get some SUNchips on the way to his place... make sure they are the ones in the foil type bag... cut the bag up AFTER eating the chips... into strips of .0005" shim... and wrap the encoder shaft till its snug in the coupler
heh noo cnc make the right size hole!
if you can make a hole smaller on a cnc i'd like to hear..
he is about to make more, small mod to prog
although i do it every day in 7075 forgings.... i DONT control it
heat treat and plating are still WITCHCRAFT as far as im corncerned.... i send in good parts and get scrap back
I did anodising many years ago, that has a reasonably defined growth, but easy to get wrong if over etched first :)
any one want a Martin BackPacker guitar.... i'm setting up a bulk buy... should be about 240 USD each...
ARCh... IS it a growth.. or not.. ive always seen that.. but have been told anodizing is 0 growth process
because of the etch first
i know if i remove the anodize.. all bores are .002-.003 o/s
evil sulphuric and caustic baths used with amps
not always... but then again did they ge all the anodize.. or overdoo it
no.. always reverse polarity strip
trying to think how long since I worked at the anodising company, 35 years ish
wow.. them were the BAD old days for sure.... 5 s in caustic would strip anodizing AND base aluminum..... UNCONTROLLABLY for sure
i had a dash 8 yoke... that was finish bored and anodized prior to shotpeen...
its a wishbone lookin' part that moves and warp in the s/p process
i stripped it and attended the stripping...
then the shot peening
do it here a little... more...
and saved a 28k part...
I did 'cvs up' to the cinci today. It gives me an error 'waiting for s.axis' and doesn't start. I can post more tomorrow if someone doesn't have a recommendation this evening.
it was my 1'st and ( knock on wood) my last true FUBAR ( recovered)
stustev: cradek says that if you didn't update in the last half hour, update again
stustev: a problem was introduced in pid, and then half-fixed, and now maybe it's all fixed
will do so first thing in the morning - thanks
if it still doesn't work, we probably need a pastebin of your dmesg
ls: .: Permission Denied
sudo -u root ls
dash: sudo: command not found
su -c ls
dash: it is dark in here: you are likely to be eaten by a grue
what's a grue?
a child! we have a child among us
[02:32:02] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grue_(monster)
or maybe I should have answered: dash: unmatched '.
* jepler can't decide; it's soooo hard being clever on irc
(darn, it looks like sometime in the last 20 years they killed that joke; in this telling, it's a joke about President Reagan: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/unix.htm)
meh, closing )
$ar m God
ar: creating God
well I see unix has gotten more powerful over the last 20 years
you're in a jolly mood tonight
yay, knobs are done
* archivist goes Salome hunting
SALOME-MECA-2008.1-GPL wow 351 MB
how can we not hear of something and its grown to that size
lerman______ is now known as lerman
archivist: got any ideas how to use salome?
none /me playing and trying to do the day job
salome is awesomely complex compared to like algor fempro :/
I do a bit of fem at work(mostly throwing parts that we'll cut into it to see how the radius:es distrubutes stresses)
archivist: gear cutting?
* archivist will read later
it's not much amazing stuff there
the biggest issue with FEA is estimating loads anway :p
guesstimating ;) and making realistic constraints
my guestimat needs: the cutting forces are on the average bridgeport and smaller mill is with an up to 1" cutter , thinking of forces in a trunnion against the worm/wheel and its anti backlash supports
hm, that's tricky to simulate as it's multibody physics
just need a guess to size the internal bearings
hehh yeah we have reason to moan, this damn weather!!
pjm__, did you see that 1960 cnc microwave I linked in here last night
ah no, do u have the link again
i got back from the US yesterday so had a lot of sleep to try to resync with GMT
cnc circa 1960 http://www.archivist.info/collection/showresult.php?srcdata=title&srcprog=searchv10.php&searchv4page=1&errlev=0&searchstr=BK410&srcdata=subj&Type=BK&Accn_no=410&srcprog=searchv10.php&dir=&file=plate28s.jpg&subject=2844
ignore subjects at bottom
circulator or ratrace
ah yes nice
archivist: isnt there cutting force data avaiable for a 1" cutter?
like how many kw a 1x1" cut will take in steel/iron
i picked up an mpg pendant from cnc4pc whilst in the US, i should have got one years ago!!! dunno how i made do with out one
at a certain speed
and out of kw and rpm you can calculate the torque
anonimasu, I have the Cincinati bible at home, but its a bit out of date
I dont think thoose change alot :)
I suppose that should be near enough
use dormer's tool specifications or something..
let me get you a kw estimate for a 1" tool 1" deep
went and got steel for the trunnion this morning so will start real cutting t the weekend
5.7kw for a 1" deep cut with a 1" endmill
1" 1" deep will probably be very top end
whats the load newtons
I dont know how to calc that right now
[11:23:16] <anonimasu> http://www.wisc-online.com/objects/index_tj.asp?objID=ENG17504
nor me (/me pretends to work for a bit)
[11:26:58] <anonimasu> http://www.wentec.com/unipower/calculators/power_torque.asp
Torque (N.m) = 9.5488 x Power (kW) / Speed (RPM)
hmm my taper rollers handle 80Kn 45mm id 75 od, good start
[11:29:40] <anonimasu> http://books.google.se/books?id=1X2IkQ56Z0EC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=cutting+force+in+newton+meters&source=bl&ots=juqDIuC-PV&sig=1fuFINy31ng9GMBI-G_0xtl9g_k&hl=sv&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
that book's probably what you want to look alot in :)
looks like it thanks
im interested in the engineering
getting the backlash removed safely and being rigid enough are going to be fun (at the right price as well)
hard to combine :)
rotation speed will be bottom of the decision pile
* anonimasu nods
it dosent matter if you cant keep it stiff enough anyway
also build and test stiffness and then spec peak load (cop out)
or other method :)
ah I see
cutting forces could push against the anti backlash worm wheel engagement spring, hence likely the upper limit
you need a insane spring :p
if you account for leverage
is there a recirculating ball worm and wheel (contemplates steering boxes of old)
I have no idae
large spring means wear and accuracy loss in a short time
then you need better gears..
archivist: ball worm: yes, but they are only used in specialized equip. and thus are ridiculously expensive
hm, what about having two wheels on the same worm..
and change contact angle so its harder to push out
that you can offset to take up backslash
catch what im thinking?
fenn and probably the reason all trunnions are insane prices
archivist: check out cycloidal drive
it's "just" a fancy cam and some rollers...
dunno how to maintain a dual drive backlash without intervention
keep precision below elastic deflection in your mechanism :)
easy to say hard to do
and at the right price
[11:49:03] <anonimasu> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6948402/description.html
[11:50:14] <anonimasu> http://www.darali.com/page17.html
<- that's what im looking for
plausible but /me cant afford to fight patents
there isnt a single patent for the drive's I think
but a patent on the drive on a rotary gets in the way
I hate patent
bah.. add another support bearing and you are home free
sell a motor + gearbox option on the side.. not couple to the table on sale..
may have two motor options, but my current thinking is its well inside the box (to enable rotation)
archivist: well, you have issues with the drive..
read that patentstorm page..
before you say anthing about patents..
torsion springs are also patented
and special tooth profiles
they tend to patent all prior art and the kitchen sink and get away with it!!!
patent system is very broken at the moment
anti patent backlash!
ban all anti backlash patents!
[12:11:02] <Dallur> http://lumenlab.com/2008/10/pumpkin/
just made it to the front page of slashdot
[12:11:16] <Dallur> http://idle.slashdot.org/idle/08/10/30/0027211.shtml
To bad EMC isn't mentioned anywhere
yay image to gcode
i think ..LPT port is on the edge of extiction
but plug inIO ports are not
... and EMC2 gatta do something about that
are USB-to LPT can not do the job? lack of realtime...
latency in usb drivers
can we do just little hacking on Ordinnary Printer... today USB-printer doing good job these day, perhaps we can hack abit? maybe?
go read USB2 spec write a new driver
not a little hacking
(ok, USB-to-LPT not okey)
Card on inside Printer... have kindda Buffers... the card would do Dazzing-PC-to-USB-to-Cards stuff
stop dreaming, please read USB3 spec
... yes i ve BEEN read it... there is no REALTIME there ...it a Hi speed packet of data
thats the point, only packets
it would need internal and external buffers with the shortest packet time, and that will still be hard
but not impossible for stepper only IMO
... thats is why, i provoking Outside Realtime job for EMC2 ... :)
but i m alone is not possible...
im gathering all the info around...
please explain IMO..
in my opinion
:) i see
i ve been doing experiment lately ... controlling STEPPER to the edge of it Speed...
the prove is, when i push it too hard on speed, with they combination of step..
its get vibrate..
if i push it beyond limit of it speed, they go just Vibrate, not walkin, not runing
i slew it down, it vibrate, lossing its GRAP, sometimes lossing its steps
end up with lossing your Position address ...without encoder, it s bad
yes so run within stepper speeds or move to servo
i do this on Ordinary Printer Stepper
.... good point
also torque reduces with speed, never run at or near the limits with steppers
my experiment did that too
they goes lossing its grap..
... at the end, mesa rule...
but im curious about these LPT stuff, there is still PCI with 8255, can EMC2 do this?
PCI also on the edge... Laptop Today, dont have one of those
can mesa do something about Laptop
most dont use laptops, too many problems
please specify kind of the problem...
power saving effects realtime as well
powersaving can be deactivated... yes
not always in laptops
not always on desktops.
any else problems... beside that? (I Think Computer Today Trying to CUT mechanics creativity) :)
do we have a wiki page with all the repeat reasons for using X port and Y pc types
we need a bot !read reasons >-http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements
wiki s... this problem is not the first... men! wiki explain it very well
i must log off, have a nice-st days :)
* archivist has contemplated a !man bot but reading the man source to get urls is the fun part
archivist: agreeed, everyone asks the same things :/
I run the bot in #mysql
that's OK, for at least half the day you have me to paste wiki and doc URLs
we don't need a bot to tell people that the gcode reference is http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
that's what I'm for
you need to stay awake 24 hours
jepler: dont you ever get sick of always finding/typing url's ?
I mean even if you have a bookmark you still need to go and copy/paste them
only when I have to do it for the fourth time for the same person
we get a lot of that in #mysql
although its fun when users get self help and they dont realise
self-help from the bot?
a good number get fooled in #apache that way
brings new meaning to CNC tech support
they respond to free text and if well setup....
i thought paul_c was a bot first time he talked to me :)
one user in #electronics talks through his bot
speaking of him - He hasn't updated his site for quite a while
I tried to join the mailing list for his new cnc software project, but I never got e-mail that my subscription had been approved.
I have a question about this project
All the information I found is about the software...
What about the hardware ?
many options for hardware
emc supports a lot of different kinds of cnc machines, from step & direction desktop mills and lathes to analog input servo milling machines the size of a bus
[14:04:00] <anonimasu> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
build or buy?
I want to develop a CNC (I'm student in mechatronic engineering) myself
the first question you should put yourself is stepper or servo
emc2 uses different hardware to drive stepper and servo's
no, the first question is what do you want to accomplish with this machine
err.. right :)
how many axis, and function
No, the first question is how much can you spend on hardware =)
apparently we don't agree on the first question
the first question is "I have a question about this project". Oh, wait, that's a statement.
maybe Guest112 should ask the questions
we are a fun bunch arn't we?
yeah, but poor Guest112 is probably overwhelmed by now
alex_joni: S/He shouldn't be, all they have to do is answer the "first question"
Guest112: So, any questions?
I want to make a simple writing CNC (with a pencil)
ok, so probably not very robust
With a little power, not yet for milling or drilling etc...
do you plan to build the axes yourself?
For the axis (2) I will buy a kit
Guest112, some in here have developed their own machines some examples here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies
I will make all the electronic and the chassis
most frequently, hobbyists use stepper motors together with driver boards that take logic-level "step" and "direction" signals and actually run the motors using voltage and current appropriate to the motors. a "step and direction" driver board can be connected to the PC using the 25-pin parallel port.
boards based on the l297/l298 pair of chips are quite appropriate for small stepper motors and can be fabricated at home if you have the capability to etch and drill the board. There is a free-for-personal-use single-sided board design for those chips on this website: http://pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm
and a design in the chip app note
sometimes even the sample application found in the 297/298 pdf is enough
The uses of the kind of motors is not a problem... fo the moment
I would to know if I should take in consideration a communication protocol (for the hardware) used by the EMC software...
to communicate with the hardware machinery
a lot use the parallel port to control stepper systems
yes, you should
So, if I use stepper motors, must I program this port with software or does the EMC soft make it ?
EMC does the work
if your stepper motor driver takes "step & direction" logic-level inputs, then emc will work with it
here's another really nice guide to building a l297/298 drive: http://www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/Stepper_Motor_Driver_1_1
here is how emc works http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_user_intro.html#sec:How-EMC2-Works
almost as simple as download live CD , configure port with stepconf to your needs(pin use) , create gcode, use
For the moment, due to lack of information by myself, I wonder how the hardware will be drived...
So, I'm used to communicate using protocol...
this is more low-level than a serial protocol
Guest112: with stepper motors, the usual "protocol" is this thing called "step and direction" I keep referring to
[14:24:53] <archivist> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/stepper-drivers
Guest112: it is just two logic-level signals
Guest112: whenever there is a rising edge on the "step" signal, the motor turns by a fixed angle. If the "direction" signal is high, then it turns clockwise. otherwise, it turns counterclockwise.
EMC toggles the ports on the parallel port
good, it's so easy...
when the motor is hooked to a screw that converts circular motion into linear motion, you can calculate the number of "step" signals that will create a motion of 1mm
About the control of the machine.. does EMC software use like PID control of acceleration, speed or position etc...
for stepper motors, emc does not use pid
however, it does create a smooth motion which respects acceleration and velocity limits
Well, about steppers...
here are some good articles on stepper motors and driving them: http://us.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/1734.pdf http://www.solarbotics.net/library/pdflib/pdf/motorbas.pdf http://www.solarbotics.net/library/pdflib/pdf/drive.pdf
* fenn slips on a pile of links and falls..
you should be more careful fenn
Is there anyone in here that is very much into wood working ?
* alex_joni passes fenn some http://www.zibb.com/all/theme/p/Anti+Slip+Footwear
Kohlswa, I do a little clock case repair
I use a chain saw does that count?
Kohlswa: are you really from Niue ?
ok, well Im wondering what salad bowl sealer/finish contains.
my local paint dealer said it was just perafin
HEh, Les would know that =)
alex_joni, niue ?
no, south .se
Kohlswa, I just used a hard wax when I turned one at school
16:29 -!- Kohlswa [n=Kohlswa@host-85-30-152-188.sydskane.nu] has joined #emc
ah, I see that sites in sweden use it too..
my bad ;)
swedish seem to like .nu since it means now to them
[14:35:21] <BigJohnT> http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=19388
Kohlswa: here is one which says it is from beeswax: http://www.vtonly.com/k1009.htm
Thank you jepler !
I will read a little with all your links
See you soon !
i think i'd rather eat beeswax than paraffin
Guest112: come back anytime
"Meantime you can use just about any nut or seed-based oil for a salad bowl. Just keep reapplying til she won't soak up any more and let sit for a week or two."
"Organ oil make a product called Wood Wipe which is designed to be used on salad bowls, chopping boards and any eating implements. Doesn't go rancid like some oils can, lasts and smells ok. About $7.95 a 250ml bottle, lasts for ages and it works."
press hard while spinning the bowl with hard beeswax, you get a good finish
"smells ok" is kind of faint praise
from what i can remeber liquid paraffin dosent smell
it's a little like the big "EDIBLE" stamp that used to be on the oil used for cooking movie theater popcorn
I always figured that if they have to tell you, you're probably better off not eating it
jepler, got you email and will start working on it soon.
Kohlswa: cool, thanks
if i upgrade to 8.10, will it mess up my emc2 ?
i have 8.04
dunno that one...
cause i'n ot going thru that again :)
but thanks BigJohnT
6.06 to 8.04?
no...i have ubuntu 8.04 hardy
the new ubuntu 8.10 is out
intrepid i think
I would guess that it would scramble it up :)
intrepid ibex ...........not sure of name of release
then i'll stay where i am :)
8.04 is a long term release
this is a nromal release...support til 2010 i think
I would stay with 8.04 unless you wanted to do all the work to port emc to 8.10
more info here http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/810rc
that is awesome http://lumenlab.com/2008/10/pumpkin/
(stuart posted it on the email list)
jepler: cradek: 'cvs up' this morning fixed the cinci - thanks
re: HP E-PC , the tech manual http://bizsupport.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/lpv06987/lpv06987.pdf
no card slot, so its a stepper system solution
list of all manuals http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodClassId=-1&contentType=SupportManual&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=32384
tomp: or pico systems parport stuff
i have some thin clients sorta like that. there is a combined pci/isa riser slot on board
cradek: yay yay and yay
if we could only fix all the problems like that - a couple hours before you report them
I like to see problems - it means something is being done - development is good
nice pumpkin link! very neat.
jepler: so at least one person is using image2gcode...
cradek: huh, imagine that
I'm surprised the pumpkin is flat enough for that to work well
oh, there are tons of image2gcode users
alex_joni: we never hear any bug reports so either it is perfect or nobody is using it
or all the users died before reporting the deadly bugs
therefore, naturally, we assumed nobody is using it :-)
it's quite good it seems :)
people sometimes complain to each other it doesn't do this or that
but people come from a windows world
except on x64 machines, where the numarray library doesn't work
(unless that got fixed without me noticing)
they are not easy about reporting problems to the people that made the software
(stir stir). bbl :)
SWPadnos: no, it's still broken as far as I know
it's a bug in the ubuntu-provided packages, and I don't think it's on launchpad
where is that image to g-code in emc2 ?
piasdom: start sim/axis and load an image
[15:49:44] <jepler> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui_image-to-gcode.html
is only in axis ? not in mini ?
you can run it standalone I think
you would run it in the terminal: image-to-gcode myimage.png > mygcode.ngc
then load mygcode.ngc in mini
if you don't mind me asking, what is it you prefer about mini?
i can follow what it is doing and edit a file
in axis i have to open another editor
thanks for the answers
while i'm editing a file...all the commands are still there to stop it
having to have an editor open as well bugs me , I would like editing in axis jepler
that's one feature I remain steadfastly against
I feel that in-application text file editors are invariably substandard editors
you design emc2 jepler ?
it can be suited to the job in hand
what about katepart :)
i appreciate the time and effort you put into it...THANKS
jepler: hmm.. how about allowing an existing editor to be integrated into AXIS?
there is already editor integration (on the File menu)
your choice of editor
yes...but all i have to do in mini is right click and i'm there
window sizing and overlapping is the other reason
(however, I'm with jepler on this)
yes...not much room in axis
I'm glad there are other guis available for people who want different things
but you do give more then one version...mini..axis.....others....we can choose
what was the grrrr for....me ?
it means I have to scratch the itch if it gets bad
or a lot more people start nagging :)
archivist: time for a gtk+ gui?
machine gui with editor and wizards for the mach3 noobs
I'd love to see someone do "axis but in gtk+"; it would integrate much better onto the ubuntu desktop, and possibly have other benefits I haven't imagined yet
a bag full of bugs?
but that's a huge amount of work if the main payoff is "the buttons will be rounded just like the other applications"
you design emc2 also archivist ?
no just a user
but aim to help in here if I can
antialiased text would help it look less 'vintage'
ok, two advantages: rounded buttons and fuzzy text
so do i....in a few years....
but true, it's only look, not functionality
the only functionality bit that I'd like to see improved is to be able to drag the gcode view bigger/smaller and I recall that didn't work out when you tried to do it
yeah, gtk has "paned" widgets that actually work
my problem is python is very alien to me
there was some work on a Qt GUI lately
one with panes and all .. :)
is there a way to do an offset.......like...select a paragraph of codes and have something to offset a selected distant ?
you can put a g-code command to offset things
the offset is active until you remove it, or you place another offset
piasdom: the g10/g54 family and/or the g92 family
i'll have to look into that.
i usually write the code copy then paste lower and have to use a g-code editor i have to write the distant
bu th eeditor is win base and i have to reboot to getthere
to do the same movements but at different locations, you can use subroutines instead of cutting and pasting. here's a simple example that does 4 squares at different locations: http://pastebin.com/m62a2240
or use g5[4-9.3]
* fenn reads back
getting your head around subroutines is well worth while, I use them a lot for gears
this gets back to what I was saying about embedded editors being substandard editors. editors like emacs and vim are designed to allow customizations; someone familiar with customizing them *could* write "move all this gcode by X+2"; by contrast, mini's text editor is not designed to be customizable
I did a code writer first, but then its edit prog, it writes gcode file, you test, loop....
now i'm more lost....never saw "call" in codes :)
look at the O codes
it might be worth seeing if your windows-based editor runs in wine... -- https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine
i tried...didn't work
or i couldn't get it to work
wouldn't do the offset correctly
but i don't understand...what are the  for ?
 is for arithmetic. [#1+1] means "take the value stored at #1 and add 1 to it"
and g1 x[#1+1]
didn't know it could do that
in call,  goes around each argument. O100 call   means that #1 gets the value 0, and #2 gets the value 2.
values from where ?
here are some links into the docs about this: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:Number http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#cha:O-Codes
in the case of a subroutine, #1 gets the first parameter, #2 gets the second one, and so forth
in other cases, you create values by assigning them, like so: #100 = 1
so end and endsub are reconized ?
cool....thanks for ya'll teaching me...i'll read more
"sub" ... "endsub". I don't think you can write just "end"
the lumenlabs pumpkin stustev mentioned is great, the backlight is so good it looked photoshopped
[16:33:11] <tomp> http://lumenlab.com/2008/10/pumpkin/
[17:13:54] <anonimasu> http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/failboat7.jpg
anonimasu: hah! the goon show had an episode of the trans african canal ( but it was filled with sand )
does anyone know what is shivalik ?
google has some ideas http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=+shivalik&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
google says it is many things
great thanks...didn't even think of googling :)
* archivist has no idea
i have it in my folder and don't know why i have it :)
hello, quick question, maybe somebody can point me in the right direction, whats the best way to get 8 machines networked so that it may run on multiple PC's over a network?
buy eight network cards..
and a 10 port hub/switch
what is "it"?
8 cnc machines
so a 10 port rs232 hub?
so you want an 8-unit work cell, but you want the GUIs for all of them on a remote machine?
oh talking about rs232
or multiple remote machines
or are you taking about emc?
you probably want ethernet, not serial
well if it's better to use emc i'd like to use it
though in theory you can use NML over a serial link
im not really sure, helping someone out
im not really sure what you want to do
are theese machines with controls already?
like cnc machines :p
yes, hooked to one windows machine via homemade switch box
what is it that you want to do?
you have 8 pc's if I gather it right
right now you need to be there physically to press the button in order to switch machines
wants to be able to switch machines via software, thereby allowing remote control over which machine gets the data
what kind of machines is it you are talking about?
do they already have controls?
not entirely certain
sounds like a drip feed (DNC) setup
is this a drip feed thing you're talking about, or a bulk download then "switch away"?
get a quad multiplexer IC
dave_: then it's a hard thing to help you with, it's very manufacturer specific how that works
he's got an rs232 coming off each machine, going into a homemade (scary looking) switch box
then the switch box outputs an rs232 to the PC
or maybe you could use a bunch of rs232 cards with PC as "router"
so the switch is essentially just changing the circuitry to connect whichever specific machine
you may want to suggest ethernet-to-serial converters
thats what i was thinking if maybe an old PC with either 8 rs232 cards or maybe a 8 in 1 rs232 card running linux could act as a bridge , then output it as ethernet
you install virtual comm ports on each PC, and you can select which one to talk to by changing the IP address (or VCP number)
how about a Lantronix or Digi module instead?
never heard of but ill look at them
if there are some machines that are physically close to each other, you can use dual or higher port units
[18:46:44] <SWPadnos> http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/
[18:46:51] <SWPadnos> http://www.digi.com/products/serialservers/
I did a google search for "serial device server"
I have older Digi and Lantronix units here
so, then what, you telnet to these devices?
also, if there are any ID options, using a set of RS485 adapters and a single serial bus may be possible
so another question, he's got an old vers of featurecam, would emc be a suitable replacement ?
it depends on the device
featureCAM is a CAM package, so it's not the same problem domain as EMC
well i was wondering if maybe just a netcat could route it out to windows
emc is a machine control
but i don't know a lot about serial ports and linux
featureCAM generates G-code. if you convert the machines to EMC, you can just transfer the files (or share them) over a network and be done with it
no serial crap involved
ooo @ sexy featurecam machine tool preview
and you don't have to use the DNC/drip-feed features of FeatureCAM (which is what I'm assuming is happening here)
so emc would be lacking certain features
they're not the same problem domain :)
featureCAM generates code that EMC can run (ideally)
drip feeding is pretty dead anwa
featureCAM doesn't do any machine control, that's what EMC does
EMC doesn't do g-code genearation (for CAD models anyway), it runs the machine
so he must have something else im not aware of controlling the machines
or do the machiens have a controller of their own
probably each machine has its own control
yes, he's probably downloading to CNC controllers via serial port
something ugly with transistors and wires :P
it isn't drip-feed, or he'd have to wait for each machine to finnish before being able to switch to a different one
so it's probably just faking out a tape reader, or for a (slightly) more modern control, downloading a program
so fcam just sends the data and the machines know what to do with it
yep, that's my bet
suddenly "flow control" means something to me
so theoretically if i got serial->ethernet connecters, connect the ethernets to an 8+port hub, and put the hub into the linux PC, i ought to be able to route them out to the windows PC's
who is using dnc
you don't put a hub into a PC unless you have very expensive server hardware
this is a simple networking thing if you use the device server route
ok device server
dave_: if you got the serial->eth converters you could drip-feed all the machines at once
the device server is the ethernet <-> serial adapter, not the hub
or switch, which is used most often these days
i think i need to map this out, my brain hurts ... thanks for the help.
time for a 12 hour nap
i am confused if dave wants dnc, or if he wants one computer controlling 8 machines without individual controls
well theres 8 machines
the machines have individual controls (i think)
he has one computer controlling all 8 via homemade switch
k, when you say "machine" do you mean machine + control
ok i say control wrong
what i mean is one computer sending data to 8 machines
do those machines have controls on them.
if they do, it's just a matter of setting them into dnc mode and hitting start
im assuming by what ive learned here yes
and then sending data to them over the network
either with a serial to ethernet adapter, or with an internal network port
they also must support dnc.
so the issue is mainly converting an rs232 connection to an ethernet networked connection
sure, 200 bucks for a 4 port serial to ethernet adapter
which these ports on the website seem to do
used them at a place i used to work to control pool filters/etc
so now each machine will get an IP address
depends on how the thing works - usually there's a PC-side driver that you install, and it connects to the serial adapter's IP
then it presents each of the 4 ports as though it were local
and any old internet router could pick it up
then it's just a matter of having both ends dnc-capable.
and you'd just configure featurecam or whatever to send data to 192.168.0.4 somehow or
no, to your imaginary com port
wheres my imaginary com port
on the computer
or is that my linux machine netcatting it through
the real port(other end is at the machine)
I dont think the solution includes linux anywhere.
dave_, it doesn't sendf it to the ip.
you install a driver that emulates a serial port over tcp
it wraps the rs232 stuff in ethernet
well he says theres a complete router set up with embedded software that will run the whole thing but its high priced
and presents the remote ports as though they were local
featurecam doesn't run on Linux, so there would be no netcatting involved
if you need 8 serial ports, why not get 8 serial ports and avoid all this complexity
that's the other option
[19:05:30] <SWPadnos> http://www.byterunner.com/
cradek: distance, usually
oh i know that but i was thinking of dedicating one PC as a router , bridging the 8 machines to the network
it sounds like you decided to use ethernet first, without even understanding the problem
cradek: well i need to network it
toastatwork: rs232 can run pretty darn far - and it sounds like he already has that working.
cradek: he wants to run it from home
that's another can of worms
and an electronic switchbox or 8-port serial card
you do not want to be DNC'ing a machine from a remote location
so he doesn't have to physically move the buttons on the existing switchbox
blew my mind
why didnt i think of that
your friend is a scary guy
im sure glad i came here
as toasty said, running machines remotely dnc:ed is not a good idea
if the connection drops the machine will just be like ?
there's also the fact that you can't tell who's holding the tool in the spindle when you hit "start" on your remote interface
that's the real issue..
DNC machines typically do not take off without hitting start locally.
toastatwork: they wont drop like that if you have a machine pysically there with vnc on
normaly with DNC u have to be in tape mode with rs232, depends on control not sure on newer fanucs
toastatwork: they do :)
so if i used this
[19:09:57] <dave_> http://www.digital-loggers.com/ss20.html?gclid=COnhg6HXyJYCFQplHgod3TfBxQ
toastatwork: if you make them ;)
toastatwork: well, in most cases yes.
oh, that looks cool
i could switch machines from the software side
woo 300 serial ports
you could take over the world with that
the specific way that switch operates could have bad consequences for Unix machines (like an EMC2 seial shell), since it uses the ~ character as the entry to their menu
rather than +++ like modems used to use (or something similar to it0
SWPadnos: serial concentrator maybe?
oh, nevermind. it needs 2 ~ 1/2 second apart
2 '~', 1/2 second apart :)
sure, as long as you can switch it electronically (under program control)
the problem with a serial port attached to a specific computer is that you must be logged into that computer (locally or via RDP) to be able to use the serial port
SWPadnos: No problem.... slaps ProComm+ on the table
the etyhernet device servers allow multiple clients to comtrol multiple targets simultaneously
SWPadnos: echo ath > com2
that only works after the "+++" <pause>
SWPadnos: A serial concentrator with a uC per port.... that has potential
uC FPGA, etc
it has potential, but I think it may be a little bit past its prime
SWPadnos: Hey now....
considering that serial ports are pretty rare these days (not on legacy equipment, but still)
SWPadnos: Don't make me slap you with my 8port serial i/o PDU now
ok, I won't
I hear those old devices are really well built
SWPadnos: I have a 8port PDU with ethernet i/o too, thogh only telnet
what's a PDU?
PDU == Power Distrubution Unit
ok, I thought it might be a "smart power strip"
allows you to turn on/off plugs and some track wattage
Mines older, no wattage monitoring) but kinda cool that you can turn ALL ON, but delay a set time so you dont surege
"master reboot controller" or "remote BRS"
I can set like 2s between when each outlet is turned on
I got way too much junk.... *sigh*
identical plastic tubs with snap on lids, labeled on all sides
fenn: a case of ziplock bags actually =)
only works for small things
even then, bins are better usually
For HW, 3lb plastic cashew jars with screw top lids
eww. plastic cashews
the zipbags work AWESOME for data cables
SWPadnos: better than raw
note to not upgrade to 8.10 on your emc machine added to the wiki front page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EmcKnowledgeBase
I've added that note to the EMC download page
maybe the Linuxcnc main page would be a good spot also
* BigJohnT looking at it
see how that looks
it shouldn't remove EMC, won't it just screw things up since there's no RT kernel for 8.10?
didn't want to get too technical but I can change it
also, I'd put that in bold, maybe at the top of the text (bottom is also fine, but it should be pretty obvious)
it will prevent EMC from working
that sounds good
though someone should try upgrading then selecting the older RT kernel - see what breaks :)
someone should, but regardless of the outcome I wouldn't recommend it to any user
do you know that he the EMC2 packages will be removed in a system upgrade?
how does that look SWPadnos
that's good. thanks
I strongly suspect it. the dependency chain for emc will trace back to a linux-headers package which is in 8.04 but not in 8.10 (a headers package that holds headers that are common to -generic and -rtai)
proceeding through the early steps of the distribution upgrade will confirm what packages will be removed, so you can find out without irrevocably damaging your emc 8.04 install
(unless they've changed it since the upgrade to 8.04)
* jepler debates trying 8.10 on his laptop
I'm debating the same thing
maybe in a few weeks when the mirrors have unmelted
I have a couple of other machines that I could try it on though
since 8.04 is an LTS, it shouldn't automatically prompt for a new version upgrade
oh, is that true? if so, score
it should do that only when the next LTS comes out, unless you explicitly ask the update manager to do it
I think that's true, but I can check ;)
if that's true, it won't be nearly the support nightmare I was envisioning
(but just because it doesn't today doesn't mean it might not tomorrow; they could push a new upgrade-manager tomorrow)
I think that's the design of update-manager, on purpose
I thought dapper gave us that button - but maybe I'm thinking of breezy.
not an implementation detail
yes, then they fixed it
or maybe it was the opposite, I can't remember
i've been running intrepid on my laptop for a month or tow
no rtai or emc2 on it tho
seb_kuzminsky: how is it? any big advances?
it's pretty good, except flash doesnt work so great with 64-bit
cradek: breezy had it to go to dapper
and dapper has it to go to hardy directly
there's one huge advance of intrepid over hardy: the wifi card in my laptop now works ;-)
seb_kuzminsky: that's a nice improvement
i like the internet
I did that, and it blew emc2 away, although the 2.6.15-magma kernel from dapper remained installed
seb_kuzminsky: and hardy stock doesn't?
or at least it didnt back when i switched
hmm.. might work in one of the more recent updates
they pushed 8.04.1 quite soon
ok, neither Synaptic nor Update Manager asks me to upgrade by default
oh shit - I didn't realize that lumenlab link was in a slashdot article
maybe I should have switched to the unlimited data plan
SWPadnos: unlimited plan?
dreamhost has an unlimited storage/transfer plan now
SWPadnos: Oh, you colo?
cheap too, but there are a couple of restrictions
err vhost I mean
my hosting provider, I have no colo
SWPadnos: You could.... ;)
SWPadnos: I think it takes a while before the package manager asks you to upgrade, at least with 6.06 it didn't ask till 8.04 came out
exactly - it'll tell you when the next LTS is released, but not non-LTS releases in between
you wouldn't want to upgrade an LTS to non-LTS, if support is your thing
BigJohnT thanks for your excellent tutorial on the mpg pendant, i used it and got mine running in 10 mins! it works perfectly
* BigJohnT says thanks for the feedback :)
* BigJohnT will take the rest of the day off now
sounds good ;-)
talk to you guys later
good night all
hey Dallur hows the sail boat doing