#emc | Logs for 2008-10-03

[00:52:57] <jmkasunich> oops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn7MTXBoVgE
[00:53:46] <kanzure> ieee torrent, anyone?
[01:12:39] <dmess> kanzure ... find integraphics nx5 to work on vista
[01:13:32] <dmess> with Nastran functional
[01:19:06] <kanzure> yes
[01:34:25] <tom1> hooray, i now have the new control operating the machine without the old Heidenhain 416, without the old interface! muhahahah
[01:50:45] <john_f> toml what hardware did you use?
[01:51:52] <tom1> inav mac
[01:52:12] <tom1> drivin home now bbl
[05:03:48] <gfixler> howdy folks
[05:04:00] <gfixler> tonight I'm singing the blues of terrible latency :(
[05:04:25] <gfixler> 350k+ ns
[05:20:42] <phreak4257> bummer
[06:08:52] <gfixler> I was hoping that turning off APIC in the BIOS would help
[06:09:12] <gfixler> but now I'm getting well over 500k when maximizing glxgears
[06:15:14] <phreak4257> not sure how turning off apic helps? that has not been my experience generally
[06:15:25] <gfixler> it didn't help
[06:15:30] <gfixler> I'm trying anything I can over here
[06:15:51] <gfixler> I always get in the several hundred thousands for the latency-test
[06:16:31] <gfixler> unfortunately, this is not my area, so I know nothing about what most of this means
[06:16:39] <gfixler> I'm essentially flipping switches, and seeing what happens
[06:19:50] <phreak4257> I am hardly an expert, however apic (Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller) is supposed to help all of the controllers on all your machine's busses talk better
[06:20:07] <gfixler> I guess it works
[06:20:20] <phreak4257> so I would think that, apart from a bug, it would either help or do nothing
[06:20:21] <gfixler> it's about 100k better when enabled
[06:20:39] <phreak4257> that seems consistent with my experience
[06:22:15] <gfixler> I haven't really found any info on the emc site or through google that gives me any idea of what to try yet
[06:22:23] <gfixler> so I'm mucking about in the bios
[06:33:43] <gfixler> I seem to stay under 35k if I just browse the net, play even some intense flash games (fracture, fantastic contraption), move windows around, etc
[06:33:49] <gfixler> and it's the flash games that bog it down to that level
[06:34:11] <gfixler> but when I open glxgears - which is mentioned in the docs as something to open while abusing the system - it jumps to around 150k
[06:34:18] <gfixler> if I maximize it, it leaps to over 400k always
[06:35:41] <gfixler> I'm wondering if an Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600 from 2002-2003 is just too ancient
[06:43:17] <anonimasu_> no it's not
[06:43:35] <gfixler> that makes me feel better
[06:43:36] <anonimasu_> im running emc on a computer with a nvidia tnt2
[06:43:43] <gfixler> hmmm
[06:44:00] <gfixler> the thing that's bugging me is that the machine actually feels slow
[06:44:11] <gfixler> like when I play a Flash game, the flash cursor lags well behind the mouse
[06:44:27] <anonimasu_> hm.. sounds like your video drivers are broken
[06:44:28] <gfixler> I can see the updates of the windows when I drag them sometimes, like a strobe effect
[06:44:31] <gfixler> could be
[06:44:39] <gfixler> I used Envy to install whatever it automatically installed
[06:44:55] <gfixler> it recognized the Ti 4600
[06:45:27] <gfixler> is GLX necessary?
[06:45:40] <gfixler> it's used by EMC, no?
[06:46:53] <gfixler> anonimasu - have you run the latency-test, and do you get respectable numbers?
[06:47:54] <anonimasu_> yes a very long time ago
[06:48:05] <gfixler> thanks, that's good to know
[06:48:19] <gfixler> it means I don't have to consider a new video card, closing up that avenue of research
[06:48:32] <anonimasu_> the box makes parts :p so I dont play with it alot
[06:48:38] <gfixler> :)
[08:07:10] <anonimasu> :)
[08:36:58] <coden4life> Would anyone beat me to a pulp if I would ask for any info regarding stepconf and the aio-500 controller?
[08:37:40] <coden4life> I really do not want to install windows to use k-cam and I really don't want to use wine to run k-cam
[08:38:09] <archivist_emc> after we help you, we beat you :)
[08:38:20] <coden4life> sounds great to me
[08:38:29] <anonimasu> :p
[08:39:54] <coden4life> I have configuration infromation for k-cam but stepconf wizard does not seem to have the X enable choice after I set pin 2 to x step and pin 3 to x direction I am wondering if the pin 4 x enable is the same as amplitude enable
[08:40:20] <coden4life> or do I have to manually add a line for the pin 4 x enable
[08:41:16] <anonimasu> brb
[08:41:16] <anonimasu> lunch
[08:41:21] <coden4life> nice
[08:41:44] <archivist_emc> 1st coffee arrived here
[08:41:53] <coden4life> this controller sure does beat my homemade unl2003 board
[08:42:21] <coden4life> but the 2003 chip was a nice intro into madness and steppers
[08:42:42] <archivist_emc> steppers can be "fun"
[08:42:49] <coden4life> servos too
[08:43:14] <archivist_emc> I cant see a manual download
[08:43:51] <coden4life> I can scan the config settings they gave for k-cam and post it on a site for ya if you wish
[08:43:52] <anonimasu> servos are marginally funnier ;)
[08:45:13] <coden4life> for each axis the settings have 3 things ........ step , direction and enable for pins 2-9 and 14
[08:45:36] <archivist_emc> I hard wire enables on on my machine
[08:45:37] <coden4life> the direction bit is the only one inverted
[08:47:16] <archivist_emc> I keep enabled (makes for worm steppers but that doesnt bother me)
[08:47:24] <archivist_emc> warm
[08:47:25] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[08:48:11] <anonimasu> well, surely you could wire enable to the "on button"
[08:48:19] <archivist_emc> and stops other problems we have seen on the list from the enable being delayed or automatic
[08:48:25] <anonimasu> well, the one you push to get the machine out of estop
[08:48:52] <anonimasu> my big mill has a hold circuit for enable..
[08:49:09] <coden4life> just not sure if the enable bit has to do with pics on the controller board
[08:49:16] <anonimasu> so if you trip estop or something you need to re-enable the drives..
[08:49:58] <anonimasu> usually enable kills power to the amps :)
[08:50:06] <anonimasu> which is what I expect your's to do too
[08:50:35] <archivist_emc> I keep power to the steppers even in estop as that brakes the steppers as well
[08:51:03] <anonimasu> hm.. yeah it's less dangerous with steppers then servos..
[08:51:14] <anonimasu> a lose wire on a servo system can cause runaway..
[08:51:29] <archivist_emc> yes servo is different :)
[08:52:39] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is pondering making a gear hob on the mill
[08:52:45] <anonimasu> grind it
[08:52:57] <anonimasu> (err use the spindle with a grinding bit)
[08:53:00] <anonimasu> and ultra slow feed.
[08:53:17] <coden4life> well the brothers at work use linux based software (noticed when it boots) and the okuma has windows xp .... and I tell ya I would feel safer if the dual spindle / turret okuma was on a more stable platform lol.
[08:54:10] <anonimasu> :)
[08:54:15] <anonimasu> brother's nice machines
[08:54:17] <anonimasu> damn fast
[08:55:38] <anonimasu> brb
[08:55:40] <archivist_emc> anonimasu: they are normally rough form turned with a machine that backs of each tooth
[08:55:46] <anonimasu> lunch for real this time
[08:55:55] <anonimasu> Well, I dont care how it's normally done I cant do it that way :/
[08:56:08] <coden4life> anyone expierenced at taken an older machine with the alarm clock led displays lol and hooking up emc.. The seem real cheap at $3000 but if I can't see shit on a screen (like distance to go) my stomach tightens....
[08:56:59] <archivist_emc> a few people have done retrofits
[08:57:27] <coden4life> is using the old hardware not an option due to all the i/o's required
[08:57:38] <archivist_emc> have a look at the wiki and the videos for examples
[08:58:12] <coden4life> check a few
[08:58:15] <archivist_emc> depends stuarts cinci has the original scr servo drives
[08:58:37] <coden4life> none for the machine I saw on ebay.... lol
[08:58:51] <coden4life> old hitachi seiki
[08:59:17] <archivist_emc> then you buy parts :)
[08:59:49] <coden4life> a green beast I ran in an old hole in the wall.. always hated going through the program one line at a time and arrowing over to see the g m t s code for that line
[08:59:50] <archivist_emc> Im looking for an old cnc lath/mill to retrofit one day
[09:00:14] <coden4life> I am looking to stop machining for someone else lol
[09:00:35] <archivist_emc> heh thats going to be enforced on me
[09:01:32] <coden4life> I love to machine but working with some people is just too much.
[09:15:30] <archivist_ub> boss is selling the building and going to work from home making me redundant. but I get free machines to enable self employment
[09:15:47] <gfixler> wow, that's exciting
[09:15:51] <gfixler> best of luck
[09:16:13] <archivist_ub> exciting... poverty
[09:17:17] <gfixler> well, owning your machines is cool, at least
[09:18:34] <archivist_ub> yes just dont know how Im going to get business yet
[09:19:05] <gfixler> hostile takeover of your old boss' clients?
[09:20:37] <archivist_emc> heh I should get a backup copy of the accounts data for that
[09:20:46] <coden4life> ok in my manual for this aio-500 pin 4 should be set for x enable *logic high to allow step what does that mean I need to do for setting up emc?
[09:20:47] <archivist_emc> but thats naughty
[09:20:54] <gfixler> (then purge this log)
[09:21:32] <coden4life> unless you did not sign a agreement saying you would not take his customers
[09:21:51] <archivist_emc> I have no agreements :)
[09:22:11] <coden4life> thesameisfor bit 7 Y and bit 14 z enable for logic high to allow step
[09:23:38] <coden4life> the company is selling ubuntu cd's on the site you would think they would have given config info for emc and not K-Cam
[09:24:41] <archivist_emc> just set high (connect to a signal that you set to on)
[09:25:25] <archivist_emc> I cant run stepconf at the moment as I have axis up an running
[09:26:14] <coden4life> cool
[09:26:48] <coden4life> won't be an issue just thought I could set that bit in a config file somehow
[09:27:25] <archivist_emc> there should be a way
[09:32:00] <coden4life> I reading through the docs but thought I might find some clues here
[09:32:09] <coden4life> and I have and am greatfull
[09:32:56] <coden4life> so what kinda things do you want to make archivist_emc .... or don't you care as long as it pays
[09:34:52] <archivist_emc> www.archivist.info/gears
[09:37:27] <coden4life> I C a time keeper you are
[09:40:24] <archivist_emc> I have an idea about time :)
[09:42:06] <archivist_emc> electronic/software engineer with mechanical aptitude working on clocks
[09:43:06] <archivist_emc> seems a lot of us in here work or are interested accross all three interests/skills
[09:44:57] <anonimasu> iab
[09:45:56] <archivist_emc> iac (I am cold)
[09:50:10] <archivist_emc> debugging arcs in axis is useless
[09:51:29] <archivist_emc> I cannot get debug prints of my variables and the axis error message
[09:54:25] <archivist_emc> cannot hightlight the text in the error message to copy it
[10:14:23] <archivist_emc> spending days on a part because debugging is impossible and getting frustrated
[10:28:20] <archivist_emc> fix put editor in axis with variable watches and stepping or separate IDE like system with cgode interpreter and editor
[10:50:46] <gfixler> was that said to me archivist?
[10:51:05] <archivist_ub> what?
[10:51:15] <gfixler> you started with 'fix'
[10:51:21] <gfixler> I'm often called that :)
[10:51:33] <archivist_ub> no
[10:51:35] <gfixler> I wasn't sure if that was something you did, or something I was supposed to try
[10:51:51] <archivist_ub> me having a rant
[10:52:13] <gfixler> got it
[10:52:42] <archivist_ub> 3 days for a simple job aint right
[10:55:12] <gfixler> I'm a newb, so simple jobs usually take me a week, at least
[10:55:20] <gfixler> sigh...
[13:52:03] <BigJohnT> cradek: first tank 39
[13:57:23] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[16:05:54] <anonimasu> toastatwork: !
[16:17:13] <toastatwork> anonimasu: !
[16:17:30] <toastatwork> are we playing metal gear solid on irc
[16:18:03] <archivist_ub> I make solid metal gears!
[16:18:18] <anonimasu> hehe :)
[16:18:27] <anonimasu> how's stuff going?
[16:18:55] <archivist_ub> gave up on arc gcode and made a gear
[16:19:43] <toastatwork> snap
[16:22:45] <fenn> pew pew pew
[16:30:38] <toastatwork> lasers
[16:38:06] <toastatwork> _ ] [ stustev ]
[16:38:06] <toastatwork> 10:54 [ archivist_ub ] [ fenn ] [ lerman_ ] [ Poincare ] [ SWPadnos ]
[16:38:10] <toastatwork> 10:54 [ awallin ] [ IRSeekBot3 ] [ Lerman___ ] [ ra3vat ] [ The_Ball ]
[16:38:12] <toastatwork> 10:54 -!- Irssi: #emc: Total of 56 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 55 normal]
[16:38:15] <toastatwork> 10:54 -!- Channel #emc created Sun Nov 26 01:42:45 2006
[16:38:17] <toastatwork> 10:54 -!- Home page for #emc: http://www.linuxcnc.org
[16:38:20] <toastatwork> oops
[16:38:26] <Poincare> ???
[16:38:51] <Poincare> i like toast with cheese
[16:39:05] <Poincare> but that's why you mentioned me i guess :-)
[16:39:27] <archivist_ub> hmm beans on cheese on toast
[16:40:16] <fragalot> toastatfail.
[16:41:01] <toastatwork> it's going to be epic now that i made a paste mistake that has everyone's nick hilite going off
[16:41:10] <archivist_ub> actually had cheese on toast for breakfast in cafe this morning :)
[16:47:36] <toastatwork> in soviet russia, toast has YOU
[16:50:28] <archivist_ub> hmm getting hungry
[16:57:30] <toastatwork> i got a calzone
[16:57:35] <toastatwork> i don't know what a calzone is, really
[16:57:45] <toastatwork> it should be here any minute, i will review it
[16:57:55] <alex_joni> toastatwork: folded pizza
[16:58:18] <archivist_ub> smaller box posh name
[17:00:10] <anonimasu> hm.. folded pizza..
[17:00:20] <anonimasu> they make them out of nasty looking crap
[17:00:35] <alex_joni> we call tehm left-overs :P
[17:00:42] <anonimasu> haha, yep
[17:00:50] <archivist_ub> fold, hide crap and use smaller box... I smell accountant
[17:00:51] <alex_joni> they usually do that where they have restaurants too
[17:01:03] <alex_joni> not only take out
[17:05:50] <toastatwork> this is pretty good
[17:06:24] <anonimasu> :)
[17:06:38] <anonimasu> hehe, I got food poisoned by one once -_-
[17:06:55] <anonimasu> the day before I went on vacation to greece.
[17:07:01] <anonimasu> they are good pizzas btw ;)
[17:07:04] <fenn> anti-calzonist!
[17:07:07] <toastatwork> hahah ouch
[18:41:08] <dmess> Hi all
[18:47:25] <anonimasu> toastatwork: did you find precision machine design?
[18:47:30] <toastatwork> no
[18:47:34] <toastatwork> i have no idea where those books went
[18:47:49] <toastatwork> i'm just going to have to get my own copy of PMD and foundations of mech. accuracy
[18:48:15] <dmess> what are you building??
[18:48:21] <anonimasu> I see
[18:48:27] <anonimasu> air castles
[18:48:40] <toastatwork> i can't find the lady who re-did the lobby
[18:49:09] <anonimasu> the $$$$ for the books arent too insane
[18:49:13] <anonimasu> about 100$ each..
[18:49:17] <toastatwork> aye
[18:49:38] <anonimasu> http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Machine-Design-Alexander-Slocum/dp/0872634922
[18:49:50] <anonimasu> there's also a combo "ultra precision machine design"
[18:50:07] <dmess> i seen them at IMTS a few weeks ago.. if id have known.... i had to be pulled away from the tech pubs stuff
[18:50:25] <toastatwork> bookmarked
[18:50:28] <anonimasu> well, I suspect I'll own a copy within 4 years -_-
[18:50:30] <anonimasu> somehow..
[18:51:13] <archivist_ub> I just checked my books all a bit old http://www.archivist.info/collection/searchv10.php?searchv4page=1&errlev=0&searchstr=machine
[18:52:30] <anonimasu> :)
[18:53:00] <dmess> i wanna build my own dixi type machine "someday"
[18:53:20] <anonimasu> dixi?
[18:53:26] <archivist_ub> I have got a copy of schlesinger or however you spell his name
[18:53:58] <anonimasu> dmess: got a picture?
[18:54:06] <toastatwork> that's a lot of books, archivist_ub
[18:54:24] <archivist_ub> books is a bad habit I have
[18:56:03] <anonimasu> dmess: http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Brewpub/DIXI3S.jpg
[18:56:05] <anonimasu> ?
[18:56:37] <anonimasu> http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/stefi1/DSCN2157.jpg ?
[18:56:52] <anonimasu> micro jig borer :p
[18:57:02] <toastatwork> lol "micro?"
[18:57:18] <anonimasu> did you look at the last one?
[18:58:28] <dmess> http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Brewpub/Dixiborermodel50.jpg
[18:58:36] <anonimasu> heh..
[18:58:53] <anonimasu> alot of cast iron..
[18:58:55] <anonimasu> and alot of scraping
[19:00:14] <dmess> yep
[19:00:18] <archivist_ub> hmm somewhat bigger than mine
[19:00:27] <anonimasu> I need a jig borer..
[19:00:30] <anonimasu> :p
[19:00:44] <anonimasu> that size is perfect.
[19:00:45] <dmess> do you for what??
[19:00:55] <anonimasu> making holes in stuff.
[19:01:03] <anonimasu> :p
[19:01:22] <dmess> ohh.. just stuff... no actual paying work
[19:01:30] <anonimasu> yes, but not enough to buy one ;)
[19:01:39] <anonimasu> we have a big radial drill that we use to drill then ream..
[19:02:02] <dmess> i can get a steal of a deal on a toshiba qh200 horizontal bmill
[19:02:20] <anonimasu> I cant ship it to sweden anyway :/
[19:02:43] <dmess> its in Japan now it can ship ANY where
[19:02:48] <anonimasu> lol
[19:03:15] <anonimasu> I want one but we dont have enough need to own one ;)
[19:03:20] <anonimasu> that's the problem :p
[19:03:25] <dmess> brand new 585000 canadian dollars
[19:04:04] <dmess> was 1 million in 2001 and now has a 5000 rpn spindle instead of 1600
[19:04:19] <dmess> rpm
[19:04:35] <anonimasu> -_- that's 580000 too much :p
[19:05:06] <anonimasu> dmess: it looks like I have the wrong tooling for the type of cutting I like to do
[19:05:46] <anonimasu> and that's why my surfaces dont end up nice and shiny unless I take deep cuts..
[19:06:40] <dmess> http://www.toshibamachine.ca/lineup.shtml
[19:07:07] <dmess> tooling is the key
[19:07:23] <dmess> deep cuts is GOOD
[19:07:38] <anonimasu> haha, not when I want to turn stuff on my little toy lathe :p
[19:07:53] <anonimasu> or want to sneak up on a critical dia
[19:08:08] <dmess> never sneak on dia's.. cut them
[19:08:40] <anonimasu> hehe, here's what im thinking http://www.rulezman.com/workshop/images/ws/toolholders/vbmt/tholder%20vb-6.JPG
[19:09:17] <anonimasu> http://www.rulezman.com/workshop/ws/news07.htm
[19:09:17] <dmess> by the time you are within tool nose radius the too should be sized and ok to take TNR as a final DOC and the surfaces will alwasys be shiny
[19:09:48] <dmess> nothing wrong with that
[19:09:48] <anonimasu> well, on my tiny lathe I cant take thoose cuts(the work one does it without the motor sounding too loaded)
[19:10:03] <anonimasu> my little lathe goes \ with that kindof cuts..
[19:10:26] <dmess> .015" is too much of a cut??
[19:10:54] <anonimasu> hm.. tool nose radius of my inserts are 0.6mm
[19:11:13] <dmess> ok and is that too much??
[19:11:21] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:11:30] <anonimasu> I need to take a bit deeper then 0.6mm to get it shiny
[19:11:35] <anonimasu> about 1mm per cut..
[19:11:48] <dmess> wow.. it is a toy lathe eh... not my baby hardinge at all
[19:12:07] <anonimasu> I think the spindle bearings are getting worn
[19:13:10] <dmess> ahh... my spindle didnt move my .0001" indicator when i checked it after dropping it into the basement
[19:13:36] <anonimasu> :)
[19:14:04] <anonimasu> did you see that tooling?
[19:14:29] <anonimasu> inserts
[19:14:33] <dmess> yes..
[19:14:42] <dmess> is that what your using
[19:14:56] <anonimasu> no
[19:15:07] <anonimasu> im using some other inserts..
[19:15:11] <anonimasu> that's what im thinking of buying
[19:15:49] <dmess> on low power machines you want to get as positive a rake as your material will allow...
[19:16:08] <dmess> what materials do you play in??
[19:16:15] <anonimasu> all kindof stuff..
[19:16:23] <anonimasu> mostly iron with a bit of carbon
[19:16:27] <anonimasu> we call it c-rod
[19:17:19] <dmess> well there is NO 1 grade does it all option.. but with 3-4 grades and a few different styles its doable
[19:17:36] <anonimasu> err "comp axle"
[19:18:20] <dmess> pardon??
[19:19:30] <anonimasu> that's the common name over here for it..
[19:20:26] <dmess> we call it boiler plate
[19:20:59] <anonimasu> I think it's SS 2172
[19:21:40] <anonimasu> SS-EN 10 210-1 - S355J2H (1.0576)
[19:21:49] <anonimasu> well, garden variety of stuff..
[19:22:02] <anonimasu> I'd like tooling that lets me do nice finished with small cuts
[19:22:06] <anonimasu> finishes..
[19:22:23] <dmess> ss is stainless .. thats NOT BP
[19:22:55] <dmess> then get a smaller CR for your finisher
[19:23:30] <dmess> its the rubbing under low loads that marrs the finish
[19:24:04] <anonimasu> cr?
[19:24:15] <anonimasu> tip radius you mean?
[19:24:22] <toastatwork> cold rolled
[19:24:24] <toastatwork> ?
[19:24:28] <toastatwork> mebbe
[19:24:34] <anonimasu> ah
[19:24:52] <dmess> corner rad.. tip rad..same thing
[19:24:59] <anonimasu> yep
[19:28:24] <dmess> brb
[19:58:23] <glx51mm> hello !
[19:59:46] <glx51mm> anyone ??
[19:59:57] <archivist_ub> for tennis?
[20:00:10] <glx51mm> :P
[20:00:11] <toastatwork> i am too out of shape to play tennis
[20:00:14] <tom1> hello
[20:00:27] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub is too old
[20:00:45] <tom1> both are good reasons to get up and play ;)
[20:01:10] <glx51mm> i'm facing some kind of problem with emc so is tis the right place for getting some directions ?
[20:01:24] <tom1> glx51mm: yes, just ask, someone may have some help for you
[20:01:25] <toastatwork> if this is the wrong place i don't want to be right
[20:02:24] <dmess> oh.. you mean isnt the porn room ??
[20:02:42] <glx51mm> i'm trying to install emc2 on hardy, installation finishes up successfully, i reboot but there is no cnc manu after logging in...
[20:03:06] <tom1> hey dmess, when you speak french, you make perfect sense and DONT use LOTS of CAPS
[20:03:24] <tom1> glx51mm: try booting the live cd if you have it
[20:03:55] <dmess> and your point... it is 1/2 of my 1st language after all
[20:04:11] <tom1> dmess: c'est un groupe pour le devlopment d'un CAM ( logicielle pour fabrice un program CNC) very nice, c'est bonne ( not my 2nd lang )
[20:04:38] <SWPadnos> glx51mm, if the install finishes successfully, then there really should be a CNC menu, under Applications
[20:04:44] <dmess> i never learned to write it...
[20:05:15] <SWPadnos> EMC may not run, because you do need to do a little more work to make the RTAI kernel boot by default (or you need to manually select it at boot time)
[20:05:29] <tom1> glx51mm: ?? after the install the menu doesnt have a CAD item?
[20:05:32] <glx51mm> nope, there really isn't any, very strange actually
[20:05:41] <dmess> Tom1 ( i wasnt sure about fabrice and it still dont look right)
[20:05:51] <glx51mm> after the install there is no cnc menu at all
[20:05:59] <tom1> glx51mm: is this a stock install or soemthing you built?
[20:06:04] <glx51mm> it's not that the app doesn't start
[20:06:35] <glx51mm> latest stock hardy with studio theme... that's all
[20:06:52] <SWPadnos> ubuntu studio, or "a studio theme"?
[20:06:57] <glx51mm> hmmmm btw i run the kernel with acpi off
[20:07:11] <glx51mm> just the studio theme on stock hardy
[20:07:18] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:07:28] <tom1> oops i meant a CNC item, and its custom... getting stuff into the menu is done by hand AFIK
[20:07:47] <SWPadnos> what does `dpkg -l emc2` tell you?
[20:07:55] <glx51mm> also tried running emc from terminal, no luck again....
[20:08:12] <SWPadnos> (you seem pretty comfortable with Linux, just holler if you don't understand anything :) )
[20:08:39] <glx51mm> it gives me no packages...
[20:08:48] <SWPadnos> ok, then it isn't installed :)
[20:09:10] <glx51mm> u r very right on that but how can that be.... strange....
[20:09:12] <dmess> thk you come again..
[20:09:29] <SWPadnos> did you download the .deb and install it manually, or did you add the emc2 repository and install with apt/synaptic?
[20:09:42] <dmess> thats a do-over...
[20:09:46] <glx51mm> got the emc2-install.sh
[20:09:53] <glx51mm> run it in terminal
[20:09:58] <glx51mm> ran
[20:10:20] <SWPadnos> hmm. what does `grep emc2 /etc/apt/sources.list` show?
[20:10:41] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: but if you have emc-install.sh then you are installing from source?
[20:10:47] <SWPadnos> nope
[20:10:50] <glx51mm> deb http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy hardy base emc2.2
[20:10:50] <glx51mm> deb-src http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy hardy base emc2.2
[20:11:00] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:11:14] <SWPadnos> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install emc2
[20:11:57] <glx51mm> i think i see the problem now
[20:12:05] <SWPadnos> ?
[20:12:19] <glx51mm> Hash Sum mismatch
[20:12:37] <SWPadnos> tom1, the menu item is added with the package - no hand motion needed
[20:12:46] <tom1> thx
[20:13:13] <SWPadnos> glx51mm, ah, ok. the package had an error in it earlier today. It looks like the package was replaced but the sums weren't
[20:13:18] <SWPadnos> try again later :)
[20:13:32] <glx51mm> all right then !
[20:13:43] <glx51mm> thx to everyone
[20:13:44] <SWPadnos> just to be sure, are you on Ubuntu64?
[20:13:50] <glx51mm> nope, 32
[20:13:52] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:14:10] <SWPadnos> ok, well I bet that's still the problem, but we'll see
[20:14:42] <glx51mm> i'll have another go later on as u said and i'll let u know
[20:15:18] <glx51mm> btw guys, anyone know of a entry level router for cheap ?
[20:15:35] <SWPadnos> netgear ;)
[20:15:48] <glx51mm> cnc router actually
[20:15:50] <glx51mm> :P:P:P
[20:15:54] <SWPadnos> oooohhhhhhh :)
[20:16:09] <tom1> oh, does glock make anything near 51 mm? ( big ass bore damn )
[20:16:10] <SWPadnos> I don't know of any that are both good and inexpensive
[20:16:33] <SWPadnos> 51mm is closer to a light armored vehicle gun
[20:16:33] <glx51mm> have u seen that micro one on lumenlab ?
[20:16:46] <SWPadnos> tanks are only 105-120mm
[20:17:03] <tom1> yah 2" slugs aint 4 peeple
[20:17:30] <tom1> it was the glx51mm that sent me there
[20:17:53] <SWPadnos> glx is the openGL extension, silly! :)
[20:18:34] <glx51mm> is none of these actually, sorry to dissapoint u
[20:18:36] <glx51mm> :P
[20:18:56] <SWPadnos> Goose Leaves eXcrement 51mm long. news at 11
[20:19:11] <tom1> that must be it
[20:19:22] <SWPadnos> glx51mm, plastic machines make me nervous
[20:19:26] <glx51mm> nah....
[20:19:28] <SWPadnos> at least it has some metal parts
[20:20:05] <glx51mm> so u don't really think is a nice beginner setup...
[20:20:07] <glx51mm> :(
[20:20:24] <SWPadnos> well, I'm not really qualified to decide for you
[20:20:41] <SWPadnos> but I'd bet that twice that price could get you soemthing that can really cut stuff
[20:20:41] <alex_joni> you should get some qualification then
[20:21:41] <tom1> thx for reminding me about lumenlabs and the diy fresnel projectors ( heads up dro ;)
[20:22:03] <glx51mm> truth is that i have access to a heidenhein (i hope i spell correctly) mill setup, don't remember the mill brand but i was hoping for some "home fun"
[20:22:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:22:46] <SWPadnos> buy lots of metal stock and build one on the one at work ;)
[20:24:02] <glx51mm> that one belongs to a friend of mine but it's constantly busy, i made some plans on 3ds, very basic shapes but seemed it could work but it's still unfinished, couple of years after
[20:24:25] <anonimasu> well, if you have access to a mill you should be albe to get something nice togther :)
[20:24:29] <glx51mm> that's why i thought to go for a cheap ready one
[20:24:51] <glx51mm> my biggest problem is that i can't get parts easily here
[20:25:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm. gr - where's that?
[20:25:18] <glx51mm> lead screws and linear bearings are out of reach for local shops
[20:25:23] <glx51mm> that's Greece
[20:25:23] <SWPadnos> oh, greece
[20:25:25] <SWPadnos> cool
[20:25:28] <SWPadnos> err, warm
[20:25:33] <glx51mm> :P:P:P
[20:26:32] <glx51mm> even if i could find those guys would rip my wallet off
[20:26:43] <alex_joni> glx51mm: can you check again for that error?
[20:26:44] <tom1> what do you want your machine to do? what do you want it to make?
[20:26:48] <SWPadnos> ebay, though shipping could be a problem
[20:27:08] <glx51mm> yeap, give me a sec to run it once again before answering u
[20:27:18] <alex_joni> glx51mm: thanks
[20:27:48] <glx51mm> seems to work now, downloading... :)
[20:27:53] <SWPadnos> is an update needed first?
[20:27:56] <SWPadnos> I guess not :)
[20:28:17] <glx51mm> nope, nothing mentioned an update....
[20:28:26] <glx51mm> still downloading.....
[20:28:27] <alex_joni> glx51mm: cool
[20:28:33] <alex_joni> it'll be a long while :)
[20:28:34] <glx51mm> very !!!
[20:28:36] <SWPadnos> I was thinking apt-get update might be needed, but it looks like it isn't
[20:28:40] <glx51mm> no problem
[20:29:09] <glx51mm> so, i mainly want to make parts for my 1/5 scale
[20:29:45] <glx51mm> i know that little machine won't be able to handle aluminum alloys but...
[20:29:49] <archivist_ub> 1/5 scale steel or wood or.....
[20:30:02] <glx51mm> i mean 1/5 scale rc car
[20:31:14] <tom1> parts like gears (have to fit) or parts like body (not precision)
[20:31:39] <glx51mm> arms and such stuff, not gears for sure....
[20:31:42] <Paragon_> Hello All.... I have just designed a compressor and have generated tool paths but what do you think would be the best work holding method for cutting the following on my 3 axis mill. BTW the base is part is 1mm http://srg.hobby-site.com:8080/public/compressor.jpg
[20:32:40] <toastatwork> jeeeesus christ, 1mm?
[20:32:47] <glx51mm> as u said, parts that don't require much precision, bit of sanding in the end and it's good to go :P
[20:33:08] <toastatwork> Paragon_: i'd hold that in plastic vice jaws.
[20:33:10] <SWPadnos> so the wall thickness around the bore is around 2mm?
[20:33:23] <SWPadnos> maybe 1.5
[20:33:56] <cradek> you will have to cut it out of something much thicker to support it while machining, and in a second operation up-side-down, supported by the bore I assume, very gently face the bottom down to the 1mm
[20:34:07] <Paragon_> About 2mm around the bore ... I going to use delrin round stock also....
[20:34:46] <cradek> 1mm of delrin? that won't hold up to anything will it?
[20:35:06] <tom1> glx51mm: mechanical links... maybe you could look into small mills made from castings. I dont know resources in Greece. but in USA the range is near 2000$US for a reasonably stiff machine with a 100mm work cube ( not cnc yet )
[20:35:20] <archivist_ub> bolt a 3 jaw to the base machine end, change to slitting saw cut off, mount on bore clean rear
[20:35:34] <cradek> the other obvious thing to do is cut the wings in the mill and then stick it in a lathe to bore and part from the bar
[20:35:52] <dmess> FREE tip... working plastic... put it in the freezer the nite before.. set ALL machines up and cut while material is still cold
[20:35:59] <archivist_ub> or add 4th axis :)
[20:36:07] <glx51mm> thx tom1, i've actually looked a bit into this but i can't find anything around that price
[20:36:39] <anonimasu> tom1: what do you think casting one would cost?
[20:36:50] <anonimasu> tom1: I've been pondering it for making a micro sized machine
[20:37:19] <tom1> anonimasu: i have some nice castings here , i'll email them to you ;) (agie ab's)
[20:37:22] <glx51mm> tom1: i can surelly find on ebay and such but shipping.... btw, finished downloading, let me reboot, be back in a few
[20:37:36] <anonimasu> tom1: lol the issue is getting them cast
[20:37:37] <dmess> i'd bore the id from a chuck of tube .. then air chuck the i/d and do the o/d
[20:37:45] <archivist_ub> other method make part with bore and all outer finished and mount on arbour and then do pump blades
[20:37:47] <tom1> anonimasu: fenn is the casting guru. its not $ its time & experience
[20:37:55] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:38:10] <Paragon_> Good sugesttions ... I was reading about jewlers who use a type of wax or adhessive and stick the part while cutting.
[20:38:11] <anonimasu> I'd try to get someone to sneak it into a casting plant for me;)
[20:38:12] <fenn> casting is easy as long as you dont burn your foot
[20:38:32] <tom1> signed limpy
[20:38:40] <fenn> just make your part out of blue styrofoam, bury it in dry sand, dump in the metal
[20:38:56] <dmess> casting is fun too... when they are your parts
[20:39:00] <anonimasu> hehe sounds easy :)
[20:39:18] <tom1> the blue stuff used in housing?
[20:39:22] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:39:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu knows that much
[20:39:31] <tom1> wah!
[20:39:37] <fenn> it has a nice fine grain (bubbles)
[20:39:50] <dmess> make a styro model properly drafted and see if someone will pour it for ya..
[20:40:00] <fenn> some people try to use the regular white beads, you get beaded surface
[20:40:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:40:15] <fenn> dmess: styro doesn't need draft
[20:40:25] <fenn> the pattern evaporates
[20:40:38] <dmess> true.. i guess
[20:40:39] <Paragon_> What is the item to be cast?
[20:40:52] <tom1> how big a 'pot' is practical
[20:40:54] <archivist_ub> Paragon_, I would do it with a stock on a collet in the rotary table on the mill
[20:40:58] <glx51mm> everything seems to be working fine, many thanks guys !!!!!!!!!!!
[20:40:59] <anonimasu> oh, I were just speculating about a DIY mill..
[20:41:16] <anonimasu> or micro lathe..
[20:41:19] <dmess> i need brackets to attatch steppers to my hardinge
[20:41:26] <archivist_ub> make
[20:42:02] <fenn> anonimasu: i have a nice book series for you... :)
[20:42:05] <tom1> glx51mm: congrats!
[20:42:11] <anonimasu> that you could make really easily at a meeting like fest or something like that.
[20:42:33] <anonimasu> fenn: lol, I were thinking cast a small base slap it onto a big mill and face, and scrape scrape scrape
[20:43:02] <fenn> http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html
[20:43:04] <anonimasu> tiny and stiff enough to actually cut metal
[20:43:19] <Paragon_> I built a manual mill from an article in MEM it used a cheap wood working vertical router and a cheap cross table. Modifications where quite straight forward.
[20:43:34] <fenn> hmm cost only $50 then why did i end up spending $hundreds
[20:44:13] <anonimasu> :)
[20:44:36] <archivist_ub> fenn hey my mill is mainly scrap!
[20:45:07] <glx51mm> tom1: was glad to see the menu but the prog gives me an error just when it is about to load... i think i'll have to digg some more
[20:45:12] <dmess> i have a REAL headstock just no bed...LOL 1 guy has a 6 axis like mine.. i'll find it
[20:45:27] <tom1> how pig a melting pot is practical? ( must be a limit to the size part that can be cast )
[20:45:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:45:40] <anonimasu> tom1: depends on how much you can heat it ;)
[20:45:45] <tom1> glx51mm: post the specific error, there's some pretty clever guys here
[20:46:02] <fenn> tom1: depends how strong you are, what you feel comfortable picking up with one arm
[20:46:17] <Paragon_> Tell a lie I meant morticer not router
[20:46:23] <fenn> i wouldn't do more than 2 quarts
[20:46:24] <glx51mm> post it here ? it's a quite big file !
[20:46:41] <tom1> anonimasu: right... so whats 'practical' ( & fenn remember fishing that spindle out of the mazak :)
[20:46:52] <tom1> glx51mm: just the error
[20:47:17] <cradek> glx51mm: pastebin.ca
[20:47:25] <anonimasu> tom1: practical?, I'd say a machine big enough to cut something out of 2" stock
[20:47:32] <dmess> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7zJ8xE0V_g
[20:47:37] <anonimasu> and maybe 250mm of working area..
[20:47:44] <tom1> "uh fenn can you give me a hand here" :)
[20:48:05] <anonimasu> and like 200 with a headstock..
[20:48:11] <tom1> anonimasu: i was asking practical size of melting pot
[20:48:15] <anonimasu> oh.. :p
[20:48:22] <fenn> unless you're going for super duper precision you might also consider using concrete
[20:48:56] <tom1> good thought... fenn post that picture of your lathe bed
[20:49:04] <anonimasu> uh.. yeah that thread on cnczone has gone on for 6 years..
[20:49:09] <dmess> welded concrete with glass and carbon fiber
[20:49:11] <anonimasu> they still havent got machines in concrete working..
[20:49:18] <anonimasu> :p
[20:49:21] <glx51mm> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[20:49:21] <glx51mm> HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed
[20:49:21] <glx51mm> halcmd: hal_init() failed: -9
[20:49:21] <glx51mm> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[20:49:21] <glx51mm> Unloading hal components
[20:49:22] <glx51mm> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[20:49:24] <glx51mm> HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed
[20:49:26] <glx51mm> halcmd: hal_init() failed: -9
[20:49:28] <glx51mm> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[20:49:30] <glx51mm> ERROR: Module hal_lib does not exist in /proc/modules
[20:49:32] <glx51mm> ERROR: Module rtapi does not exist in /proc/modules
[20:49:33] <Paragon_> Here it is ... http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-AW12BM-Bench-Morticer-33259.htm Not sure if this was the table but is similiar http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=376146&name=table&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0
[20:49:34] <glx51mm> ERROR: Module rtai_math does not exist in /proc/modules
[20:49:36] <glx51mm> ERROR: Module rtai_sem does not exist in /proc/modules
[20:49:38] <glx51mm> ERROR: Module rtai_fifos does not exist in /proc/modules
[20:49:40] <glx51mm> /usr/bin/emc_module_helper: Invalid usage with args: remove rtai_ksched
[20:49:42] <glx51mm> sorry for that...
[20:49:49] <SWPadnos> you need to select the realtime kernel when you boot
[20:49:50] <fenn> tom1/anonimasu http://fennetic.net/machines/lathe_foot_modifications
[20:50:05] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:50:16] <glx51mm> i think i need some more explaining here...
[20:50:17] <anonimasu> nice work
[20:50:28] <fenn> usually there's some sheet metal form that remains part of the structure, since steel is more rigid than concrete
[20:50:38] <dmess> i beg to differ... the vdf boeringer's have/ had it.. as well as the tompsons
[20:50:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:51:00] <tom1> glx51mm: did you catch SWPadnos comment about selecting the rt kernel at boot ( a few millisconds at boot time theres an option allowed )
[20:51:23] <glx51mm> i saw it but didn't really get it.... :(
[20:51:25] <anonimasu> fenn: I'd like cheap micromachines avaiable to lots of people :p, given that they'll put the effort to scrape the surfaces ;)
[20:51:43] <SWPadnos> or you can set it as the default kernel. there are many results from a google search for "ubuntu select boot kernel"
[20:51:51] <fenn> anonimasu: you could use drawer slides i suppose
[20:51:56] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[20:52:03] <fenn> not that lazy?
[20:52:09] <fenn> build the shaper first
[20:52:14] <anonimasu> fenn: I could just machine one out of solid stock.
[20:52:24] <fenn> then it will scrape all the dovetail ways for you
[20:52:49] <anonimasu> fenn: though that's kind of besides the point :p
[20:53:56] <glx51mm> oh, i got what u mean but i think i'm already in this one, maybe it does have to do with that i have these options for booting "acpi=off noapic"
[20:54:24] <anonimasu> fenn: I think scraping ta 250mm bed of a machine that will cut metal is better then screwing plywood togther ;)
[20:54:53] <anonimasu> nothing bad about plywood though it works.
[20:54:54] <glx51mm> i have to set these options for my mobo to work properly :( lots of people have this problem with asus mobos
[20:55:19] <fenn> plywood didn't have anything to do with precision surfaces in that lathe
[20:55:24] <SWPadnos> those options are probably fine. it just looks like you didn't reboot into the realtime kernel
[20:55:29] <anonimasu> no, but drawer slides?
[20:55:34] <SWPadnos> you can check it with uname -a
[20:55:36] <glx51mm> all right then, brb ;)
[20:55:43] <fenn> eh, well they're cheap linear ball bearing ways
[20:55:49] <SWPadnos> if you don't get something that says rtai in the name, you're on the stock kernel
[20:56:18] <glx51mm> u r very right once more, let me boot and see how it goes
[20:56:31] <fenn> anonimasu, and low profile, which can be good in a small machine
[20:56:33] <SWPadnos> woohoo - my lucky day! :)
[20:56:41] <glx51mm> :0
[20:56:43] <glx51mm> :)
[20:57:04] <anonimasu> fenn: how stiff are they
[20:57:31] <anonimasu> :p
[20:57:57] <archivist_ub> stiff is not the right word for draw slides
[20:58:06] <tom1> re drawer slides, this is a hair up from drawer slides http://www.lm76.com/defender.htm
[20:58:29] <anonimasu> yep
[20:58:36] <anonimasu> I know about thoose :)
[21:00:17] <anonimasu> fenn: how easy is casting once you have a pattern?
[21:00:41] <anonimasu> fenn: and how good dimensional tolerance can you get?
[21:00:59] <tom1> i just got a slide from hiwin, very impressed, its a ball screw, nut and tractor bearing package KK series 6005, http://www.hiwin.com/html/ls/kk.html slighltly custom at $1100.
[21:01:09] <glx51mm> ok, there are only the normal and recovery boot "modes" in my selection list, and the memtest so i'll have to google a bit
[21:01:45] <archivist_ub> glx51mm, have you missed the install the realtime kernel part
[21:02:01] <glx51mm> oooops....
[21:02:15] <SWPadnos> that should be a dependency of emc2
[21:02:31] <SWPadnos> it should have been installed by the emc2 install
[21:02:57] <glx51mm> it seems that for some reason it didn't
[21:03:15] <fenn> anonimasu: here's a step by step http://buildyouridea.com/foundry/lost_foam_howto/lost_foam_howto.html (i dont use the pressure head thing, i just cut the bottom out of a steel soup can and use that as the funnel)
[21:03:54] <fenn> and generally within ~1mm or so, i'm not sure about shrinkage in lost foam, seems like it doesn't really shrink at all
[21:04:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:04:48] <fenn> ok maybe within 3mm over a 100mm dimension
[21:05:04] <anonimasu> not too bad
[21:05:27] <fenn> there are lots of things that can go wrong though
[21:06:14] <fenn> like if you pack the sand around the pattern instead of just shaking it in
[21:06:18] <glx51mm> i'm installing now
[21:06:22] <fenn> the force will distort the styrofoam
[21:07:01] <fenn> or if you have different cross sectional area throughout the part, it will cool at different rates
[21:07:16] <anonimasu> hm.. that's a pain
[21:07:48] <dmess> dont TRY AND CAST 1mm x 100mm tube...
[21:08:14] <anonimasu> lol
[21:08:48] <dmess> get the nearest extruded tupe and turn it
[21:09:22] <anonimasu> dmess: not everyone have your resources
[21:09:51] <anonimasu> or even locality to do stuff like that
[21:09:59] <dmess> send me a decent drawing and i can see what i can do..
[21:10:27] <anonimasu> dmess: my issue with everything is location..
[21:10:50] <anonimasu> I cant ship 1000kg from south of sweden without spending 500eur on the shipping..
[21:11:03] <dmess> i just tell the boys to book on tooling for the reair & overhaul dept
[21:11:39] <anonimasu> that's about how stuff are here..
[21:11:59] <anonimasu> there are some places that use cast stock, but they seem to own their own foundries only doing series for themselves..
[21:12:15] <dmess> but the NITE shift cant hepl??
[21:12:55] <dmess> you have to get a "friend"
[21:12:56] <anonimasu> oh, I didnt check too much, as im just toying with ideas :)
[21:13:02] <anonimasu> yeah, that's the problem
[21:13:32] <dmess> find the nearest bar.... at shift change..
[21:13:42] <anonimasu> that requires me to go 100km
[21:13:51] <dmess> hang out.. make a friend
[21:14:00] <anonimasu> haha :)
[21:14:08] <anonimasu> or well, the only place I know if like 300km
[21:14:18] <dmess> meet the chunky babes that work there
[21:14:19] <anonimasu> or maybe 350.. :p
[21:14:21] <anonimasu> haha
[21:14:45] <alex_joni> anonimasu: hopefully not going north..
[21:14:57] <tom1> euro/dollar. i made 9600$ on a custom machine, by the time the invoice hit spain i had 9200$ while i was on the phone to the bank to get the swift # i lost another 12.... this is really another era
[21:15:26] <dmess> im heading 6 hrs north next weekend... HOME at last
[21:15:46] <tom1> there be dragons
[21:15:54] <alex_joni> anonimasu: btw, one of the guys I worked from sweden is from lullea (sp?)
[21:15:54] <anonimasu> alex_joni: no, west I think closet to norway
[21:16:01] <anonimasu> lulea
[21:16:20] <alex_joni> yeah.. one l and a funny circle on the a
[21:16:28] <anonimasu> :)
[21:16:30] <alex_joni> å
[21:16:48] <alex_joni> that was pretty much around your area.. right?
[21:16:53] <anonimasu> å
[21:16:57] <anonimasu> yeah 100km away :)
[21:17:24] <alex_joni> umea?
[21:17:32] <anonimasu> no.. umea is 300km away
[21:17:39] <alex_joni> hmm.. wrong direction :)
[21:17:39] <anonimasu> alvsbyn
[21:17:59] <tom1> sounds welsh
[21:18:00] <alex_joni> bless you
[21:18:14] <glx51mm> i think i've spotted one more slight problem, i'm on kernel 19, rtai from what i've seen from packages is available for 16...
[21:18:16] <dmess> DOH
[21:18:32] <anonimasu> lol
[21:18:35] <alex_joni> glx51mm: yup, you'll get the 16-rtai package
[21:18:51] <alex_joni> glx51mm: need to make sure you boot that one when you want to use emc2
[21:19:02] <anonimasu> it is as badly located as it sounds ;)
[21:19:05] <alex_joni> Vidsel?
[21:19:11] <anonimasu> nope.. alvsbyn
[21:19:24] <anonimasu> vidsel is just a short bit away
[21:19:31] <anonimasu> 20 minute drive
[21:19:33] <alex_joni> ah.. ok
[21:19:47] <glx51mm> that one is installed but no option appears when booting... it might have with the menu.lst, if i remember correct i told it not to update, i guess that was wrong
[21:19:47] <alex_joni> so alvsbyn's the major town in the readion
[21:19:51] <tom1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Älvsbyn_Municipality
[21:19:55] <alex_joni> region even.. wtf is wrong with me
[21:20:08] <anonimasu> municipality is right
[21:20:17] <anonimasu> luleå is the major one I think
[21:20:29] <anonimasu> then piteå then boden/alvsbyn
[21:20:30] <anonimasu> perhaps
[21:20:56] <alex_joni> heh, 5000 people
[21:21:02] <alex_joni> bet you know everybody around there
[21:21:12] <alex_joni> although...
[21:21:18] <anonimasu> no
[21:21:19] <alex_joni> Density
[21:21:19] <alex_joni> • Total
[21:21:20] <alex_joni> 5 inhabitants/km²
[21:21:22] <anonimasu> :p
[21:21:30] <alex_joni> not very promising
[21:22:12] <alex_joni> we are: 2,379/km²
[21:22:25] <anonimasu> less then here :)
[21:22:26] <anonimasu> wow
[21:22:37] <alex_joni> that's actually 2 thousand 379
[21:22:45] <anonimasu> haha
[21:22:46] <alex_joni> :P
[21:22:55] <alex_joni> metro pop. 350k
[21:23:25] <alex_joni> hahaha.. I didn't know this:
[21:23:34] <alex_joni> In 1910, the town had 72,555 inhabitants: 31,644 (43.6%) Germans, 28,552 (39.3%) Hungarians (most probably including the Hungarian speaking Jews) , 7,566 (10.4%) Romanians and 3,482 (4.8%) Serbs.
[21:28:06] <archivist_ub> bleh made me lookup where I am http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadlincote Im a quarter mile from the ski slope pic in the middle#
[21:31:23] <alex_joni> bet you didn't know that Tarzan was born in Timisoara :)
[21:32:27] <archivist_ub> hmm must finish this pycam install
[21:32:32] <alex_joni> archivist_ub: Ay up me duck
[21:33:15] <archivist_ub> hear it less often now than 30 years ago
[21:33:42] <alex_joni> Ah
[21:33:46] <archivist_ub> but swad dialect/accent is still there
[21:34:07] <alex_joni> sounds nice
[21:34:08] <archivist_ub> locals just say swad
[21:34:37] <archivist_ub> pronounced swod
[21:36:06] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timisoara
[21:36:16] <alex_joni> I think our city name says it all
[21:37:10] <alex_joni> "Although the Bega passes through Timisoara, the city received its name from the Timiş river because at the time of the setting of the name, the Bega and Timiş river's paths were very much mixed up." (meaning, they screwed up)
[21:38:27] <archivist_ub> :)
[21:39:04] <archivist_ub> ihate vagu install instructions like (just copy Togl2.0 into Python25/tcl)
[21:39:12] <archivist_ub> vague
[21:39:34] <archivist_ub> the dir, the contents...
[21:39:39] <alex_joni> Timişoara also became the first city in Europe to have electric public lighting on the 12th of November 188 (four years after New York City)
[21:39:49] <alex_joni> 1884
[21:40:53] <archivist_ub> one of the local towns generators got moved to the sewage pumping station and survives and is restored and running
[21:42:13] <archivist_ub> http://www.archivist.plus.com/website/tour/dynamo.html
[21:44:55] <alex_joni> cool
[21:48:16] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub checks dates to if Im engine driving tomorrow yes! but here http://www.middleton-leawood.org.uk/leawood/whatson2008.html
[21:48:41] <tom1> archivist_ub: thats a working museum.. so the spares are patterns for casting new parts, very nice
[21:49:25] <fenn> hmm. bloomington has some nice big holes in the ground
[21:49:31] <archivist_ub> patterns were made for the restoration and some were left behind when it closed
[21:51:21] <tom1> my old man talked about 'sink holes' around St. Louis. they'd tie rope around anvils & lower em into the water, eventually the rope would make the anvil float ( not so urban legends )
[21:53:59] <glx51mm> i did after all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:54:41] <glx51mm> i'm not on real time now as it seems that the net interface is not operational but emc ran as a charm
[21:55:00] <glx51mm> thanx guys for once more
[21:56:36] <archivist_ub> I have networking on my emc box should be possible
[21:57:30] <tom1> glx51mm: best of luck, but 'not on realtime' and 'ran as a charm' sound conflicting
[21:58:28] <archivist_emc> this box is charmed
[21:58:41] <glx51mm> i'm on normal now as net was down and i wanted to let u know that emc ran fine, i'll try troubleshooting why this happened
[21:59:16] <tom1> great, good goin!
[21:59:34] <archivist_ub> my emc box only runs the realtime kernel
[21:59:34] <jepler> glx51mm: first thing to do is try installing the package linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-16-rtai -- this makes certain wifi cards work after installing the rt kernel
[21:59:40] <glx51mm> anyway emc will be running on another pc which has parallel port, this one doesn't, just wanted to see it
[21:59:54] <jepler> bbl
[22:01:22] <glx51mm> bad thing is that pc is quite old so i proly have to install some lighter version such as xubuntu, i don't know yet how to install emc there but i'm sure i'll manage it somehow
[22:01:56] <archivist_ub> glx51mm, just use the livecd
[22:02:42] <glx51mm> still no luck on that old machine even with live cd
[22:03:20] <glx51mm> i mean it doesn't even start hardy, might have to try with version 6
[22:07:58] <archivist_ub> emc box here is on 6 and its an old athlon 800 meg
[22:08:27] <glx51mm> i'm talking about a celeron 566
[22:08:31] <glx51mm> :P:P
[22:08:44] <archivist_ub> only problem was grub loader due to bios not having large disk support
[22:08:46] <glx51mm> but yes, i should give it a try with 6
[22:09:15] <archivist_ub> needed to format 1st partition as a small one
[22:09:38] <glx51mm> that's an interesting fact to know
[22:10:20] <archivist_ub> its formatted as an 8 gig drive iirc
[22:10:37] <archivist_ub> drive/partition
[22:10:52] <fenn> how big is a "large disk"?
[22:11:00] <archivist_ub> 30g
[22:11:19] <fenn> i mean what's the max the bios will recognize
[22:11:23] <archivist_ub> and its an 80 iirc smallest I could get
[22:11:48] <tom1> if the live cd didnt work, maybe memory is small or video is not easily compatible
[22:12:21] <alex_joni> http://builders.reprap.org/2008/08/larger-scale-positioning-system.html
[22:12:57] <tom1> i had several cd readers that I couldnt install from ( but ancient 4 cd IBM disk changer and a 4x unit )
[22:13:00] <glx51mm> yes, it could be any of those but it's a laptop so i can't get my hands on that, maybe refresh my soldering skills :P:P:P
[22:13:36] <alex_joni> glx51mm: after installing xubuntu, the emc2 install should be the same
[22:13:45] <tom1> alex_joni: reprap hektor
[22:13:49] <archivist_ub> alex_joni, the "pen" needs damping!
[22:13:49] <alex_joni> the only difference is that you won't have a menu for launching it I think
[22:14:08] <alex_joni> archivist_ub: yeah, I know.. found it nice they mentioned my "string thingie" :D
[22:14:12] <glx51mm> no big deal, thx alex
[22:15:47] <tom1> hmm big adobe pooping hektor builds gaudi-esque cathedral
[22:21:52] <glx51mm> anyone into rc hobbies ?
[22:22:04] <tom1> too expensive ;)
[22:22:24] <dmess> i crash my brother in-law's
[22:22:39] <glx51mm> tom1: it depends...
[22:23:27] <dmess> and its usually HIS fault.. for tackling me or someting bcz im doing better than him
[22:23:36] <glx51mm> :P:P:P
[22:23:56] <glx51mm> is that electric nitro or gas ?
[22:23:58] <tom1> one day late in the 80s i saw a guy hover an rc heli upside down behind tower hobbies. way cool thing to do, way cool machine too
[22:25:08] <glx51mm> helis are really cool but yes expensive as well, and they don't really like crashes
[22:25:17] <glx51mm> :P
[22:25:30] <dmess> and hard to fly
[22:26:28] <dmess> i worked a friends SIM for a few weeks and still couldn't hover it 1st try
[22:27:15] <dmess> the helo i mean.. no crashes involved
[22:27:34] <glx51mm> i don't even wanna try, could probaly cost me at least some blades, rotors, gears....
[22:28:05] <archivist_ub> fit trainers to landing gear
[22:28:06] <glx51mm> i was building a plane but due to lack of time i had to quit it
[22:28:14] <dmess> his 1st set came with the gear.... i may still get 1
[22:28:32] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:28:39] <glx51mm> good night mate
[22:28:56] <dmess> bonne nuit alex
[22:29:41] <glx51mm> btw, the most fun i have with micro cars, zip zaps and clones... cheapest and really the best
[22:30:20] <glx51mm> nitros and stuff have the thrill but those tiny things are awesome
[22:31:44] <dmess> for the same $$ i can put 1 of my sons on a nice 4-stroke.. and off we go
[22:32:11] <glx51mm> true
[22:33:45] <dmess> snow for next weekend up home... heee haa thanksgiving is ON
[22:33:45] <glx51mm> so, should i guess that most people around here are professional machinists?
[22:34:02] <dmess> no
[22:34:05] <archivist_ub> not all
[22:34:32] <dmess> i am.. but thats not the point
[22:35:06] <glx51mm> i think it's a nice job to have
[22:35:21] <toastatwork> it is, i'm certainly getting paid to chat on irc right now
[22:35:29] <glx51mm> for me is just a hobby on its very early stages
[22:35:38] <archivist_ub> being stuck on a capstan is not nice
[22:36:19] <toastatwork> that only happens to me on a blue moon
[22:36:37] <archivist_ub> we have one in the basement here
[22:36:47] <glx51mm> for sure that wouldn't be much nice
[22:36:58] <archivist_ub> not been used for a year or two
[22:37:24] <toastatwork> sometimes it's a good thing though
[22:38:48] <toastatwork> often the alternative is something like "deburr these by hand"
[22:38:48] <toastatwork> no thnx
[22:45:56] <glx51mm> i should get going
[22:46:20] <glx51mm> thank you guys for your help
[22:49:06] <fenn> tom1: does this drawing make visual sense? kinda hard with no depth perception: http://fennetic.net/machines/hexegrity
[22:58:03] <archivist_ub> doesnt look stable to me
[22:59:16] <tom1> are thge springs tension or compression?
[22:59:20] <archivist_ub> whats fixed and where are any axis
[23:00:16] <tom1> orange towers are fixed straight lines are cables.
[23:00:30] <tom1> fixed . straight
[23:00:58] <fenn> tension springs
[23:01:23] <fenn> though i guess it could be either
[23:02:13] <tom1> i think the springs and off centered attach points confuse me. i think that its a 3D alex joni 'thingy' (sorry alex)
[23:02:46] <tom1> i built climbable tensegrities ( fun)
[23:02:48] <fenn> yeah if you take two tripods and attach them to a rigid beam you will get something similar
[23:03:15] <tom1> so the dual tripod doesnt have the springs, why springs?
[23:03:17] <fenn> but no rotation about C axis, and it's overconstrained = bad
[23:03:22] <archivist_ub> get some wire and springs, does it sit in mid air as expected
[23:03:31] <tom1> ah, rotation of center spool
[23:03:37] <fenn> gosh archivist_ub you expect me to actually do something?
[23:03:44] <archivist_ub> yes!!!
[23:03:54] <fenn> * fenn yawns.. hmmmeh ok
[23:03:58] <tom1> archivist_ub: just put sticks inside a bloon ;)
[23:04:03] <tom1> balloon
[23:05:30] <tom1> ok the rotation needs the 'off-center' anchor points
[23:06:07] <SWPadnos> hmmm. you can't control lift independently of rotation, I think
[23:06:08] <tom1> but the spring, couldnt you use another 3 cables?(or 6)
[23:06:36] <SWPadnos> to raise the spool, you'd have to pull on the bottom 3 wires, and loosen the top 3 wores
[23:06:38] <SWPadnos> wires
[23:06:53] <SWPadnos> but, that can result in rotation or lift, or some combination
[23:06:58] <tom1> yes, like a crane with 4 attaches can tilt a big concrete plane, 3x4 sets could rotate the central thingambob
[23:07:27] <tom1> lotsa coordinated motion
[23:08:38] <archivist_ub> I think replace springs with another powered tension wire
[23:08:42] <tom1> fenn try redraw with a triangular prism vertical in center and 3 towers, each tower with 4 cables to a rectangular face corners
[23:09:11] <SWPadnos> the trouble with cables is that you can only control them in one direction - tension
[23:09:32] <tom1> you can turn (some) so rotate , & translate
[23:09:42] <archivist_ub> SWPadnos, hence my comment above
[23:09:46] <tom1> yes, always in tension ( tensigrity )
[23:09:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:10:54] <tom1> i can only think about < 120 degrees rotation, i can only imagine about 60
[23:11:14] <archivist_ub> return rotation relies on springs so loses control at full extension
[23:11:15] <tom1> and that only when centered
[23:11:47] <tom1> return rotation would be under power
[23:11:47] <SWPadnos> rotation is OK, because the upper and lower cable sets pull in opposite directions
[23:11:51] <fenn> tom1: triangular prism doesn't work, that's what i've been trying to explain
[23:12:02] <tom1> ?
[23:12:12] <fenn> you have to have the weird attachment points
[23:12:32] <fenn> otherwise the 6 cables can apply varying amounts of preload (machine self destructs)
[23:12:58] <archivist_ub> servo can detect load
[23:13:05] <fenn> archivist_ub where did you hide my spring collection
[23:13:17] <archivist_ub> under the carpet
[23:13:39] <fenn> carpet! good thing we dont have any of that around here
[23:17:13] <tom1> looks to me like triangular prism (and others) can work. justmo. i know it'd be weird to pragmaticly prove and beyond me to mathematicly prove it. i just can 'see' 4 terminus on 3 sides working together.
[23:18:36] <tom1> if there were just 6 wires to the tri-prsm, (top and bot of each edge) you could xlate. then if 1 tower had 1 extra wire to the far edge, it'd turn.
[23:25:06] <dmess> it;ll work...
[23:25:16] <tom1> hmm, tower goes to near edge top & bot and left far edge ctr and right far edge ctr ? (do that for 3 towers, turn is around ctr of prism ) ?
[23:25:36] <tom1> 'grab 'em by the ears ! :)
[23:26:35] <dmess> but feedin' it to them is different
[23:35:33] <tom1> i think it can be turned by central girdle http://imagebin.org/27945
[23:35:57] <tom1> and tilted and translated off center
[23:36:27] <tom1> all tension elements except corner 'towers' and central movable prism
[23:39:19] <SWPadnos> there's a little bit of a "crossing cables" problem, but if you ignore that it could work :)
[23:39:31] <tom1> only turn a little ;)
[23:39:42] <SWPadnos> only tilt a little - no turning needed
[23:40:18] <tom1> tilt? i only imagined a bit , sure less than 90 deg, yes
[23:40:46] <tom1> well, lets say it can wiggle
[23:41:20] <SWPadnos> no. from vertical (in more or less the perspective you show in the drawing), if you tilt left a little, the right "girdle" cable goes under the left. If you tilt right, the right cable needs to be above the left
[23:41:22] <tom1> it could trace say less than a hemisphere surface normal to it
[23:41:29] <SWPadnos> it can only tilt one way
[23:41:56] <tom1> you right, cables cross
[23:42:45] <tom1> mayeb a dirrenent start point than translation cables
[23:42:59] <fenn> turning is not such a big issue.. it's the overconstraint that's the problem.. although i've found a way aroudn that (put a spring in the prism)
[23:44:05] <jmkasunich> are you guys re-inventing the cable hexapod?
[23:44:11] <fenn> yes
[23:44:14] <tom1> mine is certainly got loads of constriants
[23:44:20] <jmkasunich> why?
[23:44:23] <fenn> the original design sucks
[23:44:28] <jmkasunich> wny?
[23:44:37] <fenn> "dont push on ropes"
[23:44:44] <tom1> push up a rope
[23:44:54] <jmkasunich> you want to be able to apply forces greater than gravity?
[23:44:58] <fenn> yep
[23:45:48] <jmkasunich> if you don't mind not constraining rotation, use one tripod with its "point" down, another with its point up, and a long strut between the points
[23:45:56] <jmkasunich> the strut is your tool
[23:46:04] <jmkasunich> 6 wires, done
[23:46:28] <jmkasunich> if you want to also control rotation around the strut axis you need one or two more wires
[23:47:24] <anonimasu> fenn: what can you use as makeshift crucible when casting?
[23:47:34] <anonimasu> if you dont have any high temp cement..
[23:47:35] <anonimasu> :p
[23:48:09] <fenn> 1/4" steel
[23:48:23] <fenn> stainless flakes less i hear
[23:48:37] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:48:48] <anonimasu> stainless dosent flake at all if it's the right grade
[23:48:49] <anonimasu> :)
[23:49:08] <archivist_ub> we use a ladle with a blowlamp for lead melting and casting here
[23:49:29] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder about a cast iron pot
[23:49:29] <anonimasu> :p
[23:49:44] <anonimasu> for melting aluminium.. that is..
[23:49:57] <archivist_ub> careful with cast iron it cracks!
[23:50:16] <anonimasu> that might be less fun when casting something..
[23:50:23] <tom1> how can you turn about the strut axis? without winding up the point up/down cables?ohh maybe its like a spindle, fixed ends but center turns, use a windlass like a boyscout fire starter to get 360+ degree rotation
[23:50:33] <anonimasu> hm, I've got heaps of aluminium, I guess I could try casting someting someday.
[23:50:39] <tom1> for crucibles, i heard carbon works
[23:50:50] <anonimasu> carbon?
[23:51:04] <anonimasu> oh yeah
[23:51:06] <anonimasu> but they are $$$$
[23:51:09] <anonimasu> and im in sweden
[23:51:10] <SWPadnos> if you can keep it from igniting, it has a very high melting point :)
[23:51:20] <tom1> graphite... some edm supply houses throw away the 'bark' ( 1/2 to 1" slabs )
[23:51:30] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:51:39] <anonimasu> there's a edm place here..
[23:51:44] <anonimasu> but the stuff they do is top secret..
[23:51:54] <tom1> thats what they think
[23:51:57] <jmkasunich> anonimasu: steel pipe with a cap, use it once and dispose of it before it burns thru?
[23:52:08] <archivist_ub> I have a graphite lined crucible at home but its tiny
[23:52:15] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: yep
[23:52:25] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: or a heavier pipe that wont burn through as fast..
[23:52:40] <anonimasu> they keep a guard dog loose at night
[23:53:09] <toastydeath> and gun turrets a la Portal
[23:53:15] <toastydeath> "where did you go?"
[23:53:29] <anonimasu> lol
[23:53:32] <anonimasu> almost
[23:53:42] <fenn> my little wire model works
[23:54:02] <anonimasu> a big german shepherd :p
[23:54:42] <fenn> pushing along the Z axis really makes it want to rotate around C
[23:55:05] <fenn> much more rigid in XYAB
[23:55:32] <fenn> Z should be more rigid with a longer spool
[23:56:20] <tom1> did fuller ever use length ( leverage) in his designs? ( like did he say short stuff was problematic?)
[23:58:13] <fenn> there was a similar problem with high frequency geodesic domes, there wasn't enough thickness to the shell so it would sorta buckle.. there were a couple solutions to that