:51:28] <eric_u> there probably is a way to set up linux to do that, but that guy at hp with the faq doesn't know how to do it last I checked
[02:52:15] <JymmmEMC> your were bitchin bout dlink, wth does hp have todo with this?
[02:52:26] <eric_u> the linux wireless faq is at hp
[02:52:46] <eric_u> the router has no problem with linux, it just is heat sensitive
[02:52:53] <JymmmEMC> for $40/ea your done and have whole house coverage
[02:54:26] <eric_u> I like your coax idea better, then I can put the dlink in the basement where it will never overheat
[02:54:46] <JymmmEMC> your coax idea, my cat5 idea
[02:55:08] <eric_u> you were the one that posted the link to the coax before anyone mentioned coax :)
[02:55:34] <JymmmEMC> to extend the existing antenna so the router is away from the heat
[02:55:47] <eric_u> I figure that should work
[02:56:03] <JymmmEMC> since heat rises and you have ceiling radiant heat and wonder why it's over heating
[02:56:07] <eric_u> those big antennas are just a little antenna at the end of a big piece of plastic
[02:56:50] <JymmmEMC> It was much easier to toss up a 2nd AP
[02:56:50] <eric_u> I didn't wonder why, I just figure they should make it to survive normal household temperatures
[02:57:05] <JymmmEMC> not near a heat source
[02:57:39] <eric_u> it overheats at 73 degrees no matter what its distance to a heat source is
[02:57:57] <JymmmEMC> then replace it
[02:58:08] <eric_u> and let dlink win?
[02:58:40] <JymmmEMC> your the one with high blood pressure over a $40 POS
[02:59:04] <JymmmEMC> Me on the other hand, have full strenght anywhere in the house =)
[02:59:06] <eric_u> they'll be having beers at dlink headquarters, can't have that over $10 worth of coax
[02:59:33] <JymmmEMC> and for $30 more you could have a nice shiny new toy to play ith
[03:00:03] <eric_u> specially if I can get kevin to make me one out of the junk in his basement
[03:02:12] <eric_u> I've had 4 routers, all 4 have had heat related problems
[03:03:55] <jmkasunich> keep your house cooler ;-)
[03:07:25] <eric_u> would you talk to the kids for me?
[03:07:45] <eric_u> actually, there is no a/c so I still have problems in the summer
[03:08:28] <eric_u> the router in the basement/remote antenna idea solves that problem too
[03:11:01] <eric_u> any good pcb mill ideas out there?
[03:15:07] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: Yeah, a ethernet router with wifi
[03:15:56] <eric_u> very funny
[03:16:07] <JymmmEMC> rotf
[03:16:53] <eric_u> this dertsap guy has no self-knowledge whatsoever
[03:17:35] <eric_u> that thread is a train-wreck of massive proportions, I gotta quit reading it
[03:18:15] <JymmmEMC> just take a birthday candle to your router.... that'll prevent you from reading anymore
[03:18:32] <JymmmEMC> heck, just breath on it should be enough =)
[03:18:34] <eric_u> I know, I've thought of that
[03:18:37] <eric_u> but I'd miss you
[03:19:07] <eric_u> weren't you working on a cnc router at one point?
[04:40:16] <Memocjro> Hello to everyone from a new EMC2 user.
[04:47:08] <Memocjro> got onto this problem, if anyone could spare an advice on how to solve it, it would be appreciated
[04:48:37] <cradek> hi Memocjro - you don't have to ask to ask, just ask
[04:48:39] <Memocjro> installed the Ubuntu 8.04&EMC2 Live CD , everything went excellent, but after a day or two Ubuntu proposed some updates, i have installed all updates, but now when i try to run EMC2 it stops with an error
[04:48:57] <Memocjro> http://pastebin.com/mc8b8e67
[04:49:59] <Memocjro> after that i am only able to use my mouse, my keyboard alphanumeric keys are not responding, keyboard is still working, as numlock and caps lock are turning the leds on the keyboard on and off
[04:50:42] <Memocjro> i do not have any hardware to run with EMC2, i only used it to run some simulations for SCARA robot
[04:51:16] <cradek> puzzling - I have not seen this error before
[04:51:41] <cradek> how much ram is in the machine?
[04:52:04] <cradek> Memory: 1029276k/1048128k available
[04:52:13] <Memocjro> 1gb of ram
[04:52:15] <cradek> is 1G right?
[04:52:17] <cradek> ok
[04:52:47] <Memocjro> i checked and double checked, i am runing the rtai version of the kernel
[04:53:05] <cradek> I'm not sure what to suggest. I see that you are running the right kernel. I wonder if you have some bad ram or other hardware.
[04:53:12] <Memocjro> but for some reason it cannot be loaded
[04:53:49] <cradek> [ 1079.346276] EIP is at snd_card_saa7134_capture_open+0xf/0x101 [saa7134_alsa]
[04:53:58] <cradek> did you add or change a sound card or sound card setting?
[04:54:08] <Memocjro> that is a tvtunner
[04:54:21] <Memocjro> but that was present before the updates also
[04:54:34] <Memocjro> the only change i made to the system was those updates
[04:55:32] <cradek> there are several "oopses" here, the first one is related to that tv card. after that there are problems with realtime. have you rebooted after running the updates?
[04:56:13] <Memocjro> yes, ubuntu update application recommended reboot and so i did
[04:56:19] <cradek> hm
[04:56:30] <cradek> can you remove the tv card and see if emc works?
[04:56:53] <cradek> another strategy would be to run the simulated realtime and the normal ubuntu kernel
[04:57:27] <Memocjro> i cannot do anything that involves removing the lid of the computer as i loose the waranty
[04:57:40] <cradek> ouch
[04:58:35] <cradek> did you try to run a TV or sound related application before EMC? Maybe there is a pattern like that.
[04:59:35] <Memocjro> i think i tried to play some radio station with Rythmbox
[04:59:51] <cradek> try rebooting and then not doing that
[05:00:47] <cradek> seems like you have a problem related to that...?
[05:01:24] <Memocjro> did that also, this error i'm not seeing for the first time : ( it's been more than a week of trial and error, same error, only tonight i said to try it out on irc
[05:02:11] <cradek> sorry, I don't know how to help except to suggest you run the sim version
[05:02:33] <cradek> uninstall the emc2 package, then change sources.list to emc2.2-sim instead of emc2.2, then install the emc2-sim package
[05:02:44] <cradek> then you do not need to runthe rtai kernel
[05:04:08] <Memocjro> it's ok, if needed i might even go back to reinstalling from EMC live cd, and just ignore the updates for a while, maybe installing one after another, and see where it goes bad
[05:04:20] <cradek> that's a good idea too
[05:05:02] <JymmmEMC> be sure to reboot between each update (just to be sure)
[05:05:16] <JymmmEMC> echo echo
[05:06:21] <Memocjro> will do that too
[05:07:57] <cradek> goodnight
[05:08:03] <cradek> hope you get it going, Memocjro
[05:09:42] <Memocjro> thank you, goodnight
[05:29:07] <eric_u> I think I just figured out why my last computer got very unreliable: about 10 bad caps
[07:51:53] <eric_u> I want one of those printers that puts your rss feeds on toilet paper
[08:05:47] <K`zan> I used an old dot matrix to print on tp, VERY light pressure and a good ribbon worked out pretty well.
[08:06:04] <K`zan> Don't ask what I printed :).
[08:06:12] <K`zan> Mission Successful, drive breakout now controls spindle through the SSR!
[08:06:20] <K`zan> Nighto.
[08:06:33] <eric_u> cool, good night
[09:19:38] <alex_joni> cradek: seems we were able to "fix" that by preventing saa7134 from loading
[09:20:09] <alex_joni> we = me & Memocjro
[09:20:47] <alex_joni> saa7134 didn't quite detect the card properly, and my guess is it did bad things with ipipe / rtai
[12:58:03] <jepler> micgesEMC: fwiw I used configs/sim and when I commanded f12 and make a move along X I see 0.2 in axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
[12:59:39] <micgesEMC> here its like I said
[12:59:52] <micgesEMC> velocity is sended good
[13:00:21] <micgesEMC> but on joint-vel-cmd and on ddt from pos its different
[13:02:37] <micgesEMC> jepler: try running program, jogging vels are ok
[13:03:44] <jepler> this was an MDI move
[13:04:15] <jepler> same in program
[13:04:25] <micgesEMC> so I don't know
[13:05:13] <micgesEMC> I have correct vels in sim too
[13:05:56] <jepler> that tends to indicate the difference is in your ini files, if sim/axis.ini works as expected and your inifile doesn't
[13:06:16] <jepler> perhaps I'm saying only what is obvious
[13:09:29] <micgesEMC> every max vel in ini is 80 and still the same
[13:10:57] <alex_joni> micgesEMC: maybe the lines you look at are too short for it to reach full speed?
[13:11:34] <micgesEMC> 310mm
[13:12:55] <alex_joni> that doesn't mean much without knowing your machine specifics
[13:12:59] <alex_joni> what accel time you have, etc
[13:15:17] <jepler> I am testing in TRUNK. I modified axis_mm.ini as shown here, based on what micges has said about his configuration: http://pastebin.ca/1292220 then I ran the following program: g21 / g0x0y0z0 / g1x140f500 / m2
[13:15:29] <jepler> during the long move, I get 32770 float RO 8.333333 axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
[13:15:40] <jepler> this is running on a not-quite-new CVS TRUNK version in sim
[13:16:45] <micgesEMC> try with this: http://www.pastebin.ca/1292221
[13:22:55] <skunkworks> woo whoo - friday.
[13:23:03] <skunkworks> I mean Friday!!
[13:23:28] <archivist> grmbl....its Tuesday!
[13:23:28] <jepler> micgesEMC: yes, after modifying that inifile to run on my system I get a different result than earlier -- in my case, 7.936508 axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
[13:23:31] <BigJohnT> I'm in a different time zone cause it is Saturday for me
[13:24:48] <skunkworks> quote of the morning.. 'I installed a chrismas screen saver and now I am getting popups and virus warnings'
[13:25:24] <alex_joni> jepler: try making the TRAJ max_accel same or larger as the axis max_accel
[13:25:28] <alex_joni> I wonder if that's related
[13:27:01] <jepler> alex_joni: I can't do that now, I have to go to work to do my actual job that I get paid for
[13:27:08] <jepler> micges might try it though, if you think it's worth tryin
[13:27:09] <jepler> g
[13:28:06] <micgesEMC> jepler: many thanks, I'll test further
[13:28:46] <alex_joni> jepler: hmm.. thought you might have today off :)
[13:29:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is also close to leaving work
[13:29:28] <archivist> * archivist grumbles about work tomorrow as well
[13:30:01] <skunkworks> Grumbler!
[13:30:19] <micgesEMC> alex_joni: the same
[13:31:20] <alex_joni> micgesEMC: some setting in there must be the culprit
[13:32:08] <micgesEMC> ?
[13:32:11] <alex_joni> hmm.. your base_period is quite large
[13:32:28] <alex_joni> same for servo and traj
[13:34:03] <micgesEMC> base is not used
[13:34:08] <alex_joni> ok
[13:34:20] <alex_joni> then I have no clue :)
[13:34:30] <alex_joni> try starting with sim and see if the problem is there
[13:34:38] <micgesEMC> sim is ok
[13:34:46] <alex_joni> then change all? values till you find one that causes the problem
[13:34:58] <micgesEMC> I'm doing it
[13:35:06] <micgesEMC> thanks for help
[13:35:17] <alex_joni> (not much help :/)
[13:38:35] <micgesEMC> ok I have clue: when I change servo-period from 1000.000 to 500.000 I have : f500 fb-vel=379
[13:39:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks in cradek's direction :)
[13:40:27] <micgesEMC> when I change servo-period from 1000.000 to 2.000.000 I have : f500 fb-vel=477
[13:40:58] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:40:58] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-23.txt
[13:41:09] <micgesEMC> bbl
[13:47:24] <KimK> KimK is now known as KimK_afk
[14:23:20] <alex_joni> yay, winter vacation starts officially now :)
[14:23:26] <alex_joni> bbl
[15:32:34] <Memocjro> could anyone give me a brief introduction to MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT ?
[15:33:03] <Memocjro> as i am a bit confused about what these tow values mean
[15:34:17] <Memocjro> setting a MIN_LIMIT = -300 and MAX_LIMIT = 300 for an angular axis should mean that that axis is able to move 300 degrees left and 300 right?
[15:34:38] <cradek> yes
[15:34:57] <Memocjro> well, as strange it might sound, it doesnt :(
[15:35:04] <archivist> I have much larger values on my A axis
[15:35:34] <cradek> Memocjro: that's not enough information for someone to help...
[15:35:38] <Memocjro> i have modified the limits for the scara.ini
[15:36:20] <Memocjro> when displaying the limits from View -> Machine Limits, there is this red box drawn
[15:38:26] <Memocjro> i don't know how to explain more exactly,
[15:39:42] <Memocjro> i had setup x to -300, 300; y to -300, 300 and z to 25, 300 (Min, Max)
[15:40:05] <Memocjro> that made a box with square base
[15:40:53] <Memocjro> modifying x to -900, 900 (min, max) made a box with a rectangular base, widen up on x axis
[15:41:19] <Memocjro> also if angular, value >360 doesn't make too much sense
[15:41:30] <Memocjro> but i was always off machine limits
[15:42:03] <SWPadnos> angles > 360 do make sense
[15:42:14] <SWPadnos> but not necessarily on your machine :)
[15:42:46] <SWPadnos> consider a spiral being cut with X and A motion, where you want 10 turns of the part
[15:42:57] <SWPadnos> you program A3600 X<whatever>
[15:43:23] <SWPadnos> as for your problem, you may be running into an issue between "joints" and "axes"
[15:43:47] <SWPadnos> a SCARA has 3 joints: R, theta, Z (IIRC)
[15:44:27] <SWPadnos> AXIS will show the limits as a rectangle based on the numbers in the AXIS_0, AXIS_1, and AXIS_2 sections of the ini
[15:44:39] <SWPadnos> err - a parallelopiped actually
[15:45:13] <SWPadnos> this will be wrong, since the SCARA robot actually has a portion of a cylinder as its work volume
[15:45:23] <Memocjro> yes
[15:45:51] <SWPadnos> if you are using the SCARA kinematics, then you don't program the angle directly
[15:46:09] <SWPadnos> you program XYZ, and kinematics converts to RTZ
[15:46:20] <SWPadnos> (T=theta, sorry - no greek chars on my keyboard :) )
[15:47:04] <Memocjro> i am at beginning right now, what i am trying to do is to move that EMC2 AXIS text in such way that i can be able to turn in the machine and machine to follow that,
[15:47:41] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I don't know too mouch about configuring non-trivial kinematics machines
[15:48:01] <SWPadnos> alex_joni may be the best expert here
[15:53:48] <skunkworks> I think the scara kins also let you set the joint lenghts from hal..
[16:05:27] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I'll try to clear things up with Memocjro
[16:05:53] <alex_joni> however we both find it a tad bit easier to talk romanian, so it'll be private (not to spam this channel ;)
[16:31:11] <cradek> http://www.stirlingsouth.com/richard/math.htm
[16:34:13] <archivist> are you going to send answers in?
[16:34:24] <cradek> no of course not
[16:34:33] <cradek> but they are challenging, which is fun
[16:34:48] <cradek> it took me two tries (on separate days) to get #3. that's as far as I am.
[16:36:06] <alex_joni> hmm.. something is borken for touch-off
[16:36:20] <alex_joni> can someone confirm ?
[16:36:28] <alex_joni> running scara as the config
[16:36:43] <alex_joni> home all, then switch to world, jog to anywhere and touch off
[16:36:54] <SWPadnos> yes, #3 can't be done in my head
[16:37:06] <alex_joni> I see the AXIS display gets updated (the program gets moved), but the readout stays the same
[16:37:10] <SWPadnos> (well, neither can 1 or 2, but I can get the proper equation in my head)
[16:37:27] <alex_joni> XYZ don't change to 0 (or whatever touchoff value was used)
[16:37:37] <cradek> alex_joni: is display set to relative?
[16:37:49] <cradek> are you in world mode?
[16:41:37] <alex_joni> yes, it's in world mode
[16:42:04] <alex_joni> ok, switching to relative updates the numbers
[16:42:55] <alex_joni> I still get an "exceeds machine limits" error though :/
[16:44:36] <alex_joni> hmm.. any g0 z<x> movement (in MDI) brings that error
[16:45:29] <alex_joni> I can jog up/down just fine
[17:27:52] <JymmmEMC> http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_11291623?source=rss_emailed
[17:36:34] <alex_joni> cradek: without actually trying them on paper, they seem kinda easy
[18:11:10] <skunkworks> wow - leslie's email should be on the wiki
[18:22:00] <JymmmEMC> ?
[18:28:44] <archivist> get on the mailing lists JymmmEMC then you would know
[18:29:16] <archivist> s/wiki/manual ?
[18:34:10] <SWPadnos> it wouldn't do much good in the manual, since it's about installation of Linux
[19:01:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: hows the unloading coming along?
[19:02:01] <SWPadnos> exactly as planned
[19:02:20] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ah, so it's as if you left it a few days ago
[19:02:30] <SWPadnos> exactly
[19:02:47] <JymmmEMC> but but it only wants a home for christmas
[19:02:49] <SWPadnos> I did move the trailer to a better spot in the driveway though
[19:02:54] <SWPadnos> it has one
[19:02:58] <SWPadnos> in the driveway
[19:03:25] <JymmmEMC> no no, it's cold and freezeing, it wants a warm spot in the garage with electricity and everything
[19:03:37] <john_f> SWPandos: what did you buy?
[19:03:42] <SWPadnos> the garage isn't heated
[19:03:49] <archivist> a toy!
[19:03:50] <SWPadnos> john_f, an HNC lathe
[19:04:01] <john_f> cool
[19:04:09] <SWPadnos> yep. one day it
[19:04:16] <SWPadnos> ti'll be off the trailer :)
[19:04:39] <john_f> Now you need to make a heated space in your garage like I did
[19:05:13] <SWPadnos> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/images/products/21-211-041.jpg
[19:05:28] <SWPadnos> complete with bar feeder and air chuck :)
[19:05:30] <john_f> Of course I don't put cars in there. That is not what a garage if for :)
[19:05:38] <john_f> is for
[19:05:43] <SWPadnos> sadly, half of mine has to be for that, lr my wife would kill me
[19:05:48] <SWPadnos> s/lr/or/
[19:06:31] <SWPadnos> man, they sure cut prices: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=80-242-045&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
[19:06:41] <SWPadnos> I think that one was 600 or more a week ago
[19:07:54] <skunkworks> is that totaly manual?
[19:07:59] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:08:00] <fragalot> I broke my laptop
[19:08:02] <fragalot> and i broke it good
[19:08:05] <john_f> Nice. too bad I have too many projects right now
[19:08:15] <fragalot> I have: no /usr, no /etc/, no /home and no swap.
[19:08:19] <SWPadnos> fragalot, well, if you're going to do something, do it right!
[19:08:23] <fragalot> apparently, I don't even have the harddisk I just booted it from.
[19:08:29] <SWPadnos> sounds like you have no /hard disk
[19:10:24] <john_f> So, I really want to ask a Q about EMC2. If I want more than 4 axis do I need 2 5I20s or can I use a 5I23?
[19:12:23] <SWPadnos> isn't the 5i23 basically a 5i20 with a larger FPGA? (still 3 connectors)
[19:12:29] <john_f> Yes
[19:12:36] <SWPadnos> you should be able to mix and match, if that's the question
[19:12:44] <john_f> but it is not mentioned in the integrator manual
[19:12:54] <SWPadnos> you could probably use one 5i22 also, since it has 4 connectors
[19:13:19] <SWPadnos> ok. I think the driver supports it, but I haven't looked at the code to confirm that
[19:13:35] <cradek> pretty sure you could use two 7i33
[19:13:45] <skunkworks> don't you get 4 axis out of one 7i33?
[19:13:46] <john_f> 5I22 is kind of $$
[19:13:48] <SWPadnos> oh, sure
[19:14:04] <skunkworks> doesn't the new firmware allow this flexabillity?
[19:14:14] <skunkworks> Like cradek said.
[19:14:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:14:27] <jepler> john_f: there are a lot of features in the new "hostmot2" that haven't been fully explained in the manual
[19:14:48] <john_f> Do I get this info from Mesa?
[19:14:52] <SWPadnos> no
[19:15:02] <SWPadnos> the 5i23 is supported
[19:15:05] <jepler> with the new driver, you can set two headers as servos (4 each) and one header as general I/O, for instance
[19:15:08] <SWPadnos> at least there are bitfiles for it
[19:15:12] <jepler> hold on, let me find you a link to what passes for our documentation
[19:15:31] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[19:15:33] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hm2_pci.9.html
[19:15:46] <jepler> "The supported boards are: the 5i20, 5i22, and 5i23 (all on PCI); and the 4i65 and 4i68 (on PC-104/Plus)."
[19:16:02] <SWPadnos> also, for the 5i20 there are firmware images that allow up to 12 servos (PWM+encoder) or 8 PWM and 4 stepgens
[19:16:27] <jepler> having only one header for general-purpose I/O may be a problematic limitation, though
[19:17:04] <SWPadnos> yeah, you'd have to split the cable or something to get access to any pins on the servo header(s) that you want to use as generic IO
[19:17:05] <jepler> then here are files describing the pinouts of the 8- and 12-servo setups of the 5i20: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/firmware/5i20/SVST8_4.PIN?rev=1.1 http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/firmware/5i20/SV12.PIN?rev=1.1
[19:17:17] <john_f> OK then the 5I20 should drive 5 servos, + a spindle encoder input + encoder handwheel input?
[19:17:53] <SWPadnos> sure
[19:18:13] <jepler> yes, it could do all that and still leave the whole third connector free, for instance to put one of the 8O+16I isolated I/O boards
[19:18:20] <skunkworks> question is how many more then axis do you need? can't you use unused encoders and pwm as 'general i/o'.. or doesn't that work?
[19:18:32] <SWPadnos> it works
[19:18:34] <jepler> skunkworks: well, kinda
[19:18:53] <SWPadnos> 5 axes of servos = 5 encoder inputs. add spindle and MPG and you have 7
[19:19:19] <john_f> MPG?
[19:19:27] <SWPadnos> I think the PWMs and encoders get enabled separately, so you'd be able to say you want 5 PWM and 7 encoder
[19:19:31] <SWPadnos> MPG = handwheel
[19:19:35] <SWPadnos> manual pulse generator
[19:19:41] <jepler> skunkworks: the pins have to be in the right place on the isolated I/O board depending on the direction you need
[19:19:41] <skunkworks> jog wheel
[19:19:42] <john_f> got it
[19:19:55] <skunkworks> jepler: thanks
[19:20:01] <jepler> bbl
[19:20:26] <SWPadnos> unless you use an opto-22 module rack, in which case you should be able to do any I/O pattern you like
[19:20:54] <SWPadnos> I haven't tested that yet though, so don't take that as the gospel :)
[19:21:43] <john_f> OK I will need to map out my I/O and see how it looks
[19:22:20] <SWPadnos> the extra pins on the servo/encoder connectors should also be usable as I/O, but you'll need to mess with cabling/breakouts to make that work
[19:23:05] <skunkworks> wow - I think this computer is finally clean..
[19:23:33] <skunkworks> no - I didn't install linux instead
[19:24:49] <fragalot> you just nuked it then?
[19:25:13] <fragalot> actually, I wonder... if you nuke a harddisk via /dev/urandom, is it possible that the random data forms a supervirus?
[19:25:16] <fragalot> :D
[19:25:19] <skunkworks> no - just multible utilities
[19:32:44] <bigcx2> hey guys
[19:32:50] <bigcx2> quick question
[19:33:07] <bigcx2> if i wanted to mirror the linuxcnc hardy archive
[19:33:11] <bigcx2> but not all of it
[19:33:22] <bigcx2> what would be the right way to go about that?
[19:42:11] <bigcx2> trying apt-mirror
[20:29:24] <JymmmEMC> rsync + crontab ???
[20:29:41] <alex_joni> = rsnapshot
[20:30:03] <JymmmEMC> rdiff-backup too
[20:30:20] <JymmmEMC> no idea what rsnapshot is, but get the idea
[20:30:48] <JymmmEMC> fragalot: Sure, it's possible, not very likely though
[20:30:50] <alex_joni> apt-get install rsnapshot
[20:30:53] <alex_joni> and you'll see
[20:30:56] <fragalot> JymmmEMC: :D
[20:30:58] <JymmmEMC> no thanks =)
[20:31:00] <alex_joni> it's basicly rsync + crontab
[20:31:05] <JymmmEMC> ah
[20:31:16] <alex_joni> just that you have a config file
[20:31:23] <alex_joni> to define what dirs you want, and how often
[20:31:28] <alex_joni> and it does the rest
[20:31:36] <alex_joni> (remote/local copy, etc)
[20:31:43] <JymmmEMC> ah
[20:32:10] <alex_joni> one of the nice things is that it uses hardlinks for incremental backups
[20:32:11] <JymmmEMC> I'm going to start using standard distro + subversion from now on.
[20:32:27] <alex_joni> I do daily "backups"
[20:32:41] <alex_joni> but only different things get saved, all the old stuff gets hardlinked
[20:32:43] <JymmmEMC> you look at rdiff-backup ?
[20:33:00] <alex_joni> nope, rsnapshot fit my needs, didn't look further
[20:33:25] <JymmmEMC> it's rsync + incrmental and keeps track of changes so you can rollback at any point you like
[20:33:46] <alex_joni> looks interesting
[20:34:04] <alex_joni> http://www.rsnapshot.org/
[20:35:55] <BigJohnT> wow, I got my Christmas shopping done a day early this year :)
[20:36:33] <SWPadnos> oh hmm. maybe I should get a giant-screen TV
[20:36:47] <SWPadnos> too bad the lathe is still on the trailer
[20:37:13] <BigJohnT> got a plan yet SWPadnos
[20:37:14] <archivist> what did you get for you BigJohnT
[20:37:32] <SWPadnos> BigJohnT, the plan right now is to think about it a bit more ;)
[20:37:41] <BigJohnT> good plan SWPadnos
[20:38:04] <BigJohnT> archivist: I didn't get nothing I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage
[20:38:20] <archivist> aw
[20:38:34] <jepler> BigJohnT: hahah
[20:38:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I say toss a strap around the lathe attached to a tree. Then rev up the RPM's on the jeep and pop the clutch!
[20:38:50] <SWPadnos> automatic :)
[20:38:57] <BigJohnT> then they all moved away from be on the bench there
[20:39:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Fine, nuetral then pop into first
[20:40:02] <alex_joni> if you get a long strap it'll surely work
[20:40:16] <alex_joni> so that you get up to speed before it's tight
[20:40:18] <SWPadnos> if only I had a strong tree near the drveway
[20:40:23] <SWPadnos> oh true
[20:40:25] <alex_joni> plant one
[20:40:37] <BigJohnT> put a strap around your house
[20:40:38] <SWPadnos> and if it's a giant bungee, it'll snatch it waaaay back into the garage
[20:40:39] <alex_joni> what's a couple more years?
[20:40:46] <archivist> SWPadnos, local hire shop and get some shear legs and a hoist
[20:40:52] <alex_joni> heh.. too much looney tunes
[20:41:04] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking of buying a chainfall
[20:41:41] <BigJohnT> don't forget the swing set
[20:41:46] <SWPadnos> yeah :)
[20:41:50] <SWPadnos> swings for fat kids
[20:41:50] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I still say some round rod and a couple of come-alongs.
[20:41:59] <SWPadnos> that's the other idea
[20:42:18] <SWPadnos> I don't know which one I'll use, but I do know I'm not going to decide when it's 10 degrees out
[20:42:26] <BigJohnT> flat the tires and slide it off
[20:42:52] <SWPadnos> I could use an engine hoist to pull up the tongue - make a tilting trailer out oif it ;)
[20:42:56] <SWPadnos> dump trailer
[20:43:26] <JymmmEMC> dont worry, it'll tilt all on it's own
[20:43:28] <cradek> tilting the trailer is easy - just unhook it from the truck and push the lathe back
[20:43:52] <SWPadnos> I'd have to get the control off first I think
[20:44:00] <BigJohnT> yea but you want it to stay in that position when the lathe comes off :)
[20:44:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Actually... You might want to put a floor jack on the backend so you can tilt it down slowly
[20:44:16] <SWPadnos> true - upending the lathe on te ground isn't the desired effect
[20:44:44] <JymmmEMC> and CHOCK THE TIRES!!!!
[20:45:02] <SWPadnos> I did that
[20:45:04] <SWPadnos> 6x6
[20:45:13] <JymmmEMC> I mean when you start to unload it
[20:45:31] <SWPadnos> yeah. I imagine I'll use wedges at that point
[20:46:52] <cradek> floor jacks don't let you move something downward in a controlled fashion
[20:47:04] <SWPadnos> semi-controlled
[20:47:10] <cradek> yeah sorta kinda
[20:47:12] <JymmmEMC> I just got a nice pair of fur lined work gloves for Christmas, but I'm on Calif SWPadnos or I'd give ya a hand
[20:47:12] <skunkworks> cradek, jepler, You even spiral in cutting holes in the gcode.ulp. Awesome!
[20:47:45] <cradek> skunkworks: we got tired of not having drills for those larger holes
[20:47:49] <JymmmEMC> cradek: MY 4 ton jack does... just gotta open it sloooooowly
[20:48:05] <BigJohnT> I see Leslie Newell sure likes the MPG response with EMC
[20:48:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:48:20] <SWPadnos> RT baby!
[20:48:21] <cradek> realtime response is nice
[20:48:28] <BigJohnT> yeppers
[20:49:03] <BigJohnT> wonder why his 8.04 didn't generate the correct charge pump code :?
[20:49:17] <cradek> still looked right to me
[20:49:34] <cradek> hmmmm or is user-enable-out the strobe?
[20:49:38] <cradek> no
[20:49:45] <cradek> user-request-enable is the strobe
[20:49:47] <cradek> I dunno
[20:49:53] <cradek> someone should test it
[20:50:13] <jmkasunich> the guy who is having trouble should test it
[20:50:17] <jmkasunich> halmeter man!
[20:50:20] <SWPadnos> it seemed to work correctly with the G540, but there's a fault input (which makes things a little different)
[20:50:45] <jmkasunich> you can't troubleshoot read hardware without a DMM, and you can't troubleshoot hal without a halmeter
[20:50:57] <jmkasunich> s/read/real
[20:51:10] <SWPadnos> speaking of troubleshooting: http://cgi.ebay.com/Hardinge-Troubleshooting-Guide-Super-Precision-HNC_W0QQitemZ300228512204QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
[20:51:15] <archivist> * archivist likes a real scope as well
[20:51:22] <SWPadnos> cradek, do you have manuals for your lathe?
[20:51:30] <cradek> I have that one
[20:51:38] <SWPadnos> ok. useful?
[20:51:57] <cradek> a lot of it is control-specific
[20:52:07] <SWPadnos> hmmm. ok
[20:52:12] <jmkasunich> what is the copyright status of things like that
[20:52:15] <cradek> doesn't home? check wire 136 for 12v, etc etc.
[20:52:21] <BigJohnT> charge pump works for me on 8.04...
[20:52:27] <SWPadnos> good question. I did notice that it's a copy
[20:52:31] <cradek> jmkasunich: http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/
[20:53:05] <cradek> looks like if there is NOT a notice in it, it's PD now
[20:53:23] <jmkasunich> I should look thru my van norman manuals for notices and dates
[20:53:36] <cradek> if there is a notice, it's PD in 2070 or so, amazingly enough
[20:53:50] <cradek> this web page is great for this kind of question
[20:54:16] <jmkasunich> if it is legal, I'd like to scan them and publish online, so people don't have to pay some ebay dude $60 or more
[20:54:51] <cradek> you might make him find honest work then
[20:55:00] <jmkasunich> hope so
[20:55:11] <jmkasunich> but he'd probably just find different dishonest work
[20:55:15] <cradek> SWPadnos: I have full schematics for the control too
[20:55:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:55:25] <jmkasunich> or continue milking the people who don't know how to operate google
[20:55:33] <SWPadnos> that would probably be useful
[20:55:58] <SWPadnos> the wiring in the lathe housing would be even better
[20:55:58] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich goes back out to hopefully finish xmas shopping
[20:56:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:56:10] <cradek> SWPadnos: it's all nicely numbered
[20:56:19] <cradek> SWPadnos: I ran very little new wiring
[20:56:21] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: compared to the mazak it should be easy, looks like a lot less wire
[20:56:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:56:29] <jmkasunich> no massive blue bundles
[20:56:30] <SWPadnos> I didn't do the mazak ;)
[20:56:45] <SWPadnos> only little black bundles in this one
[20:57:18] <archivist> if all the wires are blue you cant fail to connect to a blue wire you cant faile!
[20:57:31] <jmkasunich> cradek: on that copyright thing - what is "life of the author", if the author is unknown - manuals are made by a collection of anonymous tech writers and drafters at some company
[20:57:42] <archivist> we wired a boat with red wire that way
[20:58:10] <cradek> jmkasunich: surely the copyright holder? whoever it says on the copyright statement
[20:58:14] <SWPadnos> "corporate authorship" is listed differently
[20:58:39] <cradek> hm, I see what you mean: "without notice" + "death of author" = ?
[20:58:46] <JymmmEMC> The author would be the company
[20:58:50] <archivist> some corporates have a nice attitude to copying old manuals
[20:58:52] <cradek> bbl
[20:59:28] <jmkasunich> archivist: the company I'm interested in (Van Norman) is sort of gone
[20:59:43] <archivist> then no problem
[21:00:04] <jmkasunich> what is left (mostly drawings and parts) was bought by a company that earns money by overcharging for parts and manuals
[21:00:06] <archivist> I have a letter from one saying its ok philips
[21:00:09] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Van Norman what? Industrial, Mfg, company?
[21:00:09] <jmkasunich> they won't be sympathetic
[21:00:39] <jmkasunich> Van Norman Company, Springfield 7, Mass, USA on the cover of one manual
[21:00:41] <archivist> did they buy copyrights
[21:00:58] <jmkasunich> Van Norman Machine Company on another
[21:01:02] <jmkasunich> archivist: who knows
[21:01:14] <jmkasunich> I assume so
[21:01:41] <archivist> it amuses me HP cd sellers on fleabay, just go to the website and download
[21:02:02] <archivist> HP/Agilent
[21:03:26] <archivist> I bought out a one man business who copied manuals so I have a "few"
[21:06:42] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunichHeh, yourwebsite seems to have the most info on the company actually
[21:07:03] <jmkasunich> yeah, so if I put manuals there, all but the most google impaired could find them
[21:07:26] <jmkasunich> however, manual sellers (if they own the copyrights) would also find them, and then lawyers would find me
[21:07:59] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich But, it appears that the company still exists (in part), which typical be the holder of copyrights
[21:08:08] <jmkasunich> right
[21:08:45] <jmkasunich> selling parts and manuals for those machines (and others) is a small but steady gravy train for them
[21:08:59] <jmkasunich> if the manuals are public domain, I'd gladly derail the train
[21:09:06] <jmkasunich> if they're not, they'd gladly derail me
[21:09:28] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:10:49] <archivist> I tend these days to wait for an email then copy and place in a subdir known to the person
[21:11:16] <archivist> my index is on the web
[21:11:52] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich http://www.kwik-way.com/cc/
[21:11:53] <archivist> so unless you find and ask you dont know I do copies
[21:12:40] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: Kwik-way doesn't have the milling machine manuals
[21:13:04] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich Doens't physically have them or legally have them?
[21:13:19] <jmkasunich> http://www.repair-parts-inc.com/about.htm
[21:13:38] <jmkasunich> kwik-way bought the automotive tool part of van norman - cylinder boring, brake lathes, etc
[21:13:44] <jmkasunich> RPI bought the milling machine part
[21:15:03] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich "...We furnish not only parts and machines but tooling, training, manuals,..."
[21:15:26] <jmkasunich> which site is that on? KW, or RPI?
[21:15:38] <JymmmEMC> http://www.repair-parts-inc.com/index.htm
[21:15:47] <jmkasunich> I already said that sell manuals
[21:15:59] <JymmmEMC> But they don't have them?
[21:16:02] <jmkasunich> and I say that on my website too
[21:16:33] <jmkasunich> I'm sure when they bought the remains of Van Norman, they got manuals as well as part drawings
[21:17:12] <jmkasunich> if the copyrights have expired, and the manuals are in the public domain, then anyone, including them, can sell copies for whatever the market will pay
[21:17:21] <archivist> jmkasunich, just put a list of what you have, respond if you get any requests, just dont leave downloads open if worried
[21:17:40] <jmkasunich> AND I can put copies online for free (which will make the market pay less)
[21:17:44] <JymmmEMC> Ok, then RPI would be the copyright holder/"author" in this case. It's 75 years AFTER the death of author, but the author lives on so to speak I believe
[21:18:14] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: there's a solution to this, it's called torrents :)
[21:18:47] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: if published without a copyright notice in 1923 thru 1977, then they are in public domain, doesn't matter how long the "author" lives
[21:18:52] <JymmmEMC> 1978 to 1 March 1989 Created after 1977 and published with notice 70 years after death of author, or if work of corporate authorship, 95 years from publication
[21:19:10] <jmkasunich> lol, most of what I have is pre 1978
[21:19:38] <jmkasunich> they stopped making machines in 1981, and for the last few years were just limping along
[21:19:48] <JymmmEMC> even back to 1923, it's 95 years
[21:20:00] <jmkasunich> if published with notice
[21:20:11] <jmkasunich> so I simply have to check for notices
[21:20:22] <JymmmEMC> and by the looks of the ebay manual it has (c) on it
[21:20:29] <jmkasunich> so far I haven't seen any - looked at a couple
[21:20:32] <jmkasunich> what ebay manual?
[21:20:40] <jmkasunich> the one swp posted?
[21:20:48] <JymmmEMC> Yeah it looks like it
[21:20:54] <jmkasunich> that is hardinge silly
[21:20:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:21:29] <SWPadnos> I don't see any (c) on the cover, though there are a few places where there's likely a (tm)
[21:21:44] <JymmmEMC> http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/site_media/item_images/vannormlayout.jpg
[21:22:11] <DanielFalck> jmkasunich: you might be ok, if RPI is selling them. They make their money on parts and machines. It might actually be a service to them for you to have them available.
[21:22:23] <jmkasunich> I have a couple different #12 manuals (or copies of manuals)
[21:22:46] <jmkasunich> DanielFalck: hard to say, and I really don't feel like asking (and drawing attention to myself)
[21:22:47] <JymmmEMC> http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/manuals/van-norman/
[21:22:48] <DanielFalck> I've bought a gear hobber from them and they are a bunch of old guys who used to work for Barber Colman
[21:23:03] <jmkasunich> if PD, I'll someday get off my lazy ass and scan them
[21:23:06] <jmkasunich> if not, well....
[21:23:29] <jmkasunich> hmm
[21:23:33] <jmkasunich> maybe I will ask
[21:23:47] <jmkasunich> actually, what I really want to talk to is some old guy who worked for VN
[21:23:50] <archivist> damned hard work
[21:24:10] <jmkasunich> I recently came across a #16 with a quill, which conventional wisdom says they never made
[21:24:28] <archivist> I wish sane was a bit better for multiple scans
[21:24:29] <jmkasunich> I'm wondering if somebody did a head transplant
[21:25:05] <DanielFalck> http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/manuals/leblond/
[21:25:08] <DanielFalck> that's interesting
[21:25:16] <JymmmEMC> http://www.machineryvalues.com/xdetails.cfm/QN/132489
[21:25:16] <DanielFalck> LeBlond still sells these
[21:25:34] <DanielFalck> I just bought one at work for $80
[21:25:57] <DanielFalck> We sold a machine to a friend and wanted to make sure he had the proper manual for it
[21:26:29] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich http://www.gearengineering.com/history.html
[21:26:29] <DanielFalck> much cheaper on that site
[21:27:01] <SWPadnos> heh - no quill :)
[21:27:26] <cradek> what is the center control with detents on the knee?
[21:28:18] <cradek> oh, some kind of mechanical power feed - bizarre
[21:28:22] <SWPadnos> looks like it could be an auto-feed rate setting
[21:28:26] <SWPadnos> yeah
[21:28:37] <JymmmEMC> http://www.beautomotivemachine.com/servlet/Categories?category=Automotive+Machine+Shop+Equipment+Manuals%3AVan+Norman+Manuals
[21:28:45] <cradek> wonder what all it can feed
[21:29:42] <cradek> knee only?
[21:30:00] <cradek> that would be nice for deep drilling
[21:30:06] <jmkasunich> cradek: which machine?
[21:30:12] <cradek> http://www.machineryvalues.com/xdetails.cfm/QN/132489
[21:30:16] <jmkasunich> the 16 has power feed on table only (X)
[21:30:33] <jmkasunich> the bigger ones have power feed on all axes
[21:30:34] <cradek> ok, this is a 16
[21:30:46] <cradek> I don't see how it works...
[21:31:13] <JymmmEMC> http://stores.ebay.ca/Automotive-Machine-and-Equipment_Auto-Machine-Shop-Manuals_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ5QQftidZ2QQtZkm
[21:36:08] <jmkasunich> sorry, phone
[21:36:21] <jmkasunich> I was just talking to Chuck at RPI, formerly worked for Van Norman
[21:36:41] <jmkasunich> the mill at HGR was sold to Ford in Cleveland in 1956
[21:37:07] <jmkasunich> cradek: what don't you see?
[21:37:11] <JymmmEMC> damn... they still have the records that far back
[21:37:20] <cradek> how does it move X?
[21:38:31] <SWPadnos> unless they're spinning the nut, I don't see how it's done
[21:38:31] <jmkasunich> small motor inside the knee, multi-speed transmission in the knee, splined shaft parallel to the Y leadscrew, splined sleeve in the saddle, with a worm on its OD, and a worm gear around the X screw (along with clutches and reversing gears in the saddle)
[21:39:14] <jmkasunich> the splined shaft is visible in the 2nd pic on that site, under the table on the right of the knee
[21:39:57] <jmkasunich> a shaft sticks out of the knee at the back, drives the spined shaft thru a right angle gear of some sort, worm or crossed spiral or something
[21:40:14] <jmkasunich> the splined shaft comes forward from there
[21:41:10] <SWPadnos> sounds complex :)
[21:41:15] <jmkasunich> it is
[21:41:33] <jmkasunich> amazing how many gears it takes to replace a servomotor
[21:42:06] <SWPadnos> yeah. wires are a much more flexible means of power delivery
[21:42:29] <archivist> till the flexing breaks them
[21:42:31] <jmkasunich> on mine, the feed speed gearbox hangs off the back instead of being in the knee
[21:42:41] <jmkasunich> but the final part of the drivetrain is similar
[21:43:03] <jmkasunich> the spined shaft is replaced by a shaft with u-joints and keyed so it can stretch about 4" as the knee goes up and down
[21:43:28] <jmkasunich> then worm driving worm gear, driving reversing gears, dog clutches, and keyed to the X screw
[21:44:22] <jmkasunich> http://www.quantums.info/vannorm/page11.jpg
[21:45:16] <cradek> holy crap
[21:45:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: click on the photo... http://www.liliputing.com/2008/08/lenovo-ideapad-s10-hits-the-fcc-photos-lots-and-lots-of-photos.html
[21:45:44] <skunkworks> our brown and sharp has one heck of a gear box in it.. No clue how it works. You have a crank to change the spindle rpm and feeds. you each turn shifts to a different gear.
[21:46:13] <cradek> is that the one with 16 gears?
[21:46:25] <jmkasunich> those old machines were flat out amazing
[21:46:32] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, uh - ok ...
[21:46:58] <skunkworks> don't know - have not looked at it in a while. - no the K&T is the 16 gears in the spindle (4 bit shift rails) ;)
[21:48:01] <skunkworks> the brown and sharp is like a bridgeport on sterioids
[21:48:13] <jmkasunich> lots of steroids I bet
[21:48:18] <jmkasunich> is this a vertical?
[21:48:32] <jmkasunich> the ones where the frame looks sort of like a giant thick C
[21:49:01] <archivist> Ive used a 2A was a nice beast
[21:49:35] <skunkworks> yes - vertical
[21:50:16] <skunkworks> you can see just a little bit - upper right http://www.electronicsam.com/images/shaper.JPG
[21:50:48] <skunkworks> * skunkworks should take a few pictures.
[21:51:24] <archivist> well hidden!
[21:51:51] <skunkworks> where's waldo
[21:54:21] <jmkasunich> neat: http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/MillRingLight.jpg
[21:55:24] <archivist> I made a ring light here but it was too dim
[21:56:08] <archivist> and LED colour messed with the web cam
[21:57:14] <SWPadnos> interesting use for a ring light
[21:57:43] <archivist> was trying to make a centering /setup for gear cutting
[21:58:45] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:58:58] <anonimasu> I started making a motor mount for the rotary table today
[22:00:22] <jmkasunich> mill-drill on steroids: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=42-608-012&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
[22:00:32] <jmkasunich> I bet that is stiffer than a bport
[22:00:50] <anonimasu> wow
[22:00:57] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[22:01:01] <anonimasu> that looks stiff
[22:01:21] <jmkasunich> the head looks like a clone of a bridgeport head
[22:01:44] <jmkasunich> I saw it at HGR the other day, but didn't look too closely
[22:08:05] <Dodo> hy
[22:08:12] <jmkasunich> lo
[22:08:46] <Dodo> you are an expert of emc2
[22:08:50] <Dodo> ?
[22:08:54] <SWPadnos> several
[22:08:54] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: rumor has it you can rent these: http://www.rolalift.com/index.shtml
[22:09:12] <SWPadnos> cool
[22:09:16] <jmkasunich> Dodo: just ask your question, if someone knows the answer they will speak up
[22:10:03] <Dodo> I have started some INI file but the rispons in every line is no command found
[22:10:55] <jmkasunich> please attempt to run EMC in a shell (command line), and then copy the command and the messages to http://pastebin.ca
[22:10:58] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: can I tempt you again? http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=06-277-103&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
[22:10:59] <jmkasunich> then post the link here
[22:11:26] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: maybe
[22:11:33] <jmkasunich> if I decide not to buy the van norman
[22:11:56] <archivist> buy both
[22:11:57] <jmkasunich> it is hard to judge size in those pics
[22:12:06] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich not made of money
[22:12:10] <alex_joni> it's only a couple bucks :)
[22:12:20] <archivist> for complete fun buy HGR
[22:13:10] <archivist> that is my version of a pipe dream
[22:13:25] <Dodo> right now I'm not on college so y can't run the files
[22:13:42] <jmkasunich> archivist needs to come over here with a truck (and a boat to get the truck back home)
[22:13:48] <Dodo> but i can send you the files that im trying to run
[22:14:09] <alex_joni> without an actual error, it's hard to find out what was wrong with your system
[22:14:16] <jmkasunich> Dodo: if "every" command is failing, the problem is probably not the files
[22:14:17] <alex_joni> Dodo: did you send those to the mailing list too?
[22:14:35] <Dodo> yes
[22:15:11] <alex_joni> they seem fine, the error must be someplace else
[22:15:19] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: cool stuff: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=10-534-056&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=4&searchNAP=
[22:15:22] <jmkasunich> jepler told you what to do - run it, and then post the actual erro messages
[22:15:40] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: what for?
[22:17:04] <Dodo> you say that the files are ok
[22:17:08] <Dodo> ok than
[22:17:13] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: A axis
[22:17:23] <Dodo> that mean that i'm doing something wrong
[22:17:37] <alex_joni> Dodo: might not be you.. but something is wrong
[22:17:55] <jmkasunich> might be your computer, or the way EMC is installed....
[22:18:45] <Dodo> i run the script on 2 computers and it is the same
[22:19:07] <jmkasunich> how did you install EMC?
[22:19:39] <Dodo> i didn't it came with the linux
[22:19:52] <Dodo> opereration system
[22:20:04] <jmkasunich> you mean, you got a .iso file from linuxcnc.org, and installed that on your computer?
[22:21:27] <Dodo> no the profesor gave me the cd with linux operation system and there was also EMC incorporated
[22:22:04] <Dodo> EMC2 to be precise
[22:22:34] <jmkasunich> so, the professor probably got the .iso from linuxcnc.org and burned the disk
[22:22:44] <SWPadnos> or it's a BDI ...
[22:22:49] <jmkasunich> anyway we can't help you right now
[22:22:53] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: he said emc2
[22:22:58] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:23:03] <alex_joni> there is some emc2 on the bdi disk :)
[22:23:19] <jmkasunich> we don't know: 1) exactly what you are running 2) exactly what command you issued 3) exactly what happened when you did it
[22:23:23] <jmkasunich> we are not good a guessing
[22:24:27] <jmkasunich> the last time we went in to a big guessing game it turned out that the files were corrupt, I think because a windows computer was used to download them or something
[22:26:15] <Dodo> i entered the directory on the computer like this : $emc2 CD HOme/robi/emc2
[22:26:29] <Dodo> this is the basic directory of emc2
[22:27:20] <Dodo> than i soecified the file i want to run like this configs/servo/servo.ini
[22:29:36] <Dodo> and finali this comand show me every line of the hal file like this stepgen.update-freq servo-thread command not found
[22:30:15] <SWPadnos> you aren't supposed to execute the hal file from the shell
[22:30:23] <SWPadnos> which it sounds like you did
[22:30:39] <Dodo> no i run the ini file
[22:30:49] <Dodo> servo.ini
[22:30:51] <SWPadnos> you don't run the ini file either
[22:30:59] <SWPadnos> you run emc, and select the ini file you want to use
[22:31:05] <SWPadnos> or you run emc and specify the ini file to use
[22:31:09] <SWPadnos> like this:
[22:31:17] <SWPadnos> emc servo.ini
[22:31:55] <Dodo> ok than what do i have to do to run a custom configuration written in hal
[22:32:26] <SWPadnos> are you trying to run EMC, or just some other HAL-only thing?
[22:32:54] <SWPadnos> if you want to test loading of a hal file, you may be able to use halrun
[22:32:59] <SWPadnos> man halrun for the options
[22:33:02] <alex_joni> what do you understand by "custom configuration written in hal" ?
[22:34:44] <Dodo> i have a motor with gecko driver and it is working with the wizard
[22:35:26] <Dodo> but because i wile have to do some more comlicated things after i have to do the same thing with hal and ini files
[22:35:55] <Dodo> i made thee files but now i don't now haw to power the motor with it
[22:36:15] <SWPadnos> do you expect to use G-code and therefore EMC2, or do you only need the functionality that HAL can provide (hardware drivers, other components ...)?
[22:36:34] <alex_joni> and no interface
[22:36:48] <Dodo> I need the interface
[22:37:00] <Dodo> axis to bee precise
[22:37:01] <alex_joni> ok, so you want to use all of emc2
[22:37:26] <alex_joni> there are some sample configs included with emc2
[22:37:41] <alex_joni> you might want to look at those, and see what is different from yours
[22:39:17] <Dodo> I have the configuration that is working or should work but i think that i dont now how to run it
[22:40:21] <Dodo> i have an example made by someone else that worked but i cant find the way to run it
[22:40:32] <alex_joni> emc /path/to/your/file.ini
[22:41:30] <Dodo> i trye that aut it isn't working that means that something elese is wrong
[22:42:02] <maddash> !transparent electrodes
[22:43:03] <Dodo> can i send you my so you can trye to run it
[22:43:17] <Dodo> my files
[22:45:54] <jmkasunich> Dodo: if the problem is that you can't run known good files, then sending us your files doesn't help
[22:46:12] <jmkasunich> you need to learn how to run known good files, and then move on to running your own files
[22:46:25] <SWPadnos> hey JymmmEMC, can you pick this up and ship it to me? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250344637582 :D
[22:46:28] <Dodo> ok but how
[22:46:29] <jmkasunich> if you aren't at the EMC computer right now, there isn't much else to do
[22:47:57] <Dodo> ok thanks
[22:48:25] <jmkasunich> is the EMC computer connected to the internet?
[22:49:00] <Dodo> what do you mean by internal
[22:49:04] <jmkasunich> internet
[22:49:12] <Dodo> now
[22:49:12] <jmkasunich> this thing that we are talking on ;-)
[22:49:31] <Dodo> sorry i read something else
[22:49:36] <jmkasunich> no? that is unfortunate :-(
[22:49:56] <Dodo> yes i know
[22:50:03] <jmkasunich> if it was connected, then you could be on IRC while you are actually trying to do things
[22:50:14] <jmkasunich> tell your professor to get some ethernet cable ;-)
[22:50:36] <Dodo> but i have another computer by that has internet
[22:50:46] <Dodo> soo i could do it
[22:50:50] <jmkasunich> that is better than nothing
[22:51:04] <jmkasunich> but it is really good to be able to copy/paste error messages and such things
[22:51:10] <Dodo> the problem is that now it is time of vacations
[22:51:25] <jmkasunich> yes ;-)
[22:51:42] <Dodo> so i cant do anithing the next 2 weaks
[22:52:16] <Dodo> than you anyway now i now where to find help
[22:52:24] <archivist> yes download the live cd and practice
[22:52:26] <jmkasunich> you are welcome
[22:52:34] <alex_joni> Dodo: if you have a PC at home, download the livecd and do it on your pc
[22:52:36] <jmkasunich> have a nice vacation and a happy christmas
[22:52:37] <Dodo> thank you
[22:52:43] <alex_joni> you don't need to install it, just run it from cd
[22:53:10] <Dodo> happy christmas and a New Year full of money and love
[22:54:08] <Dodo> Live linux you mean
[22:54:18] <Dodo> i have it at home
[22:55:08] <archivist> no the live cd from http://www.linuxcnc.org
[22:55:24] <Dodo> yes that one
[22:55:25] <archivist> it has emc2 set up
[22:56:05] <Dodo> yes
[22:57:05] <Dodo> so i could run the cd and try to run the ini file from the terminal
[22:57:26] <Dodo> is that wat you are saying
[22:58:59] <Dodo> i will trye that eee you in a few thays
[22:59:06] <Dodo> bie
[22:59:17] <Dodo> happy christmas
[23:00:34] <dmess> Hi all.... happy almost chrismas
[23:29:17] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I could, but how to ship it?
[23:33:17] <dmess> ship what??
[23:34:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: 770 lbs and I found it NEW for $589
[23:35:18] <dmess> 770 lbs of WHAT??? if i may ask??
[23:35:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Sorry, capacity is 770 lbs, shipping weight is 268, net weight is 248lbs
[23:36:00] <SWPadnos> the capacity is 2200 pounds
[23:36:14] <dmess> ahh so from under a buck a pound to over 2 bucks a pound ;)
[23:36:47] <JymmmEMC> ok $849.99 new
[23:36:55] <dmess> mill?? lathe?? grinder?? granite table??
[23:36:57] <JymmmEMC> shipping $39.99
[23:37:03] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250344637582
[23:37:09] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:37:17] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.cpojettools.com/products/140521.html?ref=froogle140521
[23:38:05] <SWPadnos> oh hey - $40 shipping is not bad
[23:38:11] <SWPadnos> time to go eat though. see you later
[23:38:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: yeah, maybe it might outweight the cost diff