#emc | Logs for 2008-10-23

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[00:40:24] <rheide> Could anyone offer advice on how to get the floppy drive recognized after installing emc2 with the Ubuntu 8.04 install? It seems like necessary drivers were omitted from the CD to make room for emc.
[00:48:49] <rheide> ´╗┐/help
[01:06:07] <cradek> I've never heard of a floppy drive not working
[01:28:53] <rheide> cradek, thanks. I've used the Ubuntu 8.04 / EMC2 iso to install to two different machines, and the floppy on both was not available after installation. The drives DO work, as a LiveCD of Ubuntu 8.04 DOES give access to them. I guess I'll ask around on the Ubuntu forums.
[01:29:21] <cradek> do you ever see an error?
[01:30:08] <cradek> hnc@hnc:~$ modinfo floppy
[01:30:08] <cradek> filename: /lib/modules/2.6.24-16-rtai/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko
[01:30:14] <cradek> there is a floppy driver in the kernel
[01:30:14] <rheide> No, no errors as the drive is totally not available.
[01:30:34] <cradek> in what way is it totally not available? tell me what you see that's wrong
[01:30:53] <cradek> unfortunately my only 8.04 machine doesn't have a floppy
[01:31:14] <rheide> Well, I don't remember what I saw under the LiveCD, but if I look at places, the floppy is not listed.
[01:31:45] <cradek> at a shell type 'id' and see if you're in the floppy group
[01:33:21] <rheide> id does show "25 (floppy)
[01:33:23] <cradek> anyone else have a hardy/emc2 machine with floppy?
[01:33:41] <cradek> ok, that's good
[01:34:44] <rheide> The modinfo floppy does show results too. Would it be helpful if I posted them?
[01:34:56] <cradek> no I bet they match mine.
[01:35:15] <cradek> if you run 'modprobe floppy' what does it do?
[01:35:47] <cradek> err sorry, 'sudo modprobe floppy'
[01:36:00] <rheide> FATAL: Error inserting floppy (/lib/modules/2.6.24-16-rtai/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko): Operation not permitted
[01:36:14] <cradek> is that with the sudo?
[01:36:50] <rheide> No, that was prior to sudo. Using sudo I got nothing back.
[01:37:02] <cradek> now type 'dmesg' and look at the last few lines
[01:37:55] <rheide> [ 4792.744855] Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M
[01:37:55] <rheide> [ 4792.762348] FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077
[01:38:05] <cradek> nifty
[01:38:10] <cradek> does it show up in the gnome menu now?
[01:38:32] <rheide> Yes! Will is stay there after reboot?
[01:38:43] <cradek> I don't think so
[01:38:46] <cradek> does it work?
[01:39:35] <rheide> Okay. So how do I get it to persist?
[01:39:47] <cradek> does it work?
[01:40:16] <rheide> Yes, it does work.
[01:40:41] <cradek> carefully run 'echo floppy|sudo tee -a /etc/modules'
[01:40:56] <cradek> I think that will tell it to load at boot time
[01:41:06] <cradek> then I guess reboot/retry
[01:41:26] <rheide> I presume I leave off the single quotes and just type the characters between them, right?
[01:41:31] <cradek> yes
[01:43:20] <rheide> Okay, I've typed it. I will give it a try. I'll have to log off as I'm typing from the same machine. Thanks a bunch. If this doesn't work, it's at least a step in the right direction.
[01:43:47] <cradek> you will come back and say whether it works?
[01:44:14] <cradek> http://backports.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?t=942047
[01:44:25] <cradek> here's someone else with the same problem, and someone proposed the same fix
[01:47:13] <rheide> Yes, I'll be back in a minute. Sorry it took so long, I was printing our conversation for future reference.
[01:47:23] <cradek> ok, great
[01:52:23] <rheide> cradek, the floppy persisted. THANKS!
[01:52:35] <cradek> yay
[01:52:53] <cradek> I don't know the cause, but we now know the fix
[01:53:43] <rheide> I've been trying to find anything on the newsgroups, but obviously didn't look in the right places. This is actually my dads machine, so he's been patiently waiting for me to get the floppy working for him.
[01:54:41] <cradek> I bet not many people are using floppies anymore. I wonder if this problem is specific to the emc2 kernel or not.
[01:54:53] <cradek> maybe someone with other kernels installed will see this question and let us know.
[01:55:57] <rheide> Well, when your 78, it's hard to change your ways. I thought he was doing well getting into Linux.
[01:56:32] <rheide> ´╗┐Thanks again for all of your help. I think I'll go home now.
[01:56:40] <cradek> welcome. goodnight
[01:59:46] <DX^> I hear you're all gay
[02:00:00] <cradek> hahaha
[02:00:18] <SWPLinux> the erve
[02:00:20] <SWPLinux> nerve too
[02:00:26] <cradek> only some of us I'm sure
[02:00:41] <SWPLinux> I'm pretty sure we aren't 100%
[02:05:10] <jepler> he's the one with "ga" in his hostname
[02:05:56] <cradek> what's it mean if I notice (and am surprised) he used the right "you're"?
[02:06:54] <cradek> hm, I've done exactly none of the project I hoped to do tonight
[02:07:15] <cradek> and it's 9pm...
[02:09:19] <jmkasunich> I know that feeling
[02:09:28] <jmkasunich> and its 10 here
[03:08:26] <jtr> cradek: saw an email about the same floppy problem with Ubuntu 8.10 on my local linux user group. I know it's not a RT kernel.
[03:18:31] <cradek> that's good to know, thanks
[03:19:25] <jtr> you're welcome, and good night.
[03:42:22] <Jymmmmm> evening folks
[03:51:08] <LawrenceG> hi Jymm
[04:19:11] <Jymmmmm> how ya doin
[05:31:24] <maddash> *gasp*
[05:31:26] <maddash> * maddash is awake!
[05:32:33] <toastydeath> gasp
[05:34:04] <maddash> * maddash is EST!
[05:34:05] <maddash> double gasp!
[05:34:21] <fenn> shocking
[06:03:01] <maddash> damn disconnects
[06:04:37] <maddash> fenn: chicago, IL?
[06:04:43] <maddash> hm, CST
[06:04:52] <maddash> CT*
[06:07:00] <fenn> bloomington IN
[06:14:36] <maddash> arghhh
[06:15:28] <maddash> brother was just in IU @ bloomington this summer
[06:17:10] <toastydeath> =/
[06:17:27] <maddash> "=/"?
[06:17:57] <toastydeath> not quite =(
[06:17:59] <toastydeath> but close
[06:18:20] <toastydeath> i forget why i did that, either way
[06:20:04] <maddash> toastydeath: NJ? you're EST too?
[06:23:16] <toastydeath> yessir
[06:23:54] <toastydeath> DE, actually
[06:24:02] <toastydeath> NJ is uh, 7 minutes to the border
[06:24:08] <fenn> delaware, birthplace of corporations
[06:24:27] <toastydeath> what i was suprised about
[06:24:30] <toastydeath> is that everything in DE
[06:24:42] <toastydeath> is all inside 5 minutes of driving
[06:24:53] <toastydeath> any service I need is right there
[06:25:36] <fenn> i suppose one could say that about most cities
[06:26:16] <toastydeath> yeah, but this isn't a city
[06:26:19] <toastydeath> which shocked me.
[06:26:22] <fenn> it's a city-state
[06:26:35] <toastydeath> regardless i wasn't expecting it
[06:26:35] <fenn> delawareopolis
[06:26:43] <toastydeath> and it is a pleasant suprise!
[06:34:30] <toastydeath> doot doot doot i am going to get tested for a learning disability
[06:36:04] <maddash> toastydeath: so why, fellow EST-er, are you still awake?
[06:39:18] <toastydeath> because i always am awake at this hour
[06:39:26] <toastydeath> i hate going to bed, and i hate waking up
[06:39:42] <toastydeath> not in the nihilistic sense, just don't enjoy those things
[06:39:51] <maddash> no work? class? obligations?
[06:40:08] <toastydeath> both!
[06:40:18] <toastydeath> well, work
[06:40:21] <toastydeath> class was today
[06:40:24] <toastydeath> but i was up to 5 last night
[06:40:26] <toastydeath> so a similar situation
[06:40:33] <toastydeath> i wind up sleeping when i get home from work a little
[06:40:38] <toastydeath> it's very chaotic
[06:41:05] <toastydeath> some days I am up 20-22 hrs, others i sleep twice or three times in small bursts, others i sleep 14-16 hrs
[06:41:23] <toastydeath> it's pretty cool because it gives my friends the impression i am always up
[06:41:28] <toastydeath> because there's no rhyme or reason to it
[06:42:48] <toastydeath> why are YOU up, mister
[06:46:37] <fenn> maddash: you can see my sleep trends on this activity log: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/sleepz/test.html
[06:47:04] <maddash> toastydeath: studying, dude.
[06:47:35] <maddash> toastydeath: I wish I had your stamina now. I used to, but then this depression crap sucked away my strength
[06:48:07] <maddash> fenn: how the heck did you make that? and what do the colors denote?
[06:48:29] <fenn> python, and years of obsessive notekeeping
[06:48:46] <fenn> blue is sleep, red is internet...
[06:49:05] <fenn> clear is categories that i havent assigned colors to yet
[06:49:28] <maddash> green?
[06:49:30] <maddash> yellow?
[06:50:02] <fenn> green = food, yellow = chatting with people or doing computery things like writing code
[06:50:09] <maddash> brown = douching?
[06:50:21] <fenn> that's "Dark Orange" mister!
[06:50:38] <maddash> gray = douching?
[06:50:54] <fenn> the brief period when i was on a "normal" schedule was a bike tour
[06:51:50] <maddash> omg, the blue keeps shifting -- uniformly, too. how do you know exactly when you fall asleep, and wake?
[06:52:25] <fenn> when i wake up, i usually lay around in bed for a little while, then when i get up i write in my log
[06:52:42] <fenn> it's not some EEG neuroscience stuff
[06:54:14] <toastydeath> WELL IT SHOULD BE
[06:54:47] <maddash> hmmmmmm
[06:54:47] <maddash> thanks for the idea!!!!
[06:54:52] <toastydeath> also maddash: i think i sleep like this because of work + crushing course loads
[06:55:02] <toastydeath> well not crushing when viewed individually
[06:55:08] <maddash> oh? how many?
[06:55:10] <toastydeath> but crushing when viewed in light of a 100 hr week
[06:55:13] <toastydeath> 12-15
[06:55:19] <toastydeath> on top of a 40 hr week at work
[06:55:28] <maddash> haha. the units are credits, right?
[06:55:31] <toastydeath> this is my first semester where I'm only taking one class
[06:55:31] <toastydeath> yar
[06:55:51] <maddash> nice.
[06:56:34] <fenn> maddash: i might have gotten the chart idea from http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleepchart.htm
[06:56:58] <toastydeath> actually 100 hrs is a total overshoot
[06:57:02] <toastydeath> disregard that
[06:57:28] <toastydeath> 65-75 hrs
[06:57:31] <toastydeath> depending on homework
[06:57:58] <maddash> now I know my next pic32 project -- EEG!
[06:58:12] <toastydeath> haha have you ever taken an eeg
[06:58:14] <toastydeath> they're crazy
[06:58:31] <maddash> yes, I have
[06:58:38] <maddash> many times, whn I was young
[06:58:54] <toastydeath> if you get it working you'll have to wire a BRAIN/EMC INTERFACE
[06:58:59] <toastydeath> and become voltron
[06:59:12] <maddash> omg brilliant!
[06:59:19] <fenn> any newtypes here?
[06:59:22] <toastydeath> (any argument is immediately won by mentioning voltron)
[06:59:25] <maddash> actually, almost brilliant
[06:59:32] <maddash> 'newtypes'?
[06:59:38] <fenn> gundam reference
[06:59:54] <maddash> oh. over 9000!
[07:00:04] <fenn> eh. something like that
[07:00:26] <toastydeath> i think gundam is a pretty cool guy eh is over 9000 an doesnt afraid of anything
[07:02:48] <toastydeath> http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/memes/paedobearboating.jpg
[07:03:31] <fenn> those memes will rot your brain you know
[07:03:48] <maddash> er, a bear on a boat?
[07:03:51] <maddash> why?
[07:04:19] <toastydeath> uh
[07:04:21] <toastydeath> you uh
[07:04:21] <fenn> maddash: don't worry, the man is just diseased.
[07:04:22] <toastydeath> don't want to know
[07:04:38] <maddash> 'paedobear'?
[07:05:06] <maddash> crap, gotta study
[07:05:07] <toastydeath> http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/memes/inyourface.jpg
[07:05:10] <maddash> must stop salcking
[07:05:22] <toastydeath> must continue slacking
[07:05:23] <toastydeath> perpetually
[07:05:56] <fenn> * fenn is currently reading http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Books/Meme%20Machine/Chapter%201.htm
[07:06:13] <toastydeath> advice toast says: don't study, make subprime loans
[07:06:31] <toastydeath> http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/memes/subversivedontrecycle.jpg
[07:06:46] <toastydeath> fenn: tl,dr
[07:06:54] <toastydeath> i can only consume memes
[07:07:03] <toastydeath> I AM BUT A MAN; THEY ARE NOT FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND
[07:07:55] <toastydeath> how did someone write so much on a subject that is basically entirely comprised of lolcats
[07:08:21] <fenn> it's more than lolcats, it's basically entirety of human culture
[07:08:45] <toastydeath> science is ruining my lolcats
[07:09:51] <maddash> i'm so tired and my stomach hurts. oh gods.
[07:10:23] <toastydeath> now is the winter of your discount tent
[07:10:56] <toastydeath> why does your stomach hurt
[07:11:25] <fenn> maddash: studying at 3 am is counterproductive you know
[07:11:38] <fenn> unless you're naturally up at 3 am
[07:11:42] <toastydeath> does anyone like dirty electro house?
[07:11:47] <toastydeath> because here some is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jY-Dl1T_V8
[07:11:52] <fenn> i LIVE in a dirty electro house!
[07:12:11] <toastydeath> bzzt bzzt thump thump *female vocals* bzzt bzzt thump thump
[07:12:31] <fenn> great, now lets just hope we can't understand the lyrics at all
[07:12:43] <toastydeath> i can't understand a thing she's saying
[07:13:27] <fenn> very 80's
[07:13:31] <toastydeath> yup
[07:14:00] <toastydeath> i love this stuff
[07:15:24] <toastydeath> mr oizo, too
[07:15:48] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGvNjHzSR2Q
[07:20:28] <toastydeath> and also the entire genere of dubstep
[07:20:29] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVKboRPgu0U&feature=related
[07:21:33] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he9RshNpd24&feature=related
[07:31:30] <maddash> oh my god
[07:31:30] <maddash> so tired
[07:31:32] <maddash> mst keep eyes open
[07:32:52] <toastydeath> o rly
[11:01:13] <maddash> mind-controlled CNC
[11:01:13] <maddash> !
[11:01:35] <fragalot> too dangerous
[11:01:45] <fragalot> I'd think "what if it crashes now" and it 'l do it
[11:11:51] <maddash> so hook up your agitation waves with the E-stop
[11:13:08] <fragalot> so if you're aggitated about something unrelated, the machine should halt?
[11:13:30] <maddash> if you accidentally swing your hand into the Estop, should the machine halt?
[11:14:01] <fragalot> no.
[11:14:04] <maddash> "Hi guys, my CNC's not moving even though I've got everything set up correctly." "Are you in a calm state of mind?"
[11:14:10] <fragalot> hahah
[11:14:18] <fragalot> "NOT ANYMORE"
[11:14:27] <fragalot> bbl, food.
[11:14:33] <maddash> "No, if I don't machine these parts, my boss is going to fire me."
[11:14:41] <maddash> catch-22
[11:14:47] <fragalot> xD gotta run
[11:20:53] <rayh> "if you accidentally..." YES it should halt!
[11:20:55] <rayh> back
[11:22:33] <rayh> oops
[11:26:00] <fragalot> back
[11:35:25] <maddash> openoffice is so freakin' bloated that it takes less time to open a PDF than a DOC
[11:35:38] <maddash> reading the PDF with evince
[11:35:45] <maddash> this is so screwed up
[11:37:10] <fragalot> lol
[12:56:12] <archivist> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:56:12] <archivist> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-10-23.txt
[14:01:42] <micges> good afternood
[14:01:46] <micges> noon*
[14:03:10] <BigJohnT> afternoon micges
[15:52:45] <jepler> is there a standard kind of plot that exaggerates values near the minimum and maximum, while compressing ones in the middle? The kind of graph I have in mind would make the logistic curve look like a straight line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function
[15:54:39] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[15:59:18] <fragalot> jepler: excel allows you to do such a thing,..
[16:00:40] <anonimasu> hmm..
[16:00:57] <anonimasu> jepler: wont gplot do it?
[16:01:20] <jepler> anonimasu: possibly, but I'm not sure what it's called
[16:02:19] <anonimasu> how would a logarithmic curve do?
[16:03:23] <fragalot> anonimasu: don't you mean exponential?
[16:03:29] <jepler> a log plot exaggerates small values and compresses large values
[16:03:45] <jepler> it makes an exponential curve look like a straight line
[16:03:53] <jepler> that's related to what I want but not quite it
[16:04:06] <fragalot> can't have it all :p
[16:04:10] <fragalot> gotta go, cya
[16:31:17] <Paragon> Hello Chaps... Can't stay long but is there an equivlent of the Mesa 7i43 board available in the UK. I contacted Mesa but they do accept paypal only credit cards of which I cut up long ago ;-)
[16:32:19] <BigJohnT> Paragon: how do you use paypal without a credit card?
[16:32:36] <Paragon> Ooops Do NOT accept Paypal ....
[16:32:58] <Paragon> Debit Card or bank account
[16:33:18] <archivist> debit card should work
[16:33:32] <BigJohnT> oh what archivist said
[16:34:10] <Paragon> Here in the UK I have a Maestro / Switch debit card but I think Mesa only accept credit card such as Visa etc
[16:34:42] <archivist> some debits are in visa/mastercard org
[16:35:25] <Paragon> Dont think this one is. It's a Natwest debit Card
[16:35:56] <Paragon> I just looked at and there is no Visa / mastercard symbol on it.
[16:36:07] <jepler> jon elson has boards that provide similar functions to 7i43 (also parport, also work with emc) and I see he has a paypal option on his website. http://jelinux.pico-systems.com/motion.html
[16:36:57] <jepler> mesanet.com's website says they accept payment by methods including "money order or by wiring funds". have you e-mailed them and established that there's not an acceptable payment method?
[16:36:58] <Paragon> Ill take a look. Pity about the exchange rate and sterling falling though ;-)
[16:37:18] <BigJohnT> not for us :)
[16:37:28] <jepler> maybe someday I'll be able to afford travel to europe again
[16:37:30] <Paragon> $30 for wire transfer :-(
[16:37:33] <jepler> if the oil doesn't run out first
[16:38:09] <Paragon> LOL ... Yep hand up we have had it good as far as exchange rates go ...
[16:38:37] <archivist> we could almost do with a stockist over here
[16:38:41] <skunkworks> drill baby drill?
[16:40:12] <Paragon> archivist: maybe we could offer our services for UK distribution ;-)
[16:41:43] <archivist> I wish I had capital to play properly
[16:42:21] <archivist> which reminds me to reply to someone who wants to buy IC's I have
[16:42:38] <Paragon> :-) ... Ok gotta go catch my train...
[16:42:50] <archivist> tarin... car!
[16:42:55] <archivist> train
[16:43:50] <Paragon> Central London > Bexley ...
[16:44:25] <archivist> Swad to Burton :) easy
[16:44:31] <BigJohnT> when I didn't have any money I had time to play :)
[16:45:02] <archivist> Im waiting for the redundancy moneyz
[16:45:08] <archivist> then.....
[16:45:40] <BigJohnT> what is redundancy money?
[16:46:32] <archivist> when you get laid off
[16:47:02] <BigJohnT> ok
[16:47:40] <archivist> dunno what its called over there
[16:48:00] <BigJohnT> welfare
[16:48:37] <archivist> I thought that was .gov money over there
[16:49:11] <BigJohnT> nope it's my money... the gov takes it from me and gives it to welfare people
[16:50:18] <archivist> over here thats national insurance, also does medical, redundancy pay is from the company
[16:51:06] <archivist> they have to pay you to kick you out
[16:52:17] <jepler> I think the right name for that is "unemployment insurance" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_insurance#United_States
[16:52:43] <jepler> sometimes companies pay extra above and beyond that, particularly in the case of unionized workers
[16:53:26] <DaViruz> un-ionized? ;)
[16:56:07] <archivist> for us redundancy pay is a lump sum on exit the employer has to pay (he can pay extra if he wishes)
[17:00:52] <jepler> hm I don't think there's anything quite like that over here
[17:01:26] <archivist> so if thrown out the door you get nothing?
[17:01:33] <Dallur> 2 weeks right ?
[17:02:15] <archivist> over here its x weeks pay for n years worked
[17:02:43] <jepler> archivist: yeah basically
[17:03:14] <archivist> hmm you keep some savings then :(
[17:05:15] <BigJohnT> If your fired for just cause (you were a bad boy) you get nothing... if your let go you can collect a weekly compensation for a period of time the amount a time depend on the state...
[17:14:21] <anonimasu> hmm
[17:26:15] <Alex09> Good people
[17:37:01] <Alex09> so quiet
[17:43:51] <Dallur> nahh
[17:43:57] <Dallur> just shy :P
[17:50:14] <toastatwork> fff
[17:50:32] <alex_joni> Alex09: people usually ask questions in here, and sometimes they even get answers
[17:50:49] <alex_joni> sometimes they are even the right answers :P
[17:52:07] <toastatwork> and then SOMETIMES
[17:52:12] <toastatwork> there are messages from BEYOND THE GRAAAAVE
[17:52:23] <toastatwork> they're mostly lolcats memes, though
[17:58:19] <alex_joni> i can has cheezburger
[18:04:17] <Kohlswa> mMmmm Mazatrol http://tinyurl.com/6z5k7l
[18:06:23] <user_> user_ is now known as SkinnYPuP
[18:08:53] <Alex9> nice design u got
[18:09:20] <anonimasu> haha
[18:09:21] <anonimasu> :)
[18:09:30] <Alex9> :)
[18:11:29] <Alex9> do you know where i could fine about 'how to compile using QT'
[18:11:48] <anonimasu> compile what?
[18:11:50] <Alex9> ? is Axis using QT on design?
[18:11:56] <alex_joni> nope
[18:12:03] <anonimasu> no
[18:12:04] <Alex9> QT under linux
[18:12:15] <alex_joni> emc2 as it is doesn't use any Qt
[18:12:37] <toastatwork> well it should
[18:12:41] <Alex9> what is the different on EMC2 and Axis
[18:12:44] <Alex9> ?
[18:12:52] <alex_joni> AXIS is part of emc2
[18:13:07] <alex_joni> AXIS is teh GUI (Graphical User INterface) to emc2
[18:13:08] <Alex9> i see
[18:13:21] <cradek> AXIS is one of the GUIs available
[18:13:22] <alex_joni> but AXIS is written in python with Tk as the toolkit
[18:13:29] <alex_joni> not in Qt..
[18:14:16] <alex_joni> there are other GUI's available: tkemc, mini (both in tcl/tk), xemc (native Xlibs), keystick (text based), etc
[18:14:30] <anonimasu> I with there was a way to make C# bind to libnml and libhal
[18:14:45] <Alex9> how they could be joined together? using pyton ..correct me?
[18:15:32] <alex_joni> Alex9: the thing that glues the GUI's together with emc2 is called NML
[18:15:54] <alex_joni> bbl..
[18:15:54] <Alex9> NML... could u tell me more bout them?
[18:18:13] <Alex9> the older EMC (BDI) required RTAI... where are they on EMC2 ?
[18:20:28] <Alex9> sorry about my rude/lame question
[18:23:10] <Alex9> Network Management Layer (TMN)? my PC do not have Network, could it be done without Network?
[18:23:17] <Alex9> (i surf)
[18:23:57] <Alex9> eh...sorry, wrong posting
[18:24:35] <Alex9> ?
[18:24:59] <SkinnYPuP> Whatcha trying to do ?
[18:27:05] <Alex9> study on EMC2
[18:27:32] <anonimasu> NML is a library for doing IPC
[18:27:39] <anonimasu> over a network or locally
[18:28:42] <Alex9> <i record this to my note>
[18:30:50] <SkinnYPuP> Put this in the google looks like some good reading NML site:linuxcnc.org
[18:31:29] <Alex9> <bad screen on me> C# bind to libnml and libhal... so, EMC2 using C#
[18:31:42] <Alex9> <i ll surf it>
[18:33:08] <anonimasu> no
[18:33:11] <anonimasu> it's not using c#
[18:33:57] <anonimasu> it's using Python and a library to bing to libnml and libhal
[18:34:54] <Alex9> ...i see
[18:37:20] <Alex9> i have difficulty to understand IPC, could u help me in 'short fine knowledge'
[18:37:34] <anonimasu> interprocess communication
[18:37:42] <anonimasu> messaging between applications
[18:39:27] <Alex9> where i could fine where it(IPC & NML) contain on EMC2 source? like *.log kind off
[18:43:25] <Alex9> do you know knowledge on how to recompile already installed EMC2 ? what is the conseqncy to do so? crash?
[18:45:15] <anonimasu> there is a guide on how to do it in the wiki at www.linuxcnc.org
[18:45:29] <jepler> Alex9: the directory.map file I mentioned to you yesterday shows which directories in the emc2 source code are concerned with nml
[18:45:49] <jepler> Alex9: when done correctly, compiling emc yourself gives a package that works identically in every way to the precompiled version.
[18:48:48] <Alex9> i see...
[18:53:35] <Alex9> can EMC2 installed on other Linux distribution, what additional dependency required?
[18:54:28] <cradek> yes, and of course it depends on which dependencies that distribution doesn't have
[18:55:14] <skunkworks> From what I hear - the hardest part it making the realtime kernel
[18:55:23] <jepler> I've linked to this wiki page many times, but it seems you still have not read it: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Preparing_other_versions_of_Linux_to_compile_emc2
[18:55:54] <cradek> it does seem like I've heard many of these questions recently
[18:55:57] <jepler> the general requirements for emc are on that page, as well as specific ways to satisfy those requirements on various systems
[18:57:59] <jepler> hi seb
[18:58:06] <Alex9> sorry, my program downloaded it right now, i can read it as soon as i get off from expensive internet, since that, i mining all/any information i could get. to cross refference it, rather than from 1 source
[18:58:15] <Alex9> of information
[18:58:45] <Alex9> so, your comment for me, i consider very important
[18:59:15] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: hi!
[18:59:42] <Alex9> hi too, for humanity.
[19:00:02] <seb_kuzminsky> :-)
[19:00:49] <jepler> like the emc software itself, the documentation is improved by contributions. If you find that the documentation about dependencies for emc2 is not good enough, then improve the documentation as you are able to answer the questions for yourself. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[19:02:59] <Alex9> i would like to, if i could do so..
[19:06:33] <Alex9> so, ubuntu have RTAI already installed ?
[19:07:02] <anonimasu> no
[19:07:03] <seb_kuzminsky> Alex9: if you install Ubuntu from the EMC2 live CD it has RTAI; if you install Ubuntu from any other source it doesnt
[19:08:18] <Alex9> u mean: http://au.releases.ubuntu.com/hardy/ubuntu-8.04.1-desktop-i386.iso
[19:08:24] <Alex9> has no RTAI?
[19:08:32] <seb_kuzminsky> Alex9: correct
[19:08:39] <Alex9> (oh men)
[19:09:00] <seb_kuzminsky> but you can add it yourself by following the instructions on the wiki
[19:09:22] <Alex9> i already download it and almost finish, what should i do to fix it
[19:09:57] <seb_kuzminsky> dl the emc2 live cd or install rtai on the ubuntu cd you're downloading now
[19:10:19] <anonimasu> judging from your questions I suggest you download the emc2 livecd
[19:10:23] <anonimasu> :)
[19:10:34] <seb_kuzminsky> i agree with anonimasu :-P
[19:11:17] <anonimasu> becasue compiling RTAI is not trivial
[19:11:32] <seb_kuzminsky> it's character-building!
[19:11:46] <Alex9> emc2 livecd has the same amount with that... 690MB !
[19:12:03] <Alex9> (well...ok)
[19:12:18] <anonimasu> seb_kuzminsky: agreed ^_^
[19:13:22] <Alex9> IF, just IF i choose to unstall RTAI... what stepS should i take?
[19:13:31] <seb_kuzminsky> step 1: read the wiki
[19:14:10] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J7m7Y1evgQ&NR=1 spindle motor ^_^
[19:14:49] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky expects sssssKPOP! ^^^^^
[19:16:43] <seb_kuzminsky> i've been listening to this music a lot lately: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-azvIwldYg
[19:34:11] <Alex9> back again
[19:38:24] <SkinnYPuP> lol
[19:38:25] <SkinnYPuP> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQMwimh8QdI
[19:39:49] <fragalot> SkinnYPuP: lmao
[19:40:26] <SkinnYPuP> interesting vid to set that song to i must say
[19:41:26] <fragalot> ahhaha
[19:41:35] <fragalot> "duck and cover" ... for an ATOMIC BOMB
[19:41:41] <fragalot> as if thats going to help
[19:41:58] <SkinnYPuP> no joke !!! lol
[20:01:23] <Alex9> witch file on EMC2 to execute G-Code?
[20:02:02] <anonimasu> did you read through the wiki?
[20:02:34] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGF07oVkl6M
[20:03:14] <Alex9> ..ok..
[20:03:27] <seb_kuzminsky> cool, skunk
[20:03:59] <SkinnYPuP> Nice !
[20:10:20] <Alex9> good point
[20:11:58] <Alex9> creative movie maker
[20:13:01] <Alex9> looks like made by flash... hardy also
[20:22:05] <Alex9> hallow keil
[20:42:35] <jepler> Alex9: that file directory.map I referred to you earlier says which source directory contains the g-code interpreter.
[20:45:43] <Alex9> ..i see
[20:46:11] <Alex9> thank u
[20:46:34] <Alex9> i gonna look it up
[20:51:39] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgGYNiidL1I&feature=related
[20:51:41] <anonimasu> wow
[20:54:41] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250311253299 ... nobody bid.... wonder what table and saddle shake is?
[20:57:28] <anonimasu> toastydeath, toastatwork: wake up
[20:58:36] <toastatwork> ?
[20:58:36] <anonimasu> toastydeath: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n10AyLX7XSM&feature=related
[20:58:37] <Alex9> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgGYNiidL1I&feature=related ....mean hardware RTAI
[20:58:38] <anonimasu> :)
[20:58:43] <toastatwork> i am at work, no audio/video
[20:58:54] <anonimasu> hm.. that sucks.. save it for later..
[20:58:56] <anonimasu> it's a voicecoil stage
[20:59:13] <anonimasu> Alex9: no, that's just a show of some really cool motors
[20:59:28] <toastatwork> BUT I AM GOING HOEM NAO
[20:59:31] <toastatwork> brb
[20:59:37] <cradek> LawrenceG: I would guess shake means looseness in the ways/gibs
[20:59:56] <Alex9> :)
[21:00:04] <cradek> LawrenceG: this machine has tapered gibs to adjust that, but you'll surely find that it's more worn in the center of travel and can't be adjusted to be equally snug everywhere
[21:00:57] <cradek> the travel quoted is bogus - the real travel is around 12x18
[21:02:51] <cradek> to me it looks not-at-all abused, and not overly worn
[21:07:18] <Alex9> does any one know, good 'much lower in price' linear-scale-encoder on market? (brand)
[21:08:24] <Alex9> i wonder how they manage to carry a very long linear-scale-encoder...
[21:09:02] <Alex9> rather than rotary-encoder
[21:09:19] <anonimasu> uh.. a linear encoder is linear..
[21:10:08] <Alex9> price per meter...right, per it scale, i mean
[21:10:23] <Alex9> compare to other brand
[21:10:50] <anonimasu> what, brand of linar scales?
[21:12:11] <LawrenceG> cradek, yea... looks not bad... love the paper tape reels
[21:13:40] <LawrenceG> cradek, is that semecircle missing from the table supposed to be there?.... looks like no holes drilled in the table... probably used with a vice its whole life
[21:15:10] <Alex9> :)
[21:17:04] <Alex9> a tape... its gave me an idea
[21:17:46] <Alex9> home made encoder... it would wear off
[21:18:07] <Alex9> ..
[21:23:30] <jepler> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/spindle-encoder.html
[21:23:55] <maddash> wtf? a professor who refuses to admit the facts?
[21:24:07] <maddash> argh damn keyboard focus
[21:24:15] <Alex9> ..i see
[21:30:27] <Alex9> what if i try to recompile EMC2 on CoolCNC(PuppyLinux) ...what would i need to do so? what other dependencies should i install...
[21:32:04] <rayh> Alex9, Do you have experience compiling?
[21:32:11] <Alex9> what exacly RS232 do/transmit on EMC2 ? instead LPT1 port output
[21:32:33] <anonimasu> Alex9: did you read through the wiki?
[21:32:41] <Alex9> compile on linux...nop exacly, always end up mess
[21:32:51] <rayh> Serial is not really used with EMC2
[21:33:18] <rayh> Then I wouldn't try porting the current emc2 to puppy.
[21:33:23] <Alex9> wiki yup... still mess on dependency error
[21:33:33] <rayh> I'd get used to it running on a ubuntu stock install first.
[21:34:13] <rayh> dependency error?
[21:34:54] <Alex9> last time: kind of *.o,*.c,*.h missing files
[21:35:16] <anonimasu> c and h files I have a hard time beliving
[21:35:23] <anonimasu> O files is more probably that they are missing
[21:35:38] <anonimasu> since you cant build o files, unless you have the proper dependencies
[21:36:00] <Alex9> so much string...i could write it down on papper since no copy-paste on terminal ...no *.log ?
[21:36:20] <Alex9> yes true
[21:36:25] <Alex9> *.o alike
[21:36:55] <anonimasu> I'd suggest you grab the livecd, if you want it working
[21:37:01] <anonimasu> do you have a realtime kernel?
[21:37:09] <jepler> there are various ways in linux to record the output of commands. to find out how, search the internet for terms like this: save output of make
[21:37:29] <jepler> the first hit looks very promising: "How to save screen output to a text file ? - Linux Forums" http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/suse-linux-help/111809-how-save-screen-output-text-file.html
[21:37:37] <Alex9> bash/terminal keep scrool down left me on confuse on whats goin on, & what i do wrong
[21:38:01] <anonimasu> Alex9: do you have a realtime kernel(RTAI installed)
[21:38:03] <Alex9> wiki say, you would do fine and smooth
[21:38:51] <Alex9> ah
[21:39:28] <anonimasu> ?
[21:39:37] <Alex9> RTAI ...also has dependency that left me in a mess scrolled error
[21:40:19] <Alex9> i feel like playing jack pot here
[21:40:52] <anonimasu> well, that's true, you are doing random things in random order
[21:40:52] <Alex9> that why i manage ghost
[21:41:00] <Alex9> hahaha
[21:41:33] <anonimasu> compiling emc on a normal system is not trivial
[21:41:47] <jepler> we *know* that this is very difficult, particularly for a new user of linux. *that is why we provide a ready-to-install cdrom image*. you would do well to heed the advice of people like rayh who recommend that you use it.
[21:41:48] <Alex9> (thats great it, likes is embarresing to ask)
[21:42:03] <anonimasu> getting all dependencies takes quite a bit of work and that is the nontrivial part
[21:42:18] <anonimasu> and you might end up having to compile them too, if your distribution dosent have a package system
[21:42:25] <Alex9> yes i use it already...
[21:42:27] <anonimasu> then you have RTAI which is hard for people that know what they are doing
[21:42:42] <Alex9> but i curious about linux programming special in EMC2
[21:43:09] <anonimasu> If you install the livecd you can grab the development packages and compile your own emc very easily
[21:43:24] <Alex9> i never seen these on my good old delphi/pascal
[21:43:57] <Alex9> hmm...yes a good to try
[21:43:58] <anonimasu> you have
[21:44:03] <anonimasu> dll files..
[21:44:27] <anonimasu> "dynamic-link-library"
[21:44:48] <Alex9> *.dll files on what? windows /delphi yes
[21:44:58] <anonimasu> ofcourse
[21:45:15] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[21:47:37] <Alex9> what up with *.dll
[21:47:50] <Alex9> ...
[21:48:03] <anonimasu> nothing, 00:02 < Alex9> i never seen these on my good old delphi/pascal
[21:48:04] <Alex9> what did i do?
[21:48:19] <jepler> I think anonimasu means to say that windows has dependency issues too, you have just learned effective ways to deal with them and don't notice them much
[21:48:29] <maddash> i have a confession to make: i think using a PC LPx to control a CNC is clunky...I'm falling out of love with emc
[21:48:38] <Alex9> ah, yes...
[21:48:41] <jepler> maddash: you're breaking up with us?
[21:48:48] <jepler> maddash: does this mean we're not going to the movies on friday?
[21:48:56] <maddash> jepler: it's not you, it's me
[21:48:59] <anonimasu> maddash: well, order a mesa card..
[21:49:00] <anonimasu> :p
[21:49:31] <Alex9> but on delphi it recorded, & i can scrool it and fix the first problem encounter *.*
[21:49:38] <Alex9> one by one
[21:49:45] <maddash> when I have time, I'll work on a stepgen/tp on my pic
[21:50:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[21:50:21] <jepler> Alex9: linux also has IDEs that work like this. the terminal is not an IDE. If you want one, you should install one.
[21:50:43] <jepler> (I hate IDEs so I can't suggest any to you by name .. maybe someone else can, though)
[21:51:23] <toastydeath> eclipse has plugins for most languages/etc
[21:51:25] <Alex9> IDE... thats would be cool, name please..
[21:51:34] <jepler> maddash: make sure to release it under a free software license
[21:52:01] <maddash> jepler: i'll source it to you guys as soon as II have it
[21:52:07] <maddash> s/you guys/you/
[21:52:12] <jepler> (what I'd love is a library that encourages "hal-like" thinking on microcontrollers--threads, pins, signals)
[21:52:40] <Alex9> cool topic
[21:53:14] <Alex9> hal-like ...what mean?
[21:53:29] <anonimasu> hardware abstraction
[21:53:49] <Alex9> what micro u suggest?
[21:53:57] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_intro.html
[21:54:21] <jepler> oh personally I favor any microcontroller that can be programmed in C
[21:54:52] <toastydeath> in soviet america, C favors YOU
[21:55:29] <maddash> jepler: pics use gcc
[21:55:43] <maddash> where's swp?
[21:55:53] <maddash> SWPadnos: see that? jepler likes the pic too!
[21:56:02] <Alex9> all use gcc
[21:56:24] <jepler> maddash: gcc? or some other C compiler such as sdcc?
[21:56:48] <Alex9> sdcc is history, i guess
[21:56:50] <jepler> (the google summary of the first hit for 'pic gcc' says that "there is no GCC port for PICs and it is not likely that one will ever exist."
[21:57:35] <Alex9> good thing for PIC is, Low Voltage u got
[21:57:37] <maddash> jepler: "gcc pic32" : http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.debian%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&q=gcc+pic32&btnG=Search
[21:57:54] <maddash> gpl compiler, non-gpl libs unfortunately
[21:58:14] <Alex9> very low voltage
[21:58:38] <Alex9> use atmega
[21:59:32] <jepler> maddash: I see (but pic32 is about as related to pic as it is to 6502, as near as I can tell)
[21:59:42] <Alex9> avrstudio
[22:00:10] <Alex9> compiler on em
[22:00:27] <Alex9> just great
[22:00:33] <maddash> jepler: you're probably right, but I haven't a clue because pic32 is my first "pic."
[22:00:52] <Alex9> allrigt PIC to vote
[22:01:12] <maddash> jepler: actually, you're very right. traditional PICs are Harvard architecture, while the PIC32 is more akin to von Neumann type
[22:02:03] <Alex9> btw.what PIC series u like to deal?
[22:04:42] <Alex9> ...
[22:05:03] <maddash> Alex9: me? the 32-bit version seems quite nice
[22:05:51] <Alex9> nice
[22:05:58] <Alex9> :)
[22:09:26] <jepler> ah but there's a debian port to avr32 http://avr32.debian.net/
[22:09:45] <Alex9> best
[22:10:22] <jepler> (actually it doesn't look like they've gotten very far yet)
[22:10:29] <seb_kuzminsky> put a microblaze on the spartan3 on the 5i20 and run petalinux on it
[22:10:56] <seb_kuzminsky> we're running petalinux on the spartan3 eval board here at work, haven't tried it on the 5i20 yet ;-)
[22:11:18] <maddash> I don't understand this obsession with porting ENTIRE OSes to MICROcontrollers...
[22:12:03] <anonimasu> hm, it seems to me like you are very much into porting almost entire oses to them..
[22:12:03] <anonimasu> :p
[22:12:07] <Alex9> any one know why linux first boot are very long...? why not be in 1 zipped on Buffer-image-Files
[22:12:15] <seb_kuzminsky> but, but, ... but you CAN!
[22:12:23] <jepler> Alex9: because everyone who worked on linux is dumber than you .. total idiots
[22:12:57] <Alex9> why?
[22:13:10] <Alex9> explain opinion please
[22:13:50] <jepler> I see that there are two possibilities: (A) that you are smarter than all linux developers, or (B) that there are a series of technical requirements that you and I may not be aware of that make linux take more than 1 second to boot
[22:14:04] <Alex9> all i know is first-Boot = absenzing every device on PC again
[22:14:50] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky thinks LawrenceG has the right idea here...
[22:15:30] <dmess> get along kids
[22:15:40] <seb_kuzminsky> lol
[22:15:45] <dmess> or dads gonna bring out the belt
[22:16:20] <Alex9> hahaha.. :)) greatz to all guys
[22:16:45] <Alex9> made the world better and better
[22:18:32] <Alex9> hey? so quiet?
[22:18:49] <seb_kuzminsky> because dmess threatened us with the belt again
[22:18:52] <maddash> wow, the AT32AP7000 is hardcore: 150MHz/210DMIPS uc , 50kHz 16-bit DAC, 160 GPIO
[22:19:02] <Alex9> hahaha
[22:19:15] <maddash> wow. just wow. I wish these things came in plug-in modules.
[22:19:42] <seb_kuzminsky> maddash: yes but will it run Windows XP in a virtual machine running on Linux?
[22:20:01] <seb_kuzminsky> and if so how do I compile emc2 for windows xp for it?
[22:20:57] <Alex9> ?if answer needed <jepler>... <C> people in curious..
[22:22:22] <Alex9> imho. virtual machine is very HEAVY... for specialy my computer to run
[22:22:55] <maddash> Alex9: he was being HEAVILY sarcastic
[22:22:57] <Alex9> why not run it on 2 COMPUTER..
[22:23:20] <Alex9> if u see 'Broken Array' movie
[22:23:50] <Alex9> i mean "Broken Arrow" john-travolta,
[22:24:14] <Alex9> good guys do hack stuff
[22:25:08] <Alex9> designing computer viruses
[22:25:32] <Alex9> bla bla bla
[22:26:00] <Alex9> computer is not superman, could not do all in 1 same machine
[22:26:23] <Alex9> split it to do split job
[22:26:45] <Alex9> ...
[22:27:34] <Alex9> ok, i do wrong again... pardon me
[22:30:56] <Alex9> does any 1 know about EDM?
[22:32:04] <Alex9> string EDM can cut strong metal
[22:36:20] <Alex9> .
[22:38:15] <Alex9> imho, if u can design computer viruses, u would ot have dificulty in designing microprocessor program
[22:39:20] <Alex9> 1 that link them is they design on same low level langguage
[22:40:42] <Alex9> so computer virus is an art-study, using it might be a criminal
[22:43:25] <Alex9> imagine it as a minimum required program to live, efective & eficienly
[22:48:00] <anonimasu> hmmm
[22:48:01] <anonimasu> night
[23:09:02] <dmess> KISS principle
[23:09:02] <dmess> Keep It Simple Stupid
[23:31:12] <Alex9> huge & a lot of application active on Linux desktop burdan RTAI job, tru?
[23:37:39] <Alex9> i ve seen "There is no mercy" move once, hehe
[23:38:46] <Alex9> :)
[23:39:12] <Alex9> :'
[23:39:46] <Alex9> :7
[23:40:18] <Alex9> %7
[23:40:30] <Alex9> :>
[23:41:20] <Alex9> +_+
[23:41:34] <Alex9> @_@
[23:42:26] <Alex9> ^L^
[23:47:14] <Alex9> sometimes a man called:Evil and a Girl called:Heaven, i sometime confuse, why i ve seen the Evil keeps in-and-out Heaven over-and-over...
[23:47:52] <Alex9> ( a joke )
[23:52:29] <Alex9> when a man outing gas from his butt on a bus, english-guy says:'pardon me..', american says:'iam sorry..', mycountry-guys says:'...not me, not me...'
[23:53:11] <Alex9> :))
[23:53:13] <Alex9> ...
[23:58:44] <dmess> i have just been thrust into the bigest bee-hive of my carreer