#emc | Logs for 2008-10-04

[00:08:31] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0836.JPG
[00:08:56] <archivist_ub> I see no steppers
[00:09:13] <fenn> pff steppers
[00:09:25] <fenn> losing a step would be disastrous
[00:09:37] <archivist_ub> 1 am time to go home
[00:10:08] <fenn> i do need a better model though
[00:33:15] <jmkasunich> the strut in the center of the spool should be longer
[00:33:44] <fenn> yeah
[00:34:03] <jmkasunich> I bet you get better stiffness and control of the motion as the triangles (mount point, wire to bottom of strut, strut, wire from top of strut back to mount point) approach equilateral
[00:34:08] <fenn> i didnt have any longer lego axles
[00:34:19] <jmkasunich> heh
[00:34:49] <jmkasunich> the problem with that arrangement is that it isn't very stiff in torsion around the strut centerline
[00:35:20] <fenn> it isnt very stiff in Z either
[00:35:28] <jmkasunich> thats because the triangles are shallow
[00:35:56] <fenn> i will try coupling two lego axles together
[00:36:04] <jmkasunich> oh, I just realised - do you intentionally have the "wheels" at each end of the strut offset from each other?
[00:36:08] <fenn> yes
[00:36:27] <jmkasunich> that will improve C rigidity, at the expense of coupling Z and C
[00:36:39] <archivist_ub> still playing with logo.../me has a few at home :)
[00:36:42] <fenn> i can detach and rotate the wheel, it's about the same Z rigidity either way
[00:37:28] <jmkasunich> to truly constrain all 6 degrees of freedom _and_ provide a preload for the wires, you need seven
[00:37:45] <jmkasunich> the flying object could be a T shape
[00:38:05] <jmkasunich> two wires to one end if the crosspiece, two to the other end of the crosspiece, and three to the base of the upright
[00:38:43] <jmkasunich> ideally the wires meet at three points, and those points determine the orientation of the object
[00:39:41] <toastydeath> apparently those spherical air bearings i made are selling for 50k each
[00:39:54] <jmkasunich> you should ask for a raise
[00:40:00] <toastydeath> one to zygo, and now a couple to lockheed martin
[00:40:08] <toastydeath> ironically, i did
[00:40:12] <jmkasunich> after you remove all mention of being paid to chat on IRC from the logs ;-)
[00:40:25] <toastydeath> haha, my boss talks to me while i am chatting
[00:40:30] <toastydeath> he doesn't care as long as the machines run.
[00:42:46] <toastydeath> i lost my heart to a starship trooper!
[00:42:51] <toastydeath> flashing lights in hyperspaceeee
[01:14:33] <fenn> * fenn wonders about the typical ratio of horizontal vs vertical forces in an end-milling scenario
[01:15:14] <toastydeath> depends on helix angle
[01:15:17] <fenn> seems like horizontal would dominate because of higher lip area on the flank
[01:15:19] <toastydeath> and lead, if any
[01:15:44] <fenn> and most milling strategies spend more time going sideways than up and down
[01:15:49] <fenn> (i think)
[01:15:59] <toastydeath> that is correct - horizontal dominates for most milling operations.
[01:26:21] <tom1> fenn. found lots of studies on milling forces, this looks informative http://www2.tku.edu.tw/~tkjse/3-1/3-1-2.pdf
[01:28:58] <tom1> and this tech site in brasil ? is a good resource ( no $$$ ! :) http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1678-58782004000100013
[01:29:43] <tom1> yah The Brazilian Society of Mechanical Sciences and Engineering
[01:44:06] <h2i> http://archimedes.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal/ -- anyone tried it? from wikipedia: "the developers hope to create software better suited for architecture "
[01:44:37] <h2i> wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_(CAD)
[01:50:17] <spastic_teapot> Does anyone here know if it's possible to build a three-axis mill for metal?
[01:50:44] <toastydeath> ....yes?
[01:51:03] <toastydeath> most people who build mills wind up cutting lots of aluminum.
[01:51:21] <spastic_teapot> Copper?
[01:51:26] <spastic_teapot> That's a dumb question...
[01:51:34] <spastic_teapot> Copper is even softer.
[01:51:49] <toastydeath> any soft metals are okay on most machines.
[01:52:46] <spastic_teapot> How much would you estimate it would cost?
[01:53:00] <toastydeath> no idea, you'll have to ask one of the guys in here who built from scratch.
[01:53:12] <spastic_teapot> I've done a good bit of soldering and prototyping, so assembling an AVR-based controller wouldn't be the end of the world.
[01:53:22] <spastic_teapot> Speaking of which...is it possible to mill PCBs easily?
[01:53:28] <SWPadnos> it wouldn't really help much though, unfortunately
[01:53:30] <spastic_teapot> I don't really know much about milling....
[01:53:36] <SWPadnos> (tha AVR controller that is)
[01:53:49] <toastydeath> many people mill pcbs, so yes
[01:54:11] <toastydeath> there are programs for it specifically, but again (unfortunately) you'll have to wait until one of those people wakes up.
[01:54:26] <spastic_teapot> I think I need to learn CAD.
[01:54:43] <toastydeath> you can mill most basic parts without cad/cam.
[01:54:45] <SWPadnos> for quick prototyping, it's pretty useful. if you want to make more than 3 or 4 of something, or you want plated holes or solder mask, then the low price proto shops are better
[01:55:01] <spastic_teapot> SWPadnos: That's the idea.
[01:55:45] <SWPadnos> there's a script for Eagle that generates PCB milling G-code, but I have no idea how to use it
[01:55:50] <SWPadnos> (Eagle or the script ;) )
[01:57:02] <toastydeath> lol
[01:58:23] <spastic_teapot> So, has anyone here DIY'd a CNC machine?
[01:58:59] <SWPadnos> I believe so. I'm not one of them though
[02:00:07] <SWPadnos> you may be better off getting some good old iron for not too much money, then doing a retrofit
[02:00:25] <toastydeath> i would agree with that.
[02:00:35] <SWPadnos> ebay, craigslist, or some relatively local industrial surplus place would be good places to start
[02:01:34] <undrill> SWPadnos, I think you just run the script when you are in the CAM screen
[02:01:43] <undrill> or the board editor
[02:01:53] <spastic_teapot> Old iron?
[02:01:53] <SWPadnos> I don't use Eagle at all, so, uh, thanks anyway :)
[02:01:59] <spastic_teapot> A manual milling machine?
[02:02:01] <SWPadnos> like a Bridgeport or something
[02:02:03] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:02:07] <toastydeath> spastic_teapot: old iron is a pre-existing machine
[02:02:11] <spastic_teapot> Got a link to a conversion example?
[02:02:14] <toastydeath> you can use either a broken CNC, or a manual machine
[02:02:25] <SWPadnos> I don't have any offhand, but there are plenty
[02:02:33] <spastic_teapot> "old iron" usually refers to vintage output transformers for tube amps in my neck of the woods.
[02:02:35] <spastic_teapot> :)
[02:02:39] <SWPadnos> a broken CNC is likely better, though the ways may have more wear
[02:02:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:02:58] <toastydeath> yeah, old cnc stuff is highly brand and useage dependant
[02:04:30] <toastydeath> but i'm not sure you'd need a real example of a converted old machine - the process is simple compared to a machine complete from scratch
[02:04:46] <spastic_teapot> I would imagine.
[02:04:47] <toastydeath> it's a milling machine, with the handles yanked off and steppers/servos in their place
[02:06:18] <toastydeath> speaking of project cncs, there was an awesome leblond and an awesome mazak on ebay
[02:06:25] <toastydeath> wait, machinetools.com
[02:06:36] <toastydeath> neither had a control, but they were both full CNC engine lathes
[02:06:48] <toastydeath> late 70's
[02:07:30] <toastydeath> but i think they were both 5-6k usd, so out of the range of most
[02:07:37] <toastydeath> but ready to go sans control
[02:10:40] <spastic_teapot> http://cgi.ebay.com/Newport-CNC-Bridgeport-Clone-Milling-Machine-NR_W0QQitemZ220286889264QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220286889264&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[02:10:57] <toastydeath> ouch
[02:11:10] <toastydeath> i'd have to look at that machine really hard before accepting that amount of rust
[02:11:17] <toastydeath> but yes, that's what you're looking for
[02:11:30] <toastydeath> that kind of machine will be an order of magnetude better than anything you can throw together at this stage.
[02:11:45] <spastic_teapot> Too big, though.
[02:11:57] <toastydeath> if that's too big, you aren't going to be able to fit old iron
[02:12:15] <spastic_teapot> I was sort of hoping for something that I could move without a forklift.
[02:12:43] <toastydeath> "old iron" comes in two sizes, bridgeport-sized, and larger
[02:12:45] <spastic_teapot> Most of the DIY setups I've seen look like they don't weigh more than a hundred pounds or so.
[02:12:50] <spastic_teapot> toastydeath: Woah.
[02:12:52] <toastydeath> indeed.
[02:12:58] <toastydeath> bridgeports are small milling machines.
[02:13:24] <toastydeath> but!
[02:13:41] <toastydeath> people have plenty of success with the desktop style machines they build
[02:13:49] <toastydeath> especially for pcb stuff
[02:13:49] <spastic_teapot> Yep.
[02:14:03] <spastic_teapot> Which, ironically, I'll have to heavily bribe an old-school fabricator to make for me.
[02:14:05] <SWPadnos> one of the folks here got a zenbot, and after significant changes it's actually usable (for PCB milling)
[02:14:15] <spastic_teapot> zenbot?
[02:14:48] <SWPadnos> here's his blog entry about it: http://axis.unpy.net/01188338604
[02:14:52] <spastic_teapot> http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/06/21/home-made-cnc-machine/
[02:15:36] <toastydeath> spastic_teapot: i am assuming you don't have a garage
[02:15:42] <toastydeath> or, if you do, are looking to use it for other things
[02:15:49] <SWPadnos> like parking a car
[02:15:58] <toastydeath> yes, things like that
[02:16:08] <spastic_teapot> I've got a basement.
[02:16:20] <toastydeath> ah.
[02:16:37] <toastydeath> what i was getting at is i've never met anyone who has regretted getting a bridgeport.
[02:16:41] <SWPadnos> a quick eBay search turned this up: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving_W0QQitemZ190256577567QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190256577567&_trkparms=72%3A1209%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[02:16:48] <toastydeath> well, specific machines, yes, but a bridgeport-sized machine, no
[02:16:58] <toastydeath> but they're difficult to move into a basement
[02:17:01] <toastydeath> very easy to move into a garage.
[02:17:04] <spastic_teapot> SWPadnos: Niiiiice.
[02:17:11] <SWPadnos> out of a basement is harder
[02:17:24] <spastic_teapot> toastydeath: Won't be living here forever....
[02:17:32] <toastydeath> let me rephrase that
[02:17:37] <spastic_teapot> That CNC router-engraver on eBay looks sweet.
[02:17:46] <SWPadnos> it's tiny and light
[02:18:01] <SWPadnos> 200x150x22mm travels - very small
[02:18:08] <SWPadnos> err - 42 for Z
[02:18:41] <spastic_teapot> 22mm?
[02:18:57] <SWPadnos> ~1.5 inches
[02:19:01] <SWPadnos> 42mm
[02:19:11] <spastic_teapot> I know what 22mm is.
[02:19:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:19:24] <toastydeath> a bridgeport is like 30"x12"x10"
[02:19:25] <SWPadnos> that's <1 inch ;)
[02:19:44] <toastydeath> and like i said, easy to move in and out of garages - but you have to have a garage.
[02:19:50] <SWPadnos> the travels are closer to 24" x 10" x 5" (plus the 16" of quill travel)
[02:20:30] <spastic_teapot> SWPadnos: It's about 1.5 inches...
[02:20:39] <spastic_teapot> Also, I don't think I can afford a proper milling machine.
[02:20:40] <SWPadnos> 22mm isn't. 42mm is
[02:21:15] <spastic_teapot> Wait...is it 22mm or 42mm?
[02:21:28] <SWPadnos> it's actually 42mm. I typoed 22mm at first
[02:21:56] <spastic_teapot> Yep.
[02:22:27] <SWPadnos> that's a reasonable amount for PCB engraving, since many PCB drills and engravers are close enough to the same length and you only need ~5mm of travel for actual milling/drilling/routing
[02:22:36] <SWPadnos> 3mm would probably do actually
[02:22:48] <SWPadnos> (for standard thickness PCB substrates)
[02:23:09] <spastic_teapot> Eh - I think I'd be better off just etching my PCBs and using SMD for the whole thing.
[02:23:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:23:39] <spastic_teapot> I'm more interested in cutting things out of sheets of metals.
[02:23:57] <toastydeath> plasma?
[02:24:00] <SWPadnos> personally, I usually wonder why people don't use the quick-turn proto houses, when it's ~$30/board
[02:24:21] <SWPadnos> but people do get good use from milling their own boards, so I won't argue with that success
[02:24:23] <toastydeath> if i may make a suggestion, and others may disagree with me who have more experience
[02:24:36] <spastic_teapot> SWPadnos: $30/board is a lot.
[02:24:36] <toastydeath> but milling straight through a sheet of metal is a huge pain in the butt
[02:24:45] <spastic_teapot> Especially when I'm likely to have made a severe goof.
[02:25:05] <toastydeath> spastic_teapot: you can make quite a few goofs for the 700+ it's going to cost you
[02:25:12] <toastydeath> to get a mill and some basic tooling
[02:25:27] <spastic_teapot> toastydeath: Mostly I want to cut sheets of metal a few mm thick.
[02:25:40] <toastydeath> a mill, in my opinion, is the wrong tool to do that, but it's doable.
[02:25:42] <SWPadnos> if you consider the time it takes to get the G-code done and profed out, then the time it takes to actually mill the board (which can be many minutes or hours), then it starts to look less and less great
[02:25:50] <SWPadnos> proofed
[02:26:06] <SWPadnos> and the fact that you can't have solder mask or plated holes ...
[02:26:22] <spastic_teapot> toastydeath: A better option is....?
[02:26:26] <skunkworks> but it builds charactor
[02:27:02] <toastydeath> spastic_teapot: plasma
[02:27:09] <spastic_teapot> Plasma sounds expensive.
[02:27:14] <toastydeath> unfortunately that's expensive compared to diy milling
[02:27:18] <toastydeath> in the short term
[02:27:27] <toastydeath> in the long term, it's less expensive
[02:27:41] <spastic_teapot> Also, isn't it not very high precision?
[02:27:55] <toastydeath> correct.
[02:27:58] <toastydeath> but like i said
[02:28:06] <toastydeath> milling thin, and even thick, sheets of metal is a huge pain in the butt
[02:28:09] <toastydeath> huge.
[02:28:14] <spastic_teapot> I was hoping to use this for jewelry....
[02:28:22] <toastydeath> i see.
[02:28:26] <spastic_teapot> Cutting things out with a tiny saw is a pain in the ass.
[02:28:34] <spastic_teapot> One goof, and you have to start over.
[02:28:53] <toastydeath> the issue is holding things, and relocating the part.
[02:29:11] <toastydeath> i had to make some simple things - a pair of 11" flange covers
[02:29:14] <toastydeath> for some guy at school
[02:29:25] <toastydeath> 3x .750" holes, 11" diameter
[02:29:35] <toastydeath> took me forever because holding it was ridiculous
[02:29:47] <spastic_teapot> Ah.
[02:29:49] <toastydeath> the cuts took 5 minutes, tops
[02:29:59] <toastydeath> holding the plates took me days because i had to make fixtures
[02:30:20] <toastydeath> and then re-locate the part and fixture again
[02:30:51] <toastydeath> it's doable, though.
[02:31:12] <spastic_teapot> Plan B is to use a heavy-duty etch mask and use high current to etch the metal.
[02:31:28] <toastydeath> if you really are looking to make jewlery, a mill might be more useful
[02:31:34] <toastydeath> for engraving patterns and whatnot
[02:31:40] <toastydeath> plus you can cnc a 4th axis later and do rings and stuff
[02:31:54] <spastic_teapot> Weren't you just saying that a mill was not such a good idea?
[02:32:01] <toastydeath> it isn't, for sheet.
[02:32:11] <toastydeath> for other stuff, it's amazing.
[02:32:44] <toastydeath> i am just thinking out loud, sorry.
[02:32:52] <spastic_teapot> Hmm.
[02:33:11] <toastydeath> i imagine if i had to cut sheet really often i'd have the stuff all made up to hold it
[02:33:16] <spastic_teapot> Any suggestion for the best way to cut high-precision parts out of 18ga. sheet?
[02:33:18] <toastydeath> it's still a pain, but if i did it a lot i could make it less of a pain
[02:33:38] <toastydeath> lol, a 1.5" thick block of aluminum, some taps and bolts, and some sticky tape
[02:34:00] <toastydeath> you bolt the block of alum to the table, and now you have a surface you can drill and tap to put bolts and things through
[02:34:00] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-ROUTER-SIDEWINDER-SIDE-WINDER_W0QQitemZ320306062123QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320306062123&_trkparms=72%3A1209%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[02:34:05] <toastydeath> the sticky tape will hold the plate down.
[02:34:11] <spastic_teapot> There are some special clamps that you use for holding thin metal in a drill press.
[02:34:11] <toastydeath> for freeform milling.
[02:34:36] <toastydeath> drilling != miling
[02:34:45] <toastydeath> in milling, the big issue is that the part comes free.
[02:35:01] <toastydeath> you are going to mill a shape, and it's going to start flopping everywhere and go crazy
[02:35:07] <SWPadnos> milling introduces side loads, and you also end up with pieces flying off the work (sometimes the part you want)
[02:35:39] <toastydeath> but seriously, double stick tape
[02:35:40] <spastic_teapot> Ah.
[02:35:49] <spastic_teapot> What if I did something with this?
[02:35:50] <spastic_teapot> http://toolmonger.com/2006/08/31/finds-northern-tools-cross-slide-drill-press-vise/
[02:36:01] <toastydeath> a toolmaker at the local college i go to used to cut 4 foot by 4 foot, .250 sheets of metal
[02:36:06] <toastydeath> on a huge vertical lathe
[02:36:12] <toastydeath> with nothing but tape
[02:36:18] <toastydeath> had to go slow, but it works.
[02:36:29] <toastydeath> not going to work, dude
[02:36:32] <SWPadnos> night guys
[02:36:36] <toastydeath> night swpadnos
[02:36:48] <toastydeath> milling sheet means the sheet has to be bolted in critical locations, or taped down
[02:37:27] <toastydeath> you can't even hold sheet in a vise because the edge force bows it
[02:37:43] <toastydeath> and if you DO manage to get it clamped, it'll pop out as soon as you start milling
[02:37:46] <spastic_teapot> What if the sheet was taped down to a block of wood?
[02:37:57] <toastydeath> i'd refer you back to the block of aluminum
[02:38:02] <toastydeath> wood works, but it's not the best
[02:38:08] <spastic_teapot> Okay, aluminum.
[02:38:15] <toastydeath> put a bolt pattern in an aluminum block so it bolts to the table
[02:38:21] <toastydeath> flycut it so it's flat with your machine
[02:38:28] <toastydeath> and then you can clean it with alcohol and use double sided tape
[02:38:39] <toastydeath> as long as it doesn't get too hot during the process, it'll hold very well
[02:39:06] <toastydeath> just be really careful in the order you do things, or you'll cut yourself into a spot where it's impossible to complete the part
[02:40:01] <toastydeath> that's why plasma is so superior - you can just burn the part out and you're done
[02:40:04] <toastydeath> laser even more so.
[02:40:46] <spastic_teapot> Laser sounds like the best option.
[02:40:54] <spastic_teapot> Also the most expensive.
[02:40:59] <toastydeath> not as accurate as milling, but more accurate and better finish than plasma
[02:41:07] <toastydeath> sort of - some dudes manage to scavange CO2 heads
[02:41:15] <toastydeath> at that point it's no worse than any other machine tool
[02:41:39] <spastic_teapot> Also, I'm not familiar with the term "fly cutting".
[02:41:52] <toastydeath> are you familiar with lathe tools
[02:42:23] <toastydeath> basically a flycutter is a large, adjustible radius tool with only one cutting point
[02:42:31] <toastydeath> it's used for finising large surfaces accurately
[02:43:24] <spastic_teapot> I'm not much of a machinist.
[02:43:34] <toastydeath> http://www.finelinehair.com/home/fly_cutter_straight_shank.jpg
[02:43:35] <toastydeath> there
[02:43:52] <spastic_teapot> Although it sounds like I ought to learn....
[02:43:56] <toastydeath> lol
[02:44:12] <toastydeath> there's quite a vocabulary
[02:45:48] <toastydeath> i am a machinist apprentice
[02:46:13] <toastydeath> if you have a local community college, look in the noncredit section
[02:46:22] <toastydeath> many schools have a very tiny machine shop and like, one class
[02:46:30] <spastic_teapot> I'm headed for one next year.
[02:46:33] <toastydeath> cool!
[02:46:37] <spastic_teapot> We have a very big machine shop.
[02:46:43] <toastydeath> good
[02:47:03] <toastydeath> i would recommend delaying the project until you had some in-school experience
[02:47:09] <spastic_teapot> Fair enough.
[02:47:16] <spastic_teapot> I'll just keep up using the jewler's saw.
[02:47:20] <toastydeath> lol
[02:47:25] <spastic_teapot> I hate that thing soooo much.
[02:47:28] <toastydeath> if you are really hard up to get on something, then do it
[02:47:35] <toastydeath> but you're going to find things you wish you did differently
[02:47:41] <toastydeath> so it's whatever you prefer
[02:47:48] <spastic_teapot> Eh....I'm in no huge hurry.
[02:48:22] <spastic_teapot> I'd like to be able to make things without spending hours bent over a bench pin, but it sounds like the best way to go.
[02:48:37] <toastydeath> * toastydeath shrug
[02:49:11] <toastydeath> what school, if you don't mind my asking
[02:49:46] <spastic_teapot> Madison Area Technical College.
[02:49:56] <toastydeath> cool
[02:50:02] <spastic_teapot> My father teaches there.
[02:50:29] <spastic_teapot> I figure I can spend a few years as a starving artist before going off and getting a teaching or communications degree.
[02:50:42] <toastydeath> hahaha
[02:50:59] <spastic_teapot> Life is too !@#$ short to spend it all sitting in a cubicle.
[02:51:04] <spastic_teapot> Or, worse....grading.
[02:51:17] <toastydeath> i concur heartily
[02:52:12] <spastic_teapot> Dumb question...but wouldn't a laser work poorly on reflective metals?
[02:52:28] <toastydeath> not really
[02:52:42] <toastydeath> mirrors, yeah
[02:52:55] <spastic_teapot> Hmm.
[02:53:04] <spastic_teapot> I've been looking around, and building a laser cutter might not be so hard.
[02:53:38] <spastic_teapot> You don't need beefy steppers (there's no mechanical resistance), and the X-Y sliding tray assembly need not deal with much vibration.
[02:53:44] <toastydeath> never ran a laser, i just know that they're better for sheet
[02:53:45] <toastydeath> than a mill
[02:54:10] <spastic_teapot> And I would assume that gluing one to something disposalble - maybe a brick? - would keep it from moving.
[02:54:20] <toastydeath> for milling?
[02:54:20] <toastydeath> no
[02:54:24] <spastic_teapot> For lasering!
[02:54:33] <toastydeath> oh, you don't even have to hold it down
[02:54:36] <spastic_teapot> Also, I could make many LOLcats-based jokes.
[02:55:03] <toastydeath> hahaha
[02:55:29] <spastic_teapot> I'm in ur machine shop, FIRIN MAH LASAR!
[02:55:35] <toastydeath> hahahahah
[02:55:42] <toastydeath> obvious anon is obvious
[02:56:21] <spastic_teapot> :)
[02:57:30] <toastydeath> i dunno man, it's hard to say for sure that you need a laser
[02:57:31] <toastydeath> and not a mill
[02:57:42] <toastydeath> because obviously i don't know the particulars of what you intend to do
[02:57:49] <toastydeath> but you'll find out.
[02:58:45] <spastic_teapot> :)
[03:00:02] <spastic_teapot> Does anyone know what the U.S. laws on lasers are?
[03:00:09] <spastic_teapot> Apparently, I might need some sort of permit.
[03:02:13] <LawrenceG> law... dont look directly into laser beam with remaining eye...
[03:04:32] <toastydeath> in soviet russia, laser beam shouldn't look directly into YOU
[03:13:29] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: I think the surface-mount board I was telling you about last week is a success
[03:14:57] <jepler> several WTF moments along the way, but once I figured out what was going on it all made sense
[03:15:28] <jepler> the last problem is that the XTAL2 pin (used to run the crystal oscillator) is also a GPIO, and my led-flasher program was stomping on that pin and stopping the clock
[03:17:14] <jepler> 'night all
[03:17:39] <joe__> joe__ is now known as spasticteapot_ha
[03:17:47] <spasticteapot_ha> spasticteapot_ha is now known as spasticteapot__
[03:39:02] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: cool :-)
[03:46:50] <dareposte1> emc has been making my lathe cut air all night, i'm a bit nervous about actually chucking something up in it. any first-run advice??
[03:47:26] <dareposte1> its a garage conversion el-cheapo lathe, so i guess it won't hurt too bad when it crashes
[03:47:30] <dareposte1> price wise that is
[03:47:40] <cradek> can you say what in particular has you nervous?
[03:48:57] <cradek> be careful of the tool and chuck jaws colliding - be sure of where Z is set
[03:49:07] <dareposte1> hmm just the whole thing, i've never cut anything on cnc before
[03:49:22] <dareposte1> mostly nervous about making a bozo mistake that i should have heard about
[03:49:54] <cradek> mistakes come from untested gcode, or incorrectly set offsets (even with tested gcode)
[03:50:20] <seb_kuzminsky> if you're cutting air into the right shape that's a good start :-)
[03:50:20] <cradek> if you check where your zeroes are, and the extents of the program, it'll be fine
[03:50:33] <cradek> yes! air cuts very nice, and tooling is cheap
[03:50:59] <dareposte1> it runs so slow, except for the rapids
[03:51:10] <dareposte1> hard to tell exactly what its cutting
[03:51:16] <dareposte1> maybe try some plastic or wood first?
[03:51:34] <cradek> I wouldn't - those can actually be harder to deal with
[03:51:49] <cradek> plastic melts, wood burns and badly dulls tools
[03:52:20] <dareposte1> really
[03:52:20] <cradek> aluminum and brass are good to start with
[03:52:26] <dareposte1> i've got a hunk of aluminum
[03:52:46] <dareposte1> i was hoping i'd be able to turn some hardwood on it, for making coyote calls
[03:52:56] <dareposte1> maybe need a different type of tool though i guess
[03:52:57] <cradek> some nice 1/4 inch aluminum bar?
[03:53:03] <dareposte1> i have a 3/4" aluminum bar
[03:53:09] <dareposte1> and a decent amount of it
[03:53:12] <cradek> for wood, use carbide, turn the spindle up as fast as it will go
[03:53:23] <dareposte1> cemented carbine indexable inserts okay?
[03:53:28] <dareposte1> carbide
[03:53:32] <cradek> ah, maybe it's a little bigger lathe than I thought
[03:54:08] <dareposte1> its a 9" swing x 20" long
[03:54:23] <cradek> heh, I think of that as full size :-)
[03:54:31] <cradek> much bigger than my chucker
[03:54:36] <dareposte1> weighs a few hundred pounds before i stripped its gears and most of the useful things off it for cnc
[03:55:01] <dareposte1> oddly enough after the cnc conversion i can move it by myself, so i'd say its under 200 lbs
[03:55:01] <cradek> ah, mine weighs about two tons - a little different :-)
[03:55:05] <dareposte1> yeah
[03:55:38] <cradek> but, I can move it by myself too!
[03:55:45] <cradek> just takes a few simple tools.
[03:55:54] <dareposte1> hah
[03:55:59] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: shop crane?
[03:56:17] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: pry bar, rollers
[03:56:21] <dareposte1> well i can heft mine around with nothing but brute force if need be
[03:56:24] <seb_kuzminsky> lawl
[03:56:38] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: (really)
[03:56:46] <dareposte1> egyptian style
[03:56:47] <cradek> it's easy, just takes some thinking ahead
[03:57:05] <dareposte1> how do you move it up the stairs?
[03:57:10] <dareposte1> :)
[03:57:11] <cradek> stairs!?
[03:57:11] <seb_kuzminsky> i believe you :-)
[03:57:25] <seb_kuzminsky> it's just... 2 tons on a prybar :-)
[03:57:35] <dareposte1> yeah mine is in my 2nd story apartment
[03:57:43] <cradek> I did move the bridgeport up a 2" step... easy
[03:58:02] <seb_kuzminsky> you have a winch on the bus yet? ;-)
[03:58:04] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I have a couple nice 4? foot bars
[03:59:20] <cradek> amazing what a 10-20x multiplier of one's own weight does
[04:00:16] <dareposte1> no kidding...
[04:00:23] <seb_kuzminsky> you lift an edge and put it up on a little dolly roller?
[04:00:34] <cradek> just some 1/2" steel rod
[04:00:49] <seb_kuzminsky> cool
[04:01:01] <cradek> you can turn corners - just fan out the rods
[04:01:13] <cradek> it's easy to put it just where you want with a little practice
[04:01:51] <seb_kuzminsky> then when it's there, lift it with the prybar and pull the steel rods out again?
[04:02:22] <cradek> yes, you end up with one or two still under it that you have to lift off of
[04:02:53] <cradek> for short distances you can just scoot it with the bar - like moving back against a wall or something.
[04:03:15] <seb_kuzminsky> sort of walk it on the "wrists" of a couple of prybars?
[04:03:20] <cradek> yes
[04:03:49] <seb_kuzminsky> well i know who i'm inviting next time i need some rigging done ;-)
[04:04:06] <cradek> yeah I'm an expert - I've moved **two** machines :-)
[04:04:12] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[04:04:15] <cradek> obviously I know everything there is to know!
[04:04:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i've moved two too, but they weighed 150 lbs each ;-)
[04:04:46] <cradek> oh, another thing, rent a forklift when you need it, no need to be an idiot
[04:05:14] <seb_kuzminsky> a pal here bought a shop crane to move his welder around, i might try that before the forklift
[04:05:33] <seb_kuzminsky> the crane's a pretty sweet tool if there's good lift points
[04:05:44] <seb_kuzminsky> stows away in a corner too, when not needed :-)
[04:05:51] <cradek> some stuff you can lift from the top, like my mill - lathe, only bottom
[04:06:06] <seb_kuzminsky> hey, did you read the hal ramblings i emailed you the other night
[04:06:07] <seb_kuzminsky> ?
[04:06:13] <cradek> the mill has a nice hole for a chain at the balance point
[04:06:34] <cradek> yes - I went looking for "newinst" which I recall someone adding, maybe on a branch, but I didn't find it
[04:06:46] <cradek> it was a way to get pins 'later' after module loading
[04:06:51] <seb_kuzminsky> mmmm
[04:07:08] <seb_kuzminsky> one fevery moment i imagined making a different comp_id for each pin...
[04:07:23] <cradek> I think you should talk to jmk; this isn't my strong area
[04:07:34] <seb_kuzminsky> ok i will
[04:07:59] <cradek> oh, it's in the code, just #if 0ed
[04:08:06] <cradek> #if 0 /* newinst deferred to version 2.2 */
[04:08:07] <seb_kuzminsky> though i feel i've abused his hospitality enough with the firmware crap a few months ago
[04:08:08] <cradek> funny
[04:08:43] <cradek> newinst uses /proc ... somehow
[04:08:49] <cradek> have you looked at this?
[04:09:14] <seb_kuzminsky> not before just now
[04:09:30] <cradek> it might even be done, but the author wasn't quite bold enough to enable it
[04:10:22] <cradek> (I'm not at all sure it helps you)
[04:11:44] <seb_kuzminsky> something to look into at least
[04:12:29] <spasticteapot__> Does anyone here know a good place to buy enormous numbers of high-speed steel drillbits?
[04:13:00] <dareposte1> any other qualifiers?
[04:13:07] <cradek> I bet many places have a quantity discount - how big is enormous?
[04:13:27] <spasticteapot__> I need some "#52", "#55" and "#59" drillbits (I'm not so sure what these are - I think in metric), and about forty of each.
[04:13:49] <spasticteapot__> That's what the teacher specified.
[04:13:50] <cradek> oh forty, heh
[04:13:57] <dareposte1> yeah i was thinking in the thousands
[04:13:58] <cradek> pcb drills?
[04:13:58] <spasticteapot__> Considering how fast people break the drillbits, I'm thinking triple that.
[04:14:08] <spasticteapot__> cradek: Soft metal.
[04:14:17] <spasticteapot__> These are for ham-fisted students, so no carbide.
[04:14:18] <cradek> oh right, you said hss
[04:14:34] <cradek> those are american sizes, not metric
[04:14:45] <cradek> and they are very small sizes
[04:14:56] <seb_kuzminsky> good night all
[04:14:58] <spasticteapot__> Yep.
[04:15:13] <spasticteapot__> Should I just drive out to Harbor Freight?
[04:15:15] <cradek> hope you have a very high speed spindle!
[04:15:31] <cradek> no, you will only find sets there, and they really quite suck
[04:15:40] <spasticteapot__> Yep.
[04:15:42] <cradek> you will have to order them. I like enco (use-enco.com)
[04:15:48] <dareposte1> you could save some cash if you'd go to a 1/16" instead of a #52
[04:16:04] <cradek> yes 1/16 will be much cheaper
[04:16:10] <dareposte1> only .010" difference I believe
[04:16:38] <cradek> how deep will they need to drill? very fast spindle I assume?
[04:16:40] <dareposte1> 3/64 is close to a 55
[04:16:54] <cradek> I bet 3/64 will not be cheaper though
[04:16:56] <spasticteapot__> cradek: Reasonably fast.
[04:17:00] <spasticteapot__> Possibly dremels.
[04:17:01] <dareposte1> yeah maybe not
[04:17:24] <spasticteapot__> 1/16 would likely work okay.
[04:17:33] <cradek> dremels can't chuck up any old drill bit
[04:17:42] <cradek> they have specific sizes of collets, and I don't know what they are
[04:17:43] <dareposte1> i've had good drill bit success wtih wttool.com
[04:17:52] <dareposte1> dunno about quantities greater than 2-3 though
[04:18:11] <dareposte1> most collets should be able to accept a .010" difference
[04:18:37] <spasticteapot__> We've got a few with aftermarket clampy-bits on the end.
[04:18:39] <spasticteapot__> :)
[04:19:16] <spasticteapot__> I'm looking at enco - they have a huge variety of drillbits.
[04:19:25] <spasticteapot__> I can't find one that just says "ordinary drillbit", though.
[04:19:31] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=891-4571&PMPXNO=3904522&PARTPG=INLMK32
[04:19:35] <dareposte1> you want just like a jobber bit probably
[04:19:40] <cradek> $.66 at qty 60
[04:19:58] <cradek> if you don't need to drill deep, consider screw machine (shorter) drills
[04:20:34] <cradek> 135 degree split points are much better at starting the hole where you want, but they cost more
[04:20:52] <spasticteapot__> cradek: Screw machine bits sound about right.
[04:21:00] <spasticteapot__> As do the 135-degree split points.
[04:21:17] <spasticteapot__> How tough are these?
[04:21:24] <spasticteapot__> A lot of the students are...ham-fisted.
[04:21:35] <spasticteapot__> I keep yelling at some of them to stop trying to light the hammers on fire.
[04:21:38] <cradek> will they be holding the dremel by hand to drill?
[04:21:40] <spasticteapot__> This is not hyperbole.
[04:21:43] <cradek> ha
[04:21:51] <spasticteapot__> cradek: Yep.
[04:21:55] <cradek> there is no such thing as a tough 1/16" drill bit
[04:22:07] <dareposte1> hows $0.36/ea sound
[04:22:07] <spasticteapot__> Sounds like we need some mini-drillpresses.
[04:22:21] <spasticteapot__> I've got one of the old-fashioned ones you fit a power drill in.....
[04:22:24] <dareposte1> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/22768/nm/Number_Size_Jobber_Drills_WT_Import_
[04:22:56] <cradek> dareposte1: ship weight 1.00 lbs !?!?
[04:23:11] <dareposte1> guess they round up
[04:23:17] <dareposte1> box weight: 15.99 ounces
[04:23:17] <cradek> the one at enco is a 10x better drill for 2x the price
[04:23:58] <spasticteapot__> I would guess as much.
[04:24:24] <dareposte1> yeah i'd say it probably is
[04:25:23] <spasticteapot__> 66 cents isn't too bad.
[04:25:39] <spasticteapot__> $40 will get me 20 drillbits of three sizes.
[04:25:55] <spasticteapot__> Any chance you can recommend me a good hand-punch set?
[04:26:10] <spasticteapot__> I'm starting to rethink my Harbor Frieght shopping list....
[04:26:11] <cradek> I'm sure you can find much cheaper, but I refuse to buy the cheapest drills because they make every job suck.
[04:26:22] <cradek> what do you mean hand-punch set?
[04:26:31] <dareposte1> i've had pretty good luck with the wttool drill bits, but i got the US ones
[04:26:47] <spasticteapot__> cradek: A hand punch for making holes in metal?
[04:26:51] <spasticteapot__> dareposte1: Link?
[04:27:09] <cradek> what kind of holes in what kind and thickness of metal?
[04:27:34] <dareposte1> i got a 7/8" tap from there too for a one-time use type thing and it was pretty good as well, it was the "import" one
[04:28:14] <dareposte1> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/25674/nm/Number_Size_Jobber_Drills_USA_ is the us bit, but enco is cheaper on that one
[04:28:16] <cradek> if you can get by with the 1/16 size only, you might find them cheap in the bulk bin at your hardware store
[04:28:37] <spasticteapot__> cradek: As big as possible in 18ga. brass.
[04:28:54] <dareposte1> hole saw?
[04:29:12] <cradek> I do not have experience with that
[04:29:29] <spasticteapot__> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=505-0439&PMPXNO=950610
[04:29:34] <spasticteapot__> Is this any good?
[04:29:36] <cradek> making holes in sheet can be hard
[04:29:40] <spasticteapot__> $10 is suspiciously cheap.
[04:29:41] <dareposte1> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/38512/nm/High_Speed_Hole_Saws
[04:29:52] <cradek> oh, tiny holes :-)
[04:29:58] <cradek> I was thinking inches
[04:30:03] <dareposte1> he said as big as possible...
[04:30:27] <cradek> yeah, that's not very precise is it
[04:30:34] <dareposte1> we use some hand punches like that for shim stock at work
[04:30:44] <dareposte1> the biggest it will do without major straining is 0.5mm
[04:31:10] <dareposte1> but brass might punch easier than steel
[04:31:20] <spasticteapot__> What guage?
[04:31:50] <dareposte1> dunno
[04:31:53] <dareposte1> 18 gauge is 1.2mm
[04:32:00] <dareposte1> no idea what gauge is 0.5mm though
[04:32:48] <dareposte1> maybe 28 gauge would be close
[04:33:04] <spasticteapot__> I think I figured out my problem.
[04:33:09] <spasticteapot__> That's an $80 hand punch.
[04:33:12] <dareposte1> better is the type you slide the shim in and put a punch on it and smack it with a hammer
[04:33:24] <dareposte1> like a punch and die
[04:33:41] <spasticteapot__> I've seen people use hand punches for large holes on projects.
[04:33:51] <spasticteapot__> Also, unlike a punch and die, you can use them on curved surfaces.
[04:34:01] <spasticteapot__> That said, big holes are nice.
[04:34:02] <dareposte1> we try not to let our shims curve
[04:34:14] <spasticteapot__> Any suggestions on where I could buy either a hand punch or hammer punch set cheaply?
[04:34:16] <dareposte1> the die set keeps them nice and flat
[04:34:32] <spasticteapot__> dareposte1: Things like earrings and beads tend to be curved.
[04:35:11] <dareposte1> never tried punching those, only shims
[04:36:36] <spasticteapot__> Hence the hand punch.
[04:36:43] <spasticteapot__> Anyway...where can I buy these cheaply?
[04:36:54] <spasticteapot__> Harbor Freight has them, but Harbor Frieght is rubbish.
[04:36:58] <dareposte1> i don't think they get much cheaper than a benjamin
[04:37:28] <dareposte1> if you have some machine tooling you can make a punch and die pretty easily though
[04:38:03] <dareposte1> depending on your accuracy requirements
[04:39:55] <spasticteapot__> ?
[04:40:03] <spasticteapot__> I just want to get a set for making holes.
[04:43:21] <dareposte1> holes of a particular size? or just any hole without specific needs for accuracy
[04:45:37] <dareposte1> i doubt the hand punch you linked to would punch 16ga, but it doesn't really specify its capacity
[04:47:41] <spasticteapot__> dareposte1: This one looks the same, and is rated for 14ga.
[04:47:42] <spasticteapot__> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FPOYQU?smid=A2ZSTDEXO9VTZF&tag=nextag-tools-tier4-20&linkCode=asn
[04:51:02] <dareposte1> brass has a shear strength around 35ksi
[04:51:11] <dareposte1> so for a 1/4" hole you'd need about 1200 lbs
[04:51:34] <dareposte1> in 18 ga. brass sheet
[04:52:03] <dareposte1> the enco one you listed said its "one ton" so it would probably do it for brass
[04:54:01] <spasticteapot__> The enco one is $80.
[04:54:05] <spasticteapot__> That's a little steep.
[04:54:29] <spasticteapot__> Also, 3/8" is just fine...
[04:55:02] <spasticteapot__> Odds are that the school will buy the J.C. Whitney punch, it will get used until it falls to bits, and then a better one will be bought in its stead.
[04:56:01] <dareposte1> the frame probably won't wear out, you can replace the punch sets if you can find them
[04:57:18] <dareposte1> dareposte1 is now known as dareposte
[05:50:51] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3Nm3vwkpY
[05:58:26] <cradek> eek, you need to cover your ballscew before you cut
[05:59:19] <cradek> haha
[05:59:43] <cradek> it's reading 9 thousandths, no, 11 thousandths, hell I don't know what it's reading. [end of video]
[05:59:47] <cradek> oh darn, he left
[06:00:06] <cradek> goodnight!
[06:50:38] <dan_the_welder> hello anybody up?
[06:52:14] <dan_the_welder> so, I killed emc somehow
[06:53:51] <dan_the_welder> I was customizing a config, edit start emc, exit emc and repeat. It was finally working and then it stopped.
[06:55:22] <dan_the_welder> It would show the config selector, then it would do nothing once I selected my config, everything was running according to system monitor but no visible axis.
[06:56:40] <dan_the_welder> if I tried to start it agin, it would show the "emc is already running, restart?" dialog.
[06:56:59] <dan_the_welder> so, restart, yes, and still nothing.
[06:57:14] <dan_the_welder> rebooted, and still the same.
[07:37:51] <gfixler> I can't get emails through to the list again
[07:37:57] <gfixler> anyone else having troubles?
[07:38:04] <gfixler> I've had endless problems with both the mailing list, and emc2 :(
[07:40:46] <dan_the_welder> source forge is laggy
[07:41:00] <gfixler> more than a day for emails to get through?
[07:41:19] <dan_the_welder> I get the digest and sometimes nothing for a day, then two or three digents at once
[07:41:27] <gfixler> ah
[07:41:30] <gfixler> that's a pain
[07:41:41] <gfixler> I see the list gets about 1 to 3 new topics per day now
[07:41:52] <dan_the_welder> yeah, Source Forge needs a congressional bailout
[07:41:52] <gfixler> or 1 to 3 replies, maybe
[07:41:57] <gfixler> hehe
[07:42:13] <dan_the_welder> I have been to lazy to look on the server
[07:42:28] <dan_the_welder> digest when it comes is just fine
[07:42:51] <dan_the_welder> so, you a whiz? I got problems
[07:42:55] <gfixler> I'm just trying to figure out if there are some next steps I can take to once and for all figure a way past my latency problems
[07:43:07] <gfixler> I'm having a hard time tracking down a complete list of culprits
[07:43:13] <dan_the_welder> oh, I have dealt with some of that
[07:43:19] <dan_the_welder> SMI
[07:43:21] <gfixler> were you victorious?
[07:43:24] <dan_the_welder> yes
[07:43:31] <gfixler> that's exciting news
[07:43:42] <gfixler> I'm starting around 6-8k when I fire up latency-test
[07:43:53] <dan_the_welder> were you on the email about fixing the SMI last week?
[07:43:58] <gfixler> no
[07:44:00] <gfixler> but I did see that
[07:44:09] <gfixler> if I browse the net, and open a detailed flash game, it goes to about 35-40k
[07:44:18] <gfixler> if I then pop open glxgears, about 150k+
[07:44:31] <gfixler> and if I maximize glxgears, it jumps to almost 400k
[07:44:44] <gfixler> if I then use the arrows to move the gears around, it goes as high as 520k
[07:44:49] <dan_the_welder> well, I try not to do anything other than EMC, even though you are supposed to be able to
[07:44:50] <gfixler> which is apparently horrendous
[07:44:58] <dan_the_welder> yes, yes it is.
[07:45:13] <gfixler> I was told in here last night that my card is okay
[07:45:20] <dan_the_welder> card?
[07:45:25] <gfixler> video card
[07:45:28] <dan_the_welder> ahh
[07:45:33] <gfixler> '02 Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600
[07:45:52] <gfixler> someone else was using a a comparable card from around that vintage
[07:46:13] <dan_the_welder> some people disable things like sound
[07:46:25] <gfixler> that's a new one to me
[07:47:30] <dan_the_welder> well, in a perfect world your computer does what it's told by emc, but there is all this other crap trying to do what it want to do, sound bluetooth etc etc.
[07:47:44] <gfixler> I see - other interrupts?
[07:48:07] <gfixler> I've got 3 machines in here - 2 shuttles, and the new big box I built early this year
[07:48:15] <gfixler> the oldest of the shuttles is the machine bench box
[07:48:27] <gfixler> I'm totally fine with disabling everything not related to machining
[07:48:32] <gfixler> and leaving it that way
[07:48:35] <dan_the_welder> I am pretty much a noob, but I have been working on the learning curve to get to the point where I do a custom kernel that does not have anything you don't need to run EMC
[07:48:46] <gfixler> nice
[07:48:56] <gfixler> that's getting toward gentoo territory
[07:49:46] <dan_the_welder> yeah exactly, the old controls were slow, and they worked because they were not looking for bit torrents and who knows what else
[07:49:55] <dan_the_welder> gentoo?
[07:50:05] <dan_the_welder> stripped distro?
[07:50:07] <gfixler> a linux distro that's only distributed as source
[07:50:17] <gfixler> it's built around designing it exactly how you want it
[07:50:22] <gfixler> kinda takes ages to set up for a newb
[07:50:25] <gfixler> tons of reading
[07:50:29] <dan_the_welder> that's cool.
[07:50:34] <dan_the_welder> I am not there yet
[07:50:37] <gfixler> but it's touted as the distro with the most advanced help files
[07:50:43] <gfixler> metric tons of information
[07:51:01] <gfixler> gentoo folks are considered the ricers of the linux world
[07:51:16] <gfixler> it uses something I think they call flags
[07:51:20] <gfixler> compile flags, basically
[07:51:42] <gfixler> so you can say, e.g. no sound, yes bluetooth, no [intricate tiny piece of the kernel I don't understand], etc
[07:51:52] <gfixler> and then finally compile, and wait overnight for it to finish :)
[07:52:21] <gfixler> a lot of people on other distros use gentoo's online help files to figure out their related problems, because they really do have just tons of good info
[07:52:32] <dan_the_welder> yeah, the best book on linux I have found so far is "Understanding UNIX, a conceptual guide" from 1983
[07:52:45] <gfixler> wow, that's my favorite year
[07:52:58] <dan_the_welder> it says "Compliments of Hewlett Packard" on the cover
[07:53:00] <gfixler> and interesting that it's the best, as Linux wasn't started until '95
[07:53:10] <gfixler> nor released until '96
[07:53:25] <gfixler> this SMI thread seems rather useful to me, now that I'm reading through it
[07:53:33] <dan_the_welder> well, it helped me stop being confused, because it presupposes no knowlege at all.
[07:53:43] <gfixler> the Nvidia binary drivers look to be crap (I'm using those)
[07:53:48] <gfixler> that's cool
[07:54:03] <dan_the_welder> then I could read some more sofisticated info with out gettting too lost.
[07:54:17] <gfixler> one of the best 'computer' books I ever read was a book on assembly language
[07:54:20] <gfixler> similar thing happened
[07:54:28] <gfixler> he spent about 90% of the book not talking about ASM
[07:54:41] <gfixler> he started with how transistors work
[07:54:49] <dan_the_welder> tight
[07:54:51] <gfixler> then how they're used in buses
[07:54:55] <gfixler> how those become banks
[07:54:57] <gfixler> how registers work
[07:55:05] <dan_the_welder> nice, what was it called?
[07:55:13] <gfixler> by the time I got to the assembly, I knew how computers worked inside and out
[07:55:25] <gfixler> and it was like "Well, of course you'd flip that bit in register 3, duh." :)
[07:55:49] <gfixler> http://www.amazon.com/Art-Assembly-Language-Randall-Hyde/dp/1886411972
[07:56:56] <dan_the_welder> sounds cool
[07:57:16] <gfixler> I then made a few things in an assembly compiler, but have never really used it since, sans a bit of work in PIC Assembler for PIC microchips, which was really easy to understand given this book's training
[07:57:23] <dan_the_welder> is'nt that more for the C programming side of things?
[07:57:28] <gfixler> still, it really opened up my lower-level understanding
[07:57:39] <dan_the_welder> my buddy is all inot PICs
[07:57:42] <dan_the_welder> into
[07:57:43] <gfixler> isn't what for that?
[07:57:46] <gfixler> PICs?
[07:58:03] <dan_the_welder> flipping bits in registers
[07:58:12] <gfixler> it's below C
[07:58:30] <gfixler> you're actually specifically telling some physical thing on the chip to do something specific
[07:58:52] <gfixler> in C, you more often tell it what you want it to do (add two numbers, eg), and it figures out all of the steps underneath at the register level
[07:58:57] <dan_the_welder> yeah, I get that. Transister on!
[07:59:01] <gfixler> hehe
[07:59:12] <gfixler> you can code PICs in C
[07:59:19] <gfixler> but it's really easy in assembly, too
[07:59:30] <gfixler> it makes more sense to me, because I know exactly what I want it to do
[07:59:36] <gfixler> C feels like an unnecessary abstraction to me
[07:59:47] <gfixler> though I suppose it is a bit easier
[07:59:51] <dan_the_welder> yeah my friend is making a pic board tonight, I have seen him compile C for them before
[07:59:57] <gfixler> in C you would do something more like 3 + 4
[08:00:12] <gfixler> in asm, you'd set the address of a register, then use that to push 3 in
[08:00:19] <gfixler> then do that with 4
[08:00:31] <gfixler> then a couple other steps I forget now :)
[08:00:39] <dan_the_welder> I did some assembly back in the day, I used to cart around the 6502 assembly programming guide , oooh yeah me and my commodore 64
[08:00:40] <gfixler> your answer would be the result on another register that you'd read
[08:00:48] <gfixler> nice
[08:01:12] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/908363/
[08:01:15] <dan_the_welder> so, 20 years away from programming has been a bit of a conceptual leap
[08:01:17] <gfixler> that's about as far as I got with PICs
[08:01:24] <gfixler> bit aspirations, poor commitment
[08:01:35] <gfixler> *big* aspirations, I meant
[08:02:06] <dan_the_welder> you can get in trouble for that shiz in boston.........
[08:02:12] <gfixler> hahaha
[08:02:23] <dan_the_welder> yeah, too many project dreams
[08:02:28] <gfixler> what if the message on the LEDs is "I [heart] BOSTON?"
[08:03:24] <dan_the_welder> I keep building machines, and kinda use them and then move on. My plan for this winter is to actually understand EMC and get them all functional
[08:03:52] <dan_the_welder> say I love boston in Gaelic, then you will be ok.
[08:03:52] <gfixler> that's a big plan
[08:04:00] <gfixler> ha
[08:04:20] <dan_the_welder> well, yes, but I have been twiddling with emc for about 6-8 months
[08:04:23] <gfixler> the EMC crowd talks about connecting HAL pins like it's common knowledge :)
[08:04:55] <dan_the_welder> dude, it's true, but you have to 'get that' before you can move on.
[08:05:14] <dan_the_welder> tonight i actually connected a pin, for the first time.
[08:05:21] <gfixler> congrats!
[08:05:36] <gfixler> the biggest problem is my attitude
[08:05:55] <gfixler> I have so many projects in so many areas that when I realize I have to crack open a few hundred pages of books, it really knocks the wind out of my sails
[08:06:18] <dan_the_welder> the machine that I use regularly is just one of the instant configs and it works fine, but I have a router with dual Y axis motors that I have to do a little more involved
[08:06:28] <dan_the_welder> thanks! A small victory
[08:06:46] <dan_the_welder> it's hard to concentrate for sure
[08:07:02] <dan_the_welder> i just sneak a little reading in when I can
[08:07:39] <dan_the_welder> i printed out the EMC intergrators manual and got it bound, so I don't have to read it on the screen
[08:07:43] <gfixler> I have a small problem retaining it with all the other junk in my head
[08:08:02] <dan_the_welder> I just stated a notebook.
[08:08:04] <gfixler> maybe I should assign something like 10-20 minutes per night to it
[08:08:08] <dan_the_welder> started
[08:08:12] <gfixler> that's a good idea
[08:08:36] <gfixler> I feel like I want a video tutorial on all of it
[08:08:43] <gfixler> it can be 2 hours long - I don't mind
[08:08:58] <dan_the_welder> I hate it when I know I have fixed a problem before and can't remember what I did, then you get on google again
[08:09:10] <dan_the_welder> did you ever use Mach3
[08:09:12] <gfixler> I seem to be able to pick up information told to me far faster through video how-tos
[08:09:15] <gfixler> involves more of my senses
[08:09:24] <gfixler> I hate that, too
[08:09:50] <dan_the_welder> hate mach3?
[08:09:54] <gfixler> I've had a few instances of looking up something I can't remember, and finding me giving the answer in a Flickr image's description, or in some forum, or in my journal
[08:10:09] <gfixler> no, I hate forgetting the solution
[08:10:12] <gfixler> I haven't used mach3
[08:10:22] <dan_the_welder> yeah, voilla notebook
[08:10:24] <gfixler> ot
[08:10:34] <gfixler> it's closed-source, right?
[08:10:37] <gfixler> a product?
[08:10:47] <dan_the_welder> yeah windows, 150$
[08:10:54] <dan_the_welder> free demo
[08:10:55] <gfixler> blarg
[08:11:08] <gfixler> I've gotten totally fed up with Windows, and closed-source stuff
[08:11:10] <gfixler> have you used it?
[08:11:24] <dan_the_welder> it works but it's a windows resource hog, you need a fast computer
[08:11:32] <dan_the_welder> yeah
[08:11:46] <dan_the_welder> it just made me hate windows more
[08:12:04] <gfixler> haha
[08:12:23] <gfixler> I have to use XP at work, but I've been on Linux at home for 2 years now
[08:12:37] <gfixler> I had tried Knoppix awhile before switching, and didn't really like it
[08:12:48] <dan_the_welder> I had a computer with the SMI problem, and it made Mach3 puke at random intervals. So, it's windows and there is NOTHING you can do.
[08:12:49] <gfixler> then Ubuntu appeared, got a lot of press, and I got hacked badly at home on XP
[08:12:54] <gfixler> so I switched in anger
[08:13:04] <dan_the_welder> 'in anger'
[08:13:05] <gfixler> and vented for about 2 months or so while using Linux
[08:13:07] <gfixler> now I love it
[08:13:09] <dan_the_welder> thats hilarious
[08:13:13] <gfixler> :)
[08:13:22] <gfixler> I had a text file of all that I hated about Linux
[08:13:26] <gfixler> like no UltraEdit32
[08:13:39] <gfixler> then one day I tried Vim, and I love it at least 10x more than UltraEdit
[08:13:46] <gfixler> it moves the way I think
[08:13:55] <gfixler> now I have all manner of cool hotkeys and tricks set up
[08:13:59] <dan_the_welder> yeah, I have been goofing on linux for about a year, a little less, stared with Ubuntu
[08:14:00] <gfixler> things I can't do on XP, or Vista
[08:14:11] <gfixler> I had a dual boot for awhile - too afraid to let go of XP
[08:14:19] <gfixler> but I never booted into XP
[08:14:22] <gfixler> months would go by
[08:14:30] <gfixler> then a friend wanted me to make him something in Flash, and I had to boot over to it
[08:14:32] <gfixler> and I hated it
[08:14:41] <gfixler> felt like I was mistreating my PC for making it run Windows :)
[08:14:44] <dan_the_welder> oh, you program for a living?
[08:14:59] <gfixler> nah
[08:15:09] <gfixler> I'm about as close as it gets to being a programmer without being one
[08:15:14] <gfixler> I'm always dabbling
[08:15:23] <dan_the_welder> true
[08:15:25] <gfixler> but I still know only a marginal amount of C/C++
[08:15:35] <gfixler> my day job is in animation
[08:15:40] <gfixler> character stuff
[08:16:16] <gfixler> I rig them up, and occasionally animate them, and write a lot of tools to help out in an embedded language in the 3D package, and lately in Python - newly added to the 3D app
[08:16:23] <dan_the_welder> it's like windows is one of those asshole guys who mistreats his girlfriend. You are not fast enough so I am dumping you for new hardware.
[08:16:32] <gfixler> haha
[08:16:33] <dan_the_welder> god python is cool
[08:16:35] <gfixler> yeah
[08:16:41] <gfixler> it is pretty cool
[08:16:49] <gfixler> certain things about it annoy me
[08:17:08] <gfixler> the biggest one is that it's hard for me to tell what works in place, and what returns a modified copy
[08:17:14] <dan_the_welder> I wrote a tiny python program, but I am reading tons about it
[08:17:17] <gfixler> e.g. the difference between sort and sorted
[08:17:50] <dan_the_welder> is that the tuple thing?
[08:18:04] <gfixler> not really
[08:18:14] <gfixler> it's just that some of the commands seem object based, and some function based
[08:18:21] <dan_the_welder> ok, well you are much farther along than I am
[08:18:24] <gfixler> and I feel like I'm always looking up what's what
[08:18:47] <gfixler> to join a list into a string, you might write: ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list'].join(' ')
[08:18:54] <gfixler> that would join the words with spaces
[08:19:00] <gfixler> into a string: "this is a list"
[08:19:27] <gfixler> but to split a string into a list that way, you'd write: ' '.split('this is a list')
[08:19:32] <gfixler> this breaks flow to me
[08:19:51] <gfixler> in the first one, it reads "here's a list, join it with spaces"
[08:20:08] <gfixler> in the second, "here's a space, use that to join this list into a string."
[08:20:20] <gfixler> to me, it should be: 'this is a list'.split(' ')
[08:20:26] <gfixler> same as its inverse
[08:20:30] <dan_the_welder> i find the syntax of it all very confusing
[08:20:39] <gfixler> that would read "here's a string, split it into a list around it's spaces"
[08:20:40] <dan_the_welder> yeah what you are syaing make total sense
[08:20:50] <gfixler> one reason why it makes sense to me my way is this:
[08:21:01] <gfixler> 'this is a list'.split(' ').join('-')
[08:21:09] <dan_the_welder> right I see that
[08:21:16] <gfixler> imo, that should split the list around spaces, then join it back together with dashes
[08:21:22] <dan_the_welder> so what do you animate?
[08:21:25] <gfixler> I did that kind of thing in Flash Actionscript all the time
[08:21:36] <gfixler> I work for a small LA-based video game company
[08:21:58] <dan_the_welder> flash games?
[08:22:10] <dan_the_welder> for phones or the web
[08:22:22] <gfixler> no, games for consoles and the PC
[08:22:26] <gfixler> and some handhelds
[08:22:33] <dan_the_welder> cool stuff
[08:22:34] <gfixler> we did do a phone game once for Jamdat, but I wasn't on that one
[08:22:58] <dan_the_welder> I did not realize they used flash for tose
[08:23:01] <dan_the_welder> those
[08:23:07] <gfixler> I've made stuff for Gamecube, Xbox, PS1, PS2, and PSP
[08:23:11] <gfixler> oh, those aren't flash
[08:23:15] <gfixler> the flash stuff was a hobby
[08:23:21] <dan_the_welder> fancy game engines
[08:23:24] <gfixler> yeah
[08:23:28] <dan_the_welder> ahh
[08:23:44] <gfixler> or more accurately, crappy, annoying game engines with which we do battle all day every day
[08:23:53] <dan_the_welder> ha ha
[08:23:53] <gfixler> :)
[08:24:05] <gfixler> games are a bit less fun on the making side
[08:24:19] <gfixler> I find that's true with anything wherein I have real responsibilities, though
[08:24:28] <dan_the_welder> I bet
[08:24:38] <gfixler> for example, making a game is fun, and playing a game is fun
[08:24:47] <gfixler> making a game for a company is work, and play-testing a game for a company is also work
[08:25:20] <gfixler> it's opened my eyes, though, and actually helped me become content, and more happy
[08:25:28] <dan_the_welder> yeah, i love building stuff and I love getting paid, but building stuff for money gets me down, but since thats how I make my living........
[08:25:43] <dan_the_welder> how old are you?
[08:25:46] <gfixler> I recall years ago in another deadline crunch there at 2AM again thinking "I'm in video games... why does this suck?"
[08:25:52] <gfixler> then I finally learned the secret
[08:25:57] <gfixler> ANYthing can suck
[08:26:14] <dan_the_welder> it's all in your head
[08:26:21] <gfixler> overall I enjoy what I do, so I'm happy to leave it there and not wish to be, say, a racecar driver
[08:26:21] <dan_the_welder> how you percieve it?
[08:26:24] <gfixler> yeah
[08:26:34] <gfixler> I'm 31
[08:26:36] <gfixler> you?
[08:26:44] <dan_the_welder> I'm 40
[08:26:55] <gfixler> 40 feels very near these days
[08:27:03] <gfixler> I keep looking up from my desk and realizing it's my birthday
[08:27:08] <gfixler> they keep happening
[08:27:16] <dan_the_welder> getting your head around your life is the job that never stops.
[08:27:26] <dan_the_welder> but its the only worthwhile one
[08:27:36] <gfixler> I think we all have something, or some things that are our real dream thing to do
[08:27:48] <gfixler> several guys I work with seem in the right place
[08:27:53] <dan_the_welder> 40 feels like 30 but smarter.
[08:27:53] <gfixler> they eat sleep and breathe games
[08:27:56] <gfixler> :)
[08:27:58] <gfixler> I bet!
[08:28:04] <gfixler> for me, I like making
[08:28:11] <gfixler> that's why games is fine for now - I get to make stuff
[08:28:19] <gfixler> but I love making real things more and more, as I did when younger
[08:28:21] <dan_the_welder> yeah, I look back and think, "god what a dumbass I was"
[08:28:23] <gfixler> I'm building up a woodshop
[08:28:28] <gfixler> and I have a mini machine shop in my office
[08:28:32] <gfixler> mini mill and mini lathe
[08:28:38] <gfixler> haha
[08:28:51] <gfixler> I've noticed that each year I realize I'm a lot smarter than the previous year
[08:28:59] <gfixler> and also each year I feel supremely smart
[08:29:04] <gfixler> like I've learned, and know everything
[08:29:11] <gfixler> one of these must be incorrect :)
[08:29:20] <dan_the_welder> well, I make bicycles for a living and own my local coffee shop. I'm never bored.
[08:29:30] <gfixler> that's awesome
[08:29:38] <gfixler> so two businesses?
[08:30:05] <dan_the_welder> I just get really stressed out and start to hate it all, then my friends are like, gad you have it made.
[08:30:23] <gfixler> haha
[08:30:26] <gfixler> yeah, really
[08:30:30] <dan_the_welder> then I remember that I do and chill out a bit. Yes two buisnesses
[08:30:38] <gfixler> I would love to have my own business with a very low number of employees who are also friends, inventing and making things to sell
[08:30:47] <gfixler> but I absolutely do not have the personal maturity for it
[08:30:56] <anonimasu> morning
[08:31:03] <gfixler> morning anonimasu
[08:31:12] <gfixler> you must be in Europe
[08:31:13] <dan_the_welder> slide into it, take it a step at a time and you will be there before you know it
[08:31:18] <dan_the_welder> good morning
[08:31:25] <gfixler> I'm in LA in the US - it's 1:30AM here
[08:31:33] <gfixler> good call, dan
[08:31:41] <gfixler> I feel like each year I'm improving a bit
[08:31:43] <dan_the_welder> I am in Florida, 4.30 am
[08:31:49] <gfixler> nice
[08:31:50] <gfixler> I miss FL
[08:32:00] <dan_the_welder> I'm in Tallahassee
[08:32:08] <gfixler> any trouble with the storms recently?
[08:32:19] <dan_the_welder> nah, all rolled by
[08:32:23] <gfixler> cool
[08:32:26] <gfixler> got my bachelor's in Sarasota
[08:32:33] <dan_the_welder> New College?
[08:32:41] <gfixler> not far away
[08:32:42] <gfixler> Ringling
[08:32:46] <dan_the_welder> Wow
[08:32:57] <gfixler> that was back around 2000
[08:33:16] <gfixler> it's changed radically since
[08:33:25] <dan_the_welder> Ahm in Nole country up heah
[08:33:33] <gfixler> hehe
[08:33:40] <dan_the_welder> I have not been down there in years
[08:33:58] <dan_the_welder> Florida grows every second. It's crazy
[08:34:03] <gfixler> that's true
[08:34:11] <dan_the_welder> it's like.........cancer
[08:34:14] <gfixler> ha
[08:34:19] <gfixler> it absorbs America's old folks
[08:34:19] <dan_the_welder> unchecked groths
[08:34:36] <gfixler> but yeah, I remember driving all around seeing construction constantly for years
[08:34:50] <gfixler> that's all they do there is build more huge gated communities
[08:34:55] <gfixler> condos and such
[08:35:06] <dan_the_welder> not just old folks, heating bills drive the southern migration for younger people too.
[08:35:10] <gfixler> I probably wouldn't recognize a lot now
[08:35:21] <gfixler> interesting
[08:35:27] <gfixler> I forgot it costs a lot more to heat than to cool
[08:36:13] <dan_the_welder> I used to live in Boston, last year I lived there I spent 3000$ on heating, oil was 69cents a gallon, can you imagine what it is now?
[08:36:29] <gfixler> WOW
[08:36:32] <gfixler> I had no idea
[08:36:56] <gfixler> that's a whole new mini mill and mini lathe with CNC motors thrown in
[08:37:03] <dan_the_welder> I had a big leaky warehouse, but still
[08:37:10] <gfixler> (I relate all costs of things to what tools I could have bought instead)
[08:37:16] <dan_the_welder> for real
[08:37:21] <gfixler> warehouse for making bikes?
[08:37:34] <dan_the_welder> toools tools tools, I love tools
[08:37:42] <gfixler> I'm kind of addicted now
[08:37:46] <gfixler> have you ever heard of Rockler?
[08:38:12] <gfixler> hands down my favorite quality woodworker's store http://www.rockler.com/
[08:38:23] <gfixler> highest signal-to-noise ratio for me of any store ever
[08:38:39] <gfixler> I seriously want something like 80% of all of their merchandise
[08:38:52] <gfixler> Home Depot is somewhere around 20% :)
[08:39:04] <gfixler> and now I've found that I can get to a Rockler store - a real one - in 25 minutes
[08:39:06] <gfixler> I've been 2x
[08:39:11] <gfixler> and spent almost $500 total
[08:39:14] <gfixler> it's bad news for me
[08:39:51] <gfixler> the staff is overly friendly, and secretly alerts me of things in my stash that will be on sale soon, or that an alternative in the store is better, and cheaper
[08:40:13] <gfixler> when I called once with a question, a real person picked up during the first ring, and had a solid answer for me, wishing me well, and hanging up in under 1 minute
[08:40:27] <gfixler> and the sales are outstanding - they regularly drop prices on things I want by 50% or more
[08:40:37] <gfixler> I wish every store were like them
[08:40:42] <gfixler> but then I'd really be poor
[08:41:07] <dan_the_welder> hah, I am an ebay whore
[08:41:20] <gfixler> good place for stock
[08:41:30] <dan_the_welder> I have this huge pile of steppers and drives and linear motion
[08:41:34] <gfixler> 80/20 Inc., et al
[08:41:36] <dan_the_welder> it's gross
[08:41:44] <gfixler> well, you like to build machines
[08:41:54] <gfixler> I have a small pile mysel
[08:41:54] <gfixler> f
[08:42:00] <dan_the_welder> omg I just bought 800$ worth of 80/20 for my new project
[08:42:04] <gfixler> including a box of 50 new Vexta steppers - all identical
[08:42:07] <gfixler> haha
[08:42:10] <gfixler> awesome
[08:42:16] <dan_the_welder> and.I.need.more.
[08:42:23] <dan_the_welder> muahahahahahaaha
[08:42:33] <gfixler> I also grabbed some extremely precise linear actuators from either electronics goldmine, or all electronics
[08:42:39] <dan_the_welder> 50 steppers....you win
[08:42:44] <gfixler> they're all small
[08:42:51] <gfixler> but it was absurd
[08:43:03] <gfixler> I've used maybe 2 in about 5 years now
[08:43:15] <gfixler> I've always loved having several of the same stepper
[08:43:21] <gfixler> because then they move the same way in all directions
[08:43:32] <gfixler> as a high school kid, it was really hard for me to find steppers
[08:43:37] <gfixler> I had to drag them out of printers and the like
[08:43:39] <gfixler> often not the same
[08:43:49] <gfixler> so I developed some kind of fetish for finding matched pairs (or more) of steppers
[08:43:54] <gfixler> when I saw 50 new in a box, I almost fainted
[08:44:00] <gfixler> and pulled out my debit card
[08:44:20] <gfixler> now I have all manner of resources for getting them, but the love remains
[08:45:03] <dan_the_welder> I know right, I bought 21 8051 single board computers for 10bucks....how could I resist?
[08:45:17] <gfixler> haha
[08:45:19] <gfixler> no one understands
[08:45:27] <dan_the_welder> 30 12" linear slides for 50$
[08:45:34] <gfixler> not bad
[08:45:36] <dan_the_welder> it's better than gold
[08:45:40] <gfixler> wormscrew?
[08:45:48] <dan_the_welder> just slides
[08:45:54] <gfixler> oh, no actuators?
[08:46:03] <gfixler> just true linear motion
[08:46:07] <dan_the_welder> I always seem to have to buy the powertransmission stuff new
[08:46:15] <gfixler> nice
[08:46:27] <gfixler> the motion control love for me started my last year of high school
[08:46:33] <gfixler> I designed a plotter printer I wanted to build
[08:46:41] <dan_the_welder> cool
[08:46:45] <gfixler> I had so many blueprints, and 3-point perspective drawings
[08:46:51] <gfixler> but limited tools with which to build it
[08:46:54] <dan_the_welder> I was welding a gocart
[08:46:57] <gfixler> small makita table saw
[08:47:06] <gfixler> the gear train was the hardest part
[08:47:17] <gfixler> finally found out that lego technic gears were pretty good for my needs
[08:47:20] <gfixler> if a little sloppy
[08:47:29] <gfixler> I didn't know what backlash was, but I could see it, and I didn't like it
[08:47:36] <dan_the_welder> people make crazy stuff from that lego
[08:47:39] <gfixler> hehe
[08:47:43] <gfixler> well, the gears and rods were it
[08:47:46] <gfixler> the rest was homebrew
[08:47:48] <gfixler> plywood
[08:47:49] <gfixler> screws
[08:48:01] <gfixler> 1/4" rod fit in wooden blocks for the slides
[08:48:06] <dan_the_welder> that mindstorm stuff would have been mine if it existed back in the day
[08:48:21] <gfixler> with - and this is horrible - the brass wheels from rope pulleys riding on them
[08:48:27] <dan_the_welder> whatever works and then you refine
[08:48:31] <gfixler> yeah
[08:48:36] <gfixler> I was terrible at refinement back then
[08:48:40] <gfixler> almost spoiled about it
[08:48:48] <gfixler> if it didn't work right away, I gave up in frustration
[08:49:02] <gfixler> the best part was the pen holder
[08:49:16] <gfixler> I designed it all out, and then cut out plastic plate panels, taping them all together
[08:49:24] <gfixler> and then poured resin into that to mold the part
[08:49:45] <gfixler> I had previously figured out the electronics for getting Qbasic to read and write stuff through the parallel lport
[08:50:00] <gfixler> spent 2 months with a multimeter testing port commands and keeping a list of which color wires did what
[08:50:10] <gfixler> then afterwards found that the list was in the back of the printer manual
[08:50:17] <gfixler> at least I worked out the same list :)
[08:50:19] <dan_the_welder> oh, burn
[08:50:21] <gfixler> haha
[08:50:22] <gfixler> yeah
[08:50:25] <gfixler> 25 wires
[08:50:27] <gfixler> tons of testing
[08:50:30] <gfixler> lots of dead ends
[08:50:39] <gfixler> I knew nothing of parallel ports then
[08:50:47] <gfixler> just that when I called a port command it would do 'something'
[08:50:52] <gfixler> so I explored
[08:50:55] <gfixler> and documented
[08:51:05] <gfixler> in the resin part were all the electronics
[08:51:19] <gfixler> a DB-9 plug flush in the top for connecting up the parallel port cable later
[08:51:35] <dan_the_welder> i knew nothing of parallel ports untill last january
[08:51:37] <gfixler> a little LED and photodiode in a resin arm that stuck out for detecting the edges of a paper
[08:51:46] <gfixler> well, I would still say I'm pretty dumb about them
[08:51:54] <gfixler> I wanted to use it as a scanner, too
[08:52:00] <gfixler> scan in crude black and white stuff
[08:52:11] <gfixler> the table was to be black, so it could go around and find the edges
[08:52:11] <dan_the_welder> ah, thats why we have the smart EMC guys to figure it out for us.
[08:52:20] <gfixler> even of weird paper, or crooked stuff
[08:52:24] <gfixler> it just never happened
[08:52:30] <gfixler> summer ended
[08:52:34] <gfixler> had to go to college
[08:52:37] <dan_the_welder> at least you learned stuff
[08:52:40] <gfixler> yeah
[08:52:46] <gfixler> but it was like the millionth unfinish project
[08:52:48] <gfixler> very disheartening
[08:52:51] <dan_the_welder> hahahahahaha
[08:52:54] <gfixler> :)
[08:53:00] <gfixler> I have a trail of them behind me
[08:53:07] <dan_the_welder> I have a 3000 square foot shop
[08:53:10] <gfixler> my slaughtered victims
[08:53:13] <dan_the_welder> full of crap
[08:53:18] <gfixler> I am extremely jealous
[08:53:24] <dan_the_welder> plus what I use for work
[08:53:29] <gfixler> I am in a rental with a one-car garage
[08:53:33] <gfixler> do you have any floor space left?
[08:53:38] <dan_the_welder> and a 40 container in the yard for deep storage
[08:53:41] <dan_the_welder> no
[08:53:48] <gfixler> haha
[08:54:00] <dan_the_welder> I mean I actually work out here,
[08:54:08] <gfixler> I'm currently building a wood storage shed, because I can't even store 2x4s and small sheet lumber in the garage anymore
[08:54:13] <dan_the_welder> so there are real tools
[08:54:17] <gfixler> ah, right
[08:54:27] <gfixler> it's all metal tools?
[08:54:44] <gfixler> man, that's such a big shop
[08:54:49] <gfixler> to me
[08:54:53] <fragalot> what is? :p
[08:54:53] <dan_the_welder> but the projects....semifunctional cnc machines actually, are eating the shop
[08:55:07] <gfixler> I have <400sq. ft. of room
[08:55:12] <gfixler> hmm
[08:55:18] <gfixler> maybe get one of those POD storage things
[08:55:22] <gfixler> put it outside
[08:55:54] <dan_the_welder> yup, couple of welders, blast cabinet (big). paint room, assembly area, my jigs take up alot of space. and I live here
[08:55:56] <fragalot> gfixler: the space i'm working in is like 36sqft
[08:56:01] <dan_the_welder> wow
[08:56:09] <gfixler> how do you do it?
[08:56:16] <gfixler> do you hang from the ceiling?
[08:56:18] <dan_the_welder> do what?
[08:56:20] <fragalot> most space is taken away by my desk and bed.. :p
[08:56:23] <gfixler> ah
[08:56:26] <gfixler> mini machine?
[08:56:34] <fragalot> working on that, yes
[08:56:38] <gfixler> tell me you fit a knee mill in there :)
[08:56:44] <fragalot> 30x30"
[08:57:00] <gfixler> that's pretty big
[08:57:06] <fragalot> footprint. :p
[08:57:12] <gfixler> hmm
[08:57:34] <gfixler> mine's 18"x18"
[08:57:36] <gfixler> Sherline mini mill
[08:57:42] <gfixler> it's like a glorified sewing machine
[08:57:50] <fragalot> mine (will be) DIY MDF :p
[08:58:16] <fragalot> it should have a 10" X, 14" Y and 4" Z axis
[08:58:41] <dan_the_welder> cool, wood and plastic cutting?
[08:58:53] <fragalot> expecting 60"/min speeds,.. Not that I'll run it at that rate..
[08:58:59] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: Yeah :)
[08:59:06] <dan_the_welder> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37510
[08:59:15] <fragalot> it's mainly going to be an oversized PCB engraver xD
[08:59:22] <dan_the_welder> thats my big router 48 X 96
[08:59:30] <fragalot> nice
[08:59:37] <fragalot> looks expensive.
[08:59:52] <dan_the_welder> it cost about 2000 all told i think
[09:00:05] <dan_the_welder> took a few months
[09:00:13] <fragalot> to me, that is expensive,.. but seeing it's that big, that's really not a bad deal
[09:00:20] <dan_the_welder> lots of ebay scores
[09:00:26] <dan_the_welder> a little at a time,
[09:00:54] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vc3Fq/FCKBMSHF3HY3SK9.MEDIUM.jpg <-- that's what I'm aiming for.
[09:00:59] <dan_the_welder> bought some steel, welded it up, thought for awhile, got a drive and ebay
[09:01:17] <dan_the_welder> so it's two grand but it was just a little at a time
[09:01:33] <fragalot> so basically it was a hell of a lot more, but you don't wanna mention that? :p
[09:01:45] <fragalot> how accurate/fast is it?
[09:02:01] <fragalot> also,.. Where did you buy the alu frame thingies?
[09:02:30] <dan_the_welder> I ended up with 'extra' stuff :) for sure
[09:02:38] <gfixler> that seems affordable to me
[09:02:39] <dan_the_welder> the 80/20 ?
[09:02:45] <fragalot> oh, k
[09:02:47] <gfixler> the mini mill was about $1k after extras
[09:02:51] <dan_the_welder> all from 80/20 surplus on ebay
[09:02:54] <fragalot> nice
[09:02:57] <gfixler> and then I got the mini lathe
[09:03:01] <gfixler> about $800, IIRC
[09:03:16] <gfixler> I just got a killer router table recently
[09:03:23] <gfixler> that cost about as much as both of those!
[09:03:34] <fragalot> lol
[09:03:45] <gfixler> having many hobbies is much worse
[09:03:54] <gfixler> I have to think about which hobby deserves the next tool :)
[09:03:55] <fragalot> sofar, i've only made the controller for 3 axis, and i'm at $90 including the PSU.
[09:04:03] <fragalot> gfixler: same
[09:04:08] <fragalot> either the CNC, or new welding gear
[09:04:10] <gfixler> that's admirable, making your own controller
[09:04:19] <gfixler> I rolled up my sleeves years back to do that, and quickly said forget it
[09:04:37] <gfixler> I love making things of all kinds, so almost any kind of tool is ripe for the plucking
[09:04:49] <gfixler> right now I have the two mini machines, but I'm also building up a big woodshop
[09:04:54] <fragalot> gfixler: I designed it, looked at it,;.. said, .. sod it I'll just go with the pminmo controller,.. which is just DIY but the PCB is already designed :p
[09:04:54] <gfixler> and would love to get into welding
[09:05:05] <gfixler> ah, that's a lot better
[09:05:06] <fragalot> welding in a woodshop
[09:05:08] <fragalot> sounds like fun
[09:05:11] <gfixler> hehe
[09:05:12] <dan_the_welder> I like building the machines the best
[09:05:16] <gfixler> problem is I'm almost entirely out of room
[09:05:21] <gfixler> hehe
[09:05:27] <gfixler> on computers I like making tools
[09:05:34] <gfixler> but in the real world I seem to just want to buy tools and make things
[09:05:44] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: where do you live?
[09:06:04] <fragalot> gfixler: lol
[09:06:06] <dan_the_welder> it's what we do, make tools. it makes you a human
[09:06:11] <dan_the_welder> florida
[09:06:13] <fragalot> I just,.. love to keep busy
[09:06:22] <gfixler> wow, a torch table!
[09:06:27] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: mm, too far. :p would 've asked if you wanted to cut the parts for my lil' machine out ;)
[09:06:30] <gfixler> I've only used an oxy/acetylene once
[09:06:32] <gfixler> by hand
[09:06:34] <gfixler> at Ringling
[09:06:38] <gfixler> I made a steel drum
[09:06:45] <dan_the_welder> noisy
[09:06:46] <fragalot> where did the "torch" table come from?
[09:06:54] <gfixler> had to go to Scrap All to get a drum of questionable original purposes
[09:07:04] <fragalot> lol
[09:07:12] <gfixler> cut it in the welding shop at school
[09:07:17] <dan_the_welder> i don't understand fragalot?
[09:07:18] <gfixler> then ground the edges
[09:07:25] <gfixler> working with metal is so hot and loud
[09:07:32] <gfixler> that's my other problem in LA
[09:07:37] <gfixler> 3 neighbors right on top of me
[09:07:44] <gfixler> I always have to give up working at 8PM
[09:07:50] <gfixler> when I have at least 5 more hours in me
[09:07:52] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I'm not exactly looking forward to cutting up a 48x48" slab of MDF by hand, cutting out the lil' pieces for my DIY machine,.. your table looks big enough :p
[09:08:02] <gfixler> ha
[09:08:09] <gfixler> wouldn't that just ignite the mdf?
[09:08:22] <fragalot> gfixler: you /SHOULD/ be allowed to work till 10pm before they are ven allowed to complain here
[09:08:28] <gfixler> really?
[09:08:35] <fragalot> gfixler: his machine looks like a router to me,...
[09:08:43] <gfixler> oh, I'm looking at the oxy machine
[09:08:46] <fragalot> also, you can cut MDF with a laser easilly,.. Haven't tried a torch yet
[09:08:46] <fragalot> :p
[09:09:07] <gfixler> maybe if you just hit it with a fire extinguisher the entire time
[09:09:21] <gfixler> Dan, that table is awesome
[09:10:20] <fragalot> it is.
[09:10:28] <dan_the_welder> thanks, it's a router, I was gonna make it into a plasma, but have not been able to afford one
[09:11:09] <dan_the_welder> it works ok, a bit of flex on the Z, very unconventional linear motion
[09:11:15] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: just find a compressor, and plasma nozzle,.. then hook that up to your welding gera :p
[09:11:23] <dan_the_welder> ha I wish
[09:11:39] <fragalot> lol
[09:11:42] <gfixler> I've got a little produced video of my lathe and mill making an adapter if you guys want to see it
[09:11:49] <fragalot> ofcourse.
[09:11:55] <fragalot> aslong as it's not cellphone youtube quality
[09:12:05] <gfixler> no, it's pretty pro :)
[09:12:08] <gfixler> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI9_q2Y59_I
[09:12:09] <fragalot> Sweet.
[09:12:10] <dan_the_welder> hell yeah, if it's on the net I may have aleady sen it
[09:12:14] <gfixler> edited it all with textovers and such
[09:12:32] <gfixler> it's a bit long
[09:12:37] <gfixler> probably enjoying the process too much
[09:13:05] <fragalot> niec
[09:13:16] <fragalot> are those the rapids you get from a sherline?
[09:13:23] <gfixler> so far
[09:13:30] <gfixler> well, it can go a bit faster
[09:13:33] <gfixler> but I don't like to push
[09:13:37] <fragalot> I'd have expected it to be faster,.. giving their price :p
[09:13:40] <gfixler> it's a really light-duty machine
[09:13:48] <gfixler> I've never gotten emc set up right
[09:13:51] <gfixler> that's where I am yet again now
[09:13:53] <fragalot> hehe
[09:13:57] <gfixler> after upgrading to 8.04
[09:14:03] <gfixler> I did just get an email from someone on the list
[09:14:08] <gfixler> seems my mail did make it through
[09:14:11] <gfixler> though I don't see it
[09:14:23] <gfixler> looks like my biggest problem is the nvidia driver
[09:15:24] <fragalot> lol "kids don't reach in like that"
[09:15:39] <gfixler> hehe
[09:15:45] <gfixler> I don't want to be liable
[09:16:08] <fragalot> and there comem the scissors
[09:16:43] <gfixler> yeah, I can never just leave the machine alone
[09:16:53] <gfixler> I'm always watching over everything like a hawk
[09:16:58] <fragalot> :p
[09:17:04] <gfixler> that's probably why I got months between operations
[09:17:15] <fragalot> thihi, you screwed up
[09:17:16] <gfixler> don't want to sit there for 2 hours while it slowly peels away 0.002" at a time
[09:17:16] <fragalot> :p
[09:17:23] <gfixler> I did leave it once
[09:17:26] <gfixler> the last time I used it
[09:17:33] <gfixler> I had upped it to about 0.004-0.005" passes
[09:17:40] <gfixler> broke the 1/8" bit at 2800 RPMs
[09:17:53] <fragalot> :/
[09:17:55] <gfixler> it broke diagonally, so it was bouncing up and down on the broken piece jammed in the aluminum
[09:18:02] <gfixler> the whole thing was jackhammering all around the table
[09:18:07] <fragalot> ouch :p
[09:18:08] <gfixler> while i was freaking out trying to stop it all
[09:18:21] <gfixler> then I just turned everything off and went and watched TV in disgust
[09:18:29] <gfixler> it was the best aligned I'd ever gotten a part
[09:18:43] <gfixler> not only aligned, but absolutely 0 movement of the dial test indicator needle
[09:18:49] <gfixler> across about 4" of the edge
[09:18:51] <fragalot> xD
[09:19:00] <gfixler> there's always the barest, almost inperceptable movement
[09:19:06] <gfixler> this was dead still the whole way
[09:19:08] <fragalot> lol @ 6:50
[09:19:15] <gfixler> is that the boring tool?
[09:19:21] <fragalot> yes
[09:19:23] <gfixler> :(
[09:19:27] <gfixler> man, did I feel like an idiot
[09:19:44] <fragalot> :p
[09:19:45] <gfixler> I didn't realize they were only for sizing existing holes
[09:19:47] <gfixler> too eager
[09:20:02] <fragalot> if you did it slower, you might ahve pulled it off :p
[09:20:49] <gfixler> heheh
[09:20:55] <gfixler> I haven't used that tool since
[09:21:03] <gfixler> turns out how it's supposed to be used isn't all that useful to me
[09:21:08] <fragalot> I only just noticed this, but your locline things appear to suck instead of blow? o.0
[09:21:13] <dan_the_welder> nice vid, I ve seen it before, i think I have watched every one on youtube tagged emc
[09:21:13] <fragalot> never seen that before :p
[09:21:14] <gfixler> yep
[09:21:16] <gfixler> they're vacuums
[09:21:32] <gfixler> I shave off such a little bit - powder, basically - that it works fantastically well
[09:21:46] <gfixler> the thing I'm making there is the adapter for the log-line manifold
[09:21:52] <fragalot> cool
[09:21:53] <gfixler> which I made out of 1" aluminum square tubing
[09:21:59] <gfixler> and a big tap
[09:22:24] <fragalot> normally when i see those things it's either blowing air at an insane pressure, or shooting water out that you could almost use it as a water jet :p
[09:22:31] <gfixler> yep
[09:22:38] <gfixler> I'm a non-conformist
[09:22:50] <gfixler> originally I wanted an air/fluid line
[09:23:02] <fragalot> I've installed a nice new system in one of the machines (5axis mill) at my summer job last night
[09:23:07] <gfixler> then one day while spec'ing all of that out, it occurred to me that it was just going to blow crap all over my office
[09:23:08] <dan_the_welder> then you had a eureka
[09:23:13] <gfixler> yep
[09:23:18] <gfixler> this thing is in my house
[09:23:19] <gfixler> in my office
[09:23:22] <fragalot> instead of just spraying the parts, basically theres enough water to make the whole compartiment flood (not literally)
[09:23:24] <gfixler> it's right behind me now
[09:23:44] <gfixler> cool
[09:23:45] <fragalot> its' like 3 giant waterfalls, one over the table, and 2 next to the table, picking up shrapnell
[09:23:51] <gfixler> yeah
[09:23:53] <dan_the_welder> you should reach out and pat it, it knows you are talking about it
[09:24:02] <fragalot> no more cleaning the machine out everytime you use it rules
[09:24:06] <gfixler> after setting up the Loc-Lines, I started seeing them everywhere
[09:24:19] <gfixler> on the Science Channel, Discovery, How It's Made, etc
[09:24:23] <gfixler> everyone uses those things
[09:24:23] <fragalot> haha
[09:24:32] <fragalot> they are a pain to assemble if you don't have the tools for it tho :/
[09:24:38] <gfixler> amen
[09:24:41] <fragalot> hurt my thumbs real bad on those once
[09:24:44] <gfixler> ha
[09:24:45] <gfixler> me too
[09:24:50] <dan_the_welder> they are a smart piece of technology, expensive too
[09:24:54] <fragalot> well.. "once",.. one day,.. multiple times.
[09:25:00] <gfixler> there's a little machine shop down the street from me
[09:25:04] <gfixler> but they're mostly a supplier
[09:25:08] <gfixler> they help companies source parts
[09:25:16] <gfixler> so the front of the store - tiny - has ancient stuff
[09:25:18] <gfixler> all covered in dust
[09:25:21] <gfixler> that's where I found them
[09:25:24] <fragalot> lol
[09:25:25] <gfixler> they had 3 of the hose I wanted
[09:25:27] <gfixler> I wanted 4
[09:25:30] <gfixler> still have only 3 :)
[09:25:35] <gfixler> they never get new inventory
[09:25:43] <fragalot> put some fish tank tubing on there.
[09:25:45] <fragalot> :p
[09:25:48] <gfixler> the spot they were in when I bought them out months ago is still empty
[09:25:49] <gfixler> hahaha
[09:25:54] <gfixler> I actually have a ton of that stuff
[09:26:01] <dan_the_welder> I saw some 1.5 inch diameter ones in a video of a clay cutting 5 axis thing carving a car body
[09:26:02] <gfixler> because I'm also slowly putting together a home anodizing line
[09:26:05] <gfixler> 2-gal setup
[09:26:10] <gfixler> yet another project
[09:26:11] <dan_the_welder> cool
[09:26:19] <gfixler> I saw that one, Dan
[09:26:21] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: those are easier to assemble,.. I used those where the lines split to keep the flow up
[09:26:22] <gfixler> on YouTube
[09:26:29] <dan_the_welder> I have a powercoating setup
[09:26:35] <gfixler> didn't notice the loc-lines in it, though
[09:26:40] <gfixler> nice
[09:26:41] <fragalot> I should probably get a picture of that machine next time I go there
[09:26:50] <dan_the_welder> I powdercoat everthing that fits in my oven
[09:26:54] <gfixler> I was considering using the woodshop to build a little blasting cabinet
[09:27:03] <gfixler> how big is the oven?
[09:27:05] <dan_the_welder> my blast cabinet is plywood
[09:27:14] <gfixler> yeah, that's all I was thinking
[09:27:16] <fragalot> blasting is overrated :p I just toss it into a drum with lil' stone pellets in it
[09:27:20] <gfixler> there's not much to them
[09:27:24] <gfixler> :)
[09:27:30] <dan_the_welder> 48 x48 x 96
[09:27:31] <gfixler> I picked up a vibratory tumbler
[09:27:33] <fragalot> then curse myself for doing so when the pellets get stuck inside the work piece
[09:27:36] <gfixler> part of the anodizing dream
[09:27:41] <gfixler> haha
[09:28:00] <dan_the_welder> blasting is important for powder, it's all about the "tooth"
[09:28:21] <fragalot> now, who'll help me clean my room? o.0
[09:28:26] <gfixler> what do you use to blast?
[09:28:31] <fragalot> lil' electronic componements laying about,.. everywhere
[09:28:33] <dan_the_welder> you just need some locline in there
[09:28:38] <gfixler> :)
[09:28:48] <gfixler> I have a dream of an XY gantry in my office
[09:28:51] <gfixler> mounted to the ceiling
[09:28:52] <dan_the_welder> nerdcore central vac system
[09:28:55] <gfixler> so 2 rails down the long walls
[09:28:59] <gfixler> one rail between
[09:29:05] <gfixler> controlled by a PC
[09:29:10] <gfixler> I'd have a robot arm on there
[09:29:12] <gfixler> it would clean up for me
[09:29:14] <dan_the_welder> your chair on the gantry
[09:29:17] <gfixler> hahaha
[09:29:22] <gfixler> that would be so sweet
[09:29:29] <fragalot> gfixler: done that, controlled by hand,.. forgot it needed brakes,.. so we ended up opening the rest of the wall up too and adding a lil' shed
[09:29:30] <fragalot> xD
[09:29:31] <dan_the_welder> flying around the shop like the dude in road warrior!
[09:29:36] <gfixler> wow!
[09:29:42] <fragalot> (kidding)
[09:29:46] <gfixler> hahaa
[09:29:47] <gfixler> gotme
[09:29:49] <fragalot> :D
[09:29:54] <gfixler> actually, I've wanted also to put a control rig on there for my little point and shoot camera
[09:30:07] <gfixler> make things like music videos with flying camera moves and multiple me's in the shots
[09:30:14] <fragalot> lol
[09:30:21] <gfixler> by shooting several times along the same flight paths
[09:30:24] <gfixler> compositing later
[09:30:29] <dan_the_welder> have you seen the flying ghost controlled by emc?
[09:30:35] <gfixler> no!
[09:30:40] <dan_the_welder> three wires, weird kinematics
[09:30:42] <gfixler> I thought I could teach a robot arm where certain things went
[09:30:47] <gfixler> then just hand the bot things
[09:30:53] <gfixler> maybe some kind of sensor that tells what it's been given
[09:30:55] <fragalot> lol gfixler
[09:30:58] <gfixler> and it goes and puts it on the right shelf for me
[09:31:09] <dan_the_welder> i think they use something like that for superbowl cameras
[09:31:15] <gfixler> then I could also eventually be like "Roboarm... scalpel."
[09:31:21] <gfixler> *hands me scalpel*
[09:31:27] <dan_the_welder> rfid tags on everthing
[09:31:34] <gfixler> cool
[09:31:45] <gfixler> maybe that's how that flying cam stays right over the action
[09:31:54] <dan_the_welder> robot 'sandwich'
[09:32:01] <gfixler> :)
[09:32:09] <dan_the_welder> robot 'beer me'
[09:32:11] <fragalot> lol.
[09:32:17] <gfixler> "Robot, attack intruder!"
[09:32:24] <fragalot> unless if the robot can open the beer too, ....
[09:32:28] <gfixler> that guy didn't even know who he was messing with
[09:32:33] <fragalot> but then it might get too smart and drink it on it's own
[09:32:34] <fragalot> :o
[09:32:39] <gfixler> it could open the beer by crushing it
[09:32:44] <dan_the_welder> :)
[09:32:48] <gfixler> yeah
[09:32:51] <gfixler> you'd have to be polite
[09:32:52] <dan_the_welder> it could use the scalpel
[09:32:56] <gfixler> or it would pour it on you, or your computer
[09:33:03] <gfixler> okay, no sentience
[09:33:06] <gfixler> first rule
[09:33:11] <dan_the_welder> i hate petulat robots
[09:33:17] <dan_the_welder> petulant
[09:34:17] <gfixler> I'm glad to talk with people who do this kind of stuff
[09:34:24] <fragalot> wanna know the best part about my lil' plans for my machine? after I build it, i'll use it to rebuild itself,.. with more accurate parts, and re-do the PCB so all 3 controllers are on the same board :p
[09:34:25] <gfixler> literally no one in this area that I know or have met does
[09:34:31] <gfixler> they have no idea what I'm talking about all the time
[09:34:38] <gfixler> yes!
[09:34:41] <gfixler> right on, frag
[09:34:47] <fragalot> it 'l be like stargate's replicators
[09:34:48] <gfixler> that was my dream, too
[09:34:51] <gfixler> but you're actually going to do it
[09:35:07] <gfixler> eventually you'll have a machine that builds up by assembling atoms
[09:35:10] <fragalot> gfixler: :p
[09:35:28] <gfixler> I don't trust those replicators
[09:35:30] <fragalot> re-use the dust, put that in another machine it created that compresses that down to carbide bits
[09:35:37] <gfixler> haha
[09:35:41] <gfixler> I'm all about reuse these days
[09:36:29] <fragalot> I want food
[09:36:30] <fragalot> :/
[09:36:31] <fragalot> bbl
[09:36:36] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157606823191328/
[09:36:38] <gfixler> reuse :)
[09:36:54] <fragalot> not to mention that that looks good too
[09:37:00] <gfixler> thanks
[09:37:03] <gfixler> enjoy the food!
[09:40:08] <fragalot> back
[09:40:10] <fragalot> snot ready yet :p
[09:40:18] <gfixler> haha
[09:40:56] <fragalot> gfixler: http://omploader.org/vczZk
[09:41:12] <fragalot> (the boards aren't ready yet,.. waiting for the high speed diodes to arrive)
[09:41:32] <gfixler> whoa
[09:41:41] <gfixler> do NOT bring that thing on an airplane
[09:41:46] <fragalot> :D
[09:41:51] <gfixler> or to Boston
[09:42:05] <gfixler> under the fans
[09:42:07] <gfixler> are those knobs?
[09:42:16] <gfixler> like volume knobs
[09:42:21] <fragalot> eh?
[09:42:36] <gfixler> they look like little tuning knobs under the fans
[09:42:41] <gfixler> on top of the chips
[09:42:42] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vczZj http://omploader.org/vcnV0
[09:42:45] <fragalot> maybe that's clearer
[09:43:07] <gfixler> oh
[09:43:09] <gfixler> Firefox was shrinking them
[09:43:15] <gfixler> they're screws
[09:43:16] <fragalot> lol.
[09:43:30] <gfixler> I see
[09:43:32] <gfixler> heat sinks
[09:43:42] <fragalot> yep
[09:43:57] <gfixler> I've tried many times since high school back in the early 90s to understand electronics
[09:43:59] <fragalot> like I said, i plan on replacing the 3 seperate ones by one bigger one
[09:43:59] <gfixler> I just never get it
[09:44:06] <gfixler> or rather, I always get it, but wrong
[09:44:11] <fragalot> lol
[09:44:18] <gfixler> "Oh, I get it, so this... nope. Not that."
[09:44:47] <fragalot> trial & error ftw.
[09:45:06] <gfixler> you would think so
[09:45:16] <gfixler> but it seems no matter how many ways I try to think through it, I'm always wrong
[09:45:26] <gfixler> I've even somehow ended up trying the only 2 possibilities, and both have been wrong
[09:45:28] <gfixler> I don't know how
[09:45:35] <dan_the_welder> my buddy is an electronic whiz, he makes me breakout boards and I cnced his mini mill so he could cut pcbs
[09:45:42] <gfixler> that's great
[09:45:48] <dan_the_welder> works out
[09:45:49] <gfixler> my friends are all artists
[09:45:55] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: do that for me too :p
[09:45:58] <gfixler> I'm the techiest of the lot
[09:46:08] <fragalot> all my friends are kindof.. useless,.. all they can do right is soccer
[09:46:09] <fragalot> lol
[09:46:17] <gfixler> hahaha
[09:46:18] <dan_the_welder> haha
[09:46:28] <gfixler> you have to figure out to machine parts through corner kicks!
[09:46:31] <dan_the_welder> how old are you frag?
[09:46:37] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I'm 18.
[09:46:42] <fragalot> 2nd year in uni :D
[09:46:42] <gfixler> ah, lucky
[09:46:47] <gfixler> good times
[09:46:50] <dan_the_welder> lucky?
[09:46:52] <gfixler> I'm 18 in my mind
[09:46:59] <dan_the_welder> are you crazy?
[09:47:01] <fragalot> thats where it counts.
[09:47:05] <gfixler> hahaha
[09:47:09] <dan_the_welder> I am too!
[09:47:14] <fragalot> lol.
[09:47:20] <dan_the_welder> most of my friends are in their 20s
[09:47:27] <gfixler> I turned 18 my second day at college
[09:47:29] <fragalot> I need to find some cheap argon bottles :(
[09:47:33] <gfixler> frag - you in Europe?
[09:47:36] <fragalot> gfixler: Yes.
[09:47:49] <gfixler> nice, Los Angeles for me
[09:47:52] <fragalot> turning 19 next week
[09:47:57] <dan_the_welder> to buy? i have to lease them
[09:48:09] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I want to buy one, leasing costs too much for the times i use it
[09:48:09] <gfixler> fragalot: all downhill from there
[09:48:11] <gfixler> :)
[09:48:11] <dan_the_welder> 60bux a year
[09:48:15] <fragalot> gfixler: :p
[09:48:29] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: more expensive here,.. way more expensive
[09:48:31] <dan_the_welder> you can buy tiny ones but I need the big ones.
[09:48:37] <fragalot> aye
[09:48:41] <fragalot> I only need a little one
[09:48:53] <dan_the_welder> a few years ago, my lease bill was like 800 dollars.
[09:48:57] <fragalot> the welding station I have is an inverter,.. I like to keep it portable
[09:49:30] <fragalot> it's a TIG / SMAW combo
[09:49:34] <dan_the_welder> the guy at the shop had been neglecting to check in my returns and the company thought I had 14 of them
[09:49:40] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: lol!
[09:49:48] <gfixler> hahaha
[09:49:53] <dan_the_welder> it was funny, he soon retired
[09:50:00] <fragalot> oh, I also have a homemade welding station
[09:50:00] <fragalot> :p
[09:50:16] <dan_the_welder> cool, how homemade?
[09:50:18] <fragalot> it's essentially just a bigass coil >.>
[09:50:24] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: very homemade.
[09:50:25] <gfixler> in that 36sq. ft. spot?
[09:50:31] <fragalot> gfixler: hehe, garage
[09:50:37] <gfixler> nice
[09:50:40] <gfixler> 1 or 2 car?
[09:50:49] <fragalot> nfc how big the garage is, but you can easilly put bikes on either sides, and 3 cars infront of eachother
[09:50:51] <dan_the_welder> awesome, I made one from a buck boost transformer once
[09:50:59] <gfixler> oh man
[09:51:00] <dan_the_welder> DIY
[09:51:02] <gfixler> everyone has more workshop than me
[09:51:07] <gfixler> I gotta get out of this town
[09:51:16] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: the one i'm talking about was here when we bought the house
[09:51:18] <gfixler> except that I'm really making that difficult on myself
[09:51:27] <dan_the_welder> free free free
[09:51:38] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: everything on it is self made, even the coils
[09:51:51] <fragalot> bbl, food ready
[09:51:55] <dan_the_welder> thats really cool
[09:52:10] <gfixler> impressive
[09:52:16] <dan_the_welder> what did you use for the core?
[09:53:20] <gfixler> dan - ever had to move all of that stuff?
[09:53:26] <dan_the_welder> frag, do you have pictures of your tiny shop/room?
[09:53:32] <dan_the_welder> ohh yes, it sucked
[09:53:38] <gfixler> paid movers?
[09:53:44] <gfixler> I'm going to run into that in a few years
[09:53:47] <gfixler> I'm renting
[09:53:49] <dan_the_welder> 12 people many loads, but I had less stuff then
[09:53:56] <gfixler> yeah
[09:53:58] <dan_the_welder> I own my building now
[09:54:00] <gfixler> you really have the stuff
[09:54:09] <gfixler> 12 friends, or paid movers?
[09:54:19] <dan_the_welder> so I get big heavy stuff now, I never want to move again
[09:54:21] <dan_the_welder> friends
[09:54:27] <dan_the_welder> pizza, beer
[09:54:32] <gfixler> I don't want to move already
[09:54:38] <gfixler> too much heavy stuff
[09:54:44] <gfixler> and it's a fraction of what you have
[09:54:53] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157605513555152/
[09:54:56] <gfixler> router table
[09:55:26] <dan_the_welder> I looked at your flicker for a bit, you like taking pictures!
[09:55:36] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157605519595533/
[09:55:39] <gfixler> that I do
[09:55:54] <gfixler> what's on Flickr is a small fraction of all that I have locally
[09:56:10] <gfixler> 8,331 on Flickr
[09:56:35] <dan_the_welder> those incras are cool
[09:56:43] <dan_the_welder> mmm box joints
[09:56:55] <dan_the_welder> i was a wood guy for a while
[09:56:59] <gfixler> yeah?
[09:57:03] <gfixler> like metal better?
[09:57:08] <gfixler> for me, wood's just easier
[09:57:15] <gfixler> lighter, cheaper, quieter and cooler to work with
[09:57:17] <gfixler> I like the feel
[09:57:22] <gfixler> it's cleaner, too
[09:57:33] <gfixler> dry dust instead of oil and black soot
[09:57:49] <gfixler> though I still would like to be able to work in metal
[09:57:56] <gfixler> it's stronger, and consistent
[09:58:11] <gfixler> there's an art with wood - having to select the right pieces, watching out for knots and such
[09:58:16] <gfixler> matching grains and colors
[09:58:29] <gfixler> it's kinda fun, but also kind of a pain sometimes
[09:58:44] <dan_the_welder> yeah, i still use wood for furniture , for the human interface part of things, but metal is my thing, I like the permanence.
[09:58:57] <gfixler> right on
[09:59:03] <dan_the_welder> I really like fancy plywood, baltic birch
[09:59:09] <gfixler> me too
[09:59:13] <gfixler> never had any, though
[09:59:21] <gfixler> just crappy Home Depot stuff
[09:59:32] <gfixler> Rockler has beautiful hardwoods
[09:59:49] <gfixler> wenge, bubinga, cocobolo, rosewood, tulipwood, ebony, etc
[09:59:54] <gfixler> gorgeous, but pricey
[10:00:14] <gfixler> I can get an 8' pine 1x8 for about $7-$8 at Home Depot
[10:00:20] <gfixler> birch might be around $15
[10:00:20] <dan_the_welder> after I first got my router running I was using this luan and making really weird and cool stuff, but it was terrible wood
[10:00:26] <gfixler> oak around $20 or so
[10:00:37] <gfixler> the same sized plank of zebrawood at Rockler was $80
[10:00:55] <gfixler> the prices of hardwoods really opened my eyes to why people don't use them, or use veneer over cheaper stuff
[10:00:57] <dan_the_welder> it had all this internal stress it would warp once you cut it and it would burn router bits and then catch fire
[10:01:09] <gfixler> wow
[10:01:10] <dan_the_welder> hardwood is awesome
[10:01:19] <gfixler> I hate lauan
[10:01:23] <dan_the_welder> it sucks
[10:01:26] <dan_the_welder> I know now
[10:01:26] <gfixler> I've never gotten worse splinters from any other kind of wood
[10:01:39] <gfixler> it's like it's made of needles
[10:01:45] <gfixler> it's really just a sheet covering wood
[10:01:51] <dan_the_welder> it has all this silica in it which is why the bits cant take it
[10:01:54] <gfixler> tacked to walls under siding and such
[10:01:58] <gfixler> ah
[10:02:02] <gfixler> it's devil wood
[10:02:11] <gfixler> it's the wood I would give to my enemy
[10:02:43] <dan_the_welder> yup, I used it for the cieling in my apartment and put poly on it and it looks nice there, 10 feet away
[10:03:15] <gfixler> final count - 26,182
[10:03:20] <dan_the_welder> once I get my router running I am going to get some nice ply and try to make some new stuff
[10:03:25] <dan_the_welder> wow
[10:03:34] <gfixler> that's the number of jpgs in my cam folder
[10:03:40] <dan_the_welder> nuts
[10:03:52] <gfixler> some may not be actual photos - mods of others - but that's a very near estimate
[10:04:08] <gfixler> then I have 13 2" photo albums from school
[10:04:14] <gfixler> and about 3 brown bags of photos
[10:04:16] <gfixler> loose
[10:04:22] <gfixler> I like to document :)
[10:04:42] <dan_the_welder> i need some to follow me around with a camera, i make all this stuff but never document it.
[10:04:43] <gfixler> my new beast will help me with metal
[10:04:46] <gfixler> 18" wood/metal band saw
[10:04:50] <gfixler> yeah
[10:04:59] <gfixler> I think the documentation bug is a rare one
[10:05:05] <gfixler> I'm sort of an alien that way
[10:05:18] <dan_the_welder> i wonder
[10:05:20] <gfixler> I have the camera and tripod in the garage with me
[10:05:32] <gfixler> and will stop at key points to set up and take a shot, then get back to work
[10:05:43] <dan_the_welder> without the internet full of documentors i would be fucked
[10:05:50] <gfixler> yeah
[10:05:57] <gfixler> it's been an incredible learning resource
[10:06:11] <dan_the_welder> sci fi come true
[10:06:13] <gfixler> I had terrible troubles with stains recently on a project
[10:06:18] <gfixler> so I hit up YouTube
[10:06:27] <gfixler> and watched a bunch of staining masters talk me through their processes
[10:06:29] <gfixler> learned so much
[10:06:34] <gfixler> it really feels like the Matrix
[10:06:39] <gfixler> "Tank, I need a wood staining program!"
[10:06:49] <dan_the_welder> the things I have learned from youtube is like a whole college degree
[10:06:57] <gfixler> yeah
[10:07:05] <gfixler> and MIT and some others have now started putting up their video lectures
[10:07:10] <gfixler> schools are kind of becoming obsolete
[10:07:19] <gfixler> except as training grounds for office workers
[10:07:20] <gfixler> hehe
[10:07:38] <dan_the_welder> one of my employees told me about that, not videos but MIT courses on line
[10:07:46] <dan_the_welder> i downloaded the python one
[10:07:47] <gfixler> I tried to watch a couple
[10:07:48] <gfixler> way above me
[10:07:58] <anonimasu> hm, Im going to look at physics.
[10:08:08] <anonimasu> it's way above me but it's better to be prepared
[10:08:16] <gfixler> yeah
[10:08:27] <gfixler> wait, prepared for what?
[10:08:34] <gfixler> I want to be, too, if it's something important
[10:08:35] <dan_the_welder> catch some loose haydrons if they come your way, sell them on ebay
[10:08:40] <gfixler> ha
[10:08:45] <gfixler> I went to art school for a computer animation degree, and often feel like it was the slowest learning I've had
[10:08:52] <gfixler> I can learn a ton from the net in less time
[10:09:01] <dan_the_welder> true dat
[10:09:10] <gfixler> the best thing that did for me was introduce me to connections
[10:09:10] <dan_the_welder> it's so much more focused
[10:09:37] <gfixler> my highest paying job I got because the guy in the room next to me in the dorm told them I was good
[10:09:37] <dan_the_welder> i need to know this right now
[10:09:58] <gfixler> hadn't heard from him in several years, but he found me online
[10:10:01] <gfixler> and got me a job
[10:10:06] <dan_the_welder> did you buy him a 6pack?
[10:10:07] <gfixler> at 2x what I had been making
[10:10:13] <gfixler> I bought him a whole dinner
[10:10:19] <dan_the_welder> awesome
[10:10:26] <gfixler> I think a movie, too
[10:10:32] <gfixler> something 3D animated
[10:10:36] <gfixler> because that's what we do
[10:10:41] <dan_the_welder> dude, like a whole date!!!
[10:10:44] <gfixler> haha
[10:10:45] <gfixler> yeah
[10:10:57] <gfixler> during which time he told me all about the troubles with his girlfriend
[10:11:02] <gfixler> so it was like dinner, movie, and therapy
[10:11:08] <dan_the_welder> I guess you saw baowolf
[10:11:17] <gfixler> hmm
[10:11:20] <gfixler> no, it was before that
[10:11:25] <gfixler> around '04
[10:11:28] <dan_the_welder> i mean in general
[10:11:35] <gfixler> oh, actually no
[10:11:39] <gfixler> I'm kind of burned out on 3D :)
[10:11:48] <dan_the_welder> all 3d motion capture
[10:11:52] <gfixler> "Let's go see the new anima" "NO"
[10:11:58] <dan_the_welder> kinda neat, but kinda whatever
[10:12:02] <gfixler> yeah
[10:12:19] <gfixler> school was all about analyzing the hell out of animations
[10:12:24] <gfixler> and the thesis
[10:12:26] <gfixler> that was a year of making a single 30-second animation
[10:12:35] <gfixler> which was continually picked apart by many instructors
[10:12:40] <gfixler> and fellow students
[10:12:54] <gfixler> and work is often about critiquing anims
[10:13:09] <gfixler> studying animations, figuring out how to add more oomph to a movement
[10:13:15] <gfixler> it makes you really hypercritical
[10:13:19] <gfixler> so you go see an animated film
[10:13:23] <gfixler> and it just annoys you the whole time
[10:13:40] <gfixler> that character had terrible weight, this one had incorrect follow-through, everyone's too bouncy, or too floaty
[10:13:43] <gfixler> can't just go enjoy it
[10:13:48] <gfixler> have to break it all apart
[10:14:01] <dan_the_welder> yeah, i deconstruct everything anyway so CG pisses me off most of the time
[10:14:07] <gfixler> haha
[10:14:11] <gfixler> I really loved the Incredibles
[10:14:16] <gfixler> but it was the humor that got me
[10:14:17] <dan_the_welder> did not see it
[10:14:22] <gfixler> not so much the 3D
[10:14:28] <dan_the_welder> I saw the panda movie and I like it
[10:14:44] <gfixler> yeah, that one fell past the line
[10:14:58] <gfixler> I don't think I've seen any 3D stuff since Narnia
[10:15:00] <dan_the_welder> ?
[10:15:03] <gfixler> and that only because a friend worked on it
[10:15:11] <dan_the_welder> ahh obligation
[10:15:11] <gfixler> and she paid for my ticket to see it at the El Cap in Hollywood
[10:15:23] <dan_the_welder> fancy
[10:15:24] <gfixler> a bunch of school folks were on that one, so they were all there
[10:15:32] <gfixler> it was more a party/reunion than a movie
[10:15:41] <gfixler> lots of my classmates are in LA now
[10:15:43] <dan_the_welder> thats fun
[10:15:44] <gfixler> in movies or games
[10:16:01] <gfixler> it's one of the few centers where graduates pooled
[10:16:05] <gfixler> bunch in Texas, too
[10:16:10] <gfixler> at game companies
[10:16:18] <dan_the_welder> yeah I bet, the film school at FSU is pretty good so my frieds keep moving out there
[10:16:34] <gfixler> yeah
[10:16:46] <gfixler> I'm between worlds
[10:16:53] <gfixler> a lot of my friends are really into one thing
[10:17:02] <gfixler> like they work at a film company, and do that all the time
[10:17:07] <dan_the_welder> they spend two years at the coffee shop writing scripts and then they go to la
[10:17:09] <gfixler> I work in games, but spend almost all of my free time in my shops, building
[10:17:14] <gfixler> ha, nice
[10:17:22] <gfixler> they go online to be in the film/game world
[10:17:30] <gfixler> I go on to learn about anodizing, or machining, or woodshop stuff
[10:17:35] <gfixler> it's like work is a different life
[10:17:54] <gfixler> the cool part is that I end up somehow getting into cool things
[10:18:00] <gfixler> though I always feel like an imposter
[10:18:06] <dan_the_welder> at the cafe, they know i make robots, but they really have no idea what i do
[10:18:25] <gfixler> yeah
[10:18:31] <gfixler> do you know any other machinists locally?
[10:18:49] <dan_the_welder> even the bikes, they are all cool fixed gear ids and I make recumbents which they don't understand
[10:19:06] <gfixler> yeah
[10:19:10] <gfixler> making is rare
[10:19:13] <gfixler> most people don't
[10:19:28] <dan_the_welder> I have a core of friends who make stuff, not nessicarily machinists and we can really talk to each other about techincal things
[10:19:34] <gfixler> there aren't many places that have a large number of people with their own shops and big equipment
[10:19:44] <dan_the_welder> http://www.coepercussion.com
[10:20:01] <gfixler> ooh, marimba?
[10:20:11] <dan_the_welder> this is a good friend of mine, some fancy woodwork for ya
[10:20:17] <gfixler> that's nice
[10:20:19] <dan_the_welder> yup marimba
[10:20:24] <gfixler> I've wanted to make a marimba
[10:20:29] <dan_the_welder> dude,
[10:20:33] <dan_the_welder> story
[10:20:38] <gfixler> I have this art/furniture piece that would play one
[10:20:43] <gfixler> been in my ideas file for years
[10:20:57] <gfixler> I want it to work through midi, so I can play it through my Yamaha, or so I can send it songs to play
[10:21:13] <gfixler> but all of that = lots of research and hard work
[10:21:13] <dan_the_welder> this guy moved into the shop next to me, i go say hi, what are you up to?
[10:21:43] <dan_the_welder> he is making marimbas, i am like wow really?
[10:22:07] <dan_the_welder> so he shows me his first one, which he decided to make becasue he could not afford one.
[10:22:43] <gfixler> ooh, marimba on rolling 80/20 assembly :)
[10:23:04] <dan_the_welder> all from home depot, oak flooring for the keys, pvc resonators, zinc plated corner brackets to hold the stings up. and on and on.
[10:23:22] <gfixler> no way!
[10:23:25] <gfixler> that is awesome
[10:23:46] <dan_the_welder> he tuned the bars with a drum sander on a piece of shit black and decker drill
[10:23:55] <gfixler> that's commitment
[10:24:19] <dan_the_welder> and now look at that stuff, it's so beautiful, and he sends them all over the world
[10:24:33] <dan_the_welder> 10 years ago
[10:24:43] <dan_the_welder> he started
[10:24:47] <gfixler> so awesome
[10:24:49] <gfixler> that was my first question
[10:24:58] <gfixler> how long between the first and international success
[10:25:23] <dan_the_welder> he was selling them pretty much immediately
[10:25:31] <gfixler> out of PVC and oak flooring?
[10:25:57] <dan_the_welder> they were not home depot specials but they improved rapidly
[10:26:09] <gfixler> I'm curious how the first one sounded
[10:26:12] <dan_the_welder> no that was his first one
[10:26:13] <gfixler> that sounds like my kind of project
[10:26:35] <dan_the_welder> got to start somewhere!!!!!
[10:27:00] <dan_the_welder> so much hand work goes into each one of those
[10:27:08] <gfixler> I bet
[10:27:10] <gfixler> mostly in tuning
[10:27:11] <dan_the_welder> he works like a dog
[10:27:20] <dan_the_welder> it shames me
[10:27:24] <gfixler> haha
[10:27:29] <gfixler> computers ruined me there
[10:27:32] <dan_the_welder> tuning, buffing,
[10:27:36] <gfixler> I expect things to happen while I'm reclining
[10:27:42] <dan_the_welder> hahahaa
[10:27:48] <gfixler> made learning to work in the shop again really hard
[10:27:52] <gfixler> one day it dawned on me
[10:28:02] <gfixler> I built a split-level deck around an above-ground pool in high school
[10:28:03] <gfixler> by myself
[10:28:18] <dan_the_welder> wait, i designed the whole thing on the PC and in my head, now I have to actually make it?
[10:28:23] <gfixler> but I'd be all stressed out of over cutting out 2 small pieces of plywood to screw into one top piece to elevate my PC over the desk leg
[10:28:42] <gfixler> I'd cut the sides
[10:28:46] <gfixler> then go have a lie-down
[10:28:53] <gfixler> maybe in a week cut out the top and finish up the project
[10:28:53] <gfixler> :)
[10:29:14] <dan_the_welder> true, do some and then thinks for a bit
[10:29:27] <gfixler> I'm making a wood shed now
[10:29:30] <gfixler> I'm really hauling on it
[10:29:37] <gfixler> the great part is that I designed it all in 3D first
[10:29:40] <dan_the_welder> this machine I am building now is a scary one.
[10:29:41] <gfixler> in one day
[10:29:49] <gfixler> and put each 'piece' in a layer
[10:29:54] <gfixler> later I made plans out of that
[10:30:01] <gfixler> and now I'm working to do a piece a day
[10:30:03] <gfixler> or every 2 days
[10:30:10] <gfixler> and it's been working for about 5 of the 14 pieces so far
[10:30:19] <gfixler> which one are you building now?
[10:30:20] <dan_the_welder> cool
[10:30:35] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/collections/72157607634322637/
[10:30:43] <gfixler> Part 1 is the 3D mockup
[10:30:54] <dan_the_welder> I am making a 5 axis gantry style welding robot
[10:30:59] <gfixler> I have 2 more parts ready to upload and add to the documentation here
[10:31:05] <gfixler> sheesh
[10:31:23] <dan_the_welder> you are prefabing it?
[10:31:35] <gfixler> as in making each piece, and then assembling those?
[10:31:42] <dan_the_welder> in the garage then one big assembly day?
[10:31:48] <gfixler> mostly
[10:31:48] <dan_the_welder> yes
[10:31:55] <dan_the_welder> 1tight
[10:31:55] <gfixler> before they go together I'm going to be treating them all
[10:32:01] <dan_the_welder> nice
[10:32:02] <gfixler> not sure which treatments, or their order yet
[10:32:09] <gfixler> e.g. Thompson's water seal
[10:32:15] <gfixler> caulking everything to keep out bugs
[10:32:31] <gfixler> I got some wood preservative to spray on, but I'm not sure I want to now
[10:32:35] <gfixler> it's really for direct soil contact
[10:32:42] <gfixler> nothing here will touch dirt
[10:32:52] <dan_the_welder> right
[10:33:01] <gfixler> and it might conflict with later treatments
[10:33:02] <gfixler> and the paint
[10:33:07] <dan_the_welder> it's dry there though
[10:33:16] <gfixler> it's humid
[10:33:22] <gfixler> but also in February it pours like crazy
[10:33:26] <gfixler> almost FL level storms
[10:33:35] <gfixler> just for a few weeks, but that's enough
[10:33:35] <dan_the_welder> shit just decays here becasue it's so .......moist
[10:33:39] <gfixler> yeah
[10:33:48] <gfixler> same back home in NJ for my parents
[10:33:55] <gfixler> we have a stream running through the property
[10:33:57] <dan_the_welder> winters too
[10:33:58] <gfixler> lots of squishy mosses
[10:34:00] <gfixler> yeah
[10:34:08] <gfixler> really mild for the last decade, though
[10:34:19] <dan_the_welder> whee global warming
[10:34:22] <gfixler> as a kid I could go out on the stream when it would freeze over
[10:34:26] <gfixler> doesn't do that anymore
[10:34:30] <gfixler> kinda sad
[10:34:39] <gfixler> I usually don't need a coat in winter there now
[10:34:44] <dan_the_welder> what are you gonna do though?
[10:34:44] <gfixler> I'm not outside long enough
[10:35:02] <gfixler> I'm going to build things and ignore the problem
[10:37:13] <dan_the_welder> ok, so if 10000 people are on cnc zone and 10000 people are on makezine, and etsy and instructables, I can't help but think that this whole underground scene of people aching to get away from the bland sameness of the mass market, is going to explode into a new totally awesome economy
[10:37:15] <anonimasu> it started to snow here today
[10:37:32] <dan_the_welder> where are you anon?
[10:37:37] <gfixler> where's that, anon?
[10:37:37] <anonimasu> north sweden
[10:37:42] <gfixler> nice
[10:37:49] <gfixler> what's the weather like throughout the year there?
[10:37:58] <anonimasu> it's nice
[10:38:03] <anonimasu> fairly warm summers and damn cold winters
[10:38:06] <dan_the_welder> i miss winter, you get things done
[10:38:08] <anonimasu> and autumn, and a spring..
[10:38:12] <gfixler> yeah
[10:38:17] <anonimasu> very discinctive seasons
[10:38:21] <gfixler> that's great
[10:38:26] <gfixler> it's almost always the same in LA
[10:38:28] <anonimasu> I like it alot
[10:38:28] <gfixler> very boring
[10:38:33] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[10:38:34] <gfixler> in fact, almost maddening
[10:38:46] <gfixler> I grew up with seasons
[10:38:51] <gfixler> I have no idea what month it is ever
[10:39:04] <gfixler> Dan - I agree about the maker note
[10:39:11] <dan_the_welder> it's so hot in florida in the summer that you get stupid, you know you are stupid but you can't do anything about it untill it gets a few 10's of degrees cooler
[10:39:17] <gfixler> I think it's going to be a big fad for awhile
[10:39:49] <gfixler> growing up I had a dream of having a store kind of like Rockler mixed with an electronics store, and a hobby shop
[10:39:53] <dan_the_welder> yeah, cool right? this underground sea change is happening and it's what makes me optimistic about life
[10:39:58] <gfixler> just all tools, materials, parts, and stock
[10:40:07] <dan_the_welder> junk shop
[10:40:11] <dan_the_welder> awesome junk
[10:40:13] <gfixler> yeah
[10:40:16] <gfixler> but big
[10:40:19] <gfixler> like 10 shops big
[10:40:29] <gfixler> anything you want to make, it has the best tools there for it
[10:40:35] <dan_the_welder> I should just do that with my shop:)
[10:40:44] <fragalot> back
[10:40:45] <gfixler> if you're interested in a big belt sander, you can come touch 10 varieties
[10:40:51] <gfixler> that's a big annoyance for me right now
[10:40:58] <gfixler> welcome back, fragalot
[10:41:01] <fragalot> ty
[10:41:09] <dan_the_welder> you need a big belt sander>
[10:41:17] <gfixler> yes, but moreover
[10:41:19] <gfixler> I'm frustrated by having so few places to see anything
[10:41:23] <anonimasu> :)
[10:41:26] <gfixler> I have to try to find out about things online
[10:41:34] <gfixler> usually with the same one tiny pic everywhere
[10:41:41] <anonimasu> brb
[10:41:44] <gfixler> and not enough detail in the descriptions
[10:41:46] <anonimasu> need to study -_-
[10:41:47] <dan_the_welder> hey frag, wanted to say I like your control box, it looks tight,
[10:41:51] <gfixler> so eventually I just have to order something and hope
[10:41:53] <gfixler> and wait
[10:41:54] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vbGhp http://omploader.org/vcXZq http://omploader.org/vbXc1
[10:42:10] <fragalot> that would be my bedroom/electronics workshop
[10:42:23] <fragalot> bbl again
[10:42:26] <fragalot> >.>
[10:42:30] <gfixler> that's fancier than I expected
[10:42:51] <fragalot> k, "trip" delayed again
[10:42:51] <fragalot> :p
[10:42:53] <fragalot> gfixler: thx ;)
[10:43:03] <fragalot> custom desk, bed,..
[10:43:22] <fragalot> rest is just ikea :p
[10:43:29] <gfixler> I like the cabinets
[10:43:33] <gfixler> I'm all about cabinets recently
[10:43:38] <fragalot> me too :D
[10:43:46] <gfixler> my office machine shop, and garage workshop need them in the worst way
[10:44:06] <dan_the_welder> a place for everything and everything all over the place
[10:44:11] <gfixler> haha
[10:44:14] <gfixler> yep
[10:44:20] <dan_the_welder> i love ikea
[10:44:20] <gfixler> but I've tasted the other side
[10:44:32] <gfixler> I have a few things that are sorted beautifully
[10:44:35] <dan_the_welder> we had one in halifax where I grew up
[10:44:37] <gfixler> and I crave that everywhere else
[10:44:47] <gfixler> they were common in my other locations
[10:44:51] <gfixler> but west LA doesn't have any
[10:44:56] <gfixler> they're really against big shops here
[10:45:00] <gfixler> no Wal*Marts
[10:45:16] <gfixler> almost every place is a small shop
[10:45:21] <dan_the_welder> don't you have a grizzly near you?
[10:45:23] <gfixler> little cafes, tiny restaurants, juice bars
[10:45:27] <gfixler> do I?
[10:45:31] <gfixler> man, that would be cool
[10:45:45] <dan_the_welder> i don't know it just seems like there should be one there
[10:45:49] <gfixler> the 3 big shops I have are Staples, Home Depot, and Best Buy
[10:45:52] <gfixler> they managed to sneak in
[10:46:14] <gfixler> what bugs me is that there are somewhere on the order of 56 thousand coffee shops here
[10:46:25] <gfixler> can't some of those be turned into say, a fancy wood store?
[10:46:35] <dan_the_welder> Tallahasse is less than 200,000 people and we have 5 starbucks, it sucks
[10:46:39] <gfixler> would it hurt people so much to go 3 stores farther for the next coffee shop?
[10:46:50] <gfixler> I went to Maker Faire with a friend
[10:46:56] <gfixler> he had to find a Starbucks in the morning
[10:47:01] <gfixler> we drove past - I counted - 9 coffee shops
[10:47:11] <gfixler> Peets, Coffee Bean, and many more
[10:47:18] <dan_the_welder> there are at least three independent cafes though, so we underdogs are doing ok.
[10:47:19] <gfixler> "NO, keep going, there must be one around here."
[10:47:29] <dan_the_welder> oh my god
[10:47:31] <gfixler> (we found it)
[10:47:39] <gfixler> I got a tasteless cookie
[10:47:56] <dan_the_welder> :(
[10:48:07] <dan_the_welder> make in a factory in the midwest
[10:48:11] <gfixler> I love Cherry Coke Zero, but if we're late for Maker Faire, I can go with a Diet Coke, or even (gasp!) water
[10:48:20] <dan_the_welder> trucked in , full of preservatives
[10:48:25] <gfixler> yeah
[10:48:29] <gfixler> my parents finally tried it, and hated it
[10:48:47] <dan_the_welder> water?
[10:48:52] <gfixler> Starbucks
[10:48:54] <dan_the_welder> hahahaha
[10:48:58] <gfixler> :)
[10:49:04] <gfixler> I live on Coke Zero
[10:49:14] <gfixler> I wish I could get a tap run to my house and office
[10:49:23] <dan_the_welder> ok, I am going to go take a picture or two of my shop for you guys
[10:49:29] <gfixler> cool
[10:49:36] <dan_the_welder> brb
[10:52:24] <gfixler> fragalot: are you bilingual?
[10:55:55] <gfixler> dan - this is fun looking through the marimbas
[10:56:00] <gfixler> he uses all the cool woods I keep seeing
[10:56:05] <gfixler> like padouk and rosewood
[10:56:16] <gfixler> incidentally, that's the 4th spelling of padouk I've seen
[10:56:22] <gfixler> others: paduak, padauk, paduk
[11:07:00] <dan_the_welder> hi I'm back, crashed my pc, hot plugging a floppy drive into it.
[11:07:09] <gfixler> floppy?
[11:07:56] <dan_the_welder> my camera is an old sony mavica, it uses floppies
[11:08:06] <dan_the_welder> don't barf
[11:08:32] <dan_the_welder> http://i36.tinypic.com/wkr1c7.jpg
[11:08:55] <gfixler> that's impossible
[11:08:59] <gfixler> a floppy cam?
[11:09:19] <dan_the_welder> unpossible?
[11:09:27] <gfixler> 1981!?
[11:09:29] <dan_the_welder> retrotastic
[11:09:34] <dan_the_welder> 2000
[11:09:45] <dan_the_welder> http://i37.tinypic.com/6y3b5s.jpg
[11:09:47] <gfixler> ah, yes
[11:10:01] <gfixler> is that a sheer?
[11:10:08] <gfixler> shear?
[11:10:17] <gfixler> shear/press brake?
[11:10:19] <dan_the_welder> press brake shear rooll
[11:10:25] <gfixler> oh man, I want
[11:10:34] <dan_the_welder> now a cnc backgage press brake
[11:10:35] <gfixler> I almost broke down and bought some mini versions of those
[11:10:44] <gfixler> man, you got hydraulics on that thing
[11:10:47] <dan_the_welder> totally worth it.
[11:10:56] <dan_the_welder> air not hydraulics
[11:11:05] <gfixler> what does the CNC do?
[11:11:21] <gfixler> I was just looking at this: http://www.coepercussion.com/metalframe1.jpg
[11:11:27] <dan_the_welder> back gage ad well as bend ange
[11:11:49] <gfixler> and thinking "I could make that if only I had a shear, press break, welder, and powder coating setup
[11:11:51] <gfixler> "
[11:11:58] <dan_the_welder> I welded that frame for matt
[11:12:05] <gfixler> ah ha
[11:12:07] <gfixler> awesome
[11:12:11] <gfixler> how'd you coat it?
[11:12:28] <dan_the_welder> if you look at the top left corner of the brake pic you can see the encoder
[11:12:41] <dan_the_welder> that controls the bend angle
[11:12:42] <gfixler> I see a laptop
[11:12:55] <gfixler> that's great
[11:12:59] <dan_the_welder> down below that look for the belt
[11:13:01] <gfixler> did that take a lot of dialing in?
[11:13:09] <dan_the_welder> yeah,
[11:13:22] <gfixler> is it linear, or did you have to tweak the curve?
[11:13:43] <gfixler> in other words if you get 10 and 90, is 50 halfway between those, or is it off a little one way or another?
[11:13:47] <dan_the_welder> test bend, record the number and put it in the gcode
[11:13:53] <gfixler> nice
[11:13:59] <gfixler> so you build up a table, kinda
[11:14:00] <dan_the_welder> i never got that slick
[11:14:13] <gfixler> I'm imagining it's not a perfectly straight line
[11:14:25] <gfixler> what are the pieces that push down called?
[11:14:26] <gfixler> fingers?
[11:14:33] <dan_the_welder> it needs some love, yeah fingers
[11:14:40] <gfixler> and the part they push into?
[11:14:53] <dan_the_welder> the metal frame marimiba is powercoated
[11:14:53] <gfixler> oh wait, I think I see it now
[11:14:59] <dan_the_welder> v-die
[11:15:03] <gfixler> cool
[11:15:04] <dan_the_welder> bottom die
[11:15:10] <gfixler> I noticed the edge of it
[11:15:17] <gfixler> was thinking the finger dropped behind that
[11:15:36] <gfixler> so do you put the finger in the top, and then screw all of those socket head screws in to clamp it in place?
[11:15:41] <dan_the_welder> yes,
[11:15:58] <gfixler> do you have other fingers for things like bending only parts of things?
[11:16:06] <gfixler> different widths and such
[11:16:25] <dan_the_welder> if you are doing a small thing you can have different positions along the mchine so you can do different angles
[11:16:50] <gfixler> cool
[11:16:57] <dan_the_welder> yeah, there are a million types of fingers, but for real machines, not harbor freight junkers
[11:17:06] <gfixler> your lathe is all tilted
[11:17:12] <dan_the_welder> slant bed
[11:17:12] <gfixler> yeah
[11:17:17] <gfixler> Harbor Freight is where I was looking
[11:17:20] <gfixler> I've stopped looking there
[11:17:46] <gfixler> did you machine that bed?
[11:17:48] <dan_the_welder> their stuff is shit, i speak from experience, but if it's all you can afford.......
[11:17:53] <gfixler> yeah
[11:17:57] <gfixler> I almost bought several things from there
[11:17:58] <dan_the_welder> the lathe bed?
[11:18:04] <gfixler> the tilted bit
[11:18:17] <gfixler> I was smart and researched Harbor Freight for each purchase
[11:18:23] <gfixler> and ultimately never bought anything there :)
[11:18:37] <gfixler> you have spindle control, too
[11:18:47] <dan_the_welder> yeah I make those aluminum bits to hold the lathe on an angle
[11:18:55] <dan_the_welder> only off and on
[11:19:00] <gfixler> oh, okay
[11:19:06] <gfixler> it looks like you have a stepper going to it
[11:19:08] <gfixler> at the top
[11:19:15] <dan_the_welder> not speed, but there is an index pulse for threading
[11:19:26] <gfixler> ah
[11:19:30] <gfixler> so it can auto thread for you
[11:19:36] <dan_the_welder> yeah, welll. I had this plan,
[11:19:43] <gfixler> for the Sherline I'd have to invent something, or buy their crank/gear setup
[11:20:07] <dan_the_welder> switch off the motor, connect the stepper and have A axis control, but I never impimented it,
[11:20:22] <gfixler> ah
[11:20:24] <gfixler> someday?
[11:20:36] <dan_the_welder> I would need an 8 pole double throw relay
[11:20:46] <gfixler> machine one
[11:20:53] <gfixler> is that a rotary collet holder I see?
[11:21:21] <gfixler> whoa, I just realized that's a joystick
[11:21:34] <gfixler> I thought it was some metal support
[11:22:00] <dan_the_welder> yeah, I am thinking, remove the carrige, put some linear slides on it, and make it a dedicated two axis lathe then work on the 4 axis monter at my liesure
[11:22:08] <dan_the_welder> yes collet holder
[11:22:13] <gfixler> cool
[11:22:38] <dan_the_welder> http://i38.tinypic.com/2q1bax0.jpg coller holder for this
[11:22:46] <dan_the_welder> another harbor freight monster
[11:23:05] <gfixler> you have some big toys
[11:24:10] <gfixler> there's no end of tools
[11:24:16] <dan_the_welder> my buddy the electronic guy bought the brake and mill, when he had some cash but did not really know what to do with them, hence the colaboration we have going on.
[11:24:17] <gfixler> I keep buying tools, but there are always so many more
[11:24:26] <gfixler> that's cool
[11:24:31] <gfixler> the marimba guy?
[11:24:54] <dan_the_welder> no another
[11:25:17] <gfixler> do you work with the marimba guy, or was that thing you welded one-off, or favor?
[11:25:23] <dan_the_welder> make me breakout boards and i converted a mini mill for him for routing PCBs
[11:25:33] <dan_the_welder> I work with the marimba guy regularly
[11:25:39] <gfixler> fun
[11:25:41] <dan_the_welder> paint stuff, weld stuff
[11:25:51] <gfixler> you have a powder coater, you said
[11:26:30] <dan_the_welder> I'll be his trade show load in and set up grunt at the end of the month, fun free trip to Austin, TX.
[11:26:40] <gfixler> cool
[11:26:43] <dan_the_welder> yeah powder coat
[11:26:47] <gfixler> that's one of the places where I know some people in games
[11:26:53] <dan_the_welder> true
[11:26:56] <gfixler> do you have any kind of booth, or do you just let the powder fall?
[11:27:23] <dan_the_welder> i made a room, it falls on the floor in there
[11:27:30] <gfixler> wow
[11:27:32] <dan_the_welder> powder recycling is complicated
[11:27:36] <gfixler> enough room to make a room :)
[11:27:45] <dan_the_welder> no choice!
[11:27:48] <gfixler> I don't have enough room to lay down a sheet of plywood
[11:28:02] <dan_the_welder> ahhh but soon you will have a shed!
[11:28:07] <gfixler> hehe
[11:28:11] <gfixler> it's pretty tiny, but yeah
[11:28:12] <gfixler> I'm excited
[11:28:15] <dan_the_welder> http://i36.tinypic.com/22nfic.jpg
[11:28:20] <gfixler> it's funny
[11:28:28] <gfixler> that thing will be able to hold about 10 4'x8' sheets
[11:28:31] <dan_the_welder> to be excited about a shed?
[11:28:32] <gfixler> but I have nowhere to use them
[11:28:41] <dan_the_welder> make another shed
[11:28:47] <gfixler> thinking about it
[11:28:48] <dan_the_welder> ahahhahaha
[11:28:55] <dan_the_welder> a yard full of sheads
[11:28:57] <gfixler> hahaha
[11:28:59] <gfixler> linked with tunnels
[11:29:02] <gfixler> hallways
[11:29:07] <gfixler> LA is weird
[11:29:14] <gfixler> the neighbor's house is right over the fence
[11:29:16] <dan_the_welder> tubes of really big loc-line
[11:29:24] <gfixler> it's a 6' fence, but her windows are higher
[11:29:28] <gfixler> so she can look down into my yard
[11:29:35] <gfixler> I feel self-conscious walking to the garage
[11:29:41] <gfixler> or juggling in the back yard
[11:29:42] <dan_the_welder> she already thinks you are a terrorist
[11:29:45] <gfixler> hahaha
[11:29:47] <dan_the_welder> so go for it
[11:30:00] <gfixler> the garage is staggered behind the house
[11:30:14] <gfixler> so you can drive down a very narrow driveway of dirt into it
[11:30:21] <gfixler> though it's a squeeze even for my hatchback
[11:30:30] <gfixler> which is another reason sheets of plywood are tough for me :)
[11:30:47] <gfixler> at the front of the house is a gate that blocks off that area in front of the garage
[11:30:49] <dan_the_welder> ugh, I have a loading dock....don't hate
[11:30:54] <gfixler> it's like the only truly private place outside
[11:31:05] <gfixler> I REALLY want to build the garage into that area
[11:31:10] <gfixler> make a double-long garage
[11:31:15] <gfixler> that would help me tremendously
[11:31:21] <dan_the_welder> crafty, a shotgun garage
[11:31:24] <gfixler> but it's a rental
[11:31:28] <dan_the_welder> ahhh
[11:31:34] <gfixler> I've thought about building something I could just push up against the front
[11:31:38] <gfixler> and then open the door into it
[11:31:43] <gfixler> it wouldn't be permanent
[11:31:47] <gfixler> but I'd run electric and lighting into it
[11:31:52] <gfixler> and seal it up against bugs and weather
[11:32:00] <gfixler> that's an even bigger task than this tiny shed, though
[11:32:03] <dan_the_welder> too bad the market is fucked you need a house with a double garage.
[11:32:10] <gfixler> seriously
[11:32:22] <gfixler> but when I think about that
[11:32:25] <gfixler> I think about having to move this stuff
[11:32:31] <gfixler> just got a 7' tall 18" band saw
[11:32:32] <gfixler> 280lbs
[11:32:42] <gfixler> have a 320lbs circular saw table
[11:32:47] <gfixler> that giant router table
[11:32:55] <gfixler> my two work tables are 200lbs each
[11:32:58] <dan_the_welder> heh heh heh, so should I go take a picture of my 8000 pound milling machine?
[11:33:05] <gfixler> probably next time
[11:33:08] <dan_the_welder> i already know the answer
[11:33:08] <gfixler> just finishing up
[11:33:11] <gfixler> need to get to bed
[11:33:14] <gfixler> 4:33AM here
[11:33:17] <gfixler> don't you sleep?
[11:33:20] <dan_the_welder> 7.33
[11:33:29] <dan_the_welder> I am going to go get more coffee
[11:33:31] <gfixler> haha
[11:33:41] <dan_the_welder> i keep really weird hours
[11:33:43] <gfixler> I need to get up reasonably early so I don't waste another Saturday sleeping
[11:33:43] <fragalot> AANd i'm back again
[11:33:46] <gfixler> haha
[11:33:49] <gfixler> welcome back
[11:33:51] <dan_the_welder> hi frag
[11:33:55] <fragalot> gfixler: dutch, english, french, german.
[11:34:20] <gfixler> nice
[11:34:29] <gfixler> you Europeans and your multilingualness
[11:34:39] <gfixler> over here in America we speak only English, and usually not all that well
[11:34:40] <fragalot> :p
[11:34:49] <gfixler> any preference?
[11:34:51] <dan_the_welder> hahaha soo true
[11:35:02] <gfixler> we like to say nookular
[11:35:04] <gfixler> :)
[11:35:19] <gfixler> here's a question I never get to ask anyone here
[11:35:28] <dan_the_welder> "we" i think the eletists pronounce it correctly
[11:35:33] <fragalot> gfixler: I prefer english, tbh
[11:35:41] <gfixler> frag: do you feel the languages allow you to express yourself differently?
[11:35:48] <dan_the_welder> even if we can't spell eletist
[11:35:50] <fragalot> Not really
[11:35:55] <fragalot> they're all the same for me
[11:35:57] <fragalot> except french
[11:35:58] <fragalot> i hate french
[11:35:58] <gfixler> interesting
[11:36:00] <gfixler> haha
[11:36:04] <gfixler> me too
[11:36:07] <gfixler> it's all crazy
[11:36:16] <gfixler> I've had people read things in French to me
[11:36:19] <dan_the_welder> I learned french in school,
[11:36:19] <gfixler> and it doesn't seem to match up at all
[11:36:30] <gfixler> I really wanted to learn Spanish in high school
[11:36:32] <fragalot> gfixler: that's basically it,.. it doesn't.
[11:36:38] <gfixler> wherever I've lived it's the predominant secondary language
[11:36:40] <dan_the_welder> canadian, suppoded to be bilingual
[11:36:41] <fragalot> wanna learn spanish? get a maid.
[11:36:49] <gfixler> Puerto Ricans in NJ, and Mexicans in LA
[11:36:50] <gfixler> haha
[11:36:56] <gfixler> I know tiny bits
[11:37:02] <gfixler> I had 2 years in high school
[11:37:02] <dan_the_welder> oh damn, they pick tomatoes here
[11:37:05] <gfixler> but 5 teachers in that time
[11:37:08] <gfixler> each started over
[11:37:12] <gfixler> and taught terribly
[11:37:28] <fragalot> lol
[11:37:39] <gfixler> 3 of the people I work with are Mexican
[11:37:41] <gfixler> all artists
[11:37:52] <gfixler> only two speak Spanish, though
[11:38:01] <gfixler> and only one of those has an accent
[11:38:04] <fragalot> all we have here are people from marocco, turks,..
[11:38:08] <dan_the_welder> will they paint the virgin on the hood of your hatchback?
[11:38:12] <gfixler> haha
[11:38:17] <gfixler> if I asked nicely, probably
[11:38:33] <fragalot> lol
[11:38:56] <gfixler> Dan, what's that last thing you sent?
[11:38:56] <fragalot> * fragalot pokes a hole in the american dream
[11:38:58] <gfixler> the 80/20 stuff
[11:39:03] <gfixler> storage?
[11:39:04] <gfixler> XY table?
[11:39:17] <dan_the_welder> not trying to be a totasl racist dick but sometimes i just lose it.
[11:39:22] <gfixler> when you said 10 sheets of lumber, did you mean stacked, or is that the size of a house?
[11:39:28] <gfixler> :)
[11:39:38] <dan_the_welder> that is going to be a 5 axis gantry robot TIG welder
[11:39:39] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: got a nice story on that "racist" thing
[11:39:45] <dan_the_welder> or I am going to die trying
[11:39:52] <gfixler> oh yeah
[11:40:01] <dan_the_welder> let er rip
[11:40:06] <gfixler> 5 axis
[11:40:21] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: friend of my dads was sitting in the train, when a group of turkish teens started harrassing her, when she asked them to leave her alone, they called her a racist,.. but when she mentioned her uncle was from turkey, they started apologising like mad.... now... who's the racist?
[11:40:29] <gfixler> trying to imagine that
[11:40:44] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: now THAT would be awesome,.. Hope you can pull it off!
[11:40:58] <fragalot> also, wtf do you guys get the money to afford 80/20 >.>
[11:41:13] <dan_the_welder> i know, it's so complicated, but once I got the idea I was ... I just had to do it.
[11:41:25] <gfixler> fragalot: I don't afford it :)
[11:41:28] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: haha
[11:41:35] <gfixler> does EMC allow a 5th axis?
[11:41:42] <fragalot> gfixler: EMC should be able to do 9
[11:41:43] <gfixler> my Sherline driver box only has 4 outs
[11:41:46] <gfixler> wow
[11:41:54] <dan_the_welder> it's cheaper by about 50% if you get it from ebay, but i have a buisness
[11:42:08] <gfixler> I guess they show up if you add them in the confs?
[11:42:11] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I'm listening.... :p
[11:42:23] <gfixler> dan_the_welder: me too
[11:42:29] <dan_the_welder> and if I don't figure out a way to make things faster and cheaper, I maight as well get a job.
[11:42:30] <fragalot> gfixler: no idea, I only read that on the "about" page :p
[11:42:38] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: hahhaah
[11:42:43] <gfixler> fragalot: is all of Sweden in one time zone?
[11:42:52] <fragalot> gfixler: what do I know o.0
[11:42:58] <gfixler> haha
[11:42:58] <fragalot> I'm from belgium
[11:43:10] <dan_the_welder> http://i38.tinypic.com/wsusug.jpg
[11:43:16] <gfixler> school in Sweden?
[11:43:28] <fragalot> gfixler: where did you get the "sweden" part from? o.0
[11:43:30] <gfixler> fragalot: what day and time is it there now?
[11:43:42] <gfixler> oooh, I know
[11:43:49] <fragalot> I think it's sunday,.. 13:44
[11:43:55] <anonimasu> 13:42 :p
[11:44:03] <gfixler> anonimasu is in Sweden
[11:44:09] <gfixler> I mixed you up
[11:44:25] <gfixler> you're in the same time zone?
[11:44:29] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I can understand if you make a 5 axis MIG welder, but.. TIG.. damn boy :p
[11:44:33] <gfixler> what are the odds?
[11:44:38] <fragalot> gfixler: very high?
[11:45:02] <gfixler> fragalot: no idea - bad at statistics
[11:45:06] <dan_the_welder> well, I do all most all tig welding
[11:45:17] <fragalot> sweden, belgium, germany, france, spain, portugal, swiss,. .................. and others i forgot are all in the same timezone
[11:45:22] <dan_the_welder> the weird part is just a wire feeder
[11:45:32] <gfixler> wow
[11:45:35] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: Yeah, but doing it automated just sounds,.... o.O
[11:45:38] <gfixler> that's a lot in one place
[11:45:43] <dan_the_welder> but thats just mig welder parts hooked up to another stepper
[11:45:53] <gfixler> wow, Sunday
[11:45:57] <gfixler> that's far ahead
[11:45:58] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: for MIG it's "easy" to make a 5axis welder,.. the TIG sounds... challenging.
[11:46:05] <fragalot> gfixler: saturday, lol
[11:46:06] <gfixler> it's still Tuesday over here
[11:46:19] <fragalot> FOUR OCTOBER
[11:46:20] <fragalot> :p
[11:46:35] <dan_the_welder> well, the thing is that TIG is slow, so the control is not to insane...yeah it's a lot of work.
[11:46:45] <gfixler> wait, I'm still subtracting 12 from your crazy time notation to figure out what time that is
[11:47:19] <gfixler> so that's 9 hours ahead of LA?
[11:47:21] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: my TIG installation here would probably be /VERY/ hard,.. its' a scratch start,.. no HV comes into play :(
[11:47:26] <gfixler> that doesn't seem like enough
[11:47:37] <dan_the_welder> yeah I have HF
[11:47:38] <fragalot> gfixler: lol.
[11:48:08] <dan_the_welder> how do you aim a comment to someone specifi in IRC
[11:48:23] <gfixler> I've just been typing fragalot:
[11:48:38] <dan_the_welder> me too, hence the concatenation
[11:49:04] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I only have an ERGUS inverter, 5-160ADC, capable of working on major power fluctuations without giving a bad weld
[11:49:13] <fragalot> I just hit dan<TAB>
[11:49:17] <fragalot> or gf<TAB>
[11:49:20] <gfixler> oh yeah
[11:49:25] <gfixler> that works here, too
[11:49:31] <fragalot> should work everywhere
[11:49:33] <dan_the_welder> fragalot
[11:49:37] <dan_the_welder> tight, thanks
[11:49:37] <gfixler> wait, what's fenn?
[11:49:49] <gfixler> oh, another user
[11:49:52] <fragalot> lol.
[11:49:55] <gfixler> f<tab>
[11:50:01] <gfixler> it's just like Linux
[11:50:07] <gfixler> how handy
[11:50:09] <dan_the_welder> Linux?
[11:50:09] <fragalot> :)
[11:50:14] <SWPadnos> if you want something to go to one person only, use /msg
[11:50:15] <dan_the_welder> that shits crazy
[11:50:17] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: the OS EMC runs on.
[11:50:19] <gfixler> I'm going to take it a step further
[11:50:19] <gfixler> eye-tracking
[11:50:21] <gfixler> just look at the name and type
[11:50:33] <dan_the_welder> fragalot kidding
[11:50:35] <fragalot> gfixler: better not wear glasses.
[11:50:54] <gfixler> fragalot: not yet, at least
[11:51:06] <gfixler> but the eyes are getting older
[11:51:23] <gfixler> that was an interesting one for me
[11:51:25] <fragalot> i've been wearing glasses since i was,.. I dunno,.. 5 ?
[11:51:28] <dan_the_welder> eye tracking for your overhead gantry personal organization robot?
[11:51:28] <gfixler> bluriness of vision is not the same as blurring stuff with a camera
[11:51:40] <gfixler> or in Photoshop (or Gimp)
[11:51:51] <gfixler> I had perfect vision all my life
[11:51:52] <fragalot> gfixler: yeah, it's odd to explain it to somebody, isn't it
[11:51:54] <dan_the_welder> "gary, you don't talk to me anymore"
[11:52:06] <gfixler> and assumed that if it got worse, it would become like Filter->Blur
[11:52:08] <fragalot> haha
[11:52:21] <gfixler> but it still feels sharp as can be
[11:52:23] <fragalot> gfixler: you don't really notice it without beeing told, or wondering about it
[11:52:27] <gfixler> I just can't read some things as easily
[11:52:32] <gfixler> yep
[11:52:37] <gfixler> I don't feel like anything's blurry, or out of focus
[11:52:38] <gfixler> it feels the same
[11:52:47] <fragalot> friend of mine had to wear glasses,.. badly, for quite some time
[11:52:50] <fragalot> he just never realized it
[11:52:50] <gfixler> I just can't read as far down the eye chart
[11:53:04] <dan_the_welder> ok, this is how crazy CNC has made me.
[11:53:05] <gfixler> it's like it's all sharp, but tinier, or something
[11:53:06] <fragalot> always sat in the front row of the classroom, thinking everybody behind him just didn't care enough to be able to read the board..
[11:53:17] <gfixler> uh oh
[11:53:17] <dan_the_welder> http://i38.tinypic.com/wsusug.jpg
[11:53:18] <fragalot> gfixler: lol?
[11:53:26] <gfixler> dan_the_welder: are you going to suggest CNC lasik?
[11:53:39] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: ye yeh, seen it, got jealous, 'nuf said
[11:53:41] <fragalot> :p
[11:53:43] <dan_the_welder> do you think there is a market?
[11:53:44] <gfixler> I was wondering about milling my lenses back to perfection
[11:54:07] <gfixler> I don't know, but I definitely think there is for my other idea
[11:54:12] <dan_the_welder> fragalot, I made that in august, I have never used it.
[11:54:13] <gfixler> milling those Naruto symbols on kids foreheads
[11:54:16] <fragalot> friend of mine made 4 autonomous welding bots,... mechanically steered, and not computer tho
[11:54:20] <gfixler> kind of like an anime version of tribal scarring
[11:54:29] <fragalot> eg. if it got to the edge, that machine was for a square box,.. so it just went arround the corner
[11:54:34] <gfixler> fragalot: no PC?
[11:54:39] <fragalot> on others it made a barrel, so it just rotated that far;... :p
[11:54:44] <dan_the_welder> thats really cool
[11:55:06] <fragalot> if it wanted to make a cylinder, it rolled a slab of steel, till it found the edge, then followed that edge, welding it up as it went
[11:55:35] <gfixler> fragalot: that's crazy talk
[11:55:35] <dan_the_welder> fragalot were they art projects or did they make stuff?
[11:55:37] <fragalot> made from scrap parts, like .. the transmission came out of a honda bike
[11:55:48] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: he used them to make storage tanks
[11:55:51] <fragalot> for a living
[11:55:55] <dan_the_welder> amazing
[11:55:56] <gfixler> dan_the_welder: what is that last pic of?
[11:56:01] <gfixler> awesome
[11:56:05] <fragalot> he sold the factory ~ a month ago tho
[11:56:07] <dan_the_welder> that is a plasma tube notcher
[11:56:19] <fragalot> he also had a nice 5 meter long guillotine scissor bench thingy he made
[11:56:28] <fragalot> friggin slow machine, but amazingly powerfull
[11:56:32] <gfixler> sweet
[11:56:38] <gfixler> what are plastma tube notchers?
[11:56:42] <fragalot> xD
[11:56:47] <gfixler> omg
[11:56:49] <gfixler> I'm afraid of guillotine machines
[11:57:12] <fragalot> gfixler: it's "slow",.. as in,.. it probably moves faster than your sherline if you'd want to cut trough steel.
[11:57:15] <dan_the_welder> I got to the math part, calculating the gcode and realized I nned a robot welder
[11:57:18] <fragalot> gfixler: slower*
[11:57:20] <gfixler> I cut the base of my left index finger as a kid
[11:57:28] <gfixler> fell off a bike onto glass
[11:57:33] <gfixler> cut two tendons and a nerve in half
[11:57:46] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: will that robot be able to pick parts up on its own too? :p
[11:57:49] <gfixler> 4 hour surgery, months of therapy, scar tissue, can't move it all the way
[11:57:57] <fragalot> gfixler: ouch.
[11:57:57] <dan_the_welder> gfixler round tube meet at a scallop shape, called a tube miter or a fish mouth.
[11:58:06] <gfixler> for about 2 years after that I constantly had this daydream/nightmare of a dwarf swinging a battle axe at my face, and me blocking it with my hands
[11:58:14] <gfixler> and catching the axe right in that spot, reopening the wound
[11:58:26] <dan_the_welder> fragalot no, put everything in a jig and then press go.
[11:58:26] <gfixler> no idea why, but I couldn't shake that stupid image popping up every now and then
[11:58:31] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: on ebay, WTF do you look for? all i can find is diet books on "80/20" :p
[11:58:40] <gfixler> and then I'd be very worried about the old injury for awhile, hiding it in my pocket
[11:58:47] <gfixler> or holding it in my other hand to guard it
[11:58:54] <gfixler> that was in late grade school
[11:58:56] <dan_the_welder> hang on, i'll get you the link
[11:59:29] <fragalot> gfixler: I'm afraid of beeing near a lathe when it's doing 2000+ RPM with a huge 4-claw chuck
[11:59:45] <gfixler> fragalot: lol on the diet books
[11:59:45] <fragalot> had one of those nibble part of my ear off when it was spinning at roughly 2000RPM and broke loose
[12:00:00] <dan_the_welder> oh damn
[12:00:04] <gfixler> jeeze
[12:00:04] <dan_the_welder> http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale
[12:00:15] <gfixler> I always wear eye protection at every tool
[12:00:20] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: Sweet. thanks
[12:00:24] <dan_the_welder> i wear glasses
[12:00:24] <gfixler> even my mini mill working in plastic
[12:00:25] <fragalot> gfixler: eye protection wouldn't really help.
[12:00:32] <gfixler> fragalot: :(
[12:00:39] <fragalot> I think that chuck weighed nearly 25kg
[12:00:41] <dan_the_welder> ear protection?
[12:00:44] <gfixler> haha
[12:01:13] <fragalot> it just went *CRACK* *BANG* trough the 7mm thick plexi of the machine, over my shoulder, and continued it's path of descruction trough the schools workshop
[12:01:23] <gfixler> that's horrifying
[12:01:25] <fragalot> knocked somebody over before it stopped
[12:01:30] <gfixler> wow
[12:01:32] <gfixler> that does it
[12:01:32] <fragalot> and made me nearly crap myself
[12:01:36] <gfixler> 1" thick Lexan goggles
[12:01:39] <gfixler> making them next
[12:02:00] <fragalot> well, atleast the machines failsafe trigger worked.
[12:02:04] <fragalot> after the chuck was gone.µ
[12:02:13] <gfixler> I don't have one of those
[12:02:24] <gfixler> if my machine goes nuts, I'm going to have to battle it by hand
[12:02:36] <fragalot> gfixler: it was a button that made you close the plexi before you could start the machine,
[12:02:39] <gfixler> one machine and one man enter, one machine or man leaves
[12:02:59] <fragalot> if I had decided to duck for the emergency switch, .. well,.. I wouldn't have a face anymore.
[12:03:03] <gfixler> fragalot: cool - I've made a little controller for mine out of a programmable keypad
[12:03:10] <gfixler> :(
[12:03:13] <fragalot> all I did was make sure i got the hell out of there when i saw it go crazy :=p
[12:03:27] <fragalot> gfixler: lol, sweet.
[12:03:36] <fragalot> anyways,.. *goes look for cheap 80/20)
[12:03:44] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/sets/72157604601562020/
[12:04:05] <fragalot> gfixler: nice
[12:04:17] <gfixler> this thing is annoying, though
[12:04:21] <gfixler> has to be programmed on Windows
[12:04:27] <fragalot> >.>
[12:04:29] <gfixler> so I had to bring it in to work to program the sequences, hoping I got them right
[12:04:35] <gfixler> then bring it home and try it all out
[12:04:38] <fragalot> really no linux driver for it?
[12:04:40] <gfixler> had one thing swapped
[12:04:41] <gfixler> yea
[12:04:44] <gfixler> and all closed source
[12:04:44] <fragalot> does it send an event if you hit a button?
[12:04:51] <gfixler> it's just a playback
[12:04:54] <fragalot> 'cos you could remap those on EMC aswell
[12:04:55] <gfixler> it sends whatever you typed
[12:04:56] <fragalot> oh,..
[12:04:57] <fragalot> k
[12:05:06] <gfixler> I've just put the usual EMC keys into it
[12:05:22] <gfixler> the big center button at the bottom is my "E-STOP"
[12:05:27] <fragalot> holly crap dan_the_welderthat's cheap
[12:05:29] <gfixler> not exactly big and accessible
[12:05:36] <gfixler> and not really E-STOP quality
[12:05:40] <gfixler> it's just Esc
[12:06:06] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: nvm, i read it wrong :p more expensive than I thought, yet... less :p
[12:06:31] <fragalot> with shipping added to that,.............
[12:07:12] <dan_the_welder> fragalot you have to keep an eye out for the deals.
[12:07:24] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: shipping from the US to here is insane.
[12:07:44] <fragalot> I got a sun fire V60x for free from a buddy there in the US and by the time it got here, I ended up paying 650 euro.
[12:07:52] <fragalot> 160 for shipping, the rest went to the f*cking customs department
[12:08:30] <fragalot> gfixler: doesn't the controller have a switch for that?
[12:08:46] <fragalot> gfixler: so you can put a nice big, badass mushroom punch switch on
[12:08:46] <fragalot> :D
[12:08:52] <dan_the_welder> fragalot I know, europeans want to buy my bikes, but then UPS wants 1000$ to ship it and there goes your savings on our weak ass dollar.
[12:09:02] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: Aye.
[12:09:11] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: that's just UPS tho
[12:09:16] <gfixler> fragalot: nope! no switch, just a box
[12:09:21] <fragalot> theres another 21% going to customs of the /ORIGINAL VALUE OF YOUR PIECE/
[12:09:38] <dan_the_welder> welll, UPS has bought two other companies that used to do air freight
[12:09:44] <fragalot> gfixler: put a motion sensor in,.. if it moves, switch the machine off :p
[12:10:00] <gfixler> I read that it's cheaper for someone in London to fly to NYC, buy Adobe Creative Suite (when it launches in a month), stay overnight in a hotel there, then fly home, than it would be to buy it in London
[12:10:02] <dan_the_welder> They are tring to get the monopoly thing going on
[12:10:18] <dan_the_welder> gfixler that's fucked
[12:10:27] <gfixler> dan_the_welder: yep
[12:10:33] <gfixler> we're becoming the place to go for cheap stuff
[12:10:39] <fragalot> oh, and customs keep 10 euro for initial administration, 25 for further administration, 75 for investigation and processing, then 21% taxes, and because it took them 3 months nearly 50 euro on rent for storage there.
[12:10:41] <gfixler> a little bit of role reversal
[12:10:44] <dan_the_welder> UPS is awesome and reasonable for domestic, but they want your nuts for overseas
[12:11:07] <gfixler> taxes in Europe seem insane
[12:11:16] <gfixler> as do the petrol prices
[12:11:16] <dan_the_welder> fragalot what is a VX60?
[12:11:17] <fragalot> gfixler: You have no idea.
[12:11:33] <gfixler> fragalot: you guys are too nice - form a revolt!
[12:11:50] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/v60x/
[12:12:09] <dan_the_welder> the USA is the third world with cheap food and cable TV
[12:12:18] <fragalot> hehe
[12:12:23] <fragalot> it's /ALL/ cable TV here.
[12:12:29] <fragalot> except we pased that stage
[12:12:31] <fragalot> it's now digital
[12:13:05] <dan_the_welder> ef digital and trusted computing and all that shit
[12:13:16] <dan_the_welder> i am going all bit torrent and linux
[12:13:42] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: it's just TV,.. it works.., but yes, you need a key.
[12:13:47] <fragalot> obviously, you can still download movies
[12:14:05] <dan_the_welder> a key?
[12:14:22] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I have this thingy, it's like an ATM card
[12:14:48] <fragalot> I just stuff it into the box to identify me as a client that's paid for this and that channel
[12:15:03] <fragalot> without it nothing works,.. (I don't pay anything tho, only get like 500 free channels)
[12:15:03] <fragalot> :p
[12:15:14] <dan_the_welder> fragalot: check this thread on cnczone, lots of stories like your flying chuck:-) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1605&highlight=horror
[12:15:23] <gfixler> 500!?
[12:15:25] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: do i /HAVE/ to :p
[12:15:31] <dan_the_welder> ah cool, I don't have cable
[12:15:35] <fragalot> gfixler: that includes some radio stations..
[12:15:36] <dan_the_welder> no,
[12:15:47] <dan_the_welder> it's some crazy shit though
[12:15:52] <gfixler> fragalot: free TV here means a couple of crappy things sent through the airwaves
[12:15:58] <fragalot> heh, 2nd post
[12:16:04] <fragalot> "serious wood working injuries" .. guess what
[12:16:19] <fragalot> that chuck was on a metal working lathe,.. but i was doing some wood work because i had nothing else to do
[12:16:44] <fragalot> the (custom made) bit grabbed the wood, and ripped the chuck out in the process (SOMEHOWo.0)
[12:16:59] <fragalot> gfixler: plenty of choises and wire range of varieties here.
[12:17:06] <dan_the_welder> one of my frineds owns a used music /dvd store he lets me borrow DVDs. like free rental
[12:17:31] <fragalot> haha
[12:18:05] <dan_the_welder> I fix stuff for him, he also owns the local music venue, it's pretty sweet.
[12:18:33] <dan_the_welder> it's an awesome underground economy we have going on
[12:18:37] <fragalot> wow
[12:18:44] <fragalot> that "sawstop" video on there is pretty damn impressive
[12:19:07] <anonimasu> but it's a one-shot thing
[12:19:34] <dan_the_welder> yeah crazy right, except the cartriges are ballistic and cost a 100 bucks, well, it would suck to lose a finger.........I do have 10
[12:20:00] <dan_the_welder> and I know at leat two woodworker with half a thumb
[12:20:28] <gfixler> don't scare me like that
[12:20:33] <fragalot> I know somebody that cut his middle finger off with a laser
[12:20:33] <gfixler> I'm already terrified of my saw :)
[12:20:44] <dan_the_welder> fragalot thats a pretty fancy server, what do you do with it?
[12:20:45] <fragalot> anonimasu: even if it's a one-shot thing
[12:20:46] <gfixler> fragalot: that's a really manly way to lose a finger, honestly
[12:20:58] <dan_the_welder> ahhhhh a laser? thats a nightmare
[12:20:59] <fragalot> i'd much rather pay $100 than loose a finger
[12:22:17] <dan_the_welder> my friend works at a shop with a waterjet, and i KNOW how powerfull they are, i have seen it cut 1" steel, but something in my mind just thinks....it's only water.
[12:22:26] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: lol, yeah
[12:22:44] <fragalot> it's only 60.000PSI tho
[12:22:47] <dan_the_welder> i hear they cut cake with them too.
[12:22:57] <fragalot> (I'm belgian, we swap our , and .)
[12:23:27] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: lol, yay, cake with granite pellets frosting
[12:23:31] <dan_the_welder> fragalot periods and commas?
[12:23:44] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: like when you say 60.000 we'd write 60,000
[12:24:11] <dan_the_welder> oooh, yeah, I am bilingual in the number punctuation.
[12:24:17] <gfixler> fragalot: do you guys have milliards and billiards?
[12:24:24] <dan_the_welder> grew up metric, live with imperial.
[12:24:32] <fragalot> gfixler: named differently
[12:24:42] <gfixler> dan_the_welder: grew up metric? In the USA?
[12:24:46] <dan_the_welder> Canada
[12:24:50] <gfixler> ah
[12:27:09] <dan_the_welder> well , my EMC pc booted up right
[12:27:26] <dan_the_welder> I thought I had killed it by hotplugging that drive
[12:27:36] <fragalot> lol
[12:28:21] <dan_the_welder> man so ,
[12:28:34] <dan_the_welder> this has been awesome talking to all you guys
[12:28:57] <gfixler> ditto
[12:29:07] <gfixler> we have fairly rare interests
[12:29:16] <dan_the_welder> takes the edge off of being the only weirdo in town
[12:29:22] <gfixler> only the net can help us find each other :)
[12:29:29] <dan_the_welder> <3
[12:29:33] <gfixler> hehe
[12:29:37] <dan_the_welder> (l)
[12:29:44] <gfixler> I'll have to stop in here more often
[12:29:49] <dan_the_welder> true
[12:29:54] <gfixler> I've added the IRC icon to my panel
[12:30:00] <gfixler> otherwise I keep forgetting about it
[12:30:07] <dan_the_welder> i just realized my chat client did irc tonight
[12:30:13] <gfixler> ah, nice
[12:30:26] <gfixler> I'm in XChat on Ubuntu
[12:30:51] <dan_the_welder> I was using GAIM till I killed that box, I am using Trillain on XP now
[12:31:36] <gfixler> ah
[12:31:46] <gfixler> I'm on Pidgin for AIM
[12:31:56] <dan_the_welder> yeah Pigin is good too
[12:32:06] <gfixler> are you dan_the_welder through AIM?
[12:32:24] <dan_the_welder> no on AIM I am tetanusgetus
[12:32:31] <gfixler> haha
[12:32:33] <gfixler> don't do that
[12:32:42] <gfixler> over there I'm greatbiggary
[12:32:45] <dan_the_welder> get got by tetanus?
[12:32:49] <gfixler> yep
[12:32:56] <gfixler> feel free to add me anyone
[12:33:15] <gfixler> then you'll have one more person you can randomly yell words of excitement to when you get some crazy contraption working
[12:33:24] <fragalot> ew, AIM :p
[12:33:34] <dan_the_welder> done
[12:33:37] <gfixler> hey, we're old
[12:33:44] <dan_the_welder> aww fragalot don't like AIM?
[12:33:54] <fragalot> gfixler: http://users.telenet.be/aaronvanneste/vlammenwerper02.jpg <-- crazy enough?
[12:33:59] <dan_the_welder> got a myspace?
[12:34:18] <gfixler> I do, but I don't think I've been there in months
[12:34:32] <dan_the_welder> holy dick whose flame thrower?
[12:34:35] <gfixler> I got it because a friend hired models for some book thing he was doing, and he wanted to show me their portfolios
[12:34:36] <fragalot> mine.
[12:34:42] <fragalot> at a friends place
[12:34:42] <dan_the_welder> nice
[12:34:49] <dan_the_welder> in fact really nice
[12:35:00] <gfixler> fragalot: omg
[12:35:14] <gfixler> is that you killing flying vampires?
[12:35:18] <fragalot> we took a high pressure water jet, took all the parts out, re-made them in aluminium, added in some other safety feats,.. :D
[12:35:23] <fragalot> gfixler: no, thats my buddy I made it with
[12:35:30] <dan_the_welder> thats nuts, you rule
[12:35:30] <gfixler> that's good thinking
[12:35:33] <gfixler> let him get all toasted
[12:35:34] <fragalot> that picture is from the first test run at 45% power
[12:35:39] <gfixler> hahaha
[12:35:44] <fragalot> :p
[12:35:53] <gfixler> I'm part Frankenstein's Monster
[12:35:57] <gfixler> and as such, afraid of fire
[12:36:00] <fragalot> could get a thicker, hotter flame if we added water in
[12:36:10] <dan_the_welder> water, really?
[12:36:14] <gfixler> look at all that room
[12:36:19] <gfixler> that's all I think about anymore
[12:36:21] <fragalot> gfixler: his farm land
[12:36:24] <gfixler> "need more room"
[12:36:26] <fragalot> i'm jealous
[12:36:41] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: yes, water. think of it like if your frying pot is on fire,..
[12:36:54] <gfixler> fragalot: are you up on a railroad crossing sign in that pic?
[12:36:56] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: that pot is over 300°C, so if you put water in, it INSTANTLY evaporatives.. explosively
[12:37:09] <dan_the_welder> atomizes the fuel
[12:37:11] <fragalot> gfixler: that's not a railroad crossing sign,.. was was a protest sign we made ages ago
[12:37:12] <fragalot> he
[12:37:13] <fragalot> *
[12:37:19] <gfixler> fragalot: nice
[12:37:22] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: Exactly
[12:37:48] <fragalot> gfixler: I was standing behind the guy firing it
[12:37:58] <fragalot> switching it on & off
[12:38:03] <dan_the_welder> yeah tried to put out a bucket of gasoline when I was 15 with a spay hose, same effect
[12:38:05] <fragalot> making sure it doesn't fly apart,.. y'know :p
[12:38:15] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: lol.
[12:38:24] <dan_the_welder> I will never forget that.
[12:38:33] <dan_the_welder> 25 foot flames
[12:38:34] <fragalot> I once, (by accident) made a tea light candle blow up
[12:38:36] <fragalot> literally
[12:38:39] <dan_the_welder> 7 meter
[12:38:47] <dan_the_welder> 8 meter?
[12:38:56] <dan_the_welder> a tea light?
[12:38:57] <fragalot> give or take
[12:39:01] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: y'know, those lil' candles
[12:39:11] <fragalot> in a small aluminium thingy
[12:39:11] <gfixler> votives
[12:39:18] <dan_the_welder> yeah, but how?
[12:39:25] <fragalot> i tossed a burned out match into the thing,.. for laughs,.. so, after about a minute, there was a bigass flame comming from that
[12:39:27] <fragalot> it continued to heat up
[12:39:33] <fragalot> till the candle itself ignited
[12:39:38] <fragalot> then i tried to blow it out...
[12:39:40] <fragalot> and *BANG*
[12:39:48] <dan_the_welder> thats really weird
[12:40:01] <fragalot> not really,.. anything burns if it's hot enough
[12:40:12] <fragalot> anything can also explode if it's hot enough
[12:40:30] <anonimasu> adding O to fire is nice :)
[12:40:32] <fragalot> omg it's saturday
[12:40:38] <fragalot> GAME NIGHT :D
[12:40:43] <anonimasu> yeah, and I have 5 pages of math left -_-
[12:40:46] <gfixler> :)
[12:40:51] <fragalot> http://www.zuzafun.com/creative-ads
[12:40:52] <fragalot> hehe
[12:40:54] <gfixler> I'm so glad I have no more homework
[12:40:55] <fragalot> anonimasu: what kind of math?
[12:41:01] <anonimasu> lines..
[12:41:09] <anonimasu> y=kx+m
[12:41:12] <anonimasu> -_-
[12:41:45] <anonimasu> fairly easy but tedious.
[12:41:52] <dan_the_welder> ok, I put a flourescent bulb cover (thin plastic tube) one end in a vise, put oxy acetelyene in it and lit it through a touch hole in the bottom, when it blew up, it was so loud I could not hear, no damage, but a really loud bang........problem was I was at work
[12:41:54] <fragalot> http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7775/creativeads53ck6.jpg -- that's a really nice glass
[12:42:00] <fragalot> anonimasu: Yeah,.. that's.. real easy :p
[12:42:18] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: >.>
[12:42:45] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: I had that same thing on my right eat in school, some idiot thought it'd be funny to blow 7 bar into it
[12:42:51] <fragalot> couldn't hear for 3 days
[12:43:11] <fragalot> now it's fine, except it sometimes goes *pop* atrandom
[12:43:56] <dan_the_welder> almost got fired, but they liked me and laughed so hard at what a dumbass thing it was to do, that they let me off with a warning.
[12:44:13] <fragalot> lol
[12:44:33] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: go over to the nearest high voltage (REAL high voltage) powerlines with a TL tube.
[12:44:44] <dan_the_welder> no thanks
[12:44:51] <fragalot> dan_the_welder: put it up over your head, don't touch the wires tho,.. it 'l light up on it's own
[12:45:00] <fragalot> just from the EM field
[12:45:00] <dan_the_welder> kewl
[12:45:10] <fragalot> :D found that out by accident
[12:46:07] <dan_the_welder> yeah, radio frequency flourescent lighting was supposed to be the next big thing, but I think COmpact flourecents killed it and not it's all about LEDs
[12:46:08] <gfixler> fragalot: lol, just today I was finally raking out the mess behind the garage, where is planted a power pole that feeds 3 houses
[12:46:09] <anonimasu> fragalot: it's damn boring -_-
[12:46:29] <gfixler> under all the debris was the shattered remains of a sign that warns of HIGH VOLTAGE on that pole
[12:46:33] <dan_the_welder> soory, now it's all about LEDs
[12:46:43] <fragalot> anonimasu: no argument
[12:46:49] <anonimasu> ?
[12:47:02] <fragalot> anonimasu: on the boring part
[12:47:03] <anonimasu> well, I stil gotta do them..
[12:47:05] <anonimasu> :p
[12:47:22] <fragalot> gfixler: oops :p
[12:47:50] <gfixler> :)
[12:48:14] <dan_the_welder> homework is boreing?
[12:48:21] <fragalot> Always
[12:48:30] <dan_the_welder> work is work
[12:48:40] <dan_the_welder> I am avoiding it.
[12:48:58] <dan_the_welder> drinking beer and fucking around on the internet
[12:49:38] <anonimasu> good call
[12:49:40] <anonimasu> brb
[12:50:03] <dan_the_welder> oh, I am such a bad influence
[12:50:28] <fragalot> lol
[12:51:29] <dan_the_welder> I don't know if you were here earlier frag, but I was telling gfixler that it's too hot to think here in the summer.
[12:52:24] <dan_the_welder> so I was just reading about programming and emc setup stuff, and making crap. but now that it's cooled off, I am going to try and do some programming.
[12:52:25] <gfixler> dan_the_welder: we drove the 1200 miles from NJ to FL to drop me off for my first day of school at Ringling in Sarasota, FL
[12:52:34] <gfixler> hadn't opened the windows all day the second day
[12:52:43] <gfixler> opened the doors inside an oven
[12:52:49] <gfixler> stepped out on the blacktop and slid in it
[12:52:53] <gfixler> the blacktop had melted into a goo
[12:52:58] <fragalot> lol.
[12:53:03] <gfixler> and I thought "What have I done?"
[12:53:07] <gfixler> I was going to have to live there now
[12:53:10] <fragalot> http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7871/dangerousroads6st0.jpg
[12:53:11] <gfixler> I wanted to change schools
[12:53:16] <fragalot> I bet dan_the_welder designed that during summer.
[12:53:22] <gfixler> 6 years later, that moment reoccurred to me as I was driving in similar heat
[12:53:26] <gfixler> windows up, air off
[12:53:27] <gfixler> baking
[12:53:29] <gfixler> and not sweating
[12:53:32] <gfixler> I had gotten so used to it
[12:53:34] <dan_the_welder> thats a trip, we drove to Houston last month to see Judas Priest
[12:53:36] <fragalot> :o
[12:53:41] <gfixler> nice
[12:53:48] <gfixler> yeah, it's all day driving 2 days in a row
[12:53:54] <dan_the_welder> no humidity, people were passing out.
[12:53:59] <gfixler> wow
[12:54:03] <gfixler> fragalot: what's that?
[12:54:16] <fragalot> gfixler: a bridge,;. duh
[12:54:21] <fragalot> http://www.zuzafun.com/dangerous-roads
[12:54:21] <gfixler> fragalot: hahha
[12:54:23] <gfixler> of course
[12:54:44] <fragalot> lol
[12:54:56] <gfixler> these look like a racing game I enjoy
[12:55:07] <fragalot> Would be a nice place to set up a suspended gantry tho
[12:55:19] <fragalot> gfixler: ooh,.. I'll go play trackmania :D brb
[12:55:19] <dan_the_welder> wow
[12:55:25] <dan_the_welder> thats the game
[12:55:37] <gfixler> I was thinking Mania Drive
[12:55:40] <gfixler> must be a take on it
[12:55:41] <gfixler> or vice versa
[12:55:51] <dan_the_welder> I saw a video of that and tried to describe it to some one and they thought I was an idiot
[12:56:01] <dan_the_welder> trackmania
[12:56:06] <fragalot> its free
[12:58:12] <dan_the_welder> I have not really been into games for 25 years, my old roomate gave me one of those joysticks with 5 classic games on it, that plugs right into the TV. I wore it out playing Dig Dug and Bosconian.
[12:59:09] <gfixler> Dig Dug gets high playtimes in our game room at work
[12:59:12] <gfixler> we have a MAME cabinet
[12:59:28] <dan_the_welder> I want a mame console machine. I want to play Asteroids and Tempest and Tron and Missle Command, with real joystics and spinners and trackballs.
[12:59:36] <dan_the_welder> hahaha
[12:59:42] <dan_the_welder> right, that;s the shit
[12:59:50] <dan_the_welder> nevermind an Xbox
[12:59:54] <gfixler> I invented a MAME cabinet idea years back
[13:00:02] <gfixler> imagine the panel with the controls can lift out
[13:00:03] <gfixler> straight up
[13:00:10] <dan_the_welder> yeah
[13:00:15] <gfixler> and inside the walls under where it had been are contacts
[13:00:25] <gfixler> like spring metal fingers
[13:00:31] <dan_the_welder> yeah
[13:00:36] <gfixler> all of the cabling for the board is attached underneath
[13:00:39] <gfixler> clean and neat
[13:00:41] <anonimasu> * anonimasu wants a neogeo
[13:00:47] <gfixler> when you push it in, all of the fingers contact
[13:01:02] <gfixler> you could make lots of boards for it, and have them on a skateboard rack next to the machine
[13:01:11] <gfixler> just pull out the Tron one, push it in, and fire up the game
[13:01:32] <gfixler> I also thought it would be fun if it had some coding in it to tell the machine so it could narrow the list down to the games best suited to that controller
[13:01:54] <dan_the_welder> right, check this, four sided, Rotates. Trackball, spinner, joysticks, keyboard
[13:02:14] <gfixler> I've seen a 3 and 6 sided rotational setup
[13:02:18] <dan_the_welder> really?
[13:02:24] <gfixler> yes
[13:02:26] <dan_the_welder> damn
[13:02:36] <dan_the_welder> oh well, great minds think alike
[13:02:41] <gfixler> yeah
[13:02:45] <gfixler> that happens to me all the time
[13:02:57] <dan_the_welder> it's cool isn't it?
[13:03:00] <gfixler> a lifetime of inventions that someone else invents before I can get around to it
[13:03:08] <gfixler> kinda frustrating
[13:03:13] <gfixler> I want a big library of things I've invented
[13:03:21] <gfixler> but something like 50 things I've thought up others have done
[13:03:26] <gfixler> I have only a few really original ideas left
[13:04:35] <dan_the_welder> there was an article in the New Yorker about this ex Microsot dude who invites all his smart friends over and has a patent attorney sit in the corner while they party and brainstorm.
[13:04:45] <gfixler> hahaha
[13:04:46] <gfixler> cheaters
[13:05:01] <dan_the_welder> then they get patents, like 3 or four hundred to date
[13:05:15] <dan_the_welder> that artice made me furious
[13:05:45] <dan_the_welder> exactly cheaters with cash screwing the little guys out of ideas
[13:06:05] <dan_the_welder> fuck them,
[13:06:11] <gfixler> yeah
[13:06:24] <gfixler> I can't find that mame cab
[13:06:36] <dan_the_welder> with the rotating or the modules
[13:06:41] <gfixler> rotating
[13:06:47] <gfixler> ah, found it
[13:08:31] <gfixler> not it, but similar
[13:08:36] <gfixler> http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/old/
[13:08:41] <gfixler> http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/old/images/controlspin.jpg
[13:10:07] <gfixler> the other one I loved was the all-modular one: http://www.beersmith.com/mame/panels.htm
[13:10:17] <gfixler> just piece together the panel you want, and plug the pieces in through ethernet cables
[13:13:07] <dan_the_welder> wow on the ethernet one
[13:14:52] <fragalot> *g* finished 3 maps
[13:15:10] <dan_the_welder> I'd do rotating, but the concept is cool
[13:15:15] <dan_the_welder> maps?
[13:15:20] <fragalot> trackmania :p
[13:16:17] <dan_the_welder> ahhh
[13:17:40] <fragalot> now that is one nice arcade
[13:17:52] <dan_the_welder> which one?
[13:18:04] <dan_the_welder> http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/old/
[13:18:17] <fragalot> the end product
[13:18:34] <dan_the_welder> the graphics on the control board are amazing
[13:18:43] <fragalot> Yeah
[13:19:07] <fragalot> I liek the concept of rotating the monitor instead of just doing it in software or via the settings :p
[13:19:16] <gfixler> I saw a guy who was casting his own Tron handles from an original
[13:19:19] <gfixler> and selling them on Ebay
[13:19:21] <gfixler> they looked great
[13:19:23] <fragalot> LOL
[13:19:28] <dan_the_welder> yeah thats cool tooo, I have never seen taht implimentd before
[13:19:41] <gfixler> my friend has been trying to do that rolling monitor thing
[13:19:43] <gfixler> having terrible luck
[13:19:45] <gfixler> everything is too weak
[13:19:56] <fragalot> haha
[13:20:43] <dan_the_welder> I have been loooking for a bigish monitor on ebay that does VGA and composite video so I can get rid of my TV
[13:21:10] <dan_the_welder> and have a PC/Mame/entertainment center on wheels
[13:21:58] <gfixler> nice
[13:22:08] <gfixler> with CNC somehow
[13:22:13] <dan_the_welder> ahahhaha
[13:22:28] <dan_the_welder> it should give me haircuts t least
[13:22:55] <gfixler> well, I'm going to have to get to bed
[13:22:58] <dan_the_welder> haircuts, put stuff away, vacuum
[13:22:58] <gfixler> I'm passing out over here
[13:23:04] <dan_the_welder> do it.
[13:23:06] <gfixler> 6:30AM!
[13:23:14] <gfixler> I'll sleep 'til the late afternoon
[13:23:16] <dan_the_welder> glad to have met you,
[13:23:19] <gfixler> less time cutting up lumber
[13:23:21] <gfixler> you, too
[13:23:30] <gfixler> and you as well fragalot, and anonimasu
[13:23:36] <gfixler> hope to see you around again soon
[13:23:41] <gfixler> goodnight and good morning!
[13:23:42] <fragalot> gnite
[13:23:47] <dan_the_welder> get some sleep and mess with your neighbors head making a shed at night
[13:23:48] <fragalot> almost evening
[13:23:54] <gfixler> haha
[13:23:55] <gfixler> will do
[13:23:56] <gfixler> peace
[13:24:26] <fragalot> im tired :(
[13:24:35] <dan_the_welder> me too
[13:24:37] <fragalot> bbl
[13:24:41] <dan_the_welder> bye
[13:24:50] <fragalot> back
[13:24:57] <dan_the_welder> quick
[13:24:58] <fragalot> :p found the remote sooner than I thought
[13:25:40] <dan_the_welder> well I'm going to bed
[13:25:49] <fragalot> gnite
[13:26:02] <dan_the_welder> i had lots of fun, did not fix my emc problem, but whatever
[13:26:13] <dan_the_welder> take it easy
[15:31:07] <cradek> wow, skunkworks's post is puzzling
[15:31:40] <SWPadnos> I'm sure it's an oops
[15:31:52] <SWPadnos> it's just a question of how bad an oops ;)
[15:32:27] <cradek> he should trim his quote, he might notice what's in it :-)
[15:32:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:34:12] <fenn> looks like sourceforge burped a couple old messages
[15:34:26] <SWPadnos> yeah, I just got a commit from 9/25
[15:45:47] <SWPadnos> oh. there's another one
[15:50:02] <fragalot> speaking about oops: http://www.hornoxe.com/wp-content/picdumps/picdump70/tumbs/tmb_hornoxe.com_picdump70_05.jpg
[15:55:48] <spasticteapot__> spasticteapot__ is now known as spasticteapot
[16:31:20] <Paragon> Hello All :-)
[16:32:21] <fragalot> HAH
[16:32:27] <fragalot> microchip accepted my sample request
[16:33:07] <Paragon> I justed fitted an R8 ER25 Collet holder to my mill and I have just put a clock on it. The run out is .03 mm does sound acceptable?
[16:34:30] <fragalot> to me,. no
[16:35:04] <fragalot> to most others,.. I'd say yes :p
[16:36:18] <fragalot> (note: do not go by my assumptions-)
[16:36:24] <Paragon> At the cutter I am getting .14 run out ! ?
[16:37:27] <fragalot> not really a good sign
[16:39:00] <Paragon> No... The R* holder and collets are new (6 months old) never been used. Maybe I am setting it up wrong... never used er collets before.
[16:41:47] <fragalot> if the holder is set up right, the rest should align pretty much on it's own, it's just weird that you get .03mm on the holder,.. Was it that far off before with normal tool holders?
[16:43:04] <tom1> if emc was used for a mill and another emc for a puma robot workpiece changer, how might the 2 emc programs talk to each other? ( or should 1 emc try to handle the 2 )
[16:43:15] <Paragon> I never tested before as there was no way to measure agains the holder (EC quick change)
[16:44:36] <fragalot> Paragon: measure against the tool then :/
[16:46:55] <Paragon> I will as soon as I get the tool out of the collet ....
[16:50:02] <fragalot> need a bigger hammer?
[16:51:35] <Paragon> No, Or Yes ;-) .. Trying to undo the collet but the drawbar bolt is undoing. I don't have another tool to hold the spindle :-(
[16:57:04] <fragalot> I hate that part
[16:57:43] <fragalot> granted, it's been since highschool that i did that,... as a lil' 14yo,.. working on bigass bridgeport machines,... It was near impossible to do alone, lolm.
[16:58:50] <fragalot> Paragon: perhaps bigger hammer isn't the right way.. how about pneumatic ;)
[17:03:38] <anonimasu> Paragon: that's not good.
[17:04:04] <anonimasu> (runout) that is
[17:05:24] <anonimasu> Paragon: you shouldnt really be able to make them not align thats the point of collets
[17:06:08] <fragalot> ^ thus the question "was it ok before"
[17:06:11] <anonimasu> as it clamps uniformly around the cutter there should be no way to make it not align unless you've got crap inside..
[17:06:19] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[17:07:31] <fragalot> crap sucks
[17:07:33] <fragalot> I hate crap
[17:09:23] <tom1> cocked, lotsa people cock collets. to remove it.. when the drawbar gets loose, can you pull the collet assembly out? may be safer to work OUT of the spindle.
[17:09:44] <tom1> (might be cocked)
[17:14:32] <Paragon> sorry for the delay ... just got the cutter out :-)
[18:09:29] <archivist_ub> Paragon, I spend some time cleaning the headstock hole etc before and runout test
[18:09:41] <archivist_ub> and any
[18:24:56] <tom1> if there's a key in the headstock ( and a keyway in the collet holder), then feel for a burr on the male key ( usually destroyed on Bports)
[18:25:26] <tom1> the key keep s the collet from turning while the drawbar is loosened
[18:29:56] <tom1> heh can someone record the sound a bport started up without being in gear, and another with it started up with the drawbar wrench on it? those sounds still scare the pants off me, and they'd be great for audio alerts ;)
[18:31:04] <fragalot> lol
[18:31:25] <fragalot> how about hte sound of a cranked up 50cc scooter who'd back axle snaps in 2 doing 55km/h ?
[18:31:44] <fragalot> * fragalot won't forget that sound either
[18:38:08] <tom1> thers a guy selling those 50cc pocket bikes on s.side of chicago for 99$. i want to strap one, friction mount, (facing rear) on rear tire of my 27" mongoose bicycle, just to see what it does
[18:38:31] <fragalot> hahaha
[18:39:04] <fragalot> I've tried what happens if you try that witha 150cc 4stroke, without mounting it properly
[18:39:06] <fragalot> doesn't work out
[18:40:04] <archivist_ub> tom1 chicago! is LaSalle motor lodge still a den of iniquity (I stayed there many years ago)
[18:41:36] <tom1> you were in a bad place
[18:42:20] <archivist_ub> I foud out later!
[18:42:24] <fragalot> Zing! :p
[18:42:24] <archivist_ub> found
[18:43:18] <tom1> what tipped you off "you wanna stay all night?"
[18:44:09] <archivist_ub> boss over here recommended the place as cheap!
[18:44:30] <fragalot> cheap isn't ALWAYS good y'know...
[18:44:50] <tom1> shame on your boss
[18:44:51] <archivist_ub> but heard later about ladies of the night being found dead ubder the bed
[18:45:01] <fenn> always wanted a folding motorcycle, something like this: http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/102/C8525/
[18:45:25] <fragalot> fenn: aslong as they only fold when YOU want to ;)
[18:45:40] <fenn> then i could strap it to my back and parachute with it
[18:45:45] <tom1> tomp hopes picture isnt bike folded around tree
[18:46:48] <tom1> cool 'omni-circulated' ;)
[18:47:54] <tom1> ? ninja para-military bikey?
[18:47:59] <tom1> biker
[18:48:29] <fenn> day-glo candy ninjas from outer space
[18:49:05] <tom1> hahahaha
[18:49:08] <fenn> i think that bike looks sorta like a gourmet licorice candy
[18:49:24] <fenn> or a gummy snake
[18:49:56] <fenn> http://www.candymachines.com/images/packaged_candy/garv01/C104110.jpg
[18:50:29] <fragalot> o.0
[18:55:28] <tom1> fenn why did you want the turn feature on the tensegrity spool? outside of edm and punches i dont know much need for that orientation.
[18:55:49] <tom1> usuallt the tool or work spins
[18:57:10] <fenn> no particular reason
[18:57:40] <fenn> most applications where you need C axis would require 360 or more
[18:58:02] <fenn> might be useful for crane stuff
[18:58:28] <fenn> like putting a transmission back on a car
[19:00:31] <archivist_ub> hmm wires get in the way, just use a crane
[19:00:42] <tom1> i saw a picture of one of those concrete buckets on a crane, funnel bottom, a release line for the plug. thought of your design and reprap (big)
[19:03:39] <fragalot> I'd say turning 400° would be nicer than 360 as a limit
[19:04:19] <fragalot> then again, I have no idea what you're talking about and feel like I constantly troll the channelbecause i have nothing better to do >.>
[19:04:33] <anonimasu> :)
[19:05:34] <archivist_ub> make something
[19:06:12] <archivist_ub> took me a long time till I went for the machine build :)
[19:06:57] <fragalot> archivist_ub: i'm sitting here in my robe 'cos it's laundry "night", and it's 9pm
[19:07:06] <fragalot> I don't feel like going to the store to buy a giant slab of MDF.
[19:07:12] <tom1> some fishing reels have 'line counters" not really accurate, but idea may be good enough for the crane reels when working at crane sized scale and inch precision
[19:07:55] <fragalot> tom1 what about those cheap laser/sonar distance measuring devices you can buy in the local cheapskate chain
[19:08:35] <fragalot> (or just measure the length of the wire itself going down,.. should be fairly accurage.
[19:08:39] <fragalot> accurate
[19:08:45] <tom1> yeah, theyd be as accuracte ( is that the word ?)
[19:09:05] <fragalot> accurate
[19:09:09] <tom1> not the crappy spelling, the idea
[19:09:16] <tom1> ;)
[19:09:20] <fragalot> :p
[19:09:42] <fragalot> it's so obvious, you'll shit bricks when you see it.
[19:16:44] <fenn> fragalot: i know MDF is like the bees knees and all that, but you really ought to consider using something better
[19:17:07] <fenn> no sense in building something out of crap materials
[19:17:51] <fenn> at least go for some good hardwood plywood
[19:19:25] <fragalot> fenn: yes, but MDF is just plain.. flat
[19:19:39] <fragalot> with normal wood that's not always guaranteed... granted, i could sand it down perfectly,...
[19:19:48] <fragalot> but then theres the mess with those brown knobs
[19:20:10] <fenn> i'm not a fan of wood at all
[19:20:26] <anonimasu> wood is for carpentry not machines
[19:20:30] <anonimasu> :(
[19:20:41] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub agrees
[19:21:00] <archivist_ub> ally is not much better
[19:21:07] <anonimasu> just like aluminium is a generally shitty metal for structural stuff
[19:21:47] <fragalot> it's just for PCB's,..
[19:22:04] <fragalot> it's not like it has to be as structurally sound as it has to be to go munch chrome alloys
[19:22:55] <archivist_ub> once you have a toy, the temptation to do MORE is overwhelming
[19:23:05] <anonimasu> haha..
[19:23:05] <fragalot> ofcourse
[19:23:06] <anonimasu> yes.
[19:23:14] <anonimasu> "I'll just cut some of this chrome vanadium ^_^"
[19:23:27] <anonimasu> that stuff machines really well btw :p
[19:23:42] <fragalot> that's where the 35.000 RPM spindle, and .01"/min speeds come into play
[19:24:05] <anonimasu> I turned down some tools in chrome vanadium the other week
[19:24:18] <anonimasu> it cut really nicely
[19:24:22] <fragalot> Unknown command.
[19:24:24] <fragalot> oops
[19:24:51] <anonimasu> I didnt expect it to turn that nicely
[19:25:36] <fragalot> some tools do, some just.. don't
[19:25:41] <anonimasu> :)
[19:25:46] <fragalot> I tried to bore out the hole in the handle of a big wrench once
[19:25:51] <anonimasu> :)
[19:25:58] <fragalot> instead of drilling that hole out,... the drillbits just got smaller
[19:26:17] <anonimasu> :p
[19:26:21] <anonimasu> carbide ftw!
[19:26:31] <fragalot> I did try carbide later
[19:26:39] <fragalot> went trough, but had a rough time doing so
[19:26:52] <fragalot> (drill press btw)
[19:26:58] <anonimasu> lol
[19:27:02] <anonimasu> not surprising
[19:27:07] <fragalot> :p
[19:27:14] <anonimasu> did it go ~
[19:27:19] <anonimasu> when the drill turned ;)
[19:27:47] <fragalot> no,.. it just worn the carbine bits after going almost completely trough
[19:28:05] <fragalot> I was >.< this close to just grabbing my TIG welding station and BURNING that hole open
[19:28:25] <fragalot> but decided to just take another set of bits,.... those went trough cleanly
[19:28:29] <anonimasu> it sounds like you used a too flimsy machine :p(sorry)
[19:28:44] <fragalot> anonimasu: 3phase 400V drillpress, floor stand
[19:29:44] <anonimasu> well, from my experience they arent too rigigd..
[19:30:04] <fragalot> it's not really flimsy,... it does tend to fall apart at times tho
[19:30:19] <fragalot> you just drill a hole, turn arround, hear a loud *BANG* *klink*
[19:30:29] <fragalot> and find a nice drillhead on the floor
[19:31:26] <anonimasu> :)
[20:47:44] <archivist_ub> is anyone else getting old list mails ? dunno if its gmail or sourceforge
[20:48:22] <tom1> today i had 2 that were a day old, for me its rare
[20:48:55] <archivist_ub> I just got a couple 5 days old
[20:49:23] <tom1> in todays mail batch was a note about 'terrible latency'. the reccomendation was to try a pci video >in the 1st slot<. is the 1st pci slot going to make a difference?
[20:52:40] <archivist_ub> this just arrived was sent 29th [Emc-users] demo lathe code?
[20:53:27] <archivist_ub> not unusual for SF to be slow and useless though
[22:08:18] <Lerman___> Lerman___ is now known as Lerman