in soviet russia, off wanders YOU
i am attempting to connect jog wheel to an open encoder channel on my pico-systems board. I added the following lines to a .hal file:
net rawjogcounts ppmc.0.encoder.06.count => ilowpass.0.in net jogcounts ilowpass.0.out => axis.0.jog-counts
scratch that last line
I added: loadrt ilowpass setp ilowpass.0.scale 100 setp ilowpass.0.gain .01
addf ilowpass.0 servo-thread
net rawjogcounts ppmc.0.encoder.06.count => ilowpass.0.in net jogcounts ilowpass.0.out => axis.0.jog-counts
How do I set it such that the axis that is currently selected in axis will be jogged by the encoder?
Guest502: the axis gui creates a number of pins, one for each axis. you connect them to axis.#.jog-enable. this can only be done in the "postgui halfile", which axis calls once it has created its own hal pins. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_axis.html#sub:Physical-jog-wheels
here's the contents of my own postgui hal file, it's the last 3 lines you're interested in. http://git.unpy.net/view?p=zenbot.git;a=blob;f=postgui.hal;h=51854e057f7975e430cdf47a909c4143390f54ef;hb=e01faccd047fdbf31ad2d3b694260f32ecc642ef
you'll also want to cnnect ilowpass.0.out to axis.1.jog-counts and so forth
Man, even minor electrical items are hard to come by "off the shelf" anymore.
I tried finding an 1/2" threaded strain relief for a 2 gang box today (which I've bought from HD in the past), they no longer carry such a thing.
I had to rape an old project for one.
And gawd help ya if you want a 3 gang ext box
Can't even find a 3 gang blank cover now.
nice, easy to handle small parts: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/gilbert-with-part-2662.jpg
jmkasunich: But it's so tiny, how can you even see the parts?
jmkasunich: is that the one that might be converted?
it seems like all that shop does is big stuff
they have 4 or 5 HBMs
what does it look like?
lots of various parts, not one of which a man could lift
what does what look like?
amps and such
ge hi-ak DC amps, 90V, about 35A or so
one two-bay cabinet with incoming power, fuses, contactors, etc
another two bay half high one with the amps
and a one-bay tall one with the control itself
motors have tachs only
axes have inductosyn scales
lewin1 is now known as lewing
there is no feedback from the motors to the control - scales go to control, tachs go to drives
however, there are stub-shafts, and encoders could be fitted
nice = dual loop?
they want to use table feedback
there is some question about the inductosyns - apparently they've been giving trouble
inductosyns? some sort of linear magnetic feedback?
[02:19:08] <jmkasunich> http://www.inductosyn.com/linear_transducers.htm
I think its sort of like an unrolled resolver
I was invisoning this http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/accupins.JPG
there are inductosyns on three linear axes, and a resolver on the quill
I thought about that too, but thats not it
there is a zig-zag wire (or two of them) on the long scale, and matching wires on the slider
current in one induces a voltage in the other
from the wiring diagram it looks like they excite two windings with signals 90 degrees out of phase, and look at the phase of the third
looks like they sell a inductorsyn to quadrature converter
wonder how much that is
probably not cheap
from what I'm reading (and what I saw on the prints), an inductosyn is _very_ similar to a resolver, and can be converted with similar circuitry
I wonder if Jon Elson's resolver boards would work
hmmm. the inductosyn is more line an antenna than a transformer (like a resolver)
why do you say that?
the coupling is dominated by magnetic fields, not electromagnetic
if the zig-zag you mentioned is on a multi meter long axis, then it's an antenna
though at 12 kHz the antenna properties shouldn't be too bad
the pitch of the zigzag is 0.1 or 0.2"
overall length is also important for drive and reflection reasons, but I guess in the kHz range it's not going to matter muc
(I'm used to 300MHz or higher, so when I hear about big things instead of little things getting driven, it raises red flags)
SWPadnos: Step forth and accept your beatings!!!
standard excitation is 10KHz, a wavelength is 30km
I have enough beatings, thanks
not nearly enough
handy item: http://www.isscnc.com/html/vega2875501.htm
I am looking around for a set of font gcodes (I may want to engrave a replacement front panel) and have run across (on EMC wiki) "cxf2cnc convert qcad's stick fonts to g-code" which is a python program. But before I go to a lot of trouble, does EMC have a built-in function for this? Has anyone here converted fonts to gcode? Any advice for me on this?
lawrence glaister made a gui frontend for cxf2cnc, i havent used it though
jepler still around?
i happen to think cxf2cnc is easy to use, but i wrote it so my opinion doesn't count
Jepler was giving me some help in setting up a physical jog wheel earlier, anyone in here have an experience with such things?
fenn: Thanks, this looks like exactly what I need. And I should be able to copy the gcode to a non-EMC machine (necessary for now) :( I'll look at the qcad fonts, but I'm just looking for simple block-letter one-line fonts, nothing fancy, easy to engrave, etc.. I looked at Chris Radek's TrueTypeTracer, which would be OK too, but apparently it needs AutoCAD to fill in the interior of the letters? (I don't have AutoCAD). Or have I mi
Oops, flooding again, sorry.
ttt doesn't fill in the letters, not sure what autocad has to do with anything
I think he talked about using AutoCad to put in hashes to fill the interior
But maybe I misunderstood
fenn: anyway, thanks for writing this
btw i like 'normal.cxf'
does anyone see anything incorrect with this line: net jogincr-big axisui.jog.increment => scale.0.in
if I hard code scale.0.in .001 my jog wheel works but when I set it to the current jog increment set in axis I get no responce
fenn: OK, thanks, I'll look at 'normal.cxf' first. Any advice on the engraving process? I haven't decided whether to use 2-color-plastic or anodized aluminum, but am leaning toward the aluminum for this application. Any advice or comments? Has anyone here ever done a front panel?
i have engraved anodized AL and I have found that I get the best results when I cut as shallow as possible
deep cuts leave a jagged edge in the anodizing
My DOC is about .005-.008 Spinning 85K feed 30ipm with a .016 cutter
I've never used an end mill that small, what sizes were you using? How did you chuck them? What feedrate did you settle on? Ha, you're way ahead of me.
I used center drills for awhile and any variation in the depth made it look bad
Wow, how did you get 85K RPM? What's your setup?
I use a collet to hold the endmills they have step up shanks to .125
its pneumatic from air turbines
It has a 1" straight shank that I chuck up in a collet
Nifty. I think I'll have to settle for less and reduce the feedrate
I used to use the spindle directly at 4k and feed like 10ipm, it was rough on the cutters
Maybe I can figure out a way to chuck a die grinder or router
I could get maybe 15-25K RPM
I would feed faster than 30 with the air turbine but i dont like how hard my machine changes direction
the run out on a grinder or router makes it a waste of time
I think you will get a very poor finish
If it is a one time deal just use whatever you can get out of the spindle
At least I only have to do one or two so I'm not concerned about the production rate
use something smaller than 1/8 its amazing how clean thin lines look in black anodizing
OK, that would work too, I guess, saves having to kludge a second spindle
did you leave the lines as cut or fill them with anything?
I leave them, I have a customer that filled them with a paint
how did the paint fill work out?
It looked great but it took a long time and the lines I gave him where very wide
do you know if he painted with a small brush or used a squeegee?
For a control panel I think I would wax it after machining. Over time cutting fluid will find its way onto the bare metal and make it look dirty
he used a syringe
fenn and Guest471: Thanks very much for your help and advice.
Guest471: sorry I don't know the answer to your handwheel question. Can anyone help Guest471 with a handwheel question?
KimK_IA_: what do you use to make your G code?
toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
I am planning to use a Dynapath (Autocon) because it is what is available.
never heard of it
But I am planning to do some EMC2 retrofits, so we'll see
dynapath is the controller that your using?
It's a nice control. I think Hurco bought them out, but are still making them? Haven't checked since I discovered EMC2 :)
what do you use to make your code?
I just write it, no CAM. That's why I needed help with the font situation. But Dynapath was known for it's "conversational" programming, which was a favorite of many.
oops. it's > its
I messed with a hurco, was not a big fan of the conversational programming, the tool paths were too slow, safe but slow
I never used a Hurco, so can't say. And yes, you could usually improve the production rates of the conversational result. But it got you started pretty easily, and was great for singles and small runs.
On the Dynapath, I usually write straight EIA code anyway, though.
I wish I had the patience needed to write a fairly complex g-code program by hand
Yeah, well, if I had to write a really complex g-code program, I would probably throw in the towel, LOL. I usually run into what most people on a forum like this would call simple jobs, no undulating surfaces, etc.
Just drill some holes, make some pockets or bosses, remove some material, etc. Don't have to make an impeller blade, as someone was discussing earlier.
gcode gets easy after you do it
the hard part of gcode is just getting into the habit of reflex typing
if your machine is a runner leave it alone, EMC is good but it can be a pain at times. Little things that refuse to work and take days to track down.
in the beginning you have to stop and thing about every dumb thing
tell me some of the (currently) painful things about EMC.
mill or lathe?
I'm planning both, so, both I guess
lathe doesn't have the roughing cycles.
which, imho, is critical on a lathe.
OK, good to know. But I'm sure that's on their list of things to do. I know they are always working on it. What else?
cutter comp on lathes are H words which is odd
i don't use emc, i have just played around with it in sim mode
the constant updating seems good but if your machine is not on the network a royal pain
so i don't want to rag
but the best thing i can summarize it is that it's completely different from any other control.
to make any custom hardware work you need to write code, and that can get annoying
Yes, I'm sim only too, so far. I hope to order a Mesa card setup soon, though, and start playing with a bench test setup.
Don't get me wrong I have 3 machines running it and another 2 in the works
pico-systems makes nice hardware
it's a great control for a rebuilt machine that you don't want to spend money on to get running
i wish the rebuilt machines at work had it
rather than the crazy thing they've got
I agree it is perfect for breathing life into old iron
what kind of "annoying" custom hardware? Internal, like I/O cards and so forth? External, like machine features, etc.?
kimk_ia__: to whom are you asking that
Custom hardware like jog wheels or tool turrets
Oh, OK. And you have that situation right now with your handwheel. Are there any ini or hal files posted with a handwheel for examples?
toastydeath: what "crazy" control do your machines have?
There are but I have yet to properly wrap my head around HAL
kimk_ia__: various random things small refitters sell
i don't even know what brand, they're just awful and don't pay them any mind
Guest471: If you can point me to some of the examples you're looking at, maybe we can figure it out?
The hardest part about converting is tuning the drives
toastydeath: Haha, OK, I'll avoid looking at them, LOL
Tuning shouldn't be that hard, what kind of drive systems have you had to tune so far? (Type of motor and drive, etc.)
kimk_ia__: don't worry, they're all custom frontends for "real" machine control PLC's
so unless you live near PA, you won't encounter them
Tuning should be especially easy with all the halscope features that EMC2 has
I have used rutex and pico-systems drives, motors are whatever was on the machine can't recall the brands 90V 10A
Should be easy using the scope and makeing adjustments
It just takes forever.
you get a tune that follows perfectly but will overshoot, or a tune that stops on the button but will not follow
I don't know the internals of those, were they tach-gen DC systems (older), PID AC brushless systems (newer), or something else, maybe?
PID DC systems
So in-between-age, maybe? OK.
Have you gone to any of the CNC workshops in Galesburg, IL? I went to the last one and found it very helpful.
That would be a long road trip from Ca.
I know some came from at least as far as Vermont, maybe farther?
Maybe you'll run across a person or group to carpool with for next year?
Everyone on EMC is helpful, like I said it is a great for bringing a dead machine back to life.
What machines have you done now, and what are you planning?
i was interested in that too
most only have a mill or a lathe
Yeah, just when it was getting good
you said EMC2 was completely different, what are some of the differences, and as compared to which other controls?
emc has a "unique" user interface, and it takes it's own approach to gcode
it follows the same general rules, but some things are just not the same (like the H word in lathe mode)
most machine controls are modal, you turn a knob or press a button to set a machine to auto (run the program), edit, mdi, jog, etc
that sets up some pretty big user interface differences.
depending on your viewpoint, it does some things a lot better, but it also does things worse
Not to ask a stupid Q (assuming this has been discussed here before) but why did they use H for diameter instead of D?
lathes don't use either, is the problem
but it's a holdover from early g-code
g43/g44 take the H word as the height offset.
on lathes, it's part of the toolchange parameter - T0101
tool 1, offset 1
T0202, tool 2, offset 2
T0204, tool 2, offset 4
there is no G43/G44
Oh, OK. If they did it to maintain compatibility with older eqpt, then fine.
no, it's unique
no other control back to like the 70's did it that way, lathes have always been T####
emc's lathe mode is almost identical to mill mode
which is not how most controls function. Whether that's a bad thing or just different is up to you
Oh, you mean EMC2 does not use the T0202 method? Oh, I guess not, there you are.
So EMC2 uses T01 H01 or similar?
OK. And also a one-digit nose direction code, I'd guess.
I believe all that's in the tool setup thing.
In the table, I mean?
gcode does not handle the actual implementation or parameters of the cutter comp, it just turns it on or off
OK, well, maybe the lathe has been the weak sister up till now, but there are a lot of guys running lathes that would want EMC, so we'll see
don't get me wrong
if i was building any machine tool and wanted to use a control
I'd use emc
but it doesn't compete with commercial controls.
Where else is it lacking, do you think? (lathe or mill)
it's got a lot of features that interest hobby-oriented folks, but lack features that make life working with commerical controls easy
mostly UI stuff, imho
it's missing some of the nicer canned cycles
the ui is 70% of my complaint
What commercial control are you used to?
the tool tables don't have an online editor
Fanuc, and Mitsubishi
the tool table is a file on emc, on fanuc/haas/mitsubishi/everyone else it's a menu
you don't have to edit the file, save it, and reload it
i can change any parameter while the machine is running and it'll take up on the very next line on a Fanuc
it doesn't seem like much, but at work if I'm making 400 of something, I want to adjust tool wear with as little interruption as possible
so I'll start the next part and will adjust the finish offsets while the part is being roughed out
doesn't matter much if you only make one of something, and it's small
commercial controls also have really good features for bumping around in a program and mixing it up with mdi/handwheel moves
* toastydeath shrug
OK, tool table editor doesn't sound too hard to implement. Assuming it would work as you desire now by leaving open a tool table editor page and pressing save after changes. I mean as far as re-doing any look-ahead, etc.
right but it isn't implemented.
it would also take proper look ahead
which emc doesn't have.
OK. Real Soon Now, I'd guess. We've got to get those guys a raise.
not an issue for most stuff, because most people don't want to run a home machine at 50 IPM.
or 400 IPM.
What's wrong with the look-ahead, BTW?
it doesn't have it?
I thought it did. It doesn't?
nope, not true look ahead.
it blends moves together to keep the accel and whatnot under control, but that's not look ahead
there are problems with machines that try to run at fast speeds, like 80 ipm on a 40x20 bed mill
the machine iron is easily able to do that cut
but the control will do excessive blending on the radius.
rather, the intersection will become a radius on a 90 degree corner
but look ahead is like, the hardest thing on a control to implement.
so i'm not as pressed about that as other things.
Does it give an error at an inside 90 corner with an end mill? (cutter comp on? cutter comp off?)
has nothing to do with cutter comp
it has everything to do with the machine trying to blend two moves, both at high feed rates
and it tries to do this by starting the second move while the first is still going
that's a perfectly legitimate strategy for slower machining, and very few emc users run into it that i have seen
again, unless you plan on running your machine that fast.
then you need to be pedantic about your toolpaths and program exact stops.
Isn't there a gcode just for this? Wait until "in position" before continuing with next step, or something like that?
which can cause other problems, but at least the form will be right.
no, there isn't
not to do it "right"
exact stop will make sure the machine hits a spot, but it brings all axes to a stop to do so
and at high speeds, that's not an acceptable thing to do
it's okay at 30-40 ipm
not at 80.
Is there a parameter for this, since it involves the amount of error that is "acceptable"?
this problem cannot be solved without look ahead.
that's why machine controls went to using look ahead, because all the parameter-based solutions cause other, undesirable effects at speed
the real solution is to cut slower if the control doesn't support sufficient look ahead.
but really, do you plan on moving your machine at 50 ipm?
I'm not sure what look ahead could do, if you have to stop one axis before starting the next. If you had a parameter to allow a little lead-off (error) then maybe?
look ahead basically generates a velocity map
for the next few moves
and that's what you need to do if you're going to be changing directions arbitrarily
the control doesn't know how slow it needs to go to make the corner.
look ahead tells it that.
a 5 degree angle can be taken a lot faster than a 170 degree angle, and you can't tell what's what without look ahead.
OK, then there must be parameters for maximum possible drive acceleration? (So it knows how much to slow down based on how fast it can speed up again?)
yes, there are.
all controls have those.
otherwise even a control like EMC would blow the thrust bearings of the axis out the first time it came to a stop
the issue is like being in a car going around a blind corner.
if you are a rally driver, you have a navigator telling you what's head
if you're joe blow, you have to obey the posted speed limits or go off-road when an unexpectely sharp corner comes up.
OK, then maybe the guys are trying to write a general look ahead solution for all cases. You're saying that 40 is OK but not 80, and maybe you have in mind milling. But maybe for other machines (lasers? wire foam? dunno?) the values might be different. So they might be working on a general solutiion?
they aren't working on look ahead, imho?
it's a very difficult problem and they're doing other things that have far more utility to the average user.
OK. Well that's good too.
it's just something to be aware of if you're going to be doing something darn quick.
some guy was in here and had iron that was running at 120-200 ipm
and the shapes coming out were horrendous
but most dudes are interested in 15-20 ipm tops, and lathes it's under that
so you should be fine.
OK, glad to hear it. Thanks for the tip. I'm sure look ahead will come around eventually.
BTW, what was he cutting at 120-200 IPM?
aluminum, but also some steel.
Do you have any advice on PC hardware? I'm looking pretty hard at the Mesa "anything I/O" system.
all my cnc experience is on commercial stuff
[10:30:54] <fragalot> http://walmart.ca/wps-portal/storelocator/Canada-Forthehome.jsp?category=listingDetails&page=fth&lang=null&assetId=31120&imageId=44242&suggestedItem=&priceType=1&page=null&departmentId=16&categoryId=16
now THAT is one revolutionary can opener
Dallur you're in iceland?
HAWT FSCKING DAMN!!!!!!!! It works!!! WOOHOO!!!!! (Now, to get it all to fit in the box =)
I think the issue with the gcode.ulp is I had 2 pours close togather.. The clearences settings don't seem to effect that.
skunkworks_: script probably has trouble with determining what are separate entities
try moving them slightly further apart
fenn: that is the plan. :)
in the meantime you can just jumper the trace right?
heh, this works awesome!!!
I used a knife and carved a isolation - hardly can tell
[18:11:56] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/DSC_5094.JPG
it is the slightly curved isolation in the lower left area - horizontle
between the lower large pour and the next most left pour
Does anyone here know a place I can get acrylic cut cheaply?
pololu will do it for $2.50 a minute.
I need some big "D" shaped pieces - airfoil ribs - cut out of 1/4" acrylic.
are we talking 8ft x 4ft ?
* spasticteapot looks up ATX specs.
About 27" x 10".
Maybe a little less.
No fine detail.
Just a big "D" shape (with the bit in the middle cut out.)
you could use a router
I hadn't thought of that.
What sort of bit?
since you are not concerned about the finish
I am concerned about the finish.
That's why I was going to do it with a laser.
then look up laser cutting places in the phoen book
dont expect it to be cheap.
how many pieces?
even if you get them thrown in in a already setup batch of parts.. :/
anonimasu: can't do that, he'll have to bring in is own drawing
ofcourse, that implies that it's already drawn
spasticteapot: how many pieces?
anonimasu: easy enough if it's just a 'D' shape
JymmmEMC: ofcourse, that dosent make it cheap..
I was going to do eight.
are $2.50 too expensive?
8pcs, eh maybe $100
I have no idea how many minutes this would be.
I think that sounds pretty good
I just found a place with 100W "doughnut" laser diodes for $250...
lasers arent very slow machines..
anonimasu: I might consider another material.
anonimasu: will depend on what finish he wants
JymmmEMC/Cradek: Yup I'm in Iceland
if they use a good laser they should be able to cut it in a few minutes..
Could I router and polish the acrylic?
Dallur1: ah, ok
anonimasu: I'll E-mail them.
JymmmEMC: was away before, building the boat :)
spasticteapot: Sure, but it'll tkae you a LONG time to polish it
I know a guy with a CNC router who will owe me a favor in the near future.
if they use a good laser they should be able to cut it in a few minutes..
JymmmEMC: need to finish it ASAP and leave :D
Plan B is to just use some aluminum and give it a REALLY glossy coat of paint.
anonimasu: A lot of the price examples were for fiddly little intricate htings.
I've just got big "D's".
I'd rotue it clean the edges up then flame polish them..
It's for an art project - a computer case in the shape of an airfoil.
anonimasu: For aluminum?
anonimasu: Heh, that's not as easy as you make it out to be =)
no, for acrylic
JymmmEMC: ofcourse not
anonimasu: I have no idea of how to do that.
OTOH...acrylic is cheap, and I have every torch known to man.
plus, you'll need an oxy-propane torch too
like propane flame and acrylic..
spasticteapot: you have a oxy-propane torch?
Jymm: I've got acetylne, oxy-acetylene, mapp, oxy-mapp, propane, and a bench-mounted oxy-propane torch for pyrex.
well, that'll work
I might be able to use propane with my oxy-mapp torch, though.
try it with a piece of acrlic..
anonimasu: Which one? :)
spasticteapot: dont use MAPP gas
spasticteapot: dont use MAPP gas on acrylic
anonimasu: It's bench-mounted.
well, it dosent stop you from trying right?
OTOH, my oxy-mapp torch uses the little mini canisters of MAPP gas.
Propane canisters should fit, too.
Also, the oxy-propane torch burns stupidly hot.
spasticteapot: that's he point
Either it's making huge clouds of smoke, or it's capable of melting borosilicate glass.
fast fast fast..
Jymm: Can I use oxy-acetylene?
that's worse than mapp
Just curious - I trust your judgement.
How is it worse?
I'm assuming you want the acrylic to be clear
and not full of dark tinted residue
I think it's because it burns clean
while acetylene burns with black smoke..
which fills the pores or the acrylic
[18:55:54] <anonimasu> http://www.overclock.net/case-mods-general-discussion/388518-flame-polish-acrylic-alcohol-reaction-catastrophic.html
there you got a good example..
alchol == hair line fractures
yeah but it shows him flame polishing it too
Okay, oxy-propane it is.
Oxy-propane burns cooler than oxy-mapp, right?
Dallur1: where are you going to go? i hear thailand is nice...
yeah, but that depends on what nozzle.
fenn: anywhere and everywhere, to begin with I just want to leave Iceland, it's pretty much bankrupt now
spasticteapot: One hint... PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE, and then PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE some more on some scrap before you start on the real thing.
He's using a tiny butane torch.
spasticteapot: Hey, it's your money... go ahead try propane alone, then go out and buy MORE acrylic sheet when it fscks up =)
Dallur1: can i have your dome?
poululu will probably sell you acrylic if you want it lasered too..
they probably arent too keen on messing with your material..
fenn: sure, but you will probably have to fight starving mobs to pick it up :)
(but that's just what I think)
I may be weong
spastic But, dont listen to me, I've never worked with acrylic before. Nope, never ever... http://farm1.static.flickr.com/84/206158222_cb5c34978c.jpg
Dallur1 is now known as Dallur
Got the mition sensor for the fog machine completed today... works awesome!!!
sounds like close to halloween..
Gotta scare the shit out of the lil rat bastards some how!
Can't just walk up and knock on the door, they gotta earn that candy =)
* fenn suggests removing the steps
do they still teach rope climbing in schools?
Not a bad idea, but I don't have enough liability insurance nor enough places to hide the bodies
and they can still throw the eggs high enough I guess
that's why you need an emc-controlled sentry gun (to shoot the eggs before they hit)
That's ok, I could retrofit the motion sensor for that
this is too exciting for me :P
* alex_joni is off to bed
it's easily portable, looks like a lil animal
$20 fog machine, $60 to make the motion sensor
Now, if I could figure out how to wire in my cheap MP3 player, I could have sound effects sync'ed to when they walk up.
spastic_teapot is now known as spasticteapot