[00:08:31] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0836.JPG
I see no steppers
losing a step would be disastrous
1 am time to go home
i do need a better model though
the strut in the center of the spool should be longer
I bet you get better stiffness and control of the motion as the triangles (mount point, wire to bottom of strut, strut, wire from top of strut back to mount point) approach equilateral
i didnt have any longer lego axles
the problem with that arrangement is that it isn't very stiff in torsion around the strut centerline
it isnt very stiff in Z either
thats because the triangles are shallow
i will try coupling two lego axles together
oh, I just realised - do you intentionally have the "wheels" at each end of the strut offset from each other?
that will improve C rigidity, at the expense of coupling Z and C
still playing with logo.../me has a few at home :)
i can detach and rotate the wheel, it's about the same Z rigidity either way
to truly constrain all 6 degrees of freedom _and_ provide a preload for the wires, you need seven
the flying object could be a T shape
two wires to one end if the crosspiece, two to the other end of the crosspiece, and three to the base of the upright
ideally the wires meet at three points, and those points determine the orientation of the object
apparently those spherical air bearings i made are selling for 50k each
you should ask for a raise
one to zygo, and now a couple to lockheed martin
ironically, i did
after you remove all mention of being paid to chat on IRC from the logs ;-)
haha, my boss talks to me while i am chatting
he doesn't care as long as the machines run.
i lost my heart to a starship trooper!
flashing lights in hyperspaceeee
* fenn wonders about the typical ratio of horizontal vs vertical forces in an end-milling scenario
depends on helix angle
seems like horizontal would dominate because of higher lip area on the flank
and lead, if any
and most milling strategies spend more time going sideways than up and down
that is correct - horizontal dominates for most milling operations.
fenn. found lots of studies on milling forces, this looks informative http://www2.tku.edu.tw/~tkjse/3-1/3-1-2.pdf
and this tech site in brasil ? is a good resource ( no $$$ ! :) http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1678-58782004000100013
yah The Brazilian Society of Mechanical Sciences and Engineering
[01:44:06] <h2i> http://archimedes.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal/
-- anyone tried it? from wikipedia: "the developers hope to create software better suited for architecture "
wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_(CAD)
Does anyone here know if it's possible to build a three-axis mill for metal?
most people who build mills wind up cutting lots of aluminum.
That's a dumb question...
Copper is even softer.
any soft metals are okay on most machines.
How much would you estimate it would cost?
no idea, you'll have to ask one of the guys in here who built from scratch.
I've done a good bit of soldering and prototyping, so assembling an AVR-based controller wouldn't be the end of the world.
Speaking of which...is it possible to mill PCBs easily?
it wouldn't really help much though, unfortunately
I don't really know much about milling....
(tha AVR controller that is)
many people mill pcbs, so yes
there are programs for it specifically, but again (unfortunately) you'll have to wait until one of those people wakes up.
I think I need to learn CAD.
you can mill most basic parts without cad/cam.
for quick prototyping, it's pretty useful. if you want to make more than 3 or 4 of something, or you want plated holes or solder mask, then the low price proto shops are better
SWPadnos: That's the idea.
there's a script for Eagle that generates PCB milling G-code, but I have no idea how to use it
(Eagle or the script ;) )
So, has anyone here DIY'd a CNC machine?
I believe so. I'm not one of them though
you may be better off getting some good old iron for not too much money, then doing a retrofit
i would agree with that.
ebay, craigslist, or some relatively local industrial surplus place would be good places to start
SWPadnos, I think you just run the script when you are in the CAM screen
or the board editor
I don't use Eagle at all, so, uh, thanks anyway :)
A manual milling machine?
like a Bridgeport or something
spastic_teapot: old iron is a pre-existing machine
Got a link to a conversion example?
you can use either a broken CNC, or a manual machine
I don't have any offhand, but there are plenty
"old iron" usually refers to vintage output transformers for tube amps in my neck of the woods.
a broken CNC is likely better, though the ways may have more wear
yeah, old cnc stuff is highly brand and useage dependant
but i'm not sure you'd need a real example of a converted old machine - the process is simple compared to a machine complete from scratch
I would imagine.
it's a milling machine, with the handles yanked off and steppers/servos in their place
speaking of project cncs, there was an awesome leblond and an awesome mazak on ebay
neither had a control, but they were both full CNC engine lathes
but i think they were both 5-6k usd, so out of the range of most
but ready to go sans control
[02:10:40] <spastic_teapot> http://cgi.ebay.com/Newport-CNC-Bridgeport-Clone-Milling-Machine-NR_W0QQitemZ220286889264QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220286889264&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
i'd have to look at that machine really hard before accepting that amount of rust
but yes, that's what you're looking for
that kind of machine will be an order of magnetude better than anything you can throw together at this stage.
Too big, though.
if that's too big, you aren't going to be able to fit old iron
I was sort of hoping for something that I could move without a forklift.
"old iron" comes in two sizes, bridgeport-sized, and larger
Most of the DIY setups I've seen look like they don't weigh more than a hundred pounds or so.
bridgeports are small milling machines.
people have plenty of success with the desktop style machines they build
especially for pcb stuff
Which, ironically, I'll have to heavily bribe an old-school fabricator to make for me.
one of the folks here got a zenbot, and after significant changes it's actually usable (for PCB milling)
here's his blog entry about it: http://axis.unpy.net/01188338604
[02:14:52] <spastic_teapot> http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/06/21/home-made-cnc-machine/
spastic_teapot: i am assuming you don't have a garage
or, if you do, are looking to use it for other things
like parking a car
yes, things like that
I've got a basement.
what i was getting at is i've never met anyone who has regretted getting a bridgeport.
a quick eBay search turned this up: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving_W0QQitemZ190256577567QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190256577567&_trkparms=72%3A1209%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
well, specific machines, yes, but a bridgeport-sized machine, no
but they're difficult to move into a basement
very easy to move into a garage.
out of a basement is harder
toastydeath: Won't be living here forever....
let me rephrase that
That CNC router-engraver on eBay looks sweet.
it's tiny and light
200x150x22mm travels - very small
err - 42 for Z
I know what 22mm is.
a bridgeport is like 30"x12"x10"
that's <1 inch ;)
and like i said, easy to move in and out of garages - but you have to have a garage.
the travels are closer to 24" x 10" x 5" (plus the 16" of quill travel)
SWPadnos: It's about 1.5 inches...
Also, I don't think I can afford a proper milling machine.
22mm isn't. 42mm is
Wait...is it 22mm or 42mm?
it's actually 42mm. I typoed 22mm at first
that's a reasonable amount for PCB engraving, since many PCB drills and engravers are close enough to the same length and you only need ~5mm of travel for actual milling/drilling/routing
3mm would probably do actually
(for standard thickness PCB substrates)
Eh - I think I'd be better off just etching my PCBs and using SMD for the whole thing.
I'm more interested in cutting things out of sheets of metals.
personally, I usually wonder why people don't use the quick-turn proto houses, when it's ~$30/board
but people do get good use from milling their own boards, so I won't argue with that success
if i may make a suggestion, and others may disagree with me who have more experience
SWPadnos: $30/board is a lot.
but milling straight through a sheet of metal is a huge pain in the butt
Especially when I'm likely to have made a severe goof.
spastic_teapot: you can make quite a few goofs for the 700+ it's going to cost you
to get a mill and some basic tooling
toastydeath: Mostly I want to cut sheets of metal a few mm thick.
a mill, in my opinion, is the wrong tool to do that, but it's doable.
if you consider the time it takes to get the G-code done and profed out, then the time it takes to actually mill the board (which can be many minutes or hours), then it starts to look less and less great
and the fact that you can't have solder mask or plated holes ...
toastydeath: A better option is....?
but it builds charactor
Plasma sounds expensive.
unfortunately that's expensive compared to diy milling
in the short term
in the long term, it's less expensive
Also, isn't it not very high precision?
but like i said
milling thin, and even thick, sheets of metal is a huge pain in the butt
I was hoping to use this for jewelry....
Cutting things out with a tiny saw is a pain in the ass.
One goof, and you have to start over.
the issue is holding things, and relocating the part.
i had to make some simple things - a pair of 11" flange covers
for some guy at school
3x .750" holes, 11" diameter
took me forever because holding it was ridiculous
the cuts took 5 minutes, tops
holding the plates took me days because i had to make fixtures
and then re-locate the part and fixture again
it's doable, though.
Plan B is to use a heavy-duty etch mask and use high current to etch the metal.
if you really are looking to make jewlery, a mill might be more useful
for engraving patterns and whatnot
plus you can cnc a 4th axis later and do rings and stuff
Weren't you just saying that a mill was not such a good idea?
it isn't, for sheet.
for other stuff, it's amazing.
i am just thinking out loud, sorry.
i imagine if i had to cut sheet really often i'd have the stuff all made up to hold it
Any suggestion for the best way to cut high-precision parts out of 18ga. sheet?
it's still a pain, but if i did it a lot i could make it less of a pain
lol, a 1.5" thick block of aluminum, some taps and bolts, and some sticky tape
you bolt the block of alum to the table, and now you have a surface you can drill and tap to put bolts and things through
[02:34:00] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-ROUTER-SIDEWINDER-SIDE-WINDER_W0QQitemZ320306062123QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320306062123&_trkparms=72%3A1209%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
the sticky tape will hold the plate down.
There are some special clamps that you use for holding thin metal in a drill press.
for freeform milling.
drilling != miling
in milling, the big issue is that the part comes free.
you are going to mill a shape, and it's going to start flopping everywhere and go crazy
milling introduces side loads, and you also end up with pieces flying off the work (sometimes the part you want)
but seriously, double stick tape
What if I did something with this?
[02:35:50] <spastic_teapot> http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/31/finds-northern-tools-cross-slide-drill-press-vise/
a toolmaker at the local college i go to used to cut 4 foot by 4 foot, .250 sheets of metal
on a huge vertical lathe
with nothing but tape
had to go slow, but it works.
not going to work, dude
milling sheet means the sheet has to be bolted in critical locations, or taped down
you can't even hold sheet in a vise because the edge force bows it
and if you DO manage to get it clamped, it'll pop out as soon as you start milling
What if the sheet was taped down to a block of wood?
i'd refer you back to the block of aluminum
wood works, but it's not the best
put a bolt pattern in an aluminum block so it bolts to the table
flycut it so it's flat with your machine
and then you can clean it with alcohol and use double sided tape
as long as it doesn't get too hot during the process, it'll hold very well
just be really careful in the order you do things, or you'll cut yourself into a spot where it's impossible to complete the part
that's why plasma is so superior - you can just burn the part out and you're done
laser even more so.
Laser sounds like the best option.
Also the most expensive.
not as accurate as milling, but more accurate and better finish than plasma
sort of - some dudes manage to scavange CO2 heads
at that point it's no worse than any other machine tool
Also, I'm not familiar with the term "fly cutting".
are you familiar with lathe tools
basically a flycutter is a large, adjustible radius tool with only one cutting point
it's used for finising large surfaces accurately
I'm not much of a machinist.
[02:43:34] <toastydeath> http://www.finelinehair.com/home/fly_cutter_straight_shank.jpg
Although it sounds like I ought to learn....
there's quite a vocabulary
i am a machinist apprentice
if you have a local community college, look in the noncredit section
many schools have a very tiny machine shop and like, one class
I'm headed for one next year.
We have a very big machine shop.
i would recommend delaying the project until you had some in-school experience
I'll just keep up using the jewler's saw.
I hate that thing soooo much.
if you are really hard up to get on something, then do it
but you're going to find things you wish you did differently
so it's whatever you prefer
Eh....I'm in no huge hurry.
I'd like to be able to make things without spending hours bent over a bench pin, but it sounds like the best way to go.
* toastydeath shrug
what school, if you don't mind my asking
Madison Area Technical College.
My father teaches there.
I figure I can spend a few years as a starving artist before going off and getting a teaching or communications degree.
Life is too !@#$ short to spend it all sitting in a cubicle.
i concur heartily
Dumb question...but wouldn't a laser work poorly on reflective metals?
I've been looking around, and building a laser cutter might not be so hard.
You don't need beefy steppers (there's no mechanical resistance), and the X-Y sliding tray assembly need not deal with much vibration.
never ran a laser, i just know that they're better for sheet
than a mill
And I would assume that gluing one to something disposalble - maybe a brick? - would keep it from moving.
oh, you don't even have to hold it down
Also, I could make many LOLcats-based jokes.
I'm in ur machine shop, FIRIN MAH LASAR!
obvious anon is obvious
i dunno man, it's hard to say for sure that you need a laser
and not a mill
because obviously i don't know the particulars of what you intend to do
but you'll find out.
Does anyone know what the U.S. laws on lasers are?
Apparently, I might need some sort of permit.
law... dont look directly into laser beam with remaining eye...
in soviet russia, laser beam shouldn't look directly into YOU
seb_kuzminsky: I think the surface-mount board I was telling you about last week is a success
several WTF moments along the way, but once I figured out what was going on it all made sense
the last problem is that the XTAL2 pin (used to run the crystal oscillator) is also a GPIO, and my led-flasher program was stomping on that pin and stopping the clock
joe__ is now known as spasticteapot_ha
spasticteapot_ha is now known as spasticteapot__
jepler: cool :-)
emc has been making my lathe cut air all night, i'm a bit nervous about actually chucking something up in it. any first-run advice??
its a garage conversion el-cheapo lathe, so i guess it won't hurt too bad when it crashes
price wise that is
can you say what in particular has you nervous?
be careful of the tool and chuck jaws colliding - be sure of where Z is set
hmm just the whole thing, i've never cut anything on cnc before
mostly nervous about making a bozo mistake that i should have heard about
mistakes come from untested gcode, or incorrectly set offsets (even with tested gcode)
if you're cutting air into the right shape that's a good start :-)
if you check where your zeroes are, and the extents of the program, it'll be fine
yes! air cuts very nice, and tooling is cheap
it runs so slow, except for the rapids
hard to tell exactly what its cutting
maybe try some plastic or wood first?
I wouldn't - those can actually be harder to deal with
plastic melts, wood burns and badly dulls tools
aluminum and brass are good to start with
i've got a hunk of aluminum
i was hoping i'd be able to turn some hardwood on it, for making coyote calls
maybe need a different type of tool though i guess
some nice 1/4 inch aluminum bar?
i have a 3/4" aluminum bar
and a decent amount of it
for wood, use carbide, turn the spindle up as fast as it will go
cemented carbine indexable inserts okay?
ah, maybe it's a little bigger lathe than I thought
its a 9" swing x 20" long
heh, I think of that as full size :-)
much bigger than my chucker
weighs a few hundred pounds before i stripped its gears and most of the useful things off it for cnc
oddly enough after the cnc conversion i can move it by myself, so i'd say its under 200 lbs
ah, mine weighs about two tons - a little different :-)
but, I can move it by myself too!
just takes a few simple tools.
cradek: shop crane?
seb_kuzminsky: pry bar, rollers
well i can heft mine around with nothing but brute force if need be
it's easy, just takes some thinking ahead
how do you move it up the stairs?
i believe you :-)
it's just... 2 tons on a prybar :-)
yeah mine is in my 2nd story apartment
I did move the bridgeport up a 2" step... easy
you have a winch on the bus yet? ;-)
seb_kuzminsky: I have a couple nice 4? foot bars
amazing what a 10-20x multiplier of one's own weight does
you lift an edge and put it up on a little dolly roller?
just some 1/2" steel rod
you can turn corners - just fan out the rods
it's easy to put it just where you want with a little practice
then when it's there, lift it with the prybar and pull the steel rods out again?
yes, you end up with one or two still under it that you have to lift off of
for short distances you can just scoot it with the bar - like moving back against a wall or something.
sort of walk it on the "wrists" of a couple of prybars?
well i know who i'm inviting next time i need some rigging done ;-)
yeah I'm an expert - I've moved **two** machines :-)
obviously I know everything there is to know!
i've moved two too, but they weighed 150 lbs each ;-)
oh, another thing, rent a forklift when you need it, no need to be an idiot
a pal here bought a shop crane to move his welder around, i might try that before the forklift
the crane's a pretty sweet tool if there's good lift points
stows away in a corner too, when not needed :-)
some stuff you can lift from the top, like my mill - lathe, only bottom
hey, did you read the hal ramblings i emailed you the other night
the mill has a nice hole for a chain at the balance point
yes - I went looking for "newinst" which I recall someone adding, maybe on a branch, but I didn't find it
it was a way to get pins 'later' after module loading
one fevery moment i imagined making a different comp_id for each pin...
I think you should talk to jmk; this isn't my strong area
ok i will
oh, it's in the code, just #if 0ed
#if 0 /* newinst deferred to version 2.2 */
though i feel i've abused his hospitality enough with the firmware crap a few months ago
newinst uses /proc ... somehow
have you looked at this?
not before just now
it might even be done, but the author wasn't quite bold enough to enable it
(I'm not at all sure it helps you)
something to look into at least
Does anyone here know a good place to buy enormous numbers of high-speed steel drillbits?
any other qualifiers?
I bet many places have a quantity discount - how big is enormous?
I need some "#52", "#55" and "#59" drillbits (I'm not so sure what these are - I think in metric), and about forty of each.
That's what the teacher specified.
oh forty, heh
yeah i was thinking in the thousands
Considering how fast people break the drillbits, I'm thinking triple that.
cradek: Soft metal.
These are for ham-fisted students, so no carbide.
oh right, you said hss
those are american sizes, not metric
and they are very small sizes
good night all
Should I just drive out to Harbor Freight?
hope you have a very high speed spindle!
no, you will only find sets there, and they really quite suck
you will have to order them. I like enco (use-enco.com)
you could save some cash if you'd go to a 1/16" instead of a #52
yes 1/16 will be much cheaper
only .010" difference I believe
how deep will they need to drill? very fast spindle I assume?
3/64 is close to a 55
I bet 3/64 will not be cheaper though
cradek: Reasonably fast.
yeah maybe not
1/16 would likely work okay.
dremels can't chuck up any old drill bit
they have specific sizes of collets, and I don't know what they are
i've had good drill bit success wtih wttool.com
dunno about quantities greater than 2-3 though
most collets should be able to accept a .010" difference
We've got a few with aftermarket clampy-bits on the end.
I'm looking at enco - they have a huge variety of drillbits.
I can't find one that just says "ordinary drillbit", though.
[04:19:31] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=891-4571&PMPXNO=3904522&PARTPG=INLMK32
you want just like a jobber bit probably
$.66 at qty 60
if you don't need to drill deep, consider screw machine (shorter) drills
135 degree split points are much better at starting the hole where you want, but they cost more
cradek: Screw machine bits sound about right.
As do the 135-degree split points.
How tough are these?
A lot of the students are...ham-fisted.
I keep yelling at some of them to stop trying to light the hammers on fire.
will they be holding the dremel by hand to drill?
This is not hyperbole.
there is no such thing as a tough 1/16" drill bit
hows $0.36/ea sound
Sounds like we need some mini-drillpresses.
I've got one of the old-fashioned ones you fit a power drill in.....
[04:22:24] <dareposte1> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/22768/nm/Number_Size_Jobber_Drills_WT_Import_
dareposte1: ship weight 1.00 lbs !?!?
guess they round up
box weight: 15.99 ounces
the one at enco is a 10x better drill for 2x the price
I would guess as much.
yeah i'd say it probably is
66 cents isn't too bad.
$40 will get me 20 drillbits of three sizes.
Any chance you can recommend me a good hand-punch set?
I'm starting to rethink my Harbor Frieght shopping list....
I'm sure you can find much cheaper, but I refuse to buy the cheapest drills because they make every job suck.
what do you mean hand-punch set?
i've had pretty good luck with the wttool drill bits, but i got the US ones
cradek: A hand punch for making holes in metal?
what kind of holes in what kind and thickness of metal?
i got a 7/8" tap from there too for a one-time use type thing and it was pretty good as well, it was the "import" one
[04:28:14] <dareposte1> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/25674/nm/Number_Size_Jobber_Drills_USA_
is the us bit, but enco is cheaper on that one
if you can get by with the 1/16 size only, you might find them cheap in the bulk bin at your hardware store
cradek: As big as possible in 18ga. brass.
I do not have experience with that
[04:29:29] <spasticteapot__> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=505-0439&PMPXNO=950610
Is this any good?
making holes in sheet can be hard
$10 is suspiciously cheap.
[04:29:41] <dareposte1> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/38512/nm/High_Speed_Hole_Saws
oh, tiny holes :-)
I was thinking inches
he said as big as possible...
yeah, that's not very precise is it
we use some hand punches like that for shim stock at work
the biggest it will do without major straining is 0.5mm
but brass might punch easier than steel
18 gauge is 1.2mm
no idea what gauge is 0.5mm though
maybe 28 gauge would be close
I think I figured out my problem.
That's an $80 hand punch.
better is the type you slide the shim in and put a punch on it and smack it with a hammer
like a punch and die
I've seen people use hand punches for large holes on projects.
Also, unlike a punch and die, you can use them on curved surfaces.
That said, big holes are nice.
we try not to let our shims curve
Any suggestions on where I could buy either a hand punch or hammer punch set cheaply?
the die set keeps them nice and flat
dareposte1: Things like earrings and beads tend to be curved.
never tried punching those, only shims
Hence the hand punch.
Anyway...where can I buy these cheaply?
Harbor Freight has them, but Harbor Frieght is rubbish.
i don't think they get much cheaper than a benjamin
if you have some machine tooling you can make a punch and die pretty easily though
depending on your accuracy requirements
I just want to get a set for making holes.
holes of a particular size? or just any hole without specific needs for accuracy
i doubt the hand punch you linked to would punch 16ga, but it doesn't really specify its capacity
dareposte1: This one looks the same, and is rated for 14ga.
[04:47:42] <spasticteapot__> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FPOYQU?smid=A2ZSTDEXO9VTZF&tag=nextag-tools-tier4-20&linkCode=asn
brass has a shear strength around 35ksi
so for a 1/4" hole you'd need about 1200 lbs
in 18 ga. brass sheet
the enco one you listed said its "one ton" so it would probably do it for brass
The enco one is $80.
That's a little steep.
Also, 3/8" is just fine...
Odds are that the school will buy the J.C. Whitney punch, it will get used until it falls to bits, and then a better one will be bought in its stead.
the frame probably won't wear out, you can replace the punch sets if you can find them
dareposte1 is now known as dareposte
[05:50:51] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3Nm3vwkpY
eek, you need to cover your ballscew before you cut
it's reading 9 thousandths, no, 11 thousandths, hell I don't know what it's reading. [end of video]
oh darn, he left
hello anybody up?
so, I killed emc somehow
I was customizing a config, edit start emc, exit emc and repeat. It was finally working and then it stopped.
It would show the config selector, then it would do nothing once I selected my config, everything was running according to system monitor but no visible axis.
if I tried to start it agin, it would show the "emc is already running, restart?" dialog.
so, restart, yes, and still nothing.
rebooted, and still the same.
I can't get emails through to the list again
anyone else having troubles?
I've had endless problems with both the mailing list, and emc2 :(
source forge is laggy
more than a day for emails to get through?
I get the digest and sometimes nothing for a day, then two or three digents at once
that's a pain
I see the list gets about 1 to 3 new topics per day now
yeah, Source Forge needs a congressional bailout
or 1 to 3 replies, maybe
I have been to lazy to look on the server
digest when it comes is just fine
so, you a whiz? I got problems
I'm just trying to figure out if there are some next steps I can take to once and for all figure a way past my latency problems
I'm having a hard time tracking down a complete list of culprits
oh, I have dealt with some of that
were you victorious?
that's exciting news
I'm starting around 6-8k when I fire up latency-test
were you on the email about fixing the SMI last week?
but I did see that
if I browse the net, and open a detailed flash game, it goes to about 35-40k
if I then pop open glxgears, about 150k+
and if I maximize glxgears, it jumps to almost 400k
if I then use the arrows to move the gears around, it goes as high as 520k
well, I try not to do anything other than EMC, even though you are supposed to be able to
which is apparently horrendous
yes, yes it is.
I was told in here last night that my card is okay
'02 Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600
someone else was using a a comparable card from around that vintage
some people disable things like sound
that's a new one to me
well, in a perfect world your computer does what it's told by emc, but there is all this other crap trying to do what it want to do, sound bluetooth etc etc.
I see - other interrupts?
I've got 3 machines in here - 2 shuttles, and the new big box I built early this year
the oldest of the shuttles is the machine bench box
I'm totally fine with disabling everything not related to machining
and leaving it that way
I am pretty much a noob, but I have been working on the learning curve to get to the point where I do a custom kernel that does not have anything you don't need to run EMC
that's getting toward gentoo territory
yeah exactly, the old controls were slow, and they worked because they were not looking for bit torrents and who knows what else
a linux distro that's only distributed as source
it's built around designing it exactly how you want it
kinda takes ages to set up for a newb
tons of reading
I am not there yet
but it's touted as the distro with the most advanced help files
metric tons of information
gentoo folks are considered the ricers of the linux world
it uses something I think they call flags
compile flags, basically
so you can say, e.g. no sound, yes bluetooth, no [intricate tiny piece of the kernel I don't understand], etc
and then finally compile, and wait overnight for it to finish :)
a lot of people on other distros use gentoo's online help files to figure out their related problems, because they really do have just tons of good info
yeah, the best book on linux I have found so far is "Understanding UNIX, a conceptual guide" from 1983
wow, that's my favorite year
it says "Compliments of Hewlett Packard" on the cover
and interesting that it's the best, as Linux wasn't started until '95
nor released until '96
this SMI thread seems rather useful to me, now that I'm reading through it
well, it helped me stop being confused, because it presupposes no knowlege at all.
the Nvidia binary drivers look to be crap (I'm using those)
then I could read some more sofisticated info with out gettting too lost.
one of the best 'computer' books I ever read was a book on assembly language
similar thing happened
he spent about 90% of the book not talking about ASM
he started with how transistors work
then how they're used in buses
how those become banks
how registers work
nice, what was it called?
by the time I got to the assembly, I knew how computers worked inside and out
and it was like "Well, of course you'd flip that bit in register 3, duh." :)
[07:55:49] <gfixler> http://www.amazon.com/Art-Assembly-Language-Randall-Hyde/dp/1886411972
I then made a few things in an assembly compiler, but have never really used it since, sans a bit of work in PIC Assembler for PIC microchips, which was really easy to understand given this book's training
is'nt that more for the C programming side of things?
still, it really opened up my lower-level understanding
my buddy is all inot PICs
isn't what for that?
flipping bits in registers
it's below C
you're actually specifically telling some physical thing on the chip to do something specific
in C, you more often tell it what you want it to do (add two numbers, eg), and it figures out all of the steps underneath at the register level
yeah, I get that. Transister on!
you can code PICs in C
but it's really easy in assembly, too
it makes more sense to me, because I know exactly what I want it to do
C feels like an unnecessary abstraction to me
though I suppose it is a bit easier
yeah my friend is making a pic board tonight, I have seen him compile C for them before
in C you would do something more like 3 + 4
in asm, you'd set the address of a register, then use that to push 3 in
then do that with 4
then a couple other steps I forget now :)
I did some assembly back in the day, I used to cart around the 6502 assembly programming guide , oooh yeah me and my commodore 64
your answer would be the result on another register that you'd read
[08:01:12] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/908363/
so, 20 years away from programming has been a bit of a conceptual leap
that's about as far as I got with PICs
bit aspirations, poor commitment
*big* aspirations, I meant
you can get in trouble for that shiz in boston.........
yeah, too many project dreams
what if the message on the LEDs is "I [heart] BOSTON?"
I keep building machines, and kinda use them and then move on. My plan for this winter is to actually understand EMC and get them all functional
say I love boston in Gaelic, then you will be ok.
that's a big plan
well, yes, but I have been twiddling with emc for about 6-8 months
the EMC crowd talks about connecting HAL pins like it's common knowledge :)
dude, it's true, but you have to 'get that' before you can move on.
tonight i actually connected a pin, for the first time.
the biggest problem is my attitude
I have so many projects in so many areas that when I realize I have to crack open a few hundred pages of books, it really knocks the wind out of my sails
the machine that I use regularly is just one of the instant configs and it works fine, but I have a router with dual Y axis motors that I have to do a little more involved
thanks! A small victory
it's hard to concentrate for sure
i just sneak a little reading in when I can
i printed out the EMC intergrators manual and got it bound, so I don't have to read it on the screen
I have a small problem retaining it with all the other junk in my head
I just stated a notebook.
maybe I should assign something like 10-20 minutes per night to it
that's a good idea
I feel like I want a video tutorial on all of it
it can be 2 hours long - I don't mind
I hate it when I know I have fixed a problem before and can't remember what I did, then you get on google again
did you ever use Mach3
I seem to be able to pick up information told to me far faster through video how-tos
involves more of my senses
I hate that, too
I've had a few instances of looking up something I can't remember, and finding me giving the answer in a Flickr image's description, or in some forum, or in my journal
no, I hate forgetting the solution
I haven't used mach3
yeah, voilla notebook
it's closed-source, right?
yeah windows, 150$
I've gotten totally fed up with Windows, and closed-source stuff
have you used it?
it works but it's a windows resource hog, you need a fast computer
it just made me hate windows more
I have to use XP at work, but I've been on Linux at home for 2 years now
I had tried Knoppix awhile before switching, and didn't really like it
I had a computer with the SMI problem, and it made Mach3 puke at random intervals. So, it's windows and there is NOTHING you can do.
then Ubuntu appeared, got a lot of press, and I got hacked badly at home on XP
so I switched in anger
and vented for about 2 months or so while using Linux
now I love it
I had a text file of all that I hated about Linux
like no UltraEdit32
then one day I tried Vim, and I love it at least 10x more than UltraEdit
it moves the way I think
now I have all manner of cool hotkeys and tricks set up
yeah, I have been goofing on linux for about a year, a little less, stared with Ubuntu
things I can't do on XP, or Vista
I had a dual boot for awhile - too afraid to let go of XP
but I never booted into XP
months would go by
then a friend wanted me to make him something in Flash, and I had to boot over to it
and I hated it
felt like I was mistreating my PC for making it run Windows :)
oh, you program for a living?
I'm about as close as it gets to being a programmer without being one
I'm always dabbling
but I still know only a marginal amount of C/C++
my day job is in animation
I rig them up, and occasionally animate them, and write a lot of tools to help out in an embedded language in the 3D package, and lately in Python - newly added to the 3D app
it's like windows is one of those asshole guys who mistreats his girlfriend. You are not fast enough so I am dumping you for new hardware.
god python is cool
it is pretty cool
certain things about it annoy me
the biggest one is that it's hard for me to tell what works in place, and what returns a modified copy
I wrote a tiny python program, but I am reading tons about it
e.g. the difference between sort and sorted
is that the tuple thing?
it's just that some of the commands seem object based, and some function based
ok, well you are much farther along than I am
and I feel like I'm always looking up what's what
to join a list into a string, you might write: ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list'].join(' ')
that would join the words with spaces
into a string: "this is a list"
but to split a string into a list that way, you'd write: ' '.split('this is a list')
this breaks flow to me
in the first one, it reads "here's a list, join it with spaces"
in the second, "here's a space, use that to join this list into a string."
to me, it should be: 'this is a list'.split(' ')
same as its inverse
i find the syntax of it all very confusing
that would read "here's a string, split it into a list around it's spaces"
yeah what you are syaing make total sense
one reason why it makes sense to me my way is this:
'this is a list'.split(' ').join('-')
right I see that
imo, that should split the list around spaces, then join it back together with dashes
so what do you animate?
I did that kind of thing in Flash Actionscript all the time
I work for a small LA-based video game company
for phones or the web
no, games for consoles and the PC
and some handhelds
we did do a phone game once for Jamdat, but I wasn't on that one
I did not realize they used flash for tose
I've made stuff for Gamecube, Xbox, PS1, PS2, and PSP
oh, those aren't flash
the flash stuff was a hobby
fancy game engines
or more accurately, crappy, annoying game engines with which we do battle all day every day
games are a bit less fun on the making side
I find that's true with anything wherein I have real responsibilities, though
for example, making a game is fun, and playing a game is fun
making a game for a company is work, and play-testing a game for a company is also work
it's opened my eyes, though, and actually helped me become content, and more happy
yeah, i love building stuff and I love getting paid, but building stuff for money gets me down, but since thats how I make my living........
how old are you?
I recall years ago in another deadline crunch there at 2AM again thinking "I'm in video games... why does this suck?"
then I finally learned the secret
ANYthing can suck
it's all in your head
overall I enjoy what I do, so I'm happy to leave it there and not wish to be, say, a racecar driver
how you percieve it?
40 feels very near these days
I keep looking up from my desk and realizing it's my birthday
they keep happening
getting your head around your life is the job that never stops.
but its the only worthwhile one
I think we all have something, or some things that are our real dream thing to do
several guys I work with seem in the right place
40 feels like 30 but smarter.
they eat sleep and breathe games
for me, I like making
that's why games is fine for now - I get to make stuff
but I love making real things more and more, as I did when younger
yeah, I look back and think, "god what a dumbass I was"
I'm building up a woodshop
and I have a mini machine shop in my office
mini mill and mini lathe
I've noticed that each year I realize I'm a lot smarter than the previous year
and also each year I feel supremely smart
like I've learned, and know everything
one of these must be incorrect :)
well, I make bicycles for a living and own my local coffee shop. I'm never bored.
so two businesses?
I just get really stressed out and start to hate it all, then my friends are like, gad you have it made.
then I remember that I do and chill out a bit. Yes two buisnesses
I would love to have my own business with a very low number of employees who are also friends, inventing and making things to sell
but I absolutely do not have the personal maturity for it
you must be in Europe
slide into it, take it a step at a time and you will be there before you know it
I'm in LA in the US - it's 1:30AM here
good call, dan
I feel like each year I'm improving a bit
I am in Florida, 4.30 am
I miss FL
I'm in Tallahassee
any trouble with the storms recently?
nah, all rolled by
got my bachelor's in Sarasota
not far away
that was back around 2000
it's changed radically since
Ahm in Nole country up heah
I have not been down there in years
Florida grows every second. It's crazy
it absorbs America's old folks
but yeah, I remember driving all around seeing construction constantly for years
that's all they do there is build more huge gated communities
condos and such
not just old folks, heating bills drive the southern migration for younger people too.
I probably wouldn't recognize a lot now
I forgot it costs a lot more to heat than to cool
I used to live in Boston, last year I lived there I spent 3000$ on heating, oil was 69cents a gallon, can you imagine what it is now?
I had no idea
that's a whole new mini mill and mini lathe with CNC motors thrown in
I had a big leaky warehouse, but still
(I relate all costs of things to what tools I could have bought instead)
warehouse for making bikes?
toools tools tools, I love tools
I'm kind of addicted now
have you ever heard of Rockler?
hands down my favorite quality woodworker's store http://www.rockler.com/
highest signal-to-noise ratio for me of any store ever
I seriously want something like 80% of all of their merchandise
Home Depot is somewhere around 20% :)
and now I've found that I can get to a Rockler store - a real one - in 25 minutes
I've been 2x
and spent almost $500 total
it's bad news for me
the staff is overly friendly, and secretly alerts me of things in my stash that will be on sale soon, or that an alternative in the store is better, and cheaper
when I called once with a question, a real person picked up during the first ring, and had a solid answer for me, wishing me well, and hanging up in under 1 minute
and the sales are outstanding - they regularly drop prices on things I want by 50% or more
I wish every store were like them
but then I'd really be poor
hah, I am an ebay whore
good place for stock
I have this huge pile of steppers and drives and linear motion
80/20 Inc., et al
well, you like to build machines
I have a small pile mysel
omg I just bought 800$ worth of 80/20 for my new project
including a box of 50 new Vexta steppers - all identical
I also grabbed some extremely precise linear actuators from either electronics goldmine, or all electronics
50 steppers....you win
they're all small
but it was absurd
I've used maybe 2 in about 5 years now
I've always loved having several of the same stepper
because then they move the same way in all directions
as a high school kid, it was really hard for me to find steppers
I had to drag them out of printers and the like
often not the same
so I developed some kind of fetish for finding matched pairs (or more) of steppers
when I saw 50 new in a box, I almost fainted
and pulled out my debit card
now I have all manner of resources for getting them, but the love remains
I know right, I bought 21 8051 single board computers for 10bucks....how could I resist?
no one understands
30 12" linear slides for 50$
it's better than gold
oh, no actuators?
just true linear motion
I always seem to have to buy the powertransmission stuff new
the motion control love for me started my last year of high school
I designed a plotter printer I wanted to build
I had so many blueprints, and 3-point perspective drawings
but limited tools with which to build it
I was welding a gocart
small makita table saw
the gear train was the hardest part
finally found out that lego technic gears were pretty good for my needs
if a little sloppy
I didn't know what backlash was, but I could see it, and I didn't like it
people make crazy stuff from that lego
well, the gears and rods were it
the rest was homebrew
1/4" rod fit in wooden blocks for the slides
that mindstorm stuff would have been mine if it existed back in the day
with - and this is horrible - the brass wheels from rope pulleys riding on them
whatever works and then you refine
I was terrible at refinement back then
almost spoiled about it
if it didn't work right away, I gave up in frustration
the best part was the pen holder
I designed it all out, and then cut out plastic plate panels, taping them all together
and then poured resin into that to mold the part
I had previously figured out the electronics for getting Qbasic to read and write stuff through the parallel lport
spent 2 months with a multimeter testing port commands and keeping a list of which color wires did what
then afterwards found that the list was in the back of the printer manual
at least I worked out the same list :)
tons of testing
lots of dead ends
I knew nothing of parallel ports then
just that when I called a port command it would do 'something'
so I explored
in the resin part were all the electronics
a DB-9 plug flush in the top for connecting up the parallel port cable later
i knew nothing of parallel ports untill last january
a little LED and photodiode in a resin arm that stuck out for detecting the edges of a paper
well, I would still say I'm pretty dumb about them
I wanted to use it as a scanner, too
scan in crude black and white stuff
the table was to be black, so it could go around and find the edges
ah, thats why we have the smart EMC guys to figure it out for us.
even of weird paper, or crooked stuff
it just never happened
had to go to college
at least you learned stuff
but it was like the millionth unfinish project
I have a trail of them behind me
I have a 3000 square foot shop
my slaughtered victims
full of crap
I am extremely jealous
plus what I use for work
I am in a rental with a one-car garage
do you have any floor space left?
and a 40 container in the yard for deep storage
I mean I actually work out here,
I'm currently building a wood storage shed, because I can't even store 2x4s and small sheet lumber in the garage anymore
so there are real tools
it's all metal tools?
man, that's such a big shop
what is? :p
but the projects....semifunctional cnc machines actually, are eating the shop
I have <400sq. ft. of room
maybe get one of those POD storage things
put it outside
yup, couple of welders, blast cabinet (big). paint room, assembly area, my jigs take up alot of space. and I live here
gfixler: the space i'm working in is like 36sqft
how do you do it?
do you hang from the ceiling?
most space is taken away by my desk and bed.. :p
working on that, yes
tell me you fit a knee mill in there :)
that's pretty big
Sherline mini mill
it's like a glorified sewing machine
mine (will be) DIY MDF :p
it should have a 10" X, 14" Y and 4" Z axis
cool, wood and plastic cutting?
expecting 60"/min speeds,.. Not that I'll run it at that rate..
dan_the_welder: Yeah :)
[08:59:06] <dan_the_welder> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37510
it's mainly going to be an oversized PCB engraver xD
thats my big router 48 X 96
it cost about 2000 all told i think
took a few months
to me, that is expensive,.. but seeing it's that big, that's really not a bad deal
lots of ebay scores
a little at a time,
[09:00:54] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vc3Fq/FCKBMSHF3HY3SK9.MEDIUM.jpg
<-- that's what I'm aiming for.
bought some steel, welded it up, thought for awhile, got a drive and ebay
so it's two grand but it was just a little at a time
so basically it was a hell of a lot more, but you don't wanna mention that? :p
how accurate/fast is it?
also,.. Where did you buy the alu frame thingies?
I ended up with 'extra' stuff :) for sure
that seems affordable to me
the 80/20 ?
the mini mill was about $1k after extras
all from 80/20 surplus on ebay
and then I got the mini lathe
about $800, IIRC
I just got a killer router table recently
that cost about as much as both of those!
having many hobbies is much worse
I have to think about which hobby deserves the next tool :)
sofar, i've only made the controller for 3 axis, and i'm at $90 including the PSU.
either the CNC, or new welding gear
that's admirable, making your own controller
I rolled up my sleeves years back to do that, and quickly said forget it
I love making things of all kinds, so almost any kind of tool is ripe for the plucking
right now I have the two mini machines, but I'm also building up a big woodshop
gfixler: I designed it, looked at it,;.. said, .. sod it I'll just go with the pminmo controller,.. which is just DIY but the PCB is already designed :p
and would love to get into welding
ah, that's a lot better
welding in a woodshop
sounds like fun
I like building the machines the best
problem is I'm almost entirely out of room
on computers I like making tools
but in the real world I seem to just want to buy tools and make things
dan_the_welder: where do you live?
it's what we do, make tools. it makes you a human
I just,.. love to keep busy
wow, a torch table!
dan_the_welder: mm, too far. :p would 've asked if you wanted to cut the parts for my lil' machine out ;)
I've only used an oxy/acetylene once
I made a steel drum
where did the "torch" table come from?
had to go to Scrap All to get a drum of questionable original purposes
cut it in the welding shop at school
i don't understand fragalot?
then ground the edges
working with metal is so hot and loud
that's my other problem in LA
3 neighbors right on top of me
I always have to give up working at 8PM
when I have at least 5 more hours in me
dan_the_welder: I'm not exactly looking forward to cutting up a 48x48" slab of MDF by hand, cutting out the lil' pieces for my DIY machine,.. your table looks big enough :p
wouldn't that just ignite the mdf?
gfixler: you /SHOULD/ be allowed to work till 10pm before they are ven allowed to complain here
gfixler: his machine looks like a router to me,...
oh, I'm looking at the oxy machine
also, you can cut MDF with a laser easilly,.. Haven't tried a torch yet
maybe if you just hit it with a fire extinguisher the entire time
Dan, that table is awesome
thanks, it's a router, I was gonna make it into a plasma, but have not been able to afford one
it works ok, a bit of flex on the Z, very unconventional linear motion
dan_the_welder: just find a compressor, and plasma nozzle,.. then hook that up to your welding gera :p
ha I wish
I've got a little produced video of my lathe and mill making an adapter if you guys want to see it
aslong as it's not cellphone youtube quality
no, it's pretty pro :)
[09:12:08] <gfixler> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI9_q2Y59_I
hell yeah, if it's on the net I may have aleady sen it
edited it all with textovers and such
it's a bit long
probably enjoying the process too much
are those the rapids you get from a sherline?
well, it can go a bit faster
but I don't like to push
I'd have expected it to be faster,.. giving their price :p
it's a really light-duty machine
I've never gotten emc set up right
that's where I am yet again now
after upgrading to 8.04
I did just get an email from someone on the list
seems my mail did make it through
though I don't see it
looks like my biggest problem is the nvidia driver
lol "kids don't reach in like that"
I don't want to be liable
and there comem the scissors
yeah, I can never just leave the machine alone
I'm always watching over everything like a hawk
that's probably why I got months between operations
thihi, you screwed up
don't want to sit there for 2 hours while it slowly peels away 0.002" at a time
I did leave it once
the last time I used it
I had upped it to about 0.004-0.005" passes
broke the 1/8" bit at 2800 RPMs
it broke diagonally, so it was bouncing up and down on the broken piece jammed in the aluminum
the whole thing was jackhammering all around the table
while i was freaking out trying to stop it all
then I just turned everything off and went and watched TV in disgust
it was the best aligned I'd ever gotten a part
not only aligned, but absolutely 0 movement of the dial test indicator needle
across about 4" of the edge
there's always the barest, almost inperceptable movement
this was dead still the whole way
lol @ 6:50
is that the boring tool?
man, did I feel like an idiot
I didn't realize they were only for sizing existing holes
if you did it slower, you might ahve pulled it off :p
I haven't used that tool since
turns out how it's supposed to be used isn't all that useful to me
I only just noticed this, but your locline things appear to suck instead of blow? o.0
nice vid, I ve seen it before, i think I have watched every one on youtube tagged emc
never seen that before :p
I shave off such a little bit - powder, basically - that it works fantastically well
the thing I'm making there is the adapter for the log-line manifold
which I made out of 1" aluminum square tubing
and a big tap
normally when i see those things it's either blowing air at an insane pressure, or shooting water out that you could almost use it as a water jet :p
I'm a non-conformist
originally I wanted an air/fluid line
I've installed a nice new system in one of the machines (5axis mill) at my summer job last night
then one day while spec'ing all of that out, it occurred to me that it was just going to blow crap all over my office
then you had a eureka
this thing is in my house
in my office
instead of just spraying the parts, basically theres enough water to make the whole compartiment flood (not literally)
it's right behind me now
its' like 3 giant waterfalls, one over the table, and 2 next to the table, picking up shrapnell
you should reach out and pat it, it knows you are talking about it
no more cleaning the machine out everytime you use it rules
after setting up the Loc-Lines, I started seeing them everywhere
on the Science Channel, Discovery, How It's Made, etc
everyone uses those things
they are a pain to assemble if you don't have the tools for it tho :/
hurt my thumbs real bad on those once
they are a smart piece of technology, expensive too
well.. "once",.. one day,.. multiple times.
there's a little machine shop down the street from me
but they're mostly a supplier
they help companies source parts
so the front of the store - tiny - has ancient stuff
all covered in dust
that's where I found them
they had 3 of the hose I wanted
I wanted 4
still have only 3 :)
they never get new inventory
put some fish tank tubing on there.
the spot they were in when I bought them out months ago is still empty
I actually have a ton of that stuff
I saw some 1.5 inch diameter ones in a video of a clay cutting 5 axis thing carving a car body
because I'm also slowly putting together a home anodizing line
yet another project
I saw that one, Dan
dan_the_welder: those are easier to assemble,.. I used those where the lines split to keep the flow up
I have a powercoating setup
didn't notice the loc-lines in it, though
I should probably get a picture of that machine next time I go there
I powdercoat everthing that fits in my oven
I was considering using the woodshop to build a little blasting cabinet
how big is the oven?
my blast cabinet is plywood
yeah, that's all I was thinking
blasting is overrated :p I just toss it into a drum with lil' stone pellets in it
there's not much to them
48 x48 x 96
I picked up a vibratory tumbler
then curse myself for doing so when the pellets get stuck inside the work piece
part of the anodizing dream
blasting is important for powder, it's all about the "tooth"
now, who'll help me clean my room? o.0
what do you use to blast?
lil' electronic componements laying about,.. everywhere
you just need some locline in there
I have a dream of an XY gantry in my office
mounted to the ceiling
nerdcore central vac system
so 2 rails down the long walls
one rail between
controlled by a PC
I'd have a robot arm on there
it would clean up for me
your chair on the gantry
that would be so sweet
gfixler: done that, controlled by hand,.. forgot it needed brakes,.. so we ended up opening the rest of the wall up too and adding a lil' shed
flying around the shop like the dude in road warrior!
actually, I've wanted also to put a control rig on there for my little point and shoot camera
make things like music videos with flying camera moves and multiple me's in the shots
by shooting several times along the same flight paths
have you seen the flying ghost controlled by emc?
three wires, weird kinematics
I thought I could teach a robot arm where certain things went
then just hand the bot things
maybe some kind of sensor that tells what it's been given
and it goes and puts it on the right shelf for me
i think they use something like that for superbowl cameras
then I could also eventually be like "Roboarm... scalpel."
*hands me scalpel*
rfid tags on everthing
maybe that's how that flying cam stays right over the action
robot 'beer me'
"Robot, attack intruder!"
unless if the robot can open the beer too, ....
that guy didn't even know who he was messing with
but then it might get too smart and drink it on it's own
it could open the beer by crushing it
you'd have to be polite
it could use the scalpel
or it would pour it on you, or your computer
okay, no sentience
i hate petulat robots
I'm glad to talk with people who do this kind of stuff
wanna know the best part about my lil' plans for my machine? after I build it, i'll use it to rebuild itself,.. with more accurate parts, and re-do the PCB so all 3 controllers are on the same board :p
literally no one in this area that I know or have met does
they have no idea what I'm talking about all the time
right on, frag
it 'l be like stargate's replicators
that was my dream, too
but you're actually going to do it
eventually you'll have a machine that builds up by assembling atoms
I don't trust those replicators
re-use the dust, put that in another machine it created that compresses that down to carbide bits
I'm all about reuse these days
I want food
[09:36:36] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157606823191328/
not to mention that that looks good too
enjoy the food!
snot ready yet :p
(the boards aren't ready yet,.. waiting for the high speed diodes to arrive)
do NOT bring that thing on an airplane
or to Boston
under the fans
are those knobs?
like volume knobs
they look like little tuning knobs under the fans
on top of the chips
[09:42:42] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vczZj http://omploader.org/vcnV0
maybe that's clearer
Firefox was shrinking them
I've tried many times since high school back in the early 90s to understand electronics
like I said, i plan on replacing the 3 seperate ones by one bigger one
I just never get it
or rather, I always get it, but wrong
"Oh, I get it, so this... nope. Not that."
trial & error ftw.
you would think so
but it seems no matter how many ways I try to think through it, I'm always wrong
I've even somehow ended up trying the only 2 possibilities, and both have been wrong
I don't know how
my buddy is an electronic whiz, he makes me breakout boards and I cnced his mini mill so he could cut pcbs
my friends are all artists
dan_the_welder: do that for me too :p
I'm the techiest of the lot
all my friends are kindof.. useless,.. all they can do right is soccer
you have to figure out to machine parts through corner kicks!
how old are you frag?
dan_the_welder: I'm 18.
2nd year in uni :D
I'm 18 in my mind
are you crazy?
thats where it counts.
I am too!
most of my friends are in their 20s
I turned 18 my second day at college
I need to find some cheap argon bottles :(
frag - you in Europe?
nice, Los Angeles for me
turning 19 next week
to buy? i have to lease them
dan_the_welder: I want to buy one, leasing costs too much for the times i use it
fragalot: all downhill from there
60bux a year
dan_the_welder: more expensive here,.. way more expensive
you can buy tiny ones but I need the big ones.
I only need a little one
a few years ago, my lease bill was like 800 dollars.
the welding station I have is an inverter,.. I like to keep it portable
it's a TIG / SMAW combo
the guy at the shop had been neglecting to check in my returns and the company thought I had 14 of them
it was funny, he soon retired
oh, I also have a homemade welding station
cool, how homemade?
it's essentially just a bigass coil >.>
dan_the_welder: very homemade.
in that 36sq. ft. spot?
gfixler: hehe, garage
1 or 2 car?
nfc how big the garage is, but you can easilly put bikes on either sides, and 3 cars infront of eachother
awesome, I made one from a buck boost transformer once
everyone has more workshop than me
I gotta get out of this town
dan_the_welder: the one i'm talking about was here when we bought the house
except that I'm really making that difficult on myself
free free free
dan_the_welder: everything on it is self made, even the coils
bbl, food ready
thats really cool
what did you use for the core?
dan - ever had to move all of that stuff?
frag, do you have pictures of your tiny shop/room?
ohh yes, it sucked
I'm going to run into that in a few years
12 people many loads, but I had less stuff then
I own my building now
you really have the stuff
12 friends, or paid movers?
so I get big heavy stuff now, I never want to move again
I don't want to move already
too much heavy stuff
and it's a fraction of what you have
[09:54:53] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157605513555152/
I looked at your flicker for a bit, you like taking pictures!
[09:55:36] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157605519595533/
that I do
what's on Flickr is a small fraction of all that I have locally
8,331 on Flickr
those incras are cool
mmm box joints
i was a wood guy for a while
like metal better?
for me, wood's just easier
lighter, cheaper, quieter and cooler to work with
I like the feel
it's cleaner, too
dry dust instead of oil and black soot
though I still would like to be able to work in metal
it's stronger, and consistent
there's an art with wood - having to select the right pieces, watching out for knots and such
matching grains and colors
it's kinda fun, but also kind of a pain sometimes
yeah, i still use wood for furniture , for the human interface part of things, but metal is my thing, I like the permanence.
I really like fancy plywood, baltic birch
never had any, though
just crappy Home Depot stuff
Rockler has beautiful hardwoods
wenge, bubinga, cocobolo, rosewood, tulipwood, ebony, etc
gorgeous, but pricey
I can get an 8' pine 1x8 for about $7-$8 at Home Depot
birch might be around $15
after I first got my router running I was using this luan and making really weird and cool stuff, but it was terrible wood
oak around $20 or so
the same sized plank of zebrawood at Rockler was $80
the prices of hardwoods really opened my eyes to why people don't use them, or use veneer over cheaper stuff
it had all this internal stress it would warp once you cut it and it would burn router bits and then catch fire
hardwood is awesome
I hate lauan
I know now
I've never gotten worse splinters from any other kind of wood
it's like it's made of needles
it's really just a sheet covering wood
it has all this silica in it which is why the bits cant take it
tacked to walls under siding and such
it's devil wood
it's the wood I would give to my enemy
yup, I used it for the cieling in my apartment and put poly on it and it looks nice there, 10 feet away
final count - 26,182
once I get my router running I am going to get some nice ply and try to make some new stuff
that's the number of jpgs in my cam folder
some may not be actual photos - mods of others - but that's a very near estimate
then I have 13 2" photo albums from school
and about 3 brown bags of photos
I like to document :)
i need some to follow me around with a camera, i make all this stuff but never document it.
my new beast will help me with metal
18" wood/metal band saw
I think the documentation bug is a rare one
I'm sort of an alien that way
I have the camera and tripod in the garage with me
and will stop at key points to set up and take a shot, then get back to work
without the internet full of documentors i would be fucked
it's been an incredible learning resource
sci fi come true
I had terrible troubles with stains recently on a project
so I hit up YouTube
and watched a bunch of staining masters talk me through their processes
learned so much
it really feels like the Matrix
"Tank, I need a wood staining program!"
the things I have learned from youtube is like a whole college degree
and MIT and some others have now started putting up their video lectures
schools are kind of becoming obsolete
except as training grounds for office workers
one of my employees told me about that, not videos but MIT courses on line
i downloaded the python one
I tried to watch a couple
way above me
hm, Im going to look at physics.
it's way above me but it's better to be prepared
wait, prepared for what?
I want to be, too, if it's something important
catch some loose haydrons if they come your way, sell them on ebay
I went to art school for a computer animation degree, and often feel like it was the slowest learning I've had
I can learn a ton from the net in less time
the best thing that did for me was introduce me to connections
it's so much more focused
my highest paying job I got because the guy in the room next to me in the dorm told them I was good
i need to know this right now
hadn't heard from him in several years, but he found me online
and got me a job
did you buy him a 6pack?
at 2x what I had been making
I bought him a whole dinner
I think a movie, too
something 3D animated
because that's what we do
dude, like a whole date!!!
during which time he told me all about the troubles with his girlfriend
so it was like dinner, movie, and therapy
I guess you saw baowolf
no, it was before that
i mean in general
oh, actually no
I'm kind of burned out on 3D :)
all 3d motion capture
"Let's go see the new anima" "NO"
kinda neat, but kinda whatever
school was all about analyzing the hell out of animations
and the thesis
that was a year of making a single 30-second animation
which was continually picked apart by many instructors
and fellow students
and work is often about critiquing anims
studying animations, figuring out how to add more oomph to a movement
it makes you really hypercritical
so you go see an animated film
and it just annoys you the whole time
that character had terrible weight, this one had incorrect follow-through, everyone's too bouncy, or too floaty
can't just go enjoy it
have to break it all apart
yeah, i deconstruct everything anyway so CG pisses me off most of the time
I really loved the Incredibles
but it was the humor that got me
did not see it
not so much the 3D
I saw the panda movie and I like it
yeah, that one fell past the line
I don't think I've seen any 3D stuff since Narnia
and that only because a friend worked on it
and she paid for my ticket to see it at the El Cap in Hollywood
a bunch of school folks were on that one, so they were all there
it was more a party/reunion than a movie
lots of my classmates are in LA now
in movies or games
it's one of the few centers where graduates pooled
bunch in Texas, too
at game companies
yeah I bet, the film school at FSU is pretty good so my frieds keep moving out there
I'm between worlds
a lot of my friends are really into one thing
like they work at a film company, and do that all the time
they spend two years at the coffee shop writing scripts and then they go to la
I work in games, but spend almost all of my free time in my shops, building
they go online to be in the film/game world
I go on to learn about anodizing, or machining, or woodshop stuff
it's like work is a different life
the cool part is that I end up somehow getting into cool things
though I always feel like an imposter
at the cafe, they know i make robots, but they really have no idea what i do
do you know any other machinists locally?
even the bikes, they are all cool fixed gear ids and I make recumbents which they don't understand
making is rare
most people don't
I have a core of friends who make stuff, not nessicarily machinists and we can really talk to each other about techincal things
there aren't many places that have a large number of people with their own shops and big equipment
[10:19:44] <dan_the_welder> http://www.coepercussion.com
this is a good friend of mine, some fancy woodwork for ya
I've wanted to make a marimba
I have this art/furniture piece that would play one
been in my ideas file for years
I want it to work through midi, so I can play it through my Yamaha, or so I can send it songs to play
but all of that = lots of research and hard work
this guy moved into the shop next to me, i go say hi, what are you up to?
he is making marimbas, i am like wow really?
so he shows me his first one, which he decided to make becasue he could not afford one.
ooh, marimba on rolling 80/20 assembly :)
all from home depot, oak flooring for the keys, pvc resonators, zinc plated corner brackets to hold the stings up. and on and on.
that is awesome
he tuned the bars with a drum sander on a piece of shit black and decker drill
and now look at that stuff, it's so beautiful, and he sends them all over the world
10 years ago
that was my first question
how long between the first and international success
he was selling them pretty much immediately
out of PVC and oak flooring?
they were not home depot specials but they improved rapidly
I'm curious how the first one sounded
no that was his first one
that sounds like my kind of project
got to start somewhere!!!!!
so much hand work goes into each one of those
mostly in tuning
he works like a dog
it shames me
computers ruined me there
I expect things to happen while I'm reclining
made learning to work in the shop again really hard
one day it dawned on me
I built a split-level deck around an above-ground pool in high school
wait, i designed the whole thing on the PC and in my head, now I have to actually make it?
but I'd be all stressed out of over cutting out 2 small pieces of plywood to screw into one top piece to elevate my PC over the desk leg
I'd cut the sides
then go have a lie-down
maybe in a week cut out the top and finish up the project
true, do some and then thinks for a bit
I'm making a wood shed now
I'm really hauling on it
the great part is that I designed it all in 3D first
this machine I am building now is a scary one.
in one day
and put each 'piece' in a layer
later I made plans out of that
and now I'm working to do a piece a day
or every 2 days
and it's been working for about 5 of the 14 pieces so far
which one are you building now?
[10:30:35] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/collections/72157607634322637/
Part 1 is the 3D mockup
I am making a 5 axis gantry style welding robot
I have 2 more parts ready to upload and add to the documentation here
you are prefabing it?
as in making each piece, and then assembling those?
in the garage then one big assembly day?
before they go together I'm going to be treating them all
not sure which treatments, or their order yet
e.g. Thompson's water seal
caulking everything to keep out bugs
I got some wood preservative to spray on, but I'm not sure I want to now
it's really for direct soil contact
nothing here will touch dirt
and it might conflict with later treatments
and the paint
it's dry there though
but also in February it pours like crazy
almost FL level storms
just for a few weeks, but that's enough
shit just decays here becasue it's so .......moist
same back home in NJ for my parents
we have a stream running through the property
lots of squishy mosses
really mild for the last decade, though
whee global warming
as a kid I could go out on the stream when it would freeze over
doesn't do that anymore
I usually don't need a coat in winter there now
what are you gonna do though?
I'm not outside long enough
I'm going to build things and ignore the problem
ok, so if 10000 people are on cnc zone and 10000 people are on makezine, and etsy and instructables, I can't help but think that this whole underground scene of people aching to get away from the bland sameness of the mass market, is going to explode into a new totally awesome economy
it started to snow here today
where are you anon?
where's that, anon?
what's the weather like throughout the year there?
fairly warm summers and damn cold winters
i miss winter, you get things done
and autumn, and a spring..
very discinctive seasons
it's almost always the same in LA
I like it alot
* anonimasu nods
in fact, almost maddening
I grew up with seasons
I have no idea what month it is ever
Dan - I agree about the maker note
it's so hot in florida in the summer that you get stupid, you know you are stupid but you can't do anything about it untill it gets a few 10's of degrees cooler
I think it's going to be a big fad for awhile
growing up I had a dream of having a store kind of like Rockler mixed with an electronics store, and a hobby shop
yeah, cool right? this underground sea change is happening and it's what makes me optimistic about life
just all tools, materials, parts, and stock
like 10 shops big
anything you want to make, it has the best tools there for it
I should just do that with my shop:)
if you're interested in a big belt sander, you can come touch 10 varieties
that's a big annoyance for me right now
welcome back, fragalot
you need a big belt sander>
yes, but moreover
I'm frustrated by having so few places to see anything
I have to try to find out about things online
usually with the same one tiny pic everywhere
and not enough detail in the descriptions
need to study -_-
hey frag, wanted to say I like your control box, it looks tight,
so eventually I just have to order something and hope
[10:41:54] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vbGhp http://omploader.org/vcXZq http://omploader.org/vbXc1
that would be my bedroom/electronics workshop
that's fancier than I expected
k, "trip" delayed again
gfixler: thx ;)
custom desk, bed,..
rest is just ikea :p
I like the cabinets
I'm all about cabinets recently
me too :D
my office machine shop, and garage workshop need them in the worst way
a place for everything and everything all over the place
i love ikea
but I've tasted the other side
I have a few things that are sorted beautifully
we had one in halifax where I grew up
and I crave that everywhere else
they were common in my other locations
but west LA doesn't have any
they're really against big shops here
almost every place is a small shop
don't you have a grizzly near you?
little cafes, tiny restaurants, juice bars
man, that would be cool
i don't know it just seems like there should be one there
the 3 big shops I have are Staples, Home Depot, and Best Buy
they managed to sneak in
what bugs me is that there are somewhere on the order of 56 thousand coffee shops here
can't some of those be turned into say, a fancy wood store?
Tallahasse is less than 200,000 people and we have 5 starbucks, it sucks
would it hurt people so much to go 3 stores farther for the next coffee shop?
I went to Maker Faire with a friend
he had to find a Starbucks in the morning
we drove past - I counted - 9 coffee shops
Peets, Coffee Bean, and many more
there are at least three independent cafes though, so we underdogs are doing ok.
"NO, keep going, there must be one around here."
oh my god
(we found it)
I got a tasteless cookie
make in a factory in the midwest
I love Cherry Coke Zero, but if we're late for Maker Faire, I can go with a Diet Coke, or even (gasp!) water
trucked in , full of preservatives
my parents finally tried it, and hated it
I live on Coke Zero
I wish I could get a tap run to my house and office
ok, I am going to go take a picture or two of my shop for you guys
fragalot: are you bilingual?
dan - this is fun looking through the marimbas
he uses all the cool woods I keep seeing
like padouk and rosewood
incidentally, that's the 4th spelling of padouk I've seen
others: paduak, padauk, paduk
hi I'm back, crashed my pc, hot plugging a floppy drive into it.
my camera is an old sony mavica, it uses floppies
[11:08:32] <dan_the_welder> http://i36.tinypic.com/wkr1c7.jpg
a floppy cam?
[11:09:45] <dan_the_welder> http://i37.tinypic.com/6y3b5s.jpg
is that a sheer?
press brake shear rooll
oh man, I want
now a cnc backgage press brake
I almost broke down and bought some mini versions of those
man, you got hydraulics on that thing
totally worth it.
air not hydraulics
what does the CNC do?
I was just looking at this: http://www.coepercussion.com/metalframe1.jpg
back gage ad well as bend ange
and thinking "I could make that if only I had a shear, press break, welder, and powder coating setup
I welded that frame for matt
how'd you coat it?
if you look at the top left corner of the brake pic you can see the encoder
that controls the bend angle
I see a laptop
down below that look for the belt
did that take a lot of dialing in?
is it linear, or did you have to tweak the curve?
in other words if you get 10 and 90, is 50 halfway between those, or is it off a little one way or another?
test bend, record the number and put it in the gcode
so you build up a table, kinda
i never got that slick
I'm imagining it's not a perfectly straight line
what are the pieces that push down called?
it needs some love, yeah fingers
and the part they push into?
the metal frame marimiba is powercoated
oh wait, I think I see it now
I noticed the edge of it
was thinking the finger dropped behind that
so do you put the finger in the top, and then screw all of those socket head screws in to clamp it in place?
do you have other fingers for things like bending only parts of things?
different widths and such
if you are doing a small thing you can have different positions along the mchine so you can do different angles
yeah, there are a million types of fingers, but for real machines, not harbor freight junkers
your lathe is all tilted
Harbor Freight is where I was looking
I've stopped looking there
did you machine that bed?
their stuff is shit, i speak from experience, but if it's all you can afford.......
I almost bought several things from there
the lathe bed?
the tilted bit
I was smart and researched Harbor Freight for each purchase
and ultimately never bought anything there :)
you have spindle control, too
yeah I make those aluminum bits to hold the lathe on an angle
only off and on
it looks like you have a stepper going to it
at the top
not speed, but there is an index pulse for threading
so it can auto thread for you
yeah, welll. I had this plan,
for the Sherline I'd have to invent something, or buy their crank/gear setup
switch off the motor, connect the stepper and have A axis control, but I never impimented it,
I would need an 8 pole double throw relay
is that a rotary collet holder I see?
whoa, I just realized that's a joystick
I thought it was some metal support
yeah, I am thinking, remove the carrige, put some linear slides on it, and make it a dedicated two axis lathe then work on the 4 axis monter at my liesure
yes collet holder
[11:22:38] <dan_the_welder> http://i38.tinypic.com/2q1bax0.jpg
coller holder for this
another harbor freight monster
you have some big toys
there's no end of tools
my buddy the electronic guy bought the brake and mill, when he had some cash but did not really know what to do with them, hence the colaboration we have going on.
I keep buying tools, but there are always so many more
the marimba guy?
do you work with the marimba guy, or was that thing you welded one-off, or favor?
make me breakout boards and i converted a mini mill for him for routing PCBs
I work with the marimba guy regularly
paint stuff, weld stuff
you have a powder coater, you said
I'll be his trade show load in and set up grunt at the end of the month, fun free trip to Austin, TX.
yeah powder coat
that's one of the places where I know some people in games
do you have any kind of booth, or do you just let the powder fall?
i made a room, it falls on the floor in there
powder recycling is complicated
enough room to make a room :)
I don't have enough room to lay down a sheet of plywood
ahhh but soon you will have a shed!
it's pretty tiny, but yeah
[11:28:15] <dan_the_welder> http://i36.tinypic.com/22nfic.jpg
that thing will be able to hold about 10 4'x8' sheets
to be excited about a shed?
but I have nowhere to use them
make another shed
thinking about it
a yard full of sheads
linked with tunnels
LA is weird
the neighbor's house is right over the fence
tubes of really big loc-line
it's a 6' fence, but her windows are higher
so she can look down into my yard
I feel self-conscious walking to the garage
or juggling in the back yard
she already thinks you are a terrorist
so go for it
the garage is staggered behind the house
so you can drive down a very narrow driveway of dirt into it
though it's a squeeze even for my hatchback
which is another reason sheets of plywood are tough for me :)
at the front of the house is a gate that blocks off that area in front of the garage
ugh, I have a loading dock....don't hate
it's like the only truly private place outside
I REALLY want to build the garage into that area
make a double-long garage
that would help me tremendously
crafty, a shotgun garage
but it's a rental
I've thought about building something I could just push up against the front
and then open the door into it
it wouldn't be permanent
but I'd run electric and lighting into it
and seal it up against bugs and weather
that's an even bigger task than this tiny shed, though
too bad the market is fucked you need a house with a double garage.
but when I think about that
I think about having to move this stuff
just got a 7' tall 18" band saw
have a 320lbs circular saw table
that giant router table
my two work tables are 200lbs each
heh heh heh, so should I go take a picture of my 8000 pound milling machine?
probably next time
i already know the answer
just finishing up
need to get to bed
don't you sleep?
I am going to go get more coffee
i keep really weird hours
I need to get up reasonably early so I don't waste another Saturday sleeping
AANd i'm back again
gfixler: dutch, english, french, german.
you Europeans and your multilingualness
over here in America we speak only English, and usually not all that well
hahaha soo true
we like to say nookular
here's a question I never get to ask anyone here
"we" i think the eletists pronounce it correctly
gfixler: I prefer english, tbh
frag: do you feel the languages allow you to express yourself differently?
even if we can't spell eletist
they're all the same for me
i hate french
it's all crazy
I've had people read things in French to me
I learned french in school,
and it doesn't seem to match up at all
I really wanted to learn Spanish in high school
gfixler: that's basically it,.. it doesn't.
wherever I've lived it's the predominant secondary language
canadian, suppoded to be bilingual
wanna learn spanish? get a maid.
Puerto Ricans in NJ, and Mexicans in LA
I know tiny bits
I had 2 years in high school
oh damn, they pick tomatoes here
but 5 teachers in that time
each started over
and taught terribly
3 of the people I work with are Mexican
only two speak Spanish, though
and only one of those has an accent
all we have here are people from marocco, turks,..
will they paint the virgin on the hood of your hatchback?
if I asked nicely, probably
Dan, what's that last thing you sent?
* fragalot pokes a hole in the american dream
the 80/20 stuff
not trying to be a totasl racist dick but sometimes i just lose it.
when you said 10 sheets of lumber, did you mean stacked, or is that the size of a house?
that is going to be a 5 axis gantry robot TIG welder
dan_the_welder: got a nice story on that "racist" thing
or I am going to die trying
let er rip
dan_the_welder: friend of my dads was sitting in the train, when a group of turkish teens started harrassing her, when she asked them to leave her alone, they called her a racist,.. but when she mentioned her uncle was from turkey, they started apologising like mad.... now... who's the racist?
trying to imagine that
dan_the_welder: now THAT would be awesome,.. Hope you can pull it off!
also, wtf do you guys get the money to afford 80/20 >.>
i know, it's so complicated, but once I got the idea I was ... I just had to do it.
fragalot: I don't afford it :)
does EMC allow a 5th axis?
gfixler: EMC should be able to do 9
my Sherline driver box only has 4 outs
it's cheaper by about 50% if you get it from ebay, but i have a buisness
I guess they show up if you add them in the confs?
dan_the_welder: I'm listening.... :p
dan_the_welder: me too
and if I don't figure out a way to make things faster and cheaper, I maight as well get a job.
gfixler: no idea, I only read that on the "about" page :p
fragalot: is all of Sweden in one time zone?
gfixler: what do I know o.0
I'm from belgium
[11:43:10] <dan_the_welder> http://i38.tinypic.com/wsusug.jpg
school in Sweden?
gfixler: where did you get the "sweden" part from? o.0
fragalot: what day and time is it there now?
oooh, I know
I think it's sunday,.. 13:44
anonimasu is in Sweden
I mixed you up
you're in the same time zone?
dan_the_welder: I can understand if you make a 5 axis MIG welder, but.. TIG.. damn boy :p
what are the odds?
gfixler: very high?
fragalot: no idea - bad at statistics
well, I do all most all tig welding
sweden, belgium, germany, france, spain, portugal, swiss,. .................. and others i forgot are all in the same timezone
the weird part is just a wire feeder
dan_the_welder: Yeah, but doing it automated just sounds,.... o.O
that's a lot in one place
but thats just mig welder parts hooked up to another stepper
that's far ahead
dan_the_welder: for MIG it's "easy" to make a 5axis welder,.. the TIG sounds... challenging.
gfixler: saturday, lol
it's still Tuesday over here
well, the thing is that TIG is slow, so the control is not to insane...yeah it's a lot of work.
wait, I'm still subtracting 12 from your crazy time notation to figure out what time that is
so that's 9 hours ahead of LA?
dan_the_welder: my TIG installation here would probably be /VERY/ hard,.. its' a scratch start,.. no HV comes into play :(
that doesn't seem like enough
yeah I have HF
how do you aim a comment to someone specifi in IRC
I've just been typing fragalot:
me too, hence the concatenation
dan_the_welder: I only have an ERGUS inverter, 5-160ADC, capable of working on major power fluctuations without giving a bad weld
I just hit dan<TAB>
that works here, too
should work everywhere
wait, what's fenn?
oh, another user
it's just like Linux
if you want something to go to one person only, use /msg
that shits crazy
dan_the_welder: the OS EMC runs on.
I'm going to take it a step further
just look at the name and type
gfixler: better not wear glasses.
fragalot: not yet, at least
but the eyes are getting older
that was an interesting one for me
i've been wearing glasses since i was,.. I dunno,.. 5 ?
eye tracking for your overhead gantry personal organization robot?
bluriness of vision is not the same as blurring stuff with a camera
or in Photoshop (or Gimp)
I had perfect vision all my life
gfixler: yeah, it's odd to explain it to somebody, isn't it
"gary, you don't talk to me anymore"
and assumed that if it got worse, it would become like Filter->Blur
but it still feels sharp as can be
gfixler: you don't really notice it without beeing told, or wondering about it
I just can't read some things as easily
I don't feel like anything's blurry, or out of focus
it feels the same
friend of mine had to wear glasses,.. badly, for quite some time
he just never realized it
I just can't read as far down the eye chart
ok, this is how crazy CNC has made me.
it's like it's all sharp, but tinier, or something
always sat in the front row of the classroom, thinking everybody behind him just didn't care enough to be able to read the board..
[11:53:17] <dan_the_welder> http://i38.tinypic.com/wsusug.jpg
dan_the_welder: are you going to suggest CNC lasik?
dan_the_welder: ye yeh, seen it, got jealous, 'nuf said
do you think there is a market?
I was wondering about milling my lenses back to perfection
I don't know, but I definitely think there is for my other idea
fragalot, I made that in august, I have never used it.
milling those Naruto symbols on kids foreheads
friend of mine made 4 autonomous welding bots,... mechanically steered, and not computer tho
kind of like an anime version of tribal scarring
eg. if it got to the edge, that machine was for a square box,.. so it just went arround the corner
fragalot: no PC?
on others it made a barrel, so it just rotated that far;... :p
thats really cool
if it wanted to make a cylinder, it rolled a slab of steel, till it found the edge, then followed that edge, welding it up as it went
fragalot: that's crazy talk
fragalot were they art projects or did they make stuff?
made from scrap parts, like .. the transmission came out of a honda bike
dan_the_welder: he used them to make storage tanks
for a living
dan_the_welder: what is that last pic of?
he sold the factory ~ a month ago tho
that is a plasma tube notcher
he also had a nice 5 meter long guillotine scissor bench thingy he made
friggin slow machine, but amazingly powerfull
what are plastma tube notchers?
I'm afraid of guillotine machines
gfixler: it's "slow",.. as in,.. it probably moves faster than your sherline if you'd want to cut trough steel.
I got to the math part, calculating the gcode and realized I nned a robot welder
I cut the base of my left index finger as a kid
fell off a bike onto glass
cut two tendons and a nerve in half
dan_the_welder: will that robot be able to pick parts up on its own too? :p
4 hour surgery, months of therapy, scar tissue, can't move it all the way
gfixler round tube meet at a scallop shape, called a tube miter or a fish mouth.
for about 2 years after that I constantly had this daydream/nightmare of a dwarf swinging a battle axe at my face, and me blocking it with my hands
and catching the axe right in that spot, reopening the wound
fragalot no, put everything in a jig and then press go.
no idea why, but I couldn't shake that stupid image popping up every now and then
dan_the_welder: on ebay, WTF do you look for? all i can find is diet books on "80/20" :p
and then I'd be very worried about the old injury for awhile, hiding it in my pocket
or holding it in my other hand to guard it
that was in late grade school
hang on, i'll get you the link
gfixler: I'm afraid of beeing near a lathe when it's doing 2000+ RPM with a huge 4-claw chuck
fragalot: lol on the diet books
had one of those nibble part of my ear off when it was spinning at roughly 2000RPM and broke loose
[12:00:04] <dan_the_welder> http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale
I always wear eye protection at every tool
dan_the_welder: Sweet. thanks
i wear glasses
even my mini mill working in plastic
gfixler: eye protection wouldn't really help.
I think that chuck weighed nearly 25kg
it just went *CRACK* *BANG* trough the 7mm thick plexi of the machine, over my shoulder, and continued it's path of descruction trough the schools workshop
knocked somebody over before it stopped
that does it
and made me nearly crap myself
1" thick Lexan goggles
making them next
well, atleast the machines failsafe trigger worked.
after the chuck was gone.µ
I don't have one of those
if my machine goes nuts, I'm going to have to battle it by hand
gfixler: it was a button that made you close the plexi before you could start the machine,
one machine and one man enter, one machine or man leaves
if I had decided to duck for the emergency switch, .. well,.. I wouldn't have a face anymore.
fragalot: cool - I've made a little controller for mine out of a programmable keypad
all I did was make sure i got the hell out of there when i saw it go crazy :=p
gfixler: lol, sweet.
anyways,.. *goes look for cheap 80/20)
[12:03:44] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157604601562020/
this thing is annoying, though
has to be programmed on Windows
so I had to bring it in to work to program the sequences, hoping I got them right
then bring it home and try it all out
really no linux driver for it?
had one thing swapped
and all closed source
does it send an event if you hit a button?
it's just a playback
'cos you could remap those on EMC aswell
it sends whatever you typed
I've just put the usual EMC keys into it
the big center button at the bottom is my "E-STOP"
holly crap dan_the_welderthat's cheap
not exactly big and accessible
and not really E-STOP quality
it's just Esc
dan_the_welder: nvm, i read it wrong :p more expensive than I thought, yet... less :p
with shipping added to that,.............
fragalot you have to keep an eye out for the deals.
dan_the_welder: shipping from the US to here is insane.
I got a sun fire V60x for free from a buddy there in the US and by the time it got here, I ended up paying 650 euro.
160 for shipping, the rest went to the f*cking customs department
gfixler: doesn't the controller have a switch for that?
gfixler: so you can put a nice big, badass mushroom punch switch on
fragalot I know, europeans want to buy my bikes, but then UPS wants 1000$ to ship it and there goes your savings on our weak ass dollar.
dan_the_welder: that's just UPS tho
fragalot: nope! no switch, just a box
theres another 21% going to customs of the /ORIGINAL VALUE OF YOUR PIECE/
welll, UPS has bought two other companies that used to do air freight
gfixler: put a motion sensor in,.. if it moves, switch the machine off :p
I read that it's cheaper for someone in London to fly to NYC, buy Adobe Creative Suite (when it launches in a month), stay overnight in a hotel there, then fly home, than it would be to buy it in London
They are tring to get the monopoly thing going on
gfixler that's fucked
we're becoming the place to go for cheap stuff
oh, and customs keep 10 euro for initial administration, 25 for further administration, 75 for investigation and processing, then 21% taxes, and because it took them 3 months nearly 50 euro on rent for storage there.
a little bit of role reversal
UPS is awesome and reasonable for domestic, but they want your nuts for overseas
taxes in Europe seem insane
as do the petrol prices
fragalot what is a VX60?
gfixler: You have no idea.
fragalot: you guys are too nice - form a revolt!
the USA is the third world with cheap food and cable TV
it's /ALL/ cable TV here.
except we pased that stage
it's now digital
ef digital and trusted computing and all that shit
i am going all bit torrent and linux
dan_the_welder: it's just TV,.. it works.., but yes, you need a key.
obviously, you can still download movies
dan_the_welder: I have this thingy, it's like an ATM card
I just stuff it into the box to identify me as a client that's paid for this and that channel
without it nothing works,.. (I don't pay anything tho, only get like 500 free channels)
fragalot: check this thread on cnczone, lots of stories like your flying chuck:-) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1605&highlight=horror
dan_the_welder: do i /HAVE/ to :p
ah cool, I don't have cable
gfixler: that includes some radio stations..
it's some crazy shit though
fragalot: free TV here means a couple of crappy things sent through the airwaves
heh, 2nd post
"serious wood working injuries" .. guess what
that chuck was on a metal working lathe,.. but i was doing some wood work because i had nothing else to do
the (custom made) bit grabbed the wood, and ripped the chuck out in the process (SOMEHOWo.0)
gfixler: plenty of choises and wire range of varieties here.
one of my frineds owns a used music /dvd store he lets me borrow DVDs. like free rental
I fix stuff for him, he also owns the local music venue, it's pretty sweet.
it's an awesome underground economy we have going on
that "sawstop" video on there is pretty damn impressive
but it's a one-shot thing
yeah crazy right, except the cartriges are ballistic and cost a 100 bucks, well, it would suck to lose a finger.........I do have 10
and I know at leat two woodworker with half a thumb
don't scare me like that
I know somebody that cut his middle finger off with a laser
I'm already terrified of my saw :)
fragalot thats a pretty fancy server, what do you do with it?
anonimasu: even if it's a one-shot thing
fragalot: that's a really manly way to lose a finger, honestly
ahhhhh a laser? thats a nightmare
i'd much rather pay $100 than loose a finger
my friend works at a shop with a waterjet, and i KNOW how powerfull they are, i have seen it cut 1" steel, but something in my mind just thinks....it's only water.
dan_the_welder: lol, yeah
it's only 60.000PSI tho
i hear they cut cake with them too.
(I'm belgian, we swap our , and .)
dan_the_welder: lol, yay, cake with granite pellets frosting
fragalot periods and commas?
dan_the_welder: like when you say 60.000 we'd write 60,000
oooh, yeah, I am bilingual in the number punctuation.
fragalot: do you guys have milliards and billiards?
grew up metric, live with imperial.
gfixler: named differently
dan_the_welder: grew up metric? In the USA?
well , my EMC pc booted up right
I thought I had killed it by hotplugging that drive
man so ,
this has been awesome talking to all you guys
we have fairly rare interests
takes the edge off of being the only weirdo in town
only the net can help us find each other :)
I'll have to stop in here more often
I've added the IRC icon to my panel
otherwise I keep forgetting about it
i just realized my chat client did irc tonight
I'm in XChat on Ubuntu
I was using GAIM till I killed that box, I am using Trillain on XP now
I'm on Pidgin for AIM
yeah Pigin is good too
are you dan_the_welder through AIM?
no on AIM I am tetanusgetus
don't do that
over there I'm greatbiggary
get got by tetanus?
feel free to add me anyone
then you'll have one more person you can randomly yell words of excitement to when you get some crazy contraption working
ew, AIM :p
hey, we're old
aww fragalot don't like AIM?
<-- crazy enough?
got a myspace?
I do, but I don't think I've been there in months
holy dick whose flame thrower?
I got it because a friend hired models for some book thing he was doing, and he wanted to show me their portfolios
at a friends place
in fact really nice
is that you killing flying vampires?
we took a high pressure water jet, took all the parts out, re-made them in aluminium, added in some other safety feats,.. :D
gfixler: no, thats my buddy I made it with
thats nuts, you rule
that's good thinking
let him get all toasted
that picture is from the first test run at 45% power
I'm part Frankenstein's Monster
and as such, afraid of fire
could get a thicker, hotter flame if we added water in
look at all that room
that's all I think about anymore
gfixler: his farm land
"need more room"
dan_the_welder: yes, water. think of it like if your frying pot is on fire,..
fragalot: are you up on a railroad crossing sign in that pic?
dan_the_welder: that pot is over 300°C, so if you put water in, it INSTANTLY evaporatives.. explosively
atomizes the fuel
gfixler: that's not a railroad crossing sign,.. was was a protest sign we made ages ago
gfixler: I was standing behind the guy firing it
switching it on & off
yeah tried to put out a bucket of gasoline when I was 15 with a spay hose, same effect
making sure it doesn't fly apart,.. y'know :p
I will never forget that.
25 foot flames
I once, (by accident) made a tea light candle blow up
a tea light?
give or take
dan_the_welder: y'know, those lil' candles
in a small aluminium thingy
yeah, but how?
i tossed a burned out match into the thing,.. for laughs,.. so, after about a minute, there was a bigass flame comming from that
it continued to heat up
till the candle itself ignited
then i tried to blow it out...
thats really weird
not really,.. anything burns if it's hot enough
anything can also explode if it's hot enough
adding O to fire is nice :)
omg it's saturday
GAME NIGHT :D
yeah, and I have 5 pages of math left -_-
[12:40:51] <fragalot> http://www.zuzafun.com/creative-ads
I'm so glad I have no more homework
anonimasu: what kind of math?
fairly easy but tedious.
ok, I put a flourescent bulb cover (thin plastic tube) one end in a vise, put oxy acetelyene in it and lit it through a touch hole in the bottom, when it blew up, it was so loud I could not hear, no damage, but a really loud bang........problem was I was at work
[12:41:54] <fragalot> http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7775/creativeads53ck6.jpg
-- that's a really nice glass
anonimasu: Yeah,.. that's.. real easy :p
dan_the_welder: I had that same thing on my right eat in school, some idiot thought it'd be funny to blow 7 bar into it
couldn't hear for 3 days
now it's fine, except it sometimes goes *pop* atrandom
almost got fired, but they liked me and laughed so hard at what a dumbass thing it was to do, that they let me off with a warning.
dan_the_welder: go over to the nearest high voltage (REAL high voltage) powerlines with a TL tube.
dan_the_welder: put it up over your head, don't touch the wires tho,.. it 'l light up on it's own
just from the EM field
:D found that out by accident
yeah, radio frequency flourescent lighting was supposed to be the next big thing, but I think COmpact flourecents killed it and not it's all about LEDs
fragalot: lol, just today I was finally raking out the mess behind the garage, where is planted a power pole that feeds 3 houses
fragalot: it's damn boring -_-
under all the debris was the shattered remains of a sign that warns of HIGH VOLTAGE on that pole
soory, now it's all about LEDs
anonimasu: no argument
anonimasu: on the boring part
well, I stil gotta do them..
gfixler: oops :p
homework is boreing?
work is work
I am avoiding it.
drinking beer and fucking around on the internet
oh, I am such a bad influence
I don't know if you were here earlier frag, but I was telling gfixler that it's too hot to think here in the summer.
so I was just reading about programming and emc setup stuff, and making crap. but now that it's cooled off, I am going to try and do some programming.
dan_the_welder: we drove the 1200 miles from NJ to FL to drop me off for my first day of school at Ringling in Sarasota, FL
hadn't opened the windows all day the second day
opened the doors inside an oven
stepped out on the blacktop and slid in it
the blacktop had melted into a goo
and I thought "What have I done?"
I was going to have to live there now
[12:53:10] <fragalot> http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7871/dangerousroads6st0.jpg
I wanted to change schools
I bet dan_the_welder designed that during summer.
6 years later, that moment reoccurred to me as I was driving in similar heat
windows up, air off
and not sweating
I had gotten so used to it
thats a trip, we drove to Houston last month to see Judas Priest
yeah, it's all day driving 2 days in a row
no humidity, people were passing out.
fragalot: what's that?
gfixler: a bridge,;. duh
[12:54:21] <fragalot> http://www.zuzafun.com/dangerous-roads
these look like a racing game I enjoy
Would be a nice place to set up a suspended gantry tho
gfixler: ooh,.. I'll go play trackmania :D brb
thats the game
I was thinking Mania Drive
must be a take on it
or vice versa
I saw a video of that and tried to describe it to some one and they thought I was an idiot
I have not really been into games for 25 years, my old roomate gave me one of those joysticks with 5 classic games on it, that plugs right into the TV. I wore it out playing Dig Dug and Bosconian.
Dig Dug gets high playtimes in our game room at work
we have a MAME cabinet
I want a mame console machine. I want to play Asteroids and Tempest and Tron and Missle Command, with real joystics and spinners and trackballs.
right, that;s the shit
nevermind an Xbox
I invented a MAME cabinet idea years back
imagine the panel with the controls can lift out
and inside the walls under where it had been are contacts
like spring metal fingers
all of the cabling for the board is attached underneath
clean and neat
* anonimasu wants a neogeo
when you push it in, all of the fingers contact
you could make lots of boards for it, and have them on a skateboard rack next to the machine
just pull out the Tron one, push it in, and fire up the game
I also thought it would be fun if it had some coding in it to tell the machine so it could narrow the list down to the games best suited to that controller
right, check this, four sided, Rotates. Trackball, spinner, joysticks, keyboard
I've seen a 3 and 6 sided rotational setup
oh well, great minds think alike
that happens to me all the time
it's cool isn't it?
a lifetime of inventions that someone else invents before I can get around to it
I want a big library of things I've invented
but something like 50 things I've thought up others have done
I have only a few really original ideas left
there was an article in the New Yorker about this ex Microsot dude who invites all his smart friends over and has a patent attorney sit in the corner while they party and brainstorm.
then they get patents, like 3 or four hundred to date
that artice made me furious
exactly cheaters with cash screwing the little guys out of ideas
I can't find that mame cab
with the rotating or the modules
ah, found it
not it, but similar
[13:08:36] <gfixler> http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/old/
[13:08:41] <gfixler> http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/old/images/controlspin.jpg
the other one I loved was the all-modular one: http://www.beersmith.com/mame/panels.htm
just piece together the panel you want, and plug the pieces in through ethernet cables
wow on the ethernet one
*g* finished 3 maps
I'd do rotating, but the concept is cool
now that is one nice arcade
[13:18:04] <dan_the_welder> http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/old/
the end product
the graphics on the control board are amazing
I liek the concept of rotating the monitor instead of just doing it in software or via the settings :p
I saw a guy who was casting his own Tron handles from an original
and selling them on Ebay
they looked great
yeah thats cool tooo, I have never seen taht implimentd before
my friend has been trying to do that rolling monitor thing
having terrible luck
everything is too weak
I have been loooking for a bigish monitor on ebay that does VGA and composite video so I can get rid of my TV
and have a PC/Mame/entertainment center on wheels
with CNC somehow
it should give me haircuts t least
well, I'm going to have to get to bed
haircuts, put stuff away, vacuum
I'm passing out over here
I'll sleep 'til the late afternoon
glad to have met you,
less time cutting up lumber
and you as well fragalot, and anonimasu
hope to see you around again soon
goodnight and good morning!
get some sleep and mess with your neighbors head making a shed at night
im tired :(
:p found the remote sooner than I thought
well I'm going to bed
i had lots of fun, did not fix my emc problem, but whatever
take it easy
wow, skunkworks's post is puzzling
I'm sure it's an oops
it's just a question of how bad an oops ;)
he should trim his quote, he might notice what's in it :-)
looks like sourceforge burped a couple old messages
yeah, I just got a commit from 9/25
oh. there's another one
speaking about oops: http://www.hornoxe.com/wp-content/picdumps/picdump70/tumbs/tmb_hornoxe.com_picdump70_05.jpg
spasticteapot__ is now known as spasticteapot
Hello All :-)
microchip accepted my sample request
I justed fitted an R8 ER25 Collet holder to my mill and I have just put a clock on it. The run out is .03 mm does sound acceptable?
to me,. no
to most others,.. I'd say yes :p
(note: do not go by my assumptions-)
At the cutter I am getting .14 run out ! ?
not really a good sign
No... The R* holder and collets are new (6 months old) never been used. Maybe I am setting it up wrong... never used er collets before.
if the holder is set up right, the rest should align pretty much on it's own, it's just weird that you get .03mm on the holder,.. Was it that far off before with normal tool holders?
if emc was used for a mill and another emc for a puma robot workpiece changer, how might the 2 emc programs talk to each other? ( or should 1 emc try to handle the 2 )
I never tested before as there was no way to measure agains the holder (EC quick change)
Paragon: measure against the tool then :/
I will as soon as I get the tool out of the collet ....
need a bigger hammer?
No, Or Yes ;-) .. Trying to undo the collet but the drawbar bolt is undoing. I don't have another tool to hold the spindle :-(
I hate that part
granted, it's been since highschool that i did that,... as a lil' 14yo,.. working on bigass bridgeport machines,... It was near impossible to do alone, lolm.
Paragon: perhaps bigger hammer isn't the right way.. how about pneumatic ;)
Paragon: that's not good.
(runout) that is
Paragon: you shouldnt really be able to make them not align thats the point of collets
^ thus the question "was it ok before"
as it clamps uniformly around the cutter there should be no way to make it not align unless you've got crap inside..
* anonimasu nods
I hate crap
cocked, lotsa people cock collets. to remove it.. when the drawbar gets loose, can you pull the collet assembly out? may be safer to work OUT of the spindle.
(might be cocked)
sorry for the delay ... just got the cutter out :-)
Paragon, I spend some time cleaning the headstock hole etc before and runout test
if there's a key in the headstock ( and a keyway in the collet holder), then feel for a burr on the male key ( usually destroyed on Bports)
the key keep s the collet from turning while the drawbar is loosened
heh can someone record the sound a bport started up without being in gear, and another with it started up with the drawbar wrench on it? those sounds still scare the pants off me, and they'd be great for audio alerts ;)
how about hte sound of a cranked up 50cc scooter who'd back axle snaps in 2 doing 55km/h ?
* fragalot won't forget that sound either
thers a guy selling those 50cc pocket bikes on s.side of chicago for 99$. i want to strap one, friction mount, (facing rear) on rear tire of my 27" mongoose bicycle, just to see what it does
I've tried what happens if you try that witha 150cc 4stroke, without mounting it properly
doesn't work out
tom1 chicago! is LaSalle motor lodge still a den of iniquity (I stayed there many years ago)
you were in a bad place
I foud out later!
what tipped you off "you wanna stay all night?"
boss over here recommended the place as cheap!
cheap isn't ALWAYS good y'know...
shame on your boss
but heard later about ladies of the night being found dead ubder the bed
always wanted a folding motorcycle, something like this: http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/102/C8525/
fenn: aslong as they only fold when YOU want to ;)
then i could strap it to my back and parachute with it
tomp hopes picture isnt bike folded around tree
cool 'omni-circulated' ;)
? ninja para-military bikey?
day-glo candy ninjas from outer space
i think that bike looks sorta like a gourmet licorice candy
or a gummy snake
[18:49:56] <fenn> http://www.candymachines.com/images/packaged_candy/garv01/C104110.jpg
fenn why did you want the turn feature on the tensegrity spool? outside of edm and punches i dont know much need for that orientation.
usuallt the tool or work spins
no particular reason
most applications where you need C axis would require 360 or more
might be useful for crane stuff
like putting a transmission back on a car
hmm wires get in the way, just use a crane
i saw a picture of one of those concrete buckets on a crane, funnel bottom, a release line for the plug. thought of your design and reprap (big)
I'd say turning 400° would be nicer than 360 as a limit
then again, I have no idea what you're talking about and feel like I constantly troll the channelbecause i have nothing better to do >.>
took me a long time till I went for the machine build :)
archivist_ub: i'm sitting here in my robe 'cos it's laundry "night", and it's 9pm
I don't feel like going to the store to buy a giant slab of MDF.
some fishing reels have 'line counters" not really accurate, but idea may be good enough for the crane reels when working at crane sized scale and inch precision
tom1 what about those cheap laser/sonar distance measuring devices you can buy in the local cheapskate chain
(or just measure the length of the wire itself going down,.. should be fairly accurage.
yeah, theyd be as accuracte ( is that the word ?)
not the crappy spelling, the idea
it's so obvious, you'll shit bricks when you see it.
fragalot: i know MDF is like the bees knees and all that, but you really ought to consider using something better
no sense in building something out of crap materials
at least go for some good hardwood plywood
fenn: yes, but MDF is just plain.. flat
with normal wood that's not always guaranteed... granted, i could sand it down perfectly,...
but then theres the mess with those brown knobs
i'm not a fan of wood at all
wood is for carpentry not machines
* archivist_ub agrees
ally is not much better
just like aluminium is a generally shitty metal for structural stuff
it's just for PCB's,..
it's not like it has to be as structurally sound as it has to be to go munch chrome alloys
once you have a toy, the temptation to do MORE is overwhelming
"I'll just cut some of this chrome vanadium ^_^"
that stuff machines really well btw :p
that's where the 35.000 RPM spindle, and .01"/min speeds come into play
I turned down some tools in chrome vanadium the other week
it cut really nicely
I didnt expect it to turn that nicely
some tools do, some just.. don't
I tried to bore out the hole in the handle of a big wrench once
instead of drilling that hole out,... the drillbits just got smaller
I did try carbide later
went trough, but had a rough time doing so
(drill press btw)
did it go ~
when the drill turned ;)
no,.. it just worn the carbine bits after going almost completely trough
I was >.< this close to just grabbing my TIG welding station and BURNING that hole open
but decided to just take another set of bits,.... those went trough cleanly
it sounds like you used a too flimsy machine :p(sorry)
anonimasu: 3phase 400V drillpress, floor stand
well, from my experience they arent too rigigd..
it's not really flimsy,... it does tend to fall apart at times tho
you just drill a hole, turn arround, hear a loud *BANG* *klink*
and find a nice drillhead on the floor
is anyone else getting old list mails ? dunno if its gmail or sourceforge
today i had 2 that were a day old, for me its rare
I just got a couple 5 days old
in todays mail batch was a note about 'terrible latency'. the reccomendation was to try a pci video >in the 1st slot<. is the 1st pci slot going to make a difference?
this just arrived was sent 29th [Emc-users] demo lathe code?
not unusual for SF to be slow and useless though
Lerman___ is now known as Lerman