#emc | Logs for 2008-10-05

[00:36:06] <maddash> join #paranoidlinux
[02:09:42] <Paragon> testing
[02:11:11] <Paragon> Unable to connect via chatzilla "connection refused" on this laptop... not sure why?
[03:18:02] <undrill_> undrill_ is now known as undrill
[03:31:22] <coden4life> anyone tell me how to set pin 4 7 and 14 on the parallel always to high.... and is it possible to use 4 pins for step sequence or will I need to edit and recompile emc to get it to use a 4 pin sequence instead of step and direction 2 pin method?
[03:34:25] <jmkasunich> you can use 4 pins
[03:34:51] <jmkasunich> see the HAL manual - there are about 14 different "step types", including several that use 4 pins
[03:35:21] <jmkasunich> to set certain parport pins always high, link them (in HAL) to a signal that is always high
[03:35:26] <coden4life> ty very much
[03:35:43] <coden4life> did not know where to start to look and the hal files I have not checked
[03:36:00] <jmkasunich> something like "net high parport.0.pin-04-out parport.0.pin-07-out" then "sets high 1"
[03:36:50] <jmkasunich> for the stepping type, you'll see most hal files do "loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0" you will want to change the zeros to some other number
[04:37:34] <tomp3> http://www.skeinforge.com/skeinforge_tools.fillet.html (goin to sleep now but it sounded like a blending util)
[04:39:36] <tomp3> http://ideegeniali.altervista.org/progetti/?p=gcoderotator
[05:14:56] <dan_the_welder> hello
[05:18:46] <dan_the_welder> anyone in the ouse?
[05:18:50] <dan_the_welder> house?
[05:40:41] <toastydeath> hai
[05:44:52] <dan_the_welder> hai
[05:45:07] <dan_the_welder> are we lol cats?
[05:45:09] <dan_the_welder> heh
[05:45:57] <crotchetyGuy> crotchetyGuy is now known as crotchet
[05:47:06] <dan_the_welder> so, I have a weird problem
[05:48:07] <dan_the_welder> emc starts but there is no visible axis window, it's all running according to the system monitor... but invisibly!!
[06:07:25] <dan_the_welder> any takers?
[06:17:37] <JymmmEMC> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/offbeat/2008/10/03/vo.canada.bear.ap
[11:27:12] <fragalot> hmm.
[11:27:13] <fragalot> guys
[11:27:27] <fragalot> reckon this could work? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15511
[11:29:15] <fragalot> Nvm
[11:46:10] <BigJohnT> dang sun is not even up yet in this part of the world fragalot
[11:56:33] <fragalot> BigJohnT: as if that means anything to you guys ;)
[11:56:41] <BigJohnT> :)
[11:57:36] <BigJohnT> good to know they have express slot serial cards now that I don't need one anymore
[11:58:57] <fragalot> BigJohnT: doesn't work tho
[11:59:10] <fragalot> apparently, it's no better than a $5 USB thing
[11:59:51] <BigJohnT> there is two USB to serial things that work for my PLC communications, the cheap ones don't work
[12:06:19] <fragalot> which?
[12:06:47] <fragalot> the one I have is fairly expensive, but it's USB->serial->parallel
[12:10:14] <BigJohnT> hmm Keyspan is the one I use
[12:10:23] <BigJohnT> I forget the other one at the moment
[12:28:28] <fragalot> Well,... This sucks ^_^
[14:08:04] <JymmmEMC> http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,20228383,00.html
[14:10:21] <SWPadnos> http://advice.thisoldhouse.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=258&d=1192138552
[14:11:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: lol
[14:18:02] <JymmmEMC> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/offbeat/2008/10/03/vo.canada.bear.ap
[14:19:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey, did I tell ya that I got vmserver2 installed?
[14:19:13] <SWPadnos> yep, I think you did
[14:19:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, I had vBox previously, so I wasn't sure
[14:19:48] <SWPadnos> oh - vmserver - maybe not :)
[14:20:29] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yeah, the console is web based. So you can Remote Consolle into a VM via a browser plugin
[14:20:36] <SWPadnos> cool
[14:21:05] <JymmmEMC> a 25mb plugin, but if you connect once locally, you have it for when on the road.
[14:21:11] <JymmmEMC> s/25/15/
[14:21:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You can even restrict VM access to per person.
[14:23:08] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I should clean one of my desks
[14:23:14] <SWPadnos> then I can put acomputer there
[14:23:27] <SWPadnos> then I can actually migrate over to the new workstationn
[14:23:34] <SWPadnos> then I can mess with vmware/vbox ;)
[14:24:02] <SWPadnos> then I can clean the other desk, then the floor, then the closet
[14:24:19] <SWPadnos> then I can rip out the walls and actually get the network wiring installed correctly
[14:24:23] <JymmmEMC> vbox has that dual license, and the OpenSource one has no USB
[14:24:30] <SWPadnos> and *then* it'll be tax time again
[14:24:33] <SWPadnos> :(
[14:24:38] <SWPadnos> bummer
[14:24:55] <JymmmEMC> The other lic is Personal use only, and has USB
[14:25:22] <fragalot> vmware-server is free and supports USB just fine
[14:25:30] <SWPadnos> yes
[14:25:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: When I got it installed (vmserver2), I cp a vm from the mac, it asked if I moved or copied it, and started up perfectly
[14:26:10] <SWPadnos> yep. that's the major draw for me
[14:26:41] <SWPadnos> I've thought about setting up a computer with a minimal OS and VMs on their own partitions
[14:26:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: BTW... It's running on that crappiertop under ubuntu 8.04.1 AMD64 w/ 3GB
[14:26:50] <SWPadnos> upgrade OS, no problem
[14:26:54] <fragalot> JymmmEMC: /ALWAYS/ say you moved it, lol
[14:26:55] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:27:06] <fragalot> JymmmEMC: atleast, if you want to keep it's networking settings
[14:27:09] <JymmmEMC> fragalot: Nope, copy it
[14:27:16] <SWPadnos> I just upgraded my laptop - it's got a 200G drive and 4G RAM now
[14:27:26] <JymmmEMC> the craptop?
[14:27:31] <SWPadnos> I may look into CPU and video upgrades at some point
[14:27:32] <SWPadnos> yes
[14:27:45] <JymmmEMC> cpu upgrades on it?! yeow
[14:27:46] <fragalot> JymmmEMC: I have custom network settings for the VM's, if i say I copied it, I lose those,.. thats why i always make it think i moved them.
[14:27:48] <SWPadnos> it still lasts close to 2 hours on a charge (actually doing things)
[14:27:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:28:03] <SWPadnos> that's part of the reason why it's so big - it's actually pretty modular
[14:28:26] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: gotcha. So, when you installing that paraport module =)
[14:28:35] <SWPadnos> bah - who needs it? :)
[14:28:54] <SWPadnos> it does have expresscard though, so if there's a parport card available I could
[14:28:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Um, I can think of one person who did =)
[14:29:15] <JymmmEMC> there are
[14:29:23] <SWPadnos> I just tested the RT kernel - it's actually not too bad on the base thread - maybe 15000 latency
[14:29:34] <SWPadnos> the servo thread had gazillions of ns though
[14:29:50] <JymmmEMC> heh
[14:30:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you play with git yet?
[14:30:45] <anonimasu> http://unit.aist.go.jp/amri/group/finemfg/English/research/Microfactory/CPT2002.pdf
[14:31:03] <SWPadnos> not too much, but some
[14:31:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: cool, I might hit you up as some of it I dont get
[14:31:29] <SWPadnos> me either ;)
[14:33:23] <fragalot> anonimasu: me likes.
[14:34:34] <anonimasu> I think it's very cool :)
[14:34:37] <anonimasu> micro machines :)
[14:35:08] <fragalot> yeah :p
[14:36:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, since I'm popping my cherry on revision control as it is, it's not helping much. But I watched a couple videos to try and understand the feature set, and really liked the distributed aspect as well as "via email" too
[14:37:32] <SWPadnos> git is somewhat confusing, even for people who have used version control before
[14:37:38] <SWPadnos> at least for this person who has
[14:38:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'm hoping that my lack of knowledge of cvs/svn will help
[14:38:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:40:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: But once I "get it", I can use a handful of gmail (and other) email accounts as a backup repository =)
[14:40:31] <SWPadnos> I haven't seen anything on that, but you may be right
[14:40:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: apt-cache search git- and you
[14:40:53] <anonimasu> http://www.physikinstrumente.com/en/products/prdetail.php?sortnr=300710
[14:40:55] <anonimasu> wow :D
[14:41:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: apt-cache search git- and you'll see a an email module
[14:41:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: a highly structured email, but still.
[14:41:41] <SWPadnos> what's the package called exactly?
[14:41:46] <SWPadnos> (not on Linux ATM)
[14:41:57] <SWPadnos> ah - git-email
[14:42:08] <anonimasu> :D
[14:42:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: git-email - fast, scalable, distributed revision control system (email add-on)
[14:43:15] <SWPadnos> I don't think that allows you to use an email account as a repo. it just makes emailing patches and things easier
[14:43:18] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You can even use git as a front end to subverison with checkin/outs to it
[14:44:01] <anonimasu> that would be cool to use for SLS machine
[14:44:45] <fragalot> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1831461
[14:44:48] <fragalot> *zing*
[14:48:05] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-imap-send.html
[14:50:58] <SWPadnos> nice utility. I'm still pretty sure you can't use an email account to hold a repository
[14:51:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I can try =)
[14:51:15] <SWPadnos> enjoy! :)
[14:52:08] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: But, either way, the whole 2.6 kernel takes up 1.5GB, and gmail now allows 20MB attachements, so split sound slike a winner
[14:52:17] <renz0r> renz0r is now known as renesis
[14:54:19] <JymmmEMC> http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-mailinfo.html
[14:55:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I can dream at least =)
[14:55:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:56:16] <SWPadnos> you can email patches around, but they still get put into a repository of some sort - the emails themselves aren't the repo
[14:56:51] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I understnad.
[14:56:58] <SWPadnos> so there are tools to help you format patches to send, and to extract patches from emails, but that doesn't give you a repo in an email account
[14:57:03] <SWPadnos> unless I'm wrong :)
[14:57:42] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, you have to be able to get/send them, and maybe there is a checkout via email
[14:57:49] <JymmmEMC> (so to speak)
[14:58:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Either way, I still like the idea of email -offsite
[14:59:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: If the datacenter blows up, I still have the latest
[14:59:34] <SWPadnos> sure
[15:00:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: The offsite backups, was the one issue I had to deal with still. This MIGHT work
[15:00:45] <SWPadnos> good luck
[15:00:51] <SWPadnos> it's shower time for me. bbl
[15:00:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: lol (bastard)
[15:01:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Even in irc, your sarcasim still comes through =)
[15:01:25] <SWPadnos> I type it carefully
[15:01:29] <JymmmEMC> lol
[15:05:23] <fragalot> guys
[15:05:23] <fragalot> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1815211
[15:05:28] <fragalot> * fragalot wants
[15:07:14] <JymmmEMC> why would you want some curly haired college kid for?
[15:07:56] <dareposte> k
[15:09:43] <fragalot> JymmmEMC: his table :(
[15:13:37] <JymmmEMC> fragalot: the girl seemed much cuter than the table
[15:14:08] <fragalot> JymmmEMC: obviously she's only there for the table
[15:14:12] <fragalot> so she'll go whereever the table goes
[15:14:37] <JymmmEMC> fragalot: LOL
[15:18:18] <renesis> shes doing it wrong
[15:18:32] <renesis> you gotta hold down B button
[15:18:42] <fragalot> Aye
[15:18:49] <renesis> so he runs
[15:18:54] <fragalot> you can finish mario bros in 5 minutes that way
[15:19:03] <fragalot> * fragalot did it in 6 once
[15:19:21] <fragalot> which makes me wonder if it still runs, lol
[15:19:25] <fragalot> ...... brb!
[15:22:27] <KimK_IA> KimK_IA is now known as KimK_IA_AFK
[16:23:38] <dareposte> sweet surface finish on aluminum, EMC rocks
[16:24:28] <dareposte> i tried to make the "Demo" pawn that comes with it, but the 0.5mm in feed was too much for my little steppers, they stalled out and i got to learn all about homing.
[16:24:51] <dareposte> i think the max these steppers are good for is about 0.3mm in feed at a time
[16:25:47] <dareposte> dunno if anybody cared, but i felt the need to tell SOMEONE, the excitement is overwhelming
[16:28:13] <dareposte> and surprisingly not many people appreciate how exciting it is.... i tried to explain why this is so cool to a few people and they just looked at me and started messaging on their cell phone
[16:30:53] <alex_joni> heh :P
[16:31:00] <alex_joni> dareposte: sounds good, take some pics if you can
[16:31:14] <alex_joni> it's always nice to hear positive responses from people
[16:31:29] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cr9SjoEmYk
[16:32:21] <dareposte> thats parting a piece of stock
[16:32:34] <dareposte> and here's turning just a cylinder to see how it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckg_XqZU7f8
[16:35:58] <dareposte> yes i would have to say that EMC has exceeded my expectations so far, I had heard it wasn't so good for lathes, but I now beg to differ
[16:37:18] <alex_joni> heh, glad you feel that way
[16:39:27] <alex_joni> do you plan to do threading?
[16:44:04] <jmkasunich> dareposte: pretty heavy facing cuts there
[16:44:14] <jmkasunich> almost a rapid
[16:44:17] <dareposte> yeah i was just jogging it
[16:44:23] <fragalot> :D sweet
[16:44:31] <dareposte> seeing if it would stall or not
[16:44:54] <jmkasunich> the sound for the cylinder "finish cut" seems wrong
[16:45:00] <jmkasunich> like it's cutting rough
[16:45:10] <dareposte> alex_joni: I do plan to do threading, but I haven't hooked my index pulse up yet since I've relocated it
[16:45:12] <fragalot> jmkasunich: noticed that too :/
[16:45:22] <dareposte> Hmm wonder what I can do about that
[16:45:25] <dareposte> maybe a new insert?
[16:45:27] <fragalot> the parting sounds nice tho
[16:45:29] <dareposte> that one is getting pretty old
[16:45:32] <fragalot> dareposte: could help.. yes :p
[16:45:42] <dareposte> i didn't have any coolant on it either, or lube
[16:45:46] <dareposte> just dry cut on aluminum
[16:45:58] <jmkasunich> yeah, that was what I was gonna suggest
[16:46:01] <dareposte> about halfway through the parting cut it got a squirt of wd40
[16:46:06] <jmkasunich> it sounds "dry" if that makes any sense
[16:46:13] <jmkasunich> WD40 is excellent for aluminum
[16:46:14] <dareposte> oh it was bone dry for sure
[16:46:25] <jmkasunich> what spindle speed was that?
[16:46:27] <fragalot> cooling + open case == win
[16:46:28] <dareposte> i've heard crisco works as well as anything for aluminum, from an old time machinist at work
[16:46:40] <jmkasunich> WD is easier
[16:46:40] <dareposte> s1000
[16:46:50] <dareposte> open case?
[16:47:21] <jmkasunich> 1000 RPM * 1" dia * pi / 12 = 261 sfpm, fine for carbide
[16:47:43] <jmkasunich> but at that speed I bet the aluminum chip softens enough that it wants to stick to the tool
[16:47:47] <dareposte> my text says 250-300sfm for aluminum, so thats what i was shooting for
[16:47:52] <jmkasunich> the "dry" sound is the chip sticking, then being ripped off
[16:48:07] <jmkasunich> I bet some WD would help the chip flow off the tool smoother
[16:48:39] <dareposte> i will try that next time i fire it up, i've shut it down now to get the E-stop circuit and the spindle index pulse wired back in again
[16:48:57] <dareposte> fragalot: what do you mean by "open case", you lost me there
[16:49:27] <jmkasunich> I think he means that if you use flood coolant on a machine without guards, you will get wet ;-)
[16:49:35] <dareposte> ooh
[16:49:38] <fragalot> dareposte: nothing to keep the... exactly
[16:49:50] <dareposte> i have a sliding door i've built for it
[16:49:51] <jmkasunich> speaking of which - you should figure out something to protect your screws from chips and such
[16:50:06] <dareposte> yeah that's high on the list too, some sheet metal guards for the screws
[16:50:23] <dareposte> its by no means "completed", but i couldn't wait any longer to see if it would work or not :)
[16:50:42] <jmkasunich> I understand that completely ;-)
[16:51:13] <dareposte> the half enclosure it's in right now is fully sealed, and I have a front panel with sliding door built on some drawer slides that will go on it once it's ready for coolant
[16:51:15] <fragalot> :D I'd do the exact same
[16:51:55] <dareposte> right now, the control circuits and all are just slopped on the bench underneath, so I need to get them out of the way before I even consider something wet in the area
[16:52:26] <dareposte> thanks for the critique on the dry cut, it should help next time. the surface finish looked good though once it was done, i wasn't going to complain
[16:52:34] <jmkasunich> thats good
[16:52:57] <fragalot> consider something wet in the area.. so the metal chips are no issue for the baords? :p
[16:53:01] <jmkasunich> my usual result when I have that sound is a rough finish - tiny bits of aluminum stuck to the surface
[16:53:16] <tomp> dareposte: nice vid, congrats
[16:53:53] <dareposte> tomp: thank you, EMC made it all possible :)
[16:53:54] <SWPadnos> get yourself some tap magic aluminum (with the cinnamon scent) - it makes a very nice finish on aluminum
[16:54:09] <fragalot> http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=-a_ipqppf0k&feature=related now, THAT is a lathe ^_^
[16:54:22] <SWPadnos> spray/dab it on as needed - it shouldn't splatter too much
[16:54:33] <fragalot> I don't like how close the handwheel is to the giant chuck tho :p
[16:54:48] <dareposte> SWPadnos: Is that different from the regular tap magic?
[16:55:19] <dareposte> fragalot: it almost looks like a giant piece of foam or something?
[16:55:35] <jmkasunich> concrete it says
[16:55:41] <jmkasunich> gotte be hell on the lathe ways
[16:55:54] <spasticteapot> Speaking of lathes....
[16:55:59] <fragalot> dareposte: concrete
[16:56:02] <spasticteapot> How much does it cost to get a small toolmaking lathe?
[16:56:13] <spasticteapot> And how stupid would it be to try using one with no experience with metal-lathing?
[16:56:18] <jmkasunich> spasticteapot: that is a tough question
[16:56:21] <fragalot> spasticteapot: gotta start somewhere
[16:56:38] <fragalot> I started out metal lathing when i was.. 13 i think
[16:56:38] <jmkasunich> how much does a used car cost?
[16:56:46] <fragalot> jmkasunich: too much?
[16:56:50] <spasticteapot> jmkasunich: Depends on how much car you want.
[16:56:55] <jmkasunich> exactly
[16:56:57] <jmkasunich> same with lathes
[16:57:00] <spasticteapot> fragalot: Luxury vehciles are quite cheap these days...
[16:57:09] <SWPadnos> dareposte, yes. the aluminum formula is different
[16:57:32] <jmkasunich> lol at the anti-chatter methods in that concrete lathe video
[16:57:33] <SWPadnos> there was an old one that I don't know much about (it was carcinogenic so it was removed from the market)
[16:57:52] <SWPadnos> but the new one works really well for milling or turning
[16:57:55] <spasticteapot> The minimum priceI I saw paid for a 2003 Lexus IS300 was the same as the maximum paid for a 1993 Geo Metro.
[16:57:59] <spasticteapot> $13,000.
[16:58:07] <spasticteapot> (And I didn't look very hard.)
[16:58:16] <jmkasunich> who the hell would pay 13K for _any_ metro?
[16:58:24] <SWPadnos> especially a 15 year old one
[16:58:24] <jmkasunich> especially a 15 year old one?
[16:58:28] <SWPadnos> :)
[16:59:26] <dareposte> jmkasunich: you mean the guy standing on the tool post
[16:59:30] <spasticteapot> It was a pink convertible metro.
[16:59:41] <jmkasunich> yeah, and the crescent wrenches, and such
[16:59:55] <spasticteapot> And 60mph from a tuned XFI variant was VERY appealing when gas hit $5/gallon on the west coast.
[16:59:59] <spasticteapot> *60mpg
[17:00:21] <spasticteapot> 18mpg from a V6 luxmobile...wasn't.
[17:00:45] <fragalot> jmkasunich: and people standing on the wrench (bit later)
[17:00:50] <jmkasunich> understood - but still, 13K for a POS is nuts
[17:01:20] <fragalot> spasticteapot: you do know that out here it's $10/gallon.. and has been for quite some time?
[17:01:22] <jmkasunich> around here a 15 year old metro would probably be falling apart
[17:01:33] <fragalot> jmkasunich: they wouldn't even last that long
[17:01:34] <fragalot> :p
[17:01:38] <spasticteapot> fragalot: Yes, but you live in the real world. I live in the USA.
[17:01:51] <spasticteapot> :)
[17:01:54] <fragalot> spasticteapot: :D 5 weeks till doomsday!
[17:01:59] <spasticteapot> ?
[17:02:03] <fragalot> elections?
[17:02:11] <jmkasunich> I just got a funny error message from youtube
[17:02:12] <spasticteapot> Only if McCain wins.
[17:02:21] <spasticteapot> What really scares me is Palin.
[17:02:22] <fragalot> spasticteapot: don't you just love palin?
[17:02:22] <fragalot> :p
[17:02:26] <fragalot> hehe
[17:02:28] <jmkasunich> 500 Internal Server Error
[17:02:28] <jmkasunich> Sorry, something went wrong.
[17:02:28] <jmkasunich> A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation. Please report this incident to customer service.
[17:02:28] <jmkasunich> Also, please include the following information in your error report:
[17:02:44] <spasticteapot> McCain is 72. He stands a good chance of keeiling over dead at any minute.
[17:02:49] <spasticteapot> Palin.....oy vey.
[17:02:58] <fragalot> jmkasunich: lol.
[17:02:59] <jmkasunich> followed by about 50 lines of FVZSAIe0Y7dSUqU1YXGcH63aAlRTcq_H49UiQzVwZFno3usosmgjrhERW-4j
[17:02:59] <jmkasunich> 4O7y98u8in5KRp3jzl73b8rkInSyPzfMzLnbbrTH1ZHpL1xW-ZzbC7V659KG
[17:03:13] <fragalot> jmkasunich: mind nopasting those lines? :D
[17:03:30] <jmkasunich> I only pasted two
[17:03:36] <fragalot> :(
[17:03:45] <fragalot> I wanted to figure out what it said
[17:04:03] <jmkasunich> if you really want it I'll put it on pastebin
[17:04:33] <fragalot> =D
[17:05:03] <spasticteapot> I have what I hope is an easy-peasy first project for a lathe:
[17:05:07] <spasticteapot> Fancy brass goggles.
[17:05:37] <fragalot> lathe.. goggles.. in one piece?
[17:05:37] <fragalot> :p
[17:05:47] <spasticteapot> Partially because I like the steampunk look, partially because I want some safety goggles I don't look like a doofus in, and mostly because, once I get the hang of making them, I can sell them for mucho dinero on the interwebs.
[17:06:05] <spasticteapot> http://www.brassgoggles.co.uk/images/MikeSTBrassGoggles.jpg
[17:06:12] <dareposte> i was thinking i'd put mine to work making those bronze or zinc .50BMG projectiles you see selling for $5usd /ea
[17:06:14] <fragalot> ah like that
[17:06:27] <fragalot> that looks awesome... but.. the.. no doofus part,.... :p
[17:06:43] <fragalot> dareposte: lol
[17:06:48] <spasticteapot> I need to get an old Norton motorcycle to go with those.
[17:07:23] <spasticteapot> Regardless....they look pretty easy.
[17:07:37] <spasticteapot> All I need is to find some brass stock that does not cost more than the moon.
[17:07:42] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot curses the high price of copper.
[17:08:16] <fragalot> you too huh
[17:08:28] <fragalot> y'know what I want?
[17:08:34] <fragalot> something i can wear OVER my normal glasses
[17:08:39] <fragalot> that's not a full face shield
[17:08:41] <dareposte> http://www.riflebarrels.com/images/50bullets.jpg <--- outta be a piece of cake with a cnc :)
[17:08:48] <jmkasunich> these guys need to learn about chipbreaking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uans3Q_Mb94&feature=related
[17:09:00] <fragalot> jmkasunich: naaah :;p
[17:09:13] <fragalot> jmkasunich: it's more fun when it digs into the toolbit and rips the machine apart
[17:09:16] <spasticteapot> fragalot: Get some perscription goggles.
[17:09:29] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot is nearsighted, so he can usually just take his off to work.
[17:09:39] <fragalot> spasticteapot: too pricey. And I can't find those.. all i have is swimming goggles, and sunglasses
[17:10:42] <spasticteapot> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikest/247903419/in/set-1552863/
[17:10:48] <spasticteapot> How did he cut these is what I'm wondering.
[17:10:55] <spasticteapot> Both the pattern, and the method of cutting.
[17:11:16] <fragalot> mill?
[17:11:59] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot is confused as to how you would do this.
[17:12:13] <dareposte> live tooling...
[17:12:25] <fragalot> first make the goggles on a lathe,.. then take them out, and do the rear shape with a mill?
[17:12:42] <fragalot> a 4-axis lathe would work too
[17:14:17] <fragalot> y'know what the fun part is of talking to less experienced people? You can say the tool chatter is decorative, and intentional. :p
[17:14:25] <dareposte> Here's one of those 50bmg projectiles next to a standard .308 cartridge: http://www.tenxbullets.com/Images/50+308w-web.jpg
[17:14:26] <spasticteapot> I'm still a bit confused as to how you'd go about sloping them.
[17:14:51] <jmkasunich> cnc mill with a rotary would be easiest
[17:15:00] <fragalot> ^ Aye
[17:15:00] <spasticteapot> Assuming I don't have one of those?
[17:15:23] <fragalot> spasticteapot: can you fit a drill to the toolholder? :p
[17:15:36] <spasticteapot> ?????
[17:15:43] <spasticteapot> dareposte: That thing is enormous.
[17:15:46] <anonimasu> :)
[17:15:52] <spasticteapot> Has anyone ever built a handgun that fires one?
[17:16:00] <dareposte> yes they have, i've seen a picture
[17:16:03] <jmkasunich> probably
[17:16:06] <fragalot> anonimasu: I prefer the smaller round than the .50... that barret one,.. .472 or something ?
[17:16:13] <jmkasunich> and shortly thereafter they broke their wrist
[17:16:27] <fragalot> lol
[17:16:33] <spasticteapot> I have thought about shoulder-mounted recoil compensation systems.
[17:16:55] <dareposte> http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/thunder50diagonalace.jpg
[17:17:03] <spasticteapot> The best way I could think of to do it is to connect all axis (axes?) of movement to pneumatic pistons.
[17:17:04] <dareposte> there's the one i've seen
[17:17:28] <fragalot> dareposte: thats insane, lol
[17:17:50] <dareposte> I've heard its not so effective though, as it really needs a minimum of 30" of barrel length to get up to speed
[17:18:19] <spasticteapot> http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2005/01/the_maadi_griff.html
[17:18:23] <dareposte> here's a dangerous looking fellow holding it... http://californiahuntingtoday.com/hogblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/tripleaction50bmg1.jpg
[17:18:41] <fragalot> ah
[17:18:47] <fragalot> anonimasu: i meant the .416
[17:19:17] <fragalot> it's smaller, lighter, but the range is like a third longer...
[17:19:27] <dareposte> I'd prefer the .338 lapua honestly, but the market for .50bmg lathe turned projectiles is pretty good
[17:19:43] <dareposte> the .416 is also excellent
[17:19:46] <fragalot> :D
[17:19:50] <anonimasu> *sigh*
[17:20:13] <fragalot> I mean.. it's supersonic for over 2500 yards,.. and still effective up to 3250
[17:20:15] <anonimasu> I like thunder 50BMG handgun is optimal.
[17:20:38] <dareposte> can it be chambered in a remington 700?
[17:21:29] <dareposte> if you're talking about the .416 barrett, then oddly enough it was developed because some states banned the .50bmg as being too dangerous
[17:21:40] <fragalot> dareposte: =D
[17:21:50] <dareposte> the irony is that the new one is effective further, smaller, and more efficient :)
[17:21:51] <fragalot> just goes to show, if we can't do it, we'll find another, better way
[17:21:51] <fragalot> :p
[17:21:53] <spasticteapot> Getting back to the subject of goggles....
[17:22:03] <dareposte> heh... sorry spasticteapot
[17:22:17] <spasticteapot> Is there a way to produce the curve on the back of them without substantial milling skill (or a CNC machine)?
[17:22:23] <fragalot> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1800939
[17:22:26] <fragalot> hahah thats awesome.
[17:22:33] <fragalot> spasticteapot: hand tools?
[17:22:47] <dareposte> to make those goggles you need either a cnc mill with rotary table, live tooling and a 4 axis lathe, or a shaper of some sort
[17:23:08] <dareposte> or just lay it out and scribe lines, get it pretty close with a manual mill, then file it to final dimension
[17:23:09] <fragalot> dareposte: some proper manual labor could do the trick too
[17:23:16] <fragalot> :)
[17:23:26] <spasticteapot> So...hacksaw?
[17:23:32] <spasticteapot> And a lot of filing.
[17:23:38] <dareposte> hacksaw or bandsaw would also work if you are careful and patient
[17:23:39] <fragalot> yeah, that'd work
[17:24:03] <fragalot> belt sander all the way if you're lazy and don't mind burning your fingers over and over :p
[17:24:08] <dareposte> or slap a dremel and encoder on your lathe
[17:24:24] <anonimasu> ststoppI love the goggles :)
[17:24:32] <fragalot> :D
[17:24:47] <anonimasu> well, belt sander works too
[17:25:03] <anonimasu> (sorry saw that was alread mentioned
[17:25:12] <anonimasu> wh a 5 axis machine?
[17:25:17] <fragalot> 5axis would work
[17:25:20] <anonimasu> oh 4 axis lathe ;)
[17:25:24] <fragalot> :p
[17:25:25] <anonimasu> well, a 3 axis mill will do..
[17:25:30] <anonimasu> cnc..
[17:25:31] <spasticteapot> Let's assume that I just have access to a cheap lathe and a drill press.
[17:25:31] <anonimasu> :p
[17:25:35] <spasticteapot> Because I suck.
[17:25:46] <fragalot> spasticteapot: I don't even have access to those things for personal use,.........
[17:26:24] <anonimasu> hmm..
[17:26:34] <anonimasu> I'd mark out holes..
[17:26:38] <anonimasu> then dril drill drill..
[17:26:49] <anonimasu> or use a bandsaw(or a hacksaw)
[17:27:02] <anonimasu> and cut out the contours
[17:27:07] <fragalot> I'd cut it with my dremel
[17:27:14] <fragalot> sand it down with the dremel
[17:27:14] <anonimasu> and file it to shape..
[17:27:24] <anonimasu> lots of perussian blue :p
[17:27:32] <fragalot> do some minor filing, and then hand sand it down all the way :)
[17:27:40] <anonimasu> or wathever it's name is
[17:27:59] <anonimasu> color :p
[17:28:02] <fragalot> (19:27:05) fragalot: Naib: if you'll design me an USB, or ethernet, (or SATA or SCSI or whatever :p just no serial or parallel port) 3 axis stepper controller that works with EMC2 (linuxcnc.org)
[17:28:02] <fragalot> (19:27:23) Naib: deal
[17:28:03] <fragalot> lol
[17:28:26] <fragalot> well, it's kindof his job,.. Don't think he was as serious as I was tho :(
[17:28:30] <dareposte> the asimos are so fluid they almost look animated..
[17:28:41] <fragalot> http://www.prognar.com/PalinFlowChart.jpg <-- ropfl
[17:31:39] <fragalot> dareposte: yeah! :D it's pretty amazing isn't it
[17:31:54] <fragalot> all those tiny servos in there.. it's madness... like... SPARTAAAA
[17:31:55] <dareposte> yeah i'm having a hard time believing its all "real"
[17:32:53] <dareposte> but i guess technically they are just replaying a programmed series, so they don't have to balance or think any other than remember joint positions from memory
[17:34:17] <anonimasu> I'd like to kick it over.
[17:34:18] <anonimasu> and see
[17:34:22] <anonimasu> what happens ;)
[17:34:40] <spasticteapot> anonimasu: They have programming for that.
[17:34:47] <spasticteapot> Pretty sophisticated stuff.
[17:35:29] <fragalot> yer
[17:35:34] <dareposte> you wanna see something a bit more worrisome on the robotic front? Boston dynamics has a fully autonomous balancing robotic dog, that runs on a chainsaw motor
[17:35:35] <anonimasu> I bet the engineers at honda dont kick as hard as I do.
[17:35:43] <dareposte> i think there's a video somewhere hang on
[17:35:44] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww
[17:35:46] <anonimasu> yep
[17:35:51] <anonimasu> old stuff already :p
[17:35:53] <dareposte> oh
[17:36:01] <fragalot> that's hilarious.... a chainsaw motor :p
[17:36:03] <anonimasu> they have much cooler stuff going on ;)
[17:36:16] <fragalot> so it can't sneak up on you
[17:36:22] <fragalot> or you run away 'cos you think it's a bunch of bees
[17:36:25] <anonimasu> that'd be a cool place to work at
[17:36:30] <dareposte> just temporary until the 30-year nuclear silent battery gets installed
[17:36:42] <anonimasu> we need fuelcells badly
[17:36:47] <fragalot> lol yer
[17:36:55] <fragalot> damn dude you just can't knock that thing over o.0
[17:37:26] <fragalot> lol even on ice it doesn't go all the way down
[17:37:49] <dareposte> yeah i am thoroughly impressed by it
[17:37:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[17:38:04] <fragalot> I mean.. it's carrying 340lb arround meanwhile
[17:38:30] <dareposte> on ice
[17:38:36] <dareposte> and going up a snowbank
[17:38:45] <fragalot> over bricks
[17:38:49] <fragalot> pebbles..
[17:38:59] <fragalot> lol it can even bounce forward :p
[17:39:29] <fragalot> its only a matter of time before they put a gun on it
[17:39:33] <fragalot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgrR-h7AXjY&watch_response
[17:39:57] <anonimasu> boston dynamics are looking for robotics engineers..
[17:39:58] <anonimasu> -_-
[17:40:06] <fragalot> :)
[17:40:17] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJZVZFRFJc&NR=1
[17:40:25] <anonimasu> I want the job at the bottom. http://www.bostondynamics.com/content/sec.php?section=jobs
[17:40:47] <anonimasu> cad cam cae.. and huydralics..
[17:40:51] <anonimasu> *grins*
[17:40:54] <fragalot> anonimasu: you wanna be a copyright?
[17:41:05] <anonimasu> well, copyright?
[17:41:51] <anonimasu> I dont give a crap, about that..
[17:41:58] <anonimasu> sounds like a neat job :p
[17:42:01] <fragalot> lol
[17:42:20] <fragalot> I'd go for the 2nd last one
[17:42:40] <fragalot> mainly because it doesn't mention "experience" anywhere without the word "or" infront of it
[17:44:39] <anonimasu> :)
[17:44:58] <anonimasu> well, I just lack the degree -_-
[17:45:17] <fragalot> me too, .. at the moment
[17:45:24] <fragalot> 2 more years >.>
[17:45:40] <anonimasu> I've got 5 -_-
[17:45:43] <dareposte> resume submitted :-D
[17:45:47] <fragalot> ahha
[17:45:47] <anonimasu> damn.
[17:45:48] <fragalot> :D
[17:45:54] <anonimasu> really? :p
[17:46:00] <fragalot> * fragalot points a water jet at dareposte
[17:46:08] <anonimasu> well, there's still lots of fun stuff left in robotics.
[17:46:10] <dareposte> hey once we get one person on the inside...
[17:46:41] <anonimasu> lol
[17:46:46] <dareposte> convert it over to run on EMC, so all the further developments are open sourced :)
[17:46:47] <fragalot> haha
[17:47:40] <anonimasu> bbl
[17:48:16] <dareposte> i'd like to get some work on that new human exo skeleton they're using, saw a video of some GI testing it and he did a few hundred chinups before he got bored
[17:48:50] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2jlIRKswnQ
[17:48:56] <fragalot> lmao
[17:49:23] <fragalot> I always wondered how long it'd take to make that
[17:49:31] <dareposte> it is also awaiting the 30 year life nuclear battery to become really useful
[17:51:05] <fragalot> all it needs is fingers.
[17:51:05] <fragalot> :p
[17:52:29] <fragalot> dareposte: what output does that battery give anyways
[17:52:33] <fragalot> been a while since i've heard about it
[17:52:42] <dareposte> 1000 volts at 10,000 amps
[17:52:51] <dareposte> oh i don't think it actually exists
[17:52:56] <dareposte> i was just fantasizing...
[17:53:01] <fragalot> it's beeing researched...
[17:53:50] <dareposte> no doubt i'm sure it is, but i haven't heard anything about any real life prototypes that have been around
[17:54:33] <dareposte> ideally it would be about the size of a lantern battery, put out from 100-400 vdc at 100 amps, for a minimum life of 30 years. and cost under $20
[17:54:51] <dareposte> i'd buy two
[17:55:32] <fragalot> apparently those things have existed since the 50's,.. and have an effeciency of (hold on) 0.7 to 5%
[17:55:33] <fragalot> xD
[17:57:35] <fragalot> but only last 10yr
[17:57:46] <dareposte> hey that would be sufficient
[18:01:58] <fragalot> lol
[18:07:15] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFCam2GFyT8&feature=user
[18:10:54] <fragalot> I think somebody got bored
[18:12:02] <alex_joni> lol :)
[18:12:18] <fragalot> oh its a kit
[18:14:28] <anonimasu> I have a paper on the exoskeletong
[18:14:30] <anonimasu> on the huydralics
[18:14:31] <anonimasu> :)
[18:14:53] <anonimasu> I love the stuff they talk about how exoskeletons are less vunerable the human in battle..
[18:15:01] <anonimasu> I think they are forgetting that if you shoot into a single joint..
[18:15:05] <anonimasu> or a single board.
[18:15:11] <anonimasu> or damn a bus connector it's all over.
[18:16:30] <alex_joni> anonimasu: lol
[18:16:37] <alex_joni> that's the greatest typo ever
[18:16:55] <anonimasu> or a bus cable..
[18:16:56] <anonimasu> ?
[18:16:59] <anonimasu> which one of them
[18:17:03] <anonimasu> i make alot :p
[18:17:18] <dareposte> i think the idea would be that its so strong it can also carry ballistic armor
[18:17:26] <alex_joni> 21:08 < anonimasu> I have a paper on the exoskeletong
[18:17:32] <anonimasu> ah.. yeah
[18:17:36] <alex_joni> :P
[18:17:39] <alex_joni> bbl..
[18:17:40] <fragalot> anonimasu: they said "battle"
[18:17:50] <fragalot> anonimasu: they didn't say in a gunfight
[18:17:59] <anonimasu> fragalot: oh, other sources do ;)
[18:18:01] <fragalot> anonimasu: also, if you add armor plating to that,..
[18:18:16] <fragalot> it doesn't really care that much about weight, does it
[18:18:31] <fragalot> I think it's more usefull in packaging facilities to help load the trucks
[18:18:36] <anonimasu> agreed
[18:19:02] <dareposte> i bet it would be pretty useful for the heavy machine gunner too
[18:19:04] <fragalot> or under my christmas tree.
[18:19:05] <anonimasu> fragalot: I know about the armor it's just that the general public seems to think that they are solid :p
[18:19:07] <dareposte> haulin that thing around
[18:19:13] <anonimasu> yep
[18:19:18] <fragalot> anonimasu: ;)
[18:19:25] <anonimasu> hauling some really heavy guns with one is cool :p
[18:19:28] <fragalot> dudes
[18:19:35] <fragalot> add a backpack helicopter to that exoskeleton
[18:19:41] <anonimasu> LOL
[18:19:59] <dareposte> okay now that is just outrageous
[18:20:03] <fragalot> :D
[18:20:03] <dmess> what are you guys on about... the robo dog??
[18:20:07] <fragalot> dmess: no
[18:20:16] <fragalot> fullblown "come on in" exoskeleton
[18:20:18] <fragalot> that appears to work
[18:20:20] <dmess> have you seen him?
[18:20:24] <fragalot> yes
[18:20:41] <fragalot> dmess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2jlIRKswnQ
[18:20:44] <anonimasu> sounds like warhammer :p
[18:20:54] <anonimasu> "terminators"
[18:20:59] <fragalot> lol
[18:21:27] <dmess> yes i seen that before too
[18:22:34] <dareposte> the bummer of the idea is that it can't be used in 'part'... like if you just need one strong arm to lift a half ton or so, you still need the skeletal support all the way to the ground
[18:22:59] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:23:18] <anonimasu> well, down to your hips should be fine..
[18:23:22] <anonimasu> if you can get it light enough
[18:23:42] <dareposte> and likewise as anonimasu pointed out, if a single leg joint or support structure failed then the whole thing becomes pretty useless
[18:24:07] <anonimasu> likewise you can have armor
[18:24:18] <anonimasu> but F = A*p for huydralics
[18:24:18] <dareposte> an interesting reliability engineering challenge for sure, especially in "battle" conditions
[18:24:32] <anonimasu> and at very high loads that becomes fun..
[18:25:19] <anonimasu> explosively fun.
[18:25:20] <anonimasu> :)
[18:25:37] <anonimasu> like if you add armor to it ;)
[18:25:39] <fragalot> just wrap it in kevlar
[18:25:43] <dareposte> did that suit use hydraulics? I didn't look that closely but it looked like it had servos
[18:25:49] <fragalot> actually
[18:25:51] <fragalot> dragonskin
[18:25:52] <fragalot> :D
[18:25:59] <anonimasu> they user huydralics
[18:26:09] <fragalot> dareposte: hydraulics
[18:26:11] <anonimasu> electric-servohuydralics actually :)
[18:26:18] <fragalot> :p
[18:26:24] <anonimasu> fancy valves ;)
[18:26:25] <dareposte> pretty good response for hydraulics
[18:26:33] <fragalot> yeah
[18:26:41] <fragalot> it's pretty damn awesome
[18:26:42] <anonimasu> I've been trying to buy thoose valves they use for work..
[18:26:48] <dmess> hydraulic push pull actuators
[18:26:55] <fragalot> but i think the "gentle touch" part of the skeleton requires experience
[18:26:56] <fragalot> :p
[18:26:58] <anonimasu> but they are too much $$$$$
[18:27:01] <fragalot> wouldn't want to give it a handshake
[18:27:16] <anonimasu> agreed
[18:27:18] <fragalot> also
[18:27:20] <dmess> si
[18:27:21] <fragalot> it has a CLAW
[18:27:23] <fragalot> FEAR THE CLAW
[18:27:24] <fragalot> :p
[18:27:35] <anonimasu> http://www.servovalve.com/
[18:28:10] <fragalot> also
[18:28:14] <fragalot> lets say that thing takes a hit
[18:28:19] <fragalot> just step out of it :/
[18:28:20] <dareposte> the knee and hip joints look like rotary something or other, not push pull
[18:28:40] <dareposte> yeah or it crushes you and twists in ways the real body isn't supposed to...
[18:28:58] <anonimasu> haha
[18:29:01] <anonimasu> flip >
[18:29:02] <dareposte> or the 3000 psi hydraulic line explodes and cuts part of your leg off :)
[18:29:06] <anonimasu> yep..
[18:29:09] <anonimasu> that's my concern ;)
[18:29:15] <anonimasu> they usually dont explode.
[18:29:21] <anonimasu> but well, extreme flexing make them break
[18:29:38] <anonimasu> and the pressure might be way higher then your system pressure when that happens
[18:29:41] <fragalot> dareposte: as if getting a .50 in your hip is a better alternative :p
[18:30:01] <dareposte> i personally don't like either alternative
[18:30:06] <fragalot> :D
[18:31:18] <fragalot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdK2y3lphmE <--
[18:31:21] <fragalot> fits in a backpack
[18:31:21] <fragalot> lol
[18:33:25] <dareposte> now i could homebrew somethin' like that.... (hmmm)
[18:33:32] <fragalot> actually
[18:33:35] <fragalot> wheelchair alternative
[18:33:36] <fragalot> :p
[18:35:41] <dareposte> those look like hydraulics again
[18:37:25] <dareposte> basically a gain loop with your body movements as the input it looks like
[18:37:38] <fragalot> quote: I give all credit for the exosuit invention to Robert Heinlein because of his explanation and description in the book Starship Troopers.
[18:38:24] <anonimasu> haha
[18:38:40] <dareposte> that seems to happen a lot... the creative authors and artists come up with awesome ideas and describe them, but don't have the skills to bring them to life. Then a group of scientists or engineers who otherwise might not have thought of it read the book and make it happen
[18:38:54] <anonimasu> asimov ftw ;)
[18:39:09] <dareposte> yeah prime example
[19:14:56] <mshaver> cradek: you around?
[19:16:02] <mshaver> anyway, I thought I'd let you know I got the tool post working on this lathe using classicladder.
[19:16:33] <mshaver> CL does seem like a good tool once you get used to whole "ladder logic" thing.
[19:16:54] <mshaver> It's just rather different for a "chip oriented" person!
[19:30:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:32:13] <cradek> mshaver: neato
[19:36:59] <mshaver> I've spent the last couple days finishing the wiring and estop stuff. Now I need to finish the machine logic.
[19:37:32] <mshaver> Can someone explain what I need to do to run AXIS in lathe mode?
[19:37:49] <SWPadnos> put LATHE=1 in the DISPLAY section of the ini
[19:37:58] <mshaver> I've seen the LATHE=1 thing (or true I don't remember)
[19:38:15] <mshaver> but it seems not to like have only 2 AXIS sections
[19:38:37] <cradek> check out the sim/lathe sample config that runs on your version
[19:38:41] <mshaver> even if I say there are only 2 axes in the traj section
[19:38:44] <cradek> the way you specify X,Z has changed
[19:39:05] <SWPadnos> X and Z are 0 and 2, so you have to do something I don't know to get rid of Y
[19:39:06] <cradek> pretty sure you need AXES=3, for a reason that's obscure but spelled out in the docs
[19:39:14] <mshaver> ok, I'll look at the latest sim/lathe
[19:39:22] <cradek> are you running trunk or 2.2?
[19:39:32] <mshaver> do you know where in the docs? TRUNK
[19:39:51] <mshaver> about a day or two old
[19:40:10] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BTRAJ%5D-section
[19:40:53] <cradek> in trunk I think you say [TRAJ]AXES=3 and then have [AXIS_0] and [AXIS_2]
[19:41:11] <cradek> that with [DISPLAY]LATHE=1 should give you a useful display
[19:41:14] <SWPadnos> and make sure COORDINATES = X Z maybe
[19:41:18] <mshaver> OK, that may not be a combination I've tried! ;)
[19:41:51] <mshaver> Cool! I'll try this here shortly!
[19:42:04] <SWPadnos> look at an example first though. I don't know what I'm talking about :)
[19:42:52] <mshaver> Also, I'm writing a post to emc-users wondering if there's a way to use a HAL pin to display an operator message (that will work in auto mode).
[19:43:19] <SWPadnos> sure - do something like hal_manualtoolchange
[19:43:21] <mshaver> SWPadnos: this goes without saying for both of us!
[19:43:45] <SWPadnos> that has a couple of HAL pins, and it pops up a message for the operator to change tools
[19:43:47] <cradek> mshaver: what is the original goal that you hope to solve with that?
[19:43:54] <mshaver> I've actually never looked at that
[19:44:31] <mshaver> I have some error conditions that I would like to have cause a program pause or abort (done with HALUI) and display an explanatory message
[19:45:00] <mshaver> e.g. tool post fails to index correctly, or VFD fault detected
[19:45:40] <mshaver> or a couple of AC cycles lost, but not enough to crash the PC
[19:45:41] <cradek> seems like halui could issue one of a list of previously defined operator messages, in a similar way to how it does mdi
[19:45:43] <SWPadnos> so you're looking for the HAL equivalent of (msg, "oops")
[19:46:00] <mshaver> yes, and yes
[19:46:23] <cradek> [HALUI]MESSAGE = "you didn't frob the dingle"
[19:46:28] <mshaver> I was thinking of extending HALUI in exactly that way
[19:46:35] <mshaver> YES!
[19:46:36] <cradek> => halui.message-01, bit
[19:46:46] <cradek> go for it
[19:46:49] <mshaver> YES!!
[19:47:03] <cradek> the mdi stuff is very close to that already
[19:47:34] <mshaver> Oh, you mean actually do this myself?
[19:47:43] <mshaver> What a novel idea!
[19:47:58] <cradek> <mshaver> I was thinking of extending HALUI in exactly that way
[19:48:06] <cradek> maybe I didn't understand these words properly? :-)
[19:48:26] <mshaver> Oh you understood them!
[19:48:38] <mshaver> It's just that I am full of good intentions...
[19:48:47] <cradek> do you get operator messages simultaneously on all guis?
[19:48:52] <cradek> I've never messed with this.
[19:49:00] <mshaver> but sometimes lacking in the execution dept.
[19:49:20] <mshaver> I think it's an NML message, so I would say yes
[19:49:30] <mshaver> I should look at that
[19:49:39] <cradek> I think there are 'messages' and 'errors' that (may) get displayed differently, but I'm not sure
[19:50:16] <mshaver> some of the GUIs have a "message area" for things that don't need acknowledgement
[19:50:58] <mshaver> I'm fixing to go home to MD from MI tomorrow and I might have some more "in front of the PC time"
[19:51:06] <mshaver> to do this.
[19:51:31] <mshaver> but I wanted to know if I had overlooked some other obvious way of doing this
[19:51:39] <cradek> not that I see
[19:52:01] <mshaver> at least I wouldn't be re-inventing an existing function
[19:52:12] <mshaver> ok, I'll proceed!
[19:52:17] <cradek> letting ladder and/or hal report errors in english really isn't there afaik
[19:52:19] <skunkworksemc> make it so
[19:52:27] <SWPadnos> for a small number of messages, a somewhat modified hal_manualtoolchange might be a better alternative
[19:52:44] <cradek> I don't agree
[19:52:51] <SWPadnos> that already has some logic to display a dialog, allow its dismissal, etc.
[19:52:57] <mshaver> I'll look at that too, I assume it';s a HAL component with built in messages?
[19:53:02] <SWPadnos> halui doesn't do anything with an acutal GUI at the moment
[19:53:18] <cradek> one of the jobs of the emc gui is to show messages and errors
[19:53:19] <SWPadnos> it has one message "insert tool %d and press done" or similar
[19:53:29] <JymmmEMC> /does a /ForceNickChange skunkworksemc JeanLukePicard
[19:53:35] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC does a /ForceNickChange skunkworksemc JeanLukePicard
[19:53:49] <SWPadnos> HALUI isn't a GUI though, so it isn't necessarily a good place to start
[19:54:23] <skunkworksemc> ;)
[19:54:29] <SWPadnos> AFAIK, the only way to display operator messages is with new NML messages
[19:54:50] <SWPadnos> (assuming you want all the GUIs to do it)
[19:54:52] <cradek> I'm talking out my ass if I pretend to know how messages work
[19:54:57] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:55:04] <SWPadnos> me too, but I wasn't going to say
[19:55:23] <mshaver> I'll study up on it.
[19:55:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: OH! Is that cradek's photo you posted earlier?
[19:55:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:56:51] <cradek> bbl
[19:56:55] <mshaver> "So let it be written. So let it be done."
[19:57:04] <mshaver> me too, hungry
[19:57:38] <JymmmEMC> cradek: http://advice.thisoldhouse.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=258&d=1192138552
[19:57:49] <mshaver> the above line _really_ works well on my wife...
[19:58:19] <JymmmEMC> mshaver: "me too, hungry" ???
[19:58:53] <mshaver> meaning, "I'll be back later as well! I'm hungry and desire to eat something now."
[19:59:10] <JymmmEMC> mshaver: If that works on your wife, does she have a sister?
[19:59:27] <mshaver> I've never really developed a knck for this instant messaging shorthand...
[19:59:47] <JymmmEMC> mshaver: such as?
[19:59:54] <mshaver> </sarcasm>
[20:00:18] <mshaver> such as bbl and things like that
[20:00:19] <JymmmEMC> OMGWTFBBQ
[20:01:17] <mshaver> I get it! Someone has surprised you with a barbecue!
[20:01:52] <JymmmEMC> but.... it's in the shape of a bunny with a pancake on it's head!
[20:02:01] <JymmmEMC> thus the WTF
[20:02:37] <mshaver> anyway, now to eat, soon to try lathe mode in AXIS - back in a little while!
[20:15:39] <spasticteapot> Does anyone here know where I can buy brass pipe that's 1.5" in diameter with 1/4" walls?
[20:20:31] <OoBIGeye> spasticteapot: where are you from?
[20:21:04] <spasticteapot> Wisconsin?
[20:21:05] <spasticteapot> USA?
[20:21:11] <anonimasu> hmm..
[20:21:25] <spasticteapot> I wasn't aware that brass tube required a permit or had any regulations....
[20:21:36] <spasticteapot> I thought it was like toothbrushes and kitty litter, not uranium.
[20:21:37] <spasticteapot> :)
[20:21:40] <OoBIGeye> then I'm out of ideas :)
[20:21:41] <anonimasu> haha
[20:21:47] <Phreedom> it's a weapon!
[20:21:52] <anonimasu> spasticteapot: why cant you just buy it?
[20:21:57] <anonimasu> www.onlinemetals.com or something?
[20:22:06] <spasticteapot> anonimasu: I was asking WHERE I could buy it.
[20:22:12] <spasticteapot> Most places max out at 0.12"
[20:22:24] <anonimasu> you might have trouble getting them in very short lenghts
[20:22:31] <SWPadnos> 1/4 wall is pretty thick for a 1.5" tube, I think
[20:22:44] <anonimasu> ah tube.. that's probably harder then solid stock
[20:23:02] <spasticteapot> I don't need strength.
[20:23:06] <spasticteapot> It's for goggles.
[20:23:17] <anonimasu> Well, solid stock should be much easier to buy
[20:23:21] <spasticteapot> Yep.
[20:23:24] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot needs to learn how to use a lathe.
[20:23:27] <anonimasu> and probalby cheaper
[20:23:29] <anonimasu> probably
[20:23:41] <spasticteapot> I might just be able to use some plate on the end of a piece of much thinner tube.
[20:23:54] <spasticteapot> Anyone here know where to get dichroic glass?
[20:24:00] <anonimasu> hmm.. solder it togther?
[20:24:58] <spasticteapot> * spasticteapot is very good at soldering things.
[20:25:08] <spasticteapot> Still...dichroic glass, anyone?
[20:26:32] <SWPadnos> it looks like you can get bronze in 1.5/.25 tube, but not brass (at least Mcmaster doesn't have that)
[20:26:46] <spasticteapot> Bronze is not as shiny.
[20:26:59] <spasticteapot> Speaking of which, can anyone recommend a good coating for copper to keep it from oxidizing?
[20:27:08] <spasticteapot> I've tried spray polyurethane, but it ends up all rubbery.
[20:27:16] <spasticteapot> And it ruins the shiny finish.
[20:34:25] <toastydeath> in soviet russia
[20:34:30] <toastydeath> shiny finish ruins YOU
[20:36:48] <spasticteapot> toastydeath: Well, THAT was helpful....
[20:38:24] <leadwell__> leadwell__ is now known as robh_
[20:38:33] <robh_> hi
[20:39:38] <robh_> when building the latest CVS -trunk i recived the following errors, Error in latexParagraphs: You should not mix title layouts with normal ones.
[20:39:57] <SWPadnos> on Hardy?
[20:40:42] <SWPadnos> I think you need another package - something like tetex-extras or similar
[20:41:01] <SWPadnos> (I believe that error is due to a missing document template)
[20:41:31] <robh_> yea hardy, ill take a look thx
[20:42:17] <fenn> spasticteapot: i think you're sposed to use lacquer
[20:42:27] <SWPadnos> sure. I hope I remembered the right answer :)
[20:42:33] <spasticteapot> fenn: What sort?
[20:42:46] <fenn> spasticteapot: myself, i'm a fan of paste wax (furniture polish)
[20:43:46] <spasticteapot> Paste wax works on copper?
[20:43:56] <fenn> seems like it ought to
[20:44:04] <tomp> try 'copper and Brass sales' (thuysen)
[20:44:07] <fenn> i use it for steel and iron all the time
[20:44:24] <fenn> brush it on with a stiff acid brush, let dry, then buff with a paper towel
[20:45:11] <fenn> it won't last forever, but hey that's what brasso is for right?
[20:47:04] <tomp> http://www.copperandbrass.com/cnb/index.htm for brass tube
[20:48:08] <tomp> haha googling for brass brought up lots of places but some were 'bras' :)
[20:53:15] <robh_> SWPadnos, that worked
[20:53:23] <SWPadnos> great!
[20:54:20] <robh_> added it to the wiki for others
[20:54:27] <SWPadnos> thanks
[20:59:20] <robh_> does any one have any good info on tuning servo drives?
[20:59:37] <SWPadnos> there is a bit on the wiki, and lots more on the web
[20:59:46] <SWPadnos> it really varies from machine to machine and person to person
[21:00:50] <robh_> so i have found out lol, realy just wanna know basic what i am looking for when performing the tuning as such then i can take it from there
[21:01:25] <SWPadnos> what kinds of drives do you have? what kind of equipment do you have (scope, meter ...)? what kind of experience do you have?
[21:01:58] <SWPadnos> (not that I can help much if you answer, but those are the kinds of things that change what you should do :) )
[21:02:13] <robh_> right now i have a samsung servo motor and drive on a 4th axis, the drive its self has a auto tune to set its own loop
[21:03:44] <robh_> with machine its self it has the old drive and motors still which only have tuning pot so EMC will have to fully tune thoes drives at moment just having play with 4th axis to get idea of tuning before i fit the control onto the rest of the machine
[21:07:45] <SWPadnos> sorry - dunno about that hardware, and I've got to run.
[21:07:49] <SWPadnos> good luck with that ;)
[21:08:24] <jmkasunich> spasticteapot: I think the flat plate on a thin tube has a lot going for it
[21:09:04] <spasticteapot> ?
[21:09:08] <jmkasunich> I suggest you calculate the weight of the thick walled version, and decide if you want that resting on your nose/eyesockets, before you spend $ and time
[21:09:08] <spasticteapot> Oh, yah.
[21:09:10] <spasticteapot> Sorry.
[21:09:10] <robh_> SWPadnos, np cya
[21:09:28] <spasticteapot> I'm trying to find dichroic filter glass.
[21:10:42] <jmkasunich> some specific color?
[21:11:50] <spasticteapot> Whatever looks the coolest.
[21:17:56] <crotchetyGuy> crotchetyGuy is now known as crotchet
[21:28:30] <mshaver> A couple days ago, upon being prompted by the little orange indicator, I installed an rtai kernel upgrade on my 8.04 system (added EMC2 with the install script).
[21:29:27] <mshaver> Now, when I run-in-place I get "can't load rtaihal, file exists".
[21:29:52] <jmkasunich> are you sure it was an upgrade of the rtai kernel?
[21:29:57] <mshaver> Sure enough, right after booting, a bunch of rtai kernel modules are already loaded.
[21:30:20] <mshaver> I look at the GRUB menu and it's -16 rtai
[21:30:35] <jmkasunich> seems like everybody and his brother has had problems like that, but we've been assuming (in the absence of reliable info) that the problem was an ubuntu generic kernel upgrade
[21:30:47] <mshaver> that's the only choice I've got
[21:31:04] <jmkasunich> that is an important piece of the puzzle that we haven't had till now
[21:31:06] <mshaver> well, i've got it! anything you'd like to know?
[21:31:13] <jmkasunich> unfortunately I don't know much about it beyond that
[21:31:22] <jmkasunich> alex_joni or maybe jepler would know more
[21:31:36] <jmkasunich> I didn't know they had rebuilt the RT kernel lately
[21:31:49] <mshaver> I haven't tried rmmodding the stuff that's pre-insmodded for me yet
[21:32:31] <mshaver> interestingly, I have the choice of installing rtai kernels and such from within synaptic
[21:33:00] <mshaver> all that's currently installed (apt wise) is the modules I think
[21:33:11] <SWPadnos> the RT kernel and EMC2 packages were just updated due to a previous build error on x64
[21:33:21] <jmkasunich> sure, once the EMC repository is added to the list, synaptic can manage EMC packages just like ubuntu ones
[21:33:47] <jmkasunich> ok, so that explains the update to the RT kernel
[21:34:01] <jmkasunich> now, why is it resulting in people having modules loaded at boot?
[21:34:08] <jmkasunich> are you using m5i20 cards?
[21:34:13] <mshaver> yes
[21:34:16] <jmkasunich> that
[21:34:19] <jmkasunich> that's it
[21:34:27] <mshaver> what's it?
[21:34:42] <jmkasunich> seb used the kernel firmware loading mechanism (hotplug and friends) in an attempt to be more "linuxy"
[21:34:59] <mshaver> OK...
[21:35:00] <jmkasunich> the damned OS is detecting the 5i20 card at boot time and trying to load its firmware
[21:35:28] <jmkasunich> treating it like a piece of computer hardware, instead of a device dedicated to an individual program
[21:35:30] <mshaver> yep, I get some messages about that
[21:35:45] <jmkasunich> that stuff _should_ be loaded at EMC runtime, not boot time
[21:35:46] <mshaver> I think they're in dmesg
[21:36:35] <jmkasunich> I think the rtai modules are getting loaded because of a dependency chain - the 5i20 results in the driver being loaded, which depends on something, which depends on something else, which depends on RTAI modules
[21:36:50] <jmkasunich> so modprobe in its annoyingly helpfull way cluelessly loads it all
[21:36:55] <mshaver> so, maybe I should look around in dmesg, and /var/log/messages?
[21:37:05] <mshaver> and see what gives?
[21:37:24] <KimK> spasticteapot: Does Edmund Scientific have dichroic glass?
[21:37:25] <jmkasunich> var/log/messages is the same as dmesg
[21:37:40] <mshaver> ah, didn't know that
[21:37:45] <jmkasunich> dmesg is the in-ram kernel buffer, /var/log/messages is the file that it eventually gets written to
[21:38:26] <jmkasunich> the in memory version obiously starts no sooner than the last reboot, and may start later than that if the buffer got full
[21:38:33] <jmkasunich> the file version can be very long
[21:38:43] <mshaver> OK, I wonder if there's a way to say, "ignore this hardware please"
[21:38:50] <jmkasunich> there might be
[21:38:53] <jmkasunich> but I don't know
[21:39:04] <SWPadnos> I thought there was some udev or modules.aliases-foo to do that
[21:39:11] <jmkasunich> I was never very thrilled about the hotplug based approach
[21:39:16] <mshaver> or to not try to re-load the modules and firmware in the emc script
[21:39:40] <jmkasunich> IMO its a bug, but I don't know what the best workaround or solution is
[21:39:44] <spasticteapot> KimK: I'll look.
[21:39:51] <SWPadnos> for most users, it isn't a bug
[21:40:03] <jmkasunich> for users with a 5i20 installed it is
[21:40:06] <SWPadnos> no
[21:40:20] <jmkasunich> why not?
[21:40:30] <SWPadnos> once the correct firmware has been installed in /lib/firmware, it's a good way of getting the FPGA programmed early on
[21:40:54] <jmkasunich> "early on" as in at boot time?
[21:41:01] <SWPadnos> there may be a bug because the firmware gets loaded and the module does too, which is a problem for us
[21:41:03] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:41:06] <jmkasunich> that is too fscking early IMO
[21:41:16] <jmkasunich> the 5i20 is _anything_ I/O
[21:41:27] <mshaver> it's hardware, it's supposed to work this way. But it's not very convenient for me as I want to change the fpga image from time to time
[21:41:37] <SWPadnos> but for most people, it's hostmot2 or hostmot or <whatever_they've_made IO
[21:41:45] <jmkasunich> that means what it is gonna be shouldn't get decided until I invoke a program that uses it
[21:42:06] <SWPadnos> what it has to be is dependent on what it's physically connected to
[21:42:16] <jmkasunich> well, we've had this argument before, and I lost
[21:42:17] <SWPadnos> for most people, that will not change often, if at all
[21:42:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:42:32] <mshaver> it is kind of application specific hardware, not a shared resource
[21:42:42] <mshaver> like a disk or sound card
[21:42:44] <SWPadnos> I don't particularly like the request_firmware method either, but I think it has merit for many users
[21:42:51] <jmkasunich> but regardless of the philosophy, there is a problem in the implementation if ANYTHING other than the firmware load is happening at boot tome
[21:43:15] <SWPadnos> yes, that is definitely a problem (maybe a bug, maybe a philosophical problem with the way EMC uses modules)
[21:43:19] <mshaver> you mean the rtai modules getting loaded?
[21:43:22] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:43:26] <jmkasunich> I agree with Matt's view - it is application specific hardware, not a sound card
[21:43:43] <SWPadnos> sure, so it may as well get programmed with that application firmware early on
[21:43:59] <SWPadnos> most people won't change its use on the fly
[21:44:05] <SWPadnos> (with EMC anyway)
[21:44:09] <jmkasunich> "most people"
[21:44:17] <SWPadnos> you and I are different ;)
[21:44:28] <SWPadnos> (from the others, as well as each other )
[21:44:37] <jmkasunich> all people would be able to use it if the firmware was loaded at EMC runtime
[21:45:00] <mshaver> Not that I don't enjoy a good philosophy discussion, but...
[21:45:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:45:12] <jmkasunich> but you want a workaround
[21:45:17] <mshaver> what do you think I should do?
[21:45:26] <jmkasunich> lsmod and paste the top of the list here
[21:45:35] <mshaver> yea, sort of...
[21:45:37] <jmkasunich> crap, might be more than just the top
[21:45:43] <jmkasunich> pastebin the whole thing
[21:46:04] <jmkasunich> usually EMC related modules are at the top of the list cause they're loaded when EMC runs and removed later
[21:46:11] <mshaver> OK, give me a minute it's on another system, but it's net connected
[21:46:15] <mshaver> they are
[21:46:15] <jmkasunich> but if they're loaded at boot they could be 40 lines down
[21:46:21] <mshaver> near the top
[21:46:32] <KimK> So if I were working out the bugs for two different machines (servo mill and stepper lathe, say) both using 5i20 (5i22?) and I had two different "anything" external setups on the bench, and I went back and forth from time to time, there would be a lot of rebooting?
[21:46:34] <jmkasunich> pastebin the whole list anyway
[21:46:46] <mshaver> back in a moment with a link to it!
[21:46:47] <jmkasunich> KimK no
[21:47:01] <jmkasunich> or at least, there shouldn't be
[21:47:21] <jmkasunich> there will be a lot of manipulation of symlinks in some system firmware directory
[21:47:36] <jmkasunich> but you _should_ be able to load either firmware without rebooting
[21:47:48] <jmkasunich> IMO anything that makes you reboot your system is evil
[21:48:02] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@mahan:~/emcdev/emc2head$ uptime
[21:48:02] <jmkasunich> 17:45:54 up 104 days, 20:30, 5 users, load average: 0.70, 0.49, 0.53
[21:48:07] <jmkasunich> that should be normal......
[21:48:31] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@shoptask:~$ uptime
[21:48:31] <jmkasunich> 17:41:25 up 50 days, 21:12, 5 users, load average: 2.23, 2.07, 2.02
[21:48:31] <jmkasunich> j
[21:48:47] <jmkasunich> likewise that - that is my 3-in-1 machine, that runs seperate EMC configs for mill and lathe mode
[21:48:54] <jmkasunich> I've switched many times since the last reboot
[21:50:35] <KimK> Thanks, glad to hear of minimum rebooting. BTW, I've not been paying attention, any news on 5i22? (hostmot2?)
[21:52:09] <jmkasunich> seb is doing ongoing work on it
[21:52:16] <jmkasunich> I haven't been paying much attention
[21:52:30] <jmkasunich> I should, since I have a card and want to convert my machine from software stepping one of these days
[21:53:32] <KimK> does he post a blog? or should we monitor CVS?
[21:55:43] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/
[21:55:55] <jmkasunich> there is a TODO file in there with some of his notes to himself
[21:56:04] <jmkasunich> or just ask on the emc-developers list
[21:56:37] <mshaver> dmesg right after boot: http://www.mattshaver.com/dmesg.txt
[21:56:46] <jmkasunich> also a README
[21:57:07] <mshaver> lsmod right after boot: http://www.mattshaver.com/lsmod.txt
[21:57:31] <mshaver> trying to run emc: http://www.mattshaver.com/emcrun.txt
[21:58:33] <jmkasunich> hmm, nothing 5i20 related in lsmod
[21:58:38] <KimK> jmkasunich: Thanks, I'll keep checking it from time to time
[21:58:42] <SWPadnos> yeah, weird
[21:58:52] <mshaver> I don't know where I saw that
[21:59:02] <jmkasunich> I wonder if the module is loaded, loads the firmware, then unloads itself, leaving behind the RTAI stuff?
[21:59:22] <SWPadnos> it doesn't print anything if that's the case
[21:59:27] <jmkasunich> "bad image file", what is that?
[21:59:31] <jmkasunich> the popup image?
[21:59:43] <mshaver> is dmesg the same stuff that's echoed to the screen during boot up?
[21:59:51] <jmkasunich> more-or-less
[21:59:55] <mshaver> yep, sorry about the bad image
[21:59:59] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure how closely they match
[22:00:18] <jmkasunich> I think some of the earliest screen stuff might not make it into dmesg
[22:00:24] <SWPadnos> does it run if you try it a second time?
[22:00:27] <mshaver> I wonder where else I could look?
[22:00:36] <mshaver> no
[22:00:59] <SWPadnos> check /etc/rc2.d, and see if realtime is in there
[22:01:03] <mshaver> before I recompiled I was getting "mismatch 531 vs 533" or something like that
[22:01:20] <mshaver> hold on, I'll look
[22:01:20] <jmkasunich> rtai_fifos and rtai_sem show 0 under "used by"
[22:01:30] <jmkasunich> you should be able to rmmod them
[22:01:44] <SWPadnos> sudo /etc/init.d realtime stop should take care of it
[22:01:47] <SWPadnos> or halrun -U
[22:01:50] <jmkasunich> that should then make rtai_sched have zero, and you can rmmod that
[22:01:59] <jmkasunich> and finally rmmod rtai_hal
[22:02:11] <jmkasunich> or do what SWPadnos says, and save a lot of typing
[22:02:14] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:02:37] <SWPadnos> or rmmod rtai_fifos rtai_sem rtai_sched rtai_hal (order is important ;) )
[22:03:17] <mshaver> OK, going to try this - back in a moment | 2
[22:03:21] <jmkasunich> as an experiment, you might want to physically remove the 5i20, reboot, and lsmod to confirm that with the card not there, the rtai modules do NOT get loaded
[22:03:57] <SWPadnos> that's what the check in rc2.d is for - maybe there's S##realtime or something
[22:04:07] <jmkasunich> right now we're assuming that the 5i20 is getting detected and causing this, it would be good to test that assumption
[22:04:16] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:05:57] <KimK> One more quick Q about recent issues: If I install (reinstall?) from the EMC2 ISO (not Ubuntu+EMC2script), will updater offer updates for EMC2, RTAI kernel, (other?) and if so should I allow them?
[22:06:26] <jmkasunich> updater will offer updates for every installed package
[22:06:31] <SWPadnos> yes, using either install method, the updater will show available updates
[22:06:48] <SWPadnos> allowing them (or turning off the updater) is a personal choice
[22:07:01] <SWPadnos> I generally do, FWIW
[22:07:04] <jmkasunich> I typically accept all updates
[22:07:35] <KimK> OK. But for the time being, there are issues with Ubuntu+script, correct?
[22:08:02] <SWPadnos> there is one issue, which is easily worked around
[22:08:15] <SWPadnos> the issue is that the RT kernel isn't marked as the default after the install
[22:08:19] <jmkasunich> when Ubuntu updates the generic kernel, it tends to put the generic kernel at the top of the boot list instead of the RT kernel
[22:08:30] <jmkasunich> the answer is to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[22:08:49] <jmkasunich> before you reboot, after an update of the generic kernel
[22:09:07] <SWPadnos> you can move the RT kernel above the automagic kernels list, and it should end up as default for a long time (even after an RT kernel update, so you'd have to manually edit again)
[22:09:15] <KimK> and whatever is at the top of the boot list is the default?
[22:09:26] <jmkasunich> more-or-less
[22:09:31] <SWPadnos> you can also uninstall the generic kernel once you're satisfied that the RT kernel works
[22:09:36] <jmkasunich> there is actually a place in the file where you can specify a number
[22:09:44] <jmkasunich> it's usually zero, which is top of list
[22:09:47] <SWPadnos> then you'll only get updates for the RT kernel, and the most recent will generally be the default
[22:11:12] <KimK> OK, thank you both. mshaver back yet?
[22:11:32] <SWPadnos> I don't see him. surprising that he didn't connect on the EMC box :)
[22:12:59] <KimK> Oh, and what was the name of that other (competing?) RT kernel project?
[22:13:14] <jmkasunich> there are a few
[22:13:21] <jmkasunich> Xenomai, RTLinux
[22:14:24] <mshaver> /etc/udev/rules.d/99-rtai.rules.d
[22:14:38] <KimK> Xenomai was the one I was trying to recall. Any of them likely to eventually replace RTAI?
[22:14:40] <mshaver> SWPadnos: it does work the 2nd time
[22:14:48] <SWPadnos> ok
[22:14:54] <mshaver> emc clears out the preloaded modules
[22:14:58] <SWPadnos> the runscript cleans up after the apparent "failed run"
[22:15:00] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:15:18] <mshaver> so, I guess that's the workaround!
[22:15:33] <SWPadnos> or add halrun -U to some startup script ;)
[22:15:49] <mshaver> that'd work too!
[22:16:29] <mshaver> so, I think I was going to try AXIS lathe mode when all this came up. I think that's what I'll do now...
[22:18:44] <SWPadnos> heh - enjoy :)
[22:21:15] <KimK> Thanks for your help. Back in a few minutes...
[22:22:23] <KimK> KimK is now known as KimK_NE_AFK
[22:47:10] <jmkasunich> hi seb