#emc | Logs for 2008-10-14

[00:00:04] <SWPadnos> I bet it's 3.3/5V actually
[00:00:09] <coden4life> o
[00:00:14] <SWPadnos> just the pins from the microcontroller, no level shifting
[00:00:25] <SWPadnos> (at least I don't see any 232 chips on mine)
[00:00:56] <coden4life> maybe I should look a little closer at the datasheet
[00:01:21] <coden4life> or maybe I can wire something else up from some things lying around here
[00:01:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:01:30] <SWPadnos> all you need is a max232
[00:01:34] <SWPadnos> or similar
[00:01:38] <coden4life> that is what I got
[00:02:11] <SWPadnos> no problem then. most of the max232 variants only need like 5 caps
[00:02:16] <coden4life> from a DRO a place I was working at tossed out... think the power supply when bad ... it has 2 max chip in em
[00:02:23] <SWPadnos> all 0.1 or 1 uF (I don't remember)
[00:02:47] <SWPadnos> well, you'll want to be sure they have internal voltage boosters
[00:02:50] <nopmop> you guys created linuxcnc.org btw?
[00:03:07] <coden4life> not I
[00:03:09] <SWPadnos> uh, yes. for some values of "you guys"
[00:03:23] <nopmop> heh, pardon SWPadnos
[00:03:30] <nopmop> alright. i was just lookin at it
[00:03:34] <nopmop> it's great :)
[00:03:37] <SWPadnos> cool
[00:03:46] <SWPadnos> the website or the CNC psoftwrae?
[00:03:48] <SWPadnos> -p
[00:03:52] <SWPadnos> argh
[00:03:53] <nopmop> the prog
[00:03:54] <SWPadnos> software
[00:03:55] <SWPadnos> cool
[00:03:57] <nopmop> website is not so great :)
[00:04:00] <nopmop> but it's ok
[00:04:06] <SWPadnos> thatcalled EMC2 actually :)
[00:04:19] <SWPadnos> ok - if you have specific suggestions, we'd be happy to hear the
[00:04:21] <SWPadnos> m
[00:04:22] <nopmop> just looking at it now :)
[00:04:28] <SWPadnos> and ignore them if they require flash :P
[00:04:51] <nopmop> heh
[00:05:10] <nopmop> i wouldn't recommend anything flash based.
[00:05:25] <SWPadnos> good for you!
[00:05:26] <coden4life> the first stepper I controlled was with the 2003 chip using debug it sucked compared to the using c and gtk until I quit rollen my own and found EMC2
[00:06:03] <SWPadnos> 2003. don't know that one
[00:06:18] <coden4life> unl2003 I believe
[00:06:22] <nopmop> maybe another CMS. ...a wiki...a trac...or something
[00:06:25] <SWPadnos> oh, ULN2003
[00:06:32] <coden4life> darilington arrey
[00:06:37] <SWPadnos> wiki.linuxcnc.org has the wiki
[00:06:44] <SWPadnos> yep, I know it now
[00:06:53] <nopmop> SWPadnos: okie
[00:06:55] <SWPadnos> I assumed it was a processor or something ;)
[00:07:47] <coden4life> now I am looking into the EMC2 code and ways I can help the open source machining community
[00:08:18] <fenn> nopmop: where did you expect the link to a wiki to be? (so i can put it there)
[00:09:01] <coden4life> I am not bold enough to join the developers channel yet lol
[00:09:12] <nopmop> fenn: perhaps between documentation and news?
[00:09:31] <fenn> hmm i dont know how to do that
[00:09:35] <nopmop> fenn: not sure. what cms is this now? hand made?
[00:09:40] <fenn> joomla
[00:09:54] <nopmop> fenn: got it. ah right..it's written underneath
[00:10:07] <fenn> i do think the wiki needs to be more prominently linked, right now you have to dig for it
[00:10:31] <nopmop> fenn: i noticed..
[00:10:46] <SWPadnos> I wonder if we should just get rid of the polls and make the right side into important permalinks
[00:11:03] <SWPadnos> or move news to the right, make quick links the left, and still get rid of the polls
[00:12:12] <nopmop> hmm
[00:12:41] <nopmop> if i were you, i would set up a mailing-list (if it's not in place yet) and an rss-feed for the news from the site
[00:12:48] <jmkasunich> coden4life: you don't need to be a dev to join the -dev channel
[00:13:01] <jmkasunich> nopmop: we have two mailing lists
[00:13:02] <coden4life> SWPadnos do you think the butterfly is a great start for micro controller firs timers?? I have been looking at the pic basic kits and all that jazz for about 2 years now and finally got the AVR..
[00:13:08] <jmkasunich> emc-users, and emc-developers
[00:13:13] <SWPadnos> not really
[00:13:33] <nopmop> jmkasunich: mmm
[00:13:48] <SWPadnos> the butterfly is meant to demonstrate a couple of major features of the mega169 family: the LCD controller and low power operation
[00:14:10] <nopmop> jmkasunich: i can't see them right away on the site
[00:14:18] <jmkasunich> heh
[00:14:23] <SWPadnos> it does have peripherals, which is cool
[00:14:30] <coden4life> really hoping to stick with the c language ... don't want to deal with assemble if I can help it
[00:14:58] <coden4life> was cheap and you get what ya pay for
[00:15:03] <jmkasunich> click on the "contact" link in the top bar
[00:15:03] <SWPadnos> nopmop, see "contact"
[00:15:18] <nopmop> SWPadnos: got it
[00:15:34] <SWPadnos> the STK500 is $79 now, and supports most of their chips, and has better breakouts for all the ports
[00:15:42] <SWPadnos> but it doesn't have cool stuff like the LCD and that kind of thing
[00:16:03] <SWPadnos> it has 8 buttons and 8 LEDs (you connect them to port headers if you want to use them), the whole thing costs $79 now I think
[00:16:21] <SWPadnos> and it has a built in programmer, which can program other chips in-circuit
[00:16:36] <SWPadnos> (so it replaces the AVRUSB programmer)
[00:16:38] <coden4life> that sounds dangerously great
[00:16:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:16:46] <fenn> * fenn suggests a solderless breadboard and a usb programmer
[00:17:09] <SWPadnos> the STK500 costs about the same as that pair, but actually comes with one or two microcontrollers also
[00:17:36] <SWPadnos> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=ATSTK500-ND
[00:19:43] <coden4life> nice
[00:20:19] <coden4life> with all this to occupy my mind when will I get time to work on my tesla magnifying transmitter lol
[00:20:27] <SWPadnos> bzzzt bzzzzt
[00:25:20] <dmess> hi all
[00:27:45] <nopmop> hi dmess
[00:27:50] <nopmop> what's up?
[00:30:18] <jmkasunich> keep the microcontrollers far away from the tesla ;-)
[00:30:40] <nopmop> jmkasunich: heh
[00:30:42] <nopmop> :)
[04:30:38] <spasticteapot> Dumb engineering question of the day:
[04:30:47] <spasticteapot> Can I use a metal lathe to turn small things out of wood?
[04:37:51] <renesis> sure but the chips can get in the mating surfaces and throw the machine off
[04:58:59] <toastydeath> i would definately put bellows on the ways of a machine
[04:59:05] <toastydeath> that i was going to do that with
[07:14:47] <gfixler> as ever - still don't have EMC2 set up properly
[07:15:21] <gfixler> I'm confused, because I did a full reinstall from their liveCD, but it doesn't work
[07:15:43] <gfixler> first I had terrible latency issues, which folks in here and in the list helped me track down to the nvidia blob
[07:15:58] <gfixler> turning all manner of other things off I'm down to the 12k range if I don't use anything with Flash
[07:16:04] <gfixler> if I do, it spikes to almost 40k
[07:16:10] <gfixler> but that's all that seems to spike it
[07:16:36] <gfixler> lots of windows, large file copies, window movements, glxgears fullscreen, and much else all at once doesn't go much past 12k ever, so I'm using 15k
[07:17:16] <gfixler> then I run the config wizard - I've never in 2 years now managed to get the axes tests in there to work
[07:17:35] <gfixler> tonight, though, trying from scratch to set things up right, they now error on me
[07:17:50] <gfixler> I can open the test dialogs, but when I click Run, I get the same error for all axes
[07:19:11] <gfixler> I tracked that down to none of the RT stuff running, and ran /etc/init.d/realtime start from a shell to fire them all up
[07:19:31] <gfixler> now I can get into the axes tests, but as always before (2 years now), they don't do anything
[07:19:46] <gfixler> I click Run, it stays depressed in, but nothing moves
[07:20:05] <gfixler> it was like that even back when I was on Dapper and had EMC2 working regardless
[07:20:14] <gfixler> does anyone else have problems with the stepconf axes tests?
[07:20:36] <gfixler> I managed to kind of get them to dodgily work recenly by sending values in there all over the place, and way out of sensible ranges
[07:20:47] <gfixler> but it wasn't moving them nicely, or smoothly
[07:21:17] <micges> write your hw configuration of pc and machine
[07:21:40] <gfixler> is that an operation, or do you mean you want a list of what hw I'm on?
[07:21:52] <gfixler> oh, and also, if I try to run EMC2 now, I can't
[07:21:54] <gfixler> I get an error
[07:21:57] <micges> the second one :)
[07:22:05] <gfixler> actually, I haven't managed to get it to work since installing 8.04
[07:22:14] <gfixler> different errors now that I got the RT stuff up, though
[07:22:39] <gfixler> I'm on a Shuttle SS51G http://walmart.ca/wps-portal/storelocator/Canada-HealthAndBeauty.jsp?selection=listingDetails&page=hb&lang=null&assetId=11727&imageId=41149&suggestedItem=&priceType=1&page=null&departmentId=14&categoryId=193
[07:22:48] <gfixler> 2GB RAM, IIRC
[07:23:07] <gfixler> bought in '03
[07:23:21] <gfixler> Sherline driver box, 4 steppers - XYZA
[07:23:26] <gfixler> Sherline's steppers
[07:24:49] <gfixler> the jog buttons in the axis tests do nothing, too
[07:24:57] <gfixler> never managed to get them working
[07:26:42] <gfixler> I just did something new
[07:26:54] <gfixler> went into stepconf wizard and chose to edit the old setup instead of making a new one
[07:27:04] <gfixler> and canceled out after it wouldn't work again
[07:27:07] <gfixler> killing the changes
[07:27:12] <gfixler> now I *can* load Axis
[07:27:23] <gfixler> first time since upgrading to 8.04
[07:27:36] <gfixler> but when trying to power up, I get limit errors
[07:29:02] <gfixler> e.g. joint 0 on limit switch error
[07:29:42] <gfixler> I can use the override limits checkbox and then turn it on finally, but any attempt to move things throws up errors, unchecks the override, and turns it off again :)
[07:30:12] <gfixler> if I override, then try to home, it just sends the Z axis off on its way, though it doesn't actually do anything on the machine
[07:30:19] <gfixler> the number in EMC2 just starts scrolling
[07:35:35] <gfixler> okay, I redid the limits to surround 0 in the stepconf
[07:35:43] <gfixler> -4 to 4, e.g., instead of 0 to 8
[07:35:47] <gfixler> the limit errors are gone
[07:35:52] <gfixler> still no signals to the motors :(
[07:39:14] <gfixler> is /etc/init.d/realtime start okay all by itself?
[07:39:19] <gfixler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[07:39:28] <gfixler> "A script is provided with emc2 to load and unload all the realtime modules, and is much quicker for troubleshooting than starting and stopping all of emc2. To use it, type:
[07:39:29] <gfixler> /etc/init.d/realtime"
[07:39:51] <gfixler> it seems emc2 was supposed to fire this up, but didn't
[07:40:12] <gfixler> when I did an /etc/init.d/realtime status, none of the rt stuff was loaded, though it was listed
[08:01:41] <gfixler> looks like maybe I just don't understand stepconf
[08:01:44] <gfixler> quite possible
[08:02:03] <gfixler> having hammered out the other errors, I finally decided not to make my own config file, and just use the step xyz example file
[08:02:06] <gfixler> it works brilliantly
[08:02:12] <gfixler> I've never seen my Sherline move so quickly
[08:02:16] <gfixler> doesn't appear to have lost any steps
[08:02:30] <gfixler> next up - diff my ini file with that one to see what I have wrong
[08:02:47] <gfixler> I ran the EMC2 AXIS sample file that loads on start
[08:02:59] <gfixler> it got through it in about a minute, which is fast for this thing
[08:06:48] <alex_joni> gfixler: whoa... hold your horses
[08:08:43] <gfixler> haha
[08:08:53] <gfixler> yeah, that was a lot of data - sorry
[08:09:40] <gfixler> right now I'm tweaking scales and directions
[08:09:54] <gfixler> axes are moving the wrong amounts, and backwards
[08:12:39] <alex_joni> that's what I wanted to suggest.. start from stepper-xyz
[08:13:03] <alex_joni> when you start emc, you can select a sample config, then chose to make a copy of it
[08:13:35] <gfixler> right
[08:13:41] <gfixler> I was trying to use the stepconf wizard
[08:13:46] <gfixler> that seems to be a broken route for me
[08:18:56] <archivist> stepconf needs modding so it reads the output textfile then it will be more usable
[08:19:37] <gfixler> you mean the wizard doesn't read its own .stepconf file?
[08:22:29] <gfixler> something I've not yet uncovered: is the TRAJ section an override of the following AXES sections in inch.ini?
[08:22:43] <gfixler> why does it have values that are then set again specifically on a per-axis basis?
[08:22:52] <gfixler> which will Axis obey, and why?
[08:22:58] <gfixler> and will it ever switch for some reason?
[08:24:38] <alex_joni> gfixler: there are some cases where you want to limit moves in TRAJ
[08:24:47] <alex_joni> imagine a robot..
[08:25:08] <alex_joni> the rotaries each move at a certain max speed, but you might also want to limit the max tooltip speed
[08:25:18] <alex_joni> [TRAJ] referrs to max tooltip speed/accel
[08:25:46] <gfixler> I see
[08:25:56] <gfixler> so the motors won't spin over their respective axes speeds
[08:26:03] <gfixler> but the cutter won't go over the TRAJ limits
[08:26:05] <alex_joni> so if you have a move from X0,Y0,Z0 to X1,Y1,Z1
[08:26:18] <alex_joni> you get actually a faster tooltip speed, then any of the X,Y and Z speeds
[08:26:18] <gfixler> right, it would be a combination of moves adding up to a greater speed at the cutter
[08:26:23] <gfixler> cool, thanks!
[08:26:26] <alex_joni> np
[08:26:28] <gfixler> I'm glad to finally understand that
[08:26:40] <gfixler> I'm thinking some day I should write an EMC2 For Dummies book
[08:26:43] <gfixler> to help the slow people like me :)
[08:26:58] <alex_joni> did you try the latest docs we have?
[08:27:09] <gfixler> probably at least in part
[08:27:18] <gfixler> the biggest problem is that there's so *much* documentation!
[08:27:27] <gfixler> the wiki is rather enormous
[08:27:38] <gfixler> and unfortunately it's a mix of old and new info
[08:27:55] <gfixler> many sections outline problems, but don't list solutions, or have one solution that doesn't fit for me
[08:28:26] <gfixler> I feel like the problem is that without knowing a lot of the data already, it's harder to make sense of smaller parts of it
[08:28:53] <gfixler> like when my programmer friends try to explain mathematical concepts to me, but all of the words they use are from higher maths I've not learned
[08:29:51] <gfixler> it's on my long to-do list of things to do - reading the EMC2_User_Manual, the Integrator Manual, and even the Dev and HAL manuals
[08:30:16] <gfixler> unfortunately, I have so much else on that to-do list
[08:31:01] <alex_joni> there is a getting started manual now
[08:31:08] <alex_joni> so maybe you should start with that
[08:31:21] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf
[08:31:33] <gfixler> cool, thanks
[08:31:42] <gfixler> I don't see it linked in the knowledge base
[08:31:50] <gfixler> though I see a Getting Started section
[08:32:00] <gfixler> (HW Req, Latency-test, and Installing EMC2)
[08:33:17] <gfixler> it's quite simple for me, really
[08:34:08] <gfixler> I have no spindle control, no RPM info, no home/limit switches, no spray setup, no feedback to the PC of any kind, no probe...
[08:34:22] <gfixler> just 4 steppers for the PC to control
[08:36:37] <archivist> 4 steppers==helical gear :)
[08:37:48] <gfixler> you mean I can make one?
[08:38:09] <gfixler> because that would be pretty awesome
[08:39:12] <archivist> I do on 4 axis :)
[08:39:26] <alex_joni> takes a bit of time to get it right though
[08:39:49] <archivist> http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtziCsUj5Q
[08:40:32] <archivist> need 5 axis to save setup time
[08:42:34] <Lerman____> Lerman____ is now known as Lerman
[08:43:32] <anonimasu> :)
[08:44:15] <archivist> now contemplating making a trunnion started a drawing last night
[08:49:43] <anonimasu> gfixler: im looking on your videos
[08:50:21] <anonimasu> it looked to me like your problem was the clamping not the boring tool ;)
[08:50:29] <gfixler> haha
[08:50:48] <anonimasu> seriously
[08:50:50] <gfixler> well, it was still a totally incorrect usage of the boring tool
[08:51:02] <gfixler> it's supposed to be used to open up existing holes in small increments
[08:51:05] <anonimasu> you can use boring heads to flycut surfaces just fine.
[08:51:12] <gfixler> ah
[08:51:17] <gfixler> well, it was actually to counterbore there
[08:51:25] <gfixler> trying to make a deep hole
[08:51:30] <anonimasu> though then you usually stick the bar -------------------^
[08:51:54] <anonimasu> ah :)
[08:52:21] <gfixler> so this is interesting
[08:52:29] <gfixler> the Sherline driver is supposed to do half stepping
[08:52:49] <gfixler> when I gave stepconf a value of 2 for microsteps
[08:52:57] <gfixler> it generated the scale value of 4000
[08:53:18] <gfixler> but to get my steppers moving actual increments
[08:53:19] <gfixler> 1:1
[08:53:24] <gfixler> it needs to be 16000
[08:53:51] <gfixler> 8000 was giving me half distances
[08:54:02] <gfixler> 1 in axis == .5 in real life
[08:54:13] <gfixler> I think the scale value equates to the microstepping
[08:54:28] <gfixler> which would seem to suggest that their driver does more than half step
[08:55:14] <anonimasu> 4microsteps..
[08:55:32] <gfixler> the good news, however, was that with a speed of F1, a move in X from 0 to 3 took just over 1:58 by my stopwatch
[08:55:35] <anonimasu> 16000/2000
[08:55:35] <gfixler> so feed speeds seem accurate
[08:55:43] <gfixler> 2000?
[08:55:49] <anonimasu> that means 8 microsteps per step..
[08:55:55] <anonimasu> 11:11 < gfixler> when I gave stepconf a value of 2 for microsteps
[08:55:56] <anonimasu> 11:11 < gfixler> it generated the scale value of 4000
[08:56:03] <gfixler> right
[08:56:13] <gfixler> I'm not sure what 4000 itself means
[08:56:21] <anonimasu> 4000 is steps per "unit"
[08:56:26] <anonimasu> err sorry..
[08:56:33] <anonimasu> yeah, steps per unit.
[08:56:38] <anonimasu> per inch.. or so
[08:56:45] <gfixler> oh
[08:56:54] <gfixler> 16k steps per inch for me/
[08:56:55] <gfixler> ?
[08:57:00] <anonimasu> yes
[08:57:04] <gfixler> wow
[08:57:13] <gfixler> I don't believe my hardware is accurate to that level :)
[08:57:30] <gfixler> but I'm happy to let it try
[08:57:31] <anonimasu> :)
[08:57:55] <gfixler> I'm going to machine at the molecular level
[08:58:00] <anonimasu> lol
[08:59:16] <gfixler> actually, first up is a miniature circular saw blade for a friend's Halloween costume
[08:59:23] <gfixler> I don't know why he needs it, nor what the costume is
[08:59:50] <fragalot> why not go big and attach it to an exo skeleton? that'd be one awesome costume for halloween... everybody would think the blood on it is fake...
[08:59:53] <fragalot> perfect crime
[09:00:09] <anonimasu> :)
[09:00:15] <anonimasu> brb
[09:00:17] <anonimasu> lunch
[09:00:42] <gfixler> enjoy
[09:03:36] <gfixler> http://www.garyfixler.com/marcsaw1.png
[09:03:49] <gfixler> the inside line is the blade
[09:03:59] <gfixler> the outside is my own manual offset
[09:04:17] <gfixler> I haven't quite gotten the hang of cutter diameter offsets and tool tables yet :)
[09:05:54] <archivist> hehe "I'm also working on a back-end to this site that takes precedence over the front-end."
[09:06:05] <gfixler> ha
[09:06:12] <gfixler> I think that note is around 7 years old :)
[09:06:23] <fragalot> lol, dealextreme now sells lockpicks too
[09:06:39] <gfixler> lockpicks?
[09:07:36] <archivist> wow a subscriber!
[09:07:43] <gfixler> haha
[09:07:53] <gfixler> yeah, I wanna keep up on the excitement, if that's okay
[09:07:59] <archivist> yup
[09:08:03] <gfixler> awesome
[09:16:11] <fragalot> * fragalot sips his tea
[09:16:22] <gfixler> fragalot: how's things?
[09:16:37] <fragalot> as usual, too busy to take the time to even wipe.
[09:16:38] <fragalot> :p
[09:16:48] <gfixler> lol, nice
[09:17:21] <fragalot> I need a bigger desk
[09:17:41] <fragalot> maybe stack another o..... omg thats a good idea, lol.. I'll do that later
[09:17:42] <gfixler> machine one
[09:17:49] <fragalot> gfixler: Already did
[09:18:13] <fragalot> by hand, but meh
[09:18:35] <gfixler> oh yeah, well done
[09:18:42] <fragalot> gfixler: http://omploader.org/vbGhp
[09:18:57] <gfixler> I remember that
[09:18:58] <gfixler> it's sweet
[09:19:01] <fragalot> ^_^
[09:19:15] <fragalot> I'm thinking of putting a smaller "table" under my screens
[09:19:20] <gfixler> I think when I build my house I'm going to make sure the entire floor is cabinets sunk into the floor
[09:19:23] <fragalot> so i can shuv my keyboard under if i need more space
[09:19:31] <fragalot> lol?
[09:19:31] <gfixler> on hydraulics
[09:19:37] <fragalot> haha
[09:19:43] <gfixler> if I want to roller skate, I can just sink them all to floor level
[09:19:49] <gfixler> if I want a couch, I can raise a row of them near the wall
[09:19:51] <fragalot> that'd be awesome
[09:19:57] <gfixler> and each would store stuff
[09:20:01] <gfixler> so everything could fit underneath me
[09:20:06] <fragalot> insane, but awesome
[09:20:08] <gfixler> I don't know why homes don't already feature this
[09:20:18] <gfixler> why must I think of everything?
[09:20:20] <gfixler> :)
[09:20:26] <fragalot> because you need to dig the space out below, hydraulics don't last forever without maintenance,..
[09:20:33] <gfixler> hmm
[09:20:40] <gfixler> what about over a natural steam vent?
[09:20:49] <fragalot> still requires maintenance
[09:20:51] <gfixler> with a complicated series of rubber bladders
[09:20:53] <gfixler> probably
[09:21:01] <fragalot> rubber def. doesn't last forever
[09:21:08] <gfixler> by 'maintenance,' do you mean more than just dumping oil down there once in awhile?
[09:21:11] <fragalot> what if your fridge bladder blows? hmm?
[09:21:31] <fragalot> yeah, by maintenance i mean verifying a smooth operation, pumping oil in, checking the valves..
[09:21:38] <gfixler> okay, forget that
[09:21:40] <fragalot> making sure the hoses you used haven't died yet
[09:21:41] <gfixler> large stepper motors
[09:21:50] <gfixler> and threaded rods
[09:21:59] <fragalot> if you make sure the motors don't corrode, that'd do, but why steppers?
[09:22:07] <gfixler> you're right
[09:22:08] <gfixler> servos
[09:22:11] <fragalot> why not just asynchronic ?
[09:22:24] <fragalot> I mean, it's not like you'll position it within 1mm accurate o.0
[09:22:29] <gfixler> you never know!
[09:22:43] <gfixler> I might need a really precision outfeed table
[09:22:44] <fragalot> push button, it moves,.. release button, it locks (worm wormwheel)
[09:22:57] <gfixler> I like you're plan
[09:22:59] <gfixler> you're hired
[09:23:03] <gfixler> your* plan
[09:23:04] <fragalot> Sweet.
[09:23:23] <gfixler> wait, don't asynchronous motors need brushes?
[09:23:29] <gfixler> which wear out?
[09:23:39] <fragalot> could get brushless
[09:23:48] <gfixler> I suppose they won't be moving constantly
[09:23:53] <gfixler> except on Disco Night
[09:23:58] <fragalot> hahahah
[09:24:47] <archivist> boss did dig out the basement here, has a machine shop[ in it now and a sloping entrance ramp
[09:24:57] <fragalot> Sweet!
[09:25:00] <gfixler> nice!
[09:25:10] <fragalot> * fragalot jealous
[09:25:14] <fragalot> as usual
[09:25:15] <gfixler> I've long wanted to dig out my back yard
[09:25:25] <archivist> now idiot is selling the place
[09:25:28] <gfixler> I'm on a tiny ~0.2 acre lot in Los Angeles
[09:25:29] <fragalot> gfixler: get a dog. :D
[09:25:34] <gfixler> with neighbors butted right up against me
[09:25:46] <gfixler> I'd like to go 7 basements down to my bat cave/lair
[09:25:52] <gfixler> then I could machine all night without waking anyone
[09:25:53] <fragalot> gfixler: "tiny" ?
[09:26:03] <gfixler> yep!
[09:26:10] <gfixler> bigger than an apartment
[09:26:11] <fragalot> my whole house is probably (including the yard) 1/4th of yours
[09:26:17] <archivist> they dont know tiny in the states
[09:26:20] <gfixler> aren't you in an apartment?
[09:26:22] <gfixler> haha
[09:26:23] <gfixler> true
[09:26:24] <fragalot> no :/
[09:26:28] <gfixler> my parents are on 33 acres
[09:26:38] <fragalot> insanity. :p
[09:26:48] <gfixler> translation: perfection
[09:27:01] <gfixler> I used Google Maps to overlay their property on my property and the surrounding neighborhood here
[09:27:08] <gfixler> same elevations
[09:27:08] <fragalot> translation: maintenance workers (eg. gardener) required.
[09:27:08] <fragalot> :p
[09:27:23] <gfixler> then put red dots on the houses that were more than 50% in the guesstimated property line
[09:27:26] <gfixler> and counted up the dots
[09:27:49] <gfixler> something like 250-300 2-bedroom homes with garages, and small front and back yards fit in the space
[09:28:02] <fragalot> >.>
[09:28:20] <gfixler> and so much of the land around our land is empty forests and fields
[09:28:25] <gfixler> empty as in not developed
[09:28:30] <fragalot> you know, what you guys call a 2 bedroom house, for us, that means you could move in with 2 families and still have space left for a guestroom or 2
[09:28:40] <gfixler> that's crazy
[09:28:47] <gfixler> how can you have room for machine shops and woodshops?
[09:28:48] <fragalot> ^_^ exaggerated :p
[09:28:57] <fragalot> gfixler: garage?
[09:29:03] <gfixler> I'm so crammed into mine
[09:29:21] <gfixler> quite literally can't get to half of it most of the time
[09:29:36] <gfixler> have to wheel the band saw over to the wall, then the circular table saw up against it, then the router table up against that
[09:29:36] <fragalot> our garage fits 3 cars in a row, then thers the lil' toolshed behind it, small yard, 3car driveway, and the rest of the house
[09:29:43] <gfixler> that's TONS of room!
[09:29:50] <gfixler> what were you talking about earlier?
[09:29:53] <fragalot> I just put the cars out, take all my tools ( all manual tools ) out of the closets ..
[09:30:03] <gfixler> closets?
[09:30:08] <fragalot> cabinets
[09:30:09] <fragalot> whatever
[09:30:16] <gfixler> that wouldn't work here
[09:30:22] <fragalot> plastic craptastic quality racks with doors on it
[09:30:23] <fragalot> :p
[09:30:37] <fragalot> if you close one door, the air pushes the other open :'(
[09:30:51] <gfixler> I can't casually carry this thing out of anywhere: http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/2905719504/in/set-72157607646207687/
[09:31:16] <gfixler> though this helps me wheel it about finally: http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157607928566557/
[09:31:22] <fragalot> gfixler: see, the biggest thing I have atm is this: http://www.dewaltdeals.com/Dewalt%20Circular%20Saw.jpg
[09:31:31] <gfixler> ah, right
[09:31:42] <fragalot> like I said, all handheld tools.
[09:31:47] <gfixler> yeah
[09:31:54] <gfixler> I'm dying for a 2, or 3 car garage
[09:31:57] <gfixler> but I'm kind of stuck here for now
[09:32:01] <fragalot> actually i think the router is bigger
[09:32:09] <gfixler> that's a big router
[09:32:13] <fragalot> gfixler: note, the bikes take up the space of 1 car, and the 2 cars take the rest.
[09:32:26] <gfixler> smaller cars over there
[09:32:38] <fragalot> ford c-max
[09:32:40] <gfixler> I'm in a hatchback, but I think your cars are more like the mini coopers here, typically, no?
[09:32:43] <fragalot> and a renault twingo
[09:32:48] <gfixler> my router: http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157605513381360/
[09:32:59] <gfixler> yeah
[09:33:09] <fragalot> gfixler: mine: http://www.gijsdehaan.nl/images/Bosch_bovenfrees_11300.gif :p
[09:33:13] <gfixler> I wish LA would fall in love with small European cars
[09:33:28] <gfixler> everyone here has some complex and wants Suburbans
[09:33:39] <gfixler> ooh, plunge router, nice
[09:33:46] <gfixler> that's something I lack entirely
[09:33:47] <gfixler> no plunging
[09:33:51] <fragalot> :p
[09:34:06] <gfixler> though the table is killer
[09:34:17] <fragalot> my desk?
[09:34:23] <fragalot> it's far from perfect up close :p
[09:34:28] <gfixler> yes, that, too, but I meant my router table
[09:34:28] <gfixler> :)
[09:34:35] <fragalot> ah, hehe
[09:34:46] <gfixler> here's me routing some 2x4s on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFdRnNZ8gKQ
[09:35:06] <gfixler> I'm rabbeting the edges to slip in panels
[09:35:16] <fragalot> friend of mine has that too, but supersized (everything he has is supersized to the max. lol)
[09:35:26] <gfixler> bigger than this?
[09:35:29] <gfixler> that's pretty awesome
[09:35:40] <fragalot> lemme see if i can find something that compares to it
[09:36:38] <fragalot> I can't :/ but it's not really a router, it's more of a fixed mill, lol.
[09:36:48] <fragalot> ('cos its so big >.>)
[09:36:55] <gfixler> nice
[09:37:04] <fragalot> it scares me.
[09:37:24] <gfixler> haha
[09:37:34] <gfixler> I have a healthy respect for some of these big tools, too
[09:37:46] <fragalot> I don't, all I have is fear. :p
[09:38:06] <gfixler> I ran my finger through a circular saw once in high school
[09:38:12] <gfixler> cut about 1/16" off the tip of my finger
[09:38:14] <fragalot> clever!
[09:38:21] <gfixler> I had a hard time even using the saw for a few years after that
[09:38:29] <fragalot> I did the same thing with a manual saw 2 days ago,... now i don't have a fingernail on my thumb.
[09:38:32] <gfixler> I foolishly was pulling a small piece through from the back
[09:38:36] <gfixler> and it kicked
[09:38:41] <gfixler> and pulled my hand past the blade instantly
[09:38:42] <fragalot> ouch
[09:38:44] <gfixler> no time to react at all
[09:38:47] <gfixler> very horrifying
[09:38:52] <fragalot> it's always like that
[09:38:54] <gfixler> ouch about your thumb
[09:39:03] <fragalot> one of the reasons why i love sawstop or whatever it's called.
[09:39:03] <gfixler> no blade scares me like a circular saw blade
[09:39:07] <gfixler> yeah
[09:40:02] <fragalot> gfixler: http://www.jedihawk.com/images/milling_vice/milling_vice_2.jpg <-- thats about the size of tools he usually puts on his router.
[09:40:05] <gfixler> or a robot that feeds the wood through for you
[09:40:15] <gfixler> nice!
[09:40:23] <gfixler> I like the vacuum clamped in there
[09:40:31] <gfixler> and those are Sherline parts
[09:40:35] <gfixler> so I know exactly how big that is
[09:40:38] <fragalot> gfixler: I just googled that :p
[09:41:06] <gfixler> :)
[09:41:20] <fragalot> gfixler: what I don't like is cutting a board on a circular saw table thingy,.. nothing that holds it down but you..
[09:41:53] <fragalot> that, and I often have lil' things stuck between the blade, and the guide... :p broken a window or 2 that way
[09:41:59] <gfixler> hahaha
[09:42:11] <gfixler> you need 3 pairs of safety glasses
[09:42:18] <fragalot> :D
[09:42:29] <gfixler> I still want to make those goggles you made me imagine the other night
[09:42:36] <gfixler> inch-thick Lexan :)
[09:43:53] <gfixler> I don't do any circular saw table cutting where I'm holding things myself
[09:44:18] <gfixler> ripping is against the fence
[09:44:27] <gfixler> cross cuts is on the Incra Miter5000
[09:44:30] <gfixler> miter sled
[09:45:07] <fragalot> xD
[09:45:29] <gfixler> I've plans to build a few custom sleds
[09:45:35] <fragalot> gfixler: Aye, don't always have the courage to take /EVERYTHING/ with you if you go on location to make things..
[09:45:47] <gfixler> what's 'on location?'
[09:45:49] <gfixler> ;)
[09:46:01] <gfixler> I think it's easier to ship the location to my lot
[09:46:08] <alex_joni> http://www.techamok.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8191
[09:46:30] <gfixler> ha
[09:46:34] <gfixler> quite comparable
[09:48:29] <fragalot> lmao
[09:50:18] <gfixler> I found a local copy of a video I edited together of so much footage
[09:50:23] <gfixler> more than an hour of me working in the woodshop
[09:50:29] <gfixler> it's now 27:40 in length
[09:50:39] <gfixler> and I disagree with about 60% of everything I did in it
[09:50:45] <gfixler> I can never show this video
[09:50:49] <fragalot> xD
[09:50:54] <gfixler> I'm doing everything wrong
[09:51:03] <fragalot> usually like that if you see yourself later
[09:51:08] <fragalot> at the time you think it's great
[09:51:14] <gfixler> yeah
[09:51:19] <gfixler> when am I done?
[09:51:20] <fragalot> then a week later it's like "WTF did i do here???"
[09:51:24] <gfixler> at some point I should be 'awesome'
[09:53:42] <anonimasu> iab
[09:53:48] <gfixler> good lunch?
[09:54:29] <fragalot> yawba
[09:54:40] <fragalot> You are welcome back, anonimasu. :p
[09:54:46] <anonimasu> thanks ^_^
[10:14:34] <fragalot> * fragalot feeds on some orange chunky goop
[10:18:01] <gfixler> I watched "Fringe"
[10:18:09] <gfixler> that orange goop is muscle relaxer!
[10:18:17] <fragalot> * fragalot falls on the floor
[10:18:18] <gfixler> making you the serial killer, uncaught for some 2 decades
[10:18:22] <gfixler> lol
[10:18:32] <fragalot> :p
[10:18:46] <fragalot> cereal killer
[10:18:54] <fragalot> invading your kellogs
[10:18:56] <gfixler> that's low
[10:19:01] <gfixler> what did cereal do?
[10:19:09] <gfixler> besides provide 9 essential vitamins and minerals
[10:19:14] <fragalot> ^ that.
[10:19:23] <fragalot> I didn't get a toy last time!
[10:19:30] <gfixler> you hate our freedoms!
[10:19:31] <anonimasu> :)
[10:19:37] <gfixler> haha
[10:19:43] <anonimasu> gfixler: I long for a new ep :p
[10:19:50] <gfixler> of Fringe?
[10:19:55] <anonimasu> gfixler: it's not amazingly good, but good enough to watch
[10:20:01] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:20:01] <gfixler> anonimasu: agreed
[10:20:11] <anonimasu> it's a bit too fantastic for my taste.
[10:20:22] <gfixler> it fills in for my occasional need to sit motionless in front of a box full of blinky lights
[10:20:27] <anonimasu> :)
[10:20:32] <anonimasu> I dont have that need very often..
[10:20:38] <anonimasu> except on sundays when there's mythbusters ^^
[10:20:42] <gfixler> right on
[10:20:46] <gfixler> less and less so for me these days
[10:20:46] <fragalot> mythbusters ftw.
[10:20:48] <gfixler> too busy with projects
[10:20:52] <fragalot> blind driving ftw.
[10:20:55] <gfixler> I met 2 of them!
[10:21:05] <anonimasu> cool :)
[10:21:17] <gfixler> and as ever, my camera was there
[10:21:18] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/134708389/
[10:21:32] <fragalot> I spotted the mythbusters in several movies and series sofar
[10:21:41] <gfixler> really?
[10:21:43] <gfixler> it was weird being bigger than Jamie
[10:21:44] <fragalot> once in CSI, and then a few others that I can't remember
[10:21:47] <gfixler> he's larger than life to me
[10:21:52] <fragalot> :D
[10:22:04] <gfixler> he was exactly as on the show
[10:22:07] <gfixler> nice, but gruff
[10:22:17] <gfixler> and Grant was extremely friendly
[10:22:24] <anonimasu> :)
[10:22:25] <gfixler> making sure to learn everyone's name who came up for a pic
[10:22:33] <gfixler> and call them by it when they walked away, thanking them for being fans
[10:22:38] <fragalot> hehe
[10:22:44] <gfixler> he's the nice one
[10:22:59] <fragalot> he's also the techy geek
[10:23:04] <gfixler> yeah
[10:23:18] <fragalot> i love his creations, lol.
[10:23:18] <gfixler> I saw Adam, but he had at least 2 small kids with him who were having bathroom emergencies
[10:23:27] <anonimasu> hehe :)
[10:23:28] <gfixler> when I went up, he was off in the restrooms with them
[10:23:30] <fragalot> xD
[10:23:39] <gfixler> I don't think any part of his life isn't crazy
[10:23:46] <fragalot> Aye
[10:23:48] <anonimasu> I need to get the new episodes of it.
[10:23:49] <fragalot> same for adam
[10:23:51] <anonimasu> I missed the last one
[10:23:53] <anonimasu> :(
[10:23:56] <anonimasu> as I were studying
[10:24:06] <gfixler> studying is importanter
[10:24:12] <fragalot> last I saw was part of the episode where they try blind driving
[10:24:17] <gfixler> that's how you learn about words that aren't real
[10:24:19] <gfixler> like importanter
[10:24:20] <fragalot> gfixler: "more important"
[10:24:23] <fragalot> :p
[10:24:24] <gfixler> :)
[10:24:27] <anonimasu> importante :p
[10:24:33] <gfixler> more importanter
[10:24:33] <fragalot> I'm currently multitasking
[10:24:39] <anonimasu> ^_^
[10:24:40] <anonimasu> me too
[10:24:44] <gfixler> fragalot: any latency?
[10:24:45] <fragalot> chatting to you guys, eating my orange goop, and studying my french
[10:24:51] <fragalot> gfixler: ~.3 sec
[10:24:53] <anonimasu> drawing up protocol design and irc:ing
[10:24:55] <anonimasu> :P
[10:24:56] <gfixler> studying French?
[10:25:00] <gfixler> I thought you already knew it
[10:25:07] <anonimasu> * anonimasu puts a nail into canbus
[10:25:10] <fragalot> gfixler: Aye,.. I do,.. but still, tests suck
[10:25:11] <fragalot> :p
[10:25:14] <fragalot> (<-- uni bod)
[10:25:15] <gfixler> playing guitar and procrastinating
[10:25:20] <anonimasu> not bad
[10:25:22] <anonimasu> I do that alot
[10:25:42] <anonimasu> great minds think alike *grins*
[10:25:57] <gfixler> we also saw Rob Cockerham that day
[10:26:00] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/134711092/
[10:26:08] <gfixler> internet-famous for www.cockeyed.com
[10:26:28] <anonimasu> I have no idea who that is :)
[10:26:34] <gfixler> yeah, he was surprised anyone knew him
[10:26:36] <gfixler> or was a fan
[10:26:41] <fragalot> xD
[10:26:53] <gfixler> my friends knew so much more about him than me
[10:26:56] <gfixler> I think they creeped him out
[10:26:57] <fragalot> *burp*
[10:27:08] <fragalot> I feel like blowing something up
[10:27:08] <anonimasu> :)
[10:27:19] <anonimasu> fragalot: just do it
[10:27:23] <gfixler> fragalot: balloons?
[10:27:25] <fragalot> found ~750grams of gun powder the other day
[10:27:31] <gfixler> *found?*
[10:27:35] <fragalot> yeah
[10:27:44] <anonimasu> wow :D
[10:27:47] <gfixler> you find cooler things than me
[10:27:53] <gfixler> did you find it on a shelf in a gun shop?
[10:27:56] <fragalot> I'm thinking of making a giant oak ball, and then a big fat barrel
[10:28:07] <gfixler> you mean turning it on a lathe?
[10:28:07] <fragalot> gfixler: no, on an old farm
[10:28:14] <gfixler> uh oh
[10:28:19] <gfixler> can old gp blow up?
[10:28:23] <gfixler> i.e. accidentally
[10:28:25] <gfixler> like tnt
[10:28:29] <fragalot> no
[10:28:34] <gfixler> phwew
[10:28:35] <fragalot> unless if you light it
[10:28:36] <anonimasu> uh.. if you ignite it..
[10:28:46] <gfixler> right
[10:28:48] <fragalot> wait
[10:28:52] <fragalot> I still have some giant wooden balls
[10:28:59] <fragalot> from when we played car snooker
[10:29:00] <gfixler> my school buddy is in the army
[10:29:07] <anonimasu> well, it wont blow up unless it's enclosed..
[10:29:12] <gfixler> when he was in IIRC Kuwait, he had ammo go off in his hand
[10:29:16] <gfixler> large bullet, I think
[10:29:20] <gfixler> because it was old
[10:29:22] <anonimasu> it'll just dissapear in a cloud of smoke and go bang..
[10:29:42] <fragalot> anonimasu: thats what it does if compressed too... :p
[10:29:46] <fragalot> just more bang.
[10:29:50] <anonimasu> lol..
[10:29:53] <anonimasu> yes ofcourse..
[10:30:03] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/412415264/in/set-72157594573095546/
[10:30:31] <fragalot> gfixler: the balls we used for car snooker were ~1m in diameter :;p
[10:30:41] <gfixler> SOLID?
[10:30:45] <fragalot> :D
[10:30:49] <anonimasu> snooker balls are real solid :)
[10:31:00] <fragalot> gfixler: ofcourse solid :p
[10:31:09] <gfixler> that's insanity
[10:31:14] <fragalot> it was, but GREAT FUIN
[10:31:16] <fragalot> fun
[10:31:22] <gfixler> how does one even go about making one of those?
[10:31:24] <gfixler> chainsaws?
[10:31:33] <gfixler> keep rolling a huge log down a mountain until round?
[10:31:37] <fragalot> you know the friend i told you about with everything superized?
[10:31:40] <fragalot> supersized*
[10:31:41] <gfixler> yes
[10:31:45] <fragalot> well... on his lathe
[10:32:13] <gfixler> his lathe is that large?
[10:32:21] <gfixler> that is most definitely supersized
[10:32:21] <fragalot> :D
[10:32:39] <gfixler> I can make things about 5" in diameter on mine
[10:32:47] <gfixler> and up to ~17" long
[10:33:04] <gfixler> that's 12.7cm dia
[10:33:16] <gfixler> ~43cm long
[10:33:25] <fragalot> reasonably small
[10:33:26] <fragalot> :p
[10:33:36] <gfixler> souvenir baseball bat pens
[10:33:47] <gfixler> candlestick holders
[10:33:52] <gfixler> my own chopsticks
[10:33:59] <fragalot> lol
[10:34:07] <gfixler> boxes and boxes of toothpicks
[10:34:10] <gfixler> the good life
[10:34:24] <gfixler> I'm saving a fortune making my own toothpicks
[10:34:48] <fragalot> LOL
[10:34:51] <fragalot> :p
[10:35:05] <fragalot> unless if you have a barfeeder, I'd say it's cheaper to just buy them in bulk
[10:35:11] <fragalot> and even then
[10:35:18] <archivist> electricity costs more than buying new
[10:35:27] <fragalot> Exactly
[10:35:35] <fragalot> except if you run the lathe by a windmill
[10:35:36] <fragalot> or bike
[10:35:49] <gfixler> very high taxes on toothpicks here
[10:35:53] <fragalot> which is something I wanna make someday.. windmill.
[10:36:04] <gfixler> for generating electricity?
[10:36:19] <fragalot> Aye
[10:37:23] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[10:37:26] <anonimasu> stupid valve package.
[10:37:30] <fragalot> hit it!
[10:37:41] <anonimasu> it'll make me hurt :/
[10:37:42] <gfixler> steam?
[10:37:53] <anonimasu> no hydraulics
[10:38:00] <fragalot> ok
[10:38:04] <fragalot> shoot it from a distance
[10:38:04] <anonimasu> I want them with pressure feedback for all ports..
[10:38:09] <anonimasu> -_-
[10:38:15] <anonimasu> well, of the servo pressure.. :p
[10:38:34] <anonimasu> so I can calibrate the pilot valves..
[10:38:35] <gfixler> are you making my patented elevator floor cabinets?
[10:38:43] <anonimasu> no
[10:39:15] <anonimasu> hmm.. I need a spring tester..
[10:39:41] <anonimasu> maybe I should just keep calculating/estimating spring wear.. -_-
[10:39:43] <fragalot> gfixler: what if we springload those cabinets! for quick emergency access
[10:39:59] <gfixler> fragalot: or rapid egress!
[10:40:18] <gfixler> just gotta time it properly with the automatic sunroofs
[10:41:05] <fragalot> gfixler: then put one under your bed, as an alarm clock
[10:41:15] <fragalot> *THUD* WAKE UP! *THUD*
[10:41:38] <archivist> some foo with a dead weight pressure tester
[10:41:53] <anonimasu> :)
[10:44:34] <fragalot> * fragalot puts an egg in a bag, sets it on fire, and puts it on gfixler's doorstep
[10:44:44] <gfixler> *stomp stomp stomp*
[10:44:47] <gfixler> ew
[10:44:52] <fragalot> dude! you were supposed to eat it :'(
[10:44:58] <fragalot> nice cooked eg.
[10:45:00] <fragalot> g
[10:45:08] <gfixler> *STOMP STOMP STOMP*
[10:45:12] <fragalot> no
[10:45:13] <gfixler> is it dead yet?
[10:45:15] <fragalot> it's *nom nom nom*
[10:45:22] <gfixler> I'm not eating it now
[10:45:27] <gfixler> it's all smashed up
[10:45:29] <fragalot> yes you are
[10:45:31] <fragalot> omelet!
[10:45:35] <fragalot> scrambled eggs
[10:45:37] <fragalot> EAT IT
[10:45:53] <gfixler> *nom... nom... nom*
[10:45:54] <gfixler> :(
[10:45:58] <fragalot> ew you ate it
[10:46:03] <gfixler> :(:(:(
[10:46:15] <fragalot> it's been laying in the sun for 4 days, any longer and it'd have hatched :/
[10:46:29] <gfixler> when do we find out if I gained superpowers?
[10:46:47] <fragalot> after you get out of the hospital
[10:47:13] <gfixler> something to think about while I'm in, at least
[10:48:08] <fragalot> meanwhile, i'm patenting your idea.
[10:48:25] <gfixler> that's fine
[10:48:31] <gfixler> I have inserted a fatal flaw in the concept
[10:48:44] <fragalot> "concept"
[10:48:53] <fragalot> obviously, I fix'd that.
[10:49:03] <gfixler> it was recursive in nature
[10:49:09] <gfixler> based on fractals
[10:49:19] <gfixler> eliminating it makes it stronger
[10:49:22] <fragalot> I skipped that part.
[10:49:35] <gfixler> well now you just have cabinets
[10:49:41] <gfixler> I hope you choke on them
[10:50:13] <fragalot> lol
[10:50:29] <fragalot> http://www.break.com/index/expensive_multi_car_accident.html
[10:50:34] <fragalot> thats how I like my races.
[10:50:35] <fragalot> :p
[10:51:03] <gfixler> I *really * hope the more senior/stuffy members of the list read through our part of the chat archives
[10:51:48] <fragalot> lol.
[10:51:49] <gfixler> wow, those cars are designed to explode
[10:52:34] <fragalot> "hey look I have a racecar. I have above average grip on the road when it's dry. fear me."
[10:52:41] <gfixler> and the visibility is too low for them to tell what's coming up ahead
[10:52:43] <fragalot> slicks + wet road == win
[10:52:56] <fragalot> gfixler: dude, look better.... it doesn't matter if they ca see it or not xD
[10:53:06] <gfixler> this video needs a cost meter in the top corner
[10:53:41] <anonimasu> gah.. I wonder if I should just do away with alot of stuff and replace it all with a velocity pid controller.
[10:53:55] <gfixler> anonimasu: what are you making over there?
[10:54:03] <anonimasu> machines to make holes in the ground
[10:54:10] <anonimasu> :)
[10:54:13] <gfixler> augers?
[10:54:16] <fragalot> who needs machines when they have gunpowder?
[10:54:17] <anonimasu> big onesones that mount to forest machines..
[10:54:25] <gfixler> LAZERS?
[10:54:29] <gfixler> wow
[10:54:47] <fragalot> laser? hydraulic? eh o.0
[10:54:53] <anonimasu> haha..
[10:55:03] <anonimasu> there's almost been laser involved at one point ;)
[10:55:08] <anonimasu> for position sensing
[10:55:28] <fragalot> coo
[10:55:29] <fragalot> l
[10:55:34] <gfixler> lasers are capable of creating incredibly precise positioning systems
[10:55:37] <anonimasu> but ultrasonic works better ;)
[10:55:41] <gfixler> except when they're put on consumer tools that I buy
[10:55:55] <anonimasu> they are more rugged.. and handle dust alot better
[10:55:59] <fragalot> gfixler: http://www.break.com/index/failed-chinese-crash-test.html crumple zones are there for your safety!
[10:56:02] <gfixler> everything with a laser on it is far more accurate when I turn off the laser
[10:56:15] <anonimasu> LOL
[10:56:30] <fragalot> lmao
[10:56:31] <gfixler> that looks survivable
[10:56:39] <fragalot> none of my tools /HAVE/ lasers
[10:56:47] <gfixler> hahaha
[10:56:50] <fragalot> except for the laser leveler thingy
[10:56:54] <fragalot> but it's off
[10:56:54] <fragalot> :p
[10:56:58] <anonimasu> how fast was that crash?
[10:57:06] <gfixler> 2kph
[10:57:11] <gfixler> it's made of tin foil
[10:57:15] <anonimasu> hm..
[10:57:19] <anonimasu> tinfoil can be sturdy.
[10:57:23] <fragalot> gfixler: that was slowmotion >.>
[10:57:24] <fragalot> :p
[10:57:25] <gfixler> *can*
[10:57:26] <anonimasu> if you fold it thr right way ;)
[10:57:32] <fragalot> anonimasu: so can paper
[10:57:32] <gfixler> fragalot: lol
[10:57:37] <anonimasu> yep, that was the point
[10:57:39] <gfixler> yep
[10:57:50] <fragalot> I've built paper chairs before.
[10:57:51] <fragalot> :p
[10:57:52] <gfixler> one of my ways of wasting time at work is interleaving the pages of 2 telephone directories together
[10:57:54] <gfixler> really fat ones
[10:58:03] <gfixler> I'm in the Bs now
[10:58:03] <anonimasu> lol
[10:58:13] <gfixler> once I finish, no force will be able to tear them apart
[10:58:30] <anonimasu> LOL :D
[10:58:36] <anonimasu> didnt you study?
[10:58:42] <fragalot> gfixler: done that for a wedding present
[10:58:53] <gfixler> fragalot: awesome!
[10:59:00] <fragalot> took 5 thick telephone directories, and interwove them, hiding money in between.
[10:59:07] <gfixler> LOL
[10:59:10] <gfixler> that's epic
[10:59:17] <fragalot> :D
[10:59:21] <gfixler> and evil
[10:59:28] <gfixler> making them work for it
[10:59:36] <fragalot> well,.. thats not hte worst part
[10:59:39] <anonimasu> :D
[10:59:41] <gfixler> I had something similar recently...
[10:59:44] <fragalot> we also stuffed the house with packing foam peanut thingies
[10:59:51] <fragalot> ~50cm high, in every room
[10:59:52] <gfixler> my dad bought me a lot of savings bonds as a kid
[10:59:55] <gfixler> for about 6 years
[10:59:57] <gfixler> usually 1/mo.
[11:00:03] <gfixler> came to 71 of them
[11:00:05] <archivist> I did a cardboard box epmty but use a scalpel to plate gift in the wall
[11:00:06] <gfixler> which I finally cashed in recently
[11:00:17] <gfixler> had to write my name, social security number, and full address on every one of them
[11:00:18] <fragalot> archivist: lmao.
[11:00:20] <gfixler> took me about 40 minutes
[11:00:25] <gfixler> my hand was dead for the next day
[11:00:27] <fragalot> I wanna re-do the peanut thing again
[11:00:41] <fragalot> i think they are still finding those peanuts behind the couch
[11:00:52] <gfixler> fragalot: lol - you have the best life
[11:01:00] <fragalot> life is what you make it
[11:01:17] <fragalot> half an hour before class starts again..
[11:01:23] <gfixler> I'm making my life a warning to others
[11:01:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[11:01:33] <anonimasu> I have class tomorrow
[11:01:42] <anonimasu> and at thursday I have a chem test..
[11:01:45] <gfixler> while signing those bonds, knowing that each time I signed I was agreeing to get $50 or $100
[11:01:45] <anonimasu> that I'll fail.
[11:01:51] <fragalot> I need to think of something epic to do
[11:01:53] <gfixler> a thought experiment occurred to me
[11:02:06] <fragalot> atm i'm planning on fixing up an old jaguar
[11:02:07] <gfixler> if you knew you could make $50 (or local equivalent) for signing your name
[11:02:11] <gfixler> how many times would you do it?
[11:02:28] <gfixler> wrist and hand get really sore after awhile
[11:02:33] <gfixler> but it's a lot of money for just a signature
[11:02:45] <anonimasu> 20k times or so..
[11:02:46] <anonimasu> ^_^
[11:02:48] <gfixler> :)
[11:02:59] <anonimasu> if there isnt a cap..
[11:03:09] <anonimasu> if you do it enough times you can stop working :p
[11:03:11] <fragalot> depends on where i sign my name.
[11:03:12] <gfixler> I didn't know how much longer I could go after signing 71 times + address and SSN
[11:03:18] <anonimasu> err, start playing ;)
[11:03:29] <gfixler> my muscles started spasming in reverse
[11:03:33] <fragalot> get a stamp
[11:03:36] <gfixler> so the loop under my y would be above it
[11:03:37] <fragalot> then put your signature under it.
[11:03:56] <gfixler> yeah, I wanted a stamp, but it was just a one-off thing
[11:04:03] <gfixler> then the lady had to go through and do a bunch of work for each one
[11:04:08] <anonimasu> you could cnc mill it :p
[11:04:09] <fragalot> lol
[11:04:10] <anonimasu> a stamp ;)
[11:04:22] <gfixler> I determined that savings bonds in large quantities are a really great way to give someone money if you don't like them, or having to give them money
[11:04:23] <fragalot> anonimasu: or just order one trough work :p
[11:04:30] <anonimasu> they are $$$
[11:04:44] <gfixler> the point of thought experiment was that there was a cost to the reward
[11:04:51] <gfixler> ==the growing pain in your wrist
[11:04:52] <fragalot> one thing thats real fun here are the 1cent coins
[11:05:00] <fragalot> they are worth more in copper than their currency value
[11:05:05] <gfixler> really?
[11:05:08] <fragalot> yeah
[11:05:08] <anonimasu> yes
[11:05:11] <gfixler> that was the case here as well
[11:05:17] <gfixler> but they fixed that
[11:05:25] <gfixler> I think during the Great Depression people were filing coins down
[11:05:29] <gfixler> all day
[11:05:31] <fragalot> lol
[11:05:34] <gfixler> making piles of powder to melt down
[11:05:35] <fragalot> just melt 'm >.>
[11:05:40] <gfixler> well
[11:05:42] <gfixler> they'd only file a bit
[11:05:46] <gfixler> so they'd still use the coin for money
[11:05:50] <gfixler> but then build up new coins, too
[11:05:53] <gfixler> so coins were shrinking
[11:05:57] <fragalot> lmao
[11:06:03] <gfixler> they'd file it down below its value
[11:06:07] <fragalot> thats one way to do it...
[11:06:10] <gfixler> but it would still kinda look right
[11:06:17] <fragalot> but ours are really worth more as they are
[11:06:19] <gfixler> people wouldn't think about it and accept them
[11:06:32] <gfixler> ours are zinc filled now
[11:06:35] <gfixler> starting in 1982
[11:06:37] <gfixler> iirc
[11:06:50] <gfixler> so are you making things in a kiln to sell for more?
[11:06:56] <fragalot> euro is fairly new, they never thought about that (back when they were created, copper wasn't that valueable)
[11:07:03] <fragalot> me? no.
[11:07:56] <fragalot> now, BigJohnT.. now,... him... y'know... like...
[11:08:13] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157600719174813/
[11:08:28] <gfixler> you file the edge down until you see the silvery zinc
[11:08:39] <gfixler> somehow I mixed it up, and took a pre-1982 penny at first
[11:08:39] <fragalot> lol
[11:08:41] <gfixler> and was filing and filing
[11:08:44] <gfixler> and never saw silver
[11:08:52] <gfixler> then amid the filing dust, I realized I'm an idiot
[11:08:56] <anonimasu> lol
[11:09:00] <BigJohnT> fragalot: what are you babbling about :)
[11:09:04] <fragalot> :D
[11:09:06] <gfixler> I had about 1/3rd of the penny filed away
[11:09:06] <fragalot> nothing
[11:09:11] <gfixler> haha
[11:09:12] <fragalot> gfixler: lmao.
[11:10:04] <gfixler> muriatic acid is scary
[11:10:18] <gfixler> I caught a whiff of it and it almost knocked me down
[11:10:28] <fragalot> fail
[11:10:29] <fragalot> :p
[11:10:33] <gfixler> got a very scary feeling of my lungs searing and boiling away
[11:11:16] <gfixler> muriatic acid is code language for hydrochloric acid
[11:11:31] <gfixler> I like to keep a couple gallons of it lying around for intrigue
[11:20:02] <anonimasu> hmm..
[11:20:23] <anonimasu> that's still nice acid..
[11:21:20] <fragalot> only acid i have is sulpheric acid
[11:21:22] <fragalot> for car batteries
[11:21:48] <anonimasu> hydroflouric acid is the shit.
[11:22:17] <gfixler> is that the one that can strike you dead just from looking at it?
[11:22:23] <anonimasu> if you get it onto yourself, get the proper stuff for neutralizing it..
[11:22:36] <anonimasu> dont try water ^_^
[11:22:49] <anonimasu> it eats ceramics :)
[11:22:51] <anonimasu> and bone..
[11:23:13] <gfixler> erg
[11:24:10] <fragalot> fun!
[11:24:34] <fragalot> Well,... class time! cya in ~5 hours
[11:24:35] <anonimasu> http://www.elec.qmul.ac.uk/staffinfo/eric/qmwweb/hydroflo.htm
[11:24:41] <gfixler> bedtime for me!
[11:24:41] <anonimasu> take a peek at that :p
[11:25:00] <gfixler> anonimasu: ouch!
[11:25:32] <anonimasu> it's the nasiest stuff I've ever read about
[11:25:38] <anonimasu> other acids seem cute when compared
[11:25:45] <gfixler> I'm looking at injuries now
[11:25:47] <gfixler> :(
[11:26:01] <anonimasu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid
[11:26:07] <anonimasu> inquiries?
[11:26:23] <gfixler> I feel bad for the brave people who discovered it
[11:26:25] <gfixler> and quickly perished
[11:26:37] <gfixler> or became swamp monsters
[11:26:39] <anonimasu> :)
[11:27:16] <anonimasu> I wonder if the pen I ordered have arrived today
[11:27:42] <gfixler> I'm contemplating turning a pen in my lathe
[11:28:17] <anonimasu> what kind?
[11:28:32] <gfixler> I don't know much about it yet
[11:28:40] <gfixler> I've been digging through rockler's site for awhile
[11:28:46] <gfixler> and they sell tons of pen blanks and kits
[11:28:49] <anonimasu> ^_^
[11:28:53] <anonimasu> http://www.de.ufpe.br/~cribari/lamy_safari.jpg that I bought
[11:28:56] <anonimasu> err what..
[11:28:59] <gfixler> I don't have a particular thing for pens, but I do have a lathe, and it seems a fun project
[11:29:07] <gfixler> ah, nice
[11:29:19] <anonimasu> though relatively cheap..
[11:29:20] <gfixler> looks like a spy's tool
[11:29:35] <anonimasu> the white ones are much cooler :p
[11:29:56] <gfixler> http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=2508
[11:30:00] <anonimasu> http://inkbread.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/lamy1.jpg
[11:30:19] <gfixler> they have way too many blanks http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=2513
[11:30:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[11:30:29] <gfixler> nice
[11:30:36] <gfixler> that white one is being a ninja in that picture
[11:30:42] <anonimasu> *nods*
[11:30:49] <anonimasu> it has this storm-trooperish look :p
[11:30:51] <anonimasu> (I think)
[11:31:07] <gfixler> yeah
[11:31:16] <gfixler> totally
[11:31:32] <anonimasu> well, I dont care for looks, I hope mine writes well ^_^
[11:32:48] <gfixler> class notes?
[11:33:06] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:33:24] <gfixler> what if it's too cool, and you don't pay attention in class?
[11:33:32] <anonimasu> haha, it's just a pen..
[11:33:34] <anonimasu> writing too.
[11:33:36] <anonimasu> tool..
[11:33:50] <gfixler> seemed pretty cool, though
[11:33:55] <archivist> pen?, whats wrong with a keyboard
[11:34:17] <anonimasu> oh, it's hard drawing stuff with a keyboard..
[11:34:30] <gfixler> I think were I back in school now, I'd try to get the professors to let me dictate notes into a pocket recorder
[11:34:40] <gfixler> then I'd repeat what they said as they said it
[11:34:52] <gfixler> maybe critiquing them as I went
[11:34:56] <anonimasu> lol
[11:34:57] <anonimasu> *nod*
[11:35:10] <archivist> cnc engrave a stone tablet
[11:35:16] <gfixler> oooh
[11:35:19] <gfixler> I've wondered about that
[11:35:21] <gfixler> but not for awhile
[11:35:31] <anonimasu> I've set my mind to getting my handwriting readable too :p
[11:35:32] <anonimasu> (it
[11:35:33] <gfixler> when I first got the mini mill, I was hung up wondering about all that I'd be able to do
[11:35:46] <gfixler> and engraving stone was one thing I was curious about
[11:35:50] <anonimasu> well, more like grinding stone ;)
[11:36:05] <gfixler> would be fun to make stone gears
[11:36:16] <gfixler> I'd want to find a stone that would mill uniformly
[11:36:21] <gfixler> not shattering and chipping the whole time
[11:36:26] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIK1_8WJBNc&feature=related
[11:37:19] <gfixler> granite?
[11:37:24] <gfixler> marble?
[11:37:37] <anonimasu> yep
[11:37:38] <gfixler> awe, water
[11:37:49] <gfixler> I bet water is sort of a requirement
[11:37:54] <gfixler> I have a dry setup
[11:39:45] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[11:40:07] <gfixler> I could just pour buckets on it and mop up my wood floor later
[11:40:20] <anonimasu> brb eating something :)
[11:40:23] <anonimasu> cake ^_^
[11:49:36] <gfixler> well, I'm quite excited to have EMC2 back up, and seemingly better than ever
[11:49:49] <gfixler> I'm getting feed rates higher than ever
[11:50:01] <gfixler> owing likely to far better values set in at all levels
[12:04:59] <gfixler> night all
[15:33:31] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[16:52:06] <jepler> heaven help me, skunkworks's renewed work on his big servo amplifier has me thinking about stepper translator/drivers using a CPLD or small FPGA to work with existing integrated or discrete H-bridges. http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/cpldstep.png
[16:53:39] <jepler> a dumb microstepping firmware would take an afternoon to write, but the programmable nature of the cpld/fpga would mean that one could experiment with advanced features that some stepper drivers advertise
[16:58:52] <alex_joni> heh :)
[16:59:06] <jepler> hi alex_joni
[16:59:50] <alex_joni> hi jepler
[16:59:50] <fenn> you could sweep pwm and compare instead of parallel adc for less i/o
[17:01:14] <jepler> fenn: besides a voltage-output DAC I'm not sure how to "multiply" the reference voltage by the desired winding current %
[17:01:45] <fenn> * fenn now sees that it's a DAC
[17:04:14] <fenn> i still dont understand that last comment. why cant you just use a transistor to level shift?
[17:05:43] <jepler> vref sets the winding current for a "100% on" winding (this is the pot on most stepper driver boards)
[17:06:14] <jepler> at a "half step" position you actually want to set the winding current at 70% (sqrt(2)) of the reference current
[17:07:00] <jepler> with a voltage DAC you do that by outputting 70%*255=178
[17:07:56] <jepler> I don't see how to do that with pwm, since it swings to VCC, not to Vref
[17:09:49] <jepler> (the number of I/Os isn't that important; all but the smallest CPLDs have enough I/Os .. but getting rid of a whole chip would be nice)
[17:10:02] <jepler> bbl, lunchtim e
[17:33:48] <fragalot> my box has proven itself worthy just now
[17:34:19] <fragalot> I've spawned over 300 instances of pidgin on windows XP by accident and all that it has done is disable the "comma" button on my keyboard o.0
[17:42:28] <anonimasu> ^_^
[17:42:31] <anonimasu> ccool
[17:42:35] <anonimasu> err cool...
[17:42:49] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vdG56/oops.PNG
[17:43:09] <fragalot> even when it's struggling to spawn more instances it takes a screenshot without hesitation
[17:48:56] <SWPadnos> and you have 300+ instances of Pidgin why???
[17:51:51] <fragalot> SWPadnos: because I left my book on the keyboard.
[17:51:56] <fragalot> which kept spawning new instances.
[17:52:03] <SWPadnos> oh. well that explains it ;)
[17:53:09] <SWPadnos> jepler, depending on the CPLD family, you may be able to power one set of IOs with the variable reference voltage. Then the PWM percentages are fixed for a given fraction of the set full current
[17:53:45] <SWPadnos> also, you could use the adjustable reference with an op-amp (as variable gain), and use fixed reference levels
[17:56:36] <fenn> how bout a voltage divider on the output
[17:56:51] <fenn> 3-pin trim pot
[17:57:07] <anonimasu> hm, you defenetively need to decouple it somehow..
[17:57:17] <anonimasu> even if it's reference voltage it needs to supply a tiny bit of current..
[17:57:37] <anonimasu> (unless the cpld outputs are protected against overcurrent already
[17:58:24] <SWPadnos> a reference that feeds into an op-amp or two should be fine coming from a CPLD
[17:59:55] <SWPadnos> if the H-Bridge doesn't turn itself off from overcurrent (which I assume because the Isense goes to a comparator then to CPLD), then the reference levels may not be needed
[18:00:16] <SWPadnos> at that point, you can use a fast pseudo-ADC (like fenn suggested), and compare internally
[18:01:02] <SWPadnos> (but a comparator is probably better)
[18:03:04] <fenn> one would think this would come up a lot in cpld circuits and they would have a comparator built in
[18:03:20] <SWPadnos> some do, but not many
[18:03:50] <SWPadnos> CPLD/FPGA are usually used for logic, not analog interface, so it doesn't come up as often as you'd think
[18:05:29] <SWPadnos> other than the lack of free Linux tools, these are just about perfect: http://www.actel.com/products/fusion/
[18:05:32] <SWPadnos> oh, and cost and size
[18:08:10] <fragalot> whee my microchip shipment arrived today
[18:08:19] <fragalot> ~ $170 on samples ftw.
[18:09:23] <fragalot> now where did the sample emails from atmel go
[18:09:34] <SWPadnos> /dev/null?
[18:09:50] <fragalot> looks like it
[18:09:50] <SWPadnos> so the PIC32 is basically a MIPS core with the PIC name?
[18:10:19] <fragalot> Aye
[18:10:35] <SWPadnos> hmmm. then maybe I should look at them before dismissing the line completely
[18:13:31] <alex_joni> not worth the trouble :P
[18:13:39] <alex_joni> the name spoils it all
[18:15:19] <SWPadnos> yeah. it's hard to convince myself to actually buy one
[18:15:58] <SWPadnos> so the question is: should I get a layer 2 switch or a layer 3 switch?
[18:16:12] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking layer 2 is better, but layer 3 may be good enough for my office
[18:16:23] <Jymm> 24p?
[18:16:30] <fenn> layer 3 certainly sounds more impressive (50% more impressive!)
[18:16:32] <SWPadnos> unless I want to play with RTNet or that kind of thing ...
[18:16:40] <SWPadnos> well, it's actually 1/3 less impressive
[18:16:50] <Jymm> SWPadnos: 24p or 48p ?
[18:17:01] <SWPadnos> Jymm, yes, 24 + some SFF (shared with the last 2 RJ jhacks)
[18:17:04] <SWPadnos> -h
[18:17:10] <Jymm> SWPadnos: POE?
[18:17:13] <SWPadnos> no
[18:17:17] <SWPadnos> harder with gigabit
[18:17:19] <Jymm> hang on...
[18:17:33] <SWPadnos> 16 or 24 port would be fine
[18:18:59] <Jymm> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1169672084111&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=8411195123B09
[18:19:07] <SWPadnos> I also haven't decided how important a serial port is for management
[18:19:14] <Jymm> no need
[18:19:36] <Jymm> SWPadnos: has traffic shaping and vlan too
[18:19:47] <SWPadnos> yep. vlan was one of the requirements
[18:20:08] <SWPadnos> serial is better because you can always connect, whether you lose the IP address or not ;)
[18:20:23] <Jymm> Yeah, IF you hace a serial port =)
[18:20:27] <SWPadnos> as longa s you have the right connector size, gender, and DCE/DTE style connector
[18:20:27] <Jymm> or a serial cable
[18:20:31] <SWPadnos> yep );)
[18:20:38] <Jymm> I mean on the computer itself
[18:20:42] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:21:29] <SWPadnos> incidentally, WD Green 1TB drives are the "Shell Shocker" at NewEgg right now: $115 each
[18:21:40] <fragalot> Sweet.
[18:21:45] <fragalot> now if shipping wasn't $250 i'd get 3.
[18:21:47] <Jymm> wht or blk?
[18:21:59] <SWPadnos> if you get the combo with a locking SATA cable, they'll give you extra money too
[18:22:03] <SWPadnos> free 3-day shipping
[18:22:27] <SWPadnos> not the Black Edition, the green ones - low power (like 5W active)
[18:22:37] <SWPadnos> limit 5 :)
[18:27:22] <fragalot> LINK ME
[18:27:25] <fragalot> like.. NOW
[18:27:42] <SWPadnos> I hereby pronounce you linked
[18:27:48] <SWPadnos> err - LINKed
[18:29:35] <fragalot> But you should still like do it
[18:29:54] <SWPadnos> oh, are you looking for a link to the hard drives?
[18:30:07] <SWPadnos> http://promotions.newegg.com/shellshocker/20081014/index.html?cm_sp=HomepageTopRt-_-ShellShockr89-_-http%3a%2f%2fc1.neweggimages.com%2fWebResource%2fThemes%2f2005%2fNest%2fShocker_brandBnr.jpg
[18:30:36] <fragalot> ty
[18:30:40] <SWPadnos> sure
[18:30:46] <fragalot> why is atmel so much pickier on their samplse than microchip :p
[18:30:53] <fragalot> I mean all I asked for was a devboard :(
[18:31:07] <SWPadnos> does anyone sample those? (over the web anyway)
[18:31:57] <fragalot> atmel does
[18:32:07] <fragalot> atleast you can request them.
[18:32:11] <SWPadnos> interesting. I should look into that
[18:32:16] <fragalot> :D
[18:32:30] <SWPadnos> usually they want you to be from an established company before they'll send you anything
[18:32:32] <fragalot> impulse buy ftw. I just ordered that harddisk
[18:32:39] <SWPadnos> just one? :)
[18:32:46] <fragalot> Yeah.
[18:32:46] <fragalot> :p
[18:32:55] <fragalot> don't have a need for more nor can I afford more.
[18:32:56] <SWPadnos> I got 5 this morning - should arrive tomorrow
[18:33:09] <fragalot> xD
[18:33:12] <SWPadnos> 4 for the RAID, 1 for - uh - testing :)
[18:33:48] <SWPadnos> with the cables thrown in, I actually got $3.20 off per drive
[18:34:11] <fragalot> actually
[18:34:22] <fragalot> before I actually send the payment I'm checking fi they do international shipping for free too
[18:34:26] <fragalot> so i won't get screwed over later.
[18:34:36] <SWPadnos> the cables are $7.49, but they're only $4.29 if you buy 5. The combo still gives you $7.49 off that, so I got the drives for $111.79 each delivered
[18:34:44] <SWPadnos> hmmm. they usually don't ship internationally
[18:34:48] <SWPadnos> and it's definitely not free
[18:34:57] <fragalot> Exactly
[18:35:07] <fragalot> Yeah they don't
[18:35:08] <fragalot> figures
[18:35:09] <fragalot> :(
[18:35:25] <fragalot> bastards :p
[18:35:36] <fragalot> SWPadnos: ship me one for free. and i'll send you 90euro.
[18:35:36] <fragalot> :p
[18:35:47] <SWPadnos> hmmm. lemme check the exchange rates ;)
[18:35:59] <fragalot> www.xe.com
[18:36:10] <SWPadnos> too bad it wasn't on sale Friday - my sister just went to Germany last night (cheaper shipping from there)
[18:36:16] <fragalot> ~123.041USD
[18:36:41] <fragalot> oh yeah
[18:36:42] <fragalot> :(
[18:36:45] <SWPadnos> I can't send these to you. I "need" them! :)
[18:36:51] <fragalot> aww ;)
[18:41:07] <SWPadnos> jymm, that switch is $650, which is a little higher than I wanted to go
[18:41:32] <SWPadnos> I'm trying to figure out if it's "that much better"
[18:43:38] <fragalot> so... anyone here interrested in a Sun Fire V60x?
[18:43:42] <fragalot> :p
[18:44:24] <SWPadnos> that's what, about the speed of an AVR32? :)
[18:44:33] <fragalot> dual intel Xeon 2.6Ghz
[18:44:42] <SWPadnos> ok, dual AVR32
[18:44:46] <fragalot> 2GB ECC ram and a 36GB SCSI drive.
[18:44:54] <fragalot> 1U
[18:45:09] <SWPadnos> does it have a parallel port?
[18:45:21] <fragalot> if you put one in...
[18:45:22] <SWPadnos> (or have you already checked the latency and found it crappy?)
[18:45:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:45:37] <fragalot> no the power bill is just too big for me to keep it running 24/7
[18:45:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:45:50] <fragalot> 400euro/month == insane.
[18:45:55] <alex_joni> ouch
[18:45:58] <SWPadnos> insane^2
[18:46:28] <fenn> 400euro for electricity costs/
[18:46:47] <fragalot> fenn: includes gas.
[18:46:52] <fenn> gas?
[18:46:58] <fragalot> yes gas.
[18:47:04] <fenn> um.. i dont get it
[18:47:06] <fragalot> like for cooking...
[18:47:21] <fragalot> natural gas... y'know.. when lit it burns..
[18:47:24] <fenn> oh, i see. i thought you meant the computer ran on gas
[18:47:29] <fragalot> lol no.
[18:47:38] <SWPadnos> some places combine "utilities" onto one bill - electric, gas, sewer/water, trash ...
[18:48:07] <fragalot> for comparison: my uncle also pays 400 ...... but for him it's per year.
[18:48:13] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed
[18:48:16] <alex_joni> good night all
[18:48:19] <fragalot> gnite alex_joni
[18:48:20] <SWPadnos> see you
[18:59:23] <Jymm> SWPadnos: there is one that's $450
[18:59:43] <SWPadnos> I have a few in a comparison window at NewEgg
[18:59:58] <SWPadnos> ranging from $230-ish to $400-ish
[19:03:57] <fragalot> this should be fun
[19:04:12] <fragalot> attempting to solder a 150mil SOIC EEPROM to my lil' PCB
[19:17:45] <Jymm> SWPadnos: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=7042362&subid=23958381&type=
[19:18:22] <SWPadnos> wow. that looks almost as good as
[19:18:25] <SWPadnos> um
[19:18:27] <SWPadnos> yeah
[19:18:33] <jepler> I haven't read it all, but I do believe that this (expired) patent includes "decoding quadrature in the buggy way everyone thinks of first" (figure 3): http://www.google.com/patents?id=JUsxAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA3&vq=fig_3&source=gbs_search_s
[19:18:55] <fragalot> lol
[19:19:52] <fragalot> gotta love most patents
[19:20:01] <fragalot> they are so skewy and dodgy that you have no idea if you're violating it or not
[19:20:18] <SWPadnos> I have never built an appakatus in my life
[19:20:21] <SWPadnos> I swear
[19:20:34] <jepler> Is the appakatus a mammal?
[19:20:42] <SWPadnos> feline, almost
[19:20:44] <jepler> I think it has a pouch and lays eggs.
[19:22:41] <fragalot> lol
[19:23:02] <fragalot> * fragalot hands jepler a chickaroo
[19:27:01] <jepler> hm, according to the internet that's a fictional candy similar to a rollo but with white chicken meat instead of caramel. I'll pass.
[19:27:16] <jepler> (see also: crunchy frog)
[19:27:17] <cradek> jepler: did you see the last page or two? that's interesting.
[19:27:46] <cradek> (10% off $99+ order from enco...)
[19:28:29] <jepler> cradek: the "disclaimer and dedication"? No, I hadn't read that far
[19:28:50] <jepler> I did read a patent earlier which had a page of corrections at the end. "On page 1, column 1, line 34, replace "electrochemical" by "electromechanical""
[19:29:02] <cradek> oops.
[19:29:23] <jepler> cradek: I'll be happy to help you get to a $99 order :-P
[19:29:35] <archivist> piffle minor difference
[19:38:05] <jepler> cradek: carbide-tipped boring bar sets on sale in october: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=47&PMKANO=188&PARTPG=INLMPA&PMCTLG=01 (upper left)
[19:39:18] <cradek> jepler: thanks
[19:40:52] <archivist> oo that page has the nice keyway broaches
[19:43:17] <jepler> what in the world is a "zero flute" tool? http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=54&PMKANO=188&PARTPG=INLMPA&PMCTLG=01 (top)
[19:44:03] <archivist> they have a hole
[19:44:10] <cradek> it has a hole in it instead of flutes
[19:44:39] <fenn> what's the point of zero flute?
[19:44:43] <cradek> it's a design that doesn't dig in or chatter
[19:45:29] <cradek> I think you pretty much get a chip thickness proportional to the pressure you apply
[19:45:41] <fenn> i have found the 6-flute "chatterless" countersinks dont like being run in a drill press at all (awful chatter)
[19:45:59] <cradek> I bet you should try running them much much slower
[19:46:14] <fenn> i'd have to make a jack shaft
[19:46:19] <cradek> what speed have you been using?
[19:46:37] <fenn> lowest speed, probably 300rpm
[19:46:50] <cradek> 300 rpm at what diameter?
[19:46:57] <fenn> uh, 3/8"
[19:47:06] <fenn> 5/8" countersink
[19:48:12] <cradek> I meant surface speed - that's almost 50 sfm, I bet half or a third of that would work much better
[19:48:38] <cradek> 5/8 is pretty big
[19:51:51] <fenn> it's worse than i thought - lowest speed is 620 rpm
[19:53:40] <cradek> yeah that's all that's wrong
[19:54:19] <cradek> I bet the zero flute would chatter less, but slower speed is the best fix especially if you're working on steel
[19:57:14] <fenn> the standard 60deg lathe center tool works just fine
[19:57:44] <cradek> still on a 5/8 hole?
[19:57:59] <fenn> i was chamfering a 3/8" hole
[19:58:11] <cradek> oh I misunderstood
[19:59:34] <Paragon> Hello All, The other day I mentioned about the posibility of driving a small rotary table directly with a servo. I know this could be a how long a piece of string scenario but here go's. What torque would one need as a minimum torque say in Nm?
[20:00:12] <archivist> depends what the table needs to stand up to
[20:00:31] <archivist> * archivist sitting here drawing up a table tonight
[20:00:37] <Paragon> Sure... Light work at most say 50mm dia ali
[20:00:45] <fenn> Paragon: try turning whatever crank by hand and estimate how much force you put on the handle
[20:00:58] <cradek> measure the torque it takes to turn it and hold it against machining forces
[20:01:20] <Paragon> with a torque bar?
[20:01:24] <cradek> multiply by something around 5-10
[20:01:40] <archivist> and note added friction that dirve has to overcome etc
[20:02:04] <fenn> torque wrench probably not enough resolution.. if you really want to measure you could use a spring scale and string wrapped around a pulley
[20:02:31] <cradek> good idea
[20:02:33] <Paragon> That a good idea. .. :-)
[20:04:36] <Paragon> I saw something about a one foot pole with a known weight on the end if the motor lift it and holds it pne can calculate the torque by multiplying the length and weight etc. Just dont remember the exact calc.
[20:05:07] <Paragon> But I like the spring idea :-)
[20:05:24] <archivist> hint ft lb or nm
[20:05:42] <archivist> ie force distance
[20:06:13] <cradek> Newton = 1kg m/s^2
[20:06:24] <Paragon> ok
[20:06:29] <cradek> gravity = 10 m/s^2
[20:07:01] <cradek> you have mass (kg) and distance (lever arm in m); just massage until the units turn out right
[20:07:41] <Paragon> yep... thanks guys
[20:07:41] <fenn> google calculator or gnu units can help out
[20:09:27] <Paragon> I ve seen a motor that is about 1-2 Nm but I was not sure how strong that was. In a real world CNCapplication.
[20:10:44] <archivist> but are you driving direct or via a worm and wheel
[20:11:51] <Paragon> I would like to bypass the work if at all possible due to backlash etc. The table is 100mm dia so is fairly small.
[20:12:00] <Paragon> work = worm
[20:12:21] <fenn> not gonna happen
[20:13:16] <Paragon> So it need to be geared then.
[20:14:13] <archivist> Im designing worms in, in mine to make sure there is no reverse drive, backlash will be removed with a sprung worm engagement
[20:14:44] <archivist> alos there is speed v torque
[20:14:48] <archivist> also
[20:14:57] <Paragon> The problem also is that the worm feed does not feel consistant for the amount of torque required to turn the table
[20:15:38] <archivist> then poor table assembly / not concentric
[20:15:44] <tomp3> didnt someone report buying a direct drive rotary? http://www.dovermotion.com/SpecificProductFamilyPage.aspx?ID=5
[20:16:20] <fenn> Paragon: you might be able to get away with a big timing pulley
[20:16:25] <Paragon> Speed is not my primary issue but backlash is more so concerning. Dovermotion I got a quote from them last week.
[20:16:31] <archivist> I think someone fell off his chair at the price
[20:16:55] <Paragon> Yeah £3900 from memory ... lol
[20:17:31] <archivist> * archivist wonders what the price barrier is for the amateur/ cheapskate
[20:17:42] <Paragon> ;-)
[20:17:44] <fenn> price barrier?
[20:18:11] <archivist> fenn Im thinking of making trunnions for sale
[20:18:20] <fenn> that sounds like a great idea
[20:18:38] <archivist> but el cheapo compared to haas etc
[20:18:56] <fenn> so you are doing a market study in #emc :)
[20:19:16] <fenn> i'd say put on ebay, lower price until you get some nibbles
[20:19:59] <archivist> heh need hardware first to try on epay
[20:20:16] <fenn> well worst case scenario is you have a trunion table left over
[20:20:18] <anonimasu> if they are cheaper then 100$
[20:20:29] <fenn> $100 is too low
[20:20:34] <tomp3> archivist: keep me in mind.
[20:20:39] <anonimasu> archivist: actually I dont mind paying quite a bit for one, if it's big enough and you manage to keep the backslash low
[20:21:14] <anonimasu> archivist: ~500-700$ is sane.. if you make them big enough..
[20:21:48] <anonimasu> :)
[20:21:50] <archivist> 150mm table possibly
[20:22:08] <anonimasu> hmm.. then 300 is more like it.. :)
[20:22:32] <archivist> steppers built in.....
[20:23:05] <tomp3> i'd love it at 300 but dont thing that 3900 pounds is way off target for value ( they're not out to screw you, they have competition )
[20:24:34] <fenn> make it big enough to mount one of those rotary tables from littlemachineshop
[20:25:13] <piasdom> hello
[20:25:22] <archivist> rotary will be in it no need to add your own
[20:26:25] <tomp3> http://www.mmkmatsumoto.com/
[20:26:45] <anonimasu> hmm..
[20:26:52] <piasdom> does anyone know the headers and/or source for this emc kernel ?
[20:27:22] <archivist> http://www.haas.co.uk/tr110.html
[20:27:24] <anonimasu> archivist: I think you shouldnt make them with motors..
[20:27:40] <cradek> piasdom: you can get them with apt, like every deb package
[20:28:05] <tomp3> anonimasu: had to get 6, had to add renishaw ring encoders, got very scared by costs, but theres' no cheap way to do somethings ( really just got scared cuz it wasnt my money ;)
[20:28:24] <anonimasu> tomp3: what?
[20:28:25] <archivist> or http://www.haas.co.uk/tr160.html
[20:28:38] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:28:45] <anonimasu> I know the feeling
[20:28:56] <anonimasu> it's even worse when it's your own company your purchasing stuff for..
[20:29:02] <tomp3> does haas build it? ( they are big on bein' all american built , but this is a specialty item )
[20:29:30] <fenn> archivist: do you know anyone who does iron casting?
[20:30:11] <archivist> fenn yes I can get reasonably local 1 or 30 miles
[20:30:18] <fenn> that's pretty good then
[20:31:02] <archivist> bit expensive atm though
[20:31:15] <jepler> piasdom: "apt-get install linux-headers-2.6.24-16-rtai" for headers
[20:31:34] <jepler> piasdom: apt-get source for the kernel source is a little trickier because ubuntu releases source packages that "apt-get source" thinks are newer than the rtai source.
[20:32:08] <jepler> piasdom: you can download it from http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/source/ though
[20:32:44] <jepler> (get .tar.gz and .dsc file, then use dpkg-source -x <packagename>.dsc to extract)
[20:33:17] <jepler> (that's assuming you're using ubuntu hardy, I didn't see whether you said)
[20:36:50] <piasdom> sorry....froze up
[20:38:03] <piasdom> anyone know the headers and/or source for this emc kernel ?
[20:38:15] <jepler> logger_emc: bookmark
[20:38:15] <jepler> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-10-14.txt
[20:38:26] <jepler> piasdom: I answered you, you can read it in the log: ^^
[20:38:52] <piasdom> i froze...had to restart ksirc
[20:39:11] <jepler> follow that link from logger and you will see what I said
[20:39:15] <piasdom> i'm not set to save log
[20:39:33] <piasdom> ok thanks...i'll try
[20:50:36] <skunkworks> hmm - seems that the current limit is working...
[20:50:50] <skunkworks> I will hook it to the pluto next.
[20:51:11] <anonimasu> :)
[20:54:21] <cradek> yay
[20:55:08] <skunkworks> looks like it should work down to 0 amps
[21:19:58] <Paragon> would 12Nm have a good chance at holding a rotary table by direct connection ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110277723352
[21:20:09] <anonimasu> yes
[21:20:23] <anonimasu> 12 NM!"#¤!#"
[21:20:32] <Paragon> £80
[21:20:41] <anonimasu> what the hell..
[21:21:03] <Paragon> thats like 2500 oz/in ~ right?
[21:21:23] <Paragon> maybe 2000 os/in
[21:21:40] <anonimasu> 106 Lbf-in
[21:22:11] <Paragon> quite a lot then ;-)
[21:23:09] <anonimasu> it's alot.
[21:23:12] <archivist> Paragon dont expect full torque if microstepping, nor inter step accuracy
[21:24:16] <archivist> but
[21:24:18] <Paragon> Step angle accuracy is stated at 5% full step, no load.
[21:26:05] <archivist> hmm /me contemplates a fat stepper sitting here
[21:26:19] <Paragon> lol
[21:27:47] <archivist> I dont think 200 steps is ok for direct drive
[21:28:12] <anonimasu> no, not nearly
[21:28:15] <Paragon> i bought 3 x controlers and stepper motors an 2 x power supplys from these people cost was around £100 all in :-)
[21:29:50] <Paragon> Sure, Thats the problem would need micro stepping but then as you mentioned the torque and accuracy trade off comes into question.
[21:30:06] <anonimasu> you should gear them alot and run them fast..
[21:31:08] <Paragon> I thinking about going with a belt drive and pulley. but then I am sure there will be slop in that system too.
[21:31:24] <anonimasu> thoose motors are 12Nm of holding torque..
[21:31:59] <Paragon> Yep thats a lot right....
[21:32:10] <anonimasu> and 8 when moving stuff slow..
[21:32:20] <archivist> yes look at the curve torque v speed it will drop rapidly
[21:32:21] <anonimasu> ideally you should gear so that 4Nm is enough to move your load..
[21:32:30] <anonimasu> and then spin them as fast as you have to..
[21:32:34] <anonimasu> contant power woohoo!
[21:34:05] <anonimasu> well, torque.
[21:34:47] <Paragon> pps? pulses per second?
[21:35:08] <anonimasu> yep
[21:36:06] <anonimasu> that would probably be steps per sec..
[21:36:16] <Paragon> so 4000 pps =~ 4.2Nm at 100V 6A
[21:36:19] <anonimasu> take the highest value and divide it by the amount of steps per rev..
[21:37:54] <anonimasu> that's 25r/sec
[21:37:59] <anonimasu> 1500r/min
[21:39:21] <Paragon> Thats way fast enough for the rotary table
[21:39:30] <Paragon> ;-)
[21:40:17] <archivist> I have 90-1 worm on my current rotary
[21:40:42] <anonimasu> 1500/50 = 30r/min
[21:41:09] <anonimasu> dosent that end up a bit slow if you want to use it for contouring?
[21:41:22] <anonimasu> * anonimasu thinks impellers ;)
[21:41:55] <Paragon> That is you use the reduction but what about direct?
[21:41:56] <toastydeath> depends on the toolpath but yeah
[21:41:59] <toastydeath> yjsy
[21:42:09] <toastydeath> depends on the rotab size, though
[21:42:17] <anonimasu> you probably need more torque..
[21:42:27] <anonimasu> * anonimasu cant remember the formula to calculate cutting loads
[21:43:06] <archivist> direct you will probably have a positional accuracy/finish problem
[21:43:34] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:43:38] <Paragon> Yeah i am sure your right.
[21:43:42] <archivist> ie what resolution/accuracy to you want
[21:43:46] <archivist> to/do
[21:43:47] <anonimasu> 1.8/deg is pretty shitty..
[21:43:52] <anonimasu> if doing direct drive..
[21:44:19] <archivist> a lot shitty snap end mills shitty
[21:44:27] <anonimasu> :)
[21:44:28] <anonimasu> yep
[21:44:42] <anonimasu> 7.2 X 106 N-m/rad
[21:44:49] <anonimasu> thats the specs for some torque motors
[21:44:55] <anonimasu> err no
[21:44:57] <Paragon> But with microstepping @ 4000 pps or even less to get higher torque?
[21:45:03] <toastydeath> paragon:
[21:45:12] <anonimasu> 13 X 106 N-m/rad
[21:45:17] <anonimasu> microstepping reduces torque..
[21:45:23] <toastydeath> direct drive tabels are essentially linear motors
[21:45:29] <toastydeath> *tables
[21:45:33] <anonimasu> that's for torque motor tables..
[21:45:50] <anonimasu> that means you need 13*10^6 Nm to move the table one radian
[21:46:46] <anonimasu> well, we cant look at torque motors anyway..
[21:46:54] <anonimasu> too much $$$$
[21:47:10] <anonimasu> http://machinedesign.com/ContentItem/62955/Torquemotorsdothetrick.aspx
[21:47:14] <archivist> holding torqu also does not say how springy the "detent" is at any step
[21:47:31] <anonimasu> yep that too
[21:47:50] <Paragon> Just been taking a look at the worm drive on the table i just bought... It's terrible...
[21:49:24] <Paragon> I think it was made in china though....
[21:49:26] <archivist> * archivist sees proper term on that page "Angular stiffness "
[21:49:28] <toastydeath> it's better than trying to direct drive a table
[21:49:40] <anonimasu> that's really what you want to know..
[21:49:59] <Paragon> Sure....
[21:50:02] <anonimasu> well, and the actual torque when in motion.
[21:50:28] <anonimasu> toastydeath: did you find that precision machine design book?
[21:50:46] <archivist> we all want to read it
[21:50:57] <anonimasu> hmm..
[21:51:12] <Paragon> Belt drive vs say a planetary drive (like the gear drives found in electric screwdrivers) ?
[21:51:22] <anonimasu> forget planetary..
[21:51:24] <toastydeath> anonimasu: NO, they were taken home
[21:51:27] <toastydeath> #$%^@#
[21:51:30] <anonimasu> toastydeath: ¤!"#home?
[21:51:50] <toastydeath> anyone who left a book in the thing was asked to take it home apparently
[21:51:58] <toastydeath> so i just have to buy them =(
[21:51:58] <anonimasu> damn
[21:52:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:52:06] <archivist> shame
[21:52:17] <anonimasu> I know I'll own them in a few years :)
[21:52:39] <fenn> Paragon: round tooth belts have no backlash
[21:52:42] <archivist> books is a bad habit
[21:52:52] <toastydeath> on the scale of bad habits
[21:52:56] <toastydeath> i'd say it's a pretty awesome bad habit
[21:53:01] <archivist> true
[21:53:03] <fenn> books is an obsession, not a habit
[21:53:09] <anonimasu> heh
[21:53:10] <archivist> I have it bad
[21:53:21] <anonimasu> it's a wonderful obsession though
[21:54:00] <Paragon> Timing belts do you mean?
[21:54:04] <fenn> yes
[21:54:20] <fenn> gates GT series
[21:54:32] <anonimasu> toastydeath: that's too bad, I guess we'll have to wait for you to buy it :)
[21:54:36] <toastydeath> hahaha
[21:54:38] <anonimasu> (just kidding)
[21:54:42] <toastydeath> TAKING DONATIONS
[21:54:50] <toastydeath> please paypal etc etc
[21:55:04] <Paragon> SDP/SI ...
[21:55:50] <toastydeath> archivist: where' the best kind of place to look for used science/philosophy books
[21:55:56] <toastydeath> any old used bookstore?
[21:56:31] <archivist> toastydeath, yes, but its a slog and after a while you find the best ones
[21:56:52] <archivist> Hay on Wye in the uk has a few shops
[21:57:10] <archivist> went twice this year
[21:57:15] <toastydeath> i think we have several "pretty good" ones here in delaware, usa
[21:57:23] <fenn> toastydeath: library inventory dump sales
[21:57:28] <toastydeath> hm!
[21:57:42] <archivist> supposed to be a good one in Stamford uk as well
[21:58:20] <archivist> and amazon has second hand but ive never bought that way
[21:59:19] <archivist> raiding other peoples collections (Lucas and a bereavement) got the bulk for me
[21:59:45] <toastydeath> i am just looking to fill out some reference stuff and philsophical classics
[21:59:49] <toastydeath> not really collect
[22:01:42] <fenn> these motor/gearbox are pretty cool:
[22:01:43] <fenn> http://www.onviollc.com/dotnetnuke/Cycloidal/SpeedReducersDOJEN/tabid/72/Default.aspx
[22:04:18] <Paragon> Nice ..... $$$$ ??
[22:04:41] <fenn> probably
[22:05:38] <archivist> also with built in servo motor....
[22:06:09] <fenn> i'm geeking out on cycloidal drives lately
[22:07:29] <archivist> * archivist stabs the site catalogue for thinking I run netscape
[22:07:58] <Paragon> Netscape ..... Me too :-)
[22:08:14] <Paragon> Well firefox.....
[22:10:40] <Paragon> I have a timing belt that i bought from sps by mistake the problem is it like 1.5 mtr in length and not joined. I am looking for a crimp tool of some sought. unless any of you know of a way to join them?
[22:12:03] <fenn> you can splice the belt by cutting off the teeth and half of the tension strands on each end
[22:12:16] <fenn> but it reduces the strength of the belt a lot
[22:13:50] <Paragon> Not sure if I follow you fenn...
[22:14:07] <archivist> joint would spoil the accuracy a bit as well
[22:15:25] <archivist> hmm belt cures my last backlash and mechanism folding problem
[22:16:15] <Paragon> This is were I purchased them from. The postage turned out to be more than the belts and pulley. Got hit by customs too :-( https://sdp-si.com/eStore
[22:17:08] <archivist> Sterling is sold in the UK by Davall, or was
[22:17:48] <Paragon> Sterling ... that a belt manufacturer?
[22:18:32] <archivist> SDP SI SI = Sterling
[22:18:58] <archivist> * archivist has catalogue in hand right now
[22:19:13] <Paragon> Oh OK was not aware of that.
[22:19:35] <fenn> here we go: Paragon http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/AssemblingDarwinMachinery#Z_belt
[22:20:39] <archivist> Paragon, their stuff should be available from www.davall.co.uk
[22:20:51] <fenn> dont forget the most important step: "Make a cup of Earl Grey tea and think British thoughts."
[22:20:58] <Paragon> Thanks Guys taking a look now...
[22:21:46] <archivist> bleh /me hates tea, Nescafe Gold Blend
[22:25:28] <archivist> Paragon, btw scrounge the sdp si catalogue from Davall it has a 236 page technical section
[22:34:19] <Paragon> Earl Grey ... :-)
[22:35:07] <Paragon> archivist: I will do... thanks for the heads up on these and fenn on the splicing technique.... :-)
[22:35:40] <archivist> just found the online catalogue request page on davalls site
[22:35:54] <archivist> and a few other things
[22:36:44] <Paragon> cool Just download a pdf catalogue but it's not the same as the real thing....
[22:37:48] <Paragon> Download is 180Mb and way to slow...
[22:42:59] <JymmmEMC> LOL http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-in-labs-stop-sending-mail-you-later.html#links
[22:46:15] <fenn> USB breathalyzer
[22:56:21] <JymmmEMC> fenn: Eh, ppl are too stupid
[22:57:24] <Paragon> lol
[23:02:59] <LawrenceG> hey Jymm
[23:03:26] <JymmmEMC> howdy
[23:05:53] <LawrenceG> has the Golden Gate been busy lately?
[23:06:00] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: ?
[23:06:30] <LawrenceG> stock market mayhem and all
[23:06:36] <JymmmEMC> ah, nfc.
[23:07:58] <LawrenceG> a heard you got your smoke machine wired
[23:08:22] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: s/smoke/fog/ Yeah, works pretty cool =)
[23:09:26] <LawrenceG> neet.... I was in the grocery store this morning... it seems it was a bumper crop of pumpkins this year... lots of really big ones
[23:11:53] <LawrenceG> now I just need that cnc pumpkin carver
[23:12:36] <archivist> Paragon, useful site for us brits http://www.bearingboys.co.uk
[23:13:32] <dmess> our new Fidia would do a nice pimpkin - 6 axes
[23:13:44] <dmess> pumpkin
[23:14:01] <archivist> pimp my pumpkin on a cnc
[23:14:18] <dmess> for 500 bucks an hour
[23:14:58] <archivist> * archivist does 4 axis for less :)
[23:15:15] <dmess> naw the cleanup would be a mess the high pressure coolant would destroy the pimpedkin
[23:16:14] <LawrenceG> 5axis water jet would do the trick.... it would make a big tub of pumpkin soup
[23:16:17] <dmess> maybe use the thru tool with a 1/8" thru cooland gun drill and use it as a waterjet
[23:32:14] <spasticteapot> Does anyone here have any advice on where to get a replacement lathe belt?
[23:32:21] <spasticteapot> I'm currently using a camera strap.
[23:32:37] <spasticteapot> archivist: How much for 4-axis CNCing?
[23:32:39] <spasticteapot> :)
[23:36:27] <anonimasu> high pressure coolant isnt really waterjet high pressure ;)
[23:45:12] <dmess> for a pimpkin' i'd split the differance ;)
[23:46:26] <dmess> 4200 psi from the pump.. thru a .030" oriffice... im not putting MY hand over it
[23:47:20] <spasticteapot> I've always wondered if a diesel fuel injector could be used for waterjet cutting.
[23:47:23] <dmess> pup to head is 1.5" dia. hydraulic hoses
[23:47:59] <anonimasu> 4200psi is just 300bar..
[23:48:03] <anonimasu> 289..
[23:48:16] <dmess> how much volume do they run... pretty low even on the big ones i worked on
[23:48:29] <dmess> si
[23:48:36] <anonimasu> uh?
[23:48:42] <dmess> yes
[23:48:54] <anonimasu> for the huydralics I work with we run at 200l/min
[23:49:38] <anonimasu> waterjets run at 90000psi btw.. 6 205.28156 bar
[23:49:40] <anonimasu> :p
[23:50:04] <dmess> ive run all sorts of hydraulic sytems.. constant speed/tension/torque
[23:50:41] <dmess> but we WERE talking a pumpkin here...;(
[23:50:57] <anonimasu> hehe *grins*
[23:51:06] <anonimasu> even 5bar would cut it ;)
[23:51:13] <anonimasu> well, bedtime
[23:51:22] <dmess> gnite.. be well
[23:51:44] <spasticteapot> Curiously enough, diesel injection can manage up to approx. 2,000 bar.
[23:51:51] <spasticteapot> I wonder if you could cut anything with that?
[23:52:05] <anonimasu> spasticteapot: I wouldnt mess with that stuff..
[23:52:10] <anonimasu> pressure intensifiers = deadly
[23:52:14] <dmess> WHAT volume SPAS
[23:52:16] <spasticteapot> Pressure intensifiers?
[23:52:25] <spasticteapot> dmess: Good question.
[23:52:32] <anonimasu> pretty much big pumps to raise the pressure up to 2000bar :p
[23:52:45] <anonimasu> and what kindof hose would you use?
[23:53:06] <spasticteapot> anonimasu: I'd take the pump and hose from a diesel car.
[23:53:06] <dmess> many little pistons.. NO volume
[23:53:19] <spasticteapot> dmess: Great big pickup truck....EFFING HUGE VOLUME.
[23:53:27] <dmess> it isnt needed in a fuely pump
[23:53:28] <spasticteapot> Also, those pistons need fuel very, very often.
[23:53:29] <anonimasu> well, big pump assembly ;)
[23:53:48] <anonimasu> spasticteapot: I think you are simplifying this alot
[23:54:51] <anonimasu> :)
[23:55:05] <anonimasu> at 2000bar things start getting scary.
[23:55:25] <dmess> but its all steel and has NO coorosion resistance ( it was meant for oil) so it'll ROT in no time under pressure
[23:55:55] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[23:56:01] <spasticteapot> Dieseljet injection, anyone?
[23:56:14] <anonimasu> :D
[23:56:24] <dmess> im not running it for ya
[23:56:47] <spasticteapot> :P
[23:57:03] <spasticteapot> That said, it's not that hard to find a low-viscosity oil with a high flashpoint.
[23:57:09] <spasticteapot> Turbine grease, for example.
[23:57:14] <dmess> plan 'B'---- exit stage LEFT
[23:57:39] <BigJohnT> ok babbalouie
[23:57:48] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:59:36] <dmess> some early Canadian Avro tubines could burn CORN pellets...