#emc | Logs for 2008-12-20

[00:01:31] <skunkworks> (snow - not penis)
[00:05:03] <eric_u> that's what ... nvm
[00:29:21] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[00:29:21] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-20.txt
[02:44:35] <jmkasunich> note to self: when you face one end of a part, then rough cut to length on the bandsaw - don't cut the faced end off
[02:48:06] <jmkasunich> SWPLinux: I just remembered - capacitors
[02:51:48] <jmkasunich> what other stuff did I say I would bring (that I didn't already have in the truck?)
[02:53:28] <dmess> dude... you didnt???
[02:55:11] <jmkasunich> I was talking to SWPLinux
[02:58:12] <SWPLinux> hmmm
[02:58:19] <SWPLinux> knee pads?
[03:51:19] <JymmmEMC> hey SWPLinux
[03:52:53] <SWPLinux> hi JymmmEMC
[03:53:12] <seb_kuzminsky> someone wanna write up emc2 for Linux Journal?
[03:53:13] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/call-articles-cool-projects
[03:53:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPLinux: Well you must be on the road =)
[03:54:08] <SWPLinux> yep - Cleveland
[03:54:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPLinux: I picked up a Lenovo S10 for $399 out the door... not a bad lil machien actually
[03:54:42] <JymmmEMC> 10.3" lcd
[03:55:02] <SWPLinux> cool
[03:55:10] <JymmmEMC> 2.65 lbs
[03:55:14] <SWPLinux> is that the one you pointed out today or yesterday?
[03:55:20] <JymmmEMC> yeah
[03:56:12] <SWPLinux> what exactly is "WSVGA"? is that 960x600"
[03:56:30] <SWPLinux> - that last "
[03:56:32] <jmkasunich> probably, wasn't SVGA 800x600?
[03:56:55] <SWPLinux> yeah, that's why I figured 960x600
[03:57:07] <SWPLinux> just never seen one like that before
[03:57:27] <SWPLinux> I did see an interesting high res monitor at Costco though - 23", 2048x1152
[03:57:36] <SWPLinux> $399 I think
[03:57:45] <SWPLinux> maybe $299, not sure
[03:58:08] <jmkasunich> I've been droolling somewhat at LCDs
[03:58:25] <jmkasunich> microcenter has an ACER, 25", 1920 x 1200, for $379
[03:58:37] <SWPLinux> the next month or two will be the sweet spot pricewise, I think
[03:58:48] <SWPLinux> that's about the going rate
[03:59:00] <SWPLinux> maybe less if you get a sale
[03:59:19] <jmkasunich> the new video connectors confuse me
[03:59:42] <jmkasunich> there is the good old 15 pin d-shell, then DVI, then something called HDMI, which I think is more TV than monitor
[04:00:20] <eric_u> hdmi is for copy protected video
[04:00:34] <SWPLinux> a lot of monitors have HDMI, and it will eventually be useful if you want to watch HD video on it
[04:00:46] <SWPLinux> eric_u: no, that's HDCP, which HDMI display devices all have
[04:01:05] <jmkasunich> my current TV (which I rarely watch) is a 19" analog, which will soon become somewhat of a paperweight unless I buy a converter box
[04:01:06] <SWPLinux> some video cards and even motherboards have HDMI connectors
[04:03:33] <jmkasunich> I have a DVD player (analog out), but I wonder if I shouldn't just get a dvd reader for my PC, get a nice monitor, and call that my TV
[04:03:33] <eric_u> my monitor doesn't have dvi, just hdmi
[04:03:34] <SWPLinux> HDMI is faster DVI - a single link of HDMI (don't remember whether that's 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3) has at least the bandwidth of dual-link DVI
[04:03:34] <SWPLinux> and the connector is smaller, so the next laptop you get will probably have HDMI instead of DVI or HD-15 VGA
[04:03:34] <SWPLinux> plus no D/A - DVI often has analog output in it also
[04:05:18] <jmkasunich> pretty sure that Acer monitor says D15 and HDMI
[04:05:33] <jmkasunich> so D15 with existing video card and kvm switch, HDMI with the next one
[04:05:47] <eric_u> that's what mine has
[04:06:36] <eric_u> best buy didn't have a dvi to hdmi conversion cable, I was not pleased with their technical competence
[04:06:48] <SWPLinux> you can adapt DVI to HDMI
[04:06:54] <SWPLinux> and vice versa
[04:07:18] <eric_u> I know that, but I needed a signed note from my mom to convince the best buy "experts"
[04:07:23] <SWPLinux> there can be issues with protected content going through DVI, though it's supposed to work
[04:07:27] <SWPLinux> heh
[04:42:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPLinux: 1024 x 600
[04:42:15] <JymmmEMC> 1920x1200 external
[04:43:26] <JymmmEMC> HDMI has DRM built into it, DVI is sorta-kinda suppose to too, but not so much
[04:45:52] <JymmmEMC> Dell E6400 has Dual DVI (docking station) + HDMI (built in)
[04:46:21] <JymmmEMC> Dual DVI as in two DVI connectors
[04:51:16] <SWPLinux> HDMI doesn't necessarily have the DRM built in. that's what HDCP is
[04:51:27] <SWPLinux> all display devices with HDMI should also have HDCP
[04:51:39] <SWPLinux> not all devices that have HDMI output support HDCP
[04:51:45] <eric_u> seems like some early ones didn't
[04:52:01] <SWPLinux> HDCP = "High Definition Content Protection" I think
[04:52:32] <SWPLinux> yeah, and some motherboards and video cards say "HDCP-ready", because you have to have ann OS that uses TPM or some such drivel
[04:52:37] <SWPLinux> on that note, good night
[05:13:03] <dareposte> hi all
[05:13:21] <dareposte> i'm in search of some help with my newly installed limit switch
[05:14:05] <dareposte> installed and ran stepconf to let it be "Maximum + home" limit type, but now in EMC2 using Axis, it will not power on and says it has a 'joint 0 on limit' error
[05:14:35] <dareposte> there is a small check box that allows to override limits, and if i check it then it will master up, but it will not home and faults out with the same error
[05:15:00] <dareposte> i did attempt to set the switch type to only "x home" to try to avoid the limit problem, but it did not seem to help.
[05:15:23] <cradek> it thinks you are on the limit switch
[05:15:29] <dareposte> yeah but why
[05:15:30] <cradek> maybe you need to invert the signal
[05:15:35] <dareposte> i tried that
[05:15:41] <dareposte> halmeter shows my limit to be functioning properly
[05:16:19] <dareposte> the little digital readout also updates properly when the limit is depressed, showing the small arrow like icon
[05:16:22] <cradek> if halmeter shows the (say) axis.0.neg-limit-switch-in is FALSE, you will be able to turn the machine on
[05:16:32] <dareposte> brb
[05:16:32] <cradek> ah, ok
[05:16:44] <dareposte> i will run and check that signal
[05:16:44] <cradek> so when the little arrow isn't there, it should let you turn the machine on
[05:16:53] <dareposte> yes, but it does not let me turn it on then
[05:16:55] <cradek> if the arrow works right, the signal is right
[05:17:23] <cradek> can you check again? if the arrow is not there, machine should come on
[05:17:29] <dareposte> when i press in the limit switch manually, i get a checkbox enabled for override limits (which makes sense)
[05:17:35] <dareposte> okay i will check again
[05:19:00] <dareposte> the arrow is not there, but it will not power up and gives the "joint 0 on limit" error
[05:19:12] <dareposte> i checked the axis0.neg-limit-in and it is FALSE
[05:19:23] <cradek> also pos?
[05:19:23] <dareposte> as well as the axis0.home-switch-in
[05:19:36] <dareposte> position is just a random position, wherever I left it last time i used it i guess
[05:19:58] <dareposte> am i somehow hitting soft limits? I thought those didn't take effect until the machine was homed
[05:20:07] <cradek> that is true
[05:20:21] <cradek> "on limit" does mean it thinks a limit switch is TRUE
[05:20:31] <cradek> did you check both neg-limit and pos-limit?
[05:20:35] <dareposte> curiously it says "joint" instead of "axis"
[05:20:44] <dareposte> would that mean anything to you?
[05:20:47] <cradek> that is correct
[05:20:48] <dareposte> i will check pos-limit, brb
[05:20:54] <cradek> joint 0 is "X"
[05:25:08] <dareposte> all three signals are false on halmeter, and become false when i depress the limit switch
[05:25:15] <dareposte> oops they become true i mean
[05:25:40] <dareposte> all are false, but when I push the limit switch they all become true
[05:25:48] <cradek> so you hooked this one input to both limits and also home?
[05:25:56] <dareposte> there is only one limit switch
[05:26:09] <cradek> ok I see
[05:26:23] <dareposte> it functions for the operator side limit and also the home position
[05:26:36] <cradek> when you try to turn the machine on does it give an error right away?
[05:26:41] <dareposte> yes
[05:27:17] <dareposte> first I have to clear the e-stop which it does fine, but when I hit the power button icon on the Axis toolbar, it errors out
[05:27:24] <cradek> can you put your ini and hal files on http;//pastebin.ca
[05:27:38] <dareposte> sure it will take a minute though, that machine is not networked
[05:27:39] <cradek> I don't understand this behavior - something must be funny
[05:27:48] <cradek> that's ok, I'll wait
[05:27:57] <dareposte> yeah i was wondering if i somehow screwed up the upper and lower limits
[05:28:04] <cradek> did you change those too?
[05:28:05] <dareposte> for the x axis, you have to enter them into stepconf
[05:28:14] <dareposte> i tried a couple of different ones
[05:28:16] <cradek> is MIN_LIMIT less than MAX_LIMIT?
[05:28:32] <dareposte> perhaps not, i will check
[05:28:39] <cradek> ok
[05:33:35] <dareposte> I'm not sure how to check that actually
[05:33:43] <dareposte> i changed the values in stepconf and it still does the same thing
[05:34:09] <cradek> what are the min and max limits?
[05:34:14] <dareposte> I will just copy the ini and hal files over to this PC, that might be the easiest
[05:34:19] <cradek> ok
[05:34:24] <dareposte> -75 and +75
[05:34:28] <dareposte> are the min and max
[05:34:33] <dareposte> with home set at +75
[05:34:55] <cradek> ok, I don't think that explains the problem
[05:35:02] <cradek> I would still like to see the files
[05:35:10] <dareposte> okay brb, gotta find a usb stick
[05:39:18] <dareposte> http://pastebin.ca/1290051
[05:39:29] <dareposte> that's the hal file
[05:40:24] <cradek> ok
[05:40:36] <dareposte> http://pastebin.ca/1290053
[05:40:38] <dareposte> there's the INI file
[05:40:48] <cradek> looking...
[05:40:50] <dareposte> and looking at the INI file I think I see what you were talking about with MIN limit and MAX
[05:41:22] <dareposte> MIN_LIMIT = 74.999
[05:41:22] <dareposte> MAX_LIMIT = 75.001
[05:41:27] <cradek> yeah it can only move .001 mm??
[05:41:42] <dareposte> I wonder if I should omit the negative sign then
[05:42:04] <cradek> what's your travel on X?
[05:42:06] <dareposte> it was autogen by stepconf
[05:42:10] <dareposte> travel is about 200mm
[05:42:22] <dareposte> i had it configured for +/-75mm from axis centerline though
[05:42:26] <dareposte> well that is what was attempted
[05:42:33] <cradek> seems like you missed a - sign
[05:43:12] <cradek> what version of emc is this?
[05:46:37] <dareposte> pre-head
[05:46:40] <dareposte> 2.3 i think
[05:46:50] <dareposte> it was pre-head at the time
[05:46:51] <cradek> so a recent trunk cvs checkout?
[05:46:56] <dareposte> yes
[05:46:59] <cradek> or is it old?
[05:47:07] <dareposte> it was new as of about a month ago
[05:47:10] <dareposte> fresh from cvs
[05:47:14] <cradek> stepconf has had a LOT of bugfixes in the last 6 months
[05:47:21] <dareposte> okay
[05:47:33] <dareposte> it was my error interpreting the values it wanted, i fixed it now but still no dice
[05:47:38] <cradek> you probably ought to update your cvs, but I don't think that's the problem right now
[05:47:48] <dareposte> the new HAL ini file shows the correct MIN=-75 and MAX=75
[05:48:02] <dareposte> still get the same error though
[05:48:07] <dareposte> but it seems to take a bit more time now
[05:48:15] <dareposte> about 1/2 second before the error pops up
[05:48:30] <dareposte> if i'm quick I can hit the home axis button and it will start to home, then fault out with the same old error
[05:48:35] <dareposte> I will copy the new files
[05:48:42] <cradek> ok this is different now
[05:48:54] <cradek> I think you have noise on that signal and it's seeing very short activations of the limit switch
[05:49:06] <cradek> you could set up halscope to trigger on a rising edge of that signal
[05:49:16] <cradek> I bet you will see something
[05:49:47] <cradek> how is the limit switch wired?
[05:50:13] <dareposte> it's a direct wire from the common to the input
[05:50:26] <dareposte> i would buy the noise problem, it runs near the VFD wires
[05:50:31] <cradek> so one side of the switch goes to ground and the other to the parport input?
[05:50:31] <dareposte> which is probably a bad idea
[05:50:36] <dareposte> that's correct
[05:50:46] <dareposte> well through a breakout board of sorts
[05:50:48] <cradek> I bet you need a pullup to +5 on the parport input
[05:50:50] <dareposte> its all buffered IO
[05:51:18] <cradek> check with halscope to be sure that's the problem, then you can be sure you're working on the right thing
[05:51:26] <dareposte> okay I will attempt to do that
[05:51:31] <dareposte> which signal would you recommend checking?
[05:51:47] <cradek> the signal is called max-home-x
[05:52:31] <dareposte> http://pastebin.ca/1290056 there's the new HAL file in case that might be the problem still
[05:53:02] <cradek> ok
[05:53:56] <dareposte> and the INI file: http://pastebin.ca/1290057
[05:54:11] <cradek> good, much better limits
[06:02:32] <dareposte> yeah it looks like there is some noise on the lines
[06:02:41] <cradek> aha
[06:02:45] <dareposte> good call
[06:03:04] <dareposte> i tried re-routing and even e-stopping the vfd, but no luck
[06:03:15] <cradek> not really, it took almost an hour to figure that out :-)
[06:03:27] <cradek> I bet you need pullups
[06:03:30] <dareposte> i think there were multiple issues
[06:03:39] <cradek> yes that always makes it harder
[06:04:09] <dareposte> well the noise occurs when the limit switch is not made, i.e. at 0v
[06:05:02] <dareposte> when the limit switch is made, the board is getting +5v applied to it, and the signal looks nice with no noise
[06:05:13] <dareposte> so maybe the problem is ground noise coupling or something
[06:05:24] <dareposte> stabbing in the dark here
[06:05:36] <cradek> so you saw halscope trigger on the noise?
[06:05:41] <dareposte> yes
[06:05:47] <cradek> excellent
[06:05:47] <dareposte> the noise was full scale
[06:05:57] <dareposte> about 1-2 peaks per second
[06:06:22] <dareposte> i guess the best thing to do is pull out the real scope and see if I can find the problem
[06:06:33] <cradek> and the best thing I can do is go to bed!
[06:06:42] <dareposte> thank you for your help!
[06:06:50] <dareposte> enjoy your slumber, I will be firing up the old HP
[06:06:51] <cradek> you are on the right track - good luck and report back!
[06:06:56] <cradek> goodnight
[06:12:20] <KimK_> dareposte: cradek said "I bet you need pullups", but you said "well the noise occurs when the limit switch is not made, i.e. at 0v" and "when the limit switch is made, the board is getting +5v applied to it, and the signal looks nice with no noise". So maybe you really need pulldowns? Are there any now?
[06:17:52] <KimK_> If you had a 1K or a 470 to throw on just for testing, the results would be interesting
[06:26:07] <KimK_> dareposte: If your board/interface already has pullups available, you could jumper one in and then reverse the sense of your switch to active low both in wiring and in the hal/ini files, if that's easier for you.
[06:40:24] <dareposte> KimK
[06:40:55] <dareposte> The board i am using already had a 1K pullup resistor
[06:42:06] <dareposte> it was wired from Common (5v), through the NO limit switch, and back to the input. The input was normally pulled to ground by a 1k pull down resistor
[06:43:06] <dareposte> adding another 1k pull down resistor straight to ground reduced the noise level such that the machine could power up and home its x axis, but starting the VFD immediatlely would cause the same error
[06:44:25] <dareposte> If I switched to active low, it might be a more effective way to do it, since it would have the full 5V power supply to overcome the noise. The problem then would be perhaps losing home position while on the limit switch due to noise, but that would be easier to deal with I think
[06:46:44] <dareposte> the other option might be to add some noise shunt capacitors from signal ground to power ground
[06:50:47] <KimK_> I wouldn't think a .005 would hurt there, since the signal is coming from a mechanical switch anyway. You could try a .1, but there might be issues. I guess we'll see?
[06:52:57] <KimK_> Just so I understand, when the switch is closed, the input signal is 2.5V? (1K pullup, 1K pulldown?)
[06:54:22] <dareposte> no
[06:54:31] <dareposte> sorry I must have explained it poorly
[06:55:06] <dareposte> the "common" rail is +5v, unbuffered straight from the power supply
[06:55:25] <dareposte> the input is a 74HC series logic chip, pulled to 0v by a pull down resistor
[06:55:50] <dareposte> the factory board had a 1k pull-down resistor, and I added an additional 1k pull down resistor in parallel
[06:56:38] <dareposte> so it is effectively a 500 ohm pull down now, which did help enough to power the machine on
[06:57:19] <dareposte> turning on the spindle motor overwhelms the pull down and gives the error, so it seems to be fairly certain that the noise is coming from the VFD
[06:57:37] <dareposte> I'm thinking that changing the limit from a NO to a NC might solve it, the soldering iron is heating as I type
[06:57:44] <KimK_> And there's another 1K in series from +5 through the switch?
[06:59:43] <dareposte> nothing in series through the switch
[07:01:10] <dareposte> changing to an NC won't solve the underlying problem of poor signal shielding, but it would at least cover it up some
[07:02:12] <dareposte> it's just put together with hookup wire, run in the same area as the VFD motor wire, with no shielding. Not that surprising that I'm having problems now that I think about it.
[07:03:08] <dareposte> 5v signals don't really give lots of room for noise on the lines anyway as compared to 24v signals
[07:03:14] <KimK_> OK, worth a try, we'll see. On the other hand, a 250 ohm pulldown (4 1Ks) is only 20ma at 5V, not unreasonable at all for a non-gold-plated switch.
[07:04:10] <KimK_> Yes, I may be about to experience some of this for myself, as I help a friend convert one of his mills to EMC2
[07:06:03] <Benjamin_Mullin> I have a live CD question if there is anyone around that might be able to help
[07:06:42] <KimK_> I hope to use one Opto board and one Mesa board. We'll see if I have any problem like yours.
[07:07:23] <KimK_> Hi Benjamin_Mullin , don't know if I can help, but what's your question?
[07:08:11] <Benjamin_Mullin> I've tried using it on two separate machines to try and get a feel for EMC (realistically at least a few weeks away from really wanting to use it)
[07:09:04] <Benjamin_Mullin> The first machine only appeared to have a resolution of 640x480 available. The documentation indicates that if it is in 800x600 the vid card is likely unrecognized... if its worse than 800x600 is that the same issue?
[07:09:54] <Benjamin_Mullin> The second machine, which is a PII 450 (so getting fairly old), just stalled at installing hardware drivers. Any thoughts?
[07:16:34] <tom1> sounds like pulldowns needed. look at the signal in the untriggered state before any mods. if it's floating, or easiliy influenced by your bod, then try pulll downs.
[07:18:32] <tom1> or make sure the untriggered state is really connected to 0V of the sensor/switch supply
[07:34:16] <dareposte> KimK_: switching it to a NC switch relieved the problem, but the noise is still there on the ground line. Now if the machine is on the limit it will sporadically fault out, but it runs fine once it's homed and stays off the limits.
[07:35:44] <dareposte> tom1: the untriggered state is connected directly to the 5v rail now, with the triggered state letting the input float. The input "floats" at 0v via a 500 ohm pull down
[07:37:00] <dareposte> On the bright side, the cheapo Omron limit switch I'm using appears to be repeating to about a half thou
[07:37:22] <dareposte> much better than anticipated for a "simulated roller" enco special
[07:37:23] <KimK_> Benjamin_Mullin: I had lots of trouble on the 8.04 release, and even on the 8.10 (so, not an EMC2 problem), with unrecognized video resolution, 640x480, even 320x240, etc.
[07:37:53] <dareposte> Ben: There are guys on here who can help you, but I don't think any are on at the moment
[07:37:57] <KimK_> I tried lots of things, finally had to put in an empty X.conf file, then it seemed happy.
[07:38:16] <dareposte> oh KimK's back, didn't see you on here
[07:38:36] <dareposte> Thanks for your help KimK and tom1, i'm hitting the sack
[07:38:42] <KimK_> Sorry, didn't mean to be gone so long.
[07:39:01] <KimK_> OK, goodnight. Let me know later how it went. Thanks.
[07:39:36] <Benjamin_Mullin> I was trying the 6.06 "Dapper Drake" version.
[07:39:39] <dareposte> good luck on your upcoming install, I'm very interested in a MESA board myself
[07:40:48] <KimK_> Thanks, I'll let you know (eventually). Might fool with it on the table over the Christmas break.
[07:41:21] <KimK_> Benjamin_Mullin: 6.06? Oh, OK. Not sure then. Are you using an Nvidia card?
[07:42:20] <Benjamin_Mullin> Actually I'm not sure. The old machine which didn't even finish loading is an old Gateway machine so its probably a built in video. The other I'm not sure.
[07:44:04] <KimK_> Have you tried Ubuntu 8.04 (with or without EMC2) or 8.10 on the older machine to see if it changes a no-start to a start?
[07:47:32] <KimK_> Or anything really, it would be nice to know if any recent distro would run on your P2 450.
[07:47:53] <KimK_> Just for information's sake
[07:51:03] <KimK_> Sometimes there are start options you can invoke which might help, like noapci, framebuffer, etc., maybe check the start menu for help or options? Worth trying, anyway.
[07:51:37] <Benjamin_Mullin> I have not. I'll try 8.04 in the near future.
[07:51:54] <Benjamin_Mullin> The P2 is the preferred computer anyhow as it is the one in the shop
[07:54:52] <KimK_> I seem to recall that EMC2 ran OK on a friend's P2 750(?) Maybe a little slow on the menus, etc, but OK if not in a big hurry.
[07:55:42] <eric_u> I have it running on a P3 of about that speed
[07:55:56] <KimK_> I could make sure and go back and check with him on that if you wish.
[07:56:08] <KimK_> Well, there you go! Thanks, eric_u
[07:57:17] <Benjamin_Mullin> good to know
[07:57:52] <KimK_> eric_u: What's your machine interface?
[07:58:07] <eric_u> that is important, I'm using a Mesa 5i20
[07:58:23] <maddash> oh no! for the first time in my life, staring at the word "Linux" brought the sound of LIN-NICKS to my head!
[07:58:28] <eric_u> if you are trying to do step/dir generation, that might not be enough machine
[08:05:19] <KimK_> eric_u: What have you got attached to the 5i20? I'd guess a 7i33 quad servo, and, what, a pair of 7i37 16-in/8-outs?
[08:05:44] <eric_u> almost, only on &i37
[08:05:52] <eric_u> one 7i37
[08:06:25] <KimK_> Any DC I/O on the other two 5i20 connectors?
[08:06:36] <eric_u> no
[08:06:42] <eric_u> blank
[08:07:05] <eric_u> didn't really see the need for it
[08:07:16] <KimK_> OK. Keyboard/Mouse/F1/F2 E-stop?
[08:07:39] <eric_u> big red switch/ external electronics mostly
[08:07:45] <eric_u> this is a big servo driven mill
[08:08:01] <eric_u> not really running yet
[08:08:08] <KimK_> Thanks, I was about to ask what kind of machine it was
[08:08:42] <KimK_> How big is big?
[08:08:53] <eric_u> bridgeport series II
[08:09:17] <eric_u> not as big as some
[08:09:32] <KimK_> Hey, nice, I'll have to put you in touch with a friend of mine, also doing a Series II
[08:09:45] <eric_u> mine was gutted
[08:11:06] <KimK_> Hey, whatever gets it in your hands, right? You said servo driven, was that factory? I thought they were all big steppers?
[08:11:25] <eric_u> steppers were removed
[08:12:04] <eric_u> as part of the gutting
[08:12:49] <KimK_> Well, good choice then, going to servos should make an even better machine out of it. Have you run them on the bench with EMC2?
[08:13:13] <eric_u> not yet, got the encoders to work
[08:13:55] <eric_u> gotta get back on it, last year was a monster at work
[08:14:14] <KimK_> What do you do?
[08:14:25] <eric_u> engineer doing research
[08:14:52] <KimK_> OK. And your new servos had encoders already, I imagine?
[08:15:07] <eric_u> yes, I used the encoder output from the drives
[08:16:37] <KimK_> Oh, nice! I like it when drives do that. Solves a lot of problems. Sometimes the motors have resolvers, and even that's OK, then.
[08:16:55] <eric_u> these will even take input from an encoder to drive them manually
[08:17:06] <eric_u> thought about doing that
[08:17:37] <KimK_> It gets better. What make are they? How big are the motors/drives?
[08:17:59] <eric_u> 2 horse, thereabouts
[08:18:31] <KimK_> Did you have to make an adapter, or did they just drop in where the big steppers came out?
[08:18:41] <eric_u> had to machine adapters
[08:18:54] <eric_u> I had one motor that fit, but then I removed it
[08:20:17] <KimK_> I don't remember, is the Series II belt or rigid coupled to the ballscrews?
[08:20:49] <eric_u> timing belts, you can ask the finger on my left hand that I managed to run through them about this time last year
[08:21:30] <KimK_> Ouch. Did your finger recover?
[08:21:47] <eric_u> yeah, it feels a little strange, but no major damage
[08:22:06] <KimK_> You're a lucky feller.
[08:22:16] <eric_u> quick :)
[08:22:24] <KimK_> Ha, that works too
[08:22:42] <eric_u> yeah, I learned something about brushless motors I didn't really know
[08:23:12] <KimK_> If your finger count still equals 10, that's a good thing. What did you learn?
[08:23:31] <eric_u> they aren't really as closed loop as you might think
[08:23:50] <KimK_> Why, what happened?
[08:24:04] <eric_u> there was some problem with my feedback cable
[08:24:23] <eric_u> I was just testing to see if the motor was servoing, and gave the belt a tug
[08:24:41] <eric_u> that got the motor into sequence and it took off
[08:26:07] <KimK_> Ah, and you had some kind of mixup in the U/V/W Hall effect feedback or something?
[08:26:16] <eric_u> bad connection I think
[08:27:20] <KimK_> OK. But in any case, it took off spinning unexpectedly. Well, "May Start at Any Time", I guess?
[08:29:23] <eric_u> in my now expanded experience, they usually don't start up without some help if something is wrong
[08:29:23] <KimK_> What city are you in? (wondering how far from Minneapolis, where my friend's machine is)
[08:29:33] <eric_u> I'm in central Pennsylvania
[08:30:21] <KimK_> Well, that's a long trip. Virtual travel, then.
[08:30:32] <eric_u> yeah, it's too far
[08:30:57] <eric_u> did that drive one time, it was a lot further than I thought
[08:31:16] <KimK_> I'll introduce you if I ever see you both on here
[08:31:35] <eric_u> there are quite a few BP series II owners around
[08:35:03] <Benjamin_Mullin> Minneapolis? Are you in MN too KimK_, or just your friend with the BP?
[08:35:10] <KimK_> Yes, so I am told. Maybe because of the old controls and old (trouble-prone?) stepper drives? Well, like I said, whatever gets them into our hands at a bargain price, right?
[08:35:38] <eric_u> yeah, the old control has made quite a career for some people
[08:36:05] <eric_u> and there are some nice ones around that were hardly ever used
[08:36:26] <KimK_> Benjamin_Mullin: No, I'm in Omaha. My friend with the Series II is in Minneapolis. You're in Minneapolis, then?
[08:36:59] <Benjamin_Mullin> I live in an outer suburb, but work right between Minneapolis and St. Paul
[08:39:17] <KimK_> Do you have a machine in mind for EMC2?
[08:40:20] <Benjamin_Mullin> I'm working on a tiny little mill based on some linear actuators I got from some scrap at work
[08:40:27] <Benjamin_Mullin> about 5"x5" travel
[08:41:19] <Benjamin_Mullin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/26107619@N07/3105878092/
[08:41:20] <KimK_> That should be interesting. Planning three-axis, or more?
[08:41:26] <KimK_> Thanks!
[08:41:41] <Benjamin_Mullin> starting with two, planning on three, then we'll see
[08:42:34] <KimK_> What will you use for a spindle?
[08:43:18] <KimK_> I'm on dialup, I'm still waiting for your pix. I'll go look again.
[08:44:57] <KimK_> OK, pix is in.
[08:45:01] <Benjamin_Mullin> I'm thinking of starting with a rotary tool and we'll see where we go from there
[08:51:23] <KimK_> OK. People who should know tell me that common tools like Dremels, routers, and even die grinders have too much runout for fine work. (Engraving? PCB milling? What?) FWIW. I've never tried to measure runout on one of these. Anyway, you might want a plan B just in case, since your work envelope is small.
[08:55:13] <Benjamin_Mullin> I have heard similar. At the moment I am keeping the cost of entry minimal. I want to see something working first and proceed from there
[08:55:58] <Benjamin_Mullin> It's way past time to be in bed for me though. Thanks for the assistance. I'll probably be around more in the coming days/weeks.
[08:57:03] <KimK_> Yes, that's a point too. Besides, you may find that you have a lot of unwanted play in the actuators, etc, that might be hard to remedy. In that case, maybe a Dremel is good enough?
[08:57:16] <KimK_> Oops, too slow
[08:58:32] <KimK_> eric_u: It's probably late enough for me too. Thanks for jumping in.
[13:15:49] <F1514> been so long
[13:16:24] <F1514> last time ive here, some one has problem with rail-metal-crack
[13:16:34] <F1514> ..i have the result for that
[13:16:46] <F1514> ..if not too late
[13:18:47] <F1514> ok, made 3 drill hole, on the side of cracked-metal, and manage to patch a 3-BOLT_strong_steel on them
[13:19:46] <F1514> these 3 Bolt would prevent the rail-metal to tear apart when the heavy load being put on the edge of the crack
[13:21:11] <F1514> then with the hair crack, u should give it a glue... these glue prevent water to go in there and develop Nasty RUST in there
[13:22:40] <F1514> Nasty-Rust would make the crack WIDER, just like a Tree-Root on the floor...
[13:24:09] <F1514> Very strong...
[13:24:11] <F1514> :)
[13:25:14] <F1514> 3 drill hole would shape like a triangle.... mustly like a LINE
[13:26:06] <F1514> like this . ' . okey this is triagle
[13:26:32] <F1514> or ' . '
[13:27:14] <anonimasu> ?
[13:27:21] <F1514> if u grinding the Bolt heat, it would as good as new again
[13:27:29] <F1514> :)
[13:27:36] <F1514> any question
[13:27:44] <F1514> te he he
[13:28:03] <anonimasu> I dont get anthing of what you just said
[13:28:15] <archivist> he seems to be re inventing common knowledge
[13:28:28] <anonimasu> drilling out cracks?
[13:28:39] <archivist> plating cracks
[13:29:24] <archivist> * archivist points to liberty ships
[13:29:27] <F1514> Metal Rail... that almost break
[13:29:59] <F1514> (come on, i just trying to be usefull here...)
[13:31:22] <F1514> ? now i also confuse on plating crack?
[13:34:37] <F1514> nevermind.. :>
[13:37:05] <F1514> good to be here, though
[13:37:29] <archivist> http://forum.doityourself.com/welding-metalworking/317774-hairline-aluminum-crack-repair.html
[13:39:05] <F1514> :)
[13:40:58] <anonimasu> bbl
[13:45:05] <fenn> * fenn was thinking electroplating
[13:45:18] <F1514> thin plate of aluminum
[13:45:25] <F1514> i see
[13:46:34] <F1514> is it would nice est if we replace the plate, or hot-cast one
[13:47:20] <F1514> but all have nice result, (fast & reliable)
[13:49:17] <archivist> not always reliable if the plate drill holes create stress raising points
[13:50:25] <F1514> might be :)
[13:52:17] <F1514> how about made new one WITH already-have-home-made-CNC, since aluminum is a soft metal
[14:12:27] <F1514> gtg.. thx for all, have a nicest day.
[14:12:29] <F1514> :)
[15:32:10] <micges> hello all
[15:35:00] <micges> I have spindle with changeable tool pockets. how can I control it with emc ?
[15:35:33] <micges> can't find any info about it
[19:52:44] <eric_u1> sometimes I think people connect/leave the room for entertainment
[19:52:57] <toastydeath> it's a club, do you want to join
[19:53:55] <eric_u1> micges asked a question about toolchangers back 4 hours ago, and nobody responded
[19:58:06] <DanielFalck> I read back on the irc logs quite a bit, so being online isn't always necessary
[19:58:26] <eric_u1> did you make your dropouts?
[19:58:38] <DanielFalck> working on them now
[19:58:44] <DanielFalck> not at this very moment
[19:59:15] <eric_u1> what kind of droputs are they? SS?
[20:00:13] <DanielFalck> eric_u1: private IM
[20:00:33] <DanielFalck> is it showing up?
[20:00:58] <eric_u1> yeah
[20:14:16] <BigJohnT> eric_u1: except in my case when the string breaks out to the highway I loose my internet connections and it drops out without my telling it to...
[20:18:00] <eric_u1> BigJohnT: I'm pretty sure you do it for fun
[20:19:00] <BigJohnT> fun is shooting the squirrels that chew the string in two :)
[20:28:33] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNPTofQksJw
[20:31:24] <eric_u1> somewhere between installing a new flash player and trying to get vmware server to work, I've lost the ability to watch youtube videos
[21:37:39] <skunkworks> http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=541739&postcount=123
[21:39:12] <alex_joni> hey samco
[21:39:18] <alex_joni> how's he servo running?
[21:44:41] <skunkworks> I will be milling it soon.
[21:44:48] <skunkworks> I have the flue
[21:44:49] <skunkworks> flu
[21:45:14] <skunkworks> alex_joni: how is the apartment coming?
[21:53:36] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I'm on the road ;)
[21:53:41] <alex_joni> right now in austria
[21:54:15] <skunkworks> nice - you travel a ton :)
[21:54:15] <alex_joni> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=sankt+poelten&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=12&g=sankt+poelten&iwloc=addr
[21:59:24] <skunkworks> alex_joni: pretty
[22:00:47] <eric_u1> the problem with emc is the expectation that it comes with free linux support
[22:01:07] <anonimasu> agreed
[22:01:30] <eric_u1> ubuntu support is pretty good
[22:03:21] <alex_joni> and there's even professional (as in paid) support for it
[22:03:57] <DanielFalck> the thing that a lot of folks don't think about is Mach only has 1 developer
[22:05:17] <eric_u1> I've always figured Mach would die as soon as Art quit. But then he quit and it's still going
[22:05:45] <eric_u1> but I'm not sure if it can keep things up, bill gates could kill it tomorrow with an update
[22:07:34] <eric_u1> I wonder if the guy with mesa bootup issues ever figured things out, I have the last post on his thread
[22:10:44] <skunkworks> alex_joni: http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=541739&postcount=123
[22:10:46] <skunkworks> oops
[22:11:00] <skunkworks> alex_joni: http://imagebin.ca/img/BaUwDpQ.png
[22:11:03] <skunkworks> final
[22:12:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni only cares about finished boards :)
[22:12:19] <dmess> what is it for?
[22:12:21] <alex_joni> and it's not final until you tweaked out all magic smoke
[22:12:25] <alex_joni> dmess: servo DC
[22:12:35] <dmess> gotcha
[22:14:22] <anonimasu> skunkworks: wow, that's a very uninformed post
[22:15:40] <jepler> skunkworks: hey, special price today only: emc2 2.2.8 for $100. paypal your payment to jepler@unpy.net and I'll put the 26 floppies in the mail on jan 4
[22:15:48] <skunkworks> yey
[22:15:51] <skunkworks> :)
[22:16:02] <alex_joni> http://i42.tinypic.com/2cmufr8.jpg
[22:16:41] <skunkworks> heh
[22:16:48] <DanielFalck> what really gets me is someone complaining about there not being a 'forum' on a forum
[22:18:07] <skunkworks> people don't do thier own research anymore. (coming from someone that just asked what features mach has over emc) ;)
[22:18:34] <jepler> well, for starters, "emc" is one char shorter than "mach", so it can be transmitte 75% faster
[22:18:41] <skunkworks> I wanted it from his perspective
[22:18:49] <skunkworks> heh
[22:18:50] <jepler> oh well I dunno then
[22:20:10] <anonimasu> one thing that I feel is lacking with emc is a good set of default cycles :)
[22:20:23] <anonimasu> like for cutting a stub or a hole..
[22:20:43] <skunkworks> screen editor is what I was thinking :)
[22:21:06] <DanielFalck> a shiny box for a cd to come in- that's what's needed
[22:21:12] <anonimasu> the heidenhain is a wonderful workshop control for that..
[22:21:16] <skunkworks> (I don't want it - it is what most spout)
[22:21:30] <anonimasu> hacking togther quick jobs like making holes and stuff is insanely fast..
[22:22:04] <skunkworks> we should come up with a list. 1. receipt for $150 2. box with cd...
[22:22:06] <DanielFalck> anonimasu- if you could bet some screen shots or docs on how it's done and put them on the wiki, we could help
[22:22:06] <anonimasu> like set up tool define the cycle.. and L X0 Y40 FMAX M99
[22:22:29] <anonimasu> on a heidenhain control?
[22:22:33] <anonimasu> http://i42.tinypic.com/2cmufr8.jpghave a ko
[22:22:33] <DanielFalck> yes
[22:22:37] <anonimasu> err sorry..
[22:22:43] <dmess> if you guys make it conversational im GONE
[22:22:44] <anonimasu> their manuals are avaiable for download
[22:23:11] <DanielFalck> we'll put a check box on it for you dmess :)
[22:23:22] <dmess> ive run them all back ti the TNC150
[22:23:23] <anonimasu> dmess: everyone dosent own catia.
[22:23:29] <DanielFalck> [] apt [] conversational
[22:23:46] <anonimasu> DanielFalck: just a sec I'll throw you a link
[22:23:53] <dmess> ill take APT over heinenhien any day
[22:24:09] <DanielFalck> it's snowing like crazy here, I got time....
[22:24:33] <anonimasu> DanielFalck: pm
[22:26:17] <anonimasu> dmess: I like being able to hack stuff togther without a full keyboard
[22:26:46] <skunkworks> DanielFalck: where are you located?
[22:26:50] <dmess> so learn g codes... its actually quite easy
[22:27:00] <anonimasu> dmess: did you miss the full extent of what I said?
[22:27:12] <skunkworks> qbasic made a lot of gcode for me :)
[22:27:14] <dmess> i can out drive many in g-codes
[22:27:28] <DanielFalck> near Portland, Oregon
[22:27:50] <dmess> all of Canada is being hit with CaCa
[22:28:42] <dmess> -10C here today and -27C 6 hrs north at my dads place
[22:30:30] <dmess> -2 degree drop per 100 km straight north
[22:30:49] <skunkworks> it is going to get bitterly cold here tomorrow
[22:30:58] <dmess> sorry 3 degrre drop
[22:31:22] <dmess> where are you Skunk??
[22:33:06] <skunkworks> trempealeau WI
[22:33:21] <dmess> http://www.theweathernetwork.com/index.php?product=weathermaps&pagecontent=weathermaps&maptype=act
[22:33:27] <skunkworks> near lock and damn #6
[22:34:27] <dmess> http://www.theweathernetwork.com/index.php?product=weathermaps&pagecontent=weathermaps&maptype=sys the jet stream has hit the mexican border on this one
[22:36:17] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/house/view1.JPG
[22:37:00] <dmess> i see no snow??
[22:37:36] <dmess> is it all remotely operated??
[22:37:47] <dmess> as in no local jobs
[22:41:04] <anonimasu> dmess: fast or not, defining and calling a hole pocketing cycle is faster then programming it by hand..
[22:41:50] <dmess> depends on how you deal with By hand??
[22:42:08] <anonimasu> less pushes of any keys..
[22:42:42] <dmess> but i like the ABSOLUTE tool control of My way better...
[22:42:48] <eric_u1> anyone remember how to do an automated setup of x in ubuntu?
[22:43:18] <dmess> Heidy dont ask where should i plunge and how... it just does it
[22:43:38] <eric_u1> nvm, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[22:43:59] <anonimasu> or you could just do the ramping yourself and just call up the cycle withput any plunge.
[22:44:11] <anonimasu> ramping/plunging/whatever
[22:44:53] <alex_joni> http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de/forumupload/uploadFiles2008/27642_156_161220083227.jpg
[22:44:53] <anonimasu> dmess: either way pocketing a 10" hole with a 10mm endmill takes quite a bit of time to write in g-code
[22:44:56] <eric_u1> I suppose I should upgrade my ubuntu version
[22:44:59] <alex_joni> http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de/forumupload/uploadFiles2008/27642_156_171220083232.jpg
[22:45:21] <DanielFalck> that looks like a 'real' machine
[22:45:41] <anonimasu> dmess: how many lines of g-code do you think it would take?
[22:45:43] <eric_u1> it's just a batch of sheet metal around a bench mill
[22:46:11] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: one of the many 'real' users ;)
[22:46:13] <eric_u1> It's not a real machine until there is a cab for the operator
[22:46:23] <dmess> whats the tool change time on that chip to chip??
[22:46:32] <DanielFalck> stuart has some 'real' machines
[22:46:38] <alex_joni> dmess: not mine
[22:46:41] <eric_u1> that's a fact
[22:46:53] <eric_u1> that machine needs a green background
[22:46:55] <dmess> oh i see...
[22:47:07] <anonimasu> and fullscreen emc :)
[22:47:33] <eric_u1> yeah, but it's cooler to notice ubuntu on the operator's screen
[22:47:35] <DanielFalck> maybe there should be a category in the wiki for 'manly man machines that don't run steppers ' :)
[22:47:35] <dmess> that machine can chip to chip t/c in under 5 seconds
[22:48:28] <dmess> i had 3 DZ 16's at 1 place i played at
[22:48:39] <eric_u1> an mpg would be nice
[22:48:45] <anonimasu> if I ever build a machine I'll make the control housing round on top.
[22:48:57] <anonimasu> it's a too great place to stick tools on otherwise ;)
[22:49:03] <dmess> they had 2 spindles and the same t/c system no just buttons
[22:49:09] <eric_u1> then you'd hate yourself
[22:49:13] <anonimasu> and calipers
[22:49:24] <alex_joni> make it angled
[22:49:28] <anonimasu> haha yeah
[22:49:46] <anonimasu> maybe I should just make a tool shelve on the side of the control for tool holders
[22:49:47] <eric_u1> I've resolved to start keeping my tools in the toolbox
[22:50:01] <alex_joni> they really nailed it for the robots I work with.. the cabinet is ~2.3m high
[22:50:07] <alex_joni> so no chance to put things on top
[22:50:08] <anonimasu> oh.. I mean collet chucks..
[22:50:10] <eric_u1> that works too
[22:50:43] <eric_u1> actually 2.5 meter tall cabinets would reduce the frustration that rounded top cabinets would cause
[22:50:53] <anonimasu> I'm going to make something where I can stick tooling into..
[22:51:03] <anonimasu> im one of the poor guys without a toolchanger
[22:51:24] <dmess> i had a 6 " face mill snap the bolt and danc over the fixture towards me and into the chip bin on those machines once
[22:51:27] <alex_joni> well.. off to bed for me, another drive tomorrow
[22:51:29] <alex_joni> see you
[22:51:37] <anonimasu> night alex
[22:51:43] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:51:51] <eric_u1> there seems to be a circuit board on top of that thing
[22:52:08] <eric_u1> and a clear plastic mouse
[22:52:11] <dmess> anon.. winerack type tool changer
[22:52:59] <anonimasu> I need to throw up cash for a spindle encoder and a vfd first
[22:53:15] <anonimasu> or a vfd and some time to hack togther a macro to position the spindle..
[22:53:36] <anonimasu> no retainer knob drawbar on my machine either..
[22:54:04] <dmess> i got the c6 board from pc4cnc
[22:54:25] <anonimasu> and a 7.5kw vfd is not cheap :/
[22:54:46] <dmess> mine is 5.5
[22:55:01] <dmess> single phase??
[22:55:04] <anonimasu> no
[22:55:09] <anonimasu> three phase
[22:55:18] <dmess> well that should help
[22:55:26] <anonimasu> not really
[22:55:35] <anonimasu> they are still a bit over 1000$
[22:55:37] <dmess> i got my single for gatuaties
[22:55:47] <eric_u1> i.e., it's stolen
[22:55:47] <dmess> gr
[22:56:02] <anonimasu> eric_u1: for $1000 ?
[22:56:10] <eric_u1> no, for gratuities
[22:56:13] <anonimasu> hehe :)
[22:56:15] <dmess> no... just old surplus and out the back by the owner
[22:57:01] <dmess> she's a doll ... dont have a clue wht her company does
[22:57:06] <eric_u1> wonder if my boss would give me the fatigue machine we aren't using
[22:57:19] <dmess> and she likes it that way... go figure
[22:57:34] <anonimasu> dmess: well it makes profit isnt that nice?
[22:57:35] <anonimasu> :p
[22:57:43] <anonimasu> do you really need to know more :p
[22:57:50] <dmess> what sorta fatigue m/c? k1c'S
[22:58:00] <eric_u1> it was custom built for NASA
[22:58:09] <eric_u1> by a company that is now MTS
[22:58:12] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:58:45] <eric_u1> it was used on the Saturn V project for high temp fatigue/creep tests
[22:59:37] <dmess> WOW there would be some awsome sensor and load cells on that...
[22:59:45] <eric_u1> no, just a frame
[22:59:52] <dmess> shit...
[23:00:02] <eric_u1> all that stuff is obsolete anyway
[23:00:11] <eric_u1> I have the load cells somewhere
[23:00:40] <dmess> its a museum piece in 1 chunk
[23:01:58] <eric_u1> the last experiment they used it for lasted one month for a single load cycle
[23:04:18] <dmess> our landing gear in 300M material fail a K1C test in just over an hour in aermet 100 they run overnight and go 23 - 30 hrs
[23:05:22] <dmess> and thats why the navy wants our nose gear for the f18 e/f/g
[23:13:29] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=541777&postcount=127
[23:15:47] <DanielFalck> I wonder which 'real thing' he refers to?
[23:15:55] <skunkworks> no clue
[23:16:39] <anonimasu> heh..
[23:16:48] <anonimasu> he thinks cnc machines shouls act like windows programs probably..
[23:18:06] <DaViruz> mach user interface is very clear?
[23:23:35] <eric_u1> he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer
[23:24:11] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:25:02] <anonimasu> DaViruz: customizable..
[23:25:29] <eric_u1> I suspect that most people find it simpler
[23:27:13] <anonimasu> :)
[23:29:17] <eric_u1> my emc machine is not having network problems - joy
[23:29:58] <castle> Hi, does anyone have knowledge or experience compiling emc2?
[23:30:12] <eric_u1> I'm rusty on the subject
[23:31:01] <eric_u1> do you want to compile cvs?
[23:31:46] <castle> Hi Eric, getting a compile/linker error in the hal.so library of duplicate symbols
[23:32:01] <eric_u1> from cvs?
[23:32:33] <castle> no, downloaded source from a tarball
[23:33:37] <eric_u1> that's a tough one
[23:33:44] <eric_u1> which version?
[23:33:55] <castle> looking at purchase of a CNC mill for the company but wanted to try the software first
[23:34:32] <eric_u1> install from liveCD, anything else is madness :)
[23:35:02] <eric_u1> maybe I should say, will soon lead to madness
[23:36:31] <eric_u1> was there a special reason to build from a tarball?
[23:37:20] <eric_u1> with the liveCD, you can play with the software and not even install to the hard drive
[23:37:36] <eric_u1> did that at work, drove steppers around and everything, no install
[23:37:37] <castle> not really, looking at the Sherline CNC mill and trying to save about 1K
[23:38:59] <eric_u1> if you have a reasonably fast Internet connection, the liveCD is the way to go then
[23:39:45] <castle> plus have a few spare machines with most of the support software in place, but I like your suggestion. Do you have a URL/source for an iso image?
[23:40:27] <eric_u1> linuxcnc.org look up at the left hand corner
[23:41:08] <castle> does that CD require any real-time stuff such as RTAI installed prior to use?
[23:41:08] <dmess> the live cd is pretty bullet proof my 15 yr old son has done it a few times
[23:41:20] <dmess> its ALL there
[23:41:23] <eric_u1> no, it runs rtlinux standard
[23:42:05] <eric_u1> one of the best ways to get an RTAI install without tears
[23:42:52] <castle> sounds like a plan, has anyone run it with the Sherline CNC mills?
[23:43:52] <dmess> i agree.. i remember trying to POUND emc on a redhat system way back when... worked for monts and it never did work CORRECTLY... then the live cd caught up to me
[23:43:56] <eric_u1> I thought there was a config in there for the sherline, but I could be wrong
[23:44:10] <dmess> i think its there...
[23:44:23] <BigJohnT> the config wizard has a sherline config
[23:44:44] <BigJohnT> castle: start with the short getting started guide
[23:45:09] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf
[23:45:56] <castle> thanks for info, our company does flight sim stuff (www.lfstech.com) and we've been getting a lot of inquires for hardware thingies and looks like 2009 we'll add some support in that area
[23:46:10] <BigJohnT> even if your on dial up there are instructions in the getting started guide to download the live cd
[23:46:54] <BigJohnT> I would not get a hobby mill for production work...
[23:48:08] <BigJohnT> cool stuff your working on
[23:51:37] <castle> most of it is small panels, medium sized parts, knobs, gears, etc, it look like the Sherline would be a good starting point. Comments?
[23:52:26] <dmess> looks like you need it to do alot a work???
[23:53:05] <dmess> a sherline is not a bridgeport...
[23:53:08] <castle> we hope so
[23:53:49] <dmess> you might be under buying the machine
[23:54:05] <castle> my machinist has a bridgeport, unfortunately it is an older setup, with no CNC capability
[23:54:22] <dmess> it till you do it
[23:55:24] <dmess> it would be better to retro the B/P than invest in a sherline... its JUST a better machine and spindle
[23:56:11] <anonimasu> agreed
[23:56:12] <dmess> and all $$ can go to the retro bcz you already own the machine
[23:56:37] <eric_u> I never liked the idea of a BP retro on a working manual machine
[23:56:48] <anonimasu> if you want to make and sell stuff you need a machine that can make it fast enough and easily enough
[23:57:33] <anonimasu> and even if you dont make a profit making something on a better machine is less frustrating
[23:57:56] <dmess> throw ball screws in... i had a quote for precision ground 100$ / meter
[23:58:06] <anonimasu> that's a good deal
[23:58:15] <eric_u> that's why old BP cnc is a good idea, nice ballscrews
[23:58:21] <dmess> come on/... lets grab a brain and think
[23:58:38] <castle> my expertise is software and flying, sounds like I need to do a bit more research
[23:59:33] <dmess> well in hard machines and some flying...
[23:59:43] <eric_u> a BP or similar size knee mill is actually the perfect size for instruments
[23:59:58] <dmess> what do you fly?