#emc | Logs for 2008-11-04

[00:00:01] <toastydeath> but for tooling around and just playing with it, could be useful
[00:00:23] <SWPadnos> heh, if you end up doing something useful with it before deciding the UI is inscrutable, let me know ;)
[00:00:33] <SWPadnos> there's also 3dsMax and GMax
[00:00:51] <toastydeath> lol
[00:00:52] <SWPadnos> and you can even get a 5-axis toolpath generator for those (which will generate code for EMC2)
[00:02:12] <toastydeath> which will be handy someday when it comes time to make a gantry router to make the molds
[02:44:13] <crotchet> /clear
[02:44:18] <crotchet> oops-
[03:10:13] <cradek> http://imagebin.org/30291
[03:10:21] <cradek> neat - a bike computer for an rpm readout
[03:10:56] <JymmmEMC> they are not cheap
[03:11:17] <cradek> $20 I thought?
[03:11:27] <cradek> fir a very basic one
[03:11:29] <cradek> o
[03:11:46] <JymmmEMC> I wasn't that lucky, most I saw were $35, and that's EXACTLY what I wanted to use it for too =)
[03:11:56] <cradek> heh
[03:12:27] <cradek> if you have an input, you could easily do it in hal.
[03:12:50] <JymmmEMC> in hall with a hall =)
[03:12:59] <JymmmEMC> err.. in hal with a hall =)
[03:13:54] <JymmmEMC> Actually, I couldn't fingure out a way to attach it to my spindle, starting looking into the optical RPM sensors for a bit.
[03:14:07] <cradek> yeah that's going to be the hard part I bet.
[03:15:26] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Well, if you haven't heard, I'm getting ready to sell my router. If I am able to sell it for a decent price, I'm considering getting a laser engraver instead.
[03:17:01] <cradek> cool
[03:17:17] <cradek> were you ever happy with how it works, or does it still have problems?
[03:18:39] <JymmmEMC> When it DID work, I created some nice things. Kinda catches up to you when you run a job for 2hours at a time and one tiny lil stall ruins the whole thing... five times in a row.
[03:19:42] <cradek> yuck.
[03:20:11] <JymmmEMC> To be honest, the router was a pseudo alternative to a laser in the first place. The laser I wanted was $20K, so I invested in the router thinking I could earn enough to buy a laser.
[03:21:07] <JymmmEMC> Now, I think I'll just buy a tabletop laser instead. Not the power nor the workarea I wanted, but I think I might be able to create some nice thigns with it at least.
[03:22:15] <JymmmEMC> cradek: http://www.ulsinc.com/english/laser_systems/product_line/VersaLaser.html
[03:22:28] <cradek> get one big enough to engrave overpriced macintosh laptops for people - I bet there's money in that
[03:22:57] <cradek> but some of those silly laptops are about a yard wide...
[03:23:04] <JymmmEMC> That was one of the first things I thought of =)
[03:23:13] <JymmmEMC> well 12" x 16"
[03:23:22] <JymmmEMC> it's the 12" that kills me
[03:25:26] <JymmmEMC> laser sample photos... http://www.gccworld.com/application.php?PROD_TYPE=laser_engraver
[03:30:30] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Hey! A MBP 17" is only 15.4" x 10.4" hawt damn!
[03:32:24] <cradek> beware - they are always getting bigger
[03:32:45] <JymmmEMC> heh, well the NEWEST MB's are 13.4" display now.
[03:32:56] <JymmmEMC> they are nice too
[03:33:10] <cradek> oh smaller? I thought they only got bigger
[03:33:15] <cradek> * cradek hugs his thinkpad
[03:33:43] <JymmmEMC> The NEw stuff is kinda cool now, just remove the battery cover to pull out the hdd, no tools needed.
[03:34:05] <cradek> neat. they have some neat hardware ideas.
[03:34:16] <JymmmEMC> They are dropping firewire though
[03:34:36] <cradek> I've never in my life used firewire
[03:34:44] <JymmmEMC> and the video connector is totally new... optional and like $40 if you want to connect to ext lcd
[03:35:03] <JymmmEMC> Oh I do, for my camcorder and my ext 1tb hdd
[03:35:07] <cradek> also I've never hooked my thinkpad to a monitor - why would I do that?
[03:35:23] <JymmmEMC> lol, really? never ever?
[03:35:27] <cradek> nope
[03:35:31] <cradek> why (seriously)?
[03:35:41] <cradek> a keyboard I could see - maybe
[03:35:47] <cradek> mouse, definitely
[03:35:59] <JymmmEMC> Well, at work I'm on a 24" lcd, so much easier to work than 15"
[03:36:24] <jmkasunich> laptop screens are way too small
[03:36:42] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: Heh, and I want an Acer too =)
[03:36:42] <cradek> jmkasunich: mine's 1600x1200 and seems just right
[03:36:53] <JymmmEMC> cradek: 17" ?
[03:36:57] <jmkasunich> I park my work laptop next to the 19" monitor from my former desktop, and use both ;-)
[03:37:09] <jmkasunich> cradek: its not the resolution, just the size
[03:37:39] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: Yeah, many do the two screen setup, I just leave it closed and work on the 24". I just have spaces setup
[03:37:39] <cradek> JymmmEMC: 15 I think
[03:37:42] <jmkasunich> wait till your eyes start going
[03:37:50] <cradek> holy effing crap, it was $4000 new
[03:38:00] <JymmmEMC> cradek: what model?
[03:38:06] <cradek> A31p
[03:38:10] <cradek> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,544077,00.asp
[03:38:17] <cradek> no wonder it's a great laptop
[03:41:45] <JymmmEMC> cradek: I like two page up display personally, so ext lcd allows me that for the most part.
[03:43:01] <jmkasunich> I use the big tube for CAD or whatever else I'm primarily working on, the smaller lappy screen has email client, etc
[03:47:13] <tomp2> woof!
[03:49:54] <JymmmEMC> hola
[08:53:16] <Fisia> hi
[08:53:24] <micges> hi
[08:53:59] <Fisia> :)
[08:56:26] <Fisia> What IF RTAI ONLY active when G-Code start execute the CNC...
[08:57:36] <micges> ?
[08:57:39] <Fisia> and while that, stoping other unneccesary GUI /program that runing on backround... freeze them
[08:57:54] <Fisia> .
[08:57:55] <Fisia> .
[08:58:43] <Fisia> freeze them on a file of memmory-program-image
[08:59:40] <Fisia> (im trying to speed up EMC2... even EMC2 today are speed enough)
[09:00:18] <micges> why ?
[09:00:49] <micges> maybe you want faster preview not EMC ?
[09:05:08] <anonimasu> morning
[09:05:23] <micges> morning
[09:18:56] <archivist> logget_emcL bookmark
[09:19:03] <archivist> logget_emc: bookmark
[09:19:20] <archivist> logger_emc: bookmark
[09:19:20] <archivist> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-11-04.txt
[09:19:51] <Fisia> :>
[09:21:46] <izua> zomg we are beeing monitored :/
[09:25:25] <archivist> I saw my nick highlighted this morning
[09:25:26] <Fisia> :)
[09:34:39] <Fisia> must go now, have a nicest day to you all..
[09:34:42] <Fisia> :)
[09:58:50] <izua> so two ants were smoking pot, right? and along comes the elephant. and one of the ants goes like "hey dude, elephant, i bet you can't put your foot right over that breadcrumb over there". the elephant goes ahead and puts his feet over the breadcrumb.
[09:59:14] <izua> so the other ant goes like "hey dude, elephant, i bet you can't put that breadcrumb on your head". so the elephant puts the breadcrumb on his head.
[09:59:35] <izua> and the ants go "holy shit, that's one huge sandwich"
[10:09:42] <fragalot> :/
[10:14:07] <archivist> you cant eat an elephant... oh yes you can.... one bite at a time
[11:01:19] <Roguish_> Roguish_ is now known as Roguish
[11:14:54] <archivist> cradek, has your truetype tracer been built tested on 64bit ? ttt.c:206: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
[11:15:40] <anonimasu> hmm, does it break or just complain?
[11:15:46] <anonimasu> (warnings happen alot)
[11:16:13] <archivist> not gone any further yet
[11:17:04] <anonimasu> thoose warnings happen alot :)
[11:17:28] <archivist> * archivist hates warnings
[11:17:38] <archivist> but it runs :)
[11:18:30] <anonimasu> I wpolol
[11:19:17] <archivist> I like the "no need for fancy configure here" message
[11:21:58] <fragalot> if only everything worked without a "fancy configuration"
[12:55:28] <jepler> Tuning PID and FOPID Controllers using the Integral Time Absolute Error Criterion http://arxiv.org/abs/0811.0083
[12:56:36] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[12:56:54] <anonimasu> morning
[12:57:50] <piasdom> do ya'll know what font the menu uses in emc2 ?
[12:58:22] <piasdom> i still have no words,so i'm checking to see if the font is laded at all
[12:58:29] <piasdom> loaded
[13:37:48] <jepler> piasdom: it can vary by system. You can see what your system does by interactively running 'wish' and entering some commands, like so:
[13:37:51] <jepler> $ wish
[13:37:54] <jepler> % [menu .m] cget -font
[13:37:56] <jepler> -monotype-arial-medium-r-normal-*-12-*-*-*-p-*-iso8859-15
[13:38:22] <jepler> % exit
[13:38:43] <jepler> (don't type the $ or %, those represent the prompts of your shell and wish. don't type the third line, that's just the response the second line prints on my system)
[13:41:18] <jepler> ...hmmm though it looks like axis may override the standard font for menus, though it should be choosing the exact same font as for buttons...
[13:42:34] <jepler> while axis is running, you can open a terminal and see exactly what font it is using:
[13:42:37] <jepler> $ wish
[13:42:39] <jepler> % send axis .menu.file cget -font
[13:42:39] <jepler> helvetica -12
[13:44:18] <jepler> and while tkemc is running you can do something similar:
[13:44:19] <jepler> % send tkemc.tcl .top.menubar.file cget -font
[13:44:19] <jepler> -*-helvetica-bold-r-normal-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
[13:44:33] <jepler> bbl
[13:51:25] <piasdom> thanks
[13:51:46] <piasdom> jepler: i'll be working on this...Thanks
[13:57:43] <izua> is there a way to simulate what enc is doing?
[13:58:14] <izua> i want to learn more about the maths involved behind it (as to make my own cnc interface on dedicated hardware)
[13:58:30] <izua> but I need to see how stuff happens first..
[14:01:34] <izua> why i'm asking is that i don't have a physical cnc yet - parts are on their way
[14:02:54] <archivist> " make my own cnc interface on dedicated hardware" stepper, servo or what
[14:03:24] <izua> stepper at first
[14:03:44] <izua> although most drivers accept step/dir inputs for driving DC servos
[14:13:43] <piasdom> how do i install helvetica font ?.....that's why i don't have words in menu.
[14:18:28] <anonimasu> no, they dont
[14:21:33] <anonimasu> most servodrives accept a analog signal as input
[14:22:09] <fenn> on my system Helvetica comes from the htmldoc-common package, but i dont think this is required for AXIS
[14:23:10] <piasdom> wish says i'm using hel
[14:23:31] <piasdom> and it's not listed in my font in system
[14:30:08] <piasdom> or can i change the font emc uses ?
[15:00:45] <jepler> piasdom: I believe on my system that the helvetica font comes from the package xfonts-75dpi or xfonts-100dpi, a series of filenames with paths like /usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi/helvR12.pcf.gz
[15:01:26] <piasdom> jepler:i'll go look...brb
[15:01:53] <jepler> all ubuntu systems should have that package: x-window-system-core depends on it
[15:03:28] <jepler> izua: yes, you can install emc on systems without a realtime kernel (use ./configure --enable-simulator --enable-run-in-place) and then use configurations like sim/axis.ini or modify a stepper configuration to not actually output anything to the parport
[15:04:42] <jepler> when you do this, you can view the step pulses emc generates inside "halscope". here's halscope showing a single step pulse: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/halscope-stepping-left.png
[15:04:54] <jepler> piasdom: this is some non-ubuntu system you're using, right?
[15:05:11] <piasdom> ubuntu hardy
[15:05:16] <jepler> piasdom: hm
[15:05:31] <jepler> piasdom: configured for english or for another language?
[15:06:00] <piasdom> jepler:english
[15:06:39] <jepler> gnome desktop?
[15:06:42] <piasdom> jepler:can i change the font in emc ?
[15:06:51] <piasdom> jepler:don't think so
[15:07:04] <jepler> kde? xfce?
[15:07:24] <piasdom> jepler:kde
[15:07:26] <archivist> is it a colour choice hiding the writing
[15:07:46] <piasdom> jepler:not sure...i have a pic
[15:08:05] <jepler> archivist: I don't *think* so, because piasdom showed a screenshot where the underline for the accelerator key is visible, but no letters are.
[15:09:03] <archivist> just trying to think of any possibility
[15:09:17] <piasdom> jepler:http://imagebin.org/30343
[15:09:25] <jepler> piasdom: tkemc and axis are both based around the Tk gui toolkit. both are configurable through the "X Resource Database", but I don't know of a good reference for it -- most new GUI toolkits ignore the X Resource Database, so everyone's forgotten how it works. http://wiki.tcl.tk/1727 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_axis.html#r1_11_2
[15:10:59] <jepler> piasdom: did you install from the .iso file from linuxcnc.org?
[15:11:23] <jepler> (that looks like the gnome desktop, just judging from the way the title bar looks)
[15:11:49] <piasdom> jepler:yes....ubuntu 8.10emc2
[15:11:55] <jepler> 8.06
[15:11:57] <jepler> ?
[15:12:09] <archivist> 8.1 ?
[15:12:29] <piasdom> jepler:was a bdi for emc2
[15:13:03] <piasdom> jepler:want a shot of my desktop ?
[15:15:56] <jepler> do you still have the live cd? can you boot from it and see whether the problem exists there too?
[15:16:16] <piasdom> jepler:i can...brb
[15:23:20] <piasdom> jepler:i get i/o error not able to read boot disk
[15:23:50] <piasdom> jepler:i may have updated by apt-get
[15:24:31] <piasdom> jepler:i did
[15:25:10] <piasdom> jepler:downloaded ubuntu but installed by apt-get ...thinking about it
[15:26:24] <jepler> piasdom: you mean you used the install disk from ubuntu.com and added emc after installation?
[15:28:16] <piasdom> jepler:no...emc was there...thought it update to emc2
[15:29:16] <piasdom> jepler:i used the ubuntu link for emc...it had emc2 in the link
[15:29:44] <jepler> ok, but today that same CD doesn't work so you can't test what I asked..
[15:30:11] <piasdom> jepler:i get that error....never used the disk til today
[15:30:27] <piasdom> i have to getit again i guess
[15:30:41] <jepler> I am very confused. if you didn't install the operating system from the cd, how did you install it?
[15:30:59] <archivist> how did you install ubuntu and what version is it now
[15:31:14] <piasdom> jepler:i used apt-get upgrade
[15:31:25] <jepler> what did you have before you used "apt-get upgrade"? Did you have Ubuntu?
[15:31:34] <piasdom> archivist:8.10 hardy
[15:31:52] <archivist> 8.1 does not work properly
[15:31:52] <cradek> 8.10 is not hardy
[15:32:34] <piasdom> jepler:wait.......thinking...
[15:33:28] <piasdom> jepler:just noticed...it is gnome
[15:34:13] <piasdom> jepler:i "HAD" to use the disk....because it had debian
[15:35:02] <piasdom> and it is 8.04....sorry
[15:35:38] <piasdom> don't know why the disk won't work now
[15:36:38] <jepler> did the menus ever work right, or was it broken like this from the very first time after you installed?
[15:36:45] <piasdom> and this is gnome 2.22.3
[15:37:31] <piasdom> jepler:all work great til after the install...emc2 works...not i have to remember what the line are :)
[15:37:44] <piasdom> not = now
[15:37:56] <jepler> so at one time it did work?
[15:38:29] <piasdom> jepler:yes sir
[15:39:12] <piasdom> jepler:i had to configure emc2 to get it to work..(used stepconf)
[15:40:21] <jepler> when was the last time that the font ever showed correctly?
[15:40:50] <piasdom> jepler:before installation of ubuntu
[15:41:48] <SWPadnos> ?
[15:41:49] <archivist> ? did you load emc before ubuntu
[15:42:20] <cradek> piasdom: I'm having trouble following the questions and answers. can you start at the beginning, tell us exactly what you did, and when the problem started?
[15:43:27] <piasdom> jepler:i install ubuntu (having debian) by the disk...words never showed in ubuntu......
[15:44:06] <piasdom> jepler:emc(not 2) worked form manufactures disk(debian)
[15:44:44] <SWPadnos> you said BDI earlier. did you install from a Sherline BDI disc, then install EMC2 on that?
[15:44:49] <piasdom> jepler:emc2 work(no words) but i need to configure(stepconf)
[15:45:21] <piasdom> SWPadnoc:correct....formating the entire drive
[15:46:00] <piasdom> jepler:now emc2 works great...just no words
[15:46:54] <piasdom> i have to remember first line is open...second is save...so on :)...i pain,but it works :) :)
[15:47:12] <SWPadnos> ok, sorry to interrupt. so you had BDI installed, burned the Ubuntu LiveCD from the LinuxCNC.org site, and installed from that (destroying the BDI install in the process)?
[15:47:31] <piasdom> SWPadnoc:yes sir
[15:47:58] <SWPadnos> so this is essentially a fresh EMC2/Ubuntu install
[15:48:07] <SWPadnos> from the Linuxcnc.org ISO
[15:48:12] <piasdom> but the installation came with emc2...or i wouldn't be able to install it
[15:48:37] <piasdom> SWPadnoc:yes sir.......entirely
[15:49:13] <piasdom> NEVER want to go back to debian
[15:49:34] <SWPadnos> so if you copy your machine config to a USB stick or floppy, there's nothing on this hard disk you need to save, and you can do a fresh install, right? :)
[15:49:44] <piasdom> unless emc3 does :)
[15:49:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:50:12] <piasdom> SWPadnoc:yes sir...i have everything backedup
[15:51:02] <jepler> SWPadnos: except his cd broke or something
[15:51:08] <SWPadnos> yes, CD or drive
[15:51:49] <SWPadnos> if you get read errors when trying to boot off the CD, you should try booting another machine with it or burn another CD
[15:52:13] <tomp> has anyone installed ubuntu 8.04/emc under windows? i just was ready to wipe a gateway and saw the cd had a 'wubi'
[15:52:22] <SWPadnos> not here
[15:52:27] <jepler> not me
[15:52:39] <tomp> ok, new adventure
[15:52:51] <SWPadnos> godspeed, tomp
[15:53:02] <tomp> glub glub glub...
[15:53:38] <izua> is it possible to burn a cd image on a dvd?
[15:53:50] <piasdom> i'll get another download
[15:53:52] <izua> i haven't seen blank cds around for a while
[15:54:10] <SWPadnos> izua, I don't think so, the media descriptor is different
[15:54:34] <archivist> CD's still in supermarkets here
[15:54:37] <izua> would mounting it in a virtual drive and copying everything would work?
[15:54:42] <izua> i'm talking about emc over ubuntu here
[15:55:11] <SWPadnos> you can copy all the files, but I think you'd need a different boot image
[15:55:25] <piasdom> downloading now
[15:55:31] <izua> what about doing a copy cd?
[15:55:34] <izua> and copying it on a dvd?
[15:55:43] <SWPadnos> see if your software will do that :)
[15:55:44] <izua> (copying it from a mounted iso)
[15:56:01] <izua> meh, no.
[15:56:03] <izua> it expects a CD
[15:56:06] <jepler> the ubuntu page on burning the bootable iso says you need a "700MB CD" and doesn't suggest using a DVD. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
[15:56:10] <izua> who the hell uses CDs anymore? :/
[15:56:42] <archivist> me
[15:56:50] <BigJohnT> me
[15:57:01] <izua> it was a rhethorical question
[15:57:13] <jepler> only use I have for CDs is to install operating systems
[15:57:23] <jepler> I hope they don't go to DVDs anytime soon
[15:57:26] <tomp> it was a suppository question ;)
[15:57:49] <izua> lol
[15:58:13] <BigJohnT> time to start drinking I think
[15:58:43] <archivist> bit early!
[15:58:52] <tomp> speaking of which.. wubi puked at 585 meg due to bad cd
[15:59:02] <jepler> tomp: that was fast!
[15:59:02] <piasdom> me
[15:59:19] <tomp> new fancy laptop on sale at tiger
[16:02:35] <jepler> bbl
[16:03:41] <SWPadnos> there's one at NewEgg too, 3GB, 2GHz Turion X2, 15" screen, 250GB HD, $549
[16:05:08] <skunkworks> I would guess - now would be the time to buy a laptop
[16:05:16] <archivist> * archivist grumbles about not having spare pennies
[16:05:42] <archivist> now is the time to buy any discounted toy!
[16:06:17] <SWPadnos> almost
[16:06:47] <SWPadnos> Christmas sales combined with overstocking should make prices bottom out in the December/january timeframe
[16:07:10] <skunkworks> hmm - I can wait. :)
[16:07:19] <SWPadnos> for things like HDTVs in the US, the demand will go up in January/February as broadcasters turn off analog boradcasts
[16:07:25] <archivist> milling machine prices seem ok on fleabay
[16:07:31] <tomp> well my hp with external 110 ac fan (internal dead), external kbd(missing a few rows), bad cdrw and general old age, 'prompted' me to upgrade.
[16:07:42] <SWPadnos> that will probably combine with reduced supply since manufacturers will have been able to scale back production by then, so prices should go up again
[16:08:30] <izua> christmas economics?
[16:09:07] <SWPadnos> economic downturn christmas :)
[16:09:54] <tomp> i left taiwan a week agao, the factory owner was asked about his son at ucla , he replied "he is very good for the american economy" :) (he spends lotsa money here)
[16:21:20] <anonimasu> lol
[16:39:05] <tomp> hmm, wubi didnt work, but had another non emc ubuntu 8.04, so booted that. it got to 'prepare disk space|guided|resizing partition... now at 0% for too long :( "Please Wait" a favorite w$ phrase.
[17:08:07] <tomp> ooh, 1/2 hour later i see it is al done partitioning. great
[17:29:39] <tomp-road> cool, laptop now has ubuntu 8 with emc, upgrades ho!
[17:34:19] <BigJohnT> how is the latency on the laptop tomp-road ?
[17:38:35] <tomp-road> realtime delays right away :( but its not meant for control anywho
[17:38:53] <tomp-road> bye for now ... is vista still there?
[17:50:07] <tom1> yes, the standard installer left vista, resized it from 120G to 30, and installed Ubuntu 8.04 with emc, no problems. inet automatic ok, but desktop slightly odd, wider than top & bottom bars, yet all realestate usable.
[17:52:03] <tom1> maxin a window fills the area between the bars, but the window can be manipulated to real fullscreen. it is ubuntu/xorg that has odd idea of what 'full' means.
[18:55:31] <tomp> err during emc build with --enable-build-documentation "configure: error: no convert, documentaion cannot be built". where is pkg 'convert' what else may be missing?
[18:57:10] <BigJohnT> imagemagik
[18:57:18] <BigJohnT> and ... let me think
[18:57:54] <BigJohnT> there is two more but they are not as much of a puzzle :)
[18:58:12] <BigJohnT> convert is part of imagemagik
[18:58:20] <BigJohnT> or is it imagemagic
[18:58:24] <alex_joni> imagemagick
[18:58:30] <tomp> dvipng & tetex-extras?
[18:58:30] <BigJohnT> thanks Alex
[18:58:42] <alex_joni> tomp: tetex-extra I think
[18:58:43] <tomp> thx alex
[18:59:06] <alex_joni> tomp: on hardy?
[18:59:20] <tomp> yep
[18:59:31] <alex_joni> just a hint: typing the not installed command usually makes the shell print a message with the package you need
[18:59:54] <tomp> i'll use the gui so i dont miss-spell (like that:)
[19:00:01] <alex_joni> so if you try to run "convert" from a terminal, it'll say "convert is not installed, get it by typing apt-get install imagemagick, or something like that)
[19:01:55] <tomp> ok, tetek brings in a load of files
[19:02:10] <tomp> files
[19:02:14] <SWPadnos> tetex-extra, not tetex
[19:02:32] <tomp> right
[19:02:40] <SWPadnos> that shouldn't bring in much
[19:03:13] <tomp> ill edit the web page while i wait ( tetex-extra.. 56 files)
[19:03:35] <SWPadnos> ouch. are you sure that's all due to tetex-extra?
[19:04:15] <BigJohnT> I had to get the dvipng but don't remember tetex...
[19:04:27] <BigJohnT> I just did this the other day :O
[19:04:37] <SWPadnos> imagemagick, tetex-extra, dvipng, and maybe ghostscript
[19:04:48] <SWPadnos> I wish I could find the file with the list I made ;)
[19:05:12] <BigJohnT> I have a list at home :) can I take the rest of the day off and go get it?
[19:05:35] <SWPadnos> sure. just tell your boss you're going to vote, and that the lines were so long you couldn't get back ;)
[19:08:18] <tom1> no biggee all dloade, and wiki lots it's 's' :)
[19:08:26] <tom1> lost
[19:09:16] <fragalot> lol SWPadnos
[19:10:30] <skunkworks> well - just don't forget to vote.. :)
[19:10:40] <skunkworks> you too fragalot.. ;)
[19:10:52] <SWPadnos> I was surprised at the lack of lines
[19:11:07] <SWPadnos> I walked to the polling place, voted, and walked back, all in less than 30 minutes
[19:11:13] <skunkworks> lots of early voting? (I hope)
[19:11:14] <SWPadnos> most of which was walking the 1.5 miles or so
[19:11:36] <SWPadnos> apparently it was pretty packed in the morning, btu I hit a lull (at 1:00 or so)
[19:11:49] <skunkworks> ah - everyone was eating.. :)
[19:11:52] <SWPadnos> there has been a lot of early voting
[19:12:08] <SWPadnos> I figured it would be a little crowded since it was the tail end of lunch hour
[19:12:11] <skunkworks> plus I bet after 4:30 or there abouts it will get busy again
[19:12:18] <SWPadnos> yes, I'm sure
[19:12:36] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is glad he lives in a very small town
[19:12:57] <SWPadnos> heh, me too (~8000 residents)
[19:13:13] <skunkworks> I think <2000
[19:13:48] <skunkworks> 1,459
[19:14:03] <skunkworks> I think this internet thing will catch on.
[19:14:39] <SWPadnos> 8591 in 2000
[19:14:51] <cradek> I waited in line behind two people at 8am - much longer wait than usual
[19:14:57] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:14:58] <cradek> it was probably over a minute
[19:14:59] <skunkworks> heh
[19:15:23] <SWPadnos> instead of the usual two lines (A-M and N-Z), they had 5 or 6
[19:15:27] <skunkworks> for the primaries I had to register and then stand in a little line.. so maybe 15mins or so.
[19:15:50] <SWPadnos> there aren't many people with last names beginning with "U-Z", so I was in immediately
[19:16:48] <jepler> erp, what name are you voting under?
[19:16:50] <tom1> U<=P<=Z ?
[19:17:04] <SWPadnos> my last name is "Wille Padnos" (2 words, no hyphen)
[19:17:18] <jepler> I see
[19:17:22] <skunkworks> oh - wow. I didn't know that.
[19:17:28] <skunkworks> I thought your last name was padnos
[19:17:32] <jepler> so when I call you "Stevie Boy Padnos" I'm not using the right name?
[19:17:34] <SWPadnos> there was no line at the P desk either, so it wouldn't matter :)
[19:17:39] <SWPadnos> it's close
[19:18:04] <SWPadnos> my last name was Padnos, then I got married and we both changed our names
[19:18:15] <skunkworks> You must have some interesting govermental problems with that name.
[19:18:18] <cradek> hippies
[19:18:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:18:27] <skunkworks> ah - cool
[19:18:31] <tom1> good security
[19:18:48] <cradek> you should have mingled the letters: pwaidlnloes
[19:18:52] <skunkworks> My wife didn't change her name..
[19:19:02] <SWPadnos> we sometimes have to use a hyphen, but it's usually OK with spaces
[19:19:24] <SWPadnos> in the state with the Von Trapp family, you'd think they would have worked that stuff out
[19:19:32] <skunkworks> heh
[19:19:39] <tom1> my company name starts with a lower case letter, followed by caps tAG, its hell to get any form to accept it
[19:19:49] <skunkworks> I don't know if we actually ever talked about using both last names.
[19:19:53] <skunkworks> that is interesting.
[19:19:59] <SWPadnos> or OpenOffice with autocorrect turned on
[19:20:16] <tom1> 'they' know better
[19:20:30] <SWPadnos> it seemed fair for both or neither of us to change
[19:20:44] <skunkworks> yah - that is where we are at.
[19:20:48] <tom1> argh need groff too
[19:20:58] <SWPadnos> my mother is fond of pointing out that the only times peoples names get changed are for slavery and marriage ;)
[19:21:06] <skunkworks> heh
[19:21:08] <SWPadnos> (unless they just feel like it)
[19:21:26] <skunkworks> our mail box looks like a ransom note.
[19:22:35] <tom1> adding groff to wiki page
[19:31:59] <cradek> Obama (D) - 0 votes McCain (R) - 0 votes 270 electoral votes needed to win, 538 undecided
[19:32:04] <cradek> refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh
[19:32:07] <skunkworks> heh
[19:32:22] <skunkworks> so - I am not the only one that has election OCD?
[19:32:32] <SWPadnos> I think the pollsters agreed that they'd hold onto any results until mid or late afternoon
[19:32:42] <skunkworks> yes - as they should.
[19:32:47] <SWPadnos> but you may be able to find up-to-the-minute "news" on Fox anyway
[19:32:52] <skunkworks> but you know things will leak
[19:34:01] <SWPadnos> they probably will, but interestingly, the big TV networks all decided to pool their polling dollars, and the people who are allowed to look at the numbers have no connection to the outside world - no phones or internet access
[19:34:17] <skunkworks> I read about that.
[19:34:51] <skunkworks> it is going to be one heck of a day
[19:34:59] <jepler> as though the intrade prediction market will know before anyone else, I made a little program that polls them for data (state by state prediction information), chomps on it a bit, and puts it on a webpage every few minutes: http://unpy.net/intrade.txt
[19:35:14] <SWPadnos> cool
[19:35:17] <skunkworks> neat
[19:35:20] <jepler> I have to confess I'm watching it, despite my suspicion that it's predictive of anything
[19:35:57] <SWPadnos> well, I hope it's right
[19:36:29] <SWPadnos> unless I don't understand what it's saying
[19:36:35] <jepler> hah
[19:36:42] <skunkworks> :)
[19:39:01] <skunkworks> I think I was so excited this morning - I forgot to put on deodorant.
[19:39:19] <SWPadnos> luckily I live far enough away that it doesn't matter to me
[19:39:37] <jepler> a bit of an explanation of the stuff on that page: http://emergent.unpy.net/01225758203
[19:39:39] <skunkworks> you don't know me that well..
[19:40:20] <jepler> if it doesn't crash your firefox3, here's another neat page that uses intrade data: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/election/election.xul
[20:00:29] <piasdom> when i restart..i get "make sure message bus is running." what is this ?
[20:01:03] <alex_joni> sounds like a gnome problem
[20:01:35] <SWPadnos> it probably says something about DBus and gnome-settings isn't running (or similar)
[20:02:00] <SWPadnos> I've seen something like that before, btu I don't know what causes it. it usually goes away if I reboot
[20:02:24] <alex_joni> probably some component failed to start fast enough :)
[20:05:57] <SWPadnos> I think I've discovered that it's bad to be near a jar of jelly beans when you're hungry
[20:06:00] <SWPadnos> a big jar
[20:08:29] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: how about jad ?
[20:08:43] <SWPadnos> I have no idea
[20:08:59] <alex_joni> jad's are jar's for mobiles
[20:09:19] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[20:09:24] <jepler> I wish I had any idea what alex_joni is talking about, but his english is just terrible
[20:09:29] <SWPadnos> I thought it might have a vaguely java-related aspect
[20:09:35] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.jad
[20:09:52] <alex_joni> jepler: no need to be rough with the linguistically-challenged
[20:11:05] <acemi> sorun ne
[20:11:57] <alex_joni> acemi: that sounds like turkish to me :)
[20:12:16] <acemi> :) wrong channel
[20:12:56] <alex_joni> jepler: doesn't >99% make it kinda obvious on the outcome?
[20:14:13] <piasdom> soory had to walk away.......i does that every time i reboot
[20:14:27] <piasdom> but i'm ggoing to try a new install
[20:14:54] <piasdom> go the new download burned
[20:14:59] <jepler> alex_joni: that's how the math on the state-by-state predictions works out (assuming they are independent chancces, 99.66% that the electoral vote goes to O)
[20:15:19] <jepler> piasdom: try running emc from the live cd before installing and see if the fonts show up..
[20:15:29] <jepler> if not it means that a reinstall isn't the fix
[20:15:32] <piasdom> jepler:ok
[20:15:39] <piasdom> brb
[20:15:49] <alex_joni> bbl
[20:31:57] <piasdom> jepler:everything works
[21:12:15] <jymm> SWPadnos: If the video in a laptop was defective or going out, is it posisble to see the defective in a ScrnCapture?
[21:13:00] <anonimasu> hno
[21:13:51] <archivist> jymm if it has a web cam it can capture the defective using it
[21:20:44] <skunkworks> the laptop screen is what we like to call 'open loop' ;)
[21:29:27] <piasdom> brb
[21:46:28] <skunkworks> boy - news black hole today.
[21:47:05] <skunkworks> feel a bit out of the loop
[21:47:10] <gezar> howdy yall
[21:47:43] <skunkworks> hello
[21:48:47] <gezar> im going to be showing emc to a fellow student this evening, fun stuff
[21:49:09] <skunkworks> Nice.
[21:49:57] <gezar> Ill probably have to boot from a live disk, I dont currently have an install, I dont have any time to work on emc though, too much getting used to school still
[21:51:06] <skunkworks> the livecd should give them a good idea of how things work
[21:52:05] <archivist> and a few youtube vids maybe
[21:52:41] <gezar> they dont have a machine, but ill give him a stepper driver to play with, he has a few steppers from some things he has taken apart to piddle with
[21:52:58] <piasdom> gezar:will it be connected to a machine ?
[21:53:12] <gezar> no machine, at least not at this point, who knows what he will do
[21:53:22] <piasdom> like watching utube vids of emc2
[21:53:27] <gezar> hell, I owe someone in here a beer, I have not been able to finish my mini mill
[21:53:34] <izua> that's like taking a kid to a toy store to _show_ him the toys
[21:53:42] <piasdom> gezar:i meant your demo
[21:54:05] <gezar> piasdom : I have a single axis set up sort of,
[21:54:11] <piasdom> cool
[21:54:31] <gezar> I havent done what I should have with emc for a very long time, motovation and mental state...
[21:55:20] <gezar> I think this guy is smart enough to run with it, I think he knows python pretty good too, were in compsci 2 together
[21:56:25] <piasdom> gezar: good luck( on demo and comp sci)
[21:56:45] <gezar> its good, and thanks, im having the most fun in assembly
[21:57:00] <piasdom> g'nite all....bbl
[21:57:05] <gezar> night, take care
[22:07:32] <jepler> huh, this "fopid" thing sounds interesting. I wonder if it is applicable to motion control. fopid adds two more tunable parameters, namely the order (exponent) of the I and D terms. In some made-up systems they look at, it gives much better response than PID.
[22:08:00] <jepler> there are several papers about this on arxiv today, all seem to have Deepyaman Maiti as the head author. this one gives an overview: http://arxiv.org/abs/0810.3776
[22:08:43] <cradek> if only there was a modular motion control system where you could try it
[22:08:48] <jepler> indeed!
[22:09:59] <skunkworks> Particle Swarm Optimization? Now they are just making stuff up.
[22:10:12] <jepler> skunkworks: I know how you feel
[22:10:34] <SWPadnos> suboptimal particle storms suck
[22:10:34] <anonimasu> skunkworks: they do that alot
[22:11:59] <skunkworks> anonimasu: are you sick of hearing about the US elections?
[22:12:38] <jymm> cradek: MACH can do it!
[22:13:06] <archivist> I used to get IEEE transaction and the titles do seem to have a certain amount of bs on them
[22:13:26] <jymm> bs from phD's
[22:13:46] <archivist> provable bs
[22:14:09] <archivist> or claimed at least
[22:16:22] <fenn> jepler: how long did it take to write that script?
[22:17:27] <jepler> fenn: well, I started with the one from xkcd.com/intrade, which does the "heavy" statistics lifting
[22:17:39] <jepler> I probably spent two hours or more on it though, before it did what I wanted
[22:18:57] <jepler> .. getting the data from intrade through their API instead of by parsing html pages wsa the biggest item. the rest of the time was figuring out what info I wanted to see
[22:20:46] <anonimasu> no, im not too tired
[22:21:40] <anonimasu> :)
[22:21:48] <anonimasu> I've managed to miss all news about the election
[22:22:09] <alex_joni> http://www.codeweavers.com/services/ports/chromium/
[22:28:50] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:59:26] <izua> hi.
[22:59:40] <izua> i'm still working at understanding the math behind "blending" accs/decs between succesive lines
[22:59:47] <izua> is someone kind enough to explain that to me?
[23:00:11] <izua> (i'm trying to make my own CNC interface, similar to EMC, but on its dedicated hardware)
[23:00:46] <izua> let's say we have three cases, in each, there are two lines.
[23:01:10] <archivist> see trajectory planner on wiki
[23:02:55] <jepler> izua: conceptually, divide each move into three phases: accelerate, cruise (possibly empty), decelerate. To blend between move P and move Q, overlap the decel phase of P and the accel phase of Q (but never overlap an accel/decel with a cruise).
[23:02:57] <izua> I've read that yesterday
[23:03:06] <izua> i think that goes for only one axis
[23:03:30] <jepler> either overlap "as much as possible" (emc in G64 mode) or "after reaching tolerance from the shared enpoint of P and Q" (emc in G64 P- mode)
[23:03:30] <izua> yes
[23:03:41] <izua> that works great in theory :)
[23:03:48] <izua> but there is no overlap function in C, for what I'm doing
[23:04:06] <izua> that's why I'm asking about some maths involved
[23:04:21] <izua> the velocity planner is great, but it's only for one axis there
[23:04:47] <izua> I don't think it will work if adapted as two copies of that code, for 2 axes
[23:04:56] <archivist> no its going around corners
[23:05:00] <izua> i think the planner will have to take into account both velocities
[23:05:11] <jepler> izua: well, yes and no
[23:05:15] <izua> i _think_ . let me know if i'm wrong
[23:05:34] <jepler> say you are moving from XY=0,0 to XY=1,2
[23:05:50] <izua> right
[23:06:00] <jepler> the length of that move is sqrt(1*1 + 2*2) = sqrt(5) ~ 2.236
[23:06:17] <jepler> use the trapezoidal motion planner for a move of length 2.236 without regard to its direction
[23:06:33] <izua> so a % of that move will be acc
[23:06:36] <izua> a % dec
[23:06:49] <izua> and some, maybe none of it (depending on settings) cruise
[23:06:57] <jepler> now, for each unit distance you move along that line (a line without orientation), you'll move 1/2.236 in X and 2/2.236 in Y
[23:07:38] <izua> right. and that gives both my angle and constant composite (X+Y) speed
[23:09:20] <izua> ok, I think I'm a little too eager to do this, so I have a lot of questions and stuff I don't really understand :) so do let me know if I'm stepping on your nerves
[23:10:49] <izua> for example, there's one thing I don't understand from that wiki document
[23:11:07] <jepler> ask quick and I'll try to answer
[23:11:24] <izua> we have trapezoidal motion, we accelerate at a given ramp, and then keep the speed constant. if we can't, we'll simply accelerate as much as we can, and then deccelerate
[23:11:24] <jepler> .. but after that I'm going to get out of the office and away from irc for awhile
[23:11:30] <izua> (triangular motion)
[23:11:46] <izua> why do the graphs have variable cruise speeds?
[23:12:11] <izua> is that the result of something i'm not understanding?
[23:12:30] <izua> i think that with a trapezoidal profile, speed always tends to reach max
[23:12:34] <jepler> which graph? do you mean "vsuggest" of the first figure on Simple_TP_Notes ?
[23:13:33] <izua> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Trapezoidal_Velocity_Profile_Trajectory_Planner , trap1
[23:14:28] <jepler> hm I'm not familiar with the material on that page
[23:14:29] <izua> ah no, that one is fine :)
[23:14:40] <izua> but it only show what happens for a single line
[23:14:44] <jepler> if I had to guess, that graph is showing the one-axis velocity
[23:15:05] <jepler> (I say that because I notice it is negative on the top graph when the bottom graph is going down)
[23:15:13] <izua> yes. but it has 2 cruise speeds above 0, and 2 under 0
[23:15:38] <izua> i don't see how that is possible with trapezoidal motion
[23:15:51] <izua> ah well
[23:16:16] <izua> nvm, i'll keep reading and researching :) thanks, and have fun outside your office :P
[23:16:20] <jepler> think about a move in the direction (1,2) vs a move in the direction (2,1)
[23:17:01] <jepler> at a given feed rate
[23:17:19] <jepler> the velocity in X will be different between the two moves
[23:17:28] <jepler> even though the velocity in XY will be the same
[23:17:31] <archivist> "A coordinated set of these parameterized points can be one for multi-axis motion. " perhaps rewrite that line one day
[23:18:21] <izua> ah yes, that makes sense now
[23:18:39] <jepler> bbl, I can't stand the office anymore
[23:19:24] <izua> thanks!
[23:26:59] <izua> what hapens in exact path mode (G61) if two segments aren't exactly 180 degrees apart (second doesn't point in the direction of first), but very little off? say, like.. 175 deg
[23:27:16] <izua> does the speed drop to 0 and then restarts?
[23:33:59] <toastydeath> yes.