#emc | Logs for 2008-11-15

[00:04:46] <fenn> good
[00:05:12] <fenn> make sure it stays below 11200 and doesnt have 100ms spikes every 64 seconds or whatever
[00:07:05] <archivist> playing solitare glxgears and has the screensaver app on as well showing flying components, reached 11722
[00:09:55] <archivist> seeing no nasty spikes
[00:11:29] <archivist> loading more games pushed it to 13100
[00:21:59] <gezar> I do not understand something in c++ at all right now
[00:22:04] <gezar> sigh
[00:24:13] <fenn> spew away
[00:24:24] <dmess> fyi i do not understand ALOT of c++ right now...:)
[00:24:43] <fenn> by stating the problem, most likely you will see the solution
[00:24:56] <archivist> * archivist just understands the C part
[00:25:00] <dmess> or Fenn will
[00:25:29] <gezar> well, its related to classes, I have my class defined in my header, and then class functions in class.cpp. but for whatever ever reason main.cpp just will not accept it, but if I put all the functions into my .h file, everything is fine
[00:25:37] <dmess> likewise Arch... and have forgotten alot of that even
[00:26:12] <gezar> and when I sent my code to a friend with a linux box, it worked fine
[00:26:21] <gezar> with the 3 files
[00:26:46] <dmess> ahhh its a winBlows problem then... or not..
[00:26:51] <gezar> I dont know
[00:27:29] <dmess> they'll deny it... did you send a report off to m/sft
[00:27:35] <gezar> I want to say yes it is, but what ive been writting should work with .net or g++ ..
[00:27:51] <gezar> hahaha, ide rather ask my grandmother for support
[00:28:09] <dmess> but does IT work well in M/crap
[00:28:14] <gezar> yeah
[00:28:31] <fenn> gezar: does it work if you add function prototypes at the top of main.cpp?
[00:28:37] <gezar> I pulled the code functions out of the c file, and plopped them into the header and it works
[00:28:46] <dmess> Fenn is support.. I;m comic relief...
[00:28:54] <gezar> fenn, it does if I put them in the .h
[00:29:04] <fenn> no, prototypes in .cpp
[00:29:05] <gezar> here, mind if I paste to rafb.net/
[00:29:10] <fenn> not at all
[00:29:18] <gezar> no, were assigned to use .h .cpp, and then a main.cpp
[00:30:08] <gezar> header is http://rafb.net/p/GZgO8v74.html
[00:30:38] <fenn> heh gotta love that OOP stuff
[00:30:57] <gezar> class functions is http://rafb.net/p/miuia272.html
[00:31:42] <anonimasu> gezar: show the main.cpp too
[00:32:01] <anonimasu> :)
[00:33:57] <gezar> sorry,
[00:34:13] <gezar> dumped the entire file into this buffer, had to clear it out, main.cpp link comming
[00:34:29] <gezar> http://rafb.net/p/P7J3ue92.html
[00:34:33] <anonimasu> and are you compiling it correctly?
[00:34:35] <gezar> im sorry about the way
[00:34:36] <gezar> yeah
[00:34:53] <anonimasu> ie gpp main.cpp classes.cpp
[00:35:02] <gezar> that main is missing the main function, yeah, well, hmm
[00:35:17] <gezar> you know, I never thought about that
[00:35:19] <anonimasu> you need to have a #include "myheader.h"
[00:35:20] <fenn> hmm how do i download raw text from rafb
[00:35:27] <anonimasu> in the other cpp file..
[00:35:39] <gezar> anonimasu when I do that, it becomes bad
[00:35:55] <anonimasu> how so?
[00:35:57] <gezar> this may be an issue with compile directives, like your saying
[00:36:23] <gezar> let me try and re order the files in .net
[00:36:29] <anonimasu> are you coding .net?¤"#!Q
[00:36:42] <fenn> * fenn had to use .NET last night :(
[00:36:45] <anonimasu> c# or c++?
[00:36:52] <gezar> c++
[00:36:54] <anonimasu> I like .net alot actually it works really well
[00:37:01] <fenn> icky
[00:37:10] <anonimasu> (c# that is)
[00:37:12] <gezar> I dont know if it is compiling main or the cpp file firest..
[00:37:33] <anonimasu> it shoudlnt matter it's in the linking the fun stuff starts to happen anyway
[00:37:50] <fenn> they both should point to the header so it shouldnt matter
[00:37:56] <anonimasu> yep
[00:38:07] <gezar> well, in the format that I pased to you guys it works
[00:38:10] <anonimasu> but the fact that you cant have your header in your mstuff.cpp is a issue
[00:38:23] <gezar> I just wont be satisfying the requirement to have the functions in a seperate cpp file...
[00:38:27] <anonimasu> oh, I remember..
[00:38:39] <anonimasu> hold on
[00:39:25] <anonimasu> your use of the header file and stuff are wrong..
[00:39:45] <anonimasu> you should stick your class into the header file and just #include it..
[00:40:05] <anonimasu> as it's just a container until you create a object with it..
[00:40:22] <gezar> well, originally, I had just the class in the header, then the fucntions in accounts.cpp,
[00:40:42] <gezar> the including "accounts.h" and accounts.cpp" in main
[00:40:45] <anonimasu> you should keep it in a .h, as you need to reference it ot be able to create the object..
[00:40:57] <gezar> thats what I have done now
[00:41:05] <anonimasu> does it work?
[00:41:08] <gezar> yeah
[00:41:10] <anonimasu> :)
[00:41:12] <gezar> the way its pasted works
[00:41:46] <gezar> the class func file is commented out, and I added it to the end of the header, that doesnt meat the requirements however, but Im unable to see past it
[00:42:02] <anonimasu> uh, why dosent it meet the requirement?
[00:42:03] <SWPadnos> no no no, don't put functions into header files, unless they're trivial inline functions (in the class definition itself)
[00:42:17] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: you missed that that's what he's doing
[00:42:27] <gezar> yeah, exactly SWPadnos, thats what is not working
[00:42:46] <SWPadnos> I saw that, but you (anonimasu) said "you should stick your class into the header file and just #include it."
[00:43:03] <gezar> thats the only way, I can get it to compile as is
[00:43:13] <SWPadnos> which I interpreted to mean "put the function implementations into the header"
[00:43:15] <SWPadnos> which is wrong
[00:43:31] <SWPadnos> you need to tell the IDE to link the two object files together
[00:43:43] <gezar> oh? how do I do that?
[00:43:44] <SWPadnos> I'm assuming you're using some MS IDE (like VC++)
[00:43:50] <gezar> .net 2008
[00:43:56] <gezar> err, 2005
[00:44:04] <SWPadnos> you probably need to create a project and add both "units" or whetever MS calls them to the project
[00:44:16] <gezar> the way I had it, works with g++
[00:44:22] <SWPadnos> yes, g++ is smarter ;)
[00:44:25] <gezar> let me change it back, and check the error
[00:44:51] <anonimasu> c++.net is a blasphemy. c# is much nicer
[00:45:02] <SWPadnos> actually, if you just compiled both cpp files, but didn't generate an executable, then g++ wasn't trying to link at all (and therefore didn't give you any errors)
[00:45:23] <anonimasu> c++.net is like c++ with random bits of c# stuck on top to cope with the framework issues
[00:45:29] <gezar> error C2653: 'Account' : is not a class or namespace name, let me try to build seperately
[00:45:39] <SWPadnos> but if you compiled as someone suggested, with both cpp files on the same line, then gpp would be spart enough to use both object files in the link stage
[00:46:19] <anonimasu> gezar: hold on and I'll see if I remember how you do it in vs
[00:46:57] <gezar> on the same line?
[00:47:21] <anonimasu> btw, if you use the add class wizard it make both a cpp and a header file for yo
[00:47:22] <anonimasu> you..
[00:47:37] <anonimasu> let click in the solution explorer and click add class
[00:47:41] <anonimasu> left..
[00:47:45] <anonimasu> err right..
[00:47:46] <anonimasu> :p
[00:47:47] <SWPadnos> on the same line: <anonimasu>ie gpp main.cpp classes.cpp
[00:48:05] <gezar> ah ha
[00:48:37] <SWPadnos> where did you get that error? (on which cpp file)
[00:48:48] <SWPadnos> and on what line
[00:49:07] <gezar> line 6 of the func file
[00:49:29] <SWPadnos> oh, you need to include account.h in the account.cpp file as well
[00:49:41] <gezar> let me do that again and show the error
[00:49:44] <SWPadnos> otherwise the compiler doesn't know the class definition
[00:50:16] <gezar> a tone of redefinitions
[00:50:34] <gezar> let me see if I can figure out
[00:50:36] <SWPadnos> you shouldn't have the functions in the header, only the class definition
[00:50:50] <SWPadnos> the header must be included in the class.cpp file, and all the functions should be there
[00:50:56] <gezar> I dont have them now, let me re paste
[00:51:51] <gezar> http://rafb.net/p/gWEaR634.html
[00:52:20] <gezar> there is the header, the the class.cpp file is just the functions, with an #include"accounts.h"
[00:52:34] <anonimasu> gezar: you are messing something up
[00:52:39] <SWPadnos> you forgot to delete the Account::Account() function
[00:52:42] <anonimasu> I added a header file to my project
[00:52:58] <anonimasu> made a class and added inline void test(); into it
[00:53:00] <gezar> I have the deconstructor ~Accounts()
[00:53:05] <anonimasu> then I wrote my function in another file
[00:53:26] <gezar> this worked on a linux box, the proper way, It just wont compile in .net
[00:53:29] <SWPadnos> if that file you just pasted is the header, then you forgot to remove the Account::Account() function
[00:53:56] <SWPadnos> and you'll get "duplicate function definitions" if you didn't forget to uncomment it in the Account.cpp file :)
[00:53:59] <gezar> crap thanks
[00:54:46] <gezar> oh my, give me some time to re fix this
[00:57:58] <archivist> SWPadnos, some googling for a new toy I have and I came across your kiosk computer, have you put emc on it and tested the touch screen part
[00:58:06] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:58:16] <gezar> okay, if I have my .h, and my .cpp with an include to the .h, and then in main.cpp just including the .cpp same types of errors, if I include the .h in main as well, it over defines everything
[00:58:18] <SWPadnos> it works fine, but I think the latencies aren't great for software step generation
[00:58:43] <SWPadnos> it's also only 800x600, and the motherboard can't go much further (even if you can find a display to replace the one on it)
[00:58:44] <archivist> Im getting 13100 at the moment
[00:59:10] <SWPadnos> I had it around 6000 before, but that was on an older 2.4 kernel based BDI
[00:59:12] <archivist> and 1200x1024 screen on mine
[00:59:20] <SWPadnos> I think it's in the 16000 range now
[00:59:28] <anonimasu> gezar: as you are inlining your stuff into the class I dont think you should include it into your class.cpp
[00:59:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm, must be a differnt computer
[00:59:44] <archivist> seems a usable toy though
[00:59:46] <SWPadnos> I'd be surprised if you had a 12" 1280x1024 screen
[00:59:57] <archivist> P4 1.8 G
[01:00:02] <archivist> 17"
[01:00:13] <anonimasu> you'll be inlining the stuff into it anway on compile time.. so adding the header file to the file it's referencing gets funky ;)
[01:00:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: kiosk computer?
[01:00:22] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:00:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: do I have one?
[01:00:49] <SWPadnos> mine is a celeron 500 with integrated video driving an 800x600 LCD with touchscreen
[01:00:58] <SWPadnos> no CD-ROM, notr any place to put one
[01:01:01] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh, that one, nm
[01:01:10] <SWPadnos> no USB (but there's supposedly a 1.1 header)
[01:01:23] <SWPadnos> it does have 4 serial and 2 parallel ports though, and 2 PCI slots
[01:01:41] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I thought they were talking about the artigo
[01:01:42] <archivist> I have usb and cdrom 2pci and 4 serial
[01:01:44] <gezar> omg, Ive got it i think
[01:01:47] <SWPadnos> nope
[01:01:54] <SWPadnos> ok, so not the same thing :)
[01:02:11] <archivist> jymm http://ppc.mte.com.tw/ look at panel pc
[01:02:31] <gezar> yeah ive got it
[01:02:36] <archivist> I have the industrial 19" mount one
[01:02:51] <archivist> which they dont have on the site
[01:02:59] <JymmmEMC> archivist: ah, ok
[01:03:09] <gezar> anonimasu : you were right, how it works the way it does Im yet to understand, but im 4 hours behind now, and things seem happy
[01:03:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you know the DUBM thing they did to that artigo?
[01:03:26] <JymmmEMC> DUMB
[01:03:37] <anonimasu> :)
[01:04:00] <SWPadnos> which one?
[01:04:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: No usb in the back if you install it in a 5.25" drive bay
[01:04:04] <gezar> this is great, just have a .h, the functions.c including the .h, and then main.c no including any thing
[01:04:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: the pico ITX
[01:04:13] <SWPadnos> heh, right :)
[01:04:26] <gezar> nope, I have the main.c including the header as well, but now its working
[01:04:26] <SWPadnos> the main.c needs to include the .h as well
[01:04:33] <SWPadnos> right;
[01:06:23] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[01:07:01] <gezar> so ive had contact with an adrionio board? they are pretty neat
[01:07:11] <anonimasu> night
[01:07:19] <gezar> goodnight anonimasu and thank you
[01:07:39] <anonimasu> glad to be of help ^_^
[01:07:47] <gezar> :)
[01:07:54] <SWPadnos> see you anonimasu
[01:09:34] <anonimasu> this is creepy I'm starting to enjoy phsyics problems like jymms :P
[01:09:45] <JymmmEMC> lol
[01:09:47] <SWPadnos> heh, they're fun aren't they
[01:09:58] <archivist> sad!
[01:10:05] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: It's called thinking OUTSIDE the box =)
[01:10:05] <anonimasu> I'm soon finishing with my basic phsics course and the world's making alot more sense now ;)
[01:10:18] <anonimasu> err very soon I'll be finished with it
[01:10:21] <SWPadnos> oh JymmmEMC, I scanned through that paper you linked
[01:10:28] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: It's all relative and sucks =)
[01:10:35] <anonimasu> physics*grin*
[01:10:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: jeeeees =)
[01:10:41] <archivist> * archivist stuffs JymmmEMC back in his box
[01:10:43] <SWPadnos> note that they were shining 1W/cm^2 of UV on that stuff
[01:11:05] <anonimasu> uv is different from normal light too
[01:11:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ok, so I need 440 3ph with 100a main =)
[01:11:19] <SWPadnos> that's 10x the amount of total energy in sunlight, and I'm not sure how many more times the amount of UV in sunlight
[01:11:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:11:43] <anonimasu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet
[01:12:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I think to solve this I'm going to have to go organic
[01:12:16] <SWPadnos> I just don't feel like going through the exercise of figuring out hwat amount of energy is in which parts of the spectrum :)
[01:12:20] <SWPadnos> heh, could be
[01:12:26] <SWPadnos> like cockroaches ;)
[01:12:36] <anonimasu> oh, it's calculated alread
[01:12:38] <anonimasu> y
[01:12:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Like plant life
[01:13:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Even if I had some fiber and make it act like a rubberband when light hits it
[01:13:52] <anonimasu> bujt
[01:13:55] <anonimasu> but there isnt
[01:14:07] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: I'm not sure about that
[01:14:15] <SWPadnos> just get a drunk to sit by the window. whenever it gets light, they'll roll over one way, when it gets dark, they may roll back
[01:14:15] <JymmmEMC> But I know someone that would
[01:14:38] <anonimasu> JymmmEMC: I think you are pushing it..
[01:14:44] <anonimasu> experimental stuff isnt stuff you can use yet
[01:14:46] <anonimasu> :/
[01:14:55] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: What's to lose?
[01:15:07] <anonimasu> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[01:15:17] <JymmmEMC> Nah
[01:15:21] <anonimasu> unobtanium is always nice..
[01:16:07] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm.... if light is really radiation.... can light act as a filter to other types/forms of radiation?
[01:16:38] <JymmmEMC> well, either a filter, or enhancer?
[01:17:39] <SWPadnos> radiation exhibits the property of superposition
[01:18:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Could you say rephrase that in "dumbass" please
[01:18:06] <SWPadnos> which means that different "bits" of radiation don't interfere with each other - they just cross and go their merry ways
[01:19:05] <SWPadnos> (though you will see interference patterns, which are used to make holograms for instance, since multiple waves that are in phase or our of phase hit and are absorbed by the film)
[01:19:15] <SWPadnos> s/our/out/
[01:20:54] <JymmmEMC> I was thinking cesium and light =)
[01:21:22] <JymmmEMC> still not mechanical energy, but just pulled that one out of my ass =)
[01:28:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ364098&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ364098
[01:29:15] <JymmmEMC> says "sunlight" so might be thermal
[01:29:28] <SWPadnos> well of course it's possible, it's just that nearly all processes for doing it convert the light to an intermediate form, such as heat or electricity
[01:29:41] <SWPadnos> (I say nearly all because of the paper you linked earlier :) )
[01:30:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I didn't actually *READ* that paper, just gave you the link to it. Way over my head =)
[01:30:45] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah, it is a bit in-depth
[01:30:59] <SWPadnos> I only scanned it - was busy trying to find a good replacement motherboard :(
[01:31:50] <JymmmEMC> did you find one?
[01:32:00] <SWPadnos> several. just trying to choose one
[01:32:24] <SWPadnos> it'll take weeks to get the thing RMA'ed through Gigabyte, and I'm past the 30 day NewEgg cutoff
[01:32:30] <SWPadnos> though I should try them anyway
[01:32:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: HAWT DAMN! http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/07/light-sensitive-shape-shifting-plastic-drives-motor/
[01:33:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Now to get my paws on some!!!
[01:33:47] <JymmmEMC> He LOOOOOOO Tokyo.... Come in Tokyo!!!!!
[01:34:06] <SWPadnos> I'll go get some for you if you pay for my flight :)
[01:35:36] <JymmmEMC> I think I'll write them instead =)
[01:35:41] <SWPadnos> bum
[01:37:09] <JymmmEMC> Already found the researchers email address =)
[01:38:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: oh shit... heres a video if it doing it's thing.... http://www.res.titech.ac.jp/~polymer/
[01:39:00] <anonimasu> JymmmEMC: but I hope you realize that it requires pulsed light to do any work like that
[01:39:21] <SWPadnos> no, it uses UV on one side and daylight on the other
[01:39:32] <SWPadnos> UV makes it contract and daylight makes it stretch again
[01:39:51] <anonimasu> ah I miseed that
[01:39:53] <anonimasu> :)
[01:40:22] <SWPadnos> still unusable since you need UV to make it work (but the existence of sunlight on the other end would make it spin)
[01:40:41] <SWPadnos> so you'd have to use a friction thingie like a speedometer to make the lever move only when the motor is turning
[01:40:42] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Dude! That's what filters are for!
[01:41:12] <SWPadnos> well, that may work - use a very good UV-pass filter on one end, maybe a UV-block on the other
[01:41:23] <JymmmEMC> yep
[01:41:36] <SWPadnos> but it's very inefficient they said, so you'd have the same total energy problem as before
[01:41:58] <JymmmEMC> it doesn't need to be much
[01:42:23] <SWPadnos> even if you need 1 watt, and the mechanism were 100% efficient, that would be a couple of square inches (not much)
[01:42:47] <SWPadnos> the average small-ish solenoud is 6-12W
[01:42:51] <SWPadnos> solenoid
[01:43:04] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: but then you have no idea what he's moving either
[01:43:09] <SWPadnos> but you're getting there. give it a few years :)
[01:43:11] <anonimasu> what mass :)
[01:43:15] <SWPadnos> "a lever"
[01:43:18] <SWPadnos> :)
[01:43:21] <anonimasu> lol
[01:43:26] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: could be a needle valve
[01:43:42] <anonimasu> that dosent negate the fact that it has a mass :p
[01:43:52] <anonimasu> and friction
[01:43:52] <SWPadnos> that requires pressure, and that means you have to re-pressurize the stuff every night
[01:44:09] <JymmmEMC> and I just gave proof that it HAS been done.
[01:44:16] <SWPadnos> opening a needle valve between STP and STP does no good :)
[01:44:58] <anonimasu> I think I mised what jymm is goind to do with the valves
[01:45:12] <archivist> JymmmEMC, needs a lobotomy on his vagueness
[01:45:15] <SWPadnos> he never said
[01:45:19] <SWPadnos> crafty, huh?
[01:45:28] <JymmmEMC> =)
[01:45:29] <anonimasu> yeah.. he probably wants the patent
[01:45:43] <JymmmEMC> Patent? Hardly...
[01:46:02] <archivist> and everyone else to work it out for him
[01:46:04] <anonimasu> that's not a problem though, if he could be more specific about what he's moving and how fast and what it getighs
[01:46:08] <anonimasu> weighs
[01:46:16] <SWPadnos> he just doesn't want us to know how lazy he is. he could just as well get up every day and let the birds out of the cage :)
[01:46:25] <anonimasu> hehe
[01:46:27] <anonimasu> ^_^
[01:46:42] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You are COMPLETELY wrong there!
[01:46:49] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:46:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: They let themselves out all on their own!
[01:46:57] <SWPadnos> indeed
[01:47:10] <anonimasu> JymmmEMC: if you provide a example, "the needle weighs 12grams" we dont need to guess as much
[01:47:11] <SWPadnos> especially the parrots. they can just grab the latch and open it
[01:47:14] <anonimasu> :p
[01:47:21] <archivist> at least they have brains then
[01:47:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: they dont have a cage
[01:47:29] <SWPadnos> bird brains
[01:47:45] <SWPadnos> at least I still have all my eyeballs
[01:47:47] <SWPadnos> :)
[01:48:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: keep mucking with me and we can take care of that =)
[01:48:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:48:15] <anonimasu> :)
[01:48:53] <anonimasu> well, it's getting way too late for me
[01:49:19] <archivist> late for me too, but Im installing now
[01:49:26] <anonimasu> hehe my coordination is failing
[01:49:31] <anonimasu> it's a sign that it's time to slepe
[01:49:35] <anonimasu> sleep :)
[01:51:44] <SWPadnos> schlepp to sleep
[01:52:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Had a thought....
[01:52:38] <SWPadnos> he did?
[01:53:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: What if I were to introduce Azobenzene into a rubberband? The good Dr was attempting to have pure mechanical energy from light, I'm just trying to get some mechanical motion from light
[01:54:11] <SWPadnos> it could work. I don't know
[01:54:44] <SWPadnos> it would be nice to be able to just use a prism to split the UV to one end and "the rest" to the other end
[01:54:47] <JymmmEMC> If Azobenzene contracts with daylight, it might contract a rubberband, then use the properties of rubber itself to reform to it's "natural" shape
[01:55:05] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: the prism idea sounds good
[01:55:30] <SWPadnos> it seems that they had to expose it to normal sunlight to get it to relax though, which is the hard part
[01:55:47] <SWPadnos> your energy source (sunlight) provides both the contraction and relaxation
[01:56:21] <SWPadnos> which means (to me anyway) that you want something that stays "active" when it's moving, and becomes "inactive" when not moving
[01:56:26] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: well splitting the specturm sounds like a nice idea. even could have a colamiater help too
[01:56:35] <SWPadnos> like the speedometer-like thing I mentioned - it returns from spring force
[01:57:42] <JymmmEMC> dman it, I can't find if Azobenzene is on the control substances list
[02:00:57] <JymmmEMC> Nice.... Experimental carcinogen, equivocal tumorigenic agent.
[02:01:58] <JymmmEMC> LOL... Therapeutic Uses: insecticide
[02:02:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:02:07] <SWPadnos> that suonds therapeutic
[02:02:09] <SWPadnos> sounds
[02:02:20] <JymmmEMC> http://chembank.broad.harvard.edu/chemistry/viewMolecule.htm?cbid=1122
[02:02:36] <SWPadnos> from wikipedia: "According to the 1858 method, nitrobenzene is reduced by iron filings in the presence of acetic acid. In the modern synthesis, zinc is the reductant in the presence of base."
[02:02:40] <SWPadnos> acetic acid is vinegar
[02:03:53] <SWPadnos> you might be able to convince some unsuspecting chem student to make some for you :)
[02:04:01] <JymmmEMC> Not nitrobenzene, Azobenzene
[02:04:08] <JymmmEMC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azobenzene
[02:04:30] <SWPadnos> yes. to make azobenzene, you reduce nitrobenzene with iron filings and vinegar
[02:04:38] <SWPadnos> (from that wikipedia page ;) )
[02:04:57] <JymmmEMC> but where do I get nitrobenzene
[02:05:12] <SWPadnos> well, there's the rub :)
[02:05:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey fscker... Nitrobenzene is highly toxic (TLV 5 mg/m3) and readily absorbed through the skin.
[02:05:28] <SWPadnos> it looks like azobenzene is used in aniline dyes
[02:05:29] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: DOUBLE SMACK!
[02:05:38] <SWPadnos> what, you thought this would be SAFE! ???
[02:05:50] <JymmmEMC> azobenzene yes
[02:07:22] <SWPadnos> oh, it will relax on its own after a while
[02:07:27] <SWPadnos> so you don't need the blue light to do it
[02:07:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Just becasue you cant' decide on a mobo, doens't mean you have to kill me now! Eeeeesh, enny meeny minny moe for crying out loud if you can't decide!
[02:08:02] <SWPadnos> well, it has to support the Phenom X4 and at least 8GB RAM, or I don't want it
[02:08:14] <SWPadnos> don't ask me to choose between a fast computer and your life :)
[02:08:20] <JymmmEMC> you get 286 or nuttun!
[02:08:35] <JymmmEMC> no 16 bit for you!
[02:08:37] <SWPadnos> I've got a MILLION-86. muahahahahahaha
[02:09:09] <SWPadnos> (he says, in his best Dr. Evil voice)
[02:09:17] <JymmmEMC> lol
[02:10:03] <JymmmEMC> I wonder what azobenzene in it's pure would do when exposed to light?
[02:10:09] <JymmmEMC> ^form
[02:10:17] <SWPadnos> not much. I think it's a liquid
[02:10:29] <JymmmEMC> orange-red crystals
[02:10:33] <SWPadnos> hmm
[02:10:48] <SWPadnos> it may work as a hydraulic fluid though
[02:11:33] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'm thinking a very thin (mass surface area) air-tight (vacuum?) container that displaces air
[02:11:33] <SWPadnos> main hazards: toxic
[02:11:49] <SWPadnos> air-tight but not UV/light-tight ...
[02:11:50] <JymmmEMC> Ok, so I need a hazmat suit
[02:12:10] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: sandwiched between two panes of glass
[02:12:34] <SWPadnos> glass blocks about 95% of UV though, unless you get special glass
[02:13:01] <JymmmEMC> I'd have to have a glass blower make the cintainer for me
[02:13:09] <JymmmEMC> container
[02:13:16] <SWPadnos> with a special formulation of glass
[02:13:26] <SWPadnos> not just a special shape
[02:13:39] <JymmmEMC> I still need to get my hands on this stuff first =)
[02:13:58] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah. didin't notice any distributors in a quick google search ;)
[02:14:22] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[02:15:25] <SWPadnos> http://www.parchem.com/
[02:15:28] <JymmmEMC> Heh found the MSDS
[02:16:25] <JymmmEMC> https://www.ultrasci.com/ultra/catalogmsds.aspx?productnum=33819030
[02:19:03] <JymmmEMC> $12
[02:19:11] <JymmmEMC> for 1mL
[02:19:19] <JymmmEMC> in methanol
[02:19:44] <JymmmEMC> $36 for 4mL
[02:20:19] <SWPadnos> R20/22Harmful by inhalation and if swallowed.
[02:20:20] <SWPadnos> R45May cause cancer.
[02:20:22] <SWPadnos> R50/53Very toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.
[02:20:23] <SWPadnos> R68Possible risks of irreversible effects.
[02:20:47] <JymmmEMC> Yes, I know is a carcigenic
[02:21:08] <JymmmEMC> I did say HazMat suit earlier, didn't I ?
[02:21:11] <JymmmEMC> =)
[02:21:26] <SWPadnos> yep, and it's an environmental hazard, which doesn't dissolve well in water
[02:22:26] <JymmmEMC> 1mL == 0.2 teaspoons
[02:23:11] <SWPadnos> http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search/ProductDetail/SIAL/424633
[02:23:24] <SWPadnos> 5g or 25g, $27.4\30 and $109.00 respectively
[02:23:32] <SWPadnos> err, $27.30
[02:23:38] <SWPadnos> that's in the crystal form
[02:24:59] <JymmmEMC> Though I wonder if crystal or liquid would be better?
[02:25:17] <toastydeath> you need a container with two layers of glass?
[02:25:23] <SWPadnos> you can always dissolve it if you need to, but I imagine getting back to crystalling form would be harder
[02:25:33] <SWPadnos> s/g/e/
[02:26:00] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: hows methanol in evaporating compared to denatued alcohol?
[02:26:30] <toastydeath> recrystallization is pretty easy provided you don't form an azeotrope
[02:26:37] <SWPadnos> note that all the mechanical thingies were "polymerized" - that means converted to a thin film and then stuck to something (more or less)
[02:26:40] <toastydeath> and rotovaps are cheap on ebay
[02:26:57] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, do you mean at dissolving the stuff?
[02:27:12] <SWPadnos> I don't know, but I'd use whatever they use :)
[02:27:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I can get azobenzene in a menthal solution
[02:27:22] <JymmmEMC> methanol
[02:27:42] <SWPadnos> I saw that, or you can get crystalline azobenzene and methanol, and dissolve it if you need to
[02:27:45] <JymmmEMC> I'm just not familure with menthanol in how fast it evaporates
[02:27:52] <SWPadnos> it's alcohol
[02:27:58] <JymmmEMC> I AM with denatured alcohol
[02:27:59] <toastydeath> it evaporates fairly quickly.
[02:28:11] <SWPadnos> it evaporates quickly, like other alcohols
[02:28:30] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC peers over at the gallon of denatured alcohol
[02:28:36] <SWPadnos> which is actually good - that may deposit a film of azobenzene onto something if you spread a solution and let it dry
[02:28:37] <toastydeath> if you buy a rotovap, you can pull off the alcohol fairly quickly and do it in a sealed environment
[02:28:53] <SWPadnos> we're talking a few ml of solution at most
[02:29:23] <toastydeath> oh
[02:29:26] <toastydeath> sry
[02:29:30] <SWPadnos> I think the concentration is pretty low too - one site said something like 10 micrograms/ml
[02:29:56] <JymmmEMC> the link yuou gave said 99%
[02:30:10] <SWPadnos> vs the Sigma Aldritch one that sells 5g of crystal (about 4.6 ml) for < 4ml of solution
[02:30:16] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:30:23] <SWPadnos> that's the crystal, not the solution
[02:30:34] <JymmmEMC> I'd rather have the crystal
[02:31:27] <toastydeath> if you don't have a problem just buying the crystal, most chemical suppliers don't ask if you have the permits.
[02:31:50] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: It was just finding the stuff =)
[02:32:04] <toastydeath> * toastydeath shrug
[02:32:07] <toastydeath> just trying to help =)
[02:32:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: in crystal form, when exposed to light, do you think it expands and contracts?
[02:32:22] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: it's all good =)
[02:32:38] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't imagine the crystal doing that, but I don't know
[02:33:18] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: What I'm thinking is just have a vial of the crystals, then attach a tube to it with a bladder on it
[02:33:48] <JymmmEMC> light hits the crystal, the bladder contracts. remove the light, the bladder expands
[02:34:14] <SWPadnos> yeah. I don't know if it's a requirement, but the experiments you found all had a coating of the stuff bonded to a substrate (generally a flexible plastic)
[02:34:26] <JymmmEMC> basically displacing the air in the sealed system
[02:35:06] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: remember the barometers you made in grade school with a jar and balloon?
[02:35:23] <SWPadnos> I think the important part there is that there's a mechanical link between the two benzene rings and the substrate, such that when the molecule switches to the contracted arrangement, it pulls the substrate (and adjacent molecules) along with it
[02:35:42] <SWPadnos> sure, it could work - it's sure easy to try
[02:36:14] <JymmmEMC> yeah just need some membrain
[03:07:20] <archivist> noo pc plays daisy on real hardware :)
[04:18:21] <archivist_emc> noo box on da web :)
[04:18:53] <archivist_emc> all the updates , now I can go home to bed
[04:23:34] <archivist_emc> note due to age they nare out of copyrightyes but you wont get though the door with a camera
[04:23:57] <archivist> oops wrong kb
[12:38:29] <archivist_emc> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:38:29] <archivist_emc> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-11-15.txt
[12:40:08] <fragalot> I sense that logger_emc has been up since 2004-10-18Z21:33:17
[12:41:17] <JymmmEMC> In math, what do you call A and B ? A / B = c
[12:41:32] <JymmmEMC> divisor and ?
[12:41:36] <fragalot> denominator ?
[12:41:45] <JymmmEMC> a or b?
[12:41:48] <fragalot> no idea
[12:41:49] <archivist> dividend
[12:42:34] <archivist> heh lazy bot was off a few days
[12:43:00] <anonimasu> terms I think
[12:43:06] <JymmmEMC> ah.. divisor is an integer which evenly divides n without leaving a remainder.
[12:43:22] <fragalot> I just know that i call A "num" and B "den" in my scripts
[12:43:26] <JymmmEMC> well, I now know what to call my functin =)
[12:44:44] <archivist> I call them variables
[12:44:59] <fragalot> lol
[12:45:08] <JymmmEMC> well, I need to break them down further =)
[12:45:34] <archivist> * archivist breaks JymmmEMC down further as he wishes
[12:46:28] <anonimasu> why?
[12:47:00] <JymmmEMC> some cryptography routines
[12:47:51] <anonimasu> well, they can be called terms or variables
[12:48:09] <JymmmEMC> but those aren't the proper mathematical terms
[12:48:20] <anonimasu> they are
[12:48:31] <anonimasu> divisor and dividend are what you are looking for though
[12:49:01] <JymmmEMC> In mathematics, a divisor of an integer n, also called a factor of n, is an integer which evenly divides n without leaving a remainder.
[12:49:03] <anonimasu> dividend / divisor
[12:49:11] <JymmmEMC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisibility
[12:50:23] <JymmmEMC> hmmm, dual menaing
[12:50:38] <archivist> no single meaning
[12:50:39] <JymmmEMC> dividend, b the divisor and c the quotient.
[12:52:19] <JymmmEMC> see last item for what I mean: http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Adivisor
[12:52:19] <anonimasu> well, terms are what you use in algebra, or variables
[12:54:57] <anonimasu> so, what's wrong with dividend and divisor?
[12:56:59] <archivist> he doesnt see the single use in the wp article :)
[13:33:15] <archivist_emc> success 0 stray cats were added.
[15:25:57] <archivist_emc> should we get joint following errors on sim models
[15:26:39] <archivist_emc> playing with fresh trunk and max5gui
[15:29:49] <SWPadnos> using RT "sim/xxx" configs?
[15:30:03] <archivist_emc> yup
[15:31:11] <SWPadnos> I don't think so, but there may be a bug lurking in the max5 kins - I think there was a problem somewhere when you had tool length comp on, and moved to certain poses
[15:31:12] <archivist> max5triv to be specific
[15:32:18] <SWPadnos> dunno that one specifically
[15:32:26] <archivist> hbm did the logo ok but max5triv fails
[15:32:37] <SWPadnos> hbm?
[15:33:01] <archivist> just looking to see whats involved to do one to match my machine
[15:33:23] <archivist> vismach/hbm
[15:33:33] <SWPadnos> hbm? :)
[15:33:43] <SWPadnos> ahh, horizontal boring mill
[15:34:03] <archivist> the new visuals :)
[15:34:28] <SWPadnos> I'll bet it has to do with kinematics, and the issues we've got with joint limits vs. axis limits for non-trivkins machines
[15:35:34] <archivist> dunno nuffing about that
[15:36:00] <SWPadnos> heh, and I thikn I've told you about all I know ;)
[15:36:01] <SWPadnos> think
[15:36:12] <archivist> hehe
[16:19:31] <archivist> Paragon, were you the winner?
[16:26:32] <Paragon> archivist Just checked, I am a WINNER :-) .... £33.88
[16:33:53] <archivist> I guessed it was you as you buyer nickname is pxxxx
[16:35:12] <archivist> I brought my cooke in today, it has a 6" gap between its feet
[17:42:29] <Paragon> archivist: You thought that did'nt you
[17:43:32] <Paragon> Ive been offered a Boxford AUD Lathe for £1600 inc vat (dealer) today does that seem a little on the high side?
[17:44:41] <archivist> he has to make a crust. but seen far better prices on fleabay, just never sure of condition
[17:46:51] <Paragon> I saw it at Home & Workshop Machinary I know Steve and Chris do a good job on there equipment. I bought my Denford Starmill and Starturn Lathe from them.
[17:47:25] <archivist> Im watching a Denford
[17:47:39] <Paragon> What Model?
[17:48:22] <archivist> easyturn
[17:49:13] <Paragon> Nice Machine! Incidently I think Boxford was started by Horace Denford of Denford Machine Tools.
[17:50:30] <archivist> ah that explain similarity
[17:51:08] <Paragon> And the Viceroy stuff also
[17:51:51] <archivist> that one will probably get beyond my current finances till I get a deal done for some parts
[17:52:57] <Paragon> archivist: It's a shame! Who the hell invented this thing called money? We should have a resource based economy... :-)
[17:53:37] <Paragon> See ... http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
[17:53:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:54:16] <SWPadnos> or try reading "The Creature from Jekyll Island", by G. Edward Griffin (if you want more in-depth information on the money part)
[17:54:46] <Paragon> SWPadnos: Is it a good read?
[17:55:02] <SWPadnos> it's interesting, for sure. good is a matter of perspective :)
[17:55:50] <Paragon> I quite liked the explanation of fractional based monetary system and how money is actually magicaly produced out of thin air.
[17:56:00] <SWPadnos> I wsa annoyed with some of the author's opinions getting in the way, but there's a lot (lot!) of excellent information and references if you can ignore those parts
[17:56:09] <SWPadnos> yes, "fiat money"
[17:56:32] <Paragon> Fiat Money ?
[17:56:43] <SWPadnos> that's what it's called
[17:56:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni suggests "Making money" by Terry Pratchett
[17:56:49] <alex_joni> gread read :)
[17:56:58] <Paragon> :-)
[17:57:22] <SWPadnos> it's actually "fractional reserve banking", but the money created out of thin air is called (by these guys) "fiat monet" - ie, money created by fiat rather tahn an actual creation of value
[17:57:24] <Paragon> Never heard it called that. What does fiat stand for?
[17:57:44] <archivist> shite cars
[17:57:45] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_currency
[17:57:51] <SWPadnos> it's not an acronym. fiat is a word :)
[17:57:55] <Paragon> looking...
[17:58:36] <SWPadnos> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fiat
[17:58:42] <SWPadnos> cool. didn't know about that site
[17:59:16] <ds3> like the HF fiat machinery? ;)
[17:59:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:59:40] <SWPadnos> I decree that this is actually machinery! :)
[17:59:49] <SWPadnos> not useless lumps of metal and plastic!
[17:59:55] <alex_joni> I say golems
[17:59:58] <archivist> still shite
[18:01:01] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Money
[18:01:11] <Paragon> The thing that astounds me is that for every dollar created a debt is attached to it due to interest charged from the fed reserve. To pay that debt the goverment needs to create more dollars which has debt and so on and on. So inflation will alway occur over time. Are we seeing the beginnings of the end.... Or is this whole thing orchestrated to get to one world goverment / bank ... ?
[18:01:33] <alex_joni> "gold standard vs. fiat currency, computer simulation, fraud, golems"
[18:02:05] <fragalot> fiat currency.. who the hell pays in cars?
[18:02:05] <fragalot> :p
[18:02:13] <Paragon> lol
[18:02:21] <SWPadnos> once you've finished Jekyll Island, move on to "Tragedy and Hope", by Carroll Quigley
[18:02:33] <archivist> fiats are made of papare there for equal to paper money
[18:02:41] <SWPadnos> (try to get the original 1968 version, not the reprint from the '70s)
[18:02:57] <SWPadnos> or maybe it was 1966 - hold on
[18:03:22] <SWPadnos> yep, 1966
[18:03:53] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: try a Discworld novel once.. I'm sure you'll love it
[18:03:58] <Paragon> I take a trip on to the library on Monday if I get the time.
[18:04:14] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, I've read most of them, at least all the ones that came out before the last few years
[18:04:22] <alex_joni> ah, great :D
[18:04:28] <alex_joni> manking money is from last year
[18:04:48] <SWPadnos> Paragon, and then, if you're still able to, pick up "A Century of War", by William Engdahl
[18:04:50] <Paragon> SWPadnos: Have you seen the Zeiggeist movie?
[18:05:10] <SWPadnos> ys, I have a dozen or so of the DVDs even (to give to people who "need" to see it :) )
[18:06:06] <Paragon> Cool.... I only came across it he other week. Completly by accident.
[18:06:32] <SWPadnos> I liked the older version, specifically during the part with the George Carlin skit
[18:06:38] <SWPadnos> but the new one is good too
[18:06:46] <mibo67> hmmm http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=9BrLrwbkQWQ its about why aliens invented money - german short movie
[18:08:35] <Paragon> I like the beginning of the new one and the middle and end of the first one. The religion bit didn't realy get me and there are concerns that the writer did not quote proofs for the statements (in the religious part)
[18:09:12] <Paragon> But over all a must watch!
[18:09:29] <SWPadnos> yes, they do make some leaps and their conclusions about the motivation for doing things aren't testable
[18:10:11] <SWPadnos> however, I have confirmed some of the facts with experts (an old friend who is a mythology buff, and a mythology professor)
[18:10:57] <SWPadnos> I haven't found any of their facts wrong, but of course you run into trouble when you decide you know what another person was thinking based on those facts
[18:11:04] <SWPadnos> (could be right, but who's to know?)
[18:11:12] <SWPadnos> oooh - time for food. bbl
[18:11:54] <Paragon> One problem with a resource based ecconomy is that to get to it we need to use the cash based ecconomy (as this is were we are today) so how is the cycle broken. Also if you have ever been to a wedding were there is a free bar people are just greedy and drink either to much or leave there glass somwhere half full and get another ... ;-)
[18:13:59] <Paragon> Still a resource based ecconomy would allow us to have what ever lathe we so choose :-)
[18:48:01] <Paragon> mibo67: Just watched that short. Very good!
[18:49:00] <Paragon> Gotta split Fellas .. off to pub for swift pint :-)
[19:04:11] <fragalot> http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=W9_DQjQbtTY
[19:04:12] <fragalot> bahahah
[19:06:22] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[22:13:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ping?
[22:20:32] <dmess> hi all
[22:20:55] <JymmmEMC> hola
[22:21:20] <JymmmEMC> nobody here for a few hours
[22:23:51] <dmess> loks so..
[22:23:54] <dmess> looks
[22:25:01] <dmess> i've been Ebay'n most of the day.. for x-mas gifts... may work on the lathe tomorrow.. we'll see..
[22:26:28] <JymmmEMC> heh
[22:26:38] <dmess> got a pair a sweet guitars for my son and and a friend's son... Martin backpacker's WITH pickups installed factory..
[22:26:49] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:27:25] <dmess> i have an all acoustic 1 and they are SWEET guitars
[22:27:46] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:27:57] <dmess> im currently winning on 5 other ones on e-bay
[22:27:59] <anonimasu> new/or old?
[22:28:04] <anonimasu> why do you need 5?
[22:28:05] <dmess> brand new
[22:28:09] <anonimasu> ok
[22:28:18] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is doubtful of new guitars
[22:28:18] <JymmmEMC> OT: I'm attempting to write a custom Base Conversion routine, but I'm having a hard time getting started. I think it's the basic math. I've used a few examples to try and get started but still not getting it.
[22:28:48] <anonimasu> my best guitar is a batard one :p(old japanese ibanez)
[22:28:48] <dmess> i have alot of family who fell in LOVE with mine this summer.... so for x mas if i can they get 1
[22:28:56] <anonimasu> bastard..
[22:29:25] <anonimasu> it's from 1979 or something(not worth any money though)
[22:29:32] <dmess> jap Ibanez??? i love the ibanez
[22:29:46] <JymmmEMC> My best and only guitar is a rubber band =)
[22:30:08] <anonimasu> it's a electric though
[22:30:27] <dmess> Jymmm gimme the math...
[22:30:42] <JymmmEMC> dmess: http://www.searchmarked.com/math/how-to-convert-from-base-10-decimal-to-any-other-base.php
[22:31:08] <dmess> anon.. yeah they sound sweet too my cousin has an '80ish one..
[22:31:28] <anonimasu> dmess: I just have one of the stock pickups the other one are a active emc, but it's going away soon
[22:31:28] <JymmmEMC> That page I get. I even found a one in php already but it chokes when I customize it http://www.geocities.com/oosterwal/computer/numericbase.html
[22:31:54] <anonimasu> emg makes nice pickups, but they are sterile I think
[22:32:15] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: wind your own =)
[22:32:38] <anonimasu> JymmmEMC: no, that's not really practical
[22:33:02] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: never said it was =)
[22:33:37] <dmess> http://cgi.ebay.com/MARTIN-BACKPACKER-GUITAR-WITH-PICKUP-GIGBAG-STRAP-NEW_W0QQitemZ200255184761QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item200255184761&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 i GOT 2 coming
[22:34:03] <anonimasu> dmess: I like it alot, I paus like 150eur for it :)
[22:34:06] <JymmmEMC> dmess: Your son's friend is gonna be surprised
[22:34:11] <anonimasu> yeah :D
[22:34:59] <dmess> so will mine... hes expeting a full acoustic.. and hounding for it
[22:35:27] <anonimasu> I like that you can play acustic with pickups with dist too
[22:35:42] <JymmmEMC> dmess: hit toys-r-us (or the dollar store) and get some plastic baby guitar
[22:35:46] <anonimasu> -_-
[22:35:55] <dmess> what 150 eur worth in cnuck bucks these days.. i was raped to the us dollar on these already...
[22:36:16] <anonimasu> 233 cad
[22:36:24] <JymmmEMC> dmess: hide their REAL presents in the garage or something. pack the plastic guitar in the same size box though.
[22:36:36] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:36:49] <anonimasu> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200274106353&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=200255184761&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m184&_trkparms=algo%3DDR%26its%3DS%252BI%252BSS%26itu%3DISS%252BUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4
[22:36:51] <dmess> well they are gonna land at 300 canadian a piece.. ;(
[22:38:06] <dmess> ii like your thinkin' Jymmm
[22:38:50] <JymmmEMC> dmess: Or... get all the raw materials to MAKE a guitar, and give them that.
[22:38:54] <anonimasu> damn.. I missed paul gilbert in stockholm
[22:40:00] <dmess> i sent a pair of earings to my sister up north once in a 3x3x3 box... with 10-12 other boxes in it.... the kids were little then and it turned into a game... of boxes and tape...
[22:40:23] <JymmmEMC> duct tape.... LOTS AND LOTS of duct tape
[22:40:35] <anonimasu> packing tape are better ;)
[22:40:43] <anonimasu> duct tape only adheres well to other duct tape
[22:40:50] <dmess> it is the ONLY Martin guitar made in Mexico... so how hard would a Kit be??
[22:40:52] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: too easy to cut thru though
[22:40:59] <anonimasu> packaging tape adheres to everything and leaveas glue ;)
[22:41:08] <anonimasu> :)
[22:41:16] <anonimasu> dmess: make aluminium guitars ;)
[22:41:22] <JymmmEMC> lol
[22:42:03] <dmess> my 2 sons used it ALL that day... poured syrup in some boxes... with a choclate treat... LOL
[22:43:11] <dmess> i have 2 male fools an 1 female smartie pants in the family
[22:44:48] <dmess> i was at bob dylan this past Wednesday ... with my oldest son.. had a blast
[22:46:38] <anonimasu> :)
[22:49:25] <dmess> but he didnt play the guitar... organ and harp only...
[23:07:03] <dmess> anon... my sis called on the telephone to ask WTF she was lookin' for.... ;)
[23:07:25] <anonimasu> lol
[23:07:34] <dmess> all i could reply was the boys hid it...
[23:08:10] <dmess> good luck