#emc | Logs for 2008-10-15

[00:00:02] <dmess> Orenda... sorry let me corrct that
[00:01:13] <BigJohnT> dang it's going to rain tomorrow can't ride the bike :(
[00:01:51] <dmess> t'iss the season.. right..
[00:02:12] <BigJohnT> not usually wet here in October
[00:02:27] <dmess> i was happy NOT to see snow this weekend...
[00:02:55] <dmess> it was 23C when we had to leave
[00:02:56] <BigJohnT> yea, but your a bit north of me and just south of the north pole
[00:03:10] <spasticteapot> BigJohnT: What kind of bike?
[00:03:24] <BigJohnT> 98 goldwing aspencade
[00:04:07] <dmess> storing the boat and canoe and kayak... and stuf... brings a tear to my eyes
[00:04:29] <BigJohnT> got rid of all my boats...
[00:04:43] <spasticteapot> BigJohnT: If you're going to buy a Harley, make sure it's a Honda, eh?
[00:04:56] <dmess> just south of the north pole about where heaven is
[00:04:59] <BigJohnT> dmess: time to break out the snow machines
[00:05:14] <BigJohnT> I've had harleys and won't ride one
[00:05:19] <dmess> by x-mas
[00:05:58] <spasticteapot> BigJohnT: Honda: Beating Harley-Davidson at their own game since 1975.
[00:06:14] <BigJohnT> :)
[00:06:57] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/GW1500.jpg
[00:07:21] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/mctrailer.jpg
[00:08:08] <BigJohnT> dmess: I was born in King Salmon Island
[00:08:20] <BigJohnT> in on
[00:08:40] <BigJohnT> Alaska was a territory at the time
[00:09:47] <dmess> so youve seen the midnight sun... and know where home is
[00:10:41] <BigJohnT> yep
[00:10:51] <BigJohnT> seen the sun at midnight too
[00:12:58] <BigJohnT> used dog sleds when I was young didn't have snow machines then...
[00:13:28] <BigJohnT> spasticteapot: you ride
[00:14:09] <spasticteapot> A bicycle.
[00:14:20] <BigJohnT> that counts
[00:14:35] <BigJohnT> better than a harley
[00:14:35] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot loathes stupid people in huge SUVs.
[00:15:45] <BigJohnT> if you have the money to have alternate modes of transport you should use what is appropriate for the job
[00:16:54] <BigJohnT> ohhh dinner time is near I smell it
[00:19:52] <BigJohnT> dmess do people still use cross country skies?
[00:20:52] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot does from time to time.
[00:21:28] <BigJohnT> used to be my favorite way to explore
[00:23:17] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot is a wuss.
[00:25:01] <spasticteapot> Anyone here good with manual lathes?
[00:25:09] <spasticteapot> The metal variety?
[00:25:33] <fenn> what about em
[00:30:15] <BigJohnT> I have a crappy manual lathe :)
[00:31:14] <BigJohnT> hi fenn
[00:31:17] <fenn> hullo
[00:31:30] <fenn> how is the documentation treating you?
[00:31:42] <toastydeath> spasticteapot: i use them
[00:31:44] <BigJohnT> not bad
[00:31:46] <toastydeath> not for anything complicated though
[00:32:13] <BigJohnT> I still struggle with the formatting for the pdfs
[00:32:27] <fenn> the python docs look gorgeous, i hope jepler manages to overthrow the LyX tyranny
[00:32:55] <BigJohnT> is that with the asciidoc
[00:33:19] <fenn> restructured text, same thing really, just asciidoc has a catchy name
[00:33:59] <fenn> restructured text looks more complete/mature
[00:34:08] <spasticteapot> I need to figure out how to use the one I've got access to.
[00:34:51] <BigJohnT> if it can generate decent pdf's and html's it will be an improvement
[00:35:02] <toastydeath> spasticteapot:
[00:35:06] <toastydeath> what's the problem?
[00:35:29] <spasticteapot> toastydeath: I need to cut a hole in the end of a pipe cap.
[00:35:44] <fenn> spasticteapot: you should read "how to run a lathe" by south bend company, from your local library
[00:35:48] <spasticteapot> One of those really thin ones you use on plumbing.
[00:35:51] <toastydeath> spasticteapot: trepanning tool
[00:35:54] <toastydeath> and a plug?
[00:35:55] <spasticteapot> fenn: Sounds good.
[00:36:01] <spasticteapot> No plug.
[00:36:07] <toastydeath> no no
[00:36:11] <toastydeath> when you turn really thin stuff
[00:36:13] <toastydeath> you make a plug
[00:36:17] <fenn> actually i think there's a movie online somewhere
[00:36:20] <toastydeath> to fit the inside and provide some support
[00:36:22] <toastydeath> against deflection
[00:36:38] <spasticteapot> Oh.
[00:36:47] <toastydeath> because like when you chuck up something
[00:36:51] <spasticteapot> Maybe I could fill it with some sort of epoxy?
[00:36:51] <toastydeath> it deflects?
[00:37:01] <toastydeath> uh. yeah i guess you could?
[00:37:07] <spasticteapot> What would you use?
[00:37:23] <toastydeath> aluminum.
[00:37:33] <spasticteapot> It's copper for artsy-fartsy reasons.
[00:37:38] <fenn> * fenn guesses this isnt a high-precision project
[00:37:40] <toastydeath> no dangit
[00:37:42] <spasticteapot> Also, because you can buy them pre-shaped from a plumbing store.
[00:37:44] <toastydeath> i mean the plug
[00:37:48] <spasticteapot> Ooooh.
[00:37:55] <toastydeath> you turn a solid object
[00:38:01] <fenn> spasticteapot: i suggest not trying to start with copper
[00:38:02] <toastydeath> that will fit inside the thin, hollow object
[00:38:09] <fenn> especially not thin copper
[00:38:10] <spasticteapot> fenn: You would use?
[00:38:10] <toastydeath> so when it deforms, it doesn't have far to go
[00:38:31] <fenn> spasticteapot: brass or delrin are easy materials
[00:38:47] <spasticteapot> Brass is easier than copper?
[00:38:48] <fenn> brass tubing can be a little grabby like copper though
[00:39:00] <toastydeath> a copper pipe cap is not going to be a difficult thing to just trepan a slug out of
[00:39:47] <toastydeath> how big is the lathe you have access to, and what brand
[00:39:51] <fenn> you're making goggles right? do they make copper pipe that big?
[00:39:59] <spasticteapot> These are for headphones.
[00:40:08] <spasticteapot> I don't know the brand.
[00:40:18] <spasticteapot> It's held together with plywood, bolts, and a camera strap.
[00:40:21] <toastydeath> what envelope, is it tiny like a 6x12
[00:40:27] <fenn> uh.. the lathe?
[00:40:28] <spasticteapot> Great big thing.
[00:40:33] <spasticteapot> fenn: Yep.
[00:40:36] <spasticteapot> Looks ancient.
[00:40:40] <toastydeath> you're not going to have any difficulty with copper.
[00:40:54] <spasticteapot> toastydeath: All I need to do is get some copper stock.
[00:41:17] <spasticteapot> Ack, I mean aluminum stock.
[00:41:23] <toastydeath> look for bar drops
[00:41:28] <toastydeath> in the shop
[00:41:39] <toastydeath> odds and ends of material
[00:41:45] <spasticteapot> This is in the back of a jewelry shop.
[00:41:51] <toastydeath> i see
[00:41:55] <spasticteapot> Nobody knows how to use it.
[00:42:04] <toastydeath> then maybe a slug isn't the best plan.
[00:42:14] <toastydeath> but it is ideal.
[00:42:49] <toastydeath> the cutting tool you'll use for this looks like a 45 degree triangle.
[00:42:54] <toastydeath> sort of.
[00:43:17] <toastydeath> tryin' to get an image.
[00:43:26] <spasticteapot> I think I have one of those.
[00:43:45] <toastydeath> you have a trepanning tool for a lathe?
[00:43:48] <toastydeath> not for a drill press.
[00:43:50] <BigJohnT> fenn: do you have link for the restructured text
[00:43:54] <toastydeath> they are different.
[00:44:01] <toastydeath> http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/Ferrofab/MVC-009S-1.jpg
[00:44:28] <toastydeath> the three on the left are all lathe trepanning tools, the form is clearest on the commercial tool all the way over to the right.
[00:44:37] <toastydeath> a section of a circle.
[00:44:51] <spasticteapot> It's fitted to the lathe.
[00:45:15] <spasticteapot> Although it's not curved - it has a straight angle on it.
[00:45:15] <fenn> BigJohnT: seen http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html ?
[00:45:25] <toastydeath> spasticteapot: that's not a trepanning tool, that's just a regular turning tool.
[00:45:29] <spasticteapot> Oh.
[00:45:35] <BigJohnT> thanks fenn
[00:45:37] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot looks at the price of trepanning tools.
[00:45:40] <toastydeath> the curve means you can plunge straight into a face of a part.
[00:45:42] <toastydeath> you can grind one.
[00:45:49] <toastydeath> all you have to do is put the circular relief on the sides
[00:45:58] <fenn> BigJohnT: it's basically a wiki markup
[00:45:59] <toastydeath> so that the tool doesn't rub as you plunge into the face.
[00:46:17] <spasticteapot> Coolness.
[00:46:23] <toastydeath> but that's all there is to it
[00:46:26] <toastydeath> for what you want to do
[00:46:32] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT gets his glasses on to read it :)
[00:46:39] <toastydeath> a plug to make sure you have adaquate grip on the part, or it'll come out of the machie
[00:46:42] <toastydeath> machine
[00:46:44] <toastydeath> and a trepanning tool.
[00:47:08] <spasticteapot> I have an independent chuck, too.
[00:47:15] <spasticteapot> Centering that thing was impossible.
[00:47:18] <toastydeath> the chuck isn't the issue.
[00:47:28] <toastydeath> it's that there are individual points of pressure
[00:47:47] <toastydeath> and thin tube style stuff will deform and relieve the pressure
[00:47:53] <spasticteapot> Oh, I know that.
[00:47:56] <toastydeath> so when you start cutting it tears it out.
[00:47:57] <toastydeath> okay.
[00:48:02] <spasticteapot> I was hoping you knew how to center the chuck.
[00:48:04] <spasticteapot> :)
[00:48:05] <toastydeath> just makin' sure
[00:48:14] <toastydeath> oh, you need either a dial indicator or a dial test indicator
[00:48:17] <spasticteapot> I'm hoping to get away with using wood, though.
[00:48:17] <fenn> BigJohnT: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html
[00:49:06] <toastydeath> do you have an indicator of any kind, spastic?
[00:49:18] <spasticteapot> Nope.
[00:49:44] <toastydeath> then you're going to be really really hard pressed to be a total novice and get anything even remotely centered
[00:49:52] <spasticteapot> I think I need to get one.
[00:49:56] <spasticteapot> Or a concentric chuck.
[00:50:00] <toastydeath> do you have a three jaw chuck
[00:50:04] <spasticteapot> Four.
[00:50:09] <toastydeath> only a four?
[00:50:20] <spasticteapot> It's what came on it.
[00:50:30] <toastydeath> then you do need to get a dial indicator.
[00:50:38] <spasticteapot> Will do.
[00:50:49] <toastydeath> and a mag base.
[00:51:01] <toastydeath> you clamp the indicator on the base, and the base somewhere convenient on the machine
[00:51:03] <spasticteapot> Mag base?
[00:51:08] <toastydeath> magnetic base, sorry
[00:51:14] <fenn> for centering without an indicator i used to use a pencil, it makes marks on the side that is too close
[00:51:15] <spasticteapot> Makes sense.
[00:51:38] <toastydeath> fenn's method is how it used to be done, if you do it slowly and have paitience.
[00:53:09] <toastydeath> you spin the chuck, looking at the indicator values (or look at the pencil mark) to figure out which direction to move the jaws.
[00:53:32] <toastydeath> move the chuck so that the jaw is on the same side as the indicator, then spin it 180 to the other jaw.
[00:53:40] <toastydeath> then move both in the direction of the low side.
[00:53:47] <BigJohnT> spasticteapot: if you take your time you can use a stick to indicate with and get it within a few thousands with a four jaw chuck
[00:53:52] <spasticteapot> Cool.
[00:54:08] <toastydeath> the process is the same no matter what you use to determine the high side. Stick, chalk, or indicator.
[00:54:10] <spasticteapot> I'm hoping to become a jeweler - I won't need anything better than that.
[00:54:33] <fenn> you can also stick a drill chuck in the headstock
[00:56:39] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes back to reading about structured text
[00:58:43] <spasticteapot> Does anyone know where I might ask for scrap pieces of metal?
[00:58:54] <spasticteapot> I need little cut-offs of brass pipe especially.
[00:58:55] <BigJohnT> scrap yard
[00:59:45] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[00:59:50] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot looks for one.
[01:01:01] <spasticteapot> This is pretty close to what I'm looking to build:
[01:01:02] <spasticteapot> http://oldheadphones.com/crystal/gallery/telef.jpg
[01:02:06] <spasticteapot> The outer ring is going to be made out of some sort of wood.
[01:02:54] <fenn> not many places will use large diameter brass pipe
[01:03:20] <jmkasunich> and fewer will be giving away scrap these days
[01:03:29] <fenn> much better luck finding stainless or aluminum
[01:03:44] <spasticteapot> Brass = shiny.
[01:03:59] <spasticteapot> Apparently easy to work, too.
[01:04:03] <fenn> you could just buy it from onlinemetals.com
[01:04:39] <spasticteapot> That is expensive.
[01:04:48] <jmkasunich> oror metalexpress.net
[01:05:08] <jmkasunich> what size do you need? (dia and length)
[01:05:41] <spasticteapot> IFor the pipe?
[01:05:45] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:05:54] <spasticteapot> 1.25" to 3".
[01:06:01] <jmkasunich> thats quite a range
[01:06:05] <jmkasunich> how long?
[01:06:10] <spasticteapot> At least 1".
[01:06:39] <jmkasunich> ouch = $10 for a 1" piece
[01:07:10] <fenn> guh. default qty=0 is the stupidest thing ever
[01:07:41] <jmkasunich> you mean on metalexpress? there are 50 items there, you probably only want 1
[01:08:05] <fenn> yeah but if they're all length 0 then it shouldn't matter
[01:08:33] <fenn> and i clicked on the + sign next to the size i wanted
[01:10:11] <spasticteapot> On metalxpress, is the length in inches or feet?
[01:10:17] <jmkasunich> inches
[01:11:19] <spasticteapot> 5" for $17?
[01:11:21] <spasticteapot> :O
[01:11:28] <john_f> I have used speedy metals. http://www.speedymetals.com They are located a mile from my house. I think they will ship to your location
[01:11:40] <spasticteapot> I remember seeing 1.25" bar stock for $27/ft.
[01:11:56] <spasticteapot> Oh, wait.
[01:12:05] <spasticteapot> That's including shipping.
[01:12:13] <fenn> onlinemetals is way cheaper if you're only getting an inch
[01:13:31] <spasticteapot> onlinemetals, eh?
[01:13:43] <fenn> more than a few inches and it's about the same
[01:14:53] <jmkasunich> fenn - does online metals have service charges or other small-order gotchas?
[01:15:12] <jmkasunich> $2.53 for a 1" piece seems to be too good to cover their costs
[01:15:52] <jmkasunich> darn - no cast iron
[01:15:58] <jmkasunich> unless they hid it somewhere
[01:16:05] <fenn> apparently they dont have a cut fee, and i dont remember any gotchas except shipping when i ordered a long time ago
[01:16:42] <spasticteapot> metalexpress is cheaper than onlinemetals.
[01:16:47] <spasticteapot> Will look at FENN.
[01:18:15] <fenn> hm?
[01:18:29] <spasticteapot> Oops.
[01:19:29] <spasticteapot> Sorry.
[01:19:35] <spasticteapot> Thought you were another metals company.
[01:19:38] <fenn> no cast iron is kinda strange
[01:19:54] <fenn> i'm not a metal seller, i'm a metal hoarder :)
[01:20:03] <spasticteapot> Lawl.
[01:20:14] <spasticteapot> Are you sure you can't sell me a little brass?
[01:20:20] <fenn> i dont have any so big
[01:20:52] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[01:21:53] <jmkasunich> do you have access to flat sheet or strip? start with a 1" x (diameter * pi) strip and roll it into a circle
[01:22:17] <dmess> woo hoo got my variable speed card... from fla shipped from mexico ... AGAIN
[01:22:20] <spasticteapot> I don't have access to a way to roll it.
[01:22:27] <spasticteapot> dmess: Heh.
[01:22:40] <spasticteapot> People keep going on about those.
[01:23:00] <spasticteapot> Wouldn't it be easier to get a big 3-phase motor and a driver?
[01:23:07] <dmess> traces look good so far as ive checked
[01:23:30] <dmess> but i hav a VFD
[01:23:57] <dmess> and this should be the driver
[01:24:45] <dmess> 2x Songle 10A relays onboard
[01:26:49] <dmess> too noisy in my space
[02:14:11] <spasticteapot> I think that the lathe I was using at school is not set up properly.
[02:14:15] <spasticteapot> It's spinning much too slowly.
[02:14:28] <spasticteapot> The motor is only rated for 1HP - not a lot for a big lathe.
[02:14:40] <jmkasunich> how big is the lathe?
[02:16:50] <dmess> mine is 1/2 hp and it should onlyend up with a humm
[02:18:02] <spasticteapot> jmkasunich: Really big.
[02:18:15] <jmkasunich> how many tons does it weigh?
[02:18:23] <spasticteapot> Okay, not that big.
[02:18:33] <spasticteapot> I'd say at least 400-500 pounds, though.
[02:18:50] <jmkasunich> lathe size is measured in diameter x length of the largest possible workpiece
[02:19:05] <jmkasunich> diameter mostly
[02:19:25] <cradek> spasticteapot: maybe the back gear is engaged
[02:19:26] <jmkasunich> for example, if you say "south bend 9" lathe" people know what you are talking about
[02:19:33] <jmkasunich> if you say "big" they have no clue
[02:19:37] <spasticteapot> Back gear?
[02:19:49] <jmkasunich> some lathes have gears to reduce speed and increase torque
[02:19:50] <dmess> my little hardinge is 730lbs headstock and bed ONLY
[02:19:54] <spasticteapot> Length would be at least 25".
[02:20:09] <spasticteapot> Diameter I'm not so sure of.
[02:20:22] <jmkasunich> guess
[02:20:23] <spasticteapot> The chuck can hold maybe 6".
[02:20:26] <jmkasunich> ok
[02:20:42] <jmkasunich> I'd think for a lathe that size, 1HP is enough
[02:21:33] <jmkasunich> back gear (if that is the issue) can be engaged and disengaged easily
[02:21:42] <jmkasunich> you need the fine manual, or someone who knows that lathe
[02:21:48] <jmkasunich> is anyone at the school at all clueful?
[02:21:52] <spasticteapot> What is back gear?
[02:22:02] <spasticteapot> I might be able to get one of the shop guys to help.
[02:22:03] <jmkasunich> I answered that a minute ago
[02:22:09] <jmkasunich> some lathes have gears to reduce speed and increase torque
[02:22:22] <spasticteapot> Durr.
[02:22:25] <spasticteapot> I'll check it out.
[02:22:36] <spasticteapot> The problem is that these days everything is CAD.
[02:22:46] <spasticteapot> There's no "machine shop 101".
[02:27:35] <jmkasunich> spasticteapot: yes there is
[02:27:44] <jmkasunich> http://techtv.mit.edu/file/743
[02:29:05] <cradek> those are great
[02:39:08] <Chris_sub_1_> Hi! Should 'engrave-10.py' run in Axis with the .py filter added to my ini? I get a syntax error @ line 122. I ran the same script (except for a font path change) stand-alone on an XP box with no errors.
[02:39:49] <cradek> what do you mean syntax error?
[02:41:08] <SWPadnos> ?SN
[02:41:12] <SWPadnos> of course!
[02:41:29] <Chris_sub_1_> The error pops up in a 'filter failed' dialog. I just tried but I can't copy the message.
[02:49:34] <spasticteapot> I see some cheap "mini" or "hobbyist" lathes online.
[02:49:37] <spasticteapot> Are these worth buying?
[02:52:16] <jmkasunich> depends on what you want to machine
[02:52:33] <jmkasunich> IMO, you want the biggest lathe you can afford and have room for (within reason)
[02:52:48] <jmkasunich> size and weight = rigidity and stability = better work
[02:53:01] <jmkasunich> you can do smallish work on a large lathe, but can't do large work on a small lathe
[02:53:35] <jmkasunich> the one exceptiont to that is that small work requires higher spindle RPM, and a big lathe _might_ not have higher speeds
[02:57:09] <LawrenceG> Chris_sub_1_, hi.... I wrote engrave.... maybe I can help
[02:58:26] <Chris_sub_1_> As an aside, I recently read something interesting about War Production Board instructions for casting a concrete base for small South Bend lathes to greatly improve their accuracy (probably on www.practicalmachinist.com).
[03:00:14] <LawrenceG> Chris_sub_1_, what version of ubuntu are you running? also what is the result of "python --version" ?
[03:00:32] <Chris_sub_1_> LawrenceG - What I know about Python could fill, well, something really small. Any idea why the (I'm assuming...) interpreter would puke at 'class Character():'?
[03:02:12] <LawrenceG> I think the sysntax of the init functions somehow changed
[03:03:25] <LawrenceG> I am running python version Python 2.5.2 on Ubuntu 8.04
[03:04:29] <Chris_sub_1_> Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS
[03:04:56] <Chris_sub_1_> python --version didn't work.
[03:06:31] <LawrenceG> hm... definitely a python version problem.... someone else mentioned this but I never did hear about a fix
[03:07:02] <LawrenceG> jepler, are you around? or any python gurus?
[03:07:14] <Chris_sub_1_> The package manager has about a bazillion python* entries. What would I be looking for?
[03:07:54] <LawrenceG> you probably have python 2.4.x installed.... its a change from 2.4 to 2.5
[03:08:20] <LawrenceG> any chance you are upgrading to the latest LTS release soon?
[03:09:01] <jepler> it might be as easy as making this change (remove parens):
[03:09:01] <jepler> -class Character():
[03:09:01] <jepler> +class Character:
[03:09:08] <jepler> I didn't look closely at it though
[03:09:13] <Chris_sub_1_> But I *just* got my machine running after two years...sob... ;)
[03:09:36] <LawrenceG> let me try Jeffs suggestion
[03:10:20] <Chris_sub_1_> Hey, that worked! Cool!
[03:10:25] <LawrenceG> that fix seems to work here on 2.52
[03:10:41] <Chris_sub_1_> Thanks much.
[03:10:45] <LawrenceG> I will update verion on the wiki... Thanks Jeff
[03:11:25] <jepler> you're welcome
[03:11:26] <jepler> goodnight
[03:11:29] <Chris_sub_1_> Is there a driving reason for me to update to 8.04 yet?
[03:11:48] <LawrenceG> no... I still run it in the shop
[03:11:50] <jepler> Chris_sub_1_: not really, don't rock the boat if you're happy
[03:12:01] <jepler> never change a working system for no good reason
[03:12:50] <Chris_sub_1_> But I *am* an engineer. Isn't that reason enough? ;)
[03:13:54] <SWPadnos> ... *good* reason ...
[03:14:28] <Chris_sub_1_> I just got the newly-reground spindle re-installed in my Hurco KM3 and now pretty much have a functional machine (running emc2 w/m5i20).
[03:15:07] <LawrenceG> cool
[03:17:32] <Chris_sub_1_> Well, I'm off to play with some engraving...
[03:18:27] <LawrenceG> have fun.... I did a couple of panels.... very easy to paste multiple chunks of gcode into a file and use axis to check layout
[03:21:45] <Chris_sub_1_> Thanks for the code BTW. Very handy.
[03:23:23] <LawrenceG> fenn did the key font parsing code.... the fonts were a good find for engraving... ttt is also useful, but it uses the outlines of true type fonts
[03:37:46] <LawrenceG> I love quick fixes
[04:35:14] <JymmmEMC> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/about/no_text_law.htm
[12:21:13] <piasdom> will someone tell me where i can fine the headers and\or source for debain etch ?
[12:22:45] <archivist> see logs this was requested a few hours ago
[12:23:03] <archivist> logger_emc bookmark
[12:23:40] <archivist> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:23:40] <archivist> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-10-15.txt
[12:24:02] <piasdom> thanks archivist......
[12:27:24] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[12:38:33] <piasdom> nothing in that for etch :archivist
[12:39:03] <piasdom> i did ask yesterday..but kept freezing when i clicked on a link in here
[12:40:39] <SWPadnos> have you looked at the wiki page on installing EMC2?
[12:41:55] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[12:42:04] <piasdom> i don;t know how to install emc2...would LOVE to have 2
[12:42:13] <SWPadnos> copy and paste that link if clicking on it in IRC crashes :)
[12:42:34] <SWPadnos> well, you're asking about Etch - any particular reason to use that instead of Ubuntu?
[12:43:45] <piasdom> if i go to ubuntu..i'll have to write a kernel for emc...i can barely type in linux :)
[12:43:57] <SWPadnos> uh, what?
[12:44:23] <SWPadnos> so you have some specialized hardware that you have Etch set up for, and you don't want to make the same kind of modifications to a Ubuntu system?
[12:45:08] <piasdom> i have kunbutu and would prefer that then debian but i can't get the emc to work
[12:45:33] <piasdom> without writing or editing the kernel
[12:45:54] <SWPadnos> what goes wrong?
[12:46:11] <SWPadnos> (it sounds like there are other problems on this system, if clicking links in IRC crashes)
[12:47:06] <piasdom> SWPadnos: that just started yesterday...rebooted today and not a problem
[12:47:12] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[12:47:44] <SWPadnos> I saw some of the conversation go by yesterday, but I think it started with you asking how to get EMC2 working on a Debian system
[12:47:58] <SWPadnos> rather than starting by trying to figure out why Ubuntu doesn't work on your PC
[12:48:13] <piasdom> i have "NO" idea how to write a kernel or even FIND one in linux
[12:48:21] <SWPadnos> you don't need to do either
[12:48:38] <SWPadnos> unless you have a strange system with very special requirements
[12:48:41] <piasdom> i put kubuntu on here..but could get emc to work
[12:49:35] <SWPadnos> so you used the emc2 install script from linuxcnc.org, then rebooted into the RT kernel, and it didn't work?
[12:49:35] <piasdom> the mill and computer came from www.sherline.com....and they don't support ANYTHING but what the did
[12:49:53] <SWPadnos> sigh - yeah, I guess we need to talk to them about that
[12:50:13] <piasdom> SWPadnos: yes
[12:50:49] <piasdom> i even have the BDI for unbutu emc2..and that doesn't work
[12:51:03] <SWPadnos> there is no BDI with/for Ubuntu
[12:51:12] <SWPadnos> what is the PC?
[12:51:32] <piasdom> came with debian sarge
[12:52:04] <SWPadnos> processor, memory, video card ... ?
[12:52:10] <piasdom> i toled the linux man there the sarge was out dated...didn't know what sarge was
[12:52:39] <piasdom> SWPadnos: there a command to see that ?
[12:53:02] <SWPadnos> you could look at the case and tell me what brand it is :)
[12:53:19] <piasdom> it did come with a24 ram..we upped it to a gig
[12:53:30] <piasdom> sherline
[12:53:48] <piasdom> 156 ram
[12:53:53] <SWPadnos> 256? :)
[12:54:43] <piasdom> :)_
[12:55:30] <piasdom> so i have to try to upgrade as best i can with this..
[12:55:54] <piasdom> i'm try to install virtualbox so i can run winxp here
[12:56:12] <SWPadnos> so what happens when you try to boot the Ubuntu LiveCD?
[12:57:09] <piasdom> it installs fine
[12:57:19] <piasdom> well.............
[12:57:20] <SWPadnos> ok, how does EMC2 fail then?
[12:57:34] <piasdom> i do have a problem with the video
[12:57:58] <piasdom> the machine runs eradic
[12:58:26] <piasdom> jumpy no control
[12:58:38] <SWPadnos> so the PC runs OK and doesn't crash, but the lathe/mill acts funny?
[12:58:43] <jepler> a user has contributed these instructions for building everything from source on debian etch: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Etch_Compile_RTAI http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Etch_Compile_EMC2
[12:59:04] <SWPadnos> it sounds like the configuration wasn't right for your machine
[12:59:31] <piasdom> i know but have no idea how or what to change
[13:00:08] <piasdom> never been in hal and can't fine it to config...if i could config
[13:00:51] <SWPadnos> try stepconf. if you have information on how the Sherline box is wired and the step timing it needs that will be the easiest route
[13:01:31] <piasdom> i can try...but i'll need some help .........A LOT of help
[13:02:06] <piasdom> i have ubuntu 8.04 for emc2
[13:02:21] <SWPadnos> stepconf should be pretty easy to use
[13:02:43] <SWPadnos> we don't have information about the Sherline hardware though, those questions need to go to Sherline
[13:03:00] <piasdom> i think i have the pin wiring
[13:03:12] <piasdom> that what you mean ?
[13:03:17] <SWPadnos> yes
[13:03:20] <SWPadnos> and step timing
[13:03:46] <piasdom> i can ask...they may not give
[13:03:48] <SWPadnos> searching the web tells me that the step time is 6000, step space 1000, direction hold 24000 and direction setup 20000
[13:05:52] <piasdom> have no idea what all that is but i'm willing to try
[13:06:03] <piasdom> i wrote that down
[13:06:14] <SWPadnos> write it down, it'll become obvious at some point :)
[13:10:51] <piasdom> ok....here goes everything.....brb...lord willing(backed up everything)
[13:12:37] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: maybe you can remind rayh when he's around to check in the sherline sample configs
[13:12:45] <SWPadnos> that would be good
[13:12:49] <alex_joni> I think he started working on those.. but somehow they were forgotten
[13:14:33] <SWPadnos> I remember a conversion ... barely :)
[13:14:38] <SWPadnos> conversation that is
[13:17:58] <alex_joni> a conversion of thoughts and words
[13:18:06] <SWPadnos> to other words
[13:23:15] <alex_joni> and hopefully, eventually to actions
[13:23:46] <SWPadnos> nah. too tiring
[13:30:17] <alex_joni> doing nothing is also an action
[13:33:08] <SWPadnos> cool: http://www.grc.com/menudemo.htm
[13:36:57] <archivist> hmm that has to be read fully
[13:37:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:37:26] <SWPadnos> scalable, non-client-side-scripted menu system (CSS only, but usable with non-CSS browsers too)
[13:37:45] <alex_joni> nice
[13:39:02] <archivist> clever idea
[13:39:43] <SWPadnos> it even seems to work, though I can't tell for sure because FF3 scales images (it looks like the top menu items are images, based on how they're scaling)
[13:40:22] <alex_joni> looks good here on chrome
[13:43:07] <pierp> hi all, I need some hints about brushless motors
[13:43:36] <pierp> is it possible for emc to pilot them?
[13:43:47] <anonimasu> ofcourse
[13:43:50] <anonimasu> :)
[13:44:04] <anonimasu> pierp: but you need a drive that accepts a signal emc can provide to drive them
[13:44:08] <pierp> thanks :) (I ma totally new to brushless)
[13:44:34] <pierp> anonimasu: where could I find some more infos?
[13:44:39] <anonimasu> in the wiki I think :)
[13:44:42] <pierp> about electronics
[13:44:47] <anonimasu> oh, that I dont know
[13:44:49] <pierp> or examples
[13:44:57] <pierp> working examples
[13:44:59] <anonimasu> you planning on building your own drive for brushless motors?
[13:45:07] <anonimasu> err brushless servos?
[13:45:18] <pierp> if it is not too difficult
[13:45:24] <pierp> I would have a go
[13:45:31] <anonimasu> it's insanely difficult.
[13:45:34] <SWPadnos> good luck
[13:45:35] <pierp> etching is not a problem
[13:45:37] <SWPadnos> you'll need it
[13:45:43] <pierp> ok :(
[13:45:46] <anonimasu> forget about building them yourself..
[13:45:53] <pierp> ok then
[13:45:55] <anonimasu> :)
[13:46:07] <pierp> I was having a look at this
[13:46:11] <SWPadnos> unless you have experience designing/building a microsteopping stepper driver
[13:46:12] <pierp> on e-bay
[13:46:12] <anonimasu> if we are talking about AC servos(brushless servos), it's a beast.
[13:46:34] <pierp> http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120292021207
[13:46:38] <SWPadnos> brushless drives are only a bit more complex than microstepping stepper drives
[13:46:58] <pierp> it has a closed loop inside
[13:46:59] <pierp> ?
[13:47:18] <SWPadnos> it has hall sensors inside
[13:47:24] <pierp> here I read it has a hal sensor
[13:47:27] <SWPadnos> so the drive can tell how to commutate
[13:47:30] <anonimasu> no, it has a hall sensors to help with commutation
[13:47:52] <pierp> yes position to commutate and speed to I suppose
[13:47:58] <anonimasu> yes
[13:48:23] <pierp> then I would need a proper card to drive it
[13:48:33] <anonimasu> no, you need the proper driver
[13:48:47] <anonimasu> :)
[13:49:00] <anonimasu> (the card to drive the driver is what you would need for emc to talk to it)
[13:49:06] <pierp> anonimasu: you mean electronics on a board
[13:49:09] <pierp> ok then
[13:49:22] <anonimasu> I wouldnt buy that motor, I'd buy steppers
[13:49:34] <anonimasu> drives are cheaper and alot easier to come by
[13:49:58] <anonimasu> :)
[13:50:01] <pierp> anonimasu: why do you think it is not worth buying
[13:50:24] <anonimasu> also, how big is your machine?
[13:50:32] <anonimasu> or your planned machine :)
[13:50:39] <pierp> 30cmx40cm table
[13:50:50] <anonimasu> dremel?
[13:50:53] <pierp> the frame is ready
[13:51:06] <pierp> yes more or less
[13:51:33] <pierp> I was looking for a bit more powerful thing
[13:51:39] <anonimasu> what's your budget?
[13:51:57] <anonimasu> thoose motors are 20eur, and then you still need encoders to sense the position
[13:52:01] <pierp> now I have all apart from the motors and electronics
[13:52:23] <anonimasu> and they arent very cheap :)
[13:52:41] <anonimasu> (I'd say if you can go with servos, if you can afford it)
[13:52:49] <pierp> mmm I still need an encoder despite the hal sensor inside?
[13:52:52] <anonimasu> yes
[13:53:15] <pierp> ok then,
[13:53:25] <anonimasu> unless there's one inside too(But I cant read italian)
[13:54:27] <pierp> here it says brushless 90W motor with integrated Hall sensor
[13:54:54] <anonimasu> hm, well, then you would still have to add a encoder to it.
[13:55:17] <anonimasu> I need to leave for a bit
[13:55:17] <anonimasu> laters
[13:55:24] <pierp> anonimasu: thanks
[14:01:29] <pierp> so the integrated sensor in brushless is just to make the driver to spin it properly and not usable to control its position and speed
[14:03:29] <archivist> yes commutation, so they will be phases to the coils, and not x count for position
[14:03:38] <archivist> phased
[14:04:12] <pierp> that's why an ancoder is still needed
[14:04:35] <archivist> yes
[14:05:05] <pierp> ok thanks thing are getting clearer
[14:06:12] <pierp> I was wondering what the difference is between what they call a brushless motor for aeromodels and a brushless used as a servo
[14:07:05] <SWPadnos> direction reversals
[14:07:17] <SWPadnos> and acurate speed control
[14:07:20] <SWPadnos> accurate too
[14:08:07] <pierp> cause brushless motors for aeromodels juast have three wires coming out of
[14:08:28] <pierp> and I d not think they have a sensor inside
[14:08:43] <pierp> but perhaps I am mistaken
[14:10:12] <SWPadnos> probably true, I don't know much about them
[14:12:06] <archivist> even cheapo dc fans have a hall effect and a drive transistor to switch the coils
[14:12:12] <archivist> internally
[14:13:18] <pierp> archivist: I'll dismantle my small brushless motor and have a look inside :)
[14:14:34] <archivist> Ive been inside the fans to oil them, also floppy motors are hall effect and a driver
[14:16:08] <pierp> ok I'll have a look inside it
[14:18:55] <renesis> fans are pretty neat
[14:19:13] <renesis> hall sensor, some transistors besides the coils
[15:30:00] <piasdom> SWPadnos: well i got ubuntu installed and updated....mill not right....
[15:30:17] <SWPadnos> how did you configure ECM2?
[15:30:20] <SWPadnos> EMC2
[15:30:26] <piasdom> i set the setting you gave me in stepconf
[15:30:30] <piasdom> yes sir
[15:30:58] <piasdom> but i need to set my resolution first
[15:31:07] <SWPadnos> ok. it looks like the source of that information may have been wrong. they may have needed to change the polarity of the step outputs
[15:31:34] <piasdom> dpkg-reconfigure doesn't give me the option for resolutions
[15:31:44] <SWPadnos> for the screen?
[15:31:47] <piasdom> yes
[15:32:09] <piasdom> it's at 800x600
[15:32:15] <SWPadnos> oh, that resolution. I thought you needed to set the step resolutions for your mill :)
[15:32:18] <piasdom> no other chooses
[15:32:28] <piasdom> oh sorry
[15:32:33] <SWPadnos> no problem
[15:32:46] <SWPadnos> gotta run for a bit to have lunch with my wife. be back later
[15:32:51] <piasdom> k
[15:32:54] <piasdom> thanks agin
[15:33:04] <SWPadnos> check the wiki (and the web) for information on changing viodeo drivers and resolutions
[15:33:05] <SWPadnos> sure
[15:33:14] <piasdom> ok
[16:02:37] <piasdom> why is my screen bigger then my monitor ?
[16:19:55] <piasdom> i sould have said desktop bigger then my monitor
[16:51:52] <alex_joni> piasdom: probably set up that way
[16:52:07] <alex_joni> you might have more chance of an answer in #ubuntu than in here
[17:33:41] <piasdom> (in case someone answered) why is my desktop larger then my screen ?
[17:34:19] <SWPadnos> because the X Windows setup has larger "virtual desktop" than the number of pixels on the screen
[17:34:41] <SWPadnos> I think Ubuntu makes a virtual desktop of 1024x768 minimum, or your screen size if it's larger than that
[17:36:50] <piasdom> i have a 17' monitor
[17:37:26] <archivist> not monitor physical size but setting of X
[17:37:27] <piasdom> have to move the cursor to the screen edge tp move he desktop
[17:37:42] <piasdom> oh :)
[17:38:23] <piasdom> but i don't get an option to set resulotions in dpkg-reconfigure
[17:39:54] <piasdom> but i need to get the mill working...what do i need to search for to config stepconf ?
[17:40:08] <SWPadnos> roght-click on the Applications menu and select "edit menus"
[17:40:30] <SWPadnos> go to the "others" category and enable "screen resolution" or something like that
[17:40:59] <SWPadnos> that will cause a screen resolution picker to appear in the Applications->Other (or Others) menu
[17:41:27] <SWPadnos> you will only be able to choose resolutions that are supported by your current video driver, but you may be able to enter information about your monitor
[17:41:37] <SWPadnos> it seems likely to me that it's not being detected properly
[17:42:30] <piasdom> thanks SWPadnos...brb
[17:42:42] <SWPadnos> you don't need to exit to make those changes
[17:42:52] <SWPadnos> or you shouldn't anyway
[17:42:57] <piasdom> i know...was going to look around
[17:43:03] <SWPadnos> heh - have fun
[17:51:38] <spasticteapot> Anyone here know of a cheap X/Y table I could mount on a drill press?
[17:52:11] <fragalot> thingy
[17:52:19] <fragalot> what'stheirname >.>.. sherline?
[17:54:17] <fragalot> spasticteapot: http://www.sherline.com/5200pg.htm .. Dno if you can call that cheap,.. (I have no idea on prices :p)
[17:54:26] <piasdom> www.sherline.com
[17:54:31] <archivist> or epay
[17:54:56] <cradek> if you mean cheap as in quality, harbor freight has some
[17:55:08] <fragalot> lol
[17:55:56] <spasticteapot> I can live with low quality.
[17:56:08] <fragalot> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94276 then this is as cheap as you can get, i'd say
[17:56:23] <spasticteapot> That'll work.
[17:56:42] <cradek> it says "accurate" and "precision" right in the description
[17:56:45] <spasticteapot> Hurr hurr.
[17:56:48] <fragalot> and wood or plastic
[17:56:54] <fragalot> eg. try oak and it dies. :p
[17:56:54] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot isn't actually using this for anything very important.
[17:57:04] <spasticteapot> I keep having to tell people to use the punch on 20ga. and thinner metals.
[17:57:11] <spasticteapot> A drill just rips 'em apart.
[17:57:17] <cradek> "Every drill press becomes a milling machine with a Bitmoore Vise"
[17:57:20] <cradek> ummmmm no.
[17:57:23] <spasticteapot> Lawl.
[17:57:25] <fragalot> how is that thing going to help that?
[17:57:34] <cradek> that's just really not what a drill press is for. at all.
[17:57:36] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot is practically considering building his own mill at this point because he's poor.
[17:57:41] <fragalot> cradek: sure.. they just don't say what quality you'll get from it.
[17:57:49] <spasticteapot> My high school doesn't actually do much milling anymore, it seems.
[17:57:51] <fragalot> I bet you could do modelling wood (that light stuff)
[17:58:01] <spasticteapot> It's all CAD, CAD, and more CAD classes. And a 3-D printer.
[17:58:04] <fragalot> like, accurate within 2mm.... :p
[17:58:09] <archivist> spasticteapot, cheapest quality is refurb a scrap mill
[17:58:10] <fragalot> spasticteapot: 3D printer? that's epic.
[17:58:15] <spasticteapot> fragalot: Yah.
[17:58:19] <spasticteapot> Not high precision, though.
[17:58:25] <fragalot> so what :p they rule
[17:58:30] <spasticteapot> Eh.
[17:58:33] <fragalot> all they are for is rapid prototyping
[17:58:51] <spasticteapot> I might make something out of ABS (the material of choice), file it down a bit, and use it to make a mould for lost-wax casting.
[18:00:00] <spasticteapot> Does anyone know what those tools with the spring-attached points for centering a drill press are called?
[18:00:08] <fragalot> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39743 <-- is it me, or is that thing a tad useless?
[18:00:26] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot was actually looking at that earlier.
[18:00:56] <fragalot> spasticteapot: I'm trying to figure out how the hell you could drill something other than the position where it's fixed on
[18:01:05] <spasticteapot> Oh.
[18:01:18] <fragalot> * fragalot downloads the manual
[18:03:49] <archivist> fragalot, dont buy one.......
[18:04:35] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot would rather buy something used and broken.
[18:04:37] <fragalot> archivist: harborfreight is american...
[18:04:41] <spasticteapot> It usually works out okay.
[18:04:58] <fragalot> shipping would cost more than it would cost renting a cab to drive over there.... undersea.
[18:04:58] <spasticteapot> Just find a stonking great motor, some belts, a little grease.....
[18:05:16] <spasticteapot> Doesn't Sherline do some nice combo lathes and mills?
[18:05:33] <cradek> fragalot: you would attach the work to the little table and move it around with that
[18:05:34] <archivist> fragalot, I thing similar c**p is imported to eu
[18:05:57] <fragalot> archivist: Yes, it's called "brico plan-it"
[18:05:59] <cradek> fragalot: but yeah, probably not real useful, 2.5" cross slide travel
[18:06:08] <archivist> in the UK its Machine Mart or Clarke
[18:06:15] <fragalot> archivist: only difference is they charge equally as much for the crap as they do for makita.
[18:06:19] <spasticteapot> Does anyone know what those tools with the spring-attached points for centering a drill press are called?
[18:06:28] <spasticteapot> They showed one in the MIT video, and I forgot the name.
[18:06:48] <archivist> wobbler ?
[18:07:28] <fragalot> just push harder. ^_^
[18:10:16] <spasticteapot> Lawlzors.
[18:10:29] <spasticteapot> Would the MIT x-y machine be okay for centering stuff on a drill press?
[18:10:46] <spasticteapot> Also, I have a cheap-O drill press to which you might affix a power drill.
[18:10:55] <spasticteapot> Is this even worth trying to use?
[18:11:10] <fragalot> depends on what you're trying to do
[18:11:26] <fragalot> general drilling in soft materials should work
[18:11:35] <spasticteapot> I'm not drilling anything very thick.
[18:11:40] <spasticteapot> Mostly copper-based metals like brass.
[18:11:52] <archivist> spasticteapot, http://www.toolbank.com/c/C3879
[18:11:53] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot has 1337 soldering skillz.
[18:12:31] <cradek> spasticteapot: brass is easy to drill, copper is very difficult
[18:12:42] <spasticteapot> cradek: Really?
[18:12:46] <spasticteapot> What's the problem with brass?
[18:12:49] <spasticteapot> Er, copper?
[18:12:56] <archivist> breaking through in brass can be fun
[18:13:19] <archivist> we take off some rake
[18:13:22] <fragalot> breaking trough any type of sheetmetal can be fun.
[18:13:33] <cradek> spasticteapot: it's like drilling very pissed-off glue
[18:13:38] <fragalot> * fragalot knows that all too well.. *shows scar on left wrist*
[18:13:56] <archivist> * archivist laughs at scar
[18:14:44] <spasticteapot> cradek: Really?
[18:14:49] <spasticteapot> I haven't had any problems with it.
[18:15:04] <spasticteapot> Just drill a pilot hole and use a shitload of 3-in-1 oil as lubricant.
[18:15:29] <spasticteapot> Also, I cannot find any tool called a "wobbler".
[18:15:47] <cradek> spasticteapot: try "edgefinder"?
[18:16:01] <spasticteapot> I presume you've seen one before - it's got a shaft that fits in a drill press, and a separate pointed head, attached by a spring, that you line up with the shaft.
[18:16:18] <mas3773> hi, I've got a question about the emc2 install...are there any gotchas with the bios options that need to be set up? My computer is not liking the RTAI kernel and I'm trying to figure out if I've missed something...might be easier to /msg me to keep it out of the copper fun =P
[18:16:20] <spasticteapot> Ah. a WIGGLER.
[18:16:29] <fragalot> normally if you have a decent drill + drillpress, just by pushing it down you center it o.0
[18:16:44] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot hasn't got one of those.
[18:16:45] <cradek> mas3773: describe "not liking"
[18:16:46] <spasticteapot> :P
[18:17:00] <spasticteapot> Anyway....why is copper so hard?
[18:17:01] <fragalot> spasticteapot: elbow grease :p
[18:17:06] <spasticteapot> It's a very soft metal, especially when annealed.
[18:17:08] <fragalot> spasticteapot: copper is sticky
[18:17:30] <fragalot> like how cradek described it.. "pissed off glue"
[18:17:34] <spasticteapot> Oh.
[18:17:38] <spasticteapot> So, lots of oil?
[18:17:53] <SWPadnos> lots of low speed
[18:18:03] <fragalot> correct speeds help.
[18:18:05] <SWPadnos> and good evacuation of chips
[18:18:17] <spasticteapot> Oh.
[18:18:22] <spasticteapot> I drill effing slowly anyway.
[18:18:26] <spasticteapot> We have crappy drillbits.
[18:19:14] <spasticteapot> I found one of those gizmos you use to center things on a lathe.
[18:19:15] <piasdom> how do i stop having to indentify my nick everytime ?
[18:19:33] <spasticteapot> It's got a little pin that sticks out from a dial, and measures the distance that the pin extends.
[18:19:36] <SWPadnos> stop logging off and back on all the time
[18:19:38] <spasticteapot> It's dirt cheap - $17.
[18:19:43] <spasticteapot> piasdom: depends on client.
[18:19:51] <piasdom> hahahhahahhaha that'll work
[18:20:05] <piasdom> thanks spastic
[18:20:22] <spasticteapot> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/17322?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=froog
[18:20:29] <piasdom> had to reboot
[18:20:32] <spasticteapot> Is this too crappy to use?
[18:20:37] <fragalot> piasdom: depends on your client
[18:21:01] <piasdom> don't know my client fragalot
[18:21:05] <fragalot> spasticteapot: now that is cheap
[18:21:09] <spasticteapot> Yep.
[18:21:11] <fragalot> piasdom: what do you use for IRC?
[18:21:24] <spasticteapot> xcha, mIRC, pidgin, trillian, ?
[18:21:25] <fragalot> spasticteapot: not sure how that helps centering, but it sure is usefull to have
[18:21:25] <piasdom> ksirc
[18:21:34] <spasticteapot> Try "#ksirc"
[18:21:46] <piasdom> no one there
[18:21:49] <spasticteapot> dang.
[18:21:52] <spasticteapot> #linux?
[18:21:53] <fragalot> piasdom: can you set a server password?
[18:21:55] <piasdom> k
[18:21:58] <fragalot> if you can, set your nickserv password in that field.
[18:22:00] <cradek> spasticteapot: what are you trying to do exactly?
[18:22:28] <piasdom> don't know how but i can be root
[18:22:28] <spasticteapot> cradek: Cut copper pipe REALLY precisely.
[18:22:35] <fragalot> should be in your connections menu,.. I know you can give it if you create a new server, but dno if you can edit an existing one
[18:22:37] <fragalot> piasdom: ^
[18:22:49] <spasticteapot> This isn't exactly fancy machining.
[18:22:52] <spasticteapot> :)
[18:22:58] <fragalot> spasticteapot: cut copper pipe,.. on a drillpress? :p
[18:22:59] <piasdom> trying to stop indentifing my nick everytime i come here
[18:23:03] <spasticteapot> fragalot: Lathe.
[18:23:04] <cradek> cut how? cut off? drill into? cut lengthwise
[18:23:05] <cradek> ?
[18:23:08] <fragalot> spasticteapot: ah
[18:23:11] <spasticteapot> :)
[18:23:18] <fragalot> that 'l work :p
[18:23:32] <spasticteapot> I'd also like to cut discs out of aluminum.
[18:23:35] <fragalot> I like the ribbon saw (whatever it's called) with barfeeder on it at work
[18:23:40] <spasticteapot> bandsaw?
[18:23:44] <fragalot> that's it p
[18:24:13] <spasticteapot> :)
[18:24:36] <spasticteapot> Should I buy lathe cutting bits from Harbor Frieght, Home Despot, or online?
[18:25:10] <spasticteapot> Also, has anyone here built a steam engine?
[18:25:32] <fragalot> harbor freight is fine, if you only use it once and don't expect much. :p
[18:25:34] <cradek> spasticteapot: I got some little M2 HSS bits from HF and they are fine
[18:25:38] <jepler> I'd be surprised to hear that home depot has lathe tooling
[18:25:42] <cradek> you'll have to grind them of course
[18:25:42] <piasdom> well,i can get to that later..i need help config setpconf to get this mill running
[18:25:46] <fragalot> spasticteapot: I have, but it lasted for exactly 2 seconds.... (made it in plastic XD)
[18:25:58] <cradek> the imported cemented carbide tools are probably the same everywhere
[18:26:42] <spasticteapot> fragalot: Niiiice.
[18:26:49] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot wants to make a toy steam engine.
[18:26:58] <spasticteapot> I don't actually expect it to look like one, though.
[18:27:02] <piasdom> what do i look for setting to my stepper motors ?
[18:27:10] <piasdom> online i mean
[18:27:27] <fragalot> piasdom: trial & error is kindof what i'd do :p
[18:27:32] <piasdom> k
[18:27:34] <piasdom> brb
[18:27:36] <fragalot> start slow, speed it up till you see it fails.
[18:28:07] <piasdom> it don't work at all right now and i don't know what to change to what
[18:28:22] <fragalot> I see. *bails out*
[18:28:30] <spasticteapot> What makes good cheap cutting fluid?
[18:28:35] <fragalot> I still don't have my parallel cable, so i can't play arround yet
[18:28:38] <spasticteapot> I've been using generic "machine grease".
[18:28:57] <fragalot> spasticteapot: that depends on what you're cutting :p
[18:29:09] <spasticteapot> Copper, brass, maybe aluminum and steel.
[18:29:40] <fragalot> aluminium would be petroleum, for the rest I don't have special reccommendations
[18:30:42] <spasticteapot> Petroleum?
[18:30:45] <spasticteapot> Like crude oil?
[18:31:01] <archivist> parafin
[18:31:09] <spasticteapot> Huh.
[18:31:17] <fragalot> a tad more refined than what shoots out of the ground :p
[18:31:17] <archivist> kerosene over there
[18:31:33] <SWPadnos> http://www.tapmagic.com/TMaluminum.htm
[18:31:38] <fragalot> I use lighter oil,.. for those outdoor torches thingies
[18:31:53] <spasticteapot> Isn't kerosene kind of flammable?
[18:31:58] <SWPadnos> anything that ignites with a spark seems like a bad idea to me
[18:32:05] <fragalot> spasticteapot: tad more than diesel, but,.. no, not really
[18:32:08] <SWPadnos> kerosene is actually a bit difficult to ignite
[18:32:29] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[18:32:36] <fragalot> I haven't managed to set diesel or kerosine, or even the lamp oil I use on fire by just pouring it out
[18:32:53] <fragalot> if you soak some cloth in it, or spread it, then it works
[18:33:25] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[18:33:28] <spasticteapot> Kerosene it is.
[18:33:34] <spasticteapot> At least it's cheap.
[18:33:44] <fragalot> I wouldn't even know where the F*ck to get kerosine
[18:33:56] <fragalot> (spelling ==> belgian spelling of kerosine)
[18:34:00] <fragalot> sene,.. whatever
[18:34:02] <spasticteapot> Home Depot sells it.
[18:34:09] <spasticteapot> Also, lAlso, lamp oil.
[18:34:20] <spasticteapot> And, when all else fails...there's Farm & Fleet.
[18:34:23] <fragalot> lamp oil is kerosine?
[18:34:28] <spasticteapot> No.
[18:34:32] <fragalot> thought so :p
[18:34:42] <spasticteapot> But you suggested it.
[18:35:06] <fragalot> I said that lamp oil works too
[18:35:19] <spasticteapot> :)
[18:35:30] <fragalot> quit confusing me.
[18:35:53] <spasticteapot> Sorry.
[18:38:38] <piasdom> ok..doesw this mean anything..800 step per rev...2am bipolar...16000 steps/inch..... .050 leadscrew
[18:39:07] <piasdom> really don't know what i'm looking for
[18:41:18] <piasdom> what's a setp time ?.........800 step per rev ?
[18:41:53] <piasdom> setp = step
[18:41:57] <fragalot> 800step/rev means it takes 800 step signals to do one full turn. (eg. since you have a .050 lead screw, 800 step signals = .050" moved)
[18:42:08] <fragalot> step time (I think) is the time it takes for the motor to do one step
[18:42:23] <piasdom> o great
[18:42:28] <fragalot> the steps per rev depends on the motor
[18:42:39] <fragalot> the ones I use are 400, but i run them halfstep, so it's 800.
[18:42:59] <piasdom> what's 16000 step/inch that ?
[18:43:20] <fragalot> it takes 16000 steps to move one inch
[18:43:26] <piasdom> yes
[18:43:28] <fragalot> that depends on the steps / rev, and the leadscrew
[18:43:38] <piasdom> lead is .050
[18:43:42] <archivist> which is 20 revs of leadscrew
[18:43:55] <piasdom> and 800 per rev
[18:43:57] <fragalot> which means 20 * 800
[18:44:17] <piasdom> so i use 20 and 800 ?
[18:44:45] <fragalot> or you just leave it alone?
[18:44:58] <piasdom> steptime is at 5000
[18:44:59] <fragalot> what is the problem you are having right now with your machine? you said it didn't work right?
[18:45:08] <fragalot> if it is missing steps, you might want to try to increase your step time
[18:45:27] <piasdom> i just installed ubuntu from debian kde
[18:45:56] <fragalot> good for you, i've installed Gentoo from puppy linux.
[18:45:57] <fragalot> :p
[18:46:00] <piasdom> i'm try to upgrade to ubuntu..but can't if i can't get the miil working
[18:46:51] <fragalot> Wouldn't call it an "upgrade", but meh :p
[18:46:54] <piasdom> i never configured this before
[18:47:09] <piasdom> i don't know...just like this better :)
[18:47:31] <piasdom> my sound actually works here :)
[18:48:00] <fragalot> :D
[18:48:02] <piasdom> my video is a pain right now..but i can see
[18:48:25] <piasdom> i just need help configuring this mill
[18:48:49] <piasdom> don't know hwta step time or step space are
[18:49:10] <fragalot> step time is the time it takes to do one step,.. the higher the value, the slower it is
[18:49:29] <fragalot> the step space is the space it moves by doing one step I think... (not sure about that one though)
[18:49:53] <piasdom> well that'll get me going
[18:49:53] <alex_joni> nope
[18:49:59] <piasdom> great :)
[18:50:03] <alex_joni> step space is the needed time between steps
[18:50:18] <jepler> step&direction timing diagram: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_rtcomps.html#sub:Stepgen-Step-Types
[18:50:21] <alex_joni> and step time is the length a step pulse needs to be
[18:50:36] <jepler> step length and so on are items that should come from the datasheet of your stepper motor drivers
[18:51:17] <piasdom> i'll go look for that...no spec sheet on those
[18:52:15] <jepler> you have to have the right number. there is no number that works with every possible stepper motor driver without compromising performance.
[18:55:32] <spasticteapot> Dumb question of the day:
[18:55:43] <spasticteapot> Can a milling machine be effectively used as a drill press?
[18:56:14] <archivist> some can
[18:56:35] <archivist> but then they are often poor mills
[18:56:46] <jepler> it's fairly common on CNC machines to drill holes. There are a lot of "canned cycles" in gcode for performing the motions associated with drilling (G81 and so on)
[18:57:03] <cradek> a milling machine makes a very good drill press
[18:57:13] <jepler> it's true that a specific CNC machine might be more or less well suited to drilling holes as opposed to contouring or whatever
[18:57:30] <cradek> manual bridgeports have a quill that you can run with a handle that works like the one on a drill press.
[18:57:31] <spasticteapot> archivist: Why would a milling machine be a poor drill press?
[18:57:43] <cradek> archivist: I think you misread the question
[18:57:52] <spasticteapot> I thought that they had a quill that was much, much heavier than a drill press.
[18:58:02] <cradek> they do
[18:58:23] <archivist> my comment was at this sort http://www.warco.co.uk/shop.asp?catid=40&ProdId=124
[18:59:07] <archivist> strong drill press, flimsy mill
[18:59:43] <spasticteapot> But a mini-Sherline mill would be alright for both?
[19:00:12] <archivist> for small work yes
[19:01:01] <archivist> I tried one at a show once and seemed rigid for its size
[19:01:10] <spasticteapot> They're very popular.
[19:01:40] <cradek> they are pretty nice. the lathe is quite good for its size. the mill not quite so nice, but that's because milling is harder
[19:02:47] <archivist> spasticteapot, Im used to solid machines, so can be harsh on stuff for the home user
[19:03:01] <spasticteapot> Sounds like I need to bribe someone at the university.
[19:03:03] <spasticteapot> :)
[19:03:38] <spasticteapot> It sounds like it would be much easier to make things out of aluminum and copper-plate them than make them out of actual copper.
[19:03:43] <spasticteapot> A lot cheaper, too.
[19:03:49] <spasticteapot> How well can you polish aluminum?
[19:04:17] <archivist> very shiny, they use ally for mirrors
[19:04:37] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[19:04:48] <spasticteapot> I know polishing pretty well.
[19:05:04] <spasticteapot> Just get a buffing wheel, some rouge and white diamond, and patience.
[19:05:33] <fragalot> migrant workers work well too
[19:05:33] <fragalot> :p
[19:05:39] <archivist> rounded edges :) do it properly
[19:06:04] <spasticteapot> archivist: I was actually thinking of just turning the lathe up to its highest speed, and sanding the metal.
[19:06:58] <archivist> spasticteapot, just go up the grades of wet and dry, dont miss steps
[19:07:31] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot likes buffing wheels.
[19:07:42] <spasticteapot> You polish your way, I'll polish mine. :)
[19:07:53] <archivist> cast iron polished http://www.archivist.info/collection/showresult.php?srcdata=title&srcprog=searchv10.php&searchv4page=1&errlev=0&searchstr=pendulum&srcdata=title&srcprog=searchv10.php&Type=PD&Accn_no=5697&dir=2006_09_07_pendulum&file=P9072701.JPG&subject=14976
[19:08:34] <archivist> boss buffs here
[19:09:06] <fragalot> west wall of my house is partially polished inox
[19:09:16] <fragalot> especially fun for cars on the road. ^_^
[19:09:53] <spasticteapot> Heh.
[19:10:03] <spasticteapot> What kind of bandsaw blade shoul I use for cutting copper and silver?
[19:10:11] <spasticteapot> The one we've got takes epochs.
[19:10:38] <archivist> a sharper one
[19:10:45] <spasticteapot> Any particular type/
[19:10:46] <spasticteapot> Brand?
[19:11:19] <archivist> no, right tpi for material and thickness
[19:11:36] <archivist> and lube for some material types
[19:11:58] <spasticteapot> teeth per inch?
[19:12:25] <archivist> yes
[19:12:35] <spasticteapot> We also have some smaller saws.
[19:12:37] <spasticteapot> Jigsaws?
[19:12:45] <spasticteapot> Little reciprocating things....
[19:13:04] <archivist> we use them here for brass sheet
[19:13:50] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot is rubbish at cutting things freehand.
[19:20:53] <spasticteapot> What's the right speed for cutting copper and silver on a bandsaw?
[19:21:36] <alex_joni> 299 792 458 m / s
[19:22:10] <spasticteapot> ?
[19:22:13] <archivist> using a laser is cheating
[19:22:27] <spasticteapot> That's a pretty wide range.
[19:23:04] <spasticteapot> 299 m/s ~= 100 ft/s.
[19:23:17] <SWPadnos> 1000
[19:23:49] <spasticteapot> Oops.
[19:23:52] <spasticteapot> Forgot a zero.
[19:23:54] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot is home sick.
[19:24:23] <alex_joni> I did mean 300M m/s
[19:24:29] <alex_joni> roughly 600M mph
[19:27:33] <fragalot> alex_joni: that's quite speedy to go trough copper
[19:27:43] <fragalot> even a laser wouldn't go trough copper that fast :p
[19:28:01] <spasticteapot> Won't a laser not cut copper properly due to heat dispersion?
[19:28:04] <spasticteapot> I know they won't work well on brass.
[19:30:13] <alex_joni> fragalot: it was supposed to be a joke :/
[19:31:11] <fragalot> alex_joni: jokes are only funny when they obey the laws of physics
[19:31:12] <fragalot> :p
[19:31:27] <fragalot> spasticteapot: they might not work well, but i'm sure it 'l get trough eventually
[19:31:27] <piasdom> ok..i got some setting that seem to work but when i do manual command i get joint 0 and 2 on limit switch error :(
[19:31:52] <fragalot> spasticteapot: if it can cut diamond, it can cut anything.
[19:32:03] <fragalot> (diamond disperses heat better than anything I know of)
[19:32:15] <fragalot> not to mention it's transparent which is another challenge
[19:32:34] <fragalot> piasdom: that means that it has reached the end,.. or that you configured that wrong (or not connected it)
[19:32:47] <fragalot> Now,.. I'm off to bed. gnite!
[19:32:54] <piasdom> then i did something wrong
[19:33:01] <piasdom> nite fragalot
[19:34:04] <piasdom> so what is joint 0 and joint 1 ?
[19:37:01] <piasdom> is that x and y axis ?
[19:37:12] <cradek> on many machines, yes
[19:37:29] <piasdom> thanks cradek
[19:37:34] <piasdom> let me look
[20:28:24] <archivist> * archivist hugs gmail, I see cradeks reply while typing a reply so I can check for duplication
[21:42:36] <dmess> hi all
[21:43:20] <MASEngr> Hi everyone. Is there a list of compatible (or non-compatible) linear encoders?
[21:44:21] <MASEngr> The old trusty Anilam A10 has failed, and can't be replaced. I'm looking at two cheaper ones, but they have proprietary interfaces (sinusoidal, most likely) compared to a pulse output.
[21:45:05] <MASEngr> The two are a Mitutoyo AT715 and a Spherosyn.
[21:45:33] <cradek> the few (older) glass scales I've worked with just give quadrature... maybe you could pick up some old stuff.
[21:47:07] <MASEngr> I could indeed, but with everyone sitting around, looking between me and the mill, I'm not sure if I have the time to devote to finding some old gear of unknown usefulness.
[21:47:35] <cradek> heh, I understand
[21:48:11] <cradek> no encoders on the motors?
[21:48:21] <MASEngr> But yes, I'm sorry, I did mean that it's a quadrature output.
[21:49:00] <MASEngr> No, there's no encoder on the output. I've got a rotary encoder on the shelf, but the machinists don't want that - it'll have a backlash.
[21:49:21] <MASEngr> Oh, man, I meant that there's no encoder on the motor.
[21:49:41] <MASEngr> Bad typing day.
[21:50:52] <MASEngr> One of the channels from the Anilam scale is simply dead. An "autopsy" showed that the COD was a huge amount of detruis in the scale.
[21:52:21] <MASEngr> But obviously, I don't want to spend $500 - $1000 on a new scale to find out that it won't work with EMC2.
[21:52:51] <MASEngr> I can't get a new Anilam to simply replace the old unit; it's totally obsolete.
[21:53:36] <cradek> I assume you couldn't spot a simple way to fix it...
[21:53:47] <cradek> some really old ones even have light bulbs
[21:54:04] <MASEngr> YOu know, I just assumed it was LED.
[21:54:38] <cradek> gotta run, bbl
[21:59:32] <MASEngr> Ah, nuts. It's either totally broken or it's outside of the visible spectrum.
[21:59:53] <fenn> shorted with a chip maybe?
[22:00:13] <fenn> can you see actual electronic components or is it just some big plastic blob?
[22:01:34] <MASEngr> It's your typical LED-style resinous blob for the encoder lights; I can see the components with ease. I could replace any of them without too much trouble, assuming I could get the part.
[22:02:56] <archivist> check forward voltages accross the two leds
[22:02:58] <fenn> measure the resistance and/or voltage drop of the diode to see if it's busted
[22:10:29] <MASEngr> Uh, yeah. They're all at 1.22V across the lights.
[22:11:23] <MASEngr> Which seems all right.
[22:11:31] <archivist> then check optos..... and cable
[22:11:46] <archivist> and shite in the way of the light
[22:12:23] <MASEngr> The cable's fine. Swapping out to another encoder works fine.
[22:12:36] <archivist> ok
[22:13:02] <MASEngr> The other encoder is the 14" Y axis, so it can't stay swapped.
[22:13:20] <archivist> thats also checked inputs I assume by the swap
[22:18:43] <MASEngr> Huh, it's now worse. I wouldn't have thought that possible, but there you go.
[22:19:37] <archivist> while open you will have light polution to the optos
[22:20:41] <MASEngr> I put it back together, but both sides are dead.
[22:21:00] <MASEngr> It does explain the intermittent joint 0 following errors we've been having...
[22:24:02] <MASEngr> Anyway, the help I was looking for today was to see if certain other linear encoders would work with EMC2.
[22:24:39] <MASEngr> Is there a hardware compatibility list?
[22:46:40] <cradek> MASEngr: IMO you may be asking the wrong question - the question to ask is which linear encoders output quadrature (and index if you need it). The answer will be found on manufacturers' sites, not ours
[22:47:02] <cradek> the vast majority of people use rotary encoders with emc - I bet there just aren't many scales in use
[22:48:35] <toastydeath_> scales are pricey.
[22:49:51] <MASEngr> Good point, cradek.
[22:49:54] <spasticteapot> Is there any good CAD software for Linux?
[22:50:04] <spasticteapot> Let me rephrase that - easy-to-use cad software for linux?
[22:50:04] <MASEngr> Thanks for the help.
[23:01:55] <toastydeath_> spasticteapot: qcad
[23:02:39] <toastydeath_> pro/e, and I believe catia, have linux versions
[23:03:35] <spasticteapot> Qcad sounds interesting.
[23:03:36] <toastydeath_> but they are both very expensive, and difficult to use
[23:04:13] <spasticteapot> Hard to argue with Qcad's pricetag.
[23:04:17] <cradek> fenn: what's up with fennetic.net?
[23:04:25] <toastydeath_> It seems to be very autocad similar
[23:11:49] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot does not know a damn thing about CAD.
[23:11:54] <toastydeath_> but it does not have cam
[23:12:07] <toastydeath_> nor is it solid
[23:12:26] <toastydeath_> but still very useful
[23:23:10] <fenn> cradek: is it not working? i just switched DNS registrars
[23:23:18] <cradek> nope
[23:23:56] <fenn> aw dammit they put their stupid park page on it
[23:23:56] <cradek> I just see godaddy ads
[23:25:06] <fenn> this worked fine when i did exactly the same process with fennetic.com
[23:25:20] <fenn> er, not
[23:25:41] <fenn> anyway fenn.dyndns.org should work the smae
[23:26:03] <cradek> ok
[23:26:06] <cradek> thanks
[23:28:26] <dmess> Catia... on linux??
[23:28:53] <dmess> where??
[23:29:49] <cradek> fenn: I'm using cxf2cnc.py to make a nametag for my cat who keeps losing his collar. It's $10 at the pet store to have their machine engrave one and it's starting to be ridiculous...
[23:30:21] <cradek> fenn: I'd use truetype-tracer except the whole program has to fit in 100 feet of RAM :-)
[23:30:36] <cradek> so a very simple font is called for.
[23:30:49] <fenn> i see. normal.cxf is pretty simple
[23:31:05] <cradek> the defualt (roman?) seems fine
[23:31:56] <cradek> and thankfully, no arcs that I'd have to doctor
[23:34:16] <cradek> yay, 7995 bytes
[23:34:20] <cradek> easy fit
[23:35:30] <cradek> I'm going to try my homemade drag engraver...
[23:37:00] <fenn> you could engrave a PCB and put a radio transmitter on it
[23:37:03] <spasticteapot> Drag engraver?
[23:37:04] <spasticteapot> Pics?
[23:38:07] <cradek> spasticteapot: I'll take one for you a bit later - it's a simple spring loaded thing
[23:43:45] <JymmmEMC> cradek: drag ENGRAVER? Dont ya mean drag knife (as in for cutting vinyl sheet)
[23:47:09] <LawrenceG> like a spring loaded diamond scriber