#emc | Logs for 2008-11-17

[03:25:34] <toastydeath> wenk
[10:01:24] <archivist> logger_emc: bookmark
[10:01:24] <archivist> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-11-17.txt
[10:25:38] <Fisia> i've thinkin of Network multi-player Game, like counterstrike or other RPG game... they SENDING Data with 'REALTIME' alike
[10:26:17] <Fisia> cos i 'almost' never find any jitter on them
[10:26:54] <Fisia> except if there is 'to many' People on-line that day
[10:27:48] <Fisia> it would require: Modem / LAN
[10:28:25] <archivist> you are being fooled by the game software
[10:28:53] <Fisia> please explain..
[10:29:40] <archivist> you as a human wont see the errors in jitter that a machine sees
[10:30:13] <Fisia> (yes it is require data-pocketing that IS far from realtime, i understand)
[10:31:58] <Fisia> how about PC --Data-pocketing-- Buffer -- uC/FPGA --- Machine
[10:32:58] <archivist> delay loops cannot work with delays
[10:33:48] <Fisia> my last idea:... unless we bring G-code-executer being external as uC-programmed...
[10:34:17] <Fisia> ARM processor / minimum PC
[10:34:45] <Fisia> ...
[10:35:19] <Fisia> G-code executer contain PID+feedback processor on them
[10:37:28] <Fisia> if PC -usb data-pocketing- MinimalistPC-WithPort -to the machine (servo amplifier)
[10:38:23] <Fisia> "minimalistPC-withPort" would do the RTime...
[10:38:25] <Fisia> ..
[10:38:53] <Fisia> :)
[10:39:45] <Fisia> just an idea, would i like to shere
[10:39:49] <Fisia> share
[10:39:54] <archivist> use a card which has already has an fpga set up for the job eg Mesa Electronics Anything I/O boards
[10:41:15] <Fisia> :) mesa ...that would lot cheapper and less in difficulties...yes still
[10:41:47] <Fisia> it is just idea for today laptop problem, i guess
[10:42:35] <Fisia> since laptop do not has it any more.
[10:43:05] <Fisia> :) suggestion only
[10:44:20] <archivist> laptops have a number of problems, just not designed to be in a machine room environment
[10:48:46] <Fisia> i see
[11:35:20] <Fisia> i gtg... have a nicest day
[11:35:27] <Fisia> :)
[14:01:49] <jepler> oops, looks like I just bought an olpc
[14:03:58] <archivist> * archivist expects EMC on it in a week
[14:04:54] <jepler> I hear that laptops are bad for realtime :-P
[14:05:06] <archivist> no excuses for you
[14:05:38] <archivist> do they have any ports?
[14:05:45] <jepler> no useful ones
[14:05:52] <jepler> (usb)
[14:06:19] <archivist> * archivist wants to reduce the hate of usb one day
[14:08:06] <archivist> just need another few hours reading the spec and a logic analyser and reatime usbdriver and an fpga and month or two of time
[14:09:03] <jepler> oh I fully expect that someone competent with enough dedicated time could come up with something .. I'm just not sure it could ever be emc2
[14:10:01] <jepler> for instance, "send 1ms time sampled positions out on usb and hope for the best"
[14:11:00] <archivist> I think we can get enough packets both ways as there is a synchronous mode
[14:11:13] <pjm_> archivist btw i've not forgotten that linear rail, i may be in warwick next week, possibly...
[14:11:24] <archivist> goody
[14:11:37] <jepler> all it takes is, as I said, lots of effort by someone competent and dedicated
[14:11:46] <jepler> that person's sure not me
[14:11:52] <jepler> bbl
[14:13:56] <archivist> pjm_ Im bidding on some bits in brum which are pickup. may manage both on same day
[14:14:22] <pjm_> archivist good idea!
[14:15:30] <archivist> seller wants pickup before 26th
[14:16:50] <pjm_> ok well if I go it'll probably be next week
[14:29:50] <micges> jepler: how did you run emc2 with valgrind ?
[14:30:30] <micges> modify emc script and command line failed
[14:49:07] <jepler> micges: three main ways to run parts of emc under valgrind: * modify the runscript to invoke valgrind at the desired time * put it in the inifile: [TASK]TASK = valgrind milltask * if it makes sense, run it at the commandline manually: valgrind userpace-component
[14:49:22] <jepler> micges: depending what you want to valgrind, you may need to use a different method
[14:50:12] <jepler> emc shutdown doesn't work proplerly when valgrind milltask, because the process name is not 'milltask'; you have to kill it manually after each run
[15:35:21] <micges> it works
[15:35:31] <BigJohnT> Yea!
[15:35:49] <micges> 1 leak in nml lib
[15:36:18] <micges> thanks jepler
[15:36:47] <SWPadnos> did you update from CVS in the last day or two?
[15:37:10] <micges> 4 days ago
[15:37:24] <SWPadnos> update again. that leak may have been plugged :)
[15:38:07] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure of it, but seb did a few commits correcting problems found with Coverity, and a couple were in the NML library
[15:38:30] <micges> (checking)
[15:39:37] <micges> I see his commits, I'll check it
[15:39:43] <SWPadnos> cool
[15:39:56] <SWPadnos> I think it would be accidental if the leak is fixed, but it doesn't hurt to check
[15:40:01] <micges> is there way to restart RT without restart system ?
[15:40:15] <SWPadnos> yes. stop RT then start it again
[15:40:36] <SWPadnos> if your EMC runscript doesn't stop it, you could try halrun -U
[15:40:45] <SWPadnos> or /etc/init.d/realtime stop
[15:40:46] <micges> is hal_lib.so exists ?
[15:41:06] <SWPadnos> what?
[15:41:20] <micges> sorry error show that hal_lib.so is exists
[15:41:41] <SWPadnos> with halrun -U ?
[15:42:08] <skunkworks_> what is valgrind?
[15:42:19] <SWPadnos> a memory usage checker
[15:42:19] <micges> ERROR: Module hal_lib is in use by timedelay,debounce,wcomp,abs,mult2,mux2,ddt,flipflop,conv_float_bitmap,laserctrl,vctrl,hctrl,pid,and2,or2,dio,and10,motmod,threads,trivkins
[15:42:31] <skunkworks_> ah - ok
[15:42:44] <micges> bbl
[15:43:02] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that seemed like userspace. oh well
[15:43:14] <skunkworks_> <jepler> emc shutdown doesn't work proplerly when valgrind milltask, because the process name is not 'milltask'; you have to kill it manually after each run
[15:43:45] <SWPadnos> heh: http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/11/17/healthiest.city.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
[15:44:15] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: is that where you are?
[15:44:22] <SWPadnos> pretty much
[15:44:29] <SWPadnos> Essex Junction is 8 miles away
[15:44:34] <skunkworks_> ah
[15:45:09] <SWPadnos> I suppose I should go get healthier by getting some breakfast. bbl
[17:21:44] <jymm> SWPadnos leaves and everyone shuts up. What's up with that? :)
[17:22:06] <archivist> we defer to the master....
[17:22:16] <jymm> So I see
[17:22:38] <SWPadnos> har har har
[17:22:46] <SWPadnos> I mean, uh, cool!
[17:25:45] <jymm> SWPadnos: =)
[17:54:55] <archivist> which standard .h defines true
[17:56:48] <SWPadnos> I don't know that it is defined for C. it's in C++ though
[17:58:40] <archivist> doing my engraving "patch" for ttt.c
[18:00:25] <seb_kuzminsky> archivist: everybody and their dog defines it, you should too!
[18:00:40] <archivist> * archivist shocked, compiles and doesnt crash still
[18:01:59] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ only has cats
[18:02:31] <archivist> * archivist needs a new pussy....cat
[18:05:54] <SWPadnos> #define true (1==1)
[18:05:55] <SWPadnos> :)
[18:12:20] <seb_kuzminsky> #define FALSE (0)
[18:12:24] <seb_kuzminsky> #define TRUE (!FALSE)
[18:12:32] <seb_kuzminsky> #ifndef TRUE, of course
[18:12:43] <alex_joni> #ifdef TRUE
[18:12:47] <alex_joni> #undef TRUE
[18:12:50] <alex_joni> #define TRUE FALSE
[18:12:55] <alex_joni> :P
[18:13:40] <fragalot> lmao
[18:13:42] <archivist> #define TRUE MAYBE
[18:14:06] <alex_joni> #define TRUE SOMETIMES(TRUE)
[18:16:15] <SWPadnos> if ((!true)&&(!false)) printf(maybe\n");
[18:16:28] <SWPadnos> +"
[18:17:58] <fragalot> #define TRUE 911
[18:18:34] <archivist> should be 999 like the UK
[18:19:01] <fragalot> archivist: 9-11
[18:19:29] <SWPadnos> ?SYNTAX ERROR
[18:21:38] <archivist> well last coffee arrived, and code walks around outer of the character glyph :)
[18:22:04] <archivist> and doesnt crash!
[18:23:31] <archivist> good job boss was out most of the day :)
[18:33:02] <stustev> is source forge having a problem today?
[18:33:38] <alex_joni> stustev: what kind of?
[18:34:06] <alex_joni> the webpage opens (albeit slow)
[18:34:18] <stustev> I have received almost no list mails today. I submitted one about an hour ago. I don't see anything.
[18:34:48] <archivist> I saw one from you
[18:34:58] <stustev> maybe it is my problem
[18:35:24] <stustev> archivist: was it about the cincikins.c?
[18:35:40] <archivist> 2 hrs ago cinci problem with oscillation
[18:35:50] <stustev> yes
[18:36:07] <stustev> this must be my problem - I will look into it at this end
[18:36:10] <stustev> thanks
[18:36:27] <SWPadnos> stustev, I haven't gotten any since yours either
[18:36:40] <archivist> that was the last for me
[18:36:55] <alex_joni> same here (last from stustev )
[18:37:07] <archivist> one before was dac problem
[18:37:33] <SWPadnos> yah
[18:41:27] <alex_joni> or tuning problem :)
[18:41:50] <archivist> specially with the reply
[18:42:18] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah. "What's tuning?" :)
[18:42:41] <LawrenceG> archivist, good day... what exciting new additions to TTT are you working on?
[18:42:57] <archivist> vform engraving
[18:43:07] <LawrenceG> yea baby!
[18:43:12] <archivist> :)
[18:43:15] <LawrenceG> how is it going
[18:43:51] <archivist> just started, got an algorithm idea, started coding
[18:44:24] <archivist> have a third executable
[18:44:37] <LawrenceG> I would be very happy to help test... I have been trying to figure out how to do that for a long time
[18:44:48] <stustev> has anyone looked at the cincikins.c?
[18:46:36] <SWPadnos> I have it open in an editor, but I need more coffee :)
[18:47:08] <SWPadnos> so I guess I'll go grind that up. brb
[18:47:14] <archivist> * archivist had coffee and now its Monday play time see ya tomorrow
[18:51:34] <skunkworks_> stustev1: with those types of kins.. YOu would not have to level/tram machines that don't have a physical connection between say Y and X/Z. Cool Just bolt the machine down and make a few measurments. Then adjust the kins :)
[18:54:32] <stustev> kind of the idea but adjusting the last few thousandths out of the machine is tedious
[18:54:53] <stustev> the machine sits on pad and is not bolted to the floor
[18:55:18] <SWPadnos> stustev, is there a diagram somewhere that shows what the various compensations are?
[18:55:19] <stustev> to adjust it completely I need to pull down on a corner
[18:55:42] <stustev> I have not created one
[18:55:48] <SWPadnos> (ie, where does ZcompX fit geometrically)
[18:55:50] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:56:38] <stustev> ZcompX is supposed to move the X axis while the Z axis moves. This will allow the center of the tool to stay above a point on the table
[18:56:53] <SWPadnos> oh hey, I could actually read your whole email and find that out :)
[18:57:04] <stustev> he he
[18:57:34] <fenn> you could do a ball bar sphere test
[18:58:10] <stustev> fenn: i am not trying to determine what the error is - I know what the error is - I want to compensate for the error
[19:01:48] <SWPadnos> archivist, http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/basedefs/stdbool.h.html
[19:02:17] <SWPadnos> or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stdbool.h
[19:03:33] <stustev> I hate (not really) technology. I had this machine running with MDSI's opencnc for years. Did the adjustments with angle plates. Made a lot of good parts.
[19:04:04] <skunkworks_> but - emc is cooler.
[19:04:05] <stustev> Now, with EMC2 and a laser tracker I see the capability to comp much closer.
[19:04:05] <skunkworks_> :)
[19:04:24] <stustev> paralysis by analysis
[19:05:32] <stustev> emc is not just cooler - it is much better ( I don't know the current state of OpenCNC but it is windows based and I don't want to know)
[19:05:36] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I think you'll have a problem compensating Z the way you want anyway (even once the kins works)
[19:06:03] <SWPadnos> if the spindle isn't perpendicular to XY, there's no way to make a perpendicular hole
[19:06:25] <SWPadnos> even if you move the tool so the endpoint is in the right place, the other points further up along the tool won't e on the correct XY location
[19:06:40] <stustev> SWPadnos: the spindle is perpendicular to the XY plane. I can adjust the A and B axes to have that
[19:06:41] <SWPadnos> (the compensation only applies to one point on a non-perpendicular tool)
[19:07:02] <SWPadnos> so your spndle moves would be in W?
[19:07:11] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: good point on a 3 axis machine. (what I was thinking)
[19:07:11] <SWPadnos> err - "vertical moves"
[19:07:40] <SWPadnos> ok, so this is compensating for the whole head moving vertically, not the spindle itself?
[19:07:53] <stustev> yes
[19:07:55] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:09:34] <fenn> is there a quill too?
[19:09:46] <stustev> no quill
[19:10:36] <SWPadnos> are the values in joints[] absolute machine coordinates or coordinates in the current system?
[19:10:47] <SWPadnos> (should be absolute)
[19:10:55] <stustev> the W axis is a coordinated XYZ move along the spindle axis - at whatever orientation the spindle is in
[19:11:36] <stustev> I am using joints[] in my program. I think that is the way to do it.
[19:11:43] <SWPadnos> if that's correct, then you have some far-from-zero number in joints[2], which then gets multiplied by the correction factor
[19:11:52] <SWPadnos> you think you're at 0,0,0 - but you're not
[19:12:54] <SWPadnos> theoretically, changing that comp number should cause the machine to bounce to a new position and then sit there
[19:13:03] <SWPadnos> what's the Z travel?
[19:13:20] <stustev> 14 inches total
[19:13:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that's not much
[19:13:37] <SWPadnos> (well, mathematically ;) )
[19:13:37] <stustev> I was at Z home
[19:13:44] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:13:56] <stustev> the joint display showed zero
[19:14:11] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:14:34] <SWPadnos> I suspect the limit error is a NaN problem somewhere, but I don't see it yet
[19:14:35] <stustev> I put 'setp cincikins.ZcompX .0001' in the hal window
[19:14:47] <stustev> the machine sat there
[19:15:00] <SWPadnos> (or something like atan2(1,$really_tiny_number)
[19:15:02] <stustev> I moved Z and the machine jumped as described in my email
[19:15:06] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:15:32] <stustev> when the machine was not on Z and I set the parameter the machine jumped immediately
[19:15:39] <stustev> Z zero
[19:15:46] <SWPadnos> ok, that's what I expected
[19:17:09] <stustev> that behavior is not what I expected :(
[19:17:21] <stustev> not what I want either :)
[19:17:40] <SWPadnos> that's one reason why you can't go to coordinated motion until you've homed
[19:17:51] <stustev> 14 inches is about normal around here :) (for a machine like this) :)
[19:18:11] <SWPadnos> there's no way to know if the machine is in a place where there's a kins solution unless you've homed
[19:18:44] <stustev> I have always homed the machine
[19:18:49] <SWPadnos> this kind of compensation changes the joint positions (as you know) - there's not much you can do if you turn it on away from your reference point
[19:19:21] <SWPadnos> it's like changing a scale on the fly (away from zero) - does't quite work the way you want ;)
[19:19:25] <stustev> I expect the jump if I am not at zero - I don't expect the oscillation and errors
[19:19:53] <stustev> I have the parameter so I can set them in the hal file
[19:20:08] <stustev> they will be working all the time
[19:20:17] <SWPadnos> oh, right. the jump is what I was expecting - not the oscillation ;)
[19:20:31] <stustev> my question is why did it oscillate?
[19:20:51] <stustev> oscillation is not good for finish or tool life
[19:21:20] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure. just to confirm, did you set the parameter at 0,0,0 then move away, or did you set the parameter when the machine was not at 0,0,0 ?
[19:21:57] <stustev> when I start the machine the parameters are set to zero in the hal file
[19:22:21] <stustev> I have issued the setp at Z zero and with Z not zero
[19:22:36] <stustev> when Z was at zero the machine did not move until I tried to move Z
[19:22:50] <stustev> when Z was not at zero the machine moved when the parameter was se
[19:22:51] <stustev> set
[19:23:13] <stustev> moved as in oscillated
[19:23:34] <stustev> I was expecting a very slow X motion as I moved Z
[19:23:38] <SWPadnos> have you scoped the motor-pos-cmd outputs?
[19:23:53] <stustev> about .0001 X move per inch of Z move
[19:23:54] <stustev> no
[19:24:24] <SWPadnos> yep, that's what I'd expect. please scope the command output, PID output, and PID error
[19:24:24] <stustev> does the cincikins.c look as if it will do what I want?
[19:24:44] <SWPadnos> I think so, but I'll be able to tell better when I load it up on a machine where I can compile it :)
[19:24:45] <stustev> what would I be looking for?
[19:25:02] <SWPadnos> running the code in my head is a bit less accurate (and much slower) than trying it in sim :)
[19:25:15] <SWPadnos> I want to see which place the oscillation starts
[19:25:59] <stustev> I will post a picture in a little while - thanks
[19:26:02] <SWPadnos> oh, also stick motor-pos-feedback (or whatever it's called) on the halscope
[19:26:07] <SWPadnos> sure
[19:26:25] <alex_joni> might be worth to convert the joints[] and pos->[] to hal pins and scope them
[19:26:40] <SWPadnos> I was thinking that also - just output everything for debugging
[19:26:50] <SWPadnos> are the HAL files and ini in the same directory?
[19:26:52] <alex_joni> stustev: it feels funny that you have the same compensation calls for forward and inverse
[19:27:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni didn't completely think about it, but a gut feeling is something to consider sometimes
[19:27:20] <SWPadnos> that did seem odd to me as well, though it makes sense for this part of it (it's linear compensation)
[19:27:29] <stustev> alex_joni: the signs are reversed but maybe that is the problem
[19:27:32] <SWPadnos> the rotational part may not make sense
[19:28:38] <stustev> the rotational part is for the geometric compensation - the error between the centerline of the spindle and the centerline of rotation of the A and B axes
[19:29:06] <stustev> bbl - must go make pictures
[20:07:32] <alex_joni> stustev: you might be right that it's the same transformation, but it feels odd that it's in teh same place in both cases
[20:12:15] <SWPadnos> what bothers me about those calcs is that there seems to be no offsetting to an origin point
[20:12:47] <SWPadnos> that may be OK, since it could be defined that machine zero is the origin for the calcs (which makes sense)
[20:13:39] <alex_joni> yeah, you always need that to be 0,0,0..
[20:13:42] <alex_joni> can't change that for kins ;)
[20:14:18] <SWPadnos> I guess I just wonder if the translation and rotation origins are actually at the same place :)
[20:14:34] <SWPadnos> but I guess it's trivial to make the translation origin match the rotation origin, so no matter
[20:20:24] <stustev> the picture is on imagebin - it is not when I moved Z - it is when I changed to MDI
[20:20:59] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/31409
[20:21:44] <SWPadnos> ok, ouch!
[20:24:49] <stustev> the first time I setp I was not at Z zero - I must have been in MDI
[20:25:30] <stustev> the second time I was at Z zero - I changed to MDI to move Z and the jump happened
[20:26:12] <stustev> the first time the X axis oscillated 6 or 8 times before stopping
[21:17:09] <LawrenceG> K`zan, good afternoon
[21:18:24] <K`zan> Hi LawrenceG
[21:25:07] <LawrenceG> sunny in Seattle? nice day here once the fog cleared
[21:31:07] <K`zan> Today it is, yuk :-). I *like* rainy days :-) :-) :-).
[21:31:22] <K`zan> Has a nice thick fog this morning here too.
[21:32:21] <K`zan> CNC stuff is kind of floating while I sort stuff out. My little pipedream mill I think I can write off as an educational experience. Time to move on to the HF uMill, NOT going to be cheap :-/, which comes as no surprise.
[21:33:01] <LawrenceG> I suppose its time to go rake some leaves.... it doesnt take long for them to turn into soggy goo
[21:33:44] <K`zan> Learned that my drive (HobbyCNC) runs unipolar which derates the steppers torque a LOT :-/.
[21:34:07] <K`zan> Yep, true, but makes for a nice slide, it you are into that kind of thrills.
[21:34:10] <LawrenceG> cool.... I have a rotary table on my bench that I am trying to figure out if its worth putting a drive on
[21:34:48] <LawrenceG> it would be nice to be able to make Al timing pulleys
[21:34:49] <K`zan> IIRC, (was on my first vacation last week in over 10 years) but the steppers need to be increased by ?1.4? to make up for the unpolar driver.
[21:34:52] <K`zan> Most confusing.
[21:34:59] <K`zan> AI?
[21:35:12] <LawrenceG> aluminum
[21:35:27] <K`zan> Ah, rotary table and another axis :).
[21:36:37] <LawrenceG> yes.... I took some of the table apart and it had hardened grease everywhere... very poor quality mechanical parts, but it does go around!
[21:38:41] <anonimasu> yay, it seems like my package is in sweden now
[21:38:52] <K`zan> Lucky you, that is a ways down the road for me at this point. Between steppers and mounts, it is going to be about $400-500 to do this.
[21:39:52] <K`zan> That would be almost the direct other side of the earth from me, hope you are closer to it anonimasu :-).
[21:44:47] <SWPadnos> stustev, still around?
[21:47:44] <SWPadnos> stustev, just for kicks, try doing your comp experiments using a different GUI, like tkemc. (I don't have any specific thing in mind, but it could help zoom in on the problem)
[22:07:17] <stustev> ok
[22:09:18] <SWPadnos> stustev, what mode did you switch from (when you went to MDI)?
[22:13:29] <anonimasu> K`zan: oh, I have all my stuff, just that making mounts for the mill is hard
[22:13:42] <anonimasu> K`zan: I'm waiting for micrometer blue and a scraper -_-
[22:13:54] <gezar> howdy yall, and thanks for the help the other day, I was not able to get the functions inline but oh well
[22:14:04] <gezar> scrapping is fun
[22:14:28] <anonimasu> hehe scraping you mean?
[22:14:34] <gezar> yeah
[22:14:40] <gezar> you need some blue and a scraper?
[22:14:48] <anonimasu> I have them comming in the mail
[22:14:51] <gezar> awsome
[22:14:54] <gezar> carbide tip?
[22:14:58] <anonimasu> no
[22:15:01] <gezar> awsome
[22:15:16] <anonimasu> I dont know how much I'll be scraping :p
[22:15:27] <gezar> you have a good flat?
[22:15:41] <anonimasu> yeah a really good one
[22:15:46] <anonimasu> (at work that is)
[22:15:49] <gezar> or are you just going to match some bearings? ah awsome
[22:15:54] <anonimasu> http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?show=HARDCOVER%3ANEW%3A9781114266612%3A92.95# <- I've got that comming too
[22:16:09] <gezar> awsome book
[22:16:23] <gezar> you looking at scrapping for fitting or you looking at fancy?
[22:16:50] <anonimasu> I've been pondering making a small lathe :)
[22:16:57] <anonimasu> and I figured scraping is a good place to start at
[22:17:09] <gezar> neat
[22:17:17] <gezar> dont scape the upsides of the ways
[22:17:31] <anonimasu> upsides?
[22:17:32] <gezar> despite how cool its going to look :)
[22:17:46] <gezar> anything that will leave a hole for dirt to sit on
[22:17:58] <anonimasu> oh, it'll be box ways
[22:18:05] <gezar> oh beautiful
[22:18:12] <anonimasu> I just think they are easier to make ;)
[22:18:42] <gezar> practice a lot with your bit's tip, you really want to be good at keeping it sharp
[22:19:01] <anonimasu> well, I'm far off from making anything like a lathe.
[22:19:25] <gezar> you could with a good scraper widdle down a massive hunk of iron :)
[22:19:31] <anonimasu> I want a 500mm bed machine with a toolchanger
[22:19:46] <anonimasu> my plan is to rough it out on the big mill of mine
[22:19:48] <gezar> cast iron base or bold on?
[22:19:58] <gezar> bolt sorry
[22:20:13] <anonimasu> I didnt decide yet :)
[22:20:16] <gezar> ah
[22:20:32] <gezar> not aluminum though right?
[22:20:35] <anonimasu> no
[22:20:55] <anonimasu> hot rolled construction steel in worst case..
[22:21:03] <gezar> if your going to rough it on your mill, your really not going to need to scrape that much
[22:21:12] <gezar> if any at all
[22:21:26] <gezar> unless your talking about frosting and flaking
[22:21:36] <anonimasu> nah..
[22:21:37] <gezar> the pretty hook looking stuff
[22:21:41] <anonimasu> just to get it super super flat..
[22:21:44] <anonimasu> and square
[22:21:59] <gezar> you shooting at sub .0001?
[22:22:28] <anonimasu> about there would be sweet
[22:22:34] <gezar> cause that would be a fine work of art for sure
[22:22:48] <anonimasu> less then 0.01mm is what I'd like
[22:22:54] <gezar> you can do it, scraping is a blast
[22:22:59] <BigJohnT> how do you make a box way?
[22:23:22] <gezar> either in a T or inverted L
[22:23:27] <jymm> tell it it's fat?
[22:23:38] <anonimasu> inverted L
[22:23:41] <jymm> ...in those jeans
[22:23:50] <gezar> is that a fat joke?
[22:23:54] <BigJohnT> so it is not really a box shape...
[22:23:58] <gezar> :)
[22:24:01] <anonimasu> hehe no
[22:24:13] <jymm> gezar: If the bon bon fits...
[22:24:15] <anonimasu> I think they are easier to machine and get really nice
[22:24:26] <BigJohnT> never climbed in to look at one
[22:24:44] <anonimasu> seems like all new macnines go for box ways
[22:24:59] <gezar> new machines are using rails for the most part :(
[22:25:06] <anonimasu> not the heavier ones
[22:25:12] <gezar> thats true
[22:25:18] <BigJohnT> linear rails?
[22:25:21] <gezar> yeah
[22:25:32] <gezar> but big heavy lathes have a fancy v set up though
[22:25:46] <anonimasu> _^_
[22:25:48] <anonimasu> like that
[22:26:08] <gezar> less stuff to mess with in terms of fitting
[22:26:22] <anonimasu> http://www.machinerywholesalersne.com/images/CNC_Bed_Mills/cnc-2616.jpg
[22:26:23] <gezar> anonimasu : you going to use a shim on each side?
[22:26:25] <anonimasu> there you have box ways
[22:26:33] <BigJohnT> I've been thinking of making a small XZ table to strap on my manual lathe...
[22:27:01] <anonimasu> just machine it very tight and scrape
[22:27:05] <gezar> I just want some free time to piddle once again
[22:27:20] <gezar> oh, I made a 90 on my most recent cal 3 test :)
[22:27:36] <anonimasu> gezar: well, it's a time/work tradeoff
[22:28:13] <gezar> I have a southbend I want to restore, I milled the bed, and sorta screwed that up pretty good, its goign to be a lot of work to get it fixed
[22:28:31] <gezar> well in this case work==money, its hard to find a big machine to work on
[22:28:47] <anonimasu> gezar: I want ot machine as much as I can as that's easier to find time for then scraping
[22:28:49] <gezar> but my mini cnc machine is doable, I have zero time
[22:29:17] <gezar> anonimasu : since youll be rough milling, and using square ways, your going to be at .001 right off the bat
[22:29:42] <gezar> just indicate everything in really good, so that when you make the matching cuts they are || with each other
[22:29:51] <anonimasu> yeah, that's what I figure too
[22:30:14] <gezar> and you know, if you get .0005" off the bat, call it good, and buy some trucite, and scrape that stuff
[22:30:39] <anonimasu> ah the big mill of mine's a nc mill so getting them paralell should be easy
[22:30:40] <gezar> you can get enough trucite to cover your moving surfaces for like 20 bucks
[22:31:16] <anonimasu> and linear scales so getting even closer should be doable
[22:31:28] <gezar> then scrap that stuff in and add your oil groves and you will end up with a uber machine(they use uber on max pad comercials to describe the absorency so I can officially use it now )
[22:31:45] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:32:04] <gezar> anonimasu : how does that sound versus using metal on metal?
[22:32:14] <anonimasu> hehe, im in north sweden getting micrometer blue is hard :p
[22:32:29] <gezar> oil paints man, oil paints
[22:32:36] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:32:55] <gezar> or wait wait wait, persian blue, or red, um, engine repair companies?
[22:33:17] <anonimasu> yeah, but it's hard to find here :)
[22:33:19] <gezar> engine rebuilders use the red stuff and its better to work with, you really dont want to use the oil based stuff
[22:33:31] <gezar> I can squeeze you some into a container?
[22:33:40] <gezar> that sounds really really bad, but I can do it
[22:33:52] <anonimasu> thanks for the offer! though not yet :)
[22:34:02] <anonimasu> http://www.toolfastdirect.co.uk/acatalog/stuarts_micrometer_marking_blue_large.JPG
[22:34:05] <anonimasu> that's the stuff
[22:34:07] <gezar> let me know, ive got a 3 " tube
[22:34:28] <gezar> oh wow, let me see if I can find a link of what ive got
[22:34:55] <anonimasu> the goal is to make a machine rigid enough to bore out some bushings and stuff
[22:36:15] <gezar> yeah, your going to want to use trucite
[22:36:32] <Gamma-x> i finaly got in contact with rogern. he will soon be sending me all the info from the anilam control he converted to emc.
[22:36:51] <gezar> Gamma-x: awsome
[22:37:03] <Gamma-x> but im like 500 miles away from my machine.
[22:37:17] <Gamma-x> and then i have to figure out how to hook up the vfd
[23:35:13] <stustev> SWPadnos: there are only two modes to choose in Axis - manual and mdi - the same action in TKEMC when changing from manual to either auto or mdi
[23:47:37] <SWPadnos> stustev, right - I realized that you must have been in manual mode to home
[23:47:57] <SWPadnos> Axis automatically switches to auto when you run a program
[23:55:30] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC just got partial order from deal extreme... I'm happy so far =)