#emc | Logs for 2008-12-09

[00:02:06] <dave_1> I seem to be pretty clueless .... strace didn't go anywhere
[00:03:19] <dave_1> $ /usr/bin/strace /usr/weber/bin/synergy > trace.out
[00:03:27] <dave_1> produces command not found
[00:04:31] <dave_1> Oh duh...
[00:04:33] <dave_1> wait
[00:06:54] <dave_1> OK after I finally get the path right I still get command not found
[00:09:40] <SWPadnos> is synergy a completely standalone program, or does it need anything in the path?
[00:10:08] <SWPadnos> (for example, does it use any libraries that they distribute?)
[00:13:24] <dave_1> I think it uses lib32
[00:13:53] <dave_1> I'm trying to run md5sum on the disk but can't get the cdrom syntax right
[00:14:18] <SWPadnos> is /usr/bin not in your path?
[00:14:30] <dave_1> apparently not
[00:14:40] <SWPadnos> that's a little strange
[00:14:44] <dave_1> not a very clean install
[00:14:52] <SWPadnos> ?
[00:15:06] <SWPadnos> did you reinstall or upgrade?
[00:15:16] <eric_u1> he randomly deleted files
[00:15:25] <SWPadnos> oh hey, fligths to Bangkok only $1190
[00:15:29] <SWPadnos> flights
[00:15:47] <dave_1> but who wants to join the revolution
[00:16:30] <SWPadnos> you saying' you want a revolution? :)
[00:16:56] <eric_u1> I want to go ride my bike in India
[00:17:32] <dave_1> seems to me there has been rioting, etc in Bangkok
[00:17:52] <SWPadnos> oh. maybe that's why the flights are cheap :)
[00:18:09] <dave_1> where are the default paths set?
[00:18:10] <SWPadnos> (I wasn't looking for flights there, I just got a low fare update to BKK)
[00:18:13] <eric_u1> I thought I saw something about flights only taking off from military bases
[00:18:24] <SWPadnos> /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile maybe
[00:18:30] <eric_u1> maybe I have the wrong country
[00:18:53] <dave_1> not tht I really care .. I need to the synergy running so I can get something done
[00:19:10] <eric_u1> thing is, I can curse pretty fluently in Hindi
[00:19:11] <dave_1> need to get ...
[00:20:49] <eric_u1> dave_1: what machine are you working on?
[00:21:03] <dave_1> amd 64 dual
[00:21:14] <eric_u1> iron I mean
[00:21:50] <dave_1> this is a desktop system ... non-rt just for sim and cad
[00:22:03] <eric_u1> I see, you're here for general linux support :)
[00:22:08] <dave_1> eventually this cpu will go on the lathe
[00:22:16] <dave_1> yep ..
[00:22:30] <dave_1> but of course will get rt for that
[00:22:48] <eric_u1> what lathe?
[00:22:56] <dave_1> junker jet
[00:23:45] <SWPadnos> huh: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=497025&page=3
[00:24:10] <dave_1> bbl
[00:24:14] <dave_1> tnx
[00:24:48] <SWPadnos> see you
[00:26:27] <eric_u1> that's quite a list, but the executive summary would be much shorter
[00:27:21] <eric_u1> I'm going to set up my router at work so I can use Pro/E and Solidworks from home
[00:27:29] <SWPadnos> that looked like the executive summary to me :)
[00:27:41] <SWPadnos> remote desktop?
[00:27:46] <eric_u1> yeah
[00:27:49] <SWPadnos> have fun with that
[00:28:06] <eric_u1> have you tried it from linux?
[00:28:09] <SWPadnos> no
[00:28:28] <SWPadnos> I think a friend tried to set it up for SW, but it was just waaaay too slow
[00:28:38] <eric_u1> that could be
[00:28:41] <SWPadnos> could be wrong, and it could have been a while ago. I don't remember the specifics
[00:28:52] <eric_u1> you can lower the resolution
[00:29:14] <SWPadnos> sure, but I suspect SW looks like crap at 1024x768 or below :)
[00:29:26] <SWPadnos> you'd probably have a 100x100 pixel work area
[00:29:39] <eric_u1> it doesn't matter so much what it looks like
[00:29:59] <eric_u1> why so small?
[00:30:10] <SWPadnos> menus, toolbars, feature tree, property pane ...
[00:30:48] <SWPadnos> the folks at my old company run dual 30" monitors on all their CAD stations now
[00:30:59] <SWPadnos> it's likely overkill, I'm sure one would do ;)
[00:31:00] <eric_u1> I'm using 24", it works fine
[00:31:08] <SWPadnos> yep, 1920x1200
[00:31:25] <eric_u1> I would have dual 24", but I have no place to put them
[00:31:39] <eric_u1> in fact, I may have some extra 20"
[00:31:48] <SWPadnos> many apps are made with high resolution in mind, and they don't always work well when used on lower resolution displays
[00:31:55] <SWPadnos> let me know though, I'm curious
[00:32:15] <eric_u1> when I said resolution, I meant rendering resolution, not pixels
[00:32:38] <SWPadnos> oh. well on NT, 2k, or XP that should be fine
[00:33:02] <eric_u1> I've never used remote desktop over a wan, just a lan
[00:33:08] <eric_u1> and it can be slow on a lan
[00:33:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:35:16] <eric_u1> that thread you linked is funny, the guy asks how to learn html/css, and ends up getting a list of every linux software available
[00:35:37] <SWPadnos> I noticed that the CAD apps didn't have much to do with Adobe
[00:35:53] <SWPadnos> whatever, the list was good
[00:36:29] <eric_u1> good list, but I am left with the question "are any of these worth my time?"
[00:37:17] <SWPadnos> I guess it depends on whether you care about using a Linux based CAD program
[00:37:26] <SWPadnos> and how you value your time against that
[00:37:36] <eric_u1> sometimes there just isn't one available that is worth using
[00:37:56] <SWPadnos> I suspect there's a good analogy with Eagle
[00:38:13] <SWPadnos> I can't use EAGLE, and I have little incentive to try because I have Altium
[00:38:13] <eric_u1> eagle probably keeps the quality of the free stuff down a little
[00:38:16] <SWPadnos> and know how to use it
[00:38:44] <SWPadnos> but there are a lot of people who have taken the time to learn it, and they can do a lot of what I do with Altium
[00:39:00] <eric_u1> is Altium a new name for something else?
[00:39:13] <SWPadnos> it's a PCB design suite
[00:39:17] <SWPadnos> Altium Designer
[00:39:26] <eric_u1> I know, just curious if it is renamed
[00:39:29] <SWPadnos> no
[00:39:36] <SWPadnos> well, maybe
[00:39:53] <SWPadnos> Altium bought Protel and Tango way back when
[00:40:00] <SWPadnos> and I think P-cad also
[00:40:01] <eric_u1> ok
[00:40:11] <eric_u1> wow
[00:40:17] <SWPadnos> so I think maybe Protel turned into Altium
[00:40:20] <eric_u1> I wondered where some of those went
[00:40:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:40:39] <SWPadnos> yeah, I think there's Cadence, Mentor, Altium, and PADS
[00:40:46] <SWPadnos> Cadence bought OrCad I think
[00:40:53] <eric_u1> definitely
[00:41:32] <SWPadnos> there isn't much else in the really high end market
[00:41:55] <SWPadnos> there are some others though, Proteus is one, there's another I can't remember that I've seen
[00:41:57] <eric_u1> there is a limit to how many people are going to spend 4k+ on a package
[00:42:21] <SWPadnos> and the MCAD market is pretty similar, you have CATIA, Pro/E, and SolidWorks on the high end
[00:42:22] <eric_u1> spending that much, you want to know that the company is going to be around
[00:42:38] <SWPadnos> then a slew of mid-range products like TurboCAD, Rhino, etc
[00:42:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:42:47] <SWPadnos> Aaltium is $10k
[00:42:50] <eric_u1> I think a full solidworks package would cost me almost $10k
[00:42:50] <SWPadnos> -a
[00:43:24] <SWPadnos> sure, if you include FEA, the upgraded photorealistic renderer, and maybe their stupid versioner PDMWorks
[00:43:30] <eric_u1> with the first year of maintenance thrown in?
[00:43:38] <SWPadnos> for Altium?
[00:43:41] <eric_u1> yeah
[00:44:10] <SWPadnos> no support incidents, but upgrades for that major version
[00:44:19] <SWPadnos> support is another $1800/year or thereabouts
[00:44:45] <SWPadnos> and it gets you the major version upgrades (about 1 every 2-3 years)
[00:45:07] <eric_u1> do you get that?
[00:45:27] <SWPadnos> I did this last time because I wanted some of the features of the 08 version
[00:45:46] <eric_u1> so you don't have to have maintenance every year?
[00:46:05] <SWPadnos> no, but they will charge you for the prior years if you want to get the upgrade :)
[00:46:22] <eric_u1> sounds potentially expensive
[00:46:40] <SWPadnos> or there's an upgrade price, but it's about the same as a couple years of support (so you might as well get the back support, since you then get the support incidents)
[00:46:43] <SWPadnos> it is
[00:46:45] <SWPadnos> ws
[00:46:46] <SWPadnos> was
[01:18:11] <john_f> Hi, A question about rigid tapping. What kind of spindle drive and motor did the Mazak at the EMC workshop have?
[01:18:29] <cradek> just a basic vfd
[01:18:41] <cradek> to a basic AC motor
[01:18:48] <john_f> What was the control input? analog?
[01:18:58] <cradek> yes +-10V analog for spindle speed
[01:19:25] <cradek> EMC2 can rigid tap with any spindle that can make a nice smooth reversal
[01:19:54] <cradek> for instance my lathe has a 2HP spindle motor on an automation-direct VFD
[01:20:12] <john_f> Do most drives have analog inputs?
[01:20:32] <cradek> VFDs do - I'm not an expert on the various kinds of drives
[01:21:03] <john_f> Yes I mean VFD. That is what would work for most 3 Phase spindle motors
[01:21:23] <john_f> All I need to do is have a VFD and an encoder.
[01:21:35] <cradek> right, encoder with index
[01:22:03] <eric_u1> the vfd's I've looked at have +/- 10v
[01:22:11] <john_f> The modbus interface is not fast enough?
[01:22:33] <cradek> it would probably be fine but I have not tried it. modbus support is very new in EMC2.
[01:22:56] <john_f> Yes SWP was working on that.
[01:22:58] <cradek> my VFD has 0 to +10V and digital inputs for fwd/rev
[01:27:13] <SWPadnos> the command rate for modbus should allow at least 50-100 updates a second
[01:27:23] <SWPadnos> at least for the GS2, at 38.4kbaus
[01:27:25] <SWPadnos> d
[01:27:41] <cradek> it would be perfectly fine then
[01:28:09] <eric_u1> cradek: does the tapping work with digital forward/reverse?
[01:28:22] <cradek> yes
[01:28:32] <SWPadnos> it works from encoder feedback, which is realtime
[01:28:38] <cradek> it doesn't care what it takes to reverse the spindle, just that it reverses pretty smoothly
[01:28:39] <eric_u1> I believe that is more common
[01:28:57] <cradek> right, EMC just follows the spindle with the moving axis while it reverses
[01:28:58] <SWPadnos> the reversecommand could be slow, but it would affect how much too far the spindle goes before stopping
[01:29:04] <cradek> all spindles take "a while" to reverse
[01:29:59] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe 50-80 updates a second. I think there are around 50 bytes per exchange
[01:32:46] <john_f> Why do I need an index pulse on the encoder. dosen't EMC only need to know the spindle speed?
[01:32:58] <eric_u1> that's where it comes from
[01:33:08] <SWPadnos> no
[01:33:18] <SWPadnos> you must know the orientation of the spindle
[01:33:43] <eric_u1> you need a full encoder?
[01:33:57] <SWPadnos> yes
[01:34:11] <john_f> If it is a tap maybe I don't care where the thread starts
[01:34:47] <SWPadnos> the current implementation waits for the index before moving (I know for lathe, I think for rigid tap too)
[01:34:58] <cradek> so multiple passes line up (think lathe threading)
[01:35:09] <cradek> you can even peck tap!
[01:35:13] <john_f> OK that makes sense.
[01:39:47] <SWPadnos> cool: http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing
[01:45:02] <eric_u1> that is pretty cool
[01:45:17] <eric_u1> how does he charge the thing at the track?
[01:48:51] <SWPadnos> damfino
[01:49:00] <SWPadnos> fast car though :)
[01:49:24] <cradek> john_f: it's neat to see on a part with a lot of tapped holes how the entry threads all point the same way
[01:49:30] <jmkasunich> john_f: minor correction to your original question
[01:49:36] <jmkasunich> the mazak has a DC spindle motor
[01:49:47] <cradek> oh? ok
[01:49:58] <jmkasunich> not a DC servo, just a 5HP or so DC motor, with an SCR based drive
[01:50:30] <jmkasunich> from a control point of view, it works just like an AC VFD
[01:50:35] <jmkasunich> 0-10V speed ref, etc
[02:00:08] <Guest898> hello all i am new to emc. In efforts to do my homework i have been doing a lot of reading. Am i correct in understanding that i/o is mapped from physical to emc variables thru HAL
[02:01:17] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:04:15] <Guest898> dose anybody know what seems to be the prefered method of interfacing to servos i have been looking at the vigilant pci board
[02:04:28] <jmkasunich> everybody has different preferences
[02:05:15] <eric_u1> I seem to prefer the Mesa
[02:06:09] <eric_u1> but I could prefer the vigilant if it was cheaper
[02:06:56] <Guest898> i want to use drives that take a +/-10v signal is the mesa capable of providing that the cost of the vigilant is steep for me
[02:07:02] <jmkasunich> I like Mesa because the maker is an open-source supporter
[02:07:10] <jmkasunich> yes, mesa can to +/-10V
[02:07:19] <jepler> Guest898: yes, there is a daughtercard for +-10V output
[02:07:26] <eric_u1> you need the external board for that
[02:07:27] <jmkasunich> 7i33 interface card, has 4 encoder inputs and 4 +/-10V outputs
[02:07:44] <jmkasunich> the 7i33 is under $100
[02:07:51] <Guest898> well thanks that makes that easy
[02:08:15] <Guest898> mesa lit was unclear on analog
[02:08:47] <eric_u1> I'm not a big fan of their website
[02:09:08] <cradek> I used mesa for my latest conversion and I will also use it for the next one
[02:09:24] <Guest898> any special coding to do with the mesa, or just load provided firmware
[02:09:35] <cradek> just load provided
[02:09:41] <cradek> in the EMC2 distribution
[02:09:47] <jepler> a common setup is 5i20 + 7i33 + 2x7i37 -- that gives you the analog+encoder mentioned above, 32 isolated inputs, and 16 isolated outputs
[02:10:29] <Guest898> what are people using for interfacing mpg's
[02:10:29] <cradek> yes, and a simple mill might only need half that IO, saving you one board
[02:11:05] <jepler> you can use certain additional I/O as more encoder inputs
[02:11:11] <cradek> anything that reads an encoder, like mesa, or even software encoder reading on the parallel port
[02:11:30] <cradek> if you have a 3 axis mill and a 4 axis 7i33, wiring it to the mesa is easiest
[02:12:36] <Guest898> dose emc have a provision for a mpg i assume it dose i just havent dug in enough
[02:12:43] <jepler> yes, it does
[02:13:14] <cradek> you can do lots with external encoders - jog, feed override, spindle override
[02:13:24] <jepler> cradek has set most of those up on his lathe
[02:13:33] <Guest898> how dose it handle incrmental magnification
[02:13:37] <cradek> I'm just working on laying out a front panel for it...
[02:13:46] <cradek> Guest898: yes you can change the jogwheel increments however you like
[02:14:52] <jepler> right -- for instance, you can use a 4-position switch to select one of 4 arbitrary increments. Maybe .01, .02, .05, .1; or maybe .001, .01, .1, 1.0 -- it's up to your configuration
[02:15:41] <jepler> or you can set it up to use a key on the keyboard to choose jog increments; again, the increments are up to you
[02:16:26] <Guest898> yeah i have a ton of handwheels with axis and incremental selectors. they are all graycode switches so i just planed on decoding them in ladder logic
[02:16:52] <jepler> here's an example of putting a specific mpg on the parallel port: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples_mpg.html
[02:17:20] <Guest898> thanks
[02:17:37] <jepler> in emc there's a special component (separate from ladder logic) to turn graycode / quadrature into counts -- that's what you'd want to use (if you're not using the encoder function of the 5i20 card)
[02:18:30] <Guest898> no the selector switches are gray code
[02:18:49] <Guest898> the handwheels are fanuc push pull
[02:18:50] <jepler> oh ok
[02:19:09] <jepler> yeah ladder would be a good way to do that
[02:19:30] <cradek> Guest898: if you give me one I'll happily help you get it set up and working
[02:19:49] <jepler> I was not reading what you said, I was thinking about how quadrature = 2-bit graycode is all
[02:20:35] <cradek> heck, I'd probably help you either way
[02:20:43] <cradek> oh well, worth a try
[02:20:44] <Guest898> send me you address i have two many to count. I do safety upgrades to CNC Machining centers i get them all the time
[02:20:47] <jepler> the pendant in that example has a 4-position switch -- I think one position is labeled "off" or just blank -- but I'm not sure if it's binary or graycode. with 2 inputs mux4, it doesn't matter -- just set up the right relationship between the inputs and you're done.
[02:21:08] <cradek> slick
[02:21:29] <Guest898> email jpmoniz@pmiautomation.com
[02:22:26] <Guest898> dont worry i plan on needing a lot of help lol
[02:22:38] <cradek> email sent, thank you
[02:22:43] <Guest898> np
[02:23:12] <Guest898> any suggestions on a board cpu ram combo
[02:23:29] <cradek> I'd happily pay for shipping too, let me know
[02:23:38] <cradek> I've used anything from P3 on up
[02:23:56] <Guest898> will do i will probably just ship it from work
[02:24:46] <fenn> Guest898: you are in UK right?
[02:25:01] <Guest898> got your email no toronto canada
[02:26:00] <fenn> ah, "ministry of labor" threw me for a sec
[02:26:29] <Guest898> LOL i was thinking that my self
[02:27:59] <Guest898> fenn are you from the uk
[02:28:25] <cradek> Guest898: what kind of machine is your retrofit?
[02:28:38] <fenn> no
[02:28:46] <fenn> indiana
[02:30:02] <Guest898> brand new right now it's planed to be a 4'x4' gantry with about a 24" z axis i may also add a 4th rotary axis
[02:30:36] <Guest898> drives and motors are allen bradley ultra 100
[02:30:46] <cradek> neat. for wood or metal cutting?
[02:31:27] <Guest898> hope fully both i plan to over kill the structure
[02:32:11] <Guest898> bosch linear rail with rolled ballscrews alum plate frame
[02:33:32] <cradek> I bet that much aluminum plate will cost a small fortune
[02:37:00] <Guest898> actually i let jobs i do pay for it most of it i will use standard bar sizes and stay away from cutting plate
[02:38:13] <Guest898> i do have a frist 9"x42" mill i may convert if this works out well
[02:39:42] <Guest898> has anyone tried to do some sort of tool offset probing with emc to automatically measure tool offsets
[02:40:28] <cradek> Guest898: yes I've probed tool lengths
[02:40:42] <Guest898> what did you use
[02:41:05] <cradek> in the upcoming EMC2.3 you can even write to the tool table with G10L1, so you could run a program that probes all your tools and writes the tool table for them.
[02:41:24] <cradek> I used a simple microswitch mounted to the table
[02:42:04] <cradek> renishaw makes some nice probes just for this if you want to spend 1000x as much for 10x the precision :-)
[02:42:21] <Guest898> this is too much i wish i new about this two years ago
[02:42:49] <Guest898> yeah i've used those probes before
[02:43:06] <Guest898> ever tried a ruby switch
[02:43:17] <cradek> no, what is it?
[02:43:43] <Guest898> a precision prox switch i can send you some info in the morn
[02:44:05] <cradek> thanks
[02:44:23] <Guest898> verry repeatable for a simple switch
[02:44:25] <cradek> I'm always curious but my budget usually doesn't get me anything with "precision" in the name
[02:45:10] <Guest898> i hear you i get all of my stuff on it's way to the bin
[02:45:45] <cradek> sounds like you have nicer bins nearby
[02:47:41] <Guest898> just the industry im in machines get rebuilt i take what may be of some use in a year or ten
[02:48:41] <dgarr> Trying to rebuild trunk, updated cvs, make clean, make -- got this error:
[02:48:41] <dgarr> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/home/emc_from_cvs/head/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_5i20.o', needed by `/home/emc_from_cvs/head/src/abs.o'. Stop.
[02:48:41] <dgarr> I've seen before but don't remember solution. Any ideas?
[02:49:30] <cradek> did you do cvs update -dP, or just cvs update?
[02:50:41] <dgarr> just cvs update
[02:50:52] <cradek> redo that with cvs update -dP
[02:51:05] <cradek> maybe you are missing a directory otherwise
[02:52:03] <dgarr> ok -- I'll try that -- and Bravo! for finding the seldom-seen arc bug
[02:52:10] <cradek> thanks
[02:52:34] <cradek> it showed up 3 times in 2 years - I was very happy to find it.
[02:53:49] <skunkworks> cradek: did you ever see it in person?
[02:54:36] <cradek> skunkworks: no but I was able to trigger it on purpose by initializing the uninitialized data to something nonzero
[02:55:16] <cradek> that was what made me confident that I had found it
[02:55:21] <skunkworks> nice
[02:55:32] <cradek> it is SO rare that it will be hard to know it's fixed
[02:55:40] <cradek> but I think it is
[02:56:46] <skunkworks> * skunkworks actually thinks it is impressive you figured it out without 'being there'
[02:56:59] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it happens eventualy on machines that are left on continuously
[02:57:08] <cradek> SWPadnos: I think that's possible
[02:57:20] <SWPadnos> I bet Stuart leaves that machine on a lot more than the average EMC user
[02:58:07] <SWPadnos> those are stack or heap allocated objects, so I wouldn't think an errant pointer would cause the problem
[02:58:50] <cradek> skunkworks: all I did was look at the places where I thought that behavior could be caused, and when I was sure it was right I went on to the next one, and eventually I found a problem - then I triggered the problem like I said, and the bug appeared
[02:59:22] <skunkworks> very neat
[03:11:59] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[03:30:12] <toastydeath> i joined twitter and i don't know why
[03:34:04] <dgarr> cradek: update -dP worked -- thanks, a lot of dirs had been added since my last update/make
[03:34:11] <cradek> welcome
[03:34:18] <cradek> it's always good to use -dP
[03:34:31] <dgarr> lesson learned i hope
[03:35:47] <cradek> I put "update -dP" in my ~/.cvsrc and then it always remembers for me
[03:36:55] <dgarr> good idea
[03:36:58] <dgarr> i've built a kernel with rtai and acpi enabled so i can suspend on a laptop i use for testing (no machine attached). now i'll try to get emc working with this kernel
[03:37:23] <cradek> you are brave
[03:37:42] <dgarr> so far so good:)
[03:57:16] <stustev1> I leave the dahlih on all the time
[03:57:40] <SWPadnos> ok, can you get back to us in a year or two and let us know if the problem is fixed? :)
[03:58:17] <stustev1> you can be assured - if it is noticed again it will be revealed :)
[03:58:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:59:43] <skunkworks> stustev1: jonE has a forum on cnczone.. You should go say hi :)
[04:07:44] <skunkworks> http://cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=428
[04:09:27] <cradek> hi stustev1!
[04:09:38] <stustev1> hi cradek
[04:11:21] <stustev1> cradek: thanks for the quick response with the 'black flag' bug killer:)
[04:11:27] <cradek> you bet
[04:11:35] <cradek> it's a relief to have that one fixed
[04:11:44] <cradek> I do NOT like bugs that cause wrong motion
[04:12:02] <stustev1> very bad very very bad
[04:12:47] <stustev1> the main problem is Clyde has lost some confidence with the machine
[04:13:33] <cradek> I can't fault him for that
[04:13:41] <stustev1> the day before the malmotion happened Clyde came to me with another 'problem'.
[04:14:37] <stustev1> He had center drilled some holes, copied the program section to the bottom of the file to drill the holes, the drill motion was off the table in X and Y.
[04:15:07] <stustev1> He was claiming the H02 was the culprit- somehow the machine was using it wrong
[04:15:09] <SWPadnos> G91 or some coordinate system snafu?
[04:15:32] <stustev1> SWPadnos: you are too quick ( G91 )
[04:15:42] <SWPadnos> it's all I know :)
[04:16:20] <stustev1> I went back to look at it with him. He had done a g91g28z0 at the end of the center drill cycle and hadn't reinstated G90 yet
[04:16:55] <SWPadnos> oops
[04:17:00] <stustev1> It was a very easy fix but his not bothering to look any further than 'the machine is messed up again' is unfortunate
[04:17:15] <SWPadnos> I'd expect the AXIS preview to warn him of that problem
[04:17:24] <stustev1> This will allow him to gain some confidence now
[04:17:38] <SWPadnos> the code didn't run did it?
[04:17:50] <SWPadnos> (should have had soft limits exceeded error)
[04:17:52] <stustev1> the preview did - he uses that a lot as his projects are one part or maybe a few
[04:18:04] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[04:18:20] <SWPadnos> do you guys have the soft limits set artificially wide?
[04:18:21] <stustev1> he hadn't tried to run it - he could see the motion way out of place in the preview
[04:18:29] <SWPadnos> ok, good
[04:18:34] <SWPadnos> red numbers = bad :)
[04:18:41] <SWPadnos> well, deep red that is
[04:19:10] <stustev1> the soft limits are set to keep the machine from hitting a hard limit
[04:19:14] <cradek> yay, the preview
[04:20:36] <stustev1> I will have to say Clyde is not a CNC operator - he is a very good manual machinist - I wanted him to learn it (he wanted to learn it) so I could get some feedback from a machinist
[04:21:18] <SWPadnos> at least he didn't complain that "it took off on its own" when he ran G-code :)
[04:21:19] <stustev1> he KNOWS how to cut parts so problems will more likely be real problems instead of machining errors
[04:21:31] <SWPadnos> that is a good thing
[04:21:51] <stustev1> his complaint was 'the motion is clear off the screen'
[04:22:22] <SWPadnos> well, let's see how he regains confidence in the machine
[04:22:35] <stustev1> he has learned it pretty good - he likes the keyboard hot keys - his finger just fly across the keyboard
[04:23:02] <stustev1> fingers
[04:23:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:23:27] <SWPadnos> funny - there was a guy I went to high school with who could type about 6 WPM
[04:23:31] <SWPadnos> with his index fingers
[04:23:49] <SWPadnos> he was a one-finger typist, but damned fast at it :)
[04:24:08] <SWPadnos> err - 60 WPM
[04:24:17] <SWPadnos> where'd that 0 go?
[04:24:39] <stustev1> we don't hire secretaries that just use one finger to type with - they are a hunting pecker ;)
[04:25:14] <stustev1> did your one finger miss the 0?
[04:25:31] <SWPadnos> it must have :)
[04:25:55] <SWPadnos> my pinky is slightly frozen. I'm in the basement with the heat off, and it's around 10 below out
[04:26:36] <SWPadnos> it's a good thing my laptop puts out a bit of heat - we don't have a cat any more
[04:26:47] <stustev1> it is short sleeve warm here this evening - prognosticators tell us we should have 2 inches of snow on the ground by noon tomorrow
[04:27:07] <stustev1> what happened to your cat?
[04:27:18] <SWPadnos> prognosticatos tell us it'll be 45 degrees in a few days, but we have an inch of snow on the ground now :)
[04:27:29] <SWPadnos> oh, he died a couple of years ago
[04:27:37] <SWPadnos> my wife is allergic, so we didn't get another one
[04:28:09] <stustev1> do you need another cat - we have three - I think these are hypo allergenic :)
[04:28:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:28:44] <JymmmEMC> 46 here
[04:28:54] <stustev1> I like cats but three are two too many
[04:29:11] <JymmmEMC> cats are good for one thing
[04:29:24] <stustev1> be careful now
[04:29:28] <JymmmEMC> dog food
[04:29:35] <stustev1> heh :)
[04:29:56] <SWPadnos> you only say that because you have 20+ birds
[04:30:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Nope, said it a long long long time ago
[04:30:16] <stustev1> do you have a bumper sticker that says 'I like cats - they taste like chicken'?
[04:30:25] <SWPadnos> oh. in that case it's because you're an asshole :)
[04:30:44] <SWPadnos> you folks are lucky my mother isn't around
[04:30:57] <SWPadnos> 68 years old but she'd still thrash you for talking badly about cats :)
[04:31:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: It's the only animal that hunts for sport that I know of. I don't like it when humans hunt for sport either... and they can be dog food too (if they can bury the bones that is)
[04:31:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:31:42] <stustev1> humans are animal too
[04:31:46] <stustev1> animals
[04:31:53] <SWPadnos> ok - that's true. house cats do tend to have fun wth other animals
[04:31:59] <JymmmEMC> and those humans that hunt for sport can be dog food too!
[04:32:33] <JymmmEMC> I'm an equal opportunity offender.... I dont care who you are, I'll offend ya!
[04:33:02] <stustev1> only one of our cats will do any hunting - she always brings whatever she catches and offers it to the whole family - then she eats it
[04:33:21] <JymmmEMC> Now, if you can tell me how to get the dman subtitles into a AVI, I'll be your bestest buddy!
[04:33:41] <stustev1> she doesn't hunt much anymore - she is 10 years old - when she brings something now I think it was probably dead already :)
[04:33:57] <eric_u1> we had a cat that lived to over 20, he was still out catching birds when he died -- only 3 working legs
[04:35:28] <stustev1> I will miss this cat when she dies - she meets me at the end of the drive when I get home, she sits in my chair when I am gone, she sits at the table with me when I eat (I don't feed her from the table)
[04:36:03] <SWPadnos> 10 is a young one, especially for a non-neutered male
[04:36:40] <stustev1> I am a non-neutered male :)
[04:36:43] <SWPadnos> a friend has a cat that recently lost control of one leg (then got it back, lost it again, and I think got it back again)
[04:36:46] <SWPadnos> you're not 10
[04:36:50] <SWPadnos> ;)
[04:37:01] <stustev1> a little more :)
[04:37:15] <SWPadnos> this cat catches at least one thing per day, and eats about as much as possible
[04:37:46] <SWPadnos> which makes it fun for me when I take care of the cat - looking for rabbit or squirrel (or frog ???) entrails around the carpeted condo
[04:39:42] <stustev1> nite all
[04:39:53] <SWPadnos> see yoy
[04:39:55] <SWPadnos> u
[05:01:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: so, that's why you like to eat so much... snacks all around
[05:02:13] <SWPadnos> no. just a high metabolism I guess
[05:02:57] <JymmmEMC> that's ok, I enjoy finding new holes in the wall
[05:03:08] <SWPadnos> huh.
[05:03:17] <JymmmEMC> ...to eat at
[05:03:24] <SWPadnos> I wonder how they get all the lights you need plus brakes into a 4-prong connector
[05:03:33] <SWPadnos> oh, not that - sorry
[05:03:39] <SWPadnos> I like holy walls too :)
[05:03:51] <JymmmEMC> gnd, left, right, brakes
[05:04:06] <JymmmEMC> or chassis + left, right, brake, rev
[05:04:12] <SWPadnos> yeah, I guess the expectation is that you'll flash the parking lights or something
[05:04:32] <JymmmEMC> it's 46 out here, and I have a date with a pillow!
[05:04:35] <SWPadnos> oh right. duh!
[05:05:01] <JymmmEMC> hasta
[05:05:03] <SWPadnos> the brake light contact can also activate the brakes themselves (or vise versa)
[05:05:04] <SWPadnos> see you
[05:06:07] <eric_u1> are you talking about car lights?
[05:06:24] <SWPadnos> yeah - trailer lights actually
[05:07:44] <eric_u1> do they actually have separate brake/direction lights?
[05:07:53] <eric_u1> actually, that would be 4
[05:08:02] <SWPadnos> well, the trailer actually has brakes
[05:08:03] <eric_u1> left/right/brake/gnd
[05:08:04] <SWPadnos> so that's 1
[05:08:20] <SWPadnos> left and right are needed for blinkers, and can double as parking/marker lights
[05:08:31] <SWPadnos> so I guess that's all you really need
[05:08:46] <eric_u1> do they have parking lights? I don't recall seeing that
[05:08:49] <SWPadnos> I had just forgotten that the brakes and the brake lights always go on at the same time (ideally) :)
[05:09:03] <eric_u1> that's the preferred option
[05:09:05] <SWPadnos> well, driving lights on the left and right
[05:09:17] <eric_u1> that's true
[05:09:19] <SWPadnos> which are the blinkers, just left on all the time
[05:09:44] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130273244982
[05:09:58] <SWPadnos> expensive, but looks about perfect for moving machines around
[05:10:05] <eric_u1> that's what I'm talkin' about
[05:10:35] <eric_u1> I rented something similar for my mill
[05:11:05] <SWPadnos> the trouble with rentals (and that one also) is that they're really heavy relative to their load rating
[05:11:19] <SWPadnos> so idiots don't destroy them
[05:11:31] <eric_u1> as an idiot, I approve of that message
[05:11:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:11:53] <eric_u1> the pickup I was towing it with was a monster too, drop tailgate
[05:12:21] <eric_u1> cost me a tidy sum to drive 400 miles
[05:12:27] <SWPadnos> it is funny that you can't get a pickup that can take more than 1-1.5 tons, but the big ones are rated to tow like 14000 pounds
[05:12:31] <SWPadnos> I can imagine
[05:12:49] <SWPadnos> this is a good time to buy a long distance lathe. I can afford the gas to pick it up
[05:13:04] <eric_u1> between that and the forklift it was at least half what the mill cost
[05:13:16] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:13:29] <eric_u1> I paid the guy I bought the lathe from to deliver
[05:13:41] <eric_u1> best $300 I ever spent
[05:13:59] <SWPadnos> I lucked out. a friend wanted to get a lathe on the same route as my mill, plus he had a coupon from Ryder for a $79 2-day rental (which was avtually 3 because it was a weekend)
[05:14:12] <SWPadnos> so for $300 or so, we got the truck, gas, and a hotel
[05:14:30] <eric_u1> was it a closed top truck?
[05:14:31] <SWPadnos> and were able to pick up two machines, one in Buffalo and the other in Syracuse
[05:14:37] <SWPadnos> yep, panel truck
[05:14:46] <SWPadnos> you can load those with a forklift just fine
[05:14:53] <eric_u1> the ones I've rented didn't have reasonable tie-down options
[05:14:58] <SWPadnos> unloading was fun because we don't have forklifts
[05:15:01] <eric_u1> my mill weighs about 5k
[05:15:18] <SWPadnos> we got load bars from Ryder
[05:15:25] <eric_u1> what do they do?
[05:15:34] <SWPadnos> and strapped to those, plus the base of the vertical beams
[05:15:56] <SWPadnos> they're sturdy beams that you latch across the truck at strategic points
[05:16:15] <SWPadnos> they keep things from sliding front-to-back
[05:16:25] <eric_u1> I didn't know that was an option, every time I rent it's from incompetents
[05:16:26] <SWPadnos> they're about a 4x6" cross section of aluminum tube
[05:16:36] <SWPadnos> U-Haul = incompetemt
[05:16:38] <SWPadnos> nt
[05:16:52] <eric_u1> ryder still owes me $40 from my last move
[05:16:54] <SWPadnos> the Ryder people also didn't know where they were - we had to show them in the back room :)
[05:17:24] <eric_u1> they said, "oh, we don't have a hand truck, you can go drive an hour and pick one up yourself"
[05:17:27] <SWPadnos> but at least they had them
[05:17:38] <SWPadnos> cha-ching! mileage charge
[05:17:53] <eric_u1> and they wouldn't take the thing off the bill, they said take it off when you settle
[05:17:54] <SWPadnos> actually, that was the other nice thing about this - the mileage was free
[05:18:02] <SWPadnos> yep, of course
[05:18:12] <SWPadnos> then they don't know what the heck drugs you're on
[05:18:13] <eric_u1> of course they wouldn't do that
[05:18:33] <eric_u1> I'm probably lucky they didn't charge me for losing it
[05:18:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:19:10] <SWPadnos> "what hand truck? you guys don't rent those"
[05:19:11] <eric_u1> so I drained the oil and drove it for 10 miles
[05:19:19] <SWPadnos> idiot :)
[05:19:27] <eric_u1> I just wish I had
[05:19:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:20:02] <eric_u1> although I did forget to retract the ramps on the car hauler and drove it at least 5 miles with them dragging
[05:20:16] <eric_u1> boy, did I feel stupid
[05:21:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:21:40] <SWPadnos> good sandpaper, that asphalt roadway
[05:21:44] <SWPadnos> concrete is even better
[05:22:20] <eric_u1> around here it's almost all asphalt
[05:22:45] <eric_u1> but concrete would cause more sparks I think
[05:22:57] <SWPadnos> oh right - PA
[05:23:40] <SWPadnos> it is strange that in the northeast we use asphalt, but in the midwest they often use concrete (like Wisconsin and Minnesota)
[05:23:51] <SWPadnos> they get just as cold as we do, so that's probably not it
[05:24:20] <eric_u1> I think cold is ok, it's the oscillation from one to another that causes concrete to die young
[05:24:44] <eric_u1> they have permafrost, and their big problem is during the spring thaw
[05:25:08] <eric_u1> stronger is better, asphalt roads are weight limited during that period
[05:25:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm. concrete is brittle compared to asphalt, so the freeze-thaw cycles are a problem
[05:26:12] <eric_u1> we have a concrete interstate nearby, it is getting a massive overhaul after 10 years
[05:27:00] <SWPadnos> oh. 10 years wouldn't be bad for up here
[05:27:08] <SWPadnos> not too bad anyway
[05:27:15] <eric_u1> last year, they decided it didn't have good enough drainage, so they had to cut across it, this year patching
[05:28:08] <eric_u1> 60 miles of one lane interstate is a fairly good psychological test
[05:28:26] <eric_u1> turns out most people are insane
[05:28:48] <SWPadnos> indeed
[05:29:11] <SWPadnos> oh, is this the stretch across the west end of the state, between NY and OH on I-95?
[05:29:20] <eric_u1> no, I-99
[05:29:24] <SWPadnos> I know they've been working on that for a couple of years
[05:29:27] <SWPadnos> oh, ok
[05:29:58] <eric_u1> you are thinking about I-80? I-95 is east
[05:30:15] <SWPadnos> err, right
[05:30:37] <SWPadnos> the connection between da truway and Ohio, through Erie :)
[05:30:51] <SWPadnos> 80, 90, whatever
[05:31:14] <eric_u1> well, if it's anywhere Ohio, it's broken
[05:31:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:31:24] <SWPadnos> near ohio
[05:31:40] <eric_u1> I lived there for 6 years, and the concrete there is shortlived
[05:31:48] <SWPadnos> actually, they're working on that road in both PA and OH
[05:31:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:31:58] <SWPadnos> do you watch "30 Rock"?
[05:32:04] <eric_u1> no
[05:32:12] <SWPadnos> oh. too bad, it's a funny show
[05:32:35] <SWPadnos> they had an episode where they portray Cleveland as paradise (especially compared to New York)
[05:32:39] <SWPadnos> it was pretty funny
[05:32:54] <eric_u1> that does sound funny
[05:33:00] <eric_u1> although Cleveland isn't too bad
[05:33:12] <SWPadnos> Tina Fey writes and stars in it - it's damned good
[05:35:03] <eric_u1> also
[05:37:14] <eric_u1> seems like red leds have been left behind as far as power
[05:37:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I think I have some 130 candela ones
[05:37:51] <SWPadnos> (yes, candela, not mcd)
[05:38:09] <SWPadnos> 10mm though
[05:38:30] <eric_u1> those ratings are fairly arbitrary
[05:38:36] <eric_u1> it seems
[05:39:38] <SWPadnos> they're pretty damned bright
[05:40:05] <SWPadnos> I got a lot of LEDs from a couple of eBay sellers in Hong Kong
[05:40:19] <eric_u1> do they require a heat sink?
[05:40:39] <SWPadnos> no, they're not the 1, 3, or 5W class like the Luxeons
[05:40:59] <eric_u1> the white leds seem to be rated in lumens
[05:41:13] <SWPadnos> some are now, which is good
[05:42:13] <eric_u1> I want to build a light for my bike, front is good, rear I'm not sure about
[05:42:42] <SWPadnos> oh. if you're looking for visibility and not illumination, these would be fine
[05:43:03] <SWPadnos> they're low power - I think 3.7V and 20-100mA will do it
[05:43:37] <SWPadnos> 2 or 3 will light my office enough to read by (shining at the ceiling)
[05:43:38] <eric_u1> I have something like that now, bought it from lowes
[05:43:58] <eric_u1> 16 bucks, 4 AA cells, 10 LEDs
[05:44:11] <SWPadnos> then you probably don't need to build one
[05:44:32] <eric_u1> I have a hub dyno, so I'd like to use that for power
[05:47:47] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-5-LED-NEON-MOTORCYCLE-CAR-BOAT-POD-LIGHT-BRIGHT_W0QQitemZ200283625896QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Electronics_Parts_Accessories?hash=item200283625896&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
[05:48:52] <eric_u1> too bad I only have 6v :)
[05:49:07] <SWPadnos> oh, was that 12?
[05:49:14] <eric_u1> ya
[05:49:22] <SWPadnos> well, stick in a voltage doubler then :)
[05:49:54] <SWPadnos> if onlly it were 6 LEDs - you could rewire it
[05:51:09] <eric_u1> they say that a generator is a constant current source, so you can put more leds in series
[05:51:16] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-1W-Ultra-Bright-Red-LED-50-Lumen-LEDs-Lamp_W0QQitemZ260328914558QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Electronic_Components?hash=item260328914558&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
[05:52:03] <eric_u1> that looks good
[05:52:24] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/2pcs-3W-STAR-HIGH-POWER-RED-LED-LAMP-85lm-FREE-SHIP_W0QQitemZ350084916469QQihZ022QQcategoryZ66954QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
[05:53:00] <SWPadnos> no 5W though
[05:53:15] <eric_u1> looks like the 1w may be a better deal though
[05:53:35] <SWPadnos> they have singles of the 3W for $8
[05:54:07] <eric_u1> I have some old luxeon stars, wonder if I can just replace the emitter
[05:54:23] <SWPadnos> no, the emitter is what makes it a Luxeon :)
[05:54:30] <SWPadnos> the star thing is just a heatsink
[05:54:43] <eric_u1> I know that, but the emitters are outdated
[05:55:01] <SWPadnos> ah. you may be able to do that with a new Luxeon
[05:56:02] <eric_u1> now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure people are now replacing their old luxeons with crees or seouls
[05:56:20] <SWPadnos> yeah. DigiKey seems to only have accessories and lenses for them - no actual LEDs
[05:56:44] <eric_u1> last time I looked, mouser had more options
[05:56:52] <eric_u1> but it's cheaper to get them from HK
[05:57:56] <eric_u1> 12W http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11809
[05:58:24] <eric_u1> 570 - 740 lumens
[05:58:28] <eric_u1> but not red
[05:58:32] <SWPadnos> at 2.8A, for not more than 5 seconds without heatsink
[05:58:44] <SWPadnos> it is nice and small though
[05:58:51] <eric_u1> true, I couldn't pedal the bike
[05:59:25] <eric_u1> now I see why the P7 flashlights cost $50
[05:59:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:59:54] <SWPadnos> 570 lm is a lot - about like a 30-40W bulb
[06:00:30] <eric_u1> People with 150 lumen bike lights report drivers flashing them because the light is too bright
[06:00:45] <eric_u1> now you can get up to 800 lumen, you have to dim them
[06:00:49] <SWPadnos> oh yeah, I can imagine
[06:03:06] <SWPadnos> oh. bedtime. good night
[06:03:15] <eric_u1> good night
[06:49:39] <dave_1> hey night owl ... SWP ... still around???
[06:50:01] <eric_u1> he said he was leaving, but you never know
[06:50:42] <dave_1> well he is still loged on but that may not mean much.
[06:50:54] <dave_1> btw hi eric
[06:50:59] <eric_u1> hi
[06:51:48] <dave_1> after pulling out most of my remaining hair I finally downloaded the rt from linuxcnc.org and installed.
[06:52:05] <eric_u1> does it work?
[06:52:08] <dave_1> at least it will boot from CD to install.
[06:52:31] <dave_1> Got synergy intstalled and it comes up. :-)
[06:52:43] <dave_1> not really tried anything yet.
[06:52:57] <eric_u1> good start anyway
[06:53:03] <dave_1> need to add the old disk as hdb and copy files across
[06:53:13] <dave_1> will know tomorrow
[06:53:37] <dave_1> where are you
[06:54:12] <dave_1> eric_ul .... where are you
[06:56:08] <eric_u1> pennsylvania
[06:56:36] <dave_1> ah ... so it is early morning. .... another night owl
[06:56:42] <eric_u1> yeah
[06:56:53] <dave_1> nice if you hold up
[06:57:01] <dave_1> no one bothers you
[06:57:10] <eric_u1> probably not good for me
[06:57:57] <dave_1> never know
[06:58:42] <eric_u1> If I stay up til three it makes me grumpy, so I should be off
[06:59:26] <dave_1> sleep tite
[06:59:37] <eric_u1> good night
[06:59:46] <dave_1> see ya
[11:12:53] <archivist> logger_emc: bookmark
[11:12:53] <archivist> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-09.txt
[12:14:01] <piasdom> g'day all
[13:32:10] <jepler> haha: "check out my new caliper battery" http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/news/Caliper-Battery.jpg
[13:38:06] <archivist> hehe cheapskate
[13:50:02] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[14:11:23] <skunkworks_> only 6 more inches of snow over night.
[14:11:35] <skunkworks_> maybe 1 or 2 more today
[14:11:39] <skunkworks_> I love winter
[14:11:51] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ has to get some new ski boots.
[14:13:25] <archivist> * archivist sitting here in a fridge
[14:13:56] <archivist> winter is only nice if heating is provided
[14:30:11] <jepler> skunkworks_: there was supposed to be a decent snowfall here but it didn't amount to much
[14:31:49] <skunkworks_> The snow is light and fluffy. Not a real issue at all
[14:34:59] <archivist> * archivist want warm sun
[14:35:05] <archivist> wants
[14:35:11] <archivist> needs
[14:35:21] <archivist> demands!
[14:43:15] <archivist> sod.. got beat for a couple of auto-collimators on ebay
[15:07:14] <skunkworks_> auto-collimators?
[15:07:25] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ thinks of collimators for telescopes
[15:07:29] <archivist> machine alignment scopes
[15:08:38] <archivist> I didnt fight hard for them as I have an angle dekkor which is the same almost
[15:58:58] <cradek> http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/mahockett/chuck.jpg
[16:00:54] <skunkworks_> it's photoshopped ;)
[16:00:56] <MH^WrongNetwork> Evening all.
[16:00:59] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ is kidding
[16:01:06] <skunkworks_> Good morning
[16:01:19] <MH^WrongNetwork> Does anyone know why EMC doing g0's would ignore my MAX_VELOCITY in the config file?
[16:01:30] <MH^WrongNetwork> Seems to be trying to go rather faster, which my steppers really don't like. :)
[16:02:12] <cradek> what behavior are you seeing?
[16:02:53] <MH^WrongNetwork> Well, I've got the mill set to a maximum of 12mm/s (using the stepconf wizard) but if I do a longish G0 it seems to try to run rather faster than that, then the steppers miss a step and it locks up.
[16:03:00] <MH^WrongNetwork> (the mill, that is, not the program)
[16:03:23] <MH^WrongNetwork> Once the speed drops down slow enough in deceleration that the steppers can deal it runs OK again.
[16:03:46] <MH^WrongNetwork> The maximum I've set in the .ini does seem to be OK using the "Run Test" option in the stepconf wizard.
[16:04:01] <cradek> if you turn on the velocity display, what does it show when it's going too fast?
[16:04:10] <skunkworks_> do you know maxvelocity is in units per second? (not inches or mm per minute.)
[16:04:25] <MH^WrongNetwork> Yes, and it's set to 12. 12mm/s is fine on the hardware.
[16:05:07] <MH^WrongNetwork> The velocity display while it's going too fast is a bit hard to read (since it's still accelerating) but it gets above 820 that I've seen - and that's above the 12mm/s limit.
[16:06:07] <cradek> it will go over 720 if you are moving diagonally
[16:06:09] <jepler> 12mm/s is an axis limit. If you're moving X and Y at a 45 degree angle, you could get up to about 1000 mm/min velocity (12 * 60 * sqrt(2))
[16:06:20] <cradek> yes
[16:06:37] <MH^WrongNetwork> Yes, I know. Two minutes and I'll see what I can get it to peak at on a one-axis G0.
[16:08:01] <cradek> if it still seems wrong, you could put your ini file on http://pastebin.ca so we can see it
[16:08:05] <jepler> bbl, work calls
[16:11:03] <MH^WrongNetwork> OK, this is a bit confusing. The velocity display on a single axis tops out at 720, which *should* be OK, right on 12mm/s. But it's clearly not moving at the same speed as in the stepconf wizard's test set to 12mm/s.
[16:11:51] <MH^WrongNetwork> (By a fair margin - sounds, going by the buzzing noises from the motors, about twice as fast?)
[16:12:11] <cradek> it may be that in the stepconf test, it never gets up to speed because of a low acceleration?
[16:12:26] <MH^WrongNetwork> Unfortunately I also just managed to bugger up one axis when it ran into the endstops.
[16:12:31] <cradek> or, maybe stepconf does it wrong
[16:12:39] <cradek> uh-oh
[16:12:51] <MH^WrongNetwork> Yeah, sod's law. I'll fix it. :)
[16:13:23] <MH^WrongNetwork> Acceleration's about 15ms^-2, and I was using the left/right buttons not the rattle-back-and-forth bit so it seemed OK.
[16:14:06] <MH^WrongNetwork> I'm going with stepconf's doing it wrong (in some way or other) and I should really just turn down the max_velocity for now. :)
[16:14:22] <cradek> yeah, it sounds like 12 is too fast, so just lower it. I agree it might be a stepconf problem.
[16:14:29] <cradek> what version is this?
[16:15:03] <MH^WrongNetwork> Not sure on the version numbers, it's the version on the Ubuntu 8.04 LTS CD image on linuxcnc.org
[16:15:14] <cradek> help/about inside EMC
[16:15:17] <MH^WrongNetwork> k.
[16:15:30] <MH^WrongNetwork> 2.2.5
[16:15:33] <cradek> ah
[16:15:41] <cradek> run your updates and you'll get 2.2.7
[16:16:00] <MH^WrongNetwork> I would, but the machine with the mill attached isn't on the network. :)
[16:16:15] <MH^WrongNetwork> It's on my todo list, just after unjamming the X-axis. ;)
[16:16:37] <cradek> network is the easiest way to update (by far) but you can do it without. There is some information on the wiki about that.
[16:17:04] <archivist> another brit!
[16:17:17] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
[16:17:26] <cradek> ^ you can see there are quite a few stepconf fixes
[16:20:07] <MH^WrongNetwork> I'll have a look.
[16:20:42] <MH^WrongNetwork> archivist: I'm sure we're not as rare as all that. :)
[16:20:47] <archivist> :)
[16:21:25] <MH^WrongNetwork> Gah, got to strip the couplers off the X-axis entirely to fix.
[16:21:32] <MH^WrongNetwork> * MH^WrongNetwork goes to fiddle.
[16:26:38] <toastatwork> durrr
[16:26:53] <toastatwork> i have a tool whose center height is floating
[16:26:55] <toastatwork> on this lathe
[16:27:08] <toastatwork> it is quite possibly the most annoying thing i have tried to deal with
[16:40:33] <anonimasu> floating?
[16:40:37] <anonimasu> weird
[16:44:15] <toastatwork> the turrent isn't indexing repeatably
[16:45:57] <archivist> worn locking pin
[16:46:08] <toastatwork> probably =/
[16:47:19] <archivist> our old Herbert is loose but still manages centre drills
[19:05:23] <anonimasu> archivist: well, they are stuff enough to cut off center too
[19:21:52] <archivist_ub> archivist_ub is now known as archivist
[19:32:00] <toastatwork> is there some law that says every forum must aruge about a plane on a treadmill at least once
[19:33:18] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:33:40] <SWPadnos> but it's like Moore's law - not really a regulation, just a description of the facts
[19:36:21] <toastatwork> the sequel to snakes on a plane!
[19:36:24] <toastatwork> planes on a treadmill.
[19:37:12] <skunkworks_> I know there is a municipality here in WI that is installing hydrogen generators on their vehicles.. The news clip said - 40% better fuel economy.
[19:39:10] <skunkworks_> jeeze - http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2008/11/19/news/local_news/news01.txt
[19:39:19] <skunkworks_> 11.1 miles per gallon to 21. 9
[20:29:14] <jepler> skunkworks_: Hydrogen fuel enhancement from electrolysis of water where the required electricity is supplied by the engine’s alternator or 12/24-volt electrical system can produce fuel efficiency improvements on an older diesel truck in the order of 4% and similar modest reductions in emissions, and is currently in use in Canada.[9][10][11] ; However recent tests by consumer watch groups have also shown negative results. [12][13][14] [15]
[20:29:20] <jepler> (wikipedia)
[20:29:24] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_enhancement
[20:29:29] <jepler> 100% improvement? probabl ynot.
[20:36:14] <cradek> some interesting things in Talk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hydrogen_fuel_enhancement
[20:40:56] <cradek> I always see "if you make some adjustment to the engine/mixture/gas and the mileage goes up, IT'S PERPETUAL MOTION!!!1!"
[20:41:13] <cradek> but ... that's not true
[20:41:35] <archivist> I remember some hydrogen hype from the early 1980's
[20:43:49] <skunkworks_> Yes - I think it is a bunch of bull. (just so you know where I am coming from.)
[20:45:50] <archivist> lower temperature normally means lower efficiency so its BS in the main article reason Diesel is more efficient is the temperature and expansion
[20:47:58] <toastatwork> diesel egt's are lower though - is that just because more energy is extracted during the power stroke?
[20:48:46] <fenn> yes
[20:49:26] <toastatwork> that is cool.
[20:49:30] <fenn> higher compression ratio = more adiabatic expansion
[20:50:06] <fenn> you can make liquid nitrogen if you get the ratio high enough
[20:51:23] <toastatwork> there was actually a doodad on ebay the other day that did exactly that, i believe?
[20:51:42] <toastatwork> looked like a tank mounted compressor but made liquid nitrogen?
[20:51:49] <fenn> cool
[20:51:52] <fenn> how much?
[20:51:56] <toastatwork> like 5k
[20:52:02] <toastatwork> usd
[20:52:27] <fenn> they had one in the chemistry department, my dad (chemistry professor) called it "the fart machine"
[20:52:36] <toastatwork> hahah
[20:52:55] <archivist> I dont fart nitrogen
[20:53:09] <fenn> H2S maybe
[20:53:20] <archivist> that may imply something else :)
[20:57:47] <skunkworks_> you do know it is big oil suppressing all the high efficiency stuff.. ;)
[20:58:05] <skunkworks_> (150mpg carb)
[20:59:09] <toastatwork> is there a book somewhere that has all the math for combustion engines
[20:59:49] <skunkworks_> A guy here at work (he also tried to make a perpetual motion machine) make one of the electrolisizer(sp) for his car. He came back the next day and said 'it doesn't make much hydrogen'
[21:00:26] <toastatwork> haha.
[21:02:50] <skunkworks_> the same company that sells the 'power supplies' also sell magic O2 recalibrators. (so I would guess it leans your engine out also)
[21:04:58] <archivist> I have a few books at home from the Lucas technical library when the Birmingham factory shut and although they did early fuel injection and other work I dont remember any hydrogen snake oil in the books
[21:08:08] <jepler> Results 1 - 10 of about 459 for "eternal combustion engine". (0.20 seconds)
[21:11:44] <cradek> Results 1 - 10 of about 753 for "infernal combustion engine". (0.26 seconds)
[21:12:34] <alex_joni> Results 1 - 10 of about 17,400 for infernal combustion engine.
[21:12:45] <alex_joni> (0.28 seconds)
[21:22:22] <tomaw> [Global Notice] Hi all. One of our client servers is having some connectivity problems. Please keep with us while we investigate. Thanks!
[22:08:33] <jepler> oh boy. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page
[22:09:46] <cradek> Is it possible to build a device in which the forward motion turns a wheel that turns a propeller which provides enough wind propulsion to accelerate the device forward faster than the air around it? You would think not,
[22:10:03] <cradek> yeah that's pretty much right - I would think not
[22:10:42] <seb_kuzminsky> cool, they are exploiting the zero-point field
[22:10:42] <skunkworks_> people are idiots
[22:10:57] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: it doesnt *take* all kinds, we just *have* all kinds ;-)
[22:11:36] <alex_joni> oh my
[22:12:18] <skunkworks_> I like the treadmill one.. Does anyone wonder how much power the treadmill is taking? ;)
[22:22:50] <archivist> hehe another idiot with magnets, we have a local here must get his name to see if any link
[22:29:14] <fragalot> ?
[22:35:17] <archivist> see peswiki link above
[23:08:58] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:09:05] <seb_kuzminsky> goodnight alex
[23:39:33] <BigJohnT> I found a vhs tape of pictures from the 50's of my family in my dads things... how can I convert that to dvd to share with my family
[23:42:17] <archivist> just go to a local photographic supplier they will know someone with the right gear
[23:42:55] <BigJohnT> ok
[23:44:18] <archivist> becoming a more regular service, some video capure cards can deal with SVHS in but quality may not be as good (needs a timebase corrector)
[23:45:47] <BigJohnT> I know my older sister and mom would like to see them... I'll check what is here in the back woods
[23:46:49] <BigJohnT> gotta go talk to you later
[23:47:21] <archivist> BigJohnT, do you have the original 50's pics
[23:49:02] <archivist> some people need training to leave the client connected