#emc | Logs for 2008-11-25

[00:11:54] <BigJohnT> WooHoo, my wife just shot her deer...
[00:12:14] <LawrenceG> did it hurt?
[00:12:34] <BigJohnT> she didn't complain
[00:12:44] <LawrenceG> :}
[00:14:20] <BigJohnT> she shot it at 150 yards
[00:15:23] <LawrenceG> steaming venison steaks for dinner?
[00:15:59] <BigJohnT> actually chicken n dumplings tonight
[00:16:08] <BigJohnT> the deer is hanging in a tree
[00:19:59] <BigJohnT> http://imagebin.ca/view/ZW45GT.html
[00:59:38] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X: did you see my wife's deer?
[01:00:32] <Gamma-X> sick! lol just like the same picture last year only u were in it haha.
[01:00:59] <BigJohnT> yep
[01:01:39] <jmkasunich> photoshop is great isn't it ;-)
[01:01:46] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:04:53] <BigJohnT> I don't have photoshop...
[01:08:18] <skunkworks> heh
[01:09:30] <SWPadnos> cradek, yes, I saw it (from Kirk Wallace though, not Peter :) )
[01:53:21] <JymmmEMC> Heh, at least she has the camo shirt if nothing else =)
[01:58:48] <dmess> what caliber did it in
[02:56:33] <a-l-p-h-a> alex_joni, you around?
[02:56:43] <a-l-p-h-a> wait.. doubtful... it's like 3am or something your time
[02:56:56] <a-l-p-h-a> 5am.
[02:57:28] <a-l-p-h-a> Who's a programmer... I started a new website. lol. http://www.botchedcode.com
[03:00:12] <dmess> alpha... we try really NOT to bothc-code... keep it real is the deal... how you been??
[03:03:12] <dmess> no botchred G-code to s mschine please... or maybe thankyou as long as i get the repair job... ;)
[04:19:55] <seb_kuzminsky> hi eric
[04:20:01] <ehj> Hey Sebastian, you there?
[04:20:05] <ehj> hi
[04:20:26] <seb_kuzminsky> peter just replied with a jumper setting question
[04:20:34] <ehj> Yes, I reboot and tested.
[04:20:35] <ehj> k
[04:20:54] <seb_kuzminsky> did you set the 7i43 up per the Jumper Settings part of the hm2_7i43(9) manpage?
[04:21:59] <ehj> The jumpers are in the default, as shipped positions. Checking now.
[04:22:11] <seb_kuzminsky> ah ok
[04:22:23] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont remember what the defaults are
[04:22:46] <ehj> pulling up the manual now
[04:23:38] <seb_kuzminsky> the jumper settings should be fully described in the manpage, if not i need to make it more complete and explicit
[04:26:32] <ehj> I went to the manual. As Peter just said in an email, the jumpers are in the USB position. Resetting now.
[04:26:38] <seb_kuzminsky> ah heh
[04:26:48] <toastydeath> who in here tried to progeram the lathe automatic stock removal cycles once
[04:26:52] <toastydeath> *program
[04:27:54] <toastydeath> because the fanuc manual has a visual description of how it handles the process
[04:28:03] <toastydeath> i think i could scan it and email it to someoen if they're interested
[04:28:05] <toastydeath> *someone
[04:28:20] <ehj> Ok, that was it.
[04:28:58] <seb_kuzminsky> ehj: great!
[04:29:04] <seb_kuzminsky> you have to email the list in penance!
[04:29:16] <seb_kuzminsky> i gotta go, i'll see you later :-)
[04:29:27] <ehj> I am getting an unexpected real time delay, that I was not getting with the 5i20 (same basic configuration except the driver).
[04:29:44] <ehj> But I will look into that later.
[04:29:45] <cradek> toastydeath: I've thought about it, but never gotten past the "that seems pretty complex to write" stage
[04:30:18] <cradek> and besides, lerman would kill us all if we tried to put something that complex in the interpreter
[04:30:24] <toastydeath> ah.
[04:30:40] <toastydeath> i dunno though? it's just my opinion, but that's the most important lathe cycle ever
[04:30:55] <toastydeath> and it looks like they've got a pretty brief solution to it
[04:31:03] <toastydeath> i mean, compared to what i thought it would be
[04:31:30] <cradek> I wonder if you could find the same information online
[04:32:09] <toastydeath> hm
[04:32:16] <toastydeath> i don't know, i'll look
[04:32:32] <toastydeath> they scan across the part until they hit a wall, and machine to it
[04:32:59] <toastydeath> it's hard to explain i guess, nevermind
[04:33:10] <cradek> I think I know what you mean, seems simple enough
[04:33:21] <toastydeath> when they get to the bottom of the first pit, they go up and over the first barrier
[04:33:25] <toastydeath> and continue "scanning" across
[04:33:35] <toastydeath> dunno
[04:33:53] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijWwfcw0FOo&feature=related
[04:33:55] <cradek> but when you try to calculate all the endpoints, and prevent gouging, and deal with cutter radius ...
[04:33:57] <toastydeath> arc furnace
[04:34:04] <toastydeath> cradek: they don't deal with cutter radius
[04:34:11] <toastydeath> explicitly, it's disabled during the roughing cycle
[04:34:35] <cradek> oh I see, that would help
[04:34:38] <toastydeath> it looks like they establish a series of points
[04:34:46] <toastydeath> in layers you specify as the depth
[04:35:01] <toastydeath> and machine to those points
[04:35:09] <cradek> still have to generate all the endpoints/motions
[04:35:16] <toastydeath> yeah
[04:35:33] <toastydeath> well the motions are simple, if you see the graph
[04:35:36] <toastydeath> i'll try to scan it
[04:35:37] <cradek> I wish I had it, but it's hard to do
[04:35:38] <toastydeath> tommorow
[04:35:41] <cradek> ok
[04:35:47] <toastydeath> it's the endpoints only that I see as being hard
[04:35:56] <cradek> (make sure the manual doesn't say you can't do that...)
[04:35:57] <toastydeath> w/e
[04:36:02] <toastydeath> oh, sure
[04:36:04] <DanielFalck> toastydeath: what manual are you looking at? OT?
[04:36:24] <toastydeath> danielfalck: 0T/0TC/0TTC
[04:36:26] <DanielFalck> we have OT manual at work
[04:37:09] <toastydeath> in the manual under G71, there's a picture that shows how they decide to rough nonmonotonous contours out
[04:37:52] <toastydeath> they impose horizontal lines over your contour, with the lines spaced as your depth of cut
[04:38:03] <toastydeath> wherever there's an intersection, there's a machining point
[06:34:28] <ds3> alex_joni: That was a temp location; It'll come back in a proper webpage with some write up
[06:38:43] <alex_joni> ds3: cool
[06:38:53] <alex_joni> good morning btw ;)
[06:40:13] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/OKUMA-LH-35N-3000-FLAT-BED-CNC-LATHE-1985-4405_W0QQitemZ330282012730QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
[06:40:17] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/MAZAK-M-4-x-60-centers-CNC-lathe-with-FANUC-6T-control_W0QQitemZ160282533001QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
[06:40:21] <toastydeath> christmas is coming!
[06:42:35] <BlackMoon> hi
[06:43:04] <alex_joni> hi
[06:44:00] <BlackMoon> Im thinking of getting into metal mechineing... Idealy CNC based.... and was thinking of http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=12737 to get me started (its local so, no S/H)
[06:44:29] <BlackMoon> But I have no idea what kinda proceedure is involved (if even possible) to turn that into a CNC, or if thats even the route I should go.
[06:44:57] <BlackMoon> (im very good with electronics/computer programming.. but not exactly experianced in CNC usage or well, making one..)
[06:45:03] <toastydeath> it is possible to turn that into cnc.
[06:45:11] <BlackMoon> Yay.
[06:45:14] <ds3> alex_joni: it is 2245 here
[06:45:18] <BlackMoon> Now is it possible to turn it into a good cnc? :)
[06:45:30] <toastydeath> haha, depends on your definition of good, and how much disposable income you have.
[06:45:41] <BlackMoon> Or would I be better off spending my $2000~ on a pre setup model
[06:45:42] <toastydeath> you can definately turn it into something that you can machine with, obviously.
[06:45:49] <ds3> and I looked at mesh_lab, it didn't seem to have that much point cloud stuff
[06:45:49] <toastydeath> not sure.
[06:46:13] <toastydeath> there are other people who have converted machines like that in this channel
[06:46:21] <BlackMoon> Anything heavyer then 600lb is basicly out as nobody will help me lift it down the stairs.. :P
[06:46:30] <toastydeath> hahah.
[06:46:56] <BlackMoon> And anything over $2500 initial cost is probley out cause well.. I just can't justify more atm for something iv never even used yaknow?
[06:47:02] <toastydeath> indeed
[06:47:07] <toastydeath> machining is an expensive past time
[06:47:20] <BlackMoon> its like wow that'd be really cool. but is it really more expensive then anything else I own cool?
[06:47:33] <toastydeath> hahahaha
[06:47:39] <toastydeath> depends on what you plan on doing
[06:47:43] <BlackMoon> Iv allready decided against 3-in-1 mechines since im not really intresting in latheing, and if I was one of those $500 mini lathes would probley do just fine for me
[06:48:00] <BlackMoon> I have a billion things I could be doing.
[06:48:20] <BlackMoon> making dies to cut out panels... cuting out said panels.. uhhh... making slots in things for stuff like belt tensioner arrangements....
[06:48:59] <toastydeath> i wish i could give you an idea of what it would cost to get that machine going
[06:49:05] <toastydeath> but some folks have managed to get machines up for like 700
[06:49:06] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon trys to come up with more things but can't since he doesnt really know what its even gonna be capable of :)
[06:49:34] <toastydeath> you are ahead of the game as that particular machine is rigid compared to what most people decide to CNC
[06:49:35] <BlackMoon> well, I could easily dump a grand in that to get it running nicely.. maybe 2 since its not 'initial' investment....
[06:49:42] <BlackMoon> yea :)
[06:50:10] <BlackMoon> iv seen like small tiags and its like hu, 60lb? doesnt my drill press that I basicly sent a carbide endmill to a sparking death in weigh more then that?
[06:50:40] <toastydeath> * toastydeath shrug
[06:50:41] <BlackMoon> (yea... allways adjust the gibs up tight before trying that shit in your new cheap crossslide vice... or better yet at least buy a table hahahah)
[06:50:53] <toastydeath> i wouldn't use carbide at all
[06:50:55] <toastydeath> in small machines
[06:50:59] <BlackMoon> no?
[06:51:05] <toastydeath> they're just no rigid enough, period
[06:51:24] <toastydeath> you can get them to work, but i'd prefer HSS
[06:51:25] <BlackMoon> yea as I said the vibration of mine was spiting out sparks hahhaa...
[06:51:30] <BlackMoon> Really?
[06:51:36] <toastydeath> really
[06:51:45] <BlackMoon> cause my previous metalwork experiance has allways told me carbide = the shit while HSS = just shit :)
[06:51:51] <toastydeath> nope
[06:52:04] <toastydeath> most of the endmills I use at work are HSS.
[06:52:11] <BlackMoon> Neat. what about smaller bits? like 3/16" and smaller?
[06:52:15] <BlackMoon> still HSS? or do they bend to much>?
[06:52:17] <toastydeath> and if an endmill is good enough for a $80k dollar milling machine
[06:52:26] <toastydeath> it's good enough for smaller machines, too
[06:52:30] <alex_joni> ds3: 08:44 < ds3> alex_joni: it is 2245 here
[06:52:35] <toastydeath> the deal isn't bending
[06:52:39] <toastydeath> the deal is heat capacity.
[06:52:47] <toastydeath> carbide has a very large heat capacity, but it's brittle.
[06:52:49] <BlackMoon> iv heard one guy going on about his HSS bits bending away in some milling operations
[06:52:55] <fenn> BlackMoon: stay away from the round column mills
[06:52:55] <toastydeath> all bits bends in milling operations
[06:53:11] <BlackMoon> fenn: really? even a 4 1/2" sucker?
[06:53:55] <BlackMoon> is the problem in the rigidity or getting the head back to 0 degrees?
[06:54:48] <fenn> it can get knocked loose, and also it's less rigid because the joint flexes
[06:55:00] <BlackMoon> joint?
[06:55:06] <fenn> the round clamp
[06:55:08] <BlackMoon> oh
[06:55:24] <fenn> it'd make a nice drill press i guess
[06:55:44] <BlackMoon> lol
[06:56:02] <BlackMoon> all they have is round there :(
[06:57:01] <BlackMoon> not to sure else where to shop (Canada, Bc, Vancouver)
[06:57:08] <fenn> i guess this is out of your price range: http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=169868
[06:57:30] <BlackMoon> Yea pertty much
[06:57:35] <fenn> anyway, used (not abused) machine tools are usually better
[06:58:10] <fenn> i'm sure there are some metal working societies in your area, you might want to look them up and ask around
[06:58:36] <BlackMoon> Yea iv seen some of those, except I have about a 600lb weight limit, and a 32" door
[06:58:48] <BlackMoon> And that kinda precludes those 1+ton monsters
[06:58:53] <BlackMoon> even if you can pick em up for under 2 grand
[06:59:37] <BlackMoon> and I have 0 skill to tell whats been abused or not
[06:59:55] <BlackMoon> and I don't have the dial indicators to check
[07:00:12] <BlackMoon> (shit I think my $20 die grinder is a precision engineered tool)
[07:00:44] <fenn> heh
[07:01:08] <BlackMoon> 'wow 25,000rpms, basicly 0 vibration and 0 explosions, GOOD ENGINEERING!'
[07:02:23] <fenn> here's an article related to that thought: http://fennetic.net/machines/index.php?scraping
[07:03:15] <BlackMoon> wtf is with the excessive links that lead directly back to where the link comes from?
[07:03:50] <fenn> if a word is the same as a page name it will get a link pointing to that page
[07:04:19] <toastydeath> it's a wiki
[07:04:28] <BlackMoon> ah. should filter out recursive links though
[07:04:36] <fenn> yeah, it should
[07:04:54] <fenn> one of these years i'll migrate that stuff to dokuwiki
[07:05:30] <BlackMoon> wtf is this page even about?
[07:05:39] <fenn> precision engineering using angle grinders
[07:05:43] <BlackMoon> grinding down CNC rails or something with an angle grinder? I can't be reading this right
[07:06:00] <fenn> it's for making the mounting surface for the rails
[07:06:12] <fenn> but you could do a dovetail way too
[07:06:32] <BlackMoon> ... Yea I can tell you right now
[07:06:57] <BlackMoon> nothing iv ever touched with an angle grinder ended up with less then... exceptionaly large groves..... let alone mils
[07:07:19] <BlackMoon> Now my brother he can sharpen sissors and shit with an angle grinder, but then hes been welding for 10 years
[07:07:23] <ds3> this is annoying the local dollar store don't have any lazy suzy's
[07:07:34] <BlackMoon> ds3: I got mine at princess auto
[07:07:38] <fenn> ds3 don't you have a lathe?
[07:07:46] <BlackMoon> but it was like $9 for a 10" one
[07:08:52] <BlackMoon> http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=12737 so is there much chance of getting something better then this for the same price?
[07:09:08] <BlackMoon> new that is.
[07:10:31] <fenn> btw BlackMoon ($75 shipping) http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93885
[07:10:34] <ds3> fenn: how does that help?
[07:10:47] <fenn> ds3: make your own bearing
[07:10:53] <ds3> I am not making a thrust bearing bit by bit on the lathe
[07:11:00] <fenn> there's only two bits
[07:11:18] <ds3> 1. No ball turning attachment, 2. No sphere grinding attachments
[07:11:19] <BlackMoon> fenn: you seriously think that one wuld be better?
[07:11:52] <fenn> of course
[07:12:06] <fenn> ds3: well, i assumed you had ball bearings laying around somewhere
[07:12:27] <BlackMoon> fenn: just because of the square column?
[07:12:40] <ds3> fenn: not that well equipped. I know a dollar store further away has it...just have to wait
[07:12:57] <fenn> yes
[07:13:03] <BlackMoon> I guess I can see the dovetail being better then.. whatever kinda bearing they use on the column.. they do use a bearing at least don't they?
[07:13:12] <ds3> get that and then find a way of reliabily indexing it 90deg at time
[07:13:38] <BlackMoon> ds3: hu?
[07:13:45] <fenn> it's a dovetail sliding bearing just like all the other axes
[07:14:12] <BlackMoon> fenn: that round column mills use?
[07:14:25] <BlackMoon> err
[07:14:42] <BlackMoon> I guess I wasent clear before, I can see the dovetail being better then whatever they use on round column mills
[07:14:52] <BlackMoon> assumeing they don't just use a dovetail there once its clamped?
[07:15:04] <ds3> BlackMoon: nevermind...just ranting about the lazy suzy
[07:15:22] <BlackMoon> btw I thought harbor freight did'nt ship to canada?
[07:15:33] <fenn> they might not.. i dont live in canada so i dont know
[07:15:46] <ds3> BlackMoon: for CA, why not look at busybee tools?
[07:16:02] <fenn> i think grizzly has a similar model, so there's probably something similar from some canadian tool seller
[07:16:09] <BlackMoon> who?
[07:16:33] <BlackMoon> pertty sure harbor freight doesent, especialy since they have flat rate shiping and no mention of canada. and its 300lb
[07:17:38] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon googles busybee..
[07:17:58] <ds3> www.busybeetools.ca
[07:18:20] <BlackMoon> knee mill.. weird.
[07:18:24] <fenn> busybee has amazingly little info on their website
[07:18:34] <fenn> "here's a picture, do you want it?"
[07:18:54] <BlackMoon> http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=0315001125082131021&NTITEM=CT129 thats some info heh.
[07:19:07] <BlackMoon> houseoftools nicely listed all the manuals and shit...
[07:19:10] <fenn> oh, the more info button, nevermind
[07:19:43] <ds3> they carry some of the seig machines
[07:20:19] <fenn> since the only application you've mentioned is cutting out panels, you might want to look at cnc routers instead
[07:21:04] <BlackMoon> well, and dies... might end up doing other stuff like small cylinder heads or something later...
[07:21:21] <eric_u1> I want to buy a new mobo and processor, but the options are too confusing
[07:21:28] <BlackMoon> I just hate thinking up shit and going 'well, no way I can do that, NEXT IDEA'
[07:22:07] <eric_u1> I think one of the square column mills is a good first step
[07:22:10] <eric_u1> and a lathe
[07:22:25] <eric_u1> then you can make a router later
[07:22:26] <ds3> add a RP machine to the mix
[07:22:38] <eric_u1> whazzat?
[07:23:28] <fenn> goo squirter
[07:24:16] <ds3> SantaClaus machine
[07:24:28] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon eyes http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=0315001125082131021&NTITEM=B1976 or http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=0315001125082131021&NTITEM=B1977
[07:24:33] <ds3> they also come as powder puffers :D
[07:24:49] <eric_u1> ok, but the real santa claus machine is a lathe, next a mill
[07:24:51] <BlackMoon> oh nm those are both round column again
[07:25:07] <fenn> * fenn clicks back and forth and watches it dance
[07:25:13] <BlackMoon> why is it only the mini mills are square collumn!
[07:25:22] <BlackMoon> http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/product10?&NMCLASS=00171&NSBCLASS=00287&NETID=0315001125082131021 like wtf...
[07:25:48] <BlackMoon> 7x11" isent exactly a great travel for $1200...
[07:26:00] <ds3> when alathe/mill can make one of those tiny ball inside a hollow cage thing then I'd agree
[07:26:00] <BlackMoon> http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=0315001125082131021&NTITEM=CT129N best square column mill they have :(
[07:26:20] <fenn> who wants a ball in a cage
[07:26:29] <fenn> that's what welders are for :P
[07:26:33] <eric_u1> I don't see why you couldn't
[07:26:34] <ds3> heh
[07:27:21] <eric_u1> I like the cubes inside a cube
[07:27:24] <fenn> BlackMoon: actually this one looked better, not sure why it costs less: http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=0315001125082131021&NTITEM=CT129
[07:27:39] <BlackMoon> still only 11x7 travel
[07:28:13] <fenn> yeah
[07:28:23] <BlackMoon> PS would'nt 90 degrees of head tilt imply another joint?
[07:28:27] <BlackMoon> (to fuckup)
[07:28:29] <fenn> yep
[07:28:46] <BlackMoon> probley the reason it costs less? :P
[07:28:55] <BlackMoon> (is head tilt useful?
[07:28:59] <eric_u1> yes
[07:29:09] <eric_u1> but not a killer if you don't have it
[07:29:11] <BlackMoon> for?
[07:29:17] <BlackMoon> and don't say balls in little cages :p
[07:29:20] <eric_u1> cutting angles
[07:29:38] <fenn> hmm i dont see how it tilts
[07:29:46] <ds3> but you can do that with angle blocks
[07:29:49] <BlackMoon> fenn: joint at the bottom of the square column
[07:29:56] <BlackMoon> ds3: or an angled bit?
[07:29:56] <eric_u1> there is a protractor at the back of the head?
[07:29:58] <ds3> or a 5th axis instead of tilting the head
[07:30:22] <BlackMoon> yea I allways wanted a nice angle vice too. :P
[07:30:22] <ds3> BlackMoon: bits don't always come in all the angles where as you can generate any angle with gage blocks and a sine bar
[07:30:30] <eric_u1> sure, but that is additional, we're worried about spending 1k for a milling machine here
[07:30:38] <BlackMoon> Yea
[07:30:44] <BlackMoon> k fuck headtilt
[07:31:03] <eric_u1> I see the machinists with the heads tilted on the bridgeports all the time
[07:31:17] <toastydeath> i use head tilt
[07:31:20] <ds3> but having some tilt on the head is useful
[07:31:22] <BlackMoon> probley vibrated loose! j/k
[07:31:22] <eric_u1> you would
[07:31:37] <toastydeath> easy to drill angled holes down a length
[07:31:38] <toastydeath> etc
[07:31:49] <toastydeath> rigid fixturing in case you have to mill an angle
[07:31:59] <ds3> being able to tram the head is a good thing ;)
[07:32:05] <BlackMoon> yea... mmmmmm, id probley be fine without it.
[07:32:19] <toastydeath> blackmoon: yeah, i am just saying what it's used for
[07:32:24] <BlackMoon> btw wtf is up with round column mills advertiseing 360 degrees of head swivel
[07:32:29] <BlackMoon> who wants to mill shit BEHIND the mill?
[07:32:32] <eric_u1> they probably did it so they could tram the head, then said "it's a feature!"
[07:32:39] <toastydeath> you'd be surprised, dude
[07:32:42] <BlackMoon> yea i'll just mill a hole into my bench grinder over here...
[07:32:50] <toastydeath> i have kicked the head out 45 degrees
[07:32:53] <toastydeath> to mill the end of something long
[07:33:07] <toastydeath> that is turret swivel, not head nod or tilt
[07:33:10] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: without repositioning?
[07:33:17] <BlackMoon> neat.
[07:33:22] <toastydeath> blackmoon: sort of, you have to pick the part up again
[07:33:28] <toastydeath> because you're moving it god knows where
[07:33:39] <toastydeath> but the part stays put, yeah
[07:33:57] <BlackMoon> yea but your maybe keeping Z and at least not having to redo god knows how complex a clamping setup :)
[07:34:06] <ds3> toastydeath: but you are pushing the capacity of your machine
[07:34:16] <fenn> i'd like to point out that the swivel on a bridgeport is about five times larger than the diameter of a round column mill
[07:34:25] <toastydeath> ds3: yeah, but to be fair it's a bridgy
[07:34:26] <BlackMoon> hehe
[07:34:26] <eric_u1> it's best to go look at some of those mini-mills, the small ones are really flimsy and small
[07:34:33] <toastydeath> anything you do on a bridgy pushes the limit in some way
[07:34:38] <ds3> hehh
[07:34:51] <toastydeath> friggin knee mills
[07:35:06] <ds3> the nice thing about a bridgy is those things have a worm gear on the tilt so it doesn't go full tilt at the slightest loosening of the wrong bolt ;)
[07:35:13] <toastydeath> yeah, that is true
[07:35:14] <BlackMoon> eric_u1: well i was looking at http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=12737 before
[07:35:15] <eric_u1> I was really surprised when I found out how wimpy a bridgeport really is
[07:35:32] <BlackMoon> ds3: hahah
[07:35:34] <toastydeath> what they lack in rigidity they make up for in sheer maneuverability
[07:35:39] <BlackMoon> CRASH goes the mill head :)
[07:35:56] <toastydeath> i was drilling 7/8" holes in brass plate, 40" away from the other end
[07:35:57] <ds3> BlackMoon: that was one of the warnings about the import mills
[07:36:01] <fenn> toastydeath: i suppose you could say the same thing about a limp noodle :P
[07:36:20] <toastydeath> that is also true =(
[07:36:20] <BlackMoon> ds3: mill head falls over when ya loosen the swivel nut?
[07:36:35] <ds3> BlackMoon: yep
[07:36:44] <eric_u1> that would be exciting
[07:36:44] <BlackMoon> Must be fun trying to get that shit back to 90 degrees without any kinda secureing
[07:36:47] <ds3> even the smaller stuff like taig/sherline does that
[07:36:55] <BlackMoon> do you just tighten it and wack with a mallot into place? :P
[07:37:14] <fenn> adding jack screws must have cost too much
[07:37:15] <ds3> yep, tighten it partially, mallet it in to alignment, fully tighten
[07:37:22] <BlackMoon> haha.
[07:37:37] <BlackMoon> I hate that shit.
[07:37:45] <BlackMoon> I was so glad when I got a cross slide vice for my drill press
[07:38:04] <BlackMoon> just that was like, clamp, tweak.. uhhh wait a second.. im... on center? what? that can't be right its only been 3 seconds
[07:38:08] <ds3> I'll be happy to have a working drill press again... chuck failed on mine :(
[07:38:13] <toastydeath> =(
[07:38:18] <BlackMoon> *checks again* ok.. yea.. its clamp in right.. and its secure.... and .. now im drilling, wow :)
[07:38:36] <BlackMoon> ds3: haha, i had the unfortune of reading the directions on my drill press
[07:38:44] <BlackMoon> includeing the 'install chuck with a wooden block and mallot'
[07:38:46] <fenn> BlackMoon: just wait til you get CNC
[07:38:57] <fenn> five hours programming and then it's done in ten seconds
[07:38:59] <BlackMoon> ended up having to return the damn drill press to crappy tire because hte chuck was on crooked
[07:39:10] <BlackMoon> and I it was mared by time I got it off with a bolt puller
[07:39:22] <BlackMoon> and would'nt go on straight
[07:39:30] <ds3> those chucks do need to be installed with a block/mallet
[07:39:33] <BlackMoon> new one I CAREFULY worked on by hand
[07:39:42] <BlackMoon> and it locks PERFICT on a right hand spin
[07:39:45] <BlackMoon> iv never had it slip off
[07:39:59] <BlackMoon> but if I turn it the other way around while holding the belt, I can easily take it off by hand
[07:40:04] <ds3> spin? the ones I am refering to are friction fitted with a taper
[07:40:11] <BlackMoon> yes, it is
[07:40:21] <BlackMoon> its friction fited, but if you spin it one way it locks, and the other way it releases
[07:40:35] <toastydeath> that would be very unfortunate to find out if you went to power tap something
[07:40:44] <ds3> hahahahahahahahaha
[07:40:51] <BlackMoon> like you can spin it while pushing gentaly and it just friction spins, but push a little and it locks HARD
[07:40:55] <fenn> wouldnt it just leave the tap holder stuck in the hole?
[07:40:56] <BlackMoon> turn other way and it pops off.
[07:41:02] <toastydeath> fenn: yes
[07:41:08] <BlackMoon> well, first that would take a drill press capable of reverse
[07:41:09] <BlackMoon> mine does not.
[07:41:27] <toastydeath> and it would leave a very confused look on at least my face
[07:41:29] <BlackMoon> I do however love manual taping in my drill press
[07:41:39] <BlackMoon> 'who the fuck pluged my drill press in backwards!'
[07:41:43] <fenn> do you do the "yank the belt" method?
[07:41:50] <toastydeath> yank the belt?
[07:41:54] <BlackMoon> ? no, I just spin the chuck by hand
[07:42:01] <eric_u1> sounds like TMI
[07:42:04] <BlackMoon> or the top pully and then wipe the grease off on my hand
[07:42:09] <BlackMoon> err pants
[07:42:11] <fenn> toastydeath: for tapping in a crappy drill press
[07:42:14] <toastydeath> oh
[07:42:23] <toastydeath> sounds like a little reversing switch is in order i guess
[07:42:24] <BlackMoon> while gentaly manual feeding
[07:42:36] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: No you do it manualy at like, 10rpm
[07:42:36] <fenn> in this situation you dont have a tapping head, and no taper socket anyway
[07:42:41] <ds3> reversing is a pain on 1ph AC motors
[07:42:50] <BlackMoon> this way you don't snap the tap
[07:42:51] <toastydeath> i don't tap with a tapping head
[07:42:54] <BlackMoon> and can reverse as needed
[07:42:56] <toastydeath> those take a half hour to set up
[07:42:59] <fenn> power tapping without a tapping head is dumb anyway
[07:43:00] <toastydeath> i just put the tap in the drill chuck
[07:43:01] <BlackMoon> also I don't use a taping head eihter
[07:43:07] <fenn> (unless you're using a screw gun)
[07:43:09] <BlackMoon> I just put the tap into the drill chuck
[07:43:12] <toastydeath> it's worked for the couple hundred holes i've done it in
[07:43:17] <BlackMoon> once it slips, I loosen the drill chuck
[07:43:21] <BlackMoon> and finish it with a taping wrench
[07:43:33] <BlackMoon> by then its in deep enough no fucking around with the taping wrench is gonna misalign it.
[07:43:41] <fenn> yep
[07:44:01] <BlackMoon> once I taped right through a 1 1/2" square tube, from one side to the other, straight
[07:44:15] <fenn> must have been a long tap
[07:44:15] <BlackMoon> then I released it from the vice and the screw threads binded on the bolt hahah
[07:44:19] <ds3> crappy chucks do not hold taps well :(
[07:44:21] <BlackMoon> hollow tube
[07:44:42] <BlackMoon> but yea, I had to put it into my big vice and crimp it like 2mils down to make the threads fit again :)
[07:46:09] <toastydeath> g84.
[07:46:14] <toastydeath> solved.
[07:47:10] <ds3> I prefer the single pointing cycle or thread milling
[07:47:16] <fenn> toastydeath for president on the "bigass CNC mill for everyone" ticket
[07:47:30] <toastydeath> srsly
[07:47:34] <toastydeath> a Maatsura in every home
[07:47:58] <BlackMoon> fuck lego make em mill it up
[07:48:12] <BlackMoon> heres your non discript solid block of plastic for the week son.
[07:48:33] <BlackMoon> I bet plastic is a pain to mill :(
[07:48:35] <ds3> That's right, revive the economy with real training
[07:48:46] <BlackMoon> (low temp plastics anyway)
[07:48:54] <ds3> waxes!
[07:49:14] <eric_u1> and then cast your own
[07:49:15] <toastydeath> LARGE BLOCKS OF STEEL
[07:49:36] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: yea I allways had those dreams of a kid of CNC'ing large blocks of steel into motors and shit. lols
[07:49:44] <toastydeath> look if all you people are going to machine is blocks of plastic
[07:49:51] <toastydeath> no matsuura for you
[07:49:56] <toastydeath> that is my platform
[07:50:26] <ds3> Mill blocks of Ti for fun
[07:50:37] <toastydeath> there you go, that's a wholesome youth activity
[07:50:56] <toastydeath> because growing up just isn't the same without a stream of hot chips flying at you at half the speed of sound
[07:50:56] <ds3> for added fun, mill blocks of Mg
[07:51:05] <toastydeath> my coworker used to turn mg
[07:51:10] <BlackMoon> ds3: while smoking.
[07:51:17] <BlackMoon> and puting your cig out in the swaff!
[07:51:23] <ds3> hahahaha
[07:51:30] <BlackMoon> Iv heard of a place that milled mg
[07:51:31] <toastydeath> apparently the machine would catch fire and they'd have to take the part out and put it in a sand bucket
[07:51:38] <ds3> that's very "bright" thing to do
[07:51:44] <BlackMoon> all was good till a spark made it up into the rafters where they never cleaned.
[07:51:53] <fenn> toastydeath: what's the g-code for "extinguish"?
[07:52:00] <toastydeath> "e-stop"
[07:52:01] <BlackMoon> fenn: coolant flow on?
[07:52:13] <toastydeath> yes, because adding water to an mg fire is the best plan
[07:52:24] <BlackMoon> Oil based coolant!
[07:52:34] <BlackMoon> perferabley some of that heavy solvent based stuff
[07:52:42] <BlackMoon> that'll get ya some sick leave
[07:52:50] <toastydeath> that will get you more than some sick leave
[07:53:02] <ds3> I am sure you can do it just as well in a CNC machine...just use G00 to plunge into the part
[07:53:08] <BlackMoon> hahaha
[07:53:19] <BlackMoon> stop drop and roll?
[07:53:22] <toastydeath> you probably can
[07:53:31] <toastydeath> i learned one day that you can get the machine to just drop it's tooling
[07:53:41] <toastydeath> there was an m-code sheet on the side of the mill i run
[07:53:42] <BlackMoon> gdropanggohome?
[07:53:47] <toastydeath> one i had never seen before, it said "unclamp"
[07:53:54] <toastydeath> and i was like, what does "unclamp
[07:53:55] <toastydeath> " do?
[07:53:57] <ds3> hahahahahahha
[07:54:02] <toastydeath> beep boop beep, *start*
[07:54:11] <BlackMoon> hahah it wasent spun up was it?
[07:54:14] <toastydeath> *CLANGCLANGCLANG*
[07:54:17] <BlackMoon> hahahahha
[07:54:27] <toastydeath> no, but it was picture perfect
[07:54:31] <toastydeath> i was looking in the machine expectantly
[07:54:40] <toastydeath> and the tool just falls out onto my part.
[07:54:57] <BlackMoon> 'Ah, the old drop the tool to leave an ever so small dent command... uh, i'll remember that one.'
[07:54:58] <toastydeath> i now know what "unclamp" does.
[07:55:13] <ds3> now to complete the duality of the lathe-mill relationship...repeat with the chuck release M code while spinning at 3600 RPM ;)
[07:55:28] <toastydeath> is that like the dremel CD trick?
[07:55:30] <BlackMoon> ds3: haha.
[07:55:38] <toastydeath> except a little more exciting?
[07:55:44] <BlackMoon> my brother did a wonderful demo for me of why you ALLWAYS clamp your drill press work
[07:56:11] <toastydeath> our biggest lathe has a 18" chuck
[07:56:16] <toastydeath> spins 3k rpm
[07:56:17] <BlackMoon> 3000rpm + 4" by 4" peice of 14guage steel (with sharp burrs all around) sliceing his hand in half, spining around for 5 seconds on a drill bit bent at 45 degrees
[07:56:35] <BlackMoon> before both peices fly across the shop and leave a remarkabley large mark in the concrete wall
[07:56:53] <ds3> so does blood make a good coolant on steel? ;)
[07:56:55] <BlackMoon> 'Ah.... So thats why we clamp stuff into the drill press'
[07:57:12] <BlackMoon> Not sure, he stoped drilling after that for awhile.
[07:57:14] <toastydeath> ds3: highly lubricating, but it stains
[07:57:17] <BlackMoon> but it probley woulda helped
[07:57:25] <BlackMoon> that was the 4th drill bit for that hole
[07:57:50] <BlackMoon> He really needs to take better care of his drill bits.. or buy a sharpener.. or throw them the fuck out.. something.. gez.
[07:57:53] <ds3> wonder if that would void it for use in medical applications ;)
[07:58:18] <toastydeath> i imagine it would be sterile considering the temperature of the chips i've been hit with
[07:58:25] <fenn> btw if you grind the rake off the drill bit it wont grab like that
[07:58:37] <BlackMoon> Bloody stained steel: Not for use in medical applications without explicit writen consent of company president (And an aids test on the bloody metal)
[07:58:54] <toastydeath> or add MORE RAKE
[07:59:03] <ds3> stained... so it is not a stainless alloy
[07:59:03] <toastydeath> and a thirty horsepower motor
[07:59:11] <fenn> toastydeath: ?
[07:59:14] <BlackMoon> fenn: if you clamp shit down, it also won't CUT YOUR HAND IN HALF.
[07:59:18] <BlackMoon> when it grabs like that.
[07:59:24] <toastydeath> fenn: i don't know.
[07:59:25] <BlackMoon> I think that was the big part of that demo.
[07:59:39] <ds3> or just use an import drill bit and watch the it become an untwisted drill bill :D
[07:59:47] <toastydeath> that is so freaky
[07:59:50] <toastydeath> the untwisted drill thing?
[07:59:53] <toastydeath> have you ever done that
[08:00:01] <toastydeath> BANG, and the drill is still there
[08:00:03] <ds3> no but I have BENT a tap
[08:00:18] <BlackMoon> untwisted drill bit?
[08:00:26] <BlackMoon> what are they supposed to twist to the left in china or something?
[08:00:36] <toastydeath> blackmoon: if you crash a drill just right, you can get one or two of the twists to undo and loop back
[08:00:42] <BlackMoon> fucking europeans, first they drive on the wrong side and now they are drilling backwards.
[08:00:46] <toastydeath> ds3: how did you bend a tap
[08:01:05] <fenn> 1) get out the torch..
[08:01:07] <ds3> toastydeath: i was tapping 6061 aluminum using a tap from HF
[08:01:09] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: seems that'd take skill, or one of those 'flated' drill bits.
[08:01:23] <BlackMoon> I use round drill bits so they just slip like mad when that occures
[08:01:28] <toastydeath> blackmoon: i was using a 20 hp geared head horizontal milling machine and driving a small drill very hard.
[08:01:34] <toastydeath> in a deep-ish hole, so it couldnt' whip
[08:01:34] <BlackMoon> Alternately I use my air drill that has like 0 momentium
[08:01:44] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: hahahha
[08:01:46] <toastydeath> ah, tap from hf
[08:01:55] <toastydeath> all my taps break into a billion pieces when i break them
[08:02:03] <BlackMoon> I once broke a tap off in a motor
[08:02:10] <BlackMoon> that was a fun 2 hours trying to drill uhhh... around it.
[08:02:27] <BlackMoon> (into the shaft itself trying to setup a set screw)
[08:02:31] <toastydeath> tap burner, man
[08:02:37] <toastydeath> best hole extraction method ever
[08:02:42] <toastydeath> er, tap/drill extraction method
[08:02:43] <BlackMoon> worst yet is I tryed to tap with my drill
[08:02:44] <BlackMoon> haha
[08:02:52] <BlackMoon> cause I was a noob and did'nt know how to tap
[08:02:57] <BlackMoon> it bottomed out and instantly snaped
[08:03:02] <BlackMoon> actualy
[08:03:12] <BlackMoon> have you seen the type of 'lobed' tap extractors?
[08:03:24] <toastydeath> i haven't seen any tap extractors because work has a tap burner
[08:03:33] <BlackMoon> http://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImages/garage_sale/EX18001-L.jpg
[08:03:37] <BlackMoon> those things
[08:03:38] <toastydeath> why mess with strange devices when you can just EDM it out
[08:03:48] <BlackMoon> they grab the 'flutes' of the tap to take it out.
[08:03:48] <toastydeath> oh, yeah i have seen those.
[08:04:03] <BlackMoon> I read about those the other day and was like gonna get me one of those next time I fail a tap.
[08:04:16] <toastydeath> http://www.gaec.com/images/p11505.jpg
[08:04:18] <toastydeath> no, you get one of those
[08:04:25] <BlackMoon> haha
[08:04:31] <BlackMoon> yea that was much talked about as well
[08:04:43] <BlackMoon> like yea you just use a tap disinigrator, underliquid EDM
[08:04:56] <BlackMoon> oh, other great suggestion: nitric acid, hahaha
[08:05:17] <toastydeath> a great suggestion, yes
[08:05:20] <toastydeath> good?
[08:05:21] <toastydeath> no.
[08:05:21] <BlackMoon> somedude musta been seriously pissed off at his broken tap when he thought of that.
[08:05:30] <toastydeath> anyway i am going to bed
[08:05:33] <toastydeath> goodnight people
[08:05:33] <BlackMoon> yea it mentioned its likey to eat out your hole and require a thread insert afterwards
[08:08:14] <eric_u1> tap extractors work pretty well
[08:08:52] <eric_u1> I broke a tap off in the side of my bridgeport, that wouldnta been easy to get in the edm machine
[08:10:09] <BlackMoon> hahaha
[08:10:19] <BlackMoon> what where you adding onto the bridgeport? :)
[08:17:21] <BlackMoon> I just don't get it...
[08:17:33] <BlackMoon> http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=0315001125082131021&NTITEM=CT129N better then http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=12737 ? seriously?
[08:18:41] <BlackMoon> 3/4HP verus 2HP... bigger table and everything on the 2nd one... no head tilt on the 2nd one.... only downside is the round column..... and thats 4 1/2" wide, pertty beefy IMO
[08:19:13] <BlackMoon> rated for 7/8" endmills and 3 1/8" face mills so should'nt it have to be rather rigid?
[08:19:34] <BlackMoon> being 660lb and all I woulda thought a alot of that would be in the column for enough rigidity...
[08:22:31] <fenn> i'm just saying if you want to CNC it, beware that the column might shift and ruin your part
[08:23:15] <fenn> i would look for something like this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93885
[08:23:34] <fenn> where the dovetail column is the same casting as the base
[08:25:34] <fenn> i guess that one is bolted together, but at least it isnt a swivel
[08:28:02] <BlackMoon> won't one bolted togethor has the same problem as a swivel, just tilting and ruining your part?
[08:28:12] <BlackMoon> (its bolted to tilt)
[08:28:29] <BlackMoon> and hence relies on the same bullshit friction to keep still
[08:28:50] <BlackMoon> And all those ones where the collum is part of the base are TINY it seems
[08:29:00] <fenn> no because the cutting force will push in the direction that causes the swivel to slip, but the bolted joint is in a different direction
[08:29:17] <BlackMoon> the bolted joint is along the X axis
[08:29:23] <BlackMoon> same as the swivel would turn
[08:30:50] <fenn> oh, sorry, was thinking about the little mills
[08:31:14] <BlackMoon> yea those little busybee ones are all tilt head
[08:31:38] <BlackMoon> tilts left and right, swivel head would swivel left and right, diffrent axis but same left and right direction of the cutting tool
[08:32:05] <BlackMoon> (till you hit 90 degrees but your parts long ruined by then!)
[08:32:50] <BlackMoon> anyone here know any other canadian mill supplers?
[08:35:09] <fenn> oh another thing is you have no way to move the head up and down with a motor on a round column mill
[08:35:20] <BlackMoon> whys that?
[08:36:02] <fenn> there's nothing holding x/y in place while you move
[08:36:07] <BlackMoon> hu?
[08:36:10] <fenn> and the gear rack thing.. bleh
[08:36:22] <BlackMoon> I thought your 4" of Z travel was seperate
[08:36:43] <BlackMoon> ie you clamped the column and then another dovtail slide dealie did your 4" of Z travel
[08:36:50] <BlackMoon> since it has like 18" of Z 'movement'
[08:37:01] <BlackMoon> but only like 4 or 5" travel
[08:37:07] <fenn> um
[08:37:20] <fenn> another dovetail slide?
[08:37:38] <BlackMoon> yea?
[08:37:46] <BlackMoon> I mean how else are you gonna drill anything with it?
[08:37:51] <fenn> that mill has a round column and a quill
[08:37:54] <BlackMoon> if you can't even move Z with locked column?
[08:38:24] <BlackMoon> oh, you can motorize the quill not the column?
[08:38:28] <fenn> i've seen where people attached a leadscrew to the quill, but it looks hokey
[08:38:52] <BlackMoon> I thought you'd attach it to the fine drill handle?
[08:39:12] <BlackMoon> (a motor that is)
[08:39:18] <BlackMoon> (fine drill feed..)
[08:39:43] <fenn> that's a worm drive that turns the pinion right?
[08:40:25] <BlackMoon> yea
[08:40:28] <fenn> lots of backlash
[08:40:31] <BlackMoon> :(
[08:40:46] <BlackMoon> what drives the harborfraight one?
[08:40:57] <fenn> a leadscrew moves it up and down the column
[08:41:02] <BlackMoon> does the quill move at all on that one?
[08:41:05] <fenn> and it has a quill too, for unknown reasons
[08:41:07] <BlackMoon> haha
[08:41:19] <BlackMoon> manual faildrilling... and ruining accuracy? :P
[08:41:20] <fenn> i guess it works better manually that way
[08:41:28] <BlackMoon> faster manualy
[08:41:41] <BlackMoon> looks like it has a quill lock? on the front maybe.
[08:42:17] <BlackMoon> so if I CNC'ed that, id get the full 8" of Z travel CNC'ed... hmmmm...
[08:43:31] <fenn> you should talk to people in your area and see if you can try these out first
[08:43:38] <fenn> or enroll in a machine shop course
[08:44:34] <fenn> it's really unfortunate that there is no specifications for machine rigidity
[08:44:47] <fenn> (just in general)
[08:44:52] <BlackMoon> 'drrr it has steel! and uhhhhh... abunch of it... thats good right?'
[08:45:04] <BlackMoon> ^- rigidity spec
[08:45:50] <fenn> businesses go to trade shows and get to play before they buy, but consumers are just clueless and will take whatever is shoved at them
[08:47:39] <BlackMoon> Yea and somehow I don't think people look kindly when you try and return a mill after striping all the packing lube down and assembleing/disassembleing/filling with swaff
[08:48:13] <fenn> eh just spray some red colored vaseline on it :)
[08:48:22] <fenn> mix in some casting grit too
[08:48:23] <BlackMoon> hahah
[08:48:53] <BlackMoon> http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18460 looks cute but like somehow I think I just want.. bigger... and I don't think I wanna be buying a 2nd one yaknow?
[08:49:33] <fenn> yeah dont get that unless you're strapped for space
[08:49:41] <BlackMoon> and lol at 90 degree tilt.. I bet past 45 degrees the motor will make it fall over if you don't bolt it to your bench
[08:50:29] <BlackMoon> 11" by 7" of that busybee isent much better :(
[08:50:56] <BlackMoon> kinda be nice to do larger panels though I guess I could do multiple setup..
[08:51:33] <fenn> i wasn't recommending the busybee mill
[08:58:40] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon uncovers in random searchs: 'Also, CNC quill designs are okay for only the first few inches, after that quill deviation becomes excessive.'
[08:58:41] <BlackMoon> DOH.
[08:58:46] <BlackMoon> I shoulda seen that comming.
[09:02:12] <BlackMoon> http://www.industrialhobbies.com/Products/square_column_mill_2.htm Sexy....
[09:14:56] <eric_u1> I thought they were gone, I guess someone started the company back up?
[09:16:02] <BlackMoon> Not really the website looks deader then a dog coded up by a 5 year old
[09:23:23] <BlackMoon> http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=78024 lolnc.
[09:27:37] <BlackMoon> poor table too, getting all milled on :(
[09:28:38] <archivist> dont get a round column machine like that, I had one
[09:29:29] <BlackMoon> yea?
[09:30:07] <archivist> too much flex, and loss of position with height change
[09:30:33] <BlackMoon> yea.. I thought about motorizeing the quill but its gonna lose all accuracy when extended isent it heh.
[09:31:15] <archivist> quill will rattle in its slide, makes a good drill poor mill
[09:32:15] <BlackMoon> :(
[09:32:31] <BlackMoon> where to get a square column mill in canada though
[09:35:20] <BlackMoon> not 3in1, square, yadayada, and its gotta be blue right? cause the other colors suck or somesuch? j/k
[09:36:50] <BlackMoon> But seriously guys, thanks, this has been informative..
[09:38:24] <BlackMoon> Maybe i'll just get that like $700 mini one if I can't find a better square one around
[09:38:28] <BlackMoon> 7
[09:38:29] <archivist> second hand machine tool dealers or ebay or local model engineers
[09:38:33] <BlackMoon> 7" by 4" isent to bad....
[09:39:03] <BlackMoon> I kinda want a new one as I have 0 ability to tell if im getting something decent, or a twisted up beater
[09:39:31] <BlackMoon> And it seems lots of the older ones kinda exceed my weight limit of getting it into the house...
[09:43:08] <archivist> meet local model engineers or go to night classes
[09:44:45] <BlackMoon> I thought the point of aquireing all this shit was so I did'nt have to hang out with the unwashed masses :(
[09:45:12] <BlackMoon> let the world end, im happy here with my generator, mill and oil well
[09:45:43] <BlackMoon> Oil well and mill may not exist yet but oh well.
[09:45:49] <BlackMoon> least I got plans.
[09:46:23] <BlackMoon> and I better get that oil well soon cause my generator leaks a lot of it.. stupid 15 year old B&S motor with a bent shaft!
[09:46:35] <BlackMoon> if only people did'nt drive it over so many rocks in its past life as a lawnmower.
[09:46:44] <BlackMoon> and.. really big rocks... and.. rebar..
[09:46:50] <BlackMoon> Yea im pertty sure the rebar did'nt help
[09:46:58] <BlackMoon> Or the 6" rocks.
[09:47:20] <BlackMoon> next time I make a generator im totaly checking the shaft for 1/2" of wobble.
[09:47:27] <BlackMoon> and massive oil leakage.
[09:47:42] <BlackMoon> But on the plus side, the chassie doesnt rust.
[09:48:05] <BlackMoon> the pully nicely coats hte entire chassie with the waste oil insureing it doesnt rust as I never bothered painting it.
[09:55:01] <BlackMoon> http://cgi.ebay.com/CIN-MILA-CNC-CENTRI-MATIC-EXTERNAL-MULTI-SURF-CHUCKING_W0QQitemZ190037795826QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 what the whosit?
[09:57:28] <BlackMoon> Welp, theres like 14 results avilable after going 'avilable to canada' in ebay for mill.. and going to the right catagory..
[09:59:21] <fenn> model engineers is hardly "unwashed masses"
[09:59:47] <fenn> think "cheerful old fat guys with beards"
[10:00:41] <BlackMoon> http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-RAMBAUDI-M3-VERTICAL-MILL-WITH-POWER-FEED-XYZ_W0QQitemZ390010535472QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item390010535472&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
[10:00:57] <BlackMoon> would be nice but I bet its gonna go to like 10 grand and be 2 grand s/h
[10:01:34] <archivist> fenn describing me?
[10:02:14] <fenn> heh archivist yeah i guess :)
[10:02:18] <fenn> if you say so
[10:02:33] <archivist> has beard, yes
[10:03:18] <fenn> clockmaker ~= model engineer
[10:03:26] <archivist> BlackMoon, probably over your size limits but a nice looking machine
[10:04:02] <archivist> Im a model engineer from years ago, clockmaking is recent
[10:04:28] <fenn> ah, advanced stage of the disease
[10:04:36] <archivist> :)
[10:04:46] <BlackMoon> 'now I just... live in them'
[10:05:01] <fenn> in the machines?
[10:05:05] <BlackMoon> in the models. :P
[10:05:10] <BlackMoon> 1/2 scale.
[10:07:10] <fenn> that show junkyard wars makes it seem like the scrapyards in UK are much cooler than USA
[10:07:26] <archivist> they can be
[10:08:17] <archivist> although that program cheats and "places" correct junk for the challenge
[10:08:20] <BlackMoon> it'd be fun to attack a junk yard with a mig welder and oxy/acy torch and a few forklifts to take apart for hydrolics.
[10:08:46] <BlackMoon> or dumptrucks
[10:08:56] <BlackMoon> they have dumptrucks in junkyards right? something with hydrolics anyway
[10:09:03] <BlackMoon> maybe the car crusher
[10:09:24] <BlackMoon> yea, put a giant fucking carcrusher hydrolic ram jaw on the front of your rig.
[10:09:24] <fenn> you dont get to take apart the car crusher
[10:09:38] <BlackMoon> F you, I got an oxy torch and i'll take apart what I want!
[10:09:54] <fenn> you might just "accidentally" get a car dropped on you
[10:10:06] <BlackMoon> -_-;
[10:11:43] <fenn> i went to Indianapolis once, went to all the junkyards, there wasnt a single one you could BUY scrap at
[10:11:58] <fenn> well, scrap yards.. not car parts
[10:12:23] <fenn> they all looked at me funny when i asked too
[10:12:52] <archivist> BlackMoon, smallish solid machine http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CENTEC-2c-MILLING-MACHINE_W0QQitemZ260318866912QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item260318866912&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1298|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
[10:13:49] <fenn> oooo nice.. what's with the rack drive?
[10:13:58] <fragalot> http://www.google.be/firefox?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
[10:13:58] <fragalot> WIN
[10:14:02] <fragalot> wait
[10:14:09] <fragalot> http://www.speedtest.net/result/361861818.png
[10:14:14] <archivist> fenn over here within a mile I can get lumps of metal or an old machine from the local yard, but he does not take cars in
[10:15:15] <archivist> fenn rack is for production horizontal milling
[10:15:15] <fenn> yes there is a halfway decent scrap yard here, but seems to be getting worse as they ship everything to china
[10:16:05] <archivist> we have a baby mill here with rack
[10:17:58] <BlackMoon> archivist: only have to fly all the way to the UK to pick it up, great!
[10:19:04] <fenn> re: centec 2c "The miller must not be lifted on the overarm or round the column - the weight of the base will rip out the 3/8" Whitworth bolts that hold it to the column."
[10:19:07] <BlackMoon> Wonder if they will let me take it as carry on, or if they are afraid i'll mill a gun before we land
[10:19:43] <archivist> you send stuff like that by sea
[10:20:00] <archivist> should be some over there
[10:20:11] <archivist> or similar
[10:20:15] <BlackMoon> trying to avoid the $2000+ shiping
[10:20:32] <BlackMoon> and theres crap on ebay for in canada, I checked
[10:20:56] <BlackMoon> like all of 14 mills and all are out of my price range or not even in canada and like 2tons
[10:21:08] <BlackMoon> (well, ships to canada, but lol at that)
[10:27:02] <fenn> wow UKP has really taken a beating
[10:27:25] <fenn> 1.5 UKP/USD
[10:27:33] <fenn> er USD/UKP
[10:33:05] <archivist> money is all over the place at the moment
[10:37:38] <fenn> it's all imaginary anyway
[10:38:17] <BlackMoon> wtf
[10:38:43] <BlackMoon> how the f does the USD have a strong dollar while bitching all the while about being in an economic crisis and depression and all that bs
[10:39:18] <fenn> its more like london got dragged into the same sink hole
[10:39:57] <BlackMoon> cnd droped from 1.09 to .75 something too
[10:40:06] <BlackMoon> and like 0.96 to 0.75 in 1 month
[10:40:14] <BlackMoon> usd
[10:43:06] <fenn> BlackMoon: http://www.ccserver.net/yeah/economy.jpg (courtesy of sir fragalot)
[10:44:48] <fenn> screw the gold standard, i want my dollars redeemable in steel
[10:45:53] <BlackMoon> fenn: heh.
[10:49:07] <BlackMoon> http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/511745944.html lols... only thing iv found worthwhile on craiglist so far.
[10:49:48] <fenn> hmm i'm sorta hoping ccserver.net is a joke
[10:49:54] <fragalot> fenn: hmm?
[10:50:13] <fragalot> also, thank you for the "sir" part :)
[10:50:54] <fragalot> fenn: that image was created by somebody trying to explain to me why the CAD went down the drain compared to the USD & euro
[10:51:09] <BlackMoon> http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/483318927.html hey wait a second one.
[10:54:35] <fenn> gosh now i wonder if that whole post was just an ad for redtube
[11:27:24] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[11:28:11] <micges> good afternoon here
[11:28:56] <piasdom> good afternoon to you
[11:29:44] <micges> good morning to you too :)
[11:29:56] <piasdom> how about g'day to all :)
[11:30:01] <micges> heh
[11:30:24] <micges> yes good, 4h in work left :)
[11:30:42] <fragalot> good afternoon :
[11:30:43] <fragalot> )
[11:30:47] <piasdom> 11 left here
[11:30:58] <fragalot> 6h of school for me
[11:31:17] <micges> ah scool, cool
[11:31:28] <micges> school*
[11:31:28] <piasdom> just getting there fragalot ?
[11:36:14] <BlackMoon> Cap of the morning to ya govonah! chip chip cherro!
[11:36:44] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon is not british but makes fun of them on IRC.
[11:38:31] <fragalot> piasdom: no, afternoon
[11:38:38] <fragalot> piasdom: it is now 12:38
[11:38:52] <archivist> 11:38
[11:38:53] <fragalot> school ends at 17:45 for me
[11:39:13] <piasdom> fragalot:you have THAT much school in one day ?
[11:39:35] <fragalot> piasdom: starts at 8:30, ends at 17:45
[11:39:41] <piasdom> <--5:38 a.m.
[11:40:08] <fragalot> lunch break from 12:45 to 1:30
[11:41:05] <BlackMoon> fragalot: thats entirely to much school in any time system
[11:41:30] <fragalot> BlackMoon: I concur;
[11:42:00] <piasdom> fragalot:five days a week ?
[11:42:23] <fragalot> piasdom: yes
[11:42:25] <BlackMoon> 6, you get to listen to the nuns sermon on sunday.
[11:42:30] <BlackMoon> bonus!
[11:42:43] <fragalot> lol
[11:43:00] <BlackMoon> see, it could be worse
[11:43:29] <piasdom> it could always be worst...but that's a LOT of school :)
[11:54:51] <fragalot> I gotta run if i wanna make it to school in this weather, cya
[11:55:01] <piasdom> later
[14:54:35] <Guest198> Guest198 is now known as skunkworks_
[15:12:05] <Lerman_____> Lerman_____ is now known as Lerman
[16:03:08] <Kohlswa> I'm back, dunno if I've been missed but I've been offline due to shoulder surgery.
[16:03:32] <archivist> cnc surgery ?
[16:04:09] <Kohlswa> no? but thay had a small camra in my arm and some realy neat small tools
[16:04:27] <Kohlswa> bankart operation
[16:05:06] <archivist> * archivist wants to keep all his bits inside and unopened
[16:05:53] <Kohlswa> well so would I but my shoulder started dislocateing to the point where it even did it when i was asleep
[16:06:28] <archivist> ouch
[16:08:16] <Kohlswa> btw, are there any ham radio ppl here ? is the 80 and 40 meter band only for ham radio? I'm useing an app called HamSphere that had a radio channel on 7025khz
[16:09:15] <archivist> google band plan for those bands I have let my licence lapse
[16:09:40] <jymm> it's 40m
[16:09:45] <archivist> some in ##electronics are more up to date
[16:10:22] <jymm> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html
[16:11:24] <Kohlswa> thanks jymm
[17:27:47] <cradek> security! http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/11/24/wiretap-proof-telephone/
[17:28:42] <SWPadnos> ooooh. so compact too.
[17:29:46] <cradek> Jon E should get some known-good parallel cables and sell them on his site
[17:29:59] <SWPadnos> heh - that's a good idea
[17:30:23] <SWPadnos> he wouldn't make any money off them, but it would probably still be a good investment
[17:31:31] <cradek> well he could price them however he wants. but giving the option of a "known good" part to you customers when that part is problematic seems smart
[17:32:37] <archivist> what percentage have c**p 3.3v parports
[17:33:01] <SWPadnos> unless you buy 100 of them at a time, you'd end up paying the same amount that an end user would pay, so you either don't make any money by selling them for only a little more, or you try to sell them for $100 each and make some money :)
[17:33:18] <SWPadnos> it is smart for other reasons though, that's true
[17:33:28] <jepler> if it saves you one support call, ...
[17:33:39] <cradek> if it saves you a hundred support calls...
[17:33:56] <SWPadnos> indeed
[17:34:00] <jymm> Or have everything go over ethernet!! WOOHOO
[17:34:01] <cradek> I honestly don't know where I'd go to find one that's marked like he says. I'd want it shipped with my ppmc product.
[17:34:11] <SWPadnos> Steve Stallings has some that he sells ;)
[17:34:18] <jymm> * jymm pokes SWPadnos
[17:34:32] <SWPadnos> but they have centronics connectors on them IIRC
[17:34:39] <jymm> ew
[17:34:46] <archivist> pure snake oil cable http://www.usa.denon.com/productdetails/3429.asp
[17:34:58] <cradek> IMO, steve is smart to use centronics connectors
[17:35:05] <SWPadnos> ewww
[17:35:11] <jymm> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[17:35:32] <SWPadnos> it's true though, "certified" parallel port calbes are more likely to have DB->centronics on them
[17:35:35] <cradek> hahaha
[17:35:36] <jymm> a fully wired db25 to db25 can be useful for other things too
[17:35:39] <cradek> SWPadnos: exactly
[17:35:47] <SWPadnos> jymm, it's not the same thing
[17:36:03] <jymm> SWPadnos: goony goo goo
[17:36:06] <SWPadnos> jon elson just pointed out that an IEEE1284 cable uses twisted pairs inside
[17:36:30] <SWPadnos> and there are shielding requirements as well
[17:40:14] <Kohlswa> *looking at the last link* 500$ for a small amount of copper wire and mostly platic?
[17:40:44] <SWPadnos> hey man, it's probably oxygen free copper
[17:40:57] <SWPadnos> that's gotta be good for a few extra bits/second :)
[17:41:06] <archivist> Kohlswa, yes a pure con, audiophools are easily parted from their money
[17:41:30] <Kohlswa> madness
[17:41:56] <archivist> taking money from idiots is a science
[17:41:59] <SWPadnos> the anti-snag hoods do look nice though
[17:42:31] <SWPadnos> oooh, and the carbon-fiber-looking woven sheath. that's super snazzy
[17:43:24] <archivist> "Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer" the writing on the outside helps the data
[17:43:27] <SWPadnos> hahahaha - "Attention to detail when building this cable was used by employing high quality insulation and woven jacketing to reduce vibration and to add durability."
[17:44:06] <archivist> the best snake oil was used in the making of this product
[17:44:22] <piasdom> how long do you get for 500 ?
[17:44:36] <Kohlswa> 1.5meter?
[17:44:43] <piasdom> hahahahhaha
[17:44:58] <piasdom> i was thinking that was the dia
[17:45:48] <piasdom> reading it really wrong....no mind me :)
[17:45:54] <jepler> SWPadnos: which pairs get twisted in IEEE1284? there aren't enough grounds to twist them with the data lines, are there?
[17:46:03] <SWPadnos> I don't know
[17:46:36] <SWPadnos> there are 8 grounds
[17:46:47] <SWPadnos> so all the data lines could be twisted
[17:47:00] <archivist> more than 8 irrc
[17:47:13] <SWPadnos> it's also possible to connect two wires to each ground pin and have a twist for every signal line
[17:47:30] <SWPadnos> archivist, no, should be 8, since there are 17 I/O pins
[17:47:58] <archivist> er what!
[17:48:20] <archivist> * archivist counts a board
[17:48:37] <SWPadnos> 8 on the data port, 5 on the status port, 4 on the control port (or 5 control 4 status)
[17:49:09] <archivist> * archivist counts 8
[17:49:20] <SWPadnos> 8 grounds?
[17:49:42] <archivist> yes on this card
[17:49:51] <SWPadnos> yep. that sounds right ;)
[17:50:27] <jepler> the centronics-style connector (36 pins) has more grounds. http://pinouts.ru/ParallelPorts/Centronics_pinout.shtml
[17:50:31] <archivist> I dont remember that many control from when I did a driver
[17:51:29] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_drivers.html#r1_1_1
[17:53:36] <jepler> in addition to the data lines, the strobe/ack/busy/reset (spp names) get matching grounds
[17:53:46] <jepler> that's stull not all the lines used in EPP, though
[17:53:46] <archivist> was a looooong time in the past for me Riscos driver
[17:54:11] <jepler> s/stu/sti/
[17:55:28] <SWPadnos> oooh, Acorn
[17:55:39] <archivist> yesum
[17:56:41] <SWPadnos> weren't they the company that made a computer based on the NS30216/NS32032? (the National Semiconductor 32-bit CPUs that were dog slow and died very quickly)
[17:56:44] <archivist> I needed my logic analyser for that job
[17:57:02] <archivist> no they were ARM
[17:57:14] <archivist> Acorn Risc Machine
[17:57:26] <SWPadnos> I know they made ARM machines (and later became ARM for the most part)
[17:57:44] <SWPadnos> some UK manufacturer made a NS based PC for a little while though
[17:58:50] <SWPadnos> Ah, I may have been thinking of Whitechapel (but Acorn did make one also)
[17:58:57] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Semiconductor_32016
[18:01:10] <archivist> thats a chip I have not managed to collect yet
[18:01:31] <SWPadnos> me either, though it did look cool on paper
[18:03:07] <archivist> I see acorn mainly used it as a coprocessor
[18:03:28] <archivist> 6502 ruled at the time
[18:05:04] <archivist> they did well with the riscos machines into education where out market was hence me doing the driver
[18:05:56] <SWPadnos> oh, cool
[18:54:30] <skunkworks_> you know - I really like eagle
[19:02:09] <cradek> how can that be??
[19:03:24] <skunkworks_> well - it is free and seems to do a decent job. :)
[19:03:31] <skunkworks_> 'free'
[19:03:49] <archivist> heh borked board size when free
[19:04:56] <skunkworks_> yes. and only 2 layers - but for hobbiest....
[19:05:18] <jymm> (big lag) SWPadnos: Bah bumbug.... crosstalk FTW!
[19:05:32] <skunkworks_> I did find out that you can run traces outside of the limit..
[19:05:45] <skunkworks_> :)
[19:06:09] <skunkworks_> http://imagebin.ca/popup/Fv-gJsq7.html
[19:06:56] <archivist> that ic pad style takes me back to tape up design
[19:07:05] <cradek> yeah just pad placement is limited, not board outline or routing
[19:10:55] <archivist> hmm parts leaning on each other
[19:12:44] <skunkworks_> dry transfer.. I lived it as a kid. Made some pretty decent circuits
[19:12:49] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:12:51] <skunkworks_> *loved
[19:13:04] <skunkworks_> radio shack sold it locally here.
[19:13:16] <archivist> D5 R4 and D4 RX etc
[19:14:04] <archivist> are the screen print too wide or will the parts heat each other
[19:15:18] <skunkworks_> heh - I just know that the parts I use will sit with that much overlap.
[19:15:29] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/32185
[19:15:38] <anonimasu> some random parts
[19:15:44] <skunkworks_> Nice!
[19:16:26] <anonimasu> missing a final op on the left one :)
[19:18:55] <skunkworks_> http://imagebin.org/32165
[19:18:59] <skunkworks_> that doesn't look good
[19:19:01] <skunkworks_> ;)
[19:19:18] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:21:51] <skunkworks_> also - eagle is a lot easier to use with a mouse with a center wheel
[19:22:26] <anonimasu> agreed
[20:50:38] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=531076&postcount=538
[20:54:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:54:27] <SWPadnos> reminds me of a Star Trek:TOS episode "Spock's Brain"
[20:54:39] <SWPadnos> "Brain, brain. What is brain?"
[20:57:10] <jymm> SWPadnos: What do you want to do tonight Pinky?
[20:57:23] <SWPadnos> never read (or watched) those
[20:57:25] <archivist> a double loop brain
[20:57:53] <SWPadnos> or maybe the wuote is "brain and brain! what is brain?"
[20:57:54] <SWPadnos> quote
[20:58:34] <skunkworks_> great - now I have that song in my head. 'pinky and the brain - pinky and the brain - one is a genious - the others in sane..
[20:58:54] <archivist> * archivist gets the impression of vapour ware
[21:00:24] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPFSNu_QNs
[21:02:42] <jepler> News
[21:02:43] <jepler> Nasa jubilant at urine solution
[21:03:01] <skunkworks_> heh - did they get it fixed?
[21:03:19] <jepler> apparently so
[21:04:18] <archivist> if you run multiple cnc brains from the faq "Emergency stop of one, will not automatically stop the others"
[21:04:32] <archivist> brain dead
[21:04:53] <jepler> that's no moon^Wfeature!
[21:06:53] <fragalot> YOU are a moon feature
[21:09:26] <toastatwork> lol
[21:11:33] <archivist> wee more brain fodder "Under certain extreme circumstances, cutting can cause occilation along an axis that simply cannot be corrected. The CNC Brain centers the axis in the middle of the occilation"
[21:14:31] <jepler> is "occilation" your own typo or is it theirs?
[21:14:31] <skunkworks_> but it is double loop...
[21:14:40] <skunkworks_> it will take care of everything
[21:17:24] <anonimasu> heh
[21:17:36] <archivist> entirely their typos
[21:20:09] <fragalot_> fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
[21:32:39] <cradek> archivist: what is occilation?
[21:33:07] <jepler> cradek: you'd have to ask the cnc brain people that, I think
[21:33:08] <anonimasu> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[21:33:16] <archivist> brain being rattled due to over use
[21:33:16] <jepler> cradek: (try using phonetics, you'll figure it out)
[21:33:20] <skunkworks_> if I didn't know better - I would think I was writing the manual
[21:33:22] <cradek> inoculation?
[21:33:32] <cradek> Did you mean: ovulation
[21:33:44] <anonimasu> I think they are talking about the control failing to hold position :p and tries to compensate
[21:34:02] <archivist> * archivist was entertained for a few minutes on their forum
[21:35:53] <SWPadnos> it's powered by ocelots insetad of gerbils, so it occilates
[21:36:52] <archivist> * archivist blames skunkworks for this evenings amusement
[21:37:42] <archivist> I can have no confidence in that product with that website
[21:37:48] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ tries to entertain
[21:38:11] <jymm> SWPadnos: Um , you have experience with gerbils?
[21:38:37] <archivist> hey we could use it as an emc USB interface :))
[21:38:47] <jepler> archivist: what, gerbils?
[21:39:04] <archivist> they would work
[21:39:24] <jymm> archivist: you know there are animal labor laws
[21:39:48] <archivist> I didnt notice any success stories when browsing the forum
[21:40:12] <skunkworks_> it is very new.
[21:42:22] <archivist> have they shipped any since they announced availability in 06-16-2008, 09:10 PM
[21:45:50] <jepler> the latency of gerbils is simply too great to close any loop smaller than that stupid wheel they run in
[21:46:30] <BlackMoon> lol
[21:46:53] <archivist> well with Moores law next year we use smaller gerbils
[21:48:13] <anonimasu> lol
[21:49:30] <archivist> 60 nm legs for faster cycle time
[21:51:36] <jepler> google says: Results 1 - 10 of about 88,800 for hampster cnc
[21:52:36] <BlackMoon> oh the hamsteranity!
[21:53:27] <cradek> what's a hampster?
[21:53:32] <cradek> Did you mean: hipster?
[21:54:07] <cradek> oops, no question mark on those, it's almost as if I'm making them up
[21:54:40] <jepler> cradek: well, if 88,800 hits on google are wrong, I don't care to be right.
[21:55:13] <jepler> simply no interest
[21:55:28] <cradek> Did you mean: hamper
[21:57:42] <jepler> (anyway, it's about phonetic rules, like occulation earlier)
[22:14:58] <test123> neat
[22:42:06] <Memphis> how would one fit an encoder to a stub?
[22:42:11] <Memphis> a shaft style encoder
[22:43:17] <BlackMoon> hu?
[22:43:23] <BlackMoon> you mean an encoder with a shaft allready?
[22:44:05] <BlackMoon> or one with a hole for a shaft?
[22:45:12] <Memphis> with one already
[22:50:16] <SWPadnos> man, this chocolate pecan pie is tasty
[22:50:31] <SWPadnos> too bad it's much more tasty than nutritious food
[23:07:30] <Memphis> SWPadnos, how do you hook up a encoder that has one of those screw one shaft things already on it?
[23:07:48] <SWPadnos> huh?
[23:07:59] <SWPadnos> you have an encoder with a shaft, and that shaft has a coupler on it?
[23:08:25] <Memphis> well i need to buy encoders.
[23:08:30] <SWPadnos> oh, ok - I see your question above
[23:08:38] <Memphis> i dont think im even gunna try the glass scales.
[23:09:15] <Memphis> and i also want to completely dissasemble the inards of my machine, and rehook everything up from scratch instead of keeping the old control box and accessories
[23:09:37] <SWPadnos> you can use them for the I term for PID or to measure backlash, but other than that they're just a nice DRO
[23:09:40] <Memphis> just reuse the servo's amps and electric
[23:10:27] <SWPadnos> as far as the encoders, you have motors with back shafts, and you want to decide on either (a) through-hole encoders or (b) shaft encoders with couplers
[23:10:35] <SWPadnos> is that correct?
[23:11:20] <Memphis> http://www.sem.co.uk/download.asp?f=files/MT_Technical_Data_Manual.pdf
[23:11:21] <SWPadnos> it's likely that the motors have tachs on them now, which feed velocity amps. you'll need to keep the tachs if you want to keep the amps
[23:11:31] <Memphis> if u dont mind lookin at that, i dont wanna give u wrong info.
[23:11:41] <Memphis> SWPadnos, correct.
[23:11:58] <Paragon> Hello All, What size milling vice would you recommend for a mill that has about 7inch Y travel?
[23:12:00] <Memphis> there old westamps from late 80's with tachs, think there worth keeping?
[23:12:24] <SWPadnos> if they work, there's no sense replacing them
[23:12:33] <SWPadnos> which motors do you have?
[23:12:39] <Paragon> ooops... Sorry to interupt.
[23:12:50] <Memphis> SWPadnos, mt30 rr i believe
[23:12:52] <SWPadnos> Paragon, a small one :)
[23:13:18] <archivist> Paragon, did you/are bidding on the 3ph motor on fleabay item 200277934412 (its in burton 2 miles from home)
[23:13:42] <Paragon> archivist: No I have not seen it!
[23:14:18] <SWPadnos> Memphis, can you point out a page number? there are no RR motors in the index
[23:14:44] <Memphis> 28-29
[23:14:46] <Paragon> archivist: Sorry ... Indeed, I am watching that one...
[23:15:28] <Paragon> archivist: Should be fine for an idler!
[23:15:54] <Paragon> Would a 6in vice be too big?
[23:16:03] <SWPadnos> Memphis, PDF page number or the number on the page (they're different :) )
[23:16:13] <Memphis> on the page haha
[23:16:13] <SWPadnos> Paragon, how wide is the table/
[23:16:15] <SWPadnos> ?
[23:16:15] <Memphis> sorry
[23:16:28] <Paragon> 28in From memory.
[23:17:01] <SWPadnos> err, in the Y direction
[23:17:19] <Paragon> Oh sorry I think 7in
[23:17:22] <SWPadnos> I'd be surprised if a mill with 7 inches of travel has a 28" deel table :)
[23:17:25] <SWPadnos> deep
[23:17:33] <SWPadnos> ok, then I'd get a vise that fits on the table
[23:17:40] <Paragon> 7.5in
[23:17:46] <SWPadnos> if it hangs off, it may reduce the travel
[23:18:18] <archivist> I hate vices hanging off (as they always do)
[23:19:00] <Paragon> From lathes.co.uk : Beaver "A" had a 3 T-slot 28" x 6" table with a longitudinal travel of 15", a cross feed of 7.5" and a vertical movement of 13.75"
[23:19:09] <SWPadnos> Memphis, do your motors have the extra enclosure on the back? (for encoders/tachs)
[23:19:33] <Memphis> nope\
[23:20:18] <SWPadnos> ok, so the tach is "built in", and there's just a cap on the end? (ie, it's not an external tach that's mounted under a cap on the back end and connected with a shaft coupler)
[23:20:51] <archivist> Paragon, look on fleabay for beever note spelling
[23:21:42] <archivist> item 130271024569
[23:22:00] <SWPadnos> so the table is 6" deep, which means the largest vise that won't overhang is probably a 5"
[23:22:31] <SWPadnos> larger vises are also heavy - my 6" ones are ~85 pounds each
[23:23:20] <Paragon> Found it .... Thats a late model Model .... looks like this one ... http://www.lathes.co.uk/beaver/
[23:23:55] <Paragon> 85 pounds ... that is heavy!
[23:24:09] <SWPadnos> much lighter than the rotary table, which is 130 ;)
[23:24:36] <BlackMoon> so a knee mill is one that raises/lowers the table?
[23:24:56] <SWPadnos> more or less
[23:25:29] <BlackMoon> ah k
[23:25:32] <BlackMoon> http://www.lathes.co.uk/beaver/img3.gif rofl!
[23:26:26] <Paragon> BlackMoon: Cool Huh...
[23:26:35] <Paragon> Vice like this? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VERTEX-MILLING-VICE-5-JAW-SWIVEL-BASE-BRIDGEPORT_W0QQitemZ260307590440QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Engineering_Tools_ET?hash=item260307590440&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1298|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
[23:26:51] <SWPadnos> a vise ;)
[23:26:58] <SWPadnos> vices are different
[23:27:30] <SWPadnos> but yes, something like that would be fine
[23:27:52] <Paragon> SWPadnos: The item is spelt wrong too :-)
[23:27:54] <SWPadnos> I'd get a non-swivel one though, unless you think you'll need the swivel capability. it's harder to align
[23:27:59] <SWPadnos> yeah, I see that in the URL
[23:28:12] <SWPadnos> if you're planning on making it a CNC, you don't need swivel
[23:28:31] <SWPadnos> (except before it's a CNC, while you're machining parts to make it one)
[23:28:41] <BlackMoon> iv seen some really weak swivel mechanisims too.
[23:29:25] <Paragon> I think the swivel can be removed if required.
[23:29:44] <BlackMoon> ah true, it has mounts on the front and back
[23:29:54] <SWPadnos> doesn't look like you'd be able to fix the vise to the table without it, but you may see how to do that
[23:30:35] <anonimasu> aligning a vise is pretty hard :p
[23:30:51] <anonimasu> I have that vise btw..
[23:31:03] <BlackMoon> (Total noob) I read a way to do it that seemed both brutal and ingenious
[23:31:25] <BlackMoon> use the mill head itself to push the vice into alignment
[23:31:36] <anonimasu> -_-
[23:31:52] <BlackMoon> by just taping the head or bit into the vice, moving X axis and using it to push it into alignment and then tighten
[23:31:52] <anonimasu> I usually use a dial gauge and a plastic hammer
[23:32:00] <SWPadnos> that could work, but only if the mill head is perfectly aligned with the place the vise jaw *should* end up
[23:32:23] <SWPadnos> otherwise you push it out of alignment one way, then muscle past the pivot point, then push it out the other way :)
[23:32:25] <anonimasu> tighten one side then jog back and forth nudging until I get it almost perfect..
[23:32:31] <anonimasu> then I start torquing it down
[23:32:39] <anonimasu> and keep track of how much it moves when torquing
[23:32:49] <anonimasu> loosen it up and compensate for that..
[23:32:50] <Paragon> I've just been watching the Profession Machine Shop Milling Video. He shows a tip by using a reversly inserted cutter that he runs along the backface of a lighly clamped vise to bring it into alighnment he then uses a clock to finish it off.
[23:32:54] <Memphis> SWPadnos, as to what u said before that is correct,
[23:33:15] <Memphis> the tach is inside the thing somewhere and the back plate is just a small cover.
[23:33:17] <BlackMoon> Paragon: yea that sounds like the same thing
[23:33:26] <BlackMoon> just more details
[23:33:42] <Paragon> Yeah it is... I was to busy typing to notice... lol
[23:33:44] <anonimasu> well, I have a flat on the back of my vise that I cut to be able to use the edge of the table as reference
[23:33:52] <SWPadnos> Memphis, ok, that's better than it could be. have you removed the back cover to see what's under there?
[23:34:00] <BlackMoon> anonimasu: neat.
[23:34:08] <Memphis> SWPadnos, yes... not a lot of room.
[23:34:16] <SWPadnos> is there a shaft sticking out?
[23:34:17] <Paragon> The flat locates into the T slot right anonimasu
[23:34:18] <Memphis> and the stub is like almost countersunk...
[23:34:23] <SWPadnos> bummer
[23:34:28] <anonimasu> no
[23:34:48] <anonimasu> I stick a ground piece against the back of the table then just force the vise against it
[23:34:55] <anonimasu> it gets pretty close
[23:35:07] <SWPadnos> you can get lots of space by making an extender tube
[23:35:18] <anonimasu> ?
[23:35:27] <SWPadnos> you just get long screws to hold the cap on the back
[23:35:37] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is lost
[23:35:38] <SWPadnos> (sotty - talking to Memphis)
[23:35:40] <SWPadnos> sorry
[23:35:59] <anonimasu> only issue is that it has a slight bit of tilting the workpiece
[23:36:11] <Memphis> hmmmm
[23:36:15] <anonimasu> (the vertex vises)
[23:36:22] <Paragon> Oh ok. I've seen a vises with a slot milled along the base. A flat then is located in this slot that over hangs so it also locates into the top of the t-slot.
[23:36:54] <SWPadnos> Memphis, if you can't get a shaft coupler on the shaft, then about the only option is to turn / thread a hole in the shaft, and extend it with a pin
[23:37:19] <Memphis> SWPadnos, wow...
[23:37:27] <Memphis> just more room for error
[23:37:42] <SWPadnos> well, if there's no room now, you have to make some :)
[23:37:45] <anonimasu> uh.. there really is no room for error..
[23:37:46] <anonimasu> :p
[23:37:53] <anonimasu> encoder mounting has to be really good
[23:37:55] <SWPadnos> more room for no error
[23:38:11] <anonimasu> you dont want encoders to fall off :p
[23:38:42] <BlackMoon> why not mount the encoders to the other end of your ballscrews
[23:38:49] <SWPadnos> Memphis, is the back shaft full diameter or narrower than the output shaft?
[23:38:51] <BlackMoon> would'nt that be the best 0 backlash solution?
[23:38:56] <SWPadnos> no
[23:38:59] <anonimasu> no
[23:39:07] <anonimasu> unless you direct drive
[23:39:16] <SWPadnos> it has no backlash relative to the screw, but it may have backlash relative to the motor
[23:39:41] <SWPadnos> it also doesn't improve the screw to table backlash, which is the larger portion of the problem
[23:39:42] <Memphis> SWPadnos, i can prolly get an adapter on it...
[23:42:04] <SWPadnos> that would certainly be easier :)
[23:42:36] <SWPadnos> it is possible that some sort of glue would work, but aligning the shaft would be tricky. there's not much mechanical load driving an encoder
[23:44:36] <BlackMoon> stiff tubing coupler! :P
[23:45:07] <Paragon> SWPadnos: Just relised that a Vise is Vice here in England :-)
[23:45:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:45:25] <SWPadnos> you people and your honour and colour and stuff :)
[23:45:31] <Paragon> lol
[23:45:42] <archivist> we can haz spelin
[23:46:37] <archivist> * archivist has to burger off as he has an ebay collection tomorrow
[23:46:41] <Paragon> It's oll about the Queens inglish init!
[23:47:13] <Paragon> CU archivist
[23:47:31] <archivist> got some tallysurf bits
[23:48:15] <archivist> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320317841581