#emc | Logs for 2008-12-08

[00:35:55] <cradek> "Experience indicates that 2-door vehicles will usually have 11 bolts around the perimeter and 4-door vehicles will be equipped with 10." [factory service manual]
[00:37:29] <JymmmEMC> lol
[00:54:56] <eric_u> amc?
[00:55:21] <JymmmEMC> GREMLINS RULE!!!
[00:55:38] <cradek> I assume they mean it really depends on how many times it's been taken apart before
[00:55:43] <eric_u> what was the car that looked like a mushroom?
[00:55:56] <JymmmEMC> Mario Cart
[00:56:03] <cradek> ha
[00:57:26] <eric_u> Pacer
[00:58:39] <eric_u> I still can't believe that Mikey from OCC always dreamed of a Matador
[01:22:11] <Guest302> Hello there.dose any body know if there is any work being done on EMC2 to employ the use of Sercos based servo drives
[01:23:09] <eric_u> he was impatient
[01:23:41] <eric_u> sercos and similar protocols aren't really that easy to implement in emc
[01:25:09] <Guest851> it would just be nice to ditch all the breakout boards and let the drives do all the work
[01:25:53] <eric_u> people have been asking that question for years, and yet nobody has made it work
[01:25:57] <eric_u> afaik
[01:26:20] <eric_u> commercially, Aerotech sells systems like that
[01:26:30] <eric_u> so it is possible
[01:26:46] <eric_u> they use real time windows though
[01:26:51] <Guest851> is it emc based or something else
[01:27:05] <Guest851> some time windows u mean
[01:27:06] <eric_u> it's proprietary
[01:27:30] <eric_u> the real time windows runs underneath windows, just like the real time linuxes
[01:59:58] <dmess> hey JP
[02:07:21] <dmess> im off
[05:21:11] <dave_1> look like a few nightowls are still here
[05:22:32] <dave_1> hmmmm! heads tucked under wing.
[05:22:34] <SWPadnos> more like night-chickens
[05:22:42] <dave_1> hi Steve
[05:22:46] <SWPadnos> hi Dave
[05:23:01] <dave_1> need some advice ....
[05:23:06] <SWPadnos> uh-oh
[05:23:17] <dave_1> Oh, this one should be easy.
[05:23:24] <SWPadnos> :)
[05:24:11] <dave_1> I have Ubuntu 6.06 loaded on a dual 64 bit amd ... was going to upgrade it at fest but never go there
[05:24:40] <dave_1> so what is the easy ... with emphasis on easy upgrade to 8.04
[05:25:01] <SWPadnos> well, that's not a simple question :)
[05:25:10] <dave_1> darned ...
[05:25:32] <SWPadnos> you have two options: 1) upgrade in place or 2) save your data and blow it away while installing 8.04 from CD
[05:25:48] <dave_1> at this point it is going to be a desktop machine for support of synergy
[05:25:50] <SWPadnos> in either case, you should save your data somewhere like a USB stick
[05:25:56] <SWPadnos> oh, ok
[05:26:15] <dave_1> 2... is OK data is on another disk which I can add later and copy across
[05:26:51] <SWPadnos> do you have 6.06 i386 or x86_64?
[05:27:04] <SWPadnos> ^which
[05:27:21] <dave_1> probably i386
[05:27:31] <SWPadnos> if you're on one arch and you want to change to the other, I'd suggest a reinstall
[05:28:05] <dave_1> it would be nice to try the smp since I have two processors
[05:28:13] <SWPadnos> reinstallation isn't necessary, but it does leave you with a system in a known state
[05:28:25] <dave_1> known states are nice
[05:28:32] <SWPadnos> are you planning on EMC+RT or stock Ubuntu?
[05:28:51] <SWPadnos> (realizing that sim EMC2 will install on stock Ubuntu)
[05:29:21] <dave_1> I see no reason not to get my feet wet with rt since the machine is supposed to do machine control someplace down the road.
[05:29:41] <dave_1> On the other hand I've been doing quite well with sim for testing gcode
[05:29:59] <SWPadnos> the RT+SMP kernel is not well used ...
[05:30:39] <dave_1> I understand it may not be too stable .... maybe it is safer to stay with ix86
[05:30:52] <dave_1> ... i386
[05:31:05] <SWPadnos> SMP and i386 are different questions
[05:31:15] <SWPadnos> (sometimes with the same answer ;) )
[05:31:23] <dave_1> OK
[05:31:53] <SWPadnos> personally, I think I'd just install stock 8.04/x86_64 on it, blowing away what was there
[05:32:18] <dave_1> OK ... stay away frm rt
[05:32:29] <SWPadnos> but that's because I don't really know a lot about administering Linux machines, and I haven't set things up so I can easily customize Ubuntu how I like it
[05:33:06] <SWPadnos> well, if you don't plan to use it for a while, then there's no sense having the few headaches it does bring (like not being able to use power saving or power down the machine)
[05:34:11] <SWPadnos> I'm sure others would give you different advice though, it really depends a lot on you (the upgrader)
[05:34:12] <dave_1> where do I find the. 8.04 x86_64 system?
[05:34:18] <SWPadnos> ubuntu.com
[05:34:24] <dave_1> OK
[05:34:28] <dave_1> tha is easy
[05:34:39] <SWPadnos> I think that's it - could be .org or something
[05:35:06] <SWPadnos> but it's the same place you see the i386 discs - you may have to click some "see all available versions" type of link though
[05:35:24] <SWPadnos> how much memory do you have in this machine?
[05:35:31] <dave_1> 2 G
[05:35:56] <SWPadnos> ok, that's not a problem for i386, but it could be if you want to add more (with almost-free memory these days)
[05:36:37] <dave_1> but it is for the _64 ??
[05:36:55] <SWPadnos> no, amd64 can go to a few hundred G I think
[05:37:25] <dave_1> there have been some comments on limiting to 1 G but I've not followed closely
[05:37:37] <SWPadnos> i386 can't use more than 3.something unless you have PAE enabled (which I think is not the default), which slows everything down a little
[05:37:49] <SWPadnos> the 1G thing should be fixed, and is an RTAI only problem
[05:37:59] <dave_1> OK
[05:38:33] <dave_1> sure like to know what the system in doing .... the disk has been just pounding away with the machine just sitting there.
[05:38:45] <dave_1> I'm on another machine
[05:38:55] <SWPadnos> updatedb perhaps
[05:39:20] <dave_1> guess I should see what is running
[05:39:40] <SWPadnos> top is your friend
[05:39:48] <SWPadnos> gotta get to bed. good luck with it
[05:40:01] <dave_1> thanks ....
[05:40:05] <SWPadnos> (and if you don't like my answer, feel free to ask anyone else and get a different one, guaranteed! :) )
[05:40:25] <dave_1> Yep I get to take my chances. :-)
[05:40:31] <DanielFalck> dave_1: hi
[05:40:34] <dave_1> appreciate the commends
[05:40:38] <dave_1> HI Dan
[05:41:05] <DanielFalck> I upgraded this machine from 6.0... to 8.04 incrementally
[05:41:20] <DanielFalck> went from 6.0.. to 7.10 to 8.04
[05:41:25] <DanielFalck> without a CD
[05:41:33] <DanielFalck> just updated over the net
[05:42:19] <dave_1> that might be the way to go.
[05:42:31] <DanielFalck> I read somewhere that a few had problems upgrading straight away from 6 to 8
[05:42:45] <dave_1> net was hot this afternoon. ... > 500K/s
[05:43:01] <DanielFalck> can't exactly remember why, but I played it safe and did some reading on the ubuntu forums
[05:43:38] <dave_1> anything that works
[05:43:43] <DanielFalck> it took a while doing it that way, but it worked
[05:44:17] <dave_1> I like reliable
[05:45:32] <dave_1> I'm trying to learn some of the synergy 3D and having variable success.
[05:45:51] <dave_1> that is what is driving the upgrade.
[05:46:20] <DanielFalck> I found a video somewhere of Bob W. showing off the system with Smithy
[05:46:29] <DanielFalck> looked interesting
[05:47:15] <dave_1> that is a cute system ... maybe not right for what I'm doing but nice for the intermediate stuff.
[05:47:45] <dave_1> I keep hearing about it but have not seen it in action.
[05:49:14] <dave_1> I'm going to go off and surf Ubuntu ...
[05:49:22] <dave_1> catch you later
[05:49:24] <DanielFalck> chat with you later
[05:49:30] <dave_1> take care
[05:49:40] <DanielFalck> you too
[05:53:40] <stustev1> dan: are you still around?
[05:53:49] <DanielFalck> hi
[05:53:51] <DanielFalck> yes
[05:53:56] <stustev1> good evening
[05:54:02] <DanielFalck> how are things?
[05:54:08] <stustev1> I just have a minute
[05:54:29] <stustev1> I have some files I would like you to download and see if they will work in apt360
[05:54:34] <DanielFalck> ok
[05:54:40] <DanielFalck> on your ftp site?
[05:54:44] <stustev1> yes
[05:54:52] <DanielFalck> remind me of the link
[05:55:06] <stustev1> in the cinci directory www.mpm1.com:8080/
[05:55:27] <DanielFalck> ok,I'm there
[05:55:29] <stustev1> the file names are cincigeocomp.geo and Acomp.geo
[05:55:52] <stustev1> the file Bcomp.geo is there but it is not accurate there yet
[05:56:05] <stustev1> these files do no motion - they just manipulate data
[05:56:13] <DanielFalck> ok
[05:56:51] <stustev1> give them a look see and let me know - see you later - thanks
[05:57:04] <DanielFalck> ok, did Eric W. call you this week?
[05:57:28] <stustev1> not that I remember - what would his conversation have been?
[05:57:45] <DanielFalck> he's a programmer- linux/perl cadcam stuff
[05:57:56] <DanielFalck> I recommended that he give you a call
[05:58:10] <DanielFalck> we might be able to work together on some open source cadcam stuff
[05:58:11] <stustev1> I haven't talked to him yet
[05:58:21] <DanielFalck> ok, I'll prod him tomorrow
[05:58:23] <stustev1> that would be very nice
[05:58:26] <stustev1> thanks
[05:58:40] <DanielFalck> I'll let you know about the files in a day
[05:58:48] <stustev1> ok
[05:58:51] <stustev1> good night
[05:58:58] <DanielFalck> good night
[14:21:36] <toastydeath> somebody's a douchebag
[14:21:38] <toastydeath> hint: it's me
[14:21:52] <toastydeath> i forgot a calculus project that was due today
[14:21:52] <alex_joni> toastydeath's a douchebag
[14:21:57] <toastydeath> so hurr durr i'm doing it now
[14:24:53] <alex_joni> whee... http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/08/review_gadget_webcam_wowwee_rovio_mobile/
[14:32:37] <eric_u> that's cute
[14:32:54] <Guest876> Guest876 is now known as skunkworks_
[18:01:38] <archivist> danheeks, I just noticed your hostmask btcentralplus, you must be within a distance
[18:05:04] <danheeks> hello, archivist. I don't know what a hostmask is, we get our internet from bt
[18:05:44] <alex_joni> danheeks [n=danheeks@host86-159-6-118.range86-159.btcentralplus.com]
[18:05:45] <alex_joni> has joined #emc
[18:05:49] <alex_joni> that's a hostmask ;)
[18:07:09] <danheeks> Anyway, Does anyone know if I can try out gdepth on Windows, or will I have to install Linux?
[18:08:49] <alex_joni> I think you'll have a hard time getting it to run on windows
[18:11:32] <archivist> danheeks, btw Im in the east midlands near Swadlincote at the moment
[18:14:23] <danielheeks> Sorry, I got disconnected, when I moved my laptop. Is Ubuntu OK for trying gdepth, do you think, or would you recommend a different Linux?
[18:14:53] <archivist> ubuntu is fine
[18:15:17] <danielheeks> Thanks.
[18:21:44] <alex_joni> you can try a LiveCD, so no need for installing
[18:24:09] <danielheeks> I can try it on my mum's laptop, which I have already put Ubuntu on. Regarding the "within a distance" question. I live near Malvern, England. I have a Sieg KX1 milling machine. I am writing a free CAD program HeeksCAD, but it's only for Windows, so far. I'll try and make it build for Linux, next. I'll try doing a dual boot on my PC.
[18:32:51] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[19:28:20] <alex_joni> did you ever have issues with vmware's bridged networking not working?
[19:44:10] <alex_joni> meh, had to reboot the host
[19:55:41] <Guest260> Hey - look at this http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=428
[19:56:03] <SWPadnos> wow, his own forum :)
[19:56:07] <Guest260> Guest260 is now known as skunkworks_
[19:56:27] <skunkworks_> he doesn't seem like the forum type ;)
[19:56:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:57:20] <SWPadnos> it may be better for him actually - you can set it so you get emails when there are replies to your posts (or watched threads), and he seems to be much better with email than with e.g. IRC
[19:57:22] <alex_joni> heh :)
[20:20:52] <Vortex2> hello
[20:21:08] <Vortex2> quick question
[20:21:38] <Vortex2> how to connect hali pin to emergency stop
[20:21:49] <Vortex2> HAL pin I ment
[20:22:17] <Vortex2> I need to do software emergency stop
[20:24:34] <SWPadnos> software + emergency = WRONG!
[20:24:56] <Vortex2> Why
[20:25:14] <Vortex2> Of course there will be normal
[20:25:21] <SWPadnos> because software can't be relied upon to do anything in an emergency
[20:25:44] <SWPadnos> so you need to make sure that motors stop moving in hardware, and you can optionally tell EMC that they've been disabled :)
[20:25:45] <Vortex2> But I need this to stop machine and turnoff servos
[20:26:31] <Vortex2> if two servos are not syncroniced
[20:26:32] <SWPadnos> consider what happens if an encoder comes loose and the servo drive tries to run it into the end stop (or worse, your hand)
[20:26:49] <SWPadnos> this can happen with EMC not commanding any motion
[20:27:16] <SWPadnos> the e-stop button should disable the motors in hardware
[20:27:19] <Vortex2> I did write new Hal component that supervices that two servos are in syncrone
[20:27:41] <anonimasu> Vortex2: you should add a hardware trigger to your estop loop
[20:28:07] <SWPadnos> "emergency stop" and "please stop soon" are different functions, only one of which can be done with software
[20:28:11] <anonimasu> that lets you trigger a estop(turn off motors/drives/stuff) with a signal _if_ you need to via software
[20:28:12] <SWPadnos> e-stop requires hardware
[20:28:30] <Vortex2> <SWPadnos> e-stop requires hardware: OFF COURCE
[20:28:42] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: he wants a runaway servo to estop the machine..
[20:28:48] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: hardware estop if I get it right
[20:29:03] <anonimasu> Vortex2: right?
[20:29:03] <Vortex2> but i need paraller system which can trigger emcy stop by software
[20:29:39] <Vortex2> anonimasu: You hit the nail
[20:29:52] <anonimasu> I'd hook up a relay to the estop loop(nc loop) and then send a signal to break the loop when something happens
[20:30:00] <Vortex2> Finnish saying
[20:30:01] <SWPadnos> ok, so you have the hardware already, and you want EMC to notice when the servos have shut down
[20:30:16] <SWPadnos> (that's acceptable :) )
[20:30:38] <Vortex2> SWPadnos: relay is too slow
[20:31:02] <SWPadnos> for what?
[20:31:04] <anonimasu> ie + [button][relay][power relay]
[20:31:13] <Vortex2> I need software signal that can trigger emcy stop
[20:31:14] <anonimasu> you are kidding right?
[20:31:47] <Vortex2> If servo runs away output controllin relay ect == too slow
[20:32:07] <SWPadnos> what makes you think software would be any faster?
[20:32:09] <anonimasu> it works for bigger machines then yours and faster
[20:34:02] <Vortex2> Why not just connect software signal to trigger emcy stop, give me a good reason why not
[20:34:09] <SWPadnos> I've got to get some food. Vortex2, I'd strongly recommend that you read about how emergency stop needs to work, and think about exactly what you need to make the machine safe
[20:34:33] <SWPadnos> question: how would the software estop output get activated?
[20:34:46] <SWPadnos> does the user press F1 or click a button on the GUI?
[20:34:57] <Vortex2> no no no nooooo
[20:35:10] <Vortex2> This will be paraller system
[20:35:39] <Vortex2> there will be normal emcy stop system working correctrly
[20:35:40] <anonimasu> Vortex2: to be frank, there's no way to stop a runaway servo without killing power to the drive
[20:35:47] <SWPadnos> ok, so you have hardware that will stop the machine, and this is an extra thing to tell EMC that the system is in E-stop?
[20:36:05] <anonimasu> it might be a driver that's faulted or something too
[20:36:19] <Vortex2> exacly
[20:36:32] <SWPadnos> ok, in that case look at the pins for motion :)
[20:37:36] <anonimasu> or a dropped encoder..
[20:37:44] <Vortex2> each servo drive is feeded trough power realy, when i give normal or soft emcy stop it kills emc and driver
[20:37:49] <SWPadnos> the "external system is ready" input is called iocontrol.emc-enable-in
[20:38:02] <Vortex2> sorry mend drives
[20:38:34] <SWPadnos> there's also a component called estop-latch (or similar) that you can use to control how the estop system (software and hardware) get reset
[20:39:14] <SWPadnos> iocontrol also has an output so you can put a relay in the estop chain (from emc), called iocontrol.user-enable-out
[20:39:16] <cradek> in my opinion, ladder is easier
[20:39:17] <Vortex2> I do this safety related programing and desing in work
[20:39:36] <Vortex2> for human lifting machines
[20:39:52] <SWPadnos> ok, god. I think there I understood some of your words poorly there
[20:40:02] <Vortex2> and soft based emcy stop is allowed in there
[20:40:20] <anonimasu> weird..
[20:40:30] <anonimasu> last time I checked the CE certification papers
[20:40:31] <SWPadnos> interesting. it's completely forbidden in the semiconductor and machine tool industries AFAIK
[20:40:41] <anonimasu> it was MANDATORY
[20:40:59] <SWPadnos> "it" being hardware e-stop :)
[20:41:06] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:41:16] <SWPadnos> food time. bye bye
[20:41:25] <Vortex2> It can be used as parallel system
[20:41:28] <anonimasu> well, one "master" stop that stops the machien no matter what happens..
[20:41:48] <jymm> commonly called THE BIG RED BUTTON
[20:41:52] <anonimasu> how will you kill power to your drives except with a relay?
[20:41:56] <Vortex2> Still there has to be harware based
[20:42:05] <anonimasu> even if you have a paralell loop you need to make them stop...
[20:42:32] <anonimasu> and I would say the most likely cause for your servos to go unsynched is a lose encoder cable or something like that
[20:43:00] <anonimasu> or tach(if your motors have have that)
[20:43:10] <Vortex2> that kills output drivers by sofware and suthdown hydraulic by hardware in case of software malfunction
[20:43:59] <Vortex2> This system only makes it more safely
[20:45:43] <jymm> "the system" ? as in computer?
[20:45:56] <Vortex2> control system
[20:46:11] <Vortex2> includin computer IO modules ect
[20:46:22] <jymm> tcomputer makes it WORSE
[20:46:42] <Vortex2> yes But there has to be one
[20:47:07] <anonimasu> Vortex2: so how will you stop the machine when something happens (out of sync)
[20:47:11] <jymm> It's called EMERGENCY STOP, not OH-shit-I-screwed-up stop, even if that is how many ppl think of it as
[20:47:36] <Vortex2> anonimasu
[20:47:42] <Vortex2> yes
[20:48:09] <anonimasu> I dont get how you will do it in hardware.
[20:48:32] <Vortex2> jymm: if servos go unsyc. Is that good reason not to react fast
[20:48:43] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:48:51] <anonimasu> Vortex2: how do you do that?
[20:48:52] <jymm> Vortex2: sounds like an oh-shit stop to me
[20:48:57] <Vortex2> which reacts to that situation faster human or computer
[20:49:14] <anonimasu> Vortex2: let's cut to the crap, how will you kill your drives when that happens?
[20:49:56] <anonimasu> real life situation, you are cutting something, it comes loose and rips a encoder cable off one of your motors
[20:50:03] <jymm> Vortex2: the computer/controller can TRIGGER the REAL ESTOP, but should not actually BE the REAL ESTOP, iirc EU says that no electronics can be used in the real estop, except for safety relay.
[20:50:26] <anonimasu> your motors will get unsync:ed.
[20:50:30] <jymm> and even then it's a dual safety relay setup
[20:50:35] <anonimasu> Vortex2: now what?
[20:50:38] <Vortex2> anonimasu: I did wrote HAL component that supervisors two servos(encoders) if they go unsync it turns off one HAL pin
[20:51:09] <anonimasu> Vortex2: you miss the point, one of your motors will be running away until you cut power to your drive.
[20:51:23] <anonimasu> s/drive/drives
[20:51:58] <anonimasu> Vortex2: how will you do that, when you say it cant be by relay?
[20:52:15] <Vortex2> Drives has emcy stop input that halt the drives 3 times more quikly than cutting of drives power
[20:52:32] <Vortex2> we are not talking abaut DIY driver
[20:52:37] <Vortex2> drives
[20:53:07] <Vortex2> These are top of the line AC-servo driver
[20:53:13] <Vortex2> drives
[20:54:02] <anonimasu> well, there you have it..
[20:55:13] <Vortex2> Drives are allready connected to motioncontroller
[20:56:05] <anonimasu> you have a external estop too that kills power too right?
[20:56:10] <anonimasu> like the big red button?
[20:57:03] <Vortex2> like i mentioned above Machine allready has working estop circuit
[20:57:21] <anonimasu> why not just hook the input of the drives up ?
[20:57:53] <Vortex2> Dont want to make another connections
[20:58:56] <Vortex2> Because i can trigger same happening by software
[21:00:02] <Vortex2> this why It triggers EMC Estop and because of that It turns of outputs which feed e_Stop Circuit
[21:00:11] <Vortex2> ect...
[21:00:47] <jymm> Vortex2: Simple question.... are you using computer for primary control of EMERGENCY STOP circuit?
[21:01:58] <Vortex2> No feedin it
[21:02:44] <Vortex2> Thaks I need to only turn of Uotput that feeds eStop circuit
[21:02:45] <jymm> Vortex2: So your existing ESTOP system on the machine, is fully relay controlled, no electronics or computers involved and once triggered removes ALL power?
[21:02:53] <Vortex2> thats it
[21:03:35] <fragalot> who was it in here that had his Z axis drop down if the power was cut?
[21:03:40] <fragalot> that type of E-stop would be nice for him :p
[21:04:05] <Vortex2> Power to Emcy circuit is feeded from one output
[21:04:42] <jymm> Vortex2: to be honest, can't make head or tails, would need to see diagrams to confirm
[21:05:02] <Vortex2> if software goes nuts it propaply turn off that output and emcy stop is activated
[21:05:10] <Vortex2> ok
[21:06:38] <jepler> Vortex2: so in your configuration you have a HAL signal which is TRUE when the machine is OK, and FALSE when the machine should drop into emergency stop mode? it seems to me that you need a relay on your estop chain that is pulled in when that value is TRUE, and released when it is FALSE. But besides the line where you hook that signal to a physical output pin, it doesn't seem much like a HAL question, more about your machine's estop chain, which we do
[21:08:17] <Vortex2> I figured oput what to do thaks
[21:08:58] <jepler> the demo_mazak configuration has to interact with a real external estop chain, but that part of it's not terribly well commented
[21:09:20] <jepler> I don't think we have any example configurations besides that that do, because each real estop chain is different, and you are the only one who can evaluate your own safety requirements
[21:09:42] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?MazakEstopChain :)
[21:12:40] <Vortex2> Mazak gives ESTOP in case of over travel why is that ok but not ok when two servos are not sycroniced
[21:13:21] <SWPadnos> I think there's confusion here about where the source of the stop command comes from, and how safe that is
[21:13:43] <SWPadnos> you can do whatever you want to tell EMC to stop moving the machine
[21:14:23] <SWPadnos> "sync loss" is something like hitting a limit switch - it may be recoverable, and it doesn't necessarily put the operator in danger
[21:15:15] <Vortex2> But hitting a limit switch gives estop in most of casis
[21:15:16] <SWPadnos> so that's perfectly fine either in the estop chain (if you can detect it in hardware), or as an input to EMC asking for a software controlled stop
[21:15:21] <SWPadnos> yes it does
[21:15:49] <SWPadnos> but note that the limit switch would cause hardware (contactors and whatnot) to stop machine motion
[21:16:50] <Vortex2> Yes normaly closed is used to ensure that they brake circuit
[21:17:52] <Vortex2> In most cases they has to be douplets NO and NC
[21:18:05] <SWPadnos> right.
[21:18:36] <Vortex2> System gives switch malfunction alarm if bought of NC and NO are in same state
[21:19:04] <SWPadnos> so the way to havea parallel port pin tell EMC that the machine is disabled is to connect something like net ext-stop parport.0.pin-01-in iocontrol.emc-enable-in
[21:19:31] <Vortex2> Im workin on filting system software and system will be SIL3 clasified
[21:20:48] <Vortex2> This safety thing is realy something that i know, But these regulations are europe based they may differ from yours
[21:21:31] <SWPadnos> could be. usually CE is a little tougher than "industry" here, with the exception of the semicondustor industry
[21:21:37] <SWPadnos> they're really paranoid :)
[21:23:50] <jymm> I think Alex told me that EU requires a double-estop circuit
[21:24:02] <jymm> in case one fails
[21:24:26] <jymm> SWPadnos: (eg two safety relays wired together)
[21:24:50] <SWPadnos> for some things, I'm sure that's true
[21:25:01] <SWPadnos> he works with robots, which may have different requirements
[21:25:04] <skunkworks_> only 2?
[21:25:05] <skunkworks_> ;)
[21:25:12] <SWPadnos> 2 MILLION!
[21:25:33] <jymm> skunkworks: Hey, that's better than what I hear sometimes and NO REAL estop, all soft stops
[21:25:35] <Vortex2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_Integrity_Level
[21:25:52] <Vortex2> here somethig about SIL levels
[21:28:18] <jepler> "probability of failure on demand". I must not understand what "demand" means.
[21:29:24] <SWPadnos> I bet that's the probability that the safety system will fail when it's needed (the demand is there)
[21:29:46] <SWPadnos> so 1 in 1000-10000 times, the safety system will fail for SIL 3
[21:30:01] <jepler> how do you determine how often failure is demanded, though?
[21:30:12] <jepler> if it's only demanded once a day you'll be fine -- but once a second, and you're up the creek
[21:30:34] <jepler> (I'm sure it's perfectly well defined in one of those referenced standards, just commenting that it seems weird to demand failure)
[21:31:32] <Vortex2> Usualy those are failure rate infomet in this way 1/300000 per hour
[21:31:52] <Vortex2> 1/xxxxxxxxx failures per hour
[21:32:42] <Vortex2> if you have two of these components in system case of failure is 2/xxxxxxx so on
[22:05:23] <jepler> ugh. http://dev.emcelettronica.com/microchip-and-onsemi-semiconductor-want-buy-atmel
[22:05:45] <SWPadnos> ewww
[23:49:03] <dave_1> need some help on Ubuntu ... yes I know this is the emc forum but maybe someone can help :-)
[23:49:51] <dave_1> start Ubuntu 8.04 32 bit install from CD ... stops at initramfs
[23:50:31] <dave_1> 64 bit install worked fine but won't run my app
[23:51:42] <SWPadnos> can you tell why the app wouldn't run on 64 bit?
[23:52:08] <dave_1> nope ... the system doesn/t even recognize it.
[23:52:28] <dave_1> probably because of Qt4 libs
[23:52:40] <SWPadnos> so you were able to install it, but when you run (from a terminal), you see no output of any kind?
[23:52:52] <dave_1> yep!
[23:53:08] <SWPadnos> ok, I hada similar problem with Xilinx ISE
[23:53:26] <dave_1> it says no such file or directory
[23:53:28] <SWPadnos> luckily the web knew the answer, because I didn't know quite enough to find it
[23:53:44] <SWPadnos> does it tell you which file or directory it's looking for?
[23:53:57] <dave_1> no
[23:54:11] <SWPadnos> ok, then you should be able to strace it
[23:54:21] <SWPadnos> strace <yourprogram>
[23:54:32] <dave_1> I'm trying to start synergy ... and all the files show with ls but nothing happens
[23:54:35] <SWPadnos> you may want to use script or tee, strace output can get pretty long
[23:54:50] <SWPadnos> the problem I had was that the 32-bit version of a library wasn't installed
[23:55:38] <SWPadnos> once I found out which one it was, I was able to install it manually (by downloading the 32-bit version from packages.ubuntu.com, using the archiver to extract the libs, and copying those libs to /lib32/)
[23:56:38] <dave_1> I'm booting the system now so we'll see what we get
[23:57:15] <SWPadnos> FWIW, I don't know why installing 32-bit wouldn't work - the reason could be as simple as a failed CD burn